The Athletic Hockey Show - The NHL Expansion Draft, can the Kraken be a playoff team in year one, dream primetime opening night matchups, and more

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe discuss Wednesday's Expansion Draft, how possible is it for the Kraken to reach the playoffs in year one? Also, with the regular season schedule being unveiled this week, dream doubleheader matchups to showcase the NHL on opening night on a new network. In the mailbag, the guys discuss what they would do with their 24 hours with the Stanley Cup, and is there a beverage that HASN'T been consumed out of it? Wrapping up with "This Week in Hockey History," is Chris Osgood a Hall of Famer, and a look back at Lou Lamoriello becoming GM of the Maple Leafs.Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome everybody to an expansion edition of the Athletic Hockey Show coming your way with Ian Mendezson, Sean McAdoe, in the driver's seat with you for the next hour or so. We'll analyze some of the big decisions that Seattle Cracken have to make ahead of Wednesday's expansion draft. Do they take Kerry Price, Vladi Terry Senko, Mark Giordano, or do they stay away from those high-price veterans? We'll also discuss Sean's all-time expansion draft list where every franchise had a chance to protect its best players of all time. So we'll have some fun with that. The NHL schedule is going to be released later this week. And with a couple of new U.S. TV partners coming up,

what should some marquee matchups look like for opening night and beyond? We'll open up the mailbag to answer a real what-if question around the Tampa Bay Lightning and how we would spend a day with the Stanley Cup. And this week in hockey history has us debating whether or not Chris Osgood deserves a spot in the Hockey Hall of Fame. And, Sean, as we start, you know, you and I had a chance to actually collaborate on very, look, it was a fun piece, an expansion-related piece. And I think as I was thinking about this here to open up the show, I'm thinking the last

time you and I would have maybe even collaborated on something in the print realm. I'm thinking we go back to our journalism days at Carlton. You and I took, people will laugh at this because this was in 1997, 1998. We took an introduction to web reporting. I think that might have been the last time we collaborated. on like a project in print. Yep, that's probably it. And I remember that class.

And I remember one of the things we were taught was that it was perfectly fine to just go to other sites and just take whatever was there. Just copy the photo, just cut and paste. It was okay back then. And honestly, 20 years later, yeah, that's pretty much how it turned out. So they were on to something on that one. Yeah. So listen, we did have some fun with this.

And you know what? When I pitched this idea to you a couple of weeks, ago, the idea was this. Look, everybody says the Seattle Cracket and the Vegas Golden Knights have had the expansion rules catered to them so they could be successful right off the hop, right? Like, you look at the rules and you say, wow, like they, they're going to get the benefit of some good players. You go back to the 90s expansions.

I know we've had some Minnesota, Columbus, you know, Atlanta fans get into our mentions, Florida, Anaheim, but, you know, we went back. I covered the Ottawa with senators and I said, look, and I pitched the idea to you. what if we went back and we redrafted the 1992 expansion draft for Ottawa and Tampa, but we applied the current rules to back then? Like, would we get a much better team? And I got to be honest with you, as I went through and I understand. Look, I might have missed on a couple of protections and, you know, whatever.

I got to tell you, that list was like hot garbage. Like, there wasn't anything available to us to pick that I think we at least proved in this exercise, Sean. that I don't know that the rules have been altered that much to benefit these new teams. Look, it's the rules that these new teams are getting are clearly, objectively better than what most other, every other expansion team in NHL history is had. You just, you look at the numbers, right? I mean, teams used to be able to protect 13 or 14 guys, and now it's 10 or 11, or depending on how you set up your list.

So yeah, they're getting a better pool of players for 650 million. I hope that they're getting better pooled players. But this idea that that translates to automatic success. I mean, the system's been set up. I've heard people say rigged. This system is rigged so that these expansion teams are going to be great right out of the game. No, it's not. Each team is still protected.

They're eight best players. that doesn't leave you a lot. And going back to the early 90s, obviously we had benefit of hindsight and I'm sure there would have been some mistakes and that sort of thing. But if every team really does protect their best eight or 10 guys, there isn't a lot left.

And I really feel like with Seattle, because of the pressure of the cap, because of some of the scenarios that are out there, they're going to get a good team. And we'll talk about how good that can be. But I got to say, I don't think they're going to be 109 point team right out of the gate the way Vegas was. And part of me hopes for that because then I think we will finally be willing to give the credit

to the Golden Knights that they deserve for what they did instead of what I see to this day still so often, which is fans just kind of huffing and puffing about how the whole system was rigged. And of course, Vegas was going to be good right out of the gate. And, you know, that's, no, man, Vegas was better than your team because Vegas was smarter than your team. And I'm looking forward to potentially, if we see Seattle come back to the pack a little bit, maybe people will finally have to acknowledge that. Yeah. You know what? I thought what was really interesting when we did the exercise of redrafting Ottawa and Tampa, the biggest difference, and you noted that, look, we noted this in the column and you pointed it out. The biggest

difference, as you mentioned, is the salary cap, right? Like the Montreal Canadians would never have made Patrick Waugh available. And yet here in 2020, they're making Kerry Price available, and that's largely due to his contract. And so that takes us right into this conversation on Kerry Price because I think, Sean, there's a lot of drama, a lot of intrigue. That is, to me, the most interesting element heading into Wednesday's proceedings. Will the Seattle crack and bite and take Kerry Price? Because they got five more years left at $10 million and change.

Do they look at the Vegas Golden Knights model and say, look at what Mark Andre Fleury did for them, veteran goalie at about the same age, instant credibility. instant stability at the most important position. And not that you necessarily need to market a expansion franchise. I think you're going to probably sell out and there's going to be a buzz around them first couple of years anyway. But adding a potential Hall of Fame caliber goalie could be a real game changer. So as we sit here today, knowing that the lists already, we've passed 10 Eastern time as we

record this. So the lists have been submitted. They won't be revealed until 8 Eastern time tonight. What's our best guess here on Kerry Price? because Sean, I keep going back and forth on what the, the Cracken should do with him. Yeah. And you mentioned it.

We got to note the time right now because we're recording this as the lists have just gone in. I'm assuming that some stuff is going to leak out over the course of the day, maybe even as we're recording this, certainly by the time people probably hear it. So this is dangerous territory for you and I. This is, this is old takes exposed. ground big time because we could we could we could have a take here that gets that's that's out of date before we're even finished doing the show but that's the beauty of it so let's let's

dive into it i look carry price i think that it's a bluff by seattle that's that's where i met right now and i'm saying this i'm watching twitter as i say this so i will change course quickly if I see something to indicate otherwise. If I'm an expansion team, I do not want a 33-year-old goalie with five years left on the biggest contract in the league. And yeah, for all the reasons you mentioned, you could talk yourself into it.

Mark Andre Fleury in Vegas was the most important guy that they had on that roster from day one. He gave them the start of an identity. He gave them that security and stability. And he let them know every game going out there as an expansion team that at the time was not expected to be good. We've got a shot any given night because we've got this guy back there. I get all of that. The contract, though, is just too.

It's too much. And it's not something that I want any part of. If I'm coming in in Seattle, my number one asset is I've got a clean sheet as far as the cap goes. I've got no commitments, no bad deals anywhere. I have got all this space that I can use. Yeah, I can use to add players, but I can also use to make deals with other teams. And I've got all this possibility. I don't want to tie up a huge chunk of it, not just for this year, but for this foreseeable future on a guy who is coming off a phenomenal year.

But at his age, with his injury status, I don't want any part of this if I'm Ron Francis. But having said that, I want Montreal to think that I might want a part of it. And I want Mark Bergervan to call me up and say, what will it take for you not to take Kerry Price? And that's where the poker game starts. Because if you're Mark Bergervan, you don't want to lose this guy. What are you potentially willing to do to make sure that doesn't happen, if anything? because if I think Ron Francis is bluffing, maybe Mark Bergerna thinks he's bluffing too, and then we get into this whole stare down and who knows where it goes.

But I will be stunned if Carrie Price at full contract ends up with the Seattle Cracken. I just don't see how that makes sense for Ron Francis. Okay. So that's going to be the clip we expose, isolate for the old takes exposed when that happens later on Wednesday. Okay, so you say, and I think you make a very good point, that carry price at full freight is, you know, probably a touchover paid or certainly in a cap world, it becomes prohibitive. So let me throw this theory at you. And I'm going to use the Pittsburgh Penguins as the potential, because I think there's a lot of people from Pittsburgh who feel like, man, we can't win with Tristan Jerry right now.

And we've got this tiny window left with Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin where we got to win. So here's my theory. Seattle can take a handful of players and then turn around and fly. flip them. And this would require Carey Price's approval because, of course, Carrie Price has no trade clause that can essentially allow him to handpick his destination. But let's say you're Brian Burke and Ron Hextall, Sean. And you're like, man, so Kerry Price is kind of kind of in play right now. What if we phone up Ron Francis and we say, hey, Ron, you take Kerry Price and he's willing to come to Pittsburgh for a couple of years and you take 50% of his freight, what can we give you to

make this worth. And I look at that, Sean, and I think that's the scenario where I could see Kerry Price being taken on Wednesday. If he's willing, and I almost feel like he's got one foot out the door in Montreal, I think by agreeing to expose himself in the expansion draft to Seattle, it at least opens up his mind to the idea of leaving Montreal. And so now that you've done that, I wonder, would he go to Pittsburgh and say, you know what? I got a shot to play with Sid and Gino and Chris LaTang for two years. We got one. last shot at a cup. So let me throw that scenario at you

and what do you think of that? I mean, that is the scenario where it could happen. That makes more sense to me than Seattle taking the guy and just and holding on to him. But that's a big ticket.

If they're eating 50%, I mean, we're talking $5 million a year in cap hit for five years. Again, like it's not just one or two years where maybe you say, hey, we can, you know, who knows, by the end of this contract, by the end of this five years, Seattle is going to have drafted somebody second overall this year.

That player is going to be in the league, need a second contract. That's potentially going to be a big ticket. Who knows what other guys they may have acquired, look where Vegas is at and all the big names that they've acquired in their first few years. That's a huge commitment. And let alone the dollars that come into play when, when you start to start. talking about taking on contract too. I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

But if I'm Ron Francis, I expect to get a ton in return. And I'm not even sure Pittsburgh has a ton to offer. It's as far because they've already pushed so far in on this window. It's, I mean, who's Pittsburgh's best prospect? What's their highest draft pick? I'm not sure that you could put a package together that would work. And I'm not sure that there's a lot of teams that could do that. if it's one of those things where man if this contract was a couple years shorter

I think we're right in in the mix on this this sort of conversation I'm just trying to see a team because it doesn't have to be Pittsburgh but I'm trying to see any team out there that needs a goalie that could talk themselves into that window is open right now and could match the price that that Seattle would demand because because you're right if if Kerry Price is willing to do it they're be a lot of teams at 5 million would be willing to take this guy on. I'm just not sure Seattle wants to be left holding the bag on the other half of that. Yeah.

No, anyway, that to me is one of these scenarios. And again, maybe it doesn't come to fruition, but I think that's absolutely an avenue they would explore. But Kerry Price-Shawn isn't the only big-name, big-ticket veteran available in the expansion draft. And I think Seattle is going to have some decisions to make a Vladi Teresenko, a five-time 30-goal score who's had some shoulder issues. He's available.

James Van Riemsdike has been a. pretty legitimate top six forward. He's available from Philly. So too is Jake Voracek. March Giordano could come in and instantly, probably feels like he would be the instant captain maybe in Seattle. Did they take a swing on him? He's only got one year left.

Like of those guys that are like north as $6 million per in that stratosphere, do you see, do you see Seattle taking a swing on any of those guys? Yeah, I do. And part of that is, you know, even though I just went down the importance of cap space and all of that, I mean, they do have to spend a certain amount. And that includes drafting a certain amount. So they do need, they can't just take 30 guys who are good value at a million bucks a year. They've got to have a couple of bigger tickets. And all the talks seems to indicate that Mark Giordano is a real good bet to.

to be the pick from Calgary. I think that makes a lot of sense. He's a guy potentially be your first captain. I think that works probably for both teams. Honestly, you know, Calgary losing a guy like that is tough to take, but I think Calgary is a team that needs a bit of a new direction. So I think they can live with it. And the Vladimir Teresenko, that's a scenario where the situation you described where they

potentially take a guy and then move him somewhere else. I think that could make sense, potentially retaining some salary. Unlike Kerry Price with Vladimir Teresenko, I think it is two years left on the deal. That Teresico's got two years, yeah. So that's much more manageable. That's, it's easier to project two years into the future than five. So I think that that could be a situation that it would make sense and you would assume they've had those talks already. I don't know that you necessarily take a $7 million guy and hope you can deal them.

But if they've already got a trade in the back pocket, then that makes sense. And then the two flyer guys, that's interesting. I think James Van Riemstike makes a lot of sense. Voracek maybe as well, but Van Rheemstike's a little cheaper. And yeah, you need some guys to play. You need some guys to put the puck in the net. Here's a guy who can do it. Understandable why Philadelphia has made both guys available.

They're uptight against the cap. I think this is a situation where it could make some sense for Seattle to take advantage of that and get a guy who you can drop right in on your first line. When we did our big mock draft on this week where five of us got together, we had a war room and we went down each team. We ended up with Van Riemstike and Mark Giordano on our Seattle Cracken. Did not take Price, did not take Tarasenko. Because the other thing with him is you got to remember that means he can't take anyone else from St. Louis.

So he'd lose, for example, if it's done or other options. But I think Giordano makes sense. I think Van Riemsdike makes sense. Teresenko, if there's a deal in place, but otherwise I think you leave him. You know, I can't help but think, like you mentioned, look, it's not like Seattle is going to be at 100, it'd be a tall order to be at 109 points,

Stanley Cup finalists like Vegas was. But I look at their team, Sean, the potential of the guys they can put together on Wednesday. And then I look at that vis-a-vis the Pacific Division as it is currently constructed and as we think it will go into next year. I'm starting to think that Seattle will legitimately have a chance to make the playoffs at the very least because when you when you figure in that

Pacific division and we assume the divisions go back to the way they used to be I don't know where those three California teams are at they're all in various stages of rebuilds and tear downs and I don't consider any one of them a lock to the playoffs right now Vegas is a playoff lock in my opinion and then I look at the three Canadian teams in that division and I think Edmonton could probably be a playoff team but then after that boy Calgary as you alluded to they're kind of looking for changing up the complexion there. Vancouver is a box of chocolates. Like, I don't know.

Like, I kind of feel like Seattle could make the playoffs in year one, but not necessarily be a team like Vegas that goes deep. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're, I think we're on the same page on this. I don't think they're going to be an elite team, but you don't need to be an elite team in that division. I think there's a really good chance that Seattle could be, could it be the second best team in that division after Vegas,

which means not just a playoff spot, but whole mice in the first round. And, you know, in that division, 95 points might get you there. Now, we know how this works. There's always, there's a few teams in that division that are young, rebuilding. Very often one of those teams makes a jump that we're not expecting. So, sure, you know, could L.A. leap up and be way better than we think, maybe, you know, who knows.

But I don't see anyone in that division that worries me too much other than Vegas. So, yeah, I think a playoff team is not just realistic, but I think it would be disappointing if they didn't, unless we see something from them tonight where they pick a roster that makes us go, oh, okay, they're very much focused on the long term. They're not looking for success right out of the gate year one as far as making the playoffs or whatever. If they're taking all young guys or trading guys for picks right off the bat, then that'll tell us something about the strategy. But I don't think they'll do that because the blueprint from Vegas was pretty clear that you can be competitive right out of the

gate and that can really be what builds your identity. I'm disappointed if this Seattle team doesn't make the playoffs in year one in that Pacific Division. So I think a lot of people are curious to see how the expansion, look, it's a made-for-TV event on Wednesday, right? Like ESPN will carry it in the United States sports net up in Canada. And there's going to be a sizzle factor to it. And what went through your mind when at least fans were melting down when they saw they were doing like essentially on Tuesday they were doing a dress rehearsal. And one of the things that they want to incorporate is some big Seattle landmarks.

And, you know, the Pike marketplace in downtown Seattle, famous for tossing the fish. And it looks like one of the, at least one of the selections, that they make will be done via somebody throwing a fish and saying, hey, with this pick, the Seattle Crack and select so-and-so. In the rehearsal, they actually, they went through the dress rehearsal and they selected Alex Kerfoot. And Leaves fans are like, oh, my gosh, like what's going on here? But what do you think of the flying fish gimmick and the fact that they actually used Alex

Kerfoot in the dress rehearsal? Yeah, the fly fish is, it was funny. It's, yeah, they're going to put on a show. and they're going to have to be creative because, you know, this isn't like Vegas where you can be introducing the players in front of, you know, cheering fans and all of that. They're going to, they're going to go around. This is their chance to show off a little bit of the local scene, the culture and all of that. And, yeah, throwing a fish, that's pretty funny. And also pretty funny is the idea that they put a real name in there.

and then you've got people thinking that, that, oh, it's a leak. It's, you know, I, because we did our mock draft. And I said, I had Seattle taking, taking McCann off of the leaves. And I had people go,

oh, you're already wrong. It's already leaked. As if, as if when they're doing that rehearsal, they're calling up Ron Francis going like, yeah, we need a name. We need a name from you. And it's got to be a real name off the list

because we can't do this rehearsal otherwise. I don't think it went that way. I'm pretty sure you could, you could find a way to to do that with any name you wanted, including a placeholder name. Could have been John Smith, but I guess maybe, you know what,

this might be a case where they're just smart enough to know that if you're going to poke a hornet's nest and get people talking, of course you got to do it with the maple leaves. And let's get all of Twitter talking about some third liner out of Toronto that's

going to go in the expansion draft. That's pretty good marketing. Yeah, you know, I thought the best idea that I saw floated out there, and it was pure humor, and I figured you'd appreciate this. And it was from a Twitter user whose handle is Louis Erickson's number one fan. And this guy says what they should do for the, this was great, what they should do to announce the expansion drafts because it's Seattle is they go to the original Starbucks location, which is actually right across the street from the Pike Place market there. Yeah. They go to the original Starbucks and you have a barista hand a cup over.

and it says Corey Pierce and you know you're like what? Corey Pierce and then you're like oh no he means Kerry Price yeah that's perfect

I think he could do that let's get a couple of grunge bands up there to like sing the roster and we're all just looking at each other going I don't understand what they're saying what was what was that and then we got to go and like

go online and look up the lyrics to figure it out yeah there's there's a lot of things you could do with this it's have some fun with it and it sounds like they will is it for sure Like I've seen a list of some Seattle types that are going to be there.

Is Russell Wilson involved in this? I have not seen his name. I know. I saw Marshawn Lynch, which would kind of give you the football connection, which, I mean, that you talk about having some fun. That could be fun. I haven't seen Russell Wilson's name mentioned. Yeah, which I thought was kind of weird, right?

Like, how is Russell Wilson not part of this expansion draft? But anyway, listen, it's going to be fun. I'm sure there's going to be some gimmicky things. And again, it's a made for TV event. And as such, it's going to have a little bit of cheesiness to it. And, hey, look, I think as long as it's not done in a way that the players somehow would feel embarrassed that this is how they're being picked, I think, you know, everyone can have a little bit of fun with it. You know, speaking of made for TV events, Sean, the schedule for the regular season is going to be released on

Thursday at 6 Eastern time on the U.S. edition of Sports Center. That's ER Sports Center, not RE Sports Center. And I'm starting to think with ESPN being part of this and TNT being part of this, you know that one of the best things they do with the NBA and they do with other properties, ESPN and TNT, I mean, is they really sell the stars and they really promote those kind of prime time matchups. So as we're looking ahead, like, if I gave you, Sean, I'm like, okay, we're going to go double header ESPN opening night. Who's on Sean's opening night lineup, double head where you want to sell the game to potentially some new fans and do it with some sizzle? Yeah, that's, and boy, do we ever need that? So hopefully they can, uh, that's, that's been an area

where hockey has struggled for so many years. Let's change that up. So who would I have, boy. I mean, you start with Tampa, obviously, not just as defending champs, but so loaded with talent. That's got to be one of your first games you would think. I'm tempted to put them with a team like Colorado,

kind of start that early potential Stanley Cup final hype. We thought maybe we'd get it last year didn't happen. Colorado also pairs great with Vegas. renew the rematch from from that playoff series last year. So that's certainly a good one. Obviously, anything you can do with Sidney Crosby, and I know that to some extent a lot of fans are kind of tired of Pittsburgh, always be in the marquee team.

But that's, you got to put the biggest star out there. And right now, as far as U.S.-based teams, he legitimately might be your guy. Other options, Boston's good. New York. hey, if they go out and get Jack Eichel, they move right near the top of the list. We won't know that, presumably, by the time the schedule comes out, but maybe you roll the dice a little bit because it's been a little while since we've had the Rangers as a true marquee team in this league, but they get a guy like Eichol,

then you could sell that, and hopefully he's playing by then. But I'll go with, yeah, let's do this. You wanted a doubleheader. Let's go Tampa, Pittsburgh in the early game. and we go Vegas, Colorado in the late game. What kind of ratings do you think? Yeah, and those would be great option. I'm with you.

I think you have to include Tampa, two-time defending seven-club champion, marquee star power. What about in that early game, Islanders, Rangers? Could that do it for you? Or do you need Eichol? Yeah, you know, yeah, that's especially if the Rangers are, that's such a great rivalry. I'm, oh, you see, I feel like I'm getting baited here and I know, and I'm going to fall for it.

I don't know that the Islanders are the team I want to put out there in a marquee sell the game to new fans matchup because they're so good. And I, Islander fans, I defended you. I said you weren't as boring as you had a reputation for. But they're not exactly a running gun exciting team that I necessarily want to be somebody's first exposure. If you're sitting down going, I'm going to give hockey a try. I don't know that I want to put an Islanders game in front of you. You have to have a certain amount of experience and understanding of the game to really appreciate what the Islanders do. And I don't know if they'd be the ones I'd want.

Boy, it's so and then the other question becomes, and again, we'll probably start to get an answer to this in the days ahead. You know, some of the biggest stars, the most electrifying stars in hockey happen to play north of the border. Think Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal. Think Mitch Marne or Austin Matthews. I think Elias Pedersen and Quinn Hughes are really fun. Do we see those guys kind of promoted on the U.S. platform? Because again, if you take the NBA template, that's what they do, right? They try to promote it's Kauai, it's LeBron, it's Intentacompo, it's, you know, pick your five or six best stars, and you put them on the biggest platform.

Do the Ambitant Oilers have enough of a selling point here? think you could probably convince some people with the Maple Leafs, their original 6th team. But do you think that we're going to see Connor McDavid, Leon Dries Seidel, Mitch Martin, or Austin Matthews, you know, if you want to put Elias Pedersen and company in that mix? Do you think we see them in some marquee games on ESPN or TNT? I hope so because you're right. This is this is what other sports do well. And he mentioned the NBA.

You know, the NFL didn't go, oh, this Brett Favre guy, okay, man, green, green, Green Bay, that's not a big market, so we won't pay any attention to this guy. And when Peyton Manning got picked by Indianapolis, they didn't say, well, that's a small market. I guess we'll ignore Peyton Manning. They still built those guys into marquee face of the league guys, and it benefited everybody. And you can do that here.

I get that it's different when you're talking about players in a Canadian market where you just don't get any benefit at all from that hometown market as far as the, you're as the numbers you're trying to put up. But yeah, at the very least, I don't think you build your schedule around those guys, but get them out there. There's no way that any new fan should be denied a chance to see Connor McDavid. You know, if that's the best player in the league, that's the guy that everyone else is going to be measured against over the next decade.

Get him up there. Get him. Let's see what he can do. and are you going to get the killer ratings that you would get with yet another Chicago Boston game? No, you're not, but it's an investment.

Let's make a bit of an investment in building up this fan base. And I think ESPN is smart enough to do that. This is, they didn't sign a short-term deal here. They're looking down the road. And I don't think we're going to see a ton of, of the Canadian content, but let's get a little bit of it out there and start building up, getting fans excited about the best the league has to offer.

Yeah, and I think there's a couple of really fun teams in non-traditional markets. I'm thinking Carolina and Florida, it'd be really great if those teams could get a little bit of exposure too, because again, if you're trying to sell the game to fans, I think that's what you want to do. You want to sell kind of up-tempo, fun hockey, and I think the Panthers and the Hurricanes could certainly do that. You know, as we keep on the expansion theme here in this episode of the podcast, Sean, you went through and you kind of did the work. Was it four years ago when Vegas did the expansion draft?

You went through, or maybe I'll get you to explain this. Explain this project that you had four years ago that you updated for the athletic, which was essentially all-time expansion protected lists. Yeah. So the idea here was what if every team in the league had to submit a protected list based on their entire history under the same rules that they had four years ago and that they have this year. So you could do your seven forwards, three defensemen and a goalie. You could do eight skaters and a goalie. It was just a chance to have to have a debate, have that argument.

You know, who would your favorite team protect? Who would they not have space for? And I did it four years ago when Vegas came in. And four years ago, I just said, here's the list for each team. So this year I wanted to update it with Seattle coming in. And then I had to add a new layer as well, of course. You got to add each time you bring something like this back. So the twist on it this year was I'll do all 31 teams with some updated lists based on some of the feedback and some of the players.

Some players have played their ways on or off the list in the last four years. And then once we've got all 31 lists, then we got to pick a team. We got to pick a player from each team, and we'll do that Vegas and Seattle style, where you have to pick a certain number of forwards, defensemen, goaltenders, and see what kind of team you wind up with. And this was one of those that were going in. I had no idea if I was going to have just an all-time all-star team or if I was going to have not very much to choose from. Ended up being somewhere in the middle. Obviously, certain teams are more packed than others just based on how long they've been around. But it was fun and, you know, already it just went up this morning,

but I can already see lots of people arguing in the comments. And that's half the fun of this sort of thing. Yeah, you know, the one team, as I look through it on Wednesday morning, the one team I was really surprised about their protection list was the New York Rangers. Because I'm thinking, okay, this is an iconic original six franchise, been around, we're closing, you know, closing whatever, 100 years. And like, Adam Graves? And listen, Adam Greaves is a very good player, right?

Adam Graves, 50-gold guy, won a Stanley Cup. But Adam Graves, you wouldn't think is like this iconic, like lock it in for a franchise that's been around for 100 years. Like, he's a no doubt about it protection guy. Like, I was surprised at the quality or the depth of players that you protected with the Rangers. Yeah, the Rangers are a team where, I mean, been around not the,

entire history of the league, but for the vast majority of it, predate the original six. They're the weakest of the original six teams. I don't think I'm shocking anyone by saying that. I mean, we're talking about a team that's, has won Stanley Cup in the last 70 plus years. And so you wouldn't expect them to match up with Montreal or Chicago or even Toronto. who, you know, for all their lack of success in the modern era, certainly were a dominant franchise during the earlier years. But the other thing that's interesting about the Rangers is the way that I did this is, I said, okay, each player only needs to be protected once.

Wayne Gretzky doesn't need to be protected by the Oilers and the Kings and the Rangers and the Blues. Once is enough. And the Rangers through certainly their modern history, as they evolved into a powerhouse financially and off the ice in terms of their spending power, they've spent a lot of time going after other teams players. They've been grabbing guys Mark Messier, Gretzky, you know, they had Lindros and Burry and Yager and all of these guys down the list where, for the purpose of this exercise, those players all end up getting protected by other teams.

As far as homegrown guys or guys that you look at and say this guy was a ranger through and through, there's not as many as you would think. You know, even Phil Esposito back in the day. Well, he was a Boston guy and then they went and brought him over. So I was a little bit surprised at that. But it does make sense when you just look strategically how they've tried to build their team over the last few. decades plus. All right, time for us to open up the mailbag here on the athletic hockey show. Remindy you can hit us up at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. The athletic hockey show at

gmail.com. That's how you can drop us a note. We would love to hear from you. And let's start with this one. Actually, these are ones that, let's be transparent here. I'm a big fan of transparency. So these were actually questions that were submitted to your mailbag on the print side, correct? Yeah, this is my A few That didn't quite make the cut for the for the mailbag But I thought lent themselves well To maybe more to a podcast discussion than a print one

Yeah, so this one comes in from from Philip Who says This is kind of quite a quite a what-if question here Hey guys here Does Tampa Bay win either of the last two Stanley Cups If it loses that five overtime games against five overtime game against Columbus back in round one, game one, in the play-in last August. What happens if they lose on an unlucky bounce?

And all of a sudden, those internal demons from the 2019 sweep reappear that comes in from Philip. Now, quick question, Sean. That was a five-overtime game. Do you remember who scored the winner in overtime? Was it, was a Braden point? Yeah. I actually had to look that up.

I was like, I think it's, I was like, I think it's Braden Point. but now I'm not, I'm not sure, and sure enough it was. And I remember that, you know, that was an, if I'm not mistaken, that was an afternoon game, right? That just kept going. Yeah, because they were canceling the evening games because they ran out of time because this one went so long. So remember, and this is a great point from Philip because Columbus and Tampa play

each other in 2019. One year after Tampa gets swept out by Columbus, it's very rare that you get this type of opportunity for redemption. If you're a team like Tampa, you got humiliated in the previous year's playoff. you get the same team again. And now game one is this like heavyweight fight that's going to the 12th round. And, you know, it becomes a war of attrition. So let's play the what if game.

Let's say Pierre Luke Dubois scores for Columbus. It's a funny bounce. He scores. Columbus wins game one last year. What happened, Sean? How does the rest of that series play out? Yeah, it's a fascinating what if because it really would change the entire. the entire narrative around it,

the entire atmosphere around that. And look, you know, you start talking about narratives. We always put more stock in that. It's quite possible that what happens is Tampa goes, all right, we got to play better and they just sweep Columbus aside in games two through five.

But, boy, I mean, to get that rematch after you got swept, one of the great regular seasons in history, and you just completely melt down in the playoffs. Remember, guys were getting suspended, you know, it was, it was just this awful humiliating sweep.

And you get to play that same team again. And you go to a game one. And especially if it's that length of overtime, you get five overtimes in. At some point, it's got to enter your head that, man, we can't beat these guys. These guys just have our number. And yeah, if Columbus wins that game, everybody's thinking it. Everybody's going, here we go again. This is, it's all happening again.

And you got to think that gets into the heads of the Tampa players a little bit. It was, you know, remember this was in the bubble, so it maybe wouldn't have been quite the impact that it normally would have, but maybe not. Again, Tampa's a great team. They were the best team in that series and every series they've been in and they deserve those Stanley Cups. And I don't want to go and start taking cups away from them based on a bounce here or there. But it is a fascinating what if because, you know, that that, that, that, that, that, that, That could have been a turning point in that series. And if it is, if Tampa goes and loses that series to Columbus again,

who knows what happens this year? Because I don't think the team looks anything like they did this year. Just you think there'd have to be changes. And it's the number of differing realities we could bounce down from that one Plinko chip of that overtime game. It's pretty fascinating to think about. Yeah, remarkable indeed. All right. Next question in the inbox here, the mailbag comes in from Wendell, who says,

who do you think gets promoted first in Ottawa, Jack Capuano, or Pierre Maguire? I got to tell you, I'm a little suspicious of this question, Sean. I feel like this is a plant. It's a question about the senators from somebody named Wendell. Yeah. So I feel like you have just dropped this in out of your own curiosity and given the name Wendell to it. But this is an interesting one. Yeah, this is an interesting one.

So, I mean, this is this is. And this is your territory, right? And just stuff for, if people don't remember if they miss the story, obviously they know Pierre McGuire has just been hired in that front office, not as the GM were told reporting into Pierre Dorian. But Jack Hapiano, former Islanders coach, who is an assistant in Ottawa and reportedly had interest to talk to other teams and Ottawa denied permission, which they have the right to do, but which suggests that that,

that they view him as, well, as a key piece of what they're doing, which has led some people to assume that he might be the coach of the future, although that's reading between the lines a little bit. Where do you wind up on this? Oh, man, it is a great question because I think the key element in all of this is that Pierre Dorian and DJ Smith, who are the general manager and the head coach respectively in Ottawa, are both going into the last year of their contract, right?

So they are very much in a prove-it mode. And if they don't get off to a decent start. And I'm not saying that there's playoff expectations around Ottawa. But if they come out, Sean, and like by the classic U.S. Thanksgiving, they're languishing at the bottom of the standings again, their bottom 8, 10, whatever in the league, and it looks like they're flatlining a little bit, they're stagnated, that the upward trajectory from last spring isn't carrying over,

I would absolutely positively see a change there. But then the question becomes, where does that change happen? Does it happen behind the bench? Because I feel like if you're looking for an immediate response, that's usually the route you go. Right. Like it's not often, I mean, Pittsburgh did it. Some other teams have done it where you make a change at the general manager position midseason, but that's less of a, hey, we wanted immediate change more of a big picture thing.

So I suppose in this scenario, I would, I guess from a timeline perspective, I would say Jack Capuono, but I, boy, I have a hard time seeing, like, DJ Smith shouldn't necessarily wear, to me, the, the problems in Ottawa. I think he's done a pretty good job under the circumstances, but I, boy, it's going to be, I would have to say it's Pierre McGuire. Like, if you're asking me, I think I'll go Pierre McGuire, but I, I'm up for it. It's tough because both both those guys, Dorian and DJ Smith have done reasonably good jobs. but as we know in the NHL that doesn't necessarily always matter it's it's not

it's it's it's not always about about what's fair sometimes it's it's just about the perception and uh yeah that is it's it's an interesting one um and uh yeah i you know what i might i might go maguire too i don't think they they brought him in just to to be a helper um and and look we should mention the other piece of this both those guys Dorian and Smith having contracts are coming up, they may want more or other opportunities. It isn't necessarily a case of them being shown the door. Pierre Dorian could get to the end of his contract and go, you know what, I did a great job under really tough circumstances in Ottawa.

I want to go somewhere where I've got a budget and a little bit more of a support staff and show what I can do there. And there might be people willing to talk to him about that. So a few different ways it could go. But I just found that a real interesting question. And one more here. This one comes in from Adam, who says, and this is in light of the Tampa Bay Lightning, obviously damaging the Stanley Cup last week. It got dented. It had to go to Montreal for repairs. It's back out on the road. But the actual kind of the bowl of the cup got damaged. And so Adam is wondering, what would you guys do? You know, what would your excuse be for denting the cup? But I guess in a way we would be saying, like, would, is there anything you would do with the cup, Sean, that would even put it in jeopardy? Like if, if. If you are part of, let's say you're part of a front office, you win a Stanley Cup, you get a ring, and you're like, hey, listen, August 20th, it's your date with the Stanley Cup.

What's Sean doing with it? Yeah. You know, and as sad as it is, I've thought about this. Oh, you have. Here's my plan. By the way, I do like that you put me in the front office. Even in this fantasy scenario, I don't get to be one of the players. But that's fine because that's how I would do it too.

You give me the Stanley Cup for a day. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm getting all my friends together. And we're going to, everybody, come meet. We're going to pick some spot out in a tennis court or get a rink or a gym somewhere. Bring your sticks. And we're playing an all day best of seven series. We're going to divide up the teams.

We're going to play best of seven up to, you know, first to five or whatever to win the game, a 15 minutes in between games to rework your lines, redo the. strategy, all of that. And the winner of that best to seven, we're going to have the Stanley Cup right there. We can all see it as we're playing. The winner of that best of seven, we all get to lift the cup, we get to

take the pictures, you get to do, you know, handoffs, all of that stuff. But here's the key. The losing team, you don't get any of that. You got to sit and watch. You can't even get your picture with the cup? You don't get a picture afterwards. You don't get to, there's no barbecue after where you get to

come over and be like, all right, I'm still good. No, you get nothing. The competitive levels of that. I mean, anyone who has ever been part of or seen guys play recreational sports is the competition level there. I wouldn't be worried about the cup getting damaged. I'd be worried about my friends getting damaged because somebody would wind up in the hospital for sure. The level of overcompetitiveness for that would be fantastic. I think it would be a lot of fun. It would absolutely end friends. friendships, fracture relationships, all of that. But I think it would be worth it just to watch all of my dumb, overcompetitive friends absolutely destroy each other to get a chance at a Stanley Cup handoff.

So does the losing team, do they even get like a Clarence Campbell Bowl or something, like nothing? Like that's it? Yeah, I don't know. We might have to bring back the O'Brien or something like that. But no. And you don't get to leave either. We're locking the doors.

Don't stomp off and, you know, go sulk and. your car. You got to watch me and everyone else pass the cup around. And I want some, like, photos of sad people leaning on their hockey sticks with a tear going down their eye, knowing that they just missed their one chance. But like when, when Tampa beat Montreal for the cup this year, like, Sheawebber's not on the ice while the lightning. He should be. He should be. He should be. He's not on the ice while the lightning are skating around. What are you doing this to your friends? Let them just go home. I might have. issues. I don't know. Yeah, I think so. So what I would do, here's what I would love to know.

I'd love to do a detailed, I'd like to be the one person to drink something out of the cup that's never been consumed before. Like I'm thinking, like, has anybody put fresca into the Stanley Cup? Like, what do you think? I think the answer is no, right? Like, there's no way anyone's put fresca in. Dr. Pepper, maybe? Yeah, like, I don't know. Can, yeah, I think any alcohol is, beverage. Yeah, that's out. Every, every, every, exactly. So now, I think, I don't know, can you, could, could, could, could, could, could, could, could do like a Shirley temple with that work? You know, maybe, maybe that's your option. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Where's, where's the cherry? Yeah. You'd be all right there. Just wash it well. Yeah. Wash it well for you drink. Get anything out of that thing. Wouldn't you love to do a world history of everything that's been, like, all the drinks, like, I would like a

definitive list of every beverage consumed out of the Stanley Cup. Because what was the thing? And I feel like this was when we were, and maybe it's still a thing. If you were in a fantasy baseball league, wasn't there something with that Youhoo drink? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That was the original way back then, which was, which, what even is that? It's like a chocolate milk thing.

It's like a chocolate malt drink, I think. Okay. But like, do you think somebody's had Yoohoo out of the Stanley Cup? I probably this yeah we need I was going to say we need a historian but we need a we need a real historian to get on this that's my pitch for an article everything that's ever been consumed out of the Stanley Cup ranked from least most toxic and we just see how far down the list we can get uh yeah that's uh I I think maybe just some clean drinking water would be the only thing that hasn't made its way into that, into that bowl.

Exactly. Yeah, that's a, you know, that's a great point. But people have had their pets drink it. So not even that. Because there's absolutely been people who've let their dog drink out of the cup. So I don't know. That's, you got a hundred years. There's, there's probably some beverages that don't even exist anymore that have been, that have been in that thing. Yeah, Mr. Pib or something like that. Yeah. Didn't even go to medical school like Dr. Pepper.

He's just Mr. Pib. All right. Tell you what, as always, we're going to, wrap up with a little this week in hockey history. And so as, you know what, you're going to lie. I'm trying to, I'm blanking on the guy. But like so many of this week in hockey history, Sean, were like on this, there was one of them that was like unbelievable. It was like the birthday of like some random NHLer. And I'm like, okay, we're not doing, you know, on this date, you know, I think it was like

Jamie Langenbruner's birthday. I'm like, I don't even know what to do with that. But we do have a couple of interesting ones. July 19th, 2011. Chris Osgood announces his retirement for the national hockey. They can shot. Chris Osgood is the classic Hall of Fame debate guy, right? Multiple Stanley Cups, including two as a starter in Detroit, 1998, 2008, a very good run in,

even with the Islanders, he was pretty good, like a very good goaltender. Who's not in the Hall of Fame? So does Chris Osgood, as we go back this week in hockey history, he announced his retirement It's been exactly 10 years since Osgood hung him up. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? No, he doesn't. And come yell at me, Detroit fans. I've heard it before.

Look, if I'm a Leafs fan, any goalie wins a Stanley Cup for the Maple Leafs, I'm going to be picketing to get them in the Hall of Fame too. So I understand. You have the loyalty of your guys. But, no, Chris Osgood was a very good goaltender on an excellent team. and he racked up a decent, well, more than a decent, a very impressive amount of wins, did get those couple of cups.

But on an individual level, he had that one season early where he was, I think, a Vezna finalist. But that was about it. Other than that, he was exactly what that Red Wings team needed. He was dependable and a guy that you could always trust back there. But if he's, was not a Hall of Famer.

You don't go out and get Dominic Hasick or whoever else, if you think you've already got a Hall of Famer locked in and Chris Osco. He was a real good goaltender. I take nothing away from him. But we can stop pretending that he should be in the Hall of Fame. It's a tough one though. Like, do you measure, like, how much do you measure Stanley? It's a team sport.

But the onus on goaltenders to have Stanley Cup rings is greater than on any other position. And Osco has got two of them. He's got two of them. But it shouldn't be because, I mean, look, and I do think, by the way, also that Osgood's case has weakened over the years. Because first of all, as far as the career wins, I think when he retired, he was well in the top 10 and he's dropped out of that now. But also, you know, this idea of the way, you got to win a ring if you're a goalie. In the 30-team era, honestly, are we going to keep Roberto Luongo out because he didn't win a Stanley Cup? We're going to keep Henrik Lunkwist out.

We shouldn't. Those guys should absolutely be in there. And by the same token, you win a ring as a goaltender, yeah, that's a big accomplishment. But does anybody think Chris Osgood was the reason those Detroit teams were winning Stanley Cups? No. Those were excellent, stacked teams, including some in the pre-cap era that were very expensive and good for them. they had the ability to do that and they went out and did it. Lots of teams wished that they had and Detroit actually did.

But, you know, if a goaltender wins a couple of cups by single-handedly dragging his team, you know, to a championship that otherwise they wouldn't have had, that's one thing. I'll have that conversation about, you know, if somebody is even in the, you know, the Tim Thomas mode where you go with it, that guy is the reason they won the cup. Chris Osgood wasn't the reason Detroit won the cup. He was real good, but he wasn't, you know, he doesn't rank very high on the list of guys who got them there. So I don't put that much stock in the fact that he won those rings

because there were just so many other key pieces on those Detroit teams. The one thing I'll say on Osgood, I guess to maybe further your point, is the kind of the apex of his career was when we were sending NHL players to the Olympic Games in 98 in Nagano, in 2002 in Salt Lake, 06, Torino, 2010, Vancouver. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Was he ever even in the running to be a backup on any of those teams? I don't think so. Not that I remember now.

I'm sure his name was mentioned, but no. Yeah, you're right. He wasn't, again, I feel like now, you know, it's turning into the pick on Chris Osgood. And again, I, there's probably 25 other teams out there that wish they had Chris Osgood for that stretch. There's something to be said for dependable, consistent goaltending, but no, he wasn't an elite guy. And we can get into what the Hall of Fame should be and what it should recognize. And certainly there are some guys in the Hall of Fame who I would not consider elite guys either, including some recent inductees.

So, you know, maybe that opens the door. But no, I'd like to see the Hall of Fame be for those guys that were the best in the league, best in the world at their position. And Chris Oscott, as good as he was, I don't think was ever in that conversation. All right. One last one here, July 23, 2015. So not that long ago, six years ago, July 23rd, 2015. I'll never forget, Sean, the headline in the Sunchain newspaper was lose your daddy.

Lou Lamarillo, lose your daddy. Lou Lamarillo, kind of shocking turn of events, takes over as the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And, of course, he leaves a couple of years later when Caldubus takes over and he joins the New York Islanders. It was a short window for Lou Lamarillo. And maybe legacy is not the right term to use for somebody who's only there a couple of years. But I can't think of, I guess maybe impact.

Like what was Lou Lamarillo's impact on the Toronto Maple Leafs? Yeah, I mean, it's tough to say because it, was, as he said, it ended up being a reasonably short tenure. And it ended up, it was also a situation where, you know, Kyle Lubas was there, Mark Hunter, we were never quite sure who was doing what, who was running the draft, who was who was involved in this or that. I, I, but he did, it was another piece of credibility for a franchise that really, really needed at the time. You know, Brendan Shanahan was, was trying to rebuild this thing that he had finally, torn apart after after having been there for a year or two is right around the same time that

they get Mike Babcock again that didn't work but the credibility of saying okay you know this these big names these heavy hitters with a ton of credibility want to come and work for this franchise I think was important as far as moves that were made you know it's it's it's tougher to say some of the contracts clearly didn't work out but some of the moves did I think he was the Frederick Anderson trade. That was one where that addressed that position for several years. There were some other moves that Patrick Marlowe signing did not work and ended up being very costly. But like any gym, we can go down a list and say this was good.

This wasn't always easy to do in hindsight. But I think the main thing is just that credibility of, okay, maybe the Toronto Maple Leafs aren't going to be a joke anymore. and maybe this is a team that we can actually, in a franchise, that we can start to take seriously again. And that was needed back then. All right. Listen, we'll leave it there. I look forward to people either drop it in the comments

or tweeting at us the beverages that there's certain have never been consumed out of this Stanley Cup. I'm sure that's going to be some fun stuff to look forward to. Listen, as always, this was a blast. Enjoy the expansion draft, the entry draft on Friday, and we'll do this again next week. Sounds good. All right.

And a reminder, everybody, we've got a full roster of athletic hockey shows Monday to Friday going on right now. If you didn't catch the Monday episode, some very poignant and important stuff, a great conversation amongst Pierre LeBron, Sarasivian,

Brock McGillis and Bain Pettingers. They talk about the National Predators prospect, Luke Procop, his historic announcement coming out as a gay athlete in hockey. So that's some great stuff. If you haven't listened to that, Monday edition of the podcast,

I implore you to download that and listen today. So thanks for listening to We'll get you again next week. Like I said, email us your questions, The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. You can leave us a voicemail to 845-4-4-5-8459. And if you're not a subscriber with us, you can join at theathletic.com slash hockey show

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