The Athletic Hockey Show - The futures of Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane with the Chicago Blackhawks, Anaheim Ducks-Trevor Zegras contract talks will wait, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

On a new Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Julian reminisce about the first NHL games they ever attended and discuss covering their first preseason games of the year, the Anaheim Ducks waiting till the end of this season to negotiate a new deal for Trevor Zegras, as well as a little Multiple Choice Madness to close things out.Plus, Mark Lazerus joins the show to talk about the vibe around the Chicago Blackhawks, the respective futures of Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane with the franchise, Luke Richardson’s approach as head coach, and more.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. We're back at it to kick off your week in hockey. It is the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mettis, Julian McKenzie with you. As always, here on the Monday edition of the pod. Mark Lazarus is going to drop by. By the way, Laz is going to be a regular guest with us from time to time on the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And in the next couple of weeks, every edition of the Athletic Hockey Show is going to be looking at a big storyline.

heading into the regular season. We thought last would be perfect because we're going to talk Chicago, the rebuild, TAVs, Kane, all of that stuff. So this is going to be a fun show as we finally,

and Julian, we finally have some games to kind of sink our teeth into. I know they're preseason games, but kind of feels like hockey's back now, finally. It does, man. Like,

I got to watch the Flames play against Vancouver and to be in the building. This is the first time I ever, I think yesterday was the first, time I ever watched an NHL game of some sort in person that did not involve the Montreal Canadians. It was, it was a thrill. I was happy. It was nice. It doesn't matter if it's preseason. Maybe it's because I'm still in that glow of being a new beat reporter, being around a team every day, but like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, like, oh, man, it's just preseason. These games

don't count. Like, I'm excited at everything right now. Oh, awesome. Okay, let me write this down. 48 hours into the job Julian McKenzie says he's not bored. That's stuff. I love it. I love it. You're like, longer than 48 hours. No, no, but you covered what?

You're like, I covered one game and the magic hasn't disappeared. I love it. Hey, what's the, you said, okay, you've never, this was the first time you went to a game that didn't involve the habs. What's the first game you ever went to as a kid?

Like, do you remember the first game, NHL game you ever went to? Okay. So this is a very wild story here. I had never been to an NHL game in person, excluding, I guess, split squad or scrimmage games until the year of our Lord 2015. And the reason why that came to be was because I won a contest with a network that you used to work for, Sportsnet. They had this contest where they were looking for, like, you know, someone writing.

in journalism school or in university, either writing or doing video or basically participate in sports media. And if they won the contest, they win like 10 grand and they could work as like a scholarship or something. So I won that contest. And a couple months after that, the then Sportsnet President at the time, I know this sounds like bragging, but this is an incredible story for me. Scott Moore.

Then, yeah, Scott Moore, then president. We met up when he was in Montreal a couple months after that contest happened. And he was like, do you want to watch this Canadian's Bruins game? And I'm like, yeah, of course I want to watch this game. I had never been to a NHL game in my life. But all of a sudden, I am going to watch this NHL game with the president of a major, you know, network. Network.

Yeah. And like, I got to go like everywhere. Like we were watching the game in like a box at the bell center where I was at ice level at one point. I saw a goal go down. It was crazy. I got to watch the game from a production truck, and I saw like P.K. Suben, like, have a bit a turnover at the blue line.

I think the Bruins scored off of that. I'm trying to think of, oh, we went into the broadcast booth at one point. Dave Randorf, who now works in Tampa Bay, was covering that game. This was the first time I ever watched an NHL game in my life, and I got to watch it from all these different vantage points. And I was spoiled as a university student, which is kind of sad, considering, you know, know, as someone who's been into hockey as long as I've been into hockey.

And, you know, it just, it took me way too long to actually watch a game in person. That wasn't just something that, like, my parents could just, like, bring up money up for and be like, all right, we're going to go watch a game. It's expensive, especially in Montreal. So, yeah, it took me a long time. But, like, yeah, it's only been, like, seven years. Okay. So you're a university student watching an NHL game.

You have aspirations of getting into this industry. While the game's going on, are you, like, doing the, hard sell on Scott Moore, like kind of trying to sell yourself? Oh, yeah. Like, do you remember, like, anything you said to him or, you know? That day, that day he asked me, uh, what job would you want to do with this industry? And without even thinking I said, I want to host hockey night in Canada. Like, and after I said it, I was like, holy crap, I just said that like with, with like,

no hesitation. He was like, oh, okay. All right. I still can't believe I said that. like seven years after. And it's not too far off from what I would want to do in the future. But that is definitely something I said to him that day.

And did he respond to you? Because I think Strombo was in the host chair. Did he say, we got this guy on thin ice. Strombo, maybe we'll, well, doesn't wear ties. Nah, he was very nice about it. I think he didn't mind the confidence I showed that day. At that point, like, I wasn't going to, I don't know, sometimes with some of those people

who are in high-ranking positions, I feel if I get a little too comfortable with them, then I start to lose all the shyness and star-struckness of the whole thing, and I get super comfortable and I get super confident. And I guess sometimes it's a good thing, but I don't want to be all like buddy, buddy, pat on the back and all that.

But like, I was going to take advantage of that opportunity as a kid trying to get into the game and looking for any type of connections to help me get to that next level. And honestly, that opportunity, winning that contest, I believe it was called SportsNet Recruited. That literally has propelled me to where I am today, man. That was a very good base, I guess.

And on top of all the education I did and support for my family and friends and all that. But I don't know where I'd be without that contest. And I don't know where I'd be without going to that game, the first one of my of my life, a Canadian spruins game. And I believe the Bruins won that game. Yeah, man, I love that. Listen, I'd love to hear from our listeners. You hit us up in the comments.

Like, tell us about your first, like the first NHL game you ever went to because everyone's got a great story. Mine isn't as good as yours because I didn't get to go with a president of a major network. But I was only nine years old. I was nine years old. And we grew up, well, I grew up at that point, I went to like the first grades one through five. We lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And but yet, I know. But my parents had immigrated to Canada in the late 70.

and my dad fell in love. My dad was like an original bandwagon guy. So he comes to North America in the 70s. He becomes a Dallas Cowboys fan because Dallas was the America's team and, you know, Roger Staubach and the winning Super Bowls, all that stuff. And he became a Montreal Canadiens fan in hockey because they were a juggernaut, a dynasty, right? Like I'm thinking to myself, thank goodness he didn't come like a couple of years earlier.

We would have been Philadelphia Flyers fans growing up. But my dad got me tickets. The Canadians played the Red Wings. I was nine years old. He was Patrick Waw's rookie season. Oh. Patrick Waz rookie season. And I didn't know anything about it.

In fact, I actually thought his last name was Roy. Oh, you're one of those. I didn't know. Like, I didn't know. And I remember, I still remember, I have the program from that game, still in my archives there. It was magical to me. Canadians won the game,

I think five to three. And every now and then I like to go back to a hockey reference. You can get the box score from any game pretty much of all time. And it's kind of cool to go back and look at games you've intended. You know, as a kid. I agree, man.

I should probably go back to that box score for my first game. I know it was 2015. I think it was November, I want to say, October or November, really early on. But now when we're done this, I'm going to go on an hockey reference and find that game. Because I don't know. That game means a lot to me. I would imagine that game meant a lot to you too.

I love stuff like that. That's cool. Exactly. Our producer, Chris Flannery, by the way, has jumped into our internal chat, said his first game ever was Jets Devils. Interesting. That's the OG Jets too. But, yeah, that's the OG Jets. and this is the Devils, not when they were at Continental Airlines Arena,

but when it was called Brendan Burn Arena. Brendan Burn? What? It was, yeah. Before the Devils used to play, and I think it was Continental Airlines Arena and had a couple of different corporate names. It was called the Brendan Burn Arena. Who's Brendan Byrne? I don't know.

It's a great question. I think Polity, maybe Flannery, jump on here if you're able to and tell us who Brendan Byrne is. He doesn't know. He's going to look at it. up. I think he was like a politician in the area maybe. Probably like represented Sacaques in the, uh, I don't know. Big Chris, uh, who the heck was Brendan Byrne?

Big Chris is saying that, um, okay, you know what's funny? Brendan Byrd is a politician. Yeah, no, I did know that. I did know that I did not know that. I thought you were kidding. Governor of New Jersey, there you go. 74 to 82. Shout out New Jersey.

Uh, shout out. Also Bob Asenza. That's who apparently was in net for the Jets that night. Bob Asenza. I have no memories of Bob Asenza. He was before my time. He was one of those guys that, you know, you would debate, is it Esenza or Asenza?

It was one of those last names that you never quite knew. Anyway, I love to hear from people. Tell us about your first game that you ever went to that you have a recollection of. You can hit us up on Twitter. You can, you know, slide into the comments there. We'd love to hear from you. I want to know your first preseason game.

that you covered on the weekend. Yes. For the listeners who don't know, it's a little bit of a, we talked about this last week, it's a little bit of a precarious walk to the press box at the, the Saddle Dome in Calgary.

So this is your first time experiencing it. You did post a video, I don't know if you posted it to Twitter. I know you posted it to your Instagram account. Yes, yes, I did. It's a little bit, it's a little bit, I don't know, what's the word? Scary?

It's scary. It's a little odd. But here's the, So from my vantage point, there's like a couple steps you have to walk up before you get to essentially a bridge suspended near the top of the Scotia Bank Saddle Dome. And if you look down from where I was walking, you're basically seeing all the fans below you sitting in the stands. At least for me, you're just walking along a couple feet and then you have a row of seats and. and places where the media could sit. However, if you want to get to the broadcast booth,

that is on the other side of the rink. And it's not as if, like, you know, you're up in the air and there's all this, like, floor and stuff, and you could just walk along to the other side. Right. You basically have to cut through the press box and then walk through another bridge, which is suspended above the ice,

and, like, loop around before you get to the other side. Like it's like I took a bit a mini video of that for myself just from a distance I did not walk that part of the catwalk yet But that looks scary to me at the first intermission of that preseason game I got up and my right foot like went asleep had gone asleep from sitting down as long as I did and I was walking with a foot that was still like a sleep And I was just like oh my God like I was just like looking around and just like okay like like I hope like I don't like make a one false move or something. And I know they have little like, railings. Yeah, railings on the side. But like still, like you're looking down. One false move. My, I kept up, like, I tried doing

the video and I was afraid like, like, what if I just like, I don't know, like my phone like falls off? Drop your phone? Yeah. Drop my phone. And it just like hits someone in the head. Like, what if I had a coffee and I spill like, oops? And then it just like flies over and it hits someone in the stands. I don't know how people do it. I was like talking to like an attendant around there. And he's like, yeah, man, it's a, it's a bit of a, I think he said precarious, too. Like, it was a bit of an interesting walk. It's, it's nuts.

Yeah, no, it's, it's unique. You know, I did something this weekend, too, that I have never done. I covered a double header. Oh, how did that go? The Senators in the Leaves played a straight up double header. Now, granted, split squads, meaning wasn't obviously the same players playing the same game. I had never done this before. I had never experienced this where,

two franchises played two games in the same city on the same day, obviously different lineups. I think DJ Smith, Senator's head coach was real tired of us by the end of the day because he did three media sessions with us. He did one

before the first game. He did one after the first game and he did one after the second game. So by the time you get to the third media session, he's like, yeah, I've had enough of you. Yeah, he's like answered all the possible questions you could ask. Yeah, but it was totally different lineups, right? So two different games. You know, I think that there's some merit to it. I made sure I asked all the broadcasters.

I'm like, hey, are you able to invoice for two games or is this one game? They're like, this is two games. This is two games. I needed to know, satisfy my curiosity. Do people get paid? But there was a weird amount of time in between. So the first game, Ottawa, Toronto played at 1 o'clock, ended at like 3.30. and then the second game started at seven.

So, you know, you kind of had two and a half hours in between. And what I would love to know is, did anybody buy tickets for both games and show up to both games? I would imagine so. But that's a lot, like, that's a lot of preseason hockey to subject yourself to. I mean, that depends on how much money you're spending on those preseason games, too. What I'm interested about is for all the media members who were there for both of those games. Like, did you stay in the arena? What was the eating situation like?

That's what I'm curious about. They did offer food. There was food available. Jonas Siegel went home in between games. I was wondering. Some people would. Haley Salvean left to go feed Bono the dog. I don't even think she came back for the second game.

But I think it's because she was doing a feature on someone in the first game. so it didn't matter. Yeah. But yeah, it was interesting, a unique way to do hockey, to me, a double header, right? Because what do you think double header you think of baseball?

Yes. Right? Could you, okay, here's a question. Could you sit through a double header of baseball? Like, were you just a fan, you go to two games, or is that too much? Is that too much?

I could do it. I think baseball games, if you're there and you're with, like, either, I don't know, like a good set of buddies or like you're on a date with somebody, you want to be with them. Like, I think the idea of hanging out of a baseball game is one of the most fun experiences

in the world. I love that. Hold on. This has to be fairly deep into the relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a first date. No, not a first date. No, not for six dates to a double header. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you have to be comfortable

with that person. Like, you, like, can you imagine the first time you meet somebody and you have the brilliant idea to go out a double header, and they, and they, you have to, you have to, you have to end up being this miserable person and you have to sit through at least 18 innings. At least. And then not only that, imagine like here comes the tarp and there's like a rain delay. Oh, no. And if you bought those seats in a pretty good area, I don't know if you're trying to leave early. I get traffic is a thing, but like, you get, you get yourself some seats behind the dugout and like, you're like, man, I don't want to leave early and call this date off. but I would, I think, man,

I think I would rather do a double header of hockey than a double header of baseball. Even though baseball, you know, the atmosphere would be better, you're outside, right? But at least you know definitively when the games will end. Yes.

In hockey. You know they're going to run two hours, 45 minutes, whatever, give or take 10 minutes either side. That's it. Baseball, you could be there, you know, for nine hours. Hannah, that's too much. It could be two days, really.

Maybe not two days, but like it's, it could go, it could go really extra innings, extra innings. 18's enough. Nine is probably enough. Before last jumps on here shortly, I want to ask you about Eric, Eric Stevens late last week, had his story. Erica, of course, covers Southern California for us. And the Anaheim Ducks are going to wait until after the season.

to work on an extension with their young superstars. So they got some really good young players, right? Troy Terry had a breakout year last year. He can become an RFA at the end of the year. Jamie Drysdale, really good young defenseman. But Trevor Zegris is the one, right? Like Zegris has that it factor. And I'm curious what you think.

Here's the quote from Pat Verbeek, basically saying that he's not going to make an effort to extend any of the guys until after the season. and here's the quote. We're going to wait until the season goes. That way the players don't have a distraction. Gives the players a full year to kind of just concentrate on playing hockey. Then at the appropriate time,

we'll talk with the agents and do what we got to do. And I don't know. Like I see some Ottawa got out in front of it with Tim Stutzler. You know, Jack Hughes has his deal done. I would think Zegris comes in somewhere in there that eight times eight. Like, does this really have to be that? Do we think it's going to be that complicated? I mean, it shouldn't be that complicated.

And also, Pat Rebeek runs the risk of all three of those players having, like, maybe they play above their skin this year. And then you're in a situation where they might ask for more than, I mean, in Trevor Segris's case, for example, maybe he asks for more than the 8x by 8. Like, I guess that's the risk you run. I know the ducks are not expected to be this, like, front runner in the Pacific division. But with young talent, especially as dynamic as players like Trevor Zegers can be,

like the goal is to have them signed early on. So that way, you're not over, I mean, maybe not overpaying is the right word, but you're not paying more than you need to for those guys. So that, I guess, would be the biggest risk out of it as opposed to getting it done this past off season. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I know the ducks as well.

Eric wrote about this that, you know, You know, look, they've had a long-serving captain there, right, in Ryan Getslaw for a long, long time. And now it looks like they're pretty comfortable kind of going without a captain. And I, you know, you've seen this obviously in Montreal. You saw this as you were just leaving there. Like, you know, you got to make a decision on who's going to be your face of your franchise. I guess the ducks are just going to say, hey, just no need to rush into this thing. Let's kind of wait and see how it plays itself out, right?

What do you think of this? Like, I mean, I don't, I mean, I'm not going to act as if I know Trevor Zegris's leadership qualities that closely. I still am of the opinion that like, if you have a guy like young enough and you don't have to name him captain right away, you don't have to do it right away. I know in Montreal they did that with Nick Suzuki. He is a very mature kid. And, you know, I never believe he, I think he was going to be the.

the captain anyway. But I think if you're in a position where you don't have to thrust more pressure onto a guy who's still getting their bearings in in the National Hockey League, I don't necessarily think you have to do that. So if Trevor Zegras ends up being the captain, they need an Anaheim, sure, but like I don't feel like Pat for Beak needs to rush into that necessarily. Plus, in the locker room, I mean, I guess it depends on the leadership contingent for certain places and the veterans that they have.

I remember asking this to, I guess it's a different situation in Calgary, but I remember asking this to Tyler Tifoli a couple days ago, just like, you know, we make such a big deal about who should be captain on this team and who should be wearing the C, who should be wearing VA. And depending on the locker room that you have, you might have all these different guys who have been leaders at different points throughout their careers. And like, the letters are just letters.

It doesn't really matter to them who's got the C or the A, because anyone can be a leader and anyone can do that. I guess it's different in situations like an Anaheim where you have younger players and they're still trying to find themselves. But at the same time, like considering all the bodies that are there, considering the fact that hockey's this team sport where you have all these different people who can step up at different points. Not to mention you have your forwards, your defense spin, your goalies. You essentially need leaders at every position and even if it is just three position groups. So, you know, I'm starting to realize with the whole captain thing like, okay, this guy has a seat. but does that make him necessarily the guy above everybody else?

No, it doesn't do that. So if Trevor Zikris even gets it, like, it's just more symbolic than anything. That's not going to stop a guy like Troy Terry from being a leader if he gets to that point or Jamie Driesdale once they've ascended to that point. Isn't Kevin Chattonkirk still on that team? I'm trying to remember if he is on that team or not. Well, John Klingberg is there, and that's a guy who's... Oh, man, he's a classic, though. He's there for the year, isn't they?

Like, don't you feel like he's going to be the classic get moved out of the debt? In fact, when we did our piece last week, kind of looking at all 32 teams in the league, who's the most likely candidate to get traded? John Klingberg was the guy from Anaheim. It almost felt like with them being in the rebuild, like the whole point of him coming in was just to flip him out. Yes. And for him, it's a great opportunity to come and play some big minutes, help out a young team.

and then when the time is right, when you're likely not in a playoff spot, you move him out, right? Yes, but at the same time, if he's going to be there, like, I would expect him to be professional and for him to contribute to the team when he can and not just kind of put up, make himself some kind of outcast. But like, listen, look at this roster. Adam Henrique is there. He's played in the league for how many years.

Jacob Silverberg is on that team as well. Maxim Comteau has played a little while in the National Hockey League as well. Camp Fowler is 30 years old on that team. And yes, Kevin Chatton Kirk is on that team. John Gibson has tried to hold this franchise together for the last of the while in net. You know, there are guys on that team, even if they give Trevor Zegris the C, who, you know, they could be looked at as leaders. I mean, we have made such a big deal about the captaincy thing for so long on every single franchise. We're starting to realize that, like, players, I don't know if players really care all that.

much about having the C or an A and all that, especially if they're in a locker room where there are so many leaders who are able to voice their opinion and do this whole leadership thing by committee. It's, I know I kind of like ramble a little bit there, but like if they give it to Zegra's, if they give it to somebody, like,

I don't think it's going to matter all that much. But I guess it depends on the composition of the roster at the time. All right, tell you what, this is a perfect segue. We're talking about Anaheim and maybe looking at the captaincy in the future. and we're talking about John Klingberg being a likely candidate to be traded. When we wrote that piece collectively with the athletic last week,

if you had to look at the list of players that you're like, I'm pretty sure that guy is going to get traded. John Klingberg would be on that list, but I think Patrick Kane might be number one. On the most likely to be traded at some point this season, let's bring in, as we talked about off the top of the show, Mark Lazarus. It's going to be great to have Laz. Kind of jump it in from time to time on the Monday edition of the podcast this season.

So great to have you on board. How are we doing? Mark. Oh, I'm doing, am I betraying my country by not being on the Custins and Gentilly show here? I don't know the protocol here by being an American on the Canadian side. Ah, we, we need the flavor. You know what? We don't see borders.

That's the way. I'm on a low sodium diet. There's no flavor anywhere to be found these days. Yeah, I saw, yeah. What is this? Like, I saw you tweeting about this. Like, so what's the deal? Like, what's the restrictions?

I don't know. I can't eat anything. Apparently anything. And if I have one grain of salt, my heart and brain are both going to explode at the same time. so I live in this flavor-free existence right now. It's pretty brutal. That sounds really. Does that mean like no seasoning it on your food?

Like, what does that mean? You can say, I'm putting smokepack precar on everything just as an attempt to get something out of something. When you put, you'd have a no-salt turkey sandwich on no-salt bread, and you'll question your will to go on at that point. What's that that, is it Mrs. Dash? Can you use that? I have no idea.

I'm down so many rabbit holes on trying to find flavor that I'm in corners of the internet that I didn't know even exactly. existed. Somebody help Lazz out. One of our listeners will help you out. Help them out with some non-soidium-related seasonings.

I think this is dash. My wife suggested, she goes, you know, I hear MSG isn't actually that bad for you. That's where we've come to. We're looking to add

MSG to my food. Can you imagine being in a press box, an NHL press box and not be able to have any salt? Yeah, no popcorn. Can't eat anything. That's all it is is salt up there.

That's true. Hot dogs, popcorn. Yeah. You're going to have to eat like Albids, like you bring like a bag for yourself. It's what I've been doing to training camp every day. I've been bringing a little thermos full of grilled chicken. Oh, my God. All I was just going to say real quick is that to your point about wondering if you're

betraying your country or not, if Ian and I ever get into another bet with Custin's and Gentilly that involves patriotic pride, I'm making the executive decision here. You get to be on the winning side of that bet when we win again because. Oh. How about I get to pick whether or what side I want to be. I'm not, I'm not locked in with those guys. All right, fine. I really don't trust Gentile's, you know, well, any decision making by Gentile, frankly.

Look, man, you can make the pick that you want, but last I checked, Mendez and McKenzie are the winning side. All right. Oh, Canada, baby. Yes, sir. So listen, we, in the next couple of weeks on the athletic hockey show, every show is going to look at kind of the 10 biggest storylines coming into this season. season. And we thought this is a great way to get you kind of into the Monday show is Chicago is a really compelling team and had another interesting offseason, shall we say. And what's the, like, have you been around, I know you and Scott Powers kind of share the duties

there. So you're not at camp necessarily every day. But can you give us a sense of kind of what the feeling is in Chicago around the opening of Chicago's training camp? I'll tell you, the feeling in Chicago is not one of compelling. This is, it's more of a sense of dread from everyone in this city about how awful this season's going to be. I mean, we all know the Blackhawks are tanking, right? There is a lot of intrigue in what's going to happen with Jonathan Taves and Patrick Kane. I mean, you know, just a few years ago would have been unfathomable for both of them, for either of them to go to another team and wear another sweater.

But now we're at a point where it's almost unfathomable that they would both stay, which is just, that's how bad and dramatic things have gotten in the wake of just everything that's gone on in the last year and a half, on and off the ice, but mostly just on the ice because they're trying to start from scratch. They want to start, you know, they ripped the Band-Aid off, they traded Alex Dubinke, they traded Brandon Hagle, they're just acquiring graphics. Kyle Davison is dead set on making this team bottom out. Get Connor Bedard if you can. If not, you can get one of the other two guys up there.

There's a top three this year. So if you finish last, you're guaranteed one of those, you know, elite supposedly generational top three picks and start from there. As for Kane and Taves, it's all in their hands, right? have full no movement clauses. They're in the last year of their contract. They're clearly not negotiating extensions right now. Neither of them, I don't think, necessarily expects to be here beyond this year. But the question is, will they even be here at the end of this season? Because they have the no movement closet. If things get so bad here, right now, they're in

wait and see mode, right? They want to be like, all right, you know, we like this Luke Richardson guy. Let's just see how bad things are. Let's see if we can stomach this. And if things are real bad, maybe we ask our way out. Because Kyle Davidson does not want to be the guy who pushes them out the door. He wants them to open the door themselves so he doesn't have to be that guy. I have a question. So Patrick Kane,

all this offseason, we've seen reports of him being linked to this team. No reports, no reports. You've seen people throwing crap against the wall in a desperate effort to get clicks in mid-August. That is actually very fair. I shouldn't legitimize all of those reports. I mean, you should know if something was going on.

But look, Patrick Kane is, still playing at a very high level and, you know, there would be, look, there are going to be teams who would go for him. What does the mark, what would the market be like for Jonathan Tays? And we know him as a leader, but with health issues and his production over the last year, it is not the same as what we are accustomed to with Jonathan Tays. And he has that cap hit at 10 and a half. So what would you envision the market being like for Jonathan Taze when it comes time, if it comes time for Kyle Davidson to move on from him? It's going to be fascinating. Like you said, Kane, Kane is, he's still one of the world's best players and he will be for years to come.

He is worth the first round pick without question. But Taves, I sat down with Taves, I think it was at the end of July to talk about his future. And he basically said, look, I got no trade value right now. If I don't play well, I have no trade value. So then none of this matters at that point. And he's right. I mean, he's very well aware of that. But the second half of last season, Jonathan Taze was pretty darn good.

He was starting to look like himself again. Remember, he missed that entire year because of health issues that were triggered by COVID. He was, you know, couldn't get out of bed for days at a time. I mean, he was in real bad shape. And so he didn't have his legs for the first, you know, two, three, four months of the season. But then it started to come to him a little bit, and he started feeling good. And I think that's why he's so excited about this year is he thinks he can still be somebody. And if he goes out there and he looks like Jonathan Taze and he can score, you know, 20 goals

and he's still a good defensive player who wins a 60% of his baseoffs and kills penalties, someone will take him. I mean, he'll have to be laundered twice. You'll have to, you know, there'll be a third team in there because, you know, the Hawks can maintain half his salary, but that's not going to be enough. They're going to need a third team involved, and that'll be easy enough to do. I think that he could be moved. Here's the thing.

Everyone is assuming that Kane's gone and that Taves is untradable. I think it's kind of the other way around. Don't underestimate how badly a coach would want Jonathan freaking Taves as his third line center for a cup run, given everything that he's accomplished. They love guys like him, a captain, rings in the room, you know, the leader, all that stuff. Kane, I am not convinced Patrick Kane wants to leave. Jonathan Taves has said on the record to me, he said, look, I don't want to be, this is a five-year rebuild.

That's not appetizing to me at all. Patrick Cain won't say that, and he keeps dancing around it. Patrick Cain really, really, really wants to stay. I really honestly believe he is looking, this is just my read on the situation and talking to people around the team. He's looking for a reason to stay, not to leave. Taves is kind of looking for a reason to go not to stay. And I could see it, I could see a couple situations.

I could see one what Scott proposed in his last story, is that Patrick Kane does get traded at the deadline, but he's re-signed in the off-season, comes back to Chicago on a sweetheart deal because he wants to break every record in the Blackhawks book, right? He wants to be a lifelong Black Hawk. He wants to pass Stan McKee to Bobby Hall, and all that's within his sights.

I don't know that he wants to go live that mercenary life. And when you've already won three Stanley Cups, yes, it whets your appetite for more, certainly. And these guys desperately miss that stuff. It's been five, six years since they've played in any kind of game like that. But at the same time, he doesn't need it, right? He's not Ray Bork chasing a cup.

He could just say, hey, I've got a three cups, I've got an MVP, I've got a Kahn Smyth, and I could spend the rest of my career becoming the greatest Black Hawk of all time. I think that appeals to him. He's a Hall of Fame already. Yeah, he's already the best American player ever. I mean, Austin Matthews might pass on Sunday, but right now, he is the best American-born player of all time. Yeah, absolutely he is.

Most accomplished, and you're right, when it's all said and done, when he hangs it up, his resume will be better than any American-born player, you know, pending whatever Austin Matthews can do. By the way, I love, I think we need the trademark this for the Monday show. The fact that you dropped in, Jonathan Taves needs to be laundered twice. Like, it's cleaning money. Like it's, isn't that what retaining salary is? It's just laundering a player.

Yeah, it needs to be laundered two times. I've got to clean this money. I've been watching Ozark and Brett or call Saul, you know, was laundering on the mind. Exactly. Is there anybody else? Like we have, we're hyper focused on Taves and Kane. They obviously moved Alex to Brinkett in the offseason. Is there anybody else that you look at in that Chicago roster? Like, yeah, you know what? If they're going to complete the fire sale, this guy might be on the way out to. Well, it would in theory be Seth Jones, but A, Seth Jones, I don't think is tradable. He's just entering the first year of an eight year deal worth nine and a half or nine seven five, I forget. It's a lot of money, nine and a half, I think. it is. And I'm not sure that that's a movable contract. You can't eat salary for eight years. So I don't think that's going to be the case. And looking around, where else, who's that appetizing?

Tyler Johnson, maybe someone we want like a Tyler Johnson. They acquired Max Domi. They, you know, they signed Domi and Andreas Athanasi, you, Jack Johnson, all in hopes of flipping them at the deadline. You know, those guys can go play big minutes, resurrect their careers a little bit, make a little money in the offseason. The Hawks can get a second or third round pick. That's the goal right now, but they're at the bottom. It's Taves, Kane, and and there's nothing really left to scrape at the bottom of that barrel. Yeah. I mean, yeah, Max Domi could be that.

I mean, three million is not the worst salary. No. Domi is a 30 goal score. A Tennessee was the fastest guy in the league and he was like a 29 goal score. These guys, these are smart signings, by the, they're good enough to keep you like, you know, mildly competitive and they can play major roles. And maybe they do, and for them, you know, it gives them a chance to play a top six role. One of them's going to, Max Domi's centering Patrick Kane right now.

He's going to put up some numbers this year. And if he does that, you know, the Hawks get a first or second round pick I've out at the deadline, and Max Domey goes to a contender and he makes some money in the offseason. It's a smart play. Off of what you've seen so far in Hawks' camp, how's Luke Richardson doing? You know, I like him because his practices are like 35 minutes long. It's great. He's definitely a more of that Joel Quinville style of practice where it's, let's be really efficient.

We're moving at all times. The players seem to like him a lot. He's an intense guy, but he's also got that, you know, I was a player for 21 years. I know what you guys need and don't need. I'm not going to waste your time. And that's something that I think Jeremy Colleton struggled with at times is he was in the league for like 50-something games and he played. But he didn't have that like lengthy career where he knows how to treat veterans.

So, Taves is certainly, he's fully on board with Richardson. He likes him a lot. So far, so good. I mean, there's always a honeymoon, right? I mean, it's like the Chicago Bears. Every year they get a new coach and everyone falls for it the first three games of the season. By the end of the year, we're calling for his head.

So, you know, Luke Richardson's got a fascinating job because who has less pressure than Luke Richardson, right? This is a first-time NHL coach in an original six huge market and nobody expects him to do anything. He's expected to lose. Like they want him to lose and he's got a four-year contract. That's unusual for a first-time coach. So he's got no pressure at all, but how do you how do you do that?

I mean, this is a hyper-competitive guy and how he handles the losing is going to be fascinating to watch. Before we let you go here, now, You're a New York Giants fan, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. Let's hang up now. Our two squads.

They're hooking up, Julian, for Monday night football. Maybe we need to make this a little bit interesting. Oh, God. The Giants are the worst, the worst two and O team I've ever seen. I have no faith in this team whatsoever to win anything. But it's not like the Cowboys are like, you know, hair on fire right now. Feels like a flip of the coin.

This feels like that a level. I was having a 10 game last night with the Broncos. That was awful. Okay. That was awful. Awful. I could definitely see Daniel Jones just accidentally wandering out of the back of the end zone. Let's put it that way.

Yeah. I love that Dan Orlovsky tweet, which is like, finally. Instantaneous. He was watching. I do the same thing too. Yeah. You tell us, Julie, do we need to make this game interesting? Maybe we do something and then there's a bet.

Yes. I think you guys should. I have no. I can't be shamed. I have no shame. I don't know if you want to make Lazz do the Canadian anthem or if we can find it. No, gosh, no singing. This isn't, no, there can't be singing.

Okay, fine. It was either that or some Carly Ray Jepson song. Oh, God. Carly Ray Jepson is a national treasure. Yeah. We'll think of something for this. Also, I should mention. I just don't want to turn this into Skip Baylor situation, all right?

No. We'd have to maintain our dignity here is all I'm saying. Yeah. No, we don't have to do that. So Giants fan, Cowboys fan, and I'm unfortunately a Jets fan. So three different fans are a Jets fan. I'm a Jets fan. I'm always fascinated by how Canadians adopted NFL teams

because so many of you are Cowboys, at least hockey writers in general. I don't want to generalize. A lot of Cowboys fans or Bill's fan? But then you got Arp and Bastu who's like this diehard Dolphins fan. How the hell does that happen? I have no idea. How are you a Jets fan? Okay, here's the story.

I mean, well, it's still a bit incomplete. because there's a very big detail missing. As I hand me down, I don't know where I got it from, but as I hand me down, I had a New York Jets Viti Testa Verde jersey, and I wouldn't wear that all over, and I just adopted them. So young.

As my NFL team. It would have been someone in my age, would be like Ken O'Brien or someone like that. Freeman McNeil. Freeman McNeil, yes. Good Lord. But yeah, I just haven't broke myself to leave yet. Good thing you didn't get a Vinny Testeverty Browns jersey.

Let me just put it that way. Any quarterback ever brown jersey. Yeah. Gross. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Hey, and before we let you go last week, Julian and I talked about this earlier because

I covered a double header on the weekend. Sends and Leaves play two games, same, same building, split squad, but one o'clock and seven o'clock. Would Mark Lazarus rather watch two hockey games on the same day, double header in hockey, or a double header in Major League Baseball. Oh, God, I'm a baseball guy. I would, I would, because I would rather cover a double header of hockey. I don't ever want to write about baseball, but I would, I would sit through,

I'd sit through a double header at the ballpark any day of the week. You couldn't absolutely. We said the atmosphere was better outside, like all that, but I, the thing I, that worries me is like the, the potential of like an extra inning game. Well, that's why I never want to cover baseball, because you get to the ballpark and you have no idea when you're going to leave. Especially when I was a newspaper guy, like, you have to have to have a plugger, a story ready, just in case the game ended after deadline, literally every single day of the season. When I was, you know, when you're a hockey writer, you only got to do that

when you go out west. I can't imagine just like, and I, and again, the ghost runner rule, which is horrible, has made this kind of moot. The games don't go seven hours anymore, but like, as a fan, I love extra inning baseball and as a writer, I would hate it so much that I, it would just sour me on it. So no, I just, no, no thanks. Wait a minute. We might as well ask you when was the first, what was the first NHL game you ever went to? We started off the show that way. We might as well get yours. First NHL game I ever went to. God, I don't even remember. It was definitely an Islanders game at Nassau Coliseum. I can tell you that.

I want to say it was actually, this is, it might have been against, remember when those Russian barnstorming teams used to come, like Moscow Dynamo? Yeah. Would come through, like the Red Stars. I think it was one of those games. I think that might be the first hockey game I saw, like in the late 80s, when I was like, you know, eight or nine years old, I think I saw the Islanders host the Moscow Dynamo at Nassau Coliseum. I think that might have been the first game I went to. Wow.

I mean, I'm sure I went to games when I was like four or five years old, but I don't remember you know, anything when I was, like I was born in 1980. I grew up an Islanders fan. I was born in 1980. Islanders won the cup when I was two months old and then the next three years. I don't remember any of those, obviously, because I was too young. All I knew was 30 years of pain and misery and awfulness. and then I lose my fandom because I start covering hockey

and the islanders get good again. I'm just saying the hockey gods are cruel. Yeah. You got your David Volick moment. That's enough. That is. The Giants won four Super Bowls in my lifetime. The Mets won the World Series when I was six.

I do remember the Bill Buckner play. But the greatest sports memory of my childhood is Dave Volick scoring against the penguins. A second round victory. I don't want to hear from Maple Leafs fans how tortured they are. The greatest moment of my life was a second round victory. scored by the least popular guy in the team that everybody wanted to trade all year long.

And didn't it take like 27 years for them to get to the second round after that too? Yeah, it was John Tavares. John Tavaris. Florida in Florida. That's when I knew my fandom had died. I was watching that in the playoffs. I was covering a Blues Blackhawks series.

I was in a hotel in St. Louis at the St. Louis Grand watching that Islanders game at the hotel bar and John Tavares scored and I felt nothing. And I was so sad that I felt nothing. Because I look, look, I love hockey more than I ever. it. It's my life. It's my work. It's everything. But I don't have that individual fandom anymore. That's what this job

does to you. I think most of us can agree with that. So to watch that and feel nothing and just to text my dad who was all excited, I was like, man, this sucks. Absolutely, yeah. I didn't expect the podcast to end on a sad note, man. How many people can tell you the moment their fandom died? I can.

Yeah, yeah. The exact moment it died. Time of death. All right. Hey, Laz, this was great. Looking forward to, like I said, having you on on a pretty regular basis on the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks for this. Have a great week and go Cowboys. Oh, excuse me, I just throw up in my mouth.

All right, always great to get Mark Lazarus on the pod. And yeah, the only, it's funny he says that because, look, I grew up a die-hard, die-hard Montreal Canadiens fan as a kid. Minut I joined this industry, that fandom, unfortunately, put on the back burner.

And now I find like I cheer for points. players that I get to know more so than teams. Like I love it when you see good things happening to good people. So that's kind of what I cheer for now. But the only team I really cheer for in sports is the Dallas Cowboys. And I know exactly now that I've, we said, let's make this interesting Monday night football.

I know exactly what's going to happen. The Cowboys will lose in the humiliating fashion. And I'm going to have to do something. Yeah. We still have to figure out like what will make you do or what you do. You know what I think I should be allowed? If Dallas beats the Giants on a week of my choosing, I get the week off the podcast,

Las has to co-host with you. Like just give me, you know what I mean? On the podcast like a punishment. I like doing the show with you. Wow, okay. I see how it is. I'm just trying to get out of work. Jesus, okay.

Getting out of work? Wow. Okay. Hey, whoever wins this game gets a week off from doing the podcast with this twerp who just ended up on the podcast. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the Monday show just sucks. Monday, yeah.

I didn't, yeah. You know, I didn't say, maybe I was referring to the Thursday show. I didn't specify. Oh, so you're gonna dump on your boy, Sean McIndo? And then, and then maybe as a reciprocal agreement, maybe I have to write an article about Chicago at some point. Laz is like, yeah, I don't feel like writing today. Mendez owes me one.

I got to do a deep dive on Max Domi's analytics is underlying numbers. What about just whoever wins, a loser has to wear like a jersey of the other team. Like if you, if the Cowboys lose. So where am I going to go? I have to go get a Giants jersey. Like where am I getting a jersey? You don't like the jersey?

Where am I getting this from? I have to go buy one. I don't know. I'm not buying. Okay, forget this. You know what? Oh my God. Okay.

This is ridiculous. Listeners can hit us up. Give us a good idea for the bet. And we'll, we'll make good on it. You are not above wearing a good, Eli Manning jersey in Mendez. Does it have to be a current?

Oh, yeah, perfect. Eli Manning is perfect. If it's not a current member of the Giants, I'm good. Okay. Well, actually now I want to see you wear Daniel Jones jersey. Give me a Lawrence Taylor kind of, you know,

Phil Sims. Give me one of those guys. Do they even make, when did Shurzies start coming into the world? Like early 2000s? Like there was no Phil Sims Shersies. I don't know. I don't know if you could get one

at the Giants team store or something. Like I would love those obscure, like I would love, if I was an Islanders fan, I'd love to walk around with a David Volick Shurzy. People'd be like, that guy's legit. That's a legit fan right there. Back when I was a, a bunch of our Canadians fan.

One of the first shursies I ever received was a P.K. Sub-Suban jersey, and like, it's too small for me now, but I treasured that thing. I was hoping you were going to say it was like one of the Kestitzen brothers. Nah. Wait, which was,

one of them was better than the other. Andre is better than Sergey. Andre was better than Sergey. Andre was a top 10 pick in 03. Okay. And Sergey, the old, highlight I can remember from Sergey was not even as a Montreal

Canadians player. There was a game it was like Edmonton Nashville where like the play was like I think like the Oilers are leading some kind of like breakout like into the offensive zone. Sergey Kostitsyn is like trailing behind the play. He should be

chasing the forward but he decides to take he decides to make a line change as the oilers are going up the ice and you could see everyone on the Predators bench like be up in arms like no it's going the other way the oiler scored on that play like that is sergeant Kisitzen's career NHL highlight you can find that on YouTube he is doing a

line change as the play is entering his own defensive zone he's like all right now I'm done I'm gonna take a shift off I'm good oh my gosh man anyway let's let's wrap up as we always do on the Monday episode with a multiple choice question for you and the listeners and and me to kind of sink our teeth into I'm going to list off the four teams that made the playoffs last year as wild card entries, right? There's three division or kind of divisional teams, but each conference has two wildcard teams. I want to know which wild card team from last season are you the most certain they're going to be back in the playoffs this year?

So the four teams are Washington, Boston, Dallas, and Nashville. Will you most certain is going to be back in the playoffs again? Dallas, I mean, they just made it last year. Boston, there's something about that team this year with all the injury. I mean, Brad Marchand's not going to be playing for a little while. I still think they might do a bit of a drop. So it's really, and look, I'm open of being wrong. That's okay.

So it's really down to Washington and Nashville for me. I think Nashville, even though, they were dusted in the first round against Colorado last year. UC Soros had a pretty good year. I think UC Soros could be in for another really good year. But also Washington has Darcy Kemper and Alexander Ovechka. They still have guys who, like their window of making the playoffs is still very much a thing. I mean, Nashville just got Ryan McDonough, too.

And I get he's in the latter stage of his career, but that's a guy who knows how to play through the playoffs. I'm going to say Nashville. Nashville's going to be my pick for the multiple choice. You know what's funny about Nashville? They're kind of sneaky this way. Do you know that Nashville has made the playoffs in eight straight seasons? That's pretty good. I feel like when we talk about consistent playoff teams,

we always talk Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston. I feel like Nashville, you know, probably because they, well, they had the one year they went to the cup, but they've been consistently good. Like you said, Dallas was kind of like they're in. They always feel like they're in one year, out one year, like kind of in and out. The other three teams are Boston, Washington, Nashville have been fairly consistent. I'm going to say Boston.

Interesting. I'm going to say Boston. I think, you know what, and I know, like, there was that one week in the summer where it was like, every day you would open Twitter, like some Bruins player had hip surgery and was going to be out for, you know, three months to start the season. But I don't know. Bringing Dave Crachie back is good. Bergeron's back. I kind of think Jeremy Swayman's a pretty good goalie.

I don't know. Man, the Bruins have done, and they changed out their coach. Obviously, that's going to be an interesting thing to monitor with Montgomery in for Cassidy. But, boy, I don't know. I think that they've been so good. And you can say the same thing about Washington,

but I don't know. Patrice Bergeron, when they're healthy and Marchand will take a while. When they're, I still think, if I had to win a game, Marshan, Bergeron, Posternak might be the line I take. Might be.

They're in the conversation anyway. So look, I think it's a great conversation. I love to hear from our listeners. You could pick one wild card team from last year that you're very certain will make the playoffs again this year. Caps, Bruins, Stars, Preds, who would you take?

So hit us up there. Hit us up with the comments. Let us know your first NHL game you ever attended. You know, what Lazz and I should put on the line for Dallas in New York, Monday night football. If you own any shirzies, we want to hear about that. The most...

Radicalists is a lot of work to do. Yeah, a lot of homework here on the Monday show. I love obscure random shirisies, too, so... It's up for this. It's okay. I don't think I... You know what? I don't even own a shirzy. Not at all? Of any... Not even like a Dallas Cowboys, Tony Romo, Shurzy or nothing.

Nothing. You have jerseys at least, though, right? I don't. I have jerseys from when I was a kid. Like, not now. Now I don't, like, I haven't bought or purchased a jersey. I don't know, 15 years. I like, I can't see myself.

Like, if I went to a Cowboys game, I guess I would wear a jersey. But the last one I think I have is like Julio Jones. Or not Julio Jones. Sorry, Julius Jones, the running back. Yes. From like the early 2000s. He was like, I don't know, 2005, something like that. You have no jersey?

I don't know. I mean, I have basketball jerseys. I have a bunch of soccer jerseys, especially from the one club. You're young and cool. Like you could roll in somewhere wearing a basketball jersey. It would look fine. If I rolled in wearing a Steph Curry jersey somewhere, people would be like snickering. They were like, look at this guy.

Look at this guy trying to act like he's in his 20s. You're not pulling up to the cookout wearing some kind of like. No. They'd be like, hey, this guy's jersey. They'd be like, this guy's lost on his way to the YMCA for like a senior men's lead pickup game. That's where you got to wear a jersey. That's why you got to wear a shirt. It's just like a basic t-shirt. Instead of trying too hard with a jersey, you just wear a shirt and it has like, I don't know, maybe a promo on the back or something.

That's it. And it's just a shirt. No one could judge you as hard if you do that. Yep. Done and done. I'm going to be purchasing a jersey at some point. I'm going to find a jersey for you to wear. Okay, we'll leave it there. Hey, this was a ton of fun. I want to thank everybody for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating or review.

We appreciate that. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast. That way you can get all the bonus content from our entire network. It's a 30-day free trial and then 99 cents a month after that. Not a subscriber with us at The Athletic. Great deal going on right now. It's a dollar a month, six months, when you visit The Athletic. slash locking show.