The Athletic Hockey Show - Top storylines from the NHL’s first month

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

We’re a month into the NHL season and some clear storylines have begun to emerge. Today, Laz and Jesse talk about the new blood rising, from the Mammoth and Ducks to the Blackhawks and Canadiens, the old guard Wild and Blues stumbling out of the gate, the mushy middle in the East, and individual players who are off to hot starts, like Macklin Celebrini, Sidney Crosby, and Jakub Dobes, and ones, like Yaroslav Askarov, Linus Ullmark, and Steven Stamkos, who are not.Hosts: Mark Lazerus and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello and welcome to the athletic hockey show. I am Mark Lazarus, joined today by Jesse Granger in Las Vegas. We're going to talk about our favorite storylines of the young season as we hit the one-month point. But first, I think I've said this to you before, Jesse. I got to point it out, I'm on your side of the continent today. I'm on this long road trip with the Blackhawks. I'm in Seattle, and this time zone is absolutely for the birds.

It's the worst. I don't know how you do it out here. I know you love your 10 a.m. football, but you know, I go out to dinner. I get a workout in. I get back to my room at like 8 p.m. last night. And there's nothing on. Sports are over.

I don't want to watch football at 10 a.m. I want to watch football at 8 p.m. And I can't do that out here. How do you live out here? It is. It is we don't get the late night stuff. I do like whenever I cover a game on the East Coast, it always blows my mind that like you can finish covering the game.

You do the presser. You write the whole story. Like it's like so late at night. And then you go to the bar or you go home and there's still another game on, which is just insane to me. I'm used to once our game ends. everything is over. But I still prefer the West Coast time zone. I guess I was, I was jealous when it was the 18 inning when it was game three of the World Series and I was up to like 2.30 in the

morning. I could have used the West Coast then, but that's about the only time, man. I just, it's awful. Like, that's, sports are at night. That's when sports are supposed to happen. And it's not have a West Coast game to watch. It's just terrible. 9 a.m. College football is the best. Wake up on Saturday. It's already games going on. It's great. Like, I grew up in New York on the East Coast and I would stay up to watch Conan O'Brien at 1235 in the morning every night as like a teenager. I don't know how I survived on the East Coast. Everyone should live in the central or the mountain time zones. They're the best. Yeah, yeah. I like the West. All right. So we're about a month into the season now. And, you know, we're kind of tiptoeing through

the territory where sample sizes are starting to get just significant enough to take seriously. We're at that point where you can't just brush everything aside with it's early. You know, we're not in October anymore. We're in a real month. We're in November. And so as we talk about our favorite storylines of the season, I want to start with my favorite. The new blood. There's so much new blood. There's all these rising teams out here. It feels like we've had the same teams in the mix for years now, give or take a couple of, you know, first round cannon fodder. But right now, a month into the season, the Montreal Canadiens are in first place in the Atlantic just ahead of the Detroit Red Wings.

The New Jersey Devils and the Pittsburgh Penguins are atop the Metro. I don't know how that happened. The Utah mammoth are keeping pace in the Central with the behemists there like Colorado and Winnipeg. Anaheim ducks are in first place in the Pacific. The Seattle Crackin are just, are in a playoff spot, I think. And the Chicago Blackhawks are just to point out, they're playing some fun hockey. So let's go through a handful of them, try to figure out which ones really might be teams on the rise,

who are here for the long run. And I got to start with the mammoth, because that's the team I believe in. Utah is legit. I think a lot of us saw this one coming, at least, as opposed to some of these other ones. I mean, when you're quote-unquote second line is Logan Cooley, Dylan Gunther, and J.J. Paturka,

you're a team to be reckoned with. They got the goalie. Vamelka has been really solid in net. The defense isn't going to wow you, but it's pretty deep. It's pretty solid. you know, like, Oli Maudey Maude on the third pair, that's a respectable player? My only question is, do they have the depth in the bottom six?

Are they too top-heavy when it comes to offense? Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with everything you said. It's that that team has looked really good. And I think we'll get into some of the other teams. I think that the, like, underlying analytics and the things they're doing well in Utah, to me, make me believe in them a little more than the others, just because, like, Anaheim's one. The analytics for Anaheim are horrible.

They're just being carried by one man, Lukash Dostal. They're just being carried by one man. Utah, I'll be honest. Vamelka, I think, I have a high opinion of him, but I don't think he's actually been playing that well early in the season, which to me, if you've got a goalie who's not playing particularly well and your team is exceeding expectations, that tells me it's a little more sustainable because I think Vamilka actually has

better hockey to give. I think he's going to play better. I mean, he's only at an 890 save percentage, which sounds horrific, but in today's NHL, that's like just barely below league average. But it's below league average. So you're getting below the average save percentage with a goalie who is fully capable of doing better than that. So, I mean, this team, Nick Schmaltz has been awesome. Logan Cooley's been awesome.

Do you think the bottom six is strong enough? Because like you said, that's the biggest concern. I mean, Sergachev's been awesome on the back end. It's all the top end guys that have been great. I don't know if they've got. the depth that teams like Vegas and Dallas and Winnipeg do, but I think the depth is good enough to get them into a playoff spot and keep this, like, the current pace that they're playing.

I think they can keep that going. Well, that's where I'm at. I think this is a playoff team. I don't think this is a playoff team that goes on a deep run, probably, unless those offensive guys just go nuts or if Amelka just has a great series, like I said about any team, though. But, you know, Lawson Krause and Michael Carcone, Brandon Tanev, Kailer Yamamoto, these are fine,

but this is not the bottom six. of a of a real contender kind of team. You know, it's just, it's pretty, it's pretty mediocre. It's pretty milk toast at the bottom six. I don't know what their identity really is. They don't have like just, you know, complete, they don't mess around with you. They don't play the body that much.

It's a good, respectable team. It's a playoff caliber team, but they're going to have to go out and get a little deeper, you know, maybe they do that at the deadline. Maybe they find some of those nice, that's what you always get at the deadline. Those are the kind of moves that really make an impact is when you get that third line center or you get that, you know,

shut down wing. they're not there yet, but I think they're absolutely legitimate. This is a playoff team in my mind. I will say Yamamoto, I watched their game the other night against Tampa, and it was their first home loss. They were 4-0, and that building, the atmosphere in there is fun. They were 4-0 to start. They did finally lose one at home to Tampa. I watched that game. I thought Yamamoto was like one of the best players on the ice in that game. And he is on their fourth line. So that's, I don't expect him to, like, I think he's only got two points in 12 games or whatever. so it's not like he's a huge difference maker down there, but he's good on the forecheck.

He was one of the players that I kept noticing doing good things in that 4-2 loss to Tampa. Like I said, their first at home, they've been so good up in Salt Lake. Well, that's what you need. I mean, you know, every team when you get into the playoffs has a good top six. It's what you have beyond that that really makes a difference in a long series. So let's move to Anaheim now.

You kind of touched on him briefly. Joel Quenville has them playing up-tempo, fun, winning hockey. Yeah, the numbers are a little dice, but you can't argue with the results. There's been a lot of talk about Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard this year, and for good reason, they've both been fantastic. Leo Carlson is absolutely killing it for Anaheim with 16 points and 11 games. You throw in young guys like Carter Gautier and Troy Terry, these are, this is a really good young team that's going to be good for a long time. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I will say this. If this is the baseline, and they should get better,

because Quinville, these are young players who are still trying to figure things out. This is Quinville installing new things, brand new system from top to bottom, they should get better from here. And if this is the bottom and they're leading the Pacific Division and yeah, maybe they're punching above their weight a little bit, I do think that there's definitely some hope for this team, especially in a Pacific Division that I think it's much easier for a team like Anaheim to climb into that than it is for Utah who's got Colorado and Dallas and Winnipeg and Minnesota who's been awful but should be better. Like that is a tougher ask. I think Anaheim should be able to stay in the fight. I mean, when you look at their numbers, they are currently giving up the most scoring chances of any team in the league at even strength.

They are giving up the most high danger chances of any team in the league at even strength. They're giving up the most expected goals of any team in the NHL at even strength. Luckily for them, Lukash Dostal does not care. He is stopping everything. He's got a 916 save percentage, which when you consider how difficult the shots have been, that is unbelievable. According to evolving hockey, his 12.6 goals saved above expected are our first in. the NHL right now leading the way. He is an absolutely amazing goalie. Like I've been saying this for since back to last year, even when his numbers weren't as good. I think he reads the play as well as

any goal in the league. He's right up there with Connor Hellebuck, Jake Ottinger, Igor Shostirkin. It looks like they see the future. They, they know where you're passing it before you have decided where you're passing it. He is so ahead of the play in position all the time. He almost never has to make those like desperation diving saves, even playing against a team that's been a sieve, the way the Anaheim ducks have. It is impressive to watch. I don't know if the ducks are good enough for him to win a Vesna, maybe multiple Vezna, in his career. I couldn't be more impressed with Lucas Stostall. Our friends at BEDMGM have him at plus 3,000 to win the Vesna this year. Now, a lot of times we always talk about how hard it is for teens out West to win some of these

individual awards because the voters just don't see them. We don't see enough of these games to know. And you start, you know, a lot of these voters on the East Coast start going based on numbers alone. With the GMs voting for Vesna, I'm sure you've looked at Vesna voting, from an interesting perspective. Does being on the West Coast hurt you when there's only 32 voters out there? I don't think so, but I will say they, I think the GMs have actually gotten better at voting for the Vesna because it used to just be whoever has the most wins. They have sort of gone away from that. But like Darcy Kempter last year is a perfect example. I didn't think Darcy Kemper deserved to be a finalist.

He had an excellent year, but I thought he was very insulated behind a very good defensive Kings team. I thought, to be honest, I thought Doe Stahl should have been the third guy on the Vesna list outside of him. But the safe percentage numbers, the base numbers that every, like, that you just see on the front page of NHL.com, those are typically the numbers that the GMs are basing their voting off of. And Darcy Kemper had phenomenal numbers.

So I would say that a West Coast guy in Kemper playing in L.A. actually got ranked voted higher than I would have. So I guess that kind of shows that it doesn't hurt you to be on the West Coast. I don't know. We'll see. They still do lean too much on the best goalie on the team with the most wins, gets the Vezna a little more than I would like. I'd like to see them maybe give some more credit to guys that are playing behind bad teams.

But I don't think West Coast hurts them too bad. Like you said, the Pacific is there for the taking outside of Vegas. There's no real scary teams. Edmonton is going to be just cruise controlling through the regular season after going to the Stanley Cup final twice. They're not going to be going all out. The kings don't look all that dominant. It's basically

Vegas and you know, that's about it. I mean, Edmonton will get it going. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, Edmonton's going to be there, but it's very easy to see this Ducks team slotting in in the top three in that division and not even worrying about a wild card. I could see them just being a playoff team. And then

he said, once you got the goalie, you never know what can happen in the playoffs. Chris Kreider comes back from injury. He scores in each of his first two games. He's got, He's averaging like a goal of game, basically. He's found the Fountain of Youth out there. That's an exciting young team. And there's another one here. Let's keep it in the Western Conference.

I think we need to talk about the Chicago Blackhawks. They had a bad night in Winnipeg the other night. You know, Spencer Knight's first off night of the year. They come back and they go into Edmonton, and they play a really strong road game. They score late in the third period to tie it. They take it to overtime. And, you know, in overtime.

It's not fair playing overtime against Connor McDavid, Leon Drysail and Evan Bouchard. That should almost be illegal. It's so ridiculous. But is this a playoff team in Chicago? Probably not. They're still a year or two behind where Utah and Anaheim are right now. But let me tell you, man, Connor Bedard is starting to happen. His last four games, he has been unbelievable. Just flying around, creating chances left and right. He's engaging defensively. He's winning puck battles.

He's getting better in the dot. He's got four goals, four assists in his last four games. Andre Purokowski, shown a really nice connection with him on that top line. They got Ryan Green, who's like a 20-year-old fourth-line center playing on that line, and he's still producing at this level. I'm telling you, Connor Bedard is happening. He is going to, this could be the year where he takes the leap. Yeah, a lot of great signs. I think what I like most about it is I would expect a young team like that that's taking the step that they're taking to just be kind of like doing what San Jose is doing, where the sharks are playing better hockey, but they're still just a mess like structurally, but they're just outscoring their problems with skill.

Chicago's not really doing that. Like they aren't, I mean, the one night in Ottawa when Linus Olmark just. Good grief. We're going to get to Allmark later. Oh, my goodness. Other than when they're playing Linus Allmark, the Blackhawks have not scored a ton of goals in these games. They're winning close three to two games, three to four games. Like I have been impressed with not just the fact that they're actually winning some games now, but they look like a decent team that is like structurally sound. And Spencer Knight's playing really well behind him.

Obviously, I mentioned Doe Stahl. The guy right behind him and goals saved above expected is Spencer Knight. He's been outstanding in his real day. He got to play some games, obviously last year coming over from the trade, but this is the first season where you enter with him being the franchise goalie. He's got the contract. And so far, early on, the pressure has not gotten to him. He's living up to it and then some.

Yeah, I've been really impressed with his mentality. He had a really bad night in Winnipeg. He had been so good, like almost flawless, the first handful of starts, goes into Winnipeg, gives up two or three really soft goals, very uncharacteristic goals. And Jeff Blaschell, smartly goes right back to him in Emmetton, doesn't give Arvitz Soder Bloom the start, doesn't give Spencer Knight the reset, just throws him right back into the fire, and he was terrific. He made like 13 saves in the first period.

Big stops, even on the game-winning goal in three-on-three, he made a ridiculous save on Bouchard. Amazing. That Bouchard was just able to pop the rebound back in. I mean, Arden Leveshanov had been on the ice for like two minutes at that point, just completely exhausted. It was only Spencer Knight out there, and he made a great save before he didn't. He's just, he's an interesting guy.

Like, in a post-game, after a winner or a loss, he's a tough interview after a game. He's so locked in mentally. I don't think he comes down from that for a while, because you talk to him on an off day and he's a completely different guy. So he's an interesting guy. He's one of those goleys. Goleys are weird and he's got a little bit of that. But he's playing with so much confidence right now.

And yeah, the Blackhawks are not some amazing lockdown, you know, shot suppression team, but they're getting better. And Jeff Blaschel's done a really good job. And every day they're kind of like just tweaking and honing and fine-tuning that system. And they're getting a little bit better at it. They're thinking a little less. They're reacting a little more. Again, I don't think this is a playoff team, but they are light years ahead of where we thought they were going to be this year.

And they've got a lot of good young guys. Remember, they've made 11 first round picks in the last four years. So there's a lot of help coming. And when you add Anton Frundell next year and you add Roman Cancer off, the leading goal score in the KHL next year, Oliver Moore, Nick Lardis, who had 70 goals in the OHL. He's now, I think he's at the top of the AHL scoring. He's legit.

There's a lot to get excited about in Chicago here. To just go into a little bit of a nerdy goalie thing with Spencer 9. Please, please. The thing that excites me the most about what I've watched from him is that, like, you hear a full, like for example, for a forward, you hear, oh, he doesn't cheat the game. Like, he's not flying the zone early in order to try to get offensive chances. He's not trying to predict turnovers to try to, and then you leave your team exposed. Goleys, it's obviously different, but they can do the same thing in terms of cheating the game.

And Spencer Knight does not ever cheat the game. Like, I love how locked in he is on the puck. And maybe this is kind of like you talk about his mentality being locked in. Like he, in that game, I watched the Edmonton Chicago game the other night that you mentioned. Perfect counter example of Stuart Skinner on the other side, who actually played pretty well in that game. Yeah. But the Bertuzi goal where Bedard fed it to Bertuzi on the back door and he like, it kind of went off his skate and then he jammed it in. Skinner is cheating the play on that because he, he's not square to Bedard's shot at all.

He's already flattened out along his goal line waiting for that back time, that that one timer on the back side. But the problem is when you, when you do that as a goalie and you flatten yourself to the goal line, well, now that passing lane, opens. If you had just stayed square to Badaard, then you would have, you would have saved the pass. Like, he would have tried to make the pass. You would have kicked it out with your leg. Nothing happens. But because he's cheating it, trying to predict where that play is going to go, you open the passing lane. Bertuzi ends up scoring. We end up looking at it like, oh, the goalie had no chance because it was a backdoor play. But he actually did if he would just, if he had just stayed square. When I watched Spencer Knight, you look at his two, his skates, they are always pointed at the puck,

always. He is never flattening out or trying to get ahead of the play. And that's because, one, he trusts his defense and probably more so. He trusts his movement. His lateral movement is so good that he knows I don't need to take that extra, that cheat step to try to get over. I'm going to get over there anyway, so he just stays square to the puck and it just gives the shooter nothing. Like there's no net to look at. It looks, it is a helpless feeling for the shooter when the goal is that locked in. I absolutely love watching. in him play so far this season. He's been awesome. That's a patented goal by Tyler Bertuzi. What he does, he goes to one knee and he puts his other foot right behind the stick

to give it to brace it. The puck comes in. And if it does go off his skate, you can't tell because the stick's right there too. It kind of just lengthens out the stick a little bit. He gives them a little more surface area to bank that shot in. I don't know why more guys don't do that. It's a really crafty way to make sure you get your stick on those backdoor passes. So let's move back out east now. We all saw Montreal come and right. They started to take that step last year, that leap into contention. but they've gone straight to the top of the heap in the Atlantic. Cole Caulfield, oh my gosh, you've got 10 goals and 12 games.

Lane Hudson, Ivan Demidov. Is there a more fun pair to watch play hockey right now? I mean, they're just making, my God, did you see the two of them work the puck together for that equalizer against Ottawa on Saturday night? The way Demidov just broke Nick Jensen's ankles, that little shimmy move right along the boards. Oh, man, that is the good stuff. Just inject that right into my veins.

And, hey, they got the goal team. Jakob Dobesh might be a Vesna favorite right now. Even in the Calder race, he's plus 900. You know, Matt Schaefer with the Islanders, obviously the favorite at plus 110, Demadov at plus 180, but don't sleep on what Dobesh is doing. What do you like most about Montreal right now?

Man, they're exciting. This team's fun. Yeah. You went through all these awesome young players. We don't even mention Nick Suzuki, who is currently leading the NHL with 16 assists. He's on pace for 109. I don't think he's going to get to 109 assists,

but, and what's funny is, I think of Nick Suzuki as, like, one of these, like, young rising stars. like the old guy on this team. Like Nick, I think he's 25, 26. Like he is the he is the grizzled veteran on this team. They are so young, so exciting, almost like the pressure isn't getting, like they don't even understand what the pressure is. Like they're so young and like new that they don't even realize like the pressure of the Montreal hasn't won in so long. It doesn't get to them at all. I love watching this team. Dobish, like you mentioned, is awesome. What's, what's interesting to me when it comes to

Dobish, we talked a little bit last week about how that, like, he might be taking that job from Montembo. He might be taking someone else's job. I mean, we have already, I've already gushed about two Chequhya goalies in Lukash Dostal and Karel Vamelka. And now Jakobosch is throwing his name into the mix. I don't know if it's quite Dominik Hoshik going to single-handedly win it for the Czechs like he did in 1998 in the Olympic Golds, but Chekia has got some phenomenal goaltending. And they're going to have to choose between these three. Right now, it's hard to pick anyone but Dobish. I mean, he's 6 and 0 with a 930 save percentage. Nobody can beat him. But like I said, Dostal, to me, has been one of the best goals in the league. It's not quite Hachik, but man, the checks are going to

have some good goaltending in the Olympics. I can't wait to see if they can maybe try to upset somebody. I think that team's live. A little bit later, when we talk about some of the disappointing teams, I have an Olympic goaltender question for you. And I think you could probably figure out what it is. Real quick, before we go to a break, Pittsburgh or Detroit. You know, Pittsburgh, we had written off completely. Detroit, I think everyone had just kind of moved on from, like it was never going to happen. They're both looking great. Pittsburgh is, look at the gold differential in the league right now.

Winnipeg at the top, sure. Colorado next, naturally. Pittsburgh, at plus 10 this early in the season, that doesn't happen by accident. Eric Carlson's a plus seven. You know, they're getting dead. Crosby's been amazing because he's always amazing. Malkin's turning back the clock. You know, guys like Anthony Mantha and Justin Brow

These guys are huge contributors right now. Tristan Jari is not going to post a 923 save percentage all season, so I'm still really hesitant to anoint the Pittsburgh Penguins as legit. But man, they look great right now, don't they? They do. I'm curious how this group of old men last holds up over an 82 game season because I could see them being excited and their bodies feel good in the beginning of season. And obviously the talent is there.

There's no questioning. Even at their ages, like the talent is still there. Will they be able to hold up? I agree with you. I'm a little, I'm a little more hesitant on Pittsburgh. They've looked awesome. Malkin has looked like you said, has looked great. Crosby, it's not a surprise. Malkin after the year he had last year, there was like legitimate wonders of like, is he the same guy anymore? He's looked awesome so far this year. There was there was retirement speculation. He was so he struggled so much last year. You mentioned Brazo. He's hurt right now, but he has been a just come out of nowhere. And early on it was like, okay, he's like a bottom six guy who he gets greasy goals. But like then they moved him. I think he's playing on the second line now. He's on the power play. He scores almost every night. I picked him off the waiver wire and fantasy. Just thinking it was like a one night like, oh, Pittsburgh plays a back to back.

Let me get someone on their team. Well, now he's like one of the best players on my fantasy team. I'm just keeping him. Came out of absolutely nowhere. Yeah, Pittsburgh. And not only Tristan Jari has he been good, but Archer She-Lovs. Vancouver had a logjam in net with Demco and Lankin. They end up trading Shilovs for essentially nothing.

That's looking like a phenomenal pickup for the Pittsburgh Penguins. I think he might even, like, going forward, he could be their number one ahead of Jari. Obviously, Jari's playing great right now, but they're getting good stuff from a lot of unexpected areas on that team. And just to give Detroit some love, they deserve it, is Emmett Finney the best story in the NHL right now? I mean, we see seventh rounders make it into the league, you know, like Louis Creve here in Chicago. But that's kind of, they're usually like the seventh defenseman or like the bottom, you know, fourth liner. Emmett Finney, just two years after being a seventh round pick, is he's in the rookie of the year conversation.

He's been fabulous. He's given that team a real jolt. And also, I want to point out Alex to Brinkett. I mean, when he was in Chicago, he's this great offensive player, a defensive liability. I remember when he played with Patrick Kane and Dylan Strom, it was just, it was the craziest line of it because they would score so much and they would give up so much.

But he's turned himself into this little Sam, you know, Sam Ryanhart Jr. Where he's out there, you look at his defensive numbers. He's among the best in the league right now. He's turned himself into a real. nice, you know, effective two-way player. And, you know, to do that at this stage of his career is pretty cool. He's kind of reinventing himself a little bit while still being productive on offense. Detroit's not going anywhere. This team has the talent. I believe in this team more than I believe in Pittsburgh. I don't know if they're going to really hold on all year long, but, you know,

they've been knocking on the door for a while now and we have just kind of moved on from them, but they're not going anywhere right now. Yeah. And they've, to me, what I like is they've looked good against the good teams. Like, they're not just picking off the bottom of the NHL and just like taking care of business. They beat the Leafs twice in a row. They beat Florida and Tampa Bay on back-to-back games in Detroit. They went into St. Louis and took them out seven to three the other night. That's a big, like, you know, like, I don't know. I thought that was a big test to go into St. Louis the other night, and they just absolutely smoked the blues off the ice. They follow that up with they go straight to L.A. and beat a good Kings team. Like, I've been impressed

with not just the record, but the wins have come against really good teams. All right, enough of all this positivity. When we come back from a quick break, We're going to look at the flip side of all this, who stumbled out of the gate and might make room for some of these upstarts in the playoffs. We'll be right back. All right, we're back, and we spent the last 20 minutes just gushing over all these great teams that we're excited to watch. And then there's the Minnesota Wild and the St. Louis Blues, and we have to get into it. Minnesota got a desperately needed win over Vancouver on Saturday after dropping four straight at home. I mean, as our Mike Russo and Joe Smith have documented, they're just an absolute mess.

Coming off the high of the Caprizo contract and locking this guy up forever, they've been awful. They're not even the biggest disaster in the Central Division right now. St. Louis, which took Winnipeg down to the last minute of game seven last year in the playoffs. There's 31st in the league right now ahead of only Calgary. Who's the biggest disaster right now, St. Louis or Minnesota? Well, Minnesota had a players-only meeting. So I'm going to just use that as the tiebreaker. It's close.

I think they've both been disasters. But the fact that Minnesota had a players-only meeting, I believe it actually technically happened in October. It was like right, the last day of October, first day of November. It's not good. It's not good. I mean, now they came out of that player's only meeting and and beat up on a very injured Vancouver Canucks team. The Canucks aren't great when they're healthy and now they're not healthy. So it's not like it's a huge win, but they did, they did come out of that players only meeting with a win. But it's not, it's not ideal to be having that this time of year. I don't know how like long that boost you're going to get, that bump you're going to get from that can last when it's happening in late October.

Yeah, no, that's not a good side. That's supposed to happen in like February in the dog days when, you know, the team's not showing enough emotion and the captain wants to kick him in the butt a little bit. October, that's pretty desperate. I still think St. Louis is worse right now. The Blues goalies are an absolute disaster. Jordan Bennington has been terrible. Hofer's been terrible. All team's been terrible.

But here's my question. I alluded to this earlier. Is there any way, Jordan Binnington was phenomenal in the Four Nations tournament. He deserved, you know, I was critical of that decision and I was wrong. He was great. Is there any way he plays himself out of Team Canada's number one spot in Milan or they just absolutely locked in on him? So I will say, I think the Olympic format is going to give teams more of a chance to let goalies establish themselves. Like at four nations, you only have three games and the way the format was set up, like one loss could theoretically knock you out of the gold medal game. You don't have any gamey games.

You don't have any games that you can just throw a guy in and see what he can do. Whereas the Olympics, they've got these group stage games. And for the most part, like the U.S. and Canada are going to just be crushing these teams in the group stage games. Like, they're going to be playing countries that don't stand a chance. Because of that, I think you give Bendington game one. Nope. Like, I don't think there's any question. I mean, unless he's just playing the worst hockey of his life leading up to it.

And he, I mean, he's doing that right now, but we still got a couple months. I still think you give him game one and see how it goes. And if it goes bad in game one, you're obviously going to win that game. But if he doesn't look great, then you can turn to other guys. I think the Olympic format gives them opportunities to try other guys out, let multiple goalies play and see who's in the best form in that. I mean, it's going to be a weird setup. You're around teammates you never played with before.

You're in, obviously, you're in Italy. I think it's a good chance to let multiple guys play because Canada, obviously Logan Thompson, you got left off the team for Four Nations. He's right up there again playing excellent hockey for the capitals. He's top five in goals saved above expected, and he's looked phenomenal. So I expect him to be in the mix. Mackenzie Blackwood has been injured. He's just coming back.

He just played his first game the other night in San Jose for the avalanche, coming off off-season surgery. But he will be informed by the time it comes. Sam Montembo hasn't been playing well. We talk about how Dobish has kind of taken his job. So maybe he's not in the running. Aidan Hill is... injured and doesn't look like he's going to be playing anytime soon for the Vegas Golden Knights.

So that's another Canadian goalie that was on the roster at Four Nations, but isn't there. It's going to be super interesting. No Canadian goalie outside of Logan Thompson has really thrown their name into that mix while Bennington is kind of opening the door for someone to do that. It's so bad. The funny thing is, you know, I was just looking at this while you were talking. And the Blues are like a top five team in terms of shot suppression. They're not giving up a lot.

Their power play's been fine. They're not scoring a ton, but they're there. They are giving up 4.17 goals per game, dead last in the league, even with only giving up 25 shots per game. I mean, the goaltending has been just spectacularly awful. Like, I don't know if we've seen goaltending this bad on a team for this sustained period of time. I will say, and this is what I do. I defend the goal at least, but I will say that I've watched their last two games. I watched their last two games.

And I'm like, yeah, but yeah, they only gave up five high danger chances. and they gave up goals on all five. But what is he supposed to do there? It's a deflection from right in front of his face that goes top shelf. And then the next play is three guys are screening the goalie. He still makes the save. It goes right to a guy for a rebound

and he crushes it into the net. Like when I watch the goals against, they aren't these like incredibly soft goals. What's happening is St. Louis doesn't give up many chances. But when they do give up a chance, it's like grade A plus plus, as good of a chance you can give up. And then Bennington and Hofer just aren't making

the saves. Like, I don't think they're giving up, like, really soft goals that you absolutely have to stop, but you got to make a couple of those saves. Like, as an NHL goalie, as one of the best in the world at doing what you do, like, even though these aren't on you, like, I don't think they're giving up crazy soft ones. We just need you to stop a couple of these grade A chances, and then we're going to win the game because we're not giving up many. So it's kind of an interesting dynamic of like, yeah, the goaltending numbers are horrific. They're not doing anything particularly well, but also at the same time, I'm not watching these games and thinking, man, these guys are just giving up softy after softy.

Yeah, we talk about riding the PDO train. They might be just getting run over by the PDO train right now. There could be some regression, but they are, you know, six or seven points out right now of a playoff spot. And it's silly to talk about the playoffs on November 3rd, but we always talk about how hard it is to make up ground in the NHL. The Blues are the poster children for you can do it. That's how they won the Stanley Cup.

They went from dead last to winning the Stanley Cup when they made a coaching change in December of, was it ever, 18, 19. or keep track anymore. So it can be done, but man, they are making it so difficult on themselves. Let's head back out east. And as our friend Sean McIndoo pointed out, every single team in the Eastern Conference is of 500 teams are better right now, thanks to the loser point. It's such a ridiculous system.

Every single team could say, you know what? No, we're in it. We're good. We're good. They're getting the faux parody that the NHL just craves and loves. So nobody's in a St. Louis-type panic right now. But if the season ended today, which is kind of what we're talking about today, last year's top seed, the Washington capitals out.

Perennial contender of the Toronto Maple Leafs out. Ottawa Senators, one of those teams on the rise who made it last year, out. The New York Rangers, everyone on our staffs, darling, not me, because I don't believe in them, but everyone else seemed to, they're out. Which of these teams, these, you know, Tampa Bay has kind of crawled out a little bit, and they're writing the ship a little bit. They're in the mix right now in the top three of the Atlantic. But which of these teams concerns you the most out of these Eastern teams that right now are on the outside looking in? Yeah, Toronto is an interesting one because the Maple League, like, there's, there's a different feeling about that team. Like this team had been looking for goaltending prior to last season.

Like just let's rewind to prior to last season, they had gotten rid of Sampsonoff. They had brought in Stolars. Joseph Wall had been kind of injured. Like that team had been had had everything except for the goaltending. Then they get awesome goaltending last year. Like overall, they had maybe top three in the league, goaltending. numbers for the whole season. Stolars is awesome. And now this year, the goaltending has regressed a little bit.

It's probably just like maybe Stolars and Wall were playing a little above their heads. And now they've kind of regressed a little bit. And suddenly, now that they aren't getting this spectacular goaltending, the team doesn't look great anymore. And I'm just Mitch Marner gone. They've made some changes. All of a sudden, this does not look like the possession dominant team, the analytics darling that they have been for whatever, five, six years.

feels like, it feels like every year they're right at the top of every like underlying metric of expected goals, all that. They've been so good at that stuff. And then last year, they were bailed out by the goaltending a little bit. And now this year it's not happening. And they just don't look. I don't think the Maple Leafs are a bad team, but they don't look like as good of a team as to me. To me, this is the worst they've looked in quite some time. Yeah, I think in 10 years when we look back on this Maple Leafs era, that marner trade is going to be or the marner leaving is going to be kind of the delineation line, right? Where they went from like this darling contender,

this fun, all offense, you know, let's go outscore the opponents. We're just loaded with skill team, this possession monster to just another team in the Eastern Conference. Like they seem, there was something special about Toronto, even though it didn't work in the playoffs.

I understand the desire to change it when you can't just keep doing the same thing and running it back over and over again. But this team doesn't feel special anymore. It was special for a while. They had so much skill, so much offense, so much high. high-end guys that it felt special.

Now it just feels like another team scraping and clawing to try to get into the playoffs and maybe squeak out a series winner to it in the postseason. They don't feel like true contenders team anymore. You talk about having a players only meeting in October being a bad sign. Having your goalie call you out in week two of the season like Stolars did, that's not a good sign either.

That's usually a sign of desperation among a team. This team feels very ordinary to me right now. And that's for all the grief that we give the Toronto Maple Leaf and much of it deserved, they've never been ordinary. and they feel ordinary right now. The difference in, like you talked about how close the standings are, it's actually ridiculous. Like, I'm looking at it right now. There are four teams currently in playoff spot with 14 points.

So Tampa's in the third spot in the Atlantic with 14. Carolina's in the third spot in the Metro with 14. Both the wild card teams, Columbus and New York, have 14 points. Last place, dead last in the entire conference, is Philly with 13 points. They are one point behind. So basically it's like you're either in a top three spot in your division or in dead last on a nightly basis it can change based on like a winner or a loss. Like it's it's pretty insane how tight everything is over there. You almost have to think that's going to separate at some point over the next couple of months here.

But imagine if it doesn't, this is the NHL and there are so many points to be had out there and it's really hard to separate yourself. If there's still 12, 13, 14 teams that feel they're in the mix come like February, the trade deadline is either going to be the greatest trade deadline of all time or the absolute. worst trade it on because nobody's going to want to move anybody because everyone thinks, hey, we can just get in. And, you know, even these teams that might not be contenders, that one round of playoff gate is a lot of money to a lot of these teams. And their teams are not going to want to sell if they think they can sneak in and get a few games, kind of like Ottawa did last year, like Washington did a couple of years before that. It's really the dynamic in the east right now is hilarious because nobody's really all that good, but nobody's

really all that bad. And how that plays out between now and late February is going to be really really interesting. All right, when we get back next segment, we're going to be talking about some individual guys who are off to some great starts and some guys that are not. So stick around. All right, lastly today, Jesse, we're going to talk about some individual guys who are having great starts and some who are off to some alarming starts. We got to start with Macklin Celebrini. We touched on it earlier. The charts are not good, but they sure as hell are a lot of fun. And that starts with Celebrini, who just continues to be everything he was advertised to be and more. I mean, is there a more exciting player in the league right now?

No, I don't think so. I mean, he's doing all of the, like, amazing, flashy things that we expect a young player of his pedigree to do. What impresses me is, like, he's doing the small things, winning the board battles. Like, we, every time the sharks play the Golden Knights, which happens a lot, we talk to Bruce Cassidy and, like, he gets asked in. Bruce Cassidy is a phenomenal coach, but he is very much the, like, cliche of, like, he loves the veteran. players. He wants you, like he'll take a guy who can win a board battle over a guy who can go between his legs and beat the goalie any day. Like he is that exact cliche of a coach. And the way he talks about Celebrini to me opens my ears to like, okay, this kid, he must be doing all the right

things because Bruce Cassidy doesn't talk that way about 19 year olds very often. And he just gushes about Celebrini every time he's asked. The kid, like I said, he is the complete package. He's doing everything you could expect, plus he's doing other things that you don't expect that young of a player. Maybe he hasn't gotten like that grown man strength. It doesn't matter. His stick is so good along those walls. Even guys who can out muscle him, he just beats him with fast hands. Like, that's not an area of the game.

You think like your hands would, would like come into play, but he's just so good with his stick. He comes out of the right end of those plays with the puck all the time. And it's just doing everything for San Jose right now. I know you weren't born when Sidney Crosby entered the league. I hate to put that on anybody because it's not fair. It is not reasonable. He reminds me of Sidney Crosby at this age where the points were all there, but you also saw, oh, this is something different.

Like when Connor McDavid came into the league, he was like nothing we had ever seen offensively. He was like, oh, my God, this guy's amazing. But it wasn't until he was like, you know, 26, 27 years old that he started to put the all-around game together. But where Crosby was a fully formed NHL two-way star right off the bat. And that's what I see with Celebrini. It's like it doesn't matter what position, where you are on the ice, he's making the right play. He is so far ahead of the mental part of the game, just ahead of where most guys his age are. He's just going to keep getting better and better.

And the sharks, I have a lot of concerns about the sharks. They've been drafting only basically offensive forwards for a while now. And let's keep it in San Jose because your guy, the guy you assured me was going to be the greatest goalie that ever lived, Yaroslav Ascarov, has been awful. He's been terrible. He's got an 866-7% percentage. I know he's playing behind a truly awful defensive team. The sharks are going to be this way for a while where they try to win six to five every night. But he's completely underwater in terms of goals saved above expected. He is not holding up his end of the bargain. Are you starting to have any concerns about Ascarov? Long term, no, not at all. I don't think he's ready to be an excellent goalie in the NHL right now. And I think that's pretty clear just from what we've watched so far. I mean, he's given he's had seven starts in four.

five of them. He's given up four or more. And a couple of them are like seven and six goals against. So he has just given up a ton of goals. However, this team isn't trying to win right now. They're, they're still building for the future. And I think that like in terms of like to put it in another terms of another sport, like in a, you watch a football team. They draft in a super high quarterback. They have no weapons. They have no offensive line. You're just looking for flashes of can this guy do, can he do special things? And Ascarov to me, even as bad as the start has been, is showing me plenty of that. His, I mean, his skating is elite. Even, even like, he's constantly in the right position. I will say this, his hands don't look good. And I will say that

a few scouts that I've talked to, that was the question of like, whether he's going to be an elite goalie or not, are his hands good enough? Because this guy, his skating is phenomenal. And when you're skating's that good, you're going to be in the right position most of the time. people are going to have to beat you with clean shots to your gloves. And so far, he has been beaten with quite a few shots up high to his gloves. So it's kind of a, we've seen flashes of why Ascroft can be amazing. I mean, his, I'm getting a little nerdy here again, but his internal hip rotation. So when you drop into the splits, that's already difficult. Most of us can't do that. But to be able to drop in the splits and then still have your pads facing forward is like something.

that a human body should not be able to do. But Ascarov does it in a way that I've never, even Babrovsky and Vasilevsky, the most flexible goalies on earth. Ascarovs is another level. His legs are rubber. They bend in a way that they shouldn't bend, and he makes some saves that only he can make.

Like, there's no other human on earth that would have made that save except for Ascarov. He's shown us that. He's also shown us flashes of why there were concerns. He is a fiery, competitive goalie who, like most goleys are kind of chill and they just like try to keep the highs and lows as as minimal as possible. That's not him. He is fired up. He is a crazy person back there. And we have seen flashes of maybe that getting a little over. He gets a little overwhelmed in games. He gives up a bunch of goals in a row.

He gives up like a flurry of goals because he had one bad one. And then he starts fighting it a little bit. So for him, we've seen, if you didn't like Ascarov as a prospect, you have seen things that you're like, yep, I told you he wasn't going to be good with his hands. He wasn't going to be good with this. If you like Ascarov, like me, we also have seen flashes of, I like that, I like that, that's what he's going to be good at. So it's sort of a mixed bag and yet to be seen. I'm still very optimistic for his long-term future, but it has been rough so far. Every time I see a goalie going to the splits, I wonder how that's the same species of animal that I am. A couple of years ago, I did a story on it. Like, I just went around and I asked

goalies around the league. How the hell do you do that? Do you just spend like your free time when you're at home just in the splits in front of the TV? Like you're just stretching. all the time because look, I'm 45 years old. I have incorporated stretching into my daily routine. I'm trying to not get all stiff and awful. It's impossible to do the things they do. You're a goalie. Just can you do the splits?

Yeah, I'm 35, so a little bit younger. And I play goalie three nights a week and I stretch pretty much every day. And I do a huge stretching routine before every game. And I cannot do the splits. I can do the splits. Are you close? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can do them if I like turn side, like if I kick my like, you know,

okay, so splits you can go like front to back or you can go sideways. I can do the front to back. So in a position where I have to like cover the whole bottom of the net, I can. But it is not the same splits you're seeing. And like I said from Ascarov, he he will do it in a position. Like most guys, they only do the splits when it's like a backdoor one timer and they've got to do it. Ascarov, it's so strange. Next time you're watching a shark's game, watch for this. He does it like once or twice a game and I'm like, oh, he's doing the thing again. It'll be like chaos in front of him. There'll just be a pile of humanity in front of him. and he's not sure where the puck's going to pop out.

He will go into his butterfly and then do the splits so that now he's just in this weird position where he's just covering the entire bottom of the net. There's no way the puck can go in the net unless it's lifted above his pads. And when he does that, I actually get kind of freaked out. I'm like, man, one of these times someone is going to like land on him while he's in that position.

And it looks so twisted. Like his body is twisted in a way that it is not supposed to be twisted. But he does it like, just like, okay, I don't know where the puck is. Let me just cover the bottom of the net by going into the same. splits and and stacking my pads out wide. It's, it's very, very strange. I don't know how he does it. It's amazing to watch. I hope he ends up being the goalie we all want because, man, is he fun? I think you just have to be a physical freak. It's either you can do it or you can't. It's like being double-jointed. You can either do it or you can't. I remember Cam Talbot when I was

doing that. I'm pretty sure it was Talbot. He told me, he's like, every time you're going to feel it in your 50s. Like, you will pay for it every single time, you will pay for it with like a painful step in your 50s. And it's just something that goalies seem willing to do because it gets them a lot of money and stardom and competitive fire and all that. But I don't think the human body is supposed to do that at all. If Cam Talbot is right about that, Ascarov is not going to have a very fun 50s. All right, let's talk about a goal. You touched on it very briefly earlier.

Linus Omark, dead last in the league and goals saved above expected minus 9.41 in 11 games. Look, you don't need to be Jesse Granger goalie guru to wince at that. What is happening to former Vez and the trophy winner? Linus Olmark. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. There is some legitimate concern watching his game. Like, the numbers are bad. The film matches it. The film is bad. I have legitimate concern that we are seeing the end of Linus Olmark as an elite goalie in this league. Like, he's not ancient. He's 32, which is older. He's on the wrong side of things. His game should definitely be on its way down, but not like, Bobrovsky's still looking the best he's ever looked in. He's 35. Like, goalie's

typically can extend their peak prime years a few years past mid-30s. I'm a little concerned for Allmark. Maybe this is just a blimp, but I will say he just looks slow. And he's never been a real fast athletic goalie. Like he's kind of a calm guy who kind of sits back in his crease and doesn't like, he's not a real athletic guy. But it's his reactions that are slow. Like the puck is hitting him and it's bouncing out for a rebound and he is tracking it the whole way and he's looking at it. And it's just the reaction time for him to get over there is not where it used to be and not where it needs to be to be goaltending at an NHL level. Like I, I'm very concerned. Red alert for me.

Red flags, sound the alarms in Ottawa. I am very concerned. Now, I'm not sitting here saying it's done. It's over. I've seen enough to say it's done. But, man, it is very concerning if you're a senator's fan because he came over and established a different culture. He was a huge part of why they made the playoffs. And if he is suddenly, they don't have a ton behind him either.

Marilynin is a young goalie who's not ready to play a bunch of games. It is all on Olmark. Like they've got a lot on his shoulders. And so far, I'm very concerned that he may not be able to carry it. That's fine. They're in the east. They're over 500. It's all good.

Let's talk some old guys. Look, there's never any reason to doubt Sidney Crosby. He deserves to be celebrated. So here's us celebrating him. I would like to say with Barkov hurt and Reinhardt underperforming, I would love to see this be Sidney Crosby's Selky Trophy. He never gets enough credit for his two-way play. And it would be kind of cool if, like, I'm staking my claim right now

that Sidney Crosby wins his first Selke trophy at age 97, whatever he is these days. Guy's just an absolute marvel of modern hockey. But what do you think is more likely? You've got two completely opposite sides here. If Gennie Malkin is killing it, Stephen Stamcoast is getting killed out there. He's got just one goal and one assist all season.

What's more likely, Malkin crashes down to Earth, or Stamcoast gets up off the mat here? You know what? I would say it's more likely Stamcoast gets off the mat because I, from everything I've seen from Malkin, I don't expect him to crash back down to Earth now. I don't think he's going to score 100 points this year. But I do expect him to have a good season. And I don't think it's going away for Hvgeny Malkin. So even though my confidence level in Stamcoast isn't like through the roof, I do think there's a better chance of him turning it around than there is Malkin falling apart. That's more so just optimism on Malkin's side. What about what would your answer to that be? I think it's more likely Malkin crashes down to earth. I look at Stamco's one of my favorite players to cover to watch for so long now. And it just seems like some guys, they gradually decline and some guys fall off a cliff. And I worry that Stamcoast is falling off a cliff here. He doesn't have a point in his last like eight games.

He's not very involved. The team isn't very good. Maybe, I mean, if he can get moved at the deadline, I think he's got one more year left in that contract. So I'm not sure we can get for a guy like that at this point. maybe in a different environment, he can kind of revive his career right now. But I hate seeing what Stephen Stamco's looks like right now because he's such a great guy and he's such a great player. You never want to see these players. He looks like Malkin did it stretches last year, right?

So, I mean, I guess there's some hope in that. But I have real concerns about Stamco's. I mean, I certainly have concerns about the Predators, but about Stamco's in particular. With a goal score like Stamco's, I would be more optimistic if he were getting a ton of chances and they just weren't going in. it's like, no, this is Stephen Stamcoast. Like, eventually those shots are going to hit the net. They're going to beat the goalie. But, like, so I went to Natural Statrick and I look at his shots per 60 at even strength.

And it is, if you're a National Predators fan, this is kind of scary. He basically hovers around seven shots per 60 minutes at even strength for his whole career in Tampa. He was as high as 8.7, but it was basically like, you look at his last few years in Tampa, it's 7.4, 6.2, 6.6.6, 7.1, 7.2. Well, his last two years in Nashville, last year, that dropped to 4.6, which is about half of what he averages every single season in Tampa. And now this year, 4.8, right there. That is not good. He has got to get more volume of shots towards the net. And I don't know if that's just he's not as fast. He can't get to the right

areas to get the puck for those shots or what it is. I don't watch. Nashville every single day to know exactly why he's not getting those shots. But that is highly concerning that his shots have basically been cut in half per 60 minutes since he came over to Nashville. All right. One more guy that's highly concerning right now. Look, we've been talking about so many young, exciting players here. Ivan Demadov looks amazing. Artem Leveshinov, he's an adventure out there, but he's getting better all the time in Chicago.

Leo Carlson looks so great. What about Matt Vei Mitchcov? This is a guy who probably would have gone second ahead of Leo Carlson and Adam Van Tilly right behind Badard if there hadn't been concerned about his KHL contract. He's got one goal in 12 games. John Tortorello was a tough stylistic fit for him, but it seems to be even shakier under Rick Tocket right now. I hate, it's too early to call anybody a bust, and Mitchcoff was good last year.

There was enough to see there. But this has got to be deeply concerning if you're a Flyers fan. The whole rebuild is built around this guy. Yeah, it's, and like he's been a weird player because even when he was playing great last year and making like these game winning goals and spectacular plays. I mean, Tortoella was still benching him every other night. And and as we, we joke and yeah, Torts is a little hard on young players and maybe he is more worried about the small details than he should be. But he's also a smart coach who like if he is willing to take a player off the ice that's that talented, they're clearly

doing some things wrong. Like there's no, the player isn't doing everything right and he's doing that. So I think we're seeing more of those warts kind of show themselves, even with a different coach. He's not a perfect player. And right now, obviously, he still makes some great plays. And he, his on-ice numbers are actually not that bad. Like they're outscoring the opposition with him out there. But he just isn't producing at the level that we want from him individually. So maybe it'll come around.

But I think that there are still like big holes in his game that he needs to be able to improve on. Yeah, Philly, you know, cling to. tightly to those Eagles and Phillies, because I think it's going to be a long time before the flyers. Like, other than maybe Calgary, I'm not sure there's a team in a worse overall position right now than the flyers. Like, even the penguins who we would have thought was in that spot, they're having a renaissance here with two of the greatest players of all time. So they're enjoying themselves. In Philly, it's a little bit rough right now. All right, Jesse, I got to get to a morning skate that's actually in the afternoon because time zones don't make any sense.

Thank you for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Subscribe on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show to watch full episode. and everybody's favorite Sean and the other Sean and Frankie Corrado have you covered on Wednesday. Thanks for listening, guys.