The Athletic Hockey Show - Senators stomp Panthers in Brady’s return

Episode Date: October 22, 2026

It was a night for Brady Tkachuk to forget, as his Florida Panthers lost 5-1 in Ottawa. Senators fans let their former Captain know how they really feel after he forced a trade to Florida. Max, Sean and Shayna look back on the playoff-like atmosphere in Ottawa, and discuss Tkachuk's return to Canada with Julian McKenzie, and how it compared to brother Matthew's return in Calgary a few years earlier. Plus the crew discuss possible trade destinations for Simon Edvinsson, Dylan Larkin and Connor Hellebuyck.Hosts: Max Bultman & Sean GentilleWith: Shana Goldman and Julian McKenzieExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Bultman here alongside Sean Gentilly and Shana Goldman for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. We got a packed show today. We're going to try to solve some of the NHL's problems in segment two today. But first, we got to start in Ottawa, which was the only two games on the schedule last night. You only really needed one. It was must-see hockey. It was an incredible atmosphere at the Canadian Tire Center.

Julian McKenzie is going to join us in just a second. But I want to just, before we bring them on, get your guys's first reactions here, Sean, because that was a spectacle. Yeah, it should have been a spectacle. I know we're going to talk to Julian about this for a fact. But those fans deserve to be mad. Like if there ever were a player archetype

that a fan base should be pissed at, if ever there were a situation that called for it, it was what went on with Brady Kachuk in Ottawa. He's the captain of the team, up and coming team. We heard for years about the relationships that he had with his teammates

and blah, but but but, but forget all the podcast stuff, right? Forget the math you could chuck of it all. That was already a recipe for anger in emotion. When you throw in the circumstances surrounding it, when you throw in

the fact that, you know, he went from being like, I don't understand what the problem is here to doing exactly what everybody feared he would in a matter of a couple months. They deserve to be mad. He deserved that kind of response. In a lot of ways, you probably deserve more.

But the end result, at least last night, was, yeah, I think it was a great night of television. I also love the Amazon Prime broadcasts, because that's the one I caught. It was, it felt big. And it seemed like the senators and the fans, in the roster, and everybody involved with the team treated it as such. So, yeah, it was a fun.

little thing to have go down on October 21st. Brady Kachuk scores the first goal of this game, Shana. Like the senators come out firing and they have, I think Brady Kachuk's goal was the first shot of the game for the Florida Panthers. Senators are trailing. They finally tie the game. I think by the time they tied it, it was like 11 to 1 shots on goal. But from that point, Ottawa did not look back.

They were on fire. Yeah. It felt like that could have been such a momentum swing. And quick note on the broadcast, Sean, good point that prime broadcasts did a fantastic job. I was watching it as well. And the whole time I'm thinking this should be nationally broadcast in the U.S. too. I know it's Ottawa.

I know it's Florida. But this was a moment that they failed to capitalize. But it's fine because the Amazon Prime broadcast did such a good job. But yeah, it felt like that could have gone either way. The second Brady Kachuk scored of maybe you shouldn't have booed him when the, and I don't want to tell fans what to do or how to feel. But when his tribute video was up, it was the one time I was like, I would have gone silent. Stop the booing for one second because he was reveling in it too much.

in that one instance and then he scores and I was like, is that the vibe changer here? But the senators responded as well as they could have, like in every which way, the physicality of the game, scoring, making key saves, even when Allmark goes down with injury. And the fans did not quit the entire time. And honestly, just kept getting more and more creative. Like, I give Allmarks to Senators fans because I think the bar for this kind of game is very high. And we've seen in recent years other teams being similar. situations to come the day after we see Columbus, Toronto to you to bring that kind of energy.

Amazing. And also one one thought on the on the on the on the on the video board tribute. I get why they structure it that way. I get that you focus on stuff they did with kids in the community and in whatever. And I get why the fans saw right through that. And we're like, nope. We like we see what's going on here. We see that there's a little bit of a operation human shield taking place.

there to minimize the booze, I would have, I would apply. What else would they have played? Let's be real, though. Right? Because he scores a big goal here. He left before this team got good. If I were them, I would simply play a video from all those playoff wins, Brady Kachuk led them to over the last few years.

I think that's what they should have done. A really long montage of their postseason success. All right. Well, let's bring in our Ottawa Senator's beat writer now, Julian McKenzie. Julian, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me, guys. I had no idea Sean Gentile hated Brady Kachuk this much.

This is, like, dude, I, like, you can speak to this. You're, you're an expert on Kachuk revenge return games because you covered Matthews when he came back to Calgary. I, you know, I don't mean to overstate this.

And it's, and it's, because, but it's sports. Like, this is why we pay attention to professional sports. This is why we care about it in general. It's for moments like this. Like, It doesn't have to get.

I think that's where, and I don't know what your stance on this is, Julian. I think that's where Sends fans, they found the bar last night. Like there was nothing, there was nothing crazy. It didn't get truly ugly. There was nothing,

you know, next level personal and screwed up that happened, but they walked right up to it. And I think that's what we expect from, for moments like this. Yeah. Like, I heard from people before the game

who were wondering about the level that they would get at, someone who I won't mention. said that like, oh, Ottawa's kind of like a mild-mannered city. They're not going to get that upset. And I'm like, they loved this Brady Kachuk guy who was a villain to everyone else. They defended him, not just like the fan base. Like the organization went out of their way to defend him when all these trade rumors were going around.

Michael Anlaw, the majority owner, accused the Rangers, a whole other organization of soft tampering. And even before that came out, our former colleague. Ian Mendez put out like the definition of the word Whopper to suggest that like that report was even like erroneous the idea that Brady Kachuk would leave this organization to join the Rangers. I know that's one example, but so many people at different points, whether you're a fan of this team or the organization, they were willing to do everything it took to show that Brady Kachuk was going to

stay with this organization. And he decided this offseason he didn't want to go through that anymore. Everyone in the fan base, and this organization has every right to be mad. I don't personally begrudge pretty chuck for leaving. But all those fans, all the people on the senators who work in management in that dressing room, who feel away about it,

they have every right to feel away about it. So I think the reaction yesterday, I was expecting it to be vicious. I was expecting it to be at a level where the booze would be deafening. But I also need to give them props because the fact that we heard some creative chance and they persisted into the third period,

that I didn't expect. I didn't expect the energy to last as long as it did and have that anger show itself and the pettiness, the Lars Eller standing ovation. Incredible. Mr. Brightside from the dressing room at the end of the game. This is a next level of hating.

I'm usually someone who tries not to hate I try to be good with everybody. But damn it. Not me. I get why. I get why. I get why people hate. It's crazy.

And I'm not better to be too if I need to. But man, I get what you're a fan. Like if you're a fan of a team, any team, the Ottawa senators, the Pittsburgh pirates, the Oklahoma City Thunt, like pick whatever. If you're a sports fan in something like this happens, to you and you can't get pissed about it and you can't hit that level. You are in the wrong business.

They should have been mad. That should have been the response. Absolutely, man. I didn't even mention the jerseys being thrown on the ice, which like, I knew there was going to be at least one, but I loved watching the pile form in one corner of the ice as Lina Solmark is trying to get himself off the ice and there's a whole scrum happening in front of the Sends bench. And then fans on the other side of the defensive zone are starting a pile of their own.

That was, to me, as chaotic as it could get for everyone. Oh, and by the way, everyone's yelling Brady sucks throughout that whole thing. That was louder. That was before I'll let you get there. That was louder than playoff games I've heard in that building from that band days. Let's go to the list of chance here. Alex Adams put this out. I think around the time of the, I think this was just the end of the first period that he put this out.

It was. We got you can't read. We got you eat crayons. We got Trader. Matthew's better. We don't need you. Little brother. F you.

Brady sucks. Jimmy's better. Brady's balding. Simple, elegant. You're a sellout. Matthew's bridesmaid. I think by the end of the night that we're also overrated, who's your daddy. And look, this one hits home.

F your podcast. It's my favorite one of the bunch. You know what? That is your, I love the simplicity. Because sometimes your question, like, what are we here? hearing, what are they saying? And you have to think about it. So just hearing the simple little brother, Brady sucks. I'm like, good work, everyone. But that, top notch. There's, there's one that I didn't see anyone tweet out there that I don't know if I want to say on this podcast. But when I heard it,

I was like, all right, that's, if you have to ask. It's like, I was like, you know what? I don't know if I want to go there with that one. I had to double check with someone to verify that. I heard it. I don't think I'll say it. But like, I heard that. And I was like, oh, okay, they do not care about this dude. This was, it was, I wouldn't say it crossed the line. It's not something I'd want to say out loud. Let's just say that. What do you think the impact of this was for Kachuk?

Like, I think he got asked about it a little bit after and he said, I forget what is exactly. Like, were they? Were they like he? So one of the media members in there asked him about how ruthless the chance were. And the first thing he said was, were they ruthless? Yeah. Like Brady Kachuk, we should not be surprised. He acted the way that he did post-game during the tribute video when he scores the goal and he shrugs.

And I think, I don't know if he, if there was a mic that caught him saying it, I think people were reading his lips when he was saying, like, I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but like, same thing as usual or something like that. Like he said something as he was going through the handshake line with his teammates. But Brady Kachuk is a player who likes to be the villain. you are like whenever i see people get on about all like the brady kachuk brady kachuk and matthi kachuk like you see them all the time like i don't like these guys you're not supposed to like these guys you're not supposed to like them when they do all the stuff that they do on and off the ice they have leaned into this level of villainy that okay there will be fans who will get behind it in the sense of you know them wanting to grow the game but as a fan if they're not on your team you're not supposed to like them so of course brady kachuk was going to lift his stick and salute to the fans and wave to everybody. And when he scores that goal and he quiets everybody, Sends fans have seen that work in their favor for years. Why would he act any different when the opportunity came for him to put it back on his former team?

Like, that went exactly as I thought it would go. It's just the Sends just never let up after that. And they were galvanized at the fact that fans hated him and wanted to see him. lose. If you go back on some of the celebrations from these guys, like Tim Stutzla with the emotion in his celebration, Stephen Halliday is like in his first full season in the NHL and he's pulling at Austin Matthews putting the hand to his ear. Like everybody loved playing in that atmosphere, especially on the Ottawa Senator's point of view, considering the fact that they were winning that game. Shana, you're a proud Long Islander. I know not an Islander's fan, but I got to ask,

Like how close to the John, I think that's the standard. How close to the John Tavares bar did, did Sends fans get last night? Yeah, the Tavares bar is very high. And even like last night I'm watching the game with an Islander fan who was devastated. Like, John Tavaris was one of his favorite players ever

and was so devastated when this happened. And he's sitting there the entire time, like what he did was worse. His exit was, like, we're debating this. Years later, he's like, the way he left was still worse than Brady Kach. I would say if the Islanders are, the bar at a 10. I'm going to give them like a nine, which I think is very high because there was a

pettiness throughout the game that was very important. But obviously with Islander fans, and I think to like the makeup of the game, being at the Coliseum, where you get to, you know, pregame and do whatever you want in the parking lot and fans were like running jerseys over in the parking lot. Like there is a different level of hatred and petty. But then again, when we think of, I would say, us we Long Islanders as people versus very nice Canadians. Like there's a different level, base level and baseline of assholeery that like we have to consider in this. I would, I would refer to it as a region adjustment. Like we talk about era, era adjustment for stats.

I think if we go region adjustment for fan response is here, man. It's, it's pretty close. I like that. Because I think Islanders fans, uh, I'm not a Long Islander, but I have experienced the wrath of Islanders fans. They could be very, they could be very, they could be very, So like, I don't know how this or last night compares to them or other fan bases, but I will say that for the Sends, for that fan base, for everything they've gone through,

that was as crazy and as petty as I've heard them. And I think a lot of what the experience yesterday was therapeutic, considering what the summer was like. Also, I don't know if you guys have been following the Department of Player of Safety as we go through this. A couple fines are being doled out from that game. Nick Cousins just got fined. Matthew Cachuk just got fined.

That'll show him. Yeah, that's it. I love it. We're all like, you know, it's so great. The game, there's so much more hate in it. Look how much more interesting it is. And it's so true. Like, this is what we love about sports.

And the Department of Player Safety is like, all right, let's just, all right, everyone. Mail us a couple checks, and then you can go on hating each other tomorrow. Can I also just mention one thing, too? I think it was a shame that this game was not on national television in the United States. I understand that Florida and Ottawa do not resonate for American viewers, but I just think the Brady-Kachukness of this all should have made this a national game. And the fact that it wasn't the case in America at the very least, like, I think that's just rather unfortunate for you guys. It was on ESPN Plus. So if you had the ESPN Plus, which is-

And you got to watch it. broadcast, but... I did in Vancouver here, which was the first for me. But now, instead we got Sabres Flyers. I have to say, I like the regional adjustment here. If it's a, if it's an East Coast 9 and Ottawa 10, that makes it a Midwest 11 and a Sunbelt nuke, directed at Brady Cucke here. Look at, look at Max using the 10-point scale to rate human being.

There we go. Who could have seen that going? The only way that I think this could have gone better is had Tyler Clevin, who had the opportunity at the end of that game to drop the gloves with Brady Kachuk. If he goes through with that, I think we reach the elusive perfect score there. One more question for you, Julian, on this with the Sends, because as much as Brady Kichuk was the story last night, something happened for the Ottawa Senators that is going to ripple here, and that is the Linus Allmark injury. Do we know anything as of now about he has to leave the game? I mean, how serious of an injury is that for Allmark? And how big a deal for that is the sentence?

Or how big a deal for the sense is that? I think we're going to know something at some point today. When I walked out of the senator's dressing room, I actually saw Linus Allmark talking with Brady Kachuk, which the visual of that for me was just like, whoa, like those two players talking to each other, considering all the emotional things they went through last season. Look, just as an aside before I get to the Allmark thing,

there are still guys on that senator's team who still have friendships with Brady Kachuk. It is what it is with that, which makes Tim Stutzler's reiteration of that whole thing very impressive, which, anyway, that's a whole other thing. There's so many things to get through from that. Kudos. Kudos. Kudos of Tim Stutzler. But Lina Sotomark, I didn't see anything in terms of a brace or anything like that. There was another game earlier this year where he may have felt something and he got pulled early and Samerson took over the rest of the way.

I wonder if it's something similar to that. it seems like the Sends are trying to make sure that he doesn't overextend himself, and if they sense there's anything wrong with them, they just pull him out. I will wait to see what comes from whatever update we get later on today, but obviously because of how he plays, because of the start that he's been on, Lina Sallmark is everything to this team. Goaltending has been such a trending topic for the Ottawa senators these last few years. They need him to play, and if there's a world where the Sends have to rely on

Sam Erson and Jonas Johansson for the foreseeable future. Yeah, that's really tough for this group. Yeah. All right, Julian McKenzie, thanks so much for joining us today on the athletic hockey show. Thanks so much, guys. Before we take a quick break, Shane, I did just want to ask you. Sends have to host the sharks now after this. Back to back the night after that game.

The emotional hangover of that has to be crazy here. Yeah, you would think, great, especially because you're going into a game that it's not even like a division opponent, a conference opponent. It's the San Josei sharks. The team we all love it. They're so fun and exciting. And then you don't even have the William Eklund element of it

because that would have been really cool because you would have seen like completely different reactions of just like, here's his former club, no bad blood there. It's just here's your new opportunity and we don't have that side of it. It's going to be interesting to see how they hold up in a back-to-back, especially after this. But I'm sure the shark's defense will make sure the senators have some chances tonight. So it will be fine. I was going to say, is this, is this when we see the sharks win a game at

five on five? Is that possible? Is Dimitriolov playing? Is there down there playing? Because if so, I don't know. One of you guys brought it up earlier, but, you know, the difference in reaction too of like the Columbus and Toronto game. Like that's, that's pretty stark contrast to have in this one. Aaron Portsline kind of pointed out, it really highlights the contrast, Sean, of how easy Kirill Marchenko kind of got off in Columbus. Chris. Keryl Marchenko wasn't the captain of this team. And the Blue Jackets, even though, you know, we, I will say, Shana, you and me and

Tom, like when you wrote the preseason previews, like, I think the computer liked the Blue Jackets to some extent. So they had, they, you know, this isn't a, this wasn't a bottom of the barrel team that they were talking about, but also like they don't have the, the core that, that Ottawa does. they don't have the marquee value. So you're talking about a less important player on a less important team who left in a less flagrant, dramatic way. And I don't mean to discount the way Kirill Marchenko, you know, I get it behaved over the last

six months, right? But I think the differentiating factor there is, you know, Kiro Marchenko wasn't on a, Kiro Marchenko doesn't have a podcast with his brother that he used to say that he wouldn't leave Columbus and then went out and left Columbus in the exact in that exact way like there was no duplicity there was no appearance of duplicity there was a much lower level of you know public facing nonsense than what we saw from Brady over the last over the last few months so like I get it like there there probably wasn't going to be that level there there shouldn't have been that level of of of you know aggression or or whatever but that's more because all these different factors

combined to make, you know, the situation in Ottawa, like we said, you know, a nine out of ten. Sean hates podcasters more than I think I realize. I think that's my big. I hate myself. I hate you guys. Yeah. No, honestly, though, I think maybe we would have seen a better reaction from the blue jackets if someone like Rick Bonas was out there on the eyes because he's the only one getting mad,

it seems. He's getting mad every day. It's just not working. Maybe he needs to get out there because that team's broken. All right. We're going to go a break. Before we do, I just want to remind everybody that the athletic live is on YouTube. become part of the show in the interactive chat and hear insight from the athletics writers.

The athletic live is presented by Google Gemini. Check it out now and subscribe on YouTube. Be right back. All right. We are back and that was great stuff from Julian and segment one on the Ottawa senators on Brady Kachuk. Let's broaden out a little bit to the rest of the league here because CJ Chris Johnston's way too early trade board came out this week. And while it is too early, there are some situations here that might lend to some early action here.

There's some big unresolved situations in the NHL as we cruise toward the end of October here. Obviously, Dylan Larkin and Simon Edvinson with the Red Wings, Connor Hallibuck in Winnipeg, Alexander Nikesha, and the big ones. There's some other good names on that list on that list. Quinn O'Reilly, Jason Robertson, Jared McCann, Vince Dunn. So definitely check that list out. He's a big name. I know it's not necessarily in comparison to all the ones I read right before it. But I think that's an impact guy.

But we're going to focus on the four situations here that really are kind of crying out for a resolution. And the first suggestion we got was from DJ Lusier. I solicited some who says no requests on Twitter yesterday. These are some of the ones that came in. DJ Lusier, Dylan Larkin to Utah for Caleb Denoia, Dmitri Simashev, Jack McBain, and a first. Now, I think Dylan Larkin's good, Shana. This sounds like a lot. Yeah.

Utah says no, especially after they, I don't know, went out and got a center this summer and Vincent Trocheck and already moved assets for it. Like, they didn't match the hate and offer sheet or they didn't acquire Trocheck. Maybe this is a different conversation, but it feels like that's a lot to give up for a center when you have other centers right now. Like it's a little bit of a log jams. Now you're forcing someone back to when I'm just going to say Utah says no. I think that package would be less.

than what Detroit asked for initially. Like, Detroit's make them say no, you know, first volley back at Utah would be, would be less than that. Yeah. Like,

like, if you're Detroit, you're thinking, okay, if it's, it's NAA, McBain and a first, like,

there's, there's no way. There's no way they'll say yes to that. Might as well see if we catch him on a weird day or something like that. So, yeah, and you're talking about another asset on top of that. Yeah,

I think Utah says no. I agree. with some quickness. I agree Utah says no to this. Now, I will say, like, Shane, I agree with you that the trochek of it all really, like Utah to me was the dream partner in a Larkin trade in June. And then they go out and they get Trochick. But I do think, like, Trochick hasn't gotten off to the super hot start.

And I do wonder if they could still add Larkin into this and find a way. Like, I still think they have the depth to do a big deal here. And the one that Sean just said, right, like Denoye and McBain in a first or even if you wanted to, if they said that's too low, could you go to Krause instead of McBain? and that helps you on the cap as well to make that work. I still think there could be something there. And Troche could slot as a three and be really good. I just think this particular package.

Utah's long-term cap situation is a little bit stickier than I think a lot of people would guess. We internalize them for years because of the rebuild and great job that Bill Armstrong did clearing cap, putting themselves in a position that they've been in the last couple years. But the bill has come due on a lot of those guys. and you have coolly signed for a ton of money long term. You have Gunther. All these guys, like they're locked up to reasonable deals,

good deals for the Utah mammoth, but that also makes adding, you know, a prime piece or an expensive piece like, like Larkin, a little bit, a little bit tougher. So when you start talking and they're like,

well, we'll send Loussen Kraus back to make the money work. That's when stuff gets a little fuzzy for me. Also, then you're guaranteed to let Hayton walk because they can't trade them. And I think that's the other wrinkle of all of this is like, how do you proceed there? And I feel like he has gotten up to a better start than maybe because they accept like he's not a 1C and that's fine.

All right. Next one is from Oilers Rice, which is an interesting name because this deal has nothing to do with the Edmonton Oilers. But it is a three-teamer. So he suggests Larkin to Minnesota, Philip Gustafson to Carolina, and Alexander Nekishin, Danilla Yurov, Charlie Stramel and the first to Detroit. This might be a Wings fan. I think Carolina has to say no to this one, Sean. Caroline would give up Niketian And get Gustafsett, Philip Gustafsson.

I don't think that's enough. I think it's close. I think it's close because if you're, I think the hurricanes would be third out of the three teams here in terms of value-headed back. But I can see the logic there. And I certainly see the logic from Minnesota's

from Minnesota's end because they're obviously desperate to add. They're desperate to add Larkin clearly, but they're short on assets. I think Gustafsson is like a sneaky underrated potential piece there because of how good Walsstett's been. And because Gustafsson, you know, more often than not over the course of his career, has been a legit, you know, he's been a 1A, let's say. So I can see why I can see why that was a proposal. I think it's probably a light no from Carolina, but I also think that's that, that

trade is closer to a yes than a no overall for me. Yeah, I think that's fair. I feel like the gust of sin of it all, his biggest issues in Minnesota have been the penalty kill. And the wild PK has been a weakness at time. So the canes have a little more certainty there. I think it depends on his health. And that's the wild card because he's coming off like serious injury and surgery that we

don't know how he's going to look. So that's like my- I like Bussy as like the counterbalance to that, though. I don't know if I want to sign up for 55 regular season starts and a full playoff run for Brandon Bussie. But if he's, you know, in a timeshare situation with someone like Gustafson, you know, you can guard against injury. Can you get value out of Cachecoff would be my next question then, right? Because then I would agree to I would want Bussie to stay. I think it's too volatile going Cotechoff, Gustafson.

If any team's smart enough to like navigate it to them. I wonder, though, if they're going to take on the Gustafsson contract, if they clear a little cap somehow in the process, and if, like, maybe you throw in clearing a Koganami contract. I think the circumstances surrounding everything maybe, I think Nekishan's a good player. I think he has a chance to be a very good player. But I think, you know, the full context of what they're working with there,

I think that I think that ticks his value down a little bit too. So, like, and it's all paper stuff. Like, Neketian's a better player than that. but, you know, contract situations exist and all that stuff. So I think we got to be careful not to overvalue Alexander and Ekesian whenever we talk about, you know, stuff like this. Yeah. I also think the wild, I don't think that gets them quite enough space under the cap for this.

They probably need to keep Charlie Stramel if they do it this way, too. They're going to have some. Well, they keep your off, though, if that's your tradeoff, it's one or the other. No, no, you're making the right move there. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, you can't get rid of both. Yeah.

All right. Next one is another three-way trade from Clean Hits. He says, Connor Hullabuck and a 2029-4th, always off to a good start when the 2029-4th is involved. Connor Haleighamuk and the 29-4th to the Utah Mammoth. Karel Vamelka and Jack St. Iveney to the Rangers. And Winnipeg would get Braden Schneider a 2028 first. I don't know that I have who's 2028 first here. Yeah. I think, oh, it's Florida's 2028 first, which was owned by Utah, and Utah's 2028 second.

So Utah is sending the Panthers first, a 2028 second for, and Karel Vemelka, to get Halibuck. The Rangers are sending, man, these are complicated. Jack St. Ivany, Braden Schneider, and a 2029 fourth to get, or no, the Rangers are, sorry, the Rangers are getting Vamelka and St. Ivany. The Rangers are sending Schneider in a 294th. and I forget who I haven't read yet. I think the Jets are just sending Halebuck and they're getting Schneider a first and a second.

Okay. Okay. Well, we're all on the same page there? I think I've got it and I think the Jets are saying no to this one because they wanted a haulback. We were hearing things like the number four pick getting thrown around this summer and it didn't move the needle enough. So I think...

Do that return is too future-based for what? Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. The Rangers, I thought the Rangers say no here. Like, they're giving up Schneider and they're just. Schneider is very overrated. Schneider is very overreated because he's big and he's physical and I feel like he's

what you want a defenseman to be. But he just has not looked apart in bigger minutes. And even now you could look at some of his play this year and he's getting sheltered and still like his defense is not. I feel like the idea of Schneider is what general managers will pay up for, but also like they didn't move. I felt, I thought they were. going to try to, like, I thought they were going to move them this summer.

And I feel like they weren't getting that needle moving return back that sometimes you think, like, you're, it just, no, I think they're interested. I get the idea of trying to put a goalie in New York, but I don't, I don't know, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm using that many assets, basically to bring back Carol of them. That's what I'm saying. To flip them again in the summer. Yeah.

It's, I, I, I appreciate the creativity there. Like, I like the idea of, like, those pieces. or that category of peace, you know, in each case, I think the logic is fine, but the specifics of it because of those teams' rosters, I don't think it quite makes sense. All right, Sean, I got two, you spent some time in Washington recently. I've got two consecutive capitals proposals for Larkin for you to assess. Okay, the first one is from Ian McDonald. He says, Larkin to Washington for Cole Hudson, Andrew Crystal, and Washington's

2027 first. You're already shaking your head, no. Nope. Nicole Hudson's the deal breaker, I assume. Yep. Yeah. All right. So then here's the second one. I put, I included two here because I was pretty sure that was a deal breaker. Although I do think, what I think is interesting about, you know, the Larkin and Edwinson situations happening simultaneously is that the Red Wings do need centers. And I think one of the obstacles in a Larkin deal is like can you get a center back from someone who, uh, is, is looking for a center. Like that seems like an obvious. That was, it was Larkin for Hudson and Crystal and a first.

This would not be that, but this would be if you can get your D from Larkin and your center from Edvinson, you can maybe try. If you were trying, if you were generally trying to put Edvinson or Larkin on the capals, you need to send cap out because they don't, they don't, they don't have any space. Yes. And that's where this next one comes in. Peter suggests Dylan Strom, Ivan Miroshenko, and Anthony Bovillier for Dylan Larkin. I think this is a Red Wings note.

The Red Wings would say no to that. The Caps would like to do that deal. But I don't think. I think if the Caps could do that deal, they would have done it already. Yeah. Yep. That's a tough one for Detroit. Yeah.

I mean, Marisichichichichensko is like, I do think there's runway there. But what's left on Strom's contract? Is it like a year after this year? Yes. He's a UFA after next season. Yeah. So you're not buying much time there and you're going to have to pay him probably more

than you're currently paying Dylan Larkin. I think Strom could make sense as the cap piece in a deal with the capitals, but I don't think he's the centerpiece. I think you're looking for, and I don't think they want to do Hudson. I don't think they want to do Proto. I don't think they want to do Leonard.

And that's where you run into some problems. But I do think there's a fit if they could work out who that kind of, I can, if Strome's a good player, he fits to some extent with, you know, I don't, we, I guess we got to be careful in terms of, of guessing at what the Red Wings long-term plan is. But I think like he fits from a, from an age standpoint, at least with the brinkets of the world. And he fits from a money standpoint, which is what we talked about two minutes ago, right? But I don't think he can be the most valuable asset headed back. And in the next. this case, Maroscienko's a good player. I think the capitals are very afraid of there's a reason he's still on the roster. He's waiver eligible and they don't want to have to expose him there because they do think he would get snapped up. But he's also, you know, what's he going to, you want a scoring third line winger maybe in a year or two? I don't know. I think there needs to be

something more valuable there. But it's close. Detroit says no. I did not get a lot of Nikitian and Helibuck, by the way. You're going to learn that in these next few proposals. It's a lot of Larkin and Edmondson, probably because I'm the one to put the ask out. Justin Arrini, I like this one. Dylan Larkin to New Jersey for Dawson Mercer, Alexander Command, who is a young senator who's their first round pick in this most recent draft and their first round pick. Who says no to that one?

I wonder about the cap here because New Jersey's had a lot of trouble. clearing out defensive contracts, thanks to all of the no trade clauses from Tom Fitzgerald. I wonder if the Red Wings try to juice this for a little bit more. I wonder if they're the team that says no, but I feel like it's the devils who like have to say no. And I feel like it's just because of how much Dawson Mercer's stock has dropped because that's a guy that like he's good as a top six winger. And then they've tried him back at center on the third line and ended up having to shift him to third. line wing at times. And if he doesn't have a good play driving center, you're not getting enough from them. And you get to a point like, look, look how much work they did this summer to find better top six

options. He makes $4 million against the cap. And they've got three million of space. And he's up for a new deal in a year too, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think the problem is command is probably also a middle six forward. And so you're, you're ending up with like three good assets, no great asset. But I think this is at least kind of in the ballpark. I've also wondered about like Anton Selyev, who was a high pick by the devil's on defense a couple years ago, who could make sense in something like this. To Shana's point, like there's this kind of cluster of D that you could move money from, but I don't think they're going to want to move like a Jonas Segan dollar necessarily, although it's the difference in getting you Dylan Larkin or not. Maybe there's something to consider. I just feel like the

definition of like that that's like trying to trade three quarters for a dollar. Yeah. That's what that. And it doesn't make sense. To do it too when you have like, you have great top six centered up. Like you're looking for a 3C realistically. How much do you want to pay for a 3C? I view it as you're looking for a great forward upgrade because you can move Jack Hughes to the wing if you had Dylan Larkin and you had Hughes on Larkin's wing. Like I think you could do that. So I think it's, you just view it as a top six forward and however you want to deploy them. What about Timo Myers? Another one I've kind of seen thrown around. I don't know if that's for Detroit. I don't know that I love that. I don't like that for Detroit.

Nope. It makes sense there. Yeah. All right. Another one here. This is Edvinson, this is from Blah, Edvinson to Nashville for Brady Martin or Wyatt Cullen in a first. I think this would have to be Wyatt Cullen, who had a really good World Junior Summer Showcase, and I think could be the kind of offensive, skilled center of the Red Wings Lack.

I don't hate this one. Is that a good? Is that a fit? Seriously. How are they moving out? I think then they're moving out a defensive contract, right? Is it Hague? Is it Shea?

Where are they clearing a little bit more space? And also, where are they going to get a dynamic forward from? You're talking about the predators. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, that would be the tradeoff for them, is you are giving up Wyatt Cullen, who is your definitely most dynamic young forward prospect for a ready-made top-year defensemen.

I will say they don't need to send out a defensive contract immediately. Like that does need to be part of, that would need to be part of, they can kick that can down the road for a little bit because they have, you know, $10 million on the cap or so right now. So I don't know. That one's interesting. It's the first one that I think we're all kind of like, okay, there's a vision there. There is a vision. I just don't, you know, if you can trade for Simon Edinson, you trade for Simon Edinson, right? Like if you have a deal that makes sense, I think he's, he's that level.

player where you don't really take and take organizational fit or or uh or anything like that into account but at some point the predators are going to have to uh develop some top six fours like i i i don't again i i don't think this is the time to to focus on that but i yeah i that's that that is that's i i think that might be a fit honestly i i i might if if if it were i'm going to bang the gavel on that and say that I would do that if I were either team right now. Judge S.G. Awards blah, blah, a victory in the court. If I were the Detroit Red Wings, I would just sign Simon Evanson for whatever he's asking for? Yes. But if they're going to trade him, then, you know, I think that's pretty close. All right. There's a couple more here we could

get to. Like, like, this guy, sentient Sun Respector kind of suggested a double barrel of Edvenson for Michael Mesa to San Jose and Larkin for Thomas Harley in Dallas. I will say, like, I've suggested said the Larkin for Harley thing before. I think if the dollar amount on Edvinson's deal is an obstacle, then 10.5 for Harley is an obstacle. I'm all like, I did not. And I've said this on another show, so I'm not trying to like bury the guy. I did not like what I saw from Michael Mesa when I saw him live last week.

He's 19. There's still a ton of runway there. It would at least give me a little bit of hesitance. But I see the vision of that of like, hey, there's a guy who could be a long-term top-six center. And I still think probably will be. But you got scalp brain there, baby. You saw him, you saw one in a bad night.

I know. Yeah. I didn't say that. I'm a little concerned by what I saw. Do you have, do you guys want to propose one? Do you have a deal on any of these topics that you want to propose? Hallibucker and Ekeesh and anything? I need time to think on that.

I need to like bring up a million cap sheets and get to work on that. Here's what I'll say. I'm not going to propose anything. I think this writ large when you're talking. talking about Niketian, Hellebuck, Nikesian and Hellebuck specifically. You can throw in all the names, all the names we've discussed here, all the banner names.

The overall environment is as close to one as you will see to making sense for a three-team trade as you're ever going to find. Yeah. Like I think most of the time three-team trades are message board, like HF board, you know, Twitter, you know, thought exercise in nothing more than that. Like, like we don't and shouldn't propose them seriously or take them all that seriously. I kind of think there's legitimate lanes there, though, for it to make sense here.

Yeah. All right. Well, let's end on that note for this segment. We'll take a quick break. Reminder that the athletics hockey 100 ranking the 100 greatest modern NHL players with a forward by Hall of Famer Ken Hitchcock is out on October 27th from William Morrow. Make sure you go get your copy. Coming up next, Shane and I are going to tell you our must-see games on the NHL tonight.

All right, we are back. We're going to get into which game we're watching today. For me, it's an easy one. I will be at Red Wings-Kinnucks in Vancouver. Wow, congratulations, man. Yeah, thank you. I think I'd rather be at another game in this time zone, though. I was going to say that's a very big, I'm just here, so I don't get fined kind of game.

a little bit. There's another game in this time zone. I think I might rather be watching. Shana, what's yours? Yeah, Keynes Oilers. It's not the same time zone,

by the way, buddy. Oh, yeah, we're an hour off then. Is it a bit of time? Yeah, the perfect time zone. 9 p.m.

Everything, everything west of Central is the same time to me. No, it's the perfect time because you can actually watch a game because they start everything else at 7 o'clock. Maybe I'm just big on Mammoth Crack. The bell. Did you ever consider that?

Shane is, Shane is on the, on the staggered start hobby horse. We need to have like a, no, I'm not. I am not. I'm simply saying a 9 p.m.

start is very nice to watch. For you. It is. What are you going to do? Go to bed at 11. Come on. I'll say this. Like for all the crap we gave for,

for the schedule that the Oilers had to start the year, they're riding consecutive wins over the mammoth and the wild. If they pull one out over the canes here, Shane. I think it's time to start. talking very seriously about them. Yeah, I just need to know how they played when Connor McDavid-Leon-Joris and Podkoulson are not on the ice because that is where I am like, and now that they have Hyman and Nugent Hopkins back, maybe we'll have a conversation.

If not, and it's a complete disaster, but they're just like slapping tape over every hole because that top line's so sick. It's going to be interesting. Sean, what do you got? I'll okay I'll say Utah Seattle Like I'll I'll

I'll tune in for the end of that Excuse me after After Hurricane's Oilers finishes up But it starts so late Sean No comment Um But I We've we've joked about the cracking a lot

Like we joked about them on the show yesterday Donald and I have been Making fun of them in the power rankings Like fine This team is second in five on five goals I don't know how they are. I'm interested in seeing what happens with them moving forward. Like I will be monitoring the Seattle Cracken to see if they hit the skids in the way that we all kind of assumed they would at the start of things here.

Utah is obviously really fun. That's a legit test for Seattle. So yeah, I'm interested in seeing how that one works out. A little bit of vibes of that Crack and Playoff team here where it's just four lines deep. but guys who are going to score 53 points all around. It is October 22nd. Little bit of vibes. I'm allowed to have a little bit of a vibe on that.

Yeah, you need to. No, they simply need 15 guys to have the best seasons of their careers at the day. At the same time again. No sweat. No problem. It happens. Never know. One quick news item to get to just this morning.

Nick Suzuki is going to miss two to four weeks with an upper body injury. He had appeared in 546 consecutive games going back to his rookie year. So Nick Suzuki, out. That's a big loss for Montreal early in the season shot. Yeah, he's okay. Two to four weeks. I mean, that's a meaningful time. I mean, he's an okay player. He's very good.

101 points. Selky win or not. Yeah, he was, he was starting to cook, too. Like, like, he was, he had a string of pretty high-end games there, too, which, you know, it's always, it's always helpful. And I think it's, it's wallpapering over some of the, some of the other issues that the, abs may or may not be having. We'll see how that plays out in Montreal. That is going to do it for us.

Thanks to Sean and Shannon. Thank you for watching and listening to The Athletic Hockey Show tomorrow on the Prospect Series. We'll talk about how some of the top young players in the NHL, rookies, and non-Rurpees have started this season. Enjoy the hockey. We'll talk to you soon.