The Athletic Hockey Show - Tampa Bay Lightning alive after ECF Game 3 win, Evander Kane suspended 1 game for boarding Nazem Kadri, the Nathan MacKinnon-Connor McDavid matchup, Patrice Bergeron wins the Selke, Top Gun callsign rankings, and more

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

On today’s very wholesome episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Hailey makes her long-awaited return to the podcast and is joined by guest cohosts Julian McKenzie and Dom Luszczyszyn to discuss the Tampa Bay Lightning taking Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Final from the New York Rangers, where the series goes from here, how the Rangers have grown over the course of the playoffs, and through their rebuild, and more.Then, the group talks about the Western Conference Final between the Colorado Avalanche and Edmonton Oilers and discuss how the series has gone so far, the Nathan MacKinnon-Connor McDavid matchup, Evander Kane being suspended a game for boarding Nazem Kadri, and more.Plus, thoughts on the ideal Stanley Cup Final matchup, Patrice Bergeron winning the Selke Trophy once again, Top Gun callsign power rankings, and an important Would You Rather.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic hockey show on this Monday. I'm Julian McKenzie filling in for Ian Mendez and welcoming back to the Monday show, Haley Salvean, back after a long journey away covering the Calgary Flames. We have a special guest with us. We'll get to them in a second, but seriously, like, Haley, it's been like way too long since you've been on this show. I know, it's been weeks and I feel like every time there was a practice or a morning skate or a travel day, it was on a Monday. So I kind of just said, you know what, I'll see you guys later. I'll be back eventually.

We missed you, though. Oh, that's nice. I'm sure Ian didn't, but that's all right. And joining us for Monday's edition, this Monday edition, our resident advanced stats man, Domla Schizen, is also checking in. Yeah. Yikes. Wait, what?

Did I butcher the pronunciation? No. No. You were so confident, too. Oh, that was one of the worst I've heard in so long. Come on. That was not that bad. It was like a two out of ten.

No. It wasn't good. This is awful. I'm not even going to retake that. Just going to live with the embarrassment for the rest of the time. Oh, yeah, you can't. Let's go for a second try here. Let's go for a second try here.

Oh, no. Give him like a little, like tell him what he did wrong. No. Yeah, at the very least. No, just roll it. Because I said Le Schizzen and the end at the end, that's not good. There's far fewer like shizz-z-z. Yeah.

Shish-s-S-S-S-S. There's less of that. Lysn. Lus Chishin. Luce Chishin. Loose? What is loose? Hell, you.

I guess that makes sense. Anyway, Dom is here with us here on the Athletic. Dom at the athletic. I'm so sorry. that I completely mangled your name. You are my friend and I should not do that. You actually should be very sorry because a little behind the scenes. Before the show, I told Julian he looked really nice today.

And this is how he repaid me by completely butchered my name. And I genuinely appreciated it. You should have seen a smile. He was beaming. Absolutely the happy. It was a genuine compliment from Dom. I really appreciated it. So this is genuinely makes me sad.

It really did. So when you're in town for the draft, I will certainly make it up to you. and just call you Dom forever and never meagle your last name ever again. That's probably the best course of action. It's probably the best idea. Whenever I'm writing stuff. No, we're not getting to anything yet. Fine.

I'm back, so it's time to like go back off the rails and stuff. Yes. Has anyone noticed how quickly Ian just like puts out my derailing of conversations? Very quickly. Anyways. I never noticed. Nope. Whenever I'm writing something and I have to.

Wow. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yo, I at least listen to the show. John was just like, I don't care. I don't listen to the show. I only listens when he's on the show. I don't even listen when I'm on the show. I lived it.

I don't need to live it again. Why do you hate podcasting so much? I don't know. I don't, I'd rather listen to Harry's house for the, three of time and listen to a podcast. That album's really sad. I'm very late on that album. It's also really good.

It's got a good vibe. Yeah, we love it. Anyways, whenever I write stories and I have to say, like, according to, like, the athletics, Dom Lus Chishin, I'll just be like, Dom in capital letters and then remind myself to, like, go back and add your last name. And Julian, who edits my stuff sometimes probably catches that or catches the thing that I do where I'm like, wait, I'm not totally sure what this is.

So I'll just put like X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X in your story. As someone who's also edited your stories, I know those things all too well. You don't edit my stories. I've read them. Oh, yeah, that was my, Dom was very helpful, my first year on the Flames Beat, when I didn't know anything about numbers. And now she's an expert. him things. Aw.

Look at all three of us. Just helpful people in this weird athletic cycle, you know, editing each other's work. Actually, I've edited both of your work, actually, on different occasions, actually. You guys are both pleasures to read and consume your content. This is so nice. This is a nice chat. It's really nice. This is the wholesome edition of the athletic hockey show ever done.

And this started with me completely getting Dom's name wrong, in which I will, a apologize again and again and again. It's because I forgave you immediately and that sort of energy just brought us all together. Oh, man. Okay. I guess he is. He actually is an okay person. I guess we should actually talk about hockey on this podcast.

We could continue to be wholesome throughout. We should probably start with the Lightning Rangers game considering how game three went. Tampa kind of served used that game as a way to remind everyone that. when you're the champ, the only way you can take out the champ is if you knock out the champ. But the Rangers still have that 2-1 series lead. But with the Lightning winning game three, how wide open is that opportunity for them to actually come back and win this damn series over the Rangers? Yeah, it is, it was looking pretty bleak for a little bit there. But the Lightning responded very quickly to the Rangers going up to nothing.

And then from that point on, it was basically all them for the rest of the game, they completely took over. They looked like a team that knew what was at stake and what needed to be done to get the series back in their hands. And from that, before that, it looked like the Rangers sort of had their number. They had an answer to what the lightning were doing. And from that first goal, it seemed like, okay, we're the defending champs. We know how to get things done. We may be missing Braden Point, but we still have a really good deal. team. We have arguably the best goal in the world. We have Nikita Kutrov who can break a game open

by himself, which he did yesterday. And they look well set up to come back in the series and go to their third straight final because it really does feel like the Rangers showed their inexperience a bit yesterday and didn't seal the deal when they could have. Is anyone surprised about Tampa being here, though? No. You can't be surprised by the lightning doing this. Right. And I think it even went back to the first round where I think the Leafs were favored to win on paper. And I kind of said, I think maybe even before the first round on the podcast, like I will bet against the Tampa Bay Lightning to lose a series when they finally lose one. This is a team who has not lost a playoff round since 2019. It's incredibly impressive what they're doing. But so is what the Rangers are doing. I mean, Are they the, we've been, I feel like we've been talking about this all year, like, are the Rangers the real deal? And there's been different issues that have cropped up with them over the course this season. They weren't a great five-on-five team.

Shasturkin had a bit of dip in performance, and then they kind of put it all together. And first round of the playoffs was, I mean, they don't get out of the first round if Casey to Smith plays, I think. But it's just been this really weird, interesting path from the regular season, first round to now for the New York Rangers. I'm curious to see if they can pull this out. I mean, they have a two one series lead. Did you say what the odds were, Dom? I wasn't listening. I did not.

Like, their odds of winning this series, the Rangers. Yeah. Right now, they're at like 61%. So they are favored. But because Tampa is at home for game four, they can tie and retake the, I guess they were favorites going to the series, right? as good as the Rangers have looked, I think it's also prudent to note that their five-on-five issues still very much exist,

and they're sort of living and dying off the same thing they've been living on dying off all season, which was have an elite power play and have Chesterkin playing his ass off. And they've had both those things versus the Lightning, and Lightning at 5-on-5 have 62% of the expected goals, and it hasn't mattered because the Rangers have... had Shastirken play out of his mind and they have a strong enough counterattack and their power play has been unreal for the series. Yeah. Do we think it's, and this might sound really dumb for me, but have you guys remembered a playoffs with so much like back and forth goaltending in the sense that one goaltender will be out of his mind for one round and then be

kind of bad the next and then be really good the next? Like Shisterken wasn't great. in round one. It's good in round two, really good in round three. Basselowski let in like almost five goals a game against the Leafs in the first round and then completely shut the door, swept the Panthers in round two. We notice that? If we're going to keep it to that series with, yeah, then Mike, then you have Mike Smith who like was there going to be the best goal to head into the playoffs. Yeah. And then like literally have games where you'll have outstanding saves and then we'll let in like weird deflections off Darnell Nurse. Or Jacob Marks from having a 943. and then letting in 24 goals.

Yeah. I have games the next. This has been a weird goaltending playoffs. And I don't know if maybe that's just something that happens every year and haven't been paying attention or this is a strange, strange year. I think it's just a bit of goaltending weirdness in general. Markstrom is probably like a 915 to 920 goalie. And if he's at 943 for one series, you like do expect that to come down.

it's unlikely he'll keep that up. Not to 8.57. Yeah, but like if you take the average of the two, like he was close to where he should be at. With Vasilevsky, I think looking at the teams he played helped sort of discern like why he was the way he wasn't. Same with Markstrom. He played the Dallas Stars first and the Oilers. And obviously things are going to be skewed based on the competition. But the Leafs were one of the best offensive teams in the league.

and they are one of the few that can score on Vasilevsky. I think it was a bit more surprising when Florida was shut out, but they just didn't look right against Washington to begin with. So all those things make sense. With Shasturkin, I didn't think he was that bad during the first round. I think the Penguins just had a number of chances every single night. And even though he was allowing a lot of goals and save spendage wasn't as great as usual, he was still saving more goals above expected than.

most goalies. It was just a lot of chances against. You know what's funny? I keep thinking of that first round series a lot and all it takes is like one referee to mess up a goalie interference call and the Rangers win that game one. And they probably win that series in like six. Because I didn't think they were completely out of it even when they found themselves down three one. And Chisirkin, who knows, in an alternate world looks even better in that first round than he did now. But he's been he's been insane all post. But the Rangers, like, as a whole, I'm not ready to like say like, you know, they're legit. Like, I'm asking that question now.

And I know they have that lead. But I'm wondering now if this series with Tampa is like a, could have the potential of being like a transfer of power just because of how big Tampa Bay has been over the last time many years. And while the Rangers are not perfect and Dom, you put it really eloquently with the fact that they still have. have their issues at even strength and they're letting Igor Shisterkin save a lot. But at least on paper, they have a good offense. They have a franchise defenseman. They have a franchise goalie.

They have the pieces at least to be a good team in the Eastern Conference for a really long time. And while Tampa still could be a really good team in the East, like, it could still be like a sign that the era of dominance in the Eastern Conference could start to go. the Rangers way. Like, that's how I'm kind of, like, seeing it. I don't know if I'm off base on that or not. It's just that the Rangers look really good. They're ahead of scheduled. They were only like four years off for when they put out that letter saying that they were going to rebuild the team. And normally teams go through pain. There are teams who have

been in rebuilds well before the Rangers were in a rebuild, and they're still in a rebuild. Like, this is incredible what the Rangers have done as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, and I don't even think we need to argue about whether they're a legit team. Like they made it the conference finals. They beat Pittsburgh and Carolina two very strong teams. Obviously, Frederick Anderson and Tristan Jari weren't available to those two teams, but the Rangers still played Carolina well enough, right? Like they, like a lot of people thought Carolina would blow their doors off and control the series and they just really never did. Rangers were right there with them. And I think a lot of people need to stop

questioning whether this team is legit or not just because they don't win in the way that most contending teams do. They have an elite power play. They have the best goalie in the world, in my opinion. That is enough, especially when you have the shooting talent that they do and some of the elite players

have their lineup like Panarin Zabinajad Crieder now and Adam Fox on the back end. And then you have these kids like Condrey Miller and the entire kid line that are really growing into their own and being better versions of themselves than they were during the radio season. And that's something I think a lot of people don't take into account is that these young players, they will be better and better as the year goes on and they're not the same players they were even a month ago.

And that's hard to sort of factor in before the playoff start. I think it's interesting to look at. There's a couple decent examples in this postseason of, you know, what could happen if you have a successful rebuild, you know, or have tanking teams. Like, I know the Rangers didn't maybe tank in the traditional sense, but you have the Rangers who had that really great rebuild, retool, Edmonton, as an obvious example, even Colorado. but I think it's interesting how all three of them have been so different. And almost, like, I think the Rangers are a difficult example. I know every time this year, this time of year, everyone kind of puts out, like, what can my team that I'm covering learn about the teams that made it to the final four?

And I always find it a little bit difficult to look at the Rangers and say, well, just do that because it's the New York Rangers. and people want to play there. You know, they had the, I mean, they had the luck of the draw. They had, they got Alexei Lafranier. They got Capocaco. Not every team who wants to tear it down to the strips have first round draft picks because they spent a bunch of them. Like the Calgary Flames, some fans want to see them completely blow it up.

What? Because they lost. Yeah, there's, yeah. What? Some people want to see the flames. Some people have said they want to see the flames. claims tear it down the strips and they don't have the draft capital to do that and they have too many good players to do that um but and then you look at the rangers too like you know adam fox

wasn't going to sign in calgary he wasn't going to sign in carolina he was going to sign for the new york rangers panarin wanted to play in new york so it's always difficult to look at it yeah it's always difficult to look at a team like that and be like well just do what they did you know the rangers are the perfect example of a perfect rebuild they did a good job good amateur scouting good drafting etc. And it's amazing that they fast track this way. But like if you're Mendez covering the sentence, you can't exactly be like, look what we learn from covering the New York Rangers. Yeah. Nothing. That's a very good point. There are Canadians fans right now who I'm sure are rooting for the Rangers just because they could look at their organization and be like,

you see what Jeff Gordon did in New York? Jeff Gordon can do that exact same thing in Montreal. That is basically Jeff Gordon's team. If we wait four years, Nick Suzuki, can lead the Canadians to a Stanley Cup championship. And that's not what's going to happen. It's going to take a lot more. And as nice as Montreal is, Montreal is not New York. So, yeah, it's a weird situation. Montreal has the draft capital, and they're starting from a decent place too.

But yeah, I was find this stuff interesting. And then there's teams that take way longer, like Edmonton to break through this point, even Colorado. So I don't know. Do you guys want to transition? over to the Edmonton Ave series since we just were talking about that. Yeah. Oilers down 3-0.

It always kind of felt like whoever got out of the Battle of Alberta was just going to try to hang with the abs. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing. What have you guys liked about this series so far other than the skill? Oh, I wasn't sure if Dom was going to start. Well, I like to see. I was paying attention. He was paying attention. He actually was.

I thought he was going to say something first. That's why I was going to let him go. I was letting you go first. You see the wholesomeness. Everyone's too nice on this podcast. I guess that's fair. I mean, I find, I mean, I always find the speed with the Colorado Avalanche. That's one of their best assets.

And I guess I would have liked to have seen more on both sides of it. But we're seeing a team that can score at will. They did that in the first game. And then the second game, they said, okay, we have to shut. stuff down and they've been able to play well defensively as well. And while I think the Nazim Kodry injury definitely is a point of concern, seeing guys like J.T. Comfer step up, seeing guys like Val Nchuskin, the two-gold game that he had the other night step up. Other guys like Darren Helm in the lineup, they have Arturi Lekinen. This is a team that

throughout the playoffs, they lose a mobile defenseman, their goalie is dealing with injury as well. they are not at 100%, but they are so deep at almost every position that they've been able to, they've been able to withstand any injury that comes their way. I still think even if once they make the final, I don't see them blowing it against Edmonton, they could still play through this Nassim Khadry injury. Obviously, it hurts that, you know, basically their hottest player might not be available to them. And so maybe part way through the Stanley Cup final at this point. but because of how front-loaded they are, because of how they are on the back end and their goal-tending,

like, I don't expect them to have that much of a drop-off. I don't think Nassam Khadry being hurt is going to completely hurt them. If nothing else, if this conference final is not going to give us a close series, a veritable McDavid versus McKinnon matchup where both guys are scoring every game and going off, at the very least we're seeing a truly great team get the job done in more ways than one. And now they just have to finish it for game four. That's what I've liked, at least watching the first few games. Yeah. It's been impressive to see Colorado do that because I did think they were a bit more of a top-heavy team, but they've gotten contributions from some places you

wouldn't expect. Comper has been really impressive for sure. But at the same time, I am a little disappointed that McDavid-Riss-McKinnon hasn't been a bigger storyline in this series. They've both had moments for sure, but I did want to see like one game where they're just trade punches and just go off and they're both like leading their team. Yeah. Yeah, like those vibes from the best player in the world and McKinnon who is close to second or third depending on how you view the game obviously. But it's been a bit disappointing in that regard.

And I really thought that the Oilers would hang a bit more. I thought, I didn't think it would be a particularly close series. I thought Colorado was the much better team, but I didn't think it'd be like this, where the owners would be staring down a 3-0 deficit. It's like what Julian said, though. I think the abs are so good in the sense that, like, again, just going back to the flames, because that's what I was completely embedded with the most. Like the Flames team that we kind of saw for the regular season and the good parts of round one

is a team that doesn't allow a whole lot. They keep the puck in the offensive zone. Like that is their way to play. And they got into the track meet with the Oilers on game one. And everyone thought that was so fun and exciting. And it was. But a lot of the flames players kind of trace game one, like they traced back to game one and said, like,

we started the series off like playing their game. We won that one, but we couldn't get it on the rails after that. It just turned into this high octane, high offense, high scoring series in Calgary. not have the firepower to hang with that. Colorado does. Like, that's a team who can win the track meet against the Edmonton Oilers, not just from their first line, but their second line. And we're seeing even the fourth line show up and do that. And, you know, line by line, you kind of go through and the Colorado Avalanche either match, say, their top line or have them beat on every other

line of depth and their blue lines better. And they can win the track meet, but they can also win the gritty shutdown, slog it up type games too. So that's what I think has made them so impressive. The last game, we did see a couple things, you know, the Evander Kane boarding on Nazim Kodry. He was given a one game suspension, so he will miss game four. My problem with that is I feel like the only reason he got a game is that Cadry's hurt. And it just seems so typical that they give out the punishment based on the results, not the actual action itself. And the fact that Cadre did not come back in that game. And Evander Cain had the opportunity to play in the last minute of the game down like one goal or something.

I just, I don't know how we can see hits and injuries like that and say, okay, well, he gets to leave. You go sit in the box for five minutes and you come back out and try to make an impact on that game. You imagine if Evander Kane would have got the game winner or something after knocking Cadreou for the rest of the series. Oh, yeah. Like, it would have easily been like a controversial, it would still controversial regardless. Obviously, that didn't happen, but I just, I don't know, I just, eh. I don't know.

I still, I have no confidence in the D OPS. I like to think that whenever they have to do almost any type of judgment, there's like a big wheel in their office and they have to like spin it. And it's like, okay, it's at three games. We have to say three games. This could have easily been like two games. They could have easily said like rest of the series or something. Like I just on the surface, it looks like a suspendable hit. Like it's from behind.

It's on the numbers. The guy goes right into the boards. Four feet away from the board. words too. Like, even if Nazim Kadri doesn't get hurt, that should be a suspendable hit. And then all I've seen... And that's the problem is I think they waited. Like, if he was not hurt, like, if Nazim Kadri was playing in game four, Evander Kane

probably would have had a fine. And what's wild is all weekend, I've seen a whole bunch of people on Twitter post up these very similar occurrences where, like, McDavid getting hit into the boards. I think there was like the Kyler Yamamoto hit that was a little bit similar. Like, those, first off, all... of those should be suspendable. Like, whatever people put those up, they're like, hey, well, what about this hit? Like, yeah, that should also be suspended. That was also bad. That was very bad. Yes, we should expect better from the people in charge of handing out suspensions.

But the powers that be don't always do that for whatever reason. But yeah, I mean, even if Nasson-Cadry didn't get hurt, that should have been a, that should have been a suspendable play. And the fact that Evander Cain only got one game, I'll be quite honest here. Initially, my first thought was this is the NHL's way of saying, okay, well, we're suspending you for the rest of the series. But we also think this game isn't going to go beyond the one game. So no point suspending you two, three games on two, three games you're not going to play in the series. That's how I read it initially. But, you know, they could have easily said rest of the series.

Oh, how we all laughed and laughed at the jokes about Evander Kane will be out for the remainder of the series. Yeah. I do think the Department of Player Safety, like they do take into account whether the player is hurt or not. They've done that in the past a lot. It's part of their methodology. Whether it should be or not is obviously up for debate, but that is an important factor for sure. I think we all just want a little consistency. And when people are tweeting, what about this hit? What about this? Like, yeah, those should be suspendable. We want the same consistency you do. And it sucks to see. But that is the NHL for you, the best sport and oftentimes the worst league. I think the one thing

is that I wonder is if Cadry delivered that hit to VanderKay and how long is his is mentioned because I doubt it's just one day.

Yo. And what is ever and what's the Twitter reaction? Like what's the conversation we're having today and are people online

if it's Nazam Khadri? Like, oh man. I don't know if it's, like I put that same question out there. like over the weekend. And I wasn't trying to say like, oh, it would have express it, it would have explicitly

been more, but definitely the discourse around Nazim Khadri would have drudged up. Oh, yeah, it would have come up. The real Nazim Khadry showed up. Like, we would have gotten a lot of those comments if Nazim Khadry did that. Even if it was on Evander Kaine, we all know has his issues. Yeah. And I even saw some people like making jokes being like, well, we all knew Nazim Kodry was going to be involved in some stupid hit and like miss a playoff round.

It's like, uh, he's hurt, dude. Like, yeah, let's, let's not. Let's not say we did or just not. Yeah. You know, respect that the guy's hurt and got boreded and aggressively. Expecting, expecting respect from people on the internet nowadays, you know what? Like, stop doing that. You're letting yourself.

Just post raccoon memes and. really stupid stuff and vibe by yourself. That's what I do. My Twitter gets progressively weirder as the off-season goes on is as I stop like writing, like I write a little bit less and start just like posting weird stuff. I think my Twitter timeline gets a little weird in the off-season. It's a little weird in general. Yeah.

Did you guys see the cat me? Did you guys see the cat when I retweeted on the weekend? So don't you scroll on by without stuff? Oppen in to say meowdy partner and it's a cat wearing a cowboy hat. Sure did. It was great. Did it make you laugh? Classic hails.

It was great. Yeah. We love that. Anyways. Okay, you guys talk about the abs. I'm sorry. I'm just looking for this tweet. I'm like, where is it?

I haven't seen it. I don't know. Oh my God. Isn't it great? That's a cowboy hat. No, it's a shirtman. Yeah. And he's, it's a little shape.

sheriff's hat and he's like dipping it. You know, when you take your hat off and it's going to be me at the stampede this summer. Okay, so sorry. Anyways. No, no. I was saying you guys keep talking about the avalanche. I'm going to find this weird draft combine question because I want to ask you guys your opinion on what you would do. Yeah, the toilet pole question.

I haven't memorized. Don't worry. Oh, I should have known. So this is very, so are we done talking about the hockey? Can we talk about the draft combine? About toilets? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

I want to hear the question. The question was, would you rather take a $10 bill off the bowl of a toilet or a $50 bill from the inside of a toilet? Take both. That's not an option, Haley. That's not an option. Clown. Why is my first thinking like in the bowl of the toilet? Hell yeah.

There's water in the toilet. I don't know. You might have like an empty, anything. It doesn't matter. Unless it's a dirty toilet, I'm not interested. Wait. You are not kidding about the whole real thing. That's not like that.

Yikes. Whatever gets her rocks off, geez. I think I need another month off. Okay. I meant... The $10 one, that's my answer. Whatever doesn't have me going into the dirty toilet. I said as long as it's not a dirt...

I meant as long as it's not a dirty toilet. Give me the $1 million. It's an extra $40. Yeah. Like, it's toilet water. It cleans itself. It's fine. Exactly.

That's why I'm going in the toilet. Unless it's dirty. But like, but like... I got to know about the toilet. Is it your toilet? Is it a public toilet? Is it like a... You have none of these facts.

You just have this question. You just, you're just being told to just get it, just either take money from a toilet. You are sitting down in front of Martin St. Louis and he's saying to you, what would you rather fish money out of? A toilet bowl or the toilet seat. You don't know which one's dirtier. Well, it's clearly. a metaphor, would you rather do the dirty work to get a bigger payoff or would you rather take the easy way out?

Oh, that's so lame. Did people not get that from the question? Like I felt it was extremely easy, but they just made it very obvious by the $40. So they're asking a 16 year old kid. Would you rather? That's really funny. What did you learn about me from saying I want both? you agree

that I'll put in all the extra work no that you're a thief because you can only take one I think it shows that I'm crafty like a raccoon yeah little raccoon I don't know couldn't you make the argument that like

maybe you're sure you're willing to do the dirty work but like maybe you're willing to do a whole yeah do like a whole bunch of random stuff you don't really necessarily need to be doing for all this when you could just do the least the more smart thing which is grab it off the smart thing is taking $40 less like if they were equal then you obviously take the the toilet see way the toilet that is fair they're not equal that's the point that's fair okay so yeah i i guess i guess i'm going to take the money then in the 50 i'm going to take the 50 then i'm going to change my mind i don't know it's just

There's too many variables. There's too many things to think about. I don't know. Was that the weirdest combine question from this past weekend? I saw that from Scott because I guess the HABs have a reputation of asking like really weird, difficult interview questions. As a fish year with this new regime. So, yeah, I just talked about dirty toilet water.

So I think I'm done today. So I know we kind of. take it away. Yeah, that's fun. That's okay. One other thing, I know, not to kind of double back here,

we should plug Dom's article where he ranks some of the past playoff matchups and some of the individual playoff matchups. I do want to touch on that before we get to like more Stanley Cup final stuff. Dom,

great job on it, by the way. But also, in terms of the McKinnon versus McDavid, matchup. Like, could you go into more detail on how that ranks compared to some of the other great mono-e-mono matchups from like 2010 onward? Yeah, well, the rankings that I did sort of looked at what the players are going to the series and how much hype, I guess there should be based on how good they are. So my model goes back to 2010. I can measure how much value each player

was expected to deliver going into each series. And usually the best players in the world would be around three wins, four wins, and then the absolute best like Crosby and Ovechkin would sometimes flirt with five. And we're in an era now where the best players are maybe like better than ever. They are so far ahead of the rest of the league where you have McDavid and Matthews around six wins and McKinnon and a few others around five. And so there's never been a series where there have been two players worth five wins or more in the same series until McDavid versus McKinnon. It topped out somewhere around four and a half and four or something like that.

Something close to that. And in this playoffs, there's actually been, I think there's been two because Goodrow is around that ballpark as well. So McDavid played him. And then Matthews played Kutrov in the first round. And that is not quite as high. but those three series ended up being the highest valued superstar series of the past 12 years. And I think that's part of the reason why this playoffs has, I think, been one of the best in a long time is you have these heavyweight matchups in almost every series,

and the players have never been stronger. And we're getting some really entertaining bouts as a result. And obviously, McDavid-McDenhan hasn't really lived up to the hype yet, but there's still time for McDavid to work some magic, maybe. Maybe in a game four, maybe with his back against the wall, with an unhealthy, with a Leon Dryside on that 100% Noah VanderCain, darn no nurse playing, not playing at his best. Maybe. Maybe.

We'll see. We'll have to see about that. Before we let you go, Dom, before we wrap up this wholesome edition of the Afunicocci show, I know that it's looking like it's going to be like Colorado in the West, and then we're going to have to figure out who's going to be repping from the East. But who do you guys actually want out of these conference finals to be in the Stanley Cup final? Like, what's the matchup you all want? I've been saying Colorado Cup final when we started doing our predictions in the first round.

I think if that's a team who struggled to get over the hump, they've got a great team. I kind of said like this is the year for the abs. And I hope it is. I would like to see them win. They're a really exciting team to watch. I think there's a lot of individual players that are great. I've been gunning for Colorado to the Cup final this year. I think in the east, though, I mean, it would be funny to see Tampa get to the final again,

but it would be also kind of cool to see somebody different, especially somebody who people didn't think they were going to get through the first round after, you know, game three against Pittsburgh. So I'm not super tied to one team in the east, but definitely Colorado in the West. Honestly, I like all four teams and I think any combination would be fun in its own way. I want Colorado to come through because I think they're the best team in the league. and it's been a while since the best team in the league before the playoffs has actually made it this far or won anything. And I think against either of Tampa or New York, there's an interesting storyline, I think, versus New York. It'd be really fun to see Colorado just pepper them with shots and Shosturkin making 50 saves a night and playing out of his mind and maybe making things interesting.

But against Tampa Bay, I think probably one of the best series. of this playoffs was that Leafs Tampa Bay first round. And I think Colorado is a faster, better, deeper version of the Leafs with a goalie that you can rely on. And I think that would make for an interesting series against Tampa Bay that sort of has the blueprint on how to beat that kind of team. But obviously we want Braden point back for that kind of series to get the full star power. But I don't know. It would be interesting if Edmonton came back because that would sort of legitimize how good they are. It's just obviously very unlikely. So in that sense, it would be fun. But yeah, I'm thinking Colorado versus Tampa is the preference, but I wouldn't mind a New York series either.

One of the final things I was going to ask, actually, Dom, before you go, and Julian, jump in on this one too. The Selky Award was given out, awarded. The Selky Award was awarded. Silky Trophy. Jeez. It was Patrice Bergeron again. Lynn Holm finished second. I'm just curious, is this kind of how you saw this coming out in terms of who won and who was placed where? Because I know you do your awards watch every year. And I think everyone kind of assumed that Bergeron was going to win. There was just some things on the ballot that were a little surprising to me. Like Johnny Goddrow and Sidney Crosby having this.

No, Johnny Goddrow had more votes than Sidney Crosby or more points. Evan Rodriguez had the same amount of votes as Crosby. There was a player from Buffalo who was like pretty high up to. Rasmus Aspland. That was an evolving hockey special because I think their metrics have been ranked pretty high. And the twins seemed really thrilled that their kooky thread every year of who should be, they have every like four times a year they'll be like, this is who we think should win the NHL Wars. It'll be like Hart Trophy.

That makes sense. Norse Trophy. That makes sense. Sucky Trophy. Here are some guys. And it'll be like the most random third or fourth liners in the world. And honestly, a lot of times it does track. Three or four years ago, it was Marcus Felino and Valerie Natruchkin leading those kinds

of threads. And I think they're really good marks for players who deserve more ice time and can make a bigger impact if given a bigger role. I just don't think for a major award. you give them that credit just yet. And I think Natchushkin and Falino, they paid their dues and now they're showing they can do that in an actual shutdown capacity. And now this is the year where they were worthy for consideration. They got a lot more love than they probably would have in the past.

So I think the analytics movement, and I think thanks to those weird, kooky threads. But that's how Aspland, I think, gets some love and I think some other players as well. but I expected Bergeron and Lindholm and O'Reilly to be pretty prominent. I would have liked a bit more love for Sorrelli and Falino, but I don't think they had, I think, the offense that some people look towards, but defensively they're both extremely strong this year. But other than that, it seemed fine as long as Bergeron won in the landslide, and he did.

So credit to the writers for getting that one right, although it was, I think, a very easy one this year. It's really weird, though, because when did the Selke trophy, it's turned into like the two-way forward award versus the best defensive forward award? And I mean, I'm guilty of that interpretation as well. I think, you know, talking about Elias Linholm. You know, he's a great defensive player, but like Michael Backland has, is the one who, you know, did better against McDavid or, you know, he's not as offensive. gifted, but Michael Becklin's always been the defensive specialist. So I think sometimes people get locked into that.

Like Dom, you're just saying, like, Sirelli didn't have the offense that other guys did. Like, that shouldn't matter. It shouldn't. This is the best offensive forward award. I think, yeah, I didn't have O'Reilly on my ballot. I don't remember if I did or not. I think he was like in consideration. Yeah.

I did. So my ballot is I did Bergeron, Eric, and Eck, Lynn Holm, Sorrelli, Barkoff. And Barkoff probably would have been higher had he not missed 20-something games. But I always get really torn between putting like two guys from the same team on there too. Like Brad Marchand had a great year. His defensive impact was very good this season.

So was Marcus Felino. But I felt I needed. And like same with Backlin and Linholm. But I was like, I'm not going to put two guys from different teams on here. So I kind of picked each lane. And I think Erickson, Eck and Falino were like. like an interesting kind of back and forth too. But who did you have done?

I had no problem with that because I, here's the thing, I thought Bergeron's season was so good and Marant was honestly a big part of that. And I thought his defensive impact and his play, he plays the penalty kill with Bergeron. He has elite five on five numbers as well. And I felt he was worthy of being consideration. So I had Bergeron first, Marchand second. I have zero problem with putting two players from the same team because I think,

think they were the most elite defensive due in the league and they were worthy of that. After them, I had Lindholm third. I think there were a lot of advanced stats people who didn't like Lindholm's inclusion because his ex-gar was negative or whatever. But I think a lot of that is missing the forest for the trees. Like that sort of regression will give credit to Kachuk or Kedro for their defensive impact because of some different minutia or whatever. But Lindholm was a great defensive for this year.

He was part of the best line in hockey this year. And I think the fact that the team didn't allow many chances with him on the ice, didn't allow many goals with him on the ice, needs to be taken into consideration on top of how he did relative to teammates or how he did when you regress and adjust and all that stuff. after them I had Felino and Sorrelli And that's my ballot

I don't have a vote on Any of the any of the NHL award So I probably Yeah Yeah that'd be nice Once you're up to like seven podcasts Then you're Then you'll be like this guy's on

I have to do four more of these Like okay fine Oh I thought you were at like five or six already That's my bet That's fair I don't I wouldn't I don't have a very detailed list of one through five or my ballot or anything.

I mean, I would have just voted for Patrice Bergeron, but considering the year that he's having. And even though it's the consensus pick, I think, I mean, obviously I would have been right. But just seeing him do this at his age at a point where he's considering retiring, for him to go out as the best defensive forward in the game, I mean, that's a pretty good way to retire. I still would be very surprised if Bergeron said, you know what,

I'm playing for a different team other than Boston. I still think he retires or if he comes back, but I don't see him leaving. But for him to leave not only being the best defensive forward in the game, but now setting the record for five with five sell keys, like that's, that would be pretty good for him. So yeah,

but Bergeron would have been my pick. But yeah, I don't have an actual ballot for NHL awards yet. So, yeah, sorry. Otherwise, I would have, like, had one. Yeah, otherwise I would have been more than happy to be like, Here's who I had one through five, but I don't know. I don't know who I need to talk to from the PHWA or whatever to have a vote, I guess.

This is the call right now. Yeah. Make your pitch. Mm-hmm. It's an elevator pitch. I have a bunch of podcasts, very successful. I write for the best NHL team and edit for the best NHL editorial team in the world. And, yeah, I even get to fill in our podcasts with two of the best to do it at the athletic.

So let me vote on awards, damn it. Very smart and handsome as well. You need to up the handsome quotient on the awards ballots. Handsome for 60. We're putting that up. We bringing them numbers up. I think that's going to do it for this. Hold on.

We're not going to talk about the Top Gun power rankings. Did you guys watch Top Gun? Oh, no. I didn't watch them. Oh, I forgot about the power rankings. I'm sorry. My bad. Yeah.

I mean, it's fine. There's only four teams left. plus a bunch of nicknames after. Yeah, which was your favorite nickname? Because me and Sean worked really hard on thinking of cool nicknames for every team. I hate Tom Cruise. I did not watch Top Gun. You didn't watch Top Gun?

What do you hate Tom Cruise? I don't like Tom Cruise. That movie ruled so hard. I don't like Tom Cruise. Well, this is a conversation between me and Julian then. Which was your favorite call sign, Julian? That me and Sean. Okay.

Okay, I need to pull this up because I want to make sure I get this. That's right. Because I haven't even, like, I really want to watch the Top Gun. He didn't read the power rankings. Unbelievable. In all fairness, I normally went on Friday, but I was very sick. I was very sick and I couldn't read them. I liked the power rankings that included the video of Pingu.

I will put that on the record. Sean did not know what Pingu was until I showed him a bunch of random. Pingo videos. So you're welcome. I texted him the next morning. I'm like, thank you for including Pingo. I don't know how I missed that one. I sent like at least four different video compilations of like this one's my, this one's

the funniest, but this one's really good too. Oh, here's him coming home drunk at the bar. Are you trying to out yourself as a ghostwriter for the power rankings? This is what's happening here? Absolutely, yes. If you ever want to have power rankings, with raccoons, just let me know. I do want to do that, actually.

Do you have 32 raccoon photos? I probably could whip some up, yes. Okay. Or videos. Like, what team, so you know the video of the raccoon trying to wash his cotton candy in the water and then it evaporates and he gets really upset? What NHL team is that raccoon? Julian, raccoons, like, clean their food.

and someone gave a raccoon a piece of cotton candy and then he went to wash it and it evaporated and then he's just looking into his hands like, ah. Honestly, it might be the flames. Like, why? Because they evaporated in the second round. Yeah, they did. Is there a team whose players just keep evaporating?

Everyone keeps leaving. Where's my cotton candy? I mean, that too. They haven't left yet. Hey. All right, Julian. What's the best call sign? Rattahooie for Boston Bruins.

That is very spot on. Thank you. I can't believe they call it a perfection line one. That's right there for them, you know? Yeah. It is right there. But Rattituitousy is like, that's pretty good. Maverick's too easy.

Poultergeist with the Leafs is also pretty good. I like Fumerang for Florida. Prick. No, sorry, brick, not prick. I said brick for Carolina. Boomerang's not bad for Florida either I still can't believe Florida went out the way that they did sad

Thriller I don't know why I said Thrilla in Minnesota But Carrille the Thrill That dude's got next man He really is that dude He got some really good Carl Sidesman Thank you

I appreciate that We worked super hard on those I know you did And again I would have read it I would have read it it on the Friday if I wasn't sick. Yeah, you're a go-to guy for editing those.

And there you were missing the best one. Because I was sick. It was very sick. Yeah, but you're always sick as hell. Oh, just look at this again, man. Look at you out here. Just give these compliments, man. Thank you.

Thank you. Hey, you're fine. No. Haley, no. Haley, you're great. Don't listen to Dom. No, you know what, he's right. We've done more than enough damage.

I've boosted Haley enough for one lifetime. Okay. We've done enough damage on the athletic hockey show for a Monday. Dom, I'm sorry I got your last name wrong, loose chisn. Oh my God. What still? I got the loose part right. Loose chishin.

She's phenomenal. Okay. 10 of 10. Well, yeah. Okay. Well, I'm not going to fail again. Dom, thank you very much for hanging out with Haley and I on the Affotic Hockey Show on this year Monday. Haley, thank you for letting me hang out with you on the show that you normally host with Ian.

This was great. Yeah. Awesome. And thank you to everyone else. It was more than fine. It was great. It was great. Minus me butchering Dom's name.

Thank you to everyone for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Please follow us on your favorite podcast platform and leave a rating and review. We'd really appreciate it. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from our entire network. Start with a 30-day free trial than just 99 cents a month after that. And right now you can subscribe to The Athletic for a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic. com slash hockey show.