The Athletic Hockey Show - Stars-Golden Knights series shines in 1st round

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Hailey, Max and Sean discuss the epic first round series between Dallas and the Golden Knights, in which Jake Oettinger and the Stars lead 3 games to 2. They talk about the mature Oilers eliminating the LA Kings, Hailey gets called out for backing the Jets over the Avalanche and they look ahead to tonight's game 6 in Toronto between the Maple Leafs and Bruins.Plus, the coaching carousel in the NHL could be headlined by Rod Brind'Amour and Mike Sullivan this summer, with both all-star coaches possibly being available in free agency to the highest bidder, this summer.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everybody? It's another Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley, Max, and Sean. We're heading into the final weekend of the first round of the playoffs. Only one game tonight, a couple good ones last night. What's up, guys? Ready to be done with the first round?

For the first time, in a long time, yes. I mean, the only series that's holding the attention is the one, you know, Dallas Vegas that seems like it could go seven. it's been really just a bloodbath. Am I, I, I think I'm like kind of on an island here. I've been relatively entertained. I think part of it is because Nashville, Vancouver is a slop fest and I, I'm kind of down with it. I can enjoy it.

Bruins leaves took an up swing in the last, in the last couple of days. I don't know. I'm like, I get it. I get it because the first round of the NHL playoffs should be, the highlight, to me, that should be the highlight of the calendar in the hockey year. So I get it. It hasn't been great. But I feel like we've swung too far in other direction now.

And part of that, admittedly, is because I'm biased in favor of the slop that we're getting in Nashville, Vancouver. Like, I'll take it. It's fine. Isn't it diminished, though, by, like, doesn't it just feel like whoever gets out of that series is it's five games against Edmonton? Like, that's what's what I'm struggling with. I guess. To what end, you know? That is that there's always one series every year where it's like,

okay, congrats, you got out of the first round. Like, now you're dead. It's lambs. Good luck. Yeah. Lams marching to slaughter. Yeah. I guess so.

I'm sure we'll talk about this in a little bit more depth later on. But like, I'm not an Oilers hater, but I'm not going to, going to believe they can do it until they can do it. I'm there. Well, because they, especially when you know that they have to play the abs in the second round. I've gotten into arguments with Dom about this on and off all season long. I'm like, yeah, I get it. Intellectually, I get it.

They're certainly better than they haven't in the past. But like, I don't know. It's a, I'm in show me mode with them, I think. Sorry, I made a mistake there. They play the winner of Canucks Preds. Yeah, yeah. That's my fault. I don't know why I said the aves.

But they would have to get through them or the stars to go on a cup run too. I mean, the West does look like the tougher conference. I just like we're now at a point with the Oilers, I think, where when you want to like kind of like the mental tests I ask myself is like when a team needs a goal, like who do they have that can get it? And the Oilers now have like seven answers to that question. Like Corey Perry is still an answer to that question in a dirty, ugly playoff game of Andrew Kane is an answer to that question. Obviously you have the two big answers to that question. Zach Hyman is like a bold, bold face type answer to that question.

I'm forgetting people here. Tied for the league lead and goals right now. Zach Hyman has seven. Yeah, he's been great. Larry Nachushchevian. So to me they pass the test. I'm there. I'm not going to like pull back on the stars prediction

because we've been there since the start of the year, but I would kind of like to honestly. Yeah. I was a little worried about the stars going down. Oh, and two. the series has been, so let's get it back to stars Golden Knights because I mean, I think this has been the best series of the first round in terms of what it's delivering. The series is three to two in favor of Dallas. Jake Ottinger looks like he's back. He's been excellent since going down

0 and 2. He has not allowed a goal in the third period or overtime yet in this series. So he's been great. But the series itself, like the games have just been fun. There's been good goals, big hits, huge saves. It kind of has a mix of everything. And the series itself is close. So I think they've been kind of saving the first round for me because I think we went into this like in the first round preview. I think the amount of times I said, oh my God, I'm so excited for the first round. It was like embarrassing. And it hasn't lived up to how excited I think I was. And I think Sean and I had this conversation actually. So it's interesting that Sean is now reversed course on saying the first round hasn't been that bad, but just how like every series had a team that was just like

definitively better. And we shouldn't actually be that surprise that Florida beat Tampa 4 to 1. I think you can come up with reasons to believe that that series was going to be closer and more exciting. But Florida was the better team. Carolina, the better team over the islanders, Rangers better than the caps. So what were we really expecting? But I do think usually those games have a little bit more juice. They go a little bit longer. So I think that's maybe where a bit of the letdown comes from,

but I don't think it should be a shock. The biggest letdown was Avs Jets, but we'll get into that in a minute. I think on my end, it's more that they drop down the expectation so far after the first two or three or four games of these series that as we've seen some stuff tighten up over the last couple of days, that's when I'm like, yeah, okay. this isn't as bad. It might be overblown for the criticism might be

for how rough the first round spent. So am I grading on a curve? Like, yeah. Yeah. You're basically saying that Stars Vegas and like Leif's Oilers, or Leif's Bruins have been good. I'm saying that Leaves Bruins is not be caught by virtue of the Leafs winning the last game and making at least something of this.

Because now you can look at it. you say Bruins are tightening up because of what happened last year. Like you can sort of find little kernels of interest or drama. Yeah. That weren't there before because of what's happened over the last couple days. Does that, does that, is that enough to sustain yourself like for an entire round of hockey? Like probably not. Does that make this like overall like a high end, a high end first round?

No. But it's better than what we thought. we were getting a couple days ago when it was like yeah you know uh every series is on the brink of being over and Vegas when everybody when people yeah but even when like that like Dallas was up right like like it it seemed like that was maybe gonna or Vegas was up it seemed like that was gonna maybe be so now you're talking about the stars came back in the brun and the in the in the leaps are trying to claw their way back into it and preads uh Knox is still going on and all this stuff like that those are series did three days ago or four days ago,

I figured it would be done by now. So the fact that we have any kind of interest, you know, still kind of circulating there, it at least made me like amend my original stance, at least a bit. That's almost what's like fueling me agreeing with Haley here that like, like I just,

this series other than Dallas Vegas has been for the birds. Like most years I'm with you, Sean, like I'm looking for any excuse to believe a series could go seven. I want every series to go seven games, max drama, And this year at like, you know, every series basically was three one. I'm, I wasn't rooting for this at all.

I want it. I just wanted to get on to the next thing. You know, makes sense. And so to me it's like, you know, I don't, this is going to sound kind of rude. Like some of these are going to be fake six game series, right? Like if the Bruins polish this off, if the Kinnucks polish it off, they're going to feel like fake six gamers that like the team that lost was never really in. And to me, that's like, when it went, when it's four or five, you're like, yeah,

that wasn't a series. When it's six or seven, you go, that was a. real series. And to me, when it, in a couple of cases here, if the dominant team take, you know, takes this in six games, it's going to feel like a fake six to me. If a team goes up three, one in the series still ends up being five or six games, like, history is probably not going to look too kindly on that one, right? Like, like, yeah, six, but with an asterisk. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm just trying to like gin up some excitement in myself to pay attention to games over the next

couple days because like I said three days ago I was totally disconnected from all this I was I was in max mode like just let's just press fast forward and get their round two here I don't feel that way anymore so I think that's that personally

for the sake of my work and in the way the next couple days are going to unfold for me I think that's a good thing right do you want to see Dallas Vegas go seven of course I want to see I like totally I'll take I'll take seven games between anybody

I don't care I don't care how they get there but I think like the three series that are still going on are the ones that would be fun to see go seven but like it's three out of eight like that's the difference is like there are interesting like matchups in this first round

it's just less than half of them have like some real juice so before we tee up Bruins leaves before we maybe get into Canucks Preds. Let's talk a little bit more about Dallas Vegas. Dallas, they have a three, two lead on the series. Vegas is on the brink. What did you guys think last night? I mean, I thought the huge, like, passing play with Stan Coven, like, that pass was, like, unbelievable. That was clearly a highlight of the game, but also Jake Ottinger. Like, I really can't.

We talked a lot about this Dallas team and, like, can they win with Jake Ottinger being pedestrian? And he has been so much better, especially after going down own two. What do you guys think? Is Jake Ottinger back? I think so. I think he's close to being back as you're going to get without having some stretch where he stops 72 is 75, right? or whatever. Whatever it was against the planes.

Two lights out, two lights out games and when it has a 65 save game and a triple in a triple overtime, you know, whatever. So I think the issue for me has been, there have been some softies and that was kind of, I thought that was a storyline or it seemed like it was going to be early,

uh, yesterday because they, he gives up two goals in the, in the first one's a tip in on a power play like fine. Everyone, everyone writes those off as, as it should be. second one was brutal.

Like it was, it was, there was a puck behind the net. He lost, he lost the guy and lost his post. And it was, it was a wrap around that just shouldn't happen. So you're watching that in round one.

And because we've seen so much inconsistency for Montinger really since the start of the season, like, and even, even at the start of this series after finishing strong, looks like he's back, but is he not, whatever.

I was interested to see how he would respond for like for the rest of that game, honestly. And we got it, we got it. We got our answer. He was really, really good down the stretch and now they're up. And he was a huge part of why we all believed in the stars all season long, right? He gave them that really complete feel that this was a team that's deep offensively.

They have one of the best defensemen in the NHL in Hayeskin. And they trade for one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL. And they have one of those, whatever, eight to ten goalies that you actually feel good about anchoring you for a playoff run. He's a big part of that picture. If you take him away, you know, suddenly you're like, okay, well, how do they beat the oil? Right. Like when we talk about like Dallas and the Oilers, that's the answer. How does Dallas beat the Oilers?

They got a way better goal than the Oilers. And right now he looks like a way better goal. In his last three starts, he has three wins, a 937 save percentage and a 1.84 goals against. And I think a big part with Autinger, to Sean's point is, yeah, you give up too early. It looks like, oh, shoot, like Dallas is Dallas toast here? Like, can Vegas keep this lead? And he had huge saves at very important moments once Dallas got back up in that game. Especially the one Chandler-Stevenson ended up getting like a partial break.

He like cut through 2D ends up one-on-one with Ottinger. And Ottinger made like a huge save. So he's making the saves when it matters at this point. And maybe we couldn't say that as consistently before this stretch. like he's just been so much better. And again, hasn't been scored on in the third period or overtime yet in this series. And that is like pretty clutch to me.

I think there's always like, I remember talking to somebody about this. I think it was Steve Vallicott. And they track these kind of stats with their private data, looking at goalies and like a huge thing with goalies that they'll look at that's not like publicly available. It's like how do they play at different moments in the game or at like, different parts. So like what's their save percentage or their expected goals against in the third period? Or how do they play when they're down? How do they play with a lead? And we're seeing with

Jake Ottinger, at least in this first round, that he's playing very well in the most important moments when they are either up or they're trailing by one to keep their team closer to keep their team up and in the final stretch of a game, which is like a very important time to actually be on it. Yeah, after letting that dud in the first period, you know, second and third period combined, there were, he stopped three high danger chances, he stopped, there were 12 scoring chances, almost a full expected goal against this is at all, this is at all, uh, in all situations. So we can, we can look at that. And if you, if you watch the game, that's, that's the way it felt too, right? I love the work that Valicats company does.

It's so great to see that stuff broken down so granularly. But to the point where it even shows up, like it's been obvious with Ottinger. It's been clear enough for it to show up on the publicly available stuff that we all use, whether it's natural stat trick or whatever. The dude has been really, really good down the stretch. And if that's what they get moving forward, like they're going to be the problem that we all expect of them to be.

Yeah. It gives you the sense of if the stars get up, good luck. that's what you want from your goalie. I think the other story of the series right now is Wyatt Johnston, who at 20 years old is a star, right? He is, I think he's leading him in points. I think he's got 60%, 70% expected more share. A few more assists yesterday, I think.

Yeah, the guy can't buy a beer in the state that he lives in for two more weeks here. And he has been one of the most impactful players in this playoff series. He had a great season. Obviously, he's 30 goal scorer. Like, we know Wyatt Johnson's good, but like there is always that question. how is your young guy going to step up in the playoffs? You know, this is not a guy who's got his man body to him yet. And he's finding a way to score these big goals to make these plays.

He's a huge story of the series. Is man body a scouting term? Is that something you picked up from Scott and Corey? I picked it up from coaches, actually. But basically, yes. Can you picture Pranman saying man body? Yes, I can. In fact, I am doing it right now.

I think White Johnson being such. a factor. Like obviously we've had a lot of conversations about the stars top nine, but like he really is when Wyatt Johnson is playing like this. It truly does give them like three, three good centers, three really solid scoring lines. Again, like Johnson, Stancove and Jamie bends, their second line right now. Let's Rope Hints and Jason Robertson and Joe Pavelski go to work because we know that they've been able to do that over the last four years now that they've been a trio. And then you've got third line, Tyler Say again,

of getting Dathnov, who was productive yesterday. Matt Duchenne's a third line center. Like, this is why we really liked the Dallas Stars. This, that's a crazy top nine. And we're getting snake bit Pavellski right now, too. Like that dude, at some point the dam's going to break. Like, he's, he's, he's coming close, but he hasn't been able to, he hasn't been able to get it across.

Yeah, that back door play that he put wide the other night, right in the back. He never misses those in the playoffs. Like those are going to go in for them. They're going to start going to. They're going to start going in. I think Joe Pavelsky is the most, like when I covered the flames and I was still living in Calgary in that playoff series, like obviously Jake Ottinger was the star because that was the series everyone was talking about of being like that's the single best goalie performance I've seen in the postseason. But like Joe Pavelsky was just like the biggest like star to me. I was like this guy is like unreal.

He was scoring it. situations, like huge goals, timely goals, like several goals. Wasn't that? Everything. Everything. That was like the peak of, I feel like of everybody was like, yet, Povellsky's great at everything, but oh my God, like his tip and ability. Yeah.

That's when. Oh my God. Well, it was just, everyone was asking Daryl Sutter about him and like Rick Bonas was still the coach in Dallas. It was just like Joe Povelski was like the coolest man on earth in that series. So yeah, he won't stay. he won't stay at what zero goals. I just love that at various points throughout this season.

Like any time I've maybe regretted my Stars Stanley Cup pick, we've had a show. We've sat here and gassed them up extensively enough for me to be like, yeah, all right, let's go. We're back. We're back. Stars bandwagons filling back up, baby. Come on.

Yeah. This is, I feel much better. I'm glad we had this talk. All right. So the other game from last night we can kind of pivot to here, guys, was L.A. Edmonton, the Oilers win for three. That series is now over for one series victory by the Oilers. They knock out the Kings for the third straight season in the first round. This was just a very oilers win. Drysidal scores twice, power play very good. They scored nine power play goals and 15 chances in the series and their PK was 12 for 12. Like just big spin. special teams game for the Oilers. Zach Hyman scores again. Blah, blah, blah.

Connor McDavid has several points. It's just clockwork. I don't know. I don't know what to say. I know you guys were saying, I know Sean's not totally on board. He's not a hater, but he is.

I don't know. Here's what I'm encouraged by. They've got some good ingredients. Yeah. What I'm really... They're cooking. What I'm really encouraged by is that over the final three games of the series,

the Oilers gave up a total of five goals, and one of those is like a late tack on in that last game, a desperation. Like, yeah, like I'm very encouraged by that about the other. We know they're going to score. They are.

But the fact that they seem to be, and I'm not going to say that the kings are the steepest offensive test they're going to face in these playoffs, obviously. They certainly are not. What? I'm encouraged to see that, right?

Like, I think, you know, there's a, there's a kind of a formula here that, you know, they're not going to win. like that every game, but if they can take one or two of those, two ones, three, twos,

even the four three, I think they'll take. If they get one or two of those a series, that's their path. Yeah. I think it was good to see the Oilers win in a variety of ways throughout that series, kind of as you mentioned, Max, there were some blowout games where their offense just goes off. And then there were some tighter games showing that they can just grind it out. And I don't know if we necessarily would have always seen that from Edmonton over the years. So, Three straight first rounds where they knock up the Kings, three straight years where the Oilers just keep looking better and better, right? There's been improvement.

I guess on both sides, but the Oilers have been obviously much better. I really wanted to do a classic media bit here where I would say, you know, have the Kings taught the Oilers how to win over the last three years? Is this growth group? But they've beaten them every single time, so I can't even try it. Who even does that?

It's just got to be so demoralizing for the Kings too, or it's like you keep running into this. I say what you will about Edmonton, you know, when the playoffs progress a little bit more. But to run into them in the first round, three straight years, and also to improve on your end of things. Like this version of the Kings is better than the one we saw last year. And that one was better than the one we saw the year before that.

So they're getting better year over. year. And losing in fewer games. And turning in less competitive series against this team because the Oilers are improving exponentially, right? That's a much better five on five team. The scoring depth, we talked about this before we recorded maximum, so I'm going to seal it from you. But it is true. Like, you look at the guys in that roster, they can get, they can get goals from

a whole wide swath of people relative to where they were a couple years ago. You know, when you have Zach Hyman leveling up when you have, you know, Evander Cain has two goals in this series. And we know that a guy like Dylan Holloway seems like he's got that gene where he could, where he could keep this up. And the Cory Perrys of the world and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You have those guys in the mix that can create it five on five and lessen some of the load that you place A on McDavid and Drysidal or B on the power play like overall as a unit. that's the sort of stuff that wasn't there a couple years ago. And that's the reason when I'm close to buying all the way into the oilers. Like, am I a little bit of a hater? Like, yeah, probably. Is that a byproduct of me having to do the power rings every week with Dom

who's just been gassing up the oilers, like truly, even at the, in the trench of, of November. But before they made the coaching change, like, yeah. But, man, there's so much good that's happening in there. and there's so much more of a reason to look at the way they do things in the mix that they have and say like this is that this is it like this this feels different in a in a very real way compared to how things have gone in the past absolutely i mean can we talk about evan bushard please also yes he has nine points he is tied with kale mccar for the lead and postseason points among defenders since last season stanley cup playoffs no doubt

defenders recorded more points in the postseason than Evan Bouchard. That's 23. Mero Heiskenen is second with 16. Like he's been unbelievable. And I know the knock on Bouchard has been, he plays a lot of his minutes with Connor McDavid. And like there are defenders who, you know, if your job is to get it out of the D zone, snap it up to McDavid or get a point shot for dry sidle to tip it in, like your job is easier.

But like he's doing it. You know, if it was that simple to just throw anybody there, everyone would be doing that. I just think Evan Bouchard deserves some love and attention. And I know that Oilers fans are very pissed that he was not a finalist for the Norris. I don't think he was maybe top three this season. But I do think Evan, but was he top three? No.

Right. I had the same top three, but he was on my ballot. He's been great. He's a legit number one. And not like, not in the sense that he is. the guy who puts up the most points and logs the most minutes on it. Like, that guy is high-end number one player. He's, he had eight assists.

He had eight points in that series, which is one off the record for a defenseman in a series that went six games or less. Nine points. Nine. Yeah, it was, it was a cyst. He had eight assists, which is one off the record for, for a defenseman in a, in a short series, which is, which is wild. And he's doing all of this.

it by turning in elite five on five play in his own end too not just not a good defensive player not just offensive fueled like ratio stuff like he has been a good defensive player period in the fact that he's emerged as that dude after years of them trying to find it in years of trying to pigeonhole darnel nurses is is that guy when like all signs point to him to not being the case the fact that they have the stud number one dude that is that that's it for me And that's why when I look at, you know, my stars prediction or whatever, the oilers, the oilers are making me nervous. I can deny it all I want, but it's true. And it's because of, and there's a lot of different reasons that it's true.

I got a question for you guys. So, obviously in Detroit, there's a Ken Holland angle here. And I want the perspective of two people not in that bubble here. Is this a redemption? If the Oilers make the run, is that a redemption cup for Ken Holland? He goes in there and he inherits two of the 10, if not two of the five best players in the game. But we talk about how this roster has improved exponentially. Is this a redemption?

Yeah. It's a redemption for Ken Holland because of the way he, because of the actions of Ken Holland at the start of his tenure in Edmonton. Like, if this is the way it's going, if we're on track for him to dig himself out of the hole that he made for himself, like great. But like the reason that, you know, the Oilers, why the progress has been nonlinear and halting and frustrating is in large part because of the decisions that he made at the start of his tenure there. So like, is that a fun narrative? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's cool to watch a guy who at the end of his career when everybody seemed like, when it seemed like he lost his fastball and when he frankly made a bunch of bad decisions and bad moves. Like I love the idea of him of him putting together a legit cup content.

under roster, but like, this wasn't a situation that was foisted upon him either. Like, like, he did a pretty crummy job there for like for a while. It's, it's compelling, but it doesn't exonerate him from, you know, a couple, a couple years worth of bad work in Edmonton either. Yeah, it's almost like if the Oilers win, it would more be, like, I don't want to go so far to say like it's in spite of some of those moves, but like there are some pretty bad contracts up and down

this roster that they are, that he has, made good moves to make better. But like Ken Holland is the reason that Ken Holland had to go and sign Corey Perry for $700,000. And at the same time, though, the Jack Campbell situation. So yeah, he did well to fix his mistakes.

But I think if the Oilers win, it'll be like because of Connor McDavid and Leon Tri-Sidell not. And this, I mean, the Zach Hyman contract is like great. You know, good job. That's,

that love that for you. But I, that's maybe the like media boy thing max that's the Detroit media guy it might be that because for me if they win it's like yeah i don't give it just want to stay yeah like i'm not talking about ken holland if they win because to me it's not like what a masterclass of gming not i'm not calling it a master class i'm not you are oh you are i'm just saying like i don't dispute you know the jack campbell contract particularly became a huge obstacle for them and could torpedo they still couldn't become it still is yes it's the first it's to the end of the first round

but when i look at it like i don't know you talk about like mac david and dressa like those guys didn't win anything before either right like i think when we talk about the supporting cast around them it it is a big part of why i believe in the oilers more than i have in past years i like i used to fade the oilers in my playoff predictions totally me too and i'm not there anymore and i a big part of it is because of what we talked about with the depth and i i get that you know there are circumstances that allowed them to sign some of these guys as cheap as they did that are you know if they are relevant content but i do think like there's a reason people aren't like applauding the like people aren't really applauding like wow what a what a smart wow you got

it's like yeah i'm not on in a master class it's it's it's it's it's 2024 like congrats on getting your shit together that's that's basically what it is like i like i if that's if Maybe unfair. That might be harsh. But like, and if all this ends with Ken Holland taking a lap with a steely cuff or whatever or like, who cares? Right.

Can't stop me from calling it a feel good story, Sean, in Philly. Yeah. This is, dude, this is, this is a man. This is,

these are the words of a man who came up under Craig Custins. Ken Holland, Ken Holland excuse making Ken Holland veneration. Like, this is, you are, you are your father's son, my boy.

Oh my God. I also think it's worth noting that like Peter Shirelli did not have a masterclass, but he is also the one who drafted like Evan Bouchard and stuff. So that wasn't really a Kent. Whatever.

That's rude as hell. I was just saying we're talking about Evan Bouchard being unbelievable. That was not a Ken Holland selection. The Red Wings were going to draft Evan Bouchard there. I can't. The Zedina fall happened.

Like that's one of the funniest things to me is he got the guy that everyone thought he was going to draft anyway. Peter Shirelli Master Club. We can have, look, we can have our Ken Holland discussion. That's fine. I draw the line

at Peter Shirelli revisionism. I wasn't trying to talk about him. I will not accept this. I wasn't trying to talk about him. I was just saying like a lot the players we were talking about that have been unbelievable. We're not drafted by Ken Holland.

It's true. I don't like this conversation. John neither. And I feel attacked. And I don't appreciate this. John, mid-2010's blog community will exile him if he is associated with Peter Shirelli apologism. Call it a timeout.

We need to go. Yeah. I think it's time to take a break. And unfortunately for me, we have to talk about the Winnipeg Jets. I might have come in a little too hot. I'll never admit that I did anything wrong, though. We'll be right back on the athletic hockey show. My anxiety brain is making me feel like we were too harsh on Ken Hall.

And Sean should be continued this conversation. We? Hold on. whatever he built a good he built a good team this year good job ken holland we're not doing we're not doing this again like six months ago we were worried about that he was wasting dry sidle and we and mac david's i me max like i would like to be left out of this even though i brought it up you can just say that cuss and got to you guys too and we can correct called me between I mean, Craig called me in the break.

I don't know how he's listening to this, but he was like, you've got to, you need to write this wrong. He's got those, he's got those admin profiles on our laptops, baby. Craig plus, it's monitoring keystrokes. It's happening. It's crazy. Yeah. He's like, hey, I hear you didn't write enough about the Oilers this week.

I've been watching you. Let's go from one, I don't know, Haley, devastating loss to the next. the Jets. The Winnipeg Jets. I feel like I was talking about you specifically with Sean yesterday. When I was like, I feel like everybody got in over their skis maybe a little bit. People who will not be named maybe got a little bit overhyped on a jet.

and I didn't think that they were going to win the series. So let's be clear. You said they were the deepest team in the NHL. No, no. Off on that Jets pack, baby. No, I didn't. I just thought that you guys were being Jets haters. And I was like, no, they're great.

Sometimes the haters are correct, my friends. The haters said I couldn't do it and they were right. I didn't. This is so bad. their bottom six was really good. That is depth. That is loser behavior from you. Hang the banner.

Bottom six was, Adam Lowry was really good. Adam Lowry outscored Casey Middlestadt. Yeah, did they win the bottom six expected goal battle in their five round, in their five game first round loss? Yep, hang that one. I don't even think they outscored Casey Middle Stadding. Probably not.

Middle Stead was good. That was good. here's my question about the debt. I didn't think, I just have to say very quickly. Like, I didn't think, I think the abs were always going to be the favorite and win that series. I did think it was going to be a lot closer. I thought the Jets, I thought the Jets were worse than the sum of their parts in that series for a variety of reasons. Obviously, the offense wasn't there.

Connor Hellibuck, like, was not good after game one. I saw actually a really interesting breakdown on Hellebuck from Mike Kelly, from sport logic. And just looking at it like we can look at the goals against which were bad, but also the ways in which they were scored. Most of those goals were scored either by a tip or a screen. So like I think the abs did a very good job in that series taking away his eyes because they had to know you're not going to beat Connor Hellebuck. point blank in the slot. So they did a really good job making hell a buck's life hell and they capitalized on that hell a buck. And they did a really good job capitalizing on that. Like it was just a really well played series by the abs. And I will not take this L. But here's so like when we

talk about like, you know, how much are the Jets a hellabuck product right? Like to me that speaks to the answer being yes. It's like if he's not superhuman, you know, and he wasn't, even though what in front of him happened, he was not superhuman. This is what, what would happen. He was below average. Right. Exactly.

Bad hell of luck. Right. And, but I don't think it's like all on him either. Like, I think it just speaks to how much they were relying on him to be incredible to be what they were. When Haley talked about the like less than some of their parts, what it really made me think of was one of the things we talked about when we did the jet sector. that we're referencing like a month or so ago about like the top of the line.

Don't go back and listen to it. Please do. And I think that's where you saw the chasm here, right? And like, you know, well, hot take of the week that Nathan McKinnon's way better than Mark Shifley or whatever. But yeah, I don't know that the top of this Jets lineup like is, is scaring anybody that was a playoff team this year. Is that fair?

It's completely fair. They don't, they don't have the juice at the top. And I think, you know, and it's not just Shifley. Like, like, we can sit here and dump on Mark Shifley for 15 minutes, and he'll deserve it because he wasn't good. But look at guys, like, Nikolai Ailers. Here's a great, great example. Like, very good regular season player, probably a misused regular season player in some respects by Rick Bonas. What did they get from him exactly?

in the in the in the in the postseason for two years in a row like is this like is is is nikolai ayler's tamash tatar like truly like he is is he a guy who checks a bunch of boxes seems like he should be a valuable guy on a second line and then all of a sudden april rolls around or may rolls around and he becomes unplayable like i think maybe i think maybe we're there like they're problems it's fun it's fun and it's not incorrect to nail schifely and hell a buck and blah blah for the way things have gone and focus on the high end it's true they're lacking there in terms of the skaters but let's not dump all the all the issues there like look up and down the lineup look outside of the guys who are wearing letters on their jerseys like i don't think there

were too many guys that showed up for them. And I think if you're just going to look at the stat sheet too, like Mark Sheifley did was a more than point per game player. So like, but I will say when you're watching, you do have moments of like, can Mark Sheifley just take over this game? Like can somebody just have like a game breaking moment for the Winnipeg Jets after the first game of the series? And I think Max had the stat.

Sheifley was outscored eight to five. Yeah, I think that's right. At five on five? Not just can Shifley take the series over? Can Shifley win a board battle against Devon Taves? Like, you think that's happening in the third period of a game? Because I don't, and I didn't see that much of it. And again, I don't mean to turn this into a Shifley referendum because we've,

that's been litigated back and forth. You've done that enough, yeah. Right? But that team has problems. And they start at the top, but they don't end at the top. Right. I think the point to make about myself is that when I was more bullish on the Jets, it was not in relation to playing against the abs.

It was just like they're a deep team. And at that point, they were first in the league. And I think that's what makes this first round loss, like, even worse. Because I, like, I do, I thought the Jets were a good team this season and they stunk it up in the first round. Like, it just wasn't good enough across the board. and it leaves them with some really interesting questions of, did they just have a bad stretch against the abs? And Marotte did a really good job looking at this.

Like, what pieces of the Jets can you take away from this season and say, let's continue to build on this? And which pieces do you look at and say, like, we need a complete fix here? Because we know that they're locked in with Shifley and with Connor Hullabuck. But, like, they're a really interesting team to look ahead on it. It's like, where do you go from here if you're the Winnipeg Jets? because it was a great regular season, horrible finish. So what do you do?

I think to Sean's point about Eilers, like you're already looking for, you're going to need Col Perfetti to be a big part of your lineup, probably in the top six. And if you're looking for places to make room for Colt Perfetti to play in your top six, you know, maybe not the most ideal time coming off a series like this. And just now, to Sean's point, a track record of this with Nick Eilers. But if you're going to look to like,

who can you take out to make that room for Perfetti and get something back, I think that's the natural starting point. Like that's a natural swap that you can make. Yeah. And see if he works better there. Now are you going to get what you would want to get for a 60 plus point, pretty regular 25 goal scoring winger with some quickness? Probably not.

But I don't, you know, you're trading him for the same reason. Like if you're trading him like because it just wasn't happening. It hasn't happened for him in the playoffs. And it's been enough that I don't think you can say it's coming. I think they got a coach too, which is going to be the. other question heading into the off season is not just what they can do with the lineup to not get outmatched and outplayed in the playoffs next season, but how can they make sure that they're not out-coached?

So there's lots of question marks. And there's a lot of guys who need, so Adam Lowry, Kyle Connor each have two years left on their deals. Morrissey signed for four more seasons. Obviously, we know Shifley and Connor Hallibuck, they have the seven-year contract extensions that begin next season. Unrestricted free agents, Brendan Dillon, Dylan, Dylan de Mello, Laurent Braswa,

at Sean Monaghan, Tyler, Tifoli, Colin Miller, or all UFAs. And then Cole Profetti needs a new contract too. So there's some work to be done. You would think that there should be some changes. And I'll say this to serious, but this is fresh on our minds

because of this series, but also just true generally. I'll take Adam, Adam Lowry and Josh Morrissey, I'll take those dudes on my team 100 times out of 100. Those guys, like all these issues that we're talking about or dumping on this player and that player. So the reason we didn't bring them up in that conversation. Those guys are, if there's a solution to be found in Winnipeg, those dudes are part of it.

Lauery was excellent. It brought it. They brought it. Really good. Do you guys have any other thoughts on this series or am I done having to play? I just want to know like how much it restored your faith in the avalanche. Like not that you have. I didn't not have.

Yeah, wrong way to put it. But like, for a team that had a fairly early exit, were they first round exit last year? Yeah, against a Krakken. Right. And so like they come out and then, you know, there were enough questions about, you know, the makeup of the team. Can they do it? Like, how much did this, you know, boost your confidence, I guess, in the ad way? So I didn't lack confidence in the abs.

I should say that first and foremost. But I do think that there were areas that were like. decent enough questions. And I think Giorgev after game one made me feel way better about the goalie situation.

And then I think like Nchuschen, Casey Middle Statt, like depth guys, Arturi Lekinen, like the way that they won this series made me, it didn't renew my confidence,

but it made me even more bullish on the abs, I think, because I would take a McKinnon and a McCarr and a Devon Taves over a lot of teams, right?

But the way that they're secondary scoring players played, and then the way Gorgiev rebounded from game one made me feel like even better about Colorado. It's one thing to do it against the Jets who stunk it up. So we'll have to see how that translates to round two. But I feel even better about the abs than I did after this series. Totally agree with all that. I think me and Sean kind of talked about some of that yesterday too.

I wasn't down on the abs, but I mean, no, it's a good point that's worth reiterating, I think, is that, you know, they showed plenty during the series that should make people, if people were bearing them a little bit less or, or understandably had issues with like their second. Here's the other thing, too. This is like maybe a little bit of a tangent, but like, I don't know, like, is it fair to call Nchuskin secondary? scoring. You heard me kind of like stutter on us. I struggle. I struggle. I struggle without a term guys like him in Lekinin to to an extent. Like, so

I think where I landed was like the second layer of production, like the second layer of player. If you think that McKinney... Everyone not name McKinnon and Rantan. Basically. Basically. Like those guys, those guys are off in the distance like in a class

by themselves. But if you're getting production from those other guys. And they're two leading goal scores where Natuskin and Lekinan. If that continues, that's a really, really good sign because that'll buy you time. That'll give those, it'll give the big guys some room to operate. Like, it's not a coincidence that Miko Ranton scored twice in the clincher after not having any goals like leading into that. The fact that they won a series in five games where Miko Randon didn't score until game five is a testament to how well they played across the board, and I think it's something that should make,

honestly, the rest of the league pretty nervous. Yeah, I mean, their next round opponent will be one of Vegas or Dallas coming out of the tightest, most hard-fought series in round one, and they're going to get a rested, confident Avs team. Why? It's what we want. I want that to be a Western Conference final. Guess what? One of those teams gets the Oilers

in the Western Conference final. That's the beauty of it. There's a lot of good teams. As a confirmed, oilers hater, bring it on it. It doesn't do anything. Bring it on, I say. It's fine. Yeah, that's actually a bummer. I'm going to be devastated in two short weeks.

I can't wait for everybody to listen to that. Like, is Haley whineer than usual today? Yeah. Haley, will you say someone else is like the, the undisputed deepest team in the league so that we can just do this again in two weeks? I didn't say that. Getting upset. Guaranteeing a five-game loss in this next series. Great.

Oh, you guys are pissing me off. Let's tee up Boston, Toronto, game six tonight. Oh, yeah, say it about Boston. Yeah, do it about Boston. You want the leaves to win? No, no, no. Say it about Boston going into the Florida series. Oh, so you think Boston's going on.

I'm already calling the series. Yeah, yeah. No chance on a game seven, guys? there was a chance. I just go, I go back to the way Jim Montgomery looked after his, after that game,

he was concerned. I'll tell you this. I had to like, I could watch the gears, I could see the gears turning in McIndoo's head yesterday where he was almost talking himself into it. He was all,

it was, that was a man that was getting pulled in about three separate directions. because he was, the more he talked, you could see, he was like, yeah, maybe, but he was also trying to stop himself from convincing himself. In every, in every lease fan, there are two wolves. It was, it was not just in the Leafs, like, Sean, you and I picked the Leafs and six, I think, on this show a couple weeks ago. Because the Bruins aren't that good. I mean, that's not.

Three games. It was 2.1, and I was already like, this series is over, right? Like, the Bruins have this. And I guess I'm stuck there now. but it's not just on Leaf fans. Like the Leafs do this to all of our brains. It's maddening. Right.

There is nothing about- They believe they should win this series. Outside of Pashtonak, there is nothing about that roster that suggests that they should be able to hang with elite teams. Sean is such a brunitator. They can. I am a Jim Montgomery lover. Outside of Pashtonac, you don't think they're goaltending, Brad Marchand. Your blue line?

I don't think if you were, if you were comparing them to the three or four best teams in the league, I don't think, I think, I think on talent alone, I think they're a cut below, honestly. Goaltending, great, Posterna not great. Better than the Jets?

Can you imagine that? Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb. I know this is crazy, but I think the Boston Bruins are better than the Winnipeg Jets. And I think that's the sort of thing. thing that like i think jim montgomery's i think he's a great coach and i and i think they're i think they have a chance in every series they play in because of a couple things and i think that and i think

that his abilities as a head coach is one of them but i i i don't i'm not like i i i'm saying this as a as a way to gas him up i think that just what makes what what makes what he's done so impressive and i thought that the road was going to end here because i sincerely i picked the leaps to win i thought it was going to happen but they think they keep proving me wrong at every turn. Like, whatever. Good for them. You are just refusing to acknowledge Trent Frederick right now, and that's crazy.

Trent Frederick, who is like the best player in that series, apparently. Whoops. Rusk has been really good. Brad Marshan's been the best player in that series. Charlie McAvoy's playing well. I don't know. I think you are, this is your way of like poo-pooing on the Leafs more, though, because it's like,

there's no reason why the leave shouldn't be matching up against this current Bruins roster better. In those first up until that last game, absolutely. I think part of that is true, but I also think you need to give the Bruins a little bit more credit than you are. I am. I'm saying, I'm saying that on paper, they should not be as good as they are. I think the Bruins are the best team in the east. There we go. There we go. We got the clip. Goodbye Boston. This is what Max wanted. You're welcome.

Panthers fans. Played right into my hands. Yeah. Sean, this is interesting, though, about Montgomery because I agree. He's gotten a lot out of this roster at a team that we,

each of the last two years, a lot of us expected was going to drive off a cliff. And he's gotten a lot out of them. Charlie Coil and Pavel Zacker are their top two centers. I'm sorry. That's not next talk. We haven't heard from him in 10 minutes. Sean's right.

But like, but this is an interesting thing here because where they're at in this series, if this goes, if this does go awry, and I don't think it will. But if it does, we're going to be talking about Jim Montgomery

having won one playoff series as a head coach and it was in 2019. Uh-huh. Like, it's an interesting little fork in the road here. And I think that they will get it done.

I don't think we're going to have to have that conversation. But it's interesting. We're going to be talking about Jim, would the Bruins dump Jim Montgomery for Rod Brindamore? That'll be the next question if Boston loses this series. Hey, wait for segment three, Bucco.

What the hell? Also a little bit of a little bit of news as it relates to this series. I'm cutting Sean off right now. Austin Matthews skated at Scotia Bank Arena earlier this morning. He's not on the ice right now with teammates for the formal morning skate. So not an encouraging sign about his availability for game six. And my favorite goaltender in the NHL, Jeremy Swayman is in net at the Bruins morning skate. We're right.

Swamen hive rise up. let's go yeah it's not looking great for the leaves Allison's told me a little bit about the Swamen Hive Sway Hive Allison Yeah she said TikTok love hockey Yeah Oh she's seen the Swayman

fanc I actually didn't know the Swayman Hive was a thing But I'm certain there are some fan cams Yeah Yep It's actually my account Yeah there we go The truth comes out yeah I think I've probably seen some of those

Yes, yes. Those came up a way for you, Paige. Should we take a break? Yes. Did anything else happen? No. I don't know. I'm the host.

Yeah, let's take a quick break. We'll come back for the final segment of the Athletic Coffee Show. All right. So I forgot to bring this up in our leaf segment that just mostly turned into us talking about the Bruins. It can be done, folks. Leafs segment where you don't just talk about the Leafs. there was a comment in one of the shows.

So it wasn't on hours. I just creep the comments of like all the other days. Jesus. Because I'm an egomaniac. Why would you do? Something like that. Yeah. And I noticed this comment.

And I think this was after Ian and Laz on Monday broke down all the playoffs and Leifes on the brink, da-da. And one of the comments said, it's from Alex M. Haley bullying Leafs fans on the next pod is going to hit. And I just want to know, do I bully Leifes and their fans often? I think this is a callback to the Haley as a bully. Correct. From early in the show. But you guys are the mean ones.

But that's the bit. No one's called Max mean. I mean, guilty as charged on this end. But Max hasn't been called mean ones in his life. I think people are just keying on. you being a bully overall, not necessarily being a bully to the Leaf specifically. I've definitely had a few Leaf specific rants on this podcast network over the years, though. Got the passion. That's why.

No. I don't know. I don't think. I'm the resident Leaves Hater. I feel like I've, what have I done to lose that ground? I think I'm just a, I'm just a, yeah, I'm just a realist. and I tell it like it is about the Toronto Maple Leafs and that's what fans want. Real honest truth from Haley Salvean. That's one of the problems with society today.

Is it... Nobody just does go out of food. Willing into shoot straight. Yeah. And this is where you get really great clips about the Jets and the Boston Bruins who, neither of which are going to end up in the cup final.

It's fine. So for the final segment, we're going to look a little bit at the coaching carousel, but not necessarily looking at like, where will Craig Baroube land? Like could DJ Smith be the head coach in L.A.? Because I've seen people talking about that. It's more that there are some spicy potential names that could be on the carousel. And we're looking at Rod Brindamore and we're looking at Mike Sullivan. These are not two guys that we would typically expect to be in this conversation,

especially with Rod Brindamore and the Cain's still in the postseason, just sitting at home waiting for the second round to start. But this all kind of broke on Wednesday afternoon. So after the Wednesday show was Sean and Sean, two Sean's one, Frank? No, sorry. We were Frankliss, as I said. I repeat, we were Frankliss. Sorry, sorry.

So there was some in the Charlotte Observer reported that Brenda Moore has become unsure about his future in Carolina. We also had an interview at The Athletic with Don Waddell talking about how Brenda Moore is going to remain with the team past this season. He wants to be a cane for life. So this one's a little bit muddy because Don and Rod, at least in their public facing and on the record comments are saying like it's a non-issue. He wants to be here. but there's enough chatter about his future that makes it like, okay, what's going on here? I think we know what's going on to some extent.

Right. Like, this is not tea leave reading. Like, we have Dreger, Darren Drager reporting yesterday. Rod Brindamor's futures, Carolina's coach is up in the air. A deal seemed close, but it's believed the offer to extend the highly respected coach has been pulled. Sources say that Brindamore wants to stay, but may have to test the market, if an agreement can be reached.

Then Luke DeCock with the Raleigh News Observer said yesterday, he wrote kind of at length about this, included a text from Rod saying it's in Tom's hands. Like, this is a money thing. We're not connecting any dots there. And Tom Dundon needs to pay up for Rod Brindamore to continue. But Tom Dundon is also saying it's all but done. Like we're just awaiting.

the final touches on a contract extension. So, like, this is very muddy. I think that's what Dundan is saying, but, but, you know, Rod Brindamore is saying something else. Like 16 hours ago, Luke DeCock publishes a column saying, like, this isn't Tom's hands. It's money. Yeah.

Jack, when I read the, like, he wants to be a cane for life thing and, like, you see the shape of this, what that makes me think, and now we are going to shift into speculation here. what it makes me think is like is this a situation where they're trying to kind of take advantage of how bad he wants to be there and at a certain point he's got to draw a line and say well i want to be a game for life but i don't want to do it like at a you know and this is this is me speculating but like that's how i read it and how many teams would just like this is fun fire their coach for the like just for the opportunity to and I are Robbredamore. I tried to... He would have... He would just be able to pick where he wants to go.

Rod Brindamore to the Leafs? Let's just do... Let's do what I did yesterday and start... Start with the leading points getters. And just kind of go down. I'm trying to find it now and I'm struggling to... There we go. Okay.

Rangers no. Stars no. Cains don't count. Jets, yes. Panthers no. Canucks no. Bruins probably not if they get this done. Avs no. Oilers maybe.

Do the Oilers dump Chris Novlock for Rod Brindamore after the season if they don't want a cup? It's Robbrenemore. Yeah. It's like no knock on him. I think he's top three coach in the NHH. I think so. Things have to be going so well for you to not consider it.

Edmonton, no. Toronto. Edmonton, yes. Toronto yes Nashville no Kings yes so we're at we're at we're at the 12th now right

Why is Nashville no Why is Nashville no? I think things going that well I think I think I think they're really like Brunette I'm not I'm not sure if Trots If Trots fires Brunette after After one year but there but there are maybe I don't think that's like a slam dunk

I don't think they're a slam dunk no Yeah Kings yes lightning no Vegas no islanders Islanders is fun and then you get into the bottom half of the least league and it's like all of these teams. All of the, all of these, all of these, all of these, all of these teams would would drop their

guy in a second except I, blues capitals, red wings, penguins. Yes. Wild. Yes. Penguins, yes. I think if there, I think if there were an opportunity for the penguins to hire rod Brindamore with the way things have gone and the way it seems like we're moving to the next phase that organization's lifespan.

And we had a report from, you know, obviously the Mike Sullivan of New Jersey rumors are lying. That's not, that's not speculation. That's like those are out there. Rob Rossi's, you know, been reporting on it saying that permission has not been seeked or granted by New Jersey to talk to Mike Sullivan, which is very carefully and specifically worded, I think, for our reason. Yeah. I think Pittsburgh probably does it too. I think Pittsburgh probably would make that, would make that switch.

If they knew, if they knew that they had Rod Brindamore locked and loaded, I think I think you find a way to divorce from Mike Sullivan at this point. That's the most interesting conversation of the bunch here because Sullivan is also like a top, certainly top 10, I would say top five coach in the NHL, but has been there so long that you can make the case for a message change,

especially missing the playoffs last couple years. Like, I think I'm with you, but I think that's the most interesting conversation. but the fact that we're talking about both of these two guys is what fascinates me. These are two guys that I think, I think you can do the same exact game with Mike Sullivan, where you go down the lineup and say, because coach from Mike Sullivan. I agree.

And I know that there was also some like conversations too that got pretty quickly shut down, but a lot of people, and maybe this was just in Toronto, because people love to talk about Tampa Bay here still. But there was a lot of like, could John Cooper be on the market? it question mark. And then very swiftly, he was like, no,

he has term on his deal. They answered that pretty quickly in the end of season kind of press conference. I think as it relates to Brindamore, I know Darren Dregor said

Brindamore wants to stay but may have to test the market if an agreement can't be reached. It's just really hard for me to imagine him anywhere else. Like this, again, like, I don't want this to be like famous last words or whatever old takes exposed, but I feel like this is just like a lot of a big nothing burger and we're going to be getting

news of a Brindamore extension at the end of the season. Like I would be shocked if that's not the end result here. I guess so. Don't you think? I agree with you, Haley. But like what I'll say is like all that we've heard about kind of these teams that want that like kicking the ass coach. And so you hear some of the.

names around that, whatever, Barouba. I think you look at like what Philadelphia did under John Tortorella threatening the playoffs and you can see where that comes from. Brindamore is like the perfect best of both worlds for the modern version of that coach where you will get the kick in the ass effect and you're not going to have the like expiration date risk with Rod Brinand. That is what makes him such a good coach is he gets that motivation effect. He gets everything out of his guys and everyone loves it.

Like it's the perfect one. Yeah. I was working on a big Brindamore story last year, but then they ended up losing pretty badly to the Panthers. Like I was kind of working on this and then the series went sideways. It was like, okay, I need to pocket this. But I was talking to a bunch of people who's either like played with him for him. And that was a really big thing.

It's like the thing about Rod is like he is the hard coach that's going to demand a lot of you, but he's not an asshole. Like he's not the kind of coach who you're going to be like, like there's a difference between a coach who is a really good coach, but he's like a bad person. But and then like there's the hard coach who's like also just a good dude. And Rod is that kind of like. And I'm not,

this is not me saying that like I don't know John Torterell. I don't know any of these other like hard ass coaches. I'm not naming any buddy specifically here on purpose. People say nice things about Tortorale, like, too. Yeah, like he seems like actually a good, like a good person. Yeah. Even if he can be kind of like mean in press conferences. So I just want because you had mentioned.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to make sure I'm not saying torterell is an asshole. But I think that's the thing that you hear a lot about Rod is like he's, he can be a hard ass, but he's like a good guy. And that's kind of the big difference. Like you said, Max, it's there's a good blend there. It's the expiration date factor, I think, is the risk. Not so much like being a bad person.

just how long can you do that to somebody? But that doesn't seem to be happening at all with Brindamore and his players. I have 16 yeses and four maybes, by the way. I just went through and did it again. And I mean, realistically, it's probably more than that too. Like, there's probably some nose we had that. I was, like I would fire this man for. Yeah, I was, I was cautious about, about those classifications too.

But I think if you're the canes, you need to like just do whatever and keep him there. because it would be weird as hell for Rod Brindamore to not be the head coach of the Carolina Hurricanes. If something weird happens, say in this next series against the Rangers, like, he's been there for a while. You know, you ask maybe has he gone as far as he can with that team? I don't, I personally don't think that he has, but I also think it would be an understandable question to ask, right? And then if he does go somewhere else, here's the other interesting part of this, is what does Rod Brindamore look like coaching a team of players?

that has not been built to play specifically for Rod Brindamore because that's what he's got right now. So if you drop him into some other situation with a bunch of guys who maybe, you know, whose games don't line up or or mentalities don't line up to play the way that he demands them to play, I'd be interested to see. And I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. It would just be a fascinating development for whatever comes next. It would, but to me that only underscores how much, like, there are a lot of teams who, like, the face of the team, face of the organization is their star player. And, like, Jacob Slave and Sebastian Aho, all awesome players, Seth Jarvis, under special. Like, Rod Brindamore is the Carolina Hurricane. Like, he, that is who you think of first with the Canes.

It's their identity. He is, like, he's the star of the Carolina Hurricanes as a coach to a level that, like, we only see in, like, college football, right? Like, that is how central Brindamore is to the Keynes. And that's a great comparison. What you just said is like like the roster designed in his identity. That's all the more reason that I agree with. To keep him. You can't let him get away.

That's a good point. Not a lot of coaches are using like marketing materials and like sign like signs and banners hung around the, hung around the arena. Rod Brandemores. So that would be a huge sea change for that organization. If it comes to that. But yeah, I mean, look, I don't mean to make it seem like this is some kind of fade out come fit a complet that it's that it's that.

that it's happening, right? We know it seems like it's moving in the right direction, but it's just the timing on it's interesting. The timing on it's interesting in the, in the way that the fact that we're clearly getting either direct quotes from Brindamore about it or stuff that is clearly coming from people in his camp that's being leaked to media folks,

source stuff like that. I think it's really interesting. By the time it gets public sniping via the media, you have a problem. Whether you can resolve it or not, but you have a problem if it's getting to the public sniping via the media. There's a reason that we're having this discussion right now, and there's a reason that people know.

And there's a reason that it made it to that level of public awareness for sure. We are playing into the Brindamore camp of like, you can't let him go. Like, this is what the public pressure looks like once that gets to the public. Because we're right. We're right. And he's right. It turns into a bunch of people being like, Tom Dundon, don't screw this up. It goes well, but then it goes in.

it then it goes into and this is a whole other can of worms that we don't need to that we don't need to open up here and don't have time to but like the dundon business model of playing hardball with every single negotiation and and really being judicious about the people who you deviate from your salary structure for like that's being put to the test right now for and that's going to be a big part of the narrative whenever this gets resolved in one way or another that needs to be part of the discussion we can have it two weeks from now or or a month or or or a month from now, but that needs, that needs to be, you know, that can needs to be opened. Sure. Some news,

this is breaking as we're recording, Austin Matthews officially ruled out for game six tonight. Oh, brother. On that note, thanks for listening to the athletic hockey show. Please. But seriously, that's the end of the show,

guys. We'll be back next week. It'll be into the second round of the playoffs. Will the leaves be there? We don't know. We'll see. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a five-star rating and review.

Max, Corey, Scott, and Chris Peters. Oh, my. Have the prospect series on Friday here. The U-18 medal rounds start this weekend. So they'll be teeing that out. You know what that means, baby. Fireup buttstream.fart. That's where you are watching your...

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