The Athletic Hockey Show - Total eclipse of the Hart: who should be NHL MVP?

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Ian and Laz are joined at the top of the show by the one and only Down Goes Brown, Sean McIndoe, to discuss the hockey equivalent of a total eclipse, the Rangers and Leafs Stanley Cup droughts, the ideal first round opponent for the Rangers if they got to pick, what a potential Leafs-Panthers playoff matchup looks like, and a little This Week in Hockey History.Plus, the guys talk about yet another Ottawa Senators empty net controversy, the Stars’ 7-4 statement win over the Avs, the Brock Faber-Connor Bedard Calder Trophy debate, best bets for the President’s Trophy and Hart Trophy winners, and more.Subscribe to The Athletic: http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez and Mark Lazarus with you to kick off your week in hockey. And last, we got our pal, Sean McIndoo, down goes brown with us, to open up the show. And I got to say, guys, I got to say, if they were doing a father of the year award amongst the three of us, I'm coming in last place because I am with a couple of guys right now who have taken their kids on an hour or 90 minute drive to get into the path of totality for the eclipse, and I'm just sitting at home in Ottawa.

I'm not winning father of the year here, guys. So you just get the next one in 300 years, man. It'll be fine. Yeah, we were talking before that we came on the air here, and you're like, oh, I got 99%. That'll be good enough. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It's that last 1% where this black marble in the sky starts glit.

listening and glowing. That makes all the difference. We were so lucky to be able to do this. We drove south of St. Louis in 2017, but the kids were really young. They didn't really remember it. So two and a half hours south, we're in some random industrial park in Whitesown, Indiana.

And we're just going to spend all day here and hope the clouds stay away. Dude, that whole thing, like, the kids don't appreciate it. You think 99% is good enough, but it has to be. Like, were you getting John Tortorella vibes from Mark just now. Yes, 100%. Wow.

It's got the beard. Safe as death. Yeah. That's it. My God. Man. So anyway, so, and Sean,

how far did you drive? An hour out of Ottawa? It was a, an hour and a half. Yep. Yep. We're down in Hicturus,

Gannonowkway, Ontario, a place I've never been, but it's lovely. Hey, I've golfed there a couple of times. Great. Thousand Islands.

It's a beautiful, beautiful spot. Yeah. Right on, Yeah, okay. Well, listen, we're going to use that as a theme here to kick off the Monday pod. Because we've got a total, total eclipse, solar eclipse happening. And I want to know, guys, what's the NHL, the hockey equivalent of the solar eclipse? Like the thing that only happens every X number of years.

Like I said, is it the Buffalo Sabres, making the playoffs? Is that the NHL? Is that the solar eclipse of the NHL? Sabers. I feel like you know damn well what it is. Feeling ambushed by the fact that you guys are asking the Leaf fan this question. Get out of here. What's something that only happens every 50 years, guys? Yeah.

Anyone got any ideas? Yeah. Well, to spare Sean the indignity of the obvious answer here, how about a Ranger's Stanley Cup won every 84 years? It's basically Haley's comet. Yep. And when it does happen, everybody makes a huge deal and doesn't shut up about it for decades.

afterwards. Oh, man. Does it bother you as a Leafs fan, how nobody focuses on the fact that the Rangers have won one Stanley Cup in 84 years? Like, that's worse than having not won the Stanley Cup since 1967, isn't it? Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

Please clip that and use that as... Ian, don't... Mark and I are speaking right now, okay? It's absolutely worse, and I thank Mark for bringing it up. Yeah. I mean, how many of those years were there only six teams in the NHL? There were only five other teams in the NHL for like 30 of those years. I just want to say that Stanley Cups, when there are only six teams, still count.

They're absolutely valid. Yeah. We're not, yeah. Okay. Well, we'll ask our listeners. Ask our listeners, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. What's the worst drought? Rangers 1 in 84?

Toronto, nothing since 67. Or are they the same thing? I kind of feel like the, like, I think people will remember the Rangers 94-1, and so that makes it a little better, no? But I think Lash just hates the Rangers from his childhood, and it's coming out here. Well, let's not forget.

The Leaf's drought now is longer than the Rangers' drought was when we just chanted 1940 all day long. That was a 54-year drought. And the Leaves are, what, at 57 now if they don't win this year? which they won't, obviously. We're aware, Mark. Thank you. Yeah. And by the way, how is it that, you know, back in the day,

like I remember Islanders fans would chant 1940, right? Like, that was a big thing. Why is no other fan base ever chanted 67? Is it because, and I'm going to say this, and it's not meant to be a joke. Is it because Toronto fans in certain cities, Ottawa being a great example, they take over the barn.

I'm pretty sure the three senators fans who make it out to those games are chanting nice and loud. I don't know. I mean, you don't hear the chant. 1967 is too many syllables is, I think, the main thing. But I will say, it's not like other fan bases don't bring it up. You know, this is not exactly unmind territory for other fan bases. We hear it every now and then, once or twice. A second from all of you.

Yeah, all the time. So I'll tell you what, let's chat a little bit about like the Rangers. We're just talking about the Rangers and the drought. And I mean, if they win the president. I mean, they've got a shot to win the President's trophy, right? And I think if you look at the, uh, the playoff race in the East, if you're the Rangers, guys, and we talked about how the idea of handpicking your opponent, right?

Like, wouldn't it be great if you could pick your opponent? Like if you're the Rangers and you look at all the possible teams and the Islanders are part of it, the Penguins are part of it, the Red Wings, the Flyers, the Capitals, if you could hand pick your round one opponent, who are you taking? Because I'd love for the Flyers to find a way in if I'm the Rangers. Yeah. I think you want to play, what you want is you want to have the top seed and you want to play whoever gets that second wild card, which will all.

also be the second of the two spots because the third place is play. I mean, it's going to be like an 85, 87 point team. And it's potentially going to be a team that backs in, you know, that the other team's potentially going to be at least a little, a little hotter going in. I think that I think you just sit back and you wait for whoever backs into that spot. What's going to be fascinating, this won't come into play if the Rangers finish first in the east. But let's say they get passed by Boston. Then you've got a situation where, the Rangers are going to win potentially the Metro

finish first in the Metro and have to play the Tampa Bay Lightning. And meanwhile, the Carolina Hurricanes come in second and they're going to get on paper a much easier matchup with Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington, whoever it is. Boy, you think people complain about the playoff format now. Wait until that Ranger fan base

figures out what could be waiting for him. A Tampa Bay team that the whole year has just been sitting there going, okay, just let us know when we need to put our foot on the gas for a couple of games. And, you know, other than that, they just, they're taking it easy. Boy, that, that you may, you might hear some push for the pick your own playoff opponent if something like that happens because the Rangers are going to get potentially, potentially screwed a little bit here.

Well, let's not underestimate the North Carolina state factor here. Remember, NC State in the tournament this year, they went out of, they won five games in five days to win their conference tournament to even get in the tournament. And then they went all the way to the final four because they just, they were in playoff mode for longer than their opponents were, right? They didn't have to flip any switch because they were already there. So there is something to be said. If you look at the Islanders right now, more likely Pittsburgh, those kind of teams that

are all of a sudden getting hot and are really starting to believe in themselves, if they get into the playoffs, even with 85, 87 points, they're going to be feeling awfully good going into that postseason. I'm not sure there is an easy matchout. I mean, certainly Philadelphia, Washington, even Detroit, given the goaltending situation. I mean, we saw what happened to Alex Lyon. He kind of turned into a pumpkin last year after getting the Panthers. into the playoffs. I think those teams are a little less scary than a team with Ilya

Seroquin or just a team with Sidney Crosby and Hugenny Malkin. But I'm not sure there is an easy matchup here because teams that have to fight and scratch and claw to get into the playoffs, they're kind of already in that mode and I think that helps. Yeah. And I mean, it's it's the parodyer of the NHL. If we didn't learn it last year, if we didn't learn it with Columbus and Tampa, like there's no easy matchups. This isn't like when when Laz was a kid cheering on the Islanders or they'd play a team in the first round, They had 90 more points than, you know, none of the players on that other team even knew how to hold their sticks correctly. They're skating around with their skate guards still on and Mike Bossy scored four goals a game.

There's none of that. It's every matchup's tough. You know, we do all this stuff and then it's going to be somebody's goal. He's going to get hot for four rounds and that'll be the story of the playoffs. So we're talking about playoff droughts there with the Sabres. and look, Detroit on the weekend, vaulted themselves back into a playoff spot. They kind of basically based on the schedule, will control their own destiny here, guys.

Down the stretch, they got five games left, they got Washington, they got Pittsburgh, like basically if Detroit can win out or probably even go four and one, they're going to make the playoffs. And here's my question for you guys. Given the fact that they got the second longest drought in the league, Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs since 2011. That's the longest.

But Detroit hasn't made the playoffs since 2016, guys. Like, that's a seven-year drought. And it could be eight if they miss again. Shouldn't we all, like, should we all be kind of pulling for Detroit a little bit? Like, this isn't the Detroit team of 10 or 15 years ago that we got tired of. Like, should we as collectively as hockey fans? Should we not be kind of pulling for Detroit here in this race?

I mean, you're talking to a guy who works in Chicago here, so I've got to be very careful what I say. But yeah, the league is better when the Red Wings are irrelevant, right? I mean, they're just one of those franchises where it elevates the product, so to speak, to have the Detroit Red Wings in the mix. And, you know, I'd love to see Patrick Kane in the playoffs. And during that, he had a brief time with the Rangers last year and against the Devils. He had that one game where he just looked like, you know,

2013-era Patrick King, where he just took over. And it's fun to see great players on big moments in the biggest stages play like that. So I think, yeah, I think a lot of people would love to see. I mean, everyone's a Sabres fan, right? Everybody wants to see Buffalo rewarded. But Buffalo is not getting in. So I think Detroit's that kind of next team where it's like, you know, I'd feel good for their fans.

We know what great fan base they have there. It's good for the league. I might not ever be allowed to set foot in Chicago again after saying this, but I really do think that Detroit is, nobody wants to see the Islanders in the playoffs again. Nobody, everyone kind of is done with the Penguins era, I think, in a lot of ways. Detroit's the team that I think everybody can sort of get behind right now. Yeah, yes and no.

I mean, with Buffalo, it's not just the playoff drought. It's the whole history, right? It's the fact that 50 plus years have never won a Stanley Cup. You could make a really good argument that the closest they came in 99 that they got robbed by a bad call or a non-call on the skate in the crease. Whereas Detroit, we got the drive now. Yeah, it doesn't get brought up. very much, but Sabres fans will mention it occasionally. Detroit, I mean, most Red Wing fans have seen four Stanley Cups in their lifetime.

You know, even unless they're real young, they've at least seen one or two. I don't think you get the same level of empathy that you get that you get elsewhere. Sabres are just one of those teams. It's been so rotten for so long. And, you know, I don't think you're going to, I feel like the Red Wings might pick up some of that sympathy. but it's going to be, it's going to feel shallow compared to what it would be eventually when the sabres get in there. We potentially have two, like we're really close to having two playoff matchups locked in. And one is in the West in Colorado, Winnipeg.

And that's by virtue of Dallas beating the abs on Sunday night. It kind of feels like Dallas is going to win that division. Colorado, Winnipeg, they're on a collision course. And Sean, Toronto, Florida, looks like they're on a collision course. Now, the Panthers, and you wrote about this in your weekly kind of your rankings, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, we're like, man, the Panthers are the team to beat, but they've hit a speedwobble here. So if it goes the way we think and we get Toronto, Florida,

how you feel about that as a Toronto fan? I mean, I think that's a matchup that I think the Panthers will be a slight favorite. That's probably the right way to put it. And then from there, you know, everybody will make their picks. And, you know, a couple of take the Leafs as an upset pig. At least could absolutely win that series. I mean, even you look at the five-game series last year, a couple of overtime games, you know, goaltender got hurt.

And there are some things that went bad there. And I mean, geez, you just, you would hope. And we've said this year after year in the Sheldon Keyfair, but getting a rematch of the team that beat you, boy, you'd hope they'd be ready to go. You hope that we're going to see the Leafs come out of the gate heart. And yet that hasn't happened year after year after year. They can't string two good games to start the playoffs together. They had the one year against Tampa where they got their doors blown off in the first game.

And then the other time they played great in game one, but then game two, it all falls apart. And boy, you just hope that they can come out flying. I mean, if Sheldon Keefe hasn't shown them every highlight of the Panthers celebrating and, you know, every, every highlight of the Panthers winning on the Leafs Home Ice and all of this stuff and all the hits and all the controversy that went with that, then he's not doing his job. And the other thing Shelton Keep better be ready to do

is hold up his fingers on the bench if they get too many penalties because that changed that whole series last time. Paul Maurice, remember holding up his six or seven fingers or whatever it was, and the reps went, oh, okay, I guess we're not going to call anything on the Panthers for the entire rest of the series. So Sheldon Keith better be ready to go. But it's going to be a fun match.

it'll be an interesting one. We talked a few weeks ago about the Panthers being the potentially the villains of the league. Put that on hold, I guess, because I know nobody's getting behind the Leafs jumping on the Leafs bandwagon all that hard. So Panthers get another few weeks of having quite a bit of support before they potentially move on. And maybe we get to rematch with Boston too. That'd be a fun one just as well. Well, I'll tell you what, Sean. when we, you and I used to do the pod here on a regular basis,

we would always do a little this week in hockey history. We want to wrap up your segment this week with a little bit of this week in hockey history. So guys, I got a couple for you here. Actually, this is probably a great, go back to Lazan's childhood, the 93 Islanders, probably one of your favorite years, right? Oh, yeah? Yeah. Oh, my God.

The only time I've ever seen my dad physically jump was when Dave. Volick put that fuck in the net. Yeah, David Volick took out the Pittsburgh Penguins who this week, guys, in 1993, April the 9th, 1993, the Penguins won their 16th game in a row, which set a record for most consecutive wins. They would run that to 17. Here's the crazy thing. I didn't realize when they punched their ticket to win their 16th straight game,

they did so with a 10-4 win over the Rangers. Mario Lemieux, ho-hum, a five-goal. night. Now, Sean, you wrote about this today. And I, this is, are the 93 penguins not the cautionary tale of, you know, who's hot going? Can you imagine a team with Mario Lemieux at the peak of his powers? They won 17 in a row. And they get David Bowling. Yeah. Two time defending cup champs. Yeah. They win 17 a row. Remember, 92, 93. That's the year that they, they lose Mario for two months when he has cancer. So, I mean, you almost throw their record out the win. but their record with him.

They're unbeatable. And yeah, they go in and, uh, oh, oh, here come the Islanders and here comes David Volick. And I mean, even then in the 90s, you never really knew. But back then in the early 90s, like that was an upset. That was a capital U upset. I don't know if we have those anymore. I guess, you know, you look at last year's Panthers and that, at least according to the standings was a big one.

But back then, yeah, there were times where, I mean, you just looked at that and he said, oh, I mean, we're going to get Mario against Patrick Waugh in round three. This is going to be great. Nope. Somebody forgot to let the islanders know. And don't forget, the islanders were without their best player because Pierre Turgeon got Dale Hunter in the previous round against Washington. So that is, I mean, that was the best, you talk to any Penguins fan, and that 92, 93 Penguin team, that's the best team. That's their 85 bears. That's the best team they ever had. So, you know, nobody should feel bad for Penguins fans. They've had it as good as just about anybody over the last, you know, 40 years. But they cannot, if you mention David Volick in that city, you will.

get beaten up. Like, he is a four-letter word, as big a four-letter word in Pittsburgh as any player is in any city in this hockey world. I don't think people realize just how bitter they are about that. It should have been a three-peat. That was the best team and some freaking scrub, one of the worst players in the league that year. And scores two goals in game seven.

If people remember, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that in that game seven, weren't the Islanders ahead like two goals very late in the game and then Pittsburgh came back, you know, tied it up, goalie out maybe and like, I mean, you're sitting there going, oh, few, okay, well, there we go. We got the drama and everything, but now the penguins are going to win in overtime. I remember being at my buddy's house watching that goal go in and just being like, I don't understand what I just saw. The Islanders, a guy I've never even heard of on the Islanders,

just scored the goal and knocked out the penguins. This doesn't make any sense. I'll tell you, I was 13 years old. And look, I've seen four giant Super Bowls. I was six years old when the Mets won the World Series. I had all those great teams in the Knicks in the mid-90s. That game, that win, that was still the best sports moment of my entire, probably my entire life, certainly my childhood. Just the absurdity of it.

You know, the anger I felt about the Pierre Ter. Pierre Terja was my favorite player, and I was so angry. And everything was just, the world was conspiring against the Islanders. and to win that game and to win it in that fashion against that team, it almost didn't matter. I can still hear Jigs McDonald in my head. They're off to Montreal for the conference championship. Like, I lost my mind.

I was 13. It was like the perfect age for a moment like that to stick with you forever. Love it. A couple of other ones here, guys, real quick. This week in hockey history, April 10, 1990, three members of the L.A. Kings had a hat trick in the same playoff game against Calgary. Sean Little Fun trivia. Do you remember which three guys for L.A. had a hat trick in this same game against Calgary?

No, I don't. Also, for some reason, why do I feel like Thomas Sandstrom is one of them? Thomas Sandstrom one. And then you would assume, I mean, Gretzky and Robitai, you would, you would think would be the other two. Are they the? No, that's the crazy thing. So it's, it's Thomas Sandstrom. It's Tony Granato. Okay. Yep. And it's, It's the old man Dave Taylor. Wow. Okay. Wow.

Good old Dave Taylor. Yeah. That's fantastic. And I know we're in this fun era now where offense is kind of back. But try and explain to a teenager or a young fan today. There's a playoff game. We're three guys in the same team at a hat trick. Yeah.

That's, boy, that's some, man. The 80s and early 90s were just a, they were, fun time to be alive as a hockey fan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Real quick. Last one. This week in 1996, the Boston Bruins, thanks to a Sandy Moger, that's a, that's a deep pull there. Sandy Moger scores an overtime goal to give Boston a playoff, uh, uh, overtime win over Hartford. It clinches a 29th consecutive playoff appearance for the Bruins. NHL record. Here's my question for you guys.

And it's funny because the Bruins right now on the longest active streak of playoffs at seven years in a row. I think they're tied with Toronto, right? At seven years, whatever it is, it's seven years in a row. And Pittsburgh obviously got up to, I think it was what, 14, whatever it was.

Do you guys think we would ever, in the salary cap era, I'm going to put the number at 20. Is there a possibility that will ever see a team make the playoffs again for 20 years in a row? No. And it's not even just the cap and the parody. It's a 32 team league now. Unless they expand the playoffs, obviously that would reset the odds. But you got to remember, the Bruins, as great a streak as that was, and it was impressive and, you know, they deserved the credit. Spent a huge chunk of that in a five-team Adams division where they had to beat either the Nordiques or the Whalers. Just pick one of those two teams, finish with a better record to them, and you go to the playoffs. And, you know, for you younger fans out there, beating the Nordiques or the Whalers was not all that difficult most of those years. So, you know, as long as you didn't finish last in your division, you were headed to the postseason.

So I don't think it's, it's nowhere near the same now as today where you get 50% of the league. And that's it to make the playoffs, even 10 straight years as an accomplishment. To get to 15 would be amazing. 20, I just can't imagine it. Ruins, by the way, what, one cup in 52 years? There's a lot of these droughts with these original 16s, you know, other than Detroit and Chicago, it's been a while. It wasn't Montreal. It's been 31 years.

Like, these are, you know, you expand this league and it's a lot harder to win the Stanley Cup. Yeah. But credit to the Bruins, because they did it, they did it perfect, right? They had the 29 years of whatever it was stretch. And then the year they missed straight to dead last place and draft a Hall of Famer first overall in Joe Thornton. That's the way to do it. that's the way to go. All right.

Hey, listen, Sean, thanks for popping by the Monday pod. And, yeah, we'll be looking forward to listening to you and Gentilly again on Wednesday. Right on. Sounds good. Thanks, guys. All right, Laz. You know, we let McIndoo go.

And now I feel like at least we can, let's just analyze something that he said there. Okay. McIndoo, the guy who believes that all of Toronto Stanley Cups in a 16 league are valid, just watered down the Boston Bruins playoff streak because they were in the weak Adams division. It's almost as if hockey fandom is not a rational endeavor. Who knew?

Yeah, who knew? This is what you do as hockey fan. You pick and choose the stats you like. You're like, look, I am like eyeballs deep in this Brock Faber, Connor Bedard debate, right? Like the black coach just played the wild yesterday afternoon. And Brock Faber had an assist yesterday yesterday, Connor Bernard had a really quiet day.

So I've got hundreds, if not thousands of wild fans in my mentions saying how it's proof. That game won Connor, one Brock Faber the Calder Award. And it's not. Bedard's going to win it and he should, as great as favor is. But this is what you do, both sides in the comments of every story I write, all the fun that Russo and Joe Smith and I are having with this debate kind of stoking the fire, everyone's like, well, you know, well, if you look at Bard, he's a minus 39. You can't be good as defensively with a minus 39.

And then Blackhawks fans will be like, well, since January 1st, Brock Fabers are minus 10 and Connor Breda is a minus 11. They're basically the same defensive player now. You just, you pick and choose what supports your argument and you run with it. That's the modern political discourse and that's also the modern sports discourse. Well, yeah, and actually that last, that is the perfect segue into another empty net controversy in the NHL involving the Ottawa senators. So just to reset for the listeners, if you remember,

Remember, a couple of months ago, Ridley Greg with an overly emphatic slap shot into an empty net against Toronto. Morgan Riley takes exception, cross-checks him in the face. He gets a five-game suspension and it opens up a discourse about unwritten rules and what's allowed and what's not. Fast forward to Saturday night. I'm in Ottawa. Same spot in the press box. But I, you know, what's funny is I didn't even realize that this was that big of a deal. But as time is expiring, Nico Hescher of the Devils has the puck at the Ottawa blue line,

Ottawa's net is empty. He's at the blue line, the horn sounds to end the game. Heeshire continues on towards the Ottawa net and kind of lets the puck go, doesn't shoot it. I want to make that very clear. Nico Heser did not shoot the puck into the empty net, but he certainly guided it into the empty net. Brady Kachuk, Ottawa Captain, goes berserk.

Skates 100 feet the other direction, goes at Heeshire. Now, he doesn't cross-check him. He actually doesn't get to him, but he makes his voices displeasure, shall we say. Now, everybody is ready to point the gaha. You are the hypocrite we thought you were. And that's what this all is. everyone can we just agree everybody is a hypocrite and move on right doesn't i feel like that's what happened to her yes everyone's a hypocrite but also everyone is so soft like whoa you're crying over a guy

just letting a puck go into every single basketball game you watch NBA college high school whatever if there's a foul called on the floor like a moving screen or something the guy with the ball still shoots the three it's a practice shot hey i'm going to shoot three there's not a There's not a fight every time it happens. This is the dumbest thing. I don't care if Nico Heeshire did a surreabonally backflip and put the puck in between his legs. Who cares? The play was over.

How is this an egregious affront to your manhood and your sportsmanship that he let the puck go into the net after a whistle? My God, grow up. What are we doing here? Okay, but here's the weird thing And this is not, this is a don't shoot the messenger, okay? So just, just, I'm trying to, I'm just, I want to lay out what I thought was an interesting fact. Come on, Ian, justify this for it. No, no, no, no.

Justify this uncertainty for it. I'm not, I'm not. I, I think the whole thing with Ridley Greg was ridiculous. I think this is ridiculous. I think, whatever. But here's what's weird. The officials gave Nico He's shirt. an unsportsman-like penalty

at the 20-minute mark of the third period. And there goes the lady Bing. Well, I don't know what to think of this. It's so stupid. Like, it's just, it's like the most quintessentially hockey thing ever, right? To have, like, to get that worked up

over something so innocuous, so just unimportant and insignificant. This is the, this is the toughest, manliest most macho sport there is. And these guys freak out over the slightest little indignities. Unwritten roles. I just, I don't. He didn't even shoot the puck.

He let it slide into the net. Should he have dived in front of it and like saved it to avoid the ultimate insult of the puck crossing the goal? Like, give me a break. Okay. So then here's the question. We both agree Nico Heeshire didn't shoot the puck in the net, right? Like we both agree on that.

He let it. He steered the puck. He steered it a little bit. If Nico Heeshire took a wrist shot and put it into the empty net after the whistle, would you have had a problem with it? No.

Okay. I just said this, this happens 20 times a game in basketball. It's not a big deal. If Nico Heeshire had taken the puck, skate it over to the Ottawa bench and fired it at their head coach's face. Yeah, I'd have a problem with that. That's an egregious insult.

Yeah. Putting the puck in the net when you're just screwed around like it's a, like, that's what you do in practice, right? You see a puck. You go knock it in the net. It's just a harmless little thing. It's not an affront to anyone's manhood. It's not an insult to the city of Ottawa.

It's nothing. It's nothing at all. It's certainly not worth flying down the ice and losing your mind and attacking someone over. So just to give the list. How high pitch my voice is getting. That's how I'm going to am about this. Yeah.

Like just to give the listener some context because I covered the game. So I watched, you know, at the end of the game, I saw the final sequence. And then the way it works is you just literally leave the press box, jump in an elevator, go down. So I didn't think much of it. In fact, Brady Kachuk set an NHL record, Las on Saturday. He was credited with 16 hits. He was like a one-man wrecking crew. probably one of the most impressive games I've ever seen him play.

So that was our focus in the post game was Brady, you know, Brady played a great game. He scored a late goal, all this stuff. I'll admit very freely that that sequence didn't even cross my mind because I didn't think it was a, they didn't actually fight. Nothing really happened. I leave the arena. I go home and then I look at my phone and people are like having this. And I felt this sense of regret that, I mean, had I realized that.

It was a big deal. I would have asked them about it, but I didn't even realize it was a big deal. You could have racked up those page views, stoking that fire. Oh, man. And I thought about, last,

I thought about writing on this topic today. And I thought, now I'm just manufacturing a story, aren't I? A controversy. You're just, you're just giving oxygen to a stupid discussion, right?

Yeah. I mean, that's what we're doing right now. We're giving oxygen to us, like this discussion should have lasted to 10 seconds. It should have been what Brady Kachuk did was ridiculous and over the top and a disproportionate response. Let's move on. But this is, it's just, you can't resist because it's Ottawa. If it was any other team in the league, we probably wouldn't have made that big of a deal out of it.

But that it's Ottawa, the team that got, that did this. This guy, Richard Greg went out and he did the slap shot into an empty net and everyone, and it set off this firestorm around the league. For it to be Ottawa, it's just, it's, let's face it, it, it's, it's, let's face it, it in, it's so Ottawa. Well, and, and okay, and here's my other question on that, uh, topic because it's, uh, it's funny how, and I'm, I'm trying to find the tweet because it was, uh, Mike, it was, and, and then Josh Yoey got in on this as well. And, and Mike Harrington of the Buffalo news. Those, those are, those are two guys that love to weigh in on topics like this. Okay.

So Mike Harrington tweets out about Brady Kachuk. That's rich. The captain in Ottawa must have a short memory when it comes to empty nets, just a completely unlikable player and team. To which Josh Yoey, our esteemed colleague with the athletic who covers the penguins, responded, what an immature dysfunctional franchise. So is that how Ottawa is generally viewed outside of this market last? Immature, dysfunctional?

I mean, the immature part feels new to me. Like, this is happening this year. That feels like a new wrinkle to Ottawa's reputation. The dysfunctional part, it's been that way almost since they've been back in the league. Let's be honest here. So I do think that they're developing a reputation as this is kind of a loose canon team that doesn't really have control of it. right now. Yeah. Yeah, you might, you know what? And you're right. The immature factor might be new,

but for a team that is going to miss the playoffs again, boy, they seem to be, they seem to be a talking point with a lot of fans. I know there's a lot of Toronto fans that were like, aha, we got you. We got you on the whole Ridley Gregg slap shot thing. Yeah. You couldn't scripted it any better to have Ottawa do that. No. And look, the Ottawa, New Jersey game didn't matter. at all. You know what did matter? Colorado, Dallas on Sunday. And that's a clash of the Titans, a huge game. Dallas responds by hanging seven on the avalanche. They've pulled ahead in the Western, in the Central

Division race. Is that, is that like a state, like for you? Statement win by Dallas that sort of definitively says the path to the Stanley Cup is going to go through American Airlines Arena and the Dallas stars are unequivocally the best team in the West going into the playoffs. I don't know if you can say unequivocally because the West is so top-heavy right now. Vancouver is so good. We know Colorado is really good. Winnipeg has such great potential.

Vegas is still Vegas. But since day one of this year, Dallas has been my pick for the Western Conference. They're so good. Like, Matt Dushan had an interview on TNT yet last night, I think, or ESPN last night, where he's saying, you know, we don't have quite the stars, but we have all this depth. And I'm like, are you kidding me? There's super talented players left and right on that team. Rupahans, one of the best players in the league, all around players, Jason Robertson, obviously,

Joe Pavelski's still there, you know, Tyler Sagan's turning back the clock, Jamie Ben's still linging around. And now that Jake Ottinger is starting to look like himself again, he is really, you know, he's got two shutouts in his last three games. he's starting to play the way that we know he can play. Man, we've been saying all year that Colorado is the scariest team in the league because of just the supreme talent they have. But, man, Dallas is the best team in the NHL.

And I think last night was really a statement to the rest of the league that, you know, just because we're in Texas, don't sleep on us. Yeah, and, you know, they got such a balanced attack. Like, what do they have, eight guys with 20 goals? I think it's eight guys, right? Like Mason, Marchman. has 20 and Ben and Sagan are in the 20s. And like you said, Rupert Hintz a 30-gold guy,

Wyatt Johnson a 30-gold guy, Pavelsky's motoring like it's 2010. Like I look at that team and if Ottinger, like you said, he's kind of come around. If Ottinger can play the way that he can, which is he gets out of his mind. Like think of that Calgary series a couple years ago, even though they lost, he was out of his mind.

I don't know how you pick against them in the West. I really don't. Like, this is going to be unbelievable to watch that Western fight, but I think that win on Sunday was a statement win by Dallas. I really do. This is the kind of team that wins Stanley Cups. It's just wave after wave. Their third line is a scoring line.

It's not a checking line. This is how teams are built now. They just, you just, there's no, you got to pick your poison as, whether you have the matchups or not, you can't win because they're always just going to send over another line that's just so good. you got Miro Hayskin and on the back end and you got a world-class goalie, this team is probably the best built team in the NHL. They're just structured so well.

There's no real weaknesses. And they remind me of those great, you know, Black Ox teams where you have eight or nine legitimate top six guys. And that's what separates a team. I remember Mike Babcock said this 10, 11 years ago during a playoff series I was covering. It says every team, once you get to like the second round of the playoffs, every team has a great two lines. It's what do you have on your third and fourth line?

What do you have in your third pairing that really sets you apart? And that's what Dallas has. Dallas has the kind of depth that Colorado had two years ago and maybe doesn't have this year. And I think that's what separates a team like Dallas right now is they're just relentless. There's no break. There's no rest. Everything they throw over the boards has the chance to do damage. Yeah.

And that win by Dallas pretty much. locks up the central for them or close to it. And what that does, as we mentioned with Sean, is this pretty much sets us up Colorado, Winnipeg, in the first round. And I mean, I think if you ask most people, they're going to, like, I think you're going to see about 90 to 95% of experts pick in Colorado, right?

Like that, that feels like how this is going to go with the experts. But don't you think that Winnipeg is a, about as tough of an out as you're going to get in that West. And I know they've struggled. I know they're not what they were in January and early February. But I don't know that I love that matchup for the avalanche. And I don't think it's going to be a five-game series. Or like, I don't know. I don't want any part of Connor Hellebuck in a playoff series. That's all it comes down to, right? It's two words. It's Connor Hellebuck. Connor Hellebuck can win a series on his own. He is the best goalie on

planet. And he's behind a pretty good team. And Winnipeg, you know, they had that six-game losing streak, but if they were fading, they've won a few in a row now. You know, Hellebuck had a very pedestrian march, but we know what he's capable of. I don't want to see Connor Hellebuck in the first round if I'm Colorado. Winnipeg is a massive matchup advantage in goal. And I don't care. Colorado has the advantage almost everywhere else. I am terrified of Connor Hellebuck, if I'm any team in the league. I would probably pick Colorado in that series, but I wouldn't feel good about as much as I love that avalanche team and think the world of them,

I would not feel good about picking against Connor Haleba. Same goes for Igor Shosturkin. The same goes for, you know, Thatcher Demko. And even with Ilius Sorokin in New York, the Islanders, that Islanders team is not a very impressive team. But they can beat any team in the league in a seven-game series because Alia Sorokin's capable of just saying, screw it, I'm taking it.

The Dallas Stars, by virtue of that win, as I mentioned last, they give themselves a five-point cushion on Colorado for first place in the central. And they also keep their president's trophy bit alive. And, you know, usually we have Jesse Granger who joins us as a presentation of BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. Granger is off today. I don't know.

Is he also part of this path of totality? Like, is he going down to see the eclipse? Today, what's Granger doing? You might be in Mexico or something to do that the way that path goes. Yeah, that's right. It doesn't quite, yeah, it kind of cuts a kind of a funny angle. Anyway, I do want to look at the president's trophy race, though, for a second, because this is something we would have chatted with Granger about.

Like, the Rangers have the lead here by three points, Dallas, Boston. I don't think Vancouver's in the mix anymore. Like, they're kind of far out of it. But do you see anybody other than the Rangers? winning the president's trophy now? Probably not, but the one thing that could do it is the Rangers have a really interesting schedule to close, right? Because they're not playing any quote-unquote good teams, but they're playing some desperate teams. They've got the Islanders twice, and that's a rivalry game on top of being a desperate Islanders team.

And they got those two games sandwiched around a game against the Flyers who are also desperate. And then they close the season against Ottawa, so they better not put the fucking in the empty nets. That would be scary. But I don't like like they, in theory, have. have a very favorable schedule to, it's hard to blow a three-point lead in four games in the NHL just because loser points and things like that. But the Rangers aren't really playing for a whole lot. I mean, the President's Trophy doesn't mean a lot to most players.

They've got the division pretty much locked up here. So how hard are they going to be playing against teams that are playing for their playoff lives? My money would be on the Rangers. That's the smart bet there. But there is that X factor of them playing some teams. that just need it so bad right now. And Boston is three back of the Rangers.

And we talked about this earlier. Maybe the sort of the motivation for the Bruins is, we don't want the lightning in round one. Like, you know, if we win our division, we don't want the lightning. We want Philly or Washington or Detroit or Pittsburgh. And that's the motivation, right? Like, there is an incentive, I think, to finish first in the east so that you don't face one of those teams.

Whereas in the West, boy, you're going to get a tough first round. Like those wild cards, the Nashvilles, the Vegases, the Edmontons, the L.A. They're all pretty good, right? Like, for the most part. Yeah. And Boston, they don't have an easy path either. They got Carolina on Tuesday night. Then they got Pittsburgh and Washington back to back.

And they also close against Ottawa. So they got some desperate teams in there, too. Can I, why aren't we, we basically never talk about the Boston Bruins this year. Is that, I mean, they're coming off the greatest regular season in NHL history, right? Is the fact that they lost in the first round make us wary of talking about them as a true. I feel like they don't come up. We talk about all those teams out west. We talk about the Rangers.

We talk about the Hurricanes. I don't feel like we talk about the Boston Bruins that much. This is a major market original six team that is contending for the president's trophy and coming off the best season in history. And I feel like nobody in the hockey world talks about them. Yeah, you're right, because they're going to end up with like

25 fewer points, let's say than last year. I think what they have last year, like 135 points, right? Like, something absurd like that. Yeah. First of all, I'd love to see, this is a research project for Down Goes Brown. How many teams have regressed by 25 points and still made the playoffs?

Like, it's probably very rare. still won the president's trophy potentially. And I think in a weird way, we've become desensitized to the Bruins in the regular season. But we should be giving them so much credit without Craichy, without Bergeron, they're at this level.

But for some reason, you're 100% right. We don't put them on the same level as Dallas, Colorado. It is a weird thing. But maybe you're right. Maybe it's the, you got bounce in the first round and you better prove it to us.

You know, prove it. Prove it in the playoffs. Maybe. Maybe that's part of it. Kind of a once bit and twice shy thing. And maybe just, we take the Bruins for granted because every year they're really good. But then they, you know,

they went to the final in 13 and they went to the final in, what, 19? 19. But for the most part, they're a fair, phenomenal regular season. team that doesn't go all the way. It's been, you know, 2011 was a long time ago now. And I don't know if we take them for granted or if we overrate them, if we underrate them. It's just a weird thing for, you know, it's easy to overlook a team in like Dallas, Texas or

Raleigh, North Carolina. But it seems like we give those teams a lot of oxygen, but not the Boston freaking Bruins. It's kind of wild. They have one of the best players in the world in David Posternak. They have two great goalies. And it just feels like they're somehow under the radar, which almost seems impossible. It's, you know what? A great fact is, like, Posternak is knocking at the door of another 50 goal season. I think he's, yeah, he's got 47. And maybe that this is because so many other players are having great years.

But who's talking about Posternak's here? Nobody, right? Doesn't it feel like nobody's talking about Posternak on the version of 50? He's another guy that in any other year would be right in the thick of the MVP conversation. like Artemi Panarans in that group too. These guys that are just having world-class, amazing, legendary seasons, and they're going to finish on like seventh, eighth, ninth, in the balloting for the Hart Trophy this year.

This year is just absolutely nuts. Yeah, and actually that's a perfect place for us to wrap up. I do want to ask you, because we've got about just under two weeks to go the regular season, Nikita Kuturov has 136 points and is leading the scoring race by three on McKinnon,

by six on McDavid. It could change, but do you think Nikita Kuturoff, if he wins the Art Ross, if he wins the scoring title, and he outscores his next closest teammate who's Braden Point

by something in the neighborhood of 45 points, 50 points, is that going to be enough to give Nikita Kutjav a heart trophy? Or do you think the McDavid 100 assist factors greater, the McKinnon kind of, of just being a little bit more well-rounded, maybe.

Is that a factor? Where does Kuturov rank for you? I still have McKinnon and Hullabuck, probably at the top. The Hullabucks March kind of knocked him down to back. He was my guy, and I'm not so convinced on that now. I think the momentum is behind Kuturov, and there's that Taylor Hall factor, right? When Taylor Hall won the MVP with New Jersey, he was so far ahead of his nearest teammates that it felt like he was willing the devils into the playoffs,

and that's kind of what's happening with Tampa. When you're when you're that seven or eight seed and you got one guy who's doing so much of the work, it's hard to ignore. But I don't know, if you look deeper into the numbers, like Kuturov is almost an even player at five on five. Like the bolts give up as much as they get with him on the eye. So it's, you know, McKinnon has been so dominant from start to finish and he's such an all-around player. I still lean McKinnon. But what Kuturov is doing, I don't mean to dismiss it or diminish it in any way. It's absolutely spectacular.

And he certainly belongs in the conversation. He will be in my ballot in my top five. I don't quite know where yet. I don't think it'll be number one. But I can't rule it out yet either. Yeah. At BenMGM, Nate McKinnon is the favorite at minus 300. Kutrov is second.

McDavid is third. That's the way they're looking at it from that perspective. It's going to be really interesting. And you know what? And you and I are the types that, you know, we traditionally have votes on this. Like if you put, like, for example, and you obviously don't have your heart trophy ballot locked in.

But like, just for example, if you put Hellebuck in your top three, that's going to be really interesting because I don't know. Like that could be the type of thing that that sways everything because this could, I think this is going to come down to one or two votes at the very, It's going to be like the Aguilah, Jose Theodore year, where they were like dead even, and it came down to a couple of votes, really.

Well, I think the real X factor here is going to be Sidney Crosby, because there is a class of voter. And I don't mean to insult anybody because this is, it's a valid thought process, is that if this penguin's team gets into the playoffs, given all the, all the misery they've had, and this is Sydney Crosby's having one of the best seasons of his career, why not put Sidney Crosby in there too? And again, he's in that Panarin and Posternakmo where he deserves consideration,

but isn't going to get it for most people. But I think you're going to see a few first place votes for Sidney Crosby. And that's what, that's going to bump some guys down. Look, I firmly believe, I'm not doing this as some stunt. I firmly believe Connor Hellebuck should be one, two, or three in the heart discussion. But I'm in them. Most people are not going to have Connor Hellebuck on their ballot because most people don't vote that way. They don't put bullies on their heart ballot.

I strongly disagree. I almost always have goalies in my heart ballot. ballot. It's the most important position in sports, more than quarterback. So if that affects the voting, it's not like I'm doing it to kind of undermine the process. It's because I'm voting my conscience and my conscience says right now, Connor Hellebuck means more to his team than, yeah, maybe even Artemmy Panarin means to the Rangers or maybe more than David Posternak means to the Bruins, maybe more than Connor McDavid means to the Oilers this year.

Man, okay, I got to ask you this then to wrap. if the penguins make the playoffs you're saying you think somebody will give Crosby a first place vote? I think several people will. Really? First place. I believe that with every fiber of my being. Sidney Crosby will get first place heart votes

if the penguins, and you know what? You can make the argument. You really can. I wouldn't. I would not make that vote, but I would not look down my nose at those people. That is a valid opinion. Man, well, it's going to be really interesting.

All right. Last, this hour flew by. Listen, I can't wait to hear about how you're in the path of totality. You're going to see a 100% eclipse of the sun. And it lasts, what, about two minutes, roughly? The total eclipse is like two minutes. Where I am, it's going to be three minutes and nine seconds. Three minutes and nine.

Which, by the way, can we talk about how amazing it is that, that people know how to do that kind of math, that kind of science to say years in advance that in Whitesown, Indiana, on April 8th, 2024, at 306 p.m. Eastern time for three minutes and nine seconds. Like, I can't even fathom that kind of math. No. Do you think Dom or Shana could do that?

No. Maybe. And they're a million times smarter than we are. And they cannot do that. Like, it takes like, you know, Catherine Johnson and NASA to do that. Oh, my gosh. listen, safe travels. I hope you and the family have a lot of fun this afternoon with this

eclipse, because it is. It's, it's, sometimes it's a once in a lifetime deal. So enjoy it with the family and safe travels back to, back to Chicago. Yeah, traffic's going to be real fun going back home after this. Let me tell you. Awesome. Well, listen, that wraps up the Monday edition of the pod. Thanks for listening to the athletic hockey show. Leave us a five-star rating and review. If you are enjoying the show. We had Sean McIndoo on earlier. A reminder, our next edition of the Athletic Hockey Show comes up on Wednesday with the two shots. It is Sean McAdoo, Sean Gentilly. I think it's back to having Frankie Corrado this week. So those three will take you through the Wednesday

edition of the pod. Lazz and I will hit you up again on Monday.