The Athletic Hockey Show - Thanksgiving is traditionally decision time for struggling NHL teams, Doug Armstrong's St. Louis Blues get their groove back and Bill Daly on the state of the NHL at the quarter mark of the season

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Jesse Granger and Mike Russo are joined by guest co-host Joe Smith this week on the Thanksgiving edition of the roundtable. The boys discuss the red hot St. Louis Blues who had lost 8 in a row before reeling off 7 straight victories and are joined by Blues General Manager Doug Armstrong and find out what exactly is working in St. Louis now.The roundtable stick taps Bruins captain Patrice Bergeron for reaching 1000 career points, Cale Makar becoming the fastest defensemen to reach 200 career points and the red hot role that Erik Karlsson has been on in San Jose.Plus, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly joins Jesse and Mike to provide an update on league issues, as the quarter poll arrives in the NHL season.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowDon't miss our Black Friday sale, happening now until November 28th. Get a 1 year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. All right, welcome to another Wednesday roundtable edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Jesse Granger in Vegas, along with Michael Russo in Minnesota, and our guest co-host Joe Smith in Minnesota. How are you guys doing? Doing well. Really well. Living the dream, man.

How about you? Doing good. I'm filling in for Rob Pizzo. He is at the Veneer Cup, which, look, I've learned a lot about university, Canadian in university sports writing stories on Logan Thompson. I had no idea about it. But I do know the veneer can up is Canada's football university championship this week. Rob's out covering that.

Our guests this week, we've got two of them lined up. We're going to have NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. And later on, we're going to get Doug Armstrong, St. Louis Blues general manager, Doug Armstrong on. Joe is going to be traveling for Thanksgiving. We're going to talk to Doug tomorrow. So Joe won't be on that. but we're all going to talk some hockey here on Tuesday night.

Starting off with Thanksgiving coming up, like I mentioned. And I feel like Thanksgiving is an unofficial holiday in the NHL. We all look at it. There's the stat, 77% of teams that are in playoff position on Thanksgiving end up in playoff position when the season ends. And the GMs kind of look at this as a benchmark for when it's time to panic or when it's time to feel maybe a little bit different about a team that you didn't expect to do well. As we reach this holiday, who are you guys, I guess, what team are you guys most worried about?

We'll start with you, Michael. Most worried about? Man, I mean, like one team that I thought that was going to be right there at the end this year was Ottawa. I thought this was going to be a team that was going to fight for a playoff spot. And they were, you know, one of the worst teams in the NHL. They're losing by multiple goals every single night. The tension is clearly ratcheting up there. another team that has just been miserable of late, especially on the road, is the Washington

Capitals in the Eastern Conference. They just look like they're getting super old, super quick. Darcy Kemper is realizing he's not in Colorado anymore. Those are two teams from the Eastern Conference that really concern me right now. Joe, how about you in the West? Yeah, I mean, Vancouver, I mean, not that people thought that they'd be the greatest team in the league, but they're clearly struggling, and it's been a year, since when the started the year, pretty much struggle.

I like a lot of questions about whether Bruce Brudros in the finish the year or not. But that's a team that has more talent than the record indicates. I also thought Washington, too, especially in that metropolitan division where you have the devils clearly on fire. The Carolina has to be there in the end, even like the Rangers out of a playoff spot technically, if you look at it right down in that division. So the caps for me were surprised. I picked Ottawa as the team to surprise make the playoffs in our early season projection. So I was also wrong on that front.

But lots of watch here early on. I feel like a lot of these teams that are struggling early, you can point to a reason that they will come back. Like Washington, for example, like they're clearly injured. I covered a team last year that was injured and they never got healthy. And I feel like those things snowball. And to me, Washington reminds me a lot of the Vegas roster because it's a big, heavy roster full of veteran players. Like sometimes those things don't just, you just don't ever get healthy and you can never really feel yourself. I'm seriously worried about Washington and their ability. to come back and be a playoff team.

I think we were all looking for who could possibly drop out of last year's playoffs. Like you said, we were expecting Ottawa to make a jump. Who are they going to pass? I think Washington is clearly a team. Is there a team out there that's not in the playoffs that you think it's not time to worry about right now? Like this deadline means absolutely nothing for them? I think the Oilers are one team that I think is going to wind up there at the end.

I just have trouble believing that Seattle is going to make the playoffs and that the Oilers aren't going to figure out a way to get. in there. One team, how fascinating is that Jesse and Joe that for the last two, three weeks we've been sounding the alarm on the St. Louis Blues and here none of us picked them as a team to worry about because they've

suddenly won seven in a row and are in a playoff spot. Isn't it crazy how quickly things can change in the NHL? That's one team that I think that I wouldn't worry about. I still think Florida's a team that's going to figure it out at some point. Pittsburgh I've seen recently. I don't

think they're very good. But Florida's a team that I just don't buy that they're not going to figure it out. You know, in that another team that we haven't mentioned, Joe, shockingly, that we're not, that I'd be concerned about is Minnesota, by the way. This just doesn't seem like a team that is going to, you know, reel off a bunch of wins in a row. You know, lots of injuries, lots of, you know, trying to reshuffling the deck to figure out what they have in the lineup. And right now, they're not in a playoff spot, only a couple points out.

But it just doesn't feel like this is the same team that I covered the last, They're two that they're trying to find their identity still, right? I mean, and they've had injuries. Ryan Hartman's not coming back anytime soon. That's a big blow. Their number one center last year at three, three goals. So you haven't, Sam Stills are number one center right now, and Marco Rossi is getting scratched.

It's just a weird time for the Minnesota Wild where other teams in their division are pick up points and get better. And so unless they have that outscoring their problems like they did last year and have those miracle wins or those comeback from the wins that you really haven't seen maybe until Saturday night. Yep. One of the teams that I think had a little bit of a slow start, they've certainly picked things up now. I don't think anybody was worried about him was the Colorado Avalanche.

And defenseman, Kail McCar, has not had a slow start to this season or his career. He's the fastest defenseman to reach 200 points, and it did not take him long at all. What impresses you most about him, Michael? Well, I mean, you know what, Ashley, this is the first thing that popped in my mind that's going to make everybody laugh, is his defensive play is so much better than when I remember when he first came in the league during the playoffs. couple years ago. That guy battles. He is a competitor on the defensive side of the puck, which allows him to be so creative and dynamic on the offensive side of the puck. And, you know, I almost think it's laughable. If you think about it, until he got to Europe, he didn't score a goal. And everybody was like,

what's going on with Cal McCar? And now you look at him right now. He's just gobbling up points left and right. He just, he needed that proverbial seal to absolutely be taken off. And now the points are coming every single night. You know, Joe and I obviously were at the Stanley Cup final. The one thing that struck me is that even the Nathan McKinnons of the world say that he's the most important player on that team, that he's the most valuable player on that team, and that, you know, you could get by without a Landisog, maybe now and then. You can get by it without a McKinnon or Rantan for a short period of time, but you take McCar off that lineup, and they're a very, very different-looking team. He is that important. Reminds me of kind of like

in Tampa Victor Hedman, like John Cooper always says, as Hedman goes, we go, in a similar way with Calado with McCar. And so I think he just does everything well. He has that presence about him. He has that threat where if you're game planning against the Colorado Avalanche, you got him to worry he's at the ice every single time because he can change the game in an instant. And laughing at this now, do our until 99 stories. I was just laughing and I think that he might have been on there

with the way he started his career. You know, how many of those guys would you how many guys wouldn't you take over him? But yeah, just impressive start to his career, which is going to be a long and successful one, I think. Definitely. That transitions us perfectly into the next topic, which is another one of these defense

and that as he goes, his team goes, the sharks just blew the doors off the senators the other night, five to one. And Eric Carlson is doing ridiculous things again. I think we weren't sure if he'd ever do this again. It's pretty clear. He's back to 100%. He's got 30 points already this season on a team that's not scoring a lot of goals.

So this isn't just him racking up the points just for being on the ice. I mean, he is driving the offense in San Jose. What have you guys noticed about his resurgence? We'll start with you, Joe. Well, just health can do amazing things. right and just both physically and mentally I think he's doing things that he didn't feel comfortable doing last couple of years just with his skating was always been his strength his hockey IQs has been his strength and people forget like four or five years ago he won't arguably the best

player in the national hockey league you know forward or defenseman and so I think you're seeing glimpses of that now and for a guy who's obviously had an illustrious career and won a couple norris trophies I think it's fun to see guys having career rebounds where they probably thought people thought they might be pretty much on the tail end of their career. For him to have a rebound like this, it's got to be a lot of fun for not only Sharks fans, but fans are on the league. Or fantasy owners, too.

Yeah, especially fantasy owners. He has 23 points in his last 12 games. You know, you mentioned, though, like he had a 4-point night the other night, and they still lost that game to Detroit. Like, he is about the only thing right now that really makes the Sharks at times watchable. I mean, obviously, we've seen, you know,

Tima Meyer and things like, that, but that team is still a real work in progress and they don't have a lot coming as well. But, you know, Carlson looks to me to be as dynamic as ever, and it's coming at a good time because, you know, you know, Mike Greer is trying to suddenly float his name out there as somebody that they can maybe move, and I think they would still love to get out of that albatross of the contract, and I have him as a $10 million player. So we'll see what happens there, but he is certainly making Mike's job a little bit easier because I got to think everybody's going to start looking at Carlson very differently than they did a couple years ago.

Can you imagine a return to Ottawa? Can you imagine a Carlson back in Ottawa situation? I mean, not that he could fit their cap situation. I don't know, he might. And that might be one of the only places he'd waive is no move clause for, right? I think we talked about this last week, but like he's sitting pretty in the Bay Area. It's got this contract. It's up to him whether he wants to move or not.

I think Ottawa might be one of the rare situations where he would say, you know what, but I mean, the team's got to do better, right? The team has to win some games in order to make that even an option. I don't know what's going on with that team right now, by the way. I mean, this, like, you know, I don't, like, we saw them about a month ago in Ottawa. And, you know, they just looked to me like a team that had all the elements to be this rising team that could actually make an impact this year with a little coaching. And, you know, as I mentioned a couple weeks ago, I mean, they do some funky stuff coming out of their zone. You still look at some of the talent that they have in their lineup and how good they should be,

and it's just not coming. And you just feel like there is now suddenly pressure. And I know that Pierodorian came out a couple weeks ago and totally gave a vote of confidence for G.J. Smith and said that it's premature to even talk about his job. But at some point something's going to have to give because there was a ton of expectations on that team. And even though there's still a rising team with a lot of young talent, and you go out and get Giroux and DeBrinck it and Talbot, you're doing it in part because the rebuild is over and it's time to start winning. And right now they're doing no winning.

But is starting over really doing anything? And like we saw Brady Kachuk come out this week and say it's on the players. Like he supported DJ Smith and basically said, we don't need a coaching change. We need to play better. And to me, it's like you hire this guy because you think he can coach this hockey team to win. And like let these people do their jobs a little bit, right? Like if you're just restarting over and over and over again. I think it's tough to say a coach isn't going to be able to get this hockey team around after 20 games or after even a season. Like I don't part of me said like I totally see why he'd be on the hot seat. But part of me and it seems like the owner and the players agree in this is like maybe maybe if we just give these guys more time to do their jobs, I feel like

the NHL is becoming the ultimate quick trigger fire a coach immediately as soon as just as a quick fix. Joe, what do you think? No, I agree. And I think there's, you know, the successful organizations are on the league, and a lot of them have longevity and stability from their GM to coaching staff. I covered his team in Tampa that the longest senior coach and GM has been around that organization for 12 years.

Not that Coom Cooper was ever on the hot seat, other than maybe after the 2019 sweep to Columbus, but he had won with that team for several years. So I think that there's a lot of changes in Ottawa, a lot of expectations in Ottawa. Ownership situations, very fragile. They're trying to figure that out. A lot of going on with that team.

where sometimes it takes a little longer that people think for that kind of gel and mix as a team. You'd have all these great individual stars, but for them to work together as a team, it doesn't always take, you know, it takes more than 20 games for that to happen. So maybe they'll have that patient, maybe those votes vote of confidence from Brady Kichuk

and from Pierre Dorian will pay off. Though here we are at Thanksgiving. Isn't it amazing? There's been no coaches fired in the National Hockey League. It's crazy to me. I mean, Bruce Boudreau has been on the firing line for about three weeks now. So, yeah, it just feels like nothing.

happening. It definitely does. It's strange. Another news note, we saw Shane Wright, Seattle Cracken, are going to send him down to the HL for a conditioning stint. From what I, from what it sounded like, from Elliot Friedman and those national guys, it sounded like they've been wanting to do this for a while, but you have to play it, you have to be scratched for five games in a row, and he did play that one game in the middle, so they had to sit him for another five games in order to send him down. You guys wrote a story on Shane Wright recently. What do you think the future holds for him? I know there's the world juniors coming up and there's questions of whether he's going to play for that. What do you think this ultimately means them sending him down to the HL and how do you think this

ends? Well, I do think that's the future. You know, the one game in the middle happened to be Minnesota and when they didn't play him that night, you wondered if they were going to do this or if they were just trying to, you know, design a part in their minor league schedule to send him to where he can get the maximum, you know, maximizes his time, you know, with, with, with the team there. They're in Palm Desert, aren't they?

In, I believe, Palm Springs area. You know, we both, like I talked to Joe and I double team that story a couple weeks ago, and I talked to Shane, and he was very, very adamant, as all players are, that they want to stay in the national hockey league, that this is the best place for them to develop, that he doesn't want to go back to juniors. But if he's not going to play every single night, there's going to come a point where they're going to have to figure out a way to get him

some ice time. And one way to do that is to send him to Team Canada and have him playing the world juniors. So then make a decision after that on what you're going to do. Are you going to bring it back to the National Hockey League? Or are you going to maybe see if he can go back and play major juniors? That actually happened with Matt Dumba here in Minnesota once, where he was on the team, the first 13 games. He got some scratches there. They assigned him to Team Canada. And eventually he was sent back to juniors right after the tournament. And it makes a lot of sense if he's not going to get ice time. I don't think that you want him just sitting all year long.

But this is, you know, the one thing that I do find laughable from a critics point of view is the people that are just saying that they're ruining this kid. He's 18 years old. If you think that a Hall of Fame center in Ron Francis and Dave Haxdahl, who has coached a lot of young guys, not just in the National Hockey League, but in his time coaching college hockey at University of North Dakota is going to, you know, not have a development plan for this kid as important as he is. I just think it's just laughable. And so, you know, I really do. trust that they know what they're doing and that you're trying to do what's best for for shane in the long haul yeah and you talk to guys in that room veteran players from eberle to yani gourd and they love the kid they think he doing all the right things the attitude is there that the skill they can see that in flashes

is there but not everybody can come into the league and and and like kind of mac david and tear it up so i think for him this is probably always in the plan back of the mind for the seattle cracking like knowing if this if he didn't show right away that he was ready to do it then they would just kind of take their time give him a game here or there let him practice to the team and then this could be an option where they could do the couple weeks straight on playing top line minutes in the H.L. Then go back to World Juniors and you can get, you know, his feels back and get his confidence back. Then all of a sudden, maybe he's a different decision when he comes back from World Junior. Maybe he's a different player. Maybe the team's a different situation. So part of what Seattle

had going for them too was they were winning hockey games. And they need to win hockey games this year and to put out a better lineup that you wanted to win games. It wouldn't involve Shane right, at least at this point. So we'll see what happens after the Christmas break, most likely, I think, for this situation. All right. Good stuff, guys. And it looks like we are ready to be joined by NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. And we are happy to be joined by NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. Thanks for joining us, Bill. My pleasure, guys. Happy to be here. And I think we'll start it off with, we all saw the emotional ceremony that they had in Toronto for Boya Salming. And you just came back from Sweden. You were there last week. They had the 100th anniversary of the Swedish Ice Hockey

Federation. And you were able to present Boria with the NHL Honor. Award. He just talked about that and what that moment was like for you. Yeah, it was a pretty emotional experience similar to what happened at Scotia Bank on the weekend, Friday and Saturday night. You know, the Swedish anniversary was 100 years and they had about 900 kind of dignitaries on the floor for a gala dinner and then let the public in and filled the lower bowl. So there was probably about 4,000 people in the building. And Boria was there with his wife and family, his two daughters and two sons, came out and accepted the award.

There was a rousing, standing ovation, a lot of motion in the building. It was quite the moment. I was obviously thrilled to be a part of it. Bill, you know, last June, you got to actually hand out the Stanley Cup, which I think is the first time in your life. And, you know, I was, I was staring during that. And I was thinking, you could see the pride in your face being able to do that. And then you get to go to these, these Hall of Fame induction ceremonies. And you get to see so much in your role as Deputy Commissioner National Hockey League.

What is it like when you go to these big events compared to just the nitty gritty that none of us get to see behind the scenes of when you, You're negotiating contracts and CBAs and all the stuff that sometimes creates unbelievable stress in your life. Well, there are obviously a lot of perks involved in my job, which I certainly appreciate and are very cognizant of. And that's going to games, meeting great people who are in this sport and doing fun things. that I love doing. So all of that is very gratifying at the end of the day. But as you say, Mike, there's a lot of other aspects of my job, a little more taxing.

And they probably take up the bulk of my time. Bill, speaking of big events that people are looking forward to is the World Cup. And I know fans and players alike, kind of while we're waiting on that front, I know it's been delayed a year. the idea floated on Hockey Night in Canada regarding a Canada, U.S. series, maybe bringing the women to maybe since September or so. Are there some alternatives, maybe you guys can explore as a league to get that best on best in some other way that either U.S. and Canada can be part of?

Well, I mean, we've given some thought over time. We and the Players Association both have brainstormed over time with respect to various competition formats that we might be able to roll out. in different scenarios. And part of, you know, I just read about the one that was proposed over the weekend. You know, my concern with a competition format like that is, it's somewhat exclusionary to, you know, 30% of our player base in the sense that, sure, you know, probably 70% of our player base is

is U.S. or Canadian board, but there's still a 30% that are not. And I certainly wouldn't want to be in a competition format that excludes those great players and those great countries who participate in the National Hockey League every night and help make us great. I've heard some of the players mention how disappointing it is. If everyone understands why we aren't having the World Cup of hockey, and I don't think anybody's arguing that we should under the current conditions. But I guess how, what's the reaction been like for you guys? Have players, I guess, have you felt how disappointed players are?

And then does it kind of make you excited for maybe how excited players will be when you can eventually do something like that? Do you feel like there's there's a real excitement around the players for eventually when it does happen? Well, well, certainly we know, you know, we're very interested and we know our players are very interested in getting back to best on best international. competition at the earliest possible date. That includes World Cups, but it also includes Olympic participation.

We know there's a sense of disappointment. Certainly we're disappointed that we're not able to roll forward with the World Cup on the original schedule. But to their credit, you know, the players felt like similar to what I said before, that if the Russian players in our league can't participate, that it's not a tournament, that they want to participate in. And that's real credit to them, thinking big picture and world view. And we certainly share that view.

We hope we can turn the page on the conflict sooner rather than later. Obviously, a lot of unknowns and uncertainties and don't know when that will be. But as soon as we are able, we'll certainly be ready to fire this up. Bill, I was just thinking about how it was at the GM's meetings in March night before it ended that Eugene Melnick passed away, the owner, long-time owner of the Ottawa Senators. What is the latest with the Ottawa Senators situation? Obviously, they've been in the news a lot lately. And Ryan Reynolds, it seems like, wants to be part of a group that could bring new ownership to the Senators. What is the latest there?

Have you actually been in contact with Ryan Reynolds? The answer is yes. We have been in contact with Ryan. He's an incredibly cool guy, very insightful, very passionate, very enthusiastic. It is a big lover of hockey and NHL hockey in particular. And I certainly hope and think it would be great if he could be a participant in a in a winning bidder for for ottawa with respect to the process more broadly um it's really just starting um galeado sports partners is is running the process um you know a retained third party

expert who's done a lot of these sales um they'll proceed in a very professional way the the one thing uh that that melnick uh girls made clear uh eugene's daughters made clear is that they want this franchise to be successful in Ottawa and to operate and play in Ottawa. And that would be one of the ground rules that we're working on there. But other than that, we've basically, they've basically just opened the doors. And I guess the gratifying part, there seems to be a lot of interest early on here. And obviously that speaks to the senators, but I think it speaks to the vibrancy of NHL hockey as well. So we'll see where the process goes, but we've got a ways in front of us.

Bill, obviously the Bruins took some criticism for their decision to sign Mitchell Miller, maybe the lack of due diligence on their part in the family, and they'd be reaching out to you guys at least beforehand too. Do you guys say anything to the GM meetings, a message to the group on maybe how to handle it going, these kind of things going forward? And what was the lesson you think people should take away from this from a league perspective or a team perspective when going through these types of signings? Well, I don't think we address the Mitchell Miller situation specifically, but we did make the

managers aware that obviously we're here and in situations where there's any concern or hesitancy or potential questions with respect to a particular signing or player acquisition. We're happy to be a sounding board and a resource. And, you know, obviously that people, you know, or clubs and personnel at clubs should be focused on those issues and certainly be free and willing to reach out to us. Bill, one of the biggest business, I guess, issues this season talk around the NHL has been the Arizona Coyotes Arena. There was a lot of optimism from you and from Gary before the season about how maybe this would be this situation that they found themselves in would be there were some positives to it. Now that we've seen a few games

in there, how are things from your perspective? And is there any update on a potential new arena for the Coyotes? Yeah, I think the reviews of the Mollett Arena have been very, very positive, both from the visiting teams that have played there, the players that have played there. I understand that the ice condition is, ice conditions are great. The intimacy of the facility is great, the fans on top of the action, and quite frankly having a full building and generating even more revenue than they were generating in their old building are all positives. You know, more broadly, obviously this club needs a new facility.

They have plans for that new facility in Tempe. They've received the preliminary approvals they need from the Tempe City Council in terms of supporting that. There are additional hurdles that lay ahead. But hopefully, we're all hopeful that those will move quickly and they'll get the assurances that they need in the short term to begin. and work on that new facility. Bill, just going back to the Miller situation, what is the next steps from this process? And obviously, you know, he's not eligible to play, at least currently in the National Hockey League.

They've made it attention that they're not going to have him signed. So what is now, what are the steps there that Boston needs to do to potentially either terminate his contract or buy him out or whatever? Well, ultimately, that's a Boston determination. and I certainly wouldn't interfere in their decision-making process. I do know that they're currently evaluating their options and the situation. I don't think they've made any decisions at this point in time. But other than that they don't believe that the player has a future with their club,

what they end up doing with respect to the contract and contractual relationship is really up to them. Bill, I'm sure you've seen with the NBA does this a lot where they stagger their game times on certain nights where there's a busy slate of schedule. I was wondering if you guys ever thought of that, too, from the NHL perspective, when you have a ton of games on one night to, by 15 minutes or so, kind of stagger them a little bit to get some more time for guys, people who watch them. Yeah, I mean, obviously we do stagger as a regular practice during our playoff scheduling. We also staggered during the regular season to a certain extent. I think you have to be cognizant of the balancing that staggering comes with because I think we are focused on the in-market fan experience. And, you know, those fan bases have expectations with respect to traditional start times that are sometimes difficult to change. Not all the time.

So I think you do it, you pick your spots. You do where it totally makes sense to do. And then where, you know, you want to give a bias toward the hometown fans, you might not do it. So I think it's a balancing act to a certain extent, but we obviously see the value in doing it where it makes sense to do it. We've spoken to a few GMs about the meetings and how they went and the decision not to modify the coaches offside review or the puck over the glass. What are your overall thoughts just from the GM meetings? And do you think that those issues are pretty settled that they're going to stay how they are for now? Yeah, I believe they are.

I mean, I think the reaction, there was a brief discussion in particular on whether there should be a return from a two-minute penalty to a loss of a timeout on some challenges. I think it was pretty overwhelming that the group felt like the rule should stay the same as it could. currently is, that there was a reason that the change was made and the reason has actually proved successful. So I don't think there was a whole lot of support for changing that. With respect to puck over the glass, that's something we've debated for probably 10 years. And the biggest challenge on the puck over the glass is we find that the video replay often doesn't really clarify the situation all that much. There are very few times you'll get a different. definitive view on video that is any better than the view that the four on ice officials

have on top of that play. So instead of introducing something that would certainly delay the game for, you know, a small squeeze, perhaps, the thought process is, let's not do that. Bill, obviously, the global games are back on. We've seen games in Europe and Asia. There's been lots of reports lately that the league is investigating. potentially playing games in Australia. I know one team that would love to be in that type of game. What is the latest with that?

And is that something that actually is feasible? Well, I certainly think it's feasible for sure. There's been interest in Australia for a number of years now with respect to potentially hosting NHL teams. I think if we were to pursue that, I think we pursue it at least initially on a pre-season. season basis, a portion of training camp and perhaps two exhibition games in Australia. It's an intriguing possibility, certainly not in a position to rule it out.

So it may be more likely than not that it happens, but there's no done deal yet. And if it does happen, I mean, could you see as early as next season, or are we talking a little time away? It could be. That might be a little aggressive, but certainly, I wouldn't rule that out at this point. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Bill.

We appreciate you covered pretty much everything here. We hopped around to a bunch of topics, but we always appreciate the time and your insight. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you having me. Thanks, Bill. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving to all who are celebrating.

All right. Thanks to Bill Daly for joining us. That was good stuff, guys. Coming up next, we are going to be joined by the GM of the hottest team in the Western Conference, Doug Armstrong, GM of the St. Louis Blues, and Joe's going to rejoin us for Rapid Fire. I like it. Joe Smith is going to pull a Roberto Luongo and head to the bathroom for the entire break. See after the whole entire holiday. We'll see after the holidays.

And we are joined on the athletic hockey show by St. Louis Blues, General Manager, Doug Armstrong. Thanks for coming on, Doug. Thanks for having me. Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah, to you as well. it's been an interesting year for the Blues so far. You obviously start a couple good games, eight game losing streak, and now they're on a seven game winning streak. What's it been like for you as a manager? And then what have you noticed the biggest difference, I guess, in this last seven games when the team turned things around? Well, I thought we got off to a good start. We played a really good game at Edmonton, and then we played them a couple of games later and had an excellent game. We lost by a goal, empty netter after. So I felt we were in a good spot. And then

things just start to spiral and we came out of it, you know, won some good games on the road, came back, got outplayed pretty badly by Washington and found a way to win. And those are games you're finding a way to lose, which was a good sign when you win that's not supposed to win. That means you're turning the corner. And we backed up with a couple of good wins. So we're in a good spot right now. We've sort of worked a way back into that that conglomerate in the middle of the NHL now,

which is 25 teams probably and we're into that mix now and it's going to be an interesting push. Yeah, uh, Tuggett just it shows you how quickly things can change in the national hockey league, but it's not often that you could lose eight in a row and follow it up with a seven game, uh, winning streak and hopefully tonight make it eight for you guys. Um, you know what I'm curious about though is you, and you've done this before where you'll, there's just a point in a season where maybe you'll step in front of the media and just tell it like it is. And, and I just curious on how you decide as a GM, when's probably a good time to maybe one, address the team, but then to go in front of the media and really talk honestly and candidly about the situation at hand.

Yeah, there's certainly no playbook on when you want to do that. But what I felt on this situation was that we lost five in a row and listening to the postgame comments from the coaches and the players, it was like Groundhog Day. You know, and it felt like I think it was Bull Durham or Major League, you know, God willing, one day at a time in speech. I think guys were getting tired of hearing that. And I thought it was important to give the media, maybe a break from the players,

and the players a break from the media for a day. And then also let them know that we were only 10% into the season and the sky wasn't falling, that we had a lot of time. But also that time goes quickly, too, that there was emergency into our situation. And also, I want to make sure that I showed my support to Craig. Usually, Roos, what happens in these situations, you find that, okay, things aren't going good. So they go to the first lowest common denominator, which is the coach of what's going to change.

And he wasn't going anywhere. And I wanted to make sure that he knew that. And that if things didn't turn around, that wouldn't be brought up as the solution number one. And I give the players a ton of credit. And what I said to the guys at the time and to our media is that these players have done a lot for my career. Obviously, they made the decade just a joy to be around. and I want to give them every opportunity to get out of this and sort of extend, you know, we've had 10 or 11 good years.

You want to extend that to 12, 13, 14. At some point, you're going to have to go through a little bit of a re-whatever the term is these days. And we don't want to do that right now. And all the credit goes to the players and the staff, the coaching staff to get these guys back on track to where we're in that group of players that you're in one day, out one day. But a few wins put you in a good spot. Can I just ask you one thing, a follow-up on that is how alarming after you had that conversation when I think you lost three more games after that, where you were giving up a lot of goals there? Was that concerning to you that, wow, maybe it just didn't work and I will have to start to dig into the roster? Yeah, I thought we played a decent game in Boston, you know, put us to the long list of teams that got beat by the Bruins at home.

But we really didn't play well the next night in Philly, and that was a little bit concerning. I know we were tired, but I thought we would have a better effort. And then to the guy's credit, they came home, sort of got an ugly win against San Jose. And then that sort of turned things around. But yeah, we weren't, you know, we were, you know, if you look at the underlying stats, we were bad offense, well, bad defense, only and bad special teams. That usually puts out to a poor record. And that's not who we think we are or who we believe we are.

And I give the guys a ton of credit for putting their best foot forward. recently. And looking at the schedule now, you try and find games are okay. You can breathe. There are no breathable games anymore in the NHL. And so tonight's a Buffalo team that got off their skid last night in Montreal. And that would be a good test. And we go down to Florida, which is always difficult. So every time you think you maybe gave yourself a little breathing room, you look at the schedule and say it's probably not tonight. You've alluded to the parody a couple times. You mentioned the conglometer of teams. It feels like there's 25 teams in the middle. In the Central Division, there's seven points right now between first and sixth place. What does that do for you as a general manager?

Because I feel like there's some value in knowing where you are in the league and where you stand. And it just feels like there's so much parity in the league right now. It's kind of hard to tell where you're at. Does that affect the way you evaluate your team? And then how do you kind of get around that with the teams just playing so evenly right now? Well, a couple of things that I've noticed this year is that the teams that have been rebuilding have gotten there quicker than the top teams are going down. And so that's pushing everybody into the middle. You have Boston, which is a perennially great team. They're there again. Now you have a team like Jersey that's on an unbelievable heater right now. And then you have a, even the team that the bottom now aren't

that far away. So you have 25, 26 teams are relatively the same. And I think it's going to be like that for a couple of years. So what you want to try and do is extend your good streaks longer and then nip those bad streets quicker. And I also think that it's not parity in the league. It's the style of playing the league has changed. And I think when you're, you know, I've been in the NHL now 30 years, it's coming to grips with the new reality of teams not protecting leads the way they did at one point.

They're all looking to extend the lead. and the problem when you extend the lead, you take chances and chances sometimes open your net and you allow teams back into it. I think the younger players are more apt to playing offense all the time, and I'm getting used to watching that. It's not as easy on the coaches and the managers to watch that style of hockey because there's an art form

to playing defense and understanding the time and the clock and the score. And it seems right now that the time and the clock and the score don't meet as much to the competitors on the ice as they do, the coaches of matters off the ice. Doug, you know, I went to the Blues Vegas game a couple weeks. So I think that might have been your second win in this streak. And I thought Jordan Bennington was unreal. You know, he gave up the one goal, I think, to Kessel coming in over the blue line. But then in the third period, he was just absolutely sensational. I just wanted to ask you about his season, you know, what did you make of his preseason comments about losing his motivation last year? And what do you see is the reason for him

being so good and so consistent again. Yeah, I don't say surprised. I never really thought of that. That's my fault. I should have asked him some of those questions. I just read that article and I was surprised that he felt he lost his mojo and then reading that he had a laundry list of things he wanted to accomplish, get in the league, win a championship, playing the All-Star game, you know, get a big contract.

And he checked all those boxes off in about a 24-month span. and now he's playing for all the right reasons, his legacy to be a great teammate, to be part of something bigger than himself. And I was surprised when I read it, quite honestly, I didn't feel, I didn't know he felt that way. But now I don't think he'll ever feel that way again. I think he's positioned perfectly in his mind now on why he plays and what's important, and that's the next day and that's the next game.

And he's been very good for us. The underlying stats, again, show a little bit that when, When his numbers weren't good, we were the worst defensive team in hockey were giving up the number, the most amount of great eight chances in backdoor plays. And you could have Patrick Waugh or Martin Bordur, Eddie Belfour in their prime, and those are still one in the net. So what we've done is tightened up around him and allow him to make the first save and we're the benefit factor of him doing that and playing a little more sound defensively. This Blues team doesn't have a player with more than six goals, but you've got nine with at least four. Do you feel like that's really the identity of this team is the depth, the top nine, and just getting scoring from everywhere right now? That was our strength last year, and I think it's going to be our strength moving forward.

One of the things, when you have some extended success, you're picking, you know, 20s, 30s, if you haven't traded those picks to try and go on a run. So I've been very fortunate to work with Bill Armstrong, who's now in Arizona. as the manager did a great job of drafting Cairo and Thomas, not in the top third of the draft in the bottom third or in the second round, and Tage Thompson, who we used to acquire Ryan O'Reilly, you see what he's doing. So kudos go to our amateur scouting staff.

We're doing a great job there. But we are built with depth. We're not built with star power or attaching our wagon to any one horse. We need the whole pack to be strong. Army, I have a question from a blues fan here, and it's about somebody that plays at the University of Minnesota. I know you know who I'm going to ask about. I've watched him play all year long, Jimmy Snogarud, and he is, I mean, I don't know if I've seen a better college shot on a player.

I mean, he reminds me of Vanek of Kessel players like that. He's just a phenomenal watch. Sam wants to know what is Snuggarood's timeline, HL or NCAA next year, and are there any under the radar prospects that maybe fans aren't too familiar with that the organization is really excited about? Yeah, I would say that we don't want to rush the thing with Snuggie. He's got off to a great start down there. And not only is he playing well, he's playing on a top team. It's one thing producing points on a team that's not near the top, but he had to go into a great program that has an eye on a national championship,

and he's found his way to be a good player on that team. And so we're going to let the year play itself out. We're not, I'm not big into rushing prospects and putting them, in situations where they're not going to succeed. He's having a great year now, and I would assume he'll be back there, at least for another year. But we're going to let him decide that by his play. And under the radar prospects, I think, you know,

we have a player by the name of Tucker that we took in the seventh round, who's starting to play games for us now on defense. He just got sent back down because we're getting healthy. But I think probably you talk to every manager. They think they have five or six prospects. then you talk to manage one another team and they think they have one or two. So I think we have five or six, but I'm going to keep some of those to myself. To stick on the subject of the future, I've asked a lot of general managers this just because

I think it's fascinating. Obviously, most teams are pushed against the cap and you're one of them. And you've got quite a few UFAs coming up in the next off season, O'Reilly, Teresanko, a few others. when you hear the positive reports that the salary cap could be going up sooner than maybe expected, how relieved are you? How much does that change plans? And just how much do you think that helps teams around the league that are all pretty much pushed against the cap? That's a really great question. And it might be a different answer. I like the cap being tight. I like it being flat because it makes us manage, it separates or it lets the managers evolve to who are the better managers. Money is a great equalizer. But if there's no money, then it comes down to the people you surround yourself

in hockey department. So if the cap stayed flat, you know, we would adjust to that. But as an industry, you want to see that you want to see the cap grow because that means the revenue is growing. That means the players are generating more excitement for our industry and it grows. So like a more condensed cap, I think it's more competitive for the managers and we're competitive in a different nature. But I'd love to see the cap grow because that means the game's growing and it's great for the players. And, you know, one of the things that we've noticed over over the number of years, though, that pre-pandemic, a bad contract was only bad for a year or two.

And then the cap grew enough to make it acceptable. And what we saw over the last couple of years, that bad contracts, they bad contracts, so flat cap. So I think that if the cap does grow, there's potential that it will grow this year. The commissioner said it, if not next year, for sure, and it's going to grow probably five or six percent from that point moving forward or four to five percent, whatever that number is. So it's going to continue to grow, which is great. But as a competitor of as a manager, you want to compete against other managers and a flat cap makes that more interest. Army, Army, a couple more fee, but, you know, I have this memory of, I think it was game four last year in San Francisco.

Louis of the Wild and Blue series, you come down on the elevator and you got right in your car after that victory and just left. And I said to you, I'm like leaving already and you said they see enough of me. And I was just curious, you know, Bill Guerrin has a thing too where it's like after a loss sometimes, he will not go near the coach's room. He just wants to decompress, let them have their alone time. How do you decide on a day like that where you win that you just take off from the arena and not even show your face in the locker room? Or how do you decide it's time to maybe go take a little stroll through the locker room, talk to the coaches,

whatever, win or loss. Yeah, I would say that it's your demeanor that you have a relationship with the head coach and sort of the feel of the room. I haven't really gone into the room at home for the better part of the year now after a game. I just get in my car, I try and beat the traffic guy, get home.

And then Craig will give me a call when he's driving home. That's 45 minutes later to an hour later. Everybody's had time to decompress. I found that when you go into a room after a win, you're excited. And coaches are coaches. They're finding the things they didn't like about the game and certain players. And then you go in after a loss and nobody speaks. You know, everybody's down.

And so it's just an uncomfortable feeling. And for me, personally and for Craig, we found a really nice rhythm where we can talk an hour after where everybody's decompressed a little bit. and we can have a private one-on-one conversations. You don't want to exclude the assistant coaches, but sometimes, you know, you just want to have a one-on-one relationship with the head coach. So that's something I've done for a while.

On the road, I go in after the game because we've got to wait for the bus and go ahead and say hi to the guys. But at home, it's just worked a little bit better. And quite honest, it gets me home an hour earlier. I can start watching other games. Can I ask you, Doug, also a while just made a trade for Ryan Reeves. You know Ryan really well. What can he still add at the stage of his career?

And what are some of your best Ryan Reeve stories of honestly one of the best personalities in the league? Somebody that I know the media absolutely love to cover because of his personality and he's an absolute quote machine. Yeah, I would all start with the latter part. I'm not covering him or not being around him being a quote machine. He's just a great human game. He cares about people. He cares about the game. He cares about his teammates.

Great in the community. He's one of my. favorite players. And he's just a little bit bigger than life personality. And I remember meeting with him and Kirk Muller one day and he wasn't playing. And we had a meeting where I asked Kirk Muller to really try and take him under his wing because he was at that point where if he didn't expand his game, you know, the writing might have been on the wall. And him and Kirk Mueller became good friends. They worked on certain things. allowed him to get stronger, getting pucks out on the wall, to do little things to extend his career.

Then he went to Pittsburgh, Vegas, the Rangers, and now he's a guy that everybody wants that's part of their organization. And what shows the great character of a man is when things aren't going well. And that's when you're not playing every night or getting an issue you want. How do you carry yourself around the room? And I never saw a difference with the Revo on that. He's going to be great for the wild. He's going to be a fan favorite for a style of play, but he's also going to be a fan favorite for what he does in the community. And Ryan Reeves, if he desires to be, he's going to be in hockey a long time after he stops playing because he brings so much to an organization. He's got great hockey knowledge. You can't be in the league

this long for being a one-trick pony, and he's a physical player. But as I said, he expanded his game. He's been able to, in a game that's gotten younger and quicker, has he been able to stand the test of time. And I'm a huge, huge Ryan Reef fan. And I wish him nothing but the best. And I look forward to see him a little more frequently now that he's going to be in Minnesota. But I'm happy for him that he gets to a situation. And I look forward to watching him.

And again, when you see him, please pass on my best. I'm a great fan of his. Fantastic. I couldn't agree more just for my short time covering here in Vegas, all those things, especially in the community all over the place. This has been great. Thanks for coming on, Doug. We really appreciate the time.

I appreciate having me gone. Again, happy thanks, game to everybody. And take care. Yeah, you too. Thanksgiving. Thanks, guys. Well, Jesse, insightful conversation with Doug Armstrong. And as you mentioned, I mean, you covered Ryan Reeves for a long time in Vegas.

Actually, before we hired you, I covered that 2018 Vegas team. I covered that Jets Golden Knight series where he won the, where he had the series clinching goal against the Jets against his hometown team. As I mentioned, he's a quote machine. You know him best. Tell Wild fans what to expect with him, both on and off the ice. Yeah, a lot of what Doug just said is 100% true.

I mean, he's great. Off the ice, he's always in the community. Like every event the Golden Knights held that I would go to, whether it's a Thanksgiving turkey giveaway, anything. Ryan Reeves is the first guy there. And he's the most popular guy there. He also has a beer company. He had a beer in St. Louis.

He had a beer in Vegas. I don't know if he was in New York to have a beer long enough, but you may have a beer company in Minnesota soon. On the ice, he's, so Ryan Reeves, the hockey player brings a lot in terms of the energy. Pete DeBore and Gerard Gallant both started the Golden Knights fourth line on a regular basis in games because they liked what. And this is solely because of Ryan Reeves, because when Reeves would be out of the lineup, whether it was for injury or whatever, the fourth line no longer started.

But when Reeves was in the lineup, they like to start that line because it puts the other team on their heels. it gets them looking over their shoulder a little more. They know he likes to finish his checks. So he brings that in terms of the offense, it's not great. I was a pretty big critic of Reeves here in Vegas. He can be a liability at times on defense. When he's in the offensive zone, it's working. They like to, I call him yellow puck shifts. They wrap it around the boards over and over and over. It never really comes off the boards. But they spend a lot of time in the offensive zone. And when he spends time in the offensive zone, they're good productive shifts that they're good, productive shifts that hand off to the top line in a good spot.

He can get in trouble when he has to play in his own end. But, and I think that's why you see some of the, he's been scratched, what, five of the last eight of the last nine, I think, eight of the last nine games in New York. Yeah. And that's why when he's caught in his own end, he's not the best defender. But if you can put him in the right spots, he can be an agitator for the other team. And obviously he brings a lot of that stuff. I'll never forget the Shark series, the first round, the one that went seven games that

had the major penalty where the Golden Knights blew it is the most epic playoff series I've ever covered. And that series, Ryan Reeves, was just spectacular. On the ice, he was getting into Van der Kaine's head. He was off the ice. We'd just walk into the locker room and Kevin Kerr's was covering the sharks for us at the time. He would be in the Sharks locker room and I'd be in the night's locker room. And we're texting the quotes back and forth so that the players can reply to each other like in real time. And Reeves is calling Joe Thornton, grandpa, Joe Thornton had to play had to spend a game in the penalty box or in the press box. And Reeves are saying he's getting him some glasses because he doesn't think he can see the ice from up there. Just phenomenal. He is

incredibly fun to cover. I'm so jealous. You get Flurry, my favorite player to cover. And now you get Ryan Reeves another guy, another easy guy to cover. So Dane Mizutani, who covers the wild for the Pioneer Press. He's the biggest Ryan Reeves fan ever. And about a week and a half ago, I said, I said, I have a feeling you're about to get your dream come true because I kept on hearing word and made all the sense in the world for the wild to go after him, simply because the wild are such an undersized team that gets beat on the boards and things like that. But as Bill Garron said today, they've lost their swagger.

They have very little energy and that's partly why they're bringing him. Yeah, my feeling on the trade as well is I'll be interested to see if he could play a regular shift here or if there's going to come a point where he's going to need to be scratched or things like that, if they're going to want a faster lineup. That was the one thing that I saw opening night with him is he's still the toughest ombre around. I mean, Marcus Flino just sent me some hilarious text. and they've had some epic battles.

But he has trouble getting to those hits now. You know, he's not the fleetest of foot where he used to be this big linebacker on skates, right? And so, yeah, so, you know, we'll see if it works as I wrote about a week and a half ago when I wrote about Reeves and I said on my podcast a couple weeks ago as well, if Bill Garron thought that they weren't rugged enough last year when he acquired Nick DeLoree, he's definitely going to think they're not rugged enough this year because they're just a softer team, plain and simple.

And so that's a big reason for this trade, a message to the locker room too. And not only when you think they don't have the energy to swagger, I think Reeves brings it, but in the locker room, he's great. I mean, he's going to bring a swagger to that team. And you feel a little, I remember Golden Knights player saying, like, you feel a couple inches taller when you're skating around with Ryan Reeves on the bench because you know, like, you're, like the other team's going to have to answer for anything they do. So we had that late breaking trade. And then we also had the Leafs that traded for a defenseman, not surprised.

They've obtained Connor Timmons, a 24-year-old defenseman from the coyotes in exchange for 6'5-9 center Curtis Douglas. That is a massive, massive player. But no surprise for this trade. Obviously, the Leafs have been decimated on the blue line. They just needed an NHL body right here, right? Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I think we, did we talk about it earlier on this podcast or I can't remember.

I feel like we've recorded this podcast in different segments here. But we talked about the Leafs and how they needed, you know, to get a defenseman. They're just decimated by injury. Now Morgan Riley. Obviously, we know about T.J. Brody. They're just, you know, a mess right now on the blue line. And there's just going to have to come a point where they're going to add, need to add an NHL body. And they clearly did that.

Man, six, nine center that they traded away to. That's unbelievable. Yeah, the Golden Knights have Mason Primo, the Primo's kid here in Vegas. And I think he's like six, seven. And he's a center. And it just, it looked like, for what? of a reason, a forward being that. A defenseman being six, seven doesn't really throw you off. But that, like, he lines up for a face off. And you're like, wait a minute, what's going on here?

Jesse, I'm telling you last night I watched the Montreal Buffalo game. And Tage Thompson is six, six, six eight on skates. He looks like he's about seven, two. And he skates like he is, you know, you know, like a, like a, like a, like, should be doing like, you know, hundred door dashes. He is, he is, he is a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal player. Obviously, I'm not saying that Douglas is going to be that. But I'm just like, there's just something about a gigantic board. that could skate. And again, Tage also, as you said, center, you know, pretty, pretty impressive season that Tage is having. Awesome. Awesome. Good stuff. And thanks again to Doug Armstrong for joining us. When we come back, Joe's going to come back and we're going to do rapid fire, so don't go anywhere. All right, we are back for your favorite time of the show and our favorite time of the show, Rapid Fire. We're going to start off with, we hit on a lot of stuff in the first segment. We didn't quite get to this. Joel Quinville has said he wants to return to the NHL behind an NHL bench.

Obviously, as we discussed with Bill Daley, there are NHL hoops that that's got to go through in order to happen. What was your initial thought when you hear that, Michael? Well, I mean, not a surprise that he wants to get back in. And as he said, I mean, all this is a moot point to talk about because he's going to have to go and sit in front of Gary Betman and get cleared to return to behind a bench. obviously he's had some time to do some thinking on the way that that situation was handled by the Chicago Blackhawks hierarchy and his clear, you know, ignoring of a major, major issue that was going on Chicago because he wanted to win hockey games during the playoffs. And to me, it's an unacceptable situation. You know, is he remorseful?

Does he, has he felt like he's made amends? This is stuff that Gary Bettman is going to have to determine whether, you know, is he remorseful? determine whether or not in this climate where we all know that social media could could you know just imagine I mean we just saw what happened to Mitch Miller just imagine on the day that say Joe Quinville is reinstated and hired by a team what's going to happen to that team so that's another thing that this could be a moot point guys is as good as he coaches is it's NHL team after witnessing you know what social media and the whole you know situation with with any sort of controversy can you know put in

in terms of a blotcha in an organization, are they going to want that headache? So there's multiple hoops that he's going to have to go through before this is even at all something that come into fruition. Yeah, like, can you imagine, like, you know, that I'm asking if he's ever reached out to Cal Beach since the incident? Like, you know, has you iron apologized? Like, for me, like, he's a Hall of Fame coach. He's one of the brightest hockey minds that are in the league. And so no doubt if your team do like to have a guy like that on your bench.

But there's so many issues that are beyond that right now. And I think it would be important, not just him in meeting with Bettman, but him speaking publicly about this. Instead of last year, he wanted to avoid it with all costs when they were asked about it and kind of dismissed it as nothing. So if he comes back and gets this whole second chance again, I think there should be a media, not say me a culpable, but he should be able to be open and honest in the media to the fans of this team whoever he goes to and said, hey, listen, I screwed up or whatever he wants

to say or whatever, what are you learned in the process? But it shouldn't be where he gets to come back and coach and all of a sudden say, oh, that's in the past guys, I'm done with that. I think it should be more of a public-facing response to what was a serious, serious problem in Chicago. Wasn't all his fault, of course, but he definitely lays some blame in that pickers issue. I totally agree. Not only with just the apology, but also the, what have you learned? What, what, what have we learned from this whole situation? And he's someone that obviously is super involved in it. And to me, I agree, needs to speak publicly about what he's learned,

about why he's apologizing, why he wants to be back in the league, how he can do things differently. there's not really good transition to get to this next topic, but we mentioned the Thanksgiving break is a big moment for teams to figure out where they're at. That kind of leads into trades, and one of the potential trade targets looks like he's coming back to play, Jacob Chikrin is going to return to the coyotes, it looks like. We all know that the coyotes are tanking right now. They're trying to trade to every player they can to get what they can. What would you say about Chikrin coming back and what do you think, what kind of interest do you think there is around the league. Obviously, he's a really good player. He's under a super reasonable contract. Three more

years at like four million, I think. Should be a lot of callers. What do you think, Mike? Yeah, I do agree with you. I mean, you know, I think that they're going to want to see him healthy right away. You know, he is coming back. I talked to his dad the other day. Father, son trip right now. So Jacob's coming back for that. He's got two more seasons that I believe four, six, which is a bargain deal. If he's the player that he was a couple years ago, if he's the player that we've seen lately, you know, it doesn't look like that he is that high-ender, but I think that happens a lot when you're kind of stuck in Arizona and playing in front of or behind some of the problems

that they've had here the last couple years. I think that here are there's going to be a lot of teams that are interested. We know the Toronto Maple Leafs are a team that are just absolutely decimated on the blue line. There's other teams like Ottawa that need blue liners, Edmonton, teams like that. And I think that this now opens the door that we're going to start to see a lot of potential trade interest here as we get to that that real pressure point of post Thanksgiving.

And that means guys like Bo Horvett, John Plingberg, have ducks still not one in regulation? You know, Klingberg signs the one-year deal at $7 million because there was no interest in giving him a long-term deal last year. I think these are the type of players that are going to start to gain some interest there. I think especially with the way Vancouver is playing,

Bo Horvats is going to be one of the hottest names on the market. And if he agrees and he wants to be yet, out of there. He wants to be part of the team that he thinks he win faster. There'll be a lot of contenders or teams that want to be contenders. I even look at teams that need center depth and we cover one on daily basis, Mike, the team that needs a center help in that respect. So he'll be one of the hottest things I'll be looking for as we go the next couple months towards trade deadline. To be fair, the wild have needed center depth since the year 2000. They don't believe in center death. One team that looks like it doesn't need any help at center

and we know they don't need help at first line center. The Boston Bruins seem like they're never going to lose again. Patrice Bergeron hit the 1,000 point mark in their win over Tampa Bay. What impresses you the most about what Patrice has done and what he continues to do at this high level? We'll start with you, Joe. I mean, I think just the consistency over the course of his career, right? That's a very difficult position to play up the middle

and be that elite for that long of a time. I think they're almost to rename the Selkie after him, considering how much every year you just pencil them in at number one for the most part. And that team, people doubted them before the year started, right? They all lost all these players. Are they old and aging? There's that run for the best team that started in 2011 done. And I think he's a big part of bringing Kretche back and getting the whole group together.

And they play like a mentally strong veteran team that's having fun. And he sets a tone from the top there. There are so many jams in this league that if you say in the heyday, who would you start an NHL franchise on? I know a lot of people look at this guy, that guy. A lot of these GMs value what Berserun could do from a two-way perspective. He is, I mean, you know, it's almost funny to think that,

remember, there was talk of him retiring this offseason. They were just so excited to get him back. And here he is a point of game, still elite defensively, still a lead on the penalty kill, still one of the great face-off guys in the NHL, and what we saw during the Mitchell Miller thing that reaffirmed he's just a great, great human being. and the Boston Bruins absolutely

is just lucky that they were drafted them in that draft in 2003 that we always talk about first round this, first round that to think that Petriece Bergeron went 45th overall if I remember correctly. You know, it's just quite amazing and just an incredible draft that he was the 45th best player taken.

Pretty unbelievable. Definitely. Good stuff, guys. What are you doing for Thanksgiving, Michael? going to friends and I got cousins here in Minnesota so doing all getting all that got some work to do too

just some stories to write could be writing about your team here in a little bit I think all right they're starting to win some games again so yeah just excited to get past the holiday here and get into really the

the fun of the hockey season which is as we all know the second half how about you Joe what are you doing for Thanksgiving yeah well my wife and I and our dog are making the drive over to the Chicago area to see my mother-in-law there. And then my sister and her nephews are in Aurora as well. So we're going to spend Thanksgiving between those two places,

which is one of the benefits of moving up to back to the Midwest, is being a little closer to family. So it'll be a lot of time on the road on Wednesday and over the weekend, but it'll be worth it for a lot of good family time. Awesome. Well, safe travels. I will not be traveling. I'll be staying here in Vegas.

I'll be hanging out with some family here. I'll also be riding like Mike. I have an NHL 99 piece coming up that I'm putting the finishing touches on Tony Esposito. And as everyone that listens to this show knows, I am the goalie guy. I'm a goalie nerd. I have had so much fun nerding out talking to like the first goalie coaches in NHL history, really digging deep into the history books of goaltending for this one. It's been a lot of fun.

So that's what I'll be doing on my Thanksgiving. Thanks for everyone for listening. I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving also. and don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platforms, and don't forget to leave a rating and a review. Our Black Friday sale at The Athletic is happening now. It ends next Monday, November 28th, but for now you can get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month for a year when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Monday with Mendez and McKenzie. Have a great Thanksgiving.

The Roundtable returns next week with our guest, Bernie Nichols.