The Athletic Hockey Show - Swayman gets $66 million worth of pressure with Bruins extension

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Max and Laz are back on this Monday episode of The Athletic Hockey Show to discuss Jeremy Swayman’s contract extension with the Bruins, why locker room access is crucial to sports journalism, the inconspicuous start to the NHL regular season at the Global Series, and more. Plus, The Athletic’s NHL insider Chris Johnston weighs in on the Swayman deal, Shesterkin’s next contract, and Amazon’s “Faceoff: Inside the NHL” docuseries.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Chris JohnstonExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. Chris Johnson is going to be here in a moment. But, Laz, you had a pretty good sports weekend. I know it came to a tough end. I had a very bad sports weekend. Jeremy Swamen had an excellent sports weekend. Yeah, he's making some money, huh?

He is eight years, $8.25 million for Jeremy Swamen. what do you think about that max two things the first i think our our bruns writer fluto shinsuwa wrote this exceptionally well uh if everyone can go read that on the athletic excellent column here and the bottom line is swamon one right like there is no way to read the takeaways here other than jeremy swamman got what he was looking for he got more than the 64 million dollars that cam neely alluded to that i think most of us thought was a pretty fair number if that had been real he He gets it up to $66 million over eight years. My second thought after seeing that he won is now he's got to live up to this.

Because when you dig your feet in this publicly and you get what you want, there is very little margin for error. He's going to be coming up on a slow start. I think we can all expect the slow start for a guy who missed all of training camp. But over the life of this deal, the pressure is going to be very real on him to be the guy that he just very publicly said he thinks he is. Now, I'm very familiar with feeling like I'm on an island with my opinions that nobody else agrees with. But I feel like I've been on an island with my opinions this whole time. Everyone's been around, oh, it's going to be around 8 by 8, 8 by 8. What has Jeremy Swamoneman done to earn an 8 by 8 contract in this era of goaltending where

goaltending is just not valued that way? Jeremy Swamen is very good goalie. Don't get me wrong. Not trying to take anything away from himself. But let me quote Jeremy Swamen on Jeremy Swainman from the. Amazon show that, the face-off show that was just released. This is just before the playoffs, he said, quote, I still got so much more to offer and I haven't proven shit.

What has happened since then? He won one playoff series. One. And he was great. Don't get me wrong. He is now making as much money as Ilya Sorokin. He is now making $3 million more a year than UC Soros. Jeremy Swamon's never been a number one goaltender in his entire career.

He's making $3 million more than Lina Swarokin. Umar who he backed up. Am I crazy or is this a crazy contract? Well, some of that is the, you know, the length of the deal and the cap, right? Like, even like with Saros, Saros is making $5 million this year, but in one year, his salary goes up quite considerably to like 7.7. But to your point, still a half million dollars less the way he was making. And Soros is much more proven with the results, but also has much more proven with the workload,

right? And so, yes, on one hand, this is this is an anticipation of a cap. that we expect is going to be going up by three to four million dollars through the life of it. And at that point, you know, years five through eight, I think this will be a perfectly fine price that nobody's going to sneeze at. It might even be jealous of. But these first four years, Laz, I think are where the Bruins really need the value of this Jeremy Swimming.

You're trying to get the most out of whatever you have left in Brad Marchon, David Posternak's prime, Charlie McAvoy's prime. These are the first years, I think, are where you actually really have a chance as the Boston Bruins. and I do think it's going to be a tough ask for him to be that top five goalie. Now, he thinks he can be, certainly. Oh, he certainly. I mean, this is a guy who believes in himself more than almost anybody I've ever seen,

believe in himself. If you watch again, that Amazon, if he had a whole episode that was devoted to mostly him and his contract situation, this guy knows he's good. He thinks he's better than everybody, and that's what you want out of your any professional athlete, let alone a goalie. He believes it, but he has not proven that.

So it's a massive risk, a massive risk. a massive risk for the Bruins to give him eight years. Like this screamed a bridge deal, didn't it? This screamed, all right, we're going to give you three years, four years to run with the number one job and prove that you're the big guy. And then we could talk 10 million down the road. This is not what happened at all. Like Jeremy Swamond, all the credit in the world, he dug in his heels, he stood by what he believed.

His agent did a great job. He was obviously pissed off about the way arbitration went down. He said as much that the last year's arbitration, you know, he said one of the nox guy, he was writing things down after the arbitration. And one of the knocks against me was, hasn't performed in the playoffs. Check, which, holy shit, dude, you won one round. Calm down.

Again, like, he was great in that one round. But he split the first series that he won with Lena's own mark until he took over. This is a huge leap of faith from Boston. And Swamen might be the future of American goaltending. He could be the goalie. It could be he in Helibuck, you know, at the Four Nations Cup and in the Olympics. He's that good. He could be that good.

But he has not proven shit to use his own term. But I guess where the Bruins would come at this from, and maybe this is a misplay by the Bruins, right? They've already traded away, Letis Almem. They have given away all the leverage already. They had from the minute they traded him away. So what are you going to do if you don't have him? You're not going into this season with just Corpus Salo,

if you can avoid it at any chance. And if you bridge him and he does pop off like that, especially with what we think and what it sounds like Igor Shosturkin is going to get whenever his next deal comes, you're talking about for as high as this number sounds right now. you're probably talking about it $2 million higher if he delivers on a bridge deal. So it's just the Bruins making a bet, and it may not be the right bet, but that's what it is. I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

It's hard because we talked about this last week with Pierre about how difficult it is to judge the monetary value of a goaltender, because goalies only, number one goalies aside from like, you know, Vasilevsky and maybe Hellebuck, they only play 50, 55 games. There really aren't true number one goalies anymore. Is Jeremy Sweman going to play 65 games this year? Is he going to play 65 games next year? He's never played more than 44. We don't know if he can hold up.

We don't know what he'll look like as a true number one goalie. I would rather, if I were the Bruins, I would rather give him that bridge deal and pay the extra $2 million if I have to. When the cap goes up, I'd feel much better about it then. And again, Jeremy Swamen might live up to this contract and there might be a steal in a few years. But it's a big gamble. And I think you're right. The Bruins felt like they had no choice because I don't think that Jeremy Swamen would have accepted a bridge deal. They could have told him, we'll give you three years at $8 million.

and he would have told him to go town sand. So Swayman has played 132 NHL games in his career, never more than the career high 44 that he played last year. 43 of those were starts. Now that he's making, what he's making, $8.25 million a year. How many starts does he need to make next season to make good on that? Well, that's the thing.

Like I said, in theory, he should be making 65 or so, but that's not smart anymore. It doesn't happen. It's bad management. Like, it's not good to put your goalies through that. So it's really difficult to judge how much a goalie is worth. Igor Chess Durkin is probably the best goalie in the world, and he's going to make an awful lot of money. It's going to be seven figures or eight figures, but he's still only going to

play 55, 60 games a year. So what happens in those other 20, so if you're spending, you know, teams have to decide how much they want to spend on their goaltending and they think of it as a deal. Like it's, how much am I spending on goal team? Not how much on this goalie, but how much am I spending on goaltending? And most of them want to keep it below 10 million combined. Most of them want to keep it even much lower than that. You have some teams that are like four or five million in combined because that frees of money to spend on every day guys. It's really dicey to give any number one goalie that kind of money unless they are like proven megastars.

And Jeremy Swayman has all the potential in the world to be a megastar. He is not one yet. He just simply isn't. Yeah, it's corpusality of your point three. So it's 11.25 is the cap hit of the goaltending position for the Boston ruins. And you are 100% right. Four or five years from now when the cap's over 100 million, that's not going to feel like so much. but these next few years matter most of Boston.

They are clinging to that window. They have propped their window open for so long now. They have outlasted the Kings. They have outlasted the Blackhawks. They have outlasted the Penguins. But they've only got the one cup, and those teams all had multiple cups. They have been remarkable at keeping this alive,

you know, after Charra and after Bergeron. And here they are, they've got to do something in these next few years to really maximize that. And they've kind of strapped themselves a little bit by investing so much money in gold. All right. On that note, let's bring in our NHL insider, Chris Johnston. CJ, obviously this is the news of the day here, Swayman. And I guess my first thought on this is if Jeremy Swamen is getting $8.25 million here now,

what's Igor Shasturkin going to ask for when he's up for a new deal? Well, I think he's already asking for something that begins at least with an 11. And depending on who you believe might go as high as $12 million. And, you know, the clock is ticking now on the Shisterkin situation, not because, you know, he's a different situation than Swayman. Obviously, he's signed for this season, but he and his agent have told the Rangers they don't want to pursue a contract once the season gets going. And so, you know, I'm told as of late Sunday night anyway that nothing has progressed

there. But, you know, let's see the next few days if they're able to get some kind of number that if he's successful, if that's where it ends up, obviously would rewrite in a sense, so, you know, what goalies could make. It would move the bar for the first time and a long time. Kerry Price has made $10.5 million on a deal, you know, obviously carry price long out of the NHL at this point. A deal he signed seven years ago. This would bump it up. I think, you know, where Swayman has made some new friends here is among the restricted for agent goalie market. And, you know, guys like Jake Ottinger, Stuart Skinner, you know, some of the other younger goalies in his tier. When they go to the negotiating table next, you know that they're going to be pointing at that number that he's just signed for. Maybe they'll have a case at that time to be plus or minus a small amount. But, this changes the bar because, you know, Swayman only had two years that he was restricted free agent of this eight and six UFA years.

So this is definitely a contract without recent precedent. And, you know, I think it has to be viewed as a victory, quite frankly, for the Swamen camp. I think his decision to hold it right down to the 11th hour to, you know, had he been unsigned as a Monday, he would start to be losing actual money, whereas all he lost now is the chance to train with his teammates during training camp, which, And we'll see how significant or not that is depending on his performance. But from a contractual standpoint, this is a home run for him.

Not to sidetrack this, but you imagine, you say Schisturkin doesn't want to negotiate during the season. We hear that a lot. Is that real, is that just a negotiation tactic? Or is that a real thing? It's not like the players are talking to the GM every day and they're in these meetings hammering out the deals. The agent does that.

And the agent just says, hey, this is what we're doing. Like, how much does it really impact a player when his contract is being negotiated during the season? How involved is a player in that? Well, I mean, obviously players get looped in towards the end, I think, normally. I mean, by this point, obviously, Shasturkin and his agents, they've had a chance to work through all the, what this might look like. Like, I don't think there's any mystery about what he wants, certainly to his agent at this point.

And so if you're right, if Chris Drury and the Rangers come to him on December 10th and they put the contract on the table that he's been looking for to this point, I mean, it's hard to imagine he would say no, but, you know, it does try to pressure a deadline. I know, for example, Leon Drysidal ended up getting his extension done in Edmonton in late August there, but he had told the team he didn't want to negotiate, I think even once camp started. He basically said we got a window here where, you know, it's the offseason still. Let's get the business done and then, you know, get back to when we get to Edmonton to try to defend this, you know, take a run at the Stanley Cup after coming so close last year. So, you know, I do think there's an element of tactic to it. Sometimes these negotiations need a deadline. I mean, the Swayman thing for all, as public as it was, as entertaining, frankly, for an outsider as it was, you know, with the way things spilled over with Cam Neely and Lewis Gross, you know, Swamen's agent, it's kind of predictable it got done when it got done because from a cap perspective, life was going to get more difficult from the Bruins if they signed them in the season.

Won't bore you on the details, but essentially if you sign a player into the year, you get hit with a harder, a higher cap hit in that first season. And so they were already pretty tight to it. You know, he obviously doesn't want to lose one. 192nd of his paycheck as well that doesn't sound like a lot on 8.25 million dollar contract that's $43,000 a day. So you know, the point being is that there was real pain that was going to be introduced here if they got till Monday and didn't have the deal done. I mean, even a simple thing. They were flying down on Sunday afternoon to Florida. They opened the season there Tuesday, weather pending because there's some bad storms in the area around the Panthers rink there. But, you know, point being that this everything pointed even for all the theatrical.

to a Sunday resolution. And lo and behold, early Sunday morning, they did officially put pen to paper. I do also feel like the not negotiating in the season matters a bit more. If you think that there's a reason the player wouldn't want to be in New York, which we don't at this time really have any reason to believe about Igor Shusirkin. No. And, you know, I think that the issue is you go into the Great Unknown a little bit.

If you have a star quality player and you do go into that last season, I mean, basically all the powers in the player's hands, If the player performs well and doesn't want to negotiate, I mean, there's nothing he can just play it out. A lot of the players in that case, I actually don't know Shister, kind of top of my head, but a lot of players in that situation have a no movement clause. So it's not even like the team can trade them without their consent. I mean, you know, usually players that are at that level have a lot of, they basically control the process, I guess I would say. And so, you know, you have that this year, Mitch Marner in Toronto, you know, appears he's going to enter the season entering his last year deal. You've got Ranted in Colorado, a star quality player in a similar spot.

Perhaps it'll be Shusirkin with the Rangers. And all those guys, I mean, there's now, the risk goes both ways. If for whatever reason, then they don't have a healthy season, if they don't perform at their usual levels, maybe the teams in question here, you know, end up seeing the price fall a little bit. But, you know, I guess there's a nice piece of mind. If you have a player, you know you want to basically wrap them up the rest of their career, their functioning career as a top level talent. And it's probably best to get it done before you enter that year because there's a little bit of a calculated gamble on both sides.

I'd put it if you get into the season without that contract done. Anyone who watched episode three of the Amazon series knows that Jeremy Swamen harbors ill feelings about his arbitration case a year ago. That happens. It's understandable. You got to think that the Bruins are not thrilled about the way Swamen held the proverbial gun to their head throughout this. Does that matter now that he's locked up for eight years? Does any bad blood just disappear the second he wins a game? Or can that, can that, you know, fester and manifest some way? I suppose it could.

I think, you know, let's face it, on October 15th, there andabouts when he gets his first paycheck this season, I'm sure any bad feelings will be gone away. And he's, you know, making lots of money. He's obviously got the security for a lifetime for he and his family with this contract. And so, you know, as long as he comes back and he plays relatively well, I don't see any reason that this would fester. but, you know, if there's concerns about his performance, if that goes on even, I mean, let's face it.

I don't know what to expect. We don't see a goalie miss all of training camp to opts. I mean, Andre Vosceleschi did it last year in Tampa. He was recovering from surgery and didn't end up playing to late November. Didn't, you know, had for him what was very much an off season, you know, jumping in like that. But I don't know really what to expect short term for Swayman in terms of how much time he'll need to get up to speed and be ready to play. But, you know, I think there's always the possibility, of course, for maybe a bit of animosity. But, you know, Swamen really loves being in Boston.

I think he's genuine about that. Seems like very much a chip on his shoulder kind of guy. You know, I got that same impression, Laz, watching the Amazon series. I mean, he's from, you know, he's from Alaska, right? He was passed over by the college teams in his own region, you know, was drafted in the fourth round. You know, was kind of taken the long road, had that arbitration hearing. I mean, I feel like he seems to almost thrive on this idea that. like I have to prove myself again and again and again.

You almost wonder, to take the other side of the coin, you wonder for someone like that to get this kind of contract, does it, you know, does that change something for him? Because all the time. The edge off, yeah. Exactly. Like is he not feeling slighted anymore? I mean, despite the way negotiations may have gone and, you know, Cam Neely's comments of a week ago or so.

But, you know, it's, it's tough to see. I think ultimately they'll be okay as long as he plays well. But if he doesn't play well, I mean, it's the same with any player. can get a little tense with the organization and those types of things. But I will say this. I think Swayman, since he entered the league, has the fourth best, say, percentage among all goaltenders. I mean, he's, he's been a, he obviously hasn't been a proven at play every night,

kind of number one guy yet for a long period of time. But when he's played, he's been among the best at his position. And that's ultimately why they were willing to give him this deal. What did you think of the Amazon series, CJ? Have you watched it yet? Yeah, I binged the crap out of it. I will shamelessly say I loved it. I thought that they really, for my money, they achieved what they set out to do, which is giving us a level and a degree of access that I don't recall seeing previously.

I know there's been some other good shows. Like, I remember watching those HBO shows with the Road to the Winter Classic, you know, 10, 12 years ago, whatever that was. I think that those were for their time, especially pretty groundbreaking, you know, seeing Bruce Brudrow with the ice cream on him is at LaPelle or whatever. But it was, it was giving you a window into the players we didn't get. I think this goes even farther. The fact that they're there for, you know, when it ended up being a fairly historic kind of Stanley Cup tournament, you have Connor McDavid performing at the level he did,

even winning the cons might and a losing team, that Edmonton forces that series back from three nothing down and that they have the kind of access they did. I mean, I think that they did a really great job for the first crack at it. I'm really hoping to get a second crack at it because I think that, you know, you may not know this max, but the planning essentially started at the All-Star game. last year for this version of it.

They didn't even have all the players on board until like March. Like they got what I would call a late start at things just because of the timing of how things went. You know, I think that there's a lot more opportunity if it starts sooner. And so I know the league and box to box who produced a series, Amazon, that they're all going to get together here in the very near future, probably sometime this month and figure out if there will be a series two.

It's really as simple as do enough people watch this? Is there enough buzz? Does everyone think it's worth the cost that's put into making it to have? it happen again, but, you know, I know if they get a second crack out, I think they can make it even better. I think they can feature players maybe who aren't on Stanley Cup playoff teams. They got some ideas for, you know, involving other people that aren't just the players, maybe their partners or coaches or I just think there's a lot of different ways you can go with this. But for a first crack, I mean, I was riveted. And I don't know, was it four plus hours,

maybe the six episodes all added together. It was 45 minutes each, yeah. Yeah. And I don't know, I watched it in a day and a half. And that's only because I have a day job and some things to do around the house or else I would have watched it one day. I found the captain episode really, well, really a little dull, but the other five were top notch. I thought I thought Connor McDavid that he's the star of this show. Just to see how human is. I know people are making fun of him for the ranting and the screaming and the crying. I think that's phenomenal that we're seeing that.

He has this reputation as being a robot and he's anything but. And when you talk to him, you know, one on one, you realize he's a very bright guy and very thoughtful. and he's interesting and he's funny. And to see all that emotion come out, you know, my question is, you know, I love Drive to Survive, the F1 series that started this. I'm an F1, I watch every F1 race. I never cared about car racing for 40 years until I saw that show. But F1 drivers are massive egomaniacs.

They are like me Madonna's. They love the spotlight. It's all about that. Same thing to an extent with the tennis and golf series. Hockey players aren't wired that way. I'm wondering some hockey players are going to see what they didn't. like, oh, I want to be a part of that. But some players are going to see, I, you know, I saw too much of Conrad David.

I don't want people to see that out of me. Or I, you know, Matthew Kachuk comes off as, you know, this great, fun, chill guy. Some guys are going to like, I don't want people to think that I'm like, you know, fat, lazy and complacent in my pool on the day of a Stanley Cup playoff game. So I'm really curious to see how it resonates in the rooms. And if guys are more or less likely to want to be involved, because a lot of guys were involved and left on the cutting room floor. Austin Matthews was followed around, didn't see a word.

Sidney Crosby was followed around. didn't see him for a word. Connor Bedard didn't get a screenshot of time on this show. They really honed in on these, you know, what was it, eight or ten guys. So are people going to be willing to let these people follow them around and interview them and disrupt their families for this long? Maybe they're not even beyond the show. I'm really curious to see how other players responded.

Because I think the fans are going to eat it up. We're going to eat it up. We love this stuff. I'm wondering how other players are going to see it. Yeah, it's a great point. And honestly, I wonder, can they keep getting the star players? involved because I think ultimately that's going to drive it. I mean, there's lots of room for sort of a quirky sideline story. I mean, if you watch the golf documentaries, Joel Damon becomes

one of that who's sort of an every man golfer who takes the piss out of himself, for lack of afraid, like makes fun of his, where he stands in the world of golf. And I think there's room for that. But, you know, I'm watching that show because I want to see what Rory McElroy is doing and what's being said. And I think the same in hockey. Like, does Nathan McKinnon get on board is, is a Matthews there is does Crosby, you know, allow maybe some access into him? I mean, I feel like I know more about McConnell McDavid now than Sidney Crosby, just seeing you have a better sense of the guy. But to what you're talking about, like Philip Forsberg is one of the stars, him and his wife, Aaron, they're the most interesting people in the show. They're thoughtful and like big picture perspective

on on injuries and concussions and family life. Like, I was, I was most engaged with the Philip Forsberg episode, which is not a thing I expected going in. Yeah. And it's funny because they're talking about like she doesn't want to see him fight anymore because they've had a child. And I mean, it's stuff that's, I guess is obvious. But even for me covering this board, been around a long time, I don't think about that. I don't always see the whole picture, right? I mean, a lot of days I'm just focused on what's happening on the ice. What's happening maybe in the boardroom is there contract stuff, trade stuff?

But you're not thinking of at all times of the full picture. I think that's what a series like this can do and unlock. And, you know, I do know the NHL in the short term has had a lot of players put their hands up. I think some players kind of think this is cool, the reaction they've got. But, you know, obviously 800 guys in the league, there's a range of opinions there. And the proof will be in the pudding because you're right, it might get a little harder as the years go along to get this kind of unfettered access into some of the best in the game. The best part of the HBO series was Bruce Bruchreau screaming at his players, get your asses out of your heads. Like he was so mad, you couldn't even get the words out right.

That was my favorite part. What gives me hope that they could continue and maybe even expand is what the NFL has done, right? It starts with hard knocks for sure, and that's been on forever. And, you know, maybe lost a little bit of Zing the last few years. But they've even done these companion shows, quarterback and receiver. And to your point about the spouses, right, like Claire Kittle comes off fantastic in the most recent episode receiver, most recent series, I should say. I think there's a lot of little angles.

But the attachment you can develop to a guy who's striving to be the 53rd man, on the roster in a span of four weeks is shocking. And I think it's really good for the NFL, and I think it can be really good for the NHL. Agreed. And the one thing I will say is the league at least finally gets this. Like Steve Mayer is a big driver, a big proponent. But, you know, he addressed the GMs at the GM meetings last year in Florida and

March and was basically like, we know a lot of you like to put up roadblocks. Like, stop it. This is vital for our business. You know, obviously Amazon is becoming a bigger partner for the league with, you know, having Monday night games nationally in Canada this year, having the wraparound show on Thursday nights. I mean, I think that it's a sign of where things are going in some ways

with rights deals coming up in the next couple of years. So, you know, this is an important time for the league to strike. I think the business side of hockey is in a good spot, and they're looking to grow. And I don't know how you argue against this. Like, I don't know tangially. I don't know if they're going to have more Lazas who watch F1 now just because you saw a driver to survive.

I don't know if someone sitting in Louisiana watches face. off and actually then I never would have thought I never would have thought I would have thought I would become a gearhead here I am talking about you know tire composition and stuff on a Sunday afternoon so you never know I'm not a target audience for F1 right but even if honestly even though it's just another way to to feed your current audience I don't think there's an argument against it I really yeah you know I I'm with you thank goodness to car McDavid uh had the year he did when the cameras were there that they captured all that and then ultimately that that didn't fall on the cutting room floor because I think in some other

so-called behind-the-scenes shows we've seen made in the last 10 years, that probably doesn't get put out there publicly, but it's a sign that this is important, and they really wanted to create something meaningful. Yeah, and to that point, like the NFL compels teams to you hard knocks, right? You have to meet, you know, one of two or three different categories if you want to have the ability to reject it. Otherwise, the league just tells you you're doing this.

So having the NHL on board and pushing for that is... I wonder, the three of us would love, you know, they did a hard-knocks off season this year with the New York Giants. really into the draft Re-Agency. Like that's, you, the three of us would eat that up. I'm not sure there's a large enough hockey audience

to talk about that side of, like to get into, you know, the war room with Kyle Dubas or anything like that. But man, we'd eat that up. Oh, I would watch that in one day. I wouldn't need two days to binge that one. Great stuff, CJ.

Thanks so much for joining us. As always, we're going to take a quick break right there. I'll be right back. All right, we're back. And I don't want to spoil the whole show for people here, Las. Amazon series here. I haven't watched it yet. What's like the one moment that whenever I do get around to watching it? What's the one moment that I'm going to be just mind blown, text it all my friends

about? Well, I'm sure you've seen it by now. It's Connor McDavid losing his mind after the Stanley Cup final. It's funny, you know, I got a screener because I was doing like a preview story on it. So they sent me a screener a couple of weeks ago. And they just sent me episode one. And episode one had like a sizzle reel at the start of it. And like 80 seconds into this thing, it's McDavid. And he's, you know, uncensored. I think the FAAF in the locker room after a loss. Absolutely going ballistic. Like you've never seen Connor McDave. You've never seen any hockey player like this before.

It's crazy. And I tweet out, I'm like, oh my God, I'm not allowed to say any spoilers, but 85 seconds into the first episode of the show is a moment that's going to be mean forever and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they put it in the trailer. They put it in the trailer. They put it in the trailer censored and lost all of its impact. And I was so mad about that.

It was such this great moment of it. Again, a guy who is very shell, you know, kind of cuts himself off from that. He doesn't want that. He's got a carefully curated public image. And it was this raw emotion. And people are like, look how soft he is. He can't even contain himself. I'm like, that's what I want.

I want these guys to care. Have you ever seen anybody care about something as much as Connor McDavid was caring about the Stanley Cup final in that moment? I thought it was fantastic. Well, what I thought you were going to say when you said you've already seen it, because the one, the clip that I saw going around was him coming into the locker room and you can hear. I don't know if you could hear it in the locker room or not or if that's just some really good video editing work,

but they're announcing him as the winner of Tom Smythe and he's just, it's a dead silent room. Well, what's great is, is, you know, they show that again later at the very, very end. And you actually see the comment, you see and hear the conversation. He's standing outside the room in his jersey still. He hasn't come off the, you know, hasn't gotten in the room yet. And Steve Mayer, the chief content, obviously, the NHL comes up to him and says, you won the Khan Smyth. And he's like, they want me. And McDavid goes, they want me to go out there.

And mayor says, yeah. And then they cut off the sound. And you see McDavid walk off into the room. And then they cut to an interview from days later where he says, I wouldn't have gone out there for a million dollars. But we actually see the moment they tell him that he won the cons smite and asked him to go out. Like, that's the access that I think all of us crave, like that real peel back the curtain look. Well, and that's why I think at the end of that clip that I saw at least, I think Zach

Hyman's like, get those cameras out of here, right? peel the curtain back on, please. Which, by the way, not an unpopular opinion among professional sports locker rooms right now from what I was gathering over the weekend. Do you see the NFL PA thing? Yeah, the players want the reporters out of the room. And they mean it. Did you take it, though? Like, everything I saw about this seemed like it was really about cameras.

Like, that seemed to be the main thrust of this, right? Like, which is not, which is like 10%. Yeah, but professional athletes do not distinguish between cameras and reporters. They don't distinguish between internal media and external media. They don't distinguish between the broadcasters who travel on the team plane and our team employees and us. It's all just quote unquote media. So I don't think that they're distinguishing.

They're not saying we don't want cameras in the room. They're saying we don't want, quote, media in the room. I think you're right. I think the cameras have a lot to do with you. You hear a lot about what we don't want nudity. And I've been in NFL rooms. after a game. There's a lot of nudity in that room. There's no doubt about it. There's not in hockey. There hasn't been since, this is before your time, my first job out of school,

I was covering the Penguins in 2001. And they did that that's before they had like a, because the way locker rooms work in the NHL, as you know, is they have the lock, the dressing room, which is where they take off their jerseys and their pads and they hang up their skates. And then they go off into another room. That's the actual locker room. And that's where they put on their streetclothes. They do not get naked in front. of us. We do not see naked men anymore in the locker room. Thank God for that. Because it's uncomfortable for everybody. There's no reason for us to need to see that. The dressing room, which is where we're in, is everyone's decent. It's safe and fine in there. It's okay to have a

camera in there. Nobody's going to be exposed to anything. NFL's a little different. NFL post game, they're all getting changed in that locker room. And I distinctly, I covered the bears for a few years. And oh, my God. After a game, we were waiting for Khalil Mack, who had this monster game. And there's like 50 of us. It's the Bears. So this is like a million members of the media out there. There's like 50 of us crowded around his locker as he comes out of the shower. And he comes out of the shower. He's got just a towel on. And it was it was excruciating. It took him like, he was intentionally getting dressed as slowly as possible to make a point. And I kind of didn't blame him for it. It took him a full seven minutes to get dressed.

He was like, he was putting on each sock very slowly, putting his watch on, putting his chain on. Like just pretending that we weren't there kind of making a point. And I get it. I get it. I get it, but this is going to lead to a bad place. I don't know that I think it's actually going to happen. I think people kind of know the value of that. And for listeners, I guess you may or may not, like that do they? Maybe not the players.

I think the people who make these calls, I think do understand that, you know, I think the refrain you'll often hear from people is like, you can ask, you know, what do you need to get pucks deep or whatever from in the locker or more from in the hallway, it doesn't matter or whatever. And what I guess I would impress upon people, not that anyone wants to hear two sports writers lecture them about. That's what we're about to do. I guess so. Any question that you actually want the answer to, your only prayer of getting that answer is in the locker room in a private moment with a player, not in a scrum, not at a camera, not at a camera.

The stuff that fans see on their local news or on sports center or, you know, scrum lurkers on Canadian Sports Center, that's garbage. Like, that's worthless. Like, there's almost no point in going to a room after a game now. But after a morning skate, you know, I write all kinds of stupid stories where I talk to guys about what language they think in and how many times they change their clothes and, you know, all kinds of weird, quirky stuff that I can't, like, call up the Colorado Avalanche to say, hey, I'd like to talk to Nathan McKinnon about how, you know, does he watch games? Does he watch games as a fan or is he analyzing the play? They're going to tell me to go pound sand because nobody wants to talk to me about that. But in a locker room setting, I can just say, hey, one-on-one, you can kind of ask a dumb question and it can spin off into a great conversation that leads to like four other stories. And all the stories that people like reading that really, you know, that we see the metrics, the stories that do well are generated in the locker room because of casual conversations that spin off into more interesting ideas and the trust that builds up between a reporter and a player and their willingness to talk to you because they trust you because they know you.

The NFLPA is saying we could just, whoever you want, we'll just pull them out of the room and bring them out. That's not the same. It's not. And when you do that, other people are going to glom on to your interview, too. If everyone's standing outside in the hallway, six cameras are going to descend up on you the second you pull a guy aside. And there goes your interview. There goes your dumb question, at least the fun answers. Look, every time I say this, people roll their eyes and they think I'm a douchebag, but everyone thinks I'm a douchebag.

So what does it matter? the players and the reporters are essentially co-workers. We share an office space, whether they like it or not, and I know a lot of them don't. I get it. We share an office space. And for like 30 minutes, 20 minutes a day, we're co-workers. We work together. They're people we have to talk to for work.

And they have to talk to us. It's in their contracts that they have to talk to us. So we just get through it. And it's not that big a deal. And it's not that invasive. And especially in hockey, it's not invasive at all. We're in there, we're out. Nobody sees anything.

it's fine. And players can still hide. There's 75 auxiliary rooms in every NHL locker room now. This isn't the 1970s, these old arenas where they couldn't hide. You know, if someone doesn't want to come out and talk, we're not going to get them. So every, I'm worried because, you know, every sport is a copycat sport. And if they see the NFL, this happens in the NFL and the NFL actually kicks reporters out, it's eventually going to happen in every other sport.

And the stories people want to read aren't going to get written. And I think that would be a bummer. Yeah, really locker room time for me is like as much relationship building and making sure that you understand who these people are beyond when they're on the ice, right? And how they come at things. And then, yeah, like you said, it's a lot of the time to ask the questions that you know nobody wants to answer in front of the camera, whether they're going to have their name on the answer or not, right? But I think that's really the key to it all. And by the way, it can go both ways. Difficult questions, too.

Like, you know, let me give you an example where, Brent Seabrook at the end of his black-auss career was, you know, Dom every year wrote, worst contracts in the NHL and number one with a bullet was always Brent Seabrook. It was kind of sad because this is a guy who had won three cups. He was beloved. He was the heartbeat of that locker room. And it was kind of sad to see, you know, fans turning on him because of his contract,

a contract that wasn't his fault. Dan Bowman gave him a contract. And he's like, okay, yeah, I'm going to sign that. He's going to give it back. But he was getting crap for it because he wasn't playing up to it. It was six point, whatever, million dollars and it was way more than he deserved at that point. So, you know, I remember he got a healthy scratch in Otto was the first time where Jeremy Colleton finally decided to scratch it. And this

was a big, big deal. And, you know, if I had done that in, and this was in Canada, too. So there's a ton of reporters there. And if they do that in a scrum in the locker room, it's going to get, he's not going to give any answers. It's going to go badly. And it's, he's going to come across badly too. And you're just the whole time you're answering. at that point. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to ask in that setting either. I know, me and Brent Seabrook have worked together for a long time. And I feel like I can ask him that, but this isn't the setting. So I kind of waited them out. I told the PR staff, look, I need to talk to Seabrook about this. I think I'm the only one he will talk to about this. Let me linger in the

room. So I kind of lingered in the room while Colleton was doing his scrum outside. And Seabrook came out, we talked for a few minutes. I asked him difficult questions. He gave me some sincere answers. And as I'm walking back out of the room, he comes running after me. Brent Seabrook, big, you know, big, you know, strong, you know, give you shit, man, who hates the media and all that, pulls me, slash, last, last, last. Did I say anything in there that's going to get me in trouble? And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, it's like, it's really important to me that I don't come across negative to the fans because they mean everything they mean.

This is off the record stuff. It's like, I just, he's like, I understand the situation. I understand it sucks. But I don't want to, I want to make sure I didn't say anything that I'm going to regret. And I'm like, I went back, oh, no, you said, you said the right things. I think you did this. And it was a conversation we had. And it wasn't that he was telling me what to write.

And it wasn't that I would change my writing because of what he said. But we were able to have a conversation as two grownups. We're basically the same age. And we were able to have a conversation as two grownups about a tricky situation. And this is why he was willing to talk to me as opposed to talking in a scrum. I think that fans lose sight of that relationship building that you're talking about. You build that up over years of being in the room and treating people fairly. If you treat people fairly, they're more willing to give you their time.

All right. Let's take a break right there. We'll be right back talking about the start of the season. We got a season underway here. Devils are 2 and O, and 2. How much, if anything, do you make of this, these starts? I wonder how many fans know the season has actually started. It's funny because five years ago this week, I was in Prague for the Blackhawks opener against,

I think it was the Flyers. Yeah, because Gritty was there. Gritty was wandering Prague. I was supposed to follow him around Prague within a rain. It was going to be such a great story, and then it never happened. Yeah, these games are. You're weird. I know you're not very high on them, right? The global series games are the start of the, yeah, I could take or leave it, honestly.

I went last year in Stockholm and was quite underwhelmed. It felt like, it felt like just kind of an NHL atmosphere that you had to travel a really long way for. But I will say if you're going to do it, I do think doing it at the very front end is the right call for the team. So you don't have this huge disruption and all the travel and you give them some time to get back to normal. But I could take it or leave it. I look at the global series games as the same way I look at the stadium series games, the non-winter classic outdoor games. They're for the people in the building.

Like, I remember before Prague, the Prague game was fine, but there was an exhibition game against Lucas Reikles' old team, the Ice Barron Berlin in Berlin before they went to Prague. And that game was awesome, man. It was like a soccer game. There's like the entire crowd of the side of the stadium is singing the whole game and chanting. And it was really fun. and it wouldn't have come across well on television, I don't think.

But if you were one of those fans who traveled for that, and a lot of people did because we had an athletic hangout at a bar in Prague and like 100 people came, it was super fun. That's a great experience. It's like those stadium series games, are great experiences that don't translate well on TV and don't carry a lot of significance. But I think, you know, it's All-Star games are like that, too.

All-Star games are for sponsors and for fans. And they're fun if you're there. Well, but what you just said there is a different thing, I think. So you talked about them playing the German team, the Berlin team, right? Like, I've been to SHL games. Those are awesome. Everyone's chanting, singing, all that because that's their team. But when you just plop two teams that aren't their team onto that ice sheet.

Now, I guess the Sabres, the Czech Sabres fans, I think actually did have a couple chance. But that's what I was most disappointed by when I went is I was like, oh, right, they don't have like a Red Wings song in Stockholm. They don't have a senator's song. Yeah, I mean, back when I was, you know, not to be an old guy again, but when I was a kid, like the Soviet teams would come through barnstorming. And I see like the islanders play like Moscow Dynamo at Nassau Coliseum. And that felt like it's supposed to be an exhibition, but it did not feel like an exhibition.

It was a lot of fun. I do wish there was more stuff like that these days. But I think the injury risk is so severe. And these guys are so expensive and valuable that we'll never really see those kind of exhibitions again. But we see it in soccer. And maybe that's more like national team, I guess kind of thing. But like even like real Madrid came and played a game at the big house.

And I think that's like turf. Like I don't even know what they, if maybe they had to replace grass or something. I think like Rinaldo played in that game. I don't remember exactly, but there were big names on some of these teams. Yeah, I'm in Salt Lake City right now for the opener against the Blackhawks. And two days ago, a team from New Zealand to play the jazz here. So I think the injury risk is a lot less severe in some of these sports you're talking about. Yeah, fair.

And then hockey. So that's part of it. But it's a shame because I remember those games felt like a big deal. Like that was back when you could have an All-Star team play. a Russian, a Soviet team and it felt like, oh, my God, there's a lot at stake here. Our national pride is at stake. You know, it's hard to get worked up about a game like that these days. Honestly, what I would be here for is, is the SHL and Finnish League and the Czech top

league and maybe even the KHL doing that with like the AHL. Because I think there's always these debates on like, you know, oh, how do these other league stack up to each other? What's really the second, yeah, what's really the second best team in the world? In Europe, they have the Champions League, which kind of determines who the best teams in Europe are. But I'd love to say, like, the winner of the Champions League come play, you know, whether it's like the Calder Cup champs of the HL or even some kind of like semi-meaningful exhibition against an NHL team. Can you imagine asking a hockey player after winning, if playing four rounds of the playoffs after 82 games. Hey, we got one more series for it.

No, no, you're doing it. You're doing at the start of the next year, I think. Preseason is what we're talking about. A HL teams, they change dramatically over the course of an offseason. Yeah. It'd be really hard to put together. I love the idea of it. But again, in the modern sports world,

like none of these things can happen anymore. And that's the shame of it. Yeah, no, it's true. I did have an actual take on the game, though, which is that the Jacob Markstrom thing for the Devils, that was the right call. He looked fantastic for them. Having a goalie is a good thing.

Who knew? Who knew that the thing that everyone knew was wrong with the Devils was the only thing holding back the Devils? Getting Dougie Hamilton will be nice, too. I mean, there's a lot of reasons that the Devils are trendy picks this year. It's weird with the Devils, because like two years ago, it seemed like they skipped several steps and went right to contention, right? They had that monster season.

And so then everybody expected them to stay there. And then they had a huge backslide last year. And now everyone's expecting them to go right back to contender. Like, give them a chance to take some steps here. Like, it's all or nothing. They're going to win the cup or they're going to be in the lottery. Like, there's never any middle ground with this team. But I am back in.

I mean, I was in on them way too long last year. I think I was still at like trade deadline, maybe even later, going, no. No, they'll still find a way, and it just did not happen. But I really do think with Marks and with Jake Allen, both of whom played really well for them. Now, granted, Buffalo had a really tough start, too. But I'm in on this Devils team. I don't think there's a clear weakness, personally. Did you see the Twitter video put out by the Devils after they went?

They showed O2 Arena. That's the name of the Arena in Prague. And they slowly morphed the O2 to O&2 and put a Sabres logo in there. I wonder what players think about it. about these like, these like, you know, 25 year old social media people just dunking on their teams constantly after a game. I always wonder like, like, it's funny and it was creative and it was, it was a really nicely done edit. It was very well done. But it's like, I wonder if one of these days someone's going to get pissed about this stuff. Oh, I'm sure. They have to.

You're, you're walking out and you're getting clown like that. I would have to imagine. It's not a, I wonder if they almost, you tell your own social media manager, I, I want blood whenever. the opportunity comes against the devils or whatever. I once wanted to do a story. I wanted to talk to the social media managers for all the worst teams in the league and what it's like to have to tweet like final scores out. And just to do you read the mentions? Do you have your, is the whole world muted?

Do you have to like, you know, buck yourself up at night afterward? And every single team refused to let me talk to their first. I tried. I tried. I think my answer is pretty clear there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, while we're on the topic and I'm being an old.

old man. If I had like one wish for the world, maybe it would be world peace, but it might also be to force team accounts to use punctuation in capital letters. Is it asking so much to use the English language? Do we have to do everything lowercase without punctuation? Does everything have to be a Dom loose jizzen tweet? Can we use punctuation people? Can we? You're a billion dollar company. Use punctuation. It could also be all caps and all the punctuation. That's a skip bailist tweet. Yeah. He's done very well for himself. If you were a social media manager, you'd be saying that me, let's get bail us too. Sadly.

All right, we got one more thing to do before we get out of here, Laz, and that is our BetMGM segment. And I thought since you are in Utah, ahead of the franchise debut for Utah HC, I wanted to get your thoughts on their team season point total over under, which is set at 87 and a half for Utah HC. Fun off season. Does that get them to 88 plus? You know, I had Arizona getting a playoff spot at the beginning of last year. And for half the year, I looked pretty smart until they kind of win the tank. I like this team that they built. They got a lot of young guys. They're going to have a lot of excitement behind the team in a new arena, in a new city, all that stuff.

You add Surgachev, you add Marino. The defense is going to be a lot better. I'm going over 87.5. I'm not quite sure. My concern is the Central Division is really, really top-heavy. There are four just absolute juggernauts ahead of them. So it's going to be tough to amass a ton of points against those teams. But I like what Utah has here.

I'm dreading the singular name that's coming because I hate all singular team names. But I think this is going to be a really good hockey team that's going to be, you know, it's not technically an expansion team, but they're going to be more Vegas than they are Seattle. Your concern is the Centrel. My concern is the Centres, which is Barrett Hayton, Logan Coolly. It's a talented group, but it is still an inexperienced group up top. and then Josh Dohn, Kevin Stendland. I think if Logan Cool, he's ready to take that, like, year two leap that we sometimes see,

87 and a half is very achievable, 88, very achievable. Like, maybe even surpass that. And Hayton's still getting better, too. But that would be my one concern. It's like it is a young center group, one, two, three there to really feel super confident. And look at who the centers are on the teams above them, like in Dallas and Colorado and Nashville, good luck. Yeah. So that's that's the, that's really the question. But it's if you're, if you're feeling that good and they feel really good about Dylan Genther to give him the contract that they just gave him.

Yep. And Logan Cooley will be again, whatever happened to bridge deals, man. Well, teams I think we're getting burned on them. I mean, I think the bridge is is really meant for teams that are in their compete window right that second. Every dollar is so important to them right that second. But for teams that are not like that. And that's your Ottawa's your Buffalo's. Detroit just did it a couple. on a couple of guys, and now in Utah's doing it. You're doing this with those, you know, we talked about with Swayman. It's these first three, four years that matter. With these other teams, it's the last four years. So you're really trying to get savings on those years by locking in early.

I blame Connor McDavid. Connor McDavid assigned a bridge deal. He'd be making $20 million a year right now. And David Posternich, for that matter. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. All right, that'll do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show.

please leave us a five-star rating and review. If you are enjoying the show, the next episode will be Wednesday with the Shons and F. Sean Carado.