The Athletic Hockey Show - Senators trade Alex DeBrincat to Red Wings, and could an in-season tournament work for the NHL?

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Ian and Julian return with a discussion of Julian's first experience at the Stampede, and as the NBA announced a new in-season tournament, could something similar work in the NHL? Then, the guys are joined by Max Bultman to discuss the trade that sends Alex DeBrincat to the Red Wings. To wrap up, the new game obsession Puckdoku and more!Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/NHLSHOW Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Ian Mendez. Julian McKenzie with you for, I don't know. Yeah, in the summer we like to, we don't like to put in rules. It could be a 20-minute show. It could be an hour and 20. It could be something in between.

What are we thinking here, man? What do we think of Julian? I mean, 40 minutes? There's only so much to talk about Ian. I mean, I think you know what? I'm one of those people that just likes to kind of let things go. Like, you know how in the middle of the summer you start to forget about what day it is? I'm not exactly there yet, but maybe with the podcast, we can start to do that.

We're like, we're not even thinking about time. We're not even thinking about the time of day. It is only a construct after all. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And you know what, though? We do have some actual news to sink our teeth into with Alex DeBri. Brinket getting traded.

I can speak. Don't worry. I can speak. English. You know what the problem was? I was up till about 12.31 a.m. Oh, wow. Like, just because Alex, the Brinket trade happened.

And then I had to write something off it. So anyway, we'll get into that. Max Boltman's going to drop by. We'll get the Ottawa Detroit perspective on this deal. Alex is actually speaking to the media in Detroit right now. So Max will jump in. We'll talk a little bit about Alex to Brinkett's headspace, how this deal came together, you know, all of that stuff.

So we'll get to that, but I got to ask you this. Yeah. So you have moved to Calgary. You went to the Stampede. Mm-hmm. The Calgary Stampede. I need to know at any point, did you consider wearing a t-shirt that said my first rodeo? That's a, I wish I did.

That's such a brilliant idea. Come on. I've always, my dream is to go to the Calgary. Stampede and where are my first? I've never been. This is legitimately my first rodeo. I want to tell people. I was hanging out with a few friends

the first day I went and one of them sent me a couple photos of me wearing an outfit. Just to describe the outfit for the people listening. Big black like cowboy hat and this kind of weird like Keith Herring shirt and I actually tied like

my like I had a light black jacket just kind of tied around my waist because I was a short of the weather was going to be like a mesh to kind of hold it around there. And this friend of mine sent me these photos and then wrote like a little caption underneath saying a man at his first rodeo. And I thought it would have been too cheesy to maybe like put that up as like an Instagram caption. But yeah, like we're in my first rodeo.

My first rodeo shirt was. Oh man. I wish I thought of that. That's actually a brilliant idea. You know, such a brilliant idea. Well, and now the moment's past because now the next time you go, it'll be your second.

You know, when you go to a hockey game and you know, it's a little kid and they're like, my first penguins game, right? Like you got a t-shirt or something. That was you. You missed your opportunity. That's it. Damn it. Okay.

Well, what I'll do is if like my family visits like next summer and like my dad or something will like yeah, yeah, you got take me to the stampede. Like I'll I'll get that for him because it's one thing if I wear that shirt. But if any of my family members wear like a my first radio thing, that's going to be the photo. Like seeing my dad like walk around the grounds, you'll be like, Julian, take a four, take a photo of me on his side. like or whatever, something like, just uses a trity accent,

wearing my first rodeo on a shirt. I would, I would love that forever. That's like, I'd give copies to that to every member of my family. Okay, there we go.

We planted the seed for my first rodeo. So give people, like, give me that, I've never been in the Calgary Stampede. So, and there's a lot of people

that might be listening to us from, you know, Michigan or Texas or Washington or wherever, and they have no idea what the Calgary Stampede is. Give us a broad strokes

version of this event. What is this? So it's very broad and I'm sure there will be Calgary people who come into the mentions and be like, hey, you're missing all this extra context. But the best way I can explain it is think of a random

like country fair or just regular fair that like pops up in your neighborhood but like times five. So like you walk around the grounds. You'll see like amusement park stuff. You'll see the typical, uh,

food and beverage stuff. Are we talking like deep, like can I get a deep fried Snickers bar at the Calgary stand? I feel like if you look hard enough, you definitely can. That's what I need to know. Oh yeah. You could definitely find like fried gator stuff.

Like I, I wish I was a little bit more adventurous with the food. There was a really good like BBQ place. I think it was called Prairie, I want to say. And they had like these like beef sandwiches, beef briscus. like the barbecue stuff was really good.

But what's cool too is they'll have these random like areas where you can see like live music. Like yes, like on the Sunday, they had like a Coca-Cola like music stage area and like Jesse Reyes, who's from Toronto, did a really good job, great performance. They also have these random like kind of bar club tents where like if you line up for a little while then you go in and you're just basically partying with all these people and going off all the whole time. Everyone's just getting drunk, basically. It's like, it's basically like this like massive, massive party. And of course, there's like a more traditional aspect to it.

Like there's the rodeo, the chuck wagon racing. There's the relay racing. The first night I went, there was like a horse relay race where you're seeing people like ride horses around an oval. And at one point, the riders get off a horse and they get on a completely different one. and then just keep going. And there's an indigenous angle to a two, and there were these First Nations performers as well.

I believe also this year was the first time in the history of the event where they had like an all female like race in terms of the relay race. So that was really cool to see as well. And if I believe this is like the hundredth consecutive year they've put on the stampede, but technically not the 100th year of it total. I think the first year was 1912, but they started doing it regularly from 1923 onward. So, like, if you're into going to Stampede to, like, really take in, like, the pure traditional aspects of the writing and the horse racing and all that, like, that's there for you. And you could take that in.

But if you really want to just go there and, like, hang out with your friends and get lit, like, there's that aspect, too. And you don't even have to go to the grounds. Like I spent the entire Saturday, like going to Stampede just parties. Like people are having like house parties, condo parties, all that. I didn't even like go to the actual grounds. Like I just partied the whole Saturday. Like it's, it's a really fun time. And it's cool.

And like if you, if you ever, if you pull up Ian, we'll, we'll take care of you, man. There's a lot of hockey media people who were, who were apparently jealous at the fact that, uh, I was going to do my thing at the stampede. But it's been, it's been really cool. It's been really fun so far. Okay. next year your dad and I are going to roll in in matching my first rodeo t-shirts. Okay, we want the full tour.

Oh, my God, yes. Okay. So like I said, we'll get to Alex Dubinkin a little later when Max Boltman jumps in here and we can have a conversation. I do want to talk a little bit about something the NBA announced over the last couple of days, Julian, that I wonder, I wonder how hockey fans feel about this. Would you want to see this in hockey? And it is called the in-season tournament. in the NBA. And the way,

let me try and explain this in, and in fact, I have NBA.com opened up on my phone so I can try to give a very basic layperson's kind of explanation of this tournament. Basically, in the month of November, the NBA will have regular season games,

but these games will actually be part of a tournament. It's an in-season tournament. And every team has been, put into a different pod, like different groups, like groups of five, right? Where you're put in, okay? You put into a group of five teams and you play the other four teams in your group. And they're just regular season games, but with a twist. At the end of the month of November, you'll have played, you know, four group stage games.

The teams with the, basically they're going to take the teams with the eight best records in these play-in games and you're going to advance to a knockout stage. And then you're going to get down to a semi-final, like four teams. And then they're going to take this thing to Vegas. And the final four teams will go to Vegas in December and they will play semifinals and championships. So every team still plays an 82 game regular season. All these quote-unquote tournament games will count in. your regular season standings, except for the championship game, which will sit outside of the regular season schedule, okay?

Yeah. So people are saying, like, okay, well, what's the point of this? Like, what do you get? Like, you know, what happens here? Like, you, they're creating a new trophy called the NBA Cup. And there's also going to be a prize pool allocated to players where you're going to basically get some more money. And it's nothing more than bragging rights.

but I don't, I'm open to the idea. You're trying to make regular season games in November mean something. You're creating a tournament within the season. You're not adding extra games. You're not doing, I'm okay with this. You're not putting players at extra risk because these are within the confines of an 82 game season. And maybe you'll be more likely in these games to make sure Steph plays. Or, you know, whatever.

So what do you think? What do you think of the idea of this particular plan? I love the idea of an in-season tournament. I'm not, it's not something that's unfamiliar to me as a soccer fan that is used to watching my favorite club go through its, I guess, regular season. And then seeing that there are other tournaments throughout the season that play out. What I would love to see, and I feel as if since the NBA is already in the lead with this, maybe they're the league to do it, make these games mean a little bit more

than just, you know, you're winning a cup. One idea I've always, I've thought of if you were to do an in-season tournament. I don't remember if I've mentioned it on this particular podcast, but I feel you could have a situation where you have the games play out the way that you laid them out just now, and yeah, you can get a trophy,

but what if the winner of that tournament clinched a playoff spot then and there? Yes. I like that. You clinch your playoff spot and then people are going, oh, well, at that point, what does it mean for the rest of your season? At that point, you're basically playing for seating. So say like, say like you make the playoffs and you are like first in the Western conference and then you play out your season, you're essentially going like second or third. Or say like you were nowhere.

This could also be a really weird thing to. Say you were like not in a playoff position. and then you make the play, and then you win that play in thing, and then you make the playoffs, and you play off the rest of the year, and technically you would have been in like 10th or 11th or whatever. You just end up with like the lowest possible seating in that playoff spot.

Just make it mean something. Like, all right, cool. You found a way to make a playoff spot in November before like some team in top spot who was probably going to win the president's trophy, which I get would be a little weird. But at the same time, maybe in theory that team could be the team, clinch that playoff spot. We don't know. Like, I think that's just like a fun in-season thing you could do

to really make it matter. I think you would, I think you'd sell more people on the idea if you found a way to make that tournament matter. And I think in that situation, that's the best way, that's the best idea I can come up with in terms of making it matter more. All right, Julian, like I said, the story of the hockey world took place Sunday evening. Let's find out where Max Bolton was, because I was on the ninth. I was just playing nine holes with some buddies, and I was on the ninth hole. And as we were kind of approaching the green on the ninth hole, that's when I got, somebody in my group was like, Elliot Friedman just tweeted that this to bring it to Detroit

things close. And then Max, you and I got a note via Slack about the same thing. And then I was like, oh, my gosh. So I got to start setting out some tech. So I was golfing. Where was Max Boltman when this deal went down Sunday? I was at the Tigers draft watch party downtown Detroit. I had just come from my beer league game, big win for those interested.

Yes, sir. And yes, I was at the watch party at a bar downtown. I was off this week or was going to be off this week. And I got the, I have pushed notifications off for Elliot's tweets at this time of year. So I saw that and I was like, all right, time to head home. So got home exactly in time. for the final deal to break. Sent a couple of texts in my walk to my car to see what was up and then we got to work.

Yeah. And it's funny because you and I, if we can peel back the curtain a little bit for our listeners, about, I don't know, 10 days ago you sent me a note and you're like, hey, are they going to get this done so they don't ruin our summer? Like, let's just get this deal done, Ottawa, Detroit. This felt like a foregone conclusion for the two of us for, you know, a better part of a week or two. right? Like, when did you feel like this was a, this was a certainty that this was, this was destined to happen? Alex to bring it to Detroit. I guess probably the last few days. When it, resurfaced again, after free agency, you know, my criticism, I think a lot of people's

criticism of what the Red Wings had done was, yeah, you got better, you got deeper, you still didn't get that score that everybody, I think, has felt that they've needed. And in his press conference, Steve Eiserman kind of kept alluding to this idea of like, you know, we'll see what, what else we can do now, you know, usually things, the page turns out for agency, teams start to kind of reassess their roster. We'll see what we can do, you know, this and that. And it didn't have to be DeBrenkitt, but I think once you saw the Brinket's still out there and then, you know, Detroit and DeBricke starts popping up again, you're like, okay,

this is, this is at the five or whatever, yard line. It seemed, you know, and nobody knew for sure. But I think the last few days, it has four. felt like I'm checking my phone, expecting to see that pop up pretty much every time I check it, right? Yeah, but like what's cool about, I mean, maybe for depending on which team you're rooting for, but it doesn't seem as if the Red Wings lost that on too much in terms of the deal, with Dominic Kubalik, a conditional first round pick, a few other smaller pieces in the deal as

well, a lot of people, at least on paper, are calling it a win for the Detroit Red Wings. Not to mention, you sign Alex to Brinkett to an AV of 7.875 mil, like you're, you're getting him under $8 million. How did you feel Steve Eiserman made out in terms of the deal and the negotiation on a contract extension? That was my reaction, too. Now, I have to say, Ian, I'm sure you wrote a remarkably similar column one year ago to the one that I filed last night. So I think we all need to be careful as we discuss, you know, just how much, you know, even one edition, no matter who it is can change a franchise's outlook. I do think it puts them, you know, they're an 80 point team last year.

if they can get into the 90s that puts you very much in the playoff race even you know last year it was 92 to get in the year before it was 100 so it can it can vary pretty wildly but i think it it puts them in the chase for the playoffs if nothing else and i think that matters and i i would tend to agree with you julian that i don't think they gave up a ton now we'll see what those picks you know that that pick turns out to be right they have their own and they have boston's and you know ottawa's going to get the later of those two picks. Potentially, and I'm protected in 2025, depending how things go for Boston. But most likely I would say it's a pick probably in the late teens, around 20s, is my guess

of what that's going to end up. Obviously, it's a tough situation for Ottawa in terms of what they had given up for DeBring it a year ago. But I do think there's the potential for that to be a good pick, right? If it's a 17th pick, I don't think it's a terrible outcome or something. First round pick is a first round pick. It is, but it's especially. if it's in the top 20, right?

Like, I think if you're talking about pick 30, you know, you're looking at it a little more sullen. But I don't see that being the outcome for either Detroit or Boston this year. So I think you're probably talking about a pick between 15 and 20 is my guess. Ian, do you think that's fair? I don't know. It depends, right?

Because if you're Detroit, you're going to send the Boston pick, right, to Ottawa. And if Boston finishes where we think they are, I think it's more likely between 20 and 25 or whatever. But you got more faith in the Bruins than I do this year. Well, I don't think they're obviously not going to win at a 60, be at a 65 win pace. But I think that like being around 100 points seems about right for Boston for me.

But regardless, Ottawa took the, you got to look at this in the larger context. Ottawa took the number seven overall pick last year. And they've downgraded that to something in the 20 neighborhood. And for people saying, like Julian saying, hey, a first round pick is a first round pick. Let me just reset what they did. with Matt Duchenne a few years ago because it's awfully similar.

They took what eventually turned out to be the number four overall pick in 2019. So they could have had Byram from Colorado, cider from Detroit, or even Trevor Zegris. They downgraded to 19 when they ended up flipping Duchenne to Columbus. And instead of having one of them, they ended up with Lassie Thompson, who's a little bit more of a project. So I think that there is a tangible difference between picking in the top 10 and picking in the late teens. But what I'm interested in. It really depends on who scouting. It depends on how you develop those players too.

And you're right. Maybe a first round pick is a first round pick isn't the right way to go about it. And it means a little something more depending on which team is in charge. Not even just in terms of placement. Because depending on what organization gets a player at like 17 or 18, depending on their track record, they might have a history of having players pan out at that spot. Totally. And look, Ottawa is the team that when they traded Carlson to San Jose,

no, everyone thought that pick would be in that 20 to 25 range. And then San Jose was so confident, they didn't even top five protect that pick, right? So anyway, these things can turn out differently. Max, I'm interested on Monday morning you had a conversation. You were part of a Zoom press conference, Steve Eisenman, Alex DeBrinke. Alex is a really, he's a quiet guy. He's not a flashy guy. He's not an in-your-face guy.

He's a very, very tethered guy. But I'm curious what was your takeaway? What was some of the things that Alex said to the media about this decision? Because, you know, obviously in Ottawa, there's a lot of people slinging mud at this guy for wanting to leave. I always say, look, the guy, if you're going to applaud Claude Jaroo for coming home, you kind of got to do the same thing for Alex. Alex grew up loving Detroit and all that stuff. So what were your takeaways from chatting with Alex to bring it on Monday? right off the hop he shows up in a in a white and teal pistons hat right the throwback

pistons retro so i think you know that that's probably not a coincidence and um certainly he said i don't think anyone was happier than his his parents was the line you know they'll get to have him close by and also he's got a young child that uh now will be close by to his grandparents and so um you could tell that that it meant a lot to him right he talked about his favorite players growing up he talked about watching the 08 cup run you know it's clear that there are is an emotional pull here for for him and and i think you're right Ian that it is similar to that uh in the in the juror situation i i don't fault the the Ottawa fans for being upset about it's just you kind of have to separate the uh the human element of this from the business element because

you know we when we talk about these picks too like you and i have talked about it like i don't think they probably take marco casper with that pick that that ends up becoming to brinket and so you're not getting a player like that and you know later in the first round a year from now and that is probably the reality here. But, you know, I will say too, I know this isn't what you just asked me, but I do think Dominic Kubolik's going to score 20 goals for them. Like, he is a good player, and he can be a weapon for them. So, like, in the immediate term, I don't think, you know, you did lose some goal scoring talent.

Obviously, the Red Vings get the term. But if he wasn't going to resign, you know, for next year, I do think they got some scoring replacement. And we'll see what they do with the cap space too. But yes, he certainly sounded happy to be back in Detroit. Obviously, he grew up in Farmington Hills and often comes back in the summers. So I think his wife's actually from Southeast Michigan, too. So a lot of things, you know, line up for him there.

What about his favorite players? Because we're in an age now where we're seeing a lot of people that, like, we grew up watching when we were kids, turned into general managers. And like, I wonder if, like, Alex DeBrinke, like, you mentioned the 08 run. I wonder if he was still out of point where, like, he has, like, fond memories of, like, Steve Heisman playing and then like all of a sudden he's his general manager. Yeah, yeah, certainly. I mean, he's aware of the legacy there.

But the guy that he mentioned was Pavel Datsuk as a favorite player growing up. And, you know, no surprise there with how fun Datsuk was. You know, when you think about, would the Brickett would have been what, 12 to 15 years old, right? In that peak window for those. Like that's the, that's the super zone for fandom, right? of when you can be kind of most conscious and emotionally invested in a team. So I don't think it's any surprise to hear Dad Tzuke's name there, but that was the one he mentioned. Yeah.

And I'm curious, and I wrote about this last week, Max, and we've talked about this, you know, when you make a trade within the division, it's a risky situation, especially with a potential game changer like Alex De Brinkett. And I'm wondering how you see the balance of power. And again, Ottawa, it feels like there's another ball in play for Ottawa. like they might do something. So all of this is with a big kind of asterisk. But if you were to try and power rank Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo,

all kind of on the same path. Yeah. Where do you put these three teams now given the Brinket deal? I'd be at Buffalo one still with a bullet. I think I like them actually to threaten 100 points this year. Maybe even pass out. I think they could be this year's New Jersey. and then I think 24 hours ago I had to put Ottawa next and then Detroit I just think you flip those now I think that is the kind of the de brinket what is it called a seesaw or whatever that you know and I think that's kind of what this does but they're close I still think you know both of those teams I would expect to finish somewhere between the high 80s and low 90s and oh boy did that rivalry last year already sizzle this adds a little bit of pepper to the mix doesn't it but but one of them also

wondering too, like those three teams obviously not going at the door. I mean, look at the teams that top of that Atlantic division though. Like Tampa until further notice, I know they play a lot of hockey over the last few years. Like you might still be able to pin them as a playoff team. Maybe not even might. I think it's a little bit more confident than that. Toronto, I know they added some guys. It's a bit wish you watch out how people feel.

Okay. They're likely going to be there too. Florida just made a cup final. And all those guys know how to win now. I know they just made it last year. Are they going to fall off? I'm just wondering, like, who else? Like, I would love to see this scenario where, like, you see Buffalo, Ottawa, Ottawa, and Detroit, like, all making their all good teams.

It's just that I'm curious about the nature of the division and how many of the teams currently at the top right now. I didn't even mention Boston. How many of the teams at the top right now are going to have to fall off for all of those teams to make it in? And I don't think we're going to see a scenario. will all three of those teams Buffalo Auto and Detroit make the playoffs next year or at least all at the same time, at least for another three, four years. And that decline at the top will probably start soon. But I think it's still going to be really tough for Buffalo Auto and Detroit to make a

playoff push. But that's why I think like 100 points for Buffalo. Like I'm still, I could be wrong. They could be this year's New Jersey. You could be absolutely right. Like I think they're likely more of a wildcard team than anything else. I would probably rank it Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa. Yeah.

I think that's the order for me too. My thing with some of the old powers, I know it sounds like we disagree on Boston. I think we are underestimating, though, what losing potentially Bergeron and Creachie does to that. I mean, you still have. I mean, we don't know about that yet. Like, it's still kind of like the door's open for them to come back. It is. But if they do, and I guess maybe I'm operating under the assumption that they're not back. And if that's the case, like you still have an outstanding blue line. You still have an outstanding goaltender, whether you have both of those guys are just one of them or what. And, you, you know, have two of the elite wingers in the NHL, there's no doubt. But like, I really am a believer that

you win down the middle. And if you take out two players of that caliber from the center group, I do think it can drop you considerably. We'll see. I mean, they, they really extended themselves making a push for last year. And we'll see if it comes back to, to haunt them or not. Even Tampa, I look like, right now, Connor Sherry is supposed to be on the second line for that team. And like, you can move some things around, but like, it suddenly becomes a much more top heavy team in Tampa. And if you get the right matchups and you feel like you can do something to that point, Kuturav combo, you know, I'm not going to pick against Tampa. I think you'd be a fool to do it.

But I'm just saying, like, there's a lot of room for shakeup here, especially when you consider the injuries, Florida comes out of that cup run with. I think the division is loaded, but it's also uncertain. Is that a fair way to get it? Yeah. Yeah, I had a great conversation in the spring with John Cooper in Ottawa. and I asked them this exact same question. I said, like, because you guys both know this, if you've ever dealt with John Cooper,

just one of the great insightful quotes in the game. And I said, Ottawa, Detroit, and Buffalo. Like, they're like waiting on the door. And you, Toronto and Boston have been this sort of powerhouse grouping. When do you see this flipping? And he said, look, it could happen next year. And what Koop said was there's going to be one season where it's going to be pure chaos in this division,

where everybody meets in the middle around 95 points. And that's going to be a lot of fun, isn't it? And I'll be honest here. The one team, the one fan base that I, and people in Ottawa aren't going to like me saying this, I feel for Buffalo. Like that fan base to go through a 12-year drought with that passionate fan base, they've been patient, they've been all. I want to see them make the playoffs.

But I want to see Detroit and Ottawa make the playoffs because I think their fan base. bases have been super patient too. But I love the John Cooper theory of we could get one season where everybody meets at 95 points. And that would just be so much fun. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And honestly, Montreal's not as far off as I think some people would like to believe that have just watched, you know, Montreal was in the Stanley Cup finals a few years ago. And, you know, the fan bases that we write for, Ian, are like, okay, it's our turn. And Montreal's not that far behind. So it is going to be really fun. I could see that year that you're describing that with everybody in the in the 90s as as this season. But we'll see. I mean,

it's going to be a fun division. And I don't think it's going to be nearly as stratified as remember two seasons ago where it was clear as day by New Year's who was making the playoffs in that division? So eight teams with 100 points in the East two years ago, right? Yeah. I've forgotten about that. Yeah. Hey, listen, before we let you go, can you fill us in? Last week when we did the show, Julian and I were shocked that Philip Zadip was kind of placed on waivers. And then obviously he cleared waivers. And then that wasn't the end of it.

He was bought out for the purposes of terminating the contract, which you don't see often. Yeah. Can you explain kind of what happened? Why did it not work? And if another team takes a swing at Phillips Zedina, what are they getting here? Yeah, I was surprised by the whole saga too, because a year ago, the Red Wings signed him to a three-year contract. And to me, that says they believe in him.

And they do, actually, from what, from what Steve Weiser and his, told us he he still sees you know potential in philbs sedena um now you square that with the fact that he was willing to just mutually terminate the contract and i think that it obviously tempers the you know but but philbs adena had requested a change of scenery i think he wanted more opportunity i think the red wings maybe felt like um the reason he hadn't didn't get a ton of opportunity last year had more due with with his injuries than you know anything of their uh doing but they kind of grant that request here. He leaves over north of $4 million in salary on the table by terminating his contract,

but he'll get to pick a new spot. And I think I am someone who still believes there's more in Philip Sedina. So if he gets more opportunity in a place like Chicago or maybe he goes to a team that's more of a contender, maybe it is a Boston or a Florida or something like that, Carolina. You know, it wouldn't shock me if he does on. lock and is a 40 point player or something. But, you know, it's the team that gets him, I do think, is getting a player who really wants this.

And I think to leave that much money on the table shows that. It's just been that in the draft, you'll remember this, he was hailed as this can't miss scorer. And he hasn't scored. And he's improved his game in a lot of other ways, but he has not scored, right? He's become more of a 200-foot player. He can, you know, transport the puck for you in transition. But for a guy like that, the point.

have to come and they have it. And I think that's why the opportunity was less than he would have liked ultimately in addition to the injuries. And I think that's going to be the question wherever he goes next. If he, you know, I don't think it's not the question, he can score 20 goals, but it has to happen and it hasn't happened yet. Well, just to follow up on that, from what you've seen of him, why hasn't it happened? What in his game, in terms of that scoring ability has not worked out? What is not translated over to the NHL level for Phillips-Adina? At first, I think it was like a perimeter thing, like he wasn't getting to the hard areas. And then I don't even think that's the case anymore.

And I just can't, I can't handicap it. We've seen moments where the shot does look like it was supposed to look. There are times where he, you know, he misses the net or he, you know, there was kind of a meme in Detroit that like Zadina was cursed or whatever because of some of these chances. But it's at a certain point, it happens so much that it can't just be this unexplainable luck thing, right? So, you know, I wish I had the answer to that question because it's one that, you know, fans have been asking me for two years, two or three years. But I don't know. Like, and I like him. I hope that it works for him wherever he ends up next because I think he's a really good guy.

But it just hasn't happened. And we'll see if it does it at the fresh start. All right. Listen, Max, I really appreciate you doing this. As you mentioned off the top, this trade kind of interrupted the start of your. vacation. So as we let you go, walk us through. What is, what is the summer of Max? In Texas? Well, my fiance is a baseball photographer. So this is the all-star break. So we were just going to kind of lay low, do some home improvement this week. I'll write now this week,

and I'll push that back a week and maybe do a little more of that myself. But it won't be too crazy. We just bought a house. We're playing in a wedding. We don't have, you know, big baller vacation. money at this moment. But I play a lot. I'll play a lot of tennis. I'll play a lot of beer league hockey and playing three nights a week in the summer while I can. And hopefully get on the golf course a couple times, too, if I can, you know, psych myself up mentally for the humiliation that entails. So this isn't a big ball of summer for, for you with all the different things you got going on. A big baller summer. Well, the big baller part was buying the house. And playing the way. There's no doubt. In this economy, big balling is that. But I just mean like,

at, you know, last summer we took a Puerto Rico trip. There won't be anything like that this time around. Yeah. So you mentioned your fiancé is a photographer and shoots baseball. Did she shoot or photograph the combined no hitter? She did. Yeah. How do you guys feel about combined no hitters?

I feel kind of like they're not that exciting. Like I sent a note into a group text with some buddies and I'm like, hey, the Js are on the verge of getting no hit here. It's a combined no header. Nobody wrote back to me in the group. root text. I'm like, ah, that's how everybody feels. It's so much more impressive when like one pitcher doesn't. Like that's what makes it so cool. So I'm wondering if you're a photographer and you're shooting the moment of the combined no hitter, like are you getting the starter who pitched into the seventh inning? Are you getting the guy on the mound who closed it out? Like what?

Yeah. What are you trying to capture there? So there was a few frames of hers. I can nerd out on her work for sure. Yeah. Like it's the. fist pump of the first baseman catching the final out, right? That's a standout shot. And then there's a few of like those, those, it was three pitchers. It was Matt Manning, Jason Foley and Alex Lang. And so she's shooting, you know, their interactions with each other, right? The embraces of these guys who just come by. It was the first one in Tiger's history. And combined no hitters, obviously are rare. Because for a long time, you wouldn't dare take the guy out. But Manning, Manning's had an injury history. And I honestly don't hate the decision to take him out as much as in the moment. I was yelling at my TV. what are you doing? He's at 91 pitches, but he wasn't going to, he wasn't going to be able to get through nine innings. So it's obviously not as cool. But I think, you know, that, you know, yeah, you don't get that perfect frame of the catcher and the pitcher. But there's still a lot of cool interaction stuff. And that is something with team sports, right? That like, you get to share this, this moment now where, you know, at one point it would have all the spotlights on one guy. Yeah. You know, it would have been cool if your, if your fiance slid in one frame of a photo of Jim Joy. just saying safe at first base. Sorry, is that too soon for Detroit fans? No, no, it's not too soon because I don't think we can ever stop hearing about that one in Detroit.

All right, before we turn this into a baseball podcast, we better get out of here. But hey, thanks for this. Tremendous work over the weekend kind of contextualizing the DeBrickett deal, why it kind of starts the accelerates the rebuild in Detroit. check out Max's piece and I'm sure you'll have more now in light of Alex and Steve talking today. Thanks for doing this and enjoy some much, much deserved downtime here in the Wixette. Absolutely. And you too. Take care, guys. See you, dude. All right. Terrific stuff with Max. Just one thought here from Ottawa. And I'm actually curious to get your take on this, Julian.

Because I think sometimes what happens is for Max and for myself, you know, and you probably deal with this with the flames. when you're so, I don't know what the word is, entrenched or whatever, in covering a team, it's hard to step back and see a different perspective. So I kind of feel like the Ottawa part of this deal is not quite complete. Like the way I described it in my column on Monday was, and again, I guess I am turning this into a baseball podcast because I use the baseball analogy. I said, Pierre Dorian didn't strike. out. He didn't hit a home run. I'm going to rule this a ground rule double. This is a ground rule

double. It's kind of like, it's kind of like a mid return. It's like, that's not great. It's not terrible. It's a double. But here's my point, Julian. He's still at the plate. He still got the bat in his hands. And now I want to see what he does with this at bat, meaning is he going to turn a little bit of extra cap space and savings out of the brinket? Is he going to turn that into Thomas Tatar or Teresenko or Travis Kineckney or Scott Lotton or like if he's able like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop here. I'm waiting for the at bat to be done because I don't think it's done. Here's my thinking about that analogy.

I agree with the fact that this could still turn out to be a good move for the sentence if they turn that cap space into somebody. Where I disagree with is you can't say that it's a ground rule double and then pure Dorian still at the plate. I think what you have to say is, is that Pierre Dorian is at second, and he's trying to get that extra space to see if he could do a bit of a steal to third if he's trying to do that. And he's just waiting for another move. He's waiting for someone else to make the hit at bat, make the hit at the bat, so he can run from second all the way down at home. He's not L.E. He's not L.E. de la Cruz, where he can find a way to steal bases all at once.

But like Pierre Dorian, if he gets a, if he gets a nice little bloop single, the third base coaches waving him home. Yeah, wave him home. Dorian, Dorian looked like he got to speed to run from a second. He could do it. Yeah. But anyway, look, it's not a great return for Ottawa, but I just, I want people to understand that when you make a trade like this, your market was limited, right?

Yeah. So look, and I wrote the column today, it doesn't, there doesn't always have to be a bad guy. Like, we're always looking for a scapego, a villain, somebody to blame. and a lot of people have chosen Alex DeBrinke. Some people have chosen Pierre Dorian. My point is, look, De Brinket didn't ask to be traded to Ottawa. No. He didn't demand to trade out of Ottawa.

No. He was just doing what he was contractually protected by, which was he had one year left. He could have handpicked his destination next year. He opted to go to Detroit. Takes a four-year deal. Some people are saying this blew up in his face. I don't think so. He'll be a UFA again at 29.

He can monetize himself again. If he returns to being a 35 goal score, if he scores 100 goals for Detroit in the next three years, I think he'll be okay. I think it'll be okay. Yeah. You know, it's funny, like, while we were talking to Max and you guys were talking about, you know,

when is this deal going to happen? So you can go about your summer plans, I kind of sat back a little envious because I cover a team that maybe was supposed to be active on the trade market. And right now they're just kind of standing pat. And the longer this goes on, the more you have to worry about, oh,

what is, am I, am I going to be at a cottage up north? And then that's when the trade of Noah Haniff into, I don't know, Florida for some piece, is that when is that going to happen? Like, you know, are you going to be at my house on Thursday night

for an athletic, get together, Athletic Hockey Show podcast Barbecue, where my two podcast go host, Julian McKenzie, Sean McAdo, they're going to come to my backyard, along with our editor extraordinaire, Sarah Giamer.

Have I got to break my laptop and write the column? And knowing my editor is on vacation, we're going to have to rely on S.J. Mott Mayer, who will also be at this party? Yeah, she can edit right there on the patio. She can just edit. edit this. By the way, Julian's coming to my house this week.

Yes, I am. I need to know Julian McKenzie's drink request. Oh, man, a drink request? Yeah, what's your drink request? Before we wrap up this podcast. I need to know. Okay, I need me a rum and coke is fine, man. And it didn't have to be white rum spice from dead man.

Just a rum and coke. Rum and coke is simple enough. Really? How juice you got soda is fine. but like if you if you ask me for for something special, I'll take a rum and coke. That's fine. That's okay. It's not a big deal.

Okay. I'm a simple man with drinks, man. Okay. There we go. Well, put you down for a rum and coke. That seems very basic. That doesn't,

I thought you would have had some sort of. I don't think you would have been down to like, like it's rum and coke. I don't know if you would have been, like, if I'd said rum and Red Bull, you might have been like, okay, what the hell are you on? You ever had a rum and red bull?

I've had vodka Red Bull. Okay. I've had rum and red bull. Really? Yeah, there's a big song by Beanie Man, and I forget what the other artist is, but it's a big, like, dance hall song, rum and red bull. And from that, I just decided rum and red bull's going to be my thing.

But I want to behave myself in front of my coworkers. So a Roe of Coke is going to keep me, is going to keep me on the path of, you know, leased revelry and bacchanal. How did they not name that drink rumming with the bulls? Rumming with the bulls. Would have been perfect. Because rumming, if you hear the song,

Rumming Red Bull, and you hear how catchy it is, rumming with the Bulls ain't going to do to see it. It's not going to do it. It's a completely different song, if you called it Rumming with the Bulls. Rumbing with the Bulls. And are you going to be able, when you come to Ottawa,

are you going to be able to see Ottawa native? Mackenzie Weeger at any point here. I would love to if they make themselves available. That'd be pretty fun. Okay. I actually like talking to McKenzie Weger last season in Calgary. And he comes across as a very friendly person.

I'll put that out there about McKenzie Week. Invite him to this barbecue. We need to turn this into a way. If you happen to listen to the Fleta Cockey Show, you have an open invite to Ian Mendez's house. Yeah. We should do one of these things. with like listeners one day. Yeah.

I think so. I feel like in Ottawa, if you, you could do this. If you had like an open athletic barbecue where you have you, Sean McIndoo, SJ,

I'm pretty sure if you get maybe some of Montreal's two hours away, you can get like Arp and Basu to pull up to but then you open it up to like subscribers or just general fans of yours. People would pull up. You're like, you're like almost like the mayor of Ottawa. Like people,

you're like the most likable person in the market and I think you could get enough people to like pull up and and and celebrate with you and have a barbecue. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Easily. Oh, man. Okay. I'm in. I'm in. We should be doing this. I should be doing a athletic barbecue. You should do an athletic barbecue. Do it like like and then like now's around the time when you would do it like early July. Damn it. We should have done this. We should have planned this out with you and we could have done this. But you know what? You know what if what if like, what if like I get like a homie of mine to crash? Like, and they're like a big hockey fan. That might work. Yeah.

I bet. We should or you know, we should. We should have put this at. We should have had a contest for listeners who live in Ottawa. Come and join our barbecue. Give us. Give us why you would be the perfect barbecue guest to join us. And boom.

We'll hook you up. Dog. We could have done like a whole like trivia thing or like, like, um, like, eat. Email the athletic hockey show email and like tell us your favorite Ian Mendez moment or your favorite Ian Mendez article. It could be a moment because you could pull up all of his like sports that stuff or just TV stuff or the or the CSN radio stuff or just any of it. Just anything Ian Mendez like the best Ian Mendez. But that seems awfully self like that seems. But that's the whole point.

It's your house. It's your barbecue. it's your thing. Like you, this is the opportunity for you to make it about yourself. I guess. Look, before we wrap this up to, speaking of game, you said maybe do some trivia. Are you into Puckdoku? Yo, I just got into Puck Doku this weekend.

Yes. So for the, explain it because I started playing the Immaculate Grid in baseball. And I loved it. I really loved it. I was like, man, when is somebody going to do a hockey version? Sure enough. So can you explain, Julian, to our listeners, this is a great kind of time-stealing game called Puckdoku? Can you explain it to them a little bit?

As best as I can, every day you start off with this grid. And on, I guess, like the X and the Y-I axis, you'll have these different teams for each one. And basically the goal is, is at least for like a good two-thirds of that grid, you're finding players who have played for two franchises. So say, for example, there's like one row, one kind of area where like the top part is like Chicago and on the left-hand side you see the Leafs. Like you would have to find someone who has played for the Leafs and Chicago. And normally at the column at the very end, there's like, oh, it's not necessarily a team. it's like a distinct either attribute or something they've done.

So like for example, today's puck doku, I believe on the far right side, you have to pull up a 40 goal score. Like I'll try to look at who did well today. So you basically have to find, like today's grid. You need like a player who's played for the avalanche

and the Leafs. So like Nazim Kadri, like Nazim Kadri would come to mind right away. You could do that. But another thing about that too, I think you get a better score the more unique the more unique the player is.

So John Michael Liles. Yeah, exactly. Like someone extremely obscure and I think at the end of it you get like a uniqueness score. Yes. And I think the lower the score is the better because I've realized the last two times

I've played the score like gets higher and I don't know if I've used this to show the most unique players. But like the first time I did, I got like a pretty low score. But one thing I will warn people about, because I learned this today, in terms of finding players who have played for like the same two, like these two franchises, they've actually had to have played at least one game.

Like one example I could bring up for today's Puck Dooku, which I don't know if it's a spoiler or not to do it. There's one where you need a player who's played for Colorado and for Ottawa. And I tried to be sneaky and I tried to pick Shane Bowers. But Shane Bowers never played a game for the game. Ottawa Senate. No. Nope.

So that wouldn't have worked. If you were to do Leafs and Stars, for example, and you were to put in Max Domi, he's never played a game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's only signed that one year deal with the lease, but he has never actually played for them. So you can't, you have to pick someone who's actually played a game for the franchise, and it's not sufficient that they were in the franchise at any point. Yeah.

That they were just in the franchise. Just like, because you have guys who get flipped to one team and then they get flipped to like another team or something. Like you wouldn't put Ryan O'Reilly for Minnesota, St. Louis. But you would put Ryan O'Reilly for Toronto, Colorado. You would. You could easily do that. Could. Yeah. Like I said, John Michael Lyles would be the sneaky one there with that. Yeah. Probably not a ton of people would have done. Again, exactly. And the more like, like, the other day I used like Marius Tercoski as like one like guess for you could probably. and Islanders. Habs and Bruins. Habs and Bruins. I went Matt Smasland with that old school.

Like the more obscure, the better you'll come out of that game. Yeah. And again, the game is Puck Doku, P-U-C-K-D-O-K-U. Yes. In case you're wondering what we're talking about, Puck-Doku, I promise you, if you love Random Trivia, Relate to Hockey, you'll love this game. It's tailor-made for hockey fans. like us. All right. See, like I said, we weren't sure. We were we going to do 20 minutes, 40 minutes, and now we did about an hour here.

It was great though. Max Boltman dropped by, got to the bottom of the brinket. Talked about NBA in-season tournaments and now it could apply to the NHL. New season tournaments. Julian's a rum and coke guy. It's funny. My dad is apparently not a Roman Coke person. Like, those things actually make him sick. Really?

Is it because usually when drinks make you sick, it's because you, maybe you had too many one time? My dad's not like that. My dad's not one of those people like pounding a bunch of drinks and getting sick. Like he takes his time and he enjoys himself. He's very much a soul. Like he's someone who like he's not going to like drink one drink a whole night. But like he he takes his time.

He's not like one of those like frat boys who's out here throwing up on the streets and whatever. He takes his time. But just with Roman Coke, he just it never took to him. I've reached the point of my life. You're going to come here. You're going to find a cooler with some Michelob Ultras. I'm at that stage of my life.

Oh my. I'm not. I don't even a beer guy. I've never had a Mickelope Ultra. Oh, dang, we're going to have a Mikalop Ultra together. Yeah. That's what we're going to do coming up. All right.

We want to thank everybody. This was a great, real fun hour. Look, in the middle of July, sometimes you don't have a lot of news, but we did. Sometimes. Yeah. We want to thank everybody for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and a review.

We appreciate that. You can follow us on YouTube as well. YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show right now when you're subscribed to the athletic. It's $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.