The Athletic Hockey Show - Team USA dominating IIHF U18 tournament in Germany

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

On this edition of the Prospect Series Max and Corey discuss the 2022 IIHF Under 18 tournament happening right now in Germany. The guys analyze how prospects in the tournament are looking, including Logan Cooley, Isaac Howard Rutger McGroarty and Ryan Chesley from Team USA, Connor Bedard and Adam Fantilli from Team Canada, Jiri Kulich from Czech Republic, Jonathan Lekkerimaki from Sweden and Joakim Kemell from Finland.Plus Max and Corey look at the final four of the tournament with the US set to play Czech and Finland and Sweden to meet in the semi-final.As always, the guys wrap the pod by dipping into then mailbag and answer your questions on Jason Robertson, Zac Bolduc and Juraj Slafkovsky. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Max Bolman here alongside Corey Pranman, back with another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. This one with Corey live on site in Germany. He is at the World U18 tournament, which is about a week into it so far. And Corey, so far, it's been a real dominant tournament for the Americans. Right, and that was somewhat expected coming in. But I think even with expecting that they would be a clear, top. team. Nobody looks really close to challenge them here. Even though they did lose the pre-terming game to Sweden, they could possibly play Sweden in the gold medal game. So that would be some

interesting dynamic there. But you look at the Czechia team who looks really, really strong right now and potentially a silver medal contender in this tournament. And when they played the USA, they had a lead there for about a period, but for this two-thirds of that game, it, they couldn't get close to that U.S. team in terms of the depth of talent that they have. And I think that's the thing that these good nations have struggled with when they've played the U.S. is, you know, there are, the U.S. isn't a team full of superstars. There are players on other teams that are better than some of the players that they have at various positions, but they just have four really good lines.

they have three good, at least I would argue, two good defense pairs in the serviceable third one. And their goaltending has been fine. There hasn't really been a great goalie in this tournament, but their goaltending hasn't hurt them. But they can just keep rolling the lines. He found that game versus Canada. When Connor Bardard and Fantili were on the ice, they could skate with the U.S. And then the second they got off, they were pinned in their own end. Well, it's kind of a twofold thing.

I forget whether we address this on the preview episode or not. But this is, you know, the U.S. NCDP, this is what. what they build toward, right? For two years, they build toward being ready for the World U-18 championships. And so they play together. They have chemistry that none of these other teams can really quite match. Obviously, the other nations have, you know, they'll go to certain international events as a U-18 program over the years, but these guys play together for two years, and they should be the favorites. Like, this is not totally unexpected here. This is how it typically stacks up on paper. But between that and what you were talking about, a really talented group that

does have just really significant depth and can score on all four lines. This is how it has added up so far. And you never know. You see upsets at these tournaments, especially once you get in a single elimination, I think Finland can always knock anybody off. And they look like they have a really good team again this year. But as we sit here today on Friday, it has been a really impressive event for the Americans. And we'll get into kind of the individual players on the end, really the whole rest of the field in the second. But a couple of guys in particular I wanted to talk to about. Start at the very top of Logan Coley. What have you thought of his tournament? He's a guy who most expect to go in the top five, potentially top three. Yeah, I think Coolly's been excellent.

No surprise in that regard, but being the first line center on that team, he's showing his great speed, skill, offensive creativity, just an overall, top player at the junior level and a guy I expect it will be a very good pro. I wouldn't say, if you ask me, who's been the best player here? I wouldn't say he's been the guy. I can see the argument, just being the best player on the best team. But I can't see, I can see arguments for several other players, and I think you would have hoped Logan Cooley would have just come in here

and scored three points a game and left no doubt. But he has been very strong. Really, the American team has had a few guys who have produced significantly, Obviously, Cooley's won. But I would say early in the tournament, probably the story was Isaac Howard, who opened it with a four-goal game. And recently, Rucker McGority, it seems like every time you look up, he is scoring a goal from the slot. I mean, the overall scoring, I mean, those are two guys who I think, you know, Cooley having had established himself really high in the draft. Those two guys have really helped himself so far at this tournament.

Yep, I would say that for sure. I mean, Howard had the four-goal game against Canada, too. I mean, obviously this was not the same Canadian team we're used to seeing, but that was still, a good, you know, a good junior team, and he rose through the occasion, had a huge game. I think he's had a great tournament. I'd argue McGroarkey's had even a better tournament. And I think he's been just every single game, I feel like he's making an impact. And he does it through his skill and his playmaking.

He has six goals as we record this. He wins a lot of battles. He can create offense around the net in the slot, as you mentioned. There's a lot to like about this player. I think both guys are on the rise. I'd argue McGroorty is even more on the ride. I think this is a guy coming into the tournament, you said, second half of the first round.

I can see coming out of this tournament, him being a first half of the first round type of player, even though his skating is still kind of wonky. I think there's a lot of other things in his game that gets you really excited that everything else looks NHL caliber and it looks like it could translate into a middle of the lineup forward, a guy who could play both ways. And the other USA player, I would call out, would be Ryan Chesley,

the defenseman for the program. I think a lot of their defensemen have had very good tournaments. Elaine Hudson and Seamus Casey have been excellent. But I've been kind of harsh on Ryan Chesley this season, so I think it's worth calling out when he's done quite well. And I think he's done quite well here. He always had the defensive components between good skating, good physicality. You just wondered about the puck-moving game.

Is there a real legitimate offense there to play in the NHL? And I think, you know, at least here, he's been a point of game defenseman so far. He's made some plays. He's been involved in the offense while providing the solid defensive play. and I think I think that's going to stir some debate is like, hey, didn't have the greatest season but ended on a strong note,

reminds you of his underage season, looks like a guy who could be a two-way defenseman maybe in the NHL. So I think that one was really intriguing too with USA is the play of Chesley. Just to wrap on the Americans, I mean, it almost feels like we're not going to have time to get to all these guys.

But, you know, truly's linemates, Gotee and Snuggier, I don't think have done anything to hurt themselves here. We did talk about Gotee coming in as a guy who maybe had the best chance to elevate. He's, he's held serve for sure. I mean, I don't think that he's, he's had the same leap that a guy like McGority has, or to your point, Chesley. But I think both of those guys have still looked really good. That line has had stretches in the games that I've watched

where they've been completely dominant and it's been really hard to break out against them. And I think Frank Nazar's held serve on Howard's line. Obviously, Howard's scoring all those goals is going to be the one to get the shine. But he's got six or seven assists already in this tournament and still looks every bit the player that we expect to coming in. So I don't think those guys have hurt themselves at all. I don't want to ignore them. We're just probably not going to have time to give them quite the spotlight that maybe otherwise they would get after these performances. Right. I think it's still the end of the day. You're seeing at least you could see six, seven, eight first round pick come out of this team without even getting the fact that you might have

first round picks from next year. And Charlie Straywell, a high first round pick, potentially next year, and Hunter Persevitz, who could be a first round pick defenseman next year. Yeah, absolutely. No. So that's been impressive. The team they'll match up with, though, I would say may have the riser of the tournament so far, and you'll have to check me if I'm wrong with that in the semifinals in Yuri Kulich. And to me, this is the guy who put himself in the best position so far. And we'll see what he does against the Americans. You have to figure if he does what he's done against everyone else so far against his team USA team, that star even gets a little brighter here. Right.

You know, I was talking to some scouts about Kulich coming into the tournament. He wasn't on my first round list on the last one I published, but he was right on the precipice. I thought he could be a high second. I think with the ploy he's played here now, I would agree. He is the riser to the tournament. I would be surprised if he was not a first round pick up for the way he's played here. He looks like a very complete forward. He's a good skater.

He provides offensive skill in playmaking. The goal scoring touches obvious. He's been scoring goals from range here, being very dangerous in the power play. I wouldn't call him an overly physical, big type of guy, but I think he competes well. He's playing wing at this tournament. and he's played center before. I think there is some two-way in his game, not the high end, but it's good enough to go with the, again,

the pace, the skill and the scoring ability. Very intriguing player there for a check-in. He's obviously been a huge reason why they've been so successful. Him and the play of the underage player, Edgward Saleh, who looks like a very intriguing player for next year's draft, been one of the top scores here in this year's tournament. A big forward who can skate and has a lot of offensive tools. One of the most common questions that we get through the course of a draft cycle on this podcast is who are the sleepers, who are the guys that people are missing?

And I would say this tournament is going to take Coolidge out of that conversation now because everyone's going to know his name. But he does fit this profile really well in what we would look for when we answer that question, right? You're looking at a guy who played in a maybe a less prominent Euro League against men, which makes it a little harder to know what you're getting. Obviously, he didn't have some crazy explosive year in the Czech men's league, but he was still really pretty pretty much. productive without this tournament. Maybe he's this guy that surprises people, but I think this is going to be the thing that throws him into the spotlight. I don't think he's catching anybody off guard now, but this is exactly what you're looking for when you ask about that player most years. Right. I've talked to some people over the course of the year, some scouts who did have him in the first round range, but I would have

described it as a minority opinion. I would guess coming out of this tournament is going to be a majority opinion. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else on USA Chequette before we move into the other semifinal, which is going to be Finland, Sweden, and we'll wrap the Canadians too, but anything else on Chequiet USA first. Now, I think that kind of sums up there. I think the play of Salé is really notable. He looks like a really tough guy for the 2020 draft. A lot of attributes there that can get you excited. You looked at the play of Batia Sapalov for Chequette. He's been good. He's here, but I wouldn't say he's been great. I think if he was coming in to try to make the argument that he was a first round pick, I don't

think he's made it. But he still looks like a good player, big, competitive, has some puck skills. Could potentially be a bottom six four in the NHL, I think. All right, moving into the other semi-final then, I would say that, you know, Sweden and Finland, obviously upsetting Canada with the Kampek win the other day. That's been impressive. But to me, the stories of this semifinal is going to be watching two potential top 10 pick wingers. And there's more guys in that. certainly in this game.

But Jonathan La Karamaki having one of the best tournaments of anybody so far with a huge five-point game the other day. And Yolkammel, who had a hat trick against Canada. And he was a guy that we had highlighted coming in for obvious reasons. He's a top 10 Canada in this draft. But specifically because his second half had cooled a little bit in Liga, we wanted to see him reestablish himself against his peers. I would say more than fair to say he has done exactly that.

Right. First game, he scores a goal, I believe. he was good, not great. It was pretty good. I wouldn't say he was amazing in that game, but he was quite solid. Then he gets the flu, misses the second game. Third game, he comes back. He's just okay.

Maybe it's the flu. Maybe he just has an off game. But then it's that quarterfinal versus Kant, where you watch that game. And it's very clear why Camel is such a top prospect. It has the hat trick, including the overtime game winner in that game. Not just the goals, because the goals, all three of them were impressive in their own indebt.

individual right. But he shows the pace, the work ethic, to go with the skill and point-making ability, just a really well-rounded forward other than the fact that he's not the biggest guy and not a center. I guess it would be the nitpicks you can put on him, but it looks like he showed in that quarterfinal why he could be a top-10 pick. And if you wanted to argue him higher than that range, I think that game would be a great argument for that. Yeah, I think even you look at the winner that he had in overtime. It's not just, just setting up and teen off for a one-timer. It's reading a play, picking off a pass, and taking it the length before obviously beating the goal. We know he could finish. But I thought

that stood out to me. And I think, you know, you say he's not the biggest guy, but he's also fairly sturdy. And I think when you combine that with the pace and the work ethic, this is what you would want to see out of a kind of a quote-unquote scoring winger to know that they are going to have that B-game. They are going to be able to help you not just teeing up on the powerplay. So that's been my biggest takeaway. I just feel a lot better about Kamel after this tournament. Not that I was ever doubting it. But it's that little extra boost after the second half. Yeah.

And like I said, I think there's a lot to offer there. I think his work ethic off the puck is really strong. I've seen quite a few times in this tournament where he comes hard back on the back check, forces a turnover, forces the opposing player into a mistake. I think you really like that. That's why I think he will, even though it's good, not great speed, it's average size. but I think there's a lot there with the compete and the skill where you think he'll be able to drive plate even strength and not just be a power play guy, which I think is very important. How about on the other side, Le Caramaki?

And I mean, his line, I think, has been kind of for Sweden, the go-to line with No Osler, Liam Ogren. Again, this is another one. We know he's a good player. He's been pretty productive in his limited time in the SHL so far. But what have you seen from Le Caramaki in this tournament? It's interesting in that he co-leads the tournament and scoring. as we're recording this, when I have watched the games, though,

I wouldn't say he's popped in the way that his other co-leader, Yuri Kulich has. I don't think he's looked that way, but Lechramaki can have a little bit of a sleepy game sometimes, but the skill level is so high, that shot is just outstanding. That goal he scored at the end of the game versus Germany. It's probably the best shot in the draft,

and one of the better shots you'll see in junior hockey right now. Just like that really skilled. creative goal-scoring winger doesn't play the game in the same way as yelikim kamele is like and whereas i think yokeel has a little bit more direct physicality in him i don't see that in lekaramaki but lekiramaki's pure goal-scoring touch i would argue is is better than kamele but but both are outstanding prospects who both have legitimate cases to go in the top 10 in the draft and and are playing the part so far Today, who are you taking head up?

You got the seventh or eighth pick in this draft and you want a winger. Which one of these guys are you going with? As of right this second, I would choose Kamel, but it would be a very tough decision. Just for the reason I said earlier in the discussion is that I think there's a little bit more even strength play in his game. And whereas I think Lekromaki's game is more suited for the power play, which is obviously valuable. But I think you just, it was between those two type of things. just think Camel's compete level is significantly higher. One of the goals that La Caramaki scored so far in this tournament was set up a long stretch

pass. He had a really nice finish out on the backhand, but the stretch pass I thought was notable to. And that was by a guy who's really been productive with this tournament. Matthias Havla, the 5'10 defenseman on the Swedish team. What kind of impression is he made on you? I think he kind of entered the fold here as like a mid to late third round candidate. Is that still kind of where he's at? Yeah, I would say he's probably going to go higher than that.

because of the size, I don't know if he's going to work his way all the way into the first round, but it's worth having a discussion. At least right now, as we record this, he's one goal off from tying the goal record at this tournament set by Matthew Dunba and David Quinville. You know, just really skilled, smart defenseman. He has the big point shot. He's a pretty strong skater. There's a lot there to like other than the size. You said he's 5'10.

He might not even be 5'10 tall, to be quite honest. I think Central measured him around 5-9. I've seen other places say he's 5-10-2. But, again, he's in that discussion. He probably came in as like a second, third-round type. He's probably leaving the term right now as I would say a strong second-round candidate could sneak into the late one if someone, you know, if someone falls in love with the talent there, just, you know,

with small defensemen, the bar has to be so high. And you might argue he's met that. bar. He's really good here, really good in the J20 playoffs in Sweden. He was the best player, big part of Y Limp-Colping, won their J-20 championship. So he's had a very strong last couple of months. How do you stack him up with a couple of the U.S.'s undersized defensemen, Seamus Casey, and Lane Hudson? Is he pretty clearly a step ahead at this point? I don't know if he's a step ahead. I think I've actually had this discussion with other people hear the tournament.

How do you compare them to Casey and Hudson? I think Hudson and Casey are both players. I like a lot. I don't have either of them in the first, and I'm not sure this guy clears the bar yet for me, but I think you can start having those discussions with all three. And I really like all three. If I was to do a top 50 list instead of a top 25 or a top 30,

they would all definitely be in there. And I think it's just a matter of what order you put all three of them in. I think, and we didn't talk about them again because there are so many good American players, but I think you've seen those two guys both pop at this tournament too. So it will be interesting to see how that shakes out. Before we move on from the Swedes, though, I want to wrap up on La Karamaki's linemates because I think Noah Ossan in particular, and I haven't watched a ton of this, been able to watch a ton of Sweden's games,

but he's been a guy who I think has popped to me. He had one play, and it was against a defender who didn't have a stick, so I'm trying not to make too much out of it. But it was a really impressive play at the net there. And he's just been good this tournament. I mean, what has he done for himself? Osland in this tournament. Yeah, you're right. And he has definitely helped himself.

Is Holinka in the summer at this age level, kind of like Coolidge, it was good, not great. And now he comes to this tournament and he elevates to a higher level, the same level as Coolidge, obviously, but he's played quite well, has this, you know, a high, very high skill level. He makes plays. But it's not just the flashy skill stuff that he shows and shows often.

It's he skates really well. He competes hard. He's a center who can, is responsible defensively, a lot there alike, scored a lot earlier in the tournament, less in the last game or so, but he's a strong player. Does he get into the first?

I would say no right now. Coming into the tournament, I would say a hard no. And right now I would say lean no, but not ruling it out, just because, again, 5-11 guy, it's got talent, good numbers this year, but it's not outstanding numbers. It's outstanding skill.

so that's where I would stand right now. How about one other Swedish defenseman, and this is a guy, Leah Salamanson, who we kind of teased, I think, in the previous episode. What's he shown you so far at the tournament?

He's been just okay, to be quite honest, probably not the tournament you were hoping if you were high on him coming into the tournament. Just looks like a good skater, good first pass, showed some physicality,

and maybe too much. It led to a five and a ten on him in the quarterfinal game against Germany, I would argue that Calli Adelius, the Gergaard defenseman, has arguably been their second best defenseman behind Havlet at this one. All right, picking back up now, Corey. Let's get to the other side of that semi-final matchup with Finland. We talked about Kamel.

Who else on the Finnish team has caught your eye here so far? There's been a couple of players. They don't have as deep a team as, as Sweden does, but they definitely have a couple of guys that have caught my eye. And quite frankly, the guys who have caught my eye have been guys eligible for future drafts. Casper Haltoonan, who will be a guy to know for the 2023 draft, has been quite impressive, big, powerful winger, really good hands, can shoot it out of, you know, very well. He's a one-timer threat from the circles.

He competes well. skating looks fine. Probably wouldn't call him a burner, but it looked fine at this level. And he's been one of their better players, really impressed by him. I think everybody, whether you knew the player or didn't,

in my case, I hadn't really watched the player. We're very curious how the 06-born defenseman, Kiva Haru, was going to perform at this tournament as a double underage at this level. Saw him in the first couple of games. He was good.

didn't think he was outstanding. And I think being even good at this level as a double underage is impressive at its own right. It's not easy for a guy to come up and do that be a play. He's playing on their top pair. He's playing on their second power play. That's not easy. But the last game or so, you were watching it really, and I see, okay, I see what the big deal is now with this guy. His hockey sense is outstanding.

It's just the poise and the vision he's showing as a recent, as a, as a recent, the 15 recently turned 16-year-old is, is really impressive to go with pretty strong skating ability. The one thing you'll have to worry about with him over the coming years is the frame. He's only 5 foot 10. Ideally, you'd obviously like that to be better, but I think even if he is, and this is a guy you've got to know for the next few years,

if he grows and the skating maintains, maybe you're talking about him as a real top echelot player. Even if not, though, I still think this is a very strong, pro prospect who is performed as well. I think you could uphold for such a young player here. Well, so speaking of teams who, you know, a lot of the guys who are catching your eye are the underages. I think we probably should shift into Canada now. They eliminated in the quarterfinals. And really, I would say the story of that team, unsurprisingly, is Connor Bedard, Adam Fintilly as well. And I think you probably put Matthew Wood in that conversation. None of these guys

eligible for the 2022 draft. I mean, Owen Pickering, I think probably belongs in that tier. I think he was named one of Canada's players of the tournament, and he's obviously in this draft. But when you look ahead, when you look at this Canada team, is it really about just looking ahead? Because to me, those guys were the stories of the tournament primarily. Right. And this Canada team obviously uniquely disadvantaged relative to other Canadian U18 teams in the past. The U18 World Championships is always a difficult team to put a team together for because of the conflict with the CHL playoffs. But this year, the conflict was even greater because of the CHA.

HL playoffs were delayed significantly by COVID stoppages. No QMJHL players were eligible at all, as all those teams make their first round, and there was only a couple of OHL and WHL teams they could choose from. So it was really slim pickings. But, you know, again, so the story ended up being not guys who were 2004 born, but the guys for future draft years. Connor Bedard and Fantilia, as you said, were, in my opinion, not controversially by any means they're two best players.

I mean, Badaards, what he does with the puck is just outstanding. Between his individual skill level is overall creativity, it's hockey sense, his shots is elite by any measure. Just a really, really impressive offensive player.

And I look at this guy, he's a, whatever, he is, a 510, 511 center. He's pretty, good skaters. It's not an exceptional speed, but it's a really good skater. And I think you can argue, well, you know, I've had to talk about Baderd here this week. And it's like, well, you know, what centers in the NHL look like that? And it's like, well, Cindy Crosby kind of looked like that at the same age. I'm not saying this guy's going to be Cindy Crosby, but he competes hard. He's, you know, very, very intelligent. You know, maybe he's, you know, I can think of Stancos as a

comp, too, you know, two exceptional players, obviously. both going to the Hall of Fame but and I'm not saying this guy's going to be a Hall of Famer it would be unfair comparison but just he's just an outstanding player and just highly entertaining to watch and he's been so good these two tournaments and neither of them are with his age group

he's Adam Fantilli's a late 04 so this is technically his age group but Darre could theoretically come back to this tournament next year he won't but he could theoretically come back to this tournament next year next year. A fan Tilly was one, you know, just I think you, if you were

watching him and thinking about his NHL future, you're really excited by what you saw at this tournament. A 6-2-6-3 center who could skate quite well. He's got, you know, great offensive tools. Between his, you know, his

1-V-1 play, he's zipping pucks around in the offensive zone to his teammates. He's this big center. It was competing hard. He was being physical. He looks like has all the indicators of the future number one center in the NHL. And I know you called on Matthew Wood.

He had a good tournament. He played for his power play, but didn't really play much even strength. I think the skating, he's skating just okay, cut off him at this level, but he'll be a top guy in next year's draft because he produced a lot of offense,

leading score in the BCHL this season. I think he was good. Wouldn't say he was great here. Not many players on Canada were. And I think that was kind of the issue with Canada, why they got knocked out so early is they had Bedard and Fantilli doing all those great things, but there was no second layer. And I know they didn't have the guys that they needed to, but they had some guys.

They had, you know, guys like Riga Lorenz, David Goyette, who I thought would provide, you know, a lot of, you know, some secondary scoring, and they didn't. Goyen in particular just kind of fell down the lineup as the tournament went on. there is one more guy from team germany who i'm going to want to get to but just while we're talking about all these underage guys it's so we've talked on the show before a lot about how it's really easy to fall in love with the following year's draft class every year you can probably look ahead and it's really easy to say yeah but next year look out i'm sorry to hearing it from you corey am i hearing next year look out from you i would say

next year's top of the class looks a lot strong looks i'm not even going to say a lot because I want to exaggerate, but it looks stronger than this year. Coming into this year, you had the one guy, Shane Wright, and you had some other guys that had intrigue, maybe it's Kooley, maybe it's Nemitz or Slavkovsky, maybe it's Yerachek, maybe it's Savoy or geeky. Whereas I think you're going into next year, you're like, okay, we've got three guys here. Karbadard, Anfantili, and Manfay, Mishkov, and Scott, which obviously will present its own unique issues. But those are three guys that look really exciting. I think if you put, you know,

we can talk about Bedard and Mitch Copley wanted next to size too, but I think even that they're just similar positions, similar sides, I think you can put Adam Fantilli next to Shane Wright right now. And it would be a debate. I might still lean to right, but it would be, I think you would really think about it and I could definitely see the argument for a fantilly. And it just, to me, it seems like, And I don't know. Maybe this is, maybe I'm falling into the trap here. But it just seems like there's more guys we're talking about as potentially being in that top five, top 10 range that maybe you feel a little better about the length of the, even beyond. I hear you're saying that drafts are defined by the top of the draft.

We know the top of next year's draft looks really good. You're also saying, I think, maybe a longer next tier, at least from what it seems like to me. Maybe that doesn't prove to be the case. Guys do fall off. A lot of this is projection and us getting excited about what they could do next year. But that's how it sounds to me. Yeah, I mean, like, you can nitpick. I don't think the NTP for next year is all that strong.

I don't think the Quebec region is all that strong. So you can, like, I don't think like the Swedes or look all that strong next year, but you can kind of go down those rapid goals over and over again. But I would say general, I would be more enthusiastic if I had a top five pick in next year's class. Yeah. All right. Well, then let's wrap up this tournament here with the player from Germany, Julian Lutz, six foot two forward.

He seems scored a couple of goals on big, shots in the games that I've watched. I haven't watched too much of his tournament, so I'm going to defer to you on most of this, but what did Julian Lutz show in this tournament? Right. I mean, Germany had a tough time here as the host nation, but Lutz is the one guy who you can kind of take away and say, okay, this guy's got a chance to play in the National Hockey League, 6-1624, good skater, has pretty good puck skills, you can shoot the puck well. Not a perfectly well-rounded player off the puck. He's just okay. There were stretches in there in games where he where he kind of blends into the background. But Germany's had a decent little run here, some good prospects.

And I'm starting to hear on Lutz, you know, could go in the third round, might even go in the second round. I'm not sure I'm all the way there yet, but I could see the argument for that. He looks like a strong prospect with a lot of NHL tools. All right. So that's what's happened so far. Now here we sit at the kind of the start of the semifinals, USA, Czechia, Sweden, Finland. What are you looking for in these final couple games? There are any last kind of questions you want to see answered? And who do you think wins it?

This tournament, like all AAHA tournaments, there's a couple of those good games, the U.S. Canada game, the Canada, Finland game, even the Czechia USA game. And we had some very competitive moments. But with no Russia here, there's been quite a few blowouts. You know, you had some upsets. You had Latvia beating Sweden somehow in a game that they wasn't like the shots weren't even like, well, they didn't get gold or anything like that. They just played out beat them. But there was a lot of games here where there were really significant blowouts and leads to teams like Chequia, teams like USA running up the score on guys.

I think you want to see what happens now over these next two games. No matter who wins or loses the semifinal, the two semifinals, the bronze and the golden-gold-nil game should all be highly competitive games that you think, the scores will be closer. So I think you want to see among the players we've discussed so far in this podcast. And maybe some that we haven't. Who rises to the occasion? Can somebody push the United States? And that's going to be a wrap for a lot of these players season.

It's going to be this coming weekend. So it's going to be a very exciting moment for the draft. And when we get past this tournament, we're into draft lottery. and we're in full swing for draft season. Well, you know, that's a really good point. I remember on the night the Red Wings drafted Lucas Raymond, who, you know, certainly was a guy who was looked at as a top five, certainly top 10 pick already at the time of the U-18 tournament.

I think this might have even been his, this would have been his underage year. But I remember Draper talking on draft night about like the memory of Lucas Raymond's hat trick against Russia in the gold medal game at this tournament against Yaroslav Oscar. And I do think that was something that the Red Wings, there's a ton of reasons that they liked Lucas Raymond, but one of them, I think, was that he really rose to the occasion when it got really tight at this tournament. And I don't remember completely this, but had Raymond had like a dominant tournament up to that point? Do you remember this? He was pretty good at the Holinka Gretzky.

In that summer, they had gotten to the gold medal game versus Canada, I believe, and had lost. but he was really good, but he wasn't outstanding. That tournament he was, him and Alexander Holtz were outstanding, and him particularly being the hero in that gold medal game on home ice there in Sweden. Yeah, and so I just think like that, you're making a great point, which is that teams want guys who they will project a rise to the moment for them and who they know. Ultimately, when they draft these guys,

they're doing it with basically being able to help them win playoff hockey games someday in mind. That's what these are. and this is the chance for all these players here to show that they're that kind of guy. It doesn't mean that they're not if they don't do it here, but it's an opportunity to show that they can be. They have that in them. And that is something really, really fun to look forward to here this last weekend. Yeah, I mean, you kind of look there in the round robin. Two guys come to mind.

Canada has a league against Chequia. They close a lead. Yeri Coolidge scores on an overtime, hat trick on the game. Almost the exact same thing happens with Yol Kim Kamel against Canada. unfortunately for our Canadian listeners, but to leads that they ended up choking up and losing an overtime and top prospects delivering in those big moments. Absolutely. So should be fun to watch a close out.

I'm still taking the Americans. What do you think? Not really a controversial opinion. I think it's hard to make a bet unless you give really good odds against them right now. All right. All right. Well, we'll take a break right there and we'll come back with a mailbag. All right, Corey.

Let's get into the mailbag now with some good questions today. The first one is from Drew Callum, who wants to talk about Jason Robertson, specifically whether you foresaw his emergence is very good to start top line winger. Like, did you see it happening this quickly and was a 40-goal season ever in the cards when he was drafted? Well, obviously, I did not see that. If I did, he would have been a, whatever, top five, top three, first overall type of guy on my list. And I think, I forgot where I had. I think he was about 20 to 35 or something like that.

I forget, to be quite honest. I did like him, I believe at the time. I just didn't like him as much as you probably should have. And I think that was this extent with most teams. It's why he was an early second round pick. It is that teams watched him, and he put up great numbers in Kingsend, great numbers. And he has size, and he seems to work hard, and he's a likable kid, and has all kinds of skill and scoring ability, but that skating was rough.

it's an ugly stride and still watching it even watching him in Dallas right now like you can argue maybe he's cleaning up a little bit but he's not exactly bringing the puck from from from zone to zone and he still kind of has like that gangly looking skating style but but man he's so skilled he's so smart he works he can has he has the scoring finishing abilities uh just obviously i didn't see that and I don't think almost anybody's not if they did kudos to them. And I think it's interesting with Robertson is it ignites the debate of, are you overrating skating? Just take the guy who scores a lot all the time.

And I hear that argument. I don't think it's unreasonable. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we overrate skating at times and look past really high degrees of talent when guys have. skating efficiencies. I would argue his was a significant one at the time, but one regardless. And I guess I would argue back to that sentiment. It's like there's a lot of examples over time where that same situation happens and the player doesn't pan out. He's the outlier. Again, it's why he was a second round pick. But it's an interesting debate, nevertheless, I think there's a lot

of NHL people I talk to who, when guys have been coming around, not just this season, But in the past couple of seasons, as it became, his last season, he also played very, very well. You're starting to hear people ask the argument, well, can this guy be the next Jason Robertson? I love the toolkit, but man, he doesn't skate that well. Yeah, I mean, ultimately that is, any prospect who's got a skating concern on him probably should be sending Jason Robertson a thank you letter for getting that talking point worked into what I'm sure team scouting meetings, right, along the same lines of what Alex DeBrinke has done for the five. nine or below a scoring winger, right? Right. But, you know, when Cole Coffield was coming up, the issue was,

who's an NHL comparable for Cole Coffield? And people say, well, the brink it. And it's like, okay, well, what's option B? Well, that's it. And that's kind of the issue with Lane Hudson right now in this year's draft, is I ask people around the league, well, who's his comparable? Who's the 5-8 defenseman who's not an elite skater that plays in the NHL and plays power play and takes a regular shift.

And I can't think of one, can you? Probably not at 5-8, no. I mean, you're asking probably like Tori Krug is probably, but he's a couple inches taller, I think. Krug is one I've thought of. People come back to me, and I don't know Krug as well as I probably should have, but people say he's sturdy, he plays hard, he's better defensively, all those things, although I do think Hudson plays hard.

And I think I like a skating more than you do. I know I think it probably comes down to the backwards versus forwards in zone thing, and that's fair. But I don't think his skating is a terrible concern. No, no, no. He's a good skater, but for 5-8, it's not elite feet. He's not a burner. Yeah, it's not Quinn Hughes. That's fair.

But I still like how he moves. So I like, I know you like lane, too. I'm not trying to paint you into a quarter there. No, no, I get it. Yeah. All right. On to the next one from Ben Petrie. Thoughts on Zach Bullduke's 50-goal season with the Quebec Ramparts, a single-ex.

Louis Blues' first round pick from last year. Thoughts on his season. Obviously, it's a great, great draft plus one. Right, but it didn't look like it was always going to go that way. He has the big underage here. I forget what it was with Ramoski. I think he had like 30 goals, a 16-year-old or something like. Exactly.

Then his draft he comes along, gets hurt a couple of times, doesn't have the big numbers. You know there's talent there, though. You've seen it in prior years. You've seen it in flashes in his draft season. He can skate. He's really skilled. He can shoot the puck really well.

to put up big numbers. Then the first half of the season starts, and he's still not putting up numbers. He was hovering just around like a point of game. The goals were good, but they weren't great in that first half. Ends up not getting even invited to Canada's your 20 camp in the winter after being a summer camp invite. You talk people around the queue, they're like, hey, I don't know if this one's ever going to work. And then that second half comes, and he just explodes. Once the season restarted there in the queue, this guy's been on.

a tear and he looks like everything you thought he was going to be when he was that 16 year old and when the blues picked him as a top 20 pick in his last year's draft. He's got the skill. He's got good vision. He can really shoot it. He plays with pace. The compete level is not always the best still, and I think it's a legitimate concern on him. But again, he's, I think in the first half, if you were a blues fan, I still had him on my U-23 list as a ticket-top prospect, but I had my kind of quite low and I think you look at this year right now and I think overall you're pretty happy with what you got. He's going to find himself in an interesting spot though here because as a player who's already scored 50 goals in that league, he's not AHL eligible yet next year, I don't

believe. So now it's going to be the eternal dilemma with that CHL-NHL agreement of do you put a guy who just scored 50 goals in that league back into it? Do you try to see if you can keep him around the NHL roster? How would you approach this here? I can't, he's got to go back because Jake Neighbors made that team last year. They didn't have a space. They sent him back. I think neighbors are going to be pushing to be on that team. I think you're going to send him back.

He's probably going to do it again. I'm going to have him play a big role on Canada's U-20 team in the winter. And following season, he could push. It's a blessing and a curse to go to a team that's as good as St. Louis is because the blessing is they're not going to have to rush you. You're probably not going to get that experience. But the downside is you're probably not going to get there quite as quick. as maybe you want.

And Quebec's going to be a MAMCup contender next year. That's true. And he'll get to play that role for a good team. And that's certainly a valuable thing. Moving on to Hockey Ninja, who says some seem very uncomfortable with the idea of picking your eye, Slavkovsky in the top five. Why is this? And how do you feel about this player?

I don't know that I've seen this one. I feel like people like Slavkovsky. Yeah, I guess, again, I don't want to, I don't know who these people are. But I guess, you know, you see the sentiment among the production. I think is usually the thing we hear is why do we have this guy rated second overall when he doesn't score like that? You look at

past second, third overall type of players in Liga, whether it's Patrick Lina, Alexander Barkoff, S. H.E.R.V., even some of the guys who weren't those high picks that ended up becoming really good players like a Mikamiko Rantonin

or others. They just produced at higher levels than this guy did. Which I think is a fair argument. It's a legitimately fair argument, although TPS, very good team. They went to the finals in league that didn't win, but they were one of the top teams in that league this season. And as the league went on into the second half, into the playoffs, his role kept getting

bigger on that team. And I think, but I think a big part of it just comes down to his international hockey. It's his holy Gretzky was great, as World Juniors, limited world juniors were very good. His Olympics were just outstanding. He played World Championships and a 16-year-old held up. World Juniors as a 16-year-old was very good there. It just seems like that's the crux of the argument to go with the toolkit. The toolkits why he's able to do all these things.

It's just all the attributes. Six-four, skilled, fast, can shoot it, can make plays. He looks like he's going to be a stud. I get the production. I do. But I just think, it's not like no production. Like I think we are just watching the NFL draft yesterday. The guy Trayvon Walker, who went first of the,

overall to Jacksonville. I think that was kind of the argument. He was like pure tools, no production. I think this guy is pure tools, pretty good production, even if it's not exceptional across the board. Well, and I think if you go and look at Slavkovsky's game logs, like you'll notice that ice time went up in the second half too as his production went up, but I don't know if it's a chicken or chicken or the egg situation, but it was 12 or 13 minutes, which is not nothing at the start of the year. But it's not a top team. Exactly. And you move into the later stretches of the year, I think March it was 16 plus minutes a night. And I think whether that's because, hey, he went to the Olympics and showed we have to play

him more or whether it's he produced more as he got more ice time. It's one of the two, I guess. Maybe it's both. But I think that's relevant to it when you talk about the production. Yep, no, I agree. And players, especially young players, develop different paces. And if they get better, the season goes on. And I would argue that happened in this case.

He's not exceptionally young. but he's a late March birthday too. I think that that's relevant to. We're not talking about one of the, like a late birthday here who, you know, you would have expected it to happen instantly or whatever. So, yeah, we'll move on to John D who says, would you give a one, this is a really good one. Would you give a one C skill grade to all the centers that play on the first line for their team? I doubt it.

And that's the issue. There are 32 players who are kind of quote unquote one C's in reality, yet their skill levels very wildly. I'm going to assume when he says one C skill grade, you have like a, a, a breakdown that has like a puck skill grade. I think he just means a 1C grade. Like you put him in the tier of a top line center. And it's a really good, really good point that he's making.

Yeah. And I think I would if I was actually doing that. I mean, with variations, I think the guys at the very, very bottom. You know, if you had to rank the top 32 centers in the NHL, there's probably a couple of them that are on the same team. And there's probably a couple of them, you know,

on one team that aren't on any individual team. That's just the way the math that's going to work. But I think for the most part, a lot of teams first line center, I would grade as a first line center. I guess it depends on what you mean by that. So what I mean is like, you know, when I grade Matthew Benitez as a first line center, and when I grade Logan Cooley as projected first line center,

in my head I'm thinking these are not projected superstars in the NHL. These are guys I think will be bottom half of that 32. in the league. But I think when you talk to team executives, team scouts, when they say, I want a first-line center, I feel like when they say that,

they're not talking about the 25th best center of the league. They're talking about Nathan McKinn. They're talking about Alexander Barkall. They're talking about Petrius Bergeron. They're talking about those guys who are monsters, guys who change their franchise. So I get where that's saying that, because I think when the diction

for a first line center tends to be like the superstar but i think i would still give a good chunk of those three to a high grade in that sense well and ultimately a lot of these teams are looking for two of these guys right like like you have you look at st louis when they won it and ryan o're riley i think is your classic one c i don't think you're going to find that an hlgm who says ryan o'rereilly can't be the one c on their cup contending team because he's already been it you've also got brayden shen who's probably more in that kind of coolly baneers mold right where You would call them a top line center, but they're playing that role as more of a really good 1B, basically, to a Ryan O'Reilly.

We're talking about when they won the cup or right now? Correct. When they won the cup, yeah. Because I was going to say, isn't Thomas their center right now? Yeah, no, for sure. But when they win the cup, I'm thinking, that's how I kind of think about these cup teams. It's like a lot of them have two of those guys. And maybe one's a upper half and one's a second half.

Maybe both are kind of second half, but it's having both of them that does it. Yep, no, I would tend to agree. Yeah, all right. moving on to the next one we've got Ryan Rosar who says are the Kings doing a good job developing their prospects they've had a good top prospect pool for a while

but few if any breakouts yet what do you think there I think it's I get what he's coming from is like you look at like their top prospects for several years and they haven't taken the huge step obviously we can talk about Alex Turcock

for a while if he wanted to and how he's not really taken the big stuff forward as a pro and you're still waiting for a guy like Quentin Byfield to really, really pop, although he was injured for a significant stretch of the season. But they made the playoff this season. And I didn't think they would, so I was wrong about that. And I think a big part of that was their young players. I mean, you had, you know, Mikey Anderson, when he's been healthy, it just, you know,

he wasn't outstanding this season, but mid-round pick who's turned into a regular NHL player to buy his Bjornfoot, he's made the team in a very young age and hasn't, look back. Sean Dersy was so good this season. I did not see this coming from Sean Dersie. I didn't think you got out on the American League, maybe play a couple of games here and there. I didn't think he was a great skater,

small defenseman, but just outstanding hockey sense. He's been, he was really impressive this season. Jordan Spence played a lot of games for them. He was really impressive as a pro this season. So, you know, I think there's a lot there to like. Yeah, you can talk about again, Turcotte,

you talk about Valardi. it's never a perfect track record, although I thought, among their top projects, I thought Callia had a very good season. I think he's progressing into being a true, really good top six forward over the course of his career. So, that's kind of why you get a ton of draft picks. It's why you need to get a lot of assets over a long period of time, because they're not all going to work. You know, Valardi may not always develop how you won, although he was very good in the American League this season. But if you get a lot of them, eventually you're going to run into Bjornfoot.

You're going to run to Jordan Spence. You're going to run to Sean Jersey. That's just how that process works. Callie have another guy who had the skating concern who maybe is doing some things for other guys in there. But you're right. I mean, I think a lot of times people look at development as just what happens in between when the player is drafted and when they set foot in the NHL. It's a process that goes longer than that.

It includes, I would say, your first few, if not more, years in the NHL, too. that's part of it. Not every guy has the exact same timeline or path there. I think that's important to remember. Evan Schaman says, how would you balance best player available versus positional need in the draft? A couple teams in the top 10 like Ottawa and Detroit, who needs centers, you don't say, would you go with a geeky Nazar or a Slavkovsky Eurocheck if they fall? You want to start here? You want me too. You could if you want. Yeah. So this is one that I've talked about with people really all year, because This is Detroit.

This is their situation. They badly need another kind of top center to pair with Dylan Larkin. And they do look like they're going to be in range where it's not going to be Shane Wright or Logan Cooley. And I think this is really going to be a draft defining question for them. I actually think Ottawa is in a little better center shape than they are with Norris and Stutzla. So, you know, but maybe they want to play somebody on the wing or whatever. There's a question whether Stutzel is a center or a wing, but I think he could be a center.

But yeah, yeah, that's Shane Pinto, too. Right. He's a good player. Yeah. So I think it's definitely, this is more Detroit-centered. Yeah. And to me, the answer is I think in this dynamic, right, if somehow Slavkovsky Eurochecks on the board, I think you still have to take them.

I think it's a question of the tier. If you have guys in the same tier, then I don't have a problem with you going for your position of need. But I think, you know, certainly on Corey's list, I think both of those two guys are at least one tier. Slvkovsky, I think, is like a, maybe it's like a half-tier thing because you break them out right now. But when you have them in those different groupings, you go with the guy who's in the grouping above.

And if you're in a tie break situation, I don't mind you going with positional need. But that's how I would look at it. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, obviously you can do certain things of the draft. You can trade up. You can trade down if you want to try to go up. If you want to try and go get Connor Geeky, because I think he will, he's got a good chance to be gone before the wings pick. So you can do that?

Then the question becomes, will a guy from that group get to where they are? Do you really want to go up to significant anesthesia? just to go get the center. You know, those are reasonable questions to ask. At the end of the day, if it gets to their pick and the best player available isn't a center, but it's close. I don't, I think people can overthink the best player available thing sometimes. And, you know, if it's just making something, making a scale up at a thin air,

if you have a scale of 1 to 10 and the guys, like, and your best player is an 8.8 and the center's an 8.6, and you really need the center. I don't think you're sacrificing that much by going towards a center. But if the margin is much greater than that, then you start asking, do we take this player, do we make a trade, try and get extra second, third round picks? We can maybe acquire center. Maybe it's Marco Casper. Maybe it's Frank Nazar.

Maybe it's Cutter-Gothia if you think he's a center. Those are reasonable directions to take. But I think it's, I generally don't hate teams that just go slightly off the board. Well, without, I don't always love using the term like value because I think it's sometimes hedge fundifies everything a little bit. as we've done in sports. But there is some element of like, okay, best player or like most valuable player and like, how do you scale those things? Because centers do like to get a equivalent center versus a wing is much more expensive in

the NHL. And I think especially when you talk about the D, you know, especially if, okay, so the Red Wings have picked two pretty good defensemen in the top, top 10 in the last few years. But if Eurocheck was there, I wouldn't sweat it because it's really expensive to get defensemen like Eurocheck. And Slavkovsky obviously. is even rated even higher than that. But let's say that the winger was more of like a Camel,

who I think you could certainly have above Nazar. And who was the other one that they mentioned? Oh, they mentioned Kiki. But let's say it's like a Marco Casper. Like I would have less of a problem going with the center over the wing than I would, who maybe isn't a slight tier above, than I would the defenseman, because the defenseman, I think, is still,

every bit as costly and hard to find on the open market. Yep. I mean, I had one general manager tell me once that. He thinks the goal of the draft is to get the type of players that you can't get in the open market, which is basically what you just said right there. And that manager tended to prioritize centers and defensemen in his draft. I think when I rank, I usually say tie goes to the center of the defenseman. If it's them versus a wing, I probably wouldn't move a guy up a tier just because he's the position.

Yep, I think that's a good philosophy. Cody Fennell, seeing a lot of draft areas. analyst step up for Gleb Tricosov. Am I saying that right? Yes. Some ranking him in the top five. I'm wondering if you go over his pros and cons in your opinion. I don't know that I've seen a ranking with him in the top five, so I'll just put that there. But yeah, what do you think of Tricosov there? Yeah, I get a lot of questions about him. So I think this was a good one to ask it. He's had a very good year in junior with Avengarde's MHL team, highly productive, really good playoffs. He's a winger with size, very good puck skills, very good offensive creativity, you know, can shoot it very well.

Skating's fine, I would say. It's not bad, but it's not a strength. Compete's probably average two. Reminds me a lot of, in style and because of where they play, it reminds me of the Pavl Dorofi of Kit that Vegas took a couple years ago, who I also kept getting a lot of questions about because he scores a lot in that league, which is a good league, but it's not an exceptional league. And he looks like a good prospect for Vegas. He played some games this year. Productively in the American League.

Wouldn't come a top prospect, but he's a good prospect. And that's kind of the same way I view Trigger Zavis. Very skilled. Has a good toolkit. Needs a little bit more pace, energy in his game overall. I see him take some off nights that you wouldn't want to see. But he's a good prospect. I think he'll be a second and a third round pick.

Don't see a first rounder later. And then last one, just in case we didn't stir up enough drama with our best fast food burger question. Callum Kemlow wants to know our favorite breakfast cereal. This is our people who's going to find out that I truly am just the most boring person ever because honestly, mine is Cheerios. All right. So my favorite one, I don't have much cereal anymore. But the favorite one I ever had is actually discontinued. Did you ever try the alphabet cereal?

I don't think so. I'm not like a big breakfast guy in general, but no, I haven't. No, I used to have that crap a lot. And it's like, you know, like, I love the, I don't eat every, each cereal ever. So if I do it's the shirry shit, it's like stuff like that stuff like frosted flakes. Like, you know, like, those are good. Stuff that they're, they're amazing, but it's just, I don't ever have like, if I'm going to have a healthy breakfast, it's going to be, you know, a healthy breakfast. I'm not going to pour a bowl of Cheerios.

But those were the ones that, that come to my. Again, like those, the fruit loops, the frosive flakes, but alphabets, like those, those hit hard. Like, yeah, those are good breakfast. I don't think, I think they got discontinued. Again, I don't know. I don't buy breakfasts aeros anymore, but I thought it was important that we answered this question. Yeah, the only series I have are Cheerios and rice checks in the house, and I just treat them both, like, like, 2 p.m. My girlfriend's in the office shaking her at me right now.

But I just treat them like 2 p.m. snacks. I almost never eat breakfast. But I do like frosted flakes. I probably should have thought of that and maybe would have sounded a little less, a little less boring on the podcast today. Well, that's because you wake up at 11, so you miss breakfast every day. I will, yeah, that actually, that's absolutely true. I think it's really more like 10, 10, 15.

I got to make it to morning skate. But yeah, that's a fact. All right. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show's prospect series. You can subscribe to the athletic audio plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from our entire network. They're going to start you with a 30-day free trial, and then it's just 99 cents a month after that. Right now, you can subscribe to The Athletic for $1 a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show.

So do that, and we'll talk to you soon.