The Athletic Hockey Show - Stanley Cup field is wide open, 2018 draft class defenders excelling in 2024

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Hailey, Max and Sean return to discuss the Stanley Cup contenders in the NHL including Edmonton, Colorado, Vegas, Boston, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Carolina, Florida, Pittsburgh, the Devils and the New York Rangers. They take a closer look at 2018 draft defenders, selected in the first round that are killing it this season: Norris Trophy favorite Quinn Hughes, Rasmus Dahlin, Noah Dobson and Evan Bouchard. Plus we answer your questions in our mailbag, including where to find the best chicken nuggets in Sweden, the available goalies who fit best in New Jersey and if you had to pick one, who makes the hall of fame? Joe Pavelski or Claude Giroux? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Thursday. It's Haley and Max Bolton. And that's right, Sean Gentile. He's back from his mysterious disappearance last week. We said that it was because Michigan won the national championship.

And you didn't want to look at Max for an hour. Can you confirm or deny? I'm always down to look at Max for an hour, if not more, but it wasn't not a factor. Yeah. But yes, we're back. I know it's been a while since we've had a show of just the three of us because the holidays, because the PWHL, because of Michigan, but we're back. And we're over the midway point of the NHL season now.

and the Stanley Cup is anyone else to win. And Dom had a really great piece about how the field is wide open. He had 14 reasonable contenders and very few teams actually separating themselves from the pack. Before we kind of get into some of the teams, can we just talk very quickly about how it's made this season a bit more fun in the sense of like it's not just the Bruins who are running away with things. like the standings are constantly changing, you know, different teams. Like you could reasonably pick again, like more than a dozen teams to say, I'm going to get behind this team. I think it's made it more fun.

I agree. I like a villain as much as anybody else when there's like a big, you know, bad, you know, Kentucky men's basketball in that year. They had all the sure thing first round picks and all that. I think it's good for sports when there's, one of those, but I also think it's good when it is wide open and when so many fan bases have hope. I'm like kind of not to jump ahead, but like thinking of what it's going to mean for the trade deadline. And if there are really 14 NHL DMs that see themselves as a legit Stanley Cup contender,

that maybe breaks a streak of some pretty boring trade deadlines, I feel like, of the last couple years. So that's kind of where my thought goes is that it's good for a bunch of fan bases and having the hope and hopefully for all of us as observers to see teams that believe they can win it because it is fun when you see like a powerhouse get knocked off and that happened in the first round last year. But I also feel like it's good when going in, you know any one of these playoff teams nearly could win the whole thing. Right.

It's not just because we don't have a beast like the Bruins on top of the league either. I think part of it is because there's just so many similarly matched teams, let's say, like stacked between, you know, we'll say like fourth place and 12th place. Like, you got Toronto, Toronto's 12th and points percentage. They're at 595. And then all the way up there still in the six is is Colorado. It's 678. And that's eight, they're eight spots ahead of them, right?

So there's, to me, this, this. seasons more about the middle class, like, kind of jostling it out, like, in that second, in that second tier. Yeah, maybe, maybe the Bruins, the, the Bruins are still up there. The jets are, the jets are, you know, on a run. The Canucks have been a blast in a lot of different ways. But then behind them, if you, like, treat them maybe as the top three, maybe Colorado, with them to an extent. There's a whole bunch of teams that are fighting for position, particularly in the east. So I think that's, I think that's kind of, of one of the different one of the differentiation points too you don't have like sure you don't have

the record setting you know first seed from the moment the puck drops like we got last year in Boston but then that that that middle class I think is is pretty compelling as well when when the teams that are at the top when you talk about like Winnipeg as the highest points percentage team in the league right now I think adds to it because I still don't really believe in Winnipeg as that level to you I know Haley does but like that adds to the intrig that like the team that would be, you know, the team to knock off. I'm still kind of waiting for him to slip on a banana peel and whether that's right or wrong.

I mean, to the Bruins, to a lesser extent, like, the Bruins are still an interesting team to consider as well because, like, they don't really have that without a doubt one scene. I think what makes us having this conversation on January 17th interesting is because of what you mentioned, Max, like the deadline is going to change a lot of these teams and a lot could still change. Like we, you know, I do really like the Winnipeg Jets right now, but like they had a very bad second half last year. They were good in the first half of the season last year and fell off a cliff to the point where like the flames almost made the playoffs because the Jets were so bad

towards the end of the year. So a lot could still change. We're still, you know, just over the midpoint of the NHL season, which I think makes this kind of fun. Vancouver's in that group too. Like I don't want to keep, I don't want to have the Canucks PDO discussion again. I don't want to litigate the luck or lack thereof of Vancouver every single week or on every single pod because I feel like that's part of what happens but like

it's something to pay attention to. Like typically teams don't last for an entire year at the shooting percentage that they are that they are team wine like lots of guys on that team are over 20% like random ones too. So if they keep it up,

great more power to them at all counts. but you also have to acknowledge to some extent that it's not super likely that it does. So you have that, you know, that, yeah, Haley, I think you're totally right. The teams at the top, you know, have warts maybe that we haven't seen in the past. Absolutely. So let's get into a few of these options here. We don't need to get into all of them. I'll quickly list the 14, I guess.

This is from Dom and this is in order of likelihood or, chances at winning the Stanley Cup. So the team that has gotten its way to the top with the best odds, it's the Edmonton Oilers, which I think is interesting. Ian and Julian talked about that on the Wednesday show. So we don't need to get into Oilers too much, but it is notable that they went from being like horrible at the start of the season, losing their coach. McDavid didn't look great. Now they have the best odds at 15% at winning the Stanley Cup at this kind of middle point of the season. Then we've got the Carolina Hurricanes, Winnipeg Jets, Boston, ruins, Dallas stars, Florida Panthers, Colorado Avalanche, Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Rangers,

Pittsburgh Penguins, Vancouver Canucks, L.A. Kings, Vegas Golden Knights, and New Jersey Devils. I think it's very funny that the Canucks have worse odds than the penguins do at this point, and I feel like that's just because Dom's a hater and his model reflects that. But I don't think we need to really get it. PeaO, baby. Yeah. Neil's hot, Neil's Hoggland are shooting 27% or whatever.

It has an adverse effect on a team's projected cup chances according to Don. Which for the uninitiated, PDO, we should probably say PDO, shooting percentage plus save percentage, right? These things like over the league, they average out to about, usually you're going to shoot about 10% as the team. You're going to have about a 90% save percentage. Usually it's going to be about 100, right?

And for the, you know, it could be, could be a little under, but usually about about 100. For the Vancouver Canucks, it's 104.5, I think is what it is right now, Sean, which tells you they're getting about 5% luckier than the average team than you're expecting that you have to think that that's going to progress. And yet, to Sean's point, we've been saying that for literally three months now. Yeah. Some people see that number and some people see that number and get mad.

I don't. I see a team with a 105 PDO. And I'm like, cool, okay, let's see if they can keep it up. It doesn't bother me. Certain people are bothered by it. Certain people with lots of consonants in their last names, perhaps, are bothered by it, but not me. Yeah. Can I just say that I think that PDO being a stat is just kind of annoying?

Like, can we not just talk about shooting percentage and say percentage? Like, we didn't need to put them together, in my opinion. With an acronym that bears no resembling to either of them. I didn't need that in my life. And I'm not an analytics hater. I love expected goal rates. Love coursey. P.D.O. Not for me.

It's a throwback to, you know, 2007 or whatever, whenever stats were named after the internet commenters who realized that they were important. That's what that's all, that's how PTO is. It was some dude named PDO. Just like Fenwick was Matt Fenwick. Like it's just named after whoever's like, oh, yeah. That's what it's named after? Yeah.

Yeah. It was a commenter whose handle was PDO. Who's the Corsi man? Jim, that's Jim Corsi, who was a goaltending coach for the Sabres who kept track a shot at Hems. I'm so glad that we have someone who was around for the invention of stats on the show. Max, say that again. I'm so glad we have someone that was around for the invention of stats on the show. When stats were discovered by the paleontologists of the hockey world.

And that brings up. I was watching, I was watching people fight about numbers about hockey stats on the internet when you guys were, when you guys were in middle school, baby. And that brings us to the first team I want to talk about, and that is the majesty of old man, Sidney Crosby, still playing well. And I say that mostly tongue in cheek. I think Sean and I have discussed this off the show. We have both been on Canadian radio stations in the last few days where we were asked about like, essentially, like, Sydney Crosby is still good at 36 thoughts? Like, isn't this, isn't this miraculous?

And I think, you know, the Penguins are obviously in this list of contenders because of their core. And Sidney Crosby is obviously a very big part of that. He's 36 years old, yes. And he's on pace to score 51 goals this season. And the last time he scored over 50 was 2010. So over a decade ago at this point. like that's like three hockey lifetimes ago for sydney crass because that's because that's

pre-concussion that's pre like dip in the mid in the mid in the mid in the mid 10s team wise when you know penguins coach pen penguins had coaching thing coaching issues whatever that's pre pre uh back to back cups and 16 and 17 and now we're we're like we're like post that so let's say that's like four that that's four hockey lifetimes ago for for sydney crosbie yeah the last court fit It's like literally across the areas of the game. Sean, do you remember during the pandemic we did those rewatch series? And we did one on the Red Wings Penn Stanley Cup final. I don't even remember which one it was.

But what stuck with me was a comment you made in that one. We probably did do both. Of this looks like a different game than the game we know today. This might have been the end of this era. It's right around that time. I think 2010 still fits into that. I don't know what you even want to label it, but it was not the hockey that we watched today.

and he's going to accomplish this in both eras. Yeah, which is like, I think what's so interesting, though, is we had a similar conversation about a Guinea mall thin early in the year, about people thinking, like, you know, why is he not in the top 100 and people being surprised that he's actually been good over the last few years. And I think the Crosby conversation comes with like a question of like, did people not think he was good over the last few years? Like, why are people surprised that Crosby is in fact still good? Is it just because of the age?

Is it because they don't watch the penguins? Because he is, you know, the penguin's best player right now. Josh Yoey did some penguins. He's going to win MVP. If they make the playoffs, I've said this for weeks. If they make the playoffs, he's going to win MVP. Because the narrative is going to be such that, you know, if they make the playoffs, he's also going to have scored 50 goals because that's what they're going to need from him

if they want to make the playoffs. the narrative is going to be going to be too good to pass up. I'm calling it now. Yeah, and I think some of the stats too. This was from Josh Yoey's report cards. Obviously, we already mentioned Crosby's on pace for 51 goals. He currently leads the NHL in faceoff wins, face-offs taken. He scored a bunch of clutch goals for the Penguins this year,

whether it's game winners, game tying goals, just timely goals. And he's top 10 in 5 on 5 points and goals in the NHL right now. And I just think it's interesting because of instead of just like appreciating that Sydney Crosby is still one of the best players in the league, it's this narrative of like what a miracle that this old man is still playing well. And I think, I guess I get it because there are so many young players playing a different style of game, right? We're seeing Connor Bedard and Trevor Zagris, Jack Hughes, the kind of YouTube era like highlights from young players that. people maybe don't like appreciate that Sidney Crosby's still one of the best complete players in the NHL.

What it is for me is we have this kind of like lore in hockey I think especially, but across sports that as players age, their game fundamentally has to change in some way and that you're watching a different player at age 20 than the one you're watching at age 35 because of all these limitations. It's sometimes it's a maturation,

but oftentimes it's like, well, he doesn't have the wheels anymore, so he's got to be this guy. And in my head, I had penciled that in for Sidney Crosby that he was still a top whatever 10 player in the sport. But it was because of his maturity. And he's always had that he's the superstar grinder. That's who he is, right?

But it was because he was the ultimate like checking number one center who could still, you know, dazzle you from from time to time, make these, you know, all world passes and all this stuff. I don't think I thought at any point in the last five years he had 50 goal season in him. I thought if anything, we were just going to see him start to wait. in more like Selkies and stuff like that. Right. Come kind of that Bergeron.

And I think we look for that in athletes. We look for them to adapt and change. And he has, but he's also still Cindy Crosby. But he's not like a Selky forward though, too. Like I like like people keep trying to want to put him in that in that, in that, or put the put that peg in the hole. Yeah. Like he's not that good defensively.

Like he's like he's fine. Like like his he is a, he is a, he is a, an offensive play driver and an offensive producer. First and foremost, still. So I feel like people trying to like route him to the Steve Eiserman. Yes. Trees Bergeron. Next wave of career moment.

Later in the career self, like it is done a disservice to what a transcendent offensive talent this guy still is. Like people threw a little bit too much dirt on his grave when it came, when it is at, with regards to him as an elite offensive player. And it happened way too soon. I think a big part of this too, a big part of this too,

and a big part of the reason I think people seem surprised or shocked or whatever. Part of it can be just celebrate, can just be like, wow, take a look at Sydney Crosby, 36. This is amazing because it is. It's true. Like we typically see, he's at that point now where we see even elite top 10,

top 15 all-time players, this is when they hit the wall. I mentioned Joe Sackett. earlier, he was great until he wasn't. And it was an overnight thing. And it was Drew of Eisenman to an extent too. So he's in that age group now. But I think a big part of it is because of Pittsburgh's 22, 23 season, right?

They stunk. That was a mess. They missed the playoffs. Ron Nexol gets fired. It's like there's just a level of dysfunction organizationally that we hadn't seen from them in a while. And that was the overriding narrative. about that team last season. He scored 90 points.

The narrative, the narrative for that for the last season of Penguin's hockey should have been that they failed Sydney Crosby and that they wasted an, maybe not an all-time season, but something approaching it from a guy at his age. He was unbelievable last year. And that is how bankrupt, bankrupt and blown out

and screwed up that roster was, is that they couldn't even make that stand up. They wasted a prime year. That's what, and it's a tweak, right? It's not like it's all that different from what the O'Ready narrative was, but it's just different enough. And I think that prime the pump for people be like, wow, like he's still super productive in whatever this year. Guess what? He was last year too.

The team just sucked too much for it to matter. Yeah. Okay. Sean, you're talking about that and us pigeonholing him as this silky guy trying to do the Steve Eiseman thing, got my curiosity. So I pulled up the hockey reference page. I need your help, refresh my memory on this. When was the peak of like Crosby concussion fear? That's like 12.15.

Fear. Okay. So it was a, it was a 2011 winter classic was when he was initially injured. And he basically lost. It was like two years after that, right? It was I would say probably leading into the next season, leading into the 2012 season when stuff was really, really ugly. And but he lost, you know, pretty much.

I did the math million years ago. It's bored. to try to figure out how many how many goals and how many points we missed out. And it was like, you know, in the hundreds, obviously. But it was, but it was 2011, 12 and then 12, 13, basically. Yes. He didn't play a full season until 13, 14. 10, it was 10.11 is when it started.

11, 12 was the one that was really screwed up. That was lost. That was the last year. That was 22. He only played 22 games. And then 11th. into 1213, which was the shortened year. There's, am I, I, I was in high school, so help me.

Was there an idea that, like, he's going to be a different player when he comes back? I think it was just like, can this dude stay healthy and stay in the lineup? Because then he got hurt again. He broke his jaw. Like, that was, that was a mess of a year, too, kind of for, kind of for other reasons, right? It was, yeah. It was like, I can, I can say confidently that at that point, it was like, is Sidney Crosby going to be okay?

Is he going to have like something resembling a full, a full career? What's his life going to look like outside of hockey? Like there was concern. It wasn't like, hey, when's this dude going to get back to scoring goals? It is at a 60 goal pace.

So as we then talk about the narrative, okay, prior to that, Sidney Crosby's got one season where he was on a Selky ballot of any kind. He finished 30th for it in 2009. He's still young, but he's had seven,

I think seasons to that point. Since then, starting with the 2012-13 season, he has been getting Selky votes every year but one, which was 2019, 20 when he only played 41 games. And he has been top 20 on all but one of those years in which he got it. So if you want to say, like we just all started saying, Sidney Crosby, like he's going to have to become the Selky guy, you might be able to just track it in the ballots and see us as a hockey media. pigeonholing that in real time. Yeah, I guess he's supposed. Here's what I'll say too.

There were years where that was maybe not true, but close to it, right? Where he was, by his standards, he was playing his best two-way hockey of his career. That's not the way it is anymore. And if you're looking for decline, ironically, over the last couple years, you could start with his defensive impacts.

Like if you're looking in some area where Sydney Crosby's maybe just like, like, you know, starting to show little, itty bitty signs of signs of being born in 1987. Like, it's probably on that side of the puck because God knows we're not seeing it out of, seen it offensively. Sean, three of the bottom four of his expected goals against per 60,

the worst, the worst four, three of the bottom four, the last three seasons, which just doesn't compute. It's funny. It's funny. And like, who am I to sit there and start fights on the internet whenever people talk about Krazzi being on their Selke ballot. Like he shouldn't be. He should be on your heart ballot.

Like don't do, you know, don't do them that disservice. And don't do disservice to the dude who should be fourth or fifth in the Selky ballot that you bump out because you just feel obligated to put Crosby on there. He doesn't deserve it. Bypass it. Vote this man for heart. Don't vote him for Selke. Vote on Zay Kopitar for Selky until he. he retires and no Kings fans will yell at you.

This is the last. We've got to move on from the Crosby conversation. You're like this is, but you know what? I'm like wanting to ditch the entire plan I had for the show because this is so interesting. But like this is the one and I feel like this is going to take a while to sift through. But like when you just look at how good Crosby was and how good the penguins were,

like I always think about this. If the concussions did not happen because they come off their first cup in O. 8.09, right? Crosby's a 100 point player and 09, 10 again, and then the concussion start for those three years. If those concussions do not happen, Sidney Crosby probably has at least one more heart trophy, one more Art Ross trophy, and one more Stanley Cup. Like the Penguins win one more Stanley Cup in there. They don't have to wait until the 16, 17, back to back to win another Cup. They win one in that three-year span, correct? We're all in agreement? Yeah. Yeah. Let's go to the Oilers pretty quickly, just because they are the team that has the highest

odds at winning this Stanley Cup as of right now. I just, Daniel Nugent Bowman had something after they hit their 10th win in a row. They're now at 11 wins in a row after beating the Toronto Make Leafs on Tuesday night, 4 to 2, another blown lead, another loss for the Leafs, by the way. The Oilers are 21 and 6 under their new head coach. They've only allowed 19 goals against over their 11 game win streak. That's less than two goals against per game. They're scoring closer to four goals per game. They're typically winning these games like 4-2, 4-1.

They've become the favorite to win the cup, and they've dug themselves out of the massive hole that they were in. I just think this is what we expected from the Edmonton Oilers, right? Like there's a ton to like about the team. They've got the best player on Earth. They have one of the best top lines in the league right now with McDavid, Newgen Hopkins, and Zach Hyman. Obviously, you get dry sidle on the second line.

They're dominant at 5 on 5. Their defense looks better. Like, Stuart Skinner's average. Like, I feel like this is what we all came into the season, thinking the Oilers were going to be. And that last piece is the key. Stuart Skinner's is average because that was what they were missing. Everything told us that this team shouldn't have been as bad as they were.

There's reasons, in fact, that I think that they looked like McDavid was slumping, but Zach Hyman having this kind of season, if you told anyone that going into the year and that McDavid and Dressetta would be largely healthy, you're thinking this is a runaway cutoffa? Because he's having himself an unbelievable season. And I think it was just goaltending was the key. And if you have an average goaltender, that might be the key. yeah i mean like i i'm i was trying to bring up stew skinner's stats like over the last you know

over the last month or so but it's it's what it's what they need right like it's not i think we think we knew that from the start not to go back to not to go back to pdo necessarily but it's true like they were insanely unlucky um and from a shooting standpoint also insanely lucky unlucky from a from a goal-tending standpoint, right? Here we go. Since December 1st, Stu Skinner is fifth in the league and goals saved above expected, according to evolving hockey.

His adjusted save percentage is 928. So he hasn't been average. He's been great, right? So if you have that, that kind of play combined with, combined with what we've come to expect from McDavid, and all of them, like you guys said,

Zach Hyman's been phenomenal. own, right? Yeah. Like all, all these guys who are producing at a high level, if you throw in a 928 goaltender, who's like top five or top seven for a meaningful stretch in, in any statistic,

man, you are in trouble. They are, they are a problem. Yeah. I guess I should like specify. He hasn't been average lately. I think you just have to like hope he's going to at least be average.

Like if Stuart Skinner is at least an average goalie, the oilers are going to be very good. I think I misspoke. Like he's been very good, but even if he's not, like they're going to be okay. As long as he's not as bad as he was early. It evens out to average,

right? Like, like he was horrendous and now he's, and now he's been really good. Like the end result is you say like this guy's on balance. He's mid. It's just been. Also, like for the Stewart Skinner, by the way,

like I, Jack Campbell took all the slack early on and rightfully so. He was, he was bad. Skinner was very bad at the beginning of season. He was terrible, terrible. Campbell was the frontman for the for the struggles, understandable. But Skinner, Skinner, Skinner deserve some slack there too.

He was no good. And he's up to exactly league average. 903 is exactly league average this season. There you go. People need to get their minds around that because it's the lowest we've seen league average since like 2005. Dude, that's so true. That's such an important.

That's such an important point to make, I think, for. especially for maybe us because you're used to thinking like what's that like 914 910 7 whatever was used as the base line yeah nope yeah interesting good stat pull max we're lucky to have you you know what's one interesting as i was looking through this the vagus golden nights um only have i believe a 3% chance at winning the stanley cup according to dom's model um i think he quoted like pdo in that one as well and I hate it. This has become the PDO cast. Sorry. It's a great name for a pod. You know what?

Somebody should do that. It sounds like a great idea. But yeah, that was one thing that Dom kind of said their fatal flaw was that they used up all their PDO last year and early in the season and the Golden Knights have just been okay. I think the reason to bet on the Golden Knights

is that we've very recently seen them have success in the postseason. But Jack Eichol, he's week to week. after this, I'm sorry, I just thought this was so funny. Lower body surgery, his entire lower body surgery. He's reattached to his upper body. Yeah, Jack Echle's entire lower body was surgically repaired. So he's week to weeks.

That obviously has an impact. But I don't know, I guess I was just surprised that the Golden Knights have dropped off so much after winning a Stanley Cup last year. It's a flip. At least according to Dom. It is, it's a flip of their luck. Like that's kind of what he means by saying they used up all their PDO. And he's saying to some extent they used it up at the start of the season when they were scoring goals at a rate that dramatically outpaced the positions that they're putting themselves in.

I know we, this is, this is a little bit old, but, you know, whatever. It's from, they've played two games since then. But in the three weeks before, you know, while we were on our little holiday break from doing the power. rankings, they were scoring 42% of the goals on 47% of the expected goals, right? So now they're getting unlucky again. And it's like it has that feel to some extent of like the chickens coming home to roost, right? Where they were, they were buoyed by by a hot shooting run and some strong goal pending

at the start. I didn't mean to do that at the start of the season and maybe down the stretch last year. And now it's like the pendulum is swung back and then things are starting to normalize mathematically and they're taking a hit because of it. Yeah, I mean, but there's still like on pace to be a hundred point team. I just find the Vegas Golden Knights so interesting because of their on pace to have 100 points. They're second in the Pacific. They're not a bad team, but I don't know if there's a lot of people who are lining up to say they're going to go back to back.

And I think part of that is because the Jets are playing so well, you know, because of the Aves. Now, I don't think the Aves are a great team this year. I think they have great players, but I also think the abs are a team that could look different potentially after the trade deadline. And I think the Dallas stars and obviously the Canucks and the Kings. Like there's just more to talk about in the West than there was last year, right? Like we talked so much last season about how the East was going to be a dog fight and that everyone just kind of knew like the West. Like look at the, look at Vegas. They're the beast of the West.

And it's kind of switched this season, right? I just love that the abs like McMan approach for the last like month has been while we're going to play Bucoran and and Nate McKinnon 25 minutes tonight like whatever that's it like we're not we're not trying to force feed the remade middle six like yeah we're not trying to play Ryan Johansson 30 minutes you guys you guys you guys take care of business please is there a team that stands out for you Max um the Rangers I guess are the one that I keep when I when I see this vacuum it it's kind of the Rangers for a few reasons I think I think starting with in goal I just look for a team and maybe this is counterintuitive because last year when there was a vacuum it ended up going to the team that I would have said had the least certainty in goal at the time but Aden Hill turned himself into that and so when I see that vacuum I think Eagrish Osterkin's awesome the Rangers are super deep they have all these pieces Temi Panera and Mika Zabanajad they've got a great defense score I kind of keep coming back to them but

At the end of the day, like, I'm not sure that they're a better team than the Carolina Hurricanes in their own division. I'm not sure that they're a better team than the Boston Bruins or the Florida Panthers in the same conference. It's possible they don't get out of the second round. And it's really, it's possible they don't get out of the first round. And I think that's what makes it an exciting year. But that where I stand now, that's kind of where I'm leaning is toward the Rangers. It's wide open. I think what's part of that's because it's just Thurkin.

He's 40th and safe percentage. He's got six and a quarter goal, save the above expect. that dude has been average. He's certainly been not the guy that we've been accustomed to seeing. And I think a ton hinges on his performance specifically. But I guess that's like kind of where I'm coming from is like if you can be where they're at and you know that you have these things, Igor Shusirkin is a better goalie than that. He was my MVP vote two years ago.

Yeah. I think like if they're this good and he's just been average, you're going to get better than average, Igor the rest of the way. And if you get it at the right time, it will lead you directly to a Stanley Cup. I think what's interesting, though, is think of how many of us in our Stanley Cup picks and our playoff picks got burned just by going for, like, who's the better goalie on paper. Like, Igor Shasturkin lost to Vtec Vanichek in the first round when you look at the goalie head to head. Like after the first and second round of the playoffs, you know, Connor Hellebuck, Igor Shostirken, Ilya Seroken, like all the big dogs were out. And we're talking about Aiden Hill, you know, like top dogs.

goalies didn't actually get us much last year to the postseason, which is so interesting because I do feel like even though we saw that last year, all of us still, like, for me, when I'm looking at the Jets, one of the reasons I'm like, I did this on, I was on Sportsnet Radio the other day, and it was like, who do you want, like, how do you rank the Canadian teams

in terms of like who's going to win the playoffs? Like if you had a million dollars, it was a good question, this was J.D. Bunkus. It was like, if you had a million dollars to split up and bet on Canadian teams. Like how are you divvying up the money within your top four or whatever? Are you just putting a mill on the oilers? Are you splitting it between the oilers and the jets? And like I just naturally gravitated towards the Canucks and the Jets because of

Connor Hellebuck and Thatcher Demko, even though we saw last year that that didn't need crap when it came down to it. So I'm going to be really curious to see if that's like a new trend. or it's going to course correct. But like I do think our gut will typically say like, well, I like this goalie better. So I'm going to go with him. And also sometimes like elite goalies just have bad years. Like it's like it happened with Demko.

Like the let, you know, sometimes it doesn't change like their body of work. Maybe it doesn't change how we feel about them in, you know, a macro, in a macro sense. But like it's a weird position. Sometimes dudes have off years. And maybe that's where we are. Shastirkin. Like maybe this is just who he's going to be for the next few months. We're past the point now, though,

where, and I say this because I, because I do the power rings every damn week, and I feel like so many times it's been like, at some point, Scherkin's going to write the ship and whatever, and like, sometimes it just doesn't happen. It's January 17th when, like, that we're recording this. It might not, it just might

not be easier. Yeah. Can I bet the exchange rate equivalent of a million dollars on U.S. teams instead? Sure. absolutely. 740 grand or whatever. There you go. The Canadian dollar is just foul right now.

It really is worthless. It's really not great if you're a Canadian who spends a lot of time in America for whatever reason. Okay, let's wrap up to fire through a few more teams here. I really just wanted to hit the canes because they quietly, in very Carolina fashion, become the favorite to come out of the east. They had a very slow start. I don't know if anyone was actually worried, though.

like I think nobody was really talking about like are the Cain's okay because it was like, yeah, they'll course correct. It'll be fine. Rod will figure it out. Svetchnikov will be healthy again. Yeah, they have the best odds in the East to win the Stanley Cup and get out of the Eastern Conference. The one thing that scares me, though, and this is why the Keynes are a good team to bring up right now, is the goaltending.

They ran back at the goalie duo from the last two seasons, re-signing Freddie Andrews, Anderson and Auntie Ranta in the offseason, Anderson lasted six start before being sidelined with blood clotting issues. And Ranta struggled to the point where he had an AHL assignment. And Kachat Kov's been, I think, just okay. Nine hundred's pay percentage in 23 games. Yeah. Right.

So, yeah, below average slash average adjacent. So I don't know. I feel like the canes are. going to do their thing. I don't know. I just, I, there's no team in the East that I feel comfortable being like, I'm putting all my money on you right now and the canes are kind of one of them. The Cades are doing it because they're scoring goals. Like that power play is sick right now. It's been over 50% for like a protracted amount of time. Aho looks great. Svechnakov looks great. Like they have juice at the top of the lineup. It's just kind of ironic

that now when this seems like it's coming together at the right time after. years of getting solid goalie to play, whether it was Anderson, whether it was Nadalcovich, whether it was Ranta, who'd pick one over the last, over the last however many years. Now it seems like, you know, that could be their problem moving forward. It's fascinating. But that's what's interesting to me is like this Kane's team is giving up more goals than any of like this era of Kane's team. And I don't, they're outscoring it.

And I just don't understand why. Like what has changed? Is it, is it, it's the same cast more or less, is it not? like why are they scoring more than they have ever been able to before? Is it just like it's going to level out eventually kind of thing? Like are we going to be in the first round of the playoffs? But are we going to be in the first round of the playoffs and once again saying like who's going to score for this Keynes team?

Like that's been the conversation when it's mattered most. If Andrej Sfesnikov becomes who everybody thinks he can become like all bets are offered for them. Like that's what it takes. it takes it's going to take one more elite offensive player or something approaching it Svetichikov's been at a point per game so far this season. Seth Jarvis has been really good to and if that's what it is right. If it's a guy like Jarvis who gets better and if it's a guy like Svetnikov who levels up

into being like a legit 85 point 90 point player reliably year in year out and they have a power play that's been as lethal as it is like that's the step that everybody's looked for them the make, right? That's the level that everyone's believe that they've been able to hit. It's just unfortunate that it's coming in a year where Freddie Anderson's hurt, Pieter Kachadkov has been fine and Ronto was bad enough to get waived a few weeks ago. Yeah, and we should, Tara Vinen's having a better year. He's having a bounce back, at least when it comes to production. He already has more goals in 43 games this year than he did last year. And I think that was one of the things that maybe wasn't great for the Keynes last year

in terms of their like scoring up and down the lineup as Terravine and took a step back. He only had 12 goals and 37 points and 68 games, which was a big drop from the 22 and 65 he had the year prior. So I think Terravine and being better, Michael Bunting's been okay. He's got like nine goals, probably they got a bunch of dudes. That's still that that's a really good five on five team. It's getting a little bit more goals there. And the power play's been unreal. Like it's, I don't think it's super complicated.

So quick peek at Cap Friendly says they've. got 6.4 million in projected deadline cap if they take this thing all the way down to March 6th or 8th or whatever it is. That's enough to add a player. Yeah. If knowing everything we just talked about, the goals are going in and goaltending is a question. Golly. But also the history. Mark Andre Fleury.

Are you adding a goalie or are you adding a score? If I, six million is enough to do either of those two things, but probably not both. I think if you have like, by that point, we're going to be talking about 30 games or 35 games of Peter Kichetkov, like we're going to know what he is, like for the foreseeable future by that point. And if he's, if we're still talking about him being 898, 901, say a percentage or whatever, go get Flurry, go get Jacob Markstrom, go get whoever, because that's, that's, that's, let's do it.

Yeah. Tolski. Get it done. Eric. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. That's be calling Eric. I did the beepoo boop for Tankathon last week without, I did the beepoo boop for Tankathon last week without I did that last week on Tankathon and Max was just like, what are you doing?

I was like, this is why I need Sean. He doesn't get it. Because Max is like too serious. I was like, why are you not in a silly, goofy mood? I think I was reading something. John's always in a silly goofy mood. Yeah. Yeah.

Producer Jeff is saying we have to take a break, but like very quickly, very quickly. is Dougie Hamilton Jeff doesn't run this show I do I don't know if that's true he's about to quit his job he's gonna cut he's gonna cut I don't get paid enough to deal with her crap

is Dougie Hamilton enough to make the devil's good in time for the post season that's my very quick devil's question devils are already good enough for the postseason and they just need a save or a couple bounces and Dougie Hamilton's going to help them acquire those bounces. So I'll say yes, but I say the devils are already good.

I think the devils are criminally underrated, given their place in the standings. I think they're still a top 10 team in the NHL, and they don't need to fix anything. Spicey. Except the goaltending. Torne Peck's tough to come back from. Let's see. What did you just say? Oh, Torne Peck.

I thought you said corn. I thought you said corn. Corn. I thought you said something about corn. Anyways, let's take a break. All right, welcome back. We are going to open up the mailbag, but first, there is something that we've been wanting to talk about over the last few weeks, and we're going to do it now, finally, because everyone's actually here. Sean's back.

Because it's the 2018 defenseman draft class that we want to talk about. They're popping off this year. They're playing great. They've continued to play great, and it's something that we've been kind of monitoring and wanting to talk about on the show. Yeah, we waited for Sean. So we're talking about first overall pick, Rasmus Dahlene, playing great. We're talking about seventh overall pick, Quinn Hughes. Excellent.

Except if you're dumb. He doesn't agree. 10th overall pick Evan Bouchard and 12th overall pick, Noah Dobson. That's four number one Domen from the 2018 draft class, killing it in 2023, 24. Max, this is something that you've been super passionate about. It's impressive to have that many good D coming out of the top

12, essentially. It's literally four of the top eight scoring defensemen so far this season. And what's fascinating to me is we knew Rasmus Dahlene coming into the year. Obviously, he had a great year last year, and Quinn Hughes has always been in that grouping. Seems like this is kind of

his year. This is the year of Quinn Hughes. He's the Norris favorite at the midpoint, all that stuff. But it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I noticed how the extent to which Noah Dobson and Evan Bouchard have like fully, fully arrived. And Dobson, I think has been right at that. He's been like a 50 point player and a really good defenseman for a couple of years now. He's now like just a bona fide number one defenseman. And I'm fascinated by the paths that those two guys took. They did not get thrust into the same like immediate giant minutes role that guys like Dalian and Hughes did.

And so to see them kind of arrive and end up at the same conclusion, it just fascinated. me. And we haven't even mentioned Kandre Miller yet in that conversation. Right. Yeah. Pick in that same class. Different style of guy. But like, I think a clear cut, not 4D, and I think I would argue a top pair of quality D. So

fascinating to me of how good this class has been so far. Yeah, he's 22nd overall. Head of the season when we were doing the Player Tiers project, I had an NHL director of amateur scouting. Tell me,

like, he'd basically he signed off on most of the, most of the work that we did with the, with the player tears, which is always good. Like, he didn't screw anything up, whatever. But he said, the biggest mistake that you made was leaving Noah Dobson out of this list.

Like, he was, that was his, that was his thing. That was the thing that he banged the table for. He was like, he was like, this dude is already really good. He's going to get better.

Every time we play against him, like, like, like, I tell, I tell our guys, like, he's the one you get, you have to account for. And it's not that, not, I mean, whatever. Did he make it into the tears? Like, no. But he was in the discussion to an extent because of guys like that scouting director who, you know, kind of made the case for him.

And now on January 17th, whenever we maybe do some kind of like revisit midseason revisiting of this coming up soon, he's going to be in the mix because he's been really, really, really good. I know he's not in the same tier, but Sean Dersey was in the 2018 draft as well. And he's a top 10 score out of the 2018 draft class. So I just kind of filtered it on elite prospects. Brady Kachuk is the highest scoring player from the 2018 draft class. He was the fourth overall pick. But Quinn Hughes is number two overall, the highest scoring defender, then Rosmas Dahlene, then Noah Dobson, then Evan Bouchard,

Kandrey, and then Sean Jersey. So a ton of really impressive offensively gifted defenders from that draft class. Absolutely. And Bouchard, I think, too. Like, we're focusing on Dobson for good reason. Like, he's having a career year. And like Bouchard, like, you look at the underlying numbers that he's turning in. This was the guy that like you thought, okay, yeah, really slick brain.

Obviously has a lot of offense, big shot. But is he going to be able to be the like all around horse that you really wanted? And he just turned it into a resounding. Yeah. What fascinates me the most about it is the difference in paths. I think we're so eager that if a guy doesn't become it in his first one, two years, but like Noah Dobson's first year in the NHL, he played like 34 games and was getting 13 minutes a night.

And then year two, he's getting 16 minutes a night. And you're kind of like, yeah, he's a top for the. But if you look at like his last two seasons, like Sean, you talk about the player chair project. Like what, what differentiates his last two seasons from Moritz Cider? Just that Moritz cider was meaner. And now this year it explodes.

And in Bouchard, I think, like, I don't know. I'm almost going to get lost trying to talk about this stuff. Well, because what Dobson turned into last year was like an all-situations horse where he was playing huge minutes in so many different phases of the game. And I think that was that leap that he made last year for sure, for sure. Yeah. These guys are, these guys are good. Best class since what?

Like, is this for you? Does this start to get into the territory of 08? 08, Dowdy, Patrangelo, Carlson, Bogosian, Shen. Like, are they there for you? I think so. The high end? Absolutely. Like, like, you take the top, you take, I'll take the top five in this class versus the top five in that one. Maybe, maybe not, I mean, whatever.

I would. I think so. I think so. Do we have, like, is there like a no doubt hall of faint, like, like, Drew Doughties, whatever, he's a whole. Famer. Carlson's Hall of Famer. Carlson's Hall of Famer. I think Patrangelo get, maybe. Yeah. Those guys are great, but five, though, because that's when you start talking about Bogosian and Chen, who were like tenured NHL players, like solid dudes, right? But by the time it's all said and done, are you going to take them

over? Are you going to take over? Oh, you're right. You're taking Keandre. Schard or Keondry Miller or Dobson. I don't know about that. Drew Doughty was second overall pick, then Zach Wigosian, number two, number three, excuse me, number four, Alex Petterangelo, then number five was Luke Shen. And those were the top demon. Tyler Myers was in that draft class. 12th overall. Eric Carlson was 15.

That's actually very funny. I think the high end, like, again, top three is probably, is, oh, wait, has, has a lick there. but I think when you get into that like four to six, four to seven range, especially with the dude like Dersey who's who's looking like he's. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Sandin, no. I mean, I'm saying if you if you if you will say consensus, you know, right now we think that Quinn and Dahlian are the are the two are

the two best in that group, right? But then the drop off between them and I don't know, like how how three years from now how how drastic is is a drop. off from those two to like Dobson and Bouchard. Probably probably not that bad. It's not that bad now. Yeah. Right. Totally.

You're right. I'm like, I'm like afraid. I'm like afraid to even. Well, I think the problem that maybe is like a hint of criticism of Quinn Hughes just because. Right. Just because that's a alarm that goes off for people.

I think the problem for people who might be listening to this conversation that they might be having is the fact that like some of the guys. from the top of that 2008 draft class, like they've won. They've won Norris trophies. They've won Stanley Cups, right? Like, it's hard to look at Drew Dowdy's resume and say, like, I would rather have Quinn Hughes over Drew Dowdy.

Even though the way that Quinn Hughes plays now, you would rather have him than Drew Dowdy, but you look at what Drew Dowdy accomplished over his career. I mean, he's still each minute. So I think it's hard to make that comparable because they play such different games. And Drew's actually, like, done something. And I'm not even saying that Quinn,

I'm not trying to suggest, like, Quinn Hughes is a bomb because he, you know, didn't win a Norris trophy in 2010 or whatever I was. And that's, for the record, that's not, that's not, that's not, the comp that I'm trying to draw. I'm saying, like,

by the time it's all said and done, it's like, would I rather have Bouchard versus Bogosian? Like, probably, like, or, or, or Dobson versus, you know,

Luke Shen, like, I mean, you have to. I think so. You have to. But I get Haley's point is that like the reason that that this has snuck up on us is because if one of these guys had won a cup by now, we would have already been doing this. But so many of them have their teams are stuck.

It's Dobson has had the most playoff success. And he wasn't in that big of a role yet because the Islanders were doing the Islander thing. Yeah. But I think it like I would take the 2018 class like ASAP. As Sean said, I would, yeah, I'd rather have. Sean Dersey as the fifth best over who, who is that? Tyler Myers or whatever. Jake Gardner was 17th overall that year, you know?

Poor Jay Gardner. Yeah, I'd rather have Keandre Miller than Michael Delzato. Or even Ben Bogotian and Shen. If you want your big body physical guy, you take him over the guys that went in the top five in a way. Don't say anything bad about Luke Chen. I'm the president of- Awesome players, valuable players. Luke's troops.

Trademark. By who? By me. Still patent pending. Really, the fact that I grew up in Toronto, like I was the target demographic for the Leafs, bringing in Luke Shen last year.

It was me. Ten-year-old Haley was like, oh my God, this is the greatest day of my life. He has had, that man has had an enviable career. Like he's made a ton of money. He's been on a lot of good teams. He's carved out of reputation as one of like the best dudes in the league.

Like I'll take Luke Shen's career a thousand times out of a thousand. Just don't think he's a better hockey player than no adopts. No offense. I love that he has gotten more appreciated the more he's called. He gets a three-year deal at 2.75 last offseason. When was the last time he was making 2.75? Was it like his second contract, I think? He's making 3.6 on his second deal.

He signed the big one with the, when was that? With the Leafs, yeah, 2011. It was a big one with the Leafs, wasn't it? Yeah. And everyone since then has been like 1.2, 8, 7, 8, 8.5, sorry, 850. 700,000, 800,000, yeah. Yeah, and now he gets the big one. He had more appreciated with age.

I think that's awesome. Yeah. Luke's troops. Join us. Stupid as crap. Okay, let's get to the mailbag here. That was a good topic. I wish we could have spent more time on it,

but we talked about Cineat Crosby for an hour and a half. And that's fine. Oh, well. We did get some good questions on Twitter here. Let's start with a quick one. Max, this is for you. It's from Lars. Which Swedish city has the best chicken nuggets?

Gothenburg or Stockholm. Lars is on a mission to make me tell this story on as many podcasts as possible. Okay. This sounds like an insane question. This sounds like an insight. Yeah, I feel like there's some context that's missing here. It's not, I just, I don't think, I don't see why I should have to, to take crap for this. I was jet lagged in Gothenburg, the first time I ever left the continent.

And I didn't know that every restaurant was going to be closed on Sundays in Sweden, except for McDonald's. And so I ate my first meal in Sweden was McDonald's chicken nuggets. They weren't good because they had like no salt on them probably because we're so unhealthy here in America. Yeah. Where's the sodium? But I've been taking McDonald's secret ingredient, baby, it's sodium. I've been taking crap for this ever since that I, my first meal in Sweden was McDonald's chicken nuggets. I didn't, I haven't had them in Gothenburg.

I don't know why you're taking shit for that. That's what I'm saying. I feel I feel like I was duped into asking that question. I thought there was like a funny story, but you just went to McDonald's. So whatever. Good for you. Congratulations on all your success.

Okay. I'm glad you went to McDonald's. I've actually always wanted to go to McDonald's in like Japan or France or something because it actually looks good. Oh, the menu at the McDonald's, I'm going way off track. The menu at McDonald's in Copenhagen looked. wild. They had like a quinoa salad and I was like I'm not doing that. Well, that's the thing is like the menus are different. Like they have like the burgers look actually like real burgers and stuff like that. So can you imagine going to McDonald's and getting a quinoa salad? No. If we start getting into McDonald's slander on this pot and I'm pulling the plug.

No, no. I look. I like McDonald's. I like slandering McDonald's as a concept. Oh, it doesn't look like real like maybe the menu's better. McDonald's menu is better. McDonald's menu is already perfect. Sean, I'm gluten intolerant. I can't eat at McDonald's. The point is that oh you are I had no I had no idea. God damn it. Now I'm upset. Um, okay, let's go to this question from Jason who is asking if he no longer needs to pay the troll toll toll in the athletic comment section. You do. You do. You need to you need to pay it in pennies and you send it to Craig Custins at 1, 2, 3, 4,

Boogie Wogie Avenue, Sterling Heights, Michigan. I miss Craig. What's he doing now? What's he doing these days? Nothing. Screwing around. Does he have a job anymore?

Anybody's guess. Next question. Okay. The question from Jason actually is, if you're Devils GM, Tom Fitzgerald, what goalie in the market would make the most sense

for this team? Mark Andre Fleury. man do we are we just going to say flurry or markstrom for okay but flurry would have a relationship with tom fitzgerald yes he does just call up his friend mark yes he does do people call him mark or mark andre in person i have this problem with poolin all the time like do i call you marie or marie philippe depends i just say hey i just say hey how's it going mark you get a lot of flour in person a lot of people just call him flour you know what I've actually become that cringe person who sometimes will say like I'll just call poo and poo and I'm like no it's tough don't I hate the nickname bullshit I've become that person yeah I said I called her poo on national TV last weekend and I was like really upset about it honestly anyways Tom Fitzgerald and Bill Guerrian Tom and Sherald and Bill Guerrian have been professionally and personally linked for decades at this point yeah Is Florey like a definite upgrade? Is he a definite upgrade in 2020? Over Vanichick, yes. Okay, but his overall numbers are just fine.

He's like a negative five goals again, a goal saved above expected goalie right now. I think, I still think like when we're talking about Flurry, like he's got the pedigree, he's got three cups. I think he would be good to like insulate. I'll take him, I'll take him a playoff series over Vec Vec Vec, a hundred times out of 100. That's the consideration though, right?

Is like look at Flurry's track record. And like maybe his stat line isn't as good at, like it's not a top 10 stat line. He's a sub-900 goalie right now when you look at the entire season. But he's playing better lately. He started nine of the last 10 for the wild. He's been better. He's been their number one. He makes two and a half million dollars less against the cap for two less full seasons than Jacob

Markstrom. I was trying to get Marks from in Calgary. I want Marksham to go to Carolina and I went Flurry to go to the Devils. Okay, can I Galaxy Brain? Yes. Is there a way? Trevor Zegris and Jack Hughes had that dynamic at the program. What are you about to do?

Is there a package where you can ship Zegris and Gibson to New Jersey and offload money the ducks are going to need a young defenseman. I don't know if it's John Marino, Jonas Seganthaler, or I mean, obviously there's a pick in here somewhere too. Can you work something out where the ducks retain some on Gibson? They trade Zegris.

They get back a forward, a young D, and a pick, and we can do that. Can I galaxy? The cap on the cap. I love how complicated the cap and that would get because the devils need to send,

would need to send out obviously significant money. Because they have none. they have no cap space. So Gibson makes a ton Zegris, you know, as we know. But you're retaining on Gibson and you're probably sending Vannacheck back.

So we'll say that. So it's 3.4. I love this. I wish I could just sit here for five first round picks. But like what like how much value does John Gibson have? I don't think it's the Zegris of it all. Okay, but it's Zegris. But do you think that they?

And it's the fact that there's a. ton of teams. There's a ton of teams that need goalies right now. So there is going to be like a, I think even if Gibson's not like the best option on the market, like a value of Gibson will go up because a lot of teams are going to want a goalie. Think of how many teams goalie situation sucks. We're talking about the canes, the devils, the leaps, the leaps. There's more than just that. Yeah. Zegreis is the more interesting part of it to me. Like, like, do you, And what would the Ducks want? Is Alexander Holtz?

Is that like the start of a, is that like the start of a package that you send back? Do you even want to do that if you're New Jersey at this point? Like, I don't know. I love it. I love it, though. Whether, I mean, you could, you could, I just think for the ducks,

there's got to be a way to get a good young D. They don't have to be super young. I'm not saying it has to be like a Simon Nemitz young, although I was going to say, what they get rid of, I was going to, I was going to, I was going to bring up him. Is he tradable for the devil for the devil?

devils if it's deep written john gibson coming in return i think so do you think but max you think that do you think that docks need like a d coming back as as the main piece there i guess that's more the question like where they have so many centers and they just lost drive scale drive yeah like minchikov and in those in that that crew that career guys like did they need one more added that group now i think that's right Like a right shot maybe. Nemich? Yeah.

I mean, I think you could maybe draft it this year. But like I just think like, Marina. I don't know. I, I'm completely pulling this out of nowhere galaxy branding, but it's just like,

I thought Gibson and I thought, wait, can Zegris be in this? Because the Zegris and Hughes Factor. It'd be fun. I think, I think Shane, I just wrote something about that,

by the way, like a like a Zegris. I might, I might be making this up. But I, she wrote, she wrote, what's next for Zegris.

kind of thing. Well, it was like, could he be traded? Should he be traded? And what teams, like, what teams should make the call? And she did not include the devils. I get why you wouldn't off base, because they already have like Hughes, Brett, they kind of have the small skill. That's the problem.

I don't think, I don't think Tom Fitzgerald makes that trade. Because that was the consideration with the whole Johnny Goddrow thing is like, well, we've already got small skills players. So if you don't want Johnny Godreau coming up. Yeah, yeah. He plays like he's 6-1. But like if you're not going to trade for Johnny Goodro. You're talking about Zegers.

Like he's, you know, Cole Coughield or something. Don't got that. He's not a little guy. He's not just a little guy. Cole Cawfield did like a little let's go girls before the Montreal game. He's like to quote Shania Twain, let's go girls. And then he just went like, And the clip ended.

And I'm like, I'm obsessed with Cole Cawfield. He ran away on his tiptoes. Cute little boy. Yeah, he's like, he's the best, huge fan. Okay, let's move on. I love that Galaxy Brain Max. I think it's amazing. I think we should all try to will it into the existence in 2024.

This is from Eric. And I think this fits well with what we talked about for most of the first segment. It's why I didn't bring up the Florida Panthers. but Eric wants to know why are the Panthers so under the radar this year, even though they are one of the kind of top contenders in the Eastern Conference. Sean, you like the Panthers. I love the Panthers. You can take this one.

Why does nobody else love the Panthers? Why does nobody talk about the Panthers? I think it's Atlantic Division stuff. I think it's, I think it's Leaves bias, probably, towards the discussion where I think people just like talking about the Leafs Division. I think talking about the Bruins and I think the lightning are compelling, probably not for the reasons that they, that they necessarily want to be. There's like that whole, the whole, the rest of the, of, on the, on the back end of the Atlantic division, you know, people are fat like this, the sends are a mess and the sabres are disappointing and the red wings are kind of in the middle and went out and got Patrick Kane and whatever. You have all these like compelling storylines in that division.

And then for the Panthers, it's just like, yeah, they're really, they're really good again. they dealt with the injuries early in the season. Kachuk's heating up, you know, on and on, you know, Barkov Selky caliber year, an actual Selky caliber year, not a fake Selky caliber year like Sydney Crowley. Yeah. Like, I think people just take them for granted at this point after two. I mean, I know that, you know, coaching change and all that stuff,

but I think they've been good for a couple years now, especially during the regular season. I think people just kind of take them for granted. I agree. And I think one guy who I certainly had ridden off years ago, who was having a great year, Sergey Bobrovsky was not, you know, right about that at all. And I think he used to me a very real chance every single night. And we all thought that contract was doomed.

And it honestly, pretty fine. Yeah, I thought last year was going to be it for him. That was like the, that was like the season beginning prediction I made at the start of 22, 23 was like, this is the year the contract comes to roost and they get bit in the ass by it and they're going to have to just bench him and roll with Spencer night that was my prediction for 22 23 didn't turn out to be the case so after that I was like I think I'm done I think I'm just done saying that the bottom's going to fall out on on this guy because we know like he might he is he going to be viz in the caliber like probably not but he's also not going to be unplayable or whatever and

I think a lot of people including me at times over the last couple years have expected that to be case. Yeah. And part of it was we expected Spencer Knight to be kicking the door down for the net. And it just hasn't happened. And it is a reminder that especially in goal at every position, but especially in goal, you cannot just assume that your top prospect is the answer. A lot of stuff happens, man.

Life happens and whatever else. Okay. Last question. And there were a number of really good PWHL questions in here. And I just don't think we have time to get to them today. But we can always do a PWHL mailbag. or have a bigger PWHL segment in future weeks. Like we'll be around.

We're not going anywhere and we'll keep talking about the league when we can. But this was the first time we kind of all got together for an NHL pod. So I really liked this question for Samuel, from Samuel, excuse me, and said, I find it interesting that heading into Thursday, Claude Drew and Joe Pavelski have the same total number of career points at 140. My question is, if you could only choose one to make it to the Hall of Fame, who would you pick and why?

between Claudeau and Joe Pavelski. No cups. I think Drew had the better peak. Mm-hmm. But I think Pavelsky has kind of completed the arc. Like in terms of the longevity, we talked about kind of getting better as you age. I don't know if he's better,

but he's every bit the beast that he ever was. I think he's there. I think it's Pavelsky. They're both Hall of Famers. But Drew is still good. Of course. Of course. Drew's still a point per game.

Drew's a point per game player right now. I think people are like, I'm not suggesting that you're forgetting this, but I think in all the conversations that have gone on about the Ottawa senators this season and last, like people are maybe not remembering how effective Claude Drew has still been

for that team. He had 35 goals last year. He's got 38 points and 39 games and that team's been a mess. So I don't want to write off Claude Drew, but I think, yeah, and I agree with Sean. They're both getting to the Hall of Fame. But if we had to pick one,

Sean, who do you think? I think the last few years of Hince Robertson Pavelski have probably vaulted Joe ahead of ahead of joy. But I think they're really, really close

and I think that just look at the production. I think there's, I think Jure still has the still has he's younger, first off, by a few years. And also has that has that has that has that ability to have that late career kick, you know, where he's maybe, where you could

easily imagine him being part of some good sense teams down the line for as bad as, for as bad as things are right now. A year from now, he could be easily could be talking about, oh, yeah, Clodger is, you know, bringing this to the number three in the Atlantic Division, Ottawa Senators or whatever. Yeah, like old 39-year-old Clodrew playing on the top line with Brady Cichuk and Josh Norris and, like just tapping in. And Maclin Celebrini, yes. How depressing is it, by the way?

I was just trying to think. I was going to see if there's something there about like Pavelsky and where does he stack up with like the great old guys without a cup of the last like decade or two decades. Yeah. And I was just thinking every single one of the guys I was going to name was a shark. Like Marlow. It's just the sharks.

Those teams are so. Those teams were so good. I did a little mini deep dive back into. it whenever we had to do that. We threw together like a how like a cup winning team ranking in the salary cap era

that ran over the holiday and it really was man. You just go through it every year and it's like, oh, this team beat like they got past the sharks and they get a bunch of points for that because the sharks were really good.

You said it like four or five different times, right? They were, that's the best, that's the best core not to win a cup that we've seen in quite a while. Yeah, and the team that we didn't really talk about at the first segment where we're talking about cup contenders, like I'm still on the stars wagon. Their top nine is unbelievably. Yeah, we didn't talk with the sharks.

It's the Dallas Stars wagon. And I think that like if Pavelsky wins a cup with the Dallas Stars, that makes that debate a little bit easier in terms of like who gets in first or if you had to pick one. Because I feel like if one of those two is going to win a cup, it's going to be Joe Pavelski in the next like two years. A preseason pick, baby. Me too. I love the Dallas stars. I love that top nine. Go stars. Also, Joe Thornton's number 19 jersey is going to be retired in San Jose during the 2024-25 season. The team announced that on Wednesday afternoon. Well, deserved snaps. Absolutely. All-timer. Yeah, love it. I've got some musty TV on TNT tonight, courtesy of producer Jeff here.

That's old news. That's why I didn't bring it up. No, no. this is coming out on Thursday. This is, it's Wednesday. True. Whoops. If you're listening to this, you would have watched that TNT game, though. Let us know what you think. Oh, wasn't that crazy to have the TNT studio guys calling a game from the studio because of weather stuff in Buffalo?

Who, boy. That is crazy, though. Let us know what you thought about the game because we haven't seen it yet. Let's know in the comments. once you watch it on Wednesday night. Thursday morning. Good luck to Liam McHugh. I'm sure he did a great job.

Wrangling, Ranglin Biz and Nathan Carter and Henrik Lundquist. He doesn't get enough credit. Very good hose. This is a pro-Lean household. We should have Liam on the pot. He would, he's really funny.

He would come on. He'd be, we should do that. Yeah. Let's do it. Jeff, let's do it. Sounds great. That's the end of the show. We all missed each other very much because we talked for a long time. So I hope everybody enjoyed this really long and rambling episode of the athletic hockey show.

Please, please, please give us a five-star rating and review if you want us to talk for more than it. Yeah, you don't want Max to cry. I will cry like I cried while watching past lives last week. There was like full like, you know what? I'm not even going to say it. I'm not even going to say it. You know what? I will. I already teased it. There was like full booger. You know, there was like tears, boogers. I was like,

so that's a comedian say booger. It is. It is. It's a booger. It's unsettling. It's, you say it's bugger? Yeah. It's as bad as pasta or Mazda. That's, no, that's unconstitutional. I don't, don't insult me. Nasda. Mazda. A Mazda. What do you say? Mazda. Mazda. Mazda. Like a matzable.

I say pasta, not pasta. I'm Italian. Don't insult me. Gintzo. Bougar is weird. Do you say caramel or caramel? Neither.

I just don't say it. Caramel? I just, I never, I, it's not my thing. I've never had to say it. That's what they say. What do you say?

I'd probably say caramel. I don't know, but I don't, it's not something, I don't eat that. Is there, is there, is there peanut oil and, in, I feel like there's probably, there's probably a good dovetail between caramel. Yeah. Like, isn't, isn't Butterfinger that or I don't know? No. No way to find out.

Yeah. No. No. We just lost one of our five stars, but if it's a four star review, I will cry. Thanks everyone for listening. Caramel or caramel, whichever you want me to do. Caramel. Caramel, that wasn't it.

Yeah. Please give us a five-star rating and review. Guys, follow us on YouTube as well. YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. And right now you can get a one-year subscription to the athletic for $2 a month when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. The next episode of the athletic hockey show goes down on Friday with the prospect series with Corey Cromman, Scott Wheeler, and Max.

Boltman, give him five stars on Fridays as well. Or he'll like eat a peanut and have to go to the hospital. Thanks everybody. Eat a peanut. What's wrong with you?