The Athletic Hockey Show - Sean Avery signs with an ECHL team, Martin St. Louis' impact on Canadiens, hottest teams and players out of the All-Star break

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

To start things off, Ian and Sean share their thoughts on Sean Gentille and Craig Custance's rendition of the Canadian national anthem from the Tuesday show. Does the conversation turn into discussing the worst performances of national anthems ever? Possibly. Then, the guys share their skepticism on Sean Avery saying he's planning on a return to the NHL this fall after signing a contract in the ECHL. Has anyone returned to the NHL after a 5+ year absence? Also, Martin St. Louis is giving a boost to the Canadiens, will he be behind the bench next season, and if it's possible for him to get a vote for the Jack Adams this season. Next, with the news that Filip Forsberg is on the market, what message does that send to Nashville Predators fans?Then, in "Granger Things", Jesse Granger stops by to discuss the hottest teams and players following the All-Star break, and if it's possible for Cole Caufield to work his way back into the Calder discussion. In the mailbag, the pair hit on a couple HOF-related questions, and to wrap up, another look back in "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question/comment for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic, get your first six months for only $1/month! theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. It is your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's the M&M crew with you. It's Mendez and McHen with you for the next hour or so. Coming up on this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, we're going to hit on this Sean Avery's story. It looks like he's trying to restart his pro hockey career. We'll hit on that. Talk about some other comebacks after retirements of Montreal.

Canadians are all of a sudden red hot. We'll talk about Marty St. Louis job he's done behind the bench. Forzburg. Reportedly on the market, what does this mean for Nashville and their fans? As the Predators are certainly in the playoff hunt, what would it mean if they traded away one of their key pieces? Jesse Granger will drop by, as always, for Granger things, talking about some hot players in teams since the All-Star break. We've got a voicemail where we think we get to the bottom of that whole backcatcher controversy this week in hockey history. All of that coming up in the next hour. But we're going to open up

this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show by Sean, I'm going to ask you to rate the Gentilian Custin's rendition of O Canada from the Tuesday show. Can I be totally honest? I didn't make it very far into that.

I applaud them for the effort and the enthusiasm. I didn't get all the way through on that. Like it was, I was basically doing the equivalent of the crowd. during the Roseanne Bar anthem at the baseball game. Like it was, uh,

don't, don't quit your day job, guys, but I do, it was nice to see them on the right side of, uh, uh, women's hockey history for once.

Oh man. You know what? I, I totally forgot about, there was a time where if you Googled, uh, you know, anthem,

whatever, like, you know, now if you, if you, if you, if you Google anthem protest, Colin Kaepernick's name comes up.

Uh, there was a time where Roseanne bar. It was that like a San Diego Padres game? I want to say Padres, yeah. And she tried to do like a off key, like I think it was a bit. I don't think she was legitimately tried, but they didn't like it. And I feel like there was like a crotch grab involved at the crowd. And not really, and spit, yeah, too.

So, yeah, that was. And back in simpler times where that was the most controversial thing that you could say about, about Roseanne. So it's, I would put, I would put Gentilly and Custin's above that. I would put them probably around maybe slightly above the, the Canucks guy doing a face plant when he skates over the red carpet. Yeah. But maybe a little bit below the guy who looked like Cato Caelan who got the Canadian Anthem wrong at the CFL game. Like he at least still had some, some key to him.

So where does Carl Lewis slot in? Boy, you know what? That's, yeah, that one might be the worst. of all because he was trying, right? He was really trying. He thought he could sing and he and he couldn't. And didn't he try to go back? He was like, I'm going to, he starts talking to the crowd like in the middle of the guy. I'm going to get your back. I'm going to get you back. Just and then he he didn't. Yeah, you know what? That one might be the worst of all. That one was definitely, um, that. Gentile's got that one covered. I think he's good. Okay. The question I have for you. And I

know you didn't get very far. I did unfortunately expose myself to the entire anthem because I wanted to see how it played itself out. Give these guys an A-plus for leaning into it, accepting the bat, having some fun with it. But it sure felt like, and it was more Custance than Gentilly.

I'm like, have you ever heard the Canadian anthem before? Why was there like hesitation? Like, have you never been to a hockey game? Exactly. Like, you're hockey writers. You have to listen. Like, there probably is not a profession in the United States that exposes you to the Canadian National Anthem more than NHL hockey writer. And yet these two guys, I guess maybe later rivals to the press box, maybe they're

hitting the popcorn bar before they get in there. But that was, that was weak. I don't know. If they're coming to the draft in Montreal, we can maybe give them a, maybe another try. Maybe we just see if we can find, you know, an evening, a stage and get them up. there that gives them a few months to work on it. I think maybe there's got to be around too. Yeah. And you know, I, and they didn't try the French anthem, the bilingual version.

And that's fine. I think they probably would have offended some people and that probably would have not gone well. It's not sure it went well as it was, but sure. Yeah. You know, but it got me thinking because, you know, you could see the hesitation. Like both of them, it didn't seem like they knew the song. And it reminds me, okay, I'm going to peel back the curtains here a little bit. And so I spent a good chunk of my elementary school years living in the United States. Like grades 1 through 5 lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

You know what? Here's the peel back the curtain even more because our dads actually in a small world, our dads work for the same company. That's right. You want to talk about a weird thing. It was a company called Bechtel, which is like a huge engineering. The original M&M apparently is what you're calling it now, which I think we need to. discuss off air, but yeah, back in the day.

Long story short, our dad's worked for the same company, and my dad used to get transferred to different places. So we grew up all over the place, including five years in the United States, grade one through five, okay? So grade six, we moved back to Canada. And I go back in for my first day of grade six, and we were living just in, in Oakville, so just outside of Toronto. And I go into the class and the teacher has found out that this kid,

is coming in from the United States and she tapes the Canadian anthem the lyrics of the Canadian anthem on my desk because you know every day like I grew up doing the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States flag every day and so it came to Canada fingers crossed behind your back Yeah that's right yeah I'm really a Canadian

And so I come in the first day and she's like You know we sing the anthem I know you don't know the words here you go And I said I watch hot I watch hockey every night because we lived in Michigan. We had the CBC feed. I said, I watch hockey every single Saturday night. I'm good. Thanks. And I never deeded it. So why do these grown-ass men, if I could do it in grade six, these guys who covered the NHL? What are they doing here? Wasn't that a TV show at some point? Are you smarter than a fifth grader?

Yes. They might be. We can't prove. But are you smarter than a sixth grader? No, apparently not. at least not the sixth grade Ian Mendez a little chip on his shoulder talking back to the teacher over the anthem that's I don't know

I don't know I just feel like look I've we've said this before I believe in second chances I feel like both of those guys and maybe it got away from them a bit they might want it back let's arrange

for an opportunity for them to have another go at it and just with a little more prep time and I mean It's, it's, it was tough on them because they, they didn't have a lot of time to get ready because we've only known the Canadian women were going to win gold for like four straight years. That was, that's only been common knowledge for, you know, so they didn't have a lot of time. You know, I just, I feel like I, you know, Sean especially feels like to me the sort of guy who would want to make this right. And I say we'd give them the chance.

And one other, just to put a bow on that sort of where I think you'll appreciate this. So when I move back to Canada, it was the fall of 1987, okay? So I move, this is right when Canada Cup, Mario Lemieux, like, and all that, okay, I lived in, having lived in Michigan, I had a Detroit Tigers jacket. And you know, as a Toronto Blue Jays fan, that was not a good, that was not a good year to have. The end of the 1987 season. So I go into grade six, hey, guys, what's going on with my Detroit Tigers jacket? And then it turns into like one of the most epic showdowns to end a baseball season of all time with Bill. Matt Locke and Tony Fernandez and Frank Tanana and all that stuff.

And I'm the guy wearing the Tigers jacket. And it was not a good start for me. No. That wouldn't have been. Yeah. That's your sass in the teacher and walking around wearing any colors. That's, that's not going to. Yeah, that's not going to do it.

It was like there was no temptation to get on the Lions bandwagon at all back then. No. You know what? At that point, I was indoctrinated into the Dallas Cowboys. So there was no, no, no Detroit, Detroit Lions. All right. We got a whole bunch of things to hit on here in the hockey world. And I, you know, sometimes you're looking at stories on Twitter and you're like, this is, this is an onion story.

It's the Beaverton for those of us in Canada. It's like it's got to be one of those spoof stories. And I see Sean Avery is signed on with the Orlando Solar Bears, East Coast Hockey League team. I thought, come on. And then I read the story and he's like, he's planning to get in shape to get an NHL. invite next year. It's been more than a decade since Sean Avery. He's played the other show. So here's my thinking on this. This has got to be like he's just doing this for like a reality TV show where there's

going to be some product placement here, right? Well, it's it's a publicity stunt or Sean Avery really needs a job right now. It's got to be one of those two because no, I did there is a, there is nobody who's out there looking at their team going, you know what we need is a 40-something-year-old Sean Avery, who we can remind you in his last full season scored three goals as a 30-year-old, played a partial season as a 31-year-old, had three points, got sent to the minors.

Like nobody's like, I bet you he's gotten a lot better in the last 10 years as the game has gotten faster and more skilled. This is not going to happen. I mean, I guess unless Tom Wilson runs over another ranger and they lose their minds again, maybe that's the opening to get them back. But other than that, no, there's something else going on here. I'm not trying to be a cynic, but I'm not thinking that Sean Avery is going to be the comeback kid. No.

And for him, this would be his last season in the NHL was 2000. 11, 2012. So you're talking about a 10-year absence potentially. Again, I don't see any team, even if this guy goes to the solar bears and lights it up. There's no team in the lead that would say, you know, we need a Sean. Like, there isn't a team in the league. I can't imagine. And not even, you know, like, Sean Aver isn't going to sell tickets these days.

It's, you know, you kind of look at it. You go, I don't know, maybe the coyotes or whoever would say, let's sign them and get some people into the seats. I can't imagine anyone going, like, you know, I'm, I heard Sean Avery's coming to town. I'm going to buy a ticket and go and watch this guy do Sean Avery things. I don't know. It's, yeah, it's a weird one. I'm not, I'm not, you never say never, but yeah, he's never getting back to the NHL. No, again, this screams of a reality TV show, some product placement or marketing,

It's some stealth marketing campaign. He's going to show up with like the tattoo with some crypto company on his back of his neck or something. Yeah. Yeah. So let's just play this out for one second and say, okay,

he's trying to make a comeback after essentially a decade-long absence in the national hockey league. And I was thinking about this. And look, there have been some legitimate comebacks after guys went into the retirement. You think of Mario,

you think of Gila Fleur, heck even Gordy Howe, right? Gordy Howe kind of whatever. away for a couple years came back. All of those absences, Sean, were like three years, four years, you know, at the most. Has anybody to you, like, that you can think of, and I tried to think of this, has anybody ever come back to the NHL after taking five years off?

And they're gone from the league, and then they come back five years later. It's very rare, and you're right. The big comebacks we all think of are pretty short ones, including Gorda Howe, because I think a lot of people will go, wait a second. Wasn't it like eight years for him? And it was for the NHL. But he went to the WHA. That was the initial comeback.

And he spent a lot of years there. I'll give you two names, though. And I'll start with one who tried to come back, didn't get back to regular season NHL, but came close-ish. And that's Theo Fleury. Remember, Theo Fleury finished his career with the Blackhawks in 2003. had been, it was, you know, played pretty deep.

He was 34 years old that season. Obviously, it had his off-ice issues. It was a smaller guy, physical guy was probably pretty beat up. He tried to come back in, I want to say, 2009 with the flames. And played in training camp, like in exhibition games. And in fact, I think he scored a goal in Calgary. like in the exhibition schedule. And I don't remember, I feel like it was either a shootout winner or maybe it was an overtime or regular.

But like he had a goal and it was like a great moment because the crowd was able to really, you know, give him one last ovation. But he clearly wasn't NHL caliber at that point. And they did end up cutting him from camp. And that was the end of the comeback. But he gave it an effort. He gave it a shot. and got further than, you know, an ECHL tryout. So credit to him for that.

The other guy that actually did make it back to the NHL after an extended absence, Claude Lemieux. Right. San Jose. San Jose, right? With the San Jose Sharks, he finished his career. It actually, it's, the timeline is almost the same. 2003, he splits the season between the coyotes and the Dallas stars, which are two teams I have.

no recollection of Claudeau me playing for, but he does. He's 37 at that point, retires. Everybody goes, yeah, that's, you know, he's not really an effective player anymore. And then he tries a comeback in 2008 with the sharks. I believe maybe either that year or the year before had gone to Europe to play at a high-ish level, comes back, plays in minor leagues, and ends up getting called up. to the sharks and plays 18 games as a 43-year-old. It doesn't do anything.

He records one point in 18 games, but does get back to the NHL six years after his last NHL game at the age of 43. Maybe the closest comparison that Sean Avery might be aiming for and not completely dissimilar players. So maybe there's maybe that's the vibe Sean Avery's going for. You know, now I'm having, I'm having this recollection. And maybe you'll have to look up the shark. So you said that was the 0809 sharks, right?

Yeah, that's right. Was Jeremy Rowanick on that team with Claude Lemieux? And the reason why I say that is now I'm having this vague memory of being in the shark's dressing room. And Claude Lemieux and Jeremy Roanick were there. But now maybe I'm my, you know, sometimes like my memory, it all gets hazy. This is just a weird dream that. Yeah, you had a little, you went a little too spicy on the, yeah.

I'm looking at it right now and you know what? Both of those guys were on the 2008, 2009. At the same time? At the same time, I'm not sure because Ronick played, well, Ronick played 40 games. And, uh, how old was Roanick there? Roanick was, um, 39. So, man, that was a, what a weird team because that's, like, as we're talking, describing this, right?

Like, you're probably, if you're listening to this going, oh, it's probably like a bad team, right? Like the same thing the coyotes did. Coyotes were bad, but they would collect name. But the 2008-09 sharks had 117 points. They finished first that year. And yet they still managed to find room for Jeremy Roneck and Claude Lemieux. Yeah, that, I think that they were there the same time. Because all of a sudden, when you said Claude Lemieux, I was like, oh, yeah, sharks.

and then I remember, I feel like I was in the room and like, and Roanick was there. But again, maybe I'm off. They're probably are because I'm looking at it. And this actually surprised me. Claudeau me played a playoff game for that team. Did Roanick? And Roanick doesn't seem to have. But I'm going to look up, now I'm looking up his game log because it was the last year of his career as well.

And yeah, no, he played. Oh, he did. He played in the playoffs too. So there you go. Yeah. They played together, absolutely. Okay, so my mind. And that was the year or one of the years, sorry sharks fans, that they won the President's

trophy, 117 points, lost in the first round to the Anaheim Ducks in six games. So, yeah, the whole collect the team from NHL-95 didn't really work out for them. But yeah, they did. Jeremy Roanick played six games, had one assist in the playoffs. Claude the Mew, one game, no points in the playoffs. What a weird team that was. Yeah, you know what? The more I think about, like, sometimes I think about, like, what would be fun stories to read in the summertime or in the off season?

I feel like a deep dive on the 0809, like an oral history of the 0809, 70s, and sharks. That was a team. They also had a 39-year-old Rob Blake, who they brought in, who actually did play reasonably well and stuck around for another year. but they really did that. Sometimes you see teams do this where I always think it's like, remember when you had like a video game or a computer game where it had some sort of rosters and you always come in, you're like, oh, who's on the free agent wire?

I know that guy. I'm going to grab him. I'm going to grab it. Like to go and get Claude de Mew, Jeremy Roanick, and Rob Blake in one off season. And drop them in. And it worked until it didn't. Yeah, Jose. Yeah.

Unreal. Look, I want to ask you about Marty St. Louis. in Montreal. Because one of the things you said when they hired him a couple weeks ago was, ah, my fear would be, if you're a Habs fan, Marty St. Louis does just enough to kind of convince you that he should be the coach.

I'll tell you what, they're clicking on all cylinders. Cole Caulfield has got six goals in seven games. Nick Suzuki looked dynamite on Wednesday. They've won four in a row. Does it suddenly feel to you like it's a foregone conclusion that Marty St. Louis is going to be behind the bench for the half next season?

it's getting there. I already saw, I think it was Pierre tweeted something where he said, you know, it already feels like it's the interim tag. It's just going to be a question of what Marty St. Louis wants to do. It's sort of like you're sitting there going, man, it's been six, seven games. This is exactly what I was worried about. And not exactly because they are playing well. This isn't a team that's just fluking out.

We get an out shot 50 to 20, but they're fluking out. two-one wins or something. They do look different. They do look re-energized. There are, you know, some of the guys, Caulfield, Suzuki, Jeff Petrie looks like a player again. So he's, the short-term impact has, has been a good one. But yeah, this is exactly what I was concerned about was when he was hired was people said, what's the worst it could happen? They lose every game. They're already losing every game. And I said, no, the worst it could happen is they win enough games that instead of maybe looking around for the best coach available in the off season, they stick with a guy with no experience. And it doesn't work out. We don't know whether it would

or not. But yeah, it does feel like that's exactly what's playing out. But you know what? Good for mantra. I'm not here to rain on Haps fans parade. They've been waiting all season for anything to get excited about. And this is, they're, they finally got it over the last week. So that's a good story. So San Luis, four and three, the Habs have 30 games left. I'm going to pose this to you. And I always think about the year Randy Carlis got a vote for the Jack Adams, I think in the year of which he got fired by Toronto.

Remember that? 2015, I think Randy got a vote for Jack Adams. So here's my question for you. If Marty St. Louis now wins 20 of his next 30 games and ends up 24 and 13, as head coach of the Montreal Cananians in 37 games, does somebody give him a vote? I'm not saying it for first place for Jack Adams, but does he get a vote?

And again, it's the broadcasters, we should point out, that hand out the votes for coach of the year. Does Marty St. Louis, if he goes 24 and 13, get a vote for the Jack Adams. Yes, absolutely he does. I would be surprised if he doesn't get a few because that's the sort of,

I mean, it'll have been half a season, but it's half a season with a team that's been established as being awful. And if he can turn it around and turn them into not just a winning team, but a really strong winning team, then yeah, they're absolutely, there's going to be some voters who will put them on the ballot somewhere. I feel like the Jack Adams is a top three. I don't think they get the top five the way we do on the ones that we vote on.

But yeah, somebody will have them in the top three for sure. And it'll be a pretty cool story. I was really surprised when I saw, and it was Andy Strickland, a terrific reporter out of St. Louis that I believe had this first, but he says Philip Foresburg is on the market in Nashville. Foresburg, a pending unrestricted free agent, carries a $6 million

cap hit. And what's interesting about this, Sean, is that the predators are in the thick of a playoff race in the Western Conference. They had a great start to the season. They've kind of hit a little bit of a speed wobble here, maybe not as good as they looked a few weeks ago. But absolutely playing with a better than 600 winning percentage

are in the thick of a wild card race in the Western Conference. Just big the Panthers. Yeah, and 6-4 win over Florida, which obviously is a statement win. But if you're potentially dangling a guy like Philip Forsberg out there because he's a pending free agent, what does that say? Like, what's the message to your fan base if you're going to trade potentially a UFA of his stature? Having a great season, what, 25, 36 goals? What should Predators fans be thinking when they hear that?

that one of their best players is in play. It's tough, right? And it's tough, especially because can they make the playoffs? Yes. Can they go on a long run in the playoffs? I mean, we see teams do it. We saw Montreal do it last year. Dallas a couple of years ago,

although they were better than people thought. It happens sometimes. And we always say, make the playoffs, who knows, you've got to get in to find out. It's a tough call because it's, I don't think this is a cup contending team. In fact, if the playoffs started today, I think you could make a case that they would be 16 out of the 16 teams as far as who had a realistic chance of winning the Stanley Cup. When you've got a guy like Philip Forsberg, where you could get a lot back for him, I mean, he could really be arguably the biggest name available at the deadline.

You should be able to really reap a windfall there. And if you're not going to resign him, if the other option is letting him walk away for nothing, it makes a lot of sense to at least explore it, to at least say, you know what, I'll put his name out there and let's see what's out there and potentially make the top decision to move on from him. It's the sort of thing where it feels like when you're an outsider, when it's not your team, you look at it and you say, yes, of course they have to do. This is the tough decision that GMs are paid to make, is to understand, to be realistic about where you are at, to understand that your team might be a playoff team, but they're not a cup contender, and to use your assets in the best way that you can to turn yourself into a cup contender whenever that window opens up. And in this case, letting a guy walk away for nothing so that you can get swept by the avalanche in the first round with him on the roster doesn't make sense. you've got to move him, get the first round pick, get the top prospects, get whatever else it is. When it's not your team, that seems like a pretty obvious call.

But when it's your team and you've invested, suddenly it gets a lot dicier. And I still think the ideal situation here is for them to be able to get an extension done. Then the situation solves itself. If not, it's a tough call. I will put this out there, though. there is nothing that says that if you move this guy and you get multiple draft picks, maybe, you know, prospect or two in exchange, there's nothing that says you can't, in that deal,

ask for players that can help right now. It doesn't all have to be futures or that you can't flip some of those futures for something to help right now. So it's not necessarily a white flag where you have to, the only options are you stand pat or you give up and you sell for the, future, you can get some of that future and flip some of it for to help you in the present with guys who aren't on expiring deals or whatever have you. But it's a tough one. And it's especially tough for David Poyle, who has been doing this forever.

No Stanley Cup ring for David Poyle. It would be a real tough call for him to say, you know what? In one of what could be my last chances to get that ring, I don't think this team can do it. And I'm going to make a move. that's a real tough call for him to me. Yeah, he's been doing this since the 80s. Basically 40 years of being a general manager. Great teams in Washington couldn't get over the hump.

Some real good teams in Nashville, obviously got to the final in 2017, couldn't get over the hump. I agree with you. Winning as general manager in history. Yeah. But not when it matters most as far as getting the championship. Yeah, I don't know that I'd want to be in his shoes right now because you're right. I've said, in fact, I'm surprised.

to see Forsberg's on the block because I've said that when I looked at Nashville. I've said there's no way David Poil is going to do a rebuild here. Like he's going to push his chips in. And especially in a season like this where, you know, what did we all look at that team? And we went, well, they're not going to go anywhere because they've invested. They got two $8 million centers who don't play like top six centers. Well, now they are. You're getting those seasons at Duchenne and Johansson.

So maybe you don't get that next year. Maybe this is the year. It's all clicking into place. I would have said before the year there's no way. way David Poyle takes the long view when he's been doing this for 40 years. But that could be the right decision for the team. And credit to him if he's looking at what is best for this organization, even if it's not necessarily what's best for him personally because a lot of GMs in this league do not

look at things that way. As always, it's time for a little Granger things here on the Athletic Hockey Show Thursday edition brought to you by a bet MGM, the exclusive betting partner with us at the athletic, Jesse Granger, my man. Welcome back. How are we doing here? Pretty good. How are you guys? Hey, fantastic. Doing all right. Listen, before we chat a little bit about some trends

in the, heading into the, or out of the all-star break, I've got to ask you a question here, because Sean and I were talking about this, and I want to make this very clear. I'm not going to ask you to sing the Canadian anthem. Okay? Not going to ask you to sing sing the Canadian anthem. I just need to know if you were in a pinch, would you, like, would you know

how, like, to sing the Canadian anthem, lyrics, the tune of the song, all of that. Because Custins in particular, and a little bit Gentile, but certainly Custins, they seemed unsure. And we as Canadians thought that that was odd since they cover the NHL. Yeah. Could you guys sing the American anthem? Yeah.

100%. So through sports. That's it. Yeah, exactly. So I would say five years ago, there was zero chance I could sing the Canadian national anthem prior to me covering the Golden Knights, prior to me covering the NHL. Now I'm like 90% confident. I would say that there may be a couple lines.

Like I would guess right now that if I just tried to do it, there would be a couple lines that I would like be a little bit unsure of the words. But I could get 95% of it out with the tone with the lyrics and the like tune of the song. I think I'd be pretty good at it. Okay. Okay. That's that's a big call. But yeah. All because of hockey though.

Thank you to the Montreal Canadians for their playoff run last year for teaching Jesse. The anthem because we're talking Ian about. the CFL guy who screwed up the anthem. That was in Las Vegas. Yes. Yeah, during that one year where they had the CFL, so maybe they should have, it should have been Jesse. CFL ever goes back.

The quality of the singing, though, I'm not as confident about it. That's my great voice, though. So here's what's going to happen. We talked about it earlier. Craig and Sean, we're going to get them at the draft in Montreal to have another attempt at it. Maybe you can be the coach. Like, you can get them, like, you can huddle.

up with them beforehand and just make sure that they've got the lyrics and everything. Vegas has a bunch of Pacific Division Canadian teams. Yeah, half the division is Canadian. We get a lot of Canadian teams coming through Team Mobile Arena. We get O Canada quite a bit. Yeah. So, you know, the

story that Sean's talking about with the guy in Vegas back in the day who butchered the Canadian anthem, I don't know if you're familiar with this, but so the CFL had a brief window in the 90s where they expanded to the United States. So they had team in Vegas, they had a team in Shreveport, Louisiana, a whole bunch of different places,

okay? And the guy comes out to sing the anthem and he sings it in the tune of, oh, Christmas Tree, right? John? Yes, that was it. It was, oh, Canada, oh, Canada. And we're like, what? Yeah. So it was for, for anybody that's got the opportunity, just Google it. I'm sure it's available. CFL anthem, Las Vegas. May you someday have the conference. of an anthem singer who's like, I don't actually know the tune, but I'm pretty sure I can just wing it once I'm out there in front of thousands of people. Yeah. Yeah, he did a hell of a job.

That's incredible. All right. So I want to get you on to talk about some of the trends that we see in Jesse post-all-Star break. And look, we should point out there's been a wild discrepancy in the number of games being played. This was supposed to be the Olympic Paws. Look, the team I cover the Ottawa Senators, they've played 10 games since the All-Star break. teams like, I know, I think Vegas has only played three times, four times, whatever. Yeah, Vegas has been off.

Yeah, L.A., the Panthers, Tampa, there's a bunch of teams that haven't really played. So I understand that there is a wild, you know, kind of discrepancy in games played. But you are seeing some trends. And let's start with looking at some teams that have maybe been pretty good here in the last three weeks. Yeah, yeah. And I think these trends can help whether you're a better, whether you're just a casual viewer who likes looking at these type of stats or fantasy. I think there are some guys that are kind of appearing that maybe help people with their fantasy hockey team. But also, like you said, the team start off, obviously Calgary.

I think Calgary is the obvious one. That would be the team that if you just asked who's doing the best out of the All-Star break, 99% people are going to say the flames. They're 7 and 0, and they are just smoking teams. 33 to 10 is the combined score. They've been basically beating teams five to one on average. They are killing everyone. They killed the Golden Knights. The Golden Knights went up there and lost six to nothing to the flames.

team is so impressive. To jump a little ahead of myself, one of the players that's having one of the best start out of the All-Star break is Elias Lynn Holm. And he's got eight goals and seven games. And to me, what impresses me the most about the flames and I don't know about you guys, but I feel like they don't have an A plus player on that team, like a superstar, but they have like 12 B plus players. Like they just seems like they've got so many really good players. And every line that hops out on the ice when I watch Calgary, it's like, man, it's like, you don't have a break. There is no, all right, thank God, this line's out there now. We can kind of like catch our breath.

Maybe we can get some ozone time. They just swarm teams. Wait, you guys, wait, you guys don't think Johnny Guadro is like an A type player? Or maybe I'm underrating him. I don't know. He wasn't heading into this year. There was a time where you would have thought of him that way. And then he sort of took a step back.

And that was part of why a lot of us wrote the flames off. Their best players aren't their best players anymore. he has looked like it this year for sure. And like Manjiapani, if you, like he's been playing like an A player this season. But I just, I feel like they like, especially in the Pacific Division and like, I guess in the West, I look at it like from from a Golden Knights writer perspective. It's like, okay, you've got like Colorado. And they've got McKinnon and Ranting in Atlanta's Cog. And then Edmonton obviously has the star power.

And I just feel like the flames are the best team. Like they may not have the best like high end talent. But right now in the West, I think the flames are the best team. Darryl Sutter knows what he's doing, man. Right. Isn't that nuts, though? When you go back and you think about, you're like, there's no way Daryl Sutter and Johnny Gujarro are going to coexist.

Remember last year when Guadro played what it was his 500th game? And Sutter got asked like, what do you think about this? And he's like, well, I didn't like game 499. And it was like, man, this isn't going to be a good. And he's had an heart trophy caliber season this year under Daryl Sutter. Absolutely. And I mean, how often do we say, I know I say it all the time, right? whenever there's a coach position opens up.

And it's always the same names being recycled through. And you go, man, what an old boys club? Why don't we ever get some new blood, some new ideas, a new set of eyes? And they go, the Calgary goes and hires Daryl Sutter and you just go, there it is. There's the exact wrong approach in the modern NHL to bring back this relic from the, yeah, I guess not. I guess maybe Daryl Sutter knows a little bit more about this stuff than I do because we talked a little bit about coach of the year. Gerald Sutter's the coach of the year in my mind this year right now. Yeah, I think Gerard Gallant probably belongs up there too.

But, yeah, I mean, Sutter's done a phenomenal job. And then the other team that's played really well out of the All-Star break that I think maybe would surprise some people are the Columbus Blue Jackets. They're six and one. And the East, the East kind of felt like the playoffs were decided that the eight teams, like the gap between the eighth team and the ninth team. And that last wildcard spot was so massive. But Columbus is that like top team that's still out. of the race that's trying to fight back in. There's still nine points behind Boston for that last wildcard spot, but six and one.

And part of the reason I bring Columbus up is I'm looking at today's spreads and I was absolutely blown away. So I know Florida is just a freight train right now. Like the Fuller Panthers are playing really well. But Columbus is six and one since the All Star break. And they are plus 333. So you can get them at better than three to one odds against Florida tonight. And maybe even more enticing than that.

So you can bet the underdog on the puck line plus a goal and a half. But in this game, they're actually at bet MGM. They're offering plus two and a half goals for Columbus. And you can get Columbus plus two and a half goals at minus 115. So almost even money and they just can't lose by three. To me, a team that's playing as well as Columbus that's as desperate as Columbus, I said, they're playing this well. They're still nine points out of the wild card spot.

They need wins right now. I know Florida's good, but man, any hockey team plus two and a half at, at almost even money seems like a ridiculous price to me. Yeah, that seems really tempting because you don't have to live in fear of the empty net goal at the end of the game. Right. Which is what always kills you. And when you've got one and a half, boy, yeah, that's not bad at all. Yeah.

Okay. And the flames are playing well. The jackets are playing well. And like you said, Columbus might be a smart play tonight considering Florida played last night too. And that's a great tip. What about some individual players, Jesse, that maybe in the last. last three weeks or since whatever, the 7th of February, have kind of elevated their game and kind of stood out to you right now. Yeah, the hottest player out of the break is Patrick Linae for

those Columbus Blue Jackets. Man, he's got eight goals, six assists, 14 points in seven games, two points a game basically out of the break. And he is looking like the guy they hoped that they were going to get in. And I know he's a streaky shooter. And that's kind of how all these goal scores are. But him in particular, man, when a couple go in for him, you got to feed him the puck and just let him fire it because it seems like whatever comes off his stick. It doesn't matter where he is in the zone. It's going in. And then for the, and then to kind of look through that, I guess the Jets, the team that Patrick Lina used to play for, they've got three guys that are really rolling out of the break in Blake Wheeler, Mark Schifley, and Kyle Connor. And in fantasy terms, those guys are

all owned. Obviously, I don't think anybody's super surprised out of that, but they're just in a really good groove. They've each got like a point per game or more coming out of this break. And, A guy that I know Ian wanted to talk about, Cole Coffield is right up there amongst the the points leaders out of the All-Star break with six goals and four assists in his first six games. You guys wanted to know if he's kind of climbing back into that Calder Trophy race, and he's not. So if you think that he might, now is the time to bet Cole Cawfield for Calder Trophy because he is currently plus 10,000 at Bet MGM, which is the equivalent of 100 to 1 to win

the Calder trophy. He's the 19th. He has the 19th best odds to win the Calder. They currently have 18 players with better odds to win the Calder. Obviously, Trevor Zegris is still at the top, and he's a heavy, heavy favorite. He's plus 225, I think, so you're basically just doubling your money if you're betting on Trevor's. They're basically, they don't want you to bet on Trevor Zegra, so they gave you a ridiculous odds. But like Lucas Raymond, Moritz-Sider, Michael Bunting, Anton Lindell, kind of round out the top five. Do you guys think, Cofield? Like, obviously, he's been on fire lately. Do you think because he's a goal score and because those types, I mean, he attracts attention maybe more than some of those rookies. Do you, do you guys think he's a

legitimate contender to climb back into that? I don't, I think it would be, it would take an enormous second half and probably an injury or two to front runners for him to win the award. To get back onto some ballots, yes. To win the award, I think a lot of things have to click. But I'm getting 100 to 1. I mean, that maybe makes me wonder if I should, yeah, I just, you know, you throw down 10 bucks, you forget about it and maybe at the end of the year. Because here's the deal. If it, like any award that's voted on by the writers, we all, look, we spend a lot of time on our ballots. We work really hard on them, but we're still writers. And we love narratives. We love the storyline. And I think if Cole Coughfield,

lights it up. Like, I mean, let's say he's got 25 goals at the end of the season. And yeah, he's, you know, five or ten goals back at Trevis Vegas. He's, you know, however many points back. But people look at that and go, he did that in half a year with Martin Saint-Louis. Boy, you know, Dominic Douchard must have really ruined this guy. And, you know, really, is it the best rookie or over a full 80-game season? Or is it the best rookie by the end of the season? Because right now, and we talk ourselves into it, we know Montreal's a big market. We know they get lots of attention. Is it possible that enough people that recency bias kicks in?

You know, if a guy did it in the first half and had a lousy second half, forget it. But you flip it around, 100 to 1? You know, 100 to 1 starts to tempt me. Let's put it that way. For sure. Forget it, guys. Alex Nadelcovich is my vote. That's right.

I still want to see him show up on the Calder. As a Calder finalist two years in a row. confuse everybody. He's going to win the Calder trophy every season for the rest of his career. Yeah, every year. This is my award. Wayne Gretzky had the heart, but I've got the Bob Ganey had the Selky. I've got the Calder. Yeah, I love it. Hey, Jesse, listen, thanks for dropping by. Always appreciate the visits and the insight and a reminder, hey, put some money down on the

Club as Blue Jackets if you're listening to this before Thursday night, because Jesse says there's some good money. And congratulations to the Panthers on their 10-1 victory. Yeah. It'll be 4'0 at the end of the first period. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, man.

All right, terrific visit with Jesse Granger. And while we were having that conversation, Sean, our terrific producer, Danielle, has found the audio of Buddy singing O Canada at the CFL game in Vegas. So for the benefit of our listeners here, you don't have to go out searching for it. We're going to play you a little sample of it here.

Again, this is from a CFL game in the 90s. and their rendition of O Canada. From far and wide, oh Canada, we stand on God for thee. God keep our land, glorious and free. Stand on God for... All right, so there you go. Little sampling. Hold on. I got to sit back down.

Yeah, we did stand up. I moved my cap for the butchering of the Canadian astronaut anthem. That's the all-timer for me. I don't think you can ever top a butchering of an anthem with apologies to Carl Lewis and Roseanne Barr and anybody else. And like you said, this is the guy who looks like, and our younger listeners would be like, Who the hell is Cato Cail? I have no idea who I'm talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. If you're old enough to know who Cato Cailin is, this dude looks like Cato Cail. Okay. And this guy's name is Greg Bartholomew. No way. Yeah. That's not his real name.

Greg Bartholomew. That was his rendition of the anthem of O Canada. There you go. I just typed his name into Google and it auto fills O Canada. So, but he's got his own website. And his own Twitter feed. All right, let's go. We're going to get this guy.

It seems to me like we got a guest for next Thursday show. A guest anthem. Yeah, we bring on. Apparently he's a award-winning American composer of working conventional music. Wow. Okay. I think we need to bring this guy on. And do we follow on?

Not followed by anyone you're following. Well, we can fix that. I don't know. I think we bring them on for five minutes and be like, if we had to get you to sing the anthem, could you do it now? Yeah, could you do it now? Yeah, see if he can top Jesse's 95%. Yeah, that's...

Listen, hey, we're having some fun with the American-Canadian stuff here, and that leads us right into this voicemail. Because last week on the show, we were talking about if you had to play goalie in a game, it kind of get thrown in, or would you be a catcher in a baseball game or a goalie in a hockey game? And it jogged my memory of like, and again, this is when I moved back to Canada

and people were like, I'll be the backcatcher. I'm like, what is this backcatcher thing? And sure enough, we had some people right into the show. And you tried to correct them, but they were like, get out of here, Tigers fan. Yeah. Somebody tell Chet Lemon over there to zip it. Hey, Lance Parrish, suck it. Yeah.

So have a listen to this voicemail here. I'll Frank Tennano over there to sit out. See, now this show is just going to turn into random. Yeah, 45 minutes of us reading the 87 Tigers. I'll go next. Larry Vernden. No, okay. So have a listen here.

We got a voicemail that kind of tackles this exact topic of whether or not, this is a, you know, a Canadian term, an American term. And I apologize because I don't know. Like, we have an email here from Chris saying, I'm New England born and raised, played baseball growing up. I've never heard anybody say backcatcher in my entire life. And then we have this voicemail. Have a listen, which pretty much echoes the same thing.

Just listening right now is for your question about the backcatcher. Yes, it is very much a Canadian term. I'm from Michigan, the Detroit area. Spent a lot of time in Ontario growing up. Have two sisters that live in Ontario. And it is definitely a Canadian term. where it comes from, I'm not sure. I've asked some buddies and they say, oh, they're at the back by the cage.

Not sure. Hopefully that helps me. You guys talk to you later. All right. So there you go. Definitive proof. I think that the term... Definitive?

This guy has two people. He's a little wobbly there. He started off with a lot of confidence and then kind of trailed. I don't know. But let's add it to the pile of evidence to suggest that backcatchezer. sure might be a weird Canadian thing. Yeah, I think so. Okay, got a couple of other emails and tweets to handle a reminder.

If you want to leave us a voicemail like that guy did, you can do so by giving us a call to 845-4-5-4-5-8459. 4-45-8459 is the way to drop us that and 845 area code. You can also drop us an email to the Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. We got some tweets here. Let's tackle these. They're kind of similar. And we have a tweet that came in from a person that asked,

and it's from the hockey boomer, who says, is P.K. Suban a Hall of Famer? Was his peak good enough to get him over the hump? P.K. Suban, of course, winning a Norris trophy in 2013. So let's tackle that one, Sean. Yeah, I don't think P.K. Suban,

if I had to bet right now, I don't think P.K. Subbent's going to the Hall of Fame. Now, that said, if you want to make an argument for it, it could be done. And it starts with, as you mentioned, that Norris trophy. Here's a weird bit of trivia or weird fact. Do you know how many eligible Norris winners are not in the Hall of Fame? That are eligible. Yeah, guys that are eligible.

Obviously, guys that are still playing or only recently retired. So I honestly don't know the, okay, let me throw out a couple of guys that I don't know one Norris trophies that I don't think are in the Hall of Fame. Randy Carlisle being the first. Randy Carlisle is not the Hall of Fame. Yep. I have no idea if Rod Langway is in the Hall of Fame. He is. He is. He is. He is in the Hall of Fame with his back-to-back super weird Norris trophies.

Okay. So the only guy, because then I think it's ore, it's pot van, it's bork and coffee. and I think Larry Robinson won one. So the only guys I would think of off top of my head would be Randy Carlson is in now, right? Doug Wilson got in. I'll tell you the answer is Randy Carlyle is the only one. It was him and Doug Wilson were the only two. Holy smokes.

Just made it in. And that's it. Which is to say that historically winning a Norris trophy has been almost an automatic pass to the Hall of Fame. Now, the guys, as you say, the guys you look at. on the list of winners, and it's just all slam-dunk obvious Hall of Famers. So I don't know that that tells us a lot. But P.K. Suben, what is really going to come down to, assuming that there isn't some remarkable third act waiting for him where he, you know, he gets back to his elite status in the future,

it's going to come down to that whole, you know, what do you want from a Hall of Famer? Do you want the peak or do you want the guy who had the long productive solid career? Because Sue Ben doesn't seem like he's going to be the long productive career guy. But at its peak, he won a Norris trophy. It wasn't just some fluke year. Like he had other years where he was quite high in the voting. He played, he made Team Canada in best on best tournaments when that was the very best of the best. And he is a guy who, you know, I think,

Shea Weber probably gets into the Hall of Fame. And P.K.C. Suben is a guy who in his prime was traded straight up for Shea Weber in his prime. And a lot of people thought that deal was a big win for the Nashville Predators at the time, which just tells you that there was absolutely a time where P.K. Suben was viewed as one of the very best defensemen in the NHL. And so if you're looking for the peak, if you're looking for, you know, what were their best three, four years, P.K. Subbin maybe gets into your conversation. Again, if his career continues the way it's gone now where he's really, you know, not only not even a star anymore,

but not even necessarily a top four guy, I mean, he can still play in this league. But it's, he's, he's not a guy who anybody views as a difference maker anymore. If that's the way it finishes off, I think it's going to be a tough case. But you know what? At his peak, he definitely did have a case. And it doesn't hurt that he was also a great personality. You know, there are a lot of defensemen that you kind of think back to, what do you remember about this guy? And it's kind of hard to remember what it was like watching them play.

You always remember P.K. Suban, you know, he had some of the big overtime goals in Boston, grabbing the crest of the Montreal sweater to the fans and all of that. He was a memorable guy. And that might help him too. I think he winds up on the not quite enough scale, but it could be closer if somebody who is as persuasive as I am is in that room to make the case for him. You know, I think it's interesting that you bring up Randy Carlisle

is the only player who's Hall of Fame eligible that's not in the hall with a Norris trophy because I think he's going to get some company real soon. And I was just looking this up. So when Suban won the award in 2013, Sean, it kicked off a stretch where now we've had nine, different Norris winners in the last nine years. Suben, Duncan Keith, Eric Carlson, Drew Dowdy, Brett Burns, Brent Burns, Victor Headman, Mark Giordano, Romaniosi, Adam Fox.

We've never had nine years, nine different winners. Because before that, right, if you go out of expansion, it's ore, it's pot van, it's, you know, coffee and pork, and then you're kind of in the Lidsroom. Shellios gets a few and then Lidstrom takes over. Prongers in there. And there was these eras of. dominance that you, they're a Hall of Fame. You win the Norris trophy, you're a Hall of Famer. It's not even a question. This is going to be interesting. And, you know, Suban is

interesting. I want to know where you come down real quick on Eric Carlson, because he's got two Norris trophies. But unlike, let's say, Doughty or Keith, who also have multiple Norris trophies, those guys have a lot of postseason success that you can say, you know what, lock it in, they're going to Hall of Fame. Carlson doesn't have that. Does he make the Hall of Fame? I think Carlson has a better case, if only because he's got the two, I mean, I think at that point it would be, it would literally be unprecedented for somebody to not get in. And the other thing is, at his peak, there was a time where Eric Carlson, there were people that would make the case for him, not just as the best defenseman, but as the best player in the league. Like, there was, especially towards the end there in Ottawa when he was dragging that team, there was a time where a lot of people would say, this guy is the most dynamic player in the NHL.

Didn't last very long. But I think he's okay. And here's the other thing that is a difference between he and P.K. Subban. And P.K. Subbin, by the way, I just looked it up. Norris finalist three times had a win, but two other years he was a finalist. He was a one year wonder or anything like that is full of it. Because he, five years apart was Norris finalist three times in five years. But the difference between Carlson and Subban, even if both of them around their once they got into their 30s really saw their production fall off, Carlson, people associate that with injury. People look at him and they say he got banged up, he wasn't healthy. And for some reason, when somebody gets hurt and either their career ends early, like a Cam Neely, or it affects them like a Paul career or somewhere, they don't get the games played, they don't get those high numbers.

We tend to take that into account. We'll say, you know what, if somebody gets hurt, we don't hold that against them. Whereas a guy like P.K. Subam, where, yeah, he's been banged up a few times, but there isn't that injury that stands out. He just kind of hit the aging curve and dropped off. That doesn't seem to help a guy in the same way where you say, you know, if P.K. Suban's career ends in 2019 for some reason, he probably is a hall of favor because we look at it and say,

well, the guy wasn't able to continue. Whereas the fact that he does keep playing and becomes ordinary, for some reason, we view it differently. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, but I feel like Eric Carlson's going to be okay, and P.K. Subbaugh, probably not. You know, one other question we have in our mailbag here is from Patrick. And it's kind of along these same lines.

And Patrick wants to know how many future first ballot Hall of Famers are currently playing in the NHL? So these are the guys that you wouldn't, you wouldn't have these debates like we just had maybe over Subban and Carlson. It's a non-starter. It's like, you know what? It's Crosby. It's Ovechkin. Like how many other guys would fall into that category of no doubt. going into the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, it's, it's tough because, I mean, you say first ballot, we're not even talking, no doubt because there are, there have been guys that you might look at and say, no question, Hall of Famer, but they, for whatever reason, don't get in the first year. You never know, right? I mean, if we could say these guys are no doubters, but if we come up with five and they all retire the same year, then only four guys can get in, somebody won't be. I would say the only two that are absolute to me, sure thing, bet my house on it is, is Crosby and Ovechkin.

Barring some sort of scandal or what have you, I can't envision a scenario where those guys aren't automatic, unanimous, don't even need to discuss it. Joe Thornton would be very, very close to that and should be in the same category, but if he retires without having won a cop or whatever, who knows if the committee goes, you know, does something weird there, decides to make him wait a year.

I think Mark Andre Fleury is a sure thing. pretty close to a first ballot guy, Patrick Kane, I think would also be in that category and probably of Guinea Malcolon pretty close as well. And from there, you start getting in. Stamco's on the way. But if Stamco's retired today, yeah, I mean, he certainly there'd be a good case for. Patrice Bergeron's another guy that I think is getting pretty close to being a lock, but again, like I said, being a lock and being first ballot, not necessarily the same

thing. And then there are a bunch of guys who are on track for that. And I'm not even talking about the younger guys, the McDavid's and Matthews and those guys who are building the resumes. But, you know, a Jonathan Taves may very well be pretty close to being locked in. Other guys who are, as I say, building up that resume. And oh, I guess the other guy should mention as a virtual sure thing that I put next to Joel Thornton would be Zadano Char. Oh, yeah. A guy that, you know, just set the record games played by a defenseman. And, you know, again, impossible to imagine him not being a Hall of Famer, but, you know, if he's up against, you know, whoever is on the list, is it possible that they move him a year?

It's hard, it's hard for me to see it. But you never know. Crosby and Ovechkin are the only the only ones that I'd bet. my kids on, but there's more than that that are, I feel pretty comfortable saying our locks. Zadano, that would be the one year they're like, you know what, it's Mike Vernon's time.

Yeah. You just can have to wait. Yeah, it is. It's, this is, this is finally going to be the year that that we're getting Tim Kerr into the Hall of Fame. Yeah. Sorry, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Speaking of history and the Hall of Fame and that, let's wrap up the shows we always do with a little this week

in hockey history. And I want to take you back. We got a couple here. I want to take you back to February of 1972, February 22nd, 1972. The Boston Bruins, Sean, become the first team in NHL history to overcome a five-gold deficit within a game. They're down six-one to the California Golden Seals. They come back to win eight to six. And I got a very specific question here.

Oh, boy. Would you not like to know what the Boston Bruins were up to the night before? Because if you go back and look at the standings, look at the standings in 1972. The Bruins are a juggernaut. They are a Stanley Cup contender or Esposito, all these guys at the height of their powers. The Golden Seals, I think, win 20 games at here.

Yep. What the hell were they doing up 6'1 on the Boston Bruins? I have only one question. What were they doing the night before? Yeah. You know what? That's a good question. What were they doing the night before?

Or what were they planning to do that night that they realized, uh-oh, we're not going to be able to get out of here. We got to turn it on. That's a good question. Was the game in Boston or was it in California? Ooh, that's a good question. I could look that up. Because I don't, you know, it's not quite the Vegas flu, but I wonder if the.

But where did they, they played in Oakland, right? Yeah, they were the San Francisco, Oakland area. Yeah, see, so if they're in San Fran, it starts to line up, right? Yeah, potentially. I don't know, 1972 San Francisco was quite as, but then again, 1972 pro athlete, the bar was not as high as it is today. And Derek Sanderson was on that team, right? You can't even say what were they up to the night before.

What were they up to that afternoon might be a better question for 1972. I mean, that was, did the coach come in in the second intermission and be like, that's it. No more smoking on the bench. We got to get serious here. Yeah, come on, coach. All right. Yeah, that's a good question. I'd love to know the story behind that one.

Yeah, Sanderson put out that cigarette. Yeah. Okay. So I'm looking it up. And the game in February of, oh my gosh. Well, no, no, it's a road game. Oh my gosh. This is fantastic, okay?

So we get a little bit of context here, okay? They play the Golden Seals on the 23rd, but on the 22nd, they were in Vancouver. So if like, okay, so think about this. They probably had to take a commercial flight from Vancouver to Oakland on the day of the game. So you know what? Maybe they weren't,

there wasn't shenanoganizing. Maybe they were just, hey, it's, there's it happened on the plane. There's Esposito crammed into 22F, you know?

Yeah. I don't know. Again, the 1972 drink cart was potentially a bigger threat than it might have been back then. But yeah,

no, whatever it was, they snapped out of it in time. Yeah. Okay. One other, this week in hockey history, February 21st, 1999,

Ray Shepard becomes the first player in NHL history, scores his 20th goal that year or that day for the Carolina Hurricane. Sean becoming the first player in NHL history to score 20 goals for six different NHL teams. And first of all, I don't know if you have it up there. And if you do, then this becomes a moot question. Can you name the six teams that Ray Shepard scored his 20 goals for? No, absolutely not.

Carolina only because you said it, and I know he played with the Red Wings. Yeah. I feel like, is there a Florida Panthers connection there? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then that's it. That's all I got.

I feel like maybe he went from Detroit to Florida, but then I'm out. Okay. So Carolina, Florida, Detroit. He had a sneaky 27 goal season in just 50 games with San Jose. Wow. In the 90s. Wasn't the 2009 San Jose. No.

He probably tried to come back at the age of 48 with that team. He broke in with Buffalo and as a rookie scored 38 goals. Wow. Okay. Because that's interesting because people remember or maybe I'm projecting here, but I feel like I remember Ray Shepard as the fake 50 goal guy. Right. You know, where you're just like that was the moment that we're all like,

maybe scoring is too high. Maybe there's too much offense in the NHL when Ray Shepard. Scored scoring 50. But if he had 38 as a rookie, that's pretty impressive in here. And then he got trade. Now, do you remember this? Ray Shepard then got traded from Buffalo. He scored 24 for the Rangers.

And the Rangers acquired him for $1. Do you remember this? Ray Shepard got traded to the Rangers for $1. You know what? It rings a bell now that you say it. But no, I mean, Chris Draper is the $1 deal that we all remember. And so is Ray Shepherd. Ray Shepherd.

Okay, wow. That's got to, well, it's, you know what? Then it's funny that, I mean, I guess because Draper played forever for Detroit, but it's funny that we remember that. You would think the 50 goal guy for $1, that's a pretty good conversion rate. But wow, okay. Yeah, I didn't remember that. So those are the teams in Detroit.

Again, he had a 50 goal, like you said, he had a 50 goal season with Detroit. When you look at Ray Shepherd's numbers, Sean, 357 goals in only 817 games. Like, he's top 100 all time in terms of goals per game. He's got a better goals per game rate than Brendan Shanahan, Matt Sundeen, some other kind of 500 goals scores. Like, is he the most unheralded 50 goals score of all time? I got traded for a dollar. Yeah, I mean, that certainly builds him a good case.

I've got three other names I'll throw at you. And then we can sort of figure out if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, shepherd takes the crown. Uh, number one, just only because it's probably the name people are thinking of as they listen to this would be Jonathan Chichu, right? Yeah. We all remember the, the, the year that Joe Thornton comes over and, and they find the magic there.

Um, and Jonathan Chichu only play 500 games in the NHL, only scored 170 goals in, uh, basically seven seasons was out of the league before he was 30. Jonathan Chichu did score, first of all, he wasn't the one hit wonder people remember. He had 37 goals the year after that. And he had 28 goals the year before, which was the year before Joe Thornton showed up. And I know 28 goals doesn't sound like a lot,

but 28 goals in 2004, the clutch and grab dead puck hooking and holding era. That's not nothing. I mean, this goes a guy who had some talent, but I'll put his name out there. One that for me always sticks out just because he was briefly a Maple Leaf is Mike Bullard, not the talk show host, the player. But I looked it up and he actually, he had 50 goals for the Penguins back in the 83, 84 year, the year that they were tanking for Lemieux. But he had a 48 goal season for the flames a few years after that. So maybe he doesn't qualify.

I'm going to hit you with the one that I would make the case for, okay? And in fact, I'm going to do it. I'm going to give you a last name. And I want you to tell me the first name that comes to mind because I'm going to argue this guy isn't even the most famous guy of his own weird name. Okay. Yeah. 1980s player. Here's the last name. Babbage.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You think of Dave Babbage, but it's Wayne Babbage, right? It's Wayne Babbage. Yeah, Dave Babbage, the, you know, the defensive defenseman who was his brother. Wayne Babbage was a guy who breaks in with the blues, has a couple of 20 goals seasons.

In his third year, he scores 54 goals. And then never again has more than 20 in his career. He is the only guy that I can find who has a 50-goal season who never had even a 30-goal season in any other year. He ends up playing just nine NHL seasons, ends up pretty similar to Jonathan.

Chichu's numbers. 519 games, 192 goals, and that's 192 goals in the 80s, which is the conversion rate, the equivalent of about seven goals today. So he was just one of those, and the crazy thing about it is there's other guys

that you look at as one hit wonders, like Warren Young is a famous one because he played with Merrill Lemieux or somebody will play with Gretzky for a year. And the 81 blues, I mean, they had, I'm assuming probably for, Durko on that team and, you know, some other guys. But not exactly a team where you look back and go, oh, he was playing with a superstar.

Just one of those years, I guess everything went in and everything went to the net because he had some crazy amount of shots that year. He earned his 50 goals, but never, never got close to it again. Do they have whatever site you're on there? Do they have shooting percentages available? They do, yeah. So what's his shooting percentage? That's the he shot 17.6%, which is very hot.

but not any ridiculous, not like 25%. There was 18. There was another guy on the team at 20, three other guys at 17 point something. I mean, back in the 8, remember, this is 1981. Okay, goaltenders are going out there. They've got like magazines strapped to their shins.

They're all five foot three. There's a giant soccer net looks like behind them. So shooting percentages were very high back then. But it wasn't like he hit 300 shots on net that year. This wasn't a guy who just everything was going. in. He was just hammering the puck at the net. And for whatever reason, he never got really anywhere close to that again. All right. Well, listen, we'll leave it there. A reminder, if anyone wants to drop us an email, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. The athletic hockey show

at gmail.com. Listen, I, what was the guy's name? The anthem singer from Vegas? Greg. What did I say? Greg Bartholomew. Yeah. I don't know. I think we make a push to get him to join for five minutes next week. Are you suggesting he's not going to be busy? I don't know. We'll check into it. Okay. I say we do it and we don't have to.

Maybe he sings the anthem for us. Maybe he does. Yeah, and we'll see if it's better than Gentile and Customs. But we'll leave it there. Spoiler alert, it will be. Yeah. All right, we'll leave it there. I hope everyone has a great weekend too.

That includes you, Sean, Danielle. Our producer does a great job. Thanks for listening to this latest edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. And right now, we want to let you know if you're not a subscriber with us, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show. You can get an annual subscription for just $1 a month for the first six months. Again, that's theathletic.com slash hockey show, a dollar a month for six months. And you can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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