The Athletic Hockey Show - The Avalanche raise their Stanley Cup banner, a Connor McDavid hat trick and an odd ref monologue as the NHL season gets underway

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

With the return of the NHL season, Ian and Sean discuss the Wednesday's Maple Leafs-Canadiens game, and that man in the florescent jacket. Also, Connor McDavid kicking off his season with a hat trick, and Jack Johnson joining in on the Avalanche's celebration in his Blackhawks uniform. Then in "Granger Things" Jesse Granger looks at lines with teams playing back to back games, and to wrap up, a deep dive on waivers in the mailbag and a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3BKz27u Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We're back, everybody. It is your Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's the Admitted Sean McIndoo with you for the next hour. And I'll tell you what. Let's just get right into it, Sean. I could set this up with some lengthy preamble. Nobody wants that.

Everyone just wants to know how you're feeling. Less than 24 hours after Toronto, Montreal, and a wild two minutes and whatever, 30 seconds. At the end of that game. How is Sean feeling Thursday morning? It was a fun game. It was great to have hockey back. It was great to have a bunch of games on the schedule.

And as far as how I'm feeling about the Leafs, like, yeah, I mean, they're not going to go 82 and O. I guess it's a bummer. Well, not anymore. We were expecting that. But look, it's game one. Obviously, some red flags in that game. obviously some things to work on.

And full credit to Montreal. A lot of positives to take away from that game for a young team. But I mean, as far as the Leafs go, like, we got to pick a lane here. Like, we all agree that the regular season didn't matter for this team. They could go 80-2-0. They could smash every record. They could win every game 10-0. It doesn't matter.

They got to get in the playoffs. They got to win in the playoffs. And when I say we all said that, I say that too. I'm absolutely of the mind that whatever this team does, they could win the president's trophy. They could set their, have their most successful season ever.

It doesn't matter until they get to the playoffs. But by the same token, we can't then turn around every time they lose a game and say, this is a crisis. Clearly, if they get off to a terrible start, if it looks like a playoff spot is in jeopardy, then absolutely. Clearly, the regular season matters insofar as they've got to play

well enough to get into the playoffs. But beyond that, I mean, if they had won that game 10 to nothing last night, anybody who came on trying to say, wow, Leaves look fantastic, would immediately get shot down saying it's a regular season. Nobody cares. Well, by the same token, we can't go into panic mode over losing game one. Now, if they lose game two, absolutely. Yeah, exactly.

They got Washington. Then they got Ottawa on Saturday. So look, here is the thing. You can kind of see how this could play. because they lose the game in Montreal. And look, the thing with the Leafs of Montreal is they are almost never good at the same time. It's very weird if you look back over the last 30 years, really, you find that these two teams are, one's good and one's bad at all times.

And yet, whenever they play, it's always a good game. It's always a close game. It feels like it just the standings never matter with this team. So it wasn't a shock that they played a close game last night. It wasn't a shock to Montreal one. now they play Washington second game back to back

it's back to back for Washington too but Washington's a good team if you lose that game now you're going into Saturday night and it's Ottawa and who knows Ottawa is another team

that always gets up for the Leafs and then after that if they were to start 0 and 3 which is not impossible to imagine right now do you know who they've got for their fourth game

Arizona the worst team in the league coming into Toronto. Can you imagine what it's going to be like in Toronto? If they're 0 and 3 and they're playing Arizona, like that now becomes a must-win game, right? I mean, they have to win that game or if they start 0-4 and they've lost to Montreal, Ottawa, and Arizona,

that's when panic mode sets in. So, you know, look, it's early. We always savored the NHL. It gets late early. And especially when you get off to a really bad start. But at the same time, don't forget, this leaf team got off to a lousy start last year too. And we're all talking about, oh, you know, is this it for Shelton Keith?

Is this it for the team? You got to blow it up. And then they went on and had 115 points. So take a deep breath, everyone. Enjoy the game. Analyze the game. Pick it apart. That's what we have to do.

It's the only game we've got to look at. But, I mean, if you're already in panic mode over one game, it's going to be a rough season for you. I got to say that. You know, the thing that jumped out to me from that game, between Montreal and Toronto was buddy with the fluorescent jacket. Scarman.

Do we call that fluorescent green? Florescent yellow, whatever that was. Here's my question, okay? Listen, the guy stood out like a sore thumb, whatever. Do you think that stadium official should be allowed to tell people to remove an article of clothing if it's that, like, that was super distracting to me? I felt like.

And this is the thing. You can ask people to take down signs and whatever. Like, I start, I wonder, or do you think that this guy's waiting? He's like, he's probably a lawyer and he's like, I want, just come at me. Ask me to take off the coat. So, so here's the thing. This guy in particular is a regular in Montreal. Yes.

And in fact, we've had a piece on the athletic where they got a hold of him. And Mark Antoine interviewed him. He apparently identifies as. Starman and he didn't give his name, but he wears this thing every, every game. He knows it's annoying. He gets it. And it's, you know, there, I've seen some people have said that like, oh, you know, he wears it because his kids or his grandkids or whoever watch at home and, you know, they like to know where he is. Maybe that's it. I think he just likes the attention. He kind of gives that vibe. But this is a regular thing. And you see this in different arenas. Different arenas have

different people that do this or stand out. I know in Anaheim, you've got the, what is it, the tennis balls they call themselves. It was a couple and they were something similar. Should they be able to do something? Yeah, absolutely. It's, it is annoying and it is distracting. And it's funny because even if you go and read this piece from a couple years ago that Mark Antoine wrote where he interviews this guy. And it's a positive piece. You know, it's sort of like, you know, hey, meet this interesting guy that you probably noticed on TV. And you go into the comments. And everybody's just like, nah, man, screw this guy. Like, get him to take the coat off. Nobody likes it. Um, yeah, absolutely. They should be able to come down. Go, sir, like, it's a jacket, right? Take the jacket off. If

somebody wearing a t-shirt, then, you know, that, that's a different thing. But I'd, I'd grab a few of those pennies from gym class and just, you know, throw one of these on, man. Because it's, uh, it does stand out, especially these days where 90% of the fans are wearing jerseys whenever they go to games, it really stands out when one person is doing that. And I got to say, I traditionally love nothing more than

seeing a guy like that and then pointing it out on Twitter and ruining it for everyone else. Because it's the kind of thing, if you don't notice it, like there's people who watch that whole game last night going, what are these guys talking about? And then there's also people watching the game going, yeah, I saw that guy all game long and he drove me crazy.

So I don't know. Starman, knock it off. Yeah. You know what? it's like the, when you pointed out on Twitter, it's like, you know, the FedEx logo where people are like, you know that there's an arrow hidden inside? And I'm like, I never saw it. And then now I can't unsee it. That's how I feel like when you point out

the fluorescent buddy. And listen, if his whole point is, he's talking about how it's like a good luck charm or something. They've had one of the worst home records, uh, in a while. So I, I don't know. I, one of the fun things about hockey is, is picking up on those like regulars that

You're like, oh, yeah, if you watch Leaf Games, you know that one guy who sits behind the bench. If you watch this team, you know that one guy who sits over there. But I don't know, man. Like, this doesn't feel like a very Montreal thing, right? Like, you could see this being a something somewhere else, but it's Montreal, man. It's old-fashioned in the same. We got one dude in a bright green jacket. Okay.

Here's a legit question. Imagine this guy trying to do this like in the 1960s at the forum or 50s, when people were rolling in in suits and imagine. Now, that would have taken some gall if he'd try to. That would have played out well. Whereas in the 80s, he would have fit in perfectly, right? Like, it's, you go back and watch clips in the 80s. You watch like old Oilers and Islanders clips.

Nobody's wearing jerseys. Everybody's just rocking whenever, you know, there's lots of sweaters. There's lots of weird collared shirts and T-shirts, and it's a whole mix. And whereas today, it's like everybody, today it's like the guys who do the graphics got lazy and everyone's got the same model. It's all, everyone's wearing their same jersey, except for this one guy. Okay. So that wasn't the only thing on Wednesday night that I think was a little bit eye-catching for people.

The other thing, the unveiling of the digital rinkboard advertising. Now, I'm going to tell you, so I'm down in Buffalo. I'm here doing Ottawa Buffalo on Thursday night. And so I was watching T&T's coverage of the Bruins and the Capitals. at no point did I ever notice or see any what I thought was digital rinkboard advertising. I could be wrong. And maybe somebody can correct me and say, yeah, they had it. I didn't even notice it.

But then I'm watching on Twitter and people sharing the clips of like the Oilers and Kudak's game. And that looked like pure madness. Like I don't think that, listen, they don't have this stuff ironed out. Clearly, they don't. Yeah. Right? No. They don't.

I'm I'm with you I I haven't noticed it all that much and and I have seen you know the the giveaway if you're wondering you know am I seeing this or not is is the ads will be like all for one like the whole end boards will be one company just one logo over and over again whereas when if you're getting the real you know quote unquote real ads they're they're much more chopped up and you see the sections of the board and all of that it looks a little bit unnatural to me I got used to it very quickly. Other than when it glitches out, there was that one moment in the, in the Edmonton game where it just, it kind of went, went haywire on us. Other than that, to me, it looks pretty good. I've seen in the past when we've, we've done the fake ads on the ice and players skate through

it and it looks glitchy. You can tell that it's something artificial. I didn't really notice that. The animation, like the changing of the ads, I didn't notice all that much. The contrast between when they cut camera views and you're seeing different ads because most of the camera views don't have the virtual ads. I got to say, for me, hasn't really been an issue. I feel like I've gotten used to it very quickly. But I have seen a ton of feedback from people saying that it was jarring to them or that it did bother them. And I can't tell anyone that they're wrong. Let's kind of see maybe you get used to it over time. But it does seem like a lot of people are having issues with it. And certainly at a bare minimum, you've got to get the technology good enough that it's not

glitching out in the middle of a game and distracting everyone. Right. And that's my point. Like, I see people complaining about ads on helmets, ads on jerseys. Really, that doesn't, to me, that doesn't bother me or distract me from the game. But there were certainly a couple of instances where it did look like, you know, you would lose players or you would like the referee would disappear because of the digital ringboard ads. Right.

So to me, that's when it does cross a lot is what it does. Yeah, Canucks fans will tell you the referees did definitely disappear. last night at certain moments. But, okay. Yeah, I gotta say, if we're talking virtual stuff, to me, it doesn't bug me as much as the fake ads behind the net on the glass that some teams do on like local broadcasts. Yeah.

Where it's like, Gus's muffler tune up. And you're like, really? Yeah, Gus spot prime ad spot that blocks the view of all the fans. Interesting. Like, to me, that looks way more fake than this stuff does. But I get that everyone's going to have a different sensitivity to it. And if you're out there saying, like, no, this stuff is really bugging me. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

I'm just saying it didn't bug me all that much. By the way, you know what did bug me? Since we talked about bright green guy in Montreal, the other thing about that Montreal's got to get under control is those lights on the – on the rigs. The little mini scoreboard that goes around the rink. If you've never been to Montreal, you've never seen – like they've got a couple of those. and they keep changing during the games and they're so bright that they reflect on the ice

and so you get this like they turn them red and the ice kind of looks you know it doesn't it's not the ice turns red but there's like this pinkish glow suddenly hits the ice and I tweeted about it and it was funny because I got so many responses

from people going dude I thought my TV was on the fritz all game long because the ice keeps going from like pure white to kind of a darker white to pink and then back. People thought their TVs were on the fritz. And I'm sure Montreal fans who watch all the time are used to it. But, you know, when you don't see as many games in Montreal, like get that sorted out, guys.

Like you're just don't go with the bright red during the game or whatever. Because there were times where there's like a goal mouse scrambled and suddenly you see this ragged low. And it was that the goal like coming on? Is that like some sort of thing that they do? It was that to me was way more distracting than. anything that was going on on the ad boards. Yeah. And by the way, you just cost us a sponsorship

with Gus's muffler. Sorry, Gus. We were so close to lining that up for the pod. And now it's gone. Okay. Other weird things from this week. First of all, can we just take a moment and say Connor McDavid does Connor McDavid things again?

And, you know, we talked about this last week with Jesse Granger that, you know, if you're laying down money for who's going to win the Rocket Richard Trophy, like, yeah, maybe they'll be. Bad to put some money on McDavid, opening night hat trick for McDavid. And it's funny because first half of that game, you're seeing, oh, my God, Jack Campbell's terrible. The Oilers are terrible defensively.

And then I'll admit I went to bad. I woke up and I said, oh, yeah, five, three Oilers. McDavid had me. And that's what the Oilers are going to be. Even if, you know, obviously if you're Jay Woodcroft, you're not happy with a lot of what happened in that game. You got a lot of things to work on. But that's the kind of team the Oilers are going to be, is the team that even when

they're not at their best. Even if they only give you one good period, that good period might be enough. And I can tell you, as a Leaves fan, I've watched a team like that for the last few years, and it hasn't translated well to when the games get really tough down the stretch and in the playoffs. But it can be an awful lot of fun to watch.

And the scary thing about McDavid, especially, he gets three goals. The Oilers weren't even very good for two periods, five on five. That power play is going to be deadly. Like it's going to be, no team wants to take penalties, but it's going to be a thing where, you know, you're going in to play the Oilers. Guys, no penalties tonight. No dumb penalties. We can't be taken any because that power play is scary good. But five on five, the Oilers looked awful. It slash, the Canucks look great. The Canucks looked like they were making a real statement. And then it just fell apart for Vancouver and it ramped up for Edmonton. And that's, that's what. this team is. They're, they're scary good. And the question is going to be how often can they be scary good for, for how much of a game, because scary good for 60 minutes is going to be real

hard to beat. Scary good for 20 minutes, like we saw last night, is going to get you a few wins, but not enough. Yeah. Okay. McDavid was dynamite on opening night. Look, there was a bunch of story. It's something I wanted to talk to you about. As soon as this happened on Tuesday night, I'm like, Okay, I'm putting this on the list of things we're hitting on. And in case you missed it, we're going to play the audio right now. This is just before Tampa and New York, Tuesday night at Madison Square Garden. Have a listen. This is referee Chris Rooney just before puck drop, I guess, welcoming fans to the 2022-2020 NFL season.

For our great players and our great fans, welcome to opening night of the 2022-23-N-HL season. Chal season. What's better than this? Good luck to all players. Let's have a great season. All right. Let's talk this out here. Like what happened here? Like, do you think he went rogue and is like, you know what? I'm going to just go ahead. He was instruct. Right. So we can agree. He was probably instructed to do this. What on earth was this? I would watch a whole 30 for 30 documentary on how this moment came to be. Like, seriously, I want to know who came up with the idea. I want to know who, like, what that meeting was like where somebody stood up and said,

hey, guys, you know who should welcome us to the season? The worst public speakers in the world, NHL referees, because, like, these guys are terrible. You know, you see it all the time, right? Like, you and I are both football fans. watch the NFL on a Sunday. And whenever there's, there's a review or a situation, the referee gets on the mic and they explain it. And they're not, you know, the explanation isn't always perfect, but it's usually, you know, it's clear and it's, it's obvious that these guys have

put work into into doing this. They got on there, they say, here's what the call on the field was, plays being challenged, here's what we're going to look at. They go and look at it. They come back and they say, okay, on further review. The guy didn't have the, the second foot wasn't down inbound. It didn't come down with control. Therefore, it's no care. In the NHL, these guys just get up there and they're like, there's a review. And then they sprint off. And then they come back and they're like, review, okay, good goal. And you're like, what were you even looking at?

What happened? Like, explain something to us. But these guys always look like they just, you know, they look like the kid in your class who didn't want to do public speaking and got forced up there. They look like they want to swallow their own tongue rather than talking. And then the mic doesn't work half the time. And it's just a mess. and I would pay $100 for footage of when they went into the referee's room and we're like, guess what you're going to do tonight?

And I mean, he did okay under the circumstances, he was fine. But the whole thing was just so funny. You know, if you haven't seen the clip or if you have seen it, go back and watch it. Watch Brayton Point. He's lined up for the face of it. Because the reason I say the guy clearly didn't go rogue is because the players knew he was going to do it. Like the players didn't come in for the face off and then go like, oh, this guy's given a speech. Like they knew clearly someone had told him like, hey, I got to do a little thing.

At the point, it's just like, he's got this look on it. And he's like looking at the camera like it's like it's from the office or something where he's like, what that? How did I get myself in this situation that this referee is giving this half-hearted speech? Hey, what could be better than that? Yeah, I don't know. And they did it the second time too, right? The LA Vegas game also had a pregame ref speech, although he put a little less into it. And he kind of directed it more at the players like, all right, boys, let's go out and have a great game or whatever.

Which that got me excited because I was like, oh, is this a new thing that we're doing before every game? Like, are we going to do referee pregame speeches before? Like, I was excited. I sat down to watch the Leafs and Habs and I'm like, come on, baby, two languages. Let's go. Let's do this. That ceremony was enough. Yes, you didn't need an extra.

Yeah, that's probably it. But I also do find it funny that we got two mandatory referee pregame speeches and Wes McCauley didn't get to do either one of them. I know. That's all you're thinking is like, man, that would have been, that would have been something. I can't believe we all missed out on the chance to listen to Wes McCauley say something in a slightly louder than usual volume. And then we all pretend that it's the greatest thing we've ever heard.

like, ah, this guy's such a character. And no, no, he just is the only referee who can, yeah, who can string a full sentence together. That's the only thing going on here. But, yeah, maybe next time, Wes, maybe the all-star game, maybe the playoffs. That'd be good. Before game seven, wouldn't you like to hear a referee? Just come out and be like, all right, boys, game seven, what's better than this? By the way, we're not calling anything tonight.

Feel free to tackle each other. This is the last time you'll see us. Yeah, we will not be calling anything, but we will wave off goals for fake interference that we ever call. All right, have a good game. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, speaking of pregame ceremonies and stuff, real quick, one I hit on this. Chicago was in Denver last night. The Aves had

their unveiling of the Stanley Cup banner that they obviously picked up last season. And before the game, as they raised the banner, Jack Johnson, who's now a member of Chicago, went over and lined up with his old Aves teammates. So he's kind of arm in arm

with his Aves teammates as they won the Stanley Cup. I, and I, and I, listen, I have no problem with that. I think it's cool. You won the cup with that team. Get part of that moment. I just don't know that I've ever seen that before. Have you? Like where a guy, it just happens to be that he's changed teams and they're there for the opening night, banner raising and he and he skates over and he's with his old team. Or has that happened before. I can't remember ever seeing it happen like that where he went over to the team. I feel like it may have happened in the past where a guy happens to be on the team and maybe he's out on the bench or, you know, maybe something like that or or when they, you know, he gets the. ring and that kind of thing. But no, I can't say that I've ever seen a guy actually go over and, you know, mix in with the other team the way that he did. I thought it was cool. You know, I didn't admire it at all. Then they did like some big video for him and like a

fans gave him an ovation and everything, which at some point it got a little weird because it's like this dude played one season here. Like it wasn't like he was like a beloved long time avalanche star who had to move on. But he was part of the team. I liked it. And good for good for Colorado and good for Chicago for letting him do it because you know some teams would have been weird about it right and even a few years ago we wouldn't have seen something like this because it would have been like not out there the enemy you've got to get ready for a game you're not

frattingizing with the with the enemy or whatever you want to call it but no it's fine and Chicago we all know what's going on in Chicago this year so they don't they're probably like stay over there go ahead take a few shots on that man score score a couple for him. You're fine. Yeah. My question, like, so I was watching that ceremony last night on T&T, and I'm thinking, okay, I see Jack Johnson over there. And then my mind started thinking, well, where's Evan Rodriguez? Because Colorado signed him, right, to a contract. Like, so he's there, but he wasn't part

of the team. Like, so where are the guys that didn't win the cup last year, but who were part of the abs this year? Like, what did they do during that? That's a good question. I was scouring around and I couldn't, I couldn't quite see the way to there, but I, you definitely got to be on the fringes, right? Like, well, you can't stand with on the end. Yeah, I don't know if you do or not. You probably do, but yeah, you better not be in the middle of it. Put it this way. Like, I better not, like, see, like, Nathan McKinnon and Kilmacar, like, in between there's Evan Rodriguez with his arms strapped around both of them or something. With a tear, simple tear going down his eye. Yeah. Yeah,

yeah, that is a little bit weird, but, uh, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I did I didn't see them. So I don't know. Right. Well, maybe an Aves fan who was at the game in Denver or somebody who let us know where was Evan Rodriguez or Georgiev, right? Yeah. Came over. So, yeah, where were those guys during the banner raising?

Help us out. All right. Time for us to do a little Granger things with our pal, Jesse Granger. Brought to you by a bet MGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. Jesse, earlier we referenced the fact that Connor McDavid had a half. hat trick on opening night. And we were like, hey, look, last week we talked about, that might be a smart play if you're looking for somebody to win the Rocket

Richard Award or, you know, whatever. McDavid was not getting the same odds as a Matthews or, you know, guys like that. Opening night hat trick, did that have any move? Did that move the line at all in McDavid? Yeah, he's, well, he's only plus 250 to win the heart, which is pretty insane when you think about it to basically two and a half to one odds to win the end. MVP trophy. And to win the Rocket Richard, he's still, I mean, he's third behind Drys Eiddle and Matthews still at plus 650. So you can get six and a half to one odds on him. Matthews is still

the heavy favorite. I mean, Matthews is going to have a few hat tricks this season probably. So they're just expecting that that was one of McDavid's. But yeah, I mean, he's off to a crazy start on pace for 250 goals. I told you. I told you guys. This is time to get in. Chip on the shoulder. Oh, yeah. In the year 2022, Sean tells us this McDavid guy. I told you to get in. Yeah, that's right. I called it. I called it. Boy, I tell you. Oh, I love it.

Hey, Jesse, we've got a jam-pack slate of games. We've got a handful on Wednesday night. Feels like most of the league is playing on Thursday. And look, Sean and I were talking about, look, Toronto is doing the back-to-back thing against Washington on Thursday. We're going to get a lot of back-to-back games. And sometimes that can, you know, that can affect. affect the lines a little bit, right? Yeah, I think it's, honestly, I think it's interesting how many of these type of games, the NHL scheduled over these first two days of, or first couple days of action. I mean,

you look, like you mentioned, Toronto, they have a tough four three loss in Montreal. They go straight back home and play Washington. And it's funny, of the one, two, three, four, five, six teams playing back to backs. Toronto's the only team that's favored in their second night of the back to back. and they're minus 190, and that's because they're playing a team that's also playing a back-to-back with a little more travel. Washington, they lost at home last night to Boston, five to two. They didn't look all that good. I expected Washington to look a lot better than that. And now they had two Toronto tonight, and they're plus 155 against the Maple Leafs. What did you guys think of Toronto and Washington last night if you saw much of the games? Well, I'll tell you, it's funny because we talked a lot about Toronto, and obviously they looked a little bit flat. I watched Washington and I thought, man, I didn't love Darcy Kemper on a couple of those goals. And I don't know. I feel like, I don't know, Sean, like we've talked about, and we don't want to overanalyze one game out of 82.

But if you were one of those people, that's all we have. But if you were one of those people that said, I kind of see Washington missing the playoffs, then yesterday's game, I think, added some fuel to that fire, right? Yeah. It feels like everybody this year looked at the East and went, oh, it's the same eight playoff teams. And then we all went, you can't have the same eight playoff teams. So who's going to miss? And then it was like, Washington is probably the team that's going to miss.

But yeah, they didn't look great. But again, one game, you're not going to panic to it. But it's, it is interesting on these back-to-backs because, Jesse, how much of that do you think is rest-related? it, you know, just the idea that, you know, playing twice in just over 24 hours and how much of it is the backup goalie factor? Because I will be honest with you, I had to look up who Washington's backup goalie is and who's going to be playing for them tonight against Ilya Sampsonov of the Leafs, which, you know, not exactly a guy with a fantastic record either, but he gets to, he gets to go up against his former team. Is it a backup goalie thing or is it a combination? I think,

I think it's a combination, but it's definitely more of the backup goalie than it is the rest. I think, like for anyone out there that bets on baseball, you know that it's basically all predicated on pitching. I mean, baseball betting and betting lines are literally determined by the starting pitchers. It's not quite that strong in the NHL. I don't think switching from one goalie to another influences the line quite as much as a pitcher, but it does influence the line. And I think it definitely influences it more than the rest. And then like you mentioned, Toronto, they've got a backup that to me is right on par with their starter, whereas Washington, there's a pretty considerable drop-off.

It's funny you mentioned. That is the most muted compliment I've ever heard of a team. I don't even know if that was a compliment. No, it was. You just might have libeled the guy. I mean, Toronto did, after all those brilliant goalie moves, I mean, they only allowed 23 shots and gave up four goals and lost. I was shocked. I was really shocked by that. But it's funny that Ian mentioned Washington. See, I was the one saying, I think Boston might be

a team that falls off. And it was the opposite last night. I was like, wow, this team, especially because if I'm projecting Boston to miss the playoffs, they've got to lose a bunch early because that's what, that's kind of the thought, right? They're going to lose all these games while they've got the injuries. And they looked good. It was one game. Like Ian, I agree with Ian that maybe they weren't three goals better than Washington. It was just Darcy Kemper let a couple in that he shouldn't have. But yeah, that was a great start for a team that I was kind of anticipating a slow start for. And then you've got, man, the NH—it was funny.

I tweeted yesterday. The NHL didn't do the Chicago Blackhawks any favors with scheduling. And then everybody replies, what do you mean? That is doing them favors. They're trying to get Conraddard. But the players on the ice do not want to lose. No matter what their organization is doing to them, the players, on the ice are not getting any favors. I mean, they go to Colorado. They have to play at altitude

to against the defending champs on their banner unveiling night. They get the crap kicked out of them, like pretty much everyone expected. And then they have to fly straight to Vegas and they get the Golden Knights home opener in one of, if not the loudest buildings in the NHL on the very next night. And the lines certainly show it. I mean, Chicago, they, after a loss to Colorado, they're plus 280 tonight. The Golden Knights, who most people didn't have that high of expectations going into the season, are minus 350 tonight against the Chicago Blackhawks at home. It's like I said, not any favors for the Blackhawks. What a brutal way to open up the season. Hey, listen, before we let you go, you mentioned Vegas there. That was a highly entertaining opening night on

on Tuesday. And, you know, they come back. And I said this to you just before we started rolling. I don't know it was a late game winning goal, but man, nobody celebrates goals like Mark Stone. It always looks like he just scored a playoff clincher, series clinch or whatever, but that was a highly entertaining opening night game for the Golden Knights on Tuesday. Yeah, it was. The Kings and Knights, I mean, they're expected to kind of battle for, I think most people think Calgary and Edmonton are the top two in the Pacific, and I think the Kings Knights in Vancouver are sort of the next three. They're going to be battling all year. Man, that was a fun game. They were trading punches.

There were a ton of lead changes. Every time one team scored, it seemed like the other team had the answer for it. It was a really, really entertaining game. The Kings are fun to watch. The Golden Knights obviously played really well in that game. I was surprised at how good the Golden Knights looked in that game. I was kind of thinking that it was going to be some learning curve with Bruce Cassidy's new system, but they played really well.

And probably the most important thing, you mentioned Mark Stone scoring that goal. Talking to him after, he felt great in the locker room. He last year, the back injury actually happened at in LA at Crypto.com Arena. He said I was like, did you think about it? He goes, well, I was sitting in the same stall this time. So yeah, I did think about it a little bit. And he gets the game winner. Feels great.

That's obviously to me the biggest X factor for the Golden Knights this season. So overall, a really good opening night for them. And now they're opening their home arena tonight. Jesse, just real quick before we let you go, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you as a goalie, your thoughts on Jack Campbell absolutely trucking a dude last night? Yeah. You know what? So in that case, he was just kind of defending himself. Like, he didn't initiate it. The player ran into him and he trucked him. I'm okay with it. But I will say that even though I'm usually like the guy that defends the goalies, no matter what, I am very, very against

goalies hitting guys. The reason is because I think goalies should not be hit. And I think that guys should stay, should avoid contact with them as much as possible. And if you're going to start lowering your shoulder, that's going to end. And guys are going to start initiating the contact. I'll never forget, I was in a men's league game. And I went over to the corner and I got the puck. And I tried to rim it back around behind my own net, but I kind of flailed on it. So the puck just barely went, I don't know, 10 feet.

The guy's coming up behind me. He tried to go between me and the boards. And it was honestly stupid, but I just like a reaction, I hip checked him. And I flattened the dude, like absolutely obliterated him because he wasn't expecting the hit. Like it's different when you go to the boards with another forward. You're bracing for it. You're balance. You're ready for it.

I've knocked the wind out of the sky. I've never felt worse in my whole life. I felt so bad. And like that really sticks with me. Like these guys are not expecting to get hit by a goalie. So it's dangerous. And I think if you do it, if it becomes a thing, the goalies are going to start getting hit. And you don't want a bunch of injured goalies.

So to me, I am against goalie. he's hitting guys. We need to track this guy down for a future podcast, the guy that you hit. You need to track that guy down. I'd be in for that. I'd be in to hear from his vantage point how that unfolded. Hey, listen, Jesse, this was great. Thanks for dropping by, as always, on the Thursday pot.

Enjoy the Vegas Golden Knights season opener. It should be spectacular. I know you had a piece about kind of what to expect for the fans this year. So it should be, as always, high entertainment at T-Mobile, and we'll get you get next week. Definitely. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, Jesse. All right. As always, time for us to move along,

open up the mailbag. We always get lots of emails and voicemails and questions thrown our way. You can hit us up with an email at the Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. Leave us a voicemail at 845-4-459. Let's start with this one from Pierre, who says with the waiver wire about to get super active here

at the start of the season, some good players will inevitably be put on waivers. I'm a Habs fan. Absolute best waiver pickup we ever had, and I think in the modern era, is Paul Byron. Calgary gave up on him, and he then became a very important part of Montreal's bottom six, scoring an iconic goal in the playoffs against Toronto a couple of years ago,

chipped in with big games all through that run in the final. My question is, who is the best waiver wire pickup of all time? That's from Pierre. So Pierre's saying, look, and Paul Byron was good for Montreal, a free player, really effective penalty killer, a lot of speed, that huge goal against Toronto a couple of years ago. But he said, like, okay, there's got to be somebody better than him. You know who comes to mind for me right away is Ilya Brees Gallov, right?

Yeah, that was. Was the coyotes picked him up off the ducks? Yeah. He went from Anaheim to the coyotes. Yeah. And that was a situation where the ducks, you know, they had cat problems. They had, you know, a couple too many goalies. And they knew he was going to get claimed.

it was sort of a chance for him to get a start somewhere else. But yeah, he was quite good because he had certain showing some ability in Anaheim, but it was really in with the coyotes that he really established himself. And ended up cashing in pretty well on that. I'll give you a few others. Yeah. And one of them that is a bit of a weird one is Chris Koonitz. Speaking of the ducks, he went on waivers from the.

the ducks to the thrashers and then back to the ducks in the span of a couple weeks before he established himself as a top tier player. And then obviously he goes to Pittsburgh and kind of finds new level with City Crosby. I don't even know if he played for them. He was Atlanta property for a very brief, a very brief amount of time. I'm going to check and see if he even got a game. Yeah, he did. He played two games for Atlanta. No points, minus three, back on waivers. Minus three was a team best over a Two games fans. Exactly.

Yeah, he should have been named captain. Yeah. So that, you know, that was a bit of a weird. But as far as guys who like became another goalie, Chris Osgood, going to the Islanders, they also picked up Afghani Nabok. Remember when he tried to come back from Europe? Oh, yeah. The Islander snagged him.

That was a bit of a thing. It was a bit of a thing. That was supposed to get him? I think so, yeah. Is that right? Yeah. To Vancouver was one in the 90s. It worked out pretty well.

Steve Sullivan got picked up by, Chicago. Right. I believe he was a real good player coming over from the Leafs. Michael Grabner famously picked up by the Islanders and then had like 30 goals as a as a rookie and went on to become pretty good player. And another one, an underrated one, but Francois Bocherman was put on waivers by the Canadians and picked up by the blue jackets. Or the blue jackets. And then they ended up sending them to the ducks in Fedoroff trade, I believe.

But yeah, that was. that was a good one as well. And the other thing that I'll say about this, because I guarantee there's people yelling names at their device right now, there's a lot of guys out there that fans remember as being a waiver pickup that weren't. Guys that either got picked in free agency

or maybe they got traded for cheap or something like that. But like Chris Draper was not a waiver wire pickup and a bunch of other guys. And the one that comes up the most often, In fact, if you Google, like, best waiver pickup in the NHL, the one name that keeps coming up is Martin-L-S-Luil from his days when he first broken in the NHL with Calgary, and then he ends up making his way to Tampa Bay, where, of course, he blossoms as a superstar and a Hall of Famer and all of that. Not a waiver pickup.

Now, he was waived by Calgary at one point, but nobody took him. And it was then as he went to, I can't remember if it was. was free agency or if it was through a trade. But he was not picked up on waiver. So if you're yelling Martin St. Louis at me, that's one of those weird memories where a lot of people remember him being a waiver guy. But he was not. He was a free agent, undrafted a free agent to the flames, waived.

Anyone in the league could have him. Nobody took him. And then ended up signing that summer. I'm looking at it now as a free agent with Tampa Bay. Maybe it's because I'm in Buffalo. But same thing happened with Jason Pommonville, where he was placed on waivers. anybody could have had him and he ended up sticking with the sabres and, you know, ended up becoming a pretty productive player. Yeah.

I think Danny Breyer may have been another one. You know, we're talking about a lot of these smaller skill guys in an era where that was tough. I feel like he may have been. In fact, all of them are the same. Steve Sullivan, Marty St. Louis. Yeah. Danny Breyer. Yeah.

He may have been another one that was, you know, he had been a coyote's guy. And some Sabres fans, I've seen remember that as a waiver pickup, but it wasn't. They got him very cheap in a trade because Phoenix gave up on him, but it wasn't not waivers. Jesse has a question here again via email. It says, actually this question is more for Ian with his reporting on the Hockey Canada story. One thing I don't understand, why has there not been more criticism pointed at Bob Nicholson? He was in charge when a lot of the practices were put in place that are now the subject of this scandal. He now runs the Edmonton Oilers, and it's reasonable to assume,

that whatever practices Nicholson did at Hockey Canada would follow him to the Oilers. No? When the Kyle Beach story was unfolding, we all had questions for Joel Quenville, Mark Bergevin, Kevin Shevled Dayoff, despite the fact they had moved on to new organizations. Now, with this Hockey Canada story,

it seems like Nicholson is getting off Scott free, even though he is still involved with hockey. Quenville lost his job over it. Should we not be asking the same question to Nicholson? How can we trust the Oilers are not doing nefarious things as well? That comes in from Jesse. And listen, it's a very, very good point. And I would imagine, look, I'm not, I haven't been to Edmonton recently.

I'm not into that media sphere. I'd like to think the Edmonton media at some point has made the request to speak to Bob Nicholson. And the answer has come back that Bob's not doing media. Like, at the very least, I'd like to think that that mechanism has, you know, been activated where people said, we want to speak to Bob and the others are like, no, he's not speaking. Now, what I do think is interesting is that at some point here, Sean, I think, and it might be this

month. I don't know. In fact, I think we're going to get some answers here the next couple days, but there's going to be, believe it or not, another round of parliamentary hearings. And our understanding is that Bob Nicholson will be the person on the hot seat. So it's a great question from Jesse, but I

think that answer is going to, like that, those criticism around Bob Nicholson, it's all going to come to light within the next couple of weeks. Because I suspect when there's a next round of hearings, Bob Nicholson will be the one sitting in the hot seat. Yeah. And just to be clear on the timelines, Bob Nicholson was president, CEO of Hockey Canada, for 16 years from 98 to 2014.

So he was an absolutely fundamental figure, shape the culture, what have you. He absolutely should be part of this discussion. but he was long gone from there by 2018 when that World Junior incident that spurred all of this took place. So let's let's, you know, just be clear that he doesn't have to answer for that, but for things that came before it, including the 2003 situation, then yes, he absolutely needs to answer some questions. And it sounds like he will be given that opportunity. Yeah. And look, one thing we've seen with that story is it feels like, you know, give it 40,

eight hours or so and there'll be a new, you know, a new piece of information coming out of it. And look, if there's anything we've learned from, from last week's disaster of a hearing, if you're Bob Nicholson, go in and just answer the questions. Don't, don't get defensive. Don't think that you can outsmart or push back or, you know, dance your way around this.

Because that just makes it far worse. And, you know, we saw that with all the resignations this week. That became inevitable as soon as that hearing last week finished, because it was just such a mess, such a disaster that you knew that nobody was going to come out of it. So just, you know, these are fair questions, give them fair answers, and then the consequences land where they do. Okay. Let's wrap this up on a Thursday like we always do. A little trip down memory laying. It's this week in hockey history. Got a couple of dates here that I want to tackle. The first one is October the 11th, 1987. October 11th, 1987.

Doug Jarvis sees his consecutive game streak and at 964 games. You know what? He was banged up, had an injury, so he had to sit out a game. So he plays 964 in a row. He's like, ah, coach, I can't go. You know, I'm feeling, I'm not feeling 100%.

Okay, no problem. He sits out of the game 35 years ago this week. He never plays again. He gets sent to the HL right after he's, he's back from the injury and never appears in another NHL game again. Fascinating. Yeah. That's wild.

Like, imagine 964 in a row, you get hurt and then you never play again. Yeah, I mean, very clear that, you know, at that point, he was in the lineup because of the streak. But still pretty fascinating that that's it. And said that, he wasn't an old guy at that point. I mean, he was 32. not especially in the 80s. That wasn't old by by hockey terms at all. But, you know, when the end comes, it comes, I guess.

And that was kind of a weird one. That's given Phil Kessel nightmares right now. Oh, exactly. Exactly. You break the record. Oh, you felt it a little bit with Keith Yandel, right? Where it was like, man, this guy is just playing because of the streak. Yeah.

It is interesting that You know, at least Doug Jarvis You know, and I go, this is This maybe sounds like a strange thing to say But like at least he had the streak end by injury Not that you ever want to see someone get injured But when you look at some of the other like Keith Yandel Just just getting scratched out of the light up

Remember Andrew Cogliano getting suspended? Yeah, one game suspension Yeah, weird ways to end it. Steve Larmer had his who look, we all thought was going to beat Doug Jarvis Has it end due to a contract hold? out. Yeah, it was a lot of guys, you would think Iron Man streaks end by injury, but they typically don't in the league. Did for Doug Jarvis? Did the sharks not manipulate it with Patrick

Marlow where he had a streak and then, like he hadn't signed a contract, but they waited to sign him. Was that the one? Was that the one? Yeah. So it was, and a lot of people were like, wait a second, because with Steve Larmer, it was a holdout. Yeah. Steve Larmer, it was a holdout. And And so therefore, you know, he was because he was a member of the Blackhawks. He had a contract and he didn't and he didn't play. He did have a contract. He did have a contract. Oh, he did.

He did have a contract. So he wanted more money. This was back in the day where you could, you could hold. You just say, I want more money. I want to renegotiate. You don't see that anymore because he can't renegotiate a contract. Whereas with Marlow, he had no contract. And so even though the sharks played and he wasn't in the lineup, it didn't, the league ruled that it didn't end his streak.

because he wasn't property of an initial team at that point. And then they had to sign it at the right, because if they had signed him to the contract an hour before game time and he hadn't played, then that would have ended the streak. So they had to sort of time it properly. Imagine going into Bill Words's office and asking for a raise. Yeah, that was it. He just, I mean, he wanted a raise slash he wanted out is what he wanted.

And he got it. And I think everything I've ever seen, I haven't seen him express. regret that he lost the streak to that. But there certainly were people who felt like the streak should continue. But back then, the NHL, if they were, the NHL pretty much made the rule on the fly, and they weren't going to side with a player in a dispute with his ownership. Okay, one other one I want to sneak in here for this week in hockey history. This week in 1992, October the 13th, 1992, the Calgary Flames took on the Minnesota North

Stars in a regular season game that was played. In Saskatoon, the NHL kicking off a neutral site schedule that for two years in a row, every team would play two neutral site games. So in fact, two extra games were tacked on to the regular season schedule. Every team would play 84 games. My question to you is this. Would you like to see the return of neutral site games in the NHL? I mean, we're...

Or we just run out of markets. I feel like, well, yeah, they kind of did run out of markets a little bit. and they, I don't think it was ever as much a success as they had hoped it would be. But it was, it was neat to see. We see it still kind of, I mean, obviously you have the Europe games. And then you have the, in the preseason. We do, we do have those. So that is, that is a little bit, a little bit interesting.

But it's, you know, it was neat back in the day, but then also. Yeah, I don't feel like it really worked as a success. And the other thing that happened back then was, remember, they added two games to the schedule. It was 84 games for a little while. But that was that way they didn't miss out on home dates and that sort of thing if you went to someplace and didn't sell out. But it was still pretty cool. Big week in Saskatoon because, you know, what date did you say October 13th? October 13th, 1999.

You don't happen the day before that in Saskatoon? You don't. You definitely don't. Well, why on earth would you know what happened on October? Because I heard Saskatoon 1992. I know something that happened in the fall of 92 in Saskatoon, and so I looked it up as we were talking, and I realized it happened the day before.

Talk about it, but this is the biggest 48 hours. Brett Hart beats Rick Flair to win this first World Wrestling Federation Championship. Saskatoon, we all remember. Brett Hart or Bobby the Brain, Heena just losing his mind. Saskatoon, so maybe we don't. Your greatest, 24 hours in Saskatoon history. I mean, it would have to be. Other than that brief period where they thought they were getting the St. Louis Blues,

that was pretty good consolation prize. By the way, what are they doing making the Flamesplayed the North Search? You got to put the Blues game in Saskatoon. Like what are we doing, guys? Just for full troll. Yeah. Yeah, fully. 100%.

Oh, man. By the way, random neutral game fact, people may not remember this. Pavel Burray actually scored his 50th goal of the season. I believe the first time he got 50 goals. He scored that goal in Hamilton. Oh, wow. His 50th.

His 50th goal was in Cops Coliseum. Cops Coliseum. Cops Coliseum posted more great hockey goals than any other. Without ever actually having an NHL team. than any other. You know, I'm just looking up like the venues

of NHO neutral site games. That's going to be an article sometime, ranking all of the neutral site. Yeah, number 12, Milwaukee. Yeah. I feel like Milwaukee would come in higher than that. Come on, man.

Milwaukee represent. Oh, man. All right, we'll leave it there. You and I will do this again next Thursday when perhaps we'll be dissecting the O and four Leafs. Oh, boy. They will be dissected if that's what's going on.

Jeez. All right. We'll leave it there. Thanks everybody for joining us. Like I said, we'll get you again on Thursday. As always, email us your questions. The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. Leave us a voicemail at 8454-4-459, not a subscriber with us. You can join us at the athletic.com slash hockey show an annual subscription for a dollar a month for the first six months. We also have something really cool called The Athletic Audio Plus. On Apple Podcasts, we've got some bonus content there from the entire network of podcasts. We'll start with a 30-day free try. And then it's just 99 cents a month after that.