The Athletic Hockey Show - Tony DeAngelo clears waivers, Dom Luszczyszyn joins the show, Multiple Choice Madness, the Hailbag, and more

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

First up, Ian and Hailey discuss the surprising developments out of the Big Apple as New York Rangers defenseman Tony DeAngelo cleared waivers Monday afternoon, leaving his playing future in serious doubt, Sam Bennett reportedly asking for a trade out of Calgary, and Minnesota Wild prospect Marco Rossi reportedly set to miss the entire season due to post-COVID-19 complications.Then, The Athletic’s Dom Luszczyszyn joins the show to talk about the biggest statistical surprises from the first month of the NHL season, the possibility of Connor McDavid reaching 100 points this year, how he calculates his daily picks and game probabilities, his love for the Minnesota Wild, and much more.Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions and Hailey answers listener questions in another installment of the Hailbag.And, don’t forget, you sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And we're back for another edition of the athletic hockey show. I'm Ian Metis alongside Haley Salveen. Coming up on today's episode of the podcast, we'll discuss the latest twist in the soap opera involving Tony D'Angel and the New York Rangers. The controversial defenseman clears waivers after a very interesting weekend in New York. Our analytics guru, Dom, wait for it. Loose Chichen? I don't know.

Haley will tell me if I get it right. She knows I didn't get it right. But Dom's going to drop by. We'll talk about the latest trends and storylines from January. And we'll ask Dom whether or not Connor McDavid can legit flirt with 100 points in a 56 game season. Plus, we'll do a little multiple choice madness and open up the hail bag. But Haley, let's start right here with probably the spiciest, juiciest storyline in the National Hockey League. That involving Tony DiAngelo has an incident on the weekend in which the club puts him on waivers.

and on Monday 12 noon comes and goes, nobody claims 25-year-old puck moving defenseman Tony DeAngelo. So what's our read into this situation? I mean, I just think that if anyone's shocked about this, then you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with Tony DeAngelo over the last however many years it's been. I just think that for whatever you want to say, you know, I did see some takes online yesterday about the fact that, you know, forgive me, I forget who said it, but someone said, you know, the fact is that there is not a place for Tony DeAngelo in the National Hockey League. And somebody actually replied and said, oh, but he had the same amount of points as Quinn Hughes last year.

Like, I'm sorry, they're not in the same conversation. Quinn Hughes and Tony DeAngelo were not in the same conversation in either aspect. You know, I just don't think you can make that comparison. I, you know, however many points you scored last year, 53 points, I believe last season. No team was going to say, yeah, all the blowback, everything that we're going to get written about us, everything that's going to be said about our organization and our decision making, it's not worth it for whatever. he brings, it's not worth it. And that's not a shock at all because this has been an issue. It seems like it's kind of blown up a little bit in the last year or so, this last off season

specifically. But this isn't a new thing, Ian. Like this isn't shocking at all. No, it's not, but it's, it's curious to me, like they signed them to the two year contract extension in the off season, right? Like, yeah. They knew about the problems under the hood and now it all sort of has come out in the light of day. What I think is interesting, Haley, is now that he's cleared waivers. I guess there's a couple of options here for De Anzio. One would be, I guess maybe some team out there was like, yeah, you know what, we are interested in DeAngelo, but you're going have to take a bad contract back. So, you know, we always have to leave room for maybe there's going to be a trade. I think the most likely scenario with this guy is, is given his age, he's

eligible for the one-third buyout in the summertime. So the Rangers don't have to do the traditional, you know, usually a veteran player gets bought out. You have to spend two-thirds of what's remaining on the salary spread out over double the length of the contract. With a player at his age, you only have to bite or eat, sorry, one third of the contract. So I wonder if that's part of it. But I think it's interesting, though. I wonder, have we reached a new point in the National Hockey League where teams are a little bit more aware, a little bit more woke to these types of things?

Where maybe, Haley, maybe five years ago, a guy that finished fourth in school, scoring amongst defensemen the year before would have been snapped up and people would have just said, oh, you know what, he's a young man, we're going to work with him. It's not happening here. At least it certainly didn't happen in the waiver period. Do we feel like the sport has grown a little bit or is it still too early to say that? Well, it's interesting because you just mentioned it, right? Ian, like this wasn't an issue last in the off season. Like they signed him to that big contract extension.

So, and like we said, like some of the more problematic things. that have come about with with Tony DeAngelo in terms of his social media conduct in terms of some of the things that have kind of come out. Those weren't deemed a problem enough to, you know, they still sign him to that contract. So, you know, there's at least some growth in that aspect year over year. But I, you know, I could see this being a situation where, you know, later in the season, maybe a team goes down. They need a defenseman. They can make that trade. or maybe the Rangers go down short and they need a defenseman and they pull them up again. Like I just,

I don't see this being the end of Tony DeAngelo. I don't know why. And maybe that's just me not being, you know, an overly optimistic person. But I just don't know if I see the growth being at that level where every single person in the league is just like, nope, like you said, he was fourth in scoring by defensemen. He had the same amount of points as Quinn Hughes, who was a finalist for the Calder, or he was just a few points off.

Excuse me, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I could just see people overlooking those issues. They didn't right now, which I think we can probably agree is a good sign of growth, but I just don't know what that long-term outlook is going to be. It is going to be fascinating to see if this young man gets another chance to play in the NHL this season. I mean, like, anyway, this is going to be really interesting.

interesting to watch, but clearly they crossed the line or he crossed the line on the weekend. And to me, I think what's really important, Haley, it's one thing for the fans to be on you and the media to be on you. But the minute that it is clear that the teammates inside the room don't have your back. And that's clearly what appears to have happened here with DeAngelo on the weekend. It's a game set match for you. It's really hard to come back when you have trust the issue. with your own teammates, right?

Yeah, for sure. And because there's a debate to be had. And, you know, I don't think that now is that the, like, we certainly don't have enough time to get into everything about it. But I think, you know, there's going to be people who say, you know, oh, some guy tweets shouldn't impact his whatever he's doing on the ice, which I don't, I don't agree with. I think it is a whole package.

But you're right. Like, you know, if Tony DeAngelo's tweets aren't going, over well in the fan base or not going over well with the media we obviously saw that that was fine we saw the new york rangers come out and say we're dealing with this internally we're dealing with this internally we're not going to comment on this and then we saw tony d'angelo continue to play but that breaking point was and we don't want to be overly speculative there have been reports are rick carpentiello reported with multiple sources that there was an altercation um between tony d'angelo and George Yev. And then there's been some other reports that Chris Kreider was maybe involved in this.

Again, I don't want to be overly speculative on the exact details of what happened here because the Rangers aren't coming out and confirming anything. Their coach has said, I'm not talking about these rumors. But obviously the decision has been made by the New York Rangers from the coaching staff to the management, whatever it may be, that this is now bled into the locker room. And you're not with this group anymore. And that was the breaking point. Yeah. And that certainly, I think that was the,

certainly the spiciest story to come out of the weekend in the National Hockey League. A couple of other storylines that came out, Haley, just from the weekend. And one that kind of involved a young player in your market was Sam Bennett. And I was a little bit surprised to see the rumors of, hey, does Sam Bennett want to change the scenery? I thought he was just dynamite for them in that return to play last year. I thought if this guy plays like this, like playoff Sam, like he's a pretty good thing. good player. But there was rumors around him on the weekend and then Victor Mette in Montreal as well.

Interesting to note, it looks like all signs are pointing to Mette being back in the Habs lineup for Monday night's game against Vancouver. But look, we've seen some young players ask for a change of scenery this year, right? Line A, Roslovick, Dubois, now there's some rumblings around Bennett and Mette. Should we, like, is this kind of like the new norm that, hey, if you're a 20-something kid in the National Hockey League and your unrestricted free agency is still years away, it's now like a thing to ask for a change of scenery. And what's happening with Sam Bennett? Yeah. So, and this was something that we brought up the last show too, Ian, with line A and Dubois requesting their trades. And it's, you know, it is a fair question. Are we starting to see the NHL maybe become a bit of this NBA type,

not in terms of the amount of money that these players are getting and demanding? But are we going to start seeing NHL players getting to kind of pick and choose what team they want to play for. And as we've seen with the NBA, if that gets out of control, like it's not exactly great for parity amongst the league. If you start having, you know, the best players in the world, I'll say, you know, let's meet up and go play for this team. Like, we've seen the way that LeBron James can just kind of assemble his squad and dominate. And again, in terms of parity, I mean, it's not great. I much prefer the NHL where you have the talent spread out. You know, any team can win. And we don't see that with the, with the NBA. So I hope that

the NHL doesn't get that far along. Like I said, with guys just kind of coming together and saying, like, let's go play for this team, that team. And that's not to say that there isn't dominant teams already. I mean, you have Leon Dreisdell and Connor McDavid on the Edmonton Oilers. You had the dominant years of, you know, that three-headed monster, as they called it in Pittsburgh, with Malkin and Crosby and Flurry. But those were manufactured by the draft, not by players saying, let's go make a super team. So I much prefer being able to see the nuts and bolts of an organization creating really good

rosters and really good teams. So I do hope that it doesn't get too, too, out of control. And maybe I'm a little bit boring because I think there are some people who would like to see the NHL, you know, go that NBA. route. But, you know, in terms of Victor Mette and Sam Bennett, I am curious because with Sam Bennett and with Victor Mette, you know, he's in the lineup, it looks like. And Mark Bergevan texted Pierre LeBron, our colleague and with TSN saying, you know, not true, not happening about a Victor Mette trade. And then now we're seeing a report from Sportsnet that Sam Bennett has never

formally requested a trade with the Calgary Flames. So it's a curious situation. And I'm wondering if their shared agent, they both share the same agent, Darren Farris. I wonder if the agency saw what we're talking about, the trend with line A and Dubois said, here's an opportunity where we can go into the market, we can use the platform of hockey net in Canada and drum up some interest with our client because we're seeing players get what they want. And if we can flex this idea out there, I wonder if we can control more than we thought. It's a very interesting situation. considering the response from both organizations after this news dropped kind of simultaneously

on Saturday night. Yeah, I think back to even a few years ago, Jonathan Druand wanted out of Tampa and people were like, well, you're too young. And guess what? He kind of got his way out of Tampa. It's been up and down for him, but it certainly looks like he's back on the right side of things in Montreal. So let's stick on the theme of young players here, Haley, as we continue on.

And I thought this was quite the story that came out involving Minnesota Wilde prospect and first round pick Marco Rossi. And, you know, he's been kind of sidelined and has been wrapped in mystery. And he's headed back home overseas to Europe. And for the first time, Mike Russo, our colleague out in Minnesota reporting on the weekend, that the Wilde have acknowledged that Rossi is dealing with post-COVID-19 issues, the upper body issues for Marco Rossi are related to COVID-19. And I wonder if this is going to end up as a cautionary tale, Haley, for young athletes.

I think there's, like, even before COVID came along, I think you can argue young athletes have this air of invincibility around them. I can't get hurt. I'm going to live forever. I'm going to play forever. And then COVID came in. I think there was a little bit more of a pause. But still there was probably like, if I get it,

it's just going to be like a, you know, a 10-day cold. that I'll get through it. Here's Marco Rossi, one of the most talented players in the draft, and he's now sidelined for an indeterminate amount of time because of complications due to COVID. And I wonder if this is going to be something that young athletes start to maybe pay attention to is a story like Marco Rossi's.

Yeah, well, it's certainly really unfortunate. It's, you know, you don't want to see anybody testing positive, and you don't want to see anyone, like, regardless of their age, kind of come back with these long-term symptoms. And like you said, this is a promising young athlete. I think he's someone who probably thought that he could play at the NHL level this year. For all intents and purposes, like he was going pro. Like he wasn't going back to junior.

He wanted to play for the Minnesota Wild. And I think there are some people who believed that he could do that. And like you said, we're seeing these really unfortunate long-term effects. We don't know exactly what that is, whether it's breathing, whether it's soreness. whether it's fatigue, you know, I think that is a cautionary tale. And that's not to say that these young athletes are going out and being reckless. You know, that's not to say that Marco Rossi was being reckless. And that's why he got COVID-19 because I believe that there was, you know,

he was playing on loan overseas. And that's where, you know, I believe he contracted it before the world juniors. But it's scary because you can do everything right. And if it gets in the room and you get it, you don't know if you're going to have these long-term impact. And it absolutely is a cautionary tale because it just shows that no one's invincible to this. You know, there's some really irresponsible narratives around COVID saying that it's only it's only elderly people who are impacted, you know, I'm young, I'm healthy, it's not going to affect me. And we're seeing that that is unequivocally not true. And I do feel for Marco Rossi and his

family. I hope that he does make a full recovery, you know, for his life and his on-ice career, because he is, I'm a huge fan of his game and what he brings to the table. And you just hope that there aren't more situations like this that come about. You don't want to see people's entire future impacted by something like this. All right, Haley, it's time for us. This was our very first guest on our podcast, Haley, and I think we dubbed the segment. It was originally going to be dumb and dumber. then we realized, hey, there's three of us. So there's got to be a dumb, dumb, dumber, and dumbest, right? Is that what we settled on?

No. No. So you're already in the lead for the dumber. It was dom, dumb, dumb, and dumber. I don't think that's true. I think Ian's right. Yeah, it was dom, dumb, dumb, no, because dom, always sounds like dumb, so it was dom and dumber. And then we had dumb, dumber, and dumb. Listen, it's been a rough morning for you. We get it, but you are in the wrong here. She is in the wrong. And look, I was in the wrong, trying to pronounce your name the first time. Let's give it another roll as we welcome in Dom Luce Chichen. Oh, it was so close and then a complete train wreck at the end. What? Luce Chichen.

Chichen. Why do I feel like Joey Tribiani taking French lessons? Okay. Hey, listen. Let's, okay, listen. Let's, okay, listen. Before, yeah. Why don't we just? just get right into this because you got a flex here, my friend, because the hockey news came out with their like power rankings of the people in sports. And you didn't really care so much about your ranking number, only that you were ahead of a certain somebody, right? Not just ahead, on the list. I want to be known that my boss, James Myrtle, has lost all of his power. This was hinted at earlier in the week on Twitter when he tweeted one of his stupid

name puns and I had a little like battle with him and I won. So that sort of hinted at the power I have and apparently the hockey news agreed and had me on their lists for most powerful people in the media, which is still insane to me. And they referenced your Frank Ocean love as a key reason. Mm-hmm. Like, that was like the lead-off as to, you know, you're on this list. You know, Dom loves Frank Ocean. So he is very powerful.

I don't think Myrtle would probably love that. No. Maybe if he got better music taste, he might make next year's list. But it's the Frank Ocean crowd that is propelling me forward. Myrtle has this weird, and he's showed me because you guys know when that, you know, Spotify bot thing came out and it would look at all of the music you listen to. Myrtle's music was this really weird combination of like really scary like screamo music and like baby shark.

I actually knew you would say baby shark. I feel like Myrtle's a big baby shark guy. You got to have the balance. I mean his kids. No, no, he listens to it on his own. Let's let's be real. Sure. Ian rain it in.

Yeah, I got to rein this in from. You better jump in here. We're not. I was wishing we were going to talk about San Jose. That would have been a nice easy segue. But we don't have anything San Jose related. But here's my first question for you. As we wrap up January, Dom, there was no preseason this year.

There was very little to go on. So a lot of people were curious how the first month of the NHL season would play out. Is there anything from like a statistical, analytical perspective that is sort of jumped out at you in the first three weeks of the season and kind of surprised you? There are a few things. I feel like in this league nothing surprises me. If Ottawa started the season 10 and I would be like, oh, that's interesting. It's just a weird thing where in the NHL, as the season starts, weird stuff always happens. And you just have to adjust your expectations. I think for me, some more interesting teams are Montreal. They lead the league

in XG right now as everyone probably expected with their offseason. The fact that they're always up there. But what's interesting is that they're actually scoring just as much, which was always their problem. And now I think they're looking like one of, if not the best team in the North. And previously, I thought there was this gigantic gap between Toronto, the rest of the league or rest of the division. And Toronto, despite their record, has looked very unimpressive to start. Well, listen, Dom, you mentioned you wouldn't be, you'd be like, well, that's weird of Ottawa's 10 and O. And of course, it's the exact opposite. And we saw it play out on the weekend where they got pumped for eight goals.

It was the dry-sidal McDavid show. And they combined for 11 points. Here's my question for you, Dom. And I'm just going to use McDavid as the example here because he's leading the league in points with 22 and 11 games. Is there any possibility, Dom, that in a 56 game season, Connor McDavid can get to the 100-point plateau? Any chance? There is absolutely a chance. And before the season started, I think I had him projected for 83 or 84 points somewhere around there.

His normal projection in a regular season would be probably around 7980, but because he was playing in the Canadian division where defense is optional, he got a little boost because of that. And we've already seen that play out to start the season where he has 22 points in 11 games. He's dunking on every single team every night. it's been a real pleasure to watch. And because he already has 22 points in the bag and because I expect him to be a true talent, 130 point player over 82 games, if you do the math over the next 45,

he should get, I think, 72 or something like that. And that would put him just under the cutoff for 100, around 94-95 points. And based on how he started, it feels like that, is a bit low because I have no doubts that you can get there. So if, you know, you're a big kind of betting person and we've seen your, your friendship with the Minnesota Wild Blossom, I think, because of it. And we can get into that.

But if you are, you know, suggesting to someone like, here's a good line or here's something that you can put money on, like, is there something to be done on McDavid scoring a hundred points? It depends on what bookmakers will offer you. I don't think many are right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is something they do maybe in the future because it is such an interesting stat for him, especially in just a 56 game season. And I think my model has him a bit under. And that's probably the safer bet because as much as I would love McDavid to continue scoring at a 164 point pace over a full season. It's just, it's so hard to maintain over a full season, even if the defensive talent is so low. But I mean, if you play Daily Fantasy for whatever

reason, I'm sure you can just keep playing McDavid every night. You can, I think, bet on his point totals on a nightly basis. And I'm sure they're probably a little bit short with the way he's playing right now. So what is it about the Minnesota Wilde that makes them your favorite hockey team. And for anyone who doesn't know this, and for people who maybe don't follow Dom on Twitter, because as Myrtle said, you're stuck at like 40. I'm at 42. Haley, where are you right now?

We're not talking about this. I think Ian has us both beat in terms of followers. He's the old goat. But for people who don't follow, I'm sorry, Ian. For people who don't follow. Old goat, like you would say about like a Zedano Chara, like a goat, like girls. like greatest of all time. Like Tom Brady.

That's what I thought, yeah. No, like Tom Brady and Patrick Mahones, you got the old goat and the baby goat. That was a compliment. It's a nice save. I thought that's what you meant. I don't see those around Ottawa these days.

So, nice stuff. Anyways, Dom basically tweets about the Minnesota Wild being his best friend every single time they play. So what's going on here? Why do you love the Minnesota Wild so much?

basically there is a lot of people out there who think I'm biased towards the Leafs and they're my favorite team and the second part is true I grew up in Toronto. I'm not going to hide the fact that I like the Leafs but as I've grown older my my true favorite team is the ones that make me money because I am a degenerate gambler and the Leafs bring sadness, money does not and those are my favorite teams and so early on the season I had some comically large bets placed on the wild and they played the Kings, I think, to start the season and they were in a 3-1 hole. I was about to be crushed and then they made this epic comeback and won an overtime. And I don't know if you've ever bet Haley, but when you win and you win like

of that, it's a cause for celebration. I think it was, it might have been a weekend too, so there might have been some, I don't know how to put this. to be a PG-13. Some adult beverages that added to the excitement. And I think I was also tweeting. And for some reason, the Minnesota Wild Twitter account, who didn't follow me at the time, was also was like tweeting back at me. And then I said, because I was mad they were losing. And then they came back and I apologized for being mad.

And then a friendship started being boring because I said, if they win the next game, I'll follow them on Twitter. and they followed me as well. And then the same thing happened. They were down 3-1. They came back. They won an overtime. I won a lot of money. And then me and the Minnesota Wilde became best friends on Twitter.

I can't bet. I'm like the kind of better that I'll do like, oh, maybe I'll put like $20 or like $10. And then even if you win, like you don't get anything back. So it's just not the same. I'm not good at that kind of thing. I'll be better now with BetMGM. Well, yeah.

You know what, though, Haley? because what I would suggest you do is that every day, Dom puts together that kind of daily game probabilities page, which I think is fascinating. And maybe for our listeners here, Dom, can you walk us through, like, how you put that all together because, and, you know, you look at it. I know you weigh heavily the goal-tending matchups play a factor. But how do you put that thing together on a daily basis? And you're, I mean, there's games basically every. day. How are you putting this all together?

This is the easiest thing I do. This takes like 10 minutes every morning. I have a template that puts the chart together. And then I write like one sentence on each team because there are a lot of betting articles out there that will like wax poetic about all these different things. And that's just not the way I bet. If my model says bet this team, I will just do it. I'm not going to question things. I'm just going to trust the process. And that's basically the gist of it, my model generates game probabilities for every game. It already has that for the entire season set up. I just change who's playing that night, what goalies are starting, and then that puts a line out, and I compare that to the betting line. So if I think Pittsburgh

should be favored minus 125 tonight, which means bet 125 to win 100, and the odds makers think that the line should be minus 105, then there's an edge for me because I think penguins are more likely to win than odds makers are. But if, for example, it's minus 105 for penguins and I think the Rangers should be favored, then I would bet on Rangers instead. How much does the starting goalie decision factor in? Because there's some teams that don't tell you who's the starting, who's going to be the starting goalie until 30 minutes before puck drops. Does that have a huge impact for you? Yeah, those teams are the bane of my existence and I hate them. I have, like I know some people who are very good with projecting goalies and patterns and figuring all that out. So I usually

have a hunch about who's starting and I'll just go with it. And usually it's confirmed. Sometimes it's a nightmare and it's not. I think I remember I put a big bet on St. Louis earlier this year because I expected Devin Dubnick to start and he's probably the worst goal in the league. And they started Martin Jones instead, who is only one of the worst goalies in the league. So there was a huge difference between those two. And I think for me, it was the difference between St. Louis being like minus 220 and being minus 190. So there's a lot of value loss just from which goalie starts. And some teams there's no difference.

And some teams, the goalie decision will be a little different for me compared to the market. I think about people asking how much does Jake Allen starting hurt the Canadians on Saturday? I'm like, I think it probably helps them a little because Carrie Price's numbers have not been great. So there's some opposite opinions like that, but it usually plays a big role. Just looking at some of these probabilities, you know, in the projected standing. So you have your daily probabilities, but then you also have your NHL Stanley Cup playoff chances and projected standings that gets updated. I guess every night after the slate of games or every morning. And it's looking like, you know, at least when the North Division and the East Division are concerned, things are really, really tight.

What are you kind of seeing as, you know, the most interesting race, you know, that's going to be happening throughout the season and leading into the Stanley Cup playoffs? I feel like there are a few interesting races in every division. I think the North is probably the most interesting just because it's Canada being pitted against its state. self and the hot takes up here are extremely spicy when it involves hockey. I think Toronto versus Montreal is going to be a really interesting one. I've loved how Montreal's played so far and Toronto has been a bit disappointing. I think they can be better, but because of how they're playing right now, I'm a little higher on Montreal and I think that'll be an interesting battle for first or second. And then there's those three middle teams, I guess four if you think Vancouver

is still good. I think they're a little bit inflated right now from playing Ottawa a lot. I think Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton is going to be an interesting race for those last two spots. I'm really high on Edmonton because of how McDavid and Drysdale are playing. I know they're five and six, but I think they can be a lot better than they are. In the east, there's that three team like toss up between Philly, Pittsburgh, and Washington. I think Washington is playing much better than I initially expected, especially without four of their better players. And I think they went 3-0-1-1, something like that. And they're in the race.

I thought it'd be tighter between New York, New York, and even Buffalo. But they've been a bit disappointing to me. Well, Dom, listen, we'll leave it there. But we're going to let you determine out of this conversation today, who wears the crowns, Dom, Dumber, and Dumbest. Okay. That's not what we do. called it. We're going to need our producer, Chris, to roll the tape because it's not what we called

it. It's bothering me. But the original title, Haley, was Dom and Dumber. Yeah, but then I think I came back and said, why don't we make it dumb, dumb, and dumber? That sounds wrong. That just sounds wrong. Whatever. We're going to roll the tape back. We will see. Anyways, I know I'm probably the dumbest one here, so we don't even. I'm going to throw you guys a bone and I'm going to call call me the dumbest for for once uh i tweeted yesterday i thought it was a funny photo of connor mc david as the michael jordan mean of i and i took that personally because the last show i was on we were talking about player tiers and how mc david might not be in a tier of his own and i think that wasn't an uncommon opinion based on how nathan mckinan played in the playoffs and then mcdavid said okay i took offense to that

And he put up 22 points in 11 games and his 5 on 5 numbers are insane and his defensive numbers have improved. And he looks like the unquestionable best player in the world. So apologies to Conn Vic David, the Conn McDavid family, all Oilers fans, any hockey fan whatsoever who took any offense to that, I was wrong. But I had a feeling I would be wrong. I knew McDavid had this Jordan Gene in him. And I think someone asked me earlier this year because they were writing their own rankings. They're like, who did you take McKinnon or McDavid? I'm like, I kind of want you to say McKinnon because I want to see what McDavid will do when he sees that.

And this is what he's doing. Who's the Dom? It's not Ian because right off the start, he pronounced my name wrong. And I know Haley is golden for that. So Haley can be the Dom today. and Ian can be the dumber. Dumber. Okay.

Okay. Well, we'll leave it there once. I've moved up a ranking from our initial, initial episode. From the basement. Yeah, this was great. Hey, Dom, always, always love having you on the show. Thanks for, thanks for taking some time with us and enjoy the games this week. Yep, thanks for having me.

All right, Haley, did I, did I nail the pronunciation, Dom Luch-Chichen? Is that better? No. Come on. There's no luch. Luce Chishin. Loose Chishin. Yeah, something like that.

See, I, I, maybe Milan Luchich is in my head anyway. That was a great segment, as always, uh, with Dom, but we got them out of there so we could get to this, Haley.

It is multiple choice. Madness and we do it every Monday. Let's start with this as the calendar flips, uh, Haley to February. Uh, let's look back at the month of January. And we're going to hand out the heart trophy for the month of January.

Who deserves to be the NHL MVP, Haley, after the month of January here in 2021. Is it A, Nate McKinnon of the Colorado Avalanche, B, Connor McDavid of the Edmonton Oilers. I'm going to throw in a vote for Mark Stone. He's off to a terrific start with the Vegas Golden Knights, although they're on a pause.

Or D, you can go off the board. Maybe it's John Gibson. Maybe it's Leon Drysidal. Maybe it's somebody else. Haley, who deserves to be the league MVP after January? Yeah, well, I think maybe the most obvious choice for people when looking at the stat sheet would be Connor McDavid. I mean, 22 points in 11 games is pretty impressive and dry sidles, not too far off with 21 points.

But, you know, I'm going to go with Nathan McKinnon. I think that I personally thought that Nathan McKinnon should have won the heart trophy last season. I'm putting the stake in the ground on that one. I did vote for Nathan McKinnon. I just think that when you think of, you know, the heart trophy or the MVP, it's, you know, the player who brings, who's going to really just swing everything in favor. of your team, the Edmonton Oilers have McDavid and Dry Seidel. So I'm, I'm just a little bit more on the Nathan McKinnon train in terms of,

you know, the single impact that he brings to the team. Not saying that Connor McDavid doesn't bring an impact. I don't want people to start yelling at me, but I'm going to go with Nathan McKinnon. I thought he's had, you know, a great start. We did see him leave the game last night. But if we're just looking at the month of January, I guess before January 31st, Nathan McKinnon with two goals, but 12 assists in 10 games.

I'm going to go with Nate. You know what? You're going to get some Avalanche fans coming at you. What about Cail McCar? I don't call it a one-man crew in Colorado. I know. But listen, look, I'm just, I'm doing some preemptive warning for you. You know what, I'm going to give a vote to my pal, Mark Stone.

And I think it, and I, look, I understand Vegas is kind of on pause. But when you talk about like the one guy that can drive the team and you look at the offensive numbers from Stone, I'm with you, Haley. McDavid and. dry siddle. Sometimes you have a hard time picking the two. It's kind of like the new Crosby Malkin where they're so good that sometimes you have a hard time figuring out who's the better player. But I just think Mark Stone is so much better than everybody else in Vegas. He pulls that thing along. And I'm also going to say, I seriously consider John Gibson from Anaheim.

Like that guy has been unbelievable. So I think we're talking best goalie. I might go with him, although I think Markstrom's been great in Calgary too. But I'm going to give a vote to Mark Stone. question number two in multiple choice madness. We saw the unveiling of the reverse retro jerseys on the weekend. Haley, I want to know, do we think they should stay permanently in the rotation? A yes, B, no. I'll go first on this one. And, you know, I watched some of that Edmonton Toronto game on the weekend.

And I was with a lot of people. Like, I understood. Like, if you live in the province of Ontario, you know the whole fiasco with the license plates where you couldn't read the license plates. That's what it felt like with the Leafs jerseys. right? You couldn't quite read the numbering. But outside of that, I kind of didn't mind the look of it. And I, you know what the one I really like was the Minnesota Wild.

I love that they harken back to their old Minnesota North Stars days and they worked it in. So look, I think there's some bugs to be worked out with like reading the players numbers and the name bars in the back. That's stuff that can be fixed. But I liked it. I'll be honest with you. It's something different. It's something cool. So I say, yes, keep it in the rotation permanently.

What about you? Well, first I'm going to say before everyone yells at me about Kail McCar, I voted for him for the Calder last year. So you know what? That vote helped him win. I think Kail McCar is a great defenseman. So there's no need for anger on this Monday morning from Colorado Avalanche fans. You have good, good players.

Okay. I'm caving early. But in terms of the reverse retro jerseys, I think it depends which one we're talking about. I don't love the Toronto Maple Leafs ones. I agree with you. It gave me like PTSD of the license plates that just they lasted for what, like a month, two months before they took them off the road because they were so horrible. I don't think the Leafs jerseys are as bad as the license plates, but I don't love them.

I thought that the oilers ones with the orange pants, it's, you know, the whole look. It's cool. I do really like the reverse retro. I know some people were calling this just a marketing grab, you know, a way to sell more jerseys. But if they're cool jerseys, give me the marketing grab because the, you know, the Minnesota jerseys are awesome. I think half the world or half the hockey fans in the world finally realized like, oh my God, that's a bear. Did you not realize? I know. I don't know if it was what it was about the retro. But I think when that came out, like, there was a huge thing on Twitter

people would be like, that's a bear. Oh my God. I never realized. So that was a good one. I personally think the LA Kings one is gorgeous. I like the Arizona jersey. The islanders, I mean, just don't even do a verse retro because it looks the exact same as your regular kit. So that one I could do without. And not to be biased because I'm in Calgary, but I think Blasty is super, super cool.

I always get my dad like T-shirts or sweaters from the different hockey markets I work because he's a huge hockey fan. So I'm definitely going to be in the market for a blasty sweater because I just think that's so cool and unique. And definitely keep these around. I love them. You know what? I like the fact that you brought out that the wild people realize it was like, hey, that's a bear. It's almost like you, and I've never seen one of those magic eye things in my life.

You know, those posters you stare at and all of a sudden some shape or object appears out of nowhere. Maybe you're too young for that. But I have never in my life seen a magic eye thing. But I think that's what the wild reverse retro was. It's like that is this dress blue or gold? Oh my gosh. Yeah, or the Yanny Laurel audio debate. What do you hear when you see this?

Now it's, do you see the bear? Yeah. That's the Minnesota Wild jerseys. Yeah, 100%. Hey, question number three, multiple choice madness Monday, Haley. Again, let's wrap up the month of January in the National Hockey League. And I'm going to ask you, who would you say was the biggest surprise team in the opening month of the season? Now, that could be a good surprise.

It could be a bad surprise. I'm going to throw out four potential options here of teams that I think have either exceeded or not met expectations. Is it A, the Montreal Canadiens, B, the New York Rangers, see the Columbus Blue Jackets or the Florida Panthers. Haley, who's the biggest surprise team after the month of January? I'm going to be, you know, I'm just going to show my Canadian bias and say the Montreal Canadiens. I think there was so much hype around the Toronto Maple Leafs leading into the season with how deep the team was going to be. You know, this is the best team in the North Division. Is this the year where we can see the Leafs have some playoff success?

And I just think a lot of that hype kind of overlooked the depth of this Montreal Canadiens team. I think they arguably have the best goalie tandem in the league with Kerry Price and Jake Allen. They have, you know, I mean, four lines they can roll through. Obviously, their defense is great. I think Nick Suzuki is just a hell of a player. And, you know, some of those offseason moves that Mark Bergevan made, I mean, moving Max Domey and getting a guy like Josh Anderson, he's looked great. Tyler Tofoli's looked really good.

I just think the habs are, the habs are clicking along. And they lost their first game in regulation to, to the Calgary Flames on Saturday. And that was a game that Calgary was outchanced. I think Montreal was the better team on paper through three periods. But Jacob Markstrom stole that one. But like Montreal just, they look like a really, really good team right now. And I think that's been, you know, a big surprise just because of the hype around the Leafs just kind of overshadowed who the real best team in the North is, which is Montreal,

in my opinion. You know what, Haley, I'm going to say it's the New York Rangers for me. And it's not that I thought they were going to be a playoff team for sure. But when they added Lafranier and they had the breadman and they had Zabanajad and they had all these pieces, the one-two punch and goal with the young Russians, I thought, my goodness, it's all set for the Rangers to hit fast forward on the rebuild. And they've looked pretty flat to me coming out. Lafranier, to me, is a huge story too, just kind of being okay.

I know it was great to see him get that overtime goal. But he hasn't quite come in there and sort of had to be. some early season traction. And I really truly thought the Rangers were going to be a fun team to watch. They were going to be an entertaining team to watch. And they would at least maybe get in the conversation for a playoff spot. But after the month of January, at this stage of the game, it feels like it might be a little bit premature and they might not be able to hang with those teams like Pittsburgh and Washington

and Boston. All right. Hey, Haley, speak in Pittsburgh. They're looking for a new general manager. And that person is going to have a huge to do list coming up, including the fact that You've got one year left on deals for guys like Evgeny, Malkin, and Christopher Latang. And so my question to you is, if you look at the Penguins right now, they have the, I think it's the 29th ranked save percentage in the NHL. Casey DeSmith has struggled.

Tristan Jerry has struggled. Here's my question. Should the new Penguins general manager make an aggressive trade and try to bring back the flower? Mark Andre Fleury to Pittsburgh. A, yes. he's an immediate upgrade to the goalie position right now, or B, no, he's got another year on his contract that's going to cost you another $7 million, and it just won't work. Okay, I'll go first on this one. I say you do it.

And I think the interesting thing to me is right now, I feel like if Vegas had a game they had to win today, and I understand that they're on pause. If they had to win a game tonight, they might go to Marc Andre Fleury. Like, it's so crazy how that situation has gone back and forth between Lennar and, and, and Mark Andre Fleury. But if I'm the Penguins, and I'm looking at this team right now, and I'm thinking, we want to be a playoff contender and a Stanley Cup contender in the here and the now, while we have Malkin on our roster for this year and next, you need to upgrade that goal ten.

And if it's Mark Andre Fleury, I think that's great. There would be a familiarity and a comfort level with a lot of those guys in the room, like Letang, like Malkin, like Sid. But I just think they got to do something. So yes, I would say new GM in Pittsburgh, go out there, do something splashy, try to bring the flower back. What about you? Yeah, you know what?

I think the cap hit is one big, big piece of it. So I agree with everything that you just said, but maybe the play is to wait until that, that, you know, he's got one year left at seven million. I don't know if there's a way that the penguins can, you know,

it's difficult because it's not like the Vegas goldenites are brimming with cap space to say, we'll retain 50% of the salary. I mean, that would 50% would be less than the seven million. And that could free up some space. but it's a difficult one, you know, because he does cost a pretty penny, but, you know, I was going to disagree with you, but I just can't.

I can't bring myself to disagree with you because I think the impact that bringing Mark Andre Fleury back to Pittsburgh would have on the Pittsburgh fan base, he was beloved in Pittsburgh and he still is. Every time he's back, it's a huge story and it's not, it doesn't have the same, you know, Eric Carlson comes back to Ottawa and it's, you know, fans love him, but there's, like that kind of a bit of a complicated past. Like, you know, there's lots of stuff to get into with the Carlson return, with a stone return.

When Mark Andre Fleury returns, there's nothing but just the love from the fan base. They just, they love him. And I think a lot of that was one of the reasons why fans weren't very keen on Matt Murray because they obviously protected Matt Murray over Mark Andre Fleury. And he kind of got the brunt of the upset fan base. So bringing back a guy like Flower would just be huge for Puck. Pittsburgh Penguins fans, I think they would probably overlook the cap hit to have him back. So I guess I'll agree with you.

I can't say no. At this stage of the game, I don't think there's a lot of bias or remorse or regret in Pittsburgh that they let Matt Murray go and kept Tristan Jari and Casey DeSmith. Because at this stage of the game, you know, Murray's safe percentages hovering around 850 and certainly, you know, it doesn't feel like his game is where it was a couple of years ago. Okay, fifth and final question, Haley, multiple choice madness here. first one of the month of February. So after January wrapped up, we were getting a better idea of who's a legitimate contender.

Which division, Haley, do you think is going to have the most compelling and interesting race for first place in the months ahead? Is it A, the North Division, and I'm not going to use the sponsor names, just to keep this going, okay? So the North Division between Montreal and Toronto, and if you want to throw Calgary in there, by all means, or another team, by all means, throw that in there. B, the East Division, you've got a great race right now between Washington and Philly, and they look, their rearview mirror. There's Boston, there's Pittsburgh. That West Division looks so good, too, with Colorado, Vegas, and St. Louis. And there's Central Division. There's Tampa,

there's Dallas. Don't sleep on Carolina either. They're a pretty fun team. They've had some success. So, Haley, what's going to be the most compelling, interesting race for first place this season? I'm going to say the East Division, and I just think that when you look at those four teams,

I mean, that's classic Eastern Conference. Just how many times have we been going down the stretch of the end of the season. And it's Washington, it's Boston, it's Pittsburgh. You know, the flyers have certainly been on the come up. And we saw a really great flyers team in the bubble last year. Washington's a really interesting case. You know, we saw Zadano Char get his first goal with the capitals last week. And I mean, I think I tweeted it like, I need that energy in my life. We're in what feels like year five of staying inside all the time and seeing the excitement for Zadato Char, I was like, I could use some of that positivity.

But, you know, I just think that the East is very reminiscent of a typical down the stretch, kind of heated playoff race as the Eastern Conference. And as much as I love the North Division and the divisional realignment, there's just something so classic about watching Sidney Crosby and the Penguins, Alex Ovechkin and the capitals, you know, the guys on Boston and Philly all battling for the top of that. spot. So I think that's going to be one to watch. Yeah, that Chara goal in the celebration was, it almost got me thinking, imagine if he scores a goal that actually matters in the playoffs. Like, it's going to be insanity for Zedaino Chara.

Yeah, it was, it was great to see. Okay, I'm going to answer that question. And I'm going to say, I'm going to, maybe this is going to be a boring answer because I'm going to stick with the North Division, because I think the fact that these are the iconic franchises and the fact that there are legitimate Stanley Cup expectations on the shoulders of the Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens have kind of moved in as the flavor of the week. This is going to be great. And I think we saw it opening night, Haley, a few weeks ago. When they played each other, it was fast-paced, it was entertaining.

I just can't wait for those games to even take on more meaning and value down the stretch. And I just think that the – I can't even think of the last time that those two original six teams played like legit, meaningful games. down the stretch. I think we're going to get that this year. So I'm going to say it's that one, but I agree with you. I think that's going to be a great race in the east. As we always do, Haley, we wrap up the show by going to the hailbag. We got some questions fired over to us on Twitter. So a reminder, you can always email us as well. The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. The athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Or you can always tweet at us as well. Both of us have an

underscore in between our first and last names because we couldn't lock down our names as handles for some reason back in the day. So here we go. Here we go. Oh, we're opening the hail bag, Haley. This one comes in from Hannah. And I think this is interesting because you and I have the,

I'm going to use the word privilege. You and I have had the privilege of being inside some NHL arenas this season to watch games. And so we have some fans that are curious like Hannah who wants to know, hey, what sounds can the players hear, on the ice besides the goal horns and the whistle. On television, we can hear crowds cheering, goal songs, etc.

Occasionally we see a video wall of fans. Is that only inserted in for the television viewers or do the players in the arena hear this stuff too? So what are you, what's your experience been like in Calgary, Haley? Yes, with the Saddle Dome, it was, it was interesting because even for the intra-squad scrimmage, they did the full pre-game show. They have the fire going for the flames.

they had the crowd noise pumping in, they had the music and everything. And I think it was a lot louder at the start of the season. And I don't know if maybe like a media member said something like, hey, it's a little bit loud. Can we turn down the like really aggressively loud fan noise? Because that noise is a little bit quieter now because in Calgary there are no fans. They're, you know,

none of the Canadian teams are teams that have a small amount of fans allowed in the building. So yeah, that's not just for television. There was a couple of times where the fan wall actually did come up on the Jumbotron. So the players, you know, we don't know exactly how much they tune out when they're actually on ice level. They're playing. I don't know if they actually pay attention to that. But from the press box, there's the crowd noise. There was the fan wall.

There's, you know, kind of everything, you know, put together for the production of it. I do think it's interesting because I don't know if it comes through on the broadcast. But in the building, we can still hear some of, you know, you can hear the coach yelling. You can hear a guy calling for the puck with the flames. There was a really great goal that Dylan Dubey scored, you know, in the first week of the season on a nice little, you know, back pass, back, no look pass from Andrew Mangupani. And you could just hear Dillon Dubey screaming for the puck from the press box over the crowd noise. I don't know if that comes through on TV. But that's actually, it's pretty cool to be able to hear.

things from ice level that you normally wouldn't. I know in Ottawa, it doesn't matter how many people are in the building. Like you can hear DJ Smith because he's so loud. So I'm sure you can hear a lot more in Ottawa, Ian. Yeah. No, my favorite thing this season, Haley, from watching a game, was opening weekend, Ottawa, Toronto. And they had the noise meter on the Jumbotron,

where they were encouraging people to make noise. It's like, ah, there's nobody in here. But it's true, you can hear the pumped in crowd noise. they play it. So when there's a big save, there's like ooze and ahs, and there's a big hit, same type of thing.

It is kind of weird, but it's something that we're getting used to. Hey, listen, we're going to sneak one more question, Haley, into the hail bag here. And you actually brought up his name, so it's a perfect segue into this, and it's about Dylan Dubet.

And he was involved in quite a controversial hit over the weekend. And Raphael has tweeted at us, wondering, what are your thoughts on the Dubay hit on Yesperi Kutkenemi? and the fact that the Department of Player Safety did not suspend the flames forward. So I understand, look, like because you watch this

and you cover the flames, you probably have a very, you know, specific way that you watch that play unfold and you probably watched it with much more scrutiny than the average fan would have watched. So walk us through here, Haley, did the NHL's Department of Player Safety miss one here, Dubay on Kotkenyemi?

Yeah, so it's a tough. one because you're watching, watching the hit on first glance and listening to the broadcast is a big one too. And, you know, I think that you could hear the ref kind of, you know, I saw on Twitter and I saw some replays of people say, I think from the ref's angle, they thought the contact was kind of the collarbone chest area. But of course, when you start watching that clip back more and more, you can see that Dubay starts to leave his feet. He starts to leave his feet. He starts to leave his feet, he hits upwards with his arms, and the contact was with the head. You know, in my initial tweet, I was just trying to get something out. And I just said, you know, Dylan Dube hits Yes,

very cockney on me pretty high here. Because you're watching the broadcast, you're hearing them say, no, no call. The game's going on. You're hearing that the ref is saying it's in the chest. So you're like, okay, he hits him pretty high. And then you watch it back and you're like, well, that's clearly contact to the head. Now, there is some parts of that hit, you know, when you're kind of watching it. You see Cockneyami is he has his back turned. He has his head down. He doesn't see Dube coming. Dubay goes and Dubay's a short player. I don't have it right in front of me, but Dubay is not tall, especially compared to Yes, Barry Cochneumee. So I think Dube starts to leave his feet because he is so small that he wants to make sure he's making, you know, he's, he's finishing his

check. I mean, you're not supposed to leave your feet aggressively. But you see him go up because he's so short. So he's always going to be hitting up. But then Cockney Emmy doesn't fully get up. And you see him kind of turn and he's crouched down as he's starting his stride. And so Cockney Ami is down and Dube is hitting up. So all that contact, you can see his head whip back. You can see him go down. Obviously the Canadians didn't like the hit. But the play went on. So it was very strange. and we haven't heard anything from from NHL player safety and I just think there are major questions around you know what's a headshot in this league anymore and what's what deserves a suspension you know I I said on Twitter he hits him pretty high but I would have thought that Dubay would have gotten one or

two games I think you know he maybe got off because he doesn't have a prior history of suspension he doesn't have a history of being a dirty player or hitting guys high. So maybe that helped him out a little bit. But you know, you just look at things like that. And it's just, you know, who are we protecting anymore? And why do we keep talking about headshots and then seeing these things and not calling anything? It's just, I don't know.

I don't know how to answer that question because it's just we've seen worse too. That's the worst part. Like you watch the dube hit and you're like, that's not even the worst. not suspended or not penalized headshot that we've seen. So it's just not even shocking anymore. Exactly. And I think as we wrap up this show, I think it would be great if they went to a zero tolerance policy,

almost like in the NFL where you can't even sneeze near a quarterback. And you're going to like, it's better to just go with that type of policy rather than having this huge gray area. To me, just crack down. If it's anywhere near the player's head, I'm sorry, that's it. It's a suspension and you got to weed it out of the game that way. All right, Haley, this was a jam-pack, action-packed February, first February edition of the show.

Listen, enjoy the week. I know you've got some fun, exciting stuff coming up around the Calgary Flames. So listen, have a great week and we'll get you again on Monday. Yeah, thanks, Ian. All right, Haley. Listen, you have a great week. And a big thank you to everybody listening to the Athletic Hockey Show here. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.

Leave us a rating and review. We would certainly appreciate it. that. And if you want to subscribe to the Athletic, you can get an annual subscription for just $3.99 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Don't miss out. Scott Burnside, Pierre LeBron. We'll have a brand new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show on Wednesday, and I'll be back at it on Thursday with Sean Nack.