The Athletic Hockey Show - Top 10 John Tortorella media moments

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

John Tortorella is out as head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, fired at the end of last week and replaced on an interim basis by Brad Shaw. On today’s episode, Max and Laz power-rank 10 of Torts�� classic media moments and discuss if this will have been his last shot behind an NHL bench. First, the guys break down which trade deadline acquisitions have fit in nicely on their new teams and which have not. And, with nine games left and five goals to go, will Alex Ovechkin break Wayne Gretzky’s all-time record this season?Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. This episode presented by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. We got something fun planned for later, Laz, as it pertains to John Tortorella. But I want to start today talking about which trade deadline acquisitions have gotten off to the best start to fit in best, really, with their new teams. We've had about three weeks of sample size, so some more time still for the playoffs arrive. And that, of course, is when we're really going to judge these moves. But let's just start kind of broad.

If we start the deadline at the first Rantinand Trade, Colorado and Carolina market, which acquisition have you liked best through the first three weeks with their new team? Or I guess it could be longer if you're starting earlier. Well, I think it's telling that you have to dig a little bit here. Like there's no overt winners here. A lot of the guys we thought would click immediately have not. A lot of guys have been pretty poor with their new teams. And there's just a lot of mediocrity going on right now.

I think you have to go all the way back to that first Rantin and trade and look at Marty Naches because look, Marty Natchez is not Miko Ranton. I don't want to, you know, make that statement that that he's replaced Miko Ranton. But he's got what? He's got 10 goals and 15 assists in 25 games. He's been a point to game guy. He has played great whether he's been on Nathan McKinnon's line or whether he's been with Brock Nelson since the trade deadline. He's got the speed to keep up with Carolina with Colorado and, you know, hey,

there's 17, 7 and 1 since that trade. Marty Natchez has done a really nice job filling in for a future Hall of Famer. And I think that's oddly enough, the best acquisition that's been made. I mean, really, if you could zoom it out and just make this basically all of Colorado's moves, right? Because another candidate is Brock Nelson, who's been really good since getting to Colorado as well. I think he's also right around a point per game so far there. I lost him on my sheet here. But he's had three goals and five assists in 11 games, but he's been coming on lately.

Yeah. So he's been hotter lately. He's picking up. I think he's the exact right fit. I mean, we mentioned him, I think, in that very first. first podcast episode that we did. I think we had Peter on and we talked about, you know, what does Colorado have to do to make this a win? And part of it obviously was about nature, but part of it was about what do you do with the cap space you freed up. And Nelson was one of

the first names that got thrown out as a guy who you could, hey, if you can take this cap space, go get a guy like that. That's going to make you a much better, deeper team. That's happened. So I think Colorado as a whole is probably the happiest team here. What about, though, Mikhail Granland in Dallas because that's a smaller move. It's not the same scope magnitude of the NACIS and Renton and Swap. But that's been a nice savvy ad for a team that needs just that that exact kind of player, that exact kind of depth scoring. Yeah, it's kind of like the Nelson trade where like, you know, we were right.

Everybody was right that the call, what do the Colorado Avalanche need? They need a second line center. Who's the best one available? It's Brock Nelson. He comes in and it just works. You know, we do our all 32s where we kind of. of break down the league from team to team. I do our Dallas Star stuff. And early on, it was, who should they go in and get? It was Mikhail Granlin. He was the guy. He just seemed like the

perfect fit for that team. He's having a career season. He's come over from San Jose and he's been, you know, pretty much a point to game guy there too. He's just, he's got, what, six goals and 12 assists. He's just playing a nice role that depth scoring that all the great teams eat. He lengthens that forward group, which was already so good. And when, you know, Sagan's back in there and you bring in Ranton in, all of a sudden, it's like, oh my God, you got like three power. lines to deal with as an opposing team. And they're going to get Colorado in the first round. So it's going to be really interesting to watch how these two teams match up. Yeah, I mean, you could also throw rant and for Dallas in there, right? He's been pretty effective since getting

to Dallas. So really the two teams that probably changed their makeup and identity the most at this deadline could square off in the first round. One of them's going to look smart and one of them's going to be extremely heartbroken at the end of that. I will say this though, as I think when we do this, we're going to measure a lot of these by what happens in the playoffs. Right. Like there's some guys that we're going to get to a little bit later that, that have not gotten off to Roaring starts with their new teams. But if they win a playoff round or two and our difference makers, we're going to talk about them as being home run acquisitions.

If we did this two years from now, looking back, I can tell you which one I think is going to be the home run acquisition. And that's Dylan Cousins in Ottawa. Yeah, I mean, when that trade was made, we were all kind of looking to scans at Buffalo. Like, you're sure about this one? You're going to take an injury prone guy for a guy with a higher ceiling, and then sure enough, Josh Norris has hurt,

and Dylan Cousins is playing great in Ottawa. It's like sometimes you're on the outside of these things. You're like, this seems so obvious and then you look stupid. But this year it seems like all the things we thought we were right about, we turned up to be right about. Like, you know, there's such obvious fits and there's such obvious portrays. And it doesn't make, you know, making a move for the sake of making a move just because things are bad in Buffalo, that kind of, that's kind of what this felt like.

And it didn't make them any better now. And it's not going to make them any better in the future. but for Ottawa, it's really kind of crystallized that lineup. Like Dylan Cousins, he's, what, three goals, six assists in 11 games. He's making a difference. And he's an impact player immediately. And we all know what that guy's ceiling is. Like he's just scratching the surface.

So that's, you know, like you said, a couple of years from now, we'll be looking back at that and going up, that's the Sabres being the Sabres. Yeah, I mean, with Josh Norris, what you were getting for Buffalo is you were getting a player who was a better finisher than Dylan Cousins has been so far in Norris. But the key is when he's on the ice. he's just very rarely on the ice enough to really feel good about that swap. I think he's played 60 games once in his NHL career has Josh Norris. And obviously, we hope that that changes and we hope that goes better in Buffalo than it has for him so far.

But it's not off to a super encouraging start. Right. And that's concerning. All of this gets lumped into the history with Buffalo trading away centers and how that's gone for them. And I don't want to just pile on for Buffalo there. right? And I will say they had a, what I think is a looking like a really great trade this past summer that they took a ton of shit for the Savoy and Ryan McLeod deal. And McLeod has been excellent for them. So that looks like a win for the same. It's like I, Savoy can become a really, really good player. I don't think it even matters at this point. McLeod is exactly the kind of player they were lacking. He's been it right away. He's been really good. So that's good. I just don't, I don't see it going Buffalo's way on this Norris for Cousin's deal, partly because with the surrounding players that they have in Ottawa, Cousins looks like the version of himself that you've wanted him to be all year and into last year a little bit as well for Cousins. Like it's just the right, the right fit, the right surroundings for him. Right.

No, and I think a lot of the times at the trade deadline, we're looking for, you know, periphery moves, guys that kind of slide in and make a difference in 12 minutes a night, guys that can really fit in a system really well. So, you know, beyond the Rantanins and Natchez and Cous and Cousins of the world, you got to look at someone like Brandon Tanev, right? Like Winnipeg is this really good team, but we're just questioning whether. they're, you know, playoff ready, whether they can really do it when it counts. And here comes Brandon Tanev. He's, you know, a simple acquisition. He's playing in the bottom six. He's got a goal in three assists in nine games.

He's producing a little bit of depth scoring. He's got a 73.18 expected goals percentage right now. He just fits that lineup like a glove. He's just one of those depth players. This is what we see year after year after year. It's not the major names that really make the difference. It's the bottom six guys, the defensive forwards, the third pairing defenseman who can give you good,

minutes and, you know, kill some penalties. Those are the guys that really make a difference. I always go back to something Mike Babcock said 100 years ago when the Red Wings and the Blackhawks from the Plex. Once you get to like the second round of the playoffs, every single team has two really good lines. It's that third and fourth line that really make the difference. And we've seen that in the past with like, you know, the Barclay Good Row type additions.

And Brandon Tanna is just one of those guys. He just kind of goes about his business and he's been very, very effective so far for Winnipeg. How about Brandon Carlo in Toronto as a guy? Maybe we're not over the moon about it yet, but I think he's been good there. And I think especially the way the bracket looks right now. And that could change in a hurry, right? The top of the Atlantic is a straight fight.

You know, Leifser have the one seed in that division right now by a point over Tampa and Florida. Obviously, that can move over the final nine games. But if they do stay there and they get Ottawa in the first round, Brandon Carl is the exact type of defenseman that they're going to need to withstand the Ottawa forecheck. Absolutely. I mean, again, not a high profile guy. It wasn't the sexiest trade. It's like the Jake Wallman Edmonton trade, right?

Jake Wallman, a really nice player who has been a very nice fit in Edmonton. He can play 20 minutes tonight. He's got the big shot. He's chipping in some assists here and there. He's a positive player at five on five. These are the guys that make the difference once you get to, you know, there's just a stage of the playoffs. So once you get past that first round, every team's a really good team.

And this year, you know, there's six or seven teams in each conference that are really good teams that aren't separated by much. And it's those little good, those guys that you don't think about. that really make a difference. Which just makes me think that by the time the playoffs start, it's going to be Gord and Bjork Strand and Tampa, because they are the kings of that, as you alluded, right? It's the Barkley-Grodrow. It's the Blake Coleman.

Bjork Strand has not been great with Tampa since coming. He's got three goals and 12 games. Gord's got, you know, he's got eight assists in 12 games. He's playing a nice game. But these guys aren't stepping in like gangbusters, but you're right. There does seem to be something about Tampa where once it really matters, guys like that become world viewers.

All right, so that's one half of it. That's the good. There is another half. And again, we will reserve final judgment on some of these until the playoffs. But as things stand today, Laz, there are also some of these that are already looking like, I don't think this is panning out quite the way this team foresaw. One of them is a guy you know pretty well. Seth Jones in Florida has not been an overwhelming success here so far.

No, and look, he's got five years for this trade to justify it. I mean, they gave up a very good young goalie in Spencer Knight. And the Blackhawks didn't have to retain all that much salary. That was a huge win of a trade for the Blackhawks, even though they got worse in the process. Seth Jones is very good. He's going to be very good. But with Eckblad out, you know,

Jones has had to play a larger role than maybe they wanted him to. I think he's a great number three. He's like a pretty good number two. He's like an overmatch number one. But the results have not been great so far. I think he's been outscored eight to four at five on five when he's been on the ice. And he's not producing a whole lot. He's got like a handful of points.

He's adjusting. You know, he wanted to go, there's a lot on Seth Jones here, right? And his reputation is at stake here because when you go out and you say, this team's not good enough for me, I'm better than this and I don't want to deal with this, you put yourself out there that, look, I can be a difference maker on a good team. Well, he went to the best team in the league, the defending champions, the two-time defending finalists. And if he can't hack it there, it's like the last kind of nail in the coffin of his reputation, right?

Because this was a young stud not that long ago, a four-time all-suffing. star and his reputation took a hit in Chicago. He's 29 years old, I think. He needs to prove that he can be a difference maker on a good team right now. And again, like you said, he very well might be excellent in the playoffs and we're not talking about this in this fashion anymore. I think very highly of Seth Jones. I think that he gets a lot of flack unfairly. But the fact of the matter is he put himself in this position by asking his way out. I mean, the way the Blackhawks veterans now allude to him, like Nick Falino talking about weeding guys out

that don't want to be here, that aren't tough enough for this, or however they phrase it, like, it's not just schmucks like us on podcast talking about them. It's players within the NHL are looking at Seth Jones, like, all right, got what you wanted, man, now let's see what you do. So I think that his start

has not been promising, and he has a lot writing on these playoffs. But there is some rhyme to that in another situation that has turned around pretty quickly, albeit it took another change of scenery, but a lot of what you're saying just there, shades of Pierre-Luc Dubois, multiple times really,

but especially in LA, leaving Winnipeg going to LA, he's just not that guy for the Kings. Dubois was never at the level that I feel like Seth Jones was, or at least thought, like Dubois was a high pick who should have been more.

But Jones has been that guy, I feel like he was a, but he was a 60-point center in Columbus, 60-point center in Winnipeg. Like, he was a good player. and he gets to L.A. And it took a dive, right? And you're going, oh, gosh, they gave him how much money.

Now he gets to Washington. Now he's the number one center on a good team. Things are going really well there. And if he did that at the deadline last year, I don't know that it would have turned around all that fast. So I'm not, to your point, you're not writing off Seth Jones. I'm not right enough, Seth Jones. I do just think there's a little bit of rhyme in those two scenarios.

You have to scale it for trade deadline acquisitions. It's by far the toughest to be a goalie traded at the deadline to work behind an entirely new system. After that, it's tougher for a defenseman. And then for forwards, it's pretty easy. Like forwards, you can kind of plug and play. They can figure it out very quickly. But defensemen, a lot of it is based on communication and positioning and knowing your partner.

You know, it's so much more, like for a defenseman to understand what his partner's going to do is so much more important than for a forward or a winger to know what the center is going to do. So you have to give them a little bit of grace. It's only been, what, a dozen games. But, you know, playoffs are fast approaching. You've got to figure it out. That's a good point. I mean, the first two or three names we said in the first segment, the good, we're, forwards and I think all winners, right?

So yeah, that is a very, very astute point. Who else is kind of underwhelmed a little bit for you? Hard not to look. Just we talked to Carlo earlier, hard not to look at Scott Lawton, right? As a guy who's not giving you quite as much as you would have hoped. But another guy who I think in the playoffs, that's where you're going to measure Scott Lawton's impact. Well, right.

I mean, we all look at, oh, what a great acquisition that is for the leaves. He's exactly what they need. Well, I mean, you know, they're playing as we record this on Sunday night, but they've been outscored eight to three with him on the ice. he's got like a 36 expected goals here. Like he's just not performing at a very high level for Toronto right now. And again, a guy that's just made for the playoffs, I think, he should be fine. But, you know, if he's not, it's complete utter disaster for a team that knows that well in the postseason.

Gustav Nyquist would be another one. I mean, a guy who had just a tremendous season a year ago for Nashville, you're hoping when they make that deal, all right? It was a quieter year for him. He's 35. There's always the chance that it's the cliff. but you're hoping it's just the malaise of Nashville. He gets to Minnesota, not a whole lot better, if better at all. No goals, three assists in like 14 games, something like that.

Like, it's been bad. And, you know, that's, that when they made that trade, it's like, is this all you're going to do, Minnesota? Is this the guy? This is the guy that's going to resurrect kind of this flagging team while, you know, Carilla Caprizov's on the sideline. And boy, like, don't look now, but St. Louis is going to pass Minnesota at this point. Like, Minnesota's fighting for a wild card spot all of a sudden. This is a team that halfway through the season was, you know,

we're talking about Caprizov for the heart, and they're, you know, battling for first place. And now it's just holding on for dear life. It's just yet another Minnesota wild season. Yeah. And to me, the wild are a team that I don't think we're going to crush for this trade. It wasn't super expensive to go get Gustav Nyquist. I don't think we had the highest of expectations for the wild anyway.

way, but you do just, you never know until the Caprizov situation is resolved. You never know how many kicks at the can you're going to get with him specifically. And I think that's where the stakes come in with the wild, even with all they've been up against with the cap hits on Souter and Porese and the dead money there. Like, I don't think any of us are holding the wild to the same standard. We're going to hold the Edmonton Oilers to, for example. No, but, but it wasn't sufficient. Like the move they made, we all knew they needed offense and they didn't get enough offense.

Like, you know, are they going for it or are they not? And, you know, I get in trouble when I talk about Caprizo on this podcast, but, you know, he's got one year left on his current contract. And, you know, you need to surround him with as much talent as possible now and in the near future to make him want to stay. And, you know, he's, he's one of the best players in the world, but he can't do it all by himself. And that's kind of been the story of the Minnesota while. Like, you know, they, you know, before it was they didn't have a star. Now they still have a star, but they don't have anyone around him that can really play at his level. and stars need other stars to play off of.

And, you know, I feel bad for a while, fans because that's such a great fan base and it's such a boring team. Year after year after year, they just get mediocrity. Like they're good enough to make the playoffs, but nobody ever thinks they're going to win around, let alone two. And it's just, you know, they're on this like hamster wheel of death, just running in place forever. I really think it's coming there. I mean, you look at the young players they have. Keeping Caprice off is essential to it, right? Yes.

You can keep him. You got that superstar. at the top. But then you look at what the supporting cast has become. Brock Faber, excellent. Matt Boldie, excellent. Zee, William on the way, going to be excellent. Joel Ericksonek. There may not be a better number two center in the NHL than Joel Eric Sineck. You just want to slot him there ideally. He can be your number one. He's good enough to be a number one center, but you'll love him as your number two center. This is a team that I would love to see find a way to bring in a splashy offseason at its center.

It's just you have to do it in a way that allows you to also keep Caprize off. but I think it's coming in Minnesota. I really do. I hope you're right. They have dealt with, you know, and almost in all sports, really, they've dealt with it long enough. Yeah.

How about, you know, you talked earlier about those depth additions for the real contenders. And one of the teams I was very eager to see what they would do is the Washington Capitals because they've been the surprise team in the NHL this season.

Looks like they're going to be the one seed in the Eastern Conference. One of their moves at the deadline, Anthony Bovillier, player I like, fits that profile of a depth score, How do you grade him, Bovillier out here? He's been fine.

He's been relatively productive. You know, you don't expect him to be a point of game guy. This is, you know, Beauvilliers' career, the last couple of years, he's bounced around so much. We don't really know what he is anymore. You know, when he got traded to, when he was with the Islanders, he was sort of a top six guy. He was kind of knocking on the ceiling of that. And then, you know, he's bounced around to so many teams now that we don't really know what he has left. He's been a nice little addition.

Like, he's not, again, not a huge difference maker. I don't know if he's a playoff kind of guy. he's not that scrappy really although he's got one of the biggest goals in Islanders history obviously would you know so I mean he's proven and he can perform at that level he's been a nice addition I mean I would have liked to have seen the capitals do a little bit more

just because like you know I get maybe it's a team that they didn't want to like look we've got like this perfect chemistry going on that we don't want to need you know add a big piece or a big personality I don't know but I still like I look at the east and the caps are not the team that I look at when I think that's you know the best teams in that in that conference, which is unfair because they've proven all season that they are.

But I'm just, I can't help the skepticism. I do think Bavillia is a playoff guy. I mean, I kind of fell in love with him during those Islander runs where everyone in hockey media wanted those guys out because they were, you know, the anti-analytic's team and they were quote unquote boring, all the whining about having to watch the islanders play. I adored watching those Islander teams just muck it up and take the Tampa Bay lightning within an inch of eliminating them in game seven.

I mean, that was just an outstanding series. And Bovilliate was consistently a guy who stood out to me. So I like that addition. But in Washington. It's funny when the Blackhawks acquired a Beauvillier last year, and I was just tweeting about it and whatever, some quotes. And I noticed that all these Islanders fans were in my mentions all of a sudden. Like, where are these people coming from?

They love this guy. And I didn't put two and two together because sometimes you just kind of get, you know, the blinders on. you're thinking Blackhawks, Blackhawks, Blackhawks. And I go to him the next day, we're on the road, so I'm like Columbus or something. I'm like, man, Islanders fans really love. He goes, yeah, I scored a big one over there.

That's got to be great to just live with for the rest of your life. Yeah, he'll always be a hero there. He'll love me forever for that one. So that's pretty good. Yeah, I scored a big one over there. You know who scored a big one, Las? It's Alexander Ovechkin. He's at 890 now, four away from tying Wayne Gretzky,

five away from sole possession of the NHL's all-time goals record. He's got nine games left this season. The athletics official betting partner, Bet MGM has the lines on minus 120 for yes, he does it this season, minus 105 for no, he does not do it this season. If you wanted to get real weird,

even strength minus 220, power play 165, short-handed plus 500 odds. If you're plus, sorry, plus 5,000 odds. You want to bet OV to break the record. MD net's probably like minus 1,000 or something. I wouldn't advise taking the short-handed one.

just saying, but basically a coin flip, yes or no, for those odds here. And I think the best case scenario is that he scores it against Pittsburgh, but do you think he does it at all here this season, nine games to get it five away? I mean, that's like the pace he's scoring it, right? Like, it's really cutting it close here. I hope he does because I kind of don't want to have this hanging over the entire summer and all the hype and training camp. I just let's just do it.

Let's get it done now while all this momentum behind it. I think he does. I mean, obviously Alex Ovechkin has quite a flare for the dramatic. And I feel like his teammates are going, because these games don't really matter all that much to Washington. They're so far ahead that they're going to be forcefeeding him a little bit and, you know, making sure he's playing all two minutes on the power play. Oh, God, he's been doing that for 20 years. But he'll be out there for every MD net situation, which he's also been doing for 20 years. But I feel like they're going to do everything possible to get him those five goals before the end of the season.

I think everybody at this point just wants to see it. You know, it's been a long, all year long hype train to it. Like, let's get there. It's inevitable. It's going to happen, regardless of how you feel about Alex Ovechkin, this is going to happen and it's going to be a big moment. And God, I got to think Wayne Gretke wants him to do it, right? He doesn't want to follow him around next year, too.

Yeah. No, I mean, the amount of offseason talk it would garner could be good for the league, honestly. But I don't want to spend the entire summer on this podcast doing that. Let's be honest. I think the fact that it's coming up to the end of the season, actually made it more interesting than just the inevitability of this, if this were October and he was five away. I don't know that I'm as locked into it. I was even looking later today, you know, I was trying to figure out, okay, who can he score against rest of the way? Their next

games against Boston. I think I like him to score against Boston. Later, later next week, he gets Chicago. I think I like him to score against Chicago. They got the Islanders two more times and the Blue Jackets two more times. So I guess if you can bet the opponent, you probably want to bet Blue Jackets or Islanders because he's going to get more opportunities against them. But I think, you know, you can score one each against the Islanders and Blue Jackets, and then you put the nail on the coffin in Pittsburgh. It's a perfect story. Yeah, the Islanders and Blue Jackets give up lots of goals too.

So that's, yeah, the goaltending there has been a little dicey lately. But yeah, you're right about the ticking clock aspect of this, right? It's made it so much more interesting because we all know he's going to get it. But it does somehow feel like there's some urgency to it. Because, again, nobody wants to go through the whole summer. So the ticking clock aspect has probably made this more. It's silly to say that chasing the all-time goals record isn't interesting. but it's made it kind of more compelling

knowing that he's only he's only got nine games left you better hurry up oh, he didn't score tonight, oh, he might not get there. It's made it a much more interesting chase than it otherwise would have been. Right, because, you know, when you think about the home run record in baseball when Barry Bonds was chasing that,

at least that's like, okay, he's only going to get four at bats a game. So you better cut away to it every time he's at the plate because it's going to be this. You can't do that knock. You can't just be cutting away to every Ovechkin's shift. That would be a ridiculous way to try to broadcast. Although I don't doubt some,

but he will try to do it. I think that urgency has made it a little more must-watch feel. I don't know what the plan is. Like, when he gets to 893 or 894, does every game the Capitals play immediately become national? Is there a way to flex it? Or is it just going to be an NHL network where nobody can actually watch it because we all have YouTube TV?

Well, fortunately, a few of the last three games of the year are already national. So three of their last four are already national games. Okay, that's good. Columbus, Islanders, and Pittsburgh. So hopefully if it's one of the, I don't think he's going to get. all five, although I should knock on wood. He could get one goal a game for the next five. But it looks like the leagues put themselves in at least a decent position for that.

Yeah, I'd be really bad at that were like, you know, not even available on ESPN Plus because it's an NHL network game or there's some local blackout. Like, come on, man. Just let everybody see the game. Oh, the dreaded NHL network game. That's it. I haven't. I've got cable, but so many people are.

I like, I love NHL network. I wish I could watch it. It's the only channel I'm ever on and I don't get it. It's really annoying. All right. Let's take a quick break right there. We're going to come back and talk Torterale. All right, we're back.

And, as I said in the intro, I want to do something around John Tortorella, obviously fired by the Flyers last week. One of the more interesting coaches we've had in the NHL, certainly through my career. And I got to think quite a bit stretching before that too. And he's had an illustrious career in a lot of ways. He's been a prolific coach. He's turned a lot of teams around.

But one of the things we know John Tortorella best for is he's always good for a really good soundbite. So we ranked our top 10. torturalla sound bites here. Our producer Chris came up with the pool and then we ordered them. He'd also broke a couple ties for us because we had a couple that we were a little split on. But we're going to count them down. So let's start here with number 10. That's why I called it.

I can't change the players on the icing rule. I can't change the players. Another guy during the season that you spoke about that's going to be big during the playoffs was Fedatanko because of his two tattoos. That's just, that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I said to thank you said about it. You guys give me shit about it. All right.

So this one I just flat out agree with, right? Like, I don't, I don't think this is out of pocket at all. I hate when someone's phone goes off or somebody plays like a highlight. They're on Twitter,

autoplay video drives me absolutely nuts. So I was thrilled that he went off on this one. He didn't even go that hard. Yeah, I like it when a coach, like, you know, picks up the phone and someone's in and then they just like talk to the person

and like, like show a little bit of fun with it. Like, calm down. It's just a hockey press conference. And my wedding, this happened at my wedding. My uncle was our officiant.

We're at a wedding. We're like doing our vows or whatever, and someone's phone rings. And my uncle, he goes, God, is that you? And it was one of the best moments of the wedding. That's good thinking on your uncle's feet. That's well done.

That's why he got the job. Let's go to number nine. Are you happy with the effort tonight? Yes. You're asking me dumb questions, guys. Really dumb questions. Jesus. Say it our eyes off.

We're done? Thank you. All right. See, I'm always torn on this. Like, I don't like the way Torts belittles the media, even when the media kind of deserves it. Like, it just feels disrespectful. We're just doing a job, man. And here's the ugly truth about sports writing is dumb questions usually lead to good answers. Like, a lot of times we're doing that for, you know, I miss the days where scrums and press conferences weren't televised.

Yes. Because a lot of times I am intentionally asking something that might sound stupid or I know the answer to. or you know, you're trying to get a rise out of someone. There's a million reasons you could be asking a question. And, you know, to just like, you know, it's a dumb question. It's like, yeah, maybe it was. But, you know, also he makes dumb moves sometimes too, right? Like, calm down, man.

100%. I mean, the thing about the sound bite is, right? When you hear it with the question in it, yeah, it works. But you and I are writers. We're looking for a quote. We're looking for this person said this. And the less I have to introduce in the quote, the better. Yeah, when I go into a press conference, I'm asking open-ended.

Even if I know that you did or you didn't probably like the effort, I want to ask it open-ended so that you could say, I love the effort or I hated the effort because that's a much better quote. Right. And a lot of what Tortorella does in these scrums is very intentional. He does it to draw attention to himself and away from players that are struggling. Like there's reasoning, but there's a method to the madness in some ways. Sometimes he's just being a dick, though.

And I don't like that when he's being a dick. If we talk to a coach that same way, we would be just eaten alive because we're supposed to show some level of deference and respect to a coach. I always say this, people get mad at me. The people we cover, like the players, the coaches, they're essentially our colleagues. They're our coworkers. We share office space with them. And we're doing a job that requires both of us. Part of their job is dealing with us and a lot of our job is dealing with them.

And there should be just a level of basic human decency that you show a coworker. And so when we're showing that respect to him and he doesn't show it back to us, I don't know, maybe I'm being a little histrionic and clutching my pearls. But that kind of eats me a little bit. Well, here's what I'll say, though, is we write plenty about this guy in a bad game or made a dumb decision. Never. What are you talking about? If they want to say we did a dumb question or press conference, I'm fine with that. You're right.

And I prefer when they do it off camera. Yes. And I'm always happy to have that conversation and clear the air. But you're right. You know, we're doing it publicly. Why can't they, I guess? Exactly. So that's how I try to rationalize it when it happens to me, because it does. Number eight.

The whistle is blown at 19.2 on the clock. For some reason, the clock has run down a second and a tenth to 18.1. For whatever reason, I have no idea. So instead of resetting the clock, we have them tell our captain, we're not going to do it. Toronto doesn't step in. Refs don't do their freaking job. And now we lose the game and we lose our goal. So the chain of events, if it was done right, we don't lose our goalie, we win the hockey game.

So all this technology, right, the technology and getting things right, the stubbornness tonight by the officials and by the league and Toronto, however it's supposed to work, screws us. It's ridiculous. I love this. I am 100% in favor of coaches putting themselves out there to get fined to express what every single fan of their team is thinking, right? It's so cathartic as a fan to hear a player or a coach echo your problems with the officiating because we're always never, we're never supposed to talk about the officiating. Sometimes the officials screw up.

And I love hearing that from a coach. But Patty Wa did that the other day, a week or two ago where he said, you know, if Toronto's not going to have the guts to make a call, then why do we have Toronto, right? I think it was Wao who said. that. That's what I want to hear. If I'm a fan of that team, I want a coach who's just as mad about the officiating as I am. It's also like an example of why for all the perception that's out there and, you know, there's always some player that Tortarella seems to have kind of a beef

with. In general, guys play really hard for him. And I think this is an example of why, right? You know he's going to go out there and he's not going to pull punches and that your whole room's pissed about the call. He's going to go let the league have it in front of everybody and he'll take whatever consequences come his way. I love this too. And I've wondered before, because I'm right on the millennial Gen Z divide, I'm a millennial, but I'm getting pretty close. And there's kind of that idea, right, that today's player doesn't do well with hard coaching. I don't know how I would do in that situation with hard coaching. That kind of thing would make me run through a wall, though. No doubt. I feel like you have to be a certain kind of player to play for Tordarella, but if you are that kind of player,

he's going to get the best out of you. Like, he's not for everybody. You can't throw some of these younger guys in there with him. But some of these guys you can, and he's going to get every ounce of effort out of them. Number seven. We know what we did. What did you do? Next question. Where did you do? You know what you did? What did you think you did? Brooks, if I want to explain it to you, I would. Next question. I guess that's what I'm saying, Brooksie. You get that from you head? I guess so. Yeah. And it's time to waste the time. Oh, then get the fuck out of here then. Okay, see you. Next question.

Not going to be Larry Brooks's last appearance on this show today, as I'm sure you could guess. But, I mean, it's iconic, right? That's one of the ones everyone thinks of it. It's good. Again, like, he's doing it on purpose a little bit, and he really wants to give it to him. He's not entirely wrong, right? He kind of said, I'm not going to answer this. And Brooks wanted to keep going with it.

I don't have a problem with Brooks doing that. That's his right. I don't have a problem with Torz's answers there. I think that's perfectly fine. I think that's probably a little more, we'll get to the other one later. But I think he's justified enough in this one. Yeah, just because someone says they're not going to answer a question, doesn't mean you don't keep answering it, right?

Asking it, right? A lot of times, you know, the PR team will say, all right, he's not going to answer questions about so-and-so. Well, the goddamn first question I'm asking is about so-and-so. That's why we're here, right? If he doesn't want to answer it, I want him on the record not answering it. He's going to hide from it, fine. So good on Larry for pushing back.

But yeah, I don't think that Tortarella does this with almost any other reporter, right? Like, Larry Brooks and him had this unique dynamic where Larry Brooks has been around forever. He's a legend. And, you know, there's kind of like a big brother, you know, kind of like attitude between the two of them. And, you know, they kind of have that little snarl to their relationship. I think they both enjoyed it. They liked working with each other. They liked yelling at each other.

I think that he doesn't do that to some cub reporter who's just trying to get a question out, right? He does it to Larry Brooks. And at the same time, right? Like his point is ultimately, we know what we did wrong. He's not going to air his player out. Clearly, I'm sure they're going to have that conversation the next day of practice. Whatever it is, it's probably sensitive enough that he doesn't want to be doing it in public. And also, guess what?

We're there watching the game. So I've had it happen a few times where I ask a question. The coach is like, well, did you watch the game? And I have to go, ah, I did watch the game. So I guess I should just be able to write this whether you give me an answer or not. Well, that that's just it, right? Right. Like we can just do it ourselves.

We are qualified to analyze a hockey game. But we do like to get the first person accounts, the second person accounts from the coach or the player. If we don't get it, we're still going to write it. But it's nice to be able to say, here's what I think and here's what the coach said. Like it just gives it a little more well-round. So you have to ask. And sometimes you have to ask twice. And sometimes it gets a little ugly.

And what they say doesn't always change how you write it, but there are times that it really actually can. Like the Red Wings had a game the other night. They went 0 for 5 on the power play in the first 22 minutes the game. They had four first period power plays. the fifth started in the first and ended in the second. And they went over. And then I thought their second period was horrible. And the way that Todd McClellan answered when talking about those power plays changed how I wrote the game.

Because I hadn't considered that what that ripple effects of having all those power plays that you don't score on would do is you just wore out your five best players who are probably going to need the whole second period basically to refine kind of their. They get intermission obviously, but it's not quite the same. Like you've played them into the ground for the first period. It's going to have an effect. I wouldn't have ever considered that. So I didn't need him to tell me that the power play wasn't, you know, good enough for the win 0 for four. But I did need that extra layer.

And it affected my story to hear that. And that's why, you know, when Tortorella is not talking, this is kind of one of the problems I have with this. It's like, let's have a conversation about this, right? Luke Richardson, when he was Blackhawks coach, you know, say what you will about him as a coach. He was an open book. And his every scrum took 15, 20 minutes.

Because he was telling you every little detail. every X and O, every little thing. He once gave us the X's and those of his diarrhea because he had the stomach, you had like food poisoning and why he missed the morning skate. He got into way too much detail. He wanted to tell you every reason why this happened, why this goal, you could go through every single goal and he would tell you what breakdown caused it. And there's a benefit to that because if anything,

he's like educating fans through the media. And sometimes he's educating reporters. Like you said, sometimes you don't think about something. I've been around the game forever now, but there are things I don't know. And I'm open to that. And if a coach is willing to, you know, to get into it, it makes all the coverage that much better. I'm not letting go that you just said that there were X's and O's to diarrhea. That's incredible.

I swear to God, he got into so much detail about like, oh, I ate this thing at around 10.30 in the morning and I was in the bathroom for the next hour. Like, it was one of the more absurd things I've ever seen. Number six. When it comes to a coach to an opposing player, it's disrespectful and it's wrong. It's gutless. That's got to stop. Park your ego. Shovel in your pocket.

it's about the two teams. I'm not in a battle. I am not in the battle. He isn't in a battle. Shut your yak. Well, shut your yap is iconic, right? I mean, this isn't even the best example of him calling out another boating team's coach, but this is really good and you love the combativeness. And the shut your yap is great.

This is Hitchcock, if I remember. Is that right? Yep. 2004. And Hitchcock's not quite a yap on him, man. That guy can talk. I love that. You don't see this.

This is what makes Torterale unique is he will call out, we'll get to a couple, he will call out opposing players by name. He will talk about the other coach. This is not how it's done in hockey. And whether you think it's like, you know, ghost or not, there's something thrilling about it where this is a guy who's telling you exactly what he feels about an opponent. And that's, you know, we see that in other sports all the time. NFL guys are always talking crap on each other.

You know, baseball it happens. When there's a brawl or a pitcher hit him, like, oh, they're yelling, crap NBA, it happens all the time. This does not happen in hockey. And we're always dying for this kind of stuff. Give us some personality. Give us some conflict. So when Torter really got, you know, when he's calling out reporters, whatever, there's a

power dynamic there. When he's calling out the other coach, hell yeah, give me more of that. Or maybe calling out one of the greatest players of all time, number five? It's a cheap, dirty hit. It's just, I wonder what would happen if we did it to there, two whining stars over there. I wonder what would happen. So I'm actually to see what happens with the league. with this. It's one of the most arrogant

organizations in the league. They whine about this stuff all the time and look what happens. But they'll whine about something else over there, won't they? Starting with their two stars. How is this not number one? I'm pretty sure I had this number one. It probably should have been. I don't know.

Mike God, he's not just calling out another player. He's calling out one of the four greatest players that ever lived and this similarly great Hall of Fame running bait. This is Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin. He is destroying them. He is calling them whiny little babies.

How was this not number one? You did have this number one. I think I ranked it too low and that's how it ended up down here. It was really good. I mean, this was kind of Pittsburgh's reputation at this time too, right? So he was vocalizing what so many hockey fans. This is when the Columbus Pittsburgh rivalry was kind of at his peak, right?

I think he was in New York. Rangers Penn's 2012, like early Crosby and Malcon. I don't think they had earned, I mean, they had won. but the reverence for Crosby, I don't think he was still young enough

that people weren't ready to really go there with him kind of thing. Can you imagine like Todd McClellan just like going, Connor Bidarty's soft and he complains all the time. Like that would never happen with any other coach in the world except for John Torterilla.

It's really good. I should have ranked it higher. Number four. It's embarrassing to coach against the guy across me tonight. Some of the things that went on when Danny's hurt, it's embarrassing.

He pisses me off. It's just, it just, I just don't like the disrespect of how we, with players. It aggravates me. I don't like the way he does business. I don't like him. So I'll just leave it at that. I don't know why I opened it up, Ben. Like you said, if you open it up, but it aggravated out of me.

You saw his starting lineup. I mean, you've been down that road a couple of times. It's push league. I got to get out of here. Yeah, that's right. I voted that one. I voted that. one, partly because of that at the end.

And I assume is Ben the PR guy? Like he said, like you said, if you open it up, whatever, what I like about it is you can just hear him the whole way. Like, he doesn't want to make this a story, but he just can't, he's not going to keep this in. And I relate to that so much. Exactly. He's like, I'm not walking out of here until I say,

I don't like this guy. I got to get out of here. It's not because I can't stand you guys. It's because I'm going to get myself in so much more trouble. 100%. That's what I love about it. There's a rare bit of self-awareness there. Like, oh, man, I shouldn't have opened this.

Why am I doing? I got to get out of here. Obviously, that's about Bob Hartley. That's Canucks Flames in 2014. So that's the coach when I was looting to earlier. I voted at number one. I think it should have been, in my opinion, top three. But it ends up at number four for us.

Let's go to number three. It's like choosing your favorite child here. Some of these are so good. This is going to be really quick. I'm not taking any questions. We sucked from head to toe. And we need to move by it. So I'm not going to die.

with you guys. I know you have to do your job, but I'm not answering any questions. Okay, so that should finish it. All right, to the point we talked about earlier, the reporters, you watched the game, go write the story, and by the way, I'll give you your lead, because that's every writer's lead, by the way, for that story.

Dornerella came out and said, I'm not taking any questions, we sucked. I remember once I caught Joel Quenville scrum, there was a review that went against the Blackhawks and cost them a game. And there was this old school, like, wouldn't podium that that would do the press conferences at

at the United Center. And I had my recorder on the podium. So he gets there. It's a 43 second press conference. And you could hear on, at the end of it, he just threw, literally threw his hands up and just walked off in the middle of a sentence. He was so angry about the officiating. But you could hear in my

recording him gripping the wood and like, shattering the wood beneath his hands. He was so angry. There's just times like, I don't like this because like a coach that's part of his job is to talk about the game with reporters, even in the heat of a rough loss. But I could also understand that there's just some times when you're so pissed off that

you just can't handle it. And Joel Quenville turning that podium into shreds, I think that he could sympathize with John Tortorillo on this one. If you give a quote, like, we suck tonight and the media is still going to get to talk to all the players, I'm good with it. Like, that's a great quote and you're still going to get the perspective from all the players. So when I came into covering the NHL, I had only known torts from what I had seen on YouTube, right? So I assumed all of his press conferences were like this. And they came through Detroit and Katie Strang introduced me to him, like, you know,

either before, probably right after his little scrum. And he couldn't have been nicer guy. And it really, that informed my perspective on him. He rescues dogs. Like, he's got these, like, anyone who rescues dogs has got to be a pretty decent human, right? Absolutely. Like, like, the reputation comes from the fire. And that is something that I can not only, like, admire and respect,

but it kind of endears him a little bit to me that all this stuff just comes from passion. I like him as a coach a lot more than I like him as a television commentator because I do think there's some there's some like Don Cherry dinosaur stuff rattling around in his head that drives me nuts sometimes. And I'd rather see him behind a bench than on a camera. I'm sure he would do. Well, I'm coming around to his way of thinking on the Michigan, to be honest, because I'm kind of sick of seeing it. So I don't know. Maybe he had a point. Number two. I'm not going to answer any questions from you. You're not?

No. Oh, good. I'll speculate. You speculate and be as sarcastic as you can be, as you usually are. I will. Go right ahead. Good. Should one of you guys are taking off of me or no?

I said I'm not answering any of your questions. Have you ever fought before? Yeah. You have? Yeah. Are you challenging me now? No, no. I'm not challenging.

Redden sticks up for his teammates the other night. Yeah. And you come out with some sarcastic article? It was funny. It was funny? Yes. Well, you know what? You're probably beat up in the bus stop most of the time.

I think so. Next. The late second period goal. You're a great representative of the city. Will you let these other, just go stand somewhere else. Would you please? No, I won't. Oh, my gosh.

I'll speculate. What a great, that's a good, good job on Larry Brooks there. That was a good quip. I'm giving this one decision to Tortorella. Oh, no. Have you ever fought before as a banger? That's pretty good. No, and there's no question, but like, you know, a lot of times, like, you see this from time to time where they're like in a press conference gets combative or a scrum gets competitive. And the reporter shrinks.

Yeah. And just like, oh, I don't want to become the story. Get me out of here. And I've been at the center of those in the past. And, you know, to be able to stand there and go back and forth a little bit, even if you lose just to be able to trade punches, I think that goes a long way. I think, I think Larry gets to get a little credit here. But there's no question he got TKOed. Totally. I mean, these are competitors. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, when someone like John Tortorella is going at you a little bit, he is a competitor. He's not going to be offended that you're also a competitor a little bit, right? But I just thought that line was excellent. Yeah, no, the respect matter goes up. That was me and Brent Seabrook for years, like Brent Seabrook was, I had this, you know, he was a really likable guy, but he was very much, I am everybody's big brother.

And the way you kind of got in with him was being able to give it back to him a little bit, like where I would request him and he would come out. Like, ah, what the hell do you want? I'd be like, I'd have to come back with something like, off the top of my head. Like, oh, it's so exhausting to walk 17 steps to come talk to me for three and a half minutes.

And then you had to go back and forth a little bit and then he'd be more willing to give you his time. He's like, all right, there's something here. and you have to kind of earn that. And I feel like when you have a coach like Tordarella, you have to come back at him a few times to kind of get his respect. Do you remember what the line was that he was fired up? I googled that.

I couldn't find, ironically, there's enough Larry Brooks Wade Redden columns out there that you probably can't just pick one. I think it's about a line where he called him Golden Gloves Redden, which is pretty funny, admittedly. Like, that is funny. But this is why columnists have to show up the next day, right?

Yeah. Like we've all been around columnists that, you know, lob a grenade and then don't show up for the three and a half months. So that by the time they come back, nobody's mad at them. Like every city's got them, you know, especially in this age of bloggers and podcasters, like show up the next day, man. Like, I don't have a problem with you taking shots at somebody if you can back it up, but show up the next day. Be there for, in case someone has an issue with what you wrote, you know, confronted. Like, it's not going to get physical and violent. This isn't the 1970s. Nobody's going to shove you into a lock. stalk, but be ready to have a conversation with someone that you took a shot at. So, you know, if you're there the next day, if you write a column like that, you know, I got all the respect in the world.

There are times that I've even waited. They're on the road and I'm writing from home on like a trip I'm not on. They have a stinker and I'm like, I need to write something pretty critical here. They have another game before they come home. There have been times I've waited for the next game to see if it repeats so that I'm not writing the column and not showing up the next day. Like, that is a pretty big kind of unwritten rule. One of the reasons being on the road is so huge for a reporter because, you know, you do get that respect by showing up the next day.

Because every single player will tell you they don't read what's written about them. Every single player reads what's written. Every single player knows what you wrote that day. And if you're there, it's different than if you're not. It just absolutely is. Totally. All right. And coming in at number one.

You know, Joe is a heck of a player. But here's a player popping off about our team. And Joe hasn't won a thing in this league. He could go down as a player. being one of the better players in our league never to win anything. So what he should do is just shut up. Because it was uncalled for, it was classless. And I've never had it happen like that before.

I mean, what a devastating. Like, I don't even know what Joe Thornton said. I'm sure once he heard that, he went, ah. There's no coming back from that, right? You just, when someone said you haven't won anything in this league and they're right, there's no coming back from that. And John Tortorella, he's not a player, but he's won a Stanley Cup. So he can say that.

So, okay, our producer, Chris, says that he said the Rangers were the softest team on the road trip. And yeah, I mean, if you're going to talk about soft and you haven't won anything, you got to be prepared to hear that, right? Yeah, no, I mean, that's, that's, this is among many, many, many reasons. It's why winning a championship is so important to a player, because it kind of gives you, it makes you kind of unimpeachable as a winner, as a champion, as a, as a, as a guy who can win the hard games. And nobody wants to go through their career, no matter how, Joe Thornton, one of the

all-time best players we've ever seen, maybe the best passer I've ever seen, never won. And that's going to have to eat at him because someone can say, John Tortorella could come this little five-foot-two dude, you come and say, you ain't one squat, man. And be right. All right. So that's the top ten. Obviously, excellent. But my question here, Laz, is a little more, a little more serious nature.

Do we think this will have been John Tortorella's last go-round as a head coach in the NHL? Obviously, it didn't work out in Philadelphia. He's not a guy who necessarily has to stay in one place. place forever. I don't think anyone's shocked that it ended after two years. Do you think there's going to be another go-round? I do. I mean, he's what,

66, I believe? So, I mean, that's not super old by NHL Bench boss standards. Look, say what you will about John Tortorella and the style he coaches. First of all, he has adapted over the years. He has, you know, his style has changed and adapted,

but he is going to coach you to a whole lot of loser points, right? He's going to get an overman, an underman team. into overtime a lot. He's going to make you more competitive than you would be without him if you're one of those kind of like when he was with Columbus. Like that's what he was, he made Columbus competitive year after year up year, despite them being kind of overmatch.

Someone will take him. Like, look, there's not a lot of job openings coming up because there's been so much turnover. But here in Chicago, they've had four consecutive rookie head coaches. If they really want to change things now, I don't think John Torterella is the guy to lead a rebuild. And I don't think that he's going to be high. their list. But if you're looking for the complete opposite of Jeremy Colleton, Derek King, Luke Richardson, and Anders Sorensen, well, he's John Torterella. That is the complete opposite.

So there's always going to be a GM that's like, you know what, we need three years of a hard ass in charge. And it's going to toughen our team up. And he will get hired somewhere. Yeah, I just think about teams that have been rebuilding for a while. Like, obviously, Philly was a tough fit because you couldn't really tell how committed to like really rebate. And obviously by hiring Tortorella, they're telling you they don't want to bottom out, right? But I think teams that have already bottomed out and are now trying to learn how to win again, it's one of the hardest things, right?

It's why nobody wants to rebuild because it's so hard to get your culture back. Well, he's one of the people who I think you can trust to get your culture back. So I look at situations like Buffalo, maybe Anaheim, although, you know, Cronin is of a similar ilk, right? So maybe the pendulum has to go the other way there whenever that, you know, runs its course. I don't know. Seattle, it's such a different situation. But these are the kind of situation. What about the New York Rangers? The New York Rangers are suddenly a, you know, personality free, identity free team, it seems all of a sudden. Well, who better to give them guts and

personality and identity than good old John Tortorella? I don't hate that take. What do you think? I don't hate that take at all. Yeah, I could see it. I think that's similar to kind of what they were getting at with Peter Lovia Latt, right? Yeah, I mean, have the longest shelf life, but it clearly hasn't gone quite as well as you would have hoped. I mean, they had a really nice run the conference finals a year ago. But this is a group that I think has more in it than they showed this year. Whether they're a Stanley Cup roster or not, I'm less convinced of that than I was before

the season. But there's more in them than they've shown. There's no doubt about that, right? I would be still a little surprised if they went that route if they do fire Lobby, if they miss the playoffs. But I do think within a year or two, we're going to have no. idea what the landscape in the NHL is going to look like. We know how quickly there are changes in the coaching business.

He'll get another crack at this because he has won a Stanley Cup. And the number of coaches that are available that have won Stanley Cups, it's always a short list. And there's nothing at GM prizes more than someone who's proven they know how to take a team to a championship. So he'll always, as long as he wants another crack, he'll always get another crack. And Larry Brooks is still there. So maybe we'll get a number one at the top of our list if that did somehow come to fruition. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show.

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