The Athletic Hockey Show - Thanksgiving NHL standings a benchmark for playoff position. Tristan Jarry leads the Pittsburgh Penguins and can Jack Campbell make the Olympic team for team USA?

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

With Thanksgiving fast approaching, Sean and guest co-host Max Bultman take a look at the NHL standings. 80 percent of teams that are in playoff spots on Thanksgiving, end up making the playoffs. Sean and Max take a look at what teams currently in playoff spots will falter and make way for three teams currently out of the playoff picture. The boys discuss the merits of the Columbus Blue Jackets, Detroit Red Wings, St. Louis Blues, Nashville Predators, Anaheim Ducks, NY Rangers, NY Islanders Winnipeg Jets and Philadelphia Flyers as they all vie for playoff position. Josh Yohe, the Penguins beat writer for the Athletic joins Gentille and Bultman to provide an update on the Pens who went 3-0 in Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg, led by Tristan Jarry who gave up 1 goal in 9 periods. Plus, the guys touch on the Pens unsung heroes led by Teddy Blueger, Danton Heinen and Brock McGinn and the latest on the Penguins sale to Fenway sports group.In Two cents, Max and Sean wonder if Jack Campbell can make the US Olympic team as the third netminder, and if Quebec City really is in line for a relocated franchise as the premiere of the province recently intimated, or is he just looking for votes in the next election? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good afternoon. Welcome to the Tuesday show for the athletic hockey show. We're two days ahead of the one true Thanksgiving. It's the only version of the holiday that's recognized on this podcast. Should be the only version of this holiday that's recognized across the United States. Producer Jeff has just dropped into the video call to give me the finger. He's a proud Canadian. We don't need to get into that.

But happy holiday week, everybody. Jean-Gin-Silly here. No Custance yet again. Sorry for all six of you that that will probably some kind of deal breaker. But he'll be back eventually. He's doing, as I said last week, much more, much more important things than BSing with me about nonsense. But we have another really good replacement here. Max Boltman covers the Detroit Red Wings for the athletic.

What's up, dude? Not a lot, man. I'm starting to develop a theory, though, that Craig is, he's like the word and phrase bands that you guys have accepted. it since the dawn of the show have finally gotten to him. And he's taking all this time because he knows he can't string together a month straight without them. It's like it's a prison of his own design. Like he's worse with that stuff than I am.

He's got way more like vocal, vocal tics and vocal crutches than I do. So he's like run out of stuff to say. He's tired of plugging his book. All these things we hear from him every week. He's just taking a couple breaks around. But he'll be back. So me and Max are here. We're going to carry you through not the last pre-holiday episode, but, you know, the last

episode of the show that matters, as I've said. And we have Josh Yoey on the show. It's a dude I've worked with quite a bit over the years. Both Pittsburgh guys, he's obviously the Penguins Beat Rider here. It's been a big week in Pittsburgh, dude. Not just because of the sales stuff either. I mean, it's obviously that was the big, the big bit of news that dropped last week is that the Lemieux group selling to Fenway Sports.

You know, that's a big deal in and of itself, and we're certainly going to get into that with Josh. But the other thing is that the penguins are kind of making the move that a lot of us were expecting from them. And not a moment too soon. A couple, they've got whatever, six points out of their last six. And it was time to get moving. And I think that team did a good job to stay in the race and keep their head above water,

you know, over the first whatever six weeks of the same. season because no Crosby, no Malkin, injuries across the board, COVID problems, blah, blah, blah. They did a good job to, you know, their points percentage was about, about 50%, about 50% a couple, like last week or whatever. It's a miracle they got to that point, honestly. I think Brian Burke had kind of spoken about that last week, right? But they're on the move. They had like a pretty fruitful Canada trip and Josh was there for all of it.

Yeah, I mean, they gave up like one goal and the whole swing. right? Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg, I think they only gave up one goal the entire Canadian swing. Jari's playing well. I think that's sort of, you know, we'll get into detail with us with Josh, you know, later on.

But I think that was a big storyline for their season was like just how good could Triss and Jari play before people felt some level of confidence in him to like keep it together moving forward because he's been really inconsistent at best in the regular season for his career so far. and obviously he hit the self-destruct button against the Islanders in the playoffs last year.

So he had a lot of proving to do. And I'm still not sure that he's there. But, you know, like you said, dude, three straight really good games. His safe percentage is up around 930 for the season. You know, he's been really good. And I think that's one of the interesting things about them, right? Is he good enough for them to have real faith in him moving forward? Not just the fan base, but that front office as well because, you know, you look at Casey DeSmith.

and all that stuff. It's a really interesting goal-tending situation. Well, I mean, is he kind of an individualized version of living the Toronto Maple Leafs experience where almost nothing until the playoffs is even going to register for him, like in either direction? Dude, I felt that way. It's funny. I'm feeling that way about the Leafs now kind of in tandem with Jari. Like, there's a certain level, whether you're talking about a team or a player,

that once they hit some level of excitement or some level of excitement or some level. of confidence just sets in inevitably, whether you're talking about the Toronto mate beliefs and everything they've done and not done over the last 10, 20, 50 years, or you're talking about Tris and Jari, who, I mean, single-handedly, you know, dropped the playoff series of a few months ago. I think that, I think that team and that player are kind of both at the point now where you feel like, you feel like you can have some confidence in them, you feel like you can bet at least a little bit on them. You know, if only in the regular season, right?

100%. This was not playoff hockey this week, but I will say he did just go, his last two games were head-to-head with two of the goys who have played the best in the league this season. Jack Campbell and Connor Hallibuck, went toe-to-to-to-with them,

won those games. You win 3-1 and 2-0. Those are goalie wins, right, in the NHL. You give up two or even three goals in the NHL and you give yourself a really good chance to win. And that's what Montreal, or sorry, Toronto and Winnipeg did. to Pittsburgh, but Jari was better.

And so now the penguins, I think I woke up today. I don't know if they're in it by playoff, by a points percentage, but I believe they're in a playoff spot as we speak right now by points. Yeah, I fell asleep during most of that third period last night against Winnipeg because I'm, because I'm old now. So I woke up with five minutes left in the game and it was like, oh, they're up 3-1, what happened? But yeah, I mean, it's proving time.

It's puckering time because of the kind of new age NHL adage that we've all kind of internalized over the last couple years, right? Where it's like, if you're not in a playoff spot, come American Thanksgiving, you are in deep, deep shit. And it's, it's as true now as it was a couple years ago, honestly, because we haven't, we haven't had a normal season. We haven't had, there were no games on Thanksgiving last year. And season before that blew up. But the rule of thumb, and I know Elliot Friedman was one of the first guys that I can remember kind of bringing this up. And Dom wrote about it extensively. a couple years ago. But the rule of thumb for anybody who doesn't know is it around 80,

is it around 80% of the teams that are in playoff spots on American Thanksgiving. And again, or no, excuse me, on Thanksgiving, there is no such thing as Canadian Thanksgiving. Around 80% of those teams that are in those spots on that Thursday in late November end up making the playoffs. So we're here, dude. We're two, we're two weeks out. So you can look at these teams and in obviously that's because the loser point right like it's just tough to it's just tough to make up tough to make up grounds when you got when you got three point when you got three point games but it's time to do the assessment it's time to go through these teams and figure out you know who we can kind of pencil in and then who of the which of the 2.7 team statistically or like

whatever it is we should we should be worried about like it's it's time to it's time to kind of calculate that. Yeah, the math says three of the teams that are in will, about three of the teams that we're in will fall out. About three of the teams that are out will work their way in. So I guess we should, we should probably pick who's who. All right. We're just going to, we're going to go through, like go through the wild card standings as, as indicated on NHL.com. We'll start by points, but we'll go by point percentage too, because that's just as important. It's wild, dude. How many, how many, there's such a disparity in games played. even still now.

There's, there's a lot of outlier teams, whether you're talking about Boston, who's, you know, played whatever, eight games in 24 days or something crazy. You know,

you got Philly playing 16 games and whatever. So points percentage is your friend in this exercise. We're definitely, we're definitely going to use it because you have teams playing as few as 15 games, then teams playing as many as 20, right? There's a pretty serious, a pretty serious disparity there.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, you look at the Islanders who played, what, two home games? One home game? Have they even,

have they played two home games? home games? Yeah, two home games. Yeah, they played, they played two because they lost, they lost both of them. They got them in, them in Seattle kind of are working, are working in the same boat. They got that new arena bumper at the start of the season in case, in case something, in case something bad happened. And there was like a two week, you know, a two week or three week or four week, you know, backlog in, in, in construction, right? Yeah, I mean, they're the team that, like, should be the, the most, like, scared at this point based on that, that old Axiom. They're, I mean, they're 5-8-2 way out of the playoffs right now, but the same time they have

all those games in hand, and they're like all home games. And so they're like the one team that you could say in that metro, like you really like their odds to shoot up, even though they're way back from everybody else. It's true. It's true. They got five games in hand, but they're 5-8-2. They've got 12 points. Their points percentage is 400, which is a third from last in the Eastern Conference which is insane it's getting dark early for them because you have

yours are they're behind in the in the metro alone they remind Carolina in Washington in New York and Columbus in Pittsburgh and Philly in New Jersey and then and then comes the Islanders their eighth in the wild card standings which is which is that's that's the killer Right, dude, there's so many teams that they have to hopscotch there.

And they're playing, everyone thought that like once they, once they open that arena, and it seems great and all that stuff, everyone's excited about it. They go in it and immediately lose two straight. Their losing streak is it's six. Everybody love this team. Dom's model love them. I picked them to go to the cup final finally. someone someone who I'm who I'm pretty tight with pick them to pick pick pick pick

them to win it all I don't I don't I don't I don't know who that would exactly who is that I don't know who that would be I like what it I they're out I'm I'm ready I'm ready to call it like I'm not calling it I'm not I'm not calling it but I will say I'm way way more worried about the number of teams than I am the gap like I'm not sweat absolutely that's it like like you you look at that in a vacuum and you're like, all right, you know, it's the Islanders. They're still pretty good. They have these games in hand and blah, blah. And you look at those wildguards saying as you're like, I don't, like, I'm not sure how they're going to hopscotch all these, all these teams, right?

They're four points. Okay, they have, they have, they have three games in hand on the savers, and there are four points behind them and playing terribly. Matt, Matt Barzell, not having a good season. There's like plenty, there's plenty of stuff to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the process hasn't, hasn't, hasn't been there. The results, the results certainly have. It's, it's scary. And I, look, I know Arthur Staples talked about them a lot on the, on the Monday show with, with Ian and Haley. But, it's the Pennsylvania teams that would scare me from the Islanders, because number one, they only have one game in hand on the flyers.

And while I do think Carter Hart is, you know, making the flyers look a lot better than they really are right now. that's a big gap. It's seven points with just one game in hand. And, you know, that's a tough road to make up with the loser point. And it's Pittsburgh, as they come on strong here, like Pittsburgh, they do have more games in hand on. But, like, that's a team that has just as much reason to think that they're going to get a lot better over the, you know, remaining 60 whatever games of this season as, as the

Islanders do because they're getting healthy. They got Sidback. Like, I think there's every reason to believe the Islanders can get improved by just as much as, sorry, the Penguins can improve by just as much. as the Islanders can. Charlie O'Connor wrote something good today, just kind of outlining. Because you get the results for Philly and it's, and it's, you're like, okay, what's, what's the problem here?

They're eight five and three. You know, they're, they're keeping it together. Once you open the hood a little bit, though, stuff gets ugly for them, right? Their underlines are bad. Their power play is abysmal, probably long-term-ish injuries. They're Ryan Ellis and Kevin Hayes. But there's reason to be skeptical of them. And they're in there, they were in there as recently as, is yesterday based on points.

And they have two games, two games in hand on Pittsburgh. Depending on how you want to classify that, I think they're, I think they're in some danger of falling out. But the one, the one we got to talk about specifically is Columbus, right? Like, credit to them, six, four and O in their last 10, they're on a little bit of a heater. the underlying numbers are improving. They're in that wild card spot based on points and point percentage, which is worth noting. But man, they're the one, right?

Like, that's the team that I look at and you're like, God bless them for doing what they've done so far. But lots of reasons to think that this isn't sustainable. And, you know, if a team like, all it's going to take is a team like, you know, Boston playing enough games to get up there in Pittsburgh riding the ship, which it certainly seems like, seems like they've done. Columbus is the team that's in position in the east where you're like, I don't think this is going to last, right?

If we're looking for three, they are number one with a bullet on the team, so they're going to fall out. And I mean, look, I saw Columbus last week and I thought they showed a lot of fight. They came back on the Red Wings late. I really like Cole Sillinger. their big rookie out of the 2021 draft. But to look at the overall 10 and 6 start for them, I see a ton of schedule wins here. Arizona and Seattle, their first two wins to open the season.

They had Detroit. They had Buffalo. They had another one with Arizona. They got Dallas early in the year when Dallas was, I mean, Dallas is still probably, I wouldn't say, woken up yet. I don't think that's going to happen at all. They got Colorado at the start of November before Colorado turned back into a juggernaut, right? Like, I'm not trying to take, I guess I am trying to take it away from Columbus.

I'm not trying to disrespect Columbus, but I am taking it away from Columbus. I do not think, I mean, they're the team that's fallen out of this. Well, the funny part of all this is like, we're looking at this last night, right, when we're going over the standings. And like, not that I would ever imply that the Detroit Red Wings were going to be an actual, an actual playoff contender. But I think they're a great example of how scheduling can lie this early in a season, right? because we're, I mean, dude, obviously you're as tapped into them as anybody. I don't even think I quite realized how much, because everyone's, everyone's like, you know, oh, good for the Red Wings, like, more exciteders this and Lucas Raymond's that.

And everyone's excited to see them do anything after being in the wilderness for so long. And again, not to not to disrespect them or take anything away from them. But like, you look at that early schedule, not just the teams that they were playing overall, but the times that they caught the teams that they were playing. They caught Vegas at the absolute bottom, right? They caught Chicago at the absolute bottom. And they fattened up on them, right? So that's how you see Vegas.

That's how you see Detroit, you know, 19 points and 20 games, 475 point percentage. They're theoretically in the thick of it here. But you were going over their schedule, dude, and it's wild, right? Yeah, I mean, the wins are Vancouver, Columbus, Chicago. They do have two really good wins at Washington and against Edmonton, back when Edmonton was like 50% power play complete death machine. Those are their two. And I think those are probably the two wins that sparked the most dialogue.

But yeah, beyond that, you mentioned catching Vegas at the right time. O.T. win over Buffalo. O.T. went over Montreal. Like the signs were there that this was not built to last when you just looked at where the bulk of those points were coming from. Right. And now it's like, I mean, just tomorrow night, St. Louis, that's a tough one. Buffalo.

Then they're at Boston. And then in December, their schedule gets pretty ugly, right? They got games against the Islanders, which are never tough, more against St. Louis, Columbus, Carolina, Minnesota, another Columbus game. The Devils, the Rangers, like, there's not the only, like, pencil it in win you have for them in December and whatever. Maybe I shouldn't even say this, but like Seattle, right? Those are just two whatever teams kind of going at it. So, you know, they're an example, I think, of, you know, the benefits of soft, of soft early season scheduling. The other team I want to talk about was the Rangers.

Their third in the, they're third in the Metro. They're 11, 4, and 3. Points percentage is 694, which is fourth in the conference. It's, you know, whatever. That's all great. They also have a goal differential of zero, which is not. something you typically see from it from a team that's 11 4 and 3 or whatever it is. Their X goal is 46.05 which is third from the bottom in the NHL.

You know, they're down there with the Blackhawks and the coyotes and the senators and the sharks and some pretty some pretty bad pretty whatever teams. Do you think that they've banked enough points when you look at that division and they have 25, so they're five points ahead of Columbus and Pittsburgh, six ahead of Philly. Did they have enough points banked to kind of ride this out and stay in either the three or the four spot there? Everything in me is screaming that this is goalie. This is Chris Kreider shooting 25% or whatever he's shooting right now. But you make a very good point that at some point the gap just gets too crazy.

because they're right there with Washington. They have a better points percentage than Tampa Bay right now. You know what I mean? Like they are that far ahead. And at the quarter point of the season, you know, it's still early, but they've given themselves a huge cushion. They're not even one of the teams that's played like 20 games. I think they're still 17, 18.

Right. So, like, you know, to have 25 points bank through 18 games, this isn't like a Columbus situation, right, where they're 20 or, you know, I don't know, man. It's tough for me. Like, I get all the reasons that this is going on. It's just Thuriken's been great and blah, blah, blah. But, oh, brother, I don't, it's tough for me to look at a team that's two points behind

the capitals, even if they, even if they regress here and kind of fall back to where we think they can or will or whatever, it's tough to imagine them falling out of it entirely. So, like, where are we at in the east? Our teams, our teams falling out of position. We'll go with one. It's certainly, it's certainly Columbus. Yesterday, when they were in position, would have been, would have been the flyers. Because, again, good as Carter Hart's been.

There's just, there's a lot, there's a lot for them to work to work through there. And we'll put an asterisk next to the Rangers, because I think we're both, we're both squishy on them. We want to get there. In some wild, I know, it would be, dude, it would, it'd be fun. I always, I always root for chaos. I don't know, man. It just feels like it feels like they've banked.

They've banked a few too many at this point. We shall see. That's my question for you. How about St. Louis? We talk mostly east so far. Yeah. But St. Louis is in it right now by points percentage. Do you see, and by points.

Do you see them sticking around up there in the playoffs? I think Dom has like poisoned the discourse on the blues with me because I've just like internalized the fact that they're, that they're trash. I don't know if I don't even know if that's I don't even know if that's true but the the underlying the underlines are bad right like they're I don't know if they have um I don't know if they really have the sort of goalie who you can who you can rely on to go on a heater like it's not like a ranger situation where you can say like yeah they're not that good but there's going to be stretches where shistern you know steals three or four for them

or gets get some five points out of eight that they otherwise otherwise should otherwise shouldn't have had. I don't know, dude. I'm honestly not sure where I stand on St. Louis. I think Luce Chishin has poisoned the well for me. Well, if we have to find teams here, they're the obvious Western team that you want to gravitate toward, but I will say they do have kind of the push of young talent and new additions here.

Like, you know, Cairo and Thomas have been everything that St. Louis wanted them to be so far this year. Butchnevich, like, coming in has been a big boost. I mean, I don't think he's dominating at like a crazy level, but he's come in and immediately been a really productive player for them. I can see it. I do think goaltending is still my question for them. Like, Bittington's been good, but to your point, not elite to the point that you're going to say he's going to, you know,

take it for two weeks and just give you that seven, one and two stretch that teams kind of need to cement themselves as a playoff team in a loser Point League. But, you know, up front, like, you're starting to see a team that has the blend of depth and high end and veteran and young to do it. No, definitely. I love that forward group, right? Like, I think that's a really interesting group of players on paper.

And the results have been fine. You just look at some of the underlines and you're just like, I don't know how this is going to hold up for an 82 game season. What I will say is. is what? They're tied for second in the division right now with Winnipeg. The abs are in the rear view mirror, right? Like they've, they've, they've turned it on in the last couple weeks. They're doing it, doing it without McKinnon, 9-5 and one overall, 633 point percentage.

Yes, they're fifth in the division right now. But, you know, that's just based on, that's based on standings points, right? And so it's impossible for me to look for me to look at this and not believe that by the time it's all said and done, the Colorado, who by the way has only played 15 points, that's the reason they're not in there already. It's not because the slow start. It's because they just haven't, you know, they're three games behind St. Louis and Winnipeg. I think the question then kind of turns into who do you like more St. Louis, St. Louis or the Jets. and they're like they're weirdly similar teams right like they're their teams that have Winnipeg Winnipeg's five on five numbers are better now than they have been over the last

couple years but they're sort of similar in the respect that both have kind of outpaced their their percentages over the last over the last couple years like I think I would soft lean towards Winnipeg to you know in terms of staying in the top three if you think that the top two or some combo of Minnesota and in Colorado but that's an interesting one man the central The central division is fascinating to me because everybody was talking it up as being tough and competitive and whatever. People thought that Dallas was going to bounce back and people thought that Chicago was going to make the leap and yada yada. And those teams are just not, they're just not, they're not real factors right now. But you do have that, you know, you do have that group at three, four, five that that makes you, that makes you wonder.

Well, the more I look at this, I think they both might make it, St. Louis and Lurke. Like, you look at the Pacific, and I'm not sure any of those teams that aren't in it currently, and we can talk about the merits of whether we think Anaheim is legit or not in a minute, but I certainly don't see the Pacific getting two wild cards. They might get one, but I don't think they're getting two. The question that turns into, like, who are the two wild cards, right? Like, you think, you assume Vegas is going to move up at some point. Nashville is in position, and they're the ones that are, they're the ones that are,

that are in trouble, right? like if you figure that if you figure that the wild card spots end up being some combo of Vegas, Colorado, Winnipeg, and or St. Louis, right? In some order, Nashville is sort of the one who you're expecting to fall off, right? I mean, they're and they're playing well. Matthew Shane's playing well. U.C. Soros is one of the best goals in the league and blah, blah, blah. But it's tough to look at them and think they're going to be hanging around.

Also, I'm willing to say that Anaheim is going to be. to be in the mix toward the end. Like, I'm, I'm okay. I'm okay with saying that just because of how soft the rest of the Pacific is, honestly. Yeah, that's a good reason. I mean, they get the other California teams there, and they're still being propped up by immense rookie and young player scoring. Like, it's fair to treat with a little bit of skepticism,

although, you know, Troy Terry, I think, has probably done this long enough now this season to buy it. But you got to see it from a lot of their other young guys. So, you know, I think it's fair to buy in. but I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, I'm not there yet. Give me, give me 10 more games. It's a soft buy. All right. So where do we, where do we stand on this? We got, we got, we got the blue jackets falling out. We got the predators falling out. And we're watching, intently watching, uh, the Rangers and to a lesser extent, uh, St. Louis and Winnipeg in the central. It's settled.

We're going to lose, we're going to lose two teams this year and instead of three. I think I'm in on Winnipeg. I'm in on Winnipeg. Uh-huh. You, you, you, you, you reference, reference that poor soul friend of yours who had the Islanders in the Cup, I would dare say he had him over Winnipeg in the Cup. Oh my God. I didn't know that part of it, dude. That's ugly. He was trying to go out on a limb and really call a shot. And I don't know how that's going to work out for him. But, love it. Too early to punt. Too early. And again, like one of the, one of the teams we gave short shift there was the Penguins because we knew we were going to be talking to Yoey. We're going to jump to that talk with him with him next. Lots of stuff happening in Pittsburgh.

very, very busy on and off the ice. No better guy to talk about it than Josh. We'll be with him after we hit this commercial break. All right, we're like to be joined by my buddy Josh Yoey calling from the side of the road, somewhere on the other side of the Peace Bridge. Dude, did the 5 a.m. flight from Winnipeg to Toronto and then the drive back down, drive back down through Buffalo to Pittsburgh. Good God, dude.

Yeah, I'm coming to you, I believe, from Patty Kane's hometown in Hamburg, New York. And I wanted to get out of Winnipeg quickly. I wanted to get home ASAP. So that's just the way things roll. But it is a pleasure to be joining you, gentlemen. The pleasure. The pleasure is ours. All right.

So let's talk about this Canada trip. I think that was what the penguins needed. That group did a good job of keeping it around 500, given everything that was swirling, all the injuries, all the COVID stuff, right? But it was time to move. I think when you look at the standing, and there's all those teams ahead of them, you know, come Thanksgiving. It's like you got to start stacking points here.

So I think six and three games against the Canadian teams was a necessary move there, right? Yeah, and that's the thing with these penguins. Like they've had guys like Rodriguez and Dan and Hinen who've actually really saved the day and been very good. But they weren't going to be, you know, 10 and 4 after 14 games with those guys leading the way either. So that's just the way it is. And I actually think they're in perfectly good position given everything they have been through. But you're right, they needed to put some points together. And I didn't know if, you know, at Toronto and out Winnipeg were necessarily the places to do so.

But to their credit, they were pretty good. And I guess the biggest story of Alshan is Tristan Jari. I mean, look at the numbers. He's one of the best goalies in the league right now. He was the biggest question mark entering the season. He has been a rock. I mean, we were talking about Jared before we had John, Josh. And our question is, like, with a guy who had the playoffs he had last year, like, how much stock do you put into the regular season at all with him?

Like, he's obviously been unreal to go through the stretch that he just had in Canada and give up one goal. Like, it doesn't get better than that in the NHL. But especially, like, from the Penguins' decision-making standpoint, like, how much stock can they put into him in the regular season right now? Are we to the point where it's all just kind of like prolong to the playoffs here? Or is this something that you think people can put a lot of stake in right now? I think they do put some stock in it. You know, if he had maybe had three or four playoff series in a row where he imploded, maybe it would be fair to, you know, kind of call him a playoff choke artist.

I see it on social media all the time. None of this means anything until May. Like, well, I think it does. I mean, you know, What he went through after that series, and it was interesting. He actually talked for the first time about a conversation he had with Ron Hextall, and Jari implied that he thought he was going to be traded over the summer. And Hextall essentially said to him in August, no, no, no, we're not trading you.

You're the guy. And that kind of helped him relax, I think. And to see him play the way he has, I think it's really encouraging. And yeah, he still has to do it in the playoffs. but you have to get the team to the playoffs first, and you have to prove that that All-Star run two years ago wasn't some fluke, and maybe he's doing that right now.

So sure, he'll have plenty to prove in the postseason when that time comes, but I still take some stock in this. I think the organization does too. He's always had the physical ability. The guy was the second round pick, which is a really athletic goaltender. Yeah, I mean, I want to give him some credit right now.

I don't think it's necessarily fair to him to say, well, none of this means a damn thing until the playoffs come. I disagree. I think he's playing at a high level, and that's an encouraging side for the Penguins. I think the Crosby thing is interesting, too, because Sullivan consistently over the last whatever two weeks has always been, and this is even before the COVID comeback. This is, you know, after their risk comeback, he's been really, he's been, he's been kind of slow rolling the Crosby comeback. right where he's like you know you got to you got to be realistic about this like he's playing he hasn't he hasn't played a hockey game in five months like he seems like he's keeping expectations down which i feel like is kind of a smart move because like you said you know krasby's not i mean

i know that it always comes at the asteris he's getting older and all that stuff but he he's he's you got to figure he's going to round into into form more than he has you do he has looked strikingly ordinary in his six games. Even his first game back before COVID with the wrist, it did not play well that night. I wouldn't say he played poorly on this trip,

but he's still only on one point in three games. I mean, that's not what we're used to seeing from Crosby, and part of that is because the power play is an absolute disaster right now. But he doesn't have any explosiveness in his skating.

I suspect it will come. And now that he's 34, you always think, okay, is this, you know, are we seeing some decline here? Because that does happen at that age. That's not an abnormal thing. Or are you seeing a guy who didn't have training camp and who has barely practiced with the team? And, you know, guys in their 30s typically do take a little longer to get going when the season starts. So I suspect that's what it is. I saw some signs last night of him rounded into form a little bit.

But the legs just aren't there at all. I've never seen him be the first person to go to the bench at the end of a shift more than he did these past three games, especially in Montreal, but all three games like, whoa, he was just gas. You could see it, and that's not something you usually say about him. I saw you had some, you got some thoughts on what happens whenever Malcon comes back in terms of who they should play him with, right? Like your boy's super sniper, Dan and Hinen, should he get a look on the second line whenever it returns? Well, maybe. Here's my thought. Jason Zucker. He's not quite the player

of the Penguins thought they were getting two years ago. He doesn't suck. He just, you know, hasn't been as prolific in terms of scoring as anyone expected. The thing with him, he doesn't really play well with Krosby

and guess what? He doesn't look good with Malkin either. That's a problem. But in these couple of games with Jeff Carter, I think he looks okay with him. If you can have Jason Zucker and Jeff Carter and maybe Evan Rodriguez is your third line, that's pretty scary depth.

Especially when you consider you can have Vlugarasen Reese and Brock McKinn is what maybe the best fourth line in hockey one of the better ones for sure and then he still have your top six with Crosby and Malkin you know Sid's going to play with Rust and Gensel

so who does that leave Malkin with he's good with Capitan but you still have a hole there on the left side just a thought Denton Hidin's got six goals in 18 games he's doing something right he has a fairly high skill level I don't know who would do the dirty work on that line if it was those three. It would not be Malkin or Caputin, so I guess it would have to be Danton Hinen.

Just a thought, though, you don't always need your six best forwards in the top six. We certainly saw that in 2016 with Phil Kessel on the third line. And if the Penguins were to pull that off and Hinen and Rodriguez keep producing, that's an unbelievably deep forward lineup. It really is. And that's probably something they can build on. Hinen has been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have real high expectations for him when the season started, but the guy's done nothing but score goals.

I'm really glad you brought up the McGinn-Bluger line because they have been, you know, in addition to being one of the better checking lines, and they're putting the puck in the net right now. And that's huge. And I wonder when everybody does come back and they're slotted where they're supposed to be, like, that's a lineup that I think can have really grown from playing without Crosby and Malcon for this time and be deeper and be able to just go four deep and roll them. in the playoffs, which you really kind of need as your superstars get up in age where they are for these guys. Oh, that's exactly right, Max.

You don't want Crosby and Malkin playing 24 minutes a night in the playoffs. You just don't. And they don't want that either at their age. They know they're not as effective when they play that much. That blue-gur line is so good. It's one of the best defensive lines in hockey. Zach Askenrys doesn't have a goal yet. And he's frustrating because you'd like to see him finish more.

But he is so good defensively. I mean, he is just a shutdown defensive player. And Bluger has kind of merged into that role as well. And Brock McKin, he's new to Penguins fans. I'll tell you a real quick story about McKin. I'm going to name drop to it because it's fun. It's a podcast. Yeah, dude.

When the Penguins signed McKin, I got a phone call from Pittsburgh Zone, Vince Trocheck later that day. And he said, holy hell, are you going to love this guy? He said, this guy is an unbelievable player. You can play him top six. He'll score. playing bottom six. He gets a job done. He does everything and he's been excellent.

He really has. Those three are good together. That's a shutdown line and they, like you said, Max, they can score too. They drive offense enough to the point. Really, they're a good third line, I think. So if that's your fourth line, that's a scary amount of depth

for a team that lost Brandon Tann of and Jared McCann in the off season to still have that kind of depth that speaks volumes of that forward unit they have right now. And then the other big story of the last week, and this will be going, we'll let you go on this. Not trying to put you on the spot, but the sale, the Lemieux group selling the selling a Fenway

sports group. I know it's kind of odd timing because they go on this big trip right after that. But I don't know, man, any stray thoughts, any, any bits you've picked up over the last, over the last week there, as far as, as far as that situation is concerned? Well, I will say that everybody I have spoken to or spoken with rather in the organization, they're more upbeat about this than you would think. Any time an organization gets sold or is about to be sold in this case, there's always some fear.

I don't care how much money the people have. But the sense is that there aren't really going to be any changes in the short term. Nobody's losing jobs. These people have an enormous amount of money. they want to win. We've always known that Mario and Ron Berkel were going to cash out at some point. It's been inevitable for a long time now.

And the sense I get is if they were going to sell to anyone, these people were probably the way to go. I know some people will be concerned that there are no Pittsburgh ties. I think Cam Hayward, the Steelers defensive linemen, said something along these lines. Yeah, Cam was, cause to stir. Cam was sounded nervous.

Yeah, that was really funny. I've spoken like a Pittsburgh kid, but listen, the penguins aren't going anywhere. These people, it's easy to say, oh, that's just, you know, just something to add to their portfolio. Well, maybe it is, but they don't strike me as the type who like to lose. They like to spend a lot of money. So I'm kind of intrigued, and the biggest thing, and if those of you listening who aren't in Pittsburgh might not know about this, but there's an area of land around the arena. And there's been a fight going on for more than a decade in terms of what to do with that land to build it up, the bar and restaurant scene, et cetera. And I was told by someone in the organization that this is a priority for this group and that these people have negotiated these kinds of deals.

They can get it done. It's embarrassing really what's transpired over the last decade with this situation. People listening to Pittsburgh know about it. So maybe some fresh eyeballs will help. It's almost like the last ownership group didn't want to build it up at all, you know? You think? parking parking parking receipts are gold baby but now i that is that's one of the funny things about

about the finway group they've developed stuff around they've developed stuff around the ballpark in boston they kind of have that they have that multi-pronged thing right that's why people are talking about streaming services potentially like all that sort of stuff there there's a level of ambition there i think yes uh that that that maybe we're not we're not we're not quite used to no there is and the penguins aren't going anywhere they've got a lease with the city they can't go anywhere for 20 years and and the Fenway group like they were attracted to the penguins i think they said man this is like a really well-run organization that makes money and a new building great sports town this is something we want to be involved in they weren't trying to buy the carolina hurricanes or the new jersey devils like they they recognized the penguins are a big deal and and you know i think the price was right for america Mario and Ron, it'll be very interesting to see how things go here in the next couple of weeks. But from everything I've been told, it's a done deal. It's just basically the paperwork at this point.

And yeah, it's something to note. It's very interesting. But for a penguin fan, I don't think there's any reason to be fearful. No, there's no reason to be afraid of that group in the first place. Like, yeah, they added it to a portfolio, right? But it's an asset they want. It's an asset they want to make money off of and put money into over the next million years. So you got that going on,

but the 30-year lease, the seven-year mandatory waiting period to apply for a free location by the league, like this team's the team, the team's not going anywhere. Like that's just, it's just a model franchise, really. It's the most successful franchise in the NHO last 30 years. They generally are profitable.

I mean, which not all hockey teams are, let's be honest. No, it's really probably a good move for the fan base. I don't think there. There's anything to be afraid of. Mario's still going to be around from what that's worth.

I know that will make some people feel a little better. No, it's an interesting story, but it's not a bad one for Pittsburgh. And I hear nothing about good things about this group. These people, they're winners. They want to win. They know what they're doing. This is not a bad thing for the Pittsburgh pay wins at all. The only problem is they're deviating from the big organizational plan because they're in a

playoff spot right now, which means they can't miss out and then win a lottery and start the entire process. all over again. It's a shame for them. Well, there is a fear. You don't want to become the Maple Leafs like circa 95 through 2005 where you're always just barely making the playoffs but not really a legit contender.

The Penguin Way, as we know, is to find a way to draft Shane Wright in a few months. Exactly. Bottom out and get lucky. They're going to cycle back to that at some point. That's what they do. That's what they do. That's right. All right, buddy.

We'll let you finish up the drive. I know you're somewhere somewhere in western New York and have have have have have have a few hours ahead of you but now appreciate the time travel safe and we'll talk to you soon anytime fellas take care see you Josh thank you guys that was good stuff from Josh he said he was I don't even know if this came through because we're having connections but he said he pulled over in Hamburg New York home of Patrick Keynes yeah dude's a gamer took a long flight from Winnipeg and I was schlepping his way back down back down I-79 north coming back to Pittsburgh he's he's a he's one the greats. Very nice of us to disrupt that already painless drive with a pullover on the highway

with multiple reconnects to make that work. I'm sure he found a good place to spot, probably hit up some fun roadside food or whatever if I know my dude. I'm sure that was part of the plan. But yeah, good stuff from Josh. We're going to throw it to a break here and then we'll be right back with a couple of thoughts to finish up and send you guys out. All right. I think a big part of the dialogue here in late November, and it's crazy to think. But we're, my gosh, one month, two month, two extra weeks out from Olympic hockey. It's time to seriously start thinking about these rosters. I know we're going to have a whole lot more on this on the site coming up, coming up soon. But as it relates to the U.S. Olympic team, my big question right now, and Maxie, you can jump in

and answer this if you want. is it time to seriously consider putting Jack Campbell on the roster? Like you look at the American goalie's situation's pretty good. Connor Hellebuck is, you know, no doubt starter. John Gibson's playing, you know, playing his whatever, has righted the ship this season versus the last couple. You got Thatcher Demko in the mix. He's certainly a guy who we sort of pegged to be on the roster initially.

But, man, Campbell's at 944. He kept the maple leaves afloat, I think, for a little bit earlier in the season. He's got international experience, as we all know. Is it time to seriously consider slotting Jack in there somewhere? I'm starting to believe it's yes. And you know, you look at those three guys I just mentioned in, and a couple others for that matter. I wouldn't have thought that was the case in like September,

but I'm starting to get swayed over to that side. The third goalie to me is such an interesting, like, how do you pick it? because it's a guy who you're not expecting going in the tournament to play maybe at all, right? And so, like, you got to have somebody who you know in there can handle that. And I do think, I don't know Jack Campbell personally. I know him solely from watching the Amazon series, but I do think he kind of has the personality that he could do well in that role. Definitely.

I mean, someone said it. I can't remember who is. So shout out to whoever said this on Twitter. But, like, put Jack Campbell on the team just because he'll up the vibes. 100%. He's a, he's a, he's a fun dude to be around and a funny dude. Like the counter argument is that you look at, say, Demko and say maybe at some point down the line, he's, he's the number one guy, right?

Like, maybe four years from now, maybe in various other international tournaments, like he seems like he could be a staple of the program moving forward. And that's, and that's no knock on Jack. It's just that Demko's got the, Demko's got the contract, and he's got, he's got the credit, and he's got, you know, the history in the last couple years, to think that maybe if you're bringing a guy who's kind of in that developmental spot, and like maybe that's how you use your number three spot, right? As you say, this guy isn't going to contribute now necessarily, but he could down the road. And that's, and that's kind of

what we need to use it for. But I don't know, man, you look at how Campbell's plan. You look at, you look at the kind of duty is, you know, you look at the story that he would, that he would bring the Olympics in that, in that team. I think I'm, I think I'm almost there. I'm, I'm about ready to pencil and Jack Campbell. Check back in like two weeks, three weeks, whenever we release our updated Olympic rosters for the Big Five. But I'm leaning in that direction. Canada desperately trying to swing a trade for one of these,

for the citizenship of one of these many strong American goalies. Who do you, is it flurry? Like, is that just what, is that just like no brainer now? Yeah, I think it probably is. Because of what price is going through and because Carter Hart was horrific last year. Well, Hart probably makes... Can't turn stuff over to him. He's going to make the team.

He's going to deserve it now. But like he's, you know, whatever, six months removed from playing as badly as, as anybody we've ever seen, right? Yeah. No, like, I think Flurry's got to be your guy right there right now. And then the third goalie will be, yeah, Thatcher Demco acquired from Team USA for a conditional second round pick

in the 2024 international draft or something. No, you got to hold out for like Mark Stone or Matt Barzell or one of these guys who's going to be on Canada's third line. No, we've established that Matt Barzell stinks now. He's having a bad season. So yeah, so yeah, Canada, feel free to just flip them, flip them over to us. How about those guys like... Who actually was born in Indiana.

How about that? We'll take them. We'll take them. Or one of the seven centers that we had on the initial roster. These guys can't all play. Give us Keturier. He was born in Arizona. Let's take one of them.

You can have, you can have Fatsure Demko. It's fine. Thatcher, Demko, for the other half of Sean Coutureate's citizenship. Who says no? I love it. All right. I mean, I've been looking at this expansion, not expansion, relocation stuff this week. And obviously the Quebec premier, Francoisle Lago saying on RDS that there could be some meetings with Gary Betman about another team in Quebec. Jeff Merrick got a comment from Bill Daly, basically saying they talked over the phone, but no meeting planned.

And obviously, I think, you know, given the source on the initial one, like, you can see some political lobbying outlines in favor. But I want to know, like, is Quebec even, if there's going to be a relocation? Is Quebec even number one on that list right now for you, Sean? It's Houston still, isn't it? Like, if you think that the coyotes are the team that's in trouble, they had a very, a very auspicious move to the Central Division recently, which coincidentally is the same time zone that, that, that, Houston is in, I still think they're the one that makes sense. From a geographic standpoint, you can keep them in the West. The issue with Houston is that, you know, is that Tillman Fertita, who owns the,

who owns the rockets and has the lease to the arena there, a team would have to be owned by him. And he's talked about buying one in the past, but, you know, the pandemic wasn't great for him. So the question, I guess, is whether the league is interested in Tillman Fertita, and if Tillman-Fortita has the kind of cash that is willing to spend the cash on a, on a, on a, on a hockey team. But you got to figure just from a lot of different, from a lot of different perspectives,

Houston makes sense. You know, that doesn't mean that the Quebec City stuff isn't interesting, but I don't know, man, what actually constitutes a meeting, right? Like, is it a meeting if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're the Quebec premier and you call up and you call up, uh, Bill Daley or Gary Bettman, they're like, yeah, okay, we can talk about that eventually. Like, is that enough to go public with? I feel like this was a misstep by them, honestly.

Well, if you actually want to get a team, like, yeah, I think you're probably right. Because at this point, like, now you're putting spotlight pressure, like, all these things that, you know, if I'm in the NHL shoes, I would not be, I would not take especially kindly to having it brought to light this way if it was something I was seriously, seriously considering. If you're the Premier of Quebec, the only thing better than not getting a team is letting voters know that you're think that you're quote unquote trying to get a team, right? Like maybe it works out. It probably won't. But at the end of the day, like, this guy can hang his hat on the fact like, oh, yeah, we tried. We're doing our best here. Yeah.

I mean, I do think Quebec could support a team. Like, you know, that is as passionate of a hockey region as exists. So if you want to bring one to Quebec City, I guess is where it would be. Like, I think that could be good for the league. I'm just not sure that the league necessarily is. I mean, it'd be like Winnipeg Redux, right? Where you don't have like a strong corporate base there, but people are just so crazy about it that it works out financially one way or the other.

I feel like this is something that, you know, it's a fun podcast. discussion and it's a fun thing to kick around just just does like a thought exercise but it really doesn't it really doesn't feel like this is something we need to take all that seriously you know what the best thing is behind being the premier who brings quebec a team being the premier who uh says they're trying to bring quebec a team the third best thing is being a podcaster who gets to keep talking about whether quebec is getting a team thank you francois la go or whatever or or whatever this guy's name is it's it's already out of my head he's given us the perfect way to finish up the again, this is the last post- Thanksgiving show period on the athletic hockey show.

That's actually not true. We have the ones that show coming up to. They always say if you don't have an NHL team by Thanksgiving, you're probably not going to have one by the playoffs. 80% of all NHL teams in cities do not relocate by the end of the season. They just stay put where they are in Thanksgiving. It's an old rule of thumb. And I think it holds true this year, Sean. All right, dude. what's going on any big Thanksgiving plans is it is it a is it are are you having a normal is it are

are you having a normal one up there I hope you yes we are we're going to have uh thanksgiving brunch with my girlfriend's mom in the morning and then we're going to drive uh over to beautiful Grand Rapids Michigan for uh to see my my family in the afternoon so it should be a really good time how about you the double header I'm proud of you no I that's that's that's all that's always been part of the mix for me I typically typically eat at my mom's uh early and then head over to my grandma's on on my dad's or my aunts on my dad's side for the uh for for for for for round two dessert slash uh slash uh slash primetime football are you are you a site for like turkey all systems go two turkey meal guy or are you like a pre meal and then the turkey meal or vice versa

oh i'll typically i'll typically go hard on on turkey at my moms and then make the make the third or that make the second meal like let some some leftovers maybe hit hammer the sides there and that's where that's where I hit up, hit up the desserts, baby. It's pie time. It's brownie time. I feel like we didn't do the obligatory draft your Thanksgiving plate thing here. God, it's tired. It's been, it's been done. We're all about original thoughts here on the athletic hockey show. That's why we're talking about NHL re-reaching. When I was an intern, I was an intern in Pittsburgh, I once asked Sean if I could steal somebody's tweet as my lead. And Sean was like, yeah, I haven't had an original thought.

11 years. So I'm glad to see you both. I do it all the time. I'm just I'm just an amalgamation of stolen shit. That's all I am. Love it, buddy. I hope you're back next week. Get out of here, Custin's. Never want to talk to you again. Max, all day every day. Let's roll. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for having me. Max, thanks to you and thanks to you and thanks to everybody who's listening to this man. Thanks for listening to the athletic hockey show. This show doesn't exist without you guys. Please follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't forget to leave a rating and review as long as it's good. No four-star reviews.

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So go ahead, get the sports coverage. You know you deserve. It's not going to get any better than this. Next week, the plan is to have two-time Stanley Cup champ Sean Thornton, Bruins legend. He just wrote a really, really, really fun book. We're going to have him on to talk about a whole bunch of stuff. And the return of my best friend, Craig Custom.

He's back, supposedly. Until then, happy Thanksgiving. To those listening to Canada, have an awesome day at work on Thursday and Friday. I think Christmas is in a month. That'll give you something to look forward to. Take care and thanks again.