The Athletic Hockey Show - Timo Meier the NHL's most wanted with trade deadline 10 days out, Luke Schenn awaits a trade and Ryan O'Reilly fitting in with Maple Leafs

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

This week on the roundtable, Rob, Jesse and Russo welcome NHL player agent Ben Hankinson. Ben, who represents Luke Schenn, Brock Boeser and Tim Stützle to name a few, discusses Schenn's prospects with the deadline 10 days out and what role the agent plays, leading up to the deadline. The roundtable debates where the highly sought after Timo Meier, Patrick Kane and Jacob Chychrun might end up, the surprising news that teams have been calling about J.T. Miller. Plus the guys talk about Ryan O'Reilly's impact with the Maple Leafs and how teams tanking for Connor Bedard have all of a sudden gotten hot at the wrong time. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowTake advantage of MANSCAPED®’s best valued bundle and save 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code NHL23 at http://Manscaped.comTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trialGo to https://www.chime.com/nhlshow to sign up for a Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today! Thanks to Chime for supporting the show.Get a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at http://athleticgreens.com/NHL Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. The Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger in Vegas, Mike Russo in Minnesota. How are you, boys? We're 10 days away from the trade deadline.

And I don't know about you guys, but I'm kind of itching for this thing to get to actually get to March 3rd because we're talking so much about it. How are you? Well, I'm just hoping that we, we get to March 3rd and that the only one like not still on the board is like Lafferty or somebody. You know, like it just

doesn't it feel like everybody is now really trying to get a head start on March 3rd and, you know, man, it could be a boring, boring trade deadline if guys like Meyer and all those guys are off the board by then. Right. I was thinking the same thing. It does seem a little earlier, like things

are happening a little earlier than usual. I don't know. I'd say the last three to five years, maybe even a little more. We're seeing, you know, GMs, we talked about with Jim Nill last week. They don't want to wait till that last minute. The deal's not necessarily going to get sweeter. And as we saw with the big trade that we're going to discuss in just a few minutes this week,

sometimes it's just the logistics and the math that has to go into making a trade happen. You can't wait till 255 Eastern on March 3rd. So we're seeing GMs do what they do. We're going to go through a lot of that. And, you know, we talk a lot about GMs and scouts and everyone else. and how busy they are at this time of year. Agents are very busy, too. And we're going to speak to one of them in segment number two.

Ben Hankinson is going to come on. And I just want to dive into what his next 10 days are going to be like and what is really his job description because agents do a lot. They wear a lot of hats. So we're going to speak to Ben in the second half of the show. We'll talk about the guys still left on the list first, guys. And we'll get to the Ryan O'Reilly deal in a bit. But, Jesse, you mentioned Tim O'Meyer, some new developments over the last week since we last spoke, our own Pierre LeBron reporting.

Now that the Blues have a bunch of picks because of that deal, they've reached out to the sharks, some other teams in the mix, the jets, the devils, the hurricanes, and the Golden Knights. That's why I want to start with you. What have you been hearing there? Anything that would lead you to believe that Timel Meyer might be coming to your neck of the woods? Yeah, I think Meyer would be a great fit for Vegas in terms of just the player style. He does what the Golden Knights need the most. And that is getting to the front of the net, getting loose pucks, getting deflection screens. It's something that the Golden Knights have struggled with for years. Pete DeBore for years would say, we've got to get to the front of the net. He's pleading for his players to do it. Now you get a different coach, Bruce Cassidy. He's okay, maybe a system will change it. Bruce Cassidy saying the exact same things. Whenever the Golden Knights aren't winning, that's usually the issue. So I think Timom Meyer would solve that. The problem is the goldenites are already like $20 million over the salary cap. I mean, we're talking about like, I know these GMs do a lot of math wizardry, but I just don't see how it can possibly work. I mean, yes, they did just put Mark

Stone on LTIR. So that does open up nine and a half million, which means Timomeyer fits right now if they were to trade for him. But Mark Stone's coming back eventually. And Robin Lennar, who hasn't played this season and his salary hasn't counted, that $5 million is going to count. So you're going to go into the off season. And I don't think the Golden Knights would want to trade for Meyer as an RFA and then deal him like at the end of the season. I don't think, I don't see this as a as a playoff rental. So I just, unless there's significant salary going back the other way, I just don't see how it could possibly work. I mean, I probably shouldn't say that with this team because they find ways to like every time the Golden Knights make a move, my entire Twitter, every reply.

is, does the salary cap not apply to this team? Like, did I miss the part in the rules where so, so maybe they can make it work. But like I said, I think on the ice, great fit Tim O'Mire. I don't know if there's a team that Timelmeyer is a bad fit on. He's a great player. And he's one of the younger guys on the market. 26. I just don't. The math, the math just, I'm, I'm not good enough of math to figure that one out. Yeah. And to your point, like one, you know, this is Mike Greer's first, like, huge trade. And I don't know if he's going to trade him inside to division unless he's getting an absolute premium. And I don't know how they can give up a premium if they can't resign them. So that's why when they put Mark Stone on LTI the other day, the first name that popped in

my head was Patrick Kane. I don't know how you feel about that, Jesse, because I don't know if Kane helps you from the get to the net standpoint, but he certainly helps you from being a puck wizard and superstar. And he's showing that more and more in the last week that he is still the same Patrick Kane, but to me, it's more of a rental type deal. The cost is not prohibitive. Everything we're hearing is it, you know, as much as I'm sure Chicago is going to want a first round pick, you might even get them for a second or a second in a prospect because Patrick Kane, this is not going to be a bidding war with seven teams.

Patrick Kane, like Pat Brassan is probably going to go to Chicago with a list of like one. And then if that one doesn't work, then maybe it's going to be up to Patrick Kane to pick another team. It's not going to be like seven teams going after him. you know, as much as 17s might want them. Make a decision already. Stay or go, but make a damn decision. Doesn't this feel an awful lot like Claude Jureux last year with Pat Broussant, too?

And if you remember, you know, Claude Jureu, when he essentially gave Philadelphia a list of one, really two, because Colorado was sort of in there, but it was really one. It really made it very difficult. And Hamstrung, you know, Chuck Fletcher from maybe getting full market value on what a Claude Jure really worked. And I think it's going to be the same thing here is, is, you know, as the longer this goes, it becomes to a point where a lot of pressure is going to be on Chicago, because if Kane eventually says, yeah, I'll go, but it's got to be this team.

You know, now, you know, that team's got all the leverage in the world. So most of the players are still where they were when we last spoke. Chick-Grinn, of course, the longest player ever on a trade blog. Patrick Kane is there. But one name that popped up, Elliot Freeman reporting this. And I remember, you ever hear a report or see something and you go, well, I must have heard that wrong. Teams are calling Vancouver on J.T. Miller. And I remember thinking, this is the same J.T. Miller who just signed a massive extension in September that's going to kick in after this season.

Am I the only one who thinks maybe because it's Vancouver, we just can't be surprised anymore after what we've seen all year? but J.T. Miller is now people are kicking the tires on him. Russo, what do you think? Well, I mean, it's sort of what I said. And every time I say anything about Vancouver, it becomes wildfire there and becomes like the lead of blogs. And I get like 16 radio stations calling me. But it's like I said on a podcast a month ago, I bet you they have buyers remorse on that, on that contract. You know, I mean, look, I mean, J.T. Miller is a lightning bolt there.

And if you really want to, if you really want to build. your team around Elias Pedersen, which I bet they do, they might have jumped the gun on that contract. So it wouldn't shock me at all that maybe they're starting to throw little hints out there to other teams that like, hey, we would consider moving him. I just don't know it now at that contract if he's movable. I mean, we've seen stranger things happen. I mean, you know, I guess if you know, pulled a max patch ready and traded him for futures, I guess you can move him maybe if somebody could take that type of contract. But I just, it doesn't shock me. It doesn't shock me. And the other thing I'll say is, you know, Elliot Friedman doesn't throw stuff out there for shits and giggles.

I mean, he is, when he tweets or writes or reports something, you can pretty much say that it's 100% true. So I don't doubt for one second the validity of the report. Yeah, I don't know if this is teams initiating it to Vancouver saying, hey, maybe we think they might have buyers remorse on this. Let's see what they think. Or if this is Vancouver reaching out to teams, but I'll say this. if it's if it's Vancouver reaching out to teams, if I'm a GM and a team just signed a guy to this massive contract and then is asking me if I want to trade for him before that contract even

I don't even need to look at the player. Absolutely not. I want nothing to do with this player. I don't even need to know what his name is. I don't need to know his stats. If you just signed a player to a massive deal and then you're looking to trade him before the deal kicks in, something is wrong there.

I don't want that player. And according to breach, it is a matter of team. are calling, and he kind of said to, not necessarily something is going to happen, but that name keeps getting brought up. And like Russo said, if Friege is saying it, if Freach told me the blue line was orange, I'd believe him. But I just thought that was just a weird twist to this NHL trade deadline. One more thing before we get to O'Reilly. We talked about this last week, Chikrin and Gavroof sitting out with the new trade-related reasons thing and haven't played

in more than a week. Now we're seeing Luke Shen in Vancouver, Travis Sandim in Philadelphia, joining them in the press box, trade related reasons. It used to be, guys, if someone is suddenly in the press box, a trade is going to happen that night, even within the next, you know, couple hours. That's not the case here. Yeah. And I mean, maybe we'll talk to, we'll talk to Ben about this in the second half, but I don't know how much I like this, this trend. I get it. It's like you don't want to put the red glass of wine.

on a white carpet, but now we've got players sitting out for weeks on end? The length of it is ridiculous. Like you say, you don't, like, I absolutely hate it. I think it's ridiculous. I think also, if you're a team trading for one of these guys, do you want a guy that's been sitting out for three weeks? Not only from a, not only from a player's, like a performance standpoint, how good is this guy going to be?

He's going to have to get back. It's almost like he's back in training camp. But also, are we? making them more injury prone because they haven't played in three weeks and suddenly we're going to throw him into NHL action and the guys got to perform on this new team that just traded all these picks for him. I just don't like any of it. I totally understand why the GM would do it. They don't give a crap how he performs on the next team. They want to get their return for him, but I don't like it. And I don't know if there's a way you can like the NHL can like this off season, the GM meeting,

say no more of that. Like they can just make up an injury. It's like the NBA that while he's got something wrong with his ankle. He's not playing tonight when we all know that that's not actually why they're sitting out. I don't know if there's anything they can do, but I hate it. Yeah, I agree with you on the jam's meetings. I'll be down there March 12th to the 15th. And I bet you this will be a topic there. But as you just said, Jesse, I don't know how the league could legislate against this. I mean, you have the right to sit down any player that you're paying. And so technically you're allowed. So I don't know the NHLPA if they can get involved here and what you could, what could be done about this but this is this is long i mean it used to be immediately if you're pulled from the lineup you know

that trade's happening pretty imminently that's uh and we'll talk to ben hankinson about luke and whether you not he thinks that's a sign here that maybe luke is going to be traded any day or if this is another one of those protecting the assets until um you know march third um i we had jeff chikron on the podcast around the all-star game and uh you know jacob's dad and you know when when he was full first pulled through the lineup, a couple weeks ago now. I texted Jeff and Jeff actually flew to Nashville and hung out with his son for a couple days in Nashville just to kind of keep his mind off of it. The one thing that I think with Jacob Chikrin that might be a little different than say a Gavrakoff is that I do think that Jacob Chikrin, who has had injuries in the past, did suffer

a little tweak and was, you know, a little hampered. So even though they pulled them for trade related reasons, I think there was a scare there from both sides because Jacob Chikrin does want to get traded to like, hey, let's, let's pull back here and make sure he's okay, because I thought it was also weird that he wasn't practicing with the team. That seemed atypical in these type of situations. At least Gavrakha's been practicing with the blue jackets, traveling with them and things like that. Chicken was not practicing, then skating on his own. Now he's back at practice, which I think lends some validity to the belief that maybe he had a little tweak and that that's one reason why they pulled him from the lineup. But if they don't move them by March 3rd, that's going to be super awkward

if all of a sudden, you know, you pulled them out for trade-related reasons for a month and then you couldn't trade them. Yeah, it's just one of those things. I mean, I hate to sound like, you know, the angry mob, but some kid whose dad got him tickets, you know, to see his favorite player, you could afford to go to one game a year and he's sitting up because of trade-related reasons. And also, let's not forget, at this time of the year, it's always the UFAs that are getting moved.

If they're on the cusp of some sort of, you know, season milestone that would get them more money on that extension wherever they end up going or as a free agent, you know, and they finish with 49 goals. They finish with 99 points. I don't think the NHLPA is going to like that either. So we'll see if that's a trend. I'm with you guys. I'm not a fan of it.

One big name did get moved. Ryan O'Reilly is now a Toronto Maple Leaf. Two things I want to talk to you about. The first one is what we do every single time. There's a big trade. Talk to me about the fine points of this deal. on whether you like it or not. Basically, I'm not going to go through every single thing, but the blue stocked up on picks. They're going to retain half his salary. Minnesota's picking up

25% of it. And Ryan O'Reilly and Ola Chari are now Toronto Maple Leafs. Russo, I know you were dealing with this. I was reading your tweets. Tell us what you think. Yeah, I mean, obviously a great trade for Toronto, right? I mean, they get not only, not only ROR, but as you just mentioned, Achari and Elliot Friedman, I had him on my radio show here in Minnesota the other day on the fan. And he said that he thinks they tried to get Barbashev, too, in the deal. And, you know, the reason why they probably didn't go that route is then it would have probably started, you know, cost them maybe a player off their roster or probably a prospect

or things like that and just got too hefty for them. But, you know, Ryan O'Reilly goes there in his second game. He gets two goals on back-to-back shifts and a hat trick. Obviously, a hell of a trade for Toronto. And I think it's going to help them down the stretch here. We're seeing Tavares play the wing. You know, not only does St. Louis get a haul. Now it gives them maybe assets to go out and try to get a team of Meyer and do the rebuild very, very quickly.

And the other thing is I wouldn't put it past Toronto, St. Louis to try to get Ryan O'Reilly back in the offseason. They did offer him a contract extension. It obviously went nowhere. And so I do think that they would try to bring them back. And can you imagine they got all those assets and you're getting Ryan O'Reilly back? That'd be unbelievable. From Minnesota's perspective, they have a. ton of cap space right now, like a ton.

They can still technically add $12.9 million worth of players at the deadline. They've been accruing space all year long. They were incredibly healthy. They just made their first call up the other day for the first time since Christmas. So that's one way they've been able to accrue space. And so for them to sell, you know, a little bit of cap space and only $74,000 in salary for a fourth round pick, it made sense to them because it also moved Ryan O'Reilly right out of the conference where they were.

were starting to worry that teams of caps based, they didn't know, but teams of caps based like Winnipeg or L.A. or maybe Colorado or Dallas would try to trade for Ryan O'Reilly. So they tried to boot them right out of the conference. Yeah, I agree with everything Michael said. I think it's a great trade for Toronto. I think they did pay a lot for a few months of Ryan O'Reilly. But when you have to filter them, when one team, not only are you acquiring the player, you're having one team retain and then you're sending them to another thing. Like, that's expensive. That's the cost of business, the question is, how does he fit? And like, this is what we're asking ourselves before he scores a hat trick. Yeah. The fit looks pretty good. I mean, you don't want to overreact to one game,

but the fit looks pretty good. This is a player who has not looked himself all season. Like, the Golden Knights fans were all asking about Ryan O'Reilly. And my answer was always, like, I don't think so. Like, that's a player that is clearly on the downturn. And this season has been a massive step back for him in terms of not only his offensive production, but what he's been known for, how good he is as a 200-foot player. His defensive metrics are, have plummeted across the board. Now, you ask yourself, can a change of scenery get him back to playing like the player? Now, through a couple games in Toronto, it looks like it has.

We'll see, but if they get even 75% of what Ryan O'Reilly can be and has been as a 200-foot player, you got to think that that's a great fit for a Toronto team that's got all the offensive talent. They can score the puck as good as anyone in the league. they've got so much speed and skill to add a ready 200 foot player that can play in your middle six and has done it before. This is a team that hasn't done it since I was alive. Since any of us are alive, to get a player that has done it as a main piece in a Stanley Cup champion, I think he ticks all the boxes for Toronto, assuming you can get somewhat close to what a player he's been.

And they've left themselves a little cap space to maybe still go out and get a defenseman, which I think was the big reason for all those salary retention. And you guys both alluded to this. I love Shelton Keyes. I'm going to call it creativity. If you had told me that John Tomaris would be a second line winger because Ryan O'Reilly became a leaf, I'd say you're smoking something and pass it over. But it just, you know, I watch that game against Buffalo.

Now, obviously he had a little bit of motivation. playing against, you know, Buffalo as well. But putting him at center, Tavaros on the wing, and suddenly he gets his first three goals as a Toronto Maple Leap with an assist. I mean, you've got Marner with a goal, Marner with five assists, Tavares with a goal and three assists, 13 points from one line. As Jesse said, it's one really good game and one pretty good game,

but we'll have to wait and see. I obviously just slated him in as a third line center just to be that Ryan Riley type guy. Clearly, that's not it. Time will tell, but we'll see with these Leafs because Jesse just tried alluding to the fact that I had seen the Leafs win their last cup, but no, none of us were alive in 19. Actually, Russo, I don't know if we want to age you. I was not alive in 1967.

Trust me. I just wanted to need a little there. I feel like I was alive in 1967 some mornings when I got out of bed. When you got to talk to us, right? A few more things before we go to break, guys. We've got an agent coming on in the second half, but another agent made news and shocker, shocker, Alan Walsh. Not much going right in Calgary right now.

They're on the outside looking in as far as a wild card spot goes in the West. And after their loss to the Red Wings, he sends out this tweet. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Also, negativity sucks the joy out of the players. and then he even put CC Calgary Flame. So just to recap here, guys, you got rumors that Hubert O and Sutter don't get along. The team is losing and now his agent is basically calling the coach insane.

Your thoughts on this one. Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah, I don't know what it's like to cover a team. Alan Walsh sends out a tweet that's anti the coach. You know what? I'm sorry, sorry, I completely forgot about the flurry thing. Like, yes, Jesse, we must start with you here. Yeah, yeah, I just, I guess Alan Walsh's like Photoshop budget was, was he, he spent it all on the last one because there's no sword with Daryl Sutter's name on into the blade. Yeah, it's, I mean, Alan Walsh defends his clients like no other. There is no agent in, in the world of any sport that defends their clients like Alan Walsh does. The players love it. I don't know how, how well it's going to work out for the Calgary Flames. It obviously stirred the pot here in Vegas.

But while the player said I had no idea about it, I have a hard time believing an agent would send something that inflammatory out without at least running the idea by the player first. Yeah, it's 100. I mean, you know, I would love to get him, you know, when we talk to Ben Hankinson, let's get his thoughts on it because Ben, you know, first of all, Alan Walsh and Ben Hankinson are affiliated. They're the same agency, Octagon, you know, about a month, month and a half ago,

it was an innocuous tweet that Ben Hankinson sent about Luke Shen, but it absolutely caught fire in in Vancouver. And he had to come on Twitter a second time and basically say, no, I'm not trying to get him traded. But it kind of read that way. But that, you know, that's the way I feel about Alan is like I think there's no way he doesn't talk to Flurry at first about that. He's no way he doesn't talk to Hubertoe. You know, Alan's a lawyer. He's a very, very smart man. Everything's thought out. There's no way he just did that, no matter what Euberdo says. He takes the brunt of that from, you know, he's willing to basically put his neck on the line for his clients at all times. And before Twitter really existed, before Allen was on Twitter, I covered a couple of big Alan Walsh clients here in Minnesota. And, but what was really fun for me is that because Twitter really

existed, he just, you know, did stories with me basically going after Todd Richards about his treatment of Martin Havlad and eventually Peter Sikora as well. So that was actually fun because that was like old school where like the actual, you put out a big article that blows up with the agent going off on the team rather than just a tweet with a sword through the coach. Like they used to do in 1967. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. So, so. But trust me. I mean, you know, yeah, this one was, in terms of Alan Walsh tweets, this one was, you almost had to like, because there was no Photoshop, as Jesse said, you almost had to really interpret what he was saying, you know.

Alan Walsh, just throwing those bombs, those grenades in there to see what, what happens. One more thing before we go to break, guys. Another day, another Connor, McDavid, milestone, 800 points. And on the same goal, Drysidal picks up his career number 700. So with McDavid, fifth fastest to ever get to 800 behind Wayne, Mario, Bossie, and Stasney. And the fifth youngest, as far as calendar-wise, goes behind Wayne, Mario, Dale Howardchuck, Steve Eiserman. Is there anything this guy can't do besides maybe win a Stanley Cup? Jesse's are resident gambling expert, but that's what I want.

Like right now for the Hart Trophy, Jesse, do you have to, I bet you have to put like a thousand dollars down to win a dollar for Connor McDavid? I can look that up in like 10 seconds, but it's, he is a massive, massive favorite. There's no award out there right now that you can bet on that's anywhere close to how big of a favorite he is. But like Rob said, if there's something, is there anything you can't do? It's like, yes, win. That's it's, we're going to look back 10 years from now. And like, where are they right? And we're talking about how great dry saddle and McDavid are.

Where are they in the standings? They're like barely clinging to a wild card spot. Like, what is going on up there? You've got two of the best players of this entire generation and they can't, like, it's so frustrating. They are wasting this incredible talent, not just McDavid, but Drys Idol too. You want to see this team go on deep runs. I feel like for as great as all these stats are, I feel like we're going to look back on this years from now and say, like, how did they not win anything?

Yeah. I think this is also the time of the year you talk about the Hart Trophy, where guys like you, you writers, start making cases for other people because we're so used to seeing him just do this year in and year out. They call it voter fatigue. He's raised the bar so much that we're not as impressed. So we're almost looking for someone else to be considered a heart trophy candidate. But to give the heart trophy to anyone but Connor McDavid would be assinide in my opinion.

So here are the odds. Here are the odds right now on bed MGM. David Posternak is second. He's the second best odds. And he's plus 1600. So if you put 100, yeah, 16 to 1. If you put 100 bucks on it, you'd win 16. hundred dollars. Conor McDavid, if you were to put a hundred bucks on him, you would win

$10. $100 bet wins $10 on Connor McDavid to win the heart. So get those bets in. So I was, I was close. If you put a thousand down, you win $100. So I mean, it's exactly right. It's crazy. I mean, the guy is unreal. But to Rob's point, I'm going to really do a lot of digging for that Hart Trey. I'm Tage Thompson if they get close or Dull-Larkin if they get close. He has single-handedly willed his team into a playoff spot.

So I think he overtakes McDavid. That's, we hear that all, every year at this time of the year when you got a player. You know what I think actually is going to be the most fascinating award. And we'll obviously talk about awards a lot on the show in the weeks to come, but is Jack Adams. I mean,

right now, like, could you imagine if Detroit makes the playoffs? You know, like, you know, like, I,

it's just, I don't know, there's just, there's just so many options for a lot of these awards. Norris is another fascinating one, right? Carlson, Josh Norrissey, you know, Deline. I mean, there's some really good defensemen out there this year. See what I mean? Writers jumping the gun on awards. After the break, we'll speak to NHL player agent Ben Hankinson about everything trade deadline and just the life of an agent. So don't go anywhere. All right, guys, as we mentioned, I don't know,

200 times in the first segment. We're 10 days away from the NHL trade deadline. And, you know, all we kind of see a lot of times is the final deal. But there's so many working parts and moving parts and very, very busy people. We know GMs are busy. Their staff busy. Scouts are busy. But I want to know how busy a player agent is because they are in there as well. And you know what? No better time than now to find out. Ben Hankinson, player agent joining us on the athletic hockey show. Thanks for doing this, Ben. How are you? I'm doing fabulous. Thanks for having me, you guys. So I assume free agencies, probably your busiest time of the year, the draft has got to be up there as well. But these two weeks now leading up to trade deadline day, just how much time of the 24 hours in the day are you spending on your phone?

That's a great question. I'd say definitely most of the time. I don't know what I've done with my days up until this point. it's crazy because it's it seems like it's dedicated completely to the few guys that are on the board that could potentially get traded and at the end of the day I it's tough to track like what I've accomplished because it's like I don't feel like it's much but at the end of the day you know I've talked to maybe six or seven eight you know GMs during that day too and and that's actually the hidden gem in all this I forget that my business. You know that my business is about, you know, having relationships and communicating with hockey people. And obviously my clients, but it's a great time of year to remind me that talking to these

GMs is pretty, I hate to say it, but a fun part of my job, too. So, Ben, let's sort of not bury the lead. You know, yesterday we get word that Luke Shen's been sent back to Vancouver and for trade-related reasons. When did you get word from Patrick Alvian or Jim Rutherford or Luke? that this was going to happen? And where's the latest on this in terms of potential imminency that he might be traded? So yesterday, actually it was a night before Luke Shen traveled with the team from Vancouver,

long flight to Nashville. And he had his ex-teammate, who's a client of mine, Ryan McDonough, marinating on his traggar grill, some tomahawk steaks. So those guys, I actually started a group text with them because they're all. teammates and they were cooking a steak and they were eating. And so he goes there, has dinner. And the next morning, I find out that he's not in the top two pairings or not on the board for the, for the game that night. So I call Patrick, the GM, and he says, no, we're protecting them because we have this or that or the other thing going on. And you got

to remember, he's probably not telling me everything, but I'm helping him behind the scene. So I want to know what's going on too, because I'm out there, like, a little shepherd in the field, you know, whether it's, you know, herding, heard and hurting it up for him at the same time, sort of working together. Obviously, I don't want to overplay my part in this, but so I know what's going on as well. But then he wanted to be safe. You know, he wanted to be, as you can see, with some other guys, Chickrennan and some other guys around the league. And it's no fun. Luke wants to play. So he wants to play last night. He wants to play tomorrow. And they told him he's not going to play and his wife is extremely pregnant, due any day with their third. So they flew him home.

So he flew to Nashville, had a steak dinner with Ryan McDonough, and then flew home. And now the team is in St. Louis. So I just found out yesterday morning, Luke didn't really even know when I called him. I talked to Patrick, and he went and talked to Tocket. And, you know, it's just a decision that once everyone finds out that Luke isn't playing, then word spreads fast. And then my phone blows up, because everyone thinks there's a deal already in place, which there isn't. But it's getting closer, obviously, with the, you know, like you guys said with the trade deadline, you know, nine, ten days away, you know, it's part of the precaution that they make. So it's not done yet, but hopefully inching that way.

And you kind of answered it a little bit, but I'd like to go a little deeper into it. It's we talked about it earlier. It's such a trend that players are getting held out. This is nothing new, but longer than usual. There are players that haven't played in weeks. And you mentioned Luke wants to play. Do you think that there's a concern amongst players that anyone who can possibly be traded is now not playing for a considerable amount of time going into the deadline?

Yeah, a little bit. I don't like it, to me honest, either. I understand it and I respect it. And it takes one injury and it could blow a trade, obviously. But yeah, I mean, he understands it too. And he is home. You know, if he's not going to play, then what's the point of being? being on the road and, and, you know, he's practicing soon as there's teammates, I guess,

but not really because they're not practicing. They get it in after a game last night. So he's just actually probably doing more, like Luke said, I'll skate back in Vancouver and the teams will have a morning skate tomorrow in St. Louis, and that's, you know, not much of a skate. But it's no fun for him. Like he, yes, he does understand it, but, you know, he wants to play games. He wants to be ready because if and when he gets traded, you know, it's better if he's playing and his timing is down and, you know, he plays a physical game. He doesn't play 25 minutes a night. He'll play, you know, 18 minutes a night or whatever it is, but he's always hitting and he's got to have his timing and his feel and his decision-making

down too. So, you know, he wants to, he's creeping up to a thousand games and don't think players don't look at that either. Like, that's a huge milestone for a player to get a thousand games. He's in the low nine-hundreds right now. He leads the NHL and hits. So I know he's tracking that as well. He doesn't say it, so it's not like he's selfish about his own stats or anything, but these guys, you know, they have little goals to accomplish big goals. They do, and that big goal is, you know, big extension a lot of times with the UFA and sitting out, it's not helping their stats in any way, shape, or form. But Ben, I want to ask you about no movement clauses and modify no movement clauses because especially at this time

year, we hear it all the time, you know, Patrick Kane's a perfect example of, you know, well, he's got to provide us with the teams. Walk us through that process. When a GM says, he calls you and says, Ben, you know, we want to move this player, but he's got no movement clause, walk me through the process of not only talking to the GM, but how you and the player kind of break down, say it's five teams, 10 teams, whatever it may be. Is that a tough process? Yes, it is because it, you can start bridging the business versus human element of it. And I talked to Michael about this with Ryan McDonough, and that's a perfect segue into kind of the

understanding the 101 of hockey no move or no trades because Ryan McDonough had a no trade. And there's also a no move. And then there's a modified no trade. But a no move means you can't go on waivers either. And you think, well, what does hat have to do with it? And it really shouldn't because you're talking about an NHL player that obviously someone wants. So they would never go on waivers, right? But Ryan McDonough last year in the summer after they made a run and won a couple cups,

the Tampa Bay GM, Julian Breezebaugh came to Ryan and us and said, you know, we got to move him. But he had a full, you know, no trade, not a no move, so no trade. And so we had a little bit of control working with him where he could go. But at the end of it, he wanted to make a fast move. And he wanted to kind of free up money to sign a couple of their players. so he wanted to do it within a day or two. And all of a sudden, he threatened to put him on waivers, meaning someone else could pick him up for nothing.

And that's basically what happened because he was making, he's older now and he's got a few more years on his contract. And he's still a huge part of any team, the Nashville Predators now. But there's a couple of years when he gets into his mid-30s that teams aren't as excited about his contract probably. And I still think he'll bring value, but that's a whole other point.

So the no trade turned into a threat, well, we'll put them on waivers and then potentially for Ryan, that's not that exciting because now you go to the worst team in the league. And, you know, probably a veteran that's won cups doesn't want to play for the worst team in the league. So he all of a sudden turned that into a little bit of leverage for him where we ended up working out a trade before he went on waivers. So there's no trade, no moves. Usually, you know, a lot of times it's a modified no trade where there's.

There's maybe eight teams, maybe four teams, maybe 16 teams. And I probably have seven or eight guys that have those modified no trades. And you send a list to the GM on a certain date. And usually it's around free agency because there's also a lot of trades. You said the busy times are trade deadline, free agency, the draft. And at the draft, you know, there's generally trades because there's picks involved. And that's when everyone's together. And then right before free agency is a great time for trade.

So that's when the no trade lists are due. So you turn it in and you go through, you know, the teams. And, you know, depending on sometimes you put it together blocking certain teams too. Like a lot of times, North American players, and I hate to say this, we'll put Canadian cities on there. And it's usually the same teams. But then always the lowly like Arizona coyotes. And a lot of times, you know, those teams aren't on the no trade because you know,

like they're not a target for like a cane. You know, he's not getting traded to Arizona because, you know, he's a rental and they're obviously out of the playoffs. So that's a long winded answer, but, you know, they are protection for the players, but at the same time, you know, if the team goes to the fans and it gets out that they want to trade them, the team rejects the trade, that puts a lot of pressure on that, that player as well because they don't want to disappoint, you know, so to say the fan base and And they feel like, okay, you're blocking our organization from bettering ourselves, too.

So it's a tricky situation. And, you know, I mean, one player I've learned since, one team that I've learned since that you, that you basically were working behind the scenes with to try to get Ryan McDonatoo was Minnesota and Bill Guerin couldn't make it work, Ben. And that brings me to another one of your clients. I mean, I think, you know, we've all seen all the rumors about Brock Besser and the potential that he could be traded. He has two years left at 665.

I think that Besser, you know, as well as I do, what kind of relationship I have with him. He's a special kid coming from a special family. And I think he would love to come back here with Minnesota. I think the wild love him. But right now, their cap situation kind of inhibits that ability. Where do you see that going? And do you think there's ever that point that we could see Brock Besser in a Minnesota wild uniform? Yeah, that's a great analogy.

And it is the truth with his contract. They have cap room this year. It's not the problem. The problem is the following two years. And Brock has two more years on his contract. So they're trying to move some things around potentially. And more importantly, there maybe, you know, are they on the inside? They obviously had a big win last night.

And there's 82 games. You don't think one win would be so important. But where are they sitting? Is Billy want to add? Or could he, you know, be potentially a seller? But where does Brock Besser fit in? I think he fits in perfectly, you know, on a top six scoring wing, probably playing with Bolby.

But, you know, there's other pieces in play. There's rumors that, you know, Greenway could be going. Obviously, the whole, the Dumba rumors. And Addison's been scratched a little bit too. So there's a ton of play with Billy. And even going back to Ryan McDonough, he's always trying to figure out, you know, how to fit guys in. You know, Ryan McDonough didn't fit. Billy tried.

He tried and he would have had to move probably a defenseman. He definitely didn't want to move to make room for Ryan McDonough. And Ryan McDonough is a big shot walking, plays heavy. defenseman that plays a lot of minutes that I think would have worked perfectly with the Minnesota wild. If he was right-handed, it'd even be more perfect. So he's always looking at every scenario to get, you know, whether it's a center or a winger or Brockfest or specifically, he's 25 years old. He can score. He's not scoring at a great rate this year. He's putting up a lot of points. But I think he'd be a great fit. There have to be a lot of salary retained by Vancouver.

And I don't think that's something they're too excited. to do because they just signed Brock Besser and Billy would have to have them eat, you know, a big, big chunk of that 6.65 to fit him in next year and the year after because that's when the cap gets really tight for the wild. And you mentioned you're talking to a lot of people, you're talking to GMs, you're talking to your clients. I'm curious, I was talking to a few of the Golden Knights players here in Vegas about the trade deadline and all the stuff they hear and all the rumors about what trades. I'm curious how different of a community. How communication style do you have with certain players? Like, are there certain guys who want to hear everything? Hey, anything you hear about where I could be moved. I want to know. And then there are some guys that are like, I want nothing to do with it. Tell me when the trade is done.

Right. Yeah. That's a great example. Dustin Bufflin was that way with his contract. He just said, tell me when it's done. The years, the dollars, everything. You just tell me. And yeah, we have Spook Shen, whose wife is pregnant. That's the whole different dynamic. What happens when he's traded and his wife? can't travel technically. You know, does he get traded to Calgary? Does he get traded to Boston or wherever in between? And that's a lot of logistics. Does he move away from home and leave the kids? But also the question is that they want to know these players, okay, you know, if Luke

Schen gets traded, is there a contract, you know, added to that? Is he a rental or does he get traded in signs? We've got to be ready. And communication has to be strong with Luke, like what his value could be. he resigns or does he move everything and potentially resign with Vancouver and come back. So there's moving trucks involved and there's a lot of logistics with, you know, potentially private flights for a wife that's pregnant that she probably has a few days still to travel. And we tried to push that to happen sooner.

And I think Vancouver wanted to make a decision with Luke sooner. So we were communicating a lot on that, but they just couldn't pull it, pull it together because the market, you know, is what dictates it. And, you know, they're running a business too. Yeah, I think Luke I talked to a few times a day. And Brock, I was texting with him after the game last night. And I was telling him certain things that he should do because certain teams are watching and need him in a certain role.

So it's kind of funny in that regard, you know, kind of poking him a little bit with make sure you do this or do that because this guy's watching. That's what guys, that's what I love about Hank, by the way. I mean, like, he gives tough love to his clients. I mean, man, there were a couple times where you had it out with guys like Bukestead here in Minnesota. Like, you need to play this way if you want to prolong your career. Yeah, that's the fun and the hard part is I played. So I knew what I never did to get to this level.

I can tell these guys, hey, don't watch me. Just listen to me. I'll tell you. But, yeah, like Brock will say, I feel like I'm playing the best hockey. And Brock Besser, and considering the situation they're in, who he's playing with, the culture in Vancouver isn't great right now. They're losing players left and right now. Luke's out of the lineup.

So, you know, but it's results. Like, Brock, you're paid to score. You got to go score. And he's like, but I'm playing great. And you can't control the puck going to the net. But you sure can control, you know, shooting the puck and digging. And what's your B game? If you're not scoring, you know, you better be doing something else.

And that's where, you know, he's got to, you know, battle and compete and be a, be a, you know, on a, on a playoff team, your role's going to be a little different. If you win a cup, you're not going to be, you know, the first guy in the half ball, maybe on the power play. You're going to be, you know, maybe sitting on the bench even, you know, and he's a power play guy. And, and yeah, there's a lot of layers to it. But, Michael, to your point, yes, I, it's like parenting, right? Sometimes you got to get him a little kick in the ass. And other times you got to hug him and tell him, even though they, They know you're lying to them.

How good they're playing. Then how much is the role, publicly at least, of the agent changed? Because, you know, I remember growing up, I couldn't tell you every player's agent. And I know I'm in the media now, so it's a little different. But, you know, the first segment we talked about, Alan Walsh, sends out a tweet about Calgary. Everything goes nuts. You're talking to us on the show now. The role of the agent seems to be so much more public now.

And I know it's your job to pump the tires or your players. but is there a line that you're careful not to cross where it looks as though you're the celebrity and the player isn't? Or is it just a matter of this is now part of my job? I've got to put my player on a pedestal. Yeah. And it kind of depends on your client and what his personality is. I think a lot of times like Alan Walsh sends out that tweet and it's approved, you know, or there's been a lot of conversations coming from the player.

and I'm not saying, you know, with Alan that, you know, the player always knows, but I think, I think it's, it's something that's done together to figure out, you know, how to better this situation. And unfortunately, sometimes it is to blow it up. But, you know, I'm, I'm, everyone has a different personality and style. And I'm, I'm more kind of behind the scenes in that regard. I hate, and some people probably enjoy it, but I, I hate, you know, kind of using social media to promote myself or even not so much the players. Like obviously, they want to promote the players, but, you know, that's not their DNA always these hockey players. Like they're not, you know, they don't have huge social media accounts like other sports. So they're not promoting their own highlights and

everything else. But yeah, it is my job to get a message out there. And sometimes it's, you know, it is. Because I do tweet a lot about my guys. And it's, it's, it's good things. It's normally not much deeper than, you know, scoring a goal and their stats and, and in a few other things. But, yeah, most of the guys, you know, I think they, they obviously, they know someone's got to be pushing them behind their back. They don't, they don't always, they don't always love it. My guys wouldn't like it. If I tweeted something like that against, if I tweeted something on the team or the coach, like I generally really haven't done. And I've done it once.

I did it with Jake Gardner in Toronto in the craziest market. And it was front page on the next day. There was a picture of Jake Gardner on chains on the cross. and it was headlines free Jake Gardner because I had sent a tweet free Jake Gardner. And it actually, I don't want to say it worked, but it did. He got called up and he played, but it was a, it was, it blew up huge. And, you know, I think that was the play at the time, but I wouldn't do that again. Ben, you know, you mentioned a big buff before.

Not many people quit the NHL and leave six million or so on the table, but this guy did. can you kind of walk everybody through how how that all came about him essentially leaving the sport? And were you shocked last week when you saw him on the ice at Andrew Ladd's charity thing? Yes, I was shocked when I saw him on the ice because, you know, everyone's changes over time as they get older. He'll look back and have like fond memories of his career. And now I see already he's on the ice much sooner than I thought he'd be. He told me he'd really never skate again unless it's with his kids. But yeah, he left, you said six.

I say 14 million. And six. And that was the great decision because his ankle was bothering him from playing 100 games the year before. And Buff is a unique hockey player. And the modern day athletes now go, you know, they rarely go a couple days without skating. Buff ended the season in Winnipeg the year before. And with an ankle that was bothering him. and it was a terrible ending, I think, to the blues.

And then he left. And he puts his skates, like, who knows where he puts them? But they disappear for months. And then his ankle was bothering him at the time. And I thought that it was going to be fine. He thought it was going to be fine at the start of the season. So he didn't really pay much attention. He came back in the Beauty League and started skating.

And his ankle was bothering him. And so we dealt with the jets on it. And they said, well, how was it all summer? And Buff said, well, it was fine. Because all he did was basically fish on it and trained, but he wasn't skating. So he goes into training camp and tells me he can't play. And that was the beginning of what three seasons ago, I believe. And he's scheduled to make $8 million. And I said, okay, let's take care of this. Let's go see the doctor. Let's go talk to the jets. He goes, no,

I'm done. I don't want to play anymore. I can't play with my ankle like this. And I said, well, Buff, we can fix your ankle. And he just said, no, he met with the GM and said, I'm done. I can't play with my ankle like this. And then so it gets tricky where, okay, okay, you know, if this is a hockey injury, which it certainly is, you know, let's get this fixed. And, you know, in my, you know, interest, too, is you'll get paid. Like this, you got hurt. Like, you're still due, and you can come back from this and make your $8 million this year, $6 million and it was eight the last year, whatever it was.

But it was a $6 and $8 a season. I had two of them. And so anyway, Buff had the surgery rehab and then said, I don't want to play. And he just quit. So he could have fought that and ended up getting paid. paid, but Buff is a unique character. And it's not, you know, it's easy to say it's not about the money, but he was about his lifestyle and just saying, I've had enough. I wasn't having fun anymore. I wasn't at the rink skating with the guys. And it was, it was a crazy decision

that that Buff, you know, slept well at night and still does, you know, walking away from that. He's just a simple guy. He's a hunter, man, fisherman and hunts and, you know, spends time, you know, with, with people in small groups and, and he just disappears. And he's, and he's, been nothing but happy and it's crazy to see them on the ice. I'd love to see them, you know, in front of fans, of course. Buffs about as unique as they come, but I feel like there are a lot of unique guys. And I'm curious how, how like communitory is the, is, are there GMs reaching out to you to see how a player might fit on their team if they're thinking about trading for them?

Like, how many calls are you getting of GMs just asking what we know what this guy's like on the ice? What kind of player is this? Or is that something that they're, they're talking about the other GMs with? Yeah, and that's a great question. And it's actually interesting because you technically, you can't talk to a team about another player. It's campering. And I do have permission from specifically if we're talking about Besser or Shen. I don't have permission.

I don't want to say because there's all kinds of reports out there, whether I have permission to talk to teams or not. But I did admit that I'm trying to help Vancouver and help my client to find a good spot. But yes, and that's where I played, and I think it's an advantage to understanding, you know, where a guy fits in a room where he fits on the ice and the lineup, you know, when it's going well, when it's not going well. I mentioned what's his B game. I mean, does he kill penalties? Like Nick Bukstad's another guy that you mentioned, Michael, and he could get traded.

He was with the wild, and he was close to resigning with the wild, but his role was very diminished. and he didn't play as much as Nick, you know, felt he could and he knew there was more there. And he went to Arizona to get an opportunity to play a lot more. And it's been a great season. He has 13 goals. He, I think he, Devoine, I know he leads their team in penalty killing. And I think he's probably fourth and ice time among forwards. And, you know, he plays in overtime.

He plays in all situations, you know, not necessarily a power play guy. But now he could get traded. He's a 6-6 plus centerman. That's right shot and he can skate and he can play, you know, wing as well. So, so I do, you know, find out from teams what they're looking for, what they need. You know, there's, and Luke Shan hasn't got traded because there's a lot of other top D out there that will probably get moved, you know, before Luke, you know, gets moved. So there might be six guys in looking at, say, Chikrin, and only one team is going to get them. And the other five, you know, we'll go for maybe the next guy.

there's a big D in Columbus, the Russian defenseman that's a top guy out there too. And there's probably two or three other guys that teams look at. And then if they don't get what they want, they look at Luke Shen. But they also kick tires with me too and maybe act like they're more interested they are to have a plan B and C and D in order. So I'm always talking to teams about, you know, where they are, where they fit in. And then teams like the Wild, Washington, other teams that you think are going to be in it trying to acquire players to get them over the hump. you know, might lose a couple games, Calgary, and then, you know, maybe they're out. And there's now of a sudden, you know, instead of trading four players, they're trading players.

So, you know, it's always changing, but I always try to have my finger on the pulse to, you know, to talk to teams and see where it could be a good fit. Most importantly for my guys going forward, you know, this year and down the road. Hank, you know, I am around you a lot, you know, at Octagon Camps and to Beauty League. So I kind of always see the behind the scenes of what it's like. to be an agent. And, you know, when you go to sites like Puckpedia and things like that, we know you have almost, what, 300, 400 million of long-term contracts out there in the NHL, but we never see the sort of unglomerous side of being an agent, the amount of, you know, clients that you

have that you invest a ton of time and money in, fly over to Europe, all that type of stuff. It is an expensive, you know, we all always say, oh, you got a, you know, $100,000 commission there or $150 there, but there's a lot of money that agents spend to do it. Can you kind of address about just what that is like and what it takes to recruit guys, the amount of money that you invest into certain players that maybe never see the light of day. And it's a sports world that's kind of like your world too, you guys. You're not 9 to 5. Like at night, you can't just turn off your phone and start watching Netflix.

That's when things happen. That's when, you know, players get bought out or there's UFA signings or whatever it is. Same as your jobs. You're always, you know, one buzz on your phone away from something. something big happening. And then you have to write a story on it and be an expert, breaking it down. So it's the same with me. It's a nine to five job during the day, but then I have a night shift too where I'm grinding. And it's not just covering NHL players. Like to get to the NHL, you have to play, you know, mites, you know,

eyes are watching them in Phantoms, believe it or not. And I haven't because I've been lucky. I've been picking up, you know, clients that are in the NHL when they're a little older. So I haven't had to recruit as hard. But, but there's like two. 2008s now, which are what? They're like, you know, 14 years old, turning 15 this year. I have to know the best 2008s, you know, in Minnesota and around the world. And, and those guys have advisors that help navigate them through these paths. So now you're talking navigating through what? Do they play high school? Do they go play junior? You know, do they go up to Canada and play junior? Do they go to prep schools? So I'm dealing with coaches now and, you know, really scouts, you know, college scouts, because scouts,

colleges are recruiting these players. And, you know, so I have to deal with everyone from the 2007s to the, you know, 1980-born players. So you have to grind and know, you know, what is happening with each one of the guys you're tracking, which might be 100 kids. You know, even if I have, say, 25 NHL guys, you know, there's another, say, 75 players than I'm tracking daily. And, you know, ask my wife how glamorous it is, glamorous it is, because it's nonstop

going from high school games to junior games to obviously the best is the pros with the HL and the NHL. And then I was over in Sweden, you know, watching players over there. So it's always trying to find, I'm only as good of an agent as my players are, obviously. I got to grind and get them, you know, the market value and better contracts. But the better players you find, it's like coaching, the easier it is to win games or the easier it is to get to get them contracts. But, you know, there's a lot.

It used to be when I play. agents negotiated contracts. Now you have to be a salesman before you're an agent. So I'm 100% on commission. So my paychecks depend on what my players make. And if you're talking to a 2007, or eight, you know, they don't get paid until they're, you know, probably they don't make money where we would actually make money on until they're 25 years old. And, you know, that's a, that's a long time. So in between there, you're doing everything from being a strength coach to a nutritionist to a counselor, psychologist, and then eventually, you know, the guy's getting some trouble maybe where you're facilitating between, you know, a lawyer, a state planner, a tax planner.

You're dealing with the wife now. So, you know, you're in the first you're dealing with the parents, then the player, then the wife, and then, you know, hopefully representing the kids, which happens. I bet you I have, you know, I don't know, five or six or seven of my client's kids that I represent now. So you're kind of doing a little bit of everything along the way. But it's a fun job. I absolutely love it. And I wouldn't do anything else. And it does not feel like work to me.

But it is, it's constant, you know, a lot of handholding and a lot of, you know, free advice along the way. By the way, is that Patrick Alvin that keeps calling you or no? Trying to get a scoop. All Russo is always trying to get a scoop. Ben, given the fact that you have, like, like 25 jobs that you just listed, I'm even more grateful that you could carve some time out to come talk to us.

Thanks so much for doing this. Enjoy the next 10 days because as you said, it's probably going to be nuts and keep in touch. We'll talk to you later on in the season. Thanks, you guys. It's been a lot of fun. Appreciate it. Yep.

See you, Hank. Player agent, strength coach, nutrition list, all the things he listed on his resume. Rapid fire coming up after the break. All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours. This is where Russo ignores the two words rapid fire and talks and talks, but it's fun anyway. Rapid fire. Topic number one, Kail Makar entered concussion protocol for the second time in as many weeks.

He suffered his first concussion and then was off for 11 days, comes back and finish the game. Now, we've seen this before, but here's the part that scares me a bit. The Aves said his symptoms were, quote, delayed onset, which means he wasn't, you know, pulled out by the spotter. He went through concussion protocol and he was sent back out. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a concussion expert. But that's scary to me that one of the best players in the world was sent out.

And then it was after the game where they said, oh, wait a minute. We got to, we got to yank him and put him on concussion protocol again. Is that scary to anybody else, Russo? Yeah, I mean, but that is often how concussions work. Right. I mean, you know, that and that is the, I don't want to say loophole in the whole. whole protocol thing is that is that yeah I mean you could put put in a 10 minute quiet room and feel perfectly fine but the next morning you wake up and you feel like crap and that is that you know

I covered pier mark brochure here in Minnesota for a long long time whose career unfortunately eventually ended because of concussions but that was always the case with him is that you know and eventually the wild really started to err on the side of caution because they knew that even if he was feeling well after a hit that who knew how he was going to feel a day or two later Yeah, the whole thing's terrifying. I mean, we just, like you mentioned, you're not a doctor, but like I feel like even the doctors were just learnings about concussion. Like, we are so in the infancy of understanding brain injuries and stuff. It's just like I don't, I feel bad for the doctors that have to figure out what to do, when to let him back.

I haven't covered him for very long, but Nolan Patrick here in Vegas, the last update we got was in the summer. And Kelly McCrimman said at this point right now, we're just focused. on him doing everyday life stuff. Like hockey's not even on our minds. Like we don't like. And it seems like the more like every concussion you get, the next one is more likely than than the last. And it's just you see a player as good as Kail McCar, you see anyone get two back-to-back

concussions that close together. It's absolutely terrifying. So hopefully, like I said, it's tough to know when you can let that player back in the lineup safely, but hopefully they take their time with it. really terrifying stuff. It's just such a complete mystery. That's the problem. You know,

when we hear a player has a high ankle sprain, we hear a torn ACL, we hear a separated shoulder, you look at the books, you go, okay, it's four to six weeks, it's this, it's that.

We just don't know with concussions. And like I said, like, it's just scary to me. And I'm not trying to imply that anything was done wrong. I'm just saying it's scary that a player could be sent back out

and then like Russo said, you wake up the next day and you feel like garbage. One more here, guys, I want to bring this up. You know, we've been talking a lot

about Connor Bardard and, you know, whether teams are tanking or not. The teams that are the bottom five teams in the NHL, have they seen Connor Bedard? Because all they've done over the last couple weeks is win. So you've got Arizona, San Jose, Chicago, Columbus, Anaheim. Their last 10 games combined, 53 out of 100 points. Listen to the teams they beat over the last 10 games. Tampa Bay twice, Toronto twice, Vegas twice, Colorado, Winnipeg, Dallas, and. Edmonton, Seattle, Minnesota, and Washington.

What the hell are these teams doing? Just go out there. And even if you're winning, start falling down a little more often. Jesse? Yeah, and Chicago just beat the Golden Knights last night. To end their five-game win streak, the Golden Knights took out Tampa Bay the game before, and then they go to Chicago and lose. It's, yeah, I mean, the GMs can tank all they want.

They can trade all the good players. They're competitive for a reason, right? Yeah. Arizona was like, get rid of every goalie we have. have. And then they end up with two awesome goalies somehow. Vemelka and Ingram are both playing out of their minds. No matter what you do, the players

want to win on the ice. You cannot stop them. And these underdog players that are maybe not as Harold that are stepping up, they want to win. Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent. That's what it comes down to. And, you know, we've seen this throughout the years, too. I mean, there's no

scarier time to play a team that's out of the playoffs than after the trade deadline because it's like, you know, all the guys that are there know they're there the rest of the year, and they're playing almost, you know, worry-free. And that's the time when those teams usually beat you. Obviously, we're before the trade deadline now. But, man, when you have a team that doesn't have anything to play for, it's kind of a scary proposition when kids are just playing for jobs and things like that.

And look, you know, tanks are hard to orchestrate. I remember Chicago, correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember 2005, 6,000. season. They were trying to get either, or maybe it was what was the Malkin draft. That was, it was it, was it, uh, the Ovechkin Malkin and Cam Barker where they brought up like a goalie for the last couple games and he wound up getting a couple points. Next thing they know, they wound up getting the third pick and got how to take Cam Blacher. Yeah, so 2004. So 2004. So it would have been that 0304 season. I'm pretty sure the last couple of games, they played a goalie

essentially orchestrated to lose and wound up getting a point or two and changed the math and next thing you know, they wound up with Cam Barker instead of Malkin. So, you know, sometimes you're better off just letting fate take care of itself.

Especially against elite teams. Just lose. What do we work on this week, boys? Russel, Starreau. I am supposed to head to Columbus here in a little bit but we have a blizzard. So right now I keep on looking at my phone and so far my flight is

on. So I'll be doing that. Really a bunch of cool stories. There is a chance that I see Jesse this upcoming week. I'm working on a story. And again, I don't want to give up too much away, but I'm working on a story that might bring me to Vegas and Arizona. So that's coming up. And then a bunch of different trade deadline stories that I'll be doing from a national component. And then I'm heading to the GM's meetings as well in the week leading up to the GM's meetings of a story on when I sat in on the NHL Situation Room. And Jesse and I are working on a really cool story about goalies and net moorings and things like that that also is targeted to run in that week leading up to the GM's meetings. Yeah, excited to work on the goalie story with Michael and plenty of other goalie

stories, as you might have guessed. Yeah, I got a bunch of stuff in the works right now. I went down to Florida with Michael and Lazarus during the All-Star weekend and I basically just got to chat with goalies for three days about their equipment, their gear. And in the weeks since then, I've been talking to a bunch that have come through Vegas. I've talking to them on the phone. I've just been talking really nerdy gear stuff with goalies. And I love how much how nerdy they get about it. So yeah, I've got a fun story that I'm almost done with about how much goalies love their pads and the look of them, the little details, the little changes that they all make. Really fun story. out of All-Star weekend and the weeks after that I'm excited to eventually get out there.

As soon as people relax from the shock of Jesse doing goalie stories, they're going to go and read that. Thanks, boys. We'll see you next week. Before we go, want to let everybody know about some other stuff you can listen to. Charlie Lingret of the Washington Capitals joined Craig and Sean on the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. So now that you're not listening to us, go listen to that. And when you're done doing that, you know what I'm going to tell you. You got to get your annual subscription to The Athletic for just $2 a month for a year when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.

If you want to see what we look like when we're doing this, go to our YouTube channel. YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. I want to say big thanks again to Ben Hankinson. For Russo, for Jesse. I'm Pizzo. We'll see you next week.