The Athletic Hockey Show - Tortorella out as Flyers head coach

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

The Athletic’s own Shayna Goldman and Kevin Kurz give their instant reaction to the Philadelphia Flyers relieving John Tortorella of his head coaching duties Thursday morning and discuss what’s next for the franchise and the veteran coach.Host: Shayna GoldmanWith: Kevin KurzExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hi, welcome to a breaking news episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, presented by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. I'm Shanea Goldman along with Kevin Curds, and we have some breaking news. Do you want to kick it off? Yeah, it was a little bit unexpected with John Tortorella getting fired this morning.

I was on my way to cover a normal morning skate when it came through and had to turn around because, you know, I don't, I don't think this would have been a complete shock if it's as it happened at the end of the season. But happening now with just nine games left, what was a little bit surprising? You know, I don't think, you know, I think Tortorella wanted to stick around and see this through.

I mean, it was just probably a week or two ago. He was kind of snapping back at a reporter who was suggesting that, you know, his tenure might last, might not last beyond next season. He was signed for another season in his, contract. But, you know, he's out and Brad Shaw takes over. Yeah. So there's only nine games left this season. And obviously this comes after his comments the other night. This falls on me. I'm not really interested in learning how to coach this type, in this type of season where we're at right now. But I have to do a better job. So this falls on me getting the team prepared to

play the proper way until we get to the end. We spoke about them yesterday. on the Athletic Hockey Show, and I kind of thought they could have gone three ways in him saying, I don't like this job anymore, which, bestie, we all understand. It's not like you're in the best situation. It could have been him saying, I don't know how to coach these games because I never had to. I don't want to learn, but I'm going to have to, right? Because that's the reality of it. Nobody wants to coach through a losing season.

And at this point, that's what it is. And it could have been perceived, too, as like the way the team is built, right? like this is tough with this team the way it's built and then that's another like wormhole to go down I didn't think it was necessarily saying I don't want this job anymore it's just saying nobody wants to have to coach this party at least last year no one thought the flyers were going to be good they surprised and then they were they played meaningful games down the stretch still so like how did you interpret that yeah I you know I certainly didn't interpret it as I don't want to coach this team anymore I'm fed up with this I'm ready to go home I think

think, you know, if you look at the complete day and some of the comments he said he made on Tuesday morning, I think he was just trying to take the heat off the players. I think he really understood that number one, the roster has been depleted because of the trades that they made before the deadline, and it wasn't that skilled of a roster in the first place. When you remove three top nine forwards from a team that wasn't that skilled anyway, this is what you're going to get. And that's Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, and Scott Lawton were all dealt. in the last six weeks or so. So that's number one.

And number two, there was the emotional aspect of it. You know, they put such an importance on culture for the long, they've talked about it on end for the last two years, especially. And they trade Lawton, who was the most popular guy in that dressing room. He really was the emotional heartbeat of the team. And even Eric Johnson, who wasn't here for very long, he was a guy that everyone grew to respect and just enjoyed his presence and having him around. So when you lose all of those guys, I think it took a toll on them on the ice and off the ice.

And I think that's something that John Tortorella understood. So, you know, clearly, I think they could have been better in the last two games when you give up 14 goals of the Blackhawks and then the Maple Leafs and back-to-back games or something wrong on the ice. And I'm sure everyone understands that. But, you know, I didn't, I wouldn't have take that, I didn't take that quote literally as him saying, I'm not interested in coaching this team anymore. I think he was just frustrated with where they are.

I think he really thought that this team and this group could make a run maybe before the deadline. And they did win some games, even late in February after the Frost and Barabee trades before they really dropped off following the Lawton trade. I think he was frustrated for sure, but I certainly don't think he was saying, you know, I want to get ready to go home and pack up my office. I've had it with these guys. Yeah. And, you know, right off the bat, you mentioned how he's putting the attention on himself. That was a game in Toronto. Of all media markets, if you want to take the attention away.

So now we're talking about John Tortorella and not as much about Cam York being scratched. And while, you know, people are bringing that up in defense or, you know, to give Tororella a problem, be like, but you did this. It's still, it's what he's always done. It's a classic torts move of putting the attention on himself so the players don't have to face as much heat after a second consecutive awful game in that market. of all places. So reading that Breer, quote, there was one line that kind of stood out to me that I don't think I would have thought twice about

at the end of the season, but now I am. And it's, as we move into the next chapter of this rebuild, I felt this was the best for our team to move forward. And I'd like to thank John for his tireless work and commitment to the flyers. So you needed to move forward now. Like, how many fundamentals do you think you're going to put into place now?

And obviously, Bradshaw, it's a different vibe because when you're an associate and our assistant coach, you have a different relationship with the players, but it's also, this is someone from the school of Tortorella, that you're saying, but you can finish the season. Like, do you read anything into that? Well, I would say that I think that, and it sounds odd to say right now, because they've lost 10 out of 11 and they look absolutely terrible right now,

the timeline to add players to me has moved up a little bit. And I don't think there's any question that the front office is going to try to add this offseason, whether that's, you know, a big trade that Breyer makes to try. to grab a center because this team, the center depth on this team is probably the worst in the league right now, that's a glaring need. They're going to have to find somebody to play center next year. You know, I mean, heck, maybe it's maybe they win the draft lottery and it's, you know, one of those guys. But I think the time is, you know, the goaltending, they definitely have to fix. What's the old phrase, right? Show me a good head coach. I'll show you a team that

has a high safe percentage. The Flyers have had the worst safe percentage in each of the last two years now, right? So the goaltending, I don't put on Tortorella at all. But getting back to the original point, I think they're going to try to make some moves in this off season to improve going into next season. You know, maybe they just viewed Tortorella as the guy that was the one they wanted to sort of set the standard, right? That's something they talk about here all the time, set the standard of working hard, of accountability and all those buzzwords we often hear. And in a lot of respects, a lot of the young players did take steps under him. But, you know, maybe they just feel like the last few weeks it's sort of gotten stale

and everyone's just kind of had their fill of them. Yeah. Anytime a coach is fired, the first thing you need to look at is the goal tending because save percentages always dictate coaching changes. It always goes like that. I did the quick map on, I think the average coaching tenure with Tororella's ending today is down to 2.3, which is the lowest in all the major leagues by a good amount. It's just the way it is in hockey.

It's, you know, the coaching carousel, we all say, but it really is true. And I think people forget to. And hockey, it does feel like that's one of the first things to change, right? Like, a coach might be the right coach at the time. And there were questions if Tororella was the right coach at the time when he was hired because he's not your typical rebuilding coach. And they might not be anymore. And maybe the objectives change.

Maybe it just isn't a match anymore. And I think you could still say it's fair. do you think it necessarily means his tenure was a failure? Because for me, I'm looking at it. Like, I think of all the recycled coaches, he impresses me out of most of them because I think he does evolve. As stubborn and tortsy and as he still is, there's a lot of evolution behind that. You know, does it make his coaching tenure a failure necessarily? Or was this the fundamental step they needed? And now someone can take him the next step. Yeah, it's too early to say for me. You know, I think we need to see how some of these young players progressed throughout their careers.

You know, it always struck me that a guy like Rasmus Ristelainen, who is, I think he's 30 years old now. You know, he was in his late 20s and he used to say, I wish I had a coach like Tortorella earlier in my career. And he's a guy that's really improved so much so that they didn't want to trade him at the deadline. They wanted to hold on to him because they think he's such a valuable piece now. And he has been playing well. He has been maybe their best defenseman. I know he's out right now, but for a stretch there, for a good two or three months, you can make the case he was their best defensemen. So, you know, we have to see how guys like Cam York progress, Tyson Forster, Noah Cates, Jamie Driesdale.

You know, a lot of these guys did take steps. Owen Tippett, they did take steps under Tertorella. So I don't think Breyer's just blowing smoke there when he says that Torderella sort of, you know, help to establish something here. It's just, you know, it's going to be up to Brieare now to make some moves and find some more pieces. It'll be interesting to see where they go with the next coach. I think Rick Tockett's a name you're going to hear about. I think pretty frequently we'll see what happens there in Vancouver because I know there's some uncertainty there whether he's going to stick around or whether he's going to want to

stick around. Tuckett and Keith Jones are very close friends. That's something that they could have a discussion about. But in terms of Tortorella's tenure here, you know, I certainly wouldn't call it a failure because the team did overachieve last year and they did generally remain competitive this year despite an obvious talent gap between them and the other clubs. But, you know, it has fallen apart here lately. And Torderella made some mistakes last year, too.

You know, the team was in a playoff spot for most of the season through early March. He made some mistakes late in the season that I think, you know, got some of the guys upset about him, scratching Sean Cotorier calling the team soft at one point after they fought back to get a point in the standing. So there were some mistakes that he made last season, too. that I think Breyer probably took into account when he made this decision because maybe he was seeing some of those same things repeat themselves. Yeah, I think the interesting part is what direction they're going to go now. And, you know, Tocke is an interesting name because that's your veteran coach.

That's your vibe coach, not so much your ex is an O's guy. And it's like, okay, do you go for that again? Do you look for something else? Do you take a different route? Because you see the successes of teams like the Capitol is going for Carberry, who, you know, developed in the HL essentially or going the college route, which sometimes we see, for those rebuilding teams taking the next step, like, here's a coach that'll grow with the team. Like, do you think that there's a certain direction they're going to go now?

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, in terms of the X's and O's, that's. That's why they certainly want to keep Bradshaw, because Bradshaw really is that X's and O's guy on defense. And I think they really do, they really do want to keep him around just because he, a lot of these younger defensemen and even the mid, mid, mid-age defensemen, guys like Travis Sandheim, improved under Bradshaw. Jamie Drysdale, like I said, has really, taking steps here over the last few months. Cam York was had a good second half last year. I know

his consistency has maybe been a little bit off this year. So I think they keep him around. I was a little surprised that they didn't also relieve Rocky Thompson of his job today too because he's in charge of the power play. Well, the power play was last in the league in 2022, 23, last in the league last year. Currently it's 30th and they haven't scored a single power play goal in March. They're 0 for 31. And it's, what is it, March 27th. So I'm a little surprised they retain Rocky Thompson. I can't imagine they're going to keep him around next year either just because of the way the power play is gone. It should be better this year with guys like Mitch Koff, especially in the mix. So, yeah, that's hard to say. I'm sure they'll be methodical with this and their approach,

but I do, you know, Rick Talkett's the name that I think we're going to keep hearing, we're going to hear pretty often here moving forward as a possibility, especially. if he doesn't go back to the Canucks. Yeah, Bradshaw is such an intriguing name to me because to me, like that is your elite, elite, elite assistant or associate coach. Like he was great with Columbus. He was great with Philly. He's such a good match with Torrella.

And it's like, do they reunite somewhere else after this? Does he, you know, forge his own path? Does he get a look? I'd be really interested. What do we think is next for Torts? Because I know some will look at this and go, well, is he done? He's coached for so many teams.

And sometimes I'm the first one to, you know, yell about it, we need to stop looking at these recycled coaches. And to me, he's different because I, you know, I think that he has his same cornerstones and fundamentals, but there are so many things you hear from him that are so refreshing that you would think was coming from this like up and coming coach, some of his philosophies and how they've shifted and how he's taken steps back to learn and do better. So for me, like I would like to see him get another go, but I don't think it's for a rebuilding team. You know, that was a one-time experiment. I think he's an ideal coach for a team that was kind of in a similar position to Columbus,

like they're on the cusp where they need that final push. And I think about the Sabres, honestly, as a team. And I know they just hired Lindy Ruff last year. But that that's not going well, yeah. Yeah, someone that, you know, can they turn the next corner? Can they take the next steps? I think the Bruins might have set themselves a little further back in that timeline to be a perfect fit for Tortorella.

But who's to say, like, do you think he's done? Do you think someone else will take a look at him? Well, I mean, I remember when he got hired, he basically said that this was it. This was his last stop as a coach. But, you know, covering him these last few weeks, certainly I didn't, I didn't, other than maybe what he said on Tuesday night in Toronto, I didn't sense a guy that was, you know, looking forward to collecting Social Security. You know, I think he was really, really invested in this team. You know, like I said, he said over and over again, he wanted to come back next year for the fourth year of his deal.

it'll be interesting. Guys like that, they're so competitive, it's so just ingrained in their nature. You wonder, can they really truly hang it up? It'll be interesting to see. I thought there was a pretty good possibility that Flyers would keep him around and put him in the front office somehow because I think his voice did carry more weight

than a head coach's typically does in terms of the communication with the front office. You know, you look at the guys that the Flyers got rid of, Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee. I mean, those guys, we knew that they were often in Torts' doghouse. So, you know, Kevin Hayes, Ivan Proberoff, Tony DeAngelo going back the year before. So, you know, I think Danny Breyer and Keith Jones, a lot of the moves they made were were greatly influenced by what Torello was telling them. And again, I think it was there was more influence there than it is just in the standard

relationship between a head coach and a general manager. So, you know, we'll see. hopefully we get a chance to talk to torts. I'll see if he responds to my text messages, but I'm not sure. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here or if he just sticks to what he said a couple years ago that this was going to be it for him.

Yeah, it'll be really interesting to see. Thanks for jumping on with us on a busy day. And thanks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Max and Laz, we'll have the next episode on Monday, and we'll talk to you then.