The Athletic Hockey Show - Top 10 NHL storylines for the 2026-27 season

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

As NHL training camps are set to open this week, the long wait for hockey is almost over. And, with that in mind, on today’s episode the guys break down the ten biggest storylines for the 2026-27 NHL season.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the athletics, Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. We are back, guys. It's a new season. Camps are going to start this week. Before we dive in, the athletics hockey desk, some of the sharpest reporting in the sport, if we do say so ourselves, is set to release the Hockey 100, ranking the 100 greatest modern NHL players. It's written by Sean McIndoo and Dan Robson with a foreword by Ken Hitchcock. out October 27th from William Morrow.

Well worth a read, stories on some of the great players that have defined the modern era of hockey. And today, guys, we're going to talk about the stories that are going to define the 2026, 2027 season in hockey. And let's start before we get to some of the on-ice stuff with a couple situations that we maybe thought would have been resolved before the puck drop, before players reported for training camp. That is the futures of Dylan Larkin and Connor Halaukklaz.

Yeah, I mean, this is the big story, right? We have like a week and a half long training camp here. Only four preseason games. Teams are going to get like maybe five or six practices in throughout this entire training camp. Then the season's on us. It's on us in two weeks the season begins. This is an unprecedented training camp outside of a lockout season. And we don't know where two of the biggest stars in the league are going to be.

Connor Hellibuck, we don't even know if he's going to show up at Winnipeg Jets training camp. That hasn't been made clear. Dylan Larkin will show up in Detroit, but he won't have the sea on his jersey. It's just distraction city and two teams that are. you know, fighting on the periphery of that playoff picture to get in and their seasons have been derailed before they've really even started. I mean, Jesse, you know, you're the goalie whisper.

Where's the spot for Hella Buck? Where's the spot for Hellebuck that the Jets can send Hellebuck to somewhere he wants to go and not completely, you know, kneecap their franchise for the next five years in the process? Right. I mean, that's always the tough thing is like I'm looking at these spots of like, okay, well, where does he fit in terms of like what's a good team that could use an upgrade at goalie?

but the problem is a lot of these teams don't have the assets to go the other way. No better example than where I'm at here in Vegas. I think the Golden Knights would love to have Connor Hellebuck, but they don't really have much to send back Winnipeg's way without hurting their own chances. Like if you're going to send a top end forward, that was part of the reason Buffalo made so much sense to me was they had kind of an excess of top six forwards. Now, they have lost some this off season and that makes it a little tougher. To me, Buffalo is the obvious one.

that's always going to be the most likely one. We've heard from all of our insiders that they've been in talks with the Jets for a while now. I still think that if you told me you have to guess and you're like pick one team, Buffalo would be the team I'd guess. I think Carolina still has a legitimate chance. I will say that that kind of goes against the grain of what that organization, how they viewed the goaltending position. They just won a Stanley Cup doing it their way, which is not spending a lot of money on that.

The only thing that kind of has changed my mind on that, though, is with the cap going up the way it has, and with Connor Hellebuck signing a sweetheart deal with the Winnipeg Jets, like he gave them an insane value when he signed when he signed that contract, he only costs $8.5 million. That contract, when you look at percentage of the cap, is closer to the deal they signed Freddie Anderson to a couple years ago than it is to the super goalie contracts of Kerry Price and Babrovsky, the ones we kind of think about when we think of like overpaying for a goalie. it's the percentage wise, I looked it up, and it's much closer to the Freddie Anderson deal. So maybe that deal in today's climate and today's cap hit does kind of fit in with what Carolina likes. Now, the hurricanes would have to give up quite a bit to get him. But I think, man, that would be terrifying for the rest of the league to put Connor Hellebuck on the defending Stanley Cup champions that have the puck all game. It's almost irresponsible to me if Carolina doesn't make this move.

Like, Carolina's got to be the team that goes and gets them. They're in their window right now. They're the defending Stanley Cup champions. they did nothing this summer except lose Freddie Anderson, which isn't that big of a loss. If you can bring back the exact same team plus the best goalie in the world and potentially create a dynasty situation, you have to take that chance. And I agree with you. I don't think that the cap space isn't really an issue.

Palo Buc is grotesquely underpaid in the modern day NHL that we're seeing what guys are getting now. To me, it's just absolutely irresponsible if Carolina doesn't somehow land him. My question is less about the money and more about what is a reasonable trade price for Connor Hellebuck here because, yes, it's a good contract for the caliber of player that he is. It's also got a lot of years left on it. He's 33 years old. And in the modern NHL, like we've seen some examples like Sergey Bobrovsky where a guy ages really well. But when you're talking about a Connor Hellebuck level price, and I think that's what the Winnipeg

Jets obviously are going to be seeking here, can you really justify doing that? And the contract is good, but it's not nothing either. So if you're talking about multiple, you know, two three level A level assets and then the price of the contract at 33 years old. That to me, I think, is where you run into a little trouble. But we've seen that you're not going to get three A level assets in a trade like this. Hellebuck has control of the situation. The Jets are desperate to get rid of him because he might not even play for them if he's under contract. But they're not.

They're not. You might not even come to Kemp. You're just going to not have Conor Helibbuck there and have that hanging over the team all year? Well, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be motivated to do it, but they're not behaving that way. They haven't so far, right? I would love to see them tell Connor Hellebock too freaking bad. You don't want to play for us, sit there and not play this year. I'd love to see a team do that. It's never going to happen, though. It's never going to happen. I will be stunned if Connor Hellebuck touches the ice in Winnipeg. I'll be stunned if he is in the Winnipeg at all. Like,

I think Connor Hellebuck's probably staying home. And maybe that is like, obviously things are starting to get more real. Maybe getting on the ice at training camp and him not being there, like, that puts a little more pressure on the jets and they do feel a little more. Like, because I agree with you, Max, it doesn't seem like they are cornered or or feel like they have to make a trade. Like right now, they're kind of handle, same with the Red Wings with Larkin. They're kind of just handling it. But I also think that if you show up to training camp and now he's not there and then you have to answer questions, like all of a sudden, maybe it becomes a little more real and it does start to put some pressure on them to get a trade done. And just real quick, the other team I would throw in there that I don't see talked about much,

Utah makes so much sense to me. I think they're an up-accoming team. Now, it's with, it is within the division. And that's another loop like thing that we've got to figure out. If Winnipeg is willing to send him in the division, it's going to make it harder for you to get one of those playoff spots. But I think Utah makes a ton of sense and would be a lot better off with Connor Hellebuck. I think it's somewhere he would go. They have the two young goalies now, Kosa and her ball. Like you can give either one of those up, which would satisfy a big box for Winnipeg. And then obviously you're going to have to do a little more than that. But I just bring it up because you guys talked about who can meet the trade price and do this.

And I look at it and I don't think the trade price can be that high if you want to pull this off if you're Winnipeg. I guess that's like the point I'm making is it's not that they should get two or three assets. I think if they're looking for that, they're going to box themselves into a point where nothing happens. I think you're probably looking for like an A asset and a half, maybe two. Well, how many times do we need to see it? Claude Jureau, Patrick Kane, Brad Marchand, Brady Kichuk. When the player has all the control, the team is not going to be able to maximize that deal. We see it over and over again, and a guy like Helibuck's not just going to open it up to anybody.

You know, it's the same situation. The Dylan Larkin situation is different because he seems willing to play and figure this thing out, even if it takes a little while. He's willing to be on the team, be on the ice with those guys. I talked to Alex to Brinkett last week in Vegas, and he said, look, he's on our team. He's our friend. We're going to, you know, it's not going to be a big problem. but with Hellebuck, that doesn't seem to be the case. He wants no part of that organization right now, and he is not going to give the Jets any leash at all.

Yeah, releasing that statement last week that he's going to be at camp. And that is basically all the statement said on his end is that he'll be a camp. At least that does kind of check that box last to your point, but I still think that there is distraction risk for the Red Wings with Lark. I don't think it's going to be, you know, I think the locker room is one thing. I think that'll actually be okay. I think players always tend to be kind of the most understanding of where other players are coming from and, you know, players may have their feelings,

but I think they all know that they need Dylan Larkin to have any shot. At least to start the year, I mean, he makes him a better team. But I think as the year goes on, and Dylan Larkin's going to be getting booed, but he's not the only one who's going to be hearing the booze. Every player on the ice is going to hear those booze when he's on home ice. We're going to go in that locker room, and fair or unfair, we got to ask people about the Dylan Larkin situation of it all.

And I think that that is going to get old. And to Jesse's point, like that's going to happen with Hellebuck. When he's not there, it's going to happen with Larkin, when he is there, like these are situations that aren't ideal for teams to try to balance. And maybe you can find some kind of, you know, common ground to rally together. But I think when it's clear that the distraction, you know, centers on this one topic, that does get tricky for people to manage. With Larkin, it's interesting because, you know, in Vegas, who they had the player tour

last week and talked to like 35 guys and was asking them all the same questions basically about, does it bother you when a guy does this? When a guy commits to your team and then says he doesn't want to be there. And almost every single guy to a man says, look, in the room it's fine. We understand there's other things at play. It's not that he doesn't want to play with us. It's that he doesn't like the situation he isn't. That his family doesn't like the situation.

There's always something undergirding a request like this that goes beyond, I don't want to be in this uniform. And players understand that. And in this era of player empowerment, we're going to see it more and more often. And players are fine with it. But you're right. We're going to make it a distraction. The fans are going to make it a distraction.

It's a distraction. the Red Wings don't even have a freaking GM right now. It's the, this is the strangest offseason I've ever seen a team have. The season's starting and they don't even have a GM. It's been months. What is going on in Detroit? But within that locker room, it's really not that big of an issue. Yeah, exactly, until it becomes one.

And I don't think, you know, you say until we make it one, we're not trying to make it one. But you guys are asking us, right? What's happening? What's the deal with this? We got to ask people. That's what happens. It's kind of a chain of, uh, it only becomes an issue. if Larkin's out there half-assing it.

If he's out there, and that's exactly right. I don't expect that either. But that's the only way it becomes an issue if a guy gets so disgruntled and so unhappy that it's affecting his performance. Larkin's a professional. He's going to go out there. He's going to try to bump up his trade value

as much as he can, make himself as attractive to contenders as he can. It's like a contract year for him. He's going to be more motivated, if anything. It benefits everyone for Dillon Larkin to play well, right? It benefits the Red Wings because they don't, you know, they're going to want to try to be competitive this year.

It benefits Dylan Larkin because the better he is, the more possibilities he's going to have in a trade. You know, his list is still a big factor in all this. And, you know, I hear from Red Wings fans all the time. Like, Dylan's got to open up his list, right? That may end up being a part of this at some point, too. But, you know, there's a lot of wrinkles to that. So that's the off-season storyline that has not yet resolved.

Let's get into some of the ones that are, well, I guess these are not yet resolved, but they're ones at least will play themselves out on the ice. that starts with the Florida Panthers. I think they're one of the most interesting stories. They get Brady Kachuk, obviously. They missed the playoffs last year. We're all looking at how well they can bounce back. I think I'm ready to pencil them in, Jesse, as like inner circle Stanley Cup contender, top two or three teams I would pick to win the cup this year. Is that giving too much credence to what they were two years ago? No, I don't think so. Honestly, they would probably be my pick if we made picks today. I think you now, the additions, they added like,

obviously Kach is a huge addition. But to me, it's more so just this team is so good and they're rested now. Like I watched the Golden Knights go to multiple Western Conference. Like they were basically in the Western Conference Final every year for a few years there. And then they had the injury plagued year. They missed the playoffs and they come back and they looked completely different and they win the Stanley Cup that year. I think Florida last year was a product of the injuries, but even more so than the injuries. It's just a team that was worn down from three straight trips to the Stanley Cup final.

and like Bobrovsky did not look the same. Their top players who were healthy didn't look the same when they were out there. I think that the best thing that could have happened to them was missing the playoffs just to give them a complete summer of getting their energy back, rejuvenating. And now you add Kachuk. You add like Barkov is back and looks like he's fully ready to go,

healthy obviously looked good in international play. I think Florida's going to be an absolute wagon. Yeah, Jesse's right. I mean, in Barkov coming back, we shouldn't just gloss over that. Sasha Barkov's the best player on the team, one of the best players in the planet. And he missed all of last year. That's a huge reason that they missed the playoffs. But yes, we saw it with Chicago, we saw it with L.A.

I think especially with L.A., those 2012-2014 L.A. teams, that's what I think of the most when I think of these Panthers, because the way they play, especially in the playoffs, is so tatching. They're so physical. And it's so hard to play that way for extended periods of time. That for them to get this four or five months off here and kind of recuperate. and, you know, they can get into the regular season, and it's going to be tough. The Atlantic Division's ridiculous, but they are clearly a team that should make the playoffs.

And then once they get in, they can ratchet it up. I think Barkov back, rested. And the thing about Brady Kachuk, he's like, what, the fifth best player on this team, maybe? I mean, Brady Kachuk had to be the man in Ottawa, and he is not the man. He is not that level of player. He is not a top 10 player in the world. He's probably not a top 20 player. He's really, really good.

In Florida, you've got Barkoff. You've got Matthew Kachuk, you've got Ryanhard, you've got all these guys all over the place where Brady Kichuk can go there, be a 75 point guy, stir some shit up like he does all the time, you know, blend in very well with like a Sam Bennett and a Ryanhart and all those guys. And he can just be a role player. And when you take guys who have been the man and you put them into those secondary roles, that's how you get a championship caliber team. And right now, Florida, on paper, is probably the best team in the league.

I agree. The reason I ask the question is not because I don't think they're the best team in the league, but we've seen with like Tampa, right? Like we assume, you know, Tampa has their dip after three straight trips to the finals. Okay, they're going to be right back. They really haven't been. And they've had some really good regular seasons. But it is like age plays in weird ways.

And I don't know if it's just age or if it's kind of, my point is I think that the Brady element is an antidote to that. Because it injects this new element, this new flavor. And it's a major one. I get your point that he's, you know, it's still Barcov's team. And Barcov's like the real driver here. and obviously Matthew's a big part of it and Sam Reinhardt. They're so deep. But I think it's enough of a new element that it will feel new to them.

If there's one thing Brady Kachuk does really well, it's bring energy, right? And for a team that's won everything and has had all those long runs, you need that. You're absolutely right. You need that lift. And Brady Kachuk will give them that lift. Yeah. The other X factor is, I mean, Sergiababovsky's gone. And Jacob Markstrom takes his place.

He was, but the whole team was. They were all worn out. like I said, like I think what goes for the rest of the team, getting that rejuvenation, getting that summer off, would have also went for Bobrovsky. I would feel a lot safer picking Florida to win it all with Sergei Bobrovsky because we've seen him do it, even if he's not a Vezina contender in the regular season because he's a streaky goalie who has bad months and they kind of tank his stats.

You've seen it. When the chips are all down in the playoffs, Sergei Bobrovsky has been absolute nails for the last three post seasons he's played in. Jacob Markstrom hasn't had much. playoff experience. He was very good for his whole career in Calgary, but rarely played in the playoffs. The Devils made the playoffs one time when he was there. And I thought he was fantastic in that series against Carolina. They ended up losing it. So we only got to see a handful of games from him. It's not a very big sample size. He's an older goalie who has been injured quite a bit over the last

few years. That is a wild card that we don't, I honestly don't know how it's going to play out. I could see Jacob Markstrom. I know he is pumped for the opportunity. This is a guy who's been a a starting goalie for whatever, 10 years and has never had a team with these kind of expectations. He is so pumped. It wouldn't surprise me to go in there and we see the best version of Jacob Markstrom we've ever seen. It also wouldn't surprise me if he's dinked up all year, we see Akira Schmidt in net way more than we all expect. And that is a major problem for this team. And don't forget, we talk about how Brady Kachos can energize the Panthers. The Panthers have a long history now of energizing players that come to Florida and they just love it. And it brings the best out of them.

the system, the coach, the weather, everything just brings the best out of them. So this could be Marchstrom coming into a perfect situation to have a career season. All right, I'm going to skip down the list from what we had planned here because you just mentioned Sergei Brabrovsky. He's in new surroundings too. A lot's going to be asked of him in Toronto. And so, Jesse, I ask you, what does Sergey Bavrovsky have left in the tank? Is it enough to get the Toronto Maple Leafs back into the postseason?

Man, I wish I could sit here and say he's going to be their savior, but I'm very worried. I think that if Bobrovsky had gone to a like true contender or even like San Jose was my favorite landing spot, like a team that has a top goalie like Ascarov in San Jose or or and he can just come in and play 40 games, 45 games and then once we're in the playoffs, let me be the guy. I don't know if that's going to be the case in Toronto. Anthony Stolars is a good goalie, but he's been injured a lot. He hasn't played.

We have never seen him play a full like starters workload. So it's probably going to be more. Ron Bobrovsky, especially with what they paid him. And I just don't know if that team's good enough. If you put Bobrovsky on the Toronto Maple Leafs from two years ago, three years ago, I think that they're good enough to win at all. I just don't know if this team's good enough. And we saw last year, Sergey Bobrovsky at this stage in his career,

behind a team that isn't very good that is a little, that lets up a lot of chances like Toronto did last season, it can crater very quickly. He is an athletic goalie who moves a lot. and when you have those types of goalies, if you don't play good defense, we've seen it with UC Soros in Nashville. I think UC Soros is still a great goalie, but that style of goaltending behind a bad team,

it can crater way quicker than just a big guy who kind of takes up space and maybe doesn't have the ceiling if those guys do. At this age in his career behind that bad of a team, I don't think Toronto's going to be very good. Like when it first happened, I was more optimistic about it. The more I've thought about it,

the closer the season has got, I'm worried about what's going to happen with Bob in Toronto. And he's going to have very few gimmies in that Atlantic Division. There's going to be a lot of tough games, tough back-to-backs, things like that. He's going to have to play a lot. Look, I've been around the Panthers a fair bit the last few years, and the way people talk about Sergey Bobowski,

I know you're the goalie guy, but like they talk about, I think Barkov called him the perfect human and the perfect athlete. Like the amount of effort and time and work he puts into his body and staying young even at his age, if anybody can pull it off at this age, a late career renaissance, it's Bobrowski. But man, he did not look good last year. You're absolutely right.

behind a messier, sloppier team, it could get ugly in a hurry. I think he was the second worst goalie in the league statistically last year, like 90th out of 91st. And now you're putting it behind the Maple Leafs. It could be a recipe for disaster, but man, what a story would be if this like, you know, the lion in winter comes out and brings Toronto back from the brink. I think it's going to be on Austin Matthews to decide that. I mean, if Austin Matthews has the kind of year he had last year,

it's going to be tough sledding again. But I don't think he will. I think Austin Matthews is in for a little bit of a revenge. tour this season. All right, we've made the defending Stanley Cup champions wait long enough, Las. We talk about Florida and whether they can kind of bounce back. Is Carolina going anywhere? I don't think so. It's funny because they're another team that plays a really difficult, exhausting, grueling style. And they've been to a bunch of conference finals. Now they went all the way. It's the same core year after year after year. At some point, they might fall off of a cliff.

I don't think it's going to happen now. I think that when you win the cup, that next year, I don't really believe in the Stanley Cup hangover when it's a team like that, when it's a team that's been building toward that for years. I think it's going to be kind of slingshot them. There will come a time when Carolina finally runs into the wall because like Florida, like those Kings teams of the past, you can't play this way forever. Rod Brindamore's style is so demanding. It's so exhausting that is really tough to maintain for a long, long period of time.

But they have the exact same team. They lost, like they brought in nobody and they lost nobody except for, I guess, Freddie Anderson's their backup goalie. So, I mean, if you can go out and get a Connor Hellebuck, pencil them in. They're my Stanley Cup favorite without question. I still think that they're the team to beat in the East just because they've proven it. And it's the same team.

I'm just curious when Rod Brindamore's system catches up to them and they run out of steam. Yeah, this team, they're not old. So they're like, I don't see any age curve with really any of their players, like especially their main players, like, look, Stancoven, if anything, is still getting better. And then to me, what they've got working for them is the division is not as good. Like Florida, you're in an Atlantic division where if you just take one step back, like, things can snowball on you in a hurry, that metro division is, I mean, maybe the Pacific is weaker, but it's between those two, if you're arguing what's the weakest division in hockey.

Last year, the other two teams to make the playoffs in that division other than Carolina were Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and not exactly the most threatening teams. Like I think Washington, we're going to talk about them later. I think they could take a step forward. But as a whole, I just don't see anyone that's ready to, like, dethrone the hurricanes in that division. And then once you get to the playoffs, like, we'll see what happens there. But the team is too good to see a fall like we've seen from other, like,

defending champions. To me, in that division, I just don't see it happening. Yeah, they're going to, they're going to cruise to the division championship without really that much stress on them mentally, emotionally, physically. So if they could just stay healthy into the playoffs, then they can ratchet it back up again, they'll be sitting pretty. The health does have to go right, but I do view Carolina as kind of this machine-like thing. And I view it as a collision course between them and Florida.

And that's the playoff matchup that I really hope we get. Things go wrong all the time. Someone gets a tough draw in the first round and injury hits at the wrong time and we don't kind of get that faded matchup. But that's the one I want to see in the conference final. I guess I'll take it in any round, Florida and Carolina. You would think we would have to wait until the conference final for it. As you said that Carolina should cruise in the metro. But I wonder if the last.

stands capitals, who I would say are the off-season winners of the NHL summer, if I may, might have anything to say about that. Yeah, no, I love what Washington did. They seem to be the one team that knows how to retool on the fly, right? Like, with Ovechkin, they just refuse to take a step back. As long as Ovechkin's in that uniform, they're going to be going for it every year. And to add Jordan Kairu and Alex Talk, those are such nice capitals-like additions. You know, they're not megastars, but they're really, really good players.

Boone Jenner is a great depth edition. They don't really have any superstars. Tom Wilson, Jacob Chitrin, Cairo, even Ovechkin at this stage of his career, these are not, you know, top 10 players in the world. But they have so many good, I don't even want to call them second tier. They're really good players. But they just build a nice team. They have great depth up front.

There's a lot to like here. Logan Thompson continues to be one of the most underrated goalies in the league. Yeah, no, they are the clear second best team in the Metro to me. And I don't think it's really particularly all that close. Yeah, I totally agree. Even though, like, they missed the playoffs last year, I think that this is the second best team. And you mentioned Tuck and Kairu. I love those additions, not just because they're great players.

But to me, watching Washington last year, I thought that they played really structured hockey. It's part of the reason Logan Thompson has been able to put up the stats he has. Like, I thought it was absolutely criminal that he wasn't a Vezna finalist because his stats, you can't find a stat where Logan Thompson wasn't one of the three best goals in the league last year. And part of that is the environment and the team surrounding. I thought they played really structured hockey, but they're just a little slow. Like, I thought they were a little plotting. They didn't have the speed to, like, back you off, to, like, make you afraid in transition. Like, if we turn this puck over at the blue line, it's going to be in our net.

They didn't have those guys. And Kairu and Tuck are absolutely that. They are going to bring speed up the wings. I think the perfect, like, type of player that they needed to add is just that speedy winger that gives your team some bite that put some fear in the other team that you're not, You don't have to cycle it down low and have the puck for a minute and a half in order to score a goal. You can score instantly. And I think Tuck and Kairu bring that.

I love what they did. I feel we're going to see Jordan Kairu come into his own. Like we've been waiting for it in St. Louis for so long. He's so freaking talented. And I feel like this is the scenario where he's going to really just blow up huge. There's a lot of rhyme with Martin Natchez there. And that was a player who is similarly extremely extremely talented, was maybe not hitting the potential. And even I was hesitant to that that we were going to see it.

And I don't know if it was just like not the right stylistic fit in Carolina, but then he goes to Colorado and he goes nuclear. And that is that is in play. Maybe not to the 100 point level. But I think that's in play something like that for Jordan Kairu. I want to go back to what you said, Laz about like Washington's like the only team that knows how to retool on the fly because I agree with you. And it's not just because of Tuck and Kairu. It's that they have those guys because Nashville went out and they brought in Stephen Samcoast and Jonathan Marchesoe in one summer. But they bring in these big free agents and they also have this wave of.

of young guys coming, right? Cole Hudson got there last year, really impressive. Ryan Leonard's been there for a couple years. I think breakout is incoming for Ryan Leonard this year. Ilya Proto, another guy. Like, the prospect guys adore I really like Ilya protas. I really like Ilya protis, right? There is a nice blend here of, yeah, you went out and got some name players, some name brand recognition at the top of your lineup where you expect to contribute right away, but you also have these young pieces coming so that if it doesn't go, you know, gangbusters right in year one, you have other irons in the fire here. Like they have completely reset their that, you know, when we talk about Pittsburgh, everything is still on the Sydney Crosby clock in a way, right?

And I think Pittsburgh's done a pretty good retool, too, but it's still like, you're still trying to build this thing around Crosby and do this for Crosby, right? Ovecans going to go and Washington's going to be okay. Yeah, the only other team that's really pulled it off is Boston, really, when you think about it. They handed it from the Bergeron era to the Posternock McAvoy era in that same way where they added nice pieces around it, but they had these super studs coming up organizationally. And that's why, you know, Boston didn't take the huge step back that a Chicago did, that an L.A. did that, you know, half the league is done. Detroit's done. They did not have to go in the tank and tear it to the studs because they were able to kind of build the plane while they were still flying it. I totally agree. I feel like Washington is just a well-oiled machine. Like, it's just a really, I don't think we give them enough credit, like nationally, like for being one of the most well-run teams. Like they maybe, maybe they haven't had like, like, Ovechkin, obviously, but like they didn't get four first round picks in a row like him to, build a dynasty with multiple cups, but that team just does things the right way and rarely

makes huge mistakes. And I think that goes to what you're talking about, Max. All right, that's our halfway point. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Are you the kind of sports fan that wants to dig into the story behind the stats? Join the Athletic Live on YouTube to cover all the sports stories you can't stop talking about. On game days, we'll watch the biggest matchups alongside the athletics most tapped in reporters, and you can become part of the show in the interactive chat. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini, and you can subscribe now on YouTube. All right, guys, we're back. We got one more in the Eastern Conference before we head out West, and it's a simple one, Laz. Basically, every team in the Atlantic Division thinks

they are a playoff team. At least three of them have to be wrong. Who are they? I mean, it's Toronto, Detroit, and Ottawa, I think, but they're all right to believe that. That's what's so crazy is like there is no dead weight in the Atlantic Division. Toronto has had such a dramatic makeover this summer that, yeah, of course they believe they could be at it. Like you said, if Austin Matthews blows up again and Sergey Bobrovsky finds the fountain of youth, there's no reason to think they can't. Detroit's dealing with all this crap with Dylan Larkin, but that's still a pretty good team

that was in first place as recently. It was like, what, late January, early February last year before the Olympic break. So they're, you know, capable of it. And Ottawa, they lost Brady Kachuk, but Brady Kach was their entire team. They weren't a one-person team. You've still got a lot of talent up there. And, you know, you got Sanderson and you've got Stutzlod. There's reason to believe for every single team in the Atlantic division.

And there's going to be three very unhappy teams when it could be four because the Metro is going to be so weak that it could be one of those situations where, you know, there's so many teams feeding on the bottom of the Metro that they're going to get more points than these guys coming out of the meat grind of the Atlantic. It's going to be all season long. You know, I talk as much as anybody about how meaningless the regular season is in the NHL. for good teams, it is not going to be meaningless in the Atlantic. It's going to be like the old school college football where every loss feels like the end of the world. So you didn't mention Boston there. Why not Boston?

It could be Boston, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, Boston and Pittsburgh were two teams last year that felt a little smoke and mirrors where it's like, is this really what they are? Are they spiking a good season? But, I mean, there's still a lot of talent in Boston. They're kind of in the same boat as Ottawa, I feel like, where it could be maybe they're the two that are jockeying for that last, that fifth spot. And they have the better goalie between those two.

Yeah, exactly. When you got Jeremy Swimming, I would trust him more. So it's going to come down to those little details. And it's going to come down to overtime points, right? It's going to come down to a lot of shootouts and three on threes. This is going to be an awesome, awesome watch all year of the Atlantic Division. I love that you brought up Boston because Ottawa is also the team that I would pick to fall out of the playoffs that was in the playoffs last year. I thought Linus Olmark, we saw like the beginning of the end last year.

He started to look a little slower. I do like them bringing in Samuel Erison to back him up because I think he can play a lot more games. He was a starter for Philly a couple years ago. Not a great starter, but a guy who can handle a little more workload and I think that'll help Olmark. But it's Boston and Ottawa are such interesting. This is a great case study because to me, last year, Boston as a team was nowhere near

as good as Ottawa. I agree. They were bailed out by Jeremy Swamen all year. To me, Jeremy Swayman single-handedly drug a team that didn't belong in the playoffs into the playoffs. Ottawa is the opposite. Ottawa was one of the best defensive teams in hockey. They don't give up hardly anything. They were hurt all year by their goaltending, whether it was Olmark struggling, whether it was when Olmark wasn't there,

and they couldn't get an NHL caliber goalie in the net. They're almost exact opposites. So it's like, okay, well, will Ottawa continue being that good team? And now their goalie numbers will regress to the mean. And they will be a better team this year. And then the opposite happens for Boston where maybe Swayman can. carry them two years in a row, and they kind of fall back to where most of their underlying metrics say they are, which is not a playoff team. So very interesting. I don't know which,

like I would bet on Boston if it was me, but I could easily see Ottawa flipping with Boston, and they're just such opposite trajectories. It's an interesting situation. I talked about it a little bit last year around awards season, and Jake Sanderson missed a little bit of time. And I think that's why he kind of got left out of the conversation. But if you just blind resume, Jake Sanderson, Mo Sider and Miro Hayskenen, you will have absolutely no idea who is who. Like those three were so similar. And they have really emerged as this tier of three guys that I think is kind of the foil to the Hudson-McCarr-Hugh's trio in terms of like the big and Bouchard and Fox and all these guys. Right.

Like we've kind of, and McAvoy, I think can be in that group with Sider and Hayskin and Sanderson as well. But Sanderson, I think he's due for one of these pop years where everyone realizes exactly how good Jake Sanderson is. he is a top 10 defenseman in the NHL to me, I think pretty clearly. And I think it's very possible that if the senators get the right goal tending, and I think that is part of how we view defensive defensemen. You're going to look at that goal's four percentage or the plus minus or something. Everything else about Jake Sanderson passes the test. Like Jake Sanderson is in that tier as one of the elite defensemen of the NHL.

There's one other team we haven't mentioned yet that you mentioned earlier. We're all kind of waiting for the bottom to fall out on Tampa Bay, right? Yep. I don't, I still a really good team. but at some point, you know, Father Time comes for us all. Is Tampa a team that could fall out of the playoffs, given the depth of this division? I mean, you lose, they were like a 106 point team last year, I think. You lose four more games this year.

You might miss the playoffs. That's how rough this division is going to be. Can Tampa has some regression at this point? I'm not going to pick it, but I get where you're going with it, right? It's just really hard to pick against Kuturov and Vasilavski and these guys, but the cliff does come for everyone. It feels like Buffalo and Montreal. are probably the only two teams that I feel great about.

Florida. Going into this season. Oh, in Florida. Yeah, Florida. But Florida still has something to prove, right? They missed the playoffs last year. Yes, they didn't have Barkaw, but they missed the playoffs. They have something to prove.

But I feel like Buffalo and Montreal are the ones. They're the locks to be there for a long time. And I'm not really sure when the changing of the guard here comes. See, Tampa feels like they're in kind of that, like, Boston. You talked about like the handoff from the Bergeron era of the Posternak era. And every year we were like, yep, this is the year Boston falls off, up 125 points, you know, whatever. Like, Tampa's kind of in that stage to me where, like, you're right.

We are kind of eyeing them and going like, when is this going to happen? But I, you know, when the top end players are that good, they can carry it out longer than longer than. I mean, they haven't done anything in the playoffs in years now, right? It's been four straight first round losses. They're hardly this indomitable force like they used to be. Yeah. No, I agree. All right.

Let's go out west. And we'll go. We started with the uncertainty in the east. Let's start with the biggest source of uncertainty in the Western. conference, specifically in the central division, Las, can the wild do enough to keep Quinn Hughes this year? I don't know if that just means contract. I suspect that that probably has to have some element of on-ice success. When you look at the timeline that this decision has to get made, I mean, realistically, can the Wilde go beyond the trade deadline with Quinn Hughes unsigned? I don't

know. Like, they have some months to prove to Quinn Hughes that this is a place that he wants to be. Beyond the trade deadline, no way. No way. But it could take a while. Like, people who want to want this done during training camp, sure doesn't feel like this is going to get done during training camp. You know, the speculation has always been that Quinn Hughes wants a three-year deal extension to line up with Jack Hughes and then they can just decide what they want to do, where they want to go. Bill Garron might have to just take that.

He might not have a choice. You might just have, you know what, that way I get four and a half full seasons here to prove to Quinn Hughes. You'd think so, right? And look, we can criticize Bill Garan for a lot of reason. That dude is going for it, right? every year he is balls to the wall. I am trying to build a championship team here,

come hell or high water. And if you're a player, you love that. It's why guys want to go to Florida. It's why guys want to go to Vegas. They want to go somewhere where they're always trying to win. And Bill Garon is in that window where he is just desperately trying to get this team to win. So if that's what Quinn Hughes wants,

he'll stick around because there's no guarantee he gets a better place than Minnesota right now. But I do think that the Wild would, desperate to get him on like a five or a six-year deal. And I do buy that Jack and Quinn want to play together. They have no problems talking about it. They mention it all the time now. And the way to do that is to have their contracts line up.

And then three years from now, they get to decide, do we want to play together in Florida? Do we want to play together in Minnesota? Do we want to play together in Jersey? They get control of the situation that way. I totally agree with everything you said. Go ahead. The three-year deal. To me, it's like if you're Minnesota, I feel like if that's how you get it done.

Like it feels like that's the the eventual ending point to this, is that three-year deal. And I think that's enough to have justified the cost. Like at that point, you're getting four and a half, five years of Quinn Hughes. Yeah, absolutely. That's worth the capital that they gave up. You're getting basically, that gets you to the end of Caprizov's like peak prime. It gets you pretty close to the end of Hughes's peak prime. It gives you most of boldies prime.

Like you've given your stars the best chance you could give them to win. And the cost, I think, would bear that out. the problem is if you have to take less, you know, trading him at this deadline. But I think three years is not a bad outcome for the wild. That's five playoffs, right? That's five, that's a championship window for most franchises. And they're in it. They're in it right now.

We saw they beat Dallas last year. You know, they hung tough with Colorado. This is a good team that you can see winning a championship at the chips fall in the right order. And you know what? You talk about the price? We made such a big deal of that price. It's really that big of a price. Z. Bouhiam's fine.

It's good player. Mark Horacey's fine. Good young player. Ogrin, whatever. a first round pick? Like we're like, oh my God, they traded four first round picks. It's not that big a deal. We see this again in the NBA all the time.

If you're going to get a superstar, a truly elite top five on the planet player, four first round picks is absolutely nothing. Give me the star every time. And that's kind of how I feel when we were talking about Buffalo with Helibuck. It's like, yeah, the price will look big when they send it to him. But then like, when he's holding the Stanley Cup, it's like, who cares? Who cares? The other way.

Like it's, yeah, I totally agree. And like for Minnesota to back to the Hughes. deal. Like, you kind of mentioned Max, like success on the ice. I do think that you'd rather get it done earlier than later. Obviously, there are a million reasons. But also, the central division is so good. Like, it may not be as good when you go from like one to eight as the Atlantic, but top half of the division is better than the Atlantic, I think, with Colorado, Minnesota's up there, Dallas. I think Utah is going to take another step. If I were the wild, I would rather not wait two months and see where we are in this division because you could easily be fourth.

in this division very easily, even if you don't have a bad start. Like, this top of this division is absolutely stacked. I think Utah's going to be even better this year. You could easily be fourth in this division. And if you're Quinn Hughes and you're looking at it as you're the fourth best team in your own division, like maybe you start to have second thoughts. I don't know. If I were Minnesota, I would be trying to avoid that game at all costs.

Let's come back to that Utah point. We will hit that in a moment. Laz mentioned something about the idea of Quinn and Jack. And that's obviously been a huge part of the conversation throughout this whole saga is do they want to play together at some point. Jesse, I, like, I wrestle with this sometimes. Do you think that would really work as well as we, we kind of big brained up to be? Like, is Quinn and Jack and Luke all on one team in New Jersey or even, I guess, elsewhere, but let's say in New Jersey for now. Would that work as well as, like, you kind of dream it up to?

We're going to see a little bit of an experiment of that with the Kachuk brothers in Florida this year. And I got to say, I've got some reservations. Like, I have some work. that star players that are brothers being in a locker room can create now it's all up to them right like if if they are the right type of leaders then it's going to be fine and i think by all accounts so far jack and quinn have shown that they are the right type of leaders but if things aren't going well i think it could be a way like that that is a way for cracks to happen on a team like in a locker room a click it's it's it's there are questions i have about it i i think florida is going to be a great experiment to see how that works this year.

The Kachuk brothers are a very different breed of person than the Hughes brothers are. It's going to be very interesting to see how that all goes. But I do agree with you that, like, I don't think it's a slam dunk going to be a perfect situation as a lot of people do. I don't have that concern at all. Like, look, I love my brother. We would not do well in a locker room together. We don't have that kind of relationship.

We'd be, we'd be battling it out all the time and it would get ugly real quick. That's the kind of relationship we have. The Hughes's and the Kachucks are abnormally. close in my mind. All the, all the brothers that I know, there's kind of like a rivalry. These guys are so close. The Cucks and the Hughes, I do feel like, I don't, they're not, they're not stealing, you know, Brady and Matthew might be stealing time from each other and the puck from each other. Jack and Quinn play different positions. They're not really eating into each other. Luke's not even, Luke is like, he's like the tag along little kid who's like, okay,

can I play two guys? This is Jack and Quinn we're talking about. They're two of the best players in the planet. Luke's not that guy. No offense to Luke. I don't think there's, there's, there, there, there, there, there is enough puck to go around for Jack and Quinn that I don't think it's going to be an issue. To be clear, I don't, when I say there could be a problem, I don't think it's a problem between the brothers. I think it's between the brothers being close and the rest of the team. I think it forms, like like, like, like bad. Yes, that would be that would be my issue. I don't, I don't, I don't think the brothers are going to feud. That is, that is, that is, that is, that is, what, where I, where I was like, what I meant to go with that is, I think, I think, I think if things go wrong and their blame starts getting thrown around, it could be the rest of the players, maybe not being, correct with the brothers. And then it becomes the brothers against the rest of the team.

That's where I was going with it, right? That's what I meant, yeah. That's where I was going with it too. I think in Florida you have kind of this set. Like they've won two cups already. There's kind of this set structure there that you, I think Brady slots into that. Versus if Quinn goes to New Jersey,

it's very transparent that that is just like the Hughes team and everything else is kind of built around that. Even though Nico Heischer is the captain of it, like who's going to have kind of the sway, I guess, right? And I do worry about the power play thing with Luke and Quinn. I mean, I get what you're saying, Laz, that he's not at that echelon. Quinn is one of the premier players in the NHL, and Luke is a good player in the NHL. But they paid him like they expect him to be, you know, one of their top players, certainly.

And I think that obviously the brothers are going to want Luke to succeed as well. I'm not saying it can't work. I'm just saying I have a lot of questions about how it would work. And the clickiness is a big part of it. Not because I think that's guaranteed to happen. It's just, it's a risk. It is a risk. I feel like, you know, enough of these teams have, you know, leadership groups that do, like, the Blackhawks had Kane and Taves and Keith and Seabrook and then everybody else, right?

And that's just the way these teams are built. And if that leadership group happens to be brothers, I mean, I suppose, I, yeah, I can see the potential for bitterness to get in there if things go, if things go south. But I just, there's always a couple of guys at the top that control the locker room. If they happen to be brothers, I don't think that necessarily is a big deal. All right. Jesse mentioned Utah. I want to go there too, because I fully. agree with you, Jesse, that this is a year that Utah can make the leap. They go out. They trade for Vincent Trocheck. They add Anders Lee. You tease it already. I'll let you tee off on it. Yeah, they're just, they're really good. They're really young. They have players that like Dylan Gunther, Logan Cooley, that are on the way up. And I watched them, I covered the playoff series against Vegas. They gave Vegas everything they could handle. Now, I think like Carter Hart, that was his first

playoff series. He was a little rough in that series. He gave a couple games away. And I think that was part of why it was closer, but you could say that they gave Vegas more than Colorado did. They gave Vegas more than Anaheim did. I think that not only the talent, but also I love the way they play. They are a fast swarming team that gives you no time to think. They're on you. There's no time and space when you play against Utah. And they've got the skill to make you pay the other way. Like you can forecheck a team to death, but if you don't do anything with it, it's not as threatening. I think Utah, they've got the skill. They're one of the best passing teams in the league. I just think that this team is ready to take that step.

And then I love the additions. Like Trochec is the type of player that they needed. Like a guy who is even better defensively can kind of like mix in with that young talent that they've got. Give it more defensive structure on the back end because I do think that that was probably their weakest point was they weren't great defensively. Like they're great without the puck when they're pressuring you. But then once you get them in their own end, they weren't as good.

And I think all the additions this year, this summer, to me, strengthen what was their weakness. I agree. The Trocheck and Lee, that's like two of my favorite editions of the offseason for any team because they're very complimentary to what the mammoths do well, right? You got all these young skill guys. And you're coming two veteran, you know, work around the nets, play solid defense guys, makes a huge difference. I'm still skeptical of their defense. I'm really skeptical of just the fact that they're in the Central Division.

Like you mentioned earlier, Jesse, Dallas is not going anywhere. Colorado's not going anywhere. Minnesota's not going anywhere. The path to success in the Central is so narrow. But I love what they've done. And you mentioned Connor Hellabuck. again, if you get Connor Hellobuck, I'm looking at this team a lot differently than I am with Vemelka in that it makes a huge difference.

And as we talked about with the Capitals, there are young guys coming behind this too. Like, I don't know if T. Gingal is going to be an impact guy on day one or Caleb Denoia. But it's possible. Dmitri Simashev, it's possible. Like they have players at multiple positions, including premium positions, that there can be more help coming behind the young established stars. Like, yeah, I agree Logan Cooley, Dylan Gunther. They can level up.

Vincent Trojax's going to give them something they haven't had. There's also these names that we haven't even. really seen yet for them who can make impacts right away. I am fully in on the Utah mammoth as a potential, I would say potential conference finalist in the West. What does this feel like if you're a coyotes fan? Are you enjoying this? Is this still your team? Because you were watching these guys when they were in Phoenix and we live in a global world now where they don't have to be in your backyard to watch. Or you just like, God damn it, imagine if we had ownership that had a clue and could have like, because this is still so many coyotes

pieces that they're converting into this, like, you know, soon-to-be powerhouse. I don't know how you take that. I grew up an Islander's fan, and every year they threatened to take the Islanders away and move them to Portland or Kansas City or Quebec City or something like that. And I always told my dad, I would still root for them. Those are my guys. And if I had to put up, if I wear a Portland hat, then so be it. That's my team.

I don't know how long that lasts for it. I don't know how that really works when it actually happens to you and a team is ripped away from you like that. I think it's going to be on a base, like case-by-case basis with fans, obviously. but if it was me, I wouldn't want anything to do with them. Like, you left us. I don't know. What do you do?

Nobody wants to go running to Vegas. Like, who's your team that? You just stop liking hockey entirely? Fan of the sport. I don't know. Like, that's the way I watch the game. They will be back. They will be back.

It's a hiatus, right? So you're taking a break there. Second of all, like, the biggest difference, I think, between these, this Utah team and that Arizona team is the obvious one. It is the owner. Like Ryan Smith's stamp is all over this Utah team at all levels of the organization. Yes, a lot of the players came from Arizona. And if I was an Arizona fan, I would feel robbed of like, oh, my God, how long did I wait for Dylan Genther and Logan Greley type guys to come through this organization?

But you also had other prospects. You had other high picks and they didn't pan out probably because the organization was not as healthy as it is in Utah and under Ryan Smith. And I think that is like, when you say, like, is this the same team? There are some of the same players, but it is a totally different team, at least how I see it from the outside. It's like looking through a cracked mirror where it's like, oh, that's what it could have been for us if we had competent ownership. It's got to be brutal, man. I feel so bad for those guys. The way Ryan Smith has just completely transformed the view of that team.

Like, they wouldn't have got all these free agents. They wouldn't have gotten Mikhail Sergachev to sign the long-term deal without the belief in this, in the direction of this franchise that people seem to immediately have in Salt Lake. It's a great setup. They've got new facilities. You need an owner who doesn't care about the money, right? You need the kind of billionaire that looks at your team as a toy, a play thing, a fun thing aside. And not like, I need like the Pittsburgh Pirates guy who's like, I must make a profit off of this team in any way possible. So the nuttings are just like ringing them dry.

You need a Steve Cohen. You need whoever the Dodgers owner is. You need a Ryan Smith or Cuban, a Bill Foley. Someone who, like the worst is they make their money in booze. They don't make it in hockey. So they're willing to invest and spend and go crazy because it's a vanity project, right? I hate to say because, you know, billionaires are just fundamentally immoral to begin with. But you need the good kind of billionaire, right?

You need the one who's just playing to his own vanity here and wants a play thing. And it's so funny how that the attitude of your billionaire makes all the difference in the success of your franchise. I noticed you didn't mention Steve Ballmer there, Les. He has sincere regrets, Max. Sincere regrets. But honestly, like, even that's kind of an example. I'm not saying, like, you want the owner who's going to circumvent the cap, but you kind of want the owner who's like, hmm. Let me think about this.

I do really want to win. Well, that's what the Dodgers are doing with their deferred payments, right? You need a crafty owner. Yeah. All right. Speaking of teams that we think could take the leap, is it that time yet for the San Jose Sharks last? I seem to be in the minority here.

I don't think so. I don't think they're going to be very good at all this year. Like there's still a ton to like, you know, but it's all still in the future to me. You know, Celebrini is one of the three best players in the world already. That's great. Ascarov hasn't shown much yet. You know, adding Darnell Nerson, Jacob Trubo, excuse me if I don't get super excited about that for a terrible defense to make it any better.

There's still a lot of growth, Mises, nowhere near where he can be yet. I still feel like they're two, three years away. They were ahead of schedule last year, but if anything, I almost feel like they're due for regression, right? Like they were playing over their heads and they had a great overtime record. And it's tough to maintain that when you're still very much in the rebuilding process. And maybe I'm Chicago built here where I've seen how bad things can get. But I feel like they're not done yet with the process. I don't think they're anywhere near a contender yet.

I totally agree with that, but I also think I'm probably going to pick them to make the playoffs. I think they're going to be the fourth best team in the division, right? I think they're going to be the fourth best team in the division. And part of Chicago's problem is what we just talked about with Winnipeg and Utah is like, you've got monsters ahead of you. And to me, the Pacific Division, like Vegas is a shoe in, Edmonton is a shoe in.

I think Anaheim is going to continue the momentum. I don't know if they're quite ready to be a contender, but I think Anaheim is clearly a playoff team. And then after that, in the Pacific Division, it's like, okay, so who else? Like, I think San Jose is probably going to be the fourth best team in this division and going to be right around that wild card bubble. And a couple things go right. And these young kids take steps like obviously Celebrini's taking a step, but like Mesa, guys like that, the other youngsters on this team, Will Smith probably has a little bit. He still has some room to improve.

I think they could be the fourth best team in this division, get a first round playoff series, probably have no shot. at winning that series. But it's like you look at it as, okay, like, that was the next step we took. That's a valuable lesson that we all can take next year. And then there are a real contender the next year would be like the way I view it. So I do think they can make the playoffs, but I think they have no chance of coming out of the division. Yeah, again, there's no guarantee you're going to get five Central Division teams just because the Central is so much better than the Pacific. Because again, there's so much dead weight to feed on in the Pacific. You're going to wind up with more points than you probably deserve. If you believe in the Sharks to make the playoffs this year,

you are expecting it to go basically how the Anaheim duck season went a year ago, where you have this star center atop the lineup and celebrating obviously is certainly one of the best centers in the NHL already. There's no questions there. But what you want to see is you want to see an analog to Beckett Seneca, whether that's Evar Stenberg or that's probably actually who it would have to be. You're probably going to need Michael Mesa to take the leap. It's probably not going to be at the level. Cutter Goatee did a year ago. And then you also have kind of the, including one of the exact same people, kind of veteran defenseman, Jacob Truba,

was a big factor for the Anaheim Ducks can. He still be that for the San Jose Sharks. You go out and you get Darnel Nurse. And then crucially, you need what Dostal has provided to the ducks. And I don't even know that last year was Dostal's kind of best year. But he is that kind of security blanket for them still. You feel really good about him on any given night. And if Ascarov can be that.

That's what it would have to look like. I could still see it be another tough time pick. That's what I'm saying. That's a lot of ifs. It's possible. And I think that's what it would have to look like. I think it's just as possible. while they're picking top 10 again, which might even be scarier for the rest of the league.

Just give them another piece of ammo. Like this collection of talent is, I have to believe, going to work out. I'm not saying it's bulletproof. We've seen prospects miss before. But I don't know, I don't know which one's scarier for the rest of the league. Celebrini getting them there right away right now. Oh my gosh, they're already here or, oh, my gosh, these guys got another top 10 pick. Yeah.

You mentioned Ascarov. I think this is a big year for him. And I think that it's a surprise big year for him. I think two years ago, you would have never said that 20, 2026, 27 is like a big year because he's, he's still not where he, like, I think Ascarov has Vezina potential. I don't think he's anywhere near that right now. I think he's still a couple years away. However, this Sharks team is better than people thought. This, their, their window is coming sooner than we expected it to by like, I don't know, two years earlier. All of a sudden,

if Ascarov is still struggling, like, if he's, like last year, he, he was, there were stretches where he was just not good enough. He'll say it. His goalie coaches will say it. He needs to be better this year. And I think that if he's not better this year, the sharks could be looking for, like, maybe he's not the goalie to win in this window with. Like, maybe we need to go out and get somebody, Joshua Ravensbergen is a first round pick who's in the system, who has really high aspirations. Like, I just, it's, it's crazy to me that to even say this, but I feel like this is a huge year for Ascarov to prove that he's the franchise goalie in San Jose, and he's the guy they're going to win in this window with. I agree because Mike Greer has made it clear that, like, he's going for it

now. Like, they feel like they've already turned the corner. When they go, when you go out and add Darnell Nurse and Jacob Trooper, two, you know, veteran, veteran guys, you are, they, they, they feel they've turned to corner here. Like, in Chicago, Kyle Davidson, you know, Chicago and San Jose are kind of in that same boat for the last few years. Davidson's adding Bowen, Byron, taking a swing here, but they're still not really, like, like, Greer is like, we're done, we're done. We got the superstar. We are trying to contend right now. And I, you know, whether he's out over his skis or not, I think you're right. Like, if Ascarov does not show it immediately, they're going to start looking elsewhere to get that guy because they feel their window is fast, fast approaching.

All right. I believe in all of these storylines. I believe in their importance. I think we were right to talk about them. People are also listening to this going, you are an hour in and you haven't talked about Connor McDavid and the Edmonton Oilers. And that's where we're going to finish, guys, because that is the story that I think is going to be the splashiest all year.

It's going to be potentially the most volatile all year is that you have the best player in the world playing on a team, playing on an, it's not expiring. two years left on the contract, but the clock is ticking on Connor McDavid's time in Edmonton, and they bring in Mike Babcock. It's a powder keg potential. It could also work. Where do you land on it, Las?

This is what the players wanted. That's what all the... Is McDavid and Drysidal, they all decided, this is the guy. So they don't get to bitch if it goes wrong, right? That's what's the most interesting about this to me, is this is their chosen, you know, fighter here. We wanted Mike freaking Babcock.

Good luck, boys. We'll see how that works out. If it works out, then they're geniuses and all as well. If not, I mean, total disaster in Edmonton because Stan Bowman has done nothing to improve this team, right? Like every movie makes, it's like, you're like, really? That's what they're going for? They've added nothing of consequence outside of the head coach. And frankly, other than maybe Barry Trots,

there's no head coach that can come in and completely fundamentally change the way a team plays hockey. Mike Babcock is not going to be able to do that. He might, the league might have passed him by. And meanwhile, you got Connor McDavid playing for $10 million under market value as a show me we can win, and you have done absolutely nothing to show him that. I don't know how Stan Bowman still has this job the way it has gone. And good for McDavid for not giving him the long leash here because he's going to have one foot out the door pretty soon.

Yeah, I totally agree that this roster is just not as good as it was when they went to back-to-back Stanley Cup finals. Like it's, it's, the core is still the same. And it's like all the top players that we see are still the same. So we kind of in our mind, like, think like, yeah, if Babcock can just get them back on track, then boom, they're in the Stanley Cup final again. But bottom six is so important. Like, we see it all the time. When these talented team, when like Tampa Bay goes on their run, Vegas, the bottom six is so important. And I'm looking at their lines right now. And like this is just projected obviously. But it's like a third line of Trent Frederick, Jason Dickinson, Caspery Cappan, a four. fourth line of Colton Dock, Josh Samanski, Matthew Joseph. Like, there's a, like, the top of this lineup is going to have to carry the water. And it's a lot of water to carry. They haven't improved the goaltending. I think Devin Levi, who they traded for from Buffalo, he's been kind of toiling away in the minors for the last couple of years after showing some flashes in the NHL when

he first came out of college. I think he's got the potential to be their best goalie. I think he will be their number one goalie sooner rather than later. Wouldn't surprise me if he's the starter on opening night. But asking a goalie who's never done anything in the NHL to be the answer and help Connor McDavid finally win a Stanley Cup is a lot to ask. I think there are major holes on this roster. And let's not forget, like, who is Mike Babcock famously the hardest on?

It's those bottom six guys, right? Like, Connor McDavid is going to be fine. Leon Drysiddle is going to be fine. But you have to be a bottom six guy under Mike Babcock. That can go south real quick, especially if you're one of the reasons the team is struggling. Like, this could just snowball in such, like it's such, you call it a power. powder cake, Max, it's the perfect description of it because it feels like it gets exploded any second.

I think that's interesting, too, Laz, what you just said about hardest on the bottom six, because when I read the quotes in CJ's story from the European player tour with Leon Drysiddle about Babcock, and I would highly recommend everybody do that, he's talking about, like, wanting himself to be pushed, him and Connor to be pushed, the stars to be pushed. And I think there is something kind of maybe admirable about that from Leon, but if it doesn't actually play out in the way he's envisioning. You know, if it ends up being like, yeah, okay, he'll hold us accountable, but it's also not going to be a good situation for the other guys.

I don't know that it has ultimately like the desired effect in that way. Yeah, I mean, you look at like the New York Giants last night. You know, John Harbaugh comes in, works them to the bone in training camp. They look like a different team right now and they beat the Cowboys. Is that what Mike Babcock's going to be able to do at Eminton? Hey, if he does, fabulous. More power to him. And maybe it all works out.

But like, boy, I don't think it's going to all work out. I don't like that roster. They're so top-heavy, like Jesse said. And we've seen, look, McDavid and Drysidele can single-handedly, or double-handedly win series. We have seen that. Can they do it four straight times? I haven't proven it yet, right?

Yeah. You need goaltending. They still don't have a goalie. They still don't have any depth. It's still the same top-heavy team they've been for years now. We just don't see any improvement, if anything, they're only getting worse. In a way, I almost look at it like, hey, okay, they want to be held accountable.

they want to make sure that they've gotten everything out of themselves that they can. Great. Awesome. Love it. Yeah, same. But if it's like, if that's still not enough, then what else is there to do here? And maybe that's just kind of like, all right, well, I guess we tried literally everything. We brought in Mike Babcock to yell at us and it didn't work. We've been here for 10 years. Connor McDavid's second line center for the San Jose Sharks. That's what it depends. All right. I think I just want to end on that note.

Thanks for us for this episode of the Epitogacchi show. Appreciate you guys. guys for following the black t-shirt dress code today las we only docket for forgetting my blue uh but sean shot and frankie uh we back together on wednesday back with you here we'll talk to you soon