The Athletic Hockey Show - Top 100 drafted NHL prospects ranking

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Today, the guys break down Scott’s summer top 100 drafted NHL prospects ranking, discussing a new group at the top including Gavin McKenna and Ivar Stenberg, and arguing about the placement of guys like Gabe Perreault, Zayne Parekh, and Dmitri Simashev. Plus, thoughts on the pools of the teams with the most prospects ranked, the rise of Ilya Protas and more.Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerWith: FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here, alongside Scott Wheeler for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Corey Promin and Chris Peter is going to join us a little bit later on. As we talk today, Scott, about your top 100 NHL drafted prospects ranking. We did a version of this in the winter. You update it. Now, obviously, after the draft, there's a whole lot of new prospects.

And no surprise that one of those prospects, Gavin McKenna, is in the top tier. He's actually at number one on this list. And it's a tier of four players. And I'm curious for you. I know you felt McKenna and Stenberg are a dead heat pretty much the whole cycle. You have them one, two on this list. It's interesting. There's a couple guys from last year's class as well here, though, Porter, Martona and Michael Mesa.

How close is it between that group of four at the very top of your list? It was like a four horse race. Like I felt like I could have slotted those guys into any order you'd like. if you go back to my winter, I do this list twice a year, if you go back to my winter list, I had Michael Mesa ahead of Porter Martone. So that has flipped since then.

I think Martone's play sort of down the stretch, less so in the playoffs, but down the stretch of the regular season when he arrived, I think sort of edged him over Mesa. But I thought about Martone one. I thought about Martone

sort of wedged in between McKenna and Stenberg. I thought about Mesa one. It felt like those, were the four guys. And then you get into the D from the last few drafts and some of the forwards from the, some of the other forwards from the last few drafts. But it felt like Martona and Misa from a year ago and McKenna and Stenberg from this year, all four of them were really, really sort of tightly grouped. And those are the four best prospects in the sport right now for me. So you deal with this and Corey does too with his, because his even

include kind of full-time NHL players. I know you still kind of, even though Misa did play quite a bit in the NHL this year, he's still kind of classified as a prospect. Yeah. How do you compare those vastly different situations here? Because obviously, like, Martone comes up late in the year. It's a college hockey year. He's really good late in the year.

And Misa was playing his best hockey at that point in the season, too. Like, Misa's home stretch was actually his strongest NHL section of the year as well. And that I think is what makes it interesting. So you're comparing even those two situations are different enough. And then you get into McKenna and Stenberg, who haven't debuted yet. And like when you're looking at these things, how do you parse? I think with Mesa specifically, is the most interesting.

Like a guy who had a, I don't know, I don't think it was a disappointing rookie year by any means. He's an 18 year old, but it wasn't loud in the way that Martone's, you know,

memory, I guess is. And you also have to consider that Misa's the, of those four, Mesa's the only center, right? Like Mesa's the only natural center. He's the best skater of those four. And yet I've got him fourth on the list.

So it's, it's a tricky process to sort of parse through that. I ultimately came back to the offense that I believe is going to be there for McKennan's. Stenberg is just a tick higher than the ultimate offense that I think is going to be there for Martone and Mesa. Honestly, the sharks played a little bit of a part in it.

Like, it will just be harder for Mesa. I try not to spend too much time sort of considering a situation. This is ultimately supposed to be almost exclusively about the players, but it is hard not to consider that Macklin Sellebrini is there and that that's going to influence the type of player that Michael Mesa is going to be able to come in the prime of his career. So those, all of those things were considered. The two-way play, like Mesa's probably the most well-rounded sort of off-puck player of those four. So he's a center.

He's the better skater, all of it. So that, it really came down to the offense. Like, I think that nudged McKenna nudged Stenberg. I think, frankly, that Martone probably has a little bit more offense than Mesa, despite the fact that, obviously, Misa outproduced him at the junior level. I think at the NHL level that Merton were going to say. see become a premier, premier sort of modern power forward in the league that the size element sort of plays into it. It's a complicated process.

I think ultimately I came back with the two kids from this year. I came back to just the belief that they're, I think they're going to have a little bit more offense. Yeah. We're going to get into some of the kind of specific players with Corey and Chris as they join us later on. But I did as I was looking at kind of the shape of this list, Scott. Like the center conversation, I think, is one of the most interesting ones to try to rack these guys up.

And you have the number two center. You mentioned Mesa as the number one center as Caleb Melhotra from this past year's draft class. And there's a big gap, bigger than I expected gap between him and Caleb D'Noye. And I was surprised at Anton Frundell, as he speaking of guys who had really strong finishes to this NHL season was more toward the back half of the teens here. Yeah. That's just comes back to the sort of complete game that I think, Melrose. Malholtra has now. Danway has that, but I think there's more offense in Caleb. I think what we saw this year, distinguished Malhotra, they're both Caleb, distinguished Malholtra

from Deinue in that sense. I think he's got a little bit more pace. I think he's a little bit better skater. I think once he fills out, he's going to be a little bit bigger. I just think that very similar player type, very similar play style. They're just often described by the people who've coached them and been around them in sort of the very, very similar words for the two-way habits, for the commitment off the puck for the leadership, the charisma, the captaincy, all of those sort of little things that are very important when you add them up. I just think there's a bit of an offense divider and a bit of a runway divider and what I think Caleb can, Caleb Malhotra can get to over the next couple of years.

The other centers were close though. Like despite the, maybe there being a bit of a number gap between him and Vigo Bjork or him and Anton Frundel, if you go back to. my draft ranking him and Vigo Bjork were only two spots apart, right? Like they were very, very, very close and I still feel they're very, very, very close. And I could flip-flop on that. Frundel, I've always been a little, I mean, we've talked about Frundel for years on the pod now. I've always been a little softer on him. I think ultimately he's probably best suited to be a winger, frankly. I'm not convinced that I know they view him as a center in Chicago and they think that

Connor Baderd, Anton Frundel, and Frank Nazar are their three centers. I'm not convinced that Nazar and Frondel are centers. I think one of those guys may end up on the wing. I like Frundel as a potential sort of wall guy. I'm not sure he has the pace or the feet to play in the middle of the ice and be the best version of himself. I like him sort of being off the puck a little bit more, freeing himself for his shot a little bit more. So that factored into the Frundel sort of calculus. And I also just, I, he's never produced, like, Frundel has never produced at a truly, truly, truly, truly high-end level. Like, I've got a ton of time for the kid.

The kid's awesome. The player, the one-timer. But I don't think he's going to be like a premium, premium point guy in the NHL. And so that held back Frontell when I was sort of figuring out where those centers fit relative to the true sort of high-end wingers. And then Teage again, like may be a center. Like Teage played center all the way up. Then he played a couple of years of the wing.

and Teage is very, very high on my list, but he played center all of last year, and in speaking with people with Utah for a feature I did on him recently, I think they think that he might be a center for them long term. So Teage is kind of a wild card in there as a potential guy down the middle who could really point. It's funny as you say that about the Chicago center's friend L and Nazar, because I look at it and I think like, man,

I think that Connor Bidar has proven he can play center in the NHL, but I still think the best version of him might be on the wing. Yeah. You might want the centers to be Frondell and Nazer. So it's puzzle pieces. Even Kansarov, who we all expect will be a winger in the NHL and has been a winger for most of his career. Kansarov was a center, a first-line center in the KHL last year. Well, as we talk about these young players from Chicago, they have the most prospects in this top 100.

They have eight. And some teams that are going to be really, really happy to be in this conversation among them are some teams that frankly needed to be after how their recent seasons have gone. The flames and the predators, both with seven, the sharks and the Canucks, both with six. the sharks, I think, are the best, I mean, they are the best system, right? Yes. If you, if you waited this by where. All six of those are in the top 32. So the Blackhawks have eight spread across the list.

The sharks, all six of their guys that made the list are high on the list. And then you've got guys who just missed the Quinton Musties and the Luca Cagnonis and those sort of peripheral pieces that you're just hoping make it rather than you're sure they're going to make it like the other six names. And the other piece of the puzzle is that the goalie list is released separately and that my number two, ranked goalie is Joshua Ravensbergen, right? So they've got the goalie coming as well. There's a lot of high-end, high-end quality there. The Blackhawks and the flames and the Preds might have one or two more in terms of quantity on this list, but the true, the cream of the crop belongs to the sharks.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I think for the flames and the predators specifically to be on here, I think it matters a lot to be in this group. Now, it's not quite the high end. The flames do have Zame Perak up there. But I think the way they get there too is like a guy like Matveigreedin, who is really high on your list, who I don't know that a year or two ago we would have been talking about in that company. Yeah, Gredin was one of the risers of last year for me. Just incredibly smart.

Has that sort of unique, rare quality to slow it down and pick things apart, sees things on, and you could see it even last year with the flames. He saw things on the ice that nobody else on that flames team was seeing. and I think that really elevated him. Like he wasn't just a top six player for them by the end of the year. Matt Vigreedin was their best offensive player up front by the end of the year and their most valuable player on the power play by the end of the year. And that's not to say that he's going to be a point per game guy or that he's going to be that on a version of that team that contends for a Stanley Cup. He was a top end skill guy on a very, very weak team from a skill standpoint. But he's now a piece of the puzzle, like Grading.

now looks like in a similar way that Chernishov isn't a peripheral guy like a Quentin Mustie, Chernoshov has pushed himself into, okay, maybe I'm not a core piece in the way that a Misa or Stenberg or a Sellebrini or a Will Smith are, but I'm an important piece around that and not at the edges of that. Like, I'm going to play potentially with those players. I think that's what Greeden now represents to the flames. He's not going to be a number one or number two or number three by the time they're hopefully contending, but that's what he is for now. And you, you, you can feel a lot more comfortable now

that Greeden is going to be a fourth forward for you, like a fourth premium guy in the top six for you who can make plays and play on your, be one of the four forwards on your power play. Like, that's the kind of player that Greedon, I think, has now demonstrated he's capable of becoming. And with Nashville, I mean, they, they've collected a pretty good chunk of good prospects here, right? It's a similar story where, you know, Wyatt Collins, the highest rank guy, I believe, in this system for you. Yep. And, and the most recent first round pick, a lot of skill, obviously. How much of their system, though, is going to depend on what Brady Martin can get to?

Because they use a really high pick on him last year, obviously, famously ahead of Porter Martone. Player, you know, I really like Brady Martin. I thought his draft year, especially the way he closed his draft year, was really strong. But there was always that lingering thing of, like, how much offense is he going to get to? And that this past year did not change those questions. No, this, it was a tough year for Brady, not just in terms of him not pointing and sort of popping like you'd expect him to, but just the shoulder and the way that it bothered him and the way that it limits his game. He's a player who needs to be running guys over and in the thick of everything

and physical and chippy and competitive. And he still is those, he still was those things last year. And his high watermark before the shoulder flared up on him again, his high watermark was actually the world juniors where he was arguably Canada's most consistent forward before he got banged up again. but it just, we weren't able to see it over a full season, and we were able, by contrast, to see Porter Martone do what he did at Michigan State and then step right into the NHL. And I know for a fact that through my reporting for my mock draft and everything that year, it was between Porter Martone and Brady Martin for the Predators.

Like, they were close to picking Porter Martone. And ultimately, they take Brady, they take the sender. And then he has a year that isn't reflective of a top five pick, in part due to the injuries, but I think in part because he's not going to be a premium skill guy. Like people talked about him as Sam Bennett and Mike Richards and all of these guys, very, very good players, heartbeats of a team. Can he be a number one center on a cup contender? I think the answer is no.

Like that's just not what he is. There are people who think Brady Martin's a winger, right? Like there's debate even about that. So yeah, it's, it could, he's going to be a good player for them. I think he will find it hard relative to some of the players in that. class that have performed well and are going to continue to get better, I think it will be hard for them to look back on taking him at fifth overall and consider it a win. All right. Well, let's take a quick break right there. We're going to bring in Corey and Chris.

They're going to have their own things to bring up with you here on this top 100 list. We'll be right back. All right. We are back and joining us now, the athletics, Corey, Promen, and flow hockey's Chris Peters. And guys, you know the drill here. We usually do this on Corey's lists where this comes out and we have Chris and Scott pick it apart. We're going to invert things a little bit this way. So, Corey, as you look at Scott's top 100 here, what are the, what's the first thing that I guess jumps out to you about, you know, where guys are placed? The first thing that really stood out to me was where he had Demetri Sibbyshev, 42 or 41, I believe. And that's still a good spot on the list.

And I understand where there would be some reservations on Samba Shiff coming into the year. You look at his junior scoring record. You look at his KHL scoring record. He was always like this athlete, the 6-5-6-6 defensemen who can skate, but you always question, like, where's the offense? But then he goes to the American League this year, and I think he showed you why Utah took him, fifth overall, six overall, wherever he went, and he showed, you know, he was a top, top player in the American League as a 20-year-old, produced, played all situations. So, you know, I look at him versus Maltay Gossinson, who you have about five, six spots ahead. I look at him versus Sam Dickinson, who you have, like 20 to 25 spots ahead.

like what's like what's the rationale there i think it's the i think it's still a question of the offense like despite the fact that he played on the power play in the hl and pointed in the hl i don't think that's ever going to be a role that he plays in the nchel i expect and i'm not sure that malty gustafs and does either although i could see multi on like a pp2 um and i think sam dickinson same thing probably a pp2 guy uh i just wonder what the offense is going to look like like i wonder if he's just an excellent skating big excellent defending sort of 20 25 point guy rather than that sort of 40 45 point guy that I would have higher in the list, which is what I think, for example, that Dickinson is going to be. You think Dickinson's going to get to 45 points?

Like that on a regular basis? Yeah. Okay. And so why the gap between him and Maltae out of curiosity? It feels like they're, they're placed. It feels like they have almost identical skills. Yeah, they're very, very close in terms of the profile of a six foot. for good skater.

I think Malti at this age is harder and more physical and more competitive and just plays a firmer game than Simashev did at the same age. And I'm sort of baking in some runway there for Malti. I just see a guy who was, I would argue he was one of the five to seven best defensemen in the American League last year, the 20 year old. Like I thought like, I understood the concerns coming into the year. I just thought it would have, I thought the year he had this year would have moved the needle a little bit more. And he is higher. Like I, I'm doing my redraft. It'll come out the week after

sort of my final top 100 does. But I'm doing my 2023 redraft and ranking review. And I've got him, I think, I've got Simashev 12th or 13th in that class. You've got the sort of true, true premium eight or nine guys that have already sort of really established themselves as very good NHL players. And then there's a group of four or five guys that I think are in that next year. Like I wouldn't have I wouldn't have taken him fifth overall, but he was closer to fifth. He's, I think he's closer to fifth overall than maybe I gave him credit for in his draft year when I had him as, as kind of a late first guy. So I have, I have moved my over the last three years since he was picked.

Like I have moved my assessment of him up or sixth. Yes. Yeah. What it's worth, I was doing a redraft, he'd be, which I will do as well in a month or two. He's, he's going to be six on my redraft, just as enough. So we just, we have a little of a distinction there. Yeah. Yeah.

So I had him like 11 to 11 to 13. How different is he from Simon Edvinson for you? Because that's a guy whose production has been in the 25 to 30 range, but he's playing 22 minutes a night, top pair minutes. I know Detroit's not a playoff team. But it's like a clear top four. And I think I think solidly top pair projection there. And when I've watched him, he looks quite similar to Edvenson. I think again, more Evanson's more physical, more competitive than I think he's more skilled.

Like I had Evanston, I think I had him at like three at my list at one point in his draft year. And he was sort of top six or seven on my list for the entirety of his draft year. Like I was a big believer in his offense. I thought he had like legit hands, showcase legit hands in Sweden in his draft year. And I just wasn't there on Simashev at that same age. And I think since then I would just say that we've obviously seen it in Evans. And he's also older, obviously, different draft class. but I just think that the hardness, a little bit more hardness in Edvenson and a little bit of a higher skill grade for me.

Like I'm not, despite the points that we saw in the H.L. last year, I'm not convinced that there's, like, legit offense in Simashev. All right, Chris, so that was Corey's first guy that jumped out to him. When you saw this list for the first time, what was the first name that looked out of place in one direction or the other for you? Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I don't, like, I looked at Scott's list and I was like, I looked at Scott's list and I was like, like, you know, I tend to really get on Corey and get my, get my backup, just I think because I enjoy it. I didn't, I didn't have, I didn't have as many, like, passionate gripes. But one, one name that stood out to me, and I think it's probably because of his draft slot and, and I actually probably would have ended up being lower on this player than Scott was. And that's David Reinbocker. And, you know, that's a top five pick. I, I don't know what he is. I've watched him a lot in the

I've seen a player that that can do some things. I've seen a player that I always want to see more from. And, you know, Scott has them like in a, I think a reasonable range. But it's like, you know, when I look at, I see some of the guys behind him, whether it's one spot Sam Renzel or even, you know, K. K. Sean Aitchison and others that I think are probably going to end up having a better offensive profile overall than Reinhacher. And like I just I still don't know. And I think part of it's the injuries and like he hasn't had necessarily the smoothest development path. But as I watched him this past year, I saw a player that was better, but not good enough.

And the thing is that I wonder long term where he ultimately is going to fit as an NHL player. I mean, I think he will be an NHL player, but not anywhere close to the number five pick value. and I think Scott's rankings suggest that as well. But, you know, for a team that has been so good at the draft of late and getting their guy and, you know, this is one that I feel like is ultimately going to end up as a miss relative to the slot value. I just, you know, I'm more curious Scott just in the, for, you know, where you think he's going. Yeah. next because that's my thing is like I feel like the upside is still marginal like you can like is it a purely upside bet or do we think that you know this is kind of the make or break season for him

I think it's I think we're in that almost the exact same spot on him frankly like I think we're aligned on him that that range of of the list sort of the late 40s and I've got him 48 into the early 50s there's six or seven D in that group that all are in a run that I feel kind of this like I don't know what Axel Sandian Pelk is. I don't know what Sam Renzel is. I don't know what Kishon Hsson is. I don't know what Reddyem Murk is. Those are all kind of guys that clumped together for me as are they going to be good NHL players? Yes. Do any of those guys look like they're going to be core pieces? I don't think so. And maybe one of those guys breaks, breaks right and becomes that. Like I view Ryanbacker the same way I did on drafting. He's another

2023 guy. So he's top of mine for that redraft. for the same reason, but he's in the late teens in my redraft. And I just, like, I just view him at this point as, like, he's going to be a number four, number five guy, skates well, he's competitive, he defends hard, he's got enough poise on the puck, but he's not going to be a premium premium. He's not going to be, it's with the same conversation Max and I had before you guys hopped on about Brady Martin. Like, he's just not going to be a go-to top of the lineup.

25 minute a night guy. And maybe he is that, like maybe he'll be that kind of guy at the, for a couple of years, like maybe in his late 20s, he becomes that and he's making six or seven million dollars and he's a really good player. But I think by and large, he's Ryanbacker, you kind of have to project him at this point as kind of a bubble, second pair, third pair guy. I don't know if Corey would maybe disagree with that, but I kind of view him as a four or five. Yeah. No, yeah. So that, I, was actually going to ask Corey, because I know you were, you were definitely higher on, on Ryan Bacher as a draft, I believe, than at least I was. You know, what, what you've made

of his progression and just kind of what, what ultimately that projection looks like these days. I think a four is fair. I think, I'm not saying he had a great year, but I still think he had a good year. Yeah, it wasn't bad. Like, it wasn't bad. LaValle was one of the best teams in the league. He played heavy, all situations, minutes. I know he didn't. have like off the charts offense but there was still offense there when he's going to play with the national team recently like i think you know he's done well enough like i think they're still like he's can skate he can move a block he competes um good skill it's just not elite skill especially you know it's just he's a little vanilla like there's no thing about his game that there's no one

trait you hang your hat on um but he's a good player i think he plays the nchl i think he can play in the NHEL this season, quite frankly. But it's, I think, yeah, you're looking at that draft. And I think you're asking, like, how does he compare to, like, Tommy Willander as opposed to how does he compare to, like, Ryan Leonard and Will Smith and Mitch Collins and those guys at the tippity top of the draft. Yeah. One other note, too, just on this.

And, you know, is more just as I was kind of going through. And as, you know, you get further down the list, the D class really thins out fast on this top 100, which struck me. You know, obviously we see so many of the guys that just went higher on the list, which makes a ton of sense to me based on what we saw. But yeah, I mean, I think we're seeing a lot of those guys where, you know, some of those guys have, you know, matriculated that are their draft peers and matriculated to the NHL and aren't part of this. But then you look at kind of where we're at. And it's like, wow, you know, there's, yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting to see just kind of the thinning of the herd. And, and I can't really argue with it.

Well, a lot of the premium, the premium athletes all go center. And they all go really, really. Yeah. And there were 70 forwards and 30D on the list. And in theory, it should be six and four, right? Like, it should be 60, 40 rather than 70, 30, if you're just talking about a percentage of NHL players. And yet the guy, like, I think the final cut on D for me on the list was Oliver Bunk. Like, even the guys that are in my missed cuts list that I'll highlight in the piece that I highlight in the piece, they're not, like, they're not, like, Oliver Bunk's not going to move the needle for for the.

flyers, right? He's a piece of the puzzle. I thought Thomas LeVois could have made it on there. I thought, like, he had a really good year, a good playoffs. That was one name that I thought probably deserved. Other than him, there was no other defenseman I saw that. I thought, like, oh, there's, I can't believe that guy didn't make it. Yeah.

Corey, one of the conversations we had was about the center grouping. And one of the names who's in that cluster is James Hagan. He's pretty high in that cluster. He comes in as the number four center, number 13 player overall. but he's ahead of guys like Anton Frundel and Michael Hage, Caleb D'Noyer, Jake O'Brien. I was curious, like, what did you think of the Hagan's placement in the overall kind of center mix here? I'm not surprised because we had this conversation, you know, this time last year, and, you know, Scott had Hagen's very high, and so did Chris, and I was a little bit lower, and I wouldn't have taken him over Denauea. I still, I wouldn't take him now over Frondell, wouldn't take him now over Jake O'Brien.

but I understand, he had a good year. I don't think he had a great year, particularly his international, his world juniors were just okay. His world championships was less than okay. But his Boston college games were excellent. So I understand where that comes from. But I have some reservations.

Like, I think he's a really good skater. I think he's been a little up and down offensively the last two years. I think it's good offense. I don't think it's special, small guy offense. I don't think his compete is special, especially for his side. So I would prefer Dinoa. I prefer Frundel.

I prefer O'Brien. I think there's more to project there. But like I said, I mean, we've had these debates before, so I'm not really surprised. Yeah. All right, Chris. Any of the names for you here on this list that you want to hit before we move on? Yeah. So one of the names that jumped out immediately, and I know I started with Ryan Bacher,

but I wanted to get to this one as well, and that's Zane Perak, as high as he is. I have some deep concerns about his all-around game. I think the offensive game is good. I do also have some concerns about just kind of what we saw from him last season. He's always pointing, which is great, you know, like at the World Juniors and other things like that. But I also thought at the World Juniors, as much as he pointed up, there was a huge, he was a liability at that tournament. and then on top of that, you really didn't look prepared for the NHL. And I have some deep concerns about the developmental path for him going forward.

Now, he would have been a player that was tailor made for the argument to get a guy into the AHL at his 19-year-old season. And I think that that's ultimately where he should have been last year, which was not possible based on the rules at that point. So, you know, but the thing is, is that I don't see a place. that I could rely on in enough situations to warrant him, like, you know, if we're saying he's going to be among the top defensemen in this, you know, this next wave of players, I just don't think I would ever have enough trust in the player to, to play the

heavy minutes, to play anything where, you know, I feel like we'd end up on the minus far too much with him on the ice. Now, I do think that the offense and things, we, we probably had some of these same arguments about some of the other, you know, the other highly offensive defensemen over the years. I also don't know that like he has dealt with adversity all that well in terms of like when games are hard, um, when he is played physically, you know, those are the things where I have some more concerns just about the makeup of the player to get forward. So, I am prepared, Scott, for your impassioned defense of Zane Perak. I think seeing him, if you're watching him in the league last year, it was too much for him.

Yes. So I understand that. But he shouldn't have been in the league, which is a point that you already made. He should not have been in the league. I think at every level we've seen him play at previously, he has been a better defender than he has ever been given credit for. He was an excellent, excellent defender in the Memorial Cup against the best forward lines in junior hockey.

He was arguably the best defender across two different seasons in the OHL. He was a go-to penalty killer for that team. He played 30 minutes a night. He was never sheltered. There are things in the makeup, I think, that make you pause, especially how much he gets pushed off the puck. That is my worry in terms of his ability to defend at a high enough level to get out onto the ice enough to point. I think if he's out onto the ice, he's going to point in a way that none of the other players that are sort of in that cluster of D that I have at the top of my list will point, whether that's Chase Reed, D, D, D,

all of the players who are kind of in that, that cluster of D once you get through the true, true top four guys that we talked about off the top of the show. I also think that had I put almost any other prospect at five or six or seven on the list, you can look at that player after the McKenna's and the Stenbergs and the Martones and go, I don't know whether I feel good about that kid at five or six or seven. Like, I don't know whether I feel good that Chase Reed's at five. I don't know whether I feel good that Caleb Malholtra's at eight. Like I think there's a bit of a separation between the Porter Martones and the Evar Stenbergs and the Gavin McKenna's and some of those other kids.

kids. And so I did have a tough time putting players at sort of five, six, seven. And that's why that tier from five through to the 20s is as large as it is. It's normally not that large. Like, there's just a lot of players that I think are in that group. Could you put Chase Reed or Albert Smith's, my other sort of D that are right there, Carson Carls, ahead of, ahead of Zane Perak? Absolutely you could. Do they defend better than Zane Perk? Absolutely, do they do. I think part of it comes down to thinking that I think he's a better defender than people realize. I think he's got a good stick. I like his feet. I think he's going to be a passable defender. And I think the offense is like borderline special. Like I think he's going to be one of the big, big pointing

defensemen in the league in the way, maybe not in the way that Eric Carlson was, but there are some rhymes and reasons between that sort of laxadaisical, that sort of Eric Carlson, Evan Bouchard, the laxadaisical defender. Sometimes he's got one hand on his stick. Sometimes he gets pushed off pucks. But he's a, I think he's a better defender, and I felt that Evan Bouchard was a better defender through the early years of his career than people gave him credit for. And I think I feel the same way about Zane. Like, I think he's going to get there defensively. I don't think he's going to be a liability defensively. And then I think the offense is the realest offense of any of these deep prospects. And it might not even be close for me. Like, I think the offense is legit. So question,

if the offense is so special, why do you have nine points this season? Because he shouldn't, he was playing at a level that he wasn't. ready for. He was playing at a level that he shouldn't have been at. But is it I, even if he gets, there's no, other than Matthew Schaefer, other than Matthew Schaefer and Lane Hudson, name literally one young defenseman who's had success at that age in the NHL in recent years. I didn't say have success. I said like show I just, you're talking about special offense. That's why I'm like, couldn't he just like run into some power play points at some point here kind of thing. Like that's that that's my concern is like,

I think, yeah, I agree with you. If it goes well, he could be Bouchard. Like he does have that kind of sense, the skill, the shot. I just worry, like, I don't know if the skating special enough. I don't know if the offense is so special that, like, this could be Bokvis too, if it really doesn't go well. Like, there's, like, I think there's those risks. Whereas when I get to read, when I get to Rudolph and Carls and Smiths, like, I'm not, I think they could be really, really good NHL players if it goes well.

And I'm not thinking, like, it can be a complete disaster if it doesn't go well either. So that's my reservation. for getting involved for all those guys. I think from like a game breaking standpoint, a playmaking standpoint, that he's a way higher skill grade than than a guy like. Yes. Even if it's Brand Clark though,

like let's say that's kind of a middle ground one in that mold, right? I think he's, I think, I mean, he was way more productive than Brand Clark in the OHL. Like he's, he's done, he has done,

other than last year, he has been that guy. Like he has been the, he has shown that he's the premiums, that he's the hundred point. that he's the game breaker offensively in a way that none of these other D have. He's got great, great offense. I'm not disputing that he has offense ahead of a bunch of these other guys kind of thing.

Just to me, it's like, is it special, special offense? Like, is it the, you know, the Hudson level offense? Like, I have a hard time getting myself there from what he showed this season, quite frankly. He just didn't happen. I think you can't just write off the whole season because he was supposed to be in the H.L. He played. It went really badly. I mean, you also have to factor in that he was extremely productive in the

HL as a teenager, that he had 14 and 7 at the world juniors. Like there were, it wasn't a complete disaster of a season for him. The NHL was very, very hard. Yeah, he's a very good player to the offense, the brain, the brains is like off the charts. Like, it's like, it's just like to me, like, getting them over Carls and Rudolph and Smiths and Reed. Like, to me, like, there's, those are also really good players with a lot of offense. I do have Reed ahead of him, but yeah.

Okay, sorry, sorry. But I guess the same point applies, I think, to those guys. I think they all have a lot of offense. Like Rudolph showed crazy offense in the Western League this year, but he's also 6-3 and isn't a major minus defensively, as an example. Corey, I know when you do your version of this, you include NHL players, so it's not apples to oranges. But among the kind of this player pool, like, where do you think you'd ballpark him?

Like, in the early 20s or where would you have teens? Let's just say Scott not going to like it. No, I'm interested, though. It'll be after 50. Okay. Without NHL players. No, with NHL, he said. With the NHL players.

Okay, okay. So on this version, though, I think that probably translates to something more like 20. 20s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, early 20s is the back half of that tier. like early 20s is where I have

like Sam like Sam Dickinson was kind of in that range Dickinson 16 yeah like I hate to transition to the next section already but I like Hudson's projection Cole Hudson's projection more than more than correct because I feel like he's one he played well versus NHL is in his brief stint

this year but I feel like he competes harder and there's a little bit more that will I would have him over correct as an example yeah that's that's probably my one of my over writing concerns when I said like, you know, dealing with adversity and different things. I think there are, there are some ways, like it always felt like there was a way to get Perak out of a game, whereas I didn't see that with some of these other things.

Corey, you had one more player that you wanted to raise with Scott before we go to a couple of the guys that are the non-first rounders at the top of this list. Perrault, which I don't think is a surprise from people who've heard us talk about this before, but I just look at him ahead of Hage, ahead of Denoyer, ahead of J. O'Brien, Cullen, McQueen, these are all like premium premium pro prospects, guys who have, you know,

major offense to go with, like, significant, you know, tools and size, skating, you know, overall production profiles. And they got like this slow 511 winger who had a really nice year playing on two bad teams in Hartford and the Rangers. And I like him a lot.

He's a really good player. But like, these are like, Denoye and O'Brien are potential, Bequeenor potential top six centers in the NHL. Like, that's, like, I just can't get there. Like, you have to think basically he's Lucas Raymond, right? Like, that's basically what you have to think at this point to get him above those guys.

And I don't think you have to think that he's Lucas Raymond to get him ahead of Hage and Danway. Like, I just think you have to view him as a potential first-line winger where those guys are potential second-line players. Like I think that's, and even if he is a second-line player, I think they're close, which is why they're close on the list. Gabe Pro is the all-time single-season points record holder at the NTP. Still stands.

He had a 60-point college season. He has pointed in the HL. He made a ton of plays on that Rangers team towards the end of the season. There were some ups and downs for him at the NHL level. He was a driver on a terrible HL team. offensively. And late in the year, he was a driver. Say what you will about the team.

He was still a driver on an NHL team from a skill playmaking, getting his linemates into good spots, putting pucks into good spots, execution, power play. Like, I just think we've, with Gabe, like, I see no reason why he doesn't belong with Berkeley Caton and Michael Hage and Caleb Daynoye with what he has accomplished over the course of the career with the way that he thinks the game, thinks the game. I think Gabe is one of the smartest,

intelligent offensive players outside the NH like outside the NHL in terms of this group. It just in terms of the way that he thinks it offensively, the way he reads it. And I think the skill level is high, high end. And I've never felt that the competitiveness and the skating were, were nearly the sort of marks against him that some have like he, I think he skates fine. I think he works. Yeah. I think the skating is an issue.

I think he competes very well for a small guy. I just kind of feel like you basically are like hoping he's Marsha's so now. Like it's like I don't know, man. I think he's going to be like a 60, 70 point guy in the league. I think he's going to be more than that. Ooh, I think he's going to be more than that. So let's go back in time, if you will, to 2013-14 with the Tampa Bay Lightning. Nikita Kuturov, 18 points of 52 games.

18 points of 52 games. Gabe Perrault, arguably, was a more impactful rookie than Nikita Kuturav was. And I think at the, I don't think he's going to be Kuturov level points. I'm not to say that. I'm not saying that. He is one of the most intelligent players on this list right here. I think he has among the best hockey sense offensively of any player here. The question is going to be, and what Kuturov's benefit was, was that he did have one of the elite teams.

that he walked into where it was Stamcoast, it was headman, it was, you know, other guys like, that's not the advantage that that Gabe Perrault is going to have. But I think we, at the top of his projection, I do think he can be a 100 point player in the league. I think he can play top line minutes. And I think that this is, this is one where I, I was less convinced of that before this season. I, I, the games that I watched of him with the Rangers. Wait in the year. I was like, okay, it's going to work.

It's not only going to work. It's probably going to work really well. How is he different from Marco Rossi? What's that? How's he different from Marco Rossi? Same age. I think he's way, way, way smarter. Like the offensive IQ is at a higher level.

Yeah. And the role and the role is going to be different. I mean, Rossi is not like, I mean, he's, he's a center for one. You know, like, I mean, like there's, there's a lot of, things that he's going to have to do. But I think, like, I look back and I say, if they can get some support, because the thing that Gabe has always done well is make others better and also take advantage of the skills around him. Now, he's had great players that he's been able to play with coming up through the ranks, namely Will Smith and Ryan Leonard. I have always thought that

because of the physical talents and the more flashy talents that the players have had, he's been underrated, but I think the brain and the hockey sense of him is Kucherov level, which I think I think he's closer to Michelli than your team off quite frankly. I think you're crazy. I think like that's bananas. Like, like watch a freaking game. Like seriously. I mean like are like Machelli?

Come on, man. A guy that could not even get qualified this year, give me a break. Machil was amazing in the American League and he had that great throw in the NHL and then he didn't a wall. He's 5.11. He can't skate. He does not have the level of hockey sense of Gabe Perl. Get the heck out of here.

And pre-NHL, it's not even close. He lit up Liga. Yeah, if he was drafted. I don't know. I think you guys, I think you guys. This is a wide gap. I mean, the names that are being thrown around on both sides here. Corey has always hated Gabe Perrault.

He's always hated him. He's always hated him. He's never liked him. He's never liked him. Chris, if you are saying that he's more than a 60 to 70 point player. Like, do you think he's the best of those three, Smith Leonard Perrault? I think all of them are going to be a, like, I think, I think,

Ryan Leonard's a 40 goal score. I mean, the way the sharks are going, Will Smith is going to be a 100 point player. Like, I mean, like, these are, these are legit. That's the one, it's going to be the greatest line that, that, you know, probably one of the greatest lines in the history of the NTDP outside of probably Matthews Kachuk and Roslick. So, you know, like, that's, that's where. you know, I just think that there is an absolute chance that Gabe is going to be, you know, a top line productive player.

All right. Really good stuff there. Last thing I want to hit before we go, Scott, is there's three players. Most of the guys at the top of this list, no surprise, are first round picks. In many cases, high first round picks. There's three guys in the top two tiers, which comprises the top 28 spots on your list that are not first rounders. One of them, Corey already touched on in Cole Hudson. and it's telling that the Gwashedit Capitals, by the way, have two of these guys,

because another one is Ilia Proto's. And Scott, Ilya Proto is a guy that we've certainly talked about on this list, or on this podcast, but a guy who is really, really high on this list ahead of some much more household names. I just wanted to give you a little bit of a chance to talk about Proto and how he's put himself in this territory. His spot on this list is number 14. So ahead of Anton Frundel, ahead of Caleb N. Ahead of Jake O'Brien, like guys who went really high in the draft,

Ilya Protois is now in that company and in your list ahead of that company. I just think there are, you can count on one hand the number of players in the NHL that look like him, one of them being his brother. He has had two of the best seasons in the OHL and in the AHL for a player his age in recent memory, and he's done it back to back. His season in Windsor, I thought he was arguably the best player in that league. and his season in the HL this year

he was a dominant force at times and not just a dominant force because of his size like legit legit puck skill I actually think from a from a pure skill standpoint that Alexi his older brother

does it more with his size and Ilya does it more with pans and with small areas and with making plays that you just don't see big men that size make I'm just fascinated by him like I just think he's such a unique

player and what he's done over the course of the last two seasons, I think put, like, if you're redrafting that class today, like, he might be a top 10 pick. Like, I think that's the kind of progression that we've seen with him. And it's, it's, like, you watch back through some of the goals that he scored, some of the plays that he's made. Like, he's not just a big guy who's in the right spots and making the odd play. Like, he makes legit, like, highlight quality plays and has at lower levels. We'll see what it looks like at the NHL. He pointed right away in the NHL last year, but it was a brief stint and the way that they've added on the wing, I do think there's a bit of a, like, with Kyru and some of those guys now, I don't think he's necessarily going to play to start the

year in the NHL, and he's going to be in the NHL to start the year. But I think he might be in more of a bottom six role after they put him in an opportunity to start his NHL career in a top six role. But I think he's going to get there. Like within a year or two, I think you're going to see him in that kind of a role, and he's going to be a pretty unique player in the league. And to have both of them be what they are and what they could be. I just think it's a really, really compelling sort of pair of players for that team. Yeah, I, I'm fascinated by him. You know, just the progression, what we've seen.

I agree with you, Scott. I had zero issue with where he ended up on the list. You look at the guys that have, you know, in the H.L. That have played at his age, in terms of raw points in the last 20 years, he's second only behind JJ Peturkin. I think it's by two points. And then, you know, points per game. It's a little bit different where he's just slightly under a point per game,

but he's still top 10 in the last 20 years. You look at the names on that list, Willie Neelander, Miko Randt, and David Paschnack, Phil Tomasino, Trevor Connolly this last year. Lucas Reichelichol, Consellenius, Alexander Holtz. So there's a mixed bag there in terms of the players, but you look at the top of that list, and then on top of it, he's a monster of a human being. You know, so like, it's like, okay, yeah, I see all those guys. That's great.

Wow. okay, this guy is six foot six. So, you know, like it's, he's, he's a remarkable talent. I think watching him with Hershey, and this was a down year for Hershey. Hershey kind of turned the team over to the young guys. It was him and Andrew Crystal, and it was like, you know, a bunch of other players that, that, you know, normally that's a very veteran-laden team. They didn't have the success as a team that they normally have, but he was a, he was the show.

He was absolutely the show there. He did it in the playoffs. He did it in the regular season. I think he's, he's on a, on a remarkable track. And what a great fine for the caps. I mean, 75th overall, out of the Des Moines Buccaneers, goes to Windsor, destroys the OHL, then comes to the HL. I was like, how is this going to work?

Destroyes the, you know, that relative destroys the HL for a player of his age. So I'm really excited to see where he goes. I think I agree with Scott. Like the transition of the NHL is going to probably be a little bit different in the role. And based on what Washington added this year, it kind of pushes him down the depth chart. But at the same time, that's a guy that, you know, if he's continuing on this trajectory, I really don't know how much, like, the sky could be the limit for him on this, on this, you know, this potential. Um, I'm fascinated by the player. It is interesting that all

these, this profile, whether it's Protis, Jack Nesbit, Ethan Belch, is like, Bill just like Bill Bowler just has a magnet for this, for this kind of like halting guy with fuky offense. So yeah, it's kind of like Vince McMan. Yeah, it's like Vince McMahon era, you know, 99. trees if you're big yeah green tree like they they had they had a lot of trees last year yeah no kidding all right uh and then the last one that i want to talk with cori you can go back to cole hudson too cori if if you if you want to but i felt like you gave a pretty good overview earlier but roman cancerov's another guy here and i know that this is a guy who chicago fans are really

excited about what he could bring to their lineup this year well cancerov has done as a pro has been extremely impressive i mean he was one of the very best players and one of the very best teams in the khl last season um you know he skates really well He's got a lot of offensive skill. I think people will look at his size on when they look up his stats and be like a five-nine winger, like how does that translate? And the way he plays, I think, is going to translate into significant NHL offense. This is a hard guy.

This is a guy who gets to the neck that he wins a lot of battles. He's chippy. Like, and he has great skater. Yeah, like he has all the aesthetics. But then like the way he plays, it's not like he's not Caprazov, but like that's what made Caprazov success. as a pro was his compete combined with his skill. And I think that Kansarov has the making of a potential top six forward in the

NHL. How did you guys feel about his postseason? Because that was a different, you know, that he was far less productive at that stage. And also like his points were kind of bunched. There were a lot of games where he wasn't, you know, wasn't as much of a factor. Is that a concern for either you guys? Jirovsky, too. Yeah.

Off as a league. Surin, all those kids, all the top Russian kids struggled in the playoffs this year. Yeah, and that's why I always think it's impressive when a guy does do well a playoffs or in the MHL playoffs. The gap in the best and the worst teams are so big in that league that when they get to the playoffs, it's closed. And when a guy like a Pugachev has like a good playoffs

or CERN has a good playoffs, never mind, Demidoff too, it's always much more impressive than the regular season. For sure. Yeah, I don't think it's a big issue just because, one, he's just so young. Like, he's just, there's only, a couple of years away removed from the draft and the level that he showed in the regular

season is still like I said I think you have reasonable debates about whether it's special offense special small guy offense but I still think you can get to second line offense maybe first line offense if it really goes well yeah I can buy that all right uh let's wrap there a lot of good stuff today really would encourage everyone to go read scott's top 100 drafted NHL prospect story too and there there's more there too that we certainly could have gotten to today. But that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening this episode of the Fletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Remember, you can catch more of Chris over at Flohockey on his podcast called up. We'll talk to you soon.