The Athletic Hockey Show - Thanksgiving measuring stick in the NHL, Vasilevskiy to return on road trip and hockey is back in Southern California

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Ian and Julian look ahead to a busy night in the NHL, including a rookie face-off between Connor Bedard and Adam Fantilli in Columbus, they look ahead to Andrei Vasilevskiy season debut scheduled for the Lightning's upcoming road trip and stick tap the Seattle Kraken / Vegas Golden Knights winter classic jerseys.Down Goes Brown stops by to talk about which teams are in good and bad positions at the Thanksgiving mark of the NHL season and how an in-season tournament could work for the NHL. Plus he previews his latest column, the ‘Championship Belt’ of Hockey franchises dysfunction from pre NHL to 1992. Eric Stephens joins from Anaheim on Thanksgiving eve to discuss the surprising Ducks, the Western conference contending LA Kings and the rebuild in San Jose with the Sharks. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. It is a Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Ian Mendezon and Julian McKenzie with you to recap the night that was on Tuesday in the NH. That's what we're going to do. And this is where we ask our producers to insert one of those, you know, the color bars and it's like file not found. because there was no games on Tuesday. We got no fresh games, storylines to jump in.

Yeah, just quiet. What you do with your Tuesday? You said yesterday on the pod, you're like, yeah, spend time with friends and family, maybe learn how to cook, cook meal, whatever. What did Julian McKenzie do last night?

I tried to write a story. I watched YouTube videos. I went to bed early. Were those two things related, by the way, the videos and your story, or those were? No, I just procrastinating. I'm like kind of going through like a little bit of like a mental like writing wall. Like I, you've, you've had those where like you're just trying to write something and you have this great idea. You think it's a great idea.

I think it's the greatest idea in the world. And then all of a sudden you just hit this wall where all of a sudden you can't write. And it's just like you try to push through it. Is this a feature story on somebody? Yeah. Yeah, it's a feature story on. somebody and I've been working on this for like months and I've gotten all these interviews and I've I've put all my audio in like the transcription service otter and yeah I've I've I've got it there it's just I'm just trying to create this narrative and it just has not it hasn't hit for me yet like it's just I don't know you and it's a bit of a tough time I know I'll know I'll burst through it and it'll be the best thing but like maybe it's because of the fact I have not set like a deadline for myself yeah like I I know I I know I'll burst through it and it'll be the best thing but like I I know I know that once I get this done,

I'm going to feel so good about it. It's just, man, I didn't expect it to be this top. You know, one of the biggest challenges I found now that I've switched over to writing full time. And I don't know if you feel this way or even, and this isn't not just, this isn't just for writers. This is for anybody, you know,

if you're doing a project or even a college or university essay or whatever, do you find it harder to write the top, like the lead or the conclusion, like the end, like they're both equally challenging. What do you find harder to the top? The top for me, I'm just someone who tries to be as linear as possible in my writing process.

So just getting that start, like for me, that just has always been more of a difficult thing. What I do, that being said, there are times where once I start, maybe I'll have an ending in mind and then I'll write out an ending. And then I'll try spending the rest of my time failing out the rest of my time failing out the rest of that story, but I've definitely had more difficulty finding a way to start. For what it's worth, I have a top ready. It's just the middle part with the stuffing, the meat on the bones. Look at this Thanksgiving reference. I love it. Yeah, the beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, lamb, ram, hog dogs, all that stuff in the middle, you name it. That's what I'm trying to put together right now. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you figured by watching some YouTube videos that would

help. Procrastination just happens. It is what it is. I'm sure the great, Michael Rousseau's done it. I mean, he's a machine, but I'm sure he's had moments in his life where he procrastinates. Just like you, Ian.

I do for sure. I have the same. It's relatable. It's relatable. So that's why. It was nice to have a quiet night in the NHL on Tuesday, not the case on Wednesday. As we lead into the biggest holiday weekend.

in the United States, it's Thanksgiving. Wednesday night features 14 games in the NHL. You want to talk about stuffing your schedule. That's what they do. Because there's no games on Thursday. The entire slate goes to

American NFL football and rightfully so. It's a triple header. We get it. But 14 games in the NHL on Wednesday. And I got to tell you, there's a couple, like, as I say, look at the matchups, Julian, like the Western Conference games are really, like Dallas, Vegas, Wednesday night,

has the potential to be the Western Conference Final, depending on how things shake down, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. You're looking at two teams who have been in the conference final before, two teams who have been in Stanley Cup Finals in recent years, and you look at Vegas, obviously, reigning champions. Two teams who, entering this year, you could have called them contending teams.

And it seems like they have just about everything you would want in a cup contending team. If I'm a GM and I want my team to look like somebody in order to be taken seriously, you look at those two teams. So yeah, there's the potential for that game to be fun. And this is where living on the West Coast is a benefit. I see a 9.30 p.m. start. I'm sure that's a, I don't know why it's showing an Eastern time for me on the H.L.com website, but 730 looks pretty good for people living in Mountain Time. That being said, obviously covering the Calgary Flames, I'll be looking at Flames Predators. But definitely, If I, if I, if I'm able to do the split screen stuff, you know, able to get the multiple

screens up in there, I want my eye on Vegas, Dallas. Yeah, Vegas, Dallas is going to be a lot of fun on, on Wednesday. I look at that. I think if you're Dallas, that's more of the test, right? Like, yes. I think that's, right, like, I don't think Vegas, like, I, we talked about this when they played Colorado a few weeks ago. And that game ended up being a dud, right?

Was it seven nothing? Seven nothing. I don't remember the score. I don't think, I think the only team right now. that I would say when I'm looking at Vegas and I would say like, okay, Vegas should look at this as a litmus test would be Boston right now.

And that's only, and I think they play each other, yeah, they play each other in January. So they still have a little bit of time to go. But that's the only team I would look at right now and say like that's a bit of a litmus test for Vegas. Because I think that they're clearly the class of the West.

They're defending Stanley Cup champion. They're off to a great start. I'd be curious to see what they look like up against the team that has been the class of the East last year in the regular season, again this year to start. And that's Boston, right? I can understand that. But I think at that point, you're already jumping to that assumption. And I don't blame me for jumping to that assumption because I've said all year that we've been sleeping on Vegas as a cup contending team. But you're making that point that like, okay, their heads are in the final.

Teams don't think that way all the time, though. So for Dallas and Colorado, those two teams in the Western Conference, the once by the time we thought Edmonton would be in that class too. They're off to a bad start, obviously. I think if you're Vegas, you have to look at Dallas and Colorado and not overlook those teams because it's very possible they're in your way in order to get to that Boston matchup. You mentioned Edmonton stumbling. You realize on Wednesday there's a matchup that I think a lot of people thought at the start of the year,

when I circled this game and said Stanley Cup final. review. Carolina at home to Edmonton. That's literally what people have put as a Stanley final matchup. Carolina, Edmonton. You went back five weeks ago, six weeks ago that I think that would have been a lot of people's consensus. And what's funny is, listen, I think Edmont, not funny, but like, Edmonton is really kind of struggled out of the gate. That's been well documented. You know, Carolina has just kind of been

there. They're not the, like, they're not dominating in the way that we're kind of used to seeing them be a lock it in, they run away, like the Rangers are sort of taking that perch in the, in the division, and I'm double checking this. Yeah, like,

like I'm not saying they're bad. I don't want to make this clear. Like Carolina, and maybe they've been so good under Rod Brinnamore that we're like desensitized to them. Like, we just assume they're going to be good. But I think they're kind of just having a okay season, right?

Yeah. I feel you on that. It mean, maybe this is just from the bird's eye view here, but it sort of feels like we've given Carolina, the benefit of the doubt because they've been so good over the last few years. Here's something that I did not expect looking at the Metropolitan Division. You talk about the Rangers being as good as they are.

Not as much of a surprise for me. We've talked about them before. Some of the young players are getting better. I know Capocaco not as good, but Alexei Lafranier has been playing good. Yeah. Philadelphia and Washington. I get it. Like, it's very early in the year.

Like, I mean, New Jersey is like three points behind them. And it's still at that point, like, you know, in a bike race where you have the, the cluster of people in the middle, the Peloton, and eventually people will break out of that. But I did not put the Philadelphia Flyers as a team who would be second in that division and winners of five in a row under John Tortorella. Like that is really good for that team.

Like I did not expect that for the Philadelphia Flyers. And the capitals right one point behind them. They won four in a row. the hottest teams in the metropolitan division are Philly and Washington, two teams that I don't think many people had them in the playoffs. Like, that's cool for them. I mean, we'll see how it shakes out entering the new year. But, like, those are two interesting stories.

Like, if you think about this, Washington has lost four games in regulation time this year. That's it. Four times in regulation for Washington. that I think a lot of us figured they weren't even in the same conversation as Pittsburgh, right? We assumed Pittsburgh was going for it. Washington was just slowly decomposing, and that's not how it's played out. So interesting to see that. Yeah, the East has some interesting matchups for sure.

One other thing I want to get to before we bring our pal, Sean McAdoo, down goes Brown, into the conversation. The Tampa Lightning, you know, I chat with John Cooper a couple of weeks ago, and he did indicate to me that Andrei Vazolevsky was likely going to come back in and around Thanksgiving. And it looks like he's on target here to come back. And I'm wondering, again, by their own standards, it's almost that the lightning and Carolina are kind of similar to start the year. Like by any other people's measures, they'd be having a pretty good season,

but by their own standard, they're not. Sitting in fourth place in the division, Tampa's nine, six, and four. but is it safe to say that with Vasilevsky coming back, this is mission accomplished. Like they hung in there. Like they didn't fade out, they didn't fall out, they didn't pull at Edmonton.

They're right in there. Now they're getting arguably their most important piece back and maybe they'll be okay in the next three or four months. 1,000%. This is a team that, I mean, you mentioned it with Andre Vaselowski being the backbone of that team, for them to hang in there,

get some decent results from guys like Jonas Johansson and net, and they have the same number of points as the Toronto Maple Leafs in their division. You're right, in order of comparing them with Carolina where I feel like they've been given the benefit of the doubt in the case of Tampa, they have those Stanley Cup

rings and playoff runs to show for it. As long as they're in the playoffs, I have a hard time betting against them at all. I just feel with the coaching that's there, the talent that's there and you're getting

a healthy Andre Vasilevsky back like I'm not saying they're going to win the Stanley Cup this year but I just feel like because of what they've gone through over these last few years it's so difficult to bet against this team and the playoff savvy that they accumulate. I think it's a thing

it's just that as long as your guys are healthy and they're not banged up then you're fine so I think for Vasaleski to have that injury layoff which has been unfortunate but he's healthy to get back as long as I mean the fact that they were able to write that ship, I think you're right to say it's mission accomplished for them. Like, that's really awesome that they've been able to keep themselves up in and around

a playoff position. And now we just have to see what happens as they go now. I mean, again, can't sleep on the Tampa Bay Lightning as a team. I know there's Boston. I know Charles trying to be good. But as long as those pieces in front of Vasilevsky, like a Nikita Kutrov, are healthy, good luck betting against those guys. Just it is what it is. And maybe that helps John Cooper's case for Jack Adams too. Yeah, exactly. He, He kept them in the, they're in the race for sure. And Cooper telling reporters he thinks Vaselowski could or should be back at some point in a three-game road trip. Looks like if I had to guess Monday in Denver would be the date that I think you might see Andre Vasilovsky.

But again, Tampa Bay hanging in there and their best player is, or arguably their best player, is just around the corner. Just around the corner for us is down goes brown. Sean McAvue. We're going to get to him in just a minute. We're going to talk about all things. championship belt related from a dysfunctional standpoint. This is going to be a fun conversation.

So we'll get the Sean McAdo on the other side. You got to get you one of those NHL hats, Ian. The, what we got, Roblo? Yeah, you need one of those hats. Just so you could have it. Let's bring in Sean McAdoo and see, would he ever wear like an NHL hat?

Yeah, you know, there have been times as a Leaf fan that I probably would have to have an NHL hat instead of what I normally got. By the way, can we just mention Julian? Like, don't think I didn't hear you slip in there when you were singing the praises of the lightning that the Toronto Maple Leafs are trying to be good. Trying to be good. I mean. Some faint praise, right?

I mean, like, I know it's been kind of up and down, but Willie Neelander's good. He's great. Yeah. Are they trying, though? Are they really trying? Yeah. I mean, come on. Like you signed Tyler Bertuzi and Max Domey and all the Ryan Reeves.

You don't think you're trying to be good. Yeah. You're trying to be good. You're trying. You know, 110 points every season for the last four or five years. They're trying. Okay, okay, okay. I understand what you're trying to get at with that here.

I understand. I was just trying to make the point that things have been up and down and they were just trying to be good. But I also understand too, they have been good for quite some time. It just has not resulted in the results that everyone would want in that city. I understand. The very kind way to Please fans are the best.

They're like, you know, only we can make fun of our team. That's right. I've said that, yes, being a Leaf fan, it's like when you're in like grade school

and you just like complain constantly about your parents. But if somebody else says one word about them, it's go time because, no, no, you don't get, I get to talk about how I got the worst parents.

You're not allowed to say anything. That's exactly the same vibe. Two words. Two words for you. Two words for you, two words for you, DGB, rent free.

Yep. Yep. pretty much. Hey, listen, we're just talking about a crazy schedule of games, 14 of them on Wednesday night, and it leads into Thanksgiving. Do you buy into, this is a natural pressure point, Sean?

Like, let's say in the next week, if I said we're going to see a coach get fired or a significant trade happened, like, do you think at some point, it obviously won't happen around, you know, at Thanksgiving, but like within the week, do you think we might see something happen? Yeah, maybe.

As far as the Thanksgiving thing, do I buy into it? Yeah, I do because it seems like the NHL does. I mean, there have been places where they've said, like, yeah, GMs do look at that, coaches look at that. You know, they will use that to kind of push their players and say, guys, we got to get going because Thanksgiving's coming up and we all know the stat. Now, clearly there is a world of difference. between being one point out of a playoff spot on Thursday,

you know, especially if you've got games in hand and all this other stuff, versus in some of these teams that are six, seven, more than that back. But yeah, I mean, if only to remind us that as long as this regular season is, things don't change as much as you would expect them to,

over the four and a half months that we still have to go. I mean, you're looking at this and you're going, my team's got 60 plus games. left. There's a million different things that could happen. We can, we go up down any, you know, who knows. And yet, history does tell us that the standings are largely set by now. And it's crazy. It doesn't feel like it should be that way. It generally is. Okay. I just had a random thought come into my head here. And maybe it's top of mind because the NBA is doing this. Where do you

stand on whether or not the NHL should have like an in-season tournament. Like around now, you make some of those games. I mean, it's 82 game season. It's long enough as it is. But, you know, if we have this whole thing with Thanksgiving where, you know, if you're in that position where you're at, like, there's a good chance you're already going to be a playoff team. Why not make more of those regular season games matter with some kind of in-season tournament?

You incentivize it with guys, you know, playing for money or a playoff spot or just some kind of carrot at the end of the light of the tunnel that would get guys to kind of to play a little bit better, not play a little bit better, but you know, just just something to incentivize. That's, you, you've absolutely hit the nail on the head both as far as, you know, this would be a great idea because, man, the NHL regular season, it just is such a slog, especially because these days the playoffs are, you know, seeding doesn't matter, whole mice doesn't matter.

And people love that. I get that, you know, people look at something like the Panthers beating the Bruins last year and they go, that's amazing. That's why I love the NHL playoffs. Anything can happen. You got to bring your A game every night. Okay, great. I get that.

But man, it makes the regular season a tough sell because it's basically six months to figure out who are going to be the 16 teams to make it, who are going to be the 16 teams that don't. And that's it. We don't learn anything else. Even if a team has 135 points, it doesn't tell you a thing about what's going to happen in the playoffs, except that they're in, some other team is out. So, yeah, I love the idea.

I love the concept of what can we do during the season to make some of this feel important, to put some novelty into this, this long, long schedule. The problem is, are you going to get the players to buy it? Is anybody going to care? Because, you know, we see at one extreme, we see what the All-Star game looks like, something where very clearly the players do not care at all. It's awful. It's unwatchable.

I give credit to the initial. They've tried different gimmicks and threw it. three and all this stuff. You can't watch the All-Star game. It's terrible because nobody cares. Now, would the players care if it was an in-season tournament? Well, you know, if it was part of the regular season, yes. But also, this is the same league that constantly tells us the Stanley Cup is the only thing that matters. Oh, the Bruins won the President's Trophy last year, 135 points. Pretty great season, right. No, failure. Failure. Embarrassment because they lost in the first round. Nobody cares.

Even when you win the conference championship to go to the final, what does everybody do? They make a big show of, I'm not going to touch the trophy because that's not the trophy we want. We're not even going to touch it. It means that little to us. We all have to play this game where this Stanley Cup is the only thing that matters. So how are you going to get people to care about either some sort of regular season tournament or maybe it's a regional thing? I know people have said, like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, he took some of the rivalries and they played a series and there's a trophy or something. or banner. I love the idea. I just wish that I felt like the players and the teams and everyone

would act like they cared. Maybe if we see it in the NBA and it's a big hit, maybe, you know, maybe that helps. I just, I just don't believe that after all of these years of it's Stanley Cup or nothing. One winner, 31 losers, and that's the way we have to look at every season. I just don't see how you're going to get people to care about. But isn't money like any way to do it? Like especially for a league like the NHL, where players, like, one thing we look at so much is how players' salaries compared to NBA players. How, like, you could be Connor McDavid making all the money you make and it's as good as like a sixth man on an NBA team. Isn't money at the end of it all?

That wouldn't that be the thing that like, that should be the thing that should get everyone going for an in-season tournament? Imagine being like Conner's Erie on like Calgary Flames team who makes like a little over $860 something. and like at the end of that price pool he could win like what even a quarter of that as like his price pool as an example at the end of that say like everyone gets like 250K is that not enough like is that not something we could do I've said before and in season tournament if you have like a playoff spot available maybe that could work but maybe that might not work but money I mean is that not enough of an incentive for people I mean it it hasn't worked in the all-star game now the counter to that is a lot of the guys in the All-Star game are making $10 million a year. So, you know, when you give them a couple million bucks to divide up, you know, maybe it's not enough. What in the regular season? I don't know.

It would have to be a good chunk of money. And, you know, that's the problem, right? This is a gate-driven league where, you know, they're already pinching pennies. So how do you do this in a way where it makes financial sense? Because that's the only way Gary Bedman's ever going to look at something like this is if he looks at the bottom line and says this is going to make it, you know, forget about entertainment. We know for 30 years.

We know that entertainment value doesn't matter to these guys unless it translates to the bottom line. So can they make money off of this and share that money with the players? You'd think so. Again, they're supposed to be partners, right? The players and the owners and, you know, revenue goes up and that rising tide's supposed to lift all the ships. It just doesn't seem to work that way. I would tell you, the playoff spot would do it. The playoff spot would get these guys going.

I mean, if you had a chance to lock in a playoff spot in December, you know, even if you're a great, even if you're 20 points up on the playoff bubble, you're going to go all out for that. I think the, that Sean, okay, spot being locked up. We've lost Ian.

Okay. Oh, did you lose me? Am I? Yeah, you're back. You're the problem, man.

Yep. We've decided. You're back. You're back. I think we lost you in the rant you might have been trying to do. But we had you back for a second. I think we still have you back now. Okay.

Now, do you have me? Yeah, so make your point. Make your point. sorry. No, you know what? I'm going to just dispute one thing that Sean said when Sean said the Stanley Cup is the only thing that matters. I'm going to dispute it and say, I raise you a championship belt of hockey franchise dysfunction because that matters.

It should. It absolutely should because, hey, there's only like a handful of teams that have a realistic chance at the Stanley Cup every year. But man, there's a lot of contenders for the championship belt of franchise dysfunction and instability and ineptitude. There were, I tell you, man, I went through the entire history of the NHL. There was not one single year where I was like, I man, I'm having trouble finding somebody. It was always, how do I narrow this huge list of teams that don't seem to know what they're doing down?

It's so true. Like, think about it even for this year, just like in the here and the now, the debate amongst Columbus fans, Edmonton fans, San Jose fans, who would be like, no, no, no, no. My team's the most dysfunctional, right? Like, so there's a great debate in the Senate. Senators fans might try to jump in there and say, you know, we got all these weird suspensions and everything happening. Maybe we're, maybe we're the ones.

I don't want to give it away. But you're right. Even now, GM got fired. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, like it's, it's even now in what is comparatively a far more stable era, you know, like this is the NHL is now run by grownups compared to what it was 30, 40 plus years ago.

Um, not, not difficult. Difficult to narrow down. Not difficult to, uh, to find anyone who's, who's, uh, who can fit the bill. So this is a two-parter for the, uh, the, the listeners that also subscribe to the athletic and read our stuff all the time. Sean's got a, this is a two-part series, right? That a part one dropped on Wednesday. And now is this an idea that been, this is the one that had been rattling around your

brain for a while. Am I right on this? Yep. This, this had been going around for, for a while. And the concept of the championship belt is one that I'm boring from a friend of mine. Bill Barnwell came up with it back in the Grantland days. It was a website, kids, ask you grandparents. And Bill came up with this idea of, you know, we can take anything.

It can be who's the best quarterback. Who's the best this or that? Who's the worst? And you just pick the championship belt. You find a place to start. You say who fits this description. And they hold the belt until somebody takes it from them. There's no, it can't be.

there's no tie goes to the run or anything like this, but somebody's got to come along and be even better slash worse slash whatever it is. And then they get the belt. And you just sort of trace it through history. And so I'm doing it with the essentially the worst franchise, the worst run, the most dysfunctional,

not the worst team. We've got the standings. We can look and see who's in last place at any given time. This is about who is the team. I think the way I phrased it in the article is that if you're a fan of another team, even if your team's on a losing street, even if they're in last place, you look at this team and you go, at least we're not them. And, you know, who is that team throughout all the different stops in NHL history?

Is you have like a favorite among teams that you were able to dig up as the most dysfunctional? I guess it's weird to say favorite, but like maybe one that you just kind of looked up. You're like, nah, these guys are so bad, but it's also kind of entertaining. Yeah, I mean, there's a ton. I mean, you know, the Montreal Wanderers, one of the four teams that starts the NHL, you know, there's only four teams, not six. There's no original six is long, you know, we got a long wait, but for them, four teams in the NHL, the Montreal Wanderers last six games and their arena burns down. And they're now homeless and they fold. And the NHL finishes its first season down one team.

You know, you go all through, through history that the Washington Capitals, one of the worst teams in the first teams. the history of sports and they came in as an expansion team so bad that they didn't win their first road game until March of their first season. They won six months basically without winning a single road game. When they did, they picked up the garbage can near the dressing room and started passing it around like it was the Stanley Cup to signify that they had finally, this garbage team had finally won a game. Obviously, you got to have the Harold Ballard Leafs in there somewhere. The New Jersey Devils, when Wayne Gretzky was calling them the Mickey Mouse organization, you know, that stuck with them for a long time.

No shortage of candidates, no shortage of champions. And yeah, today's part one. I mean, I took it up to 1992. That's 75 years. I'll tell you right now, the next 30, part two, a lot of title changes. We got some like late 90s, WWF style hot shot booking going on because you can't keep this thing on one team for more than a couple years because there's just so many contenders going.

But I can be even dumber than those guys. Oh, yeah. Just think of the Islanders in that window with like John, not John Spano. Who was the- John Spano? Mike Milberry. I mean,

do you go down the list? Yep. Islanders are going to be, they're going to be contenders, you know, I got. So they fumbled the back so much in that era, man.

Not just with John Spanow with the players that they had. Terrible arena, trading away Hall of Famers, you know, the given Alexei Ashen all the money, 15-year contract for Rick Dapier. No forget when they gave Rick Di Pietro all that money too. Yeah.

Yep. You know, and also, you know, to the point where we just listed a whole bunch of things and we didn't even mention that they made their backup goalie of the GM. Like that one actually kind of worked out okay for them. So, yeah, the Islanders are heavy hitters in part two, let's just say. Did you remember even, I don't even know if this makes it, but they had one of the co-owners of the team, Charles Wong. At one point, he, like, flirted with the idea of like a sumo wrestler.

As a goalie, do you remember this? That was reported, yeah, that he had at some point asked, like, why can't we just get, like, the biggest guy that we can find? Get a sumo wrestler. And put him in that. Yeah, put him in net. And he'll just take up the whole, we'll wedge him in there. He'll take up the whole net. He doesn't have to move.

He doesn't even have to skate. Why can't we do that? And they had to explain to him. Like, you know, that's, and that got out. So imagine the ideas that got buried. Horrifying to think about. What? Julie, have you never heard that story before?

No, I had no idea about the story. What? Yeah. That was in that same window, right? Like early 2000s, somewhere in there. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Yeah.

Okay. Well, okay. So part two, is that coming Thursday or Friday? That's coming Thursday. That's coming Thursday. What fan base do you think is going to be the most kind of, not fired up, but like, what fan base here is going to read this and be, ah, come on. You were a little bit harsh with us here.

See, I'm, maybe I'm going to be proven wrong here. Historically, I've found that when you, when you go negative on teams in the past, fans are pretty cool about it. So I think, you know, if anyone, it's going to be the teams that are the last few years where it's still fresh, you know, maybe some of the people are still working there where those will be the ones that are going to get mad. I don't even if, even if some Islander fan doesn't think that that 90s team, you know, if they want to tell me they like the fish sticks or they didn't think it was that bad,

You know, by that point, everybody's long gone, right? So, you know, your fan instinct to get all defensive doesn't perk up. If anything, there'll be people mad at me because their team didn't get the belt enough or didn't get it. I'll be honest. By the end of it, there were a couple teams I looked at and I was like, I can't believe they never got a title ring. I mean, this is like Roddy Piper never holding the heavyweight belt. This is crazy because, you know, they were just contenders year after year. But it's, again, a lot of competition.

I did what I could do. Okay, my only question before we let you go, do the Philadelphia Flyers at any point make it in between 92 and now? The Philadelphia Flyers are the team I'm thinking of as the team that most surprised me to never, ever hold that title. Come on. With Bob Clark and the Lindross and the Lodrylson? Yeah, even recently, right? I mean, even the last few years, they'd be contenders. Again, they show up as, you know, maybe if I was giving out silver and bronze medals,

but we don't do that in hockey. There's only one title that matters. Only one championship. And it's the heavyweight belt of being the absolute worst franchise. Flyers have not been. Flyers are so bad. They haven't been bad enough to be bad enough for this. Yeah, that's it.

They are the worst franchise at being the worst franchise. Yes. I love it. Think of the goalie. Anyway, all this stuff with them. It's remarkable. Okay. we'll leave it there. I'm super excited to read this. I really enjoyed the piece

on Wednesday because there was a couple of the old stories that I did, like the old old ones that I didn't remember, I didn't know. I am so excited to read the one that comes out on Thursday because it's, yeah, it's going to be a great debate topic. A lot of fun to write and I hope people enjoy it and nobody comes to my house and throws a brick through my window. Yeah. Oh, well, that'd be pretty. But you ever had that happen before?

See, all, like, you're speaking from experience. Nah, no, nobody. Not here. Here or not, I'm very popular here in Ottawa. They love a leaf band. They love, he's in the majority, as he likes to. Exactly. Yeah.

All right. Well, we'll let you go. And, hey, by the way, you're coming into my journalism class tonight, right? Yeah. Yay. With this guy, he's coming in, a guest speaker. Yep. That's so cool.

James, can't wait. Oh, don't do that. Don't do that. They're a prescientable young children. You're right. I'm just going to tell them all my Mendez stories. Yeah. They're like, oh, yeah, you guys are, you guys at university.

Let me tell you about, you know, Professor Mendez here, what he was like back then. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It'll go well. That'll be that. All right. Well, listen, thanks for a drop by. We look forward to your piece on Thursday.

Right on. Thanks, guys. There he goes. Down Goes Brown. Sean McIndoo, joining us. Looking forward to that. Let's bring our next guest right in. Our next guest actually is told, is it tweeted?

It's still tweeted that he's actually like a little bit nervous here, Julian, to join the show. He's nervous to follow, not nervous to join us because he knows us. He's nervous to follow in the footsteps of Down Goes Brown. Eric Stevens. Nobody can do that. Who can really do that? I'm not even going to try. Let's, let's, we're not, let's, we're not going to cast some illusions here.

Yeah. I'm a definite step down. I'm like two steps down. So give us a sense. Eric Stevens, I got the right attire, though. I've got the right attire. Yeah, you've got the right clothing.

We're very hoodie friendly on the end of the coffee show. We all went hoodies, all three of us. Eric Stevens, Wednesday in the United States leading into Thanksgiving is one of the most excited. This is a fun night, right? You know, you know, holiday weekends coming up. What's the holiday weekend? And like what's the turkey set up for Eric Stevens?

Like run us through the meal. Holy cow. You know what? This is going to sound weird. But just trying to get all of us together in one setting is the challenge in itself. I've got three grown boys, two who are off doing their own thing and working. And obviously with my wife and other family members. And just getting us all together in the same room is just a challenge these days.

But I think we're going to pull it off. We've got a, we've got a honey-baked ham-style dinner that I think we will have in mind. It's not exactly honey-baked, but, you know, it's home-cooked. It'll be better. That's still going to be good. Better, especially the stuffing. Cranberry sauce, stuffing. Like, what other traditional stuff?

Like, is there any rolls? Way too many rolls that more rolls than I, you know, really should be eating. A lot of rolls, okay. You know, but, you know, some macaroni, you know, macaroni and cheese in the oven. Not that stuff you make on the stove top that I do often. Breadcrumbs or no breadcrums? Exactly. Oh, yeah.

Y'all got room? You got to. Got to. Y'all got room? I'll book the ticket. I'll book the ticket lot. Julian can be your fourth child. Just come right in.

We got some space. You'll fit it right in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm coming to Cali. Let's do it. Oh, right. Well, hey, listen.

Yeah. Well, why don't we talk, why don't we talk about the, the two teams that are on a role instead of talking about. We're going to talk about hockey. Oh, gosh. We're going to talk about hockey. And the two teams in Southern California, man, what a treat this is, though, to watch these teams.

Because I think, look, L.A. we knew would probably be a pretty good team. But, boy, the ducks have been super fun. Let's just start there because this has been a really fun year, hasn't it, for the Anaheim Ducks and their fans so far? No, you're right. It really is. And they've really taken to this team. You know, they've certainly taken to the coaching change with Gray Cronin now in place and driving them.

And then you've got, you know, who I think is a fantastic rookie and Leo Carlson, who if it weren't for them, you know, occasionally hold them out of a game. here and there, you know, I think would be right in the thick of the early Calder race. I think he's that good. I think he's got stardom, ridden all over him. So you have, you know, him and, you know, once they get, once they get Trevor Zegaris and Jamie Drystell healthy and back up the speed and they'll have a more complete team, but they're far more competitive. They've had the amazing comebacks, you know, early in the year.

You know, veterans like Frank Bertrano are on early season heaters. they've got a lot of good things going for them. And, you know, going into actually, I mean, I know they have tonight's game against Montreal, but it's good timing that you mention both teams because they're playing Friday afternoon on Black Friday in Anaheim. And it'll be good to see, you know, those two compete because they're now a little bit in closer spaces.

The ducks aren't there where the kings are, obviously. But it'll be good to see that both teams being competitive at the same time going into that game. You went into more detail on the ducks and how fun it's been for them. What about with the LA Kings? I mean, they're in the top three in the Pacific Division right now. They've won three in a row. They've been amazing on the road.

The other night, they won their eighth road game of the year. They have yet to lose. What's it been like following that team and seeing their success in the early part of the season? Well, I think what it really is is that they went into the season with high expectations, maybe even higher than, say, the general public, or at least those beyond L.A., those beyond the Kings fan base or even the organization. I mean, they totally view themselves as a club that should take the next step in terms of winning playoff series and maybe making a run, maybe getting back closer to where they were in that 2012 to 2014 time period where they were

where they were competing for and winning championships. I think in some ways, they're still kind of a little bit undersold here in terms of being a potential Stanley Cup contender. Now, you've got to prove it by winning series in the playoffs. And that's the final frontier, especially Todd McClellan as well, because he hasn't done one in a lot of years here.

But there are deepest can be. Maybe outside of Vegas, whatsoever, they might have the deepest forward group, you know, in the league. I think they've got like now nine players with four goals or more already in the first, you know, 15, 16 games of the season. They're strong undie, and Cam Talbot's given them the goaltending that they look for, and he's doing it at a bargain rate. I mean, he's been much better than I think everyone anticipated because they just need somebody capable of back there in that. He's been better than that. Yeah. And, you know, speaking of the goal time, because I think Cam, obviously I covered Cam last year,

and it wasn't the best year for him in Ottawa. He's bounced back. He's looked good. Just staying in SoCal for a second. John Gibson's got a 926 save percentage, which I think is probably a big part, right, of Anaheim's successes. This is a guy that, for whatever reason, Eric, the last three years, four years, people are like, ooh, John Gibson's lost it.

He's not the same guy. Do you feel like he's kind of back right now for Anaheim? You know, he is really such an interesting guy because you're right about the narrative with him and how much of it has been him and how much of it has been just the team not being good, not very good, and bottoming out last year, you know, really for the last, you know, four years. I mean, if you looked at him closely, you know, I would say that you had pretty much the same goaltender in those two. really disparate, you know, realms of his career when the team was winning and when it was obviously struggling. Now, did his play maybe slip in recent years? Yeah, I would say that it did, you know, slip some of that. I would say that he's part of some of that reason, but, I mean, he just didn't have a really quality defense in front of him last year. You know, how many goaltenders are going to be

able to effectively survive, say, a 40-shot, you know, assault on a daily basis, night after night over in an 82-game season. You know, so I'm not being a John Gibson apologist here because I've seen it. And like said, I've seen some of the slippage as well. But I think he also, I think you're seeing a re-rejuvenated goalie here. I think you're seeing one that's really responding to. Not top-tier defense being played in front of them, but more competitive defense and a team that's seemingly on the rise. And with some good young talent that figures to be part of the picture here going forward over the next few years.

So I think you're seeing someone that's really responding to that. And he probably realizes at this stage too that he's got to lift his game back up as well. we've spent a lot of time talking about some good stuff going on in Anaheim in Los Angeles, so we have to spend some time talking about San Jose. We mentioned L.A. being 8-0 and O'N-O. on the road. The San Jose sharks are 0-8-0 on the road. What have you made of their season? We all know how bad they've been, but you've gotten to watch games.

You're falling closer than anyone else here. What have you made of this god-awful season for the San Jose Sharks? Look, they were going to be bad. Okay. Let's face it. I mean, you look at that roster and say even if they had Logan Couture, you know, in the lineup and healthy whatsoever. You look at that up and down that roster and it just wasn't going to match up against most NHL teams, if not almost all other ones. That's just what it is.

That's just where they are in their evolution. That's where Mike Greer is at. He's been very upfront in stating and emphasizing how much of a rebuild this is and is going to be. And I mentioned Logan, sure, they haven't had him in the lineup. He hasn't played at all because of injuries and setbacks and whatnot. I was up there recently for when right after Greer addressed the club because I think with the Sharks in San Jose. The key here is to, yes, they're not going to win many games. They're probably going to win the fewest games in the league. And you hope that they do not, you know, reach a point

to where they're challenging, you know, the 74, 75 Washington Capitals for ineptitude whatsoever. But after those twin 10-goal games, they allowed against Vancouver and Pittsburgh, Mike Greer stepped in and really addressed the team, a one-way address and just said that no matter how the roster looks, no matter, no matter that the fact that they are in the throes of a major rebuild, they've got to compete. They're still an NHL club. And you've got to show up and compete and not allow that, especially on home ice. you know, with loyal fans, at least the ones that do still come to the games, you know, shelling out money, you know, to see a product, even if it's a badly diminished product.

So this is going to be about trying to be competitive and seeing players like William, young players like William Eklund really, you know, step forward and progress because he's going to be part of their future along with, you know, kids like Will Smith and others down the line. Terrific stuff. Well, listen, we wish you the best. Set up an extra seat, though, at the dinner table because Julian sounded like he was quasi-serious. You found a way to be just as entertaining, if not better than DGP, off of the Thanksgiving spread alone. So I have no idea why you're going. That's wonderful that you say that, but I know you're lying. That's not completely true. Amazing. But listen, happy, happy Thanksgiving to you and the family and hope, you know, safe travels for everybody.

if they're coming to you. We wish you the best the holiday season. We love your coverage of those Cali teams, and I'm sure we'll get you back in the pod real soon. Hey, thanks, guys, and enjoy those football games tomorrow. Oh, we will. We always do. We always do.

There goes Eric Stevens. Does a terrific job covering all things California for us with the athletic. So, Julian, let's wrap up the Wednesday, shall we? And as we looked at the schedule, we said, what did we say? 14, 14 games. And there's one game that I know you wanted to highlight a little bit because it involves two of the marquee rookies in this league,

two of the guys taken at the top of the draft and in Adam Fantillion, Connor Bedard. And, you know, this is a matchup of, you know, marquee young players in the game, right? Yeah. Like, I don't like the fact that that matchup kind of sprung on me. and this and like you wake up and it's like oh it just so happens these guys are playing against each other i don't know i i get it we cover a sport that is very team oriented it's all about the crest and logo

on the front and not the name on the back but i thought there was just a genuine marketing opportunity to be done with connor badard versus adam fantilly two exciting players that we're going to look at for years to come off of their talent and they're both top three picks i mean baudard is probably going to win the Calder. He's after a great start, obviously. Don't sleep on what Adam Fantili's been able to do in Columbus. I know he's fed up with losing two. But yeah, I just kind of wish that we saw a little bit more. I would like the like the matchup was built up to be a little bit bigger of a thing.

But I just don't get that sentiment that we've had that. But I could be wrong. Okay. You'll you'll have to forgive Aaron Portsline. If he, if he wasn't pumping the tires of this matchup, I mean, I'm not giving here. Let's not be a story share on Airports line at all. Yeah. Tell you what,

the Columbus Blue Jackets have been going through a lot these last few games with I would argue. I would argue. And Johnny Gidroh not playing up to snuff either. Would you not agree that based on Down Goes Brown's rankings of, you know,

dysfunctional, who holds the championship belt, that right now today on the 22nd of November, leading into Thanksgiving, that it's the Columbus blue jackets who own that title, not the Oilers, not the sharks?

Like, consider, The Babcock thing is part of it. You consider they bench Goodrow, they bench line A. They're on the precipice of setting a franchise record, losing streak. If they lose, it'll be 10 in a row. Like, wouldn't you argue that of all the teams in the league, like dysfunction, they might have the current belt?

I mean, they definitely are contenders for it. I mean, you could argue if you're doing it King of the Mountain style, like, who's going to have it at the top? like since since they the bapcock thing happened in the summer for them like that kind of puts them at the forefront and then san jose and edmonton are kind of clawing them for it i still feel i mean that would be really tough to give columbus third place between san jose and edmonton considering what they've gone through right like that would be really tough to do but columbus is right there and that's a team i mean i don't know what emminton's going to do with their front office and and they're i mean they already got rid of their coach right like Like, we've seen that, like, okay, it's really a goaltending thing. San Jose, as bad as it's been, they'll put themselves as a position for a top three pick. What do you do with Columbus? I feel like we're on the verge of, at least in talking to different people, we're on the verge of seeing genuine changes happen.

We thought Yarmou Kekalainen should have lost his job after the handling of the Mike Babcock situation. Yeah. He's probably going to lose his job. Was that due for John Davidson, too, the president of operations over there as well? Like, I think of all three of those teams we're talking about here, that team at the very least is most like this might be the first to try to clean up what they've got going on. Santos at the very least, we know and expected them to be good. And if they put themselves in the position when they get a number one overall pick, that's at least a good thing.

Edmonton, they still have Carter, David, and Leon Drysidal. Columbus, what do you do? What do you do with that roster? What do you do with those underperforming players? I don't know. Maybe I'm talking myself into saying that they should be it. but like that is a team that needs to be considered in that discussion from from from what DGB was discussing earlier.

Yeah, no, I think so too. Before we dip out of here, the winter classic jerseys for the New Year's Day game between Seattle and Vegas were unveiled. Now they were inadvertently unveiled the Seattle ones. Anyway, what, last week when the Utah Jazz just randomly had guys rolling up in Seattle Cracken jerseys. I still don't get why that was a thing.

Why was it that like, yeah, why the Utah jazz? I think it's cool that they unveiled it, but like why the Utah jazz? What does that have to do with? I mean, is it just, is it, is there like a very hidden like expansion thing where it's like, oh, you would love to see hockey up in, hey, you want team up in Utah. Maybe you should not be out here, you know, throwing these jerseys. Salt Lake stuff, right? Like, that's the rumor, right?

Salt Lake. Yeah, absolutely. But I like these jerseys. I think the red lettering or so I guess numbering, I guess is the way to phrase it, look sharp. Like I want a crack in jersey just to wear. I want that jersey. Like I don't know.

Have you ever like like, was there ever a point in your life where you just like rocked a jersey like with a hoodie underneath this like a style? Like I would rock the Seattle. Oh yeah. But that was more like a high school for me. But yes, absolutely. I guess it could be a high school thing. I don't know.

I feel like I could do that now. Like my, I love the idea. You could do that now because you're younger and cooler. Me, I, I would do it now and people be like, you're trying too hard there, buddy.

I guess that's fair. But like I, I, that's fair. Like that jersey, uh, Viennaheim Ducks 30th anniversary jersey. Like I,

I want to get to, I want to, I want to get to, I want to start wearing jerseys like out and about with hoodies now. Like I'll do it like on, on, on podcast recordings, just to be like,

all right, cool, like this is just the style. But I want to bring that back. I want to be able to do that where, like, I'm hanging around, doing my thing, going to a party,

going to a bar, going, like, just doing my thing. And I'm just wearing, like, a really good fit with like a cool hoodie underneath.

Like, it's cold outside. Literally, as we're talking right now, it is snowing outside my window. Like, that's, that's ideal time to be wearing

stuff like that. And I think the Seattle Crackwood should be on my wish list. and it feels like when you see the snow falling, the holiday season is upon us and it certainly is for our American listeners. So we want to share kind of what Canadians

do for American Thanksgiving because first of all, we know that you in the United States have no idea when our Thanksgiving is, nor do you care. But it's in early October. Thanks for asking. But we love American Thanksgiving. I'm not going to lie to you.

Because we get wall-to-wall football obviously starting with the lions and then me as a big Dallas Cowboys fan, I'm there. And there's a lot of people, I'll tell you this, there's a lot of people in Canada who take Thanksgiving Thursday off work or work a half day.

And they're making, obviously, not as many people here would make turkey, but a lot of people here will do a huge spread, maybe they'll do some chili, maybe they'll do some whatever. And it's like, it's a quite, we piggyback off your holiday down there. I want you to know that we appreciate it

And we love it. We're like Thanksgiving adjacent up here. And I remember, I remember when I was at Syracuse, uh, doing my grad degree. And like some people wouldn't go back home for, for Thanksgiving.

I mean, there were people that would, but around this time, there would be a lot of people having friendsgiving. I only, you know, you know the term friends giving. Friendsgiving.

Oh yeah. Going, going out to different friendsgiving parties. Yeah. Thank you, America. Thank you, America. Actually, I remember one other year when I was still in Montreal and I was in school. And one of my good friends at the time, their family's from Texas. So even though my friend had school that day, like, they were still watching their family at home was like watching football.

And they actually, like, I had a break in between classes and like my friend invited me and a few other friends over. And we were in their basement like watching football. We were watching the Dallas Cowboys. I don't think, I mean, they're not even a Dallas Cowboys fan. I think they were a Houston Texans fan. But like we were just over at their house just like watching football and enjoying ourselves. Wow. It's a ton of fun and we love, like I said, we love. Yeah, thank you, America for giving us a fun Thursday in the middle of November that we otherwise wouldn't have had.

So we're looking forward to it. I always look forward to the Thursday of Thanksgiving. So I want to thank everybody for listening. And we do want to wish, just a very sincere, happy Thanksgiving to our American listeners to the Athletic Hockey Show. I know it's a big weekend for you. So if you're traveling and maybe you're listening to us while you're traveling, we hope that you get to your destination safely and you get a chance to spend time with the people that matter most to you. And we're just happy we could be along for the ride.

So that does it for the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And, you know, Thanksgiving Thursday, Julian, means one thing and one thing only. Oh, Black Friday. Oh, yes. Black Friday. Yes. And Black Friday is the day where the sales, they're coming. We got a great one here with the Athletic.

Dollar a month or 12 months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show, right? Yes, yes, yes. Take advantage of that while it's on and popping, ladies and gentlemen. Early Christmas gift gift for your dad or your mom, if they're very much into sports, if they're very much into hockey content. We have the best editorial team in the business. If you're into coverage of soccer, then the F1 vertical up, NBA, NFL, college athletics,

like you've got you covered at the athletic. It is worth it. So take advantage of that sale. Yeah, dollar a month for 12 months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. And because it's Thanksgiving Thursday, we're giving the crew a well-deserved, much needed day off.

So our next athletic hockey show will come your way Friday. Prospect series, Max, Corey, Chris Peter's going to drop by with Scott Wheeler. They're going to get you caught up on all the prospect-related stuff. So that is our next edition. The Athletic Hockey Show comes your way on Friday. So enjoy the holidays for those who observe it. And Julian and I will be back with you on Monday. Peace.