The Athletic Hockey Show - Top hockey storylines on the horizon in 2024

Episode Date: January 2, 2024

Ian Mendes, Julian McKenzie, Mark Lazerus and Sean McIndoe discuss major storylines on the horizon in the hockey that they're looking forward to covering in 2024, including the launch of the Professional Women's Hockey League in January, closure on the 2018 Team Canada scandal, a new arena in Arizona, new contracts for William Nylander, Leon Draisaitl, Elias Pettersson and Steven Stamkos. Plus, some clarity on Olympic involvement and the best on best tournament and if Alex Ovechkin has a shot to break Wayne Gretzky's all time goal scoring record.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Well, happy New Year, everybody. And welcome to 2024. And welcome to a brand new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And just like we wrapped up in 2023 with that four-headed monster, what do we call ourselves, the M, 4M with Mendez, McKenzie, that can do Mark, Lazarus. We're back, the four of us, to tee up.

24. We've each been issued from the New York Times in the athletic a crystal ball to look and to gaze into 2024. Everybody got their crystal balls, right? Julian, you got your crystal ball? I broke mine already. I've got to run a software update on mine, but it's almost ready. Sean, what's your excuse? I just, I mean, probably sitting in the mail. I haven't checked it since, you know, since all. crazy holidays that, boy, doesn't that feel like it was so long ago already? By the way, what are the odds? The four of us are back together a week later.

We're all wearing the exact same outfits. That's crazy. Yeah, that's so weird. The magic of podcasting. It's just my schedule for wearing this sweater. That's how it works. Man, I didn't realize that until I just, oh, yeah, look at that. Man, so we're going to look ahead at the year coming up.

And I think it's great because we had the launch of this already. but the PWHL has launched. And I think of all the things in hockey that we should embrace and be excited about and it's a six team league. You know, for the last, I don't know, decade it's felt like there's been multiple factions and warring entities and they can't get traction.

They finally got their financial house in order. And, you know, Laz, I'll start with you on this. Professional women's hockey is here. It is a brand new league. And it seems like something that, can finally get behind here in in north america i hope so i mean it's anyone who's watched international women's hockey knows how good the game is how exciting it is how you know there's still to this day the best hockey game i have ever been to was the canada u.s game in sochi

during the 2014 olympics the women's game uh that was the most excited i've ever been during a hockey game i didn't have a rooting interest like the game is great um i have my concerns i don't want to come in right away and be debby down here but the whole like you know there wasn't time for the branding. I understand the logistics of it, but so much of the appeal of sports, especially for new teams trying to find new fans, is the gear. It's the identity. It's the uniforms and having generic teams without mascots, without names, you know, just like, you know, the team is Toronto. Like, that's, that puts them in on the back foot early on. And I hope that they can overcome that. I'm sure they will. The game will be good enough. But that's a big part of how

you reach new fans is through marketing and through merchandise. So I hope that they can move quickly on that, come up with some killer names and some killer jerseys. And I think that this league has a really good chance of taking off because the game is going to be so good. Man, I can't wait to see it in action. I also can't wait to see what type of merch we get. Mark brings up a really good point with the fact that the branding isn't all the way there. That just makes me think of the WNBA. And when they had that really popular orange sweater with the logo. That was like the hottest piece of sports apparel that year.

And you were seeing women wear it, men wear it. I would love it if the P. Dub would find a way to come up with some gear that would find a way to appeal to so many hockey fans, male, female, non-binary, or otherwise. But also just being able to watch a league where the best players in the game are all in one space and you're not, it's not like in the past where the C-dub existed or the N-dub existed and you're seeing all these players divided between two leagues, just having one league and having broadcasters who can air it, right? The CBC is going to be airing games here in Canada. So that's going to be a really good place and a viable place for people to watch games, at least in Canada. So I'm all for this

league, obviously, and I hope they see success. And I just hope it sees nothing but growth from here on now. Yeah. And I mean, you talk about the marketing and obviously not having the jerseys and the logos hurts, but ticket sales look pretty good. I mean, Toronto sold out. And I, you know, I was thinking of taking the family to the home opener in Ottawa tonight. There's no tickets. It's been sold out for a little while now. And, you know, I'm going to be really honest here. For most of 2023, as this story was playing out and you had the leagues folding and then, you know,

the new league was coming in and you had the signings and the draft period and all this, I didn't pay a ton of attention to it just because I was focused on the NHL. That's my job. I'm an NHL columnist. That's what I was paying attention to. And so it was just kind of something happening in the background. And I, you know, I'm rooting for it because, you know, we want to see the women's games succeed. We want to see, you know, a lot of these great athletes have the chance in some cases to play pro for the first time or to play on a big stage.

You know, all of those reasons why you just, you kind of want to see it succeed. But then a few weeks ago, I sat down, they asked me to do sort of a fans preview of the new league. And so I sat down and, you know, I worked with Haley and Shane a little bit and got, you know, got myself caught up to speed. And I'm going to be honest, man, I was writing this thing. And I'm halfway through and I'm like, this is cool. Like, you know, put aside that, you know, it's a women's league. This is just a neat hockey league starting six teams, got that original six vibe. You've got all of these stories playing out of, you know, that are just great sports stories, you know, the, the player who who wasn't drafted, who was.

expected to be. So they're coming in with a chip on her shoulder or the, the player, the players who were rivals in college or certainly internationally. And now they're going to be on the same line. The, you know, the 22 year old kid from Japan who's coming over. And it's okay, well, boy, what is this all about? You know, how is she going to play when she's playing with this top international talent instead of against it all the time? I just found myself, it was like a fire hose of great storylines where just as a sports fan, I'm just sitting here going, man, even if I, I, even if I wasn't into the women's game, even I wasn't into hockey, it's not that hard to get sold on this and just sit there and go, I'm really interested to see how this turns out and the different approaches that different teams took and the star power on some, some teams go young, some teams go veteran. There's a lot of interesting stuff here.

I'm legitimately looking forward to this, not aspirationally because, oh, I hope it does well, just selfishly. As a sports fan, this looks like it's going to be really fun. Now, Ian, according to Sean's law of the contrary, and you have to come down on the other side of the stuff. Why do you hate women, Ian? Let's hear it. Okay. So let's make sure that the camera's rolling. Make sure my mic should. Let me tell you why. Yeah. Can you imagine? Dick Fedos is now joining us and he's going to step in and let us know. Oh, my goodness. You know, but one thing that that Laz said was, you know, how engaged we get with Team Canada, team USA, best.

on best. Sochi and the Olympic, like it's so memorable. Every time Canada and USA have played it best on best, it's been amazing. And I'm not going to lie to you as an NHL fan. I look at that with a great degree of envy in the last few years because I feel like, oh, best on best. That's what it looks like. That's what it should feel like. And so I ask you guys, we start to again, spin forward here in 2024. Julian, do you think we get by the end of this year, we get clarity, we get, we get a concrete plan for best on best with NHL players. World Cup schedule, Olympic schedule. Are we feeling optimistic here at the start of 2024

that we'll get what we want by the end of the year? I want to say yes. I really, really want to say yes. I feel like the fact that we have some idea in mind at this point about what it could look like in 2025, that is giving me hope for wanting best on best. if it's going to stick to that every two-year schedule, 2026, 2028 we get a World Cup and the Olympics.

That might be a little bit different. But at least for 2025, the fact that, I mean, just at the athletic, not too long ago, we had mock squads for a fictional four-team, four-nations cup in 2025 for Canada, United States, Finland, and Sweden. Like, that gives me hope. Like, we wouldn't just do that for just to do it.

You know, like, or maybe we would. I don't know. Subs and all that, right? Page views. But like, I really want to believe that this is going to happen. I really think that for the men's game, considering its place in the big four of sports, they need best on best.

In terms of the NHL doing everything it can, everything it can to appeal to more and more Americans, seeing that Team USA on paper is projected to be the favorite, they need a tournament like this to get more. more bums in the seats in the country they want more and more capital from. Like I really want this to work out. Look, I want this. I'm still expecting it to somehow fall apart because this is the NHL we're talking about.

They don't want this. The NHL does not want this. They do not think it grows the game. They think that the times of the games are on too late or on too early for it to make an impact. They hate shutting down in February when they're the only game in town, the only month. They don't have to compete with football and baseball. We've seen John Tavaris and Sochi. We saw Kirby Doc at the World Juniors, Edwin Diaz at the World Baseball Classic.

We've seen enough catastrophic season-defining injuries in non-NHL games. I want this. I want this, but the NHL really, really doesn't. And they're going to either they're going to try to get the most concessions they can get out of the players to allow this, or they're just going to come up with some excuse not to do it. I have no faith in the NHGs. I view it as two different questions. The World Cup and the Olympics. I have no faith on the Olympics and you know, Ian, you said, is there going to be clarity by the end of 2024? No,

because there will still be time for them to pull the rug out from under us. It was about a month ago where Gary Batman was already go, ah, you know, they're behind schedule on the arena. And you could just feel the trial balloon being floated of, you know, okay, maybe this will be the excuse? Now, a World Cup, yes. The question is going to be, will it really feel like a best on best or if we don't have Russia, how do you handle some of the other teams? If it's just a four-team tournament, does that still feel like a true best-on-best? Look, at the end of the day, give me Austin Matthews versus Connor McDavid. Give me Canada versus USA.

If I don't have the rest, even if it's just that, give me those two teams, play a best to seven, best of five, something like that. You know, do something, please, because it is absolutely ridiculous that Connor McDavid is, you know, sitting here about the, you know, he's going to win his fourth MVP and he will never have put on a team Canada jersey in a legitimate best on best. It's, it's so ridiculous. It is the, of all the North American sports, it's the one that lends itself best to this. We've seen them go to the Olympics and have sky high monster ratings when they got those, you know, Canada, U.S. gold medal game. So it's not like there's not proof of concept.

It, to me, it's so frustrating. Like I said in the last show, you're in the entertainment. business guys. This is what everybody wants to see. And the fact that they seem so reluctant to give it to us in any kind of real format is just, it just feels like stubbornness at this point. Conor-Rate David has no loyalty to Canada. His loyalty is to Team North America. Thank you. That's right. And I still don't think Team North America is a gimmick. For everyone who says it's a gimmick and people who hate it on it. It was the best thing ever. Yes, literally. The most memorable thing from the last World Cup is Team North America beating Sweden in overtime. And all those players thinking that like they had made it to the next round.

Bring back team North America, bring back team Europe, bring back all these gimmicky teams. If we're going to have a World Cup, we've already had those teams in there to begin with. Why not just put them back there? I can understand why you don't want them in the Olympics. And I understand we all kind of feel a little weird about, not just weird about the Olympics, but we're,

I don't know if those players are going to go back to the Olympics. And I get Mark explained it as eloquently as he did. But you know what? We're going to do it. Do it in the World Cup. I don't mind. Bring it back. have the best under 23 players on a team. It's fun. It's cool.

Why do we hate fun? Why is, it's one thing for the NHL to hate on this? Why are grown folk who cover the NHL, who cover hockey? Why is that the fig for them to just be stilion on and be old stockmen? What is this? What is this?

There's so many different things you could be hating on. You're going to hate on this? You're going to hate on something that people actually like it. Hold on. First of all, there's so many things to hate on. I can hate on a lot of things. Okay. Don't act like, don't act like my focus can only be on one thing to hate about the NHL.

I got it covered. A lot of stuff. Team North America was very cool. I just, to me, if you're doing best on best, it's got to be real. I don't like having the, you know, team Europe, team North America, that sort of thing. But I am, I will acknowledge old and cranky and, you know, waving my cane around here. So no, take it as you will. I'm with you, Sean.

If, if there was, let's say an Olympics, every four years with Best on. best, I'd have more of an appetite for the weird team North America. When we don't have best on best, get out of here with this stupid gimmick. Like, I don't care. I don't care. This is just, it's part of the American conspiracy to keep Connor Bedard off team Canada in the next best on best. You're afraid of us.

Come on, Badard fan Tilly Carlson, right down the middle. How great would that be? Oh, man. God. You are, or even better. You're telling you. Here's how you do it. You bring back Team North America intact from the last one.

Yeah. And you fill up Team Canada with everybody else. Team North America. I think I did a column where I was like, Team North America versus everybody right now. Like who wins. And it was close. That's what I want to see.

Man. All right. One more item I want to hit on looking ahead to 2024 before we take a break. And I'll be honest with you. And we'll take a little bit more of a serious turn here. but if you would have told me exactly a year ago, first week of January of 2023, that we would go through the entire calendar year

without getting any clarity or closure on the 2018 World Junior Hockey Championship, hockey Canada thing. I would just say, what are you talking about? Come on. That's crazy. But here we are. No definitive story or closure to this.

Where are we at with this guys when it comes to 2024? like like Sean I'll start with you on this one are we just at the point where we're like okay like they just keep punting punting this thing will just get perpetually punted and we're not we're not going to get closure on this one well it it better not and I know everyone is very eager to see this resolved at the same time this is a extraordinarily serious subject with extraordinarily serious consequences for everyone who was involved or not involved and this to me out of anything, and I'm a media guy. I am naturally inclined to say, give us the information, tell us more than you're telling us.

Out of anything, given that there's still an active investigation going on slowly, but still active, given that there's all sorts of legal ramifications for what the lead does or doesn't do, I would say take your time and get it right. Now, I would have said that six months ago too, and I would not have envisioned that take your time would have brought us to here. But this is something where I would rather see absolutely every loose end closed up

and make sure that you get this exactly right and don't have the worst case scenario, which is you push something out the door and some crack somewhere gets left open that consequences can be avoided or mitigated somehow because something got out there. I know it's extraordinarily

frustrating as just a fan of sport to see this hanging over everything. But there may be reasons for that. And if so, I'm, I'm okay with saying, you know what, take your time, but then you better get it exactly right when the time comes. I mean, Sean's, Sean's 100% correct. Obviously, he's right. But it's funny, for the entire summer and early fall, like every Friday around like 4.40

p.m. Yeah. I would get tense. And I'd be on Twitter going, is it coming? Is it coming? He's like, I'm probably going to have to write a column off of this. Like, I'm waiting for this shoe to drop for so long. And I hate to say it, but like, everyone, like, by dragging it out and kicking the can down the road even farther,

you're just keeping the cloud of suspicion on a presumably innocent people too, right? Like, I know everyone who's on that team. Those names are seared into my brain right now. And when I'm writing about hockey and I'm in the locker room and I see someone who is on that team, I'm thinking twice about what I'm writing about them. I'm like, do I want to praise this person? Do I want to have, do I want to write about it? this person in any kind of flattering light knowing what possibly could have happened five years

ago. And until their names are cleared, that's hanging over all of these guys right now. And that's unfair to them. So they, this is, man, I know these investigations take a while, but this is taking a very long while, a lot longer than any of us anticipated. And as long as they don't release the results of it, there's suspicion on people who shouldn't be suspicious. And there are people playing in the league who should not be playing in the league. That's the number one thing. And, By dragging it out, you're just extending those circumstances. I just want to know at this point, similar to Mark, I thought we would know about this in the dead of summer when everyone's away from their phones and laptops on a Friday afternoon, a typical Friday news dump. I thought that by the beginning of this NHL season, we would have heard something.

And the big thing to start off the year would have been us talking about the players who were suspended or, whatever the punishment is going to be. We're in 2024 now, and we don't have any clarity on what's going on. I'm surprised, but at this point, you know, I just want to know. I just want to know what the result is going to be. I just want to know,

like, I don't want to have to think about this story, to be quite honest with you. This is just this awful, it's an awful story. And we've seen a lot of great coverage on this, but I'm at a point now where I feel like I just I just want this past. Like I want to figure out what's going on.

I want to read whatever story and columns coming after this, but just like I'm tired of waiting. And so many media members and other people around the league have been waiting for so long and guessing and trying to figure out who was there, who could be implicated, all this speculation behind the scenes. I'm done with it. I just want to know.

All right. I'll take a break here. It's a natural time for us to pause because we do have some other stories. we want to focus on looking ahead to 2024. When we come back, we'll discuss where Alex Ovechkin will be in his pursuit in chasing down Wayne Gretzky. And we'll also chat about Joel Quenville, Stan Bowman, and some others, whether or not there's space for them to come back to hockey in 2020. As we look ahead to 2024 and we look into our crystal ball, Sean, I want to ask you, Alex Ovechkin in his pursuit of Wayne Gretzky, which I think at the start of 2023, we would be like, oh, yeah, this guy could even. chase it down late in

2024, early 2025. I'm not so sure. How interested are you in Alex Ovechkin, the player, in 2024? Very interested because of the record chase. This has the potential to be a fantastic story

and it has the potential to be a story that goes outside of even just the hockey world because you don't have to know anything about hockey to understand what's going on here. It is the biggest easiest to understand record in the sport. It was supposed to be unbreakable.

And now here along comes a guy who has the potential to break it. And, you know, it's an easy story to sell. I am looking at it going, man, for years, this became apparent this was going to happen. You had people saying this would be the greatest thing ever. I hope he does it. You had other people saying, ah, you know, I'm a Gretzky guy. I'm Canadian.

I don't want some rushing gun or whatever it was, the traditionalist saying, I hope he doesn't do it. I feel like the one thing we could have all agreed on, though, is if he's going to break it, let him break it in the Ovechkin way being a dominant player, being a very good player, please don't let him just drag this out where he's playing three years past the point where he should have and getting 15 goals a year still trying to chip away in it. We're a long way off from that. But, man, you just hope that one way or another we get that definitive answer of either,

no, he can't do it or yes, he did. And it's not like, okay, well, you know, hasn't scored in three months, but he's still four goals away. So let's hope he does it. It's one of the most remarkable goal scores of our time. And this is the first time in a long time where we're looking at him. We're like, wow, he's slowed down. But at least in the past, you could say, you could realize, oh, okay,

that the head coach he had and coach and Gibb hadn't wasn't right. putting him on his offwing. This is the first time we've been smacked in the face with regards to Alexander Ovechkin's career, that time is the ultimate equalizer and decider of careers. We've just kind of taken a little bit of that goal scoring prowess for granted. One of my favorite things up until this year is seeing where Alexander Ovechkin ends up in everyone's like fantasy drafts, right? Like everyone has a fantasy hockey team.

They pick all these players. Alexander Ovechkin falls to like round three or round four, and he casually just scores like 40 goals in a season because he was just so good at that. And in his heyday, at the height of Crosby versus Ovechkin, the personality, the jumping into the boards, all of that stuff.

That's what made people love this guy so much. So to see it kind of slowed at this point, this makes me wonder like, okay, like, what if he just doesn't get it? What if it gets to a point where Alexander Ovechkin, just his body is slowed down to a point where he realizes he can't do this on the regular.

His legacy as a Hall of Famer is intact and as a player so dominant in his air with all the accolades. But it will, and I get that some people will levy this with geopolitical consequences as well and other thoughts on that. But I think a lot of people will ultimately look at that as a disappointment, considering how big this chase was hyped up to be. And if he doesn't get that record or if he falls way short of that, I mean, there will be a part of a lot of people who will ultimately feel not cheated, but maybe just disappointed as the word I'll just stick with here. It would be a loss for hockey.

Sean took the words right out of my mouth. You don't want to see Ovechkin limping to the finish line here. You want to see him barreling through it the way he used to barrel through the neutral zone, right? You wanted to see him just destroy the record with this like 14. of the season or something like that. But it would be a big miss opportunity for the NHL

because Ovechkin is one of those names that non-hockey fans know. They know Sidney Crosby. They know Alex Ovechkin. They know Connor Bedard and they sort of know Connor McDavid, at least down here in America. Like those are the names they know. And Ovechkin chasing Gretzky, those are two names

they know. And people would get into that. Like that would be a big story down here that 99% of hockey stories cannot get to. So it would be a lost opportunity for the NHL, and it would just be a shame because whether he gets it or not, Alex Ovetkin's the greatest goal score, probably of all times, certainly of the modern era, just because he's doing it in the dead puck era. Relative to the rest of the league, there's never been a goal score like him. So that doesn't change, but the pursuit is the fun, right? Just like in 1998, the home run chase, you know, we know what about it in hindsight, but at the time, it was the best sports story any of us had ever seen. It was so much fun.

That's what Ovechkin chasing Greske could have been and still could be. I mean, hell, in the set, you know, we're recording this over Christmas break. By the time we, this airs, we might look pretty stupid because you might have three straight hat tricks. This is Alex Ovechkin, who's going to put that past him? But I just, I just, if he does it, I want him to do it Ovechkin like, not just sad. Lazz, you've just ruined the idea that this was a live broadcast. Wait, it's not. It's not January. Why am I hung over then? Wait a second.

Happy New Year. Yeah. And that's why I've been wearing the same clothes we've been wearing this whole. And now Sean's going to go. I thought Sean already ruined this. My bad. No. Sean was like, I'm going to the Ottawa women's game tonight. He just, and it was such a brilliant. Yes. Yeah. I heard that. I was like, okay, we're, we're using that. Like, yeah. All right. Because it's on January. Anyway. I'm sorry. I lied everybody. Hey. Damn it. Lazz. We, we.

will stick with you on this one because I do think a storyline that I'm curious whether or not it comes to fruition in 2024. Joel Quedville and Stan Bowman have been out of the game in the last couple of years over what happened with the 2010 Chicago Blackhawks at Kyle Beach. And I'm wondering, is there a path for one or both of them to return to the NHL in the year ahead? I thought there had been with what, you know, when they came to address the GM meetings here in Chicago at the end of the summer,

it sure seemed like it was inevitable, right? I mean, hell, when the Rangers fired Gerard Gallant, I started banging out a column about, you know, for when the Rangers hired Joel Quenville. I had it all, you know, mapped out. I'm not, I'm less sure now after what happened to Mike Babcock, after Corey Perry even, you know, with things. I think that the teams are a little bit more wary of the PR hit.

They take even the, the dalliance with Joel Quenville that the Rangers seem to have before, I think it was Larry Brooks, disabused everyone at the notion. I think people saw that, like, hmm, man, he's a good coach. He's a really good, one of the greatest coaches of all time, but do we need that? Do we need that PR hit? It feels inevitable because this is hockey, right?

This is what happens is these guys will get another chance. And you can even argue that maybe they deserve a second chance. From all accounts, both Bowman and Quenville have been doing the work behind the scenes, and they've been doing it with little fanfare, they've been talking to the right people, they've been trying to learn lessons. They've been trying to understand power dynamics and what they got wrong and what they could have done better. Maybe they do deserve a second chance.

Maybe that's what we should want out of this is for people who make these kinds of egregious mistakes to learn their lessons and show people that you can change. We want people to change for the better, right? But at the same time, I'm also like, I don't want these guys in the league again. They've lost the right. Why would you hire? Why would you put this person in charge of young men right now, given what has happened in the past when there's so many other options.

out there. I think more teams are leaning towards that second right now. I would not be shocked if they got signed at some point. Bowman probably has a better chance than Quinville, I think at this point, because I mean, Bowman was, I think he interviewed for the Flames job, right? He's in the mix already. He was in Nashville. We saw him in Nashville hobnobbing with, you know, other execs. He's working his way back, and it feels like that could happen. But I'm so torn on this, because I do want people to be positive agents for change. And sometimes you have to fall down. in a hole in order to climb yourself up and show what you can do. But at the same time, every single person in that room, and I've said this before,

that includes Kevin Shevall Dayoff to me, who got no punishment whatsoever. I wouldn't want them running my team. I wouldn't want them in charge of my players at all. Simple. Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Mark. I don't know if those two men are deserving of a second chance. Ultimately, they have to earn it. They have to do all the work to atone for themselves.

and I still don't know if that's going to be enough at the end of the day. You could do all the work you can to, you know, talk to certain people, go through all these seminars and stuff. It's at the end of the day, like, how is the victim feel about it and how remorseful do those two men feel about it? Is it performative or do they really mean it? And it's so hard to know that. Absolutely.

How do you know what's going on in the heart of somebody? Absolutely. And how many interviews with Mike Babcock did we see on these little attempted redemption tours? and you would read them and you'd go, does he really get it? Or does he, you know, and then you saw it in Columbus and it all blew up? And I would say, you know, outside of Mike Babcock and everyone in Columbus, I don't think that story affected anyone more than Joel Quenvo and Stan Bowman because that, I really feel like that's the moment that sent them right to the back of the line again.

Because teams are just looking at it going, do I, like, do I want to be the blue jackets and go through what they just went, you know, and that we're still going through? because that changed torpedoed their whole season. If I'm sitting there going, you know, is Joel Quenville the best coach available? Maybe. Maybe he is. Is he that far ahead in number two where I can hire number two and get everyone's happy and, you know, fresh start and no one's yelling at me and there's no, you know, no headlines?

I don't know. It's a good question that I think we're going to think about a lot. I wonder if those guys get considered for jobs again. You're right. I mean, we heard, we heard Stan Bowman's name linked to Ken. Calgary this past summer. We saw Joe Quenville's name linked out there too. What's stopping other teams from doing that this offseason?

What if it gets to a point where it's so quiet around those two that, you know, that's when teams think, okay, now's the time to look at those guys because we're not thinking about it the same way that we did a summer ago. Yeah. And, you know, like last said, the key to this is, is the work that they've done perform or is it, you know, legitimately their hearts in the right place? Because we do. We do have to allow for second chances, but we can't allow for just like we saw

with the Babcock thing where people don't change their behavior. And so it's going to be fascinating to see if by the end of 2024, one or both of those guys, Quinville and Bowman are back in the NHL in some capacity. One other thing I want to hit on before we take one more break here. And that is, I guess, a little bit of arena talk. around the league and teams where they're going to be located and maybe this maybe this ties into expansion a little bit too uh but the arizona coyotes and maybe this sounds like a podcast from 2012 or 2015 or 20 whatever year pick your year hey where the coyote's going to end up um

are we just exhausted though of this or do we even care at this point guys las i know you've been the mullet a couple times i was just there uh in december it's it's a unique facility I'll say that. I feel like every NHL fan should experience one game at Mullet because it is pretty cool. I kind of Mokey love it. But it's not sustainable for the long haul. But where are we at with the coyotes in their future? And should we be super interested in that storyline in 2024 and does it tie into expansion?

I am pro coyotes. I think that Phoenix is such a big market. And I understand Gary Bettman's obsession with it. I do think the right team with good ownership and good management can do well there. I really do. But fool me once, shame on me. Fool me 176 times. Shame on me.

I think I got that wrong. But how many times do we have to believe this? Like when that referendum failed after everyone just assumed it would sail through, it just is like, all right, maybe this just isn't meant to be. Maybe this team should be in Salt Lake. Maybe they should be in Houston. They should not be in Atlanta, but there's going to be a team in Atlanta at some point, too. I don't know how many times you get to step on a rake before you.

you just don't get to do it anymore. Another Simpson's reference, by the way. Yeah, very, very nicely done. Ian, you asked where the coyote's going to end up. How about this? In the playoffs, unexpectedly. And then maybe then we see how things are going. If they can get in the playoffs, maybe even, you know, make some noise.

How many times do we hear it, right? Every time anyone, especially up here in Canada, we are crusty Canadians, start looking down our nose at some struggling market. And we say, why do they still have a team? team. And the answer is always, well, you know, yeah, maybe we're not selling out the games, but the team's no good. Give us a good team. And then you'll see what this market's capable of. Well, you know, the coyotes aren't a good team in the sense of being cup contender, but they're a better team than people think. So, you know, maybe this gives us an indication. But I think, Ian, I think you nailed it. Right. It's, it's kind of about expansion because as soon as you, why would you not move Arizona to one of those markets? Mark just mentioned because those are your potential expansion. mansion markets. And we want,

you know, if we want to add two teams, we need more than two markets because we got to have a bidding war. And if you move Arizona, that just takes them, that takes a market out of the running. How many teams do we need in this league?

At some point, you're just chasing paydays. And then all of a sudden, there's 36, 38 teams, it's going to be horrible. But you're chasing pay days? Why isn't that why this Arizona thing is extended as long as it has been?

Isn't that why the NHL's floating with Salt Lake City and Hughes? Houston. Isn't that all with the league is like having these big deals with ESPN and other TV markets and in the United States? Isn't that what this is all about? This has to be all that it's all about. And you know, you know who it should be all about with Arizona and maybe the fact that it hasn't come to this is the reason this story. A lot of us keep waiting for the players, the players association to step up and go, wait a second. We're doing a 50, 50 revenue share with you guys. and you've got this team that frankly is a drain on those revenues that could be making so much more money and every dollar, every extra dollar some team would make outside of Arizona,

50 cents of that goes to the player. So why are they not standing up? And maybe the answer is they're okay with it. Because they love living in Scottsdale. That's why. That could be it. Yeah. Tell you what, man.

I mean, you could play in a Canadian market. You go to your practice facility. You go on the dead of January minus 25. You play at Mullet Arena in Arizona. You go to practice. You leave the arena, 30 degree weather, 25 degree weather. I can understand why people would like to play in Arizona.

What other thing I'll mention to do? 85 degrees, Julian. There's American listeners here. You're right. Sorry, and an American here. I had to do the math in my head there when he said that. To other point about Sean, about the possibility of the coyotes making the playoffs

and seeing what the fans are like. You know a team that we don't really make fun anymore because they're actually a good team, And they used to not be, it used to be that they didn't sell out games. And whenever you'd watch games around like Christmas time, you'd see all these fans show up in the building from other teams. We don't make fun of this particular team in my head anymore. The Florida Panthers, they used to get some of those jokes that the Arizona Coyotes get now. And now they're among the best teams in the league.

Carolina are games before them, the Nashville players before them. Good teams sell. Bad teams don't. And there is an argument to be made that says, as, hey, wait, if you only support a team when they're cup contenders, you're not great fans. You're front-running fans and great fans. But here's the reality. You know, that typically isn't the way it is.

Hey, if I turned around and said, tell me the very best hockey markets in the United States. A lot of people would point to Chicago. 20 years ago, Chicago was the building that was half empty. Chicago had seasons. They had seasons where they were behind Arizona, Atlanta. Every one of that 2010 team, all those fans were called bandwagon fans. They're fans now. They're just fans.

Like, it takes a bandwagon season to make new fans. The bandwagon is a good thing because once you're a fan, most of you get roped in for life. How do you think those fans in Pittsburgh were in 2004, 2005 pre-Crosby? What was that team? I was covering those teams. There was 11,000 people at the old igloo. It was terrible. Come on.

And then they get a generation. They get Malkin. They get Crosby. they go to the final, they get these cups. Now they're all fans. It's funny how that works. It's funny how that works. We'll take a break.

Only the four of us could get together to look ahead at 2024 and end up with Lazz talking about how we covered the 2004 payment. That's perfect. We are going to take a break when we come back. Some interesting players to monitor in 2024. Willie Nielander, Leas Pedersen, Leon Dreis Seidel, Steven Stamcox. Do they all end up in new places? what do their contracts look like? So we'll bat that around on the other side

as we continue to look ahead at 24. All right, we're going to wrap up this look ahead to 2024. And we're going to look at, I'm going to give you, and the listeners, a list of four players, pretty elite players, superstar level players. And you guys are all going to have to pick one guy off this list that you're like, you know what,

that's the guy I'm most interested in how it's going to play out because it could have ramifications for, his team or the salary cap or future contracts, whatever. So the four players that I think are really interesting in 2024 are William Nealander, the Toronto Maple Leafs, Leas Pedersen of the Vancouver Canucks, Leon Dricidal in Edmonton, Stephen Stamco's in Toronto. And I was sorry, in Tampa. See, look at that slip from 2016.

Whoa. Prediction by Ian Mendez. Is this 2016 all over again? Oh, yeah. Did he like another tweet? Did I miss it? Yeah, his fingers hitting the tweet button, no, the like button. But, you know, in the case of Nylander, Pedersen, and Stamcoast, they will all need new contracts this summer.

Drysiddle, we should point out. We'll have one more year, but it kind of feels like we're reaching a breaking point or a fork in the road, so to speak, for Leon and the Oilers. So, Sean McIndoo, we'll start with you. Willie Neelander, Leas Pedersen, Leon Drysiddle, Stephen Stampcoe. You can only pick one. Who's the one that you're most interested to see how it plays? I'm going to shock you. I'm taking the Toronto Maple Leaf.

I'm taking William Neelander because he's a leap and I'm a Leafs fan. But I think this is fascinating to see how it plays out because you know, you've got a guy who has been very up and down as far as how he's been perceived in Toronto. He's on the top side of that up these days. He's been fantastic. The first half of the season had the big point streak, lots of highlight reels and all this. he's having a career year right in that contract year. So, you know, that on its own makes us interesting. We know the situation in Toronto with the cap, although, you know, as always seems to be the case,

I think people are thinking the cap is tighter for the Leafs than it actually is. They certainly do have room to make it work as far as giving him a raise. And they've got John Travarez coming off the books in a year, which means, you know, if you can find a way to bridge the year, there's room to do it. The element of this that I just think is so interesting is Brad for Living being the GM. How did it go the last time Brad Trou Living had a few pending UFA? Julian, you're in Calgary. How did that go the last time Brad for Living had to make a tough call on some 20, late 20s pending UFAs?

How did that play? I mean, he got a return for one of them. We will leave the judgment of that return. and, you know, McKenzie Weir, you can say it's okay. Hey, McKenzie is having a really good year. He's having a really good year. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, a conditional pick out of that, too.

The chook trade was good, but, yeah, the Jonathan Huberdo contract, I would argue is the worst contract in the league right now. And the guy who signed it is sitting here in, in, in a very similar situation, and he's hearing all this, you know, all the usual people, you can't lose a guy for nothing. Well, hey, if you trade him at the deadline, that's, that's, you're not. team's going to lose them for nothing too. So what are we even doing here? I still think it, I still think it all comes together. I think he gets signed, but it's going to be really, and because it's Toronto, every little thing, the closer we get to, you know, to deadlines, every little

thing will get cranked up and magnified and blown out of proportion. And, uh, and that'll be great for everyone. Because if I've learned one thing, it's that fans of other, other teams, they love it when the Leafs get blanket coverage on a story. They, they really enjoy. that. So it's going to be a fun first half of 2004 for you. All right. Las, same question here for you. Willie Nealander, Peter, Elias Pedersen, Leon Dreis, Stavis, I'll Stephen Stamcoast. You can only pick the one guy. You're like,

man, I can't wait to see how this plays out. I have no idea. Who's the most compelling one for you? Well, I'll just say William Nealander would be a nice linemate for Connor Bedard if the Blackhawks are looking to spend some money. That's all I'll say there. Um, but for me, it's Stamcoast, right? Because, you know, Stamcoast is on the other side of his career that those those guys you mentioned are on. And Stamcoast is an icon. He's a captain. He's a local hero. He's won cups. He's also still really good. He's still on pace for some 40 goals this year. He is still an elite player in this league. And he is already in the last year of his contract,

and he has not been extended. I am fascinated to see just how ruthless the Tampa Bay Lightning can be. Will they just let him walk? Will they consider moving him at the deadline. Will they extend him? Or will, will they lowball him and say, you want to be a career, a lightning? I don't know how that works with singular team names. You want to be a career bolt? You're going to have to take a massive pay cut to make this work. Or how ruthless is Julian Breezebois prepared to be with a local hero? I mean, the Blackhawks just kicked Patrick Kane and Jonathan Tate to the curb, right? It can be done. But Stephen Stamcoast is at a higher level right now than those guys were last year. And very rarely do we see a team be that

cutthroat. So that's the one I'm curious to see the most is what happens to Stephen Stamcoast here because he's clearly not thrilled about the situation taking this long. With respect to the other guys situation, it's Leon Drysidal. And I think Leon, his situation and his ramifications, it goes beyond him as a player. It is basically, you look at the Emmington Oilers and that era of him and Connor McDavid together. And if Leon leaves, everyone is going to be asking if Connor will leave too. and ultimately if it will have been a wasted error. A lot of that will depend on what happens this year.

I mean, right now the Emmington Oilers are doing everything they can to lift themselves from the depths of hell that they started off the season with to where they're at now or they're chasing a playoff spot. But if they fall short again this year, next year is going to be a massive, massive year for them to try to maximize what they can out of the window that they have. And even if they're, I mean, can you, can the Oilers find a way to pay Leon an insane amount of money,

have Connor McDavid's contract on the books and look ahead to his end, but still find ways to fit in guys under the cap, even with the cap going up next year, to build a competitive team. Those are questions that they're being asked of them now and that they will continue to be asked of them in the future. And Leon Drysiddle, with one decision, can change ultimately the entire course of a franchise.

So I think while yes, Stamco's, his situation obviously will be looked at a lot, William Nealander, they're a little bit more in the immediate, in the, they're closer to see in the rearview mirror, but all behind them, Leon Drysod. Once it hits July 1st, he is going to be the man of the moment. And there might not have been a higher profile player in his situation that we could be talking about. Yeah, and can we just point out all three of those guys that we just talked about, but especially a dry saddle spent the last many years on contracts that in hindsight were big discounts wins for the team.

I mean, that that dry saddle contract, 8.5, that might be the best contract in the entire league from a team perspective. Taking the title away from the most recent champion for that was probably Nathan McKinnon. And we know what happened when his contract came up. He said, I want to be the highest paid player in the NHL. I want to stay where I'm at, but I'm done taking discounts. I'm done here and about how great my contract is. I'd like to make sure I get fair value maybe a little bit more.

Yeah. And that came after a Stanley Cup too. That came after a Stanley Cup for Nathan McKinnon. So at least he gets himself paid. And Colorado is still in that window where they could compete and damn near win the whole thing at the end of this year. If Emmington doesn't win this year and they head into next off season with that question, that cloud hovering over them, it is going to be fascinating times in Edmonton.

I'll say, I'll say one thing on Elias Pedersen in Vancouver. I think the Canucks, and I can't believe I'm using this term with Vancouver, but they turned into a feel good story at the end of 2023. And if Eli, if Elias Pedersen walks, though, whole that, or says I'm not resigning or whatever happens in Vancouver in the summer, he's just like, I want out or I'm not signing, has the potential to kind of detonate what has been a really good story in Vancouver. and suddenly an arrow that felt like it was, you know, either pointing sideways or down,

the trajectories up in Vancouver with that core. You suddenly look at them and say, well, maybe you can win with them. And I think so much of it kind of factors on PD there. So it'll be interesting to see for me how he plays that out in the months ahead. All right. So that does it for the stories, the players and the storylines that we're looking forward to in 2024. I hope you enjoyed hanging out with us for the last hour or so. We want to say happy new.

Happy New Year, yeah, from all of us at the Athletic Hockey Show. I want to let you know for some scheduling things. Julie and I will be back. The 8th of January, that's a Monday. We'll be back with our kind of first live show of 2024. In between now and then, of course, the World Junior Hockey Championship is going on in Sweden. Max Bolton, Corey Prudman, Scott Wheeler, Chris Peters. The four of them will continue to have it have you covered wall-to-wall with all of the world junior stuff going on.

So thanks so much for listening to this special. look-ahead edition of the Athletic Hockey Show for 2024.