The Athletic Hockey Show - Sidney Crosby scores number 500, Jack Eichel to make his Vegas debut tonight and trade deadline chips are falling into place

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

This week on the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Jesse Granger and Sara Civian welcome back Sean Shapiro, The Athletic's sports business writer to the roundtable. The crew stick taps the career of Sidney Crosby who scored his 500th NHL goal in the Penguins win over the Flyers on Tuesday night. Jesse, Sara and Sean look forward to Jack Eichel's Vegas Golden Knights debut with Mark Stone being placed on LTI to accommodate the new Knights forward and ask should there be a salary cap in the playoffs?Plus we discuss the red hot season for the Colorado Avalanche, look ahead to the Gold Medal game between Canada and the United States in women's hockey at the Beijing Olympics, and bemoan the States and Canada being eliminated in men's hockey before the medal round.With the trade deadline now 5 weeks out, Sara, Jesse and Sean look ahead to the trade deadline, focusing in on the sellers in Philadelphia, Buffalo Columbus and New Jersey and the buyers in Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Florida, Carolina and Colorado. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I'm Jesse Granger in Vegas, filling in for Rob Pizzo, who has one more week of Olympic duty for the CBC until he returns. I am eagerly awaiting Rob's return. We miss Rob, but he's doing a great job for the CBC in the Olympics. I'm here with Sarah Sivian in Raleigh, and we had so much fun with him last week. We brought him back for another show. Our special guest host, Sean Shapiro, Sports Business Reporter for the Athletic. How's it going, Sarah? No, Canada in the finals for Rob, that's a bummer, but I'm doing great. I mean, there is Canada in the women's finals, so he'll cover the hell out of that. How are you, Sean?

I'm good, I'm good. I guess I'm the replacement level exact. Like we always talk about like replacement level things. I think I'm the exact replacement level Sean within the athletic because now there's, if I don't, I mean, I guess our producer Jeff would know the better, or I believe the other Sean's already are on here full time. And so I'm the replacement level, Sean. So I'm going to go off with that from now on.

So many shons. Awesome. Today we're going to discuss Sidney Crosby, 500th goal. Not bad for a kid we thought was going to have his career shut by concussions. Jack Eichol is making his big debut in Vegas. I'll be at T-Mobile Arena tonight. They take on the avalanche. That's going to be excited.

We're going to talk about the avalanche who have been unbelievable lately. And then we're going to talk some Olympics. Obviously, Sarah alluding to some disappointment for Canada and U.S. in the men's. but we've got an exciting game for the women tonight. And Sweden, shutting out Canada this morning was a little strange. I don't think we were expecting that. But we're also going to get into some trade deadline stuff, which I know everybody's excited about this time of year.

Those rumors are starting to fly. It's been really fun. But we're going to start with Sidney Crosby. Does he ever cease to amaze you, Sarah? No, never. And there's always these cult stories about him, too, that he goes above and beyond for people behind the scenes. things like that. Gotta love it. But Malkin commented on his, on his Instagram post saying, like,

nice assists at Malkin. So the people along the way, I love the graphic that the penguins put up that was like all the people that have assisted. It's kind of a lot of random people with one assist, but then it's like Malkin and Lattang with a hundred. So that's pretty cool. He's been so ridiculous this year. Obviously, the goal was big. But also, I saw a tweet from Jesse Marshall today that said He has created more shots off of his passes than anyone in the league this year, except for Connor McDavid and Nikita Kutrov. So pretty good company. We know that it is, yeah, getting a little up there at age.

He's not producing maybe the same number of goals and stuff, but he's still creating a ton of offense. What's impressed you most about him this year, Sean? Yeah, I mean, I think when we talk about, and this is, I'm going to talk a little bigger picture than just this season, when you talk about hitting 500 goals and everything like that, one of the telling things to me is kind of the unfortunate thing. we shouldn't be talking about 500 goals for Cindy Crosby right now.

We should be at the spot where he should be at 600. Honestly, like, just you look at the time in his career that has been lost because of the concussions and the times where the half of seasons that were lost for both work stoppage related things and COVID and everything like that. Like, it's, it's great. It's one of those like kind of benchmark numbers that it's a wonderful thing to be discussing about Sidney Crosby. But at the same time when you talk about a career where we should be talking about

Sidney Crosby at 600 goals right now, just if based off where his career should have been based off when you look at all the extra circumstances that kind of limited to hitting this number this late in his career, which is a huge compliment to who he is as a player. And I mean, he's still one of the best players in the world throughout his entire career. You could never really go and you could really never go and make an argument. He wasn't one of the top three players in the world each throughout his entire career. And there's just there's things about Crosby. like Sarah mentioned some of the off-ice stuff where you hear some of these like kind of legendary things about it.

But there's other little things that I think have just become so normal Sydney Crosby things that we kind of underappreciate. I think one of the things, I can't remember who told it to me, but at one point someone was like, Sidney Crosby's backhand shot is better than 90% of the league's forehand. Like just like little things like that we just have come to take for granted. And it's, I think it's these, this, this marker 500 is a nice way to stop and realize this is greatness. this is one of the greatest players of all time we're watching. And I think sometimes we kind of forget about that. We get jaded about that and kind of don't realize what he's done throughout his career.

And obviously what he's doing this season is just exclamatory at top of all. Yeah, I think we talk. There are a lot of players that maybe get the individual accolades, but they don't get the team success with Crosby. He definitely wouldn't trade what he's had to have 600 goals right now. Like for me, when I think of Sidney Crosby, I think of just winning. Like that's what that guy has. He's won everything.

the Olympic gold and he scored the huge goal. Obviously three Stanley Cups and he's just, he has, he's done it all. Like there are some guys where you're late in your career, you're thinking like, oh, man, he just needs this to like complete that thing. Crosby has just done everything he can possibly do. Like you said, the individual goal accolades are not, like his numbers aren't where a player that's as good as he is should be at this point. But he's been through a lot in terms of like the, like you said, the injuries, but then also just the, The NHL, like during, like, he really is in that, like, his career has kind of spanned the, the craziness of the lockout and the COVID seasons and all the, like, there have been

so many things that have cut him short. Yeah, I mean, he, you look at, if you were ever to, like, pick one player to encapsulate an era, like, Sidney Crosby is the player that encapsulates the salary cap era. We literally had to have a draft lottery that everyone had a chance in because there was no season his draft. Right. Like, like, he is, he is the encapsulation. of the salary cap era, both good and bad and how it's impacted him.

Like, it's, like, if you were to kind of like pick a one player from various eras or whatever to like, oh, this, this guy will use to look at this era. Like, Sidney Crosby would be the 2005 forward player until he's still going. So. Yeah. Speaking of the salary cap era, here in Vegas, there are some interesting salary caps gymnastics going on. Kelly McCriman announced a couple days ago that Jack Ico would be making his debut in Las Vegas tonight against Colorado Avalanche.

I have never been this pumped for a regular season game, I don't think. It's the top two teams in the West. They played in the playoffs last year. And obviously Jack Ikel just spices it up a little bit more. But along with the announcement that Jack Icoe would be playing tonight, Kelly McCrimand also announced that Captain Mark Stone has been placed on the long-term injured reserve with a back injury. as I guess the Golden Knights guy. I'll start by laying some foundation here.

I think the hockey world immediately, at least according to my Twitter mentions, immediately thought that this back injury is completely made up. And that is not the case. I think it's a little more, this is a little more complicated than people want to, I guess, go into on social media. Mark Stone's back is clearly messed up. He's been dealing with this since the playoffs last year. He didn't look himself in the playoffs last year.

I asked him multiple times, are you injured? He obviously said no, because that's what hockey players do. But he was clearly dealing with something. He goes into this season. It was harping him in the off season. He goes into this year. He only made it one game into the season. And then his back locked up and he had to miss a month. He has tried to come back and he's had to go back out of the lineup four different times for this back injury. So both can be true. Mark Stone's back can be actually injured. And a couple months off could be the best thing that could possibly happen to Mark Stone. Having said that, if Jack I, didn't exist. If the salary cap didn't exist, I doubt he'd be missing these two months. He'd probably be continuing to play through it. Like he has been through this season. So we'll start with Sarah. When you saw the news like everyone did that Mark Stone is conveniently placed on LTIR the moment Jack Eichel's ready to return. What did you think? Yeah, no, exactly your point there. And that's exactly how I felt about Kuturov, too, even talking with Joe Smith. It was kind of like people don't want nuance in any of their situations when this is a nuanced situation and there are rules that you

can get around and if you can use the rules to your advantage and nobody's stopping you, then why wouldn't you? You would want your team to do this if it was your team. And a guy like Mark Stone and a captain like Mark Stone is going to be, like have to forcefully be put on IR. Like unfortunately, sometimes that's kind of the follies of being an NHL player. And that's like what people pride NHL players on, like playing through injury. So it's really impossible to say, unless you're there and you're his doctor, what the extent of his back injury is. And if they're going to milk it a little bit, I mean, I would do that if I was a GM or an owner. I don't know, Sean.

What are your thoughts? You're interesting as the business standpoint here. Well, I mean, this is, I don't have an issue with it because the league has made it. This is completely allowed. Chicago did this first with Patrick Kane, with the Patrick Kane injury the year. They won the one in the cup. And I'm going to not say the year because I forget which of the three cups. It is that they won.

Couch this happened with Coochorov. I mean, this is one of the, the CBA is out there, and essentially it's every single team's job. They have capologists for a reason to essentially go through and find the loopholes. Every single team is trying to do it. And if your team is not using them when they are available to you, that's on you. Like if the Golden Knights, we talked last week, like, oh, well, should they trade, do you trade Riley Smith? do you trade a combination of Matias Yanmark and whoever. Like, well, if you can not do that, like, find a loophole.

Like, it's, I have no issue with doing it. It becomes, it just becomes an issue of, it becomes a question of, and I don't think you can trade change, ever change the rules in the middle of the season. Like, it's, it's something where this doesn't fall, from my perspective, fall on Vegas doing anything wrong. This falls on the league and its teams have essentially signed off on. Yeah, it may seem. frustrating, but if my team was in that spot, I'd want to do it. So I'm not going to go, like,

I'm not, no other GM is going to say, is going to vote against this because they're, they may be the one that needs to do it next year. And the other thing that's just, we talk about the nuance of this. And you talk about the, I think nuance and optics are two important things for this. To me, I don't have an issue with it because I think, honestly, we talk all about players needing their health and focusing on that. So we're talking about a guy coming back who everyone, six months ago was fighting for it. We need to support Jack Eichael. We'll need to support Jack Eichael. Rightfully so. That doesn't mean we can now throw out Mark Stone's health. Like I think it's, I think we need to remember that. If we're going to go and say, everyone's like, oh, well, Jack Eichael's

health is important. Mark Stone's health is also important. So Mark Stone is taking the time to get his back right. I'm all for that. Yeah. Optically, I think I have a bit of an issue with Vegas still having him playing the All-Star game, having him, having him out on the Bellagio fountains for things like, like for me, it's just kind of more, and I know he's not going to get hurt in the All-Star game. I just kind of have more of the optic issue of you can have Mark Stone take the time off, and I'm fine with that. It's just the optics of using him in the All-Stra, having to go to the All-Star game still, having, announcing it literally the day the Ikel comes back. Like, it's, to me,

it's just kind of being a little bit of PR and optic-y of doing it the right way. And then the other thing that I think is a perfect encapsulation of it that's just And this is something, the only reason Vegas, and the only reason teams are able to do this The only reason Vegas is able to do it And the only reason Tampa was able to do it, Chicago was able to do it is they're good enough to know

They're in the playoffs right now Without the guy. If you are good, if you built the team Good enough to play almost, I mean what Vegas still has What 35 games left? 34, yeah. Yeah, yeah, to play almost a third of the seat longer, but my math is terrible right now.

40% of the season without your best player, you know what? You did a damn good job as a GM in building your roster. Cudos to you. Like, how many other teams right now, like everyone's like, oh, well, we could, I always laugh when people are like, oh, well, let's throw our guy on IR and get them back. Like, all right, well, if your team's in the bubble,

you're not, if your team's like on the bubble, you're not getting into playoffs without that guy. So I have no issue with it. It's just it comes down to the bigger question of should the league allow it? I think at the end of the end of the day, the question is not do you do it in the regular season. I think the question becomes, should we have a salary cap in the playoffs? That to me is the bigger discussion, the rightful

discussion to have. Should there be a salary cap in the playoffs? I know there's pros and cons to each. Should there be some sort of modified system of cap in the playoffs? That's to me where this conversation should go, not whether teams can use LTIR to get players into lineups and stuff like that, because player health to me, I don't want us to get to the point where we're picking and pulling at different players' health. in various ways when Mark Stone's back is bad and we want it to be healthy. It's best for the NHL. It's best for all of us. We get to see a healthy Mark Stone. That makes hockey better for all of us. So I think the question becomes, should we have a cap in the playoffs? How do we figure

that out going forward? What's the best solution there? Because I think there should be some form of that. Yeah, the idea that I've seen tossed around, like I agree that you can't get rid of LTIR. You can't do that. And I don't think you can enforce a hard salary cap in the playoffs also just because of Black Aces and players signing pro contracts and stuff like that. So the idea that I saw through around that I really liked was you can go, you can have as much of a cap hit on your roster as you want in the playoffs. But your 23-man game day roster has to be under the 81 and a half or whatever that is for that season, meaning you can have all these guys and like they can be on your roster and you're

not going to have to wave them and you can like you're not going to have to lose players because of cap space. But when you ice a team, you're going to. have to make decisions, pull a guy out of the lineup, put a guy into the lineup based off of you have to stay under that cap. I think that's kind of an easy way to find a happy medium and prevent something like this. I'm fine with that. Either that or go with, I could also be up for the idea of putting a luxury tax on the playoffs where you can be like, okay, hey, regular season, salary caps is 80 to say it's an 82.5 year or whatever. And like, okay, well, once we go to the

playoffs, we realize there's going to be guys who got signed and stuff like that. Okay. So we, we we are naturally going to raise the salary cap to $85 million just for the playoffs. I'm just making a number right now. But anyway, if you go over $85 at all, there's a luxury tax. You have to pay back that goes, that gets either rev shared or goes to hockey related. Something like that where I could be fine with either of those systems. It's just something where just something to kind of check it, right? Just to make sure it's getting used the right way and kind of gets to the point where we don't have.

teams who lose to these teams who are like, oh, well, they cheated or whatever. They didn't cheat. They're playing by the rules. It's just the rules are kind of broken. Yeah. And tonight's game I mentioned, I'm so excited for it. Obviously, Jack Eichols is a huge reason. But the Avalanche are playing out of their minds right now. I think they've won 33 of their last, or sorry, 30 of their last 34 games, something like that. They are on fire right now. They're leading the NHL with 72 points in 47 games. They're ahead of the Panthers. And they're playing the team that knocked them out of the playoffs last year in the Vegas Golden Knights. And that series, when I remember back to it, that was some of the best hockey I've ever seen.

This game should be fun tonight. Sarah, what have you seen from the avalanche this year? I guess what put into perspective how ridiculous this streak that they're on is in a sport like hockey where it's so hard to win every night. I have two words, Kail McCar. And then obviously the rest of the deaths. But I have so much fun watching that kid. I feel like he has so much potential that he's in like,

just starting to realize it and watching him do things every night is very, very fun. And I think it says a lot that even when McKinnon isn't scoring as much as he has in the past, like, other people are picking up slack. That's scary for the rest of the league in the playoffs. Yeah, when I watch their defensemen, man, they just, they turn the play around so quickly. Like Gerard and Taves and McCar, to me, that's what stands out with the Aves is like, you've got the puck in their zone and you feel kind of safe. But then like the moment the puck's, switch his hands. It's a two-on-one the other way.

Like the defensemen just switch play so quickly. John? Yeah. And it's a team that was allowed to go, and I'm not sure what the, what kind of leads to all of this, but you stop and you think about it. It's a team that was allowed to go through the process of going from bad to good, right? Like oftentimes we always talk about like there's teams where we want to see, like, the avalanche is a story that patients can pay off and patients with a coach can pay off too.

like Jared Bednar was the coach of one of the, Jared Bednar, it was either his first or second season. I did some one of the facts with me. The Avalanche had one of the worst records in NHL history. He kept his job. I know he was a new coach, but Jared Bednar was allowed to be with this group from that very rough beginning. And obviously not many guys are still around, but the leadership chorus stuck around and still been in there with the McKinnons and the Landisogs and everything like that. And I think that's another part of it too, where this is a group that how many times do we talk about good teams where we're like, oh, they haven't faced their adversity yet. When are they going to face their adversity? Like everyone's like with Tampa Bay, everyone's like, oh, well, they needed

to get swept by the blue jackets for them to go all the way to the cup final. Like, California, like Nathan McKinnon has dealt with adversity. He was on some of the worst hockey teams I've ever seen. As someone who covered that division closely when I was in Dallas, I remember times where it would be, there would be nights where it was Dallas, Colorado, and it would be Nathan McKinnon, like, dragging 19 other skaters like a parachute behind him and like a one-on- one duel with Carrey Latinan. That's that's that's one of my memories of Nathan McKinnon. And so I think this Colorado team from their leadership group and from their coaching and everything like that, they have gone through kind of the proper demolition and rebuild. And I think that that just kind

of goes into all of it. And I think that goes a long way. And obviously like a guy like McCar, he's been, he didn't, he wasn't there when they were, when they were terrible, but he, the reason he was there was because they were terrible. And, and he's been a guy who came in right away and has stepped into a group that was, that really allowed him to flourish. It's, it's like an overall long-term success story when I look at Colorado with how things have gone. And if they do win the cup this year or next year or whatever, it's, you kind of stop and you have to look back and think, okay, how did that, how did we get from last place in the NHL to here in why? was that successful. And I'm sure many other teams will be like, okay, well, let's look at that.

Like, I think it's a long-term success story when you look at Colorado and it's not just a this season thing. This season, just kind of the fruits of the labor of it. Yeah, I think that's part of what makes this matchup so fascinating for me. Like all those things you just said, the long-term building, the going through the struggles, drafting well, developing those players, none of that happened in Vegas. Like absolutely none of it. There was no struggles. There were no high draft picks. There were no, there's no development has happened. It's all just acquisition. It's like the two most opposite ways to build a hockey team, but yet it's resulted in like the two, two of the best hockey teams in the NHL. And it's going to be fun, like I said, it's going to be

fun tonight to see what they can do. And it's going to be fun to see what happens. It sure feels, the Calgary Flames have a lot to say about it, but it sure feels like these teams are on a collision course for another awesome playoff series. We can only hope. Two teams that seemed like they were on a collision course for each other, but both fell short. The U.S. men's and Canadian men's Olympic teams both go out in hockey last night for the U.S. and early this morning for the Canadian team. They were shut out by Sweden 2 to nothing. We do have a U.S. versus Canada women's gold final tonight at 1120 Eastern Time, 8.20 on the Pacific

coast for everyone out here in Vegas or California. Sarah, to you, what is the, I guess, the story of these Olympics in hockey. Are you pumped for the women's tonight? Are you disappointed? We don't get to see Canada, U.S. and the men. What do you think? Well, to be honest with you, I was just waiting for Canada, U.S. women's this whole time. Like, that's the high-quality hockey that I have been looking forward to.

Obviously, the NHL wasn't allowed to go to the Olympics. And they, I think it wouldn't have been as big of a problem if it was like they had sooner notice that that wasn't going to happen. but it's like people are trying to prepare, and then they have to kind of put together a team, and it wasn't great. Like, I didn't expect, I mean, I didn't really expect a candidate U.S. men's final, and I'm just happy for my boy, Lucas Walmart. He's had five goals and four games for Sweden, and he was on the Keynes for a while.

Just nicest, funniest guy you could ask for, and I hope he gets an NHL contract out of this because he deserves it. Sean, they didn't put Maddie Baneers out there in the shootout. I was blown away that they didn't put him out there. Brendan Bresson was the first one. And then he actually put it together a pretty good move. And then the moves in the shootout for the U.S. last night were just baffling. Like they'd never tried one before my life. And you've got Maddie Baneer sitting there on the bench.

Like, what are you doing? Well, I mean, it's, yes, Madi Baneers didn't shoot. But still, shout out to our Fed Murat. Nothing tops Gretzky not shooting in 98 still. That is still the high bar for not sending a guy out in a shooting. out in the Olympics. For me, the Olympics, the men's tournament, it's, it's been like any world championship for me, right? Like, it's played in a place where the time zones don't really align, where I'm not watching it in prime time, and it's popcorn viewing for me in the background.

Like, I'm watching it, like, I'll have it on the TV in my office, or I'll have it on the TV while I'm doing the dishes or something like that. And I don't really, I don't really care who wins or loses either way. It's just like how I view the world championships. You see a couple names. You're like, oh, hey, that guy still plays or this guy's playing for that country, that's cool. But that's how I viewed the men's tournament. That's how I viewed the men's tournament last time there was NHL players. And it's not a best on best tournament. It's cool when you see things. Like, I'm sure everyone's seen the Maroslav Chatan clip where of how Slovakia, how much that meant to Slovakia to win that game. And you see the clip of the kids celebrating, like,

that's super cool to me. Like that, that's cool. It's cool to see where it means stuff to people. but to me from the perspective, it's just like any world championship just held in February. That's how the men's tournament felt to me, where the women's tournament is completely different.

The women's tournament is, this is the best we're going to get of women's hockey. This is, tonight's game, is the game where you stop and you plan your time around it. Like, I was talking to my wife about it this morning. Like, to me,

the note of a really good sporting event is the one where you remember where you were what had happened. And so, like, I remember exactly when the United States beat Canada in 2018, I remember being, I had just filed a story in the Honda Center press box in Anaheim and was about five minutes left in the third period

and I just sat in the Honda Center press box and watched the last five minutes of the third period. I watched overtime and watched the shootout just in the Honda Center press box. Just like, that to me is the mark of a great sporting event. You remember where you were when it happened. And that's what I expect USA Canada to be. And that's what this, this woman,

Nothing about the men's tournament I cared about at all on that front. So I'm thrilled to watch the game tonight, even though it's going to be really late for me as someone who has to get up early in the morning with small children, but I'm going to make it. So it's going to be, I'm really looking forward to the game tonight. Jesse, I'm jealous of your 8-10 start time. So that's amazing. Pacific time is amazing for this. So good for you. It is.

I remember that game also. I was in the T-Mobile Arena press workroom downstairs. We had just finished the press conference. And it was the flames that had played the Golden Knights because we had like a bunch of Canadian media that had come down from Calgary for the game. So we're all sitting there watching it on our phones. And like just the joint reaction from half the room is Canadian. Half the room was American. It was great.

Sarah, how pumped are you for this game tonight? As Sean mentioned, this is truly best on best. Like this is the highlight of these Olympics for hockey. It literally never disappoints. Like the amount of times these women have played each other and it has been a show. every time. And they're all hyped. I'm looking at the Colts and I'm so excited. And I will say on the men's side, there were a few bizarre personnel decisions. Like Levi, the goaltender, didn't play once. Like there, I feel like there could have been situations where he would play

and maybe steal a win. Like you've got to try it at least. It was just kind of weird. Yeah. I thought Straussman was good though. That's a great name. Straussman. What a name. I thought he played well. He's a guy who Straussman will probably. He's a guy who Straussman will probably get an initial contract out of this. He's a guy who I thought, I was kind of surprised he didn't get an initial contract out of Michigan out of his junior year and then the plane in Sweden. Obviously, I'm pretty sure he'll finish his SHL season, but he's a guy who, if you're a team who's looking at goaltending depth, a 1B guy for next year, I would put him, I would definitely be interested in that. So he's, he's a guy who I think may have elevated his, that's a good

story about it. That is one good story out of the men's sign. There's people who didn't get opportunity before that maybe we'll see back in the NHL game because of it. Lucas Walmart. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a fun night of hockey tonight. Obviously, Vegas, Colorado leading right into that women's gold medal game.

That's going to be a lot of fun. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the trade deadline. That is, I guess, what we're leading into the highlight of this NHL season. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're starting to see the rumors kick up. We're going to talk about quite a few of them when we get back. All right. So it looked like the flames kind of kicked off the NHL trade deadline quite a bit early when they made a trade for Tyler Tofoli. adding a really good player to an already good team.

I just got a good viewing of them. They spanked the Golden Knight 6-0-0 the other night, and that was before adding Tyler Tofoli. There is a bunch of... It seems like that kind of kick-started things. It feels like all the GMs were sort of kind of sitting and waiting, and we were all kind of just in wait mode. Then that To Foley deal happens,

and suddenly in the last couple days, we've seen a million deals that could be possibly talked about. Sarah, when you see, I guess a guy like Tyler. To me, to me, Calgary is a team built of like B plus players. Like they don't have any superstar like elite players, but they've just got so many guys that are just good, really good players and they have so much depth. What do you look at when you see the flames? And then I guess what do you think they're adding in Tyler Toffoli? I love Tofoli. I think that's a perfect acquisition for them, especially his deal is insane. And you saw that goal he scored.

It was like the worst skating, but he made it work. I just love that. I think him and Godreau will be a really good kind of one-two punch for them. That will elevate. Like, they needed a goal score, and I feel like that really rounds them out. And that was a great deal. And sometimes as a GM, not that I'm a GM, but you have to be the one to make the first punch. Like, I do feel in the NHL, it's more of a waiting game than in any other league. And it's kind of like, make a move.

Sean, what do you think? Do you think we're overlooking Calgary? Because I feel like we talk about Colorado and Vegas so much in the West. I think that Calgary team is definitely Vegas in Colorado we talk about because they've got more of the higher profile they've got some of the bigger names

they've been a little bit more active in recent things obviously to fully deal withstanding but Calgary's a team you could easily come out of the west I could definitely see Calgary coming out of West I could see them in the final and everything like that so I think we're just they're just not as glitzy to use kind to they're not as glitzy as Vegas or Colorado.

Like we, I think the other reason we all kind of want Vegas or Colorado in the final is because we all like like, I want Colorado or Vegas versus Florida in the final simply because the NHL is a copycat league. And I want to see that every night. Like, I want to see high scoring games every night. If Calgary's in the final, they're a little bit more defensive. They're a little bit more battered down the hatches. And all of a sudden, other GMs look like, oh, this is how you win.

So we do this. I want other GMs to see Colorado Vegas, Colorado or Vegas versus Florida in the final, so everyone's like, let's run a gun. Because I like watching high school. I like watching chances. I like watching teams go back and forth. But from a pure, can they win perspective? Yes.

Calgary is just as good of a chance as Vegas or Colorado of getting to the final, especially we're talking about a short seven game, seven game series is 100% short. And we can't forget, too. Calgary has more points than Vegas right now anyway. So, yes. Calgary's Calgary is definitely and I think

kudos to them for I think one of the things that we need to look at with this deadline that makes it unique that I don't think we talk about enough is moving first I don't think

I think that's going to end up being more valuable than people realize in my view because and I'm going to go to two of the biggest names and I know quite a bit about this situation just because of the team I used to cover but like you look at all the trade boards

and everything like that and everyone's like oh John Klingberg and Joe Pavelsky are available. I don't think John Klingberg and Joe Pavelski are available. Just to give you, for example, the Dallas Stars are three points that have a playoff spot. They have three games in hand. The coach is a coach in the last year of his deal. The GM has gone through four coaches. He doesn't get to hire another coach. Jim Nill doesn't get to trade away Joe Pavelsky and John Klingberg and keep his job. Like I think that is one of the things that everyone is, like, I see

all of these fun clickbaity headlines where people are like, oh, Joe Pavellsky will be great in Colorado, Joe Povellsky would be great here, or John Klingberg here, John Klingberg there. Jim Nill doesn't... The transatlantic accent is back. Sorry, I keep going. Jim Nill doesn't get to trade those guys and keep his

job. It's, I, so, like, I think even it was even Elliot Friedman had in his 32 thoughts the other day of like, like he mentioned, like, oh, well, Topoli may even be more valuable since Joe Povilski might not be able. Joe Pavellsky's probably not available anyway. So, moving fast,

like Calgary did, the trade board is going to start to get the top names, whether it's through deals or guys who actually aren't available because there's teams that are close and there's teams that are, there's teams that are owners right now in this league who they're dying to get into the first round. I know from a hockey perspective, people are like, what's the point of getting into the first round? We're not going to be, just be a middling team, but the gate revenue from the first round is massive. Most NHL teams don't make money until after the first round of the playoffs. And so there's a ton of owners in this league who are, they're not looking at it just from we want to win the Stanley Cup point of, well, we get into the playoffs. We can start to

cut back into some of those losses we've had in the last two years. So I think the trade board, while it's a really fun exercise, I don't think it's as deep as we're publicly making it. I think there's going to be a lot of kind of contingency and supporting pieces more so that can move when some of those big names. And so Calgary went and got one of the biggest fish. And if you can get one of the biggest fish, do it now. You don't have to wait. That's so true. And people who cover this league kind of need to do more research about small market teams because you're just absolutely right about that first round. And the names I see people throw around for the canes are ridiculous. It's like Brett Pesci, Martin Natchez. I'm like, I'll report that they aren't

going anywhere. And people are like, well, maybe they will. Like the canes aren't trading them. So it's just kind of interesting. It definitely is. And like Sean, you mentioned a lot of those big names, it's just guys who like we kind of just, oh, pending UFA, well, he's up. Like he's on the board. And meanwhile, the GM is just sitting there like looking at like, what are you talking about? No way I'm trading that guy. One guy that one of the big names that we do think is actually going to get moved, though,

is Claude Jureux. And he is a hell of a hockey player. watching him at All-Star Week, Sean, you got to see him too. You were here in Vegas. He was just so relaxed. He just seemed like a guy who was like happy to be away from the situation he's been in. He was happy to have those days. And it seems like he's going to be heading somewhere. And so Vegas adds Jack Eichol, and obviously that happens tonight. The Flames, their biggest competition in the Pacific, they go out and get Tyler to Foley. We're hearing Colorado, St. Louis, Minnesota. Man, it seems like an arms race in the West. And I'm all for it. Sarah, where do you think, Claude Giroux, I guess, where do you think he fits? What do you think, like, what are your thoughts on the Claude Drew situation? And do you think he's worth spending a lot of draft picks and capital to get? What, all I have to say is what a mess with the flyers. I thought they were going to maybe win the cup this year and it's just an L. So did they. I know. But I like Drew getting to go and maybe live out that dream of winning the cup. I love that for him. And maybe the wild. I don't know.

I like the wild now. And I think they need kind of. one more piece to be legit contenders. But I say that about everyone. So I don't know what you think, Sean. I think Colorado makes a ton of sense. We'll see if the, Drew is going to be a guy who there's going to definitely be the, Philly knows they have the top piece, right?

And so if you're a smart GM, you're going to hold that. Like the Drew trade may take a while, not because of teams wanting to get Drew, because of Philly kind of trying to slow play to get to maximize return on it. I think Colorado, if I had to place a better favorite, I think Colorado is kind of where he ends up. I think that is, I can see Joe Sackick trying to make that move to try and look at, okay, this is, we have one of the best teams, but we know we're going to run into Vegas.

We know once we get to, if we final, we're going to run into Florida or Carolina or Tampa one of those teams. And so I think Colorado is where I would bet happens. But I also, St. Louis, I don't really see it in St. Louis. Just a random feel thing. Same thing with Minnesota. Like, it just feels like, to me, like Colorado is the team, especially since, and I would say Vegas if they hadn't just already gone and made all those moves and everything like that.

Vegas will make three more trades to clear the space to bring in Claudeau-Jour-Rood. Do not underestimate it. Vegas is absolutely it. Vegas. Yeah. And like, Claude. Claude Jureau, he won the All-Star game.

So he got a Honda, right? He got a Honda from the All-Star game. I wonder if he just got it shipped to Colorado already because it just would have made life a lot easier. Yeah, a lot shorter trip, too. It's, I, yeah, I agree with you. Colorado seems like the most likely spot just because of where they're at. Minnesota, I agree with Sarah that it would be fun.

Yeah. Like, for me, I'm hoping he goes to St. Louis or Minnesota just because, like, it adds to the Western playoffs. Because I feel like the East, the East is more wide open. Like, we're sitting here saying, like, Tampa is obviously, they have to be the favorite. They haven't lost a playoff series in forever. But Carolina, it looks as impressive as any team in the league. Florida obviously looks good.

I feel like the East is more wide open in the West. Calgary jumping into that mix makes it more fun. And if we got a fourth team, if St. Louis or Minnesota adds a Claude Drew and gets on a run, I think we've got a really good final four in the West that would be a lot of fun to watch. I think one of the other things that obviously as a goalie guy, Sean's there with me, catches my attention going into this deadline is it seems like there are some contenders out there still trying to figure out what they're going to do in goal. And to me, to me, there's nothing bigger that's going to impact the playoffs and where

they go than a team like Washington is in search of a goalie. Boston, I haven't seen their name out there in terms of actually looking for guys, but now that the Tukaraq comeback did not work. I think that that's a team that you can't really count on the goalies that they've got. Vegas Golden Knights, Robin Lennar is out with an upper body injury right now. We don't know for sure. We're still trying to figure out how serious that is, but I have heard some people that think that it could be very serious and Vegas could be in.

So you don't see many big goalie trades mid-season. It just doesn't happen very often. The Golden Knights obviously did acquiring Lennar a couple years ago, but Washington is really searching for one. What do you guys think in terms of, like, is there a goalie out there that you think can really help one of these teams that obviously the team has to be willing to trade them? But you're bearing the lead here, Jesse, on the Flurry.

Like, I mean, I think we have to talk. I like whether, no, no, no, no, my, that's my point. That's my point. My point is you're burying the lead on that right now. Like, you can just go make the statement right now, like Vegas is not trading for Mark Andre Fleury. Like, I feel like we need to establish that point right now. Like, because that is a,

that is something that's Kelly McRibbid came out and blatantly said isn't happening. I think that is something that we just should establish right now before we get into any of these exercises on goalie trades. But Flurry's a guy who is absolutely, like if I honestly can't figure out why he's still a Chicago Black Hawk. I can't figure it out. Do they still, are they that delusional in Chicago that they think they're going to make the playoffs or are they holding out for more?

Like are they not, maybe they're not getting the offers they want on him. Maybe they want more. I don't, if I'm Chicago, I'm retaining his salary because it's just this. year. It's one year left on his deal. This is the last year. I'm retaining it. I'm getting what I can for him and sending him to a contender because that's clearly the move that should be made. I think it's probably just all the shuffling of who's GM, who's like whatever and all the drama. I feel like maybe that may halted the process. They have some other things on their plate. They certainly do. I think Sarah can, Sarah covers a team that can kind of speak to the perspective of,

there's a lot of teams out there who are, whether it's a guy with either limited experience or a younger guy or guys who like may even be playing well, but because of the ethos of the playoffs, GMs or coaches want a veteran guy. And Sarah covers a team where literally the reason they went out and got Freddie Anderson was they wanted, they wanted that solidarity for the playoffs. And I think we're going to see those types of moves with goalies. I think that's how the flurry trade will be. That'll be interesting to see how that comes together. I mean, it's the Boston trade. I don't know if Boston has the space to go get a marquee number one, but maybe Boston is in the market for a guy who is a historical 1A, 1B type guy

who can at least push those. Verlamoff to me is coming back. I know. We talked and we discussed that last week. Like, it's, I think there's, I could definitely see teams looking for. that. It's just going to be interesting to see where the chips fall. And I think Flurry may even be, maybe one of the reasons he hasn't left Chicago left, Chicago yet, is because that's going to be the first domino to fall. And the Blackhawks are

aware of that, and they're trying to milk that for everything it's worth. Maybe that's the reason. That's just a speculative thing. It's also just adding a goalie midseason is so different from, like, adding a player that just gets thrown on a line and, like, he's only on the ice for a third of the game. And like, I don't know, a goalie. The position is so mental. Like, it's so read and react. And we all look at the, the athleticism that they show.

And obviously that, but they're all athletic. It's like the goalies that are good in this league are the ones that read where the puck is going. And when you get thrown onto a new team, and I think that's part of it, too, is a coach is sitting there saying, no, we've got this guy who maybe from the outside, we're sitting here saying, that team needs a goalie. And the coach is like, no, like this is our guy. He's in our system.

He's been in it. Like, we're comfortable with him. Who knows how. this new goalie that we add, I don't know, I feel like it's more of a risk to add a goalie than it is to add a left winger in the middle of the season and just hope that that guy falls into line and can carry you in the playoffs. It can really like mess with the dynamic of everything. And especially I know the Keynes have had like three goaltender rotations at some point. And while that's nice to have options, you can only have two at practice. So it's kind of

some guys don't get reps and what if X, Y, and Z happens? Like you, want it to be as simple as possible. The other thing, too, and I don't know if there's any evidence of this at all. Like, you stop and think, obviously there's always stories of like, oh, the team traded for this guy and that guy won a cup and everything like that. I'm struggling right now to think of a goalie trade in season that has ended with that goalie lifting this Stanley Cup. Like in season, I'm struggling right now to think of that.

Like, I think of the in-season goalie trades. I think of the Ryan Miller thing where it didn't really work out that well in St. Louis. And I think of other, like, in-season goalie. trades to me. I can't think of anything. And obviously there's circumstances around it, but I can't think of one in my head right now and someone can correct me if I'm wrong where a guy has been traded in season and then in the starting goalie when that team won a Stanley Cup. Like it's, it's, there's no history for it. And I'm not just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't

happen. But it's, it's certainly, uh, there's no evidence to say that it works for for lack of a better word. I think that's partially that it's hard to do. Like I mentioned. like fitting into the system. But I also think it's partially, teams are afraid to do it. And I think if more teams were more willing to try to get that goal, like, how many times does the team say, we're almost there? Like we've got the contender. We need that last piece.

And it's never a goalie. It's always. And then that same team will go into the playoffs and lose because their goaltending wasn't good enough. Like, I don't know. I feel like GMs are hesitant because goalies are so difficult to predict. They are much more likely to make the trade for the goal score or the, the guy that you know what you're getting.

And it's a position too where I think it also goes back to that element of like, Flurry will be available because Chicago is not making the playoffs. But there's that group in a team we talked about before just in general who they're not going to trade a goalie when they still think they have a chance. Like there's, I think there's still that group of teams we can't ignore where it's, they're not going to trade the goalie because they still think they have a chance to get to get in,

even if that means just getting in to get that first round gate. Like, there's still that grouping that we can't ignore. So it's, it's, the flurring thing will be fascinating to me because it's, it's, it's a guy who clearly with how he trades trade to Chicago, we all know he doesn't have really that no trade, no move protection. So there's no really, there's not really any hurdles. I know Chicago 10 team no trade. But, oh, he does have a 10. I'm pretty sure he has a 10 team, but like as we've seen, that isn't that doesn't protect you much. Yeah.

Well, it's 10 team, no trade. It can be, it's, it depends on how you're going to. Yeah. you can have some fun structuring it that way, but either way, like, the Flurry deal is going to be fascinating to me because how he gets moved, where he ends up, once again, it's kind of, Mark Andre Fleury is such a weird guy, right? Like, we're not, not himself, but his career.

He is kind of weird. But we went from a guy, like, for me, we went from Mark Andre Fleury, where all I could ever picture Mark Andre Fleury at was his Pittsburgh Penguin, right? Like, he's a guy where he thought about him. And now all of a sudden, I can picture him in, like, 16 different places. Like he's gone from that aura of like one guy, one team, all the only place you could ever see him to. Now I'm like, I can see him playing for Washington. Like it's for sure.

Yeah. It's going to be a really fun deadline. I'm excited for the next month, five weeks, whatever it is until the March 21st deadline. It's going to be a lot of fun. Awesome, guys. Well, we're going to head to break. And when we come back, we are going to discuss what we're working on and take your questions from Twitter. All right.

So we asked for your opinions on, obviously we've been talking about the Ikel debut. That's kind of the headline news today. Sarah, what did people have to say about Ikel's debut on Twitter? Yeah, I asked people on Twitter.com to tell me their feelings about Jack Eichael's Vegas debut in one word. I want to start with you, Jesse, first. I want to put you on the spot because you've been around and you've been waiting for this. One word? Yes.

Finally. Finally. Yeah. I've been like I was on the radio this morning. It's like I feel like I've written 15 articles about what Jack Iko could possibly bring to the Golden Knights. I cannot wait to see what he actually brings to the Vegas Golden Knights. I'm excited for it. Yeah.

And the same thing, someone responded free. Someone responded, Gentie responded anxious. Finally, someone else said finally. And excited, circumvented, curious. Circumvented. That's an interesting one. Haddy Watch, that's two words, but I'll give it to them. Wow.

Imagine. Don't want to put too much pressure on the guy, though. He hasn't, I'm like, he hasn't played in a while. That's kind of my, I would say anxious because he hasn't played in a while, right? Like, I don't want the pressure to get to him, but I feel like he's not a guy that would let the pressure get to him, right? Right. And not only has he not played in a while, he's coming off a surgery that, like, he's confident in and, like, the recovery. process has been great, but it's still the first time a hockey player has undergone this.

Yeah. We got a Buffalo fan saying bittersweet, which is nice. I'm glad they can at least feel kind of good for him. Someone said, meh. You know what? Don't be a hater. This is an exciting moment. Sean, what's your one word?

Oh, my one word. Go buffalo-esque. Why? That's the right word, right? Because it just feels like it's such a buffalo thing where, like, Buffalo. had him at had him as his captain and it just feels like such a buffalo sports thing where it's it's going to be someone's going to have to go somewhere to have success elsewhere or someone is going to or you got so close to see him at his peak and then the injury happened and everything

fell apart it's like I'm just going to call it buffaloesque because it's going to be I think it's going to be great for Vegas I think his performance tonight is going to be I think his performance tonight is going to be slightly underwhelming. Just like, frankly, it's like, he's playing his first game since March, March of 2021. And he's also a perfect example, too, where I don't understand, I get why, because players have egos, but I also don't understand why we don't ever, why we never use the conditioning stint in hockey like we do in other sports. Like, it's available.

And I'm not saying even Jack Eichael has to go, like, I mean, actually, Vegas, they're, it's literally two miles to the Orleans Arena where Henderson's playing right now or wherever it's like I don't understand why we don't use it more in the NHL for even if it's for even if you put him on a minute count just to see how a guy responds like what's stopping why couldn't Vegas have him go to Henderson for a one game conditioning stint play eight to 10 minutes just to get some full strides take a couple hits so the first time he takes a hit is not Nazim cadry tonight like just like what like why is I always I always think about that from a hockey perspective when we get a guy coming back. We do it with goalies. Goalies, we tend to send down because of the,

but I just, I always wonder with players why we don't do that more. But, um, I think tonight will be kind of underwhelming from what people are expecting. I think he'll be fine. I don't think he'll, I don't think he'll sparkle the way. If he does, great, that'll be tremendous story. Go read out the athletic tomorrow morning. You can get for 99 cents a month, right? Am I doing the promo right? Um, yes, sir. Otherwise, I, I, I think it's, it's, it's kind of, it's going to be bittersweet for Buffalo and it's just kind of be kind of frustrating for them to watch on national TV tonight. And then on top of that, I know ESPN has already flexed the return to Buffalo game into an ESPN national game. So it's going to be, it's the first flexing ESPN is

done with the new TV deal as Ikel's returned to Buffalo. So it's just going to be bittersweet for people in Buffalo and for people in Vegas, it'll be fun. They always have fun in Vegas. Yeah, I think, obviously I'm biased as the guy who covers the Vegas Golden Knights every day. I'm excited that Ikel's in Vegas. But I think as a just a general hockey sense, seeing Iicle on a team that's going to be in the playoffs is Like we, like we haven't, we've been robbed of watching this superstar player not play in important games. Like how many important, like, think, is there a moment in your mind that Jack Heichael played an important few minutes of hockey? Like, it's sad. Yeah.

I was going to. That's been a, it's been a long time. That's what I'm saying. I was going to say, Jesse, you're not a bean pot watcher? Come on. Yeah. But, but like, and like, how awesome was that? Like, the fact that we're going to see Jack, like, starting tonight, like, this is an important game.

Avs, Golden Knights, this is an important game. obviously it's his debut so like we're not expecting him to carry the golden nights tonight, but like just the fact that we've got one of the most electric players in hockey, one of the most exciting players in hockey, and he's going to be playing important games down the stretch. To me, that's fun for me. Yeah, well said. Awesome.

Sean, you kind of let us into it what we're working on. I'll start. Tonight, you can expect a shift-by-shift breakdown. I love doing these. I've done them, like when they traded for Alec Martinez, I did it. Peyton Krebs made his debut. The reader seemed to like him. I am going to watch Jack Eichol.

and only Jack Eichel for 60 minutes tonight. I'm going to have a full shift-by-shift breakdown. Everything he does on the ice tonight in Vegas against the avalanche, it's going to be a lot of fun. Sarah, what are you working on? Might see some exclusives ahead of the trade deadlines, so can't say much, but look out for that. What about you, Sean?

Right now, the thing that I've been doing this week has kind of been, in addition to my irregular job, I've been helping out our friend Max Bolton, who is flitting around Sweden right now with a tough gig, Good gig if you can get it. And so I've been helping Max a little bit on the Red Wings Beat. I did a couple stories there this week. And it's, I will say, Max has kind of that sweet spot right now of where a beat can be.

Like, no one cares if the Red Wings lose. No one cares if they win. All they care about is fun and good stories because the team isn't supposed to be good for two years. Like, it's a beautiful sweet spot for a beat. And so that's been kind of fun. Like they lost six to three or whatever the other night. I got to write two nice, fun, human interest stories this week without 15,000 comments. to the bottom of like, where's the breakdown of Matthew Bowley's hat trick against us? And so I,

that's what I can tell you guys about that I am working on right now. Other things are kind of kind of stay under the hat for now. So I will say, Jesse, with your shift by shift, do you bring binoculars? Like, I'm curious. Are you one of the guys? Like, are we talking like binoculars up top, like kind of scoping about the entire time or trying to picture this in my head now? Yeah. So I do have binoculars. I think I might be the only guy on Vegas Press Row with binoculars because every time there's a player missing from the bench, which this season for the Golden Knights has been pretty much every game. I'm always, everyone kind of looks to me like, all right, Jesse, break the binoculars out. And I like lean back, grab them. And I'm starting, I'm like staring at the bench trying to

see which number I can't find on the bench. But I don't know, I don't think I'll need the binoculars like for in game play. Like maybe just to see what he's doing on the bench, like to watch the interactions. But, yeah, I'll be, I'll be following him like a hawk. I will say Jesse is, and I don't, I'm going to, I told Jesse this at the All-Star game. Like, when you think of like, male sports writers in hockey. Everyone, myself included, even when they're dressed nice, they wear like a backpack and it makes us look like 18 year olds and everything like that. Jesse's the only sports writer, hockey writer, I know that still carries, like, carries the traditional looking briefcase. He's got the suit. Like, he looks like a professional compared to the

rest of us just based off his bag selection. So the fact you have binoculars doesn't surprise me at all. You dress, you carry the right bag for the job, Jesse. And now I, as I said, when we walked out of the All-Star game the other day. I've got a backpack on. I look like I'm an 18-year-old trying to like look important in a suit when you're like, you look like you're, you know what you're doing. I try my best to look like I know what I'm doing. That's step one. I appreciate it, Sean. Awesome. Well, good stuff, guys. It's been a lot of fun. Thanks for coming on for two weeks, Sean, while Rob's doing the stuff in the Olympics. If you guys want to check out more stuff for the athletic, we've got stuff all over. Obviously, we have the athletic hockey show, but we've also got

Arthur Staples, New Rangers podcast, The Garden Faithful, wherever you find your podcast, you can listen to his ranger stuff. And Andrew Burnett, the head coach of the Florida Panthers, is Michael Rousseau's guest on Straight From the Source this week. Follow us on all your favorite podcast platforms, and don't forget to leave a rating and a review. That really helps. You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get your bonus content for our entire network. Custinson and Gentilly provide bonus content this week. You can start with a 30-day free trial, then just 99 cents. a month after that.

And right now, you can get an annual subscription to the Athletic for just $1 a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and Down Goes Brown. For Sarah and Sean, I'm Jesse. We'll return with Rob Pizzo next week for another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show Roundtable.