The Athletic Hockey Show - Tom Fitzgerald's red hot New Jersey Devils have gone streaking, GM Meeting update and 2023 Hockey Hall of Fame candidates

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Rob, Jesse and Russo welcome New Jersey Devils General Manager Tom Fitzgerald, as the Devils extend their win streak to 10 games The guys talk with Tom about the positive changes in Newark led by Lindy Ruff, Jesper Bratt and Nico Hischier, and Fitzy provides an update on the GM Meetings.Plus the roundtable discusses more from the GM meetings including coaches challenge, puck over the glass penalty and players wearing Kevlar based protective gear and the guys present what players they'd like to see enter Hockey's Hall of Fame in 2023.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, joined as always by my line mates. Mike Russo in Minnesota. How are you, Mike?

I'm doing great. How are you guys? Well, I think we're both doing better than Jesse Granger, who, as always, joins us from Vegas. I get a text from Jesse yesterday. both of us love to talk about our men's leagues as if, you know, maybe a scout's going to show up at some point and say, hey,

let's give one of those guys a chance. But he sends me this picture of this looks like a massive hickey on his neck, but he claims it was via a puck hitting him in the throat and narrowly missing his windpipe. And all I thought about was, oh, shit, if it hit his windpipe, he wouldn't be able to host the show with us.

But luckily, it didn't hit his windpipe and he's alive and well. How are you feeling, Jesse? Yeah, not great. I've definitely been better. The whole right side of my neck is incredibly sore. And I don't want to hear the hicky. It's literally the shape of a hockey puck. It's literally the shape of a hockey puck. Rob had the great, man, I guess he noticed that you could almost see the words from the pocky puck transferred onto my neck. Brutal, man. As a goalie, I get hit with pucks all the time. Like, you have all this gear on. The puck will find a way. But like, I've never been hit in the neck before. I wear a. plastic dangler that 99.999% of the time will. But the equipment's designed for you to have your chin tucked. And I did not have my chin tucked on this shot because it was through a bunch of traffic. And I was like trying to look. I was stretching my neck out, trying to look over the,

screens in front of me. And slap shot from the blue line found its way straight into my throat. It was brutal. And I'm assuming like every other men's league injury, it hurt more the next day. Yeah, I woke up the next day and yeah, it was not happy. It was pretty brutal. Like in the moment, it was terrifying because I thought like, oh my God, am I not going to be able to breathe? Once I took the first big inhale and realized like, okay, the windpipe is working, that was when it was just like, okay, all right, I calm down. All right. I can breathe.

This just stings. But when it first hit me in the throat, it was like so close to the windpipe, I was like legitimately terrified. And there's no like medical attention there, right? I mean, you're at the mercy of calling 911. those situations? Yeah, the referee immediately said, do you want me to call like an ambulance? Like before I could even like catch my breath. And once I like was able to breathe, I was like, no, no, no, we're good. I actually ended up finishing the game. But initially it was scary. Like, like, like I said, I was the biggest worry was like, am I going to be able to breathe?

Did you win? We did win. There you go. Come on. Wow. It hangs on for the four to win. There you go. So So, yeah, so tell me you're going to wear it. Tell me you're going to wear a neck guard now. Yeah. So, but like I said, I wear the dangler. Yeah, but I mean, like, you know, but I, I do have an additional throat guard. So I'm going to wear that and the dangler.

Yes, I am taking extra precautions. Yeah. All right. So you were hurt. You were not injured. We'll talk about injuries later on because we do have the laundry list just keeps, I feel like every single week I'm asking you guys about injuries, but we're going to talk about a lot of stuff because it was a busy week, guys on and off the ice.

We had a Hall of Fame weekend. We had a bunch of milestones that were set. but let's start with the GM meetings. You know, there's usually two of them. One took place yesterday, always right after Hall of Fame induction weekend. And the other one is in March. One is pre-trade deadline day. So you get all the GMs together.

They start talking trades. And the other one is post-trade deadline day. But while there wasn't anything massive that came out of these meetings, and I should mention speaking of GMs, Tom Fitzgerald, the GM of the New Jersey Devil is going to be joining us in the second segment. So we'll touch on this with him as well. But a couple of things we're discussed, and I want your opinions on these guys. Challenges were discussed in a myriad of different ways.

After that Trevor Zegra's lacrosse goal was called back, I think people were kind of like, what are we doing here? What's the spirit of the offside rule? Also, as Elliot Freeman from Hockey Night and Canada kind of put out there, what you lose on a challenge. Do they want to go back to it just being a timeout? Do they want it to still be a penalty? That was kind of shot down.

What came out of these meetings for you guys? Was there a certain rule that you were hoping would be addressed that didn't? Was there something that you still angers you that we're talking about this when you think this GM meeting number one, what pops in your head? Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah. For me, the offside, I think a lot of people are frustrated with it when goals get taken away where the offside literally had nothing to do with it.

To me, I'm hoping for a, like, a statute of limitations. Like, can we get a 10 second, 20 second limit if the offside occurred more than 10 seconds before the goal was scored? Like, if you are all coming in on the rush and one guy's ahead of the puck, you're getting an advantage by being offside. But if the guy's skate blade was an inch past the line and then you cycled it around the offensive zone for 45 seconds and then someone scored, that offside gave you. no advantage. You didn't score that goal because you were offside. So to me, I was hoping for maybe

a, like a statute of limitations on that type of review. I think it would eliminate some of the frustration while also still keeping the spirit of the rule. Doesn't sound like we're going to get that, but that was kind of what I was hoping for. Michael, what about you? Yeah, you know, I'm with you there. But where this really all stem from was the Zegra's goal and how beautiful it was. And that one would not have been saved by the statute of limitations. I mean, Kulikov was a hair offside and then Zegroes scores the goal. So if there was a statute of limitation, that goal still would have been wiped out. Right. I don't know the best way to fix this because I do think this rule should be in. You know, part of it is from what I've seen with my own eyes. I remember 2014 playoffs, the Wilde won

the series against Colorado. But Colorado won two winning goals, two winning and tying goals in that series, including one that forced game six, or put them up in three two in game six, going into game six on Stasney being offside. And, you know, there was no repercussions. Mike Yo handled it amazingly. You know, the media was ready to just destroy the league. And Mike Yo just went out there and says, it doesn't matter anymore. We got to go win to game six. So I like that. So I think there needs to be an offside challenge. I just don't know how you fix this. But I agree with you on the statute of limitations. Like the ones that really do, really bother me are the ones that, you know, a guy is barely off sides and now, you know,

there's been changes of possession, but the puck doesn't leave the zone. It's 20, 30, 40 seconds. And then they're rewinding the clock to look at somebody that was a little off sides. I think that is a little bit foolish. But again, I don't know how you fix that type of stuff because, you know, you put in the statute of limitation, sure, but it doesn't save the Zegro's goal, which is what created this mess, is that you're taking a beautiful goal, an unbelievable play and you're saying, you're gone because Kulikoff was this much offside. He wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't an egregious off sides. So I don't know how you fix that.

The other one that really, and I saw it last night in the Nashville, Minnesota game, is again, you know, Dumba, and I still never got a great replay to know if Dumba actually put the puck in the stands or it hit the glass first, but the linesman signals at first that it hits the glass,

the four officials conference for 25 seconds, and somehow they decide that the puck went over the glass when clearly one guy who was right there thought it hit the glass and the other three debated, them out of it. And to me, this, we have so many foolish, I don't want to say foolish, but we have so many ways to review things now, high sticking minors, hand passes on goals, you know, all this type of stuff, you know, in the offensive zone that you can review besides just challenges, goalie interference offside. Why on something that can 100% definitively be determined by replay,

are we leaving it to officials to guess? There is so much stuff happening fast on the ice. why should these guys have to be, you know, 100% sure without the benefit of looking at what will tell you 100% definitively sure that that puck went into the stands? I just don't know why the GMs don't table this rule and get this taken care of because to me, it's simple fix. I've been pro replay forever. I think I've always said, let's get this right. If a puck went in, let's make sure it's in with the exception of offside.

I just think the egregious one. Ones, yes, I understand the Stasney one, I was about three feet offside, that goal. But I just don't think when you weigh out all these ones that are literally, you said a hair, Mike, I don't even know if it was a hair. It was half a hair. To negate a beautiful goal like that is worth it. I just think we stick to the eye test when it comes to off sides. That's what I would like to see because it's taken away with the spirit of the rule is supposed to be. It was supposed to be, hey, the linesman really miss an egregious one.

an overtime goal was scored, we got to get that back. This is getting ridiculous. When it comes to the puck over the glass, I actually have a different beef that every year they bring this up and I don't get it. You know, and it was reported that this came up yesterday as well. Do they want to put it back into the referee's hands as to whether a puck going over the glass was intentional or not? And they said, well, they don't want to give the refs that sort of, you know,

responsibility because that's really tough if it's game seven or whatever. That's what referees do. Everything they do is discretion. Whether someone got hooked is a discretion. Whether it's a minor or major is a discretion call. Hybrid icing. We're literally asking a linesman to guess who's going to win a race by a certain point. That's discretion.

Why, you know, I've seen so many. Net over. Yeah, everything is a discretion. Net off the moorings. Net off the moorings. I mean, last night, to me, I can't remember for it was Spurgeon or Duham, took the net off the moorings, I thought intentionally. and the referee didn't call the penalty, but that's a discretionary call.

You are telling the ref decide if it's intentional or not. Exactly. I agree with you there. Like to me, the accidents or which can be saved here. Like I cover this league back when Darius Casperitis any time there was any pressure put the puck in the stand. So I know,

like I agree that this needs to be a penalty. But you're 100% right. If it's an accident, you know, to me it should be an obvious discretionary call that four officials can make. You ask them to do a lot. This one they can do. Yeah, I agree with you.

100%. Another way to fix it in terms of like whether it hit the glass or not is eventually they've got to use these puck tracking chips. And if you put a chip in the puck, it's like in tennis, they can in one second say, yeah, that ball touched the line or it didn't because of this because of all the tracking they've got. In hockey, think of how easy it would be to just have a guy in the, in the ref's ear. And the ref says, did that puck at the glass? look at the microchip.

Did it change direction? Nope. It didn't. It over the glass. They wouldn't have to go over to the side and do a review in Toronto because that's the the biggest complaint for no more replays is we don't want to slow the game down. I don't really buy that for hockey. Hockey games are fast.

You don't see three and a half hour hockey games like you do football and baseball. But if you had a microchip in the puck, which they have been saying they're going to do for 50 years now, it feels like it would be a simple call. Did it hit the glass? Nope, didn't change directions. It didn't hit the glass. Penalty, it's awarded. It's over. Yeah. And also going back to your timing issue, I've always believed there just should be a video judge for every single game.

How many times something happens, the referee's on their way to the penalty box to put the headset on. And we already know, oh, this is coming back. You know, we just know. And we're wasting all this time. There's a lot of ways to fix this. They sound like from all, everything that has come out of these GM meetings, part one, it's going to be status quo. Another thing that was brought up was possibly using the Kevlar protective gear.

And of course, this stems after something happened last week, Dewey Van der Kaine. We talked about it on the show, guys. Skate goes over his wrist. It was a scary moment, a lot of blood. We were under the assumption from his tweet that he was going to be back relatively soon because he just said, well, I'm not going to be playing the next game. News came out not long after we were done our pod that it's three to four months. I can't believe this isn't, you know, it's kind of like when they start putting the skate

protectors in and the block, you know, the block protectors on their skates, blows my mind that this isn't something that, you know, if it's possible and it doesn't affect your play, cover me head to toe in something that's not going to allow me to get sliced open. Yeah, I went to the Vegas, St. Louis game the other day, and I've never seen so many guys lose their footing. And there was one play in the corner where I think Robert Thomas lost his footing. and I think it was Brady McNabb came right by him and I took a deep breath. I'm amazed that this stuff doesn't happen more often. It really is unbelievable.

So I'm with you there. You know, I don't know. I mean, you know the way that that players are with equipment though. You know, it's going to have to be something that is, you know, if you're going to have stuff like that, it's going to have to be something that I would think is optional because players, I mean, you know, you could, I mean, we see it with foot protectors, right, shot blockers. The Wild tried to mandate it five or six years ago.

and maybe a little longer and players just did not like the feel of it and all that type of stuff. I mean, players. I get it. If it affects you, if it screws up,

you're even your head a little bit, I get it. I cannot see Kevlar. Like, I can't see an underarmor not making a good Kevlar, you know, protector or something like that in the future. It just seems weird to me.

Yeah, but okay, like when I saw the cane thing, I thought, wow, that could happen to anyone, right? Like,

I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often. I was in the Golden Knights' dressing room. other day. And there were players, this wasn't an interview. There were players just talking amongst themselves and wasn't on the record, so I won't say who they were. But they were, the ascent, like the gist of the conversation was that can't happen to every player. He, Evander Kane is wearing his his elbow pads and his gloves in a way that leaves his wrist, like, ridiculously open for that. Like now he's lucky it hadn't happened up until now. But like, basically, from what I understood from what these players are saying is most guys, that can't happen.

happen. That part of your arm is protected. The gloves come up high enough and the elbow pads come down low enough that there really isn't a big gap right there unless you're wearing your elbow pads like really, really high like he likes to do it. So yes, I think maybe there could be kev there can be advancements, but also it's like you said, these are hockey players. They don't like to wear their equipment. Some of them, if they would just wear their equipment properly, the way it was designed to be worn, then you wouldn't even need any additional equipment. The equipment they have right now, works just fine. You mean like a mouth guard? Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. Right. You see goals being scored actually in the act of scoring the

goal and the mouth guard's hanging out the side of the guy's mouth. Just ditch it. I mean, who cares? I mean, it's it blows my mind. We'll have to wait and see on that one. But, but that. You know who's the king of that is Matthew Kachuk? Like, yeah, when he, I'm almost positive, I saw this right. When he put his stick blade into Jonathan Quick's eye hole, he was like chewing on his mouth guard during that action. It was, it's pretty funny. Leads us into the injury talk, guys.

As I mentioned, K, no, three to four months, but I feel like every week we're talking about this. Patrick Lianay is going to miss three to four weeks with a sprained ankle. The Leafs released a statement saying that Jake Muson, Jake Muson's going to be out indefinitely because of a cervical spine injury. I'm no doctor,

but that ain't good. And he's going to be re-evaluated in February. That to go along with T.J. Brody. So we've got teams now and GMs kind of scrambling to fill holes, specifically on the blue line. I know the Sands are looking for a blue liner. Obviously, Toronto is going to be looking for one. And we're hearing that San Jose is now, quote, listening if somebody calls about one Eric Carlson, who, by the way, has a no movement clause. Your thoughts on these injuries and maybe how these teams can fix their blue lines, Russo.

Well, it isn't it amazing. you have all these grand plans when you come into a season and one or two injuries derails everything, right? I mean, you know, it's just it's just a fact. I mean, we'll be talking to Tom Fitzgerald in a little bit and that's happened to the devil's last year. Vegas Golden Knights, you know, great example of, you know, they had two waves of massive injuries last year. They seemed, and Jesse, correct me, I'm wrong, handled the first one really well, you know, to the point that they were tops in the league around the All-Star game. and then they just got destroyed in the last, you know, what, two months of the season and it ruined their season. Here in Minnesota right now, you know, depth is majorly screwed up just simply because of two injuries. Ryan Hartman, you know, gets into a fight in Chicago, an inexplicably dumb fight to say it bluntly.

And it has now absolutely derailed the wild because it's just changed everything around. They don't have a number one center. I mean, they have Freddie Guadro playing number one center right now. Greenway, same thing. It's just amazing to me how how you could have all these unbelievable plans. You'd sink millions of dollars into making your team greater than one or two injuries, you know, just could screw everything up. And so I do think that some of these teams that have high expectations still are going to have to react. And, you know, the way that other GMs are. They're sitting there with their chop, you know, licking their chops waiting to take advantage

of these teams. Yeah, I mean, especially like you look at Toronto, their blue line already, wasn't all that good. And you take muzzan out of it. And like, you're going to have to score a lot of goals, especially with the goalies they have. You're going to have to score a lot of goals to win games. The Eric Carlson aspect is interesting to me because like three months ago, we were like, the sharks couldn't get rid of that contract if they tried. Like no one would take on that deal. How many years is you have left in that deal?

It's like five years left or something. And here we are. He has, yes, he's playing excellently right now. But we knew it's like we didn't think he sucked. We just thought that contract is massive. He's on the downside of his career. No one would ever take on that contract. And then now he has 15 good games.

And it's like, are the bidders going to be lining up to San Jose? I'm not so sure. I am not convinced that there, that the sharks. Like when I see the quote, yeah, we're willing to listen to offers on Eric Carlson. It's like, well, of course, because you couldn't give that contract away. What do you, Rob, do you think that there's, Do you think there are teams willing to take on that contract right now? Ottawa.

I think Ottawa has got a lot of cap room. And I think as much as people keep preaching patience with this team, we've had two years of Pierre Dorian saying the rebuild is over. I think desperate times maybe call for a little bit of desperate measures with all that cap room. I could see him returning to Ottawa. I honestly could. That would be delicious. It would be great.

Does he wave the no move to go back to Ottawa? I mean, San Jose is bad right now, but it also is the Bay Area. And he's got a lot of money. I'm sure he's got a sweet house on a hill in the Bay. Like, I can picture it in my head. Does he waive his note? Like, if there's a place, like, he might waive it to go to a contender. Ottawa is not a contender right now.

But if there's a non-contender that he would waive it for, it's probably Ottawa. Yeah, I'm not saying it's going to happen. What I am saying, like, you know, come trade deadline day. I don't think he's going to be the number one guy that we all think is 100% going to be moved. but I'm not, I'm not convinced it's not going to happen. I think desperate GMs and desperate teams do desperate things. And if you've got the cap room to do said desperate things, you're going to do it. Jacob Chikrin, too.

I haven't even mentioned him. He's another one who everyone keeps bringing up. It's funny, Jesse, it's almost like you were leading me in with something you said there into our next topic. You said, his contract sucks. That was one of the most famous lines by one, Roberto Luongo, when he was trying to move from Vancouver who went into the Hall of Fame officially this week, along with the Sedeans, Daniel Alfordson, Rika Salinan, and Herb Carnegie in the Builders category.

I spend a lot of time shitting on who gets in and out of the Hall of Fame. I admit it. People tell me, Rob, shut up enough. But I still watch Hall of Fame weekend all the time. And it's really tough to argue any of these people not going into the Hall of Fame. The speeches I thought were great. I love Hall of Fame weekend as a whole. I mean, seeing Boris Salming at the Leaf game, my wife came downstairs and she's like,

are you okay? And I'm like, I'm not crying. You're crying. Like, it was just one of those like really emotional times. I mean, what can we say about these, these, you know, inductees guys? I mean, no arguments here, right? Jesse? Definitely not.

The one stat I saw this weekend that was fascinating to me was I saw a site. It was one of the espudation sites. that put out a like point shares above threshold, which is basically their way of doing like war in baseball. And Daniel Alfredson was the highest player of all time not to be in the Hall of Fame. So he was right between Paul Coffey and Luke Robatai. The fact that he hadn't gotten into this point is insane. Definitely writing a wrong by getting him in. That was my that was my biggest take of the weekend was he was more than deserving. Cool to see him get in. Yeah. And obviously, I mean, first year of eligible.

Roberto Luongo, you know, I do think that when he was in Florida, when I covered him there, his stats were padded a little bit because of very generous shot counters there. In fact, I witnessed Rick Dudley go absolutely ballistic on the off-ice officials one day. Two years in a row, Roberto Luongo broke NHL records for saves and shots against while I was covering him down in Florida. But an absolute beauty, you know, even down in Florida before he became the Twitter fam guy, you know, Straumone 1 on Twitter and before everybody knew it was him, the guy was absolutely hilarious to cover. And a great, great person. I mean, this is somebody that I remember, you know,

again, this is pre-social media, you know, so you had little different relationships maybe with, with players. But even after every single practice, his father-in-law, who became his father-in-law, owned a restaurant down there called Pizza Time. That was about a mile from the Panthers practice facility. And he would, and Roberto would basically tell us, hey, go in there, you guys, can write your stories there. My father-in-law will feed you and all the stuff. And every single day, David J. Neal, Brian Begayn and myself would go in there and eat lunch while we were writing our stories after practice. I remember when Mike Keenan, while Roberto was in Hawaii vacationing, he fired Clint Milarchuk as his goalie coach without Roberto apparently knowing. And Roberto was

absolutely distraught. He bought Clint Milarchuk a Rolex, if I remember, just a really, really good person. So Hall of Fame, Human, Hall of Fame player, and I'm just really, really happy for him. And as we do every single year, we have to look ahead to next year. Henrik Longfuss is, it's his first year eligibility. I don't foresee him not getting in unanimously. But every year, guys, the list gets longer and longer of players who many people believe should be in. I'm going to beat the same Alexander McGilney drum. I've been beating for five years. What the hell did Alexander McGilney do to to deserve this? Like I'm getting to a point where I feel like he's the guy at the dance that no one's asking to dance. You know what I mean? Like what's what's going

on here? I'm a McGillney guy. I think he should be in. Do you guys have somebody who you're saying, what's what the hell's taking so long? Russo. Brendan Moore. You know, I just think I mean, that guy, you know, a cup winner, one of the best two way forwards of his time. You know, you'd ask anybody on those Carolina teams how important he was to those teams and the culture that they created down there when they went to the Stanley Cup final and ultimately won the Stanley Cup as well. I just think he's absolutely deserving. And I think at some point, I know that maybe the numbers don't scream Hall of Fame, but his overall body of work does. I'm doing this Madonna, NHL-99 story right now, and I was even talking to him about him the other day. And it's the same

type of thing. You know, like Madonna is one of these guys. He has obviously just an amazing amount of points, most points and goals of every U.S. born player, but he could have had a heck of a lot more, you know, some people say in another system, maybe 500 more points if he wasn't such a great two-way player. And that's what Rod Brindamore took pride in was being that guy that wins, draws, kills penalties, and all that type of stuff. And I just think at some point he's got to get in. And I think he will. Jesse, what goalie do you think is not in? you know what? I'm not even, I don't have someone, like, I guess I could, if you wanted me to pick when I'd say Cujo, but I, I am not going to scream from the rooftops. The one that, like,

what I'd like to bring up is Hank Lunkwist next year, first year eligible. Justin Williams is the other one who's first year eligible. And he is so fascinating to me because his stats alone are like, not even remotely close to being a Hall of Famer. Like the guy topped 30 goals twice, barely. His highest goal point total for a season is 76 points. Like, that's the highest of his whole career. But yet he's in the conversation because he's Mr. Game 7. Like, you, Michael brought up the hurricanes and how important he was to winning those cups. Like, you could go around and find a lot of players that would talk about how important Justin Williams is to winning cups.

And to me, it's such a fascinating. Like, that's one of the more interesting Hall of Fame arguments to me. I don't know which side I'm on. I'd have to think a lot more about it. But he is very, very fascinating to me because there are big moments that he's had that are the Hall of Fame worthy moments. But then you look at his overall career and it's like this guy was definitely not one of the best players at any point during his career. It's super interesting to me. Like, how do you guys view?

I don't think he's a Hall of Fame. No. If he is, and McGilney, better get in with him because Brad Pisa will go crazy. He will. I will. It's like the last time we ranted about this guy is Paul Henderson. Paul Henderson scored three very big goals in an exhibition tournament. Everyone screamed that he should be in the Hall of Fame.

Look at his numbers have to come into play. I get it. You know what I mean? There are players that do things that aren't necessarily going to get you on highlight reels or show up on a stat line that are integral to you winning a Stanley Cup. But in the end, there are numbers like to me, like Jeremy Roanick, Chairmanronic has 500 goals. Like, when did that stop becoming an automatic punch your ticket to the Hall of Fame?

I just, you know, we're, I'm with you, Jesse. It's a tough one because people go, Mr. Game 7. They don't win Stanley Cups without, without Justin Williams. But Hall of Fame is supposed to be the best of the best of the best. Yeah, they don't get two game seven with about a bunch, without a bunch of players that are better than him. Exactly. So I, so Jesse didn't give us his answer. Me, Rousseau, are on the no train?

Are you on the no train right now? You have to punch your ticket? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Mr. Game 7. That's all you're going to have to. Look, he's a good, he's a good, he was a great player. But, you know, great players is just not made. I mean, what did he even have 300 goals? Uh, you know, uh, I know we won the Khan Smyth, uh, but, but honestly like, 320. Okay. So, I mean, like that is not a Hall of Fame number. I mean, it's just it's to me, like I remember when Dino Cisarelli finally got in. I, I remember looking at everybody above him. Like, he was the only 600 goals. score, not in the Hall of Fame, and there were several 500 goals scores. And I'm like, what is going on here? And finally, after like the 10th year of eligibility, it felt like he finally got in. 320 goals, you know, look, he hit a great career. He's always going to be somebody in Carolina that's never going to have to pay for a meal. But that is, you know, to me,

where it should end. He should be in the Carolina Hurricanes Hall of Fame. And speaking of end, we're going to wrap this segment up because afterwards Tom Fitzgerald, the New Jersey Devils, the general manager going to be joining us. So don't go. anywhere. And he is a Hall of Famer. All right, guys. So last season, the New Jersey Devils, their longest winning streak was three games. Not this year, guys. After last night's win over the halves, that streak has hit double digits. It's at 10. And we are very pleased to be joined by the general manager of the team. Tom Fitzgerald on the athletic hockey show. Thanks for doing this, Tom.

Oh, you're very welcome, guys. Hope you're all well. Well, we know you're well. We know things are going well. 13 and 3, 10 wins in a row. I'm really not sure you could have scripted this any better. I mean, it doesn't matter what team. If this was the Colorado Avalanche, we'd be talking about this just being an historic way to start the season. But it's got to be ear to year grins across the organization right now, doesn't it? I think everybody's happy where we're at.

But again, it's the results have been great, you know, but we're really focusing on the process and how we got here and what we needed to do differently. How do we think differently? you know, how do we approach each day differently? How do we keep each other accountable? So there's been a bit of a culture shift within that room in the locker room. I think the maturity of our younger pillars is showing right now. But, you know, when you add guys to that room who have, you know,

championship pedigree, that expectations are to make the playoffs, you just inject the room with a different mindset on, you know, what your day-to-day is, But to be quite honest, the coaching staff has done a really good job of preparing our team and how we play, making adjustments. But we're really just focusing on the process, not the result. I'm still fascinated. Like, 1995, you're a young 20-something hockey player and behind the bench is Lindy Ruff in Florida. And I'm like, like, it just shows. I mean, here we are, what, 27 years later, could you ever have imagined that you'd be hired?

hiring Lindy Rough to coach your team. No, I mean, you know, when you play, you just worry about playing. And you think you can play forever. And you don't think about what's after. But when you get to that, you know, that time of your life and career, you start thinking about what's next. And for me, managing was never what's next. Hockey, standard hockey would be great.

You know, I think I'd be a pretty good coach. You know, I like the X and O's, the motivation. And, uh, no, I didn't. You know what, Lindy, I actually got Lindy's name from a friend said, hey, you should probably interview Lindy Rock. I was like, really? He was assistant in, in New York. The greatest thing about Lindy is it's not his records.

It's not where he sits, uh, in the coaching, um, uh, scheme. It's, he's just a great person. He's just a good man. And, you know, I think that's the one area that we've, we focused in on. And then it starts at the top, and it started with Lee Schero before me. Hired good people. You know, Ray did that with a bunch of guys, and I've done it since.

And you just, you hire good people that care. You hire people who are curious, people who have growth mindsets and want to get, want to get better, don't know it all, you know, and are willing to be challenged and challenge. And Lindy, when he checks all those boxes. He's just a great person. You had to get a kick out of the sorry, Lindy. chant the other night, right? Well, that was nice

to acknowledge the initial chance. In Linda, you dressed it. We've got very passionate, in impatient fan base, and very good reason. They expect a lot, as do we. You know, I'm glad they're enjoying it right now,

but they're passionate. And, you know, like, that's what passionate fan bases do. They express their thoughts and their opinions and when we respect that. A lot of people are surprised by this start, but you mentioned the change in culture. There were some things that needed to change, but there were a lot last year, even without the success on the scoreboard, the success in the standings. There were a lot of metrics that pointed to this being a really good hockey team. I guess how surprised are you guys that the team has been this good? Were there a lot of things that you guys saw going into this year building on last

year that you kind of foresaw this type of jump? You're right. There was a lot of positives from a negative season, you know. You saw where the metrics were trending. You saw where our young players were growing and how they were growing. And the confidence that they were having, we changed. I give the coaching staff credit last year of changing on how we wanted to play. We became more passive than aggressive because of what we were giving up.

been what we were letting in. So they made some adjustments. Yeah, you want to help your team, again, take the next step. But at the end of the day, it's individuals, you see where Nico Hesia's game is going. Jack and Jester Brat, even our, you know, our so-called fourth line. I don't think they're our fourth line, the BMW line, and what they bring to the game every day. The one thing that I was really, you know, impressed with and encouraged by and, you know, and really agreed with was every player needs a role.

You just can't have guys not playing, just playing five-on-five, or give them a role, give them ownership in something, make them feel part of a group, whether it's on the PKK or the power play, you know, empower them to be part of something great. You know, what's the why? Like, why you want our team? Like, I can do this, this, and this.

But the most important thing is the buy-in. You have to have buy-in from players. Good teams have buy-in from every single player to play a role. And I think that's what you're seeing this year, plus the injection, I said it earlier, the injections of injecting, you know, championship pedigree with a palat, the style play of an Ericala and what he brings to the table, the all-around play of John Marino, the toughness and hardness of Brendan Smith. Like, we want to address certain areas and we check those boxes.

But at the same time, we're a draft and development team. We have to build from within and develop and really put the onus in on our development side. You kind of stole my next question because I know your philosophy on rental players has always kind of been, it's tough for them to come in and make that turnaround. You were, you know, dealt twice at the deadline. And it's tough turnaround to do. And when a team is slowly improving, that's an easy sell. hey, we're going to build within, we're going to do exactly what you just said.

But when your team's off to such a start, how difficult is it to convince your fan base, convince ownership, convince just the people in your room that, hey, we cannot go out and just change our philosophy because we're sitting in first place right now. I mean, that's got to be tough because everyone loves to tinker when things are going this well, don't they? Yeah, for sure. And I think if you're not challenging your group every day, even through a 10-game winning streak or a five-game losing street, then you're not looking to improve.

You know, we're not satisfied. And we don't look ahead. We stay right in the present moment right now. So people can talk to me about deadline, future with this guy or this player. I just want to continue to build out the process with this group and understand, like, guys, let's just take it day to day. Don't look down the line. You start looking ahead.

Today gets messed up. We don't want to mess up today. So let's say we're in Toronto today. We're going to prepare and we're ready for a great team tomorrow night. And we're just going to live day to day. But, yeah, I was a trade deadline acquisition twice. And it's hard. It really is.

Your own expectations. You're up and leaving family in some cases. You want to show well. You squeeze the sticks a little bit. The runway is not as long to get you going. It's hard. It really is. but just to add to add is not what we're going to do,

whether it could be hockey change, you know, that happened to better our team. I like where our group's at. I like the mindset. Again, the process is going to take care of the result, and we're just focusing on that right now. Tommy, I wanted to ask you about a couple players. One is Nico Heeshire.

Just how good is this guy going to become? He just seems to be developing into one of the top two-way players in the league, very Patrice Burr. are unlike in the way that he plays. And the other one is Jasper Brett. You know, went to arbitration last year. I got the one-year deal over five after, what, a 75-point season, and now he's leading your team in scoring.

Where is this one heading in terms of a contract? Well, I'll start with Nico. You know, there was a reason why I wanted to name him captain in the short year. I just, the three previous years, you saw how he carried himself, how we respected the game. you know, what he respected in the game, you know, the 200-foot game, I always felt, and I was fortunate to play with Patrice Bergeron in my last year, which probably was his second year after the lockout year. And there's a lot of similarities. The most important thing is, you know, the people, the person. You know, Patrice is a great hockey player's a hall of

famer. He's a great person. He was a great kid. He treats people the right way. And I saw a lot of that in Nico. As an ex-captain, I felt there is an adjustment period to becoming, you know, the captain you want to be. And why not allow him to grow into this in a shortened season where expectations aren't overly high? And he just, he's a, he's just a good, good human being. Now you're seeing the growth in his leadership skills, his voice, not only just his voice, but his actions. He's not a do what I say, not what I do. He does it, says it, and he checks, he just pushes everybody. As far as Bratter's concern, he's, you know, we want, Jessica Brett, long term.

Fortunately, we didn't come to that this summer. We tried. They tried. We tried. But we knew there was a contract there with arbitration. We know we own his rights for another year. I would love nothing better than tip to tie this young man up long term. I believe Jasper Bratt would like to be here long term.

But we'll start those discussions, his age and I, at some point when we can. But make no exchange of butts about the want. Our ownership is committed to Jasper Bratt. We're committed to Jasper Brat. This is part of business. You know, you just negotiate contracts and just try to put these pieces in. That's the way possible. But want is always there.

Tom, we spent an awful lot of our first segment talking about GM meetings and possible rules and things that you guys discussed. And we know that it was just GM meetings part one of two. You guys meet again in March as always. But how heated does it get in there when things like that are discussed? Because I think I look at just the lineup of general managers in the NHL right now. You've got a lot of personalities. You've got a lot of former players, a lot of former players from different eras.

I imagine some people are a little more stubborn and some people are a little more, let's say, open to change. When discussing rules, how heated does it get in there? It doesn't. I mean, my experience, I'd be honest with you, this may have been my first November meeting. I don't because I came in in January 20 first spring meeting the November meeting in 20 was canceled another spring meeting I think that was canceled yeah this was my first one to be honest I've been my first draft GM meeting this past summer because of the live draft no not at all I mean I again I think you've got a room full of people who are curious and want the game to grow and get better

you've got a room full of people who aren't afraid to challenge one another or be challenged. There's a lot of respect in that room. And all we want collectively is for the game to continue to grow and get better. How can we help with that? So really, it was a quick four and a half, five hours, to be honest with it. Anything. Sorry, go ahead, Mike. Just one thing, one more thing on the devil.

Like, you know, obviously big news last week with Marty Bredour coming in as executive vice president of hockey ops. What exactly is his role going to be with you? Well, Marty, when I first became the intern and who was, Marty was taken, you know, from the business side to the hockey side and actually kind of hold on the two role, being advisor, but also help the business side grow with through sponsorships, season ticket holders, jersey designs. He helped to sign our third jersey. You know, he's so passionate about both the devils and in hockey. He just wanted to focus in on hockey. Not that we won't use him because, you know, this is the guy who's got a statue of,

I want to go speak to people. But he's a great sounding board for me. You know, he's really been instrumental on our goalie department. And, you know, whether it's hiring our goalie coaches, vetting that process, scouting. now goaltenders and understanding like where other teams are at. Being part of my management staff to, he sits on everything. He sits on our pro calls, our amateur calls, my biweekly, you know, operations calls,

ownership calls, you know, he's just a great liaison to have because of the wealth of knowledge, the passion he has for the team, putting, you know, maybe special assignment, scouting trips, doing reports, you know, which is important. to know what he sees. He's touching everything. He's just been a great resource for me to lean on because of his passion and experience in hockey and for the devil. To jump back to the GM meetings, I think one of the rules that we argued the most feverishly and I guess the fans were the most interested is is the offside rule. And I'm just curious your perspective and maybe what you heard in the GM meetings and just the overall feel of how this, now that we've,

seen it a few years and how it's been implemented and the type of plays it's calling back, do you feel like it's doing what it was intended to do? Absolutely. And it's funny, I was talking to our coaches today. You know, and Lindy said it, if we do the job right, we should be 100%. We should have 100% batting average of challenges. You know, if we're looking at the right things. And yeah, these linesmen, that's, it's a hard job, you know, and miss up,

They make a distraction for a second because something's coming at, someone's coming at them. But I think the rule has worked. Yeah, we've been on both sides for sure. When do you challenge? Does another team's power play come into play? If it doesn't go right, then you're tied to two, oh, it's three two, you challenge it. The 35% power play comes over the boards. Right.

You know, those are all things that go into that decision. in very short time. And it's hard. But I do think it's worked. I don't think you, I think definitely challenges it down because of that penalty. You may take if it goes against you. But no,

I definitely think the rule has worked the way everybody intended it too. Tommy, I remember when I was covering you in Florida, one of my favorite things to do, I probably wrote 10 of them was going to the America West Arena locker room and talk to Keith Kachuk about you and get all sorts of childhood stories about your cousin. What's your, you know, we, you know, there's a lot always we see all about Matthew and Brady, and there are obviously two stars in this league. What are your best memories of them as little kids

growing up and how proud are you what they've achieved? Well, you know, of course, we're proud of all our family members, you know, the Hayes boys, my boys, the Kachuk boys are, you know, they'll be the elite of our week. They sure take out their father on the ice. But their personalities are more like their mother, and that's a better thing. So, yeah, living in St. Louis, we'd see them certain events. But we were fortunate because Matthew and my son Casey played together on the same development team in Ann Arbor. So those two years were incredibly important in our family, where my dad and,

and Pete's dad would travel out together to watch. They were fun times. I mean, how often does that happen for family members to actually play with each other? So, you know, I, again, we're going to see Brady on Saturday. I hope he has a good game, but the team doesn't. But I always wish them well. And, you know, you're always rooting for them when they're not playing against your team. And that's the unique part.

Like, I'm a general manager of the team. And Keith works for a team. And my boys are in other organizations. And then you get the Hayes, Kevin Hayes, you know, in Philadelphia. So there's a lot of rivalry going on, but there's a lot of love. We're a very small family, and we take care of each other. We look up to each other. And I know my dad looking down has had a lot of fun watching these kids and Keith and myself.

And Tom, we've had a lot of fun talking to you. I mean, we talked about the Hall of Fame in the first segment as well. Keith Kachuk, we were talking about people who were on the outside looking in could be getting the call at some point as well. thanks so much for doing this. Congratulations on a great start to the season. Good luck the rest of the way. Appreciate it, guys. Anytime. Take care. Yep. See it. Tom Fitzgerald, the general manager of the New Jersey Devils. After the break, rapid fire. So don't go anywhere. All right, boys, your favorite time of the show in mind, rapid fire. Just a couple things we want to get out on this one. We had plenty of milestones last night. John Tavares finally getting his 400 goal.

Stephen Stamco's 500 assists. And he's now just 11 goals away from 500 goals as well. But the one that kind of jumped out to me, We talked about the Kachucks with Tom Fitzgerald. Matthew Kachuk gets his 400th point, which is an accomplishment, but usually not a headliner. That is, unless your dad, Keith, also had 400 plus points. They're now the ninth father-son duo to get 400 plus points each. Fourth highest father-son duo scoring combo of all time behind. I don't know if you guys heard of these people. Gordian Markow, Bobby and Brett Hall, and Peter and Paul Stassie.

quite an accomplishment when you consider there's also another Kachuk in Ottawa, right? It's incredible the rate in which NHL players' sons are awesome. I feel like when I watch other sports, it doesn't happen very often. As a Broncos fan, when John Elway's son was coming out of high school, everyone in Denver, is like, oh, this guy is going to be the next great thing. And then he doesn't even make it to college. And like Michael Jordan's sons never really did much in basketball. I feel like when you can have 400 points and your dad and you're only the fourth highest scoring father-son duo, to me that's what stands out.

It's insane the rate in which these players' sons are great at hockey. Yeah, I mean, you know, I still think back of when I covered Florida and just the number of kids that I used to see running around their locker room that are now in the NHL. You know, the Tyson Barry's and the, you know, Sam Gagne's and Adam Lowry's and Connor Murphy's. It's just over the, you know, we just had Fitsy on his son, Sutter's. It's just, it truly is unbelievable and one that ages me. But Matthew Kachuk is an absolute superstar. I wish he could cut out all the nonsense that he does on the ice and just play the game a little more honestly. But as Tommy just said, you know, he's got a lot of Keith in him.

And Keith was a, you know, a hard-nosed player to go along with being just an outstanding hockey player. Funny you mentioned the Gagnets, Dave and Sam Gagne. also on that list of father's son 400 point scorers. And guys, the World Cup of hockey ain't going to happen this year, or in 2024. The exact quote from the league is, and from the NHLP, I should mention. The current environment is not feasible to hold the World Cup of hockey at that time. We continue to plan for 2025. Obviously, they're talking about the war in Ukraine with Russia and Ukraine,

but not a shocker at all. Is it? Russo? No, I mean, well, you want Russia to take part in this. And I think, you know, punting it a year, you know, the hope is that will happen. There are just too many incredible Russian hockey players in the National Hockey League to not have a World Cup that includes them. And so I get it.

And, you know, it's, you know, we've discussed this before. I cover Karesev here. You've got into a political ping pong match this offseason. These players that are from Russia have nothing to do. do with what is going on in their country. It's not their doings. And yet they're getting roped into all of this. And so I totally respect the fact that you don't want Russia to take part of any international competitions right now in anything. But at some point, the hope is that that sanity prevails and that the world gets back to normal and having Russia be part of the

World Cup, I think is necessary. Yeah, I totally agree. It was expected. Not surprising. the players faces, like I asked a couple of the guys just chatting with them in the room the other day about it, and they are super, super disappointed. Like, it sucks that they're going to have to wait another year. They were really looking forward to a best on best international tournament, but for all the reasons, Mike just said, makes a lot of sense to postpone it. Speaking of sucks, guys, I'm not going to be here next week. Sucks for me. It doesn't suck for you guys. Should mention, we're going to have Joe Smith filling in. So this is it from us. Another great show. And I want to thank you guys for listening.

thank you guys for co-hosting, and I want to let everybody know what else we got going on here at the Athletic Hall of Famer, Marion Hosa, visits with Craig Custins and Sean Gentilly on the Athletic Hockey Show USA.

You got goal scoring, the goal scoring goalie, which we don't say very often, Jesper Walsstad, who joined Russo on the, all new, straight from the source. And remember,

you can subscribe to the Athletics NHL YouTube channel now at YouTube.com. The handle is the athletic hockey. show. And as we say each and every week, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget leave a rating and a review. And this offer still remains to get an annual subscription to the athletic for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com

slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown for Jesse, for Mike, for me, Piso. We'll talk to you next week.