The Athletic Hockey Show - The 'cooked' Penguins are open for business and Frank Corrado debuts with the Seans

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Sean Gentille and Down Goes Brown along with former NHL'er Frankie Corrado discuss the disappointing Penguins being open for business ahead of the trade deadline, the development of Juraj Slafkovsky in Montreal and Quinton Byfield in Los Angeles, Frank laments getting sent down by the Pens ahead of his only trip to Vegas as an NHL player and the boys' stick tap Nathan Mackinnon's 27 game home point streak and his chances of breaking the all time record held by that Gretzky fella.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Good afternoon. Sean, they let us do another show. Cool. Nice. It's a street now. It's sure to last forever. Welcome to the athletic hockey show.

This is the two Shons and a Frank edition, I think, is what we should be calling it. It just rolls off the tongue. I'm Sean Jantilly. He's Sean McIndoo. We have Frankie Carrado as our. I don't want to say he's our guest because he's not our guest. He's just the third guy. He's the third wheel who shows up periodically.

We're like, we did ask him either. He's just, he's just going to like. The whole theme of this show is two dudes who think they know hockey, talk about it. And then every second week, a guy who actually knows hockey shows up and politely probably corrects all of our bad takes. We had our little like pre-show meeting. a week or two ago where we just BSed and got to know each other a little bit. And the first thing Frankie said was,

do I have to change my name to Sean? Which I thought was a good sign. And he said, yes, absolutely. And I don't think the legal paperwork's done yet, which is disappointing. I'm not familiar with that part of a Canadian paperwork. But yeah, we'll see. So Frankie's going to be around in a few minutes. He's going to stick with us for most of, for most of the afternoon here.

And he's going to be here every other week moving forward. that's kind of the plan. So if you like what he says, which you certainly will, because it's going to be good and funny and Frank is the best, then you can just ignore us next week and come back. Come back week after that. Eventually we'll introduce like a

Sean filter where you'll be able to click a button. It'll just be awkward silence, and then Frank coming on going, no, guys, incorrect. And then saying intelligent things, it's going to be good. Just get someone else named Frank to come on. If only there were someone. Um, it's, I feel like it's been a low-key, like sneaky kind of busy week.

There's been some, there's, there's been some stuff that's happened. Uh, we're going to try not to talk about Morgan Riley and Ridley, Greg for the next 45 minutes because we've all had enough of that. But, uh, that's been, that's been in the atmosphere. Um, but I, Sean, I think that I think where I want to start here, the one big thing that I've learned in the last week. What do we learn, Palmer? I don't know, sir. I don't know either. And it took me a while to get there because I feel like I've talked about it on whatever, on the show with Haley and Max.

I feel like you and I talked about it. I think the Penguins are cooked. I think Pittsburgh is done. We saw Pierre LeBron go on TSN last night and say, you know, that they're essentially open for business. They're not going to be trading Sidney Crosby or Gany Malcon or Chris LaTang, but they're listening to offers and they're kind of ready to roll, is there whatever it is nine or ten points out of a wild card spot here 18 days from the trade deadline

it took me a while to get there i think i was making excuses for them for for longer for probably longer than i should have um but they're cooked right like are we are we ready to say that i think they are and and i like i'm with you on it probably took me longer i'll just say it took me longer to get there because it's the Pittsburgh Penguins, then it would have with other, like, you know, if the Minnesota Wild had the exact same scenario playing out, I would have just been like, yeah, they're, they're out or most other teams, but because it's Pittsburgh, because it's Sydney Crosby, because Kyle Duba's so clearly went all in on this year and went out and got Eric Carlson, and I kept waiting.

I kept giving them more rope. and at this point, the way this week has gone, and even the last few weeks, three wins in their last 10, just fallen out of the race. And it was almost a situation, and we see this around the league this time of year a lot, where there are some teams where you go, you know, buyer, seller, not sure.

And for the GM, it's basically like, you know what, you guys tell me. You guys have got a couple weeks to tell me. And the penguins have told Kyle Dubas, you know what, we're not very good. So feel free to do whatever you've. need to do. But I tell you, here, here's my question to you as, as Pittsburgh guy. How is that going to play in Pittsburgh? Because even a couple of weeks ago, I remember writing

that like, with Jake Gunsell, I said, I would move them. And I had a bunch of Penguins fans make the not unreasonable point that, hey, even, you know, go ahead and trade Jake Gunsell. We all know the Penguins, the prospect pipeline is barren. They desperately need picks. They definitely desperately need some young players. They said, yeah, okay, go ahead and trade them. You're going to get a prospect and a first round pick, maybe. First round pick's going to be in the 20s. You're not going to see that guy for three years.

The prospect is you're probably not going to see for a couple years. And meanwhile, you've got Sidney Crosby playing at an MVP level. So how does this help? You know, what future are we building towards? So how is this going to play? Like, is Dubas going to have carte blanche from the, from the fan base to do what needs to be done? Or is there going to be pushback on this going like, We got to squeeze every last drop out of this veteran corps that we've invested so much in.

It's really easy to say that they should go out there and move Riley Smith and Noel O'Chari and Ricard Raquel if somebody would take. Like guys like that, that's one thing, right? And I can guarantee you that the fan base is more than ready for that. They're ready for the Riley Smith era to be over. I can guarantee you that much. It's something else entirely when you're like, we're pulling the plug here, actually,

for real. And moving Jake Cancel, who's one of the five best wingers that's ever played for this franchise, who's been stapled to Sydney Crosby, basically since he came in the league. And he's pending UFA, clearly.

That's why this discussion is happening. Cutting ties with that dude. Now, even when we hurt whatever at now at the deadline whenever it happens that waves a different sort of white flag i think than than than than a lot of people are ready for and i think that's what i think that's what a lot of folks me included honestly is as someone who has to talk about this team more more than i more than i'd like to um i was that was that to me feels like the red button that's like that's like that's like the move that that that really signal something different and i sincerely did

partially because the metropolitan division like it's it's mediocre like it seemed like they'd seem like they're they had a bunch of games to play before the deadline it felt like they were going to be able to at least get to a point where you could squint and see the playoffs off in the future and if that's the way it is if you have a prayer i've been on this train for years with them if you have any hope of making the postseason, you lean into it because every single one of these seasons is precious. You don't get, you get Sidney Crosby once in a lifetime. Like you got to make it count. But I am fully now because, again, they are eight points out of the wild card grace and not playing

particularly well with a zillion teams ahead of them. Like the die has been cast. You've got to do what you got to do. So if you feel like Jake Gensel is going to be too expensive to sign long term, you trade them. And you have to know that by now, dude. I mean, there's, there's, what did you make of the, the Sydney Crosby comments this week where he was basically asked how he would feel about those sorts of moves? And he certainly didn't endorse them.

But he also didn't draw a line in the sand and say, no, not on my watch. Don't tear this team off. I'm going to put him on my back, you know, whatever. Like he, it sounded like he was sort of implicitly given permission to Kyle Dubas to do. what needs to happen. We know that there's like a threshold that we know like what his limit is with that. Because he's not a guy who's, first off,

he doesn't want to be perceived as a guy who puts his thumb on the scale when it comes to this stuff. Part of it's about public perception, but part of it is also about he doesn't, he doesn't want to interfere. Like that's sincere on, on his part. We've seen him do it in the past.

We saw him do it two years ago with Malkin and Latang. That was his like, lay the card. on the table and be like, listen, you are, you are signing, you are bringing these guys back. Like, you know, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I think you realize what I'm talking about here when I say, you probably should, you probably should sign these guys long term. Like, that was, that was, that was when he used his cloud. We know what that looks like. And I don't think we're seeing that here. Yeah. And,

and he did. He said that. You said that to Rossi, Rob Rossi, a, a few days ago, I, I, I believe, exclusively, like, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not put my thumb on the scale here. like Kyle needs a duty, I'm paraphrasing there, but that's, you know, that's basically what he said. Because I think he's a reasonable dude. And I think he can look at, you know, at the standings, both in the wild card and in the division and be like, we don't have the juice this year. And it's playing so well. It's a joke. It's a joke that that dude is, he's going to be on heart ballots this season.

People are going, people are going, he's going to be ninth and in, or whatever. People are going to vote for them. On a team that misses the playoffs. Having this season that we've, who is the last 36 year old to do what he's done? It doesn't happen. And it can end quickly. And I say this, I say this every week, dude. I say this every week.

Joe Sackick, a guy who was an MVP candidate late and due his 30s until the second that he wasn't and then it was done. It was cooked. Steve Eisenman was another one. just it's and and and the game I always play in people who have listened to me before I've heard me do this is I always you know go back to opening night and if somebody told you right and if somebody came to you and said you know hey opening night hey you know what's going on in Pittsburgh right they got Eric Carlson isn't this going to be crazy and if somebody said sellers at the deadline five points eight points out of the playoffs you would say two things you go

oh okay so probably probably the goal tending wasn't good No, actually, gold hunting's been pretty good. Goldennings has been surprisingly good. They go, okay, so Sid must have finally hit the wall. No, Sid is having one of the greatest seasons of his career. Everything factored in, you know, not the overall numbers aren't going to get there, but he's phenomenal. He's not of the rest of it work. Tris and Jari's leading the league and shutouts in Sid's having maybe the best five-on-five production of his career.

They're how many? They're eight points out. So they're in first? No, they're behind the flyers. They're actually behind the caps in the red wings. Yeah. And they're behind the cats.

So a vetchkin must be having a great seat. No, no. Actually, you know, it's, it's why, you know, this league,

this is why I do the prediction contest and all this other stuff every year. We always get to this point and there's people who are like, ah, we all knew the penguins weren't going to be good. No, We didn't. We don't know anything on opening night.

And then we just fill in around it and we fake our way to pretending like any of this makes sense. I mean, we got, we do up. We got, we talked about Cid, we got to talk about Oveskin, at least quickly. Was there like an Oveskin question on the season, on the season preview? Like, was there any? I didn't know. I didn't have anything like that. But I got, I, he's good again.

Finally, after he's, half a season when he wasn't, well, he's scoring again. he's scory because because I say he's good again and some people are going to go no he's not and and some capitalist fans are going to say he was good all year long if you actually watch the games you can see all this stuff but yeah he's he's been scoring again which is good because that's that's the only thing we didn't want all of us was Alexander Ovechkin crawling towards the goals record I felt like it was I think I was on the verge of not jumping ship but saying like um is this going to happen? Because he started, how many was the 64 or however many was it, you know, very, very recently. And you're like, okay,

you start doing the math. And it's not, it's not favorable. But he's, you know, 16 points. He had a six game goal streak. He's showing a pulse.

He needed to have an outburst like that for him to get back on track. And I, like six games and six goals and six games is not, is nothing this needs at. And it's the, but it's also the kind of thing that he needed to make up space. Because, because,

Because if he stayed in the tank for that much longer, then we'd be like it's going to be two more seasons after this one, maybe for him to do it. And that's when stuff starts to get really, really squishy. Because this man is, this man is, Christ, he's older than mean, which is wild. That's, yeah, which is, whoof, that's, that's, yeah, six goals and six games, or as Austin Matthews calls it a good 48 hours.

Oh, I think, I think Austin's going to come up with Frankie. I think, I, I think we have some awesome questions, Tito. up for a teathe'll hold on that that's the perfect uh that's a perfect segue it is a perfect segue coming up at sean carrato frankie there's still time to back out man you don't know you don't have to do this actually my first question to you guys is is this going to be video recorded as well because i'm not having a good hair day and uh if it was just audio that would be great they've officially they've officially rescued everybody we don't have to worry about our contract no video because I'm glad you got the gray hoodie memo, though, like this.

The other Sean didn't go with the official uniform of... Well, you know what? I got a little something going here. Are you guys fans of the show Friends at all? Yes. You know, when Phoebe Buffet, she has a little bit of a raspy throat and her singing voice is really good. Before I start, I just want to say that I have a cold.

So if I sneeze in the middle of a song, it's not on purpose. Snowy cat What are they feeding you This chick sounds good Like I have that right now And I got some sensual tones But a little bit of a scratchy throat at that expense We'll give it a work

You don't have any TV to do tonight or anything So we'll just just grind you to Travel Day I'm out in Sean Gentilly's neck of the woods today head into Pittsburgh. Dude, I wish we, and I'm not there, which is bogus. I hate this. Yeah, well, I mean, DGB brought it up. Like, you're doing Habs games consistently.

Like, you're the guy at the moment, right? So you're in Pittsburgh for Habs Pens, which is on Thursday night. You know what? Yeah, so Dave Poulin takes the job with the Sends. So I got this great opportunity now to start. doing some color for for habs games and um it's it's been very it's been very cool to watch the journey of slapkovsky suzuki and caulfield like cofield we'll start with him like his shooting percentage was down quite significantly early on like he was probably at seven seven and a half

percent um his career shooting percentage was probably in the 12s and i think last year he was 16 he was really hot last year he went on a stretch i can't remember how many games in a row he had a goal. It might have been five or six games in a row. Like it was, he finally found it. His shooting average went up 2% in like a month. And he's doing more than just scoring goals. Like he's, he's making plays. He was playing away from the puck.

Nick Suzuki, for me, is he falls into that, doesn't get enough love around the league category. I think a lot of people still see him as, you know, the ceiling, a number two center on a really good team. Like, this guy's doing a. a lot with a little bit in Montreal. And like he just, it's almost like he makes the game look easy. So you almost come to under appreciate exactly what he does.

He's been really impressive. But the biggest story and maybe the most polarizing thing between Habs fans and the rest of the league is the progression of Yerai Slavkovsky. And it just, it seems to make the rounds a lot. And he's the first overall pick. And I think a lot of people expect a lot. lot more out of him production-wise. And here he is. He's got a 10-game point streak now, I believe, going into tonight's game

against the Sabres. And, like, night and day difference between last year and this year, where last year, like, anything that could have gone wrong for the guy, it felt like it did. Where constantly getting hit, constantly, you know, getting knocked off the puck, felt like he was thinking his way through the game. And a lot of the narrative was, well, the NHL, it moves too fast for him. And he's not quite there yet. And I know that, like, being around Marty St. Louis had to have been massive for him.

And that was always going to be the thing that you wrestle with. Do you send him down and get him away from Marty, get him away from Alex Burroughs, or do you keep him in the NHL and live with the growing pains, but still have, you know, daily exposure to a coaching staff that has been there and done it and can really, you know, lean on you with some hands-on stuff. They chose to keep him up. And looking at the way things have gone now, it's been the right decision because all that hesitation in his game is gone.

And he's using his frame, like he's six foot three, 230 plus pounds. He's actually using his body, you know, to protect pucks, to play a little more physical. His shot is actually really, really good. And we're seeing that kind of come to light. He's like night and day between what he was last year. what he is right now. Yeah, you said polarizing, and I think that's a good word because Habs fans are feeling feisty right now about this guy.

There's some, I don't want to say victory lab, but there's definitely like an undertaker sit-up vibe happening with Habs fans around this kid. Because look, we are too quick to judge a lot of these guys, absolutely, but he wasn't great last year. I mean, it's not like, you know, last year, for. a first overall pick, even in a, you know, it's maybe a so-so top of the draft. The numbers you look at were, we're not there. And the tricky part is you can look at some other guys who became stars in this league.

Leondresightle being probably the biggest of them, Joe Thornton being another guy who had lousy first years. You can also look at a lot of guys who came in his high picks and had lousy first years because they were just lousy NHLers. Well, I also think you, you know, know, you compare first overall picks with first overall picks. And in this situation, I don't think that's an apples to apples comparison because this was the age group that was the most affected by COVID.

And they were the ones that lost a lot of games at a crucial development age. So if you, like, if you open up Slavkovsky's Hockey DB page, he was probably the one that was able to play the most out of all the guys because the OHL was shut down and, you know, even the queue and the dub, like they had limited seasons. He was able to play the most, but it still stunts your development. And I think you have to compare him to the guys he was drafted in his own draft. And who went second overall that year? Was it Nemitz?

Like he was playing in the American Hockey League. He's just finally kind of made the step up to the NHL. Logan Cooley had a really good start to the season. I believe now Slavkovsky is ahead of him in points. and Shane Wright is playing in the HL. So when you take a look at that, then you compare apples to apples within his own draft.

It doesn't look that bad. The problem is, you know, we look at other players that were picked first overall, and it's Connor Bedard, Connor McDavid, Austin Matthews. Austin Matthews had four goals in his first game. He had four goals in his first season. And I was down, I was not playing in that game.

I was down in the bowels of the Canadian Tire Center. doing a miserable bike ride and this guy was put up for goals and we couldn't believe it like it was myself i can't remember who were the healthy scratches that game but it was it was us and uh and the strength coach and we're sitting there like this can't be real like this guy cannot be doing this in his first nchl game and in typical leaf's fashion i believe we found a way to lose that game as well so all was right in the world in that moment i was trying to like like very very quickly see who else was on the bike with you in October. I think it was black. I want to say, I want to say, okay. Because I remember, I remember Poli, I remember Poli, he had just come off the World Cup of

hockey. And he's such a great guy, like, such an awesome team guy. He had just come off the World Cup of hockey. And he was healthy scratch for the first game of the season. And he had been healthy scratch the first game of the previous season. And once he got in the lineup, he obviously never came out. He ended up getting traded to San Jose, I believe, with James Reimer, comes back. And then I think he was sitting there. And he said to me, I don't like to complain too much. But are you telling me I was good enough to play in the World Cup of hockey two weeks ago. And now I'm not good enough to play on the top six on this team in the NHL. Like it doesn't make sense to me. And I go, holy, I think you got a good point there.

And sure enough, the next day he was in the coach's office, making that point abundantly clear to our coach. I think it's going to go back to something he said about Slavkosky too. Like, what would the good be in sending him to the American League? Like the guy's six, he's, you know, six, three, 200, whatever. Like, is it not now? Not now. No, well, Sean, my point, my point at the beginning of the season was if you were ever going to do that, last year was the year to do it where you just say go play there's not going to be any pressure on you no one's going to be

talking about you you just go play down there and don't even worry that this even exists but they they didn't do that so once you didn't go down that road last year you don't go down that road this year because it sends the wrong message it's like you just went through the whole year in the nchl mind you he did get hurt last year and he ended up missing some time i think that's even another case to be made for you know having some patience with him like he missed a significant get a chunk of time. But with that being said, the time to go to the HL was the first year. So you go into this year, you keep him up.

And it absolutely 100% turned out to be the right decision because he's playing great. He's like he's really assertive on the power play as well. You know, the last game they played on Saturday night, there is a little clip there where he has the puck in the neutral zone. And he like stick handles through a couple guys standing still eventually makes a good play on the puck. I was like, he would never. never have done that last year. But it just goes to show you, like, the hesitation is going away. The confidence in his game is growing.

And that's a welcome site for Habs fans. And I kind of made the comparison during one of the games, like, what if he could turn into Chris Kreider plus? Like, what if he could be Chris Kreider, maybe a little better than that? I think they should take Chris Kreider and just Chris Kreider. Like, that would be, that would be fine. That would be incredible. Well, like, the guy scored 52 goals two years ago.

And if he plays, like, if he ever gets a little bit of that mean streak and nastiness that Criter has, I think the template is right there as far as that's a guy that's six foot three, 230 pounds and a very successful power forward. I got to say that's, you take the 50 goals. I don't know if Chris Kreider is the name you want to be dropping in Montreal, though, because they still are not over the carry price. And I was very nervous. That's a great point.

I was very nervous. We did it. We did an opening hit for the game. And I looked at Brian Moodrick, my play-by-play guy. I said, I'm going to drop the name Chris Kreider. He goes, you sure. All right, buddy. Just, you know.

Yeah. And I did say it in the head. I'm like, you know, I know he's been public enemy number one here in Montreal. But, uh, I mean, it just, it, it is a little bit of a compliment at times when someone, you know, a fan base hates someone so much. Like Brad Marchand in Toronto or Brad Marchand, anywhere. You know, people hate them and they would probably like them on their own team.

So let me just ask this then. I'll go the other way because Habs fans have had to listen to people call this kid a bust or a potential bust or he's on the way to being a bust. And now it's kind of tilting the other way. So let's let's go crazy. Like what is what's the ceiling here? I mean, you mentioned Kreider. Criter's a great player.

I still think if you have a first overall pick, you're probably aiming higher than that. So what can we get to? Can this be like a Miko Ratonin? Could it be like is Leondra Saito? Maybe, you know, he was an MVP. So that feels a little high. But let's let's go.

Let's pump the tires of the Habs fans who had to spend a year listening to everyone talk about. I will. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I used to do the All-American show, me and Custins. I'm simply not going to let this Chris Kreider slander. Man, is that guy?

I don't think it's slander. I think I think it's complimentary. DGB, of course it is. I mean, yeah, it depends. It depends how you look at it. See, I'm not, I'll be completely honest with you. I'm not there yet with Miko Ranton. I just think like, wow.

I remember Ranton and coming into the league. I would have been around still when he came in. And he, like right away, he was more polished, Rantanin. And I still see that in his game right now. I think with Rantanin, there's a little more offensive upside. You also have to keep in mind, like, Rantanin has played with Nathan McKinnon a long time. And they've just, you know, they've had really good teams the last few years. But, like, when I say Crider Plus, I think that's kind of what I'm getting at.

It's like, that's a good, attainable goal for the player. And maybe there is a little more offensive upside than with Crider. Because in the, like, Crider had a big year, two years ago. I think previous to that, it was, you know, 50 to 60 kind of points. Like, I have no doubt at some point in Slavkovsky's career, he's going to be, like, he's going to be touching a point per game player. But even if he isn't, let's say he isn't, if he finds a little bit of that, that nastiness and he brings a different kind of element, I think that's what made him such an enticing

prospect, because the way he's built, he's going to be able to do things in the NHL that not everyone is built to do. And that's what, you know, I think that's what Habs fans get really excited about when it comes to the future of his game. Like, no, you know, no disrespect to Shane Wright or Logan Cooley who are drafted behind him. They're just not built the same way. So they're always going to have, you know, some kind of physical limitation where your eyes, he's a big, big man child.

And if you can find a way to extract something else, aside from the good shot or the good skating ability, it's like that's that kind of X factor that a lot of teams really want to get and it's hard to acquire via pre-agency or trades. And, you know, if you have a chance to bring that into your organization through the draft and harness that and develop it, that's why I say like, you know, maybe it's not quite rantinen, but it could be like, you know,

Kreider on his best year. And I think that would be, that would be, I think that would leave a lot of happiness in the Habs fan base. Okay, well, I can't, I can't leave this with happiness on the Habs fan base. Let me just ask one quite, real quick, give me almost a yes or no answer. Slavkovsky, Kaufski, Cawfield, Suzuki. if that's the first line, can you build a championship team with that as your first line? I do believe so because I'll use the example of Vegas last year.

Like, does Vegas have a first line that really blew you away? Like, was it the perfection line in Boston? Is it, you know, Matthews, Martin, or Hyman, or is it Nugent Hopkins, McDavid, you know what I mean? Like, so if right now the HABs where they're at, they have a really good first line. They have some players lower in the lineup who provide a good service to them, play with some energy, some physicality.

Right now, lines two and three are in transition. Let's call it that. It's some players, maybe some older guys, maybe some older guys with some expiring contracts or a couple of years left that at some point need to be moved their way out of the lineup. They haven't quite made that, they haven't made the transition there. And that's the black hole in the lineup for them when it comes to their future moving forward. So if you build a second line and a third line that's quite good, but not, you know, superstar power, all of a sudden you turn into a four-line team that can have some versatility.

It may not have the highest upside, but that seems to be a good recipe for success. And I would cite Vegas where, you know, every line that Vegas has, had a centerman who could play on both sides of the puck, had some bigger bodies lower in the lineup that played with some physicality. And it wasn't just one line that had to do all the work. And if that's where the HABs can get, I think they'll be very happy with that. With that being said, it's incredibly difficult to do.

Like very difficult. Every team would love to achieve that. The thing about starting a rebuild is it's not really a timetable. You know, there's not, I don't sense that there's a lot of pressure to be good right away. So they do have time on their hands to try and make that happen, but they'll have to make the right moves along the way. I mean, because they're still, it's all about trajectory.

It's not necessarily that they need to, you don't need to finish with whatever 88 points is here to feel good about things. Like enough stuff has happened at the individual level where like Suzuki, there have been flashes in the past where like at times he's produced, at times he's been a more complete player. Like it's always been kind of he gives one away to, to make the other work. And now it's like he's just doing,

he's doing everything, right? Yeah. And Slavkovsky is, you know, we've talked about him plenty. So like, you see those strides in an individual players and it's like, I don't know how you look at the season is anything.

That's all it is. That's what this year is. It's looking at the individual players and seeing the growth. And I think a lot of that has to come on the blue line as well. Like that's, that's where a lot of their, um, you know,

their transition is going to be focused because they have a lot of really good young blue liners. And the champion. challenge for them is do you keep the right ones? Because there's not enough room for all of those guys. And, you know, some guys have come in and basically been non-negotiable guys like Kate and Gouli, from the moment he stepped in the league, has been 20 minutes plus every night and, you know, bounces back every time he seems to make a mistake. Like, he's there for sure. Like, he's not going anywhere. And then between, you know, Struble, Kovicevich, Harris, Jack-Eye,

then they're going to have like this next young crop with Mayu and Rinebacker and Lane Hudson like who stays who goes and you know do you trade the wrong guy and that's the for me like that would be the biggest fear when trying to construct their blue line for the future. We talked about, sorry Sean. We talked about Slifkowski being a guy that drafted early, comes in big hype. supposed to be a franchise player and then gets off to the slow start. Another guy fits in that description, Quentin Bifield. Got a hell of a goal last night. Yeah. Having a great season, but that goal last night, if people haven't seen it,

seek it out. Because I got, I will admit I'm an Eastern sports writer. So, of course, I go to bed before the Kings or any of the West Coast teams play. I woke up, I had a text from somebody going, just quentin by explanation or exclamation point. I thought, all right, he must have done something. And then I swear I was catching up on my Twitter feed. And every second tweet was people showing different angles of this.

It was one of those, it was one of those goals. Here's my question of you. It didn't take very long this morning to find that goal. And I also got that same text. And it was from our producer, Jeff. And as soon as I saw that text this morning, I said to my head in my head, in my head, I love hockey. I watch a ton of hockey.

I do this for a living. There's no way that I was staying up to watch a Los Angeles Kings, Columbus Blue Jackets, 10.30 p.m. start. There's just no way. But anyways, I ended up catching the highlights this morning. And Quentin Byfield, that's probably like goal of the year candidate. He scored a really nice one early in the year in Montreal as well. But there's another like really good example of a kid. that was taken high in the draft and a team expects that kind of player like second overall

like that's the kind of guy that's supposed to change the complexion of the the future of your team. It didn't happen right away. I believe in every year he's been in the league, he's had to spend some time in the American hockey league. And there was another player in Quentin Byfield who kind of had some development stunted by the COVID years. And so now he's finally playing. His team is, you know, better around him.

even though they've been struggling recently, but they've played better under Jimmy Hiller, which is encouraging. But yeah, just like, when you talk about these young guys, they obviously have the skill set or they wouldn't have been drafted that high. Like, they can skate, they can stick candle, they can shoot all that kind of stuff.

The NHL is a very difficult league for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is just the mental grind that you have to go through every single day. And the change in schedule is very different than what you go through in the, American Hockey League and junior hockey. Junior hockey, American Hockey, basically you'll practice all week long

and they might sprinkle in a random Wednesday night game. I know they're trying to do more of that now in the HL because they're trying to get away from the three days and three days. So they sprinkle in some Wednesdays. But my point being, it's a predictable schedule. So you know when your practice days are going to be, you know when you have to ramp things up for the weekend, then you have a day off coming and you do it all over again.

The NHL is not like that. The NHL is games every other day where you have to manage your highs and your lows, and it's very difficult to do so. And you can get caught up in, oh, I'm tired, or I'm not feeling it, or I don't have confidence. And if you don't have confidence and you got four games in six days, you're screwed because you're just not going to find it, whereas you can kind of reset. You can reset in the HL.

You can reset in junior hockey. You don't have that opportunity in the NHL, so it's up to you to find it. And that's a big challenge for young players who make the jump. So quitting byfield now obviously has the skill set. That's on full display, especially last night with that goal. But it does take a little bit of time to figure things out in the NHL. And like that's, you know, that's one of the hurdles that he would have to deal with. And that's also a welcome site for the LA Kings because that's someone who's supposed to,

you know, take this team and take the torch and kind of carry it when when Copatars gone and, you know, like that those are the guys you're going to look to and good for him for kind of sticking with it because he's having a big year now. Yeah, and it's definitely for Kings fans. Like you talked about with Slavkovsky, it was like, while you look at the other guys in the draft here, Kings fans meant to watch Tim Stutzlow become, you know, step into the league. And within two years, he's a 90-point guy. And they're sitting there going, did we pick the wrong guy?

Doesn't look at anymore. I got to ask, I got to ask Frank, you do these great breakdowns on TikTok where you, you know, you'll take a play or a goal and say, okay, who did the right thing, who did the wrong thing? And it's, it's really good. I've been saying for years, there's not enough X's and O's in what we do. Do you even bother doing a breakdown of that quitting byfield gold? Or are you just like, good luck, boys. That's the guy like that decides it's going in, it's going in, whatever you do. I think with something like that, you can kind of see what happened there.

Right. Like when I do those things, I kind of, first of all, I've been incredibly busy, so I haven't been able to do them as much as I would like to. But I want to show someone the strategy behind what's going on on the ice. Like what is a player thinking in a given moment and kind of show how quickly things can happen? And I think for a goal like that, it's literally just, dude, that guy is really skilled. and that's a great individual effort and you can see it.

But when there's multiple breakdowns and you say, how did that guy get so wide open? I think that's a great opportunity to kind of say, okay, let's see, like let's see what happened here. Maybe someone was highly intelligent on the offensive side of the puck. Maybe someone missed their assignment on the defensive side of the puck. Like, let's see what this team is trying to do. And I think with something like I feel is just like,

you do your thing, man. Like that was that was very very Zach Werensky is so happy to hear that there's no breakdown coming of that. He does not need to see any slow mo of a play because didn't go great for him. I think it might have been Adam Bokfast's too. I like see that that's how good the byfield goal was. You're like,

who did he cook? Was it was it Werenski? Like whatever. This is the benefits of playing the Columbus Blue Jackets, right? That's like they're there must see TV. They can just posterize it. Yeah.

We're, us Eastern media, we don't see it. This is like you are truly one of us now. You're, you're falling asleep during West Coast games and trying to pretend like you watch it. I actually, like, I do, I do like, because we do a lot of sports center stuff at night, like, you just have to stay up anyways because you got to do the hits at around 1 a.m. to, you know, have them ready for the morning show. But like Vancouver's been a team. Like, I stay up and watch a lot. They've been, you know, they've been really excited. And like their game last night against Colorado, I thought they handled, like they handled themselves much better, obviously, than they did against Minnesota.

But even the previous game against Winnipeg, like where I thought against Winnipeg, that was, that was very telling as to when a team really asserts themselves physically over you, how do you handle that? Do you retaliate? Do you get lost in the game? Like there's a game within the game that happens when something, you know, when, when, when, when, when, you know, when, when. It's that physical. And I thought their number one priority in the game against Winnipeg was we have to answer the bell here. We have to show that we're more physical than them. And in doing that, they made some critical mistakes that led to, you know, high danger chances for Winnipeg.

And going into Minnesota, like I still felt like that was still kind of within their game. And last night, they did a better job of kind of managing things against the Colorado team that, you know, when they get two goals, from from johansen um different team you know like that's absolutely that's been like that's been one of the biggest things for colorado is what a lot of people assume the leaps are and they're probably not wrong at times it's like a one line team true if you watch colorado um that's been the story for them all year long uh-huh wait because johansen had that he he was you know at least producing at the start of the year and then went in the tank for a while but like you you get you get you get

goals from someone like him. Things, change in hurry. It's different, right? It's different because everyone's, like, everyone's all, everyone's all over McKinnon. And especially with a good team like Vancouver, like they're going to have the, the horses to kind of go up and down the ice with him. But, you know, can you get something from your second line? Look at all the, like, all the best teams that we've seen over the years have had a one, two punch down the middle that can give you something.

And like, if you don't have that, you kind of get what Toronto has been in the playoffs a lot where it's like five on five can you find something you know and and even you know looking at Toronto now when was the last time Tavares scored a goal at five on five was it you know December um you know halfway through December so like that's you know that's always going to be hockey will change a lot over the years it's changed a lot from when I was in the league to now but yes those many years ago that you're in the league it's changed a lot man you want to Okay, so I don't know how much time we have left, but I was just, just cook. Let's go. I was at the Leaf, uh, Leaf, uh, Leif Colorado game on a Saturday night.

Uh, it would have been in January, I think. And I was sitting next, we were in the alumni box, myself, my wife, and we were sitting next to Chris Verstieg and his son. And Chris and I were talking throughout the game. And we go, man, I think I would have got hit in that moment. And he looks at me, he goes, no, no, no. He goes, you would have been hit. Then that player would have been. And then we started going through like every shift and we're like okay so when when we were in the league that would have been still staying on the boards that guy would have got finished there and then he's he's like buddy my i used to get boxed out from the corner and i wouldn't be able to get like to the circle and he's like i would have guys like matt green who were six foot four two hundred and twenty

pounds cross checking me mauling me and it was all good and he goes now you can't do that. Like you can't cross-check guys like that. You can't start your box outs. And he goes, the whole game, like the whole game. And we came to an agreement on this. The whole game was played on the wall. And that's like, I don't know, was that five, six years ago? And now it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's way more free flowing through the middle. Guys are, you know, guys are making plays. And it's like, it is, you know, in five years, it's, you're five or six years, it's crazy how much the, the game has changed. And, you know, it kind of goes to what torts. has been talking about when tort said it's a dumb league it's a dumb league it's changed for coaches too

and we've had to make adjustments because there are so many mistakes made i guess the thing with the young athletes is sometimes you have to wait your turn right as far as gaining respect and and not wanting everything right now and not expecting everything right now as far as ice time as far as your contract whatever may be i think that's where i think the athletes have changed They have entourages around them that I think direct them the wrong way. And the hierarchy of a room, the hierarchy of what it is to be a pro, the process you have to go through as a pro, I think is lost a little bit with the athlete now.

And that's something I miss terribly in being in the league for so long, seeing where it's gone to now, great athletes, great skill, great speed. But the mental and the understanding what it is to be a pro and responsible. the National Hockey League, that's where I have some struggles. Were you applauding when he was saying that? Were you like, hell yeah. I wasn't applauding it. I would just say it's different.

It's different because, you know, guys, guys were kind of, they had more of a defensive kind of awareness, like the gamesmanship, I think, has been lost a little bit along the way. And I think, you know, coaches have had to adjust to the modern player where these guys came up with, you know, putting the puck through sticks and pylons and all that great stuff, but like managing the score, managing the time, like those kinds of things. You watch games now and you're like, it's a two one game with three minutes left and you decided to go up the middle. Are you crazy?

Like, you know, those kinds of things happen. I think for a guy like Torts, who's been around the game a long time, must drive him nuts. Okay. Speaking of the old school coaches, all right, so you can't go up the middle, you can't go off the board. You know where else you can't go? Las Vegas, apparently, to see a concert. Because that was big news this week.

The Nashville Predators, with their big field trip to the sphere to go see you to get shut down. After a couple of bad games, a couple of bad practices, apparently. It got spanked by Dallas last week. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was 9-2,

9-2 loss. And, and, Andrew Brinette and and Barry Trots come in and say, you know what, trip to Vegas canceled, the early trip to Vegas, the concert canceled, everything.

And there was a, I mean, there was a debate on Hockey Night in Canada about that, where, you know, Kelly Rudy was kind of saying, you can't do that. You can't take something away

that's already been planned. And Kevin BXA was like, no, go ahead. It's on the road. Go ahead and yank it away. Give me the player's perspective on that. How ticked off would you be if you had something like that plan, presumably a little while in advance?

And then the coach, comes in one day and says, you know what, forget it. You're not doing it. Yeah, there would have been a lot of pissed off guys about that. I'll just tell you briefly about how the schedule works, like in an NHL season. So obviously you get your game schedule, but we get like an internal schedule, basically, month by month with here are our practice times, here's our plane times, here's when we're going to travel, all that kind of stuff.

Because of the CBA, there's days off on there, right? Those days off are like, that's the. gospel like that because you know guys have wives girlfriends kids you know with with the the way the season works you're you're always at the rink you're always traveling so those days off those like are sacred and i know in the past when things have had to get shuffled around with the days off guys do not like that because it creates an issue for them where it's like i had a birthday party planned for my kid and now I got to rearrange it. You know what I mean?

Like there's a human element to those types of things. This is not that. This is different. This is an extra trip to Vegas. The team obviously hadn't been playing well. And it's funny to hear like hadn't practiced well. Like every team now or pretty much every team. If they're not doing it, they're behind the times.

They all videotape practice and watch it. So there's no hiding in practice. practice anymore. And it's not like for, not for punishment reasons. Like I think they want to see like, I don't know, how did the power play look in practice today? Like, you know, so you get to look at it that way. But, you know, let's, let's call a spade of spade. They want to see your, your effort and how you're practicing. Because practices are, I don't know, they're just, they're just as important nowadays. Anyways, something like that would piss a lot of the players off, but they've won a couple games since then. So obviously the message was sent and it was the right message.

And it kind of just goes back to something you learn early on when you're a player. You're not entitled to anything in the NHL. Like you're really not. You're not entitled to ice time. You're not entitled to being there. Like you're constantly having to show your worth. And, you know, a trip like that in the middle of the season is supposed to be looked at as a reward, you know, for, for your effort and what you've achieved so far.

And if it's not going well and there's an effort issue, it's hard to argue. Like, it's hard to have a problem with that. It's hard to be outraged with that. You're simply not entitled to whatever you want in the NHL. So, you know, the results have been there since then, so it's hard to argue what they did. Did you ever have any Vegas off days?

No, I, you know what? You want to hear something really sad? Yeah, yeah. of course I do. The first year, Vegas was in the league. That's what we're all about here. Yeah. And I had been called up and we were about to go on the Vegas trip.

I was all ready to go and I got sent down. Apparently, I got told that there was four days left until my waiver clock was going to have to renew. And if I was with the team for the duration of the road trip, I basically would have just flown there and then had to fly back because, you know, they didn't want me to have to clear waivers again. So if they send you down, you know, your waiver clock kind of renews. So anyways, how about you just, how about you just send me back in the middle of the trip?

Like it'll be, let's find a way, let's find a way to make this work. What are these, what are these paper transactions I keep hearing about? Yeah. Couldn't they, couldn't they just said you like to,

yeah, like, send you to, send you to like air quotes to like wheeling like for a day or two. Let's fire up the old paper transaction for a day. Were you there with the Leafs? Wasn't there something with, why do I feel like there was something with like a helicopter and a golf trip?

And there were some guys who were going to go play golf and that got shut down? I wasn't there for that. But I do know that the first year that Vegas was in the league, I was talking to some of the guys on the team like, hey, where did you guys end up staying? Because everyone just had a sneaky suspicion that with Lou running the show, the boys weren't going to stay on the strip. And sure enough,

like, what gave him that idea? Where did you guys stay? Nowhere near the strip for your information. They're over by the practice rink in like Henderson or whatever. Lou does not strike as a Vegas guy. He's got some friends in Vegas, though, I would imagine.

Yeah. Frank, this has been great, man. That will do it again. I think so. I think we're going to do it again. in two weeks. In fact, how many games are you working from now until then? Do you know? I don't know. You know what? It's kind of a blur right now. But I've called, so Thursday,

Thursday I'll be in Pittsburgh. Saturday, I'll be in Newark to do the Jersey game. Next Tuesday, I'll be in Montreal doing the Habs versus coyotes. And yeah, and then I got some radio sprinkled in. So it's all good. Busy times, but busy is good. Safe travels, man. We'll catch up in a couple weeks. Awesome. Thanks, guys. That was a good first round with Frankie. I think he's going to come back. Right?

Yeah. I think we should maybe make this a recurring segment too. Do we have a fake record? That whole thing, the whole production, it was all in act. Not bad, huh? What about the breathing, the panting, the moaning, the screaming? Fake, fake, fake. We have a fake stat to talk about here.

What is, like, we've both heard about the Nathan McKinnon and the home. It's everywhere, is it? Nathan McKinnon home point scoring streak to start the season. Now, it's an impressive accomplishment. I'm not taking anything away from that. Am I, should I,

should I care about this? Is this real? Is this? Had you ever heard of this record before? It's one of those, it happens like, I feel like we see this periodically where people talk about this record

like it's something we should know. Like, and of course, Wayne Gretzky holds the record for for point streak to start a season at home. That's too many modifiers, man. Sure. I feel like you get one. That's it.

There's one. 100%. There's one too many one too many qualifiers there for it. And of course, I'm sure like abs fans are going to be, are going to be living now, but whatever. I'm, I'm a Leafs fan. Not a lot of people know that.

Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. It's Austin Matthews, a couple years ago. head a streak of, and I don't know if he broke the record or got close, but it was goals, consecutive goals scored on the road.

And shockingly enough, given it's the Leaps, it got like big play up here after a while. It was like another rogue is, you know, boy, is he going to, is he going to continue the streak?

And I'm just sitting there going, this, it's cool. I like that he's playing well. I've never heard of this before. And I'm, I'm a numbers guy. I mean,

history. I love this stuff. if I've never heard of a record until someone's two games away from it, then what are we doing? Like, you know, Mitch Marnerhead is like beginning of the season point streak going Neelander headed this year. Like it was, and now it's the home point streak.

And I saw somebody the other day tweet out unironically because he's, he's Wayne Gretzky holds the record. Bobby Orr had been number two. And Nathan McKinnon just passed Bobby Orr. And somebody said, when you're breaking records that are held by body, when you're doing things that only Bobby O'ORA and Wayne Gretzky, you're done, you're the MVP of the league.

And I was like, what are we doing? Like, there's got to be at some point. Can we just say it's, you know, it's a nice accomplishment. But why am I hearing about this every game? And like, you know, I'm getting updates on Twitter. Like the street continues. And I'm like, I sure does. Okay.

I think that's a big part. I think a big part of it is that we're at that point of the season now, especially with, you know, McDavid making a charge and Kutrov's been there from the start. And Matthews is on pace to score 110 goals or whatever, whatever it is at this point. That's right. We're in like the heart stumping.

This is like stump for your candidate season, right? Like this is like, this is people are just like grabbing on to whatever, to whatever limb that they can, that they can reach to what, find some weird leg up. And it's like, if you,

like, look, all that is to me is an indicator that he's playing well. I don't inherently care about, because it means he's scoring a lot of games. That's the takeaway. Like,

he's scoring frequently a lot. It doesn't matter that it was to start the season or at home. It's not a record that anybody cares about. I actually just looked at, I looked up the, the main records page on, on the NHL's website. It's not even,

there's a zillion listed here. It's not even listed in single, you know, single season scoring streaks. There's goal streaks and goal streaks for a rookie and from the start of the season and goal streak or whatever, point streaks for defensemen, all that stuff. Like, it didn't make that cut. So I will not be forced into caring about this.

I apologize. Now, I will say if he runs a table and does the whole season, which I think is what Gretzky did, that will be impressive. I will check in. If he gets to the end of the year and he's, okay, he scored in every home game, maybe I'll get on on that. but I don't know if I need the breathless updates. Or maybe I do.

Maybe it's February and I should be happy that there's anything going on. He's going to, the streak is going to snap in the third week in March or something. And guess what? Nathan McKinnon, my friend, you have lost my heart trophy vote. I'm sorry. That's right. It's going to someone else.

If you want to have a chance, you better keep this up until the bloody end. That's right. So I got to say this is this is interesting is the record is held by Wayne Gretzky. Mm-hmm. And he did it an entire season, but the entire season he did it was an 80-game season. So they played 41 games at home? So in other words, he had 40 games at home.

So does that mean is the record breakable or has? Yes. What happens if he didn't misses a game? That's the other thing. Doesn't count. Does it? It's not a real. it's not a real thing.

Okay, so wait a second. That immediately got me like more interested in this by a factor of 10 is that I just figured Grisky was at 41. He's at 40. Grisky's at 40 according to the NHL. So that's, you know, so he can. So he can break it? In theory, it's a breakable record.

But again, I don't know if McKinnon missed a game somewhere along the lines. I take back. I take back everything I said. This is the biggest story. This is going to be the recurring feature. The Nathan McKinnon record watch. As soon as it's possible, as soon as it's possible for someone to break a Gretsky record, I'm like, all right, let's go.

We need to. That's pretty good. We need to. Sorry, Ovechkin, you're off the Gretsky record watch. It is now. I think we just got our main topic for next week. It's just a deep dive into the importance of. Every week after.

Of Nathan McKinnon's point streak. Because you know it's going to be like, I remember with the, with Nealander, there was like one game where it was like, he got the second assist. on a empty net goal with 30 seconds left. People are like, the streak lives. And you're like, yeah, but doesn't. Okay. So maybe this should just, they should just end. Let the old, let the old days pass away.

This was good, right? I feel like, I feel like we're two for two here. Yeah. We can say that. Oh, yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's fantastic. And, uh, Frank was great. He was, geez.

It's so fun to listen to somebody who knows what their talking. He's so much better. He's so much better. better than us. Yeah. He will eventually just take over the... It's fine. You and I are Coffield and Suzuki, and he's Slifkovsky.

His ceiling is so much higher. It might take him a little while to get there, but he's going to be the face of the franchise very, very soon. I'll tell you what, people have been arguing about my potential to be a first-line center for years, and I think everyone's just accepted that I'm just lower end. Can you win some games with me?

Yeah. Can you anything important? No. I need support. You win it. Can you make the playoffs with you as the first-line center? maybe can you win a cup probably not you're getting bounced in five in the first round and i'm just a little short guy who doesn't contribute much other than the occasional highlight

real yeah yeah it's not whatever it's not true all right buddy thanks for doing this we got to stop thanking me for doing this who cares we like we we have to do this it's like not we don't have a choice here yeah i wasn't it wasn't given an option but you're welcome i'll tell you i can't thank our listeners we love you. Thank you for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Leave a five-star thing if that's your thing and review it if you're enjoying us specifically.

Don't mention anybody else. Just talk about me and talk about me in Macon. Also right now you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for two bucks a month if you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Thursday is back with Haley and Max and me. Sorry for that as well. Sean, I'll talk you next week, bud. Right on.