The Athletic Hockey Show - Seattle Kraken exceeding expectations, St. Louis Blues join the Tank Index, and mid-season Norris and Vezina odds

Episode Date: January 12, 2023

With the Kraken and Bruins set to face off on Thursday night, Ian and Sean discuss the Kraken's success and which team is out performing expectations between the two. Then, discussing Hakstol vs Montgomery for Jack Adams at this point of the season, what if fans could root for All-Star coaches, and the Blues make an appearance in the Tank Index. Also, Canadiens players are brushing up on their French.Next, Jesse Granger joins to discuss current Norris and Vezina odds in "Granger Things"... and forklifts. To wrap up, the Islanders welcome their millionth fan, the listener mailbag and a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to the TAHS Youtube Channel: youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/NHLSHOWSign up today at StitchFix.com/HOCKEY to get $20 off your first purchase!Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code NHL23 at Manscaped.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We're back. Welcome to a Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendes, Sean McIndoo with you for the next hour or so. We've got a lot to get to. We'll bounce around the NHL. We'll talk about Sean's latest Connor Bedard Tank Index. We'll chat with Jesse Granger for little Granger things.

We've got some fun mailbag questions this week in hockey history. I'll tell you, Sean, let's kick this off. imagine it's September or October. So go back four months or whatever. We got Seattle and Boston on Thursday night. I don't think anybody would have really circled that game four or five months ago, say, you know, this is going to be a real fun, interesting, entertaining game. But I think that's where we're at, right?

Seattle, Boston, on the schedule here, seems pretty good. And to me, I don't know, if the Cracken, who are just rolling at even strength, and rolling on the road, if they go into Boston and win on Thursday, how much does that change your view of the Seattle Cracken? It would continue to nudge me in the direction of buying into this team. I was slow on the uptake, which is not for the first time for me. But people who read my weekly ratings know that I tend to, you know, I like to during the season, I'm kind of conservative.

I kind of, I move a little slower than some, you know, there's some power rankings out there where the avalanche lose two games in a row and they drop out of the top 10. And I'm sort of saying like, hold on, you know, teams can have a week, two weeks, a month of outlier performance and, you know, I want to go a little bit slow and steady. So it took me a while because I was like, I would think most people, I had Seattle down at the bottom of the league this year after last year. They were 30th last year.

as an expansion team didn't do, you know, they improved, certainly in the offseason, but not to the point that you, you know, you suddenly thought they were a legitimate contender. I certainly didn't. And even as the season's gone on, you know, I've sort of been, okay, well, you know, but who are they playing? But yeah, okay, you know, lots of, lots of butts. And yet, here we are. They're record-wise, one of the very best teams in the Western Conference.

They're playing great five-on-five, as you said. They've won six in a row. And the big thing for me is, you know, you talked about September, October, somebody tells you Seattle, Boston big game and Seattle is doing well. I would have said, wow, okay, the goaltending. Goaltending must have flipped a switch. And that happens in the NHL. Every year, there's some team where the goaltending just gets significantly better, not even for any real reason other than it's goaltending. Goaltending is weird.

It's unpredictable. And that's what triggers the turnaround. And that's not what's happening in Seattle. And, you know, I know if you're a Seattle fan, you wish the goaltending was better. But as far as this being real and sustainable, the fact that the goaltending hasn't been great is in a twisted sort of way, good news. I also did not see Boston being this good. I wasn't quite as nervous about them as somewhere. I think there were, you know, there was a lot of, I guess I would say that there was a,

a real urge out there to get some new teams into the mix in the East after last year where we knew the eight playoff teams in mid-November. And I think a lot of people were focusing on Boston as being the team that might fall. There's a new coach. They had a bunch of injuries to start the season, at least early in the off-season. We didn't even know if Patrice Bergeron was coming back. We didn't know about David Creachie. I didn't think they were going to fall out of the playoffs. I certainly didn't think they would be on pace to have a historically great season. And I certainly didn't think we'd be halfway in the season and they'd be unbeatable on home ice, have not lost in regulation yet. If the Seattle Cracken go into Boston and beat them

in regulation and snap the streak tonight, I mean, biggest game in Seattle Cracken history for sure. Biggest win would be. And I really do think that would get a lot of us to have to snap in and say, okay, this Seattle Cracken team, this isn't a great story. This isn't like, oh, hey, good for them. Now get into the playoffs and losing the first round, and it's still a success. This is a team we actually have to take seriously. Okay. So, you know, along those lines, then which of these two teams is out, I guess, out kicking

or outperforming your preseason thought of where they could be? Is it Seattle or Boston that you're like, wow. Because I kind of think maybe it's Boston, right? Yeah, boy. I mean, as far as, if it's places in the standings, then it's Seattle, right? Because this is a team that I thought would probably be bottom five. And instead, they are kicking around. You know, they're knocking on the door of top five.

They're not quite there. But they're close to that. But, I mean, there was no circumstances where I looked at Boston coming into this year and said, oh boy that 2019 lightning team better look out those 70s habs teams better look out because this could be legitimately one of the two I mean they're on pace to not just hit 60 wins but blow by 60 wins in the cap era in the parody era it's

you know it's it's been phenomenal and it could not have imagined really I don't think I could have imagined that scenario again with Seattle, I could have said, okay, goal-tending goes crazy. Ah, boy, you know, PDO can do wild things. Maybe this, you know, everything goes right for them. Maybe I could have twisted my own arm and talked myself into that. I don't think I could have seen an 850 points percentage from any team in the league,

let alone a Boston team that a lot of people were getting ready to write off. Now, I think you could make an argument that the two head coaches in this game, Jim Montgomery, for Boston, Dave Haxdell for Seattle. They might be your frontrunners for the Jack Adams. I'll tell you why I might go Haxstall a little bit. And you brought this up. Usually when we talk about a Jack Adams winner, we can directly tie it to his goaltending.

In fact, I'd love to see the numbers on Jack Adams winners and the correlation with safe percentage or Vezna Trophy finalists or whatever. And it would be very, very strong. Yeah. Seattle's got an 891 save percentage. Martin Jones, if you just looked at it and you're like, oh, Martin Jones is 19, 5, and 3, you might be like, oh, wow, he's having a great year.

It's got an 894 save percentage allowing almost three goals a game. And so I kind of look at this and think, and because Seattle's been so good at even strength, it's not like, you know, you think of last year, take a team like the Rangers and we're like, oh man, you're just riding Shasturkin and a crazy power play. And you're like, that's probably not, you know, coaching to some degree. And I'm looking at this Seattle team and, Chuck, they're so good at five on five. Like, I covered a game of theirs this week. They came into Ottawa and they scored eight even strength goals, not a single power play goal.

And I was just blown away by the end. And now they got Eli Tovin in there. And you know, there's like 20 fan bases that are. just screaming at their general manager, right? Like, how did you let Tolvinan go through waivers and not put a claim? He's looked, I think he's got six points and six games, right? Like, like they're just, I feel like Haxdale would get my vote for Jack Adams if we're having the vote here at the kind of quasi halfway point in the season.

Yeah, I mean, he'd certainly be up there. I mean, it feels to me, and I've written this a couple of times, it feels to me like we've already decided that Jim Munnke. is going to get the Jack Adams in Boston. And I say we, I mean, we're not the ones, we the media are not the ones who vote on it. But I've seen more than a few references to it already being his award. And he's done a fantastic job.

And certainly it's an amazing story. If you like a good story, Jim Montgomery coming back, getting his chance to redeem himself and being coach of the year, year one would be fantastic. That said, I don't, you know, I think certainly Dave Hacks, as a case. I think Lindy Ruff as a case, I would say that the guy that Jim Montgomery replaced Bruce Cassidy going into Vegas on a team that's loaded with talent, but we all looked

and said the goaltending's what's going to take that team down after Robin Lennar went down, I think he deserves some consideration. But it is, it's a tough conversation for me because both Lindy Ruff and Dave Haxdell are two guys I did not buy into at all, at all heading into this season. I wrote in my preseason predictions with the devils. I said, let's try to figure out what game Lindy Ruff gets fired and Andrew Burnett tags in because that's, it felt inevitable to me. And of course, a month later, you know, not just me, but the fans are all saying, sorry Lindy because he's done a fantastic job. Dave Haxhill, man, I was not blown away by what he did in Philadelphia. he came to my team, the Maple Leafs, as an assistant.

At no point did I feel like, oh man, this guy's a, this guy needs to get back behind a bench as a full, you know, he was on special teams, special teams weren't particularly great. When Seattle Cracken hired him, I remember just going like, really? Like, I wouldn't even have thought he would have been on the radar for that team. And then last year, the team's not very good. And, and yeah, expansion team, you know, certainly, you know, our expectations were, we're probably unreasonably high.

But they were awful. And again, like, you know, as when you were up, I'm looking at it going, yeah, there you go. There's, I mean, part of it's coaching. And you got to, Ron Francis picked the wrong guy. Well, now we're sitting here halfway through the season and the wrong guy might be the Jack Adams winner or the wrong guy might beat out my other wrong guy. They might both be finalists.

The one thing I will say with Seattle, you look at their numbers and yes, they're great on five, they're scoring a ton. They're overcoming the goal to and they're fun to watch, by the way. Especially if you're out east and you don't watch this team a lot. They're high scoring. They're high event. Like, this is don't sleep on

this team. This is, you know, because that's the other piece of it, right? You would have said, okay, well, it's an expansion team. They're not very good. If they're going to win, they're probably grinding out a bunch of boring two to one games. And they're not doing that. So I love that they're having this success. The one thing I'll say,

as a team, they're shooting almost 12.5%. Yeah, it's got to regress. Now, you look at that roster. Now, I mean, it's one thing to say, you know, to look at some of these rosters that are just packed with top tier offensive talent. And, you know, when they start getting north of 10%, you start saying, okay, you know what, that might be sustainable. You know, league average is 10%. Is this a better than, you know, if Tampa or Toronto or Colorado when they're health, is shooting, you know, closer to 11, okay, you know what?

It's a good team. They got some snipers. You look at the Seattle team and you go, okay, do we really feel like this roster as talented as they are and as, you know, as much as they have some good pieces in place and they're well coached and the system is working, do we really feel like this is sustainably a 12 plus shooting percentage team? and if the answer is no, then you would expect it to regress. And again, regression means it comes back towards average.

It doesn't mean it has to swing all the way to the other side. But it starts to regress. The goals aren't quite there anymore. And next thing you know, it's the second half. And maybe we're looking at going, man, what's wrong with the cracking? What happened that they're suddenly struggling a little bit? And it may just be that, you know, the puck wasn't going in every time the way it was for the first half.

I'm not, I don't want to use the word luck. I know that's the four letter word nobody likes in hockey. And for good reason, because it makes it sound like you're just sort of throwing your hands up and not giving full credit.

But it's not, I don't think it's sustainable that they can keep going to 12%. So you're going to see that come down. You have to. And if you don't, and they go through the whole season with this roster and shoot 12,

go ahead and give the Jack Adams to Dave Haxdale. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a great point. And I know Dom in his latest column has touches on Seattle's shooting percentage. And, you know, it is. It's an outlier right now. And we'll see if it regresses down to kind of 9% or kind of where most of the teams hover. And look, we got the All-Star game coming up.

We're talking about coaches. And we know that Jim Montgomery, Pete DeBoer, Rod Brindamore, and Bruce Cassidy will be behind the benches of their respective teams because they're the points percentage leaders of their divisions at the halfway point. Now this week, Sean, the NHL is allowing fans to jump onto Twitter and kind of with a combination of Twitter votes and online voting, the rest of the players for the All-Star game will, the rest of the Rochers will be filled out. Here's my question. Do you think fans should be the ones who choose the coaches for the All-Star game?

And maybe more importantly, if they allowed us to do this, would we have all just figured out a way to get John Tortorella at the All-Star game? Yeah. After that quote, absolutely. And that's probably why they don't do it. Because, oh, boy, you could just imagine that stuff. I mean, maybe they should. I don't mind this system the way it is now.

I mean, let's be honest. We don't even need coaches at the All-Star game. It's a nice honor for them, I suppose, but especially with the way that the games are, you know, the 3-on-3 now, you don't even need somebody running lines out there. We could give them all the week off. But it's, you know, it's fine. it's a good

it's a good mix this I mean it's a fun fun story because three of those guys basically all swap jobs so it's uh you know it kind of becomes this uh you know this this three way um trade that went down and then and then Rod Brindamore

I don't know who would get voted in if we if we voted for coaches like just like is there such as is there a popular coach out there is there anywhere would it just be whoever has the biggest most online fan base would would win I feel like Brindamore would be the one guy that would get a lot of support from all around the league.

Would John Cooper? I think Cooper's reasonably. Like, he's reasonably popular. He seems like a fun guy. Team is pretty successful or very successful. Yeah. He'd be up there. I feel like Rick Bonas, I mean, at this point, kind of the elder statesman, but he's, you know, he's a guy that a lot of people like.

I could see him doing well. And then and then and then and then Daryl Sutter right. I mean just just just for the million laughs. You got to get him in there, I guess. Oh, man. Hey, listen, I want to talk about your, your column you wrote this week. It is the latest kind of tanking index where you use a very scientific

formula to determine which teams. Very, very mathematical. And it's, and it's tough. Like Dom called me up. He was like, can you explain this to me? Yeah,

explain this model. I went through it and he just went. It's too complicated. I can't handle it. So it is, you know, you know me and the, I've always been a big math guy. Yeah. So, yeah, listen, for the people that are listening to this that haven't read your call, essentially, you put together, you look at teams' goaltending, what's their motivation for tanking?

Do they want to be sellers? You put up, you know, you kind of add up the scores and you create the tank index. Now, yeah. And to be clear, this is the tank index. I am measuring who is in the best position to get significantly worse over the remainder of the season. Not necessarily who's going to finish last. I'm not just trying to predict that. We've got the standings for that.

But if, as I always say, as I always preface these things, in an alternate universe where tanking existed, because Gary Bettman has assured us that in the NHL, nobody tanks. But if anybody did, you know, it's one thing to say, I want a tank. it's another thing to actually be able to do it. So I'm looking at, you know, where are you in the standings now? It does matter. I mean, if you're 18th, you've got a long way to go to tank down to great odds. As far as being a seller, do you have anyone on the roster that you could move that's actually going to make you worse?

You know, like, I don't care that you could move your sixth defenseman and get a fifth round pick. That's nice, but that's not going to move the needle. Do you have somebody on your first line that could conceivably get moved and make you worse? Do you have the bad goal-tending? And then the big one is the motivation. Like, are you actually willing to do this? Are your fans behind you? Is the media behind you?

Is your owner behind you? Because if he's not, none of the rest of it matters. And then I add it all up with a score that I pull out of the air. Okay. So before we talk about some of those potential pieces being moved, because I do, I think that to me is the most interesting part of this exercise is looking at all the potential trade chips. the one team that really surprised me on there was St. Louis.

Can you explain to me what are the St. Louis Blues this year? Nope. No, I cannot. You can't or you won't? I cannot. No, I have been very clear on this. I do not know what's going on in St. Louis. The last time I did this, this is the second edition of the tank of next.

First one was mid-November, and they had at that point, they had started the season three and O, then they lost, I think, eight in a row. and they were in the middle of a seven-game win-street. So I was already confused. And since then, it's not getting any clearer. They're up, they're down. They look fantastic on some nights. They look rotten on others.

They're still only a few years removed from a Stanley Cup, a lot of the same pieces. And yet there are some nights they look like the worst team in the league. And there's some nights where they look like one of the best, and sometimes it's both. Sometimes you get one version for half a game and another for the rest. And, you know, they've got a good record. I think out of all the teams that I listed, the Blues had the best record of the bunch,

which means they've got a little ways to go. But they are a very interesting one to me because, you know, you talk about the motivation. Look, they're right in the playoff race. So for any other team, you'd say, I mean, as long as you're sniffing around the playoffs, you don't, you're not going to move guys. But Doug Armstrong has done it before. Doug Armstrong traded Paul Stassan. He traded Kevin Chattonkirk in years where they were pushing for the playoffs,

but he still had these guys. And in this case, all eyes are on Vladimir Tarasenko and Ryan O'Reilly, who are both hurt right now but are expected back to be healthy, but well before the trade deadline. It's going to be interesting. What do you do? What do you do if you're five points out of the playoffs? What do you do if you're, you know, what's the line,

six, seven points where you feel like? like you can still get in? Or do you start chasing, in the case of the blues, you're chasing small increases, small margins in lottery odds. You're not going to get to dead last. You're not going to have those 20% odds. But a couple losses might be the difference between 3 and 5% or 7 or 8. Is that worth strategizing over?

You think no. Then you watch the World Juniors and you see Connor Bardard and you go, you know what? Maybe it absolutely is. So, you know, as I'm going through the list of teams, I'm suddenly seeing it. And even if the blues aren't a seller in Teresenko and O'Reilly aren't kind of on the list. Okay. I'm going to throw out a few names here. I'm going to ask you, of all these players, who's going to fetch the biggest return

or who's going to be like the most valuable piece, okay? You got Bo Horvatt in Vancouver. You got Jake Chikrin in Arizona. it feels like both of those guys are going to get moved. There's been a lot of rumblings and stuff swirling around them. You also have Patrick Cain and Jonathan Taves. I think Cain would be the bigger prize there, but certainly there's some thought to be had

that those two could be on the move. And then there's Timo Meyer. And as you point out in your column, look, Shucks don't have to do anything with Timo Meyer, still under team control beyond this season, but if you're going to tank this sucker, you would conceivably think about moving Timo Meyer. So if you looked at all these names,

and Horvatt and Chikrin and Kane, who could potentially, who do you think is the most valuable piece that will get you the most assets back in return? Is it Chikrin? Out of that group, man, I mean, it might be Chikrin in the sense that he's youngish, he's not a rental,

so you're getting him for a couple years. Yeah. He's on a decent contract. And the fact that he's not a rental helps in two, ways because it, in theory, should make him more attractive to teams that are out there because you're not just getting him for a few months. But also, as we saw last year, it allows Arizona to say, hey, we don't have to move this guy. This is not a case of if we don't trade him, we lose them in the summer for nothing. Now, Jacob Chikrin, I think, has had just about enough of being

dangled on the trade market. And he's kind of said, look, I would like a move. But if push comes to shove and that nobody's meeting the asking price. In theory, Arizona can at least bluff that, all right, you know what, guys, we'll talk to you in the summer. We'll talk to you at the draft. And you just, you just will miss out on Jacob Chirken for your upcoming playoff run. In theory, he's probably the guy. There is still a part of me that says Patrick King is going to be the one that, you know,

because he's got the pedigree, the name value, the three Stanley Cup rings, that some team is going to say, hey, if we're going to go all there. let's go all in on a Hall of Famer. That's the guy we're going to go all in on. And then obviously, you know, Bo Horvats having the best year out of any of them. But it's such a mess in Vancouver. You just wonder what they're even going to do and how much they're going to be able to extract. I think some team will convince themselves that he's their guy.

And Ryan O'Reilly, too, to go back to the Blues. I really feel like here's a guy with a consmite, right? a guy with the Stanley Cup, how many teams be looking at him going, you know what? Boy, if we could slot him in as our number two or even number three center, that's the piece that puts us over the top. It could, in theory, be a really, a real monster trade deadline. And I'm fascinated to see, you know, how the guys slot in, especially those forwards. Like, who's the first to go?

Who's the, you know, who's the guy that, you know, is Horvatt, your backup plan if you don't at O'Reilly or is it the other way around or is it Cain? And Jonathan Taves, you know, if he agrees to waive his no trade, same as Patrick Cain, I mean, he's not having a great year and he's not the Jonathan Taves that he was a few years ago. But he's still, this is the captain, a three-time Stanley Cup captain. This guy's lifted the cup three times, the leadership and all of that. Some GM would absolutely talk themselves into. Hey, this guy's going to walk into our dressing room and make everybody better, regardless of what he does on the ice.

So I do feel like, you know, we do hit January very often and we start talking about all the guys could, all the big names could be moved and then half of them don't get moved. But it does feel this year like the pieces are lining up to have something big happen. St. Louis is having a disappointing year. So you think they were going to move those guys. Bo Horvat, you know, there's this push in Vancouver saying, like, we can't keep bringing this core back. So, you know, what are we going to do? Is San Jose with Tim O'Meyer? Like, he's a great player, but how many eight-year deals are you going to give to players who are not even getting you into the playoffs right now or even getting you all that close?

It could be really fascinating how it all shakes out. Chickren should be the big prize. But, man, part of me thinks if. if Kane is willing to go, that he might be the guy that gets the big return. Yeah. And look, it's going to be fascinating because so many potential teams that might want to nudge themselves towards tanking, maybe they make the move sooner than March 3rd. Maybe they make it.

That's exactly it too, right? Yeah. Like, because look, most teams in late January, early February have essentially a buy week married with the All-Star break, meaning it's just a natural time, right? to pause, kind of reflect, take stock. Like that, that to me is the next kind of pressure point. Or like, I wouldn't be shocked if one or two of these guys, the chikrin's, whatever, are moved at some point between now and let's say like the 10th of February.

And then what happens, right? Because we, you know, we've talked about this how the playbook here is you wait until the deadline, because the cap hit is lower and teams are in theory more desperate and teams know how much they, what they need to do. down the stretch, but there's always kind of this game of chicken between the contenders where it's like, all right, if I'm fighting with you for a playoff spot, if you make your move two weeks early, can I afford to wait for two weeks or do I need to keep pace? Because in those two weeks, you might get enough points that ends up being the difference by the end of the year.

Now we could see the exact same thing for the other contenders, which is the contenders for Connor Bardard, the contenders for those lottery odds and all of these blue chip players that the top. You know, you can be sitting there. I'm sure, you know, Kyle Davidson, well, he's maybe a bad example because the reports are that they have yet to sit down with Jonathan Taves and Patrick Kane and have that conversation. But, you know, let's say they do at some point soon. Maybe you're sitting there going, I'm going to wait till the deadline. But then Arizona goes and moves Jacob Chikrin at the end of January. Uh-oh, that's one of the teams that's chasing us, quote unquote for dead last.

And boy, you take checkering off that route. They barely got anybody. And then you start to get a little bit concerned if you're, you know, if you see Tim O'Meer get moved, does that make a team like a Vancouver or a St. Louis go, boy, you know, we could lose, you know, these teams that are kind of not in the running for dead last. Because I feel like Chicago's largely got that maybe not wrapped up, but the big favorite. But some of these teams, I mean, you're talking two points could be the difference between having the eighth worst record in the league and the fourth worst. And that's a big jump in your odds.

So it's going to be fascinating. It's kind of like who's going to blink first, who's going to make the first move, and then what's it worth to you? Is it if I think that if I wait for the deadline, I could squeeze another fourth round pick out of this team, is that really worth it versus, you know what? I'm going to make the move right now and get worse. and I lose the fourth round pick, but I also lose those four points in the standings that maybe I would have earned over the next couple months. You know, one team we didn't talk about

because I don't think they really have a ton of assets to move that would fetch that type of return would be Montreal. And just before we bring Jesse Granger in, I thought this was an interesting story. Eric Engels, who covers the Canadians for Sportsnet, past this nugget along, Sean, saying that the habs, and they're paying for this, the team is paying for this. I think it's eight players.

who don't have French in their background are taking French lessons paid for by the hockey team. And like, first of all, are you, like, I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't been done more, and maybe it has been done in the past. They just haven't publicized it, but, you know, eight guys taking French lessons

at the same time, I think is interesting. The other part is, if you are the instructor, are you upping your rate a little bit? You're like, the Montreal Canadians are looking for a tutor. Like if you're charging whatever per hour, you're bumping that up a little, aren't you? Okay. I mean, first of all, you're saying you. I mean, if it's me and I'm the French teacher, I'm doing it for free and then I'm

screwing with them. I'm telling like, you know, I'm telling Cole Calfield like, yeah, you know, how do you say the fans are great tonight? Je demande an trade is how you say that. And you let him go out to the media. I'd be messing with him. Man, this is, this story hurts. It's giving me flashbacks.

to like those high school French lessons and geez, we even had to take one at the university level and it's, I never did well in those courses. And I can only imagine somebody coming in flat. I put it this way. I don't think they're going to, I don't think anyone's getting fluent French out of this, but it's not bad. You know what? As long as they learn how to say thank you, Ben Chirot, I think they're going to be all set for the rest of the year. Merci Ben Chirot, I believe. Oh, look at you. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Real quick, though, do you remember when Randy Conyworth was

briefly the Canadians coach? Did he not take like Rosetta Stone like the online? It was something like that. It might have been. So here's my question. Why didn't they just hire a tutor for him? Why was this guy using an online program? You know what? That's a good question.

But your coach, when are you doing the tutoring? I mean, these guys, they're working 18 hours a day during the season. But yeah, oh, that was a rough one. Poor Randy Conyworth. They didn't like that he didn't speak French. And he tried, God bless him, he tried. But it was, and again, like, I'm saying this as someone,

I don't think I ever got better than the C in any French course I ever took. But even I was watching him going, oh, dude, that's not good. That's not how you do it. Like, this is, oh, man, I'm just picturing like Nick Suzuki up in front of the class, doing his book report on The Little Prince, just absolutely, just winging it, hoping nobody asks any questions. Come on, guys. just help me out here.

All right, time as always to bring in our pal. Jesse Granger for a little segment we like to call Granger things, brought to by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. Jesse Granger, as we bring you in, Sean and I were just talking about having to relive, you know, in Canada for a lot of students, you have to take French class at some point in elementary school. It's kind of like a mandatory thing. Did you ever study another language in the school system in the United States?

Yeah, obviously in the U.S., it's more Spanish. Yeah. I took three years of Spanish, and it's been helpful at certain points in my life. I had a job where I worked with a lot of Spanish-speaking people, and it helped me. But now that I work in the NHL and I cover hockey players, I regret so often that I didn't take French instead because I see the French reporters talking to the French hockey players, and they look like they're having so much more fun than I am when I interview them in English. and I'm like, oh, I wish I could do that. Yeah. So I, and I've forgotten probably 75% of the Spanish I learned in those three years.

But wish it had been French at this point. It is the worst, man. You watch them talking French and you're just like, you're definitely getting something really good here. Right. That I'm not getting like there's dead. Are you talking about, I just heard my name. What's going on here? Yeah.

They're pointing at Jesse and they're laughing. Jonathan Marche-Sosos laughing up. Yes. Yes. He's the guy that has the most fun in French. Yeah. Hey, like, now what grades? Was that high school that you were taking Spanish or when was that? Yes. Yeah. Two years in high school and then one early in college. And it was like one of those. I don't know if you're required or I think it is required to take at least one year. And then I was like, well, if I'm going to do one year, I might as well at least try to like actually learn it. But I, it was tough for me. I struggled with with second language classes. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I would have been better at French. French seems harder. I'll tell you that. Like just pronounce. announcing the word seems a lot harder than Spanish did. You're, yeah, you know, it's fun.

And now, and what was this job that you had that you were possibly having to toy around with a little bit of Spanish? I think we need to know that. Right out of high school, while I was going to college, I drove a forklift in a warehouse for like three years before I started bartending my way through college. And it was a cool job. I got to drive a forklift around, loaded and unloaded semi-trucks and then would put the pallets up into the up into the uh the rafters it was a cool job but uh i was i was like the youngest

person there by like 10 years i don't think anyone was was close to my age and um a lot of spanish speaking people in there so the the three years and i was fresh out like that was right when i was taking the three years so that was at the peak of my spanish speaking um so it helped me out it was fun i did not know you knew how to drive a forklift does that require a license a special license it did at the time i had to get trained yeah please tell me you Driven a forklift since? You fail? Yeah.

No, I did not fail it. I was actually pretty good at driving a forklift. It was fun. And I have not driven one since. It's been, how many years ago has that been? It's been like 10 years, I guess, since I drove a forklift. Tell me you at least keep the license current. Like, do you go in every five years and take the test again just in case?

No. Just in case. I do not have a forklift. I'm sorry, Sean, I can't help me. Dude, the next time the three of us are lost in Montreal, maybe there's like a forklift sitting there. We can go, okay, you know, does anyone here know how to drive a forklift? And then, hey, here we go.

The only way to get to the NHL, yeah, the only way to get to the NHL dinner is to actually lift you guys up with a forklift. Yeah, it'd be the only way. Good. Is it like a secret, like, you know how like doctors, there'll be a doctor on a plane and people, is there a doctor on the plane? Is there like one of your secret dreams is to be walking into T-Mobile? And there's like some issue at the loading dock. And they're like, by God, does somebody know what to drive? is pinned under this forklift, none of us are licensed.

Yeah. I could do it. I could do it. I wouldn't be legal. I mean, it'd be, I think I'd be violating OSHA of violations by operating the forklift, but I could do it. I'm pretty confident, despite all the time it's been since I drove one, I'm pretty confident I could drive a forklift if I needed to right now.

William Carlson is pinned under a forklift and the only guy was the key. Speak Spanish. Is there anybody? Jesse just drops his laptop bag. I've trained my whole life. My whole life has led up to this moment. All right, as much as we'd love to get you on for forklift tips, the real reason we have you on is chat about some trends.

And, you know, as we hit the halfway point of the season, you're going to see a lot of columns and discussions about NHL awards. And there's a couple that we want to look at here, the Norris and the Vezna. And let's start with the Norris Trophy, because Eric Carlson is having not only a Renaissance year, but arguably a historic year. Like, he's on pace for potentially a hundred-point season. And so I think a lot of people are curious, like, what are the odds on Eric Carlson

capturing a third Norris trophy right now? Yeah, they're actually not as good as I expected them to be. I'll start by saying, I don't particularly like watching Sharks games. I don't seek them out, but because they're the late game. Neither do Sharks fans. Yeah, yeah. Because they're the late game and every night the Golden Knights aren't playing, I find myself they're on the TV. And I will say my favorite part about watching Sharks games is just listening to ridiculous Eric Carlson stats. They come up with different stats for the broadcast every game and it blows my mind. He's on pace. I think he's got 43%. He has participated in 43% of the shark's goals. And only one defenseman in the history of the sport has done that. And it was Bobby Orr. anytime you're putting the conversation with Bobby Orr, that's good.

The other one that I saw on Twitter, big head hockey, I'll give them credit. Defensemen to have more points than Eric Carlson through this point in the season. Bobby Orr, Paul Coffee, Ditt Clapper, Al McKinness, and Dennis Potvin. And the only one to do it while Carlson was alive was McKinness. And Carlson was one year old when that happened. So anyways, to get to the point, he has been spectacular. And so then I go and I'm like, you know what, this guy is probably. he's got to be minus 500 to win.

Like Connor McDavid to win the heart is minus 350. I figured Carlson's got to be that to win the Norris, not just because of how good he is, but he's got the name recognition. He's got everything. And I go on there and he's the third highest odds to win Norris. Keel McCar and Rasmus Dahlene are both above him.

Now, it's not like you're getting crazy odds. He's four to one to win the Norris. But the fact that he isn't the favorite to win the Norris right now. And even those listeners out there that don't like betting, I think betting odds are fun just because they kind of give you, they put numbers on public perception. They give you a, a numerical value for how we, yeah. Am I wrong in thinking that Carlson should be the runaway favorite to win the Norris right now? Like, are, maybe I'm off on this. You could talk me into Kail McCar being right there with

him. Um, but I would not put Rasmus Dahlian ahead of him. And I would, I think four to one feels very generous to me because part of this is, I mean, first way, if he finishes the year with 100 points, it's going to be very, very high. I know we joke about the writers just sort by points and that's, it's not the case, but that's going to be a real hard, you know, really hard to resist number wise. But also, hey man, we're, we're sports writers. We love narratives. We love the storylines.

And Eric Carlson, the two-time Norris winner, goes into San Jose, has to wander in the wilderness with this terrible team. Injuries, you know, is he ever going to be the same? And then suddenly, if he comes back for a full season and has a monster year, outscores everybody, you know, sets, you know, not sets records, but sets highs for this generation of players for a guy that, you know, people are already used to voting for, the idea that he's back and he gets. that third award. That's going to be tough for

a lot of us to resist. And, you know, Kail McCar is fantastic. Kail McCar's head is Norris already. You know, he's, he got it real young. You know, maybe, maybe a little bit of voter fatigue sets in. I don't know. I think four to one,

I'd be tempted at four to one. But here, okay, here's the thing. Last year, Roman Yosey flirted with a hundred points, didn't win the Norris, right? Like, so there's that part of me that, thinks that, yeah, I think voters have moved past, as you said, Sean, that era where they would just sort by points. I think this is going to be, this is going to be a really compelling

race. Like, of all the trophies, in fact, I think this is going to be the best race because I think there's Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg. There's Adam Fox. There's like five guys that you can make a legitimate case for for winning the North's trophy. I think Carlson would have to outscore all the other defensemen by like, we're talking like kind of like what McDavid would do to the forwards. I think Carlson would have to do that for defensemen in order to potentially be the Norris trophy winner. That's what I know. I think we saw it last year with Roman Yose.

He was the point leader, but didn't quite. Yeah, but let me let me say this. Roman Yose did flirt with with 100 points. He finished with 96, Keel McCarer had 86, Victor Hedman had 85. So, yes, Roman Yose was, you know, putting up those great numbers, but he didn't run away with it to the extent that that Eric Carlson feels like he is now. And even given that, Roman Yossi got more first place votes than Kelm McCar. Right. By, you know, by a few. Like, it wasn't super close. So, you know, the points didn't power him all the way, but it was, it was an extremely close vote. And that was with 96 points. Somebody gets, I mean, Eric. Carlson's on pace to go north of 100. And, you know, we got half a season to go. But if he gets to 100 points, I put it this way. I think he's got much more than the 20% chance that those

4 to 1 odds in play. Right. To your point, Ian, about being the closest race, the odds also reflect that if there are five defensemen with less than 10 to 1 odds to win the Norris. So that's the only award that I can see on here that's got five different candidates under 10 to 1. So it's, It is. It's the closest race amongst the trophies. And then when we look at the goaltending situation and the Vesna Trophy, that's another race that, I mean, it could be really good. I think that you look at what Boston's doing and the Islanders are doing with Sorokin

and, you know, some of the goaltending around the league has been really good. But UC Saros is an interesting name. Have the 60, whatever, 64 save performance against Carolina, followed that up with a 38 save shutout in Ottawa. I know he lost Wednesday night against Toronto, but I mean, UC Saros is putting together a very good season and was a finalist last year for the Vesna. People were talking about him as a heart guy.

Where's U.C. Saros on the Vesna radar right now? Yeah, he was another one that really surprised me. I love watching U.C. Saros play. He is like every night I turn on and I'm looking for which goalies I want to play. He's at the top of the list right now. He's the shortest starting goalie in the entire NHL. He's 511, which basically in nowadays, like, goaltending sphere, 511, you might as well be four feet tall. The fact that he's even made it to the NHL at 511 that a coach would even give him the chance to step on the ice is amazing.

He's one of the best goalies in the league at that height, while every other goalie is like 6'4 or taller. It's because his footwork is so good. I was watching on TNT the Toronto game, and Lunguist gave such a great breakdown, get more of Lunkwist on the broadcast for, for me and all the goalie nerds out there. Lunkwis was spectacular with the with the like on stage breakdown of Soros's play. But yeah, he's been spectacular lately. And when you look at his stats, in terms of goals saved above average, goals saved above expected, he's basically second in every stat. And he's either second to Linus Olmark or to Ilya Sorokin in basically every one of those stats, so I figured he's probably going to be second or third on the Vezna Trophy odds, and it's

not even close. I was shocked. He is eighth. He is the eighth goalie on the odds right now. He's below Peter Kachetkoff in Carolina, which blows my mind. He's 30 to one. U.C. Soros is currently 30 to 1 to win the Vezna. O'Mark is plus 140, Ilya Seroquen is 3 to 1, Hellebuck's 3 and a half to 1, Igor Shisterkin is 8 to 1. And then you've got U.S. Sosos below them, Ottinger, Vasselovsky, and Kachetkov all the way down at 30 to 1. And I don't know if, so in order for Sarros to win the Vezina, it's going to take a lot bigger effort than it will for Allmark. Olmark is, I'm not trying to take away from Allmark, but his job is easy.

He's playing behind the best team in hockey. He's not facing the most high danger chances every single time down the ice. It's easier for him to maintain this pace than it is for Soros, who's playing behind a much worse team that gives up more dangerous chances. And last night, he played a great game against Toronto and lost. And we know that voters are going to look at wins and losses at the end of the season. So I definitely don't think Soros is the favorite, but to have him at 30 to one at this point in the season where we're halfway through the year, he's basically the second best goal in the league statistically. And by the way, you mentioned how good he's been lately. Over the last

20 games or so, Soros has been the best goal in the league and it hasn't been close. He's, got 24.9 goals saved above expected in the last 20 games, that's 11.7 better than the next closest goalie. Like we're talking 150% the number of the next closest goal in the league. So right now he's the best goalie in hockey. He's over the season. He's the second best. That suggests that maybe if he keeps this up, he'll run away with it. But the fact that he's 30 to one is crazy to me. Yeah. No, I agree. And it's the GMs who vote on it and they do love their wins. but they love workhorses too and he's leading the league

and shots faced right now close to lead in the league and games played and let's remember he was a finalist last year. He finished third so it's not like he's a new name to these GMs who vote it's not like they're not willing to put his name down they did last year

again I'm I'm with you favorite no maybe not even in my top two or three as far as favorites right now but 30 to 1 I'd be awfully tempted if I was the sort to put a couple of bucks down on that. Man, yeah, that, that's fascinating to me. 34 to 1 for a guy who, like you said, last six weeks or so might be the best goaltender in the entire NHL.

Jesse Granger, as always, great to have you drop by for a little Granger things. I'm sure you're going to get inundated with a forklift and Spanish mentions on the Twitter feed. So if anybody needs forklift, I'm here to help. You know. Yeah. Granger's your guy. Thanks for having me, guys.

All right. Always fun to catch up with Jesse Granger talking awards and whatnot. We'll open up the mailback here. Actually, wait, before we open up the mailbag, I want to very quickly hit on this story, Sean, because the Islanders this week celebrated a franchise milestone at UBS Arena. They welcomed in their one millionth fan. Okay, so the one millionth person to attend an Islander's game, walk through the doors Tuesday night at the UBS Arena. It was a woman by the name, let me get the name right here,

Jennifer Balecto. She walks in, she scans her ticket. All of a sudden, there's confetti, a drumline, mascot show up. They, they're like, hey, congratulations, you're the one millionth fan. She gets, it's pretty cool, okay? They got a $5,000 shopping spree at the team store. They got a thousand lottery tickets. Team signed jersey, tickets for future games.

They got to sit with ownership in their private box, yada, yada, yada. But here's what I find fascinating, okay? And I'm going to read the quote here from, now who's the Islander's team president? John Ladeke. Okay, he's a co-owner, okay? John Ladeke says,

we knew we were coming up to the millionth fan. We tried to plan for this, and you don't know who it's going to be. Is it going to be an Islander's fan? Is it going to be somebody who's running for the other team? You're crossing your fingers and hoping for the best. Now, can we just admit here that if the millionth fan walked in

and he or she was wearing a Rangers jersey, they're not showering them with confetti, right? I'm just picturing somebody coming up in like a John Tavares. Leafs jersey. Yeah. And the siren starts to go. Somebody just puts their hand on it. Like, no.

No. There's no way. Yeah. There's no way that's going to fly. I hope. I hope they, I mean, this is one of those things where,

look, I'm all for, you know, fair play and all of that stuff. But you got to rig some stuff. And yeah, you are absolutely within your rights. I'm always fascinated by this stuff.

When somebody wins something like that, where they're, you know, chosen randomly, but randomly, based on the order because you know there was there must have been somebody somewhere who was like oh no ma'am you go ahead and the alarm goes off and they're just you know cash is falling out and then you punch you do i get anything for being a million and one no you get to go to your seat go yeah go

get out of here we're we're trying to take we're trying to take photos a number a million that's that's you know no the islanders who've been around for 50 years does a million fans seem like a small number well that's like like i'm trying to trying to do math in my head now and figure out, you know, it's, I guess. Certainly, there were some, some leaner years there, attendance-wise, and for various reasons, but it's still pretty cool. I mean, it's a good number to come up with, but, yeah, that's, I guess congratulations to them, but, yeah, that had to have been rigged.

There's, there's, no way. Somebody's got to step in and make sure that it's, it's, it's. It's not, you know, it's not the wrong choice. Exactly. And look, as I mentioned, they got a great prize pack, including a Islander's jersey that says one millionth fan on the back, and it was autographed by the entire team. So very cool.

And that actually brings us right into the mailbag where we're going to talk about jerseys here in a second. A reminder, you want to hit us up. You can reach us. The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com or drop us a voicemail at 845, 445, 845, 8459. Okay. So last week, Sean told the harrowing story of how he received the Craig Baroube jersey at Christmas in 1991, only to have that jersey become invalid in the span of about two weeks when Barubi was traded to Calgary as part of the Doug Gilmore trade. Catherine from Connecticut has emailed into the show and says, first off, long-time reader and listener and first-time emailer to the athletic hockey show. Love the show. all I had to say on the Baroubae thing in relaying this story to my husband

who's also a long-suffering Leafs fan to make him laugh. What I really wanted to say though is don't feel bad here, Sean. My husband actually bought me a Henrik Lundquist Capitol's jersey for Christmas the year he was supposed to play for them. At least your guy hit the ice

for the Maple Leafs. Keep up the good work. That's from Catherine in Connecticut. That's a tough one. Yep, that one is right there. I don't know if the fact that Barabay played a few games versus zero makes it better or worse, but that is, that's a bit of a rough one. Oh, man. But at least, like, probably should have, probably should have tipped off the husband that they were, they were a discount. He did, I mean, he signed. Yep.

He was capital's property. But he never got into a game because of the, the hard issues. And I'm trying to remember the timing, because that was around, it was pretty, like, it was. not that wasn't a regular season right that was that was one of the bills delayed so it was uh it would have i'm pictured the husband walking and oh it's a 90% off on uh this lunkwis guy oh i don't pick that up yeah but uh no the timing the timing would have been a little bit rough on that one yeah no it's uh you know it you know that you see some people in fact i've seen them people have shame right habs jerseys right uh people thought that the habs they once they got the first pick they went

That's on you. That's on you. You're getting ahead of yourself there. You can't be doing that. You know, you do see it sometimes where guys it. The other thing is sometimes people, you know, they get the player, but they guess wrong on the number. You figure someone's going to wear the same number they were last year and then they switch it up on you. So that's a tough one.

Yeah, you got to, you got to watch out for those players. Remember, were you in Vancouver when Pavel Burray changed? It was going to change from 10 to 96. And that was a big thing. I remember Doug Gilmore at one point was going to switch from 93 to 94 for the Leafs as, you know, when the year kicked over. And it was something, I think there was, it may have been some charity or marketing thing. But a lot of fans were like, hey, we just spent a lot of money on this jersey. How about you don't do that?

And did talk him out of it. So that can be rough. Oh, man. You know, talking about Shane Wright there. We got a question in here. from Dan in Grand Rapids, who says my friends and I talking about Shane Wright being assigned to the OHL.

And we're curious here about NHL compensation. Are the Seattle Cracken paying him while he's playing for Windsor in the OHL that comes in from Dan and Grand Rapids, who adds thanks for all the great content. So the way it works essentially is this. Once you're in the OHL, you can't be paid. You do get, it's a small,

stipend, Sean? And it's really small. Like it's, it might be $1,000 over the course of an entire year, like something like that. And it's basically, um, they don't fall under,

there's like an employment standards act, but basically players in the OHL have an amateur status. So they don't receive like a standard salary, but they do get, obviously, they get room and board with their, um,

uh, you know, billet family. I know the organizations take care of, you know, education, transport, all that stuff. I think it's $1,000 that they get over the course of the year. So really, it's nothing. But Shane Wright, when he was in the NHL, obviously got paid up until the, whatever he played, the eight games, nine games. But the minute you get returned to junior hockey, you don't get your salary. So that's, yeah, that's interesting because a lot of us, you know, we just talk about, well, should he be back in junior?

What's best for the development, that sort of thing? It's got to be at least a little. I mean, Shane Wright will do fine over the course of his career, but when you're 18 years old, it's got to be tough going from, yeah, every two weeks getting that nice big paycheck, and now you're back. And does he have to, does he have to billet again? Is he like, has he got some billet ma'am telling him to make his bed? Oh my gosh.

Can you imagine you go from the NH Show? You're like at the Ritz Carlton or the four seasons where, and now you're at a bill at home in Windsor. Yeah. You're like, hey, Shane, by the way, breakfast is between eight and eight. 820. That's it. Yep. That's. Exactly.

Yeah. And you're on dishwashing duty today and you're just sitting there watching your Ruf Salafsky highlights going. Oh my God. I wonder how much of that money he banked. You know, he made, what was he up for eight games? So yeah. Yeah.

So you would stretch over about four months. Yeah. Yeah. He'll be okay. But he was on the, he was on the roster for, for longer than that though. So he'd be. Yeah. You'd get paid.

He'd be doing better. He'd be doing better. You're getting NHL money. Yeah. There you go. Let me read one more email that comes in from either, and I think this might be Mikhail or Michael from Finland. M-I-K-A-E-L. Are we going to Mikhail on that one?

You know what? You're the pronunciation guy. Wait, is it pronunciation or pronunciation? You heard what I just said about Slavkovsky. So don't, I'm not put myself out there anymore from the pronunciation police. Yeah. You're on your own. Okay.

Mikhail from Finland writes in. First of all, Macal says, love the serious tone that you guys take, which I think, I know, I think, I think he's joking. They get sarcasm in Finland. But McKell writes it, since the coyotes are one of the teams that haven't played an outdoor game,

I'm going to throw an idea at you guys. What about this? It's the Arizona Coyotes, Winnipeg Jets outdoor game in, wait for it, Atlanta. This way we could create a little bit more chaos, debate and confusion, whatever you want to call it.

about the statistics of these two, or is it one, franchise. Yay or nay, love the show, Mikhail from Finland. Yeah. Yes. You know what? I like the chaos to it. It's, uh, would you do coyotes jets in Atlanta or do you have to get the flames in there too as the, uh, to get the, as Atlanta being the, the only market that's

lost twice. Yeah. Um, that could be, that could be tough one. I'm sure, you know, I'm sure Atlanta hockey fans would really love to see the coyotes up close. And, you know, maybe Gary Batman could give a little speech about how, you know, he refuses to even consider moving the coyotes because it's just so important to him that we have franchise stability and all of that. I think that would be a lot of fun. Imagine that he goes out on speech. And then he's like, uh, any who, here are.

Yeah, here we go. Yeah. And then we get more of more of that stupid confusion where we're supposed to, you know, the who holds the record for. for goals by a winger by a by a Winnipeg jet oh did you see Timoselani no no I'm sorry he holds the coyotes record uh it was Ilya Kovalchuk is actually who we're looking for for the win of yeah get out of here with this get out of here yeah the jets are the jets that's it I've been very clear on this from from the get going I've never had anyone in Winnipeg pushback I've never had one fan from Winnipeg be like no actually we we really want to claim that

that thrashers history no exactly all right let's wrap pop the show like we always do with a little this week in hockey history on Thursday. Let's go back to 1976, the 11th of January. The Philadelphia Flyers defeated the Soviet Red Army. They were touring in North America for about three weeks. Red Army comes over. They play the Flyers. Philadelphia wins 4-1.

That game is memorable for, I guess, a young Bob Cole going on the broadcasts and said, they're going home. They're going home. So the flyers are running around doing what the flyers are doing in the mid-70s, which is using physical and kind of intimidation tactics. The Red Army basically pulls themselves off the ice. Now, here's my question for you. As I was reading the NHL.com recap of the game on this date in NHL history,

there's no mention that the Red Army left the ice in protest due to the Flyers' rough tactics. Is this some selective editing? Like, what happened here? That's a crucial element to the story, isn't it? That's, I mean, that is the story, really. I mean, that's why that game is remembered today. But I'm not shocked. The NHL.com does tend to sometimes shy away from some of the more controversial or, you know, physicality, violence, that sort of thing.

You know, it's not rare to see a game these days. We don't see a ton of fighting, but if there is a game that has a few. scraps where they just forget to mention that or gloss over it. So I'm not completely shocked, but you would think you'd find a way to at least, at least mention it because that is the part that everybody remembers is the Soviets walking off the ice and Bob Kohl just giving it to him from the broadcast, Putin. Yeah, yeah. So January 11, 1976, one other this week in hockey history, we're going to go 10 years after

that. Same date, the 11th January, 1986, Marcel Dionne, becomes the first. player in NHL history to record 20 goals in each of his first 15 seasons in the NHL. I got to tell you, as we're counting down NHL 99, I feel like Marshall Dion is often overlooked in NHL history. And I know we don't have to tell people where Dion is going to land. But if I'm not mistaken, you did the story on Marcel Dion?

I did. Yeah. Okay. And that's going to be coming out soon. Coming up, because we're, we're, to give people a sense. we're up to 22. Brett Hall was 22. Or down to 22, I guess.

Yeah, we just passed T. Mussolani at 23 and Brett Hall at 22. Okay. So I have only one question for you. In your Marcel Dion piece that is going to run at some point in the next little bit, at any point do you refer to his longtime nickname of being the Little Beaver? That's not a real nickname. That was that? Is that?

Look up. Where are you getting that from? Google, well, I would tell you Google Little Beaver, but maybe just Google Marshall Beyond nickname. Yeah, I might do that. Okay. Okay. That was his nickname. Like, I feel like enough people don't know that. No, I, well, I did, oh, look at that. The Little Beaver. Okay. Well, I mean, now I got to rewrite the, I got to rewrite the whole article. Yeah, the whole thing. I got to go. Take it down. Because I don't have a lot of time to get this thing out. but it's, get me rewrite because it's now going to be just nothing but 2,000 words on Little Beaver.

Yeah. There you go. Okay. So we're learning things here. I think that might be of all the nicknames in hockey history, that's the one that you're like, yeah, I don't,

I don't think he'll bring that one here. Got his little Beaver nickname during his junior career due to resemblance to a pro wrestler. Oh, that's okay. I know which wrestler was a little beaver, and I don't, okay, that's, I'm not going any further with that, but, okay, well, I, I feel like we could have given him a new nickname at some point. But you know what? He got, he had the triple crown. He was part of the, the, the one of the all-time great line nicknames. Yeah, that overshadows with the kings. His personal nickname. Well, I would have thought it did, but maybe not, because now I'm, I don't know what to think. Like I say, I'm, I'm tearing it up and I'm, I'm starting to overshadowed. again. But think about, on the Marcel Dion piece.

If you look at like the greatest players of all time in terms of their points and like look at that all time you know,

Gratsky was the great one, Mario is the magnificent one, Gordy Howe was Mr. Hockey. And then there's the little beaver. Yeah. Like why do you think this guy gets overlooked

and overshadowed? We just didn't give him a great nickname. Obviously if he had been the medium-sized beaver, we would have, we would have noticed him more. But this is, Guys. Yeah, that's a rough one for Marcel.

Okay. Well, I learned something today. There we go. All right, we'll leave it there. Hopefully, the listeners learn something today. Have a little bit of fun. We want to thank everybody for listening. To this Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, can always email us. Your questions to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com leaves us a voicemail. That 8454458459. Right now, you can get a one-year subscription to the athletic for $2 a month. when you visit the athletic.com by hockey show.