The Athletic Hockey Show - Toronto Maple Leafs, LA Kings & Carolina Hurricanes a win away from round two, Montreal awarded the first pick, but New Jersey is the big winner at the draft lottery

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports and Jesse Granger from the Athletic recap game 5 wins in Toronto and Carolina, and for St. Louis in Minnesota and Los Angeles in Edmonton, ahead of three game fives this evening, including the Penguins at the Rangers in an elimination game, and Washington/Florida and Dallas/Calgary which are tied at two games.The boys welcome the Athletic's Shayna Goldman who discusses the NHL draft lottery which sees the Montreal Canadiens retain the top pick, with the New Jersey Devils moving up to 2nd. Lou Lamoriello's archaic way of running the New York Islanders, the Edmonton Oilers management failure to solidify McDavid and Draisaitl with a solution between the pipes in Oil country and if Tom Fitzgerald might be interested in moving the 2nd overall pick. Plus Rob gets Jesse's opinion on the Vezina, Norris and Calder trophy finalists, and the power of the intermission speech on the heels of Jason Spezza's passionate pleas to his teammates in Toronto. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, guys? Welcome to another fantastic, which I guess is presumptuous because we haven't done the show yet. Fantastic edition of the athletic hockey show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am your host Rob Paisal from CVC Sports, joined as I am every single week by Jesse Granger in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? I'm doing great. How are you, Rob? Oh, loving every minute of the playoffs, as we talked about last week.

It's the greatest time of the year. And ordinarily, we have Saracivian come on. on and also say she's enjoying the playoffs, but she's on assignment. So we're giving her the week off. It's just me and you, Jesse, but I think we've got a lot to talk about. And it's not just going to be being you the whole show. Sheena Goldman's going to be joining us after the show. The team she covers, the New Jersey Devils came so close to getting that number one

overall pick. So we'll talk to her about that, the Montreal Canadiens, of course, getting that number one overall pick in the draft lottery yesterday. We'll talk about Barry Trots being fired. We'll talk about award nominations starting to trickle out. But Jesse, let's dive into this, man. I mean, we did this last week. We're going to do it again.

We're going to start with last night's games. Leafs and Lightning. Leaves with a 4-3 win. If you just look at the box score, it doesn't necessarily let you know what kind of hockey game this was. But Leaves with a 4-3 win to take a 3-2 series lead. They were down to nothing after what was, I can only describe as one of the worst periods I've ever seen a team play. And then showed hockey pucks I didn't know they had in the next two periods.

And arguably one of the most exciting third periods we've seen so far in the playoffs. I don't mean to take all the wind out of your sale. Maybe you were about to say the same thing. But what did you think of this hockey game? Yeah, no, it was really, really fun. I mean, like you mentioned, I agree that the game, the, the, the, the game. story of that game was so dramatic. It wasn't just your average, like, four-three win. It was so dramatic. And to me, like, we all love the, the, like, role player, the guy you don't

expect. Kivirontas scores a hat trick in Game 7. Like, we all love that story. But also, I like to just have a game where the stars, like, shine. And like, I'm, like, you go through the goals in that game. And it's Stephen Stamcoast, Victor Headman, Tavaris, Morgan Riley, Nielander, McDonough, Austin Matthews. Like, it was just every player that both of those teams needed to step up in that moment were just excellent in that game. And you mentioned it was a rough start for Toronto, but their stars got going and were just phenomenal those last two periods.

And Tampa obviously has no lack of star power. I was just, I love a good game where the best players play the best. And it's really fun to watch. I love that in all sports. I'll be honest, I'm not an underdog cheer. And not that I don't want underdogs to do well. and I understand why we have to look for a Cinderella team every March Madness. I get it.

I like dominance. I loved when Tiger Woods was winning every single golf tournament. I love when Roger Federer was considered unbeatable. I like dynasties. I like the Tampa Bay Lightning of one back-to-back Stanley Cubs. That's just me. So I'm with you. This was incredible.

But to me, as someone who's watched this team pretty closely, given my proximity to where I am to Toronto. I'm only about half hour away. This was huge for a number of reasons. We know Austin Matthews can score. He did it 60 times this year. But I've said this for years. The Leafs always seem to,

and specifically their superstars, always seem to be missing that playoff gear. Okay. You look at the great players who are in the game right now, the Sydney Crosby's, the Jonathan Taves, you know, the Alexander Obatchez. they score in the playoffs, but they do everything in the playoffs. They take it to a whole other level.

And I didn't see that last year with Austin Matthews or with Mitch Marner. I saw it last night. Austin Matthews, if I told you before this game that Austin Matthews would have the game winning goal and lead the entire game in hits thrown, you would have said, I'm insane. But this was the first time I saw those two bring it to another level. And if you're a leaf fan, you've got to be smiling after last night's game. Yeah, this is huge. I mean, I know the leaves, they kind of got shafted in terms of having to play the two-time

defending champs in the first round. Like this team that can't get out of the first round is now stuck with the most impossible, ridiculous first round matchup ever because of this way they seed these. But it might be a blessing in disguise. Like I know, like Toronto still has to win another game. But I feel like for a team that has had this like playoff curse, like, we can't get out of the first round hanging over them. If they had got an easy matchup, and like, to be honest, in the East, there aren't really

any bad teams. So it's kind of hard. Like, if they would have got the, if they would have got the Rangers, for example, and they, and they beat the Rangers in the first round, I think there would have been a going into the second round, there still would have been that same like, yeah, but they're the Leafs, like wait until they play a good team. If they can beat this Tampa Bay team in the first round, the confidence that that's going to give that group that has had so, like kind of almost a waiting for the bad thing.

to happen feeling in Toronto. Like everyone's just kind of waiting for the wheels to fall off. I feel like it could be a blessing of disguise playing this awesome Tampa team in the first round. If they can get past them, this Leafs team is scary. I think it's better. I mean, you look at this team, they've had a tendency to play down to their opponents' skill level.

I mean, they lost three or four to Buffalo this year. I mean, what does that tell you right there? I think facing a really, really good team and you can't get much better than the two-time defending champs is a good thing. And one other thing we got to mention, huge question mark going into the playoffs for this Leafs team was goal 10. We've talked about it throughout the entire year. Jack Campbell has gone from, hey, could he win the Vesna to, hey, he can't stop a beach ball. We need to find someone at the deadline.

And forget looking at his numbers. I know we're in an age where we love to just have a number to back everything up. If you watch that hockey game, he made saves at crucial times when that team was down to nothing. it could have been three, four, nothing, especially after that first period. Kutrov had a couple opportunities that could have easily had this game out of reach. And he kept them in that game. And can you ask anything more from your goaltender than just give you a chance to win in the playoffs? Yeah, no, I agree.

I think Campbell's been solid. I think there have been like league wide or, yeah, league wide, I guess, in these playoffs, there have been some not so solid goaltending situations that have led to teams like falling apart. And Campbell's been solid. I don't think he's been spectacular, but I think, like, I agree with you. Keeps the team in the game. Tampa is obviously really dangerous and made some big saves, key saves in big moments in that game to kind of keep them within striking distance.

All right. So they're going to try to get out of the first round for the first time since 2004. Moving on the Hurricanes with a 5-1 win over the Bruins, bouncing back from two straight losses. So they're up three games to do in that series. five different hurricanes with a multi-point game here. Seth Jarvis with a couple goals, Sebastian Ajo, who's just, I think he's been great in these playoffs. And now they're one game away from kind of getting past that, I don't want to call it a scare.

I don't think losing to Boston would have been that big of an upset, but that looked like the Carolina Hurricanes team we kind of expected going into this series, right? Yeah, they're so good. And you mentioned the way they spread the scoring around. I mean, this team is just, to me, they're the most balanced team in the NHL right now in terms of just, it's just wave after wave. They don't have one big line. Like you look at Boston, the team they're playing or Colorado or Toronto. They've got one or two really, really big lines that they rely on. Carolina is just getting it from everywhere.

I'm looking at this morning. I'm looking at the playoff leaders in points. And Tony DiAngelo is currently fifth in the NHL in playoff points. The only players with more points than Tony. DiAngelo in the playoffs are Cail McCar, Sidney Crosby, Brad Marshand, and Connor McDavid. Like, what in the hell is going on? And, and like, like, he obviously is bringing the offense. He had that ridiculous slap shot last night painted into the top corner. And Jacob Slavin, he hasn't been maybe the offensive, like the numbers guy, but Slavin, when I'm watching the game, he's unbelievable,

how well he just manages and controls the game. Like, I don't know, that that series can sometimes feel a little chaotic. And then Slavin gets on the ice and it just feels like everyone on the hurricanes, like takes a deep breath. And it's like, all right, we're a little more under control now. He calmly moves it up and there suddenly played the whole shift in the offensive zone. Like, I just love watching Slavin play. Speaking of DiAngelo, though, how about him taking a shot at the Bruins fans, where he said,

yo, it's nice to be in a rink that's much louder than it was last game. It's like, you know what, we haven't heard anything, let's call it spicy from Tony DeAngelo or any stories about him really, except for just, like you said, performing in the playoffs. I love here and stuff like that. And then we mentioned that Sarah's away today, but I don't know if you saw Sarah's question to Rod Brindamore. He was wearing like a red Paisley tie.

And she said to him, did you pick that tie out? And he was so happy that someone had asked him about the tie because he said the players were all just giving it to him about this tie. And I bring that up for a reason. One, we got to get Sarah in the show somehow. Two, he looked so relaxed. And I wish Sarah was here because I know she loves talking about Rod Brindamore.

You talk about this team and just the fact that they don't rely on one line. When you're such a balanced team like this, you do have to have a relaxed atmosphere. You know what I mean? You can't just say, well, Austin, Mitch, you go out there or, you know, Randon and McKinnon, you go out there and get us back in this game. And I just feel like this team's kind of relaxed right now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Brindamore is such a good coach. Like, I just, I think an underrated part of coaching is the, the tone you set for your team. Agreed. To me, they're, like, I don't think Rod Brindamore is the best tactician there is in the NHL. Like, I'm sure there are coaches that can on a whiteboard draw circles around the guy. But like, no one sets a better tone for their team on the bench than Rod Brindamore. Like, he's just phenomenal at that.

And just what he does. All the story. We've heard a million times when players are saying, well, I'm going to show up to the gym and I'm going to beat Rod Brindamore. And by the time they show up to the gym, he's already sweating. Like, it's, he's that very prototypical players type coach. And I saw that and he kind of joked about the tie and everything. And I just kind of thought, you know what? That's a calming influence to a team that, you know, obviously goaltending has been kind of the question mark going in with injuries and everything else. He just calmed them down.

They knocked down their penalties. They had a bad game. They had nine penalties in game four. didn't get as many in game five. So they've got a three two series lead, looking to close that game out. And then you've got the Blues in the Wild, which again,

if I told you five games in, we'd have three hat tricks. You'd think I was nuts. Vladimir Tarasenko, not only a hat trick, a natural hatrick in the third period with the game tied at two. So the Blues win five to two.

They're up three games to two in this series. Is this going anything like you thought it would? because it's it's a little weird this one, I think. It's funny you say that because that's literally what I was going to say. This is the most unpredictable. Like I feel like I have no feel for this series. So we have, I think, six or seven of us at the athletic. They're doing, we're picking the games daily.

So they're like, they show our picks and then they're keeping our record at the bottom. And I'm pretty sure I've missed every single game in this, this blues wild series. I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I just had to make my pick for their next game this morning. and it's like flip a coin. Like I literally have no idea what's happening in this series. They're both so evenly matched. I think Minnesota is a better team,

but for whatever reason, St. Louis just seems to match up with them. Their record, they're like 13 and three against them or something like that. And they're last, like St. Louis just seems to match up with this team really well. Obviously, uh, Teresanko with a huge game.

David Peron has been really good. Um, yeah, I mean, that series, they're just, to me, it's like two, there is no series where the teams are more evenly matched than that one.

I also make picks every single night, only I don't just get commenters saying I'm terrible at making picks. The account balance on my sports book goes down every time I make a bad pick. And I'm telling you right now, I just, the way you said it there, I can't get a feel for this series. I just have to stop trying to pick a Blues Wild game. Just leave it alone. One quick thing before I move on from this series, Teresenko with the hat trick last night,

and somebody asked him, and I apologize because I didn't hear the question. so I can't give the reporter any credit about, you know, Caprisov had a couple goals last night as well. And he already has a hat trick in this series too. About the whole Russian connection. Is it, is it fun to outrush in the other Russian? And he made a point, Teresenko made a point to say, well, no, this is about the wild and the blues. But he also said that, yeah, there are some, quote, extra emotions. Never really thought of that in the playoffs. But I wonder if players from other countries do look on the other side and say, all right, they've got a Russian score. We've got a Russian scorer. Our Russian scores got, I don't mean the rest of the team.

I mean Teresenko and Caprisoff. Do you think that comes into player? Am I my grasping of straws? I don't know. To be honest, I'd never really thought of that either. It's an interesting concept. I mean, I guess with those two, it's because they're like the two like star players. I mean, I guess the blues have kind of score by committee. But those are the two guys in this series. Like, I wonder if it would be the same if they were like both Swedish or yeah, basically anything other than Canadian and American just because there are so many Canadians and Americans. Like I wonder if they, to be honest, I'd never really thought of it. Neither did I until I saw the presser after the game. And I was like, oh yeah, like really Caprisaw's

been great. Teresenko's been great. Is it something of national pride? Like, I want to bring the Stanley Cup back to Russia to my friends and family. I don't know. I was with you. I never thought of it until I saw that and he said extra emotions. And I went. Hmm. Interesting. Anyways, so that series also 3-2, of course, all the series were talking about from last night, 3-2 because they all went in deadlocked at 2. And this is the one that I want to dive into a bit here. Kings with a 5-4 win in overtime over the Oilers.

So now the Kings have themselves a 3-2 lead. We're one game away from really playing the what now with the Edmonton Oilers, especially the way they lost this game. The Kings were up three one after two periods. McDavid and Drysidle went bananas in the third period, five combined points. And I thought about you while watching this because I loved the goal McDavid scored. I mean, it wasn't a typical highlight go through five guys, McDavid goal. But he got poke checked by Jonathan Quick and still managed to hang on to the puck and score the goal.

And I remember you, Jesse, saying, how do you know McDavid scored a really nice goal? The Oilers lose the hockey game. And what happened? The Oilers lost the hockey game in overtime. Kempi, with the winner. All I can do is kind of pull my color, like,

oh, are we really going to have to talk about another early exit by the Eminson Oilers? Yeah. And it's just, to me, it's, this is not good for the Oilers.

Even if they were to somehow, like, win the next two games, it's just the Pacific Division is so bad. When I, when I, like, as someone who covers a team in the Pacific Division,

I watch these teams all years. year. To me, my biggest takeaway of the first round is like how much worse the Pacific Division is than the rest of the NHL. Like it's, it's, we're talking it's a mid-major conference in college basketball. Like it's, they're so bad. Like, I'm watching the Eastern Conference and I'm like, man, Tampa Bay, Boston, Florida, these teams are trailing in their series and they would just demolish the Pacific Division with ease. So to me, it's, you're Edmonton and you're losing another first round series, but they aren't in the situation Toronto's in where they get matched up against the two-time defending champs.

You're playing the Los Angeles Kings, a team that was not even supposed to be in the playoffs, and they don't even have Drew Dowdy. They're arguably their best player in the game. Like, this is a hampered underdog Kings team that is punching above its weight right now that does not probably belong in this round or in the second round, and they're beating an Oilers team that's getting production from McDavid and Drysidal. It's not, McDavid and Drysiddle aren't drying up. Like, they're playing big time playoff hockey.

They're doing what they need to do. And the rest of that team is just so bad that they can't even beat a King's team that is not this powerhouse team that is like giving the, that should give the Oilers troubles. Funny thing is too, if I would have told you before the series started that you and I would be talking about the Kingsman three two series lead. I don't know about you. I would have said, well, then Mike Smith's playing like garbage. It's Mike Smith's allowing four goals game. It's not Mike Smith. He kept them in in this game last night to a point where you're like, okay, guys, like, back your.

your goalie up, it looked like they were going to. And here's the other question I wanted to ask you, because, you know, when we talked about game one with the penguins and the Rangers, you talked about how demoralizing that loss is. When you lose in triple overtime, even though it's game one, it's like, how do you bounce back? I felt that with the Oilers last night. How do you rally in the third period, have your best players be your best players, two of the best offensive players on the planet and lose and not have that?

Like, it's just a gut punch. Yeah. And then McDavid after the game says like four goals should be enough to win a game in the playoffs. Like it, the comments after certainly went along with that. Like it gave you the feeling that that was a tough loss. And McDavid and Drys-Edle are sitting there looking at each other in the locker room. Like, well, we did that in the third period. Like when those two, when they put those two back on the same line together in the third period, it was like, man.

The second they touched the ice, it was like four high danger chances for the Oilers every single time. Like, it was incredible. They literally cannot be better than they were in that third period. And they still couldn't beat a, like I said, this is Kings team. Yeah. Kings team that is, they're playing structured hockey. Like, give them credit.

They play structured hockey. They've got a lot of guys that are like Philip Dino's playing his ass off right now. They've got a lot of guys that are playing above their, like what, what your expected level for them would be. But come on. A team with the two of the best players in the world, you've got to be able to beat that Kings team. You have to.

A couple quotes I want to read from post game. McDavid, quote, obviously we haven't brought our best game yet. Well, you don't say as a whole. Drysidal, quote, we're not playing to our standard. We're not working to our standard. And that starts with my line. So dry sidle was a little more like, hey, this is a team situation. But I think the key to this series is they've been brutal in every first period.

Almost everyone. Game two, they had three goals. But three of the five games, they've been outscored after the first period. Last night, again, they looked brutal in the first period. whatever you're doing in the before the first period, to prepare in these games, do something that's completely opposite because this team is not producing.

And playing from behind is just, it's exhausting. It's got to be absolutely exhausting. So now they're down three games to two. And man, what an off season it's going to be, not only for the Oilers, but anyone who covers this team in the office season

because you can only have, like I said, two of the best offensive players on the planet on your team for so long. and not have some sort of sniff at a championship the way they really haven't. Three games tonight. Let's go through these, Jesse. Penguins and Rangers, Pittsburgh looking to finish off the New York Rangers,

and they've been scoring 14 goals in the last two games and really done the impossible. I can't believe they've chased Shisterkin in back-to-back games. This is another one where I think the biggest surprise has to be between the pipes with the Rangers. Yeah, and I don't even think Shosturkins played poorly. I think he's actually been pretty good, but I think this is a case of the Rangers, analytically, we're not a good team all year long, and their goalie played so well that they made it to this point. And now you reach a point where you've got a coach that's able to like really, really find ways to beat this goalie, and you've got seven games to go against the same guy. And I think the penguins have kind of found him out. What stands out to me, I was looking at some numbers. this morning just kind of seen if anything pops. And man, Sidney Crosby is still an absolute monster. Just like we, like we see the goals and we like you see the highlight place, but like he's, he's played 73 minutes at even strength in this series. With Sydney Crosby on the ice, the penguins have outshot the Rangers 65 to 34. The scoring chances are 63 to 23. And the high

danger chances are 37 to 6. 37 to 6 with Sidney Crosby on the ice. It even straight. I mean, he has been an absolute force in this series. It's fun to watch. He still got it. We're talking about McDavid and Matthews and all these new guys or all these younger guys taking over and playing big time in the playoffs. Sydney Crosby still doing it. I remember being on the air during Sydney Crosby's rookie season and saying what's incredible is every time he's on the ice, I feel like the penguins have a couple of really good scoring chances. And here we are. Remember, that was in 2004 or 2005.

Here we are in 2022 and it's like it's nothing. And again, this goes back to the Matthews thing I was talking about. A couple of his scoring chances and a couple of his goals have been pure outwork, out muscle type goals. And when you sprinkle in the skill that he has with that, it's incredible. picked up his 200th point in game four. You look at the only players with more points in the playoffs all time than Sidney Crosby.

You've got Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Yari Curry, Glenn Anderson, and Yager. And Yager only has one more point. He's going to pass Yager barring anything crazy happening. So it'll be top five all time in playoff points. Just crazy. And the Penguins look good, man. Malkins playing well. Again, I think the Rangers are probably the weakest team in the East,

especially when Shisterkin's not on fire. But the penguins, the penguins look like they're a team that can absolutely go on a run. One question for you, because I know you've dealt with Gerard Glent in the past. This was what his post game quote after their last loss. We played soft all over the ice. That's the biggest difference.

We were soft all over the ice. Thought you saw a lot of soft, bad plays, but a lot of people. It was a team effort tonight. So sometimes, you know, I find being a coach, you talk about the X's and O's versus just being a motivator, and Gerard Galantzman, a motivator everywhere. But, oh, I don't know if calling your team soft is a motivating thing or,

uh, I don't know what, what's the right way to put this or, or a way that just get your team even more down. Soft is, soft is a bad, bad insult from your coach. Right. Soft is a word in hockey that I feel like is you have to be careful with it. Yeah. It's strong. Like it's a soft is a very,

strong word in hockey, like stronger than it is in other contexts. I, like you said, I covered Galant for a couple years here in Vegas. I think he knows his team. Like, he, he knows the players in that locker room and he knows that if calling them soft in, in the postgame press conference is going to maybe get a little more physicality out of him, then that's what he's going for. Like, I, I think Galant, one of his biggest strengths, we were talking about Brindamore. I think he, the players and his relationship with his players are, it's so good. Like, I think he understands his players incredibly well. So you're saying this would be a motivator.

Yeah. Yeah. I trust Turks, uh, caught like judgment on, on what these words will do to his players. I really do trust that he knows his players and how they react. Um, I just think they're, to me, they're just outmaned. Like, I think this Rangers team was not expected to, to be this good this year. they have been just on the back of Igor Shisterkin. And when he's not making highlight real save after highlight real save, they're in trouble.

Show me a good goalie. I'll show you a team in the playoffs. Capitals and Panthers series tied to two. Panthers in the regular season, of course, won the president's trophy. Average 4.1 goals per game, which was first in the league. In the playoffs, 2.75, 12 out of the 16 teams. But I will say in game four, they certainly dominated the entire game, complete play. play and you look at Washington Capitals had 16 shots in the whole game, a game that went to

overtime. I don't know how they stayed in that game, but they did. But is it, I'm wondering about this Panthers team. Is there a reason to worry if you're a team, if you're a fan of this team? Yeah, I think there is. I think they should still be able to win this series. But I think when you win the president's trophy, your goal, your aspirations are not to win the first round. It's to go deep in the playoffs. And to me, this offensive issue, I guess, not quite clicking as well as it was. I mean, they have to solve it before the second round if they're going to get there and if they're going to go on a deep run. So yeah, I think there's concern. Seven players didn't have a shot on net for the Washington Capitals in that game too. It's just, yeah, like you just, you just can't,

including Baxter and Manta. Like, yeah, that was just, that was just ugly. And I expect some sort at some point, I keep waiting for this Panthers team to put up like an eight spot. You know what I mean? Like just do what they did all year long. And then you got the stars and the flames. Game four, the flames set a franchise record for shots on net. 54 shots on net.

That's the franchise record without overtime, I should mention. And they scored more goals in that game than the first three games combined. I felt like that was the first time we saw the Calgary Flames we've been expecting in these playoffs. Agree or disagree? Yeah, for sure. They have not looked like. To me, Calgary is maybe not quite as good as Carolina, but they remind me a similar team in that they kind of swarm. They play in waves.

They've got a really good depth at the forward position. But they got a great top. A lot of guys. That's the difference. Right, right. Right. Exactly. They really do lean on those guys.

But to me, the story of this series has been the goalies. Jake Ottinger. Yeah. Like, again, looking at the stats, the top two goalies in the entire NHL and save percentage in the first round are Jake Ottinger, 960, and Jacob Markstrom, 952. The two best save percentages in the league are both in this series. They're both playing really well. Ottinger, I mean, he's 23.

I loved watching him in Boston in college. And I think he's got a bright future. I think this is his first taste of playoff hockey. He's handled himself really well. The difference is I think one of those two goalies can handle it. I don't know how much longer Ottinger can, you know, I just, it's no surprise that Jacob Markstrom's playing the way he is, because I think we all kind of expected this.

Ottinger's one, you could almost smell one of those games where he just, he's brute, allows three, four goals in the first period because he's just exhausted. You know, like he's, especially that game,

he just looked tired. But let's face it, the Dallas stars are the Dallas stars and where they are right now because of him. He is, he is the story of this series. Yeah, the stars were not playing good hockey down the stretch.

I watched a lot of them just because Vegas was kind of battling with them. And to me, they looked like a team that was already not one of the more talented teams and they were backing into the playoffs. Like, they did not play well down the stretch at all. I mean, even the game that they clinched the playoffs, they let the coyotes come back and beat them in overtime. Like this team was not playing well. So the fact that they're even making this a series, I don't know if that's an indictment on Calgary or if maybe we should just give Audinger all the credit. But yeah, I'm surprised Dallas is hanging. I will say in game four, I loved the opening face off when Milan Luchich took the opening face off against Jamie Ben and tried to fight him

and Ben didn't want to fight him, but it was basically saying, you know, and they talked about a lot on the broadcast, if you want to get physical and you want to fight, you're doing it with me. You're not doing it with Kachuk. And I find that is one of those fine lines that people need to dance on if you're a scorer in the playoffs. You don't want to be a push over. You don't want to not have any fight in you, but you also have a job to do. And Matthew Kachuk can't put the puck in the net or pick up points from the penalty box.

That's Mieland Lujic's job. And he wanted to let him know. And the game completely took a different turn because you can tell that Jamie Ben was trying to get under Kachuk's skin, which is interesting because it's usually Kachuk trying to get under someone else's skin. But that was huge.

And that's why you get, I'm not trying to say Milan Loo Cheach is, you know, a cons of a trophy candidate, but that's why. why you have guys like him on your team. Right. And especially when Luchich is playing as well as he is. Like, to me, if that type of player can just be, like, you don't have to be spectacular, but just don't be a liability out there. And you're a huge asset to the team. And he's done more than that. I think he's actually been an asset, even without all of that extracurricular stuff,

which no one does better than Lucci. I think he's actually been playing really well. So yeah, I mean, he's a big part of what Calgary's doing. So there you have it, seven series because one has already done a waste of eight days for the Nashville Predators. I know you love that line. I saw your tweet. So, yeah, that was blink and you missed that series. Kail McCarer leading the playoffs in scoring right now. But we don't need to analyze that anymore.

Shana Goldman is going to be joining us. We'll talk devils. We'll talk playoffs. We'll talk Barry Trots. We'll talk a little bit of everything. So don't go anywhere. Well, if you read The Athletic every single day and you absolutely should be, you'll know that our next guest, Shana Goldman, not only covers the New Jersey Devils, but has been analyzing some of the series in this first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs. She's joining us now. Thanks for doing this, Shana.

Thanks for having me. All right. Well, Jesse and I broke down every remaining series in the first segment. And a couple of them we've said are a little baffling and tough to figure out. Jesse and I both agree, the wild and the blues, we just can't get a feel on it. What series really jumps out to you that it's just not going the way you thought it would? I think that's a good one, the Wild and the Blues. I thought it would be somewhat even, but I was surprised at some of the blowouts earlier in it. So it's nice, the games are getting a little bit closer. But I do think it's a little surprising.

Some of the results don't match up. It's like the team that's playing better isn't the one that's winning every game. and the other series, I guess that's kind of surprising to me. I would say not the fact that the penguins are in the lead, but just how disastrous the Rangers have been. Like I expected Pittsburgh to win, but I didn't expect them to absolutely kick their asses like they are. It's, yeah, it's,

and we talked about the Schisturkin factor and everything else, but the Euler one too is one that we're kind of trying to figure out because if the Edmonton Oilers end up losing that series, Shana. We said it's going to be a long offseason, not only for oilers and the Oilers, but for anyone covering this team, because it's going to be a huge game of what now. Yeah. That's such an intriguing one because the Kings have all the makings to be this like total disruptor in the playoffs. And they're doing exactly that. And the Oilers, I think, okay, I think an idiot can close their eyes and point out that roster and tell you what the problem

is. And I think they could the entire season. And those in charge are the only ones, either they know it and can't fix it or they don't know it. And that's kind of concerning. And while they made good moves at the deadline at the end of the day, there's flaws with this team. And coaching change did help. The additions they made did help. But they have two of the best forwards in the league. And sometimes it's like that's the best you got. And to see how, you know, they're going to go against Copatarn to know, it's super intriguing.

And I think it's fun to watch. But it's going to be a long offseason for them. If like at this point, you look at where they are, the peak of McDavid and Dreysidal, if they don't make it to round two or three, that's a huge loss. If they don't make it, you know, out around one, what do you do? Like, what drastic move can you do? Because we've seen them make drastic moves that have just set the team back. That's it.

That's the what now game. It's going to be all offseason if this team loses game six against the Kings. Last night we had the draft lottery, and I knew you were coming on the show. And every time Bill Daly turned over one of those cards, I'm like, we got Shane on the show tomorrow. Devil still haven't been mentioned. Devil still haven't been mentioned. Devil still haven't been mentioned. get down to the final two.

The devils end up with the number two pick moving up, you know, in the draft. Were you on pins and needles like we were thinking, oh, my goodness, Shane Wright could be a New Jersey devil? I felt like the cards were not going to be in their favor for the first overall pick, but once they didn't go to their natural slot, I'm like, okay, they're definitely going to finish second, which I guess is better for the rest of the league because I think everyone would be pretty annoyed if they're like getting the Oilers luck with all those first overall picks and like you look at where they are now. I'm super intrigued though because on breakup day, general manager Tom Fitzgerald said like he would

be willing to trade that first round pick wherever it may be to get an impact player. And now that it's a second overall pick, you still do that. And, you know, I look at it and I go, they could make that pick. But maybe they look at it because at the end of the day, you should be drafting the best player who's available on the board, regardless of position, regardless of need. But maybe it is a center who's the next best player. do you trade down to four or five and try to get a very good player plus that lower pick from another team that might want to move up? Like, that might be the most intriguing thing that they

could do at this point, but I'm curious to see how it works out. So he was saying that he would trade the first round pick for a veteran, like to bring in like an immediate like player in his prime. Yeah, it sounds like I know on Sportsnet, Jeff Merrick linked them to Kevin Fiala. And that's, you know, I think the area they'd want to be where it's a player who's in their prime right now and is going to be, you know, at the top of their game for a bit, not so much, you know, you could turn to free agency and go for that 28-year-old, 29-year-old, and there's some good players out there. You can look, you know, for Johnny Goodrow or Philip Forsberg, but good luck, but maybe, you know, you could try for a pending RFA instead and go a little bit younger player under contract. Um, they need another

top line winger, but it's, they have, you know, needs in net as well. So it's interesting now, like, does that pick come off the table? Do they look at it and go, well, our top prospect is Alexander Holtz, do we want to trade him instead? Like, they have a, you have. options, but I feel like if anyone should be making splashing moves, it's the devils, but they can't just win the offseason. They need to actually make something of it. Do you think they're actually in the position right now to be, like, I don't know, from the outside, like someone who's not paying super close daily attention to the devils, I feel like that's crazy that they would even be considering that. Like, I feel like they're in the position to add talent for the future with the number

two pick. The fact that they would be looking to kind of go into like win now mode would be a little surprising to me. Yeah, I don't think that they're going to be contender status, no matter what they do this summer. But I do think that they can be a team with the right moves that tries to compete for an actual wildcard spot, even if they fall short. It's like the next natural step in the process. And I do wonder if they're going to get closer to it, but you need a goaltender because that was the biggest problem this year. They had, I think it was 66 goals more than expected that they allowed between all seven of their goalies. That's disastrous. So that's step one. They're bringing a new assistant coaches at the very least, which they needed. Their power play was an absolute wreck.

You know, it killed momentum constantly. They allowed numerous short-handed goals. And, you know, maybe some tweaks to the defensive system won't be a bad thing. Their penalty kill was good, so they can build on that. The bottom of their lineup needs help up front. The bottom of their defense needs help. They have a fine top for it. They can stay healthy, but they need a third pair that's not a liability. So maybe they can make like low-risk moves there, but they also have to extend just for Brat, that's most important, and then bring in another winger.

So if they can expect some of their younger players to slot in and come in on entry-level deals and low-end contracts like that, they can make that splashy move and try to put things together to get closer, but if they're going for an impact player, it doesn't make sense to go for the 28, 29-year-old who is very good right now,

but in two years when the devil should be very good is going to be, you know, slightly over the hill. And I know it's so bad to be like, oh, the 30-year-old's bed, but like, we know how. this works. You know, you wanted that at the time of your window, your players in their prime, not those years are behind them and they'll still be good, but you're paying them and now costorizing elsewhere. So I think that they have like the makings to be a competitive

teams last year. If you look at the team in front of the goal tending, basically before the very end of the season when injuries piled up, the Jack Hughes injury and everything, but between the Christmas pause and the Jack Hughes injury, there were a lot of signs of progress in front of the net, but the problem was they did not get to save. Found it funny that you started four consecutive sentences with they need. And that's what I think that's, like, and that's what Jesse I think is kind of leading towards here is.

I think Mike, one of my questions I wanted to ask you is, you know, with Jack Hughes, with Heeshire, are they going to draft? Is it, is it a foregone conclusion that they draft the winger? And,

and now it's just one of those situations where I didn't know this either, that they're looking to possibly move the pick. Yeah. I just, yeah, they were. They were, but now. Yeah, interesting. No, they could go for a defenseman.

They just don't need a center. They have Dawson Mercer, who they've already shifted to wing because it doesn't make sense for him to play 3C when you want to playing top six minutes. So at that point, they should definitely, if they feel that the center is the best player on the board, maybe try to move down to third or fourth.

And we don't see that enough in the NHL, where a team with the second overall pick tries to slide back to five, not moves it all together. but you can still get a lot back. The problem is, like you said, I started with they need. They do need a lot. But if any team has the assets to do it in terms of picks, prospects, and cap space,

you know, they definitely do. Is it the lengths of the Seattle cracking? What they have to move? No, but they have, if they play their cards right, they could have a competitive team. Not necessarily a playoff team or a good team, but an actually competitive team. What both of your opinions on this,

devil's at number two, but it's so interesting to me that Kent Hughes is going to have his first ever draft, first ever time he walks to the podium, first ever time he says, you know, the Montreal Canadian select, in front of his home crowd in Montreal, and it's the number one overall pick?

I mean, I'm not one of these conspiracy theory guys that says, oh, you know, the frozen envelope or anything else because we know it doesn't happen. But man, this is almost like Disney movie. Like, I couldn't believe. And I know they had the biggest shot to win at 18.5%. but this is it was almost comical when they actually got it.

The Jeff Gorton effect. Very lucky. Yeah. Yeah. What did you think of that, Jesse? When you saw Montreal. Oh, I thought, man, I can't wait for July. Yeah.

I'll be in Montreal. We're all going there for the draft. And I am so excited. I mean, like the fact that, like, it was already going to be exciting because we knew Montreal was going to have a high pick. And, and obviously that city is great. I've been to Montreal a few times and I absolutely love it. Awesome.

And I've only been there in January. So the weather has been just miserable every time I've gone. And I still love the city. So going there in July, everyone's going to be excited. The team's got the first overall pick. I am so pumped for that draft. More excited than I've ever been for a draft. You mentioned Montreal.

We knew they were going to get a top pick. And that's because of some of the new rules. I want both of your opinions on some of the new draft lottery rules. And in case you don't know them, they only drafted the top two spots last. night that the remaining 16 teams got slated in as far as the standings go and you could only move up 10 picks so only the 11 worst teams in the NHL had a shot at the number one overall pick and the other change was no team will be able to move up the board by winning the lottery more than two times in a five year period because we've seen it happen in the past um I know it's

one draft lottery in with these new rules but thumbs up or thumbs down channel start with you I think it's fine. I do think some of the rules probably were inspired by the year of the bubble when teams got to be in the playing and then still be in the draft lottery, which isn't exactly fair because they were teams that definitely should not have been in the bubble at all, like Montreal, Chicago, New York. So it's tough that I feel like that had to inspire it, but I think it's fine. Like, there are a lot of teams that have gotten the first overall pick and done nothing with it. And it is tough, but you don't want to see teams. tanking and things like that. I get that. For now it's fine, but I do think we have to see a little bit more of it to see like, I mean, it sucks because then it would be reactionary. Did anybody get screwed now? Let's, you know, act and react. But I don't know. I guess they're fine. You know, you can't move up too much. That's a little bit more fair. Maybe, you know, the team and Laius should have sucked more. I don't know. Like, what's the other solution? Jesse? Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything Shana said. I think it, I understand the reasoning. I will say that it does take a lot of

the excitement away from the, the teams that are like, have the like one percent chance. Like also, like covering the Golden Knights, it was, okay, they have a zero point eight percent chance of winning the lottery. And that is to move up to sixth, which, okay, like, great. If you're a Golden Knights fan, like how much now, there was a little more intrigue for Vegas just because they would have kept the pick if they had won the lottery because it was top 10 protected from Buffalo in the Ikel trade. So there was that added, but like say you don't have that and you're just the team with the 15th best or worst record, there's very little reason for you to care about the lottery draft, whereas the lottery, whereas I think prior when you do have, yes, I know it's only 0.01% chance. You still

did have a chance. Technically, if the ball pops up, you're in the first overall pick. So there was at least a small reason to care. I do think that this new format for like five teams that have no chance of moving up into the top couple picks, there's not a whole lot of reason to care. I get it too. I mean, they don't want the really crappy teams to fall to like four, as we've seen in the past. They wanted Montreal to have that, you know, a top pick. But the other thing, too, the whole you can't win the lottery, you know, a certain amount of times over a certain amount of years might be a little what Shana was alluding to there, a little bit of an overreaction. It's happened, but really, if you do a thousand lotteries,

do we think it's going to happen that many times? Do we think the Edmonton Oilers are going to get three straight number one picks that many times? It just seemed like a bit of an overreaction to me. As long as Taylor Hall's in the playoffs, we can for sure know that it won't happen. If Taylor Hall starts missing the playoffs again, then that's when things start to get sketchy. It's going one way or the other.

But like, it's really interesting, too, because as much as teams can be upset, And like, this is harsh. If you're upset, you didn't get the first overall pick. There's still other players. We know the odds of a player coming, you know, from the first or second slot. It really does trend down, you know, in the later rounds. And Dom, Lushishen did a ton of work on that, which, you know, built off work others had done about the value of a draft pick.

But if you want your, you feel that you can't draft a good player if you're not first overall, you might want to get a better, you know, draft and scouting. Scouting department, yeah. Yeah, you look at teams like Tampa Bay and look at players like Braden Point from the third round or Nikita Kutraoff. and you can find gems if you just look outside the box, and more importantly, you develop them properly. So you shouldn't be panicking as much if you fall from second to fifth

if you have a smart staff. We saw Kel McCargo fourth. Right. And Quinn Hughes went fifth. There are impact players to be had if you can find them and, you know, can get outside the biases like the NCAA bias, or they're small and they're not physical. Or, you know, they look like a boy among men.

There's so many different ways that you can try to work around it. And I'm not saying that, you know, that there's not value to the first overall pick. There obviously, you know, there obviously is. But if you have a very good scouting staff, it doesn't matter where you pick, you can find the hidden gems and, you know, make the most of them because drafting is one step. And the rest is on you after that. It is. It is.

I get it. But it's usually a generational talent who's taking it. When it doesn't happen, it's a bust. When it does happen, it's what was supposed to. We all knew Connor McDavid was going to be there. We all knew Austin Matthews is going to be there. We just, the best players of our generation were all drafted first overall. So that's where I think their thought process is coming from.

I think it varies depending on the draft class. Like I think there are classes where the first overall pick, everyone knows like this. I'd rather have this pick than the next 30 picks. Yeah. Right. And then they're like this one. Like Shane Wright is pretty clearly like the unanimous like number one overall player. But would it shock any of us if the guy taken third is better than him?

Like it wouldn't shock me at all. Like no surprise. And like you mentioned Kail McCar, like that draft, Heeshire and, sorry, Heiskenin, that class, like, they're just ridiculous talent in the top five. Like, I think a lot of classes, the number one overall pick is not as important. And then every once in a while, a Matthews and a McDavid comes around and it's like, yeah, I would trade literally anything for that. And that's the whole. And that's it. Yeah.

They set the bar way too high. If you're expecting with David and Matthews every single draft, then if Nico Heeshire has a crap first year, or Jack Hughes does, or Lexi Lafrenier does, you're just like, you know what? they're just not as good. Like, you can look at the year Nathan McKinnon was drafted too. Like, there's so many players you could look at that can go first overall in a couple of years. And it's all about, you know, figuring out who is the most skilled player of the draft. And then figuring out how to get the most out of them after that. But like, there are the years that there is that generational talent. And even McDavid to Eichel, there was a gap between one and two.

Eichel is someone who could go first overall in almost any year and there's that gap. Or, you know, Matthews to Linae was a discussion as well. like those generational players definitely are spoiling us and then they set the bar way too high for everybody else. I agree. And you know, I like I had a friend texted me last night who he kind of said, hey, you know, how important is this is this lottery? Is this a guy who, you know, you want a tank for? Well, have you heard the word tank at all this year? No, Shane Wright's a good hockey player. I've covered some Kingston games. I've watched him. He's a very, very good hockey player and probably deserving number one. Is he going to turn the Montreal Canaanians around tomorrow?

absolutely not. So you're right. It's just kind of luck of the draw. You could have the first overall pick five years in row, but if the sixth year is Connor McDavid and you're not with that spot, you're kind of screwed. This is the time of year where coaches get fired in every single sport. As soon as you go into the playoffs, the teams that didn't go, didn't make the playoffs. A lot of times coaches are getting the pink slip. I have to admit this one surprise me because a certain coach in his four years with the team won the Jack Adams. Final four loss of the eventual champions, Final Four loss, the eventual champions, and then had a really weird year this year where 13 game road trip to start the year and played 50 games in 99 days.

But Barry Trots fired by the New York Islanders, scale of 1 to 10. How surprised were you on this one, Shana? I'm surprised that Lou Lamarillo actually did it more than anything else because he is not the general manager to make such a splash. He, I have a low opinion of Lou Lamarillo. like I always have. I think that he, you know, gets a lot of credit because of his longevity in the league versus, you know, what has he actually done?

And you can look at things in Toronto and now you can look at things with the Islanders. His best move was hiring Barry Trots because that was his team that was desperate for defense. And he brought the structure that they needed. He brought in one year. In one, he turned around in one year. Yes. And I think the first year of a coaching change can be the best because you're taking the offensive skill that we know this team had.

They had all the offense. and now he added this defensive structure. It's the perfect blend of systems. Now you bring in Mitch Corrin, you're going to have someone who's going to turn your goaltenders around. He's director of goaltending, not just the goalie coach, you know, like he has been with other teams. So they have a, you know,

where they built up a staff for that. All of that was the best moves that he could make as general manager. And then you look at the roster that he built. And at times, you know, how he worked with the roster Garth Snow built, I should say. You know, there are a lot of missteps and a lot of emphasis on bottom six players and cap situations they shouldn't have been in. So do I fault Barry Trots for the fact that, Lou Lamarillo, traded Devon Taveson. Taves around for nothing. Did not replace him. Got rid of

Nick Letty, two puck movers out, did not replace him. Lost Jordan Eberle for nothing when he was, you know, a bona fide top six player, did not replace him. No. But do I look at the point, you know, you get to a point four years in, and you go, Barzell should be better. Vileet should be better. These players have the offensive talent and they're not using it. And players like Oliver Wallstrom aren't developing like they should when you look at Washington and you look at Andre Borekowski and Jacob Verona, you go, it is a bit of a trend here. I think Trots comes in. He does his thing.

And then the cycle goes that now the team needs an offensive coach. So it's intriguing that he actually made the move. It was a little bit aggressive. But I see the argument for it. But the team that he worked with should have been better. To me, Trots is one of, if not the best coach in the league. To me, it's like top three. I don't think there's any way Barry Trots is not one of the top three coaches in the league.

but he keeps finding himself in the unemployment line. Like what is going on? Maybe maybe there's something, maybe, maybe Barry's difficult to deal with. I was going to say, is there something more that we're just, we're not privy to because Washington didn't want to extend him

until the cup final run. And then they're like, okay, we'll extend you. And he's like, no, screw you. Like clearly there was a,

the weird contracting. But that's the thing with that capital's team. That was the most unspectacular capitals team of like, you know, the few years. all season they went for the quality over quantity approach. It burned them. They made it to the playoffs. And then come the playoffs, they did flip a switch. There were reasons to pinpoint things that went wrong there. There were six on five situations. And they had, if I remember correctly,

it was Alex Hovecgen back at the point and John Carlson in the circle. And it's like, why are you doing that? Why are you not putting Alexovetching, your best shooter where he should be? Like there were tactical decisions and developmental decisions that you went, huh. Like, I can see the argument for not keeping him. And to an He came in. He did his thing. He helped the team. He got them where they needed to be. Now it's time for someone else to take the reins. And Barrett Trots can go to another team that's desperate for defense like Winnipeg and do his thing again. It just feels like we need to find, we need more on coaching impacts. We need to be able to study coaching impacts a little bit deeper and really look at that crossover year where it's a new coach bringing in their system and mixing with the old before their system takes hold as much as it does that it really wipes out what was there before, which in the Islander's case was offense. Yeah. If the Florida Panthers don't win, two of the next three games. How long until Barry Trots has announced the Florida Panthers coach? That's intriguing.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Winnipeg, as soon as I saw the news after I was like, oh, wow, Winnipeg to me was just, that just reeks of a Barry Trots higher to me. But, okay, let's talk about possible replacements. I was reading Kevin Kerr's piece where he had eight different coaches. I'm going to just list them.

You tell me right now, if you were a gambling man or a woman, who are you putting your money on? Is it Mike Babcock? is Elaine Lambert, of course, his right-hand man in New York. Peter DeBore, Rick Tocket, Joel Quinville, Claude Julianne, Paul Marisse, or the one and only John Tortorella, or someone off the board. Who you put your money on? Jesse, we'll start with you. Who am I hiring? Who do you think will be the next coach of the New York Islanders?

Oh, okay. I'm putting you on the spot. I really don't know. I mean, I don't think it's going to be Babcock or Tortorella. Like maybe I'm wrong. Lou seems, I mean, Lou might go that route. I don't think he's going to go that route. I think it's going to be someone new. I think it's going to be someone a little more fresh. Like, like Shane was saying, I think there is something, there is, there is a point there to be made that Trots is very good with maybe taking a veteran team and making them good, but he's maybe not as good as developing the offensive talent. And I think someone fresh would be the better option. So I'm going to not give you an answer. But I don't think it's, I don't. I don't. I don't think it's going to go to Tororella Babcock route. I really don't. Okay, I have a question. In what economy is Lula Amarillo fresh? That's true. I'm saying what I think they need to do and maybe not what they will do. Well, we could list many things they need to do, but I mean, we have to be realistic. Here's the thing.

I listed two coaches there that he has experience with, that he fired, right? So, yes, I agree. And hired. I guess, yeah. I'm a glass half empty type guy. Your glass half took full for sure. No, no, no. No. All right. Good. No, so I would look at it. There's two coaches that stand out to me. You could look at it as Lane Lambert, because why not give him the head coaching spot? Because every other team in the league is going to want to. Does Lang Lambert want it after they just fired Trots, who he has worked within Nashville, Washington and with the Islanders, though? That's the question. Like, is he the kind of guy who's going to go, screw you? I'm going to go somewhere else. Because Detroit's probably there with arms wide open, like, let's go, I'll hire you. So I think Lane Lambert might be a top choice, but it depends on what Lane Lambert. Burt wants to do. The one that I would say is Peter DeBore because of his experience with Lou Lamarillo. Why is his name included in this? You threw me off, Rob threw me off. I seriously was like, I didn't even know what the question was by the time you get to the end of it because I'm like, wait a minute, he just named all these coaches. I told you, told you. Kevin Kurz's piece. He said, here are eight guys that could be replacements for Barry Trots. And I just stole it from there because

I wanted to get your opinion. And I know he's technically still under, he's still on the coach of another He gets fired. If he gets fired, I could... You're already firing Florida coaches, too, so why can't I fire fire coaches? No, I could definitely see if Pete DeVorello's available, though, because if you look at Lou Amarillo's track record, and let's just focus on the Islanders. Comoroff, he worked with in Toronto. He signed him.

Matt Martin, he had brought to Toronto. He brought him back to the Islanders. Zajak, Andy Green, Kyle Palmeri, Zach Perise. Lou Lamarillo has his bubble of people he knows, and those are the people he interacts with. Barry Trots was such a shock because he went out of the box. So maybe it's only players he does that with and not coaches. But I don't know. If Pete DeBore is available, I can't see him not wanting him.

He had him for so many years in New Jersey and so many years past what he should have in New Jersey. So could he give him another shot after, you know, everything with Vegas? Like, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me. But if Lou LaMerella does something innovative, I would love to be the first person to be wrong. I don't, I feel like Pete DeBore. He's a great coach.

But I don't, I think he's the wrong. fit for like everything you mentioned about developing young players getting offense. Pete DeBoer is not the guy to get offense out of offensive players. Trust me, I am covering a team that is stacked, just like ridiculously embarrassing amount of talent offensively, and they can not score a goal. They cannot score a goal. So is Pete DeBoer going to unlock the offense in New York? I'm going to say an absolute no on that one. So I mean, I don't know. But he has a relationship there. And that's at the end of the day, like, that's what I, again, very pessimistic with Lomero. I, like, maybe it's my bias coming through.

I just don't see him going outside the box. And I do wonder, too, with Lane Lambert, is he the coach to do it when he's worked with penalty kills and, you know, adding defensive efforts to forward's game? Like, is he then the offensive coach? But if he's the hot commodity and we all know he is, I would love to see an out of the box pick. And that does not mean Mike Babcock because he's been out of the game for a minute. that is absolutely not the pick to go with.

But if any general manager is not going to care about that stuff, it would probably be Lula and Marlowe. The Wednesday roundtable edition where we fire coaches before they've been fired and hire them and give them jobs elsewhere before they've lost their jobs. Shana, it's always fun talking. Thanks so much for doing this. We'll talk to you soon. Enjoy the playoffs.

Thanks for having me. All right, big thanks to Shana for coming on. Rapid Firetime, though, Jesse thinks we didn't necessarily have time. to get to earlier on in the show. We are seeing award nominees coming out so far. We've got the Vezna. We've got the Norris and we've got the Calder. For the Vesna, Jacob Markstrom, U.C. Sarros, and Igor Shisterkin, the Norris. You got Victor Hedman. You got Roman Yossi and Kail McCar and the Calder coming out today. Michael Bunting of the Leafs, Merritt Sider from Detroit and Trevor Zegras. Anything jump out to you as surprising whether someone, you're

surprised someone is one of the final three finalists or surprised that someone got left out? No, not really, to be honest. I got to kind of be careful because I vote on the Calder and the Norris and I'm not supposed to let anyone know what I voted. Wait a minute, you're not allowed to tell people who you're voting for? I don't think we're supposed to reveal our ballots. But I will say that, like, to me, like Calder, that's exactly what I expect. It's eager spunting insider.

Um, Vezina, I do not vote on, so we can talk about that. And, um, but Chesterkin, Markstrom and Soros, like, I thought Vasilevsky would be in there, but maybe there's some fatigue. Maybe there's some, this guy can't win it every year. Like, he didn't have his best season. So let's throw like a Markstrom in there. I was happy to see Soros in there because I was a big Saros supporter this year. Like, I, like, I, like, I think he played even better than his numbers were when you watch Nashville games. Like, I think he's a guy who put his team on his back. Um, And I was worried that maybe a, like a Freddie Anderson, who to me is maybe not as good as Soros, but has better numbers because he plays behind a team that's as good as Carolina is.

I thought maybe a guy like Soros would get left off for a guy with better numbers on a better team. So I was happy when I saw Soros's name pop up as a guy who kind of just like focuses on the goalies. I think he's an underappreciated guy. So it's cool to see him. I'm going to reveal something in my notes. I said, I was going to just say, how's Freddie Anderson not in the final three finalist just to get you riled up? This is because I know your Carolina theory. If you're a Carolina hurricane's goal tender, you got it better than anybody else.

Right. And it's not just Carolina. Like Colorado is another great example. Like Darcy Kemper's stats were great this year. But also, Philip Gruevauer was a finalist for the Vesna last year. And then he went to a team that's not stacked and was the worst goalie in the history of the sport of hockey. That's a little harsh. But Grubauer did.

He did let in like 28 goals above expected or something, some ridiculous number that doesn't even seem possible. So I'm always a big, let's not just give the goalies with the best save percentage, the Vezina. Damn it. Like, let's watch these guys play and realize that some of them are better than others. And to me, Soros is the perfect example of that. And I'm glad he got on. Isn't that why you guys vote? Isn't that why they let you guys, because you're watching the games, right?

And unfortunately, sometimes I like hearing reporters say, and I know this is rapid fire. Our producer, guest, probably like, guys, move on. but I like hearing a reporter say I did some research and not just you know let me take a look at who's got the best safer I like hearing them watching games that maybe they're not necessarily accustomed to watching and talking to other people so we'll have to see.

Rapid fire item number two. Darnell Nurse can have a hearing for headbutting to know Philip Deno. Do we see a suspension here? I don't know. It's weird because if it wasn't like a headbutt where you move your head. forward and just smashed it's kind of like a ram would be it looked it looked like he was trying to like you could even argue he was trying to hit him with his shoulder and then just happened to connect

head to head i don't know it was a weird hit i don't know what they're going to rule um what do you no idea because it's you know what's the one thing that we always hear to playoff games are a two for one you know two one playoff games where or sorry like one playoff game is like two regular season games um and i i i said this earlier on this year i think i have to literally retire from trying to find things, trying to figure out a suspension and trying to figure out if it's goalie interference on a review. Because I've been wrong like 150% of the time. Yes, I had an extra 50% there.

One more item. Jason Spetsa, yesterday you saw when the least fell down two to nothing. During a TV timeout, they show him talking to Jack Campbell and calming him down. And then after the game, it was revealed that between the periods, it was Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews who said that he. said that Jason Spetsa made a speech to kind of motivate the guys and when he speaks, you listen. I think I mentioned this about five shows ago.

I wish there was a number, a stat that Dom could come up with that can quantify experience in the room. Because to me, Jason Spetsa, who let's not forget it was a healthy scratch in the series, is a fourth liner, is bringing it in that department for this team. Especially for a team that can be as nervous as. the Leafs. Like there's so much pressure on them because they're so talented and they haven't won. We had Lad on the other last week and he talked about like it's just calming the guys down, right?

Like it's, you don't need him to do, Spezza to get up there and give some Al Pacino any given Sunday speech that like fires everyone up. Like sometimes they just need a guy to be like, hey, like, just play hockey. Like it's it and and it has to come from someone that you respect, right? It can't just be anyone and like obviously he's got that. fight with your fingernails. Great scene. Great scene for that movie. Anything you're working on? You want to plug? What do you got going on this week? Yeah, right now, I'm in the middle of writing it. It should come out probably later today or tomorrow. A who stays and who goes for the Golden Knights. It is a fascinating who stays who goes. I do this every year at the beginning of the

off season. Usually it's just a case of like, okay, which which pending free agents are good, like, which pending free agents are good that they want to keep and which ones are bad that they want to let go. But in the Golden Knights situation, they actually are already over the salary cap for next year with the raised salary cap. They're already over the ceiling and they still have six RFAs and two UFAs. This team may not be able to afford to just tender their restricted free agents. It's an insane situation here in Vegas. So I'm writing a crazier than usual edition of who stays who goes in Vegas this off-season. Should I stay or should I go? You should name that. that that should be the name of your piece. And number two, is Pete DeBore on that list? Because we've obviously

want him to be on this. We still don't know. It's insane. We still don't know what they're doing. Like, we asked him on media cleanout day. He made it sound like he has no idea if he's coming back or not. Like he had no certainty in his voice that he, if he's the coach or not. He's under contract for one more year. I think they may be perusing the market to see if there's an upgrade out there. And if there's not, then Pete comes back. I honestly don't know what they're doing. It's crazy. And that's why he's on everyone's possibly going to be in the Newark Islanders head coach. Jesse, thanks. We look forward to seeing that.

And I will talk to you next week. I want to let everybody know, give us a follow on your favorite podcast platform. And when you do leave a rating and a review, it helps us out a lot. And you can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all the bonus content from the entire network. You start with the 30-day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. Right now, you get an annual subscription to the Athletic for just a dollar. a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.

We will be back next week with myself, Jesse, and I think Sarah should be back. We'll talk to you next week.