The Athletic Hockey Show - Tampa Bay & Colorado get the leg up in round two, The battle of Alberta and New York and Carolina begin Wednesday night

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Rob, Sara and Jesse breakdown the Tampa Bay Lightning's game one win over the Florida Panthers, Nikita Kucherov's sick hands, and the Panthers struggles to fill the net as they did in the regular season.The roundtable discusses a huge game for Jordan Binnington in the Blues OT game one loss in Denver to the Avalanche, the coaching change in Vegas and the Maple Leafs plan to stay the course after yet another first round loss.Arthur Staple from the Garden Faithful podcast joins the roundtable to help preview the underdog New York Rangers led by Hart Trophy finalist Igor Shesterkin vs the Carolina Hurricanes who are the favorite in the series, but who have goaltending injuries to contend with.In our rapid fire segment, the roundtable offers their opinions on Sidney Crosby, Bruce Boudreau and Lane Lambert and Billy Guerin's vow to bring both Marc-Andre Fleury and Cam Talbot back to the Minnesota Wild for next season. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, on everybody. Welcome to the athletic hockey show, the Wednesday round table edition, round number two of the Stanley Cup playoffs. I am Rob Beasel from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger, who's had a pretty interesting week in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? Yeah, I was supposed to have like a relaxing couple months during the playoffs, but this is Vegas, so never a dull moment. And we knew Sarasivian wasn't going to have a relaxing couple of months covering the Carolina hurricane. sorry, Sarah. Relaxing. Yeah, I'm the opposite of that. But you know what? Having a good time here.

It sounds like it. I know. Sarah's just like, oh, move on. What are we talking about? This is what we play for. This is what we live for. The game seven.

But you know what? Before we even get into this, because you bring up a good point, I've done the playoff run, you know, following, you know, as a ringside reporter where wherever series go and however long they go, that's how long you're working.

And I certainly don't want people to listen to this and make it sound like we're complaining about our jobs. Exactly. But it's a grind. I will say it's a grind, especially when you're watching a game six and you're like, well, if this ends now, I'm going to fly here. But if it doesn't, oh, I'm here for it. It's a grind for us too, isn't it? I don't want people. I'm not looking for people to feel sorry for us.

Yes, it is the most fun grind ever. It's the best. Yeah, it's the grind. But sometimes there's nothing better than your own bed and your own pillow. but we're going to stop complaining because people are going to think you guys are nuts. You get to watch hockey for a living. And we've been watching a lot of hockey in round number two. Oh, I should mention Arthur Staples going to be joining us in the second half of the show to talk.

A little bit of Rangers in Carolina. I'm sure Sarah will have a few things to say about that one too. But let's talk with last night's games because we got a couple game ones. The Tampa Bay Lightning and the Florida Panthers. Guys, the Sunshine Series, as everyone likes to call it. And this is exactly one of the reasons why Gary Bettman and the NHL wanted to have division. playoffs to get things like this. Tampa with a 4-1 win to take a 1-0 series lead, and we'll get to the lightning in a minute. Am I the only one who thinks Florida looks off

now that we've seen seven games from the Panthers in these playoffs? Sarah? I mean, the penalty kill was, okay, my cat is wanting to weigh in on this. Penalty kill is not looking great to me. I mean, I think they can turn that around. I don't know about Brobsky right now. I thought the end of their first round was convincing me again with they need to be a high scoring team if they're going to be good because that's their ML. I don't know, guys, what do you think? I'm more concerned with the other special team. The power play, they were 0 for 20 in the first round and they were good enough at even strength to, like, you're not going to win mini playoff series going over on the power play.

Covering the Golden Knights, their season ends every year because they can't score on the power play. You're not like they were good enough to overcome that in the first round. I will personally guarantee they will not beat the Tampa Bay Lightning if they don't score a power play goal in this series. You have to score on the power play, especially when you're not a, you're not built to win games two to one, right? Like this is not a grinded out shot suppression team that's going to win a game two to one. They need to score goals. And if you're not scoring on the power play, you're going to have a hard time beat in Tampa Bay. I'm very concerned with Florida's power play, not just the lack of production, but it doesn't look

good either. Sometimes you have stretches where the puck just doesn't go in, but you're, you're moving the puck around, you're doing good things. They're not doing good things. And this is a team that was elite on the power play. Oh, for three last night on the power play. And I'm with you on this. I mean, you've got a team averaging more than four goals per game. You've got one of the best power plays in the league. And you're just not going to win without those power play goals. And like I said, it's just a team that we always just assume. can come back to. They've had so many of those multi-goal comebacks all year long. And I've watched all seven of their games, six against Washington, obviously one last night. And they just

don't seem like that powerhouse. And I don't know if it's just a matter of, again, are we talking about this team the way we've talked about other teams? Maybe Tampa Bay three years ago, maybe, you know, the Leafs all the last five years. They're great at scoring in the regular season, but that same sort of style is not going to work in the playoffs. Or trying to change that kind of style isn't going to work. Like, you need an elevated version of the best version of yourself in the playoffs. You really can't start trying to become a defensively stingy team or something when you're known for your high scoring.

Yeah, I always say the playoffs are like the regular season on steroids. Like you just, you need to pump, you need to pump that needle in your arm and you need to go. I think those high scoring teams, I think they, they learn how to be high scoring in the play. I don't know. Like when I watched, when I look at Tampa Bay, they're the best example because they figured it out. And they, and they've won two cups in a row. But like, they didn't change the way they played. They just got better at it. And they figured out different ways to score. And they like added

layers to their offensive game. And I think you're starting to see that with Colorado. I think Colorado is is at a different point in that progression. But they look like a different team. Because this team, the abs have been great for three years. And they lose in the second round every time and they can't score. And now suddenly it looks like maybe they're starting to learn. I think Florida is in an earlier stage of that progression. They just haven't figured it out how to make, like, like Sarah said, play an elevated form of your game, but also you, you can't just score in transition in the playoffs. That's how Florida scores. We're, we're going to, this is going to be a track meet. We're going to run up and down the ice and we're going to, we're more skilled than you

are. We're going to score more. And in the playoffs, teams don't let you do track meets. our defensemen are going to sit back, especially when you get a lead. This Panthers team, they come back all the time, but like in the playoffs, when teams get leads, especially a team is good as Tampa Bay. They're not pressing forward. Their defensemen are sitting back. If you fall down two goals to Tampa Bay, transition is gone. It's over. You're not getting any. Period. The end. They are not going to let you score in transition. You're going to have to find other ways to score. I think we've seen so many teams do that progression where they just stomp all over the league. Washington. How many years did Washington just score so many goals in the regular season?

Their power play was almost automatic and it took them years to figure out how to do that in the playoffs. Tampa Bay, as you mentioned, another example, three years ago, I mean, they were, you're a 60-win team and you flame out in the playoffs. You haven't figured it out yet. And I just, they're still alive and they're only not one game to nothing, so I'm not writing them off yet. But this is what I feel like with this Florida team. I think so much of it is also a little bit of luck and matchups. And it's like a kind of a bad matchup for them with Tampa Bay. How amazing is Kutrov? I mean, that assist on the Corey Perry cool. If that was a basketball game, the whole bench would have been up throwing their towels

and doing everything. They broke Aaron Eckblad's ankles. That was, and then slides it over to Perry for a tap-in. That was just incredible. Legend has it, Aaron Eckblad is still skating the wrong way. Right now. He's still skating the wrong way. He's skating out of the arena and out of the movie. I cannot believe, like, you don't see in hockey a defenseman bite that badly very often. Like, It was, it was jarring to watch because it, like you said, basketball. That was a crossover. And you just do not see that in hockey. One, because you don't have many guys that can do what Nikit Kutrov does.

But two, Ekblad was aggressive on that. Like, he was going for the poke. And he just, he just missed so bad. It was fun to watch. And it was one of those things where, like, in basketball, the guy does the crossover. And it's like, please don't miss the shot and ruin this highlight. Kuturoff finishes it off with like, Bobrovsky didn't even attempt to get over. he was just like, and that's a goal.

Yeah, that was, it was just an errant Eklad of all defensemen. I mean, you really just don't expect to see that. Quickly sticking with Kutrov, I've said this before. I'll say it again, you guys are going to get sick of me saying this. I've watched a billion hockey games in my life. I still don't know what goaltender interference is. I saw that Kuturoff goal. I saw Anthony Sorrelli bump Bobrovsky in the head and the goal is allowed.

Am I the only one who's confused with this? I feel like there's zero consistency. I don't think the goal should have counted. Well, even in round one with the hurricanes, Rod Rendemore rarely does a call that he thinks isn't going to get overturned. And then it didn't work out in his favor. And he's saying the same exact thing happened with Nino Nieder Rider. It's just like it was the same thing, but this rule can be interpreted by different

officials in different ways. So it's just kind of like so arbitrary. they need to make it more specific. So it's like any other call, right? Like it's really like any other call. It depends on who the ref is. Right. I feel like I understand why they wrote the rule as as subjective as they did.

But I think it's the wrong. I think it's wrong. I think they need to make it more black and white because we just can't figure it out. And I'm with you, Rob. I don't know when it's going. It's funny because I used to like my first couple years covering the league. I would put out like a tweet during the review like a definitive tweet like this is absolutely goal interference and then I would get crushed when when they called it the

other way I've learned over the last five years just wait for them to announce it and then say what they said I am I am no longer trying to guess or predict or or break down what I think happened because I it's just impossible I'm the worst I'm the worst I watched that last night and I'm thinking there's no way this goal counts and of course, it ends up counting. I don't know what to do. I don't know. Maybe it is more of a black and white thing.

Maybe it's more of a, especially in the playoffs of consistency, the same people making the call every time. I saw a guy interfere with a goaltender's ability to stop the puck. And there are other times where I've seen it the other way and goals get disallowed. So anyway, Tampa with a one nothing series lead in the Sunshine series in a shocking turn of events, the Colorado Avalanche. A one nothing series lead in their series against the blues. 54 to 25, guys.

The shots were 54 to 25 for Colorado, including 13 to nothing in overtime. Yeah, you usually don't outshute a team that badly and still need to go to overtime. But they take a one-nothing lead with a three to win. Josh Manson, you make these acquisitions at the deadline for times like this. But is this another waste of eight days, guys? I know that's Jesse's favorite, Darrell Sutter quote. I don't think so. No?

Maybe I'm wrong on this and I'll be eating my words. I think St. Louis is going to make this a series. I still think even after watching that massacre and it went to overtime so it feels weird calling at that, but it was just, it was domination. I still think the Blues win two games in this series. Jordan Biddington is Jordan Bittingtoning. He's in 2019 form. What do we think about that, goalie expert, Jesse? I think I think Jordan Binnington is the is the,

strangest, weirdest goal. Like, goalies are all weird. He's the weirdest of the bunch. Not just in that he's like a fiery personality that wants to fight everybody, but also in that you have absolutely no idea what you're getting out of him on a nightly basis. Like he seems to have the lowest of lows and the highest of highs. If he is, like you said, in 2019 form, the Blues might win more than two games this series. If he's that good.

He was really good last night. Obviously, it took the abs a million shots to finally get one. in and overtime. I don't know if Bennington's going to Bennington them. I just think the Blues are a good team. I think they didn't play that well last night, but they're so deep. This team has 920 goals scores. I just, I think the Blues can make this a series. It didn't last night did not make me feel any better about that prediction, but I'm still sticking with it. I'm not ready to just say this is a waste of eight days like the first series was. Bennington made 51 saves. He was outstanding. They score first. They score on the power play. They do everything they can and they still lose this

hockey game. Yeah. How demoralizing is that? If you're a blues fan or the blues, I just, you know, we talked about game one between the Rangers and the Penguins just being demoralizing to the loser because of the true. I think last nights, you know, they shouldn't have been in that game. They stay in that game.

They're in overtime. They get badly outplayed, no shot. Even in overtime, they lose. I just think that was a real gut punch too. So what if they're sitting there saying, hey, they tripled our shots last night and barely beat us in overtime? It's all about how you look at it. And I think it could be good.

for Bennington just to kind of know he still has that in him. He's so about confidence, right? Like, I don't think confidence or lack of confidence affects a goalie more than Bennington. Like, when he feels like he's got your number and he's like letting you know during the game, you can see him chirping the guys after saves. Like, I don't know. Like, he gets into a groove more than most. Like his groove is like when he's in it, he knows what he's doing.

And like I said, that confidence is a big part of that. Oh, there's got to be a little bit of an oh shit factor if you're Colorado Avalanche forward. let's even say or anyone on that team because as Sarah said, is he going all Bennington on us, right? And if that's the case, our work's going to be cut out for us. But wow, 51 saves. He was incredible. So we'll see if that's a waste of eight days or like Jesse said, it goes six games. Two game ones tonight.

We're going to break down, like I mentioned, the Rangers and the Carolina Hurricanes in the second segment of the show. But we got to start with the Battle of Alberta. first time since 1991, a series with four 100-point scorers with McDavid, Dry Saddle, Gudro, and Kachuk. I know you guys are south of the border. Is it as big as it is up here because in Canada, people are going nuts for this series right now? Jesse?

I hope. No, there we go. No one gives a shit. You can be honest. I mean, I think a lot of things with Canadian hockey fans and Canadian hockey media also is, one, it's going to be a salty series. Two, you got a lot of firepower. And three, a Canadian team is guaranteed in the final four, which is a big deal for the country

that hasn't won the Stanley Cup since 93. I remember a few years ago when there was like this horrible L.A. Kings game on when the Battle of Alberta was on as well in America. And now with the ESPN and TNT broadcasting rights, I hope that some young potential hockey fan has their TV on. and they are going to be able to watch the Battle of Alberta tonight and become very passionate. I think it's not as big of a deal, of course, down here, but it has the potential. Right. I definitely don't think it's as big of a deal. But for me, it's a huge deal.

Like, I'm pumped for it. I don't know if the greater Las Vegas area is as excited as I am. But I think that it's definitely going to do better than if it was L.A. versus Calgary. Like, I think the excitement in the U.S. is still bigger because it's the battle for Alberta. I'm so pumped for it. I'm kind of, I guess I'm a little more into it than most, like, people down here because I cover the Pacific Division and I watch these teams all year long. So I'm pretty into it. I mean, the fact that it's like you said, it's not just the battle for Alberta.

It's like, this is going to be exciting hockey. McDavid, drys idle, good drool, like it, Cachuck. This is going to be fun hockey. They absolutely hate each other. I feel like the players, even if there's, like, there might be players on the ice where there's no animosity between them personally, but it's going to come. Like, like, it's almost, it almost feels like you have to hate that team. And it's just like, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like it's going to, these teams are going to hate each other by the end of tonight.

And then we still have hopefully six more games of it. That's what I'm looking forward to. Look, the firepower is going to be great. I think the goaltending, at least on Calgary side with Mark's drum is going to be great. the little matchups between like a Matthew Kuchuk and Zach Cassian is going to be just so much fun to watch. And I've talked to a lot of the old Oilers and Flames from the 80s when this rivalry was at its height. I remember Grant Fier telling me, Edmonton fans used to tell us the same thing. You can lose their tie every game of the season except when we take on the flames.

You have to beat the flames. They just, their fans hate each other. It almost takes on like a soccer feel. You know how soccer fans overseas, like they don't like each other. Automat, if you're wearing somebody else's jersey, they hate you. That's what it kind of feels like with this series. It spills over it. I can't wait for it.

I think Mike Smith's one of the X factors here because he's, we know what we're going to get from Jacob Markson. We just never know what we're going to get from Mike Smith. I feel like the, we're all talking about McDavid and Drys Idol and Chuck and Godrow. And I think two weeks from now, week and a half from now, the star of this series is going be Milan Luchich. Like he's going to be the guy that everyone's talking about. He knows what to do. Right. Like he is like he was born for this moment. And he's playing good hockey. He's playing good hockey lately too. Like he's not like for a while there he was this albatross of a contract that was

like disaster. Teams are trying to get rid of him. And now like every time I watch the flames, I'm impressed with Milan Luchich. Not just his the crap he does outside of hockey, but the like he's playing good hockey. And when he's playing well and feeling well, he's more confident to to, to, to start that stuff? And like, I just feel like, I feel like he's going to be the star of this series. He or Brady Kachakshak, who's been in the stands giving interviews and being electric. He stuck a Calgary fan, a little kid, just put him on his shoulders and just celebrated a goal. Like, I love that stuff. Real quick, before we move on from this series, I know the NHL's been pushing the brackets hard. It's never going to catch on the way on March Madness will.

But Wayne Gretzky in his first year as an analyst filled out a bracket. I don't know if you saw Gretzky's bracket 8-0 in the first round. And who does he pick in the Battle of Alberta? Who does Wayne Gretzky, the most famous Edmonton Oiler and the history of Edmonton Oilers and hockey and everything else pick? He picks the Calgary Flames to beat the Edmonton Oilers. And on their Instagram account, they're like, ouch, Wayne, thanks a lot. I mean, he's an analyst now.

He's not an oiler. He's not a fan. So I really don't have any problems with it. We'll get to the other series in a bit. A couple things I want to get your opinions on. I mentioned Jesse had a busy. busy week in Vegas. He was supposed to be just chilling out, doing nothing, maybe a little blackjack, but instead he's covering a coach getting fired. Walk us through your week, Jesse. Yeah, it was,

it's strange because I don't think, I wouldn't call it a surprise, because I think a lot of people were wondering when the Golden Knights missed the playoffs if, if DeBoer would be back. But I think the fact that it took, it was drawn out so long after the season, made everyone kind of think Pete DeBore did his exit interview, he did his media avail. Like, we all kind of thought like, okay, maybe they're deciding to bring him back for more year. And not only that, but the fact that every word out of every person in the organization's mouth at the end of the season was injuries. We lost because we were injured. We missed the playoffs because we were injured. This is all injuries. And then to turn around and say, well, I know Pete had no control over the injuries. In fact, he had to piece together and half

a HL lineup every night, but you're fired. So it is kind of a surprise after hearing the way they all explained this season. And I think it shows that maybe there is more concern in Vegas. They aren't, Kelly McCriman and George McPhee aren't sitting up there saying, you know what? If we're just healthy, we'll win the Stanley Cup because if that was the case, you keep Pete DeBore. The fact that they decided to part ways with him. And Kelly, it was kind of odd. I mean, McCriman said that DeBore did a great job. He said it was a success on the day that he was announcing his firing. But what I think that aside from that just not making any sense, I think what that does is it shows that the expectations for whoever the Golden Knights do end up hiring are unbelievably high. I cannot think.

I honestly cannot think of another situation in hockey where a coach has a more ridiculous set of expectations. I mean, Gerard Gallant comes in, leads the expansion team to the Stanley Cup final, goes to the playoffs the following year to prove that it wasn't a fluke. gets fired. They hire Pete DeBoer, who now, like, good luck. There's nowhere to go, but down from here. Pete DeBore leads them to two straight conference finals falls just short. And then he has an injury plagued season and gets fired. So it's like, Kelly McCrimmon literally said the term, we've had five seasons here and we've had great coaching in all five seasons. And they fired both those coaches. The GM is sitting there saying we had great coaching for five years. We fired them both. Good luck to whoever gets that job next. Your tweet just made,

me actually laugh out loud when you were quoting Kelly McCriman from the press conference. And he said, Kelly McCriman was asked if he regrets firing Gerard Gallant. And he replied, I don't see how you can consider Pete DeBore's tenure with the Golden Knights as anything but a success. Dot, dot, dot, then you put, other than the fact that you just fired him, of course. I mean, it's so true. How do you say that? I said what during so much of everything that went on with this coaching fire?

I just, even though we kind of called it last week. I know Sarah wasn't here, but we were kind of like, well, I think Pete DeBore's on the way out. In fact, we were talking about him as a candidate for the Islander's job. It's still just great coaching, five years, two firings. I don't get this team. It must be fun covering. Like, I don't think the coaching has ever been the problem. So I don't know how many more coaches you can go through at this rate in the NHL.

I do think that, like, my opinion of the whole thing is, I think Pete DeBore's a very good hockey coach. I think Pete has great systems. I think his systems work. I don't think his system was a good match with this roster. I think, like, Pete DeBore can be a good coach, and this can be a good group of players, and those can both be true, and they're not right for each other. Like, I just think Pete, his system is more about scoring from the point, about getting the puck back to the point, shooting it, getting screens, getting deflections. He did that so well in San Jose, and he had the guys to do that in San Jose with Pavelsky and Couture and those guys and Burns on the point.

And I just don't think that the Golden Knights would dominate possession every night and not score any goals. And I think it's because their players maybe weren't a perfect fit for Pete. So I do think that Pete can be a good coach, but maybe isn't the one to win a cup with this team. The crazy thing is the number one name that everyone's saying as soon as they fire Pete is Barry Trots. And I think Barry Trots runs like a similar system.

I think, I think Barry Trots is a great coach. might be the best coach in hockey, but he also may be just as bad of a fit for the Golden Knights as Pete was. I don't know. It's hard to argue with Barry Trotz's success. He's done it with under talented teams and got bigger performances out of them than they should. Maybe with some of those Islanders teams. He's also led a ridiculously talented team in Washington to a cup. So he's done it in different ways. Maybe he is the guy, but I don't know. My gut tells me like, man, I feel like you just fired a great coach who didn't fit the team to hire another great coach who. doesn't fit the team if it's if it's trots speaking of trots i mean you mentioned

Vegas obviously that was the name brought up every time a name gets brought up a team gets brought up i just jot it down and on my list right now i've got winnipeg Vegas philly and i'm hearing even Nashville um for trots for trots yeah return yes i did yeah yeah so i don't know what's the best fit i think winnipeg to me is just it feels like more of a Barry Trott situation. What do you guys think, Sarah? I agree. And I think as funny as it is to me, they got to stop having like the dad being the coach of Adam Lauri. Like I just think that's so weird. I can't, I don't think they can call, take themselves seriously and do that for another season. So they need somebody else. All right. So we had one press conference about the team talking about

how we're just going to keep making changes even though everything went well to the Leafs press conference after their first round exit yet again, seven games to the two-time defending Stanley Cup champions. And I can tell you right now, guys, I feel like everyone, be it the media, the fans, everyone is divided into two very distinct groups when it comes to this team. One group is saying, look, they faced the two-time defending champs. They played really, really good hockey. They had a great opportunity to win.

Players took it to another level. and they just faced a better team that ended up squeaking out the win. And the other group is saying, fuck that, they lost. Changes need to be made. The press conference, I'll sum it up in a couple sentences. Basically, we're not making any changes. Everyone's coming back. And it caused a bit of a shitstorm, at least in this area.

What side are you guys on? Do you think changes need to be made with this team or were they right on the cusp and kind of the victim of, let's call it a system we all don't like in the playoffs where you've got to face Tampa Bay in the first round. Jesse, we'll start with you on this one. I think changes need to be made, but I think when most people think of changes, they think of like, okay, break the core roster down. Like there need to be major changes with play.

That's not what I think. I think hockey, a lot of sports are a best player sport, like basketball is the best example. The team with the best player on the court wins in basketball. To me, in hockey, the team with the best worst player wins in hockey. And to me, Tampa's got all. all these great players in their top six. And the bottom of their lineup is just not good enough. So when I say, I think Toronto needs to make changes in order to win, if you just run

this back, I don't think they're going to win at all. I mean, they might win a series, but I don't think they're going to win at all until they get a better bottom six. We saw it in Tampa. Their stars were amazing. And they get all this credit for like staying the course, but they didn't stay the course. They realized this team is too top heavy. We need good players in our bottom six role players.

And when they got those types of players, they won two. family cups in a row. I think Tampa, I mean, sorry, I think Toronto needs changes, but not to the guys that most people think of when you say that. That is very well said. I have no notes. I just think, also, they can't go to a game seven. Like, they really have to win it in six because they know anything. I was talking to Ian. Well, not I mean, the rest of the media, we're talking to Ian Cole before game six with Bruins-canes. And he was just like, I don't want to go to a game seven. This is an absolute must win just because anything can happen in a game seven. And like it's not always, it's like a one and done situation where not always the best team wins. And they thought they were

the best team. So they have to win it. Of course, they didn't, but they still ended up winning in game seven. But they can't leave it up to chance. Like they need to dominate. I don't know what, this is above my pay grade to know what changes the Toronto Maple Leafs need to make, but maybe a coaching thing. Yeah. I mean, I'm of the camp of I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't. I would keep everybody there. I just think this team showed me something in these seven games.

And I understand people don't like hearing losses. But this is something I thought of, and then I heard Kyle Dubas say it in the press conference as well. This team is carrying the burden of a couple of bad streaks. You know, I keep hearing they haven't won a playoff series in 18 years. Well, most of these guys were like five when that happened. Okay? Like, let's stop putting that on this team.

This team hasn't won a Stanley Cups and 67. A lot of these guys' parents weren't born in 67. Like we're putting this burden on this team. Any other team has a franchise record season. Best season in Leafs franchise history. And they've been around for a while. And they take the two-time defending champs with the best goalie on planet Earth to game seven and easily could have won that overtime in game six. And we're talking about blowing this thing up. It makes no sense to me. This isn't like the previous years. Like, you look at, if this, if the Montreal loss had happened this year, then I'm, I'm on board.

You know, they're not losing to an inferior team or blowing a lead. They should win. This is, we can't fault this team. They took it to another level. I thought Mitch and Austin were great. Amazing. And that is the most important thing. Like, your best player is pacing the team.

That being said, everything they said in that press conference could be bullshit, right? I mean, if you go out and say, we're going to make a whole bunch of changes, is that not like when a player demands? a trade and suddenly the value you're going to get back is so much less. They could be just saying this and then be working the phones for the whole summer to try to improve this team. Anyways, that's my thought on the Leafs. We're going to get everyone's thoughts, including Arthur Staples, on the Rangers and Hurricane

Series. Game one goes tonight. We'll talk to him after the break. Well, no team in NHL history had to overcome deficits in each of their final three games to erase a three-one series deficit. No one's ever done it. the Rangers have done it and now they run smack into the Carolina Hurricanes and to help us break us that down from the athletic and of course the host of the Garden Faithful podcast.

Arthur Staple. How are you, Art? I'm good. How you doing? We're doing great. Thanks so much for doing this. How would you describe that rally? I guess improbable would be the way I put it.

It was kind of a, it was such a strange series where everybody, including myself, thought at the beginning while the penguins, they were only down to their number two goalie when that series started. And then they were down to number three by the time they won that triple overtime game. But even at that, I thought, okay, the Rangers are going to roll right over them because they've got the top goalie in the league and they've got their high-end guys and yada, yada, and then they completely fell apart in Pittsburgh in games three and four to a level. I hadn't seen all season long.

Shasturkin gets pulled twice. The fans are chanting his name in Pittsburgh. Everything's riding high. They go up two nothing in game five. Crosby gets hurt. They go up 2-0 in game 6. I guess you can blame Evan Rodriguez. I don't know.

And then Louis DeMing gives up one of the worst game-winning goals in a playoff series I've ever seen. And in game 7, they're winning with six minutes left in the third period on the road with Crosby back and Tristan Jari and that. And they still lost. You know, I can understand Penguins fans being frustrated and pointed fingers. But, man, you've got to win a series when you're up by two goals in the two elimination games and then deep into the third.

period in a game seven. The Rangers showed a lot of resilience and that that fortitude is kind of going to be the thing that they're going to lean on going into the series because they did not play well and somehow they won and I still don't really have it all figured out. But here we are. Well, I got to ask you about Igor, Igor, as you said, the chanting of Shisterkin, who I'm just going to say, people give saying probably will win the Vesna trophy. We'll win the Vesna Trophy. I think a series can be described as up and down. I mean, I can't believe he got pulled in back-to-back games, but it does lead you to believe that if he's not on top of his game, how much this New York Rangers team is in trouble. Yeah, and game seven, he was really good, and he still gave up three.

And some of those were not goals that you see him. You've really seen him give up in the regular season. You know, I always like to talk to my friend Steve Valichette, who has this clear-sight analytics company, and they track all different kinds of. of saves for goalies. And they had Igor Shosturkin on clear breakaways in the regular season. He stopped 17 of 18. And he was 0 for 2 when it really mattered most in the Penguin series, including that Rodriguez goal that could have been the series winner where he just didn't come out of his net,

didn't look aggressive, didn't look big, and got beat on kind of an awkward shot. He definitely didn't look like himself. And it's tough on him because he set such a high standard this season. And it's one of the best statistical seasons you've seen from a goalie in 30 years in the NHL. So the Rangers are accustomed to seeing him play at that level. And he was at that level at times in Game 7, but it still was a coin flip game for them. So I think they're going to need to see him play at an even higher level because we all know what Carolina does in the offensive zone, aggressiveness.

A lot of pucks funneled down towards the net, a lot of bodies in front. The penguins were able to do the same thing. And the penguins are nowhere near as good as the carricanes are in the offensive zone. So the Rangers, from the goal on out, have a lot of work to do this series to put this last series and how they played behind them. Arthur, I'd like to ask you about Gerard Gallant. Obviously, I got to know him pretty well here in Vegas. You mentioned the fortitude, the heart this team showed to come back not only from the 3-1 deficit in the series, but deficits within each of those games. How much do you think Galant played in that?

And how do you think he's handling this playoff run first one in New York? You know, he doesn't really betray a whole lot of, you know, outside of the usual. I've never encountered a guy, coach, your player, otherwise who pretty much starts every answer with, yeah, no. And it cracks me up every time because I'm like, all right, I have no idea where this answer is going. But he's definitely not giving much away. I think that part of it, the kind of the mental side of it, the motivational side of it is really where he excels. And I think what he's done with this Ranger team has kind of let them alone a little bit. You know, it's a very young team.

They don't have a captain, but I think he's really relied on some of their leaders and even some of their younger guys like Adam Fox or Keandre Miller to just let him grow. And, you know, Fox had a bit of an up and down series, but he was, you know, he's a pretty, he's a pretty even keeled guy. And Keandre Miller, to me, has been the guy who's grown the most throughout the season and on into the playoffs where he, he saw the most of Sidney Crosby of anybody in that series. And obviously Crosby had a really good series. but Miller had a pretty good series too.

It was impressive to see that. And then you've got their third line, which is all guys under 22 and Philippeitel and Alexei Lafranier and Capocco. And those guys all had their struggles this season. And Gallant preached a lot of patience with us. I'm sure he preached it within the room, let those guys find their own level.

And they really have in the playoffs. So I think the way he's managed his team, where his talks are usually one-on-one. He's not a big raw-rah group. chat kind of guy in the room doesn't change up a whole lot in the playoffs. And I think, you know, when you kind of left to your own devices as a team, especially one that doesn't have a clear leader, it's got to be everybody. And I think that message is really resonated. And it really has been, you know, a couple of their big guys stepped to the four in those last three games.

But really, there were a lot of little things and guys that maybe think wouldn't matter too much who came in and did such a good job and really led by example in their more minor roles. And I think that's the kind of thing he's been accentuating all season long. I'm sure you've talked about this or have been asked about this a few times already. But Chris Kreider throwing that iPad when Mika's a bit was on the bench was just hilarious. But I think it speaks to a little bit of a deeper kind of leadership that you need on a team. Not only is the guy your 50 goal score, but is this team at a point where some people are trying to say you're overthinking this? And really, maybe this is a question just in hockey in general.

I mean, every time we see the bench, they're looking at iPads. They're analyzing everything that just happened. Is there a level of overthinking, especially when it comes to the playoffs? I think there's certain guys that want to see what they did wrong. They're not necessarily going to look at the iPad after they have a great player, a great goal. And I think that's a bandage ad. It was a five on three. He came out of the penalty box, shorthanded breakaway hit the post.

I think he was trying to look and see where the puck went. And I think Kreider's message to him was like, you should have a, you should have a goal there. It would have been a hat trick. forget it. Trust yourself. And I think part of the chemistry and the atmosphere that Galan has fostered is there's a lot of good connections like that in this room. There's Zabanajad and Kreider have been linemates for a long time and our good friends. I think they trust each other for honest assessments of each other's games and trust each other to build each other up. You've got our Temi Panarin and Ryan Strom have been together a long time and also that same

kind of connection. Ryan Lindgren and Adam Fox's been playing together since they were 16 years old back at the U.S. Junior U.S. national program. They're a D pair. So I think you have some of those connections throughout the team where somebody's got a buddy, basically, a guy who's going to not bullshit them and not, you know, just speak the truth to them. And it doesn't have to come from the coach. And I think that's really helped them, you know, that, like I said, you build up that resilience as a team. They came back to win games 27 times in the regular season. So I think they understood that they're never out of a game. And then you get into the playoff series, which is a lot of guys' first real experience with that.

And I think they lean on that and they lean on each other. And they're not sort of waiting for a coach to grab them by the shoulders and say, get out there and do something. And that, you know, that kind of that viral moment was pretty funny in the middle of a game. And I don't think Chris Kreider was going for viral fame there. I think he's, you know, he's a pretty straight shooter and a very genuine guy. And he was kind of like, just go play. And that's the message from Galant.

And if it's the message from their leadership, they went and did it. It was a little bit of a windy path, but they did end up doing the right thing. I'll ask about our series, obviously, coming up tonight. How do you think the resiliency bodes for this series? You know what I mean? Like, on one hand, it's so impressive that they can come back from all these things, but they do tend to dig themselves into holes sometimes. Yeah, I don't think you want to keep testing it, especially early in a series,

just because, you know, they're going to come into a very hostile environment. Pittsburgh was a hostile environment, but it's not going to compare to what it's going to be like tonight. in Carolina. I think the guys know that, that this place is going to get a lot louder than most buildings they've been in. And the team really feeds off it, obviously, with the way they played in the first round. So they have to be ready for it. And I think Pittsburgh was a good eye-opener, especially for a guy like Shus Durkin, who has seemed pretty unflappable all year long, but looked pretty rattled in those two games. So maybe he's in a little bit better place mentally coming in here, knowing that they're going to be chanting his name and all that stuff. And he's also going to be

facing probably a pretty incredible onslaught from the drop of the puck in game one. So I think they know they have to be ready and they know they don't want to get behind because Pittsburgh is a good team, but they're not the hurricanes. I know that there wasn't a huge gap between these top three teams in the metro, but I think Pittsburgh with their depth as compromised as it was at times in that series and their forward depth, which really gave them a lot against the Rangers, but the Rangers seeded a lot to them. And I think you're seeing a Carolina team that has 11, maybe all 12 forwards who can play the same way and don't really have a superstar guy that they lean on.

And maybe they're superstars, their D, especially when they're in the offensive zone. And there's certainly the one thing maybe the Rangers have is an incredible familiarity with guys like Tony DiAngelo and Esper Foss, is, you know, the longtime Ranger teammates. So I think in that respect, maybe they understand what the challenge is here and coupled with their, mostly negative experience on the road in the first round that they can understand that like, yeah, we can't, we can't keep falling behind. I mean, it's a good quality to have, but you can't keep testing it because you're going to run out of gas at some point. I want to throw this out to everybody to get your opinion.

I know, Sarah, you've been politely asked by the Carolina hurricane to stop asking about Freddie Anderson until Freddie Anderson's practicing with the team. But in your piece that you guys broke this series down along with Arthur, the question was raised. If and when he's ready, is it a no-brainer that you put him? in. It's hardly as if this team has been clinging to dear life with Antio Ranta on that let's go around the horn, whether it's game two, game three, whatever. Is it a no-brainer? Do you put Freddie Anderson in as soon as he is healthy? And Arthur will start with you. I don't think so.

I don't think it's a no-brainer at all. I mean, you know, the experience that I have just now is watching Tristan Jari come in off a broken foot after a month out. And he, you know, he was okay, gave up four. You know, that that's a losing proposition most times, and especially in a game seven. So I think it, you can sort of hedge it by saying it depends. If Ranta's, you know, been bad, if they're in a desperate, if Carolina is it kind of desperate straits. But I think the advantage that Carolina has is they have a guy in Peter Kachetkov, who's jumped in at the end of the regular season, there's some kind of, you know, tense situations and been okay. And I think he's kind of, you know, he's just living the dream.

Like, doesn't have to talk to anybody. He doesn't know any English. They're leaving him alone. Like, why not give it a shot with him? I feel like Anderson's been out for so long that to just throw him back in there unless it's absolute desperation feels like the wrong move because goalies just really have to be so ready. And I just feel like he's not one of those guys who can go in cold. Yeah.

Freddie said that himself, too, that he wants to make sure he's absolutely not just healed, but acclimated to practice environments and stuff before he jumps in. So I don't think it's a no-brainer at all. And these guys love Ranta. If you've talked to Ranta before, it's easy to see why. He's a very charming guy and somebody you want to play for. And over the summer, he lost his dad and his grandfather in the span of like a week or two. And it has been kind of a rallying point for this team to play for him and to want to have a good day for him.

So it's kind of one of those things in the playoffs that, you know, you hold on to the narratives and things. So I think it's, it might be his net to lose. Man, I, so I agree with both that it's not a no-brainer. I think I'm going to go the other way, though. I don't know if this is just to play devil's advocate. I like this podcast more interesting. Here are my thoughts. I think if I agree with Arthur that if it's like I think if it's dire straits, I think you can't put Freddie in. I don't think you, if this team falls down to nothing, you can't put Freddie into that. It's just going to be a disaster. I think if I was Carolina and I won the first two games and I'm up two nothing in

this series, I'm putting Freddie Anderson in. And the reason is, I don't think that's the best way to win this series. I don't think that's the best way to win this series, but I think if the hurricanes are going to win the Stanley Cup, I think Freddie Anderson's the best goalie on this team. And I think if they're going to win not only this series, but if they're going to beat the winner of Florida, Tampa Bay, and then they're going to beat Calgary, Colorado, whoever it is in the final, they're going to need elite goaltending. And I think Annie Ron has been good. but I think Freddie Anderson's better. I think he's a better goalie. And I think if you get a situation where, hey, if he comes in and he's not great right away, it's not the end of the world. If we're up

to nothing. And I know it's dangerous to part of that game. Just to let people know why we're laughing here. Bad vibes, Jesse. Bad vibes. I don't believe in vibes that much, but every person in hockey believes in them in the playoffs. And I feel like you'd be, you'd be taken everybody's, you know, superstition and their good feelings and just crumpling them up and throwing them away. I couldn't possibly imagine Rod Brindamore doing that. But, hey, it's good to disagree. I like it. Healthy.

Right. I totally agree with you. And I think you're playing with fire. But I also think sometimes you've got to play with fire to win the Stanley Cup. And I think the hurricane's best chance at win the Stanley Cup is with Freddie Anderson and that. You make a great point about the long game. And I'll be really, really interested to see what they do when Freddie's back because

of that. Like I think you can win this round without him. Are you winning against the avalanche if we're going in the Stanley Cup? Like if we're talking about that, I don't think so. Interesting to see. And we'll come back in a few games from now when Freddie Anderson's in Ned and you can say, I told you so. Or if it's the other way around, Arthur could come on and go, see, I told you,

that's why I shook my head and said that is absolutely insane. Game one goes tonight. Arthur, thanks so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate it. Arthur, staple, the host of the Garden Faithful podcast. and, of course, a writer here at The Athletic.

After the break, we'll get to rapid fire topics, so don't go anywhere. All right, guys, rapid fire time. Some of the things we didn't get to get to in the first segment. Now that we know he's okay, we can kind of bring this up and talk about it. Mitch Marner, tell me this isn't one of the weirdest stories you guys ever heard. Carjacked this week. You guys ended up taking his SUV. Like I said, he's okay, but could you have a worse week?

And if you're Mitch and Marner, like, that is just, you lose game seven and then, hey, we're taking your car too. Crazy. Craziness. They just walked up to him. Like, he was stopped, like, in the street, right? And they just walked up to him with a gun and say, get out of your car. And I guess right decision by Mitch to say, here you go. Here you go.

Here are the keys. I can adjust the seats for you if you need. Take the car. Yeah. That was smart. The saddest thing, he's just going to the movie theater. Like, he's not even doing anything. This man is just trying to go to.

the movies. Like after a tough game seven loss. I just, I feel for him a lot and he's taken so much like unfair criticism and then he gets carjacked. Like I just can't. I feel so bad for him. And I feel like we're so dissenticized to things, but it's like a traumatizing event to be held at gunpoint and car jacked. Like I hope he's getting the help he needs and has a peaceful, safe time with his family this offseason. That's what I said. I was. I was in a meeting for my other job at TVC sports. And we were kind of saying, if his car was stolen, okay, that's whatever. But this is a traumatic event.

Like this guy's life was in danger for his car. So yeah, that had to have been tough for him to go through that. But good to hear he's okay. And obviously they're still investigating. Rapid Fire topic number two, Sydney Crosby says he wants to play three more years for the Pittsburgh Penguins. He has three seasons left on that 12-year deal, $104.4 million. in the past a 34-year-old saying, I want to play three more years.

You're thinking, oh, okay. I mean, other than concussions, Cindy Crosby's given us no reason to think he can't play in an elite level for three more years, has he? Sarah? Absolutely not. And he was great before he got hurt. It was so unfortunate that he got hurt

and got a concussion. But in this series, but he was playing some of his best postseason hockey, in my opinion, and I'd love to see him do that for three more years. Absolute stud. I don't think there's a 34-year-old on earth. I'd rather give more money to than Sidney Crosby. Like he's just like, I trust that guy. He's like, no concern whatsoever. Like you said, the concussions is, and like that's something nobody can control and you never know what's going to happen. But like aside from that, complete trust in Crosby to, to live up to whatever money you need to. The rest of the players on that team, I don't know, man. It seems like, it seems like, it feels like we're coming to the end of an era.

It's unfortunate, but Crosby's consistency has worked against him just perception-wise, in my opinion. We just expect this from Cindy Crosby that we're not impressed that he is still an elite hockey player. If they move on in that series, I know what's early, but we're already going to be talking about him possibly winning another contractual. He's just, he was that good in that series. A couple pieces of coaching news, the Vancouver Canucks officially announcing that Bruce Boudreau returning for the 2022-2020 season, Rise, Jesse? No, I was surprised it took this long. The whole time we were hearing, like, will he leave at the end of the year? And I'm sitting here, like, wait a minute, is this a, is this real? Like, he's, they're doing nothing but winning. Their points percentage was like, they would have made

the playoffs for sure if he was their coach the whole year. I cannot imagine that team not keeping him. So I was surprised he took so long. He had some family issues, too. He had some family issues he wanted to clear up before he wanted to commit to them. But, um, yeah, I mean, this just seems like a hand-and-glove fit, right, Sarah? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, excited to see where he takes that team in the next few years. I was a little surprised at this one, Lane Lambert, excuse me, promoted to head coach of the Islanders.

I'm not surprised because I don't think he's qualified, but you fired a coach, and then you hired the guy who was his right-hand man for 11 years and three different teams. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sarah. I will never claim to understand what's going on in Lou Linnarillo's mind. I'm just happy it wasn't Mike Babcock.

Jesse. I think like maybe we don't know what the conversations were like. Like maybe the conversation between Lou was like there were a lot of new ideas. Maybe he's been Barry Trots's right hand man, but he has like after after watching Barry all these years, like he has new ideas. And he thinks like, hey, I think these things Barry does well. But I think there's a key change we can make to like, I don't know. We don't know what the conversations were like. I do know that he was getting interest from other teams.

Iserman in Detroit was looking at him. If I was a team and Steve Iserman wanted, had any interest in any player or personnel on my team, I would make sure I do not let that person go. Good point. Ray Whitney, looking to interview for the San Jose Sharks GM job. Sarah, I know you tweeted about this. What are your thoughts? I love the guy. I love that move too. He's been, he offered me really good insights a few weeks ago about this current Kane's team. And it's like, okay, this guy's still paying a ton of attention to what's going on around the league. I didn't really expect to hear that name, but I, who knows hockey better than the wizard? I just think it's a great opportunity. I'd love to see it. I am biased. I really like him as a person, but all the best

to him. Yeah, looks like it's going to be fun. Yeah. And finally, Bill Garan says that he would like to keep both Mark Andre Fleury and Cam Talbot. They're right up against the cap as well. Jesse, you think it happens? No. I think it would work. I think there's, there's probably not a elite goalie in league history that's more comfortable with having a stud next to him on the bench. Like he did it with Matt Murray in Pittsburgh. They won cups. He did it with Robin Lennar in Vegas. They won the Jennings Trophy, allowed the fewest goals.

Like, Flurry's comfortable in that situation. The fact that they bought out all those players and have all that hurting them against the cap, like it's already hard to have a bunch of goalie money against the cap. I saw in Vegas what it does to the rest of your roster. I think that on top of all those buyouts that are, already handicapping you against the cap. I think it's just too much. Yeah, I agree.

I think Cam's gone, but I would like to keep both of them, too, if it was my team. Guys, wraps up another show. I know you both. It seems pretty obvious what you're going to be talking about, but anything specific you want to plug that you're working on this week. Sarah, we'll start with you. What am I doing? Oh, there is a story I'm working on about my childhood friend,

who happens to play for the New York Rangers. So I'm kind of calling up the rest of our childhood friends and seeing what they're up to because he played for my public high school's team. And now he plays for the New York Rangers. And I'm like, these teammates he used to have are now like accountants and stuff. Like you guys get together and watch this guy used to be teammates with play. And they're like, yeah, absolutely. So it'll be fun. Jesse, what he got on top?

That sounds so awesome. Obviously coaching search stuff. First time I've really covered one in Vegas. I mean, there was the early one when they hired Gerard Glant, but that was a little different. They obviously fired Galant and hired people born in the same press conference. So this is really the first time I've gotten to cover one of these. It's a lot of fun. Doing a mailbag also this week should be interesting.

With Golden Knights fans, they are about as riled up as they've ever been. So I'm excited for the mailbag this week. Should be fun. Looking forward to reading both of those pieces, and we'll talk to you guys next week. I want to let everyone else know what we've got on tap. If you want to keep listening to Other podcasts on The Athletic, of course, Kevin Kurz, has the latest on the New York Islanders offseason. He's going to join the Athletic Hockey Show with Craig Custin's and Sean Gentilly this week. Have to ask you a favor.

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for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns on Thursday, Ian Mendez, and down goes round holding down the fort for Jesse and Sarah. I'm Rob. We'll talk to you next week.