The Athletic Hockey Show - Stan Kasten discusses the formation of a new women's hockey league, most interesting teams in free agency

Episode Date: July 7, 2023

One week into free agency, Hailey and Sean discuss the teams that have been the most interesting, including the Predators, Maple Leafs, Bruins, and Stars. Then, to discuss the formation of a new women's professional hockey league set to begin play in 2024, Hailey and Sean are joined by Stan Kasten, President of the Los Angeles Dodgers, and a member of the league's leadership board. They discuss how the league came together, the next steps, what makes this league different from past attempts in pro women's hockey, and much more.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSave on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello, everybody. Happy Friday. It's Haley Salvean and Sean Gentile. It's another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show here for you. It's the Athletic Hockey Show. Friday version. Happy Speak Now Day, everybody.

If you're listening to this at 3 a.m., that would have been enough time for you to listen to Speak Now, Taylor. version four times approximately. And on today's show, we are going to have one Taylor Swift lyric for every team. Don't even joke about that. It's not funny. We asked Stan Kasten, what is favorite Taylor Swift? Hey.

Hey, Stan, do you have a thought on Taylor Swift's Speak Now, Taylor's version coming out? Listeners, you'll never guess which athletic employees spent a decent chunk of their time in Nashville at the Taylor Swift Education Center. Whatever that is, was not me. It was not a human.

I wanted to be able to guess. It was dumb. But yes, I'm joking. We're not doing a Taylor Swift schick. I did just kind of look down and realize that this show will be coming out on the 7th. So if you're a Taylor Swift fan, happy day.

If you're a women's hockey fan, happy day. because Stan Kasten, the president of the Dodgers, who works with Mark Walter, who's going to be part of the leadership group for a brand new women's hockey league launching in January 2024. He joined us today. We had a really long, great chat with Stan about some stuff that's maybe already out there,

but I think it's really valuable to hear the timeline of events and have it all in like one package from Stan. And obviously I've been covering this news as it's happened over the last week since the news broke on Thursday night. While we were in Nashville, by the way, I feel like most of my colleagues watched me just like nervously typing away all evening. And then they all left me to go to Tutsis. That's correct.

And it's been it's been a busy week. And so we kind of recapped everything and looked ahead with Stancast. And so that's, that was really exciting for us to do. so thank you to Stan. And other than that, I guess we'll just talk about free agency. Well, about Stan Kasten,

like one thing I want to say about Stan Kasten is that that guy has been a sports executive. I'm 37 years old. He's been at the forefront of professional sports in one way or another in high profile jobs for my entire life. Like I remember him as, you know, a GM of the Atlanta Hawks.

And then he got involved with the Braves and then he wasn't involved with the Atlanta Thrasher's and then he kind of pivoted out of Atlanta and worked for the Washington Nationals when I was in college. And now he's a guy with the Dodgers who are just like the 10 ton behemoth of Major League Baseball now because the amount of money that Mark Walter has in the, you know, kind of in the billionaire in the atmosphere. So it was cool to talk to him because he's been a guy who like in some capacity I've been aware of my entire life like pretty literally. So it was good stuff from Stan and I will say,

but like before we get on to talk about for agency, is that there are, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't quite break news. I don't know. I don't know if it would be fair to say that. But he like pushed it along in some spots. He gave us some nuggets. Yeah.

He gave us some nuggets. Yeah. It's a valuable listen. If you have already read all the stories out there, you've seen Stancast in quotes. I mean, I talked to Stancast in last week. For a while, in the lobby of our hotel. Hey, Stan, I'll try to make this different for you.

So if you feel like you don't know anything and you need a good refresher and you want to wrap your head around what's going on in the world of women's hockey, this is a valuable conversation to listen to. If you feel like you've already listened to things and read all the things, this is still valuable because it is. I don't know if I can like properly explain how huge this is in the sport. Like we are watching a league come from scratch that is like being led by some of the biggest people in sport, right? Like we have never had anybody like Mark Walter, Stan Kasten, involved in this way in women's hockey. I mean, it's Wimbledon.

Hello, Billy Jean King's involved too. Alana Claus. Even some of the people that are going to be involved in this league that have not been announced. so I won't share that I've heard that are already going to be involved, whether it's just in like a PR capacity. Like these are like big like executives in sport, not just hockey. So this is this is watershed moment.

But I also think we need to understand and empathize with the downside of this. They're going to be people who no longer have jobs in the sport, whether that's players, coaches, social media staff, communication staffers. Um, this is really exciting and really positive for the future of women's hockey, but, you know, there were players who signed a hundred thousand dollar contracts to play in the pH. And they are either going to not have that money for the next couple months until they start playing in the new league or they're not going to get that money and they're not going to have a roster spot. Um, so it's exciting. But there's also a lot of uncertainty. And I know I certainly empathize with, with those players and those people as well. So yeah, kind of a double track. And that's the challenge. That's the challenge for you specifically covering this development, right? It's been, I think you've threaded the needle, but you have to balance the positivity of what's going on with the PWHPA League versus, you know, the story of the collapse of the PHF and the ramifications of that on a more individual level. So that's something that, you know, the counterbalance is going to continue being there.

Yeah. But that being said, yeah, we're thrilled to talk to Stan and he was great. Yeah, so look forward to that coming up in our second segment of the show. But for now, before we get into that and we dive in deeper on women's hockey, you know, it's July 6 right now as we're recording. This will come out on the 7th. So pretty much a week of free agency moves. We were at the draft in Nashville.

Nothing interesting happened there. There were no trades. Connor Bardard went first, whatever. Whatever. Like you're only half joking, but like it was busy without being interesting. Yes. Which is not a great combination. And Free Agency opened the day after everyone got stuck in the Nashville airport until like three in the mornings.

So that was super fun for everybody involved. Shout out to Thomas Drenz, who I believe just made it back to Vancouver in the last year. When I saw Duran's talking of Barry Trots on the next day, I was like, Tom, no. Drancer was on Pred's duty for a couple days. Okay, but this is great though, because let's start. with the Preds because what we want to do before we get into Stan is just kind of talk a bit about, you know, some of our big takeaways, what we liked from free agency. And GM Barry Trots continues to be a lot of fun to follow. Interesting stuff from him. Yeah, I mean, I don't know

how much better they're going to be, but they're certainly going to be. You can tell that maybe this isn't the year for them necessarily to make, you know, major inroads in terms of in terms of points or record or whatever. But like as the beginning of the Barry Trots general manager era, I think this is interesting because we can see that he's maybe building a team that's a little bit different from some of the ones that he's coached over the years, which is kind of fascinating. But no, he's done a good job.

So to recap a few things, I mean, they trade Ryan Johansson to Colorado in what was I guess kind of a confusing deal for some people, but when I saw that, I was like, why is anyone confused? This makes so much sense for both sides. So they moved Johansson to Colorado. They buy out Matt Dushane. They sign Ryan O'Reilly and Luke Shen. Devastating for Frank Salvean. Devastating. He was so mad at Brad Trilliving until they signed like Bertusie. And he was just like, oh, yeah, okay, I get it. I get. I see the vision now. Suburban dad was like, Ah!

Haley's dad is like the classic ball weather for Toronto Maple Leafs fans. And I think like his reaction is dead ass accurate, you know, in terms of the fanship at large. Although I don't know if the Leafs are necessarily going to be better next year than they were this year, but I can appreciate essentially him going in and doing things differently because the way that they were doing it didn't work.

So may as well just, try something a little different. And I think Bertuzi signing a one-year deal in Toronto was so smart on both sides to like bring in Tyler Bertuzi. And then also for Tyler Bertuzi to just, you know, people say this all the time and I know it sounds kind of snotty and Toronto pretentious. But like that is such a big market that if Tyler Bertuzzi has a good season in Toronto, he's setting himself up for such a huge payday. Because everyone's going to be talking about how amazing Tyler Bertuzi is. Like I spoke with an agent for like a tweener basically, like a guy who can barely crack

the lineup at times, you know, waiver wire guy. And the agent told me he was like, we thought Toronto was the right place to go and try to have a good year because if you play well in Toronto, you're going to be set because the media are going to be talking about you

and you're going to be on TV, you're going to be on TSN, like, you know, you're going to boost your value by playing well in that market. So I think that was a, I mean, Tyler Bertuzi and the Leafs are winners here for sure. And if you're Tyler Bertuzi, there is no better example of a guy who is better suited to sign the one-year deal and then reenter the marketplace next year than him, right?

Because he's still young, he's still in his 20s. He's going to go to Toronto. Yes, big media market, tons of attention. You know, absolutely. What Tyler Bertuzi has that maybe bottom six guys don't have is a spot playing with Austin Matthews, possibly. So he's going to be in a great spot, you know, in terms of production. and all that stuff. So yeah, Tyler,

Tilly, specifically, big winner. Takes Kelly, Aaron Kroke off the first line, just like automatically makes the Leafs top six look so much better.

They needed more guys who can score goals. And it sounds very basic, but yeah, and counterintuitive to what the narrative around that team is too, right? Right.

Everyone cared so much about how their defense and their defensive structure was so much better last season, but like, where did that get them? The goals dried out when they needed them.

the end of the day. And you need guys where if Austin Matthews' wrist is all messed up and Mitch Marner's not putting pucks in the back of the net and you need someone other than William Nylander, it can't be, it can't be Matthew Nyes. I mean, it could be sure. He's going to be better next year. But like, it can't be Alex Kerfoot and David Camp that you're like, hey. Good news, by the way.

Good news, by the way. This big red siren that I have mounted above my computer. that goes off whenever I talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs for too long. I was going to transition out of this. Thank you. So at the end of the day, I think we like what the Leafs did.

We appreciate Barry Trots and what the Nashville Predators are doing. Also shout out to Mark Borvietzky, who was hired by the Nashville Predators after he announced his retirement. Such a good person. And I'm so happy for him and his family that he's going to be working

in this organization. awesome news, awesome family. Shout out to Mark and Tara Boraviatki. They're great people, and they seem really happy with the Preds organization. I've heard really good things about that organization over the last couple weeks here. Who else do you like, Sean? Let's talk about penguins. Okay.

I was going to pass on them. I was trying to get out of it. Okay, sorry. Never mind. Who do you like, Sean? We do need to talk about the Eric Carlson, Pittsburgh situation, right? Let's do the Carlson conversation. And I think this is interesting, too.

I'll segue it a little bit with a Calgary conversation I had on the radio the other day. People were asking me, like, what's going on? Like, I thought there was going to be all this noise, all these guys want out. And I was like, if you're Kyle Dubus, and because we were talking about this, we thought Noah Hanofin's like a perfect penguins option, right? People were talking about the Hanifin conversation. If you're Kyle Dubas are literally any GM and you're thinking about Noah Hanifin, you're ditching Noah Hanifin right when Eric Carlson comes on the board, right?

Jeff, I mean, I'll say this. He makes a lot more sense for the Pittsburgh Penguins, I think, than Noah Hanifin does for a lot of different reasons. He's directly in the age window of the rest of the top of their roster in terms of if you think it's going to last two years, three years, whatever, great. And then maybe that's when we see Kyle Dubas hit the reset button and move on to the next phase of life for that organization. In the meantime, they're still trying to win relevant games, right? The problem for them, and this is maybe less true now than it was two weeks ago, but

it doesn't make it false, if Sidney Crosby or Eugenie Mall can get hurt for any meaningful amount of time, that team is a deep, deep, deep shit. Why would you say that? They don't, they don't have anybody else who can carry the load in any meaningful way offensively. Is the bottom six better, absolutely. But beyond those guys, you know, you have nothing. And that's sort of, you know, that was the wasted gift of this past season by Ron Hextall is that these guys were healthy and productive and still somehow screwed it up badly enough to not, you know, not make the ball season. There was no player available in very few players league wide that can carry an offensive load more than Eric Carlson. So will Eric Carlson play wonderfully?

would he play wonderfully like as part of the group like absolutely but most of all if you're the Pittsburgh Penguins you acquire him as Crosby and Malkin insurance because if those guys

if one of them that's such a bad omen stop saying that it's true it's true because if one of them has something something I'm not talking about if major injuries right I'm not talking about serious stuff I'm saying those guys are both hurt

for a two week period in December. And if you're Mike Sullivan, you can say to Eric Carlson into Chris Latang, go ahead, go do it. Like, this is your team. You know, everything runs through you. The power player runs through you. Help keep us afloat.

We saw it last year. Eric Carlson did his best with the San Jose Sharks to be a one-man, to be a one-man team. And he can bring some of that energy to Pittsburgh. And I think that's part of the reason that they won him so badly is if, is as that kind of bet, yes, part of the greater part of the whole, part of the bigger picture dude just had 100 points as a defenseman

great but also as kind of a bet hedge against Crosby and Malkin because that team's biggest problems still is that they don't have people that are capable of picking up the slack for them how can they make it work how can they make it work

yeah buy someone out they need San Jose to decide because Eric Carlson makes a lot of money well there was a gift was given to the Pittsburgh Penguins yesterday when Drew O'Connor filed for arbitration because that opens up the second buyout window for Pittsburgh. Kyle Dubus has said multiple, at least once

or twice, like he doesn't anticipate using a buyout, but situations change, you know, everything is fluid. And now because Drew O'Connor filed for arbitration, they have the right if they so desire it to buy out another player. And whether we're talking about, you know, Michael Grahamlin is the obvious one, Jeff Petrie would be like if they wanted to do it, if they wanted to do it I'm having hex doll nightmares. They can thank him for all

of this, right? Yep. So that's interesting. Imagine buying out a guy that just got acquired after you just cleared Caps face. I think what's more likely is that he would be. I can't even say anything intelligent

about it. I'm just like an agony. I think what's more likely is that Petrie would be part of a deal in one capacity. because they're both right shots. Sure. You can't have $16 million dedicated to three players on the right side there.

But it would be an option and it's an option that as of 24 hours ago they did not have. But what needs to happen most of all, at least on Pittsburgh's end of this thing, is that CNLSA needs to figure out what they want to do.

Do they want to trade Eric? Do they want to trade Eric Carlson now? Do they want to hold on to him at the deadline? Do they want to wait another year? Oh, just let him go. let him do you want to wait another year until there's uh you know when he'll be more it'd be easier to trade him because he'll have less actual money on on his contract versus the cap hit like there's a reason you know how is it like Eric Carlson's not gonna have another historic season next year

like he in San Jose he's just not he's not let him go sure trade him that's the decision that they need to make do they want it do they want to hold on to him for another year pay him that money and possibly get a better return versus A, fulfill his wish, B, get out from his enormous salary this season and make them move now. And it doesn't seem like they've made that decision just yet. So a lot of it's on them.

If they want to trade them, Pittsburgh is more than interested. I'll say that much. Jeff Petrie makes so much money. Bad trade. It was a bad trade. My heart hurts. You just said that all. way smarter than I did because I'm just like yelling in the background.

I've had to, okay, let's go. I've had to figure it out over the last, you know, however many, however many months. I've heard lots of people yelling about Ron Haxall, so I'm used to trying to cut through it and make some sense of it. I've just like blocked it all out. I have a mental block with what happened there, I think. Let's look at the Bruins because they're a team that we kind of had on our to watch list

before free agency started and they're a team that, I don't know what I was expecting from them and free agency. Like, I don't know what, I mean, I know what I was like yelling about saying, I know what you were expecting. Trade Allmark. Well, no, because listen, it was like, well, of course you'd rather clear cap space by getting rid of Mike Riley, but can they really do that? We saw them with the buyout of Mike Riley, who ends up signing a contract in Florida.

I like some of the contracts that they signed to in free agency. I think Morgan Geeky was one of the ones that popped up as good value. Two years, two million dollars with the Bruins. He was not qualified by the Cracken. They are ridiculously deep up front and needed to kind of clear spots for guys like Shane Wright, other young players to kind of grab spots. So Morgan Geeky is an interesting one. He can play center, wing.

power play things like that he he's versatile um and they have uh as you were talking about with their centers you can have pavalsaka charlie coyle and that top six center responsibilities then geeky kind of slides in as as a three C and sorry Sean we were talking about this before we started recording but I feel like I have less agony over the Boston Bruins right now it's still not a perfect roster um but they did some they did some things that kind of made things look a little bit better. Because at the end of the day, you still have a core group of David Pasternak, Brad Marchand, Charlie McAvoy, and an incredible goalie tandem in place. Like, I think they did what they needed to do to just fill out the rest.

There's still some more to come, but they have $6 million in cap space. And obviously, they trade Taylor Hall and Nick Filino. Nick Flino obviously was an unrestricted free agent, but those were two big moves that it was like well they're sticking with their with their goalie tandem I guess over over having like a Taylor Hall in that in the top of the lineup. Yeah we know what their strategy is now right like they like

they like Pavel Zaka a lot I think they like what he brings with Passenachs specifically so you have you know for better or worse he's your one C you say okay Charlie Coyle you can slide him into like maybe a matchup role on this on the second line playing with

playing with Marchand hope it works out and then the 3C is, you know, Trent Frederick maybe works out. Maybe that's where Morgan Geeky ends up. Morgan Geeky. And then one of the other guys, like maybe one ends up is the 3C,

one is the 4C, like, okay. Ugh. And you've got Milan Lu Cheech on the fourth line. It rocks, the vibes immaculate. Congratulations, Milan Lu Cheech and your family. I love that so much. Live, laugh,

Luch. It's one of those things where, like, if you're going to sign a random fourth liner, you might as well make them, you know, a beloved figure in your city. Like, why not?

So we know, we know. He has a no move clause. So we know what this is. It's iconic. Sorry. So we know what this is going to look like, right? They're not going to have centers.

They have some decent wingers. The defense is still, still really strong. And they have two, you know, starter. goaltenders, one of them just one of Vezna. So, okay, you roll your dice on that for a year.

They have a ton of cap space opening up after this season, and then that's when they can really load up and try to go out and get, you know, a better option, you know, maybe a top six center, maybe someone else to fill the gap there that they opted not to this season. Like, it might not work, but you can at least see the strategy and you can see the logic, and, you know,

I'm on board with that much at least. Yeah, it was such like a doom and gloom, you know, even just talking to people in that market of like, how the hell are they going to get out of this? And looks like they did it. Yeah, they have cap. Like you said it, they have cap space. Yeah, they've got six million in space right now. Figure out the swam and stuff and move on from there. Yep.

It's 20 players committed to right now. They have a legitimate group of NHL players, which you like that was a good year. Yes, there's a roster now. Before it was like we could put league minimum salaries in all these spots and they'd still be over the cap. So they got out of the mess. There'll probably be more to come from Boston again. As you mentioned, I mean, Jeremy Swayman still needs a contract. He's a RFA with Arbright.

So keep watching the Bruins. Last team before we get to Steen-Kaston, because I know we wanted to do this pretty quickly. And have not. The Dallas stars. Yeah. Shut up. You spoke for like 12 minutes about Eric Carlson. Well, I just yelled in the background.

You brought it up. I'm the host. I didn't think you were going to talk that long. How am I not supposed to talk about Eric Carl? Wait a second. Hold on a second. You bring that up like two topics that I could sit here and talk to, you know, a dining room table chair about for a half hour and expect me, expect me not to go off for a little bit.

Great. Great. Way to go. That's correct. Dallas Stars. Do we like what they've done? Their top nine is, I mean, I know people in Dallas are like, can you please upgrade the defense? And they're just like, we'll give you Matt Douchain.

Thanks, but. I don't know. Their forward group looks great. It's another one. You can see the plan, right? You get a full year of Thomas Harley playing, you know, with the defensive group. I think that could go a long way. He was really, really good in the playoffs.

And I don't know, you just see what happens. When you can go out, here's the most, here's the funest part about the stars. Is that this is Ben Matthew Sheen's destiny for the last five years, seven years. We finally, finally get to see what he looks like when he's like the fifth best player on a team. I love it. Right, right. I love the idea of him being a, he's free. Basically a role player on a really, really good hockey team.

And that has not been the case for him ever. We'll take it. Yeah, I like it. Because they're top nine, they've got Wyatt Johnson, Jamie Ben, Tyler Sagan, Ruppé Hintz, now Matt Dushane, Evgeny Dadov, Mason Marchman, hello, Jason Robertson, and Joe Pavelsky.

That's unbelievable. Big fan. 100%. I was already a Dallas stars fan, and now I'm, yeha, let's go. Okay. So let's finish the free agency talk here. I guess the only other thing to keep in mind as we kind of go forward in free agency,

we're tracking the air. Carlson, we're tracking Vladimir Tarasanko. He is not signed yet, and he switched agents. So keep watching that. Alex De Brinkett still hasn't been signed or traded, I should say, excuse me, by the Ottawa senators. some Ian Mendez had a good story in the athletic with his agent kind of saying it's not agents who make trades. It's the GMs. So keep watching Alex DeBrinke it. And also Philip Sedina has been placed on unconditional waivers for the purpose of terminating his contract that was on or buying out his contract. Excuse me. That was on Thursday afternoon. So once you're hearing this, maybe there's been some more news there. But yeah, lots to keep track of in free agency, lots that we've liked so far. And now let's go to Stan Kasten and chat about the future of women's professional hockey in this new league that has not been named yet that is expected to begin play in January of 2024.

This was super exciting for us. Hope you enjoy it. All right. So we are really excited to be joined by a longtime sports executive president, the Los Angeles. Angeles Dodgers, a leader or a member of the leadership group of a new women's hockey league to come in January of 2024. Stan Kasten, welcome to the athletic hockey show. Hi, Hayley. Hi, Sean. Good to be here. We're both of them. Yeah, thank you for doing this. As I said, we're really excited to get into this conversation. It's been a really busy week. It's actually kind of crazy that it's been a week now.

Somebody told me that it's been a week since the town hall meetings where all this happened. There's been a lot going on. So we're excited to dive into this. I guess just just a start. Can you take us through, Stan, how some of this kind of news over the last week kind of came together. You said this. We chatted already. You know, it's important to understand that this was like two different transactions that ultimately came together to fundamentally change the landscape of women's hockey. Can you just give our listeners that kind of understanding of what happened here? Yeah. We, you know, the whole story begins more than a year. You know, the whole story begins more than a year ago when Mark, Walter, and Billy Gene agreed to start having discussions with the

PWHPA, we knew that there was a void in women's hockey because these top players didn't have any organized league to play in. And so that went on for a while. And then in November, I mean, I can't tell you exactly why Mark asked me to do this, but that was when he came to me and said, they stand, please, can you please get this done for me? So, of course, I was happy to do that. And so we began.

And we began with, it was really Mark's idea that, you know, let's do this right. Let's have them organized. Let's have a collective bargaining agreement. So that the problems we're trying to fix are memorialized, that, you know, the salaries and the housing and the benefits and all of the other stuff is incorporated formally into an agreement that protects them that will give. give them, I think, confidence in us. And so we began that process. It took a long time because collective bargaining. If you're just renegotiating or renovating, let's call it, an existing collective bargaining,

that's hard enough. We've seen league strike over that. But when you're starting from a blank piece of paper, it's really hard. It's really hard. And so we said about doing it. It took about six months, but that's because of it. It's hard. We had some contentious moments, but not that many.

And generally speaking, the relationship between this ownership group and the players is as good as I've ever seen. And we set out to start a league. We were going to have X number of teams in our first year next year. And then, like, midway through, there was some traction, I think, in our more casual conversations. with the PHF. And they were happening simultaneously because of legal requirements and NDAs and all that. We couldn't talk about it to anyone. So we couldn't talk to anyone the PH side. Obviously, we weren't disclosing to the P. I mean, we couldn't talk to anyone on the PW side. We couldn't tell anyone that PH side what the status of our collective bargaining agreement was. So that was yet another complication. It took about six months for each, those six months coincided.

we managed to land both of these planes at the same time and voila we now have one league which is the league for which all of the best women's hockey players in the world can play and it's a very exciting prospect i didn't know where it would end when we began but it seems we've ended in a very good place although an intimidatingly long to-do list is still in front of me but uh we're we're pretty excited about this well what is that what's that to do list look like Like, is there a big item at the top of it that you can share with us? Like in terms of what you need to tackle next? Yeah.

What's the name of the week? Yeah, I got to start there. Okay. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. We've had a lot of good conversations all through this. And a lot of people were set up to start to work once we got going. But no one could get going until we were ready.

And so that has all been happening this week. I will tell you, we have had to be. players involved in those discussions, like they have been involved in discussion about cities and about rules and about conditions and about a draft. And that is going to be a theme of this ownership and the fact that it's a single entity. We intend to be very collaborative with our players. Their input has been fantastic. And we have formalized a collaboration element as well in the collective bargaining.

going to continue. And they're also, they also have been involved in helping us with our name. It's very cool. And it seems like I've heard from players about that collaboration and some of the CBA moments as well. I've heard so much about not like the fact that it was a player led collective or bargaining committee, I should say, I think is really cool. I mean, I know that there's players involved in players associations and other leagues. But the fact that there's, you know, a pregnant Kendall Coins Schofields across the other side of the table. And I mean, I've just heard so much about her leadership. And if you want something done, you go to Kendall.

What was that like going up against Kendall coin in some of those negotiations? Kendall is extremely passionate about this project. She is also determined as hell to get what she thinks is right. But she has such a great demeanor with her. I don't think she ever turned on. anyone on the other side of the table. She just kept talking, right? She just kept talking in the best possible way. I told Sarah Nurse a week ago that I had predicted back in March whenever we were together in Palm Springs that look, this is how

collective bargaining works. The last week or so will be ugly. I'm sorry, it will. It just will getting those last things done. But once it's done and we're all back on the same side of the table again, it's going to feel fantastic. And I reminded you last week that I am two for two of those predictions that the last week or two was ugly because that's how stuff works. But now we're all just ebullient about the final result and excited about the prospects of our future. Mark Walts are such a major player in a lot of different spaces. You know, you've been aligned with him since 2012, I believe, with the Dodgers. I mean, we're familiar with him just from falling his work elsewhere, but a lot of people aren't.

So how would you describe, you know, his, his demeanor and his approach and his, uh, his sort of bona fides as a, as an exec to people who were just kind of being exposed to him, maybe in, I will tell you, um, when we got together, I had my own record at that point, my own resume. And, uh, we got together on this because he was a passionate fan of sports. Didn't really think about investing in sports until the opportunity. crossed his desk. But he wants it to be the best it can be and he wants it to work that's in all of his investments. And when we got together and it was clear that I was going to undertake this, he said to me two things. He said, Stan, I'm a passionate fan. I have a lot of opinions. You're going to

hear a lot of opinions. And you are to disregard all of them. You have to make these decisions or else why am I hiring you? And I said that to Andrew Friedman when we were hiring him. I said, this is how Mark works. And when he finally met Mark, Mark said the same thing to him. And that is how we have lived for 11 years together. Mark is passionate, always following the score, even when we're not in touch for weeks at a time or more.

He's on top of everything. And he will have opinions. And sometimes he delivers them forcefully. but he expects us to disregard them if we think we have a better idea. And you can't have better ownership than that. How do you disregard? Like, okay. Yeah.

Thanks, Mark. We'll take that under consideration. We appreciate the input. No, it's something like, well, you know, that's a really good idea. It's really interesting. But here's how we see it. And it's not quite that condensed. Sometimes it takes a couple of weeks for that process to play out.

But, you know, just my experience, with him here has been a dream come true for a guy who does what I do to be given the resources, the direction, the support, the time. I call those the four things that a president needs to provide to his staff. And likewise, what an owner needs to provide to his president. We get all of that. It's enabled us to do what we've done with the Dodgers. And the other things we've also I want to champion it with the sparks. So that's how Mark is. Mark understands that professionals are professional.

And if they're not working out, then we'll change them. But so far, things have been working out just fine. That's the kind of owner he is. And, I mean, bringing that partnership with Billy Jean King, Alana Kloss, you know, the other members of the who are going to make up this leadership group of the league. I mean, why is women's hockey? something that Mark and yourself and everybody who's involved ultimately decided is worth the

investment in all of this time. Well, I think it really started with Billie Jean and Alana. We are very close to them. They are involved in a lot of things we do. We are already in women's sports. We are our support for the Billie Jean King Cup, which used to be the Federation Cup, our ownership of the sparks. And so when an opportunity like this arose, Mark said, let's do it.

I mean, nothing lost if we didn't get it. But so let's try it. And so we tried. We pushed a little more than we thought we would have to do to get it done. But at the end of the day, Mark and I talked about it, in our portfolio of sports holdings, we do have two things already that are in the women's space. We do have sparks. We do have the support for the Billing King Cup.

But this would be a third thing, but it would be different because this is something we've created. We've started something. We've built something new for women with the ability for all of these elements to come together. And that's a different thing. And Mark was all in on that. And it's, I mean, in your career, you've been in so many different spaces and done so many different things, whether it's, you know, Hoops GM or the work with Nats or help them get the thrashers off the ground. But this is the first time you've, and correct me from wrong, I think this is the

first time you've launched a league, right? You individually personally. You're checking that one off the list. It's ridiculous. Yeah. It's ridiculous. As I told Ted Turner the first time, he told me to take over a second team. He said, yeah, you'll be the first guy doing that, isn't that right?

I go, yeah, Ted, do you know why that is? It's such a bad idea. But Ted Turner and I had an understanding that when he and I disagreed, something we just did things his way so that's how I got into expanding uh my domain and um it's kind of a curse that people have so much confidence in you that you could do these things i don't have that kind of confidence so when mark came and i mean okay i'll try and and here we are so now let's see if it works i mean we got deals done now let's see if it works but we're going to hire good people too. And that's how I know it's going to work. Because if I have one, if I have one,

one principle that I have in managing sports teams or companies in general, it comes down to eight words. It's hire good people, let them do their jobs. It's kind of what Mark Walter says, right? Hire good people, let them do their jobs. That's exactly how I operate. And so far, so good. Well, I guess that's kind of one of the big items on the to do list, right, is to be building out not just the name of the league and what the teams are going to be, but also how are people going to go to those teams who are going to be the GMs, the coaches. But one of the elements that I'm really interested in, Stan, when we're looking at women's hockey, typically the biggest challenges in this sport, it's never an issue of the talent and the skill in women's hockey. It's been kind of the visibility in the

marketing. So how do you see not just the front offices, but, you know, your business teams being built out and really making sure that come January, people know Hillary Knight is in this city playing for this team against this team in this league. How do you imagine that happening? By the way, on that night, Kendall has already assured me that I know it's only six months. She will be in shape and she will be on the ice that night. That doesn't surprise me at all. I'm exciting. I'm very excited for that.

Not a bit. There's no question that. enhanced marketing is a feature of running sports teams. We intend to put a lot of energy into that, both with staffing and with budgets to get that word out. But let me tell you something else that I couldn't have counted on, but it's been such a shot in the arm for us. The immediate acceptance and support from the NHL was really heartwarming to us. And that is a very big X factor in how we go about this. we have already been in talks with them across a range of subjects.

We're going to continue those talks. But, you know, the association with the NHL, which I love and which I spent a long time in, and my association with Gary Bettman, which really lasts my entire career, is a great, a great piece of news that other leagues didn't have until now. But we have it now. That's not just me saying that Gary was generous enough to tweet that out himself that first day. So that's a difference maker, I think, Haywood. And I think you're going to know where Hillary Knight is playing on January 1.

I'm pretty sure. I mean, that is something that we've heard from Gary in the league over the last year or so that, you know, step one is consolidation, right? in knowing and knowing and having one specifically before it got his imprimatur and all that and all that sort of stuff. So how have those, when have, how have those conversations changed, I guess over the last, over the last week or so? When we bought the PHF, again, I'd been under an NDA, could not tell anyone about the discussion. Once it was done, I was free to talk. So my first call was to Jane Hepher, who was leading the PA for the PWH players. My second call was to Gary to tell him I wasn't going to be one of those guys, Gary,

who tells you what we're going to do, what we're thinking about doing, what we're playing doing. I waited until I could tell you we had done it. And he could not have been more excited. He said this to what he's been waiting for. He has been as good as his word. And we have had talks from that day on about the different ways we can work. together. So it could not have been better. Could not have been better. I'm sure this is exactly

what you were thinking in the 80s when you were at the GM of the Hawks and he was working for the league. You said later on down the line, working a partner and maybe do something with the launch of a women's professional hockey league. I'm sure that's how you drew it up. I will tell you this. We had a contentious moment. We were talking about a contract or something. I tend to generate a lot of contentious moments with people. I just, I don't know why. But I remember Gary saying me, he won't remember this, but I remember him saying, you're going to be friends a long time. We have to get through this. I remember I'm saying that to me. I didn't know about all this, but it has, he was right. We have been friends

a long time. I think what's interesting about, you know, these conversations that you're having with, with the NHL with Gary Bettman is that for a long time, NHL's involvement in women's hockey almost look like the WMBA model, right? But now it probably looks a little bit different because you and Mark and Billy Jean King are involved. So, you know, we're almost looking at like, and forgive me because maybe this isn't something you can get into at this time because it's still so early. But instead of like a WMBA model, maybe it's a bit more of like a soccer model where there's like how the MLS, there's the owner operator model.

You know, a team can come in and provide assistance, provide that marketing. You know, if it's even just the Pittsburgh Penguin social media team helping out on a day-to-day basis. There's just so many different ways that this can look, which is very interesting. Like almost everything I've done in the last year, this too is starting from a blank piece of paper. And so any of those possibilities exist and we'll continue to explore them. I will say this to all of you, because I said this to our players, the PWHPA players on my first meeting with them. We're going to do this. We're going to get this done. But in year one, I am going to going to make mistakes. Okay. I am going to make, I said a lot of mistakes. Hopefully it's not

that many, but I know I will. And we'll fix them. We'll fix them. By year two, we should have our program down. We should have our staffs fully staff. We should have enough experience that we will really know how to make this bird fly. But I'm going to make mistakes in year one. Hopefully this podcast is not one of them. But we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, to make mistakes. I know it. I get it. It's part of, it's part of building companies. But that's okay. We're prepared for them. We're prepared to learn from them and do better. So just bear with us while we all, us and our players and our fans, we're all learning together. And that's how I'm looking at it. You know, one question, Stan, that I had asked you, but when we talked previously,

you mentioned that, you know, there was a bit of an evaluation process when you guys first got involved or at least when Mark first got involved and he kind of wanted to to look into things and say before I invest the time, the money, I've got to see, like, is this something that could work? You know, without giving all the trade secrets, you know, can you share with us like what Mark or what you learned through that process that made you go from, hey, should we get involved to, yep, we're all in. We're going to create this thing. Well, I can't kid you. This is going to be expensive and we had to evaluate whether this was a good expense or not. But I want you to know that Mark undertook this knowing all of that, knowing just what we think it's going to be. And at the end of

the day, the most important thing to him was that it doesn't fail. And by failing means, we wind up having to fall someday. That is not going to happen here. Mark is not planning this for the short term. He's not even planning this for the long term. He's planning for this to be permanent. And that was what we had to do. And at the end of day, when he looked at me and said, okay, should we do this? I said, yeah, we should do it. So that's how I feel, too. And understanding the timeline of everything that happened here, too, Stan, why was the purchase, or the purchase of certain assets from the PHF? Why was that important for the future of the game more of the success of this league.

Why did that need to happen now? Well, you know, I don't know that it needed to. We were certainly contemplating earlier that there would be two leagues. But I think everyone involved, I think the PW, I think the P.H, me, Mark, Gary. I think everyone understood that our best case would be someday when there was one league for all the best players in the world to play it. Now, we had our different opinions about what that should look like or how we get there. But as we spoke with the pH and as they came to understand how we were viewing this,

I think even they realized, hey, this might be the best and the quickest way to get the thing that all of us wanted to happen. So I give them enormous credit for the work they did in keeping and building their league, as well as recognizing the opportunity they had to contribute to making the one league for everyone. And I hope they get the credit for those decisions because they did a lot of great work. The Boyntons and all of their partners did a lot of great work. Commissioner Reagan-Carrie did a lot of great work to get us to this point. But here we are. And now we have the thing that all of us have long wanted, have long.

thought was really, really the way for women's hockey to succeed. And, and here we are. And I, you know, you mentioned the things that you can draw from, from the PHF and from the bointens and from the work that they've done, all the, all the positives. There's also the flip side where, you know, not just with the PF, but other, other pro leagues, you can kind of see where they've, some, some of the pitfalls that have kind of befallen them. So what, I guess, and I know, I realize this is a big question, but this is part of, I guess, filling out the blank piece of paper that you're talking about here. But what is going to make this league different from the other attempts at a pro-women's league?

That is a good question, Sean, and I'm very certain about my answer. First of all, this is a single entity. It is owned by Mark. All our teams are owned by Mark or the venture. And we are not going to have some of the pitfalls that you get when there are different owners with different agendas and different budgets and, you know, fighting each other. We're going to have what however many things we have, they're all going to start with an equal chance to succeed and to compete because we want strong franchises in every city.

We think we have built a lot of those protections into the collective bargain agreement, again, with the agreement of our players. And we have strong ownership, strong ownership, strong leadership, adequate, more than adequate resources backing. And when you start with ownership and leadership of Mark Walter and Billy Jean King, I'm sorry, it does not get better than that. So that is my answer to why this is going to work. It is absolutely going to work.

I think it's so interesting because there was maybe a mindset that the individual ownership group was going to be the path forward. But we've seen with so many different leagues that, have been in the past, even with the original NWHL that Jaina Hefford would have played in. If you had a good owner, you were doing all right. But if your owner, like, didn't really care or didn't have as much money, like, you're, you didn't have the same resources. So I think it's really important to show single entity is not a bad thing here.

Like, this is, this will be good. This is a, this is a positive because the individual ownership models have, you know, maybe not with the pHF, but in the past, you know, in the history of the sport have been, the downfall. Well, we, um, we're starting with X number of teams, which haven't devolved yet. How many start? How, yeah, X. That's an X spelled with an X. Okay. I'm not very good at math. I'm not good at, I didn't do trig or anything. Also not necessarily meant as a Roman numeral. So we cannot infer that you, that they're going to be 10 teams. It is X as a placeholder. Yes. Um, yeah. Whatever we do in this first year, learning, it's learning what we are, who we are, how we make this work. And then once we get that

formula down, we absolutely have plans to grow the league. We absolutely have plans to expand both domestically as well as internationally. And so that's what I want to say. Along the way, do we change the model to allow individual owners? Maybe, maybe not. We don't have any firm plans on that. I was in on the creation of the WNBA. And as you know, we started with every team had to be owned by that city's NBA team and play in that city's NBA arena. And over time, that model evolved away from that. It's going to go a little closer now. And so who knows what will happen. But to start it out, to get the formula right, to make sure everyone is rowing in the same direction, we think the way we have it set up now is our best shot at getting

this right. Can you give us any kind of roadmap from here until the January launch? Like, is there, is there a plan for the drafts? Is there like, are there, are there signposts along the way from July to January that are going to get us ready? Yeah. As I've said, we're going to have a gala launch press conference. Let's call it in August sometime. And at that time, we'll be, We'll be revealing all the details that we have by then. Between now, then, we'll probably be dropping some breadcrumbs along the way. You've got some few nuggets here and there. You know where to find us, by the way.

Yeah. We're not tough of it. I got you. The first week's business is, okay, let's get a name of the league just this morning. I committed to a company to get us a logo for the league. we are working on finalizing our list of cities. And by the way, that has become subject to change, too, for all the work we were doing. A lot of cities just didn't understand what we were doing putting a second team in a,

and already had a PHM team in it. Well, they now see things differently in some cities that weren't played before. So we have to do that. We have to make deals with venues, the cities that have multiple. We don't want it too small. we don't want it too big. Then we have to have a schedule. And then one of the next things is deciding on the player pool to make sure everyone has the

fairest chance to play in this league as all of us on all sides of this equation wanted. Because we do want the best of the best, no matter where they come from, no matter, PW, PH, International, Collegiate. And wow, I certainly hope that's taken place sometime in August, but I can't promise that. We do need, because these are real humans we're taught, but they need to know where they're living. They need to make their own plans. And in the future, it won't be as rushed as it might be this year. In the future, our calendar will move a little bit and we'll know how to do it better.

But for now, we are drinking out of the fire hose, trying to do a million things at one. So you're telling me not to take any vacation in July or August. I didn't say that, but I will say this. I won't care whether you're on vacation or not. I won't care whether you're on vacation or not. Okay. But listen, no be news when you get back also. Open news.

So go somewhere with cell service is what you're saying. Okay. Don't go anywhere. Don't go anywhere all that remote. There's nothing I enjoy more, nothing I enjoy more than breaking news that no. the media knew about ahead of stuff. I love doing that. So I know you hate to hear that, but that's one of my particular points of pride. Understandable. It's all in the game. We respect it. Yeah. Okay. Well, on that note, Stan, thank you so much for for walking us

through everything. It sounds like it's going to be a really busy but exciting time in the sport. And we're so glad that you were able to come on and do this conversation with us. Right. I look forward to. We'll do this a lot more in the future. Okay. Yes, absolutely. All right. So thanks again to Stan Kasten for coming on the show. We really appreciated his time.

It was great. He was engaging. He gave us stuff. But I also imagine that man is a vault. So I really liked it. I really liked it. I really liked it. I think, you know,

one of the things that I wanted to say too about that is like with the teams and all the conversations everyone's been saying like, well, I think it's going to be here and here and here this many, like I have heard so many different iterations of an original six for this league. It's constantly in flux. It's always changing. And as Stan mentioned, you know, now that the PHF teams are not going to be in those markets, now they can move into those markets, things like that. So I just keep, like, I just want everyone to keep in mind who's tracking this and seeing everything

on Twitter. Like, things are still very much in flux. if I reported out the first original six markets that I heard, you know, in May of 2022 before Mark Walter and Stan Kasten got involved in this, I would look really dumb right now because I don't think those are the original six markets any longer. So I think it's going to be a fun ride. As he said, it's a blank slate. There's going to be so much news to come. And it's all going to happen while I'm on vacation or something. That's right.

So with that, I mean, we talked to Stan for half an hour. We talked about free agency for a while. You talked about Eric Carlson for a while. So I think we're going to end today's episode. We're just going to leave it at that. Keep watching for free agency. Keep watching for all the news and notes from the women's professional hockey league. And we'll be here throughout the summer to talk about it.

There'll be some days where we do take vacation where we won't be around. But it's going to be a busy summer, I think. Biggie summer for you. Not me, though. You're my podcast co-host. So if I want to talk to Kendall Point Schoolfield, you're going to be here too. I will make an exception for her. How about that?

Yeah, that's right. For Captain America. Okay, thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks again to Stan Kasten for coming on the show. Again, we really appreciate the time. We thought it was great. And just a reminder to everyone listening. If you're not an athletic subscriber, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show

to get an annual subscription for $2 a month for 12 months. Bye.