The Athletic Hockey Show - Trade Deadline insights with Craig Button, the Devils-Islanders trade, how will the NHL handle the Canucks' situation and more

Episode Date: April 8, 2021

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe discuss Jack Campbell's record-breaking streak in net for Toronto, the latest transaction between the New Jersey Devils and New York Islanders, and some teams and players to keep an eye on at the deadline. Then, former NHL GM and current TSN analyst Craig Button joins the show to give some insights into the trade deadline, including how trade talks can develop, the human aspect of deciding to move a player, and "the fairest trade in NHL history".Then, in "This Week in Hockey History", a situation where a coach had to step in to play a game, which current coach would you want to see take the ice?Have a question for the show? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back for another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Metis alongside Sean McIndoo in this episode of the show. We'll have former NHLGM and current TSN hockey analyst Craig Button to drop by chat about the upcoming trade deadline and go back down memory lane when Craig was in the general manager's chair. We'll chat about what deals we might expect to come over the course the next few days after the Devils and Islanders pulled off a significant trade this week. We'll do the latest in the Vancouver Canucks as well, whether or not they should play again this season. We'll take some of your listener questions and multiple questions, I think, coming in on goalie sticks. We'll get into that a little bit later. This week in hockey history as well, we're looking at a bizarre regular season finale for the Montreal Canadians back in the day.

And the time the New York Rangers head coach suited up as a goalie partway through a Stanley Cup finals game. Yeah, you got to, you got a, you got to, you got a. hear about this story because it's, it's epic. So, Sean, as we kick off this show, I don't know, did you hear that Jack Campbell is one, his first 10 starts this year?

I don't know. I hate to break news to you. No, it's like this, but Jack Campbell's 10 and all. No, I haven't heard that mention. It's, I mean, he plays for the Leafs. It's, they don't get a lot of, a lot of coverage.

Yeah, you know what? I have heard it. And like I tweeted last night, it's, it's a great accomplishment. It's a good. Jack Campbell's a great story. you know, if you haven't read Myrtle's piece on the background there, check that out.

It is deeply weird to me that we're talking about a guy setting a NHL record to begin a season, and it's April. It's, we're into the second week of April and we're talking about NHL records to start a season. But I guess this, everything else has been so strange to this year, we might as well, might as well go to the record book with it too. Well, exactly. you know, just along those lines as we kind of, where you and I live in this part of the country, this part, North America, feels like spring. Heck, it almost feels like summer. And I'm having

a hard time reconciling, oh, yeah, the trade deadlines coming up. It feels like this should be the Stanley Cup playoffs. So the Islanders and the Devils engineer a significant deal, Sean. Let's start there. I mean, this is, the Islanders obviously have some flexibility with the injury to Anders Lee. but I guess this is Lou Lamarillo's way of kind of pushing his chips in the middle of the table and saying, look, we're ready to go here and be a legitimate stand-the-cup contender. Yeah, this is the first, I would say, big deal of the deadline season with apologies to Eric Stahl. And it's interesting because we kind of knew that this was coming in some form for the Islanders. Once Anders Lee went down, you're looking at that team and saying,

okay, this is a real good team. This is absolutely a team that could win. But now you've got this hole. And you never want to see anyone get hurt. But if someone's going to get hurt like that, that's a key piece, have it happen before the deadline where you've got the time to go in and try to patch that hole. And almost immediately you saw on all the trade boards and lists, it was the Islander's first round pick is in play.

And it was kind of a question of where was it going to go? Who were they going to spend it on? And was it going to be Taylor Hall? Was it going to be somebody else? Obviously, the devil's connection with Lula Amarillo made that an option that a lot of people were looking at. And it's interesting to me that we saw it happen five days early. And I think that's something that is probably smart for a team like the Devils, where, you know, even though, you know, given that you're giving up two players that have been with your franchise for a long time, the return certainly isn't overwhelming.

But there's a lot of people looking at this market thinking that this may really end up being a buyer's market. This might be a very tough year to be a seller because because of the cap, because of the budgets, because the playoff bubble isn't really as big as we're used to, I can see it making a lot of sense for a team like the devils to. say, you know what, if there's a first round pick on the board, let's just grab it now. You know, could we wait five days and try to have a bidding war on Monday? Yeah, maybe you could, but maybe then Lou LaMerello says, you know what, I'll go for Taylor Hall instead, and then you're left without a dance partner. So it made sense. Certainly the move makes sense for the Islanders.

I think it makes sense for the Devils, and the timing makes sense for both teams. Get it done now. And then you don't have to worry about something falling off the table in the days to come. You know, one of your columns this week, Sean, was kind of looking at the 31 teams in the league and almost kind of putting them into tears in terms of, you know, are they going to do anything? And it's interesting that the two teams at the top of your list were the Buffalo Sabres and the Nashville Predators. And they're there for very different reasons. The Sabres are on your list because, hey, look, they got to do something. It's starting to fall apart. And I assume we're going to see Taylor Hall moved. But the Nashville Predators, I think the way you describe them, it's like, What are these guys? Like four weeks ago, three weeks ago, I was like, man, Matthiasak Home is gone. They're probably going to tear it all down.

And now it's like, man, they're getting some $9.60, 960 save percentage from the goaltending. And they're right back in the playoff picture. So, I mean, I don't even know. Like, I think Taylor Hall gets moved at some point before the 3 p.m. deadline. But I don't know how much activity we're going to see. I feel like this Islander's Devil's deal might be as big as anything that we see

go down in the next. 72 hours. I mean, Taylor, Taylor Hall had better get moved. If, you know, unless something completely bizarre happens behind the scenes or he decides he doesn't want to wave his, is no trade. Buffalo has to make a move. And they've got to make a good move there. And it's tough because this is, you know, Kevin Adams, rookie GM.

This is his first trade deadline in an NHL front office, let alone as a GM. And he's under all sorts of pressure. And I'm not even sure what he can do at this point. it's going to make people say, oh, okay, this is now good news for the Sabres. They did really well. It's probably unrealistic to think that he can make much of a, you know, make much out of this situation. But that's the scenario that he's in in Buffalo where it's been so bad for so long, he needs to do something to offer up some hope.

And yeah, I mean, there's multiple guys on that roster that could move. But Taylor Hall's a big one. And you've got to figure out how do we maximize the return on a guy. who's got the big name and has got the resume, but has not been having a good season this year. So I'm very interested to see how that plays out. Nashville, who knows? I mean, this was, we had them as sellers for weeks.

We had them as the team probably of all the sellers that was holding the cards, because, you know, there's the Detroit's and Ottawa's of the league that are looking to sell, but what do they really have? I mean, you're not, you're not changing the Stanley Cup favorite odds by making a Luke Lindenning trade. But Matthias Ekholm, that could absolutely be something that moves the needle on that. And there were multiple guys on Nashville that we were all looking at saying, these guys are going to go and David Poil is going to have a busy time.

Suddenly, this hot street comes along. Now they're right in the playoffs. Are they still selling? Can you sell when your team is just clawed back into the race? Are you buying all of a sudden? I don't know. And it's a very fluid situation right now because you look at. at some of the teams that are on that bubble or close to it.

Like I said, there's not as many as you might think. And there's a few teams on there where maybe we didn't expect them. San Jose is kind of creeping back into the race. I mean, do you push some more chips in if you're Doug Wilson and try to get that team into the playoffs? You know, it's a situation where we're having this conversation on Thursday. By Sunday night, some of these teams, based on the next couple of games, could be in very different situations.

And, you know, there may be some teams right now that are putting things on hold saying, hey, I know I said I was a seller a week ago, but I'm not sure I am anymore. But if we lose these back-to-back games on Friday and Saturday, I'll call you back because I'm back in the market at that point. You know, what other name that you brought up in your column? And I'm really fascinated by this is Ryan Getslath. And Getslap is a little, he's a little different than like the Marlowe's and the Thorntons and the Spetz's in that he's got his cup.

Like he, Ryan Gatslough got his cup in 07 and it's been 14 years. But he's probably got that desire where he's, you know, he could probably go in there and be that kind of bottom six centermen and that. What do you think Anaheim does with Ryan Getslop here? Because he's also a legacy player, right? And you got to, you got to be careful with how you handle legacy players.

I mean, I think the answer here is they do whatever Ryan Gatslop wants them to do. And this is, he's got no trade protection, but even if he didn't, I think, like you say, this is, this is a case where you, you want to handle it carefully. And I think in a normal season, Brian Getslap is exactly the sort of guy who would be a big trade deadline name. Because, you know, what do NHLGMs love more than anything, right? They love that grit. They love that know how to win, bringing in a guy who's got a cup ring, but is going to be hungry for another one. it's the sort of move that would normally be catnip to NHLGMs.

But, and probably would be for a player too. Like, yeah, I'll go. I'll hit the road for three months, try to win a Stanley Cup. And then even, you know, he's a free agent at the end of the year. He could even go back to Anaheim after that. It would be a perfect situation. But this isn't a normal year, and it's not a perfect situation. And I think everyone could absolutely understand if Ryan Getslap said to Bob Murray,

don't even pick up the phone. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not leaving my family right now. I'm not doing any of that. But who knows? You know, maybe the appetite is there. And if there is, even given that he's got the big cap hit, there's, there would be ways to make that work. And there would be teams that you could absolutely see being very interested. If this guy was available, we just don't know if he is. Let's stay on the West Coast here for a second, because obviously the biggest story of the week and maybe of the month and arguably, of the season, the Vancouver Canucks and the COVID outbreak, Sean. And I can't help but wrestle with this one wondering why bother? Why bother coming back to play? You're not going to make the playoffs. There's no real true implications here on the standings.

But then I see the reporting of the likes of Darren Dregor suggesting that at some point this month, the Vancouver Canucks are going to try to come back and play. I guess I don't know if it's an ethical question. I don't know if it's a logistical question. it's a legitimate question, though. Should the Vancouver Canucks come back and play again this season? What does your gut? Like, what's your gut tell you?

Yeah, my gut tells me that they should come back and play when they are ready to do that and when they can do it safely and with the health of the players and their families and the staff and everyone around them who's been affected there. So is that going to be soon? I can't imagine that it will be. But yeah, we've got six weeks left in the. this season. I think it's it's certainly plausible that at some point that Canucks will be be ready to play again. And then, yeah, you do play because you're pro athletes and that's

what you do. That's the job and that's how you're wired. And there are also the competitive concerns as far as the rest of the division, again, not as significant as it would be if we were talking about a team in the middle of a playoff race. But you are looking at. You are looking at looking at it and saying, okay, how do we make sure that we get as much of a schedule played in this division as we can? But having said that, it's not going to be a full season. And we can forget about the idea. I think that the Canucks are going to finish a 56 game schedule.

And I know the league is still saying that. I don't even blame the league for saying that that's the goal because I don't know how they benefit by saying otherwise right now. But realistically, that's not going to happen. And that is fine. We said this at the beginning of the year. There was a very good chance that a scenario like this was going to come up with some teams somewhere in the league where they were not going to be able to finish the season,

play the full 56 games. And that's absolutely fine. Do not feel like the NHL is obligated to squeeze in some sort of condensed finale here or extend the year by a couple of weeks just so the one team can finish their schedule. It's not necessary. And I don't think they will do it. I can't imagine why they would. They don't need to announce that right now.

But the rest of us should get our heads around the fact that the Canucks are not going to play 56, which means that the rest of the teams in that division will not get to 56. Try to balance it out as best as you can. How many times have we said since all of this started a year ago with the playoffs and then this season, sometimes good enough has to be good enough. And the Canucks getting back, having people be helped. having it be safe, play out some of the rest of the season, but not get to that 56 games. That's not ideal, but we knew we weren't going to get ideal.

It's good enough. And we should be fine with it when that eventually comes to pass. Let me throw out one potential scenario for you where the Vancouver Connects could get to 56 games, Sean. And that would be what do you think the appetite would be from the players, from the league, if once the playoffs start, Vancouver continues. season with games against Calgary and Ottawa that were scheduled for in the next couple of weeks. They simply push those back. The games that they were supposed to play, I think they've got games against Toronto and

Edmonton. They play them at some point before the 10th of May. But then when the playoffs start, they get their games against Ottawa and Calgary. And then everybody gets to 56. I'm not saying I like the idea. I'm just saying I wouldn't necessarily rule that out of the equation. Yeah, I mean, I suppose you could do it that way. I really would.

It'd be terrible. It would be terrible. Nobody would be paying any attention of those games in the middle of the playoffs. In Canada, there's not going to be fans in the building. So it's not like you're banking some revenue by having those games. And they would be awful games. I mean, I've got all the respect in the world for NHL players. They're competitors.

You know, we see guys. There are teams already. They're out of the race. We know the season isn't going anywhere. where they still go out there and put the effort in. But it's one thing to do it now. It's another thing to say, hey, the playoffs have already started.

We need the Canucks to play a meaningless game against the Ottawa Senators. You know, I think we've got to, at some point, you know, these are human beings. Like, you know, they signed on to play a full season. They're going to play through the first week of May like they agreed to. But to ask them to stick around and finish off a season

that has been a disaster in every sense of the world. I mean, at some point, I don't see the benefit. And I can absolutely see the players saying, you know what, we're done. We're going home. We're going back to our families. And no, we're not going to stick around and play meaningless games just so that we can get to an arbitrary number that we all should have expected that some of us wouldn't be able to get to. Yeah. And I agree.

Look, I'm just, I'm trying. I think they got to think outside of the box. You can think of all the scenarios. You know, that's the league's job right now is, you know, they don't put everything on the table to start with, and then you start taking things off as you go. And I think that idea is probably one that's being considered, but that should probably be the first one to come off the table.

Yeah. The only thing to consider is the television rights deals that, you know, they are contractually obligated to show certain numbers of, amount of games. And then, yeah, a team like Vancouver is going to have to give Rogers money back at the end of the season. Maybe. But if I'm a TV network, you know, like, it's, it's, if I've, if I've got Toronto playing

Montreal in the first round of the playoffs, do I think anybody is turning on their TV to see Ottawa play Vancouver? It's, it's not going to happen. I think you got to just kind of take the loss on that one and move on. All right, Sean, this is, this is going to be a lot of fun because, you know, Craig Button is somebody who used to join me on the radio when I was under the third. TSN umbrella all the time. And I, look, I know he's a really, he's a great energetic guest and I thought this is

going to be a lot of fun to get a former general manager, Sean, with us just before the trade deadline, right? Yeah, absolutely. Let's, you and I can sit on the couch or sit in front of our microphones and speculate about what's going on in NHL front offices. But let's, let's talk to someone who's actually been there and has some insight into what might be going through the minds and the phone lines of some of these guys in the days leading up to this deadline. Exactly. Not our EA sports trades that we used to do back in the day. The real deal.

Let's bring them in. It is so great to have Craig Button from TSN joining us. Thanks so much for doing this, Craig. It is my pleasure to join you both today. I'm always fun. It's so much fun to be part of something. I'm just kidding. I was like, where's my energy? Where's the energy, right? I can't even, I can't even fake the no energy. It just doesn't, it doesn't come naturally at all. So, hey, what's not there to be excited about?

Like, you know, the pandemic, we can see a finish line. Hopefully we get there as soon as possible. I hope both Sean and Ian and your friends, family, loved ones are, you know, doing well and that everybody's managing as best as they can through this. But, you know, you know, the NHL season is. picked up and, you know, it's got some intriguing storylines. And now we get to the trade deadline, which is the opportunity for GMs to finesse their teams. That's what I'm going to call it, finessing their teams. So let's talk a little bit about like, first of all, for you, trade

deadline day, I know TSN has, you know, a million people working on that show. But just from a, with the pandemic, are things going to be different? Like, what's your role on trade deadline day? Well, you know, James Duthy, who's always fearful about trades happening and too many trades happening before trade deadline. He sends out a personalized note to every GM in the league, probably about four weeks in advance, just asking him to please don't make a trade until trade deadline day. He'll give them all the face time they need. So, you know, when there's a trade made, you know, we get the GMs or the players up. And James really is the one that in this world of remote television. he's the one that guides everything along.

He guides it along when we're in studio. But it's become even more important because you can't read off the people's body language. You can't just jump in. So, you know, we still have lots of, lots of different opinions and perspectives that will be offered. But James will be managing that from his post there. And, you know, again, it becomes a lot of fun because, you know, usually what we don't get an opportunity to do is to get all those different voices in the same. same room at the same time. Usually we're scattered.

You know, Ray Ferraro is getting ready to do a game. Jamie McClennan's getting ready to do a game. Darren Dregor might be on a panel. Craig Butt might be on another panel. We're all together. So it's so it is a fun time. I mean, and you know, we'll have lots to talk about. You know, we got expansion to talk about.

We got, you know, who, what teams look like, what teams did, what teams didn't do. So there'll be no lack of, uh, topics to, uh, discuss. And I would say Jim Rutherford's going to join us. I don't know if you're aware of that. Jim Rutherford, the Hall of Fame GM is going to be on the panel that day. So, you know, Jim's obviously got great experiences and made a lot of great trades. But, you know, he's also a very personable guy that I think will be a lot of fun to listen to, not only for the viewers, but for myself as well.

Craig, I got to ask you, like, and Sean and I were talking about this, it's so great to get your perspective on, Trade Deadline Day because you've sat in the seat as a general manager, as a director of player personnel with the Dallas Stars. Can you take us inside the quote unquote war room? Like what is that feeling like on trade deadline day inside a inside a team's war room or situation room? Well, I think it's always interesting because there's so many different parts of it.

The first part is is really assessing your own team. You know, what are you looking to do? What do you feel that you would like to do? And, you know, you come up to the day and then you reach the day. And, you know, all this talk about, oh, yeah, teams are waiting for this. Everybody waits to the last minute for the most part, right? I mean, yeah, there's some trades that happen. But for the most part, it's a lead in right to that day.

So you've done your preparatory work. You have a pretty good idea of what the possibilities are. but there's uncertainty around it because there's other teams that are considering the same possibilities as you. I'll give you an example. Bob Ganey was great, a general manager in Dallas. So in 1999, we had a good team. We had a really good team.

We knew we had a good team. And we really felt, okay, what could we use? What could we do? And our assessment came down to we don't really need anything. And we liked our team. We liked our players. And we knew what Colorado and Detroit were looking to try to do around us. We were watching.

Anyway, we make the decision that we're not going to, we're going to stand back, right? But now it comes in what the Detroit Red Wings have done. They acquire Wendell Clark, you know, the Colorado avalanche have acquired Dale Hunter. And we're sitting there going, ooh. And Bob Ganey goes, ooh, those are players that get your attention, aren't they? And that's what they were trying. And now you're sitting there in this great state of, did we do the right thing? Did we do the right thing?

And so you're convinced you've done the right thing until other information comes your way. And now you're not sure. Now, we ended up winning. But those are the types of things that you're trying to evaluate. Okay. And yeah, we talked about Wendell at that time. We talked about Dale Hunter. We knew that they were instrumental players.

But you're building up to that, building up to that point. assessing, okay, yeah, we're good. And then, oh, are we good? And then the chat, then you start to play, right? I mean, we ultimately ended up winning. It's a rarity, it is, for a team that wins the president's troker to win the Stanley Cup. So, you know, we did have a good team, but so did Detroit. So to Colorado.

It took his seven games to beat Colorado. So it wasn't like, you know, we zipped along through there. You know, and then there's other times, I know when I was in Calgary and, you know, coming down to the trade deadline in 2001. And we were trying to acquire a center of it. And we were looking at Michael Pecca, who was in a holdout with the Buffalo Sabres at the time. And you know, you're having discussions and you're having discussions and you think

you're along a path. And then that morning, you know, the Buffalo Sabres essentially decided that they were going to make Michael Peckis set out for the rest of the year. So it's not the time that you can go and start new discussions. there was discussions that were underway. And then, you know, you have to be, you have to act and you have to act very quickly. But if you're going to pick up the phone on the morning of trade deadline and start trying to make moves for your team, you're not going to be able to do it. And, you know, I was a manager and I know when I was in Dallas, you get those teams that phone at the last minute.

Would you do this? I remember Bob Ganey one time. So I forget who the manager was. He phoned. Would you do this? Bob just said, no. And there was this long pause. You could hear the pause by, like there was two words, right?

Like, you know, like, no phone at the last seconds trying to stay as you're scrabling. Because really what it is, it's an indictment against yourself. If you're not prepared and you're not going into the trade deadline, doesn't mean you're going to be able to do everything you'd like to do. But don't, don't show yourself to be scattered in your approach to trying to improve your team because that's the only thing that comes of it when you're down to the last minute. And I know I had that at different times in Calgary. It's like, give me a break.

Get out of here. You got trade calls. You got everything you've got to do it. Five minutes to the deadline, somebody's phone. I'm like, no. You know what? It's so funny listening to you say this because I'm sitting here, never haven't been in a front office for a trade deadline, obviously. It sounds like my fantasy football pool where there are certain guys, you get that email, it says trade offer.

And you're like, no, I'm not the. with this guy right now. And then there's other ones where you're like, okay, this is maybe, like, is it like that where there are just certain GMs or certain guys in front offices that you work with where you're almost, you don't even want to see their name come up on the phone because, you know, you're going to have to jump through all these hoops. And there are others where you go, you know what, we can make a deal real fast, maybe because we've done it before or maybe somebody just has a reputation that are a straight shooter. We're going to cut the crap and we're just going to get to a deal. Absolutely, Sean. And, you know, that's, you know, I think every GM, you know, wants to operate in a, in a sphere where, hey, what are you looking for? Does this fit? Does it not fit? And let's, let's dispatch with, with all the, with all the place, I'll call it, right? I mean, I remember one day, you know, GM called and he, he wanted, he proposed a trade. And, and I, and I, he had done this a couple of times. And I, and I, he had done this a couple of times. And I, and I, and I, he had done this a couple of times. And I. And I, and I, he, he had. And I, he had. And I, he had. And I, he had. He had

I just had it that day. It was one of those days where I'd had it. I said, you know what? I said, today is your lucky day. And it was, why is that? I said, we just were discussing in our group. What could be the dumbest thing we could possibly do? And you just phone and propose that.

And he got all defensive. Like, how can you say, I said, you're the one that phone me. Like, seriously. And if you want to be serious, I'm happy to talk. If you don't want to be serious, don't phone it. And sometimes you got to just. And there are places that you will go to, to talk. and you know that it's going to be straight.

Lou Lamarillo was always great. Here's what I'm looking to do. Here's how we'd like to do it. Jim Rutherford was great. You don't have time to waste. And as you get up to the trade deadline, Sean, and it's those, there's nothing wrong with somebody phoning near the deadline

if you've had those discussions. But those random calls that just all of a sudden come out of the blue. And, you know, it's like, sorry, I don't have time for this. Bye. So that does go on, Sean. Don't take just because it's the end. NHL that it doesn't go, it goes on. And again, I can't, it speaks to, it speaks to lack of preparedness. It speaks to scrambling. It speaks to not having your work done ahead of time. And there's a number of

GMs, you know, that I dealt with that were like that and they still are. You know, Craig, I don't know if you ever engineered anything significant with Pierre Laquois, but that was one of his reputation, the reputation was always, Pierre would give you an offer and then tell you, you got an X amount of time. But if this leaks out to the media, it's toast. Can you walk us through kind of like making sure things were done in a cone of silence? Because there has to be a trust element too, right? When you're dealing with a fellow general manager,

if word gets out that you're potentially shopping a player, it could be very damaging to your own relationship with your own player. So can you walk us through that aspect of keeping everything kind of under wraps? Well, I think when you, you reach a point where, you know, somebody phoned and you start into a loose discussion, right? And it's really loose. And you say, hey, listen, you know, you're just, you're kicking tires. Let's just use that term. Right. So, you know, but when this, when the talks start to get meaningful and you can start to see some progress, that's when you got a zero win and say, hey, listen, you know what? This doesn't get public. And if it does get public, you know, I'm out. And you and you have to establish that. You know, again, I talked. with Bob Ganey. I worked for Bob Ganey. He was like that. Lou Lamarillo was like that.

You know, Pierre Laquois was like that. I tried to carry out, carry out my business like that as well. I did make a big trade with Pierre Laquois. We acquired Chris Drury and Stefan Gell for Derek Morris in a trade just before the 2002 season. And, you know, but here's the interesting thing about Pierre is that we had started talking about that in February of that year. Pierre had phoned me and he, you know, and he phoned me. and he'd asked me about Derek Morris and we started talking. And then we start talking hypothetical.

And I just said, Pierre, if I'm going to even consider trading Derek Morris, I need a sentiment. He goes, what sentiment would you like? I said, well, if I'm trading, it's going to have to include Chris Drury. Oh, I'm not trading Chris Drury. And the dance began. The dance began. The dance began.

And we had, we had lunch together. We had dinner together over a periods of time at different points in time. And he would throw something at me. And I just kept forward. We just kept discussion with him. Nobody knew. And at the end of the day, he phoned me one day and he said, okay, you've been pretty clear about what you'd be looking for.

If I say yes, can we have the deal done. I mean, we made the trade in 48 hours. I mean, the different parameters that went with it. It was straightforward with Pierre. You know, you knew what he was doing. He knew what I wanted to do. You have to be straightforward because you're going to get flushed out real quick if you're not.

And I think that that's just the way. have to be. And if you're not, you know, direct and forthright and yes or no or yes, I'll consider that under these conditions, you're going to have a tough time making trades. And the other thing you don't want to do, like, there's a lot of names that end up in the news and everything. And I remember, I forget what, there might have been 02 after that trade deadline. And Denny Gochier, who was a flame and Craig Conroy, who he acquired the year before, they kept hearing their names and trade rooms. And I never disappeared around the team in the two, three weeks ahead of it. I always was in the dressing room down around.

I wanted them to see me. I didn't want them not to see me because then they start to think and start to worry what's he doing. Anyway, I told them, I said, my plan is not to trade you guys. I don't have any, like if something comes along the way, you know, you have to consider it. But I'm not looking to trade guys just so you know. Anyway, the trade deadline passes and we're playing in Philadelphia. and I see them before the game, they're getting their sticks ready long before. So what do you two guys doing here?

You go, what do you mean? I said, well, I thought you were being traded. I kept reading about you guys being traded. And they started a laugh, but I got some fantastic insight from both Denny and Craig about the feeling as a player. Craig had been traded the year before. He didn't assume anything. Denny was hearing about it.

You know, when your team isn't doing as well, you know, there's certain realities that come into play. But it was fascinating to hear their perspectives on how they felt and their families and everything that went with it. So I think that goes back to why you want to try to keep it in that silo. You know, when it gets serious, hey, you know, somebody phones me and goes, hey, were you talking to Sean? Were you talking to media? Somebody phoned you. Is it true?

You were talking about trading Sean? I said, there was a discussion about, you know, what a team was looking for. You don't lie. But at the same time, you know, you're not. You're not saying, yeah, we'll trade them. The media are good at their job. The media get information. So you don't want a media person to go down, you don't want them to go down a rabbit hole.

But at the same time, if you're protected the process, then you don't even have to worry about that. But calls all the time happen. And somebody will phone and go, oh, I heard you were inquiring about this player. Yeah, I was. And so shut down. But that's not a serious call. conversation. That's just kind of, hey, what would it take or something like that? Sure. You mentioned the kind of the human element here. And then obviously these guys,

these players, they're people first. And sometimes, you know, people have got other things going on in their lives. And I was, I was just writing something this morning that's going to go up later, about a trade in the 90s where a guy got traded days before his first child was due. And he got the call and you're going to, in his case, a totally different country. And I'm just looking around right now. We've never had a season like this. We've never had a deadline for this. How much does it enter your mind as a GM or can it enter your mind as a GM to be like,

you know what, these are people too? And they, you know, do you think about the circumstances that somebody might have going on in their life before you potentially make a phone call that's going to send them to a whole different city on very short notice and kind of turn their life upside down. I think you absolutely have to do that. I mean, number one, Sean and Ian, you deal with the players. And you understand, you know, that they're fantastic of what they do.

They're top performing athletes. But everything else that's going on, you know, they have the same fears and they have the same uncertainties in their lives, regardless of how good they are and their families. So you have to do that. I'll share a story with you. And it's, it's one of the, you know, one of the things with the influx. of news being able to be delivered so quickly. And I remember saying to the players, I said,

I want, if we're ever going to make a trade, I want you to hear it from me first. But that may not always be the case. So just so you know, but I'll try to be as quick as I can in trying to get to. There's certain things you just can't control, even with your best intentions. Corey Stillman had been a draft pick of the Calgary Flames.

and he was a good player. And we were looking to acquire a center back in that 2001 trade or down that stretch there. And I sat down with Corey and his wife, and they were talking about, you know, they were looking to should they put roots down in Calgary, should they not? And at this point in time,

we weren't looking to trade for a snowman at all. And I said, Corey, you've been here for this amount of time. Yeah, if you want to put down roots, put down roots. If you don't want to buy a house, you don't have to buy a house. I get it. But, you know, this can't be a precursor to say, yeah, go buy a house and I'll never trade you. But, you know, that's great. As Jim Plyfer, my good friend Jim Plyfer, always said, it's not sometimes what you say, it's what they hear.

Right. So, you know, so if you're encouraging somebody and then, you know, they get, then they're, then you trade them. And that came about. We traded them for Craig Conroy, a real good. player for a player that we needed up the middle of the ice. And I can understand why Corey and his wife Mara, geez, Craig, you know, you encourage us to buy a house, go do that, right? But that's the human element of it, too, right?

You're not, I wasn't looking to trade Corey Stillman. I wasn't saying like, hey, everybody, anybody interested in Corey Stillman, as the conversations went with the St. Louis Blues, that's where it was going to go. So my choice became yes or no on the trade. but you can never dismiss, you know, the conversations you've had with the player and in this case with his wife at the time and try to reassure them, hey, you know what? Like, you've been part of Calgary and you know what? Here's where we're at and here's where we stand. But things can change.

And one of the things I learned, Sean, is that when you're dealing with the players, you know, you're never going to make guarantees. You can say my intention is not to trade you. I'm not looking to trade you. But if something comes about that makes our team better, I'm absolutely going to consider it. Right. So that's, you know, that's my own personal example. We had one in Dallas. We had signed Bobby Erie as a free agent.

Bob Ganey had a, had a, had a rule. We're signing a free agent and trying to get, trying to get them to come to our organization. We're not trading them. Well, we ended up in a scenario where we were looking in 1998 to make a trade. and the New York Rangers were adamant that they wanted Bobby Ari. They were adamant. And we're sitting there going like that. So Bob went and sat down with Bobby Erie and told him,

here's where we're at. How do you feel? And I can't begin to tell you how great Bobby was. Bobby goes, hey, if this makes your team better and you think this makes your team better, you know what? I understand. This is what you've got to do. But the measure of respect that Bob had for Bob Erie,

Bob Ganey had for Bob Erie and for all players that was tremendous. And even though you might have to make decisions, Sean, I think the respect that you can show and demonstrate to the players is first and foremost, despite having to make some difficult decisions. Craig, as we kind of start to wrap up here, I got to ask you, you were part and you got to kind of, I guess, see the fruits of both sides of this trade. I think you were part of, I always think this is the most fair trade in the history of the NHL. Joe Newendike, the Dallas, Jerome McGinla, the Calgary. You drafted Jerome McGinler, right? You were part of the staff. So walk us through.

How did one of the most fair trades in NHL history shake down? I blame Ray Ferraro for this. Now you're probably scratching your heads going, what do you mean Ray Ferraro? So we had Mike Fadano. He was a superstar. But we're looking around and we're trying to improve our team. And we look to Colorado.

we go, oh, they got Sackick in Borsburg. And then we kind of glance over at Detroit, and they got Eisenman and Fedorov. And as good as Medano is, you can't do it by yourself. So we knew we had to get a good centerman to play. You know, if you could find somebody to play in front of Madonna, that would have been great. It wasn't possible, but somebody that could play behind them.

So that summer in 1995, you know, we had drafted Jerome and, well, the draft was a little bit late, but we really pursued Ray Faroe Hart. as a free agent. And he turned us down. I know it's hard to believe he turned down the Dallas story, but he did anyway. So now, but our pursuit of a sentiment didn't go away. And then Joe New and Dikes holdout in Dallas came about or Calgary came about.

And so now we weren't any less focused on finding a centerment. So we start to have the talks with Calgary. And I'll tell you what, like Al Coates was great. I was telling you about what it would take to get Derek Morris to Pierloquois. Al Coates was clear. Well, you want to talk about you, not Joe Nuda. You might have been talking about Jerome, my Danla. So that got, that got us scrunched up in the pince between us.

Listen, I'd like to tell you I knew Jerome was going to be a 600 goal score and a superstar. I'd be lying. But we knew Jerome was going to be a really good player and a power forward. And he was much more than that. So as we went down the path, down the path, it became clearer and clear as where our team was at, not only was this opportunity not going to come about again, but our team was going to suffer. So as we went down the path and we got to the point, I'll never forget it. Bob Ganey said to it, we're on a conference call.

Bob said, he goes, if we make this trade, it's going to really, really make our team better. But it's going to really hurt because we're giving up a good young blizzard. And if we don't make this trade, it's going to make our team really good in a year or two if we still do some other things. But it's going to really hurt not to have that sentiment behind Madonna. And he said, that's what it comes down to. So we were going to hurt. And we had a lot of good young players. And we felt that the time was to make that trade to acquire Joe Newadale.

And, you know, Al Coates was straight up about it, about what he needed in return. And you're right. and it worked out great. And, you know, Jerome McGinnla came within one win of winning the Stanley Cup in 2000, which would have been the ultimate win-win for both organizations. But that was ultimately it. And then I always tell Ray, because Gordon Miller always jokes. He goes, well, you would have never won without New and done.

I said, if we would have signed Ray, we would have still had Jerome. And I like our chances with Ray and Jerome. We won with Joe, but I like our chances with Ray and Jerome. And Ray always goes, ooh, that would have been pretty good. I said, you turned us down. We didn't turn you down. So it's all Ray Ferraro. Ray Ferraro is the guy that led us down that path.

But, you know, it was a tremendous, tremendous trade for Calgary. I mean, we know what Jerome meant to the flames and to the city of Calgary. And I'll tell you what, Joe came into our team. And it was instantaneous his impact on and off the ice. I love it. When the fans are back in the building, Ray Ferraro better be getting a standing ovation. every time he's between the benches there in Calgary. Yeah.

Yeah, he should, Sean. That's a really good point, right? And, you know, Ray was a great competitor. Les Jackson or assistant general manager coached him and junior. So we knew Ray, like there was really good knowledge on Ray, but, you know, and every player, you guys know, the goal of winning the Stanley Cup is first and foremost on their minds. But, you know, sometimes you just don't intersect with it. It doesn't mean you weren't good enough to win it.

Doesn't mean you didn't commit to winning it. sometimes it just doesn't come about. But for us, it came about. Jerome just missed it by a little bit. But Ray, I think Ray missed it too. He could have won it with us, with Jerome. I'll tell you, let me ask you this. The final question in wrapping up,

because obviously, Craig, you helped kind of construct that 04 Calgary team, but you had moved on. What was that feeling like watching games six and seven of that series against Tampa? Like, you must have been torn, right? Like, on one hand, you'd obviously love to see people win the cup, but on the other hand, you weren't there? Like, what's that like watching a team that you helped assemble be that successful?

Well, you know what? I mean, decisions get made and, you know, obviously, you know, they'd let me go. But at the same time, the quality of people in the organization was real high and real tremendous. So, you know, I never felt that rooting against, you know, so many tremendous people was something that was in my heart. And it never was. You know, I was covering the playoffs that year for TV. And, you know, I thought they'd won it on the Martangeloina play. You know, and then Marty St. Louis ends up winning in double overtime.

And then we went back down to Tampa Bay. So I am. I was at that point in time, I'm rooting for Calgary. I am. But when the game ended in game seven and Calgary had lost, It felt like a punch to the gut. I didn't think it would, I didn't think it would hit me like that. I remember sitting there and going, ooh, this hurts.

And then being down at the locker, being down in the dressing room area and seeing, you know, some of the players and some of the people involved with Calgary Flames, like you could really feel the hurt. On the other side, you know, Craig Ramsey was an assistant coach, one of my good friends. Harold Sador was on that team. Brad Lukowitz was on that on that Tampa Bay Lightning team. So you have this massive amount of conflict between the immense disappointment. But then you're so happy for people that are your friends that you've won with.

I mean, Darrell was a big part of our Stanley Cup team in Dallas. And Brad was part of our organization. So, you know, it was really kind of a roller coaster of emotions. But when that siren ended that game in, like I felt like I'd been punched in the gut. And I was not expecting that. Well, hey, listen, Craig, we really appreciate you dropping by here. And hey, look, we're looking forward to your coverage of the trade deadline on Monday on TSN with Ray Ferraro. I'm sure Ray will be a part of that.

But thanks so much for doing this, Craig. This was a lot of fun. My pleasure. And just one thing, if you don't hear me that much, blame it on James. It's because he didn't call on it. And see, he's got the ultimate control there. Everybody in a box and he can call on whoever he wants. What a run for Duffy here, too.

He's doing the Masters this weekend, right? He's doing master's coverage and then right into the trade deadline. But he's disappointed because he didn't get to go to Augusta. Yeah. He has to do it out of the studio. And he always likes to get into that lottery for the media to golf on the Monday. I don't know. I don't even know if you're having it this year.

But, you know, everybody tells you, I've never been to Augusta, but everybody tells you it's a, it's a very magical place. Yeah, amazing. Hey, listen, Craig again. Thanks, and we look forward to that coverage on Monday. Yeah, thank you guys. Thanks, Craig. All right, Sean, that was a really great conversation with Craig Button. And it is great. But when people like you and I, the only experience we have in trades is, you know, EA sports simulated trades or like you said, fantasy football trades. It's great to get somebody who is in the kind of the situation rooms and has firsthand knowledge like Craig Button. Yeah, that was that was a lot of fun.

and it's funny because it does sound a lot like the fantasy football trades. I know that that would drive every NHL GM crazy to hear somebody like me say that, but it does sound like there's at least a little bit of the same dynamic in play. You know, we had a lot of fun in last week's show talking about some April Fool stuff and different pranks and different things that have happened on the ice. And then we also talked about Roger Nielsen and some of the out-of-the-box thinking that he had in terms of rules. And we've got a couple of voicemails to get to. Sean, that our listeners have kind of in direct response to us talking about Roger Nielsen

and some of the things that he did as a head coach. So I'd like to dip into the voicemails here if we can. And this first one is I think this is kind of, let's say, this is pretty ingenious. By the way, you can drop us a voicemail, just like these listeners did. 845-4-5-4-5-8-4-9. Have a listen. How about this story about a goalie stick and kind of an ode to Roger Nielsen? Funny story about, I was listening to your episode released on April Fools about Roger Nielsen and goalie leaving a stick.

And when I was a freshman in high school, I'm a goalie and I had faked falling and I dropped my stick about slot. I pretended like I dropped it, intended to go back, but they went back to the bench. real Hollywood acting job and the team ended up icing the puck and hit my stick and didn't go in. We still ended up losing the team. But the coach on the other team, one of the assistant coached on the other team was Matt Cook. And in the handshake line, he came up to me and said, that was one of the effing dumbiest thing I've ever seen. One of the smartest things I've ever seen, too, and just kept going.

So I got to say, that's brilliant in terms of, that's some pretty good acting at the high school level. Yeah, if you can get away with it, and I mean, anybody, anybody who, Who's ever gotten a little too close to a crease knows that every goaltender is a natural-born actor. So I'm not surprised that he was able to pull that off. But yeah, that's, I like the twist ending on that. Anytime Matt Cook is telling you that you've done something greasy on the ice, that's, you know, you've really accomplished something. You know, as soon as I heard that voicemail, too, I thought.

So you know what Matt Cook used to do? This, like, just to give people an idea of Matt Cook off the ice is kind of like Matt Cook, on the ice, okay? So Matt Cook, let's say everybody was around Sidney Crosby for a scrum. Okay. So there's like six cameras and we're all pushing. Push it. Matt Cook and I don't know how maybe, I guess he must have been around TV camera. We played in Vancouver so he kind of knew how cameras work. He would go to the back of a camera, a cameraman's camera. And he knew how to like very subtly like unscrew a little piece of their transmitter so that they would lose audio. And he thought it was hilarious that we were in for Sidney Crosby.

And then the camera of him, I'm like, whoa, what happened to my audio? And it's like, wow, Matt Cook. That's a little hilarious practical joke. Just keep somebody from being able to do their job. I didn't know that Matt Cook had like those super spy skills, though. That's interesting. Yeah, the Matt Cook that you saw on the ice was just like the Matt Cook. off the ice. Okay.

Next, voicemail also has to do the goalie stick, Sean, but it's not about Roger Nielsen. It's a, well, a little bit related to that. Have a listen. Here's another goalie stick story coming our way. Listening to the pod, talking about Roger Nielsen and rules and whatnot,

and even though it's not a question, it's a reminder of a game I saw probably 10 years ago at Excel Energy Center where the visiting team's goaltender who escapes me at this point in time, took a slap shot off of the top of the stick. It broke a stick. He played with a half of stick for about 45 seconds

until there was a stoppage. And everybody was screaming for illegal stick. I guess goalies are allowed to play with broken sticks. Perfect question for our resident rules guru, down goes brown. Yes, right? Goleys can play with a broken stick, right? That is the exception to the broken stick rule

is that goalies are allowed to use one. I don't know exactly why that is. I would assume that, you know, the reason we have that broken stick rule for the skaters is it's a safety thing. You don't, a broken stick is potentially dangerous. We don't want them swinging that around at somebody's eye level. And I guess maybe the assumption is that goalies don't play with their stick that way, so it's okay.

But yeah, that is an exception. And I know this, it's funny the stuff that sticks with you. I remember when I was a little kid, I was watching TV with my dad and there was a trivia question. The trivia question was, in the NHL, can you score a goal with a broken stick? And I was very, very proud of myself that I knew the answer was, no, you can't score with a broken stick because you're not allowed to use a broken stick. You got to drop it right away. I was a little, even back then, I was a little rulebook nerd, and I knew that rule, and I was very, very proud of myself. And they came back after the break. And they announced that the answer to the

question was, yes, you can score a goal with a broken stick, but only if you're a goal tend to because only the goalies can use a broken stick. And I was just furious at that. I thought that was that loophole. That's dirty pool. It had, yeah, I had called my shot. I had guaranteed I had the question right. And they went and embarrassed me that way.

And I was, it's still, to this day, it sticks with me. But that's why I know that rule that the goalies are allowed to use a broken stick. Amazing. You know what? We're going to stick with the goalie team here, Sean, to wrap up our show, as we always do, with a little this week in hockey history. Okay. So I think if you're a big hockey fan, you probably know this story.

But even if you do know this story, it's worth retelling. We're going to take our listeners back to April 7, 1928. Okay. April 7, 1928, New York Rangers head coach, Lester Patrick. He's exactly my age right now, 44. Okay? So I'm thinking, yeah, a lot of times I wait. I don't know about you.

you're about the same age as me shot. Like, I'm sore all the time. Like, I'm waking up. I'm sore. I got a bad back. And, you know, Lester Patrick at the age of 44, he's coaching in the Stanley Cup finals. The Rangers goalie in this game against Montreal is Lauren Shabbat. Shabbat gets hurt in the game. Okay. During the game, the Rangers goalie gets hurt. But here's the twist. Their opponent, the Montreal Maroons, this is the time when teams didn't have a backup goalie and they're, right? The Montreal Maroons refused to allow the Rangers to use the kind of in-house emergency backup goalie. Then New York also said, can we use our minor league goalie? Montreal's like, nope, figure it out. Well, the Rangers finally decide, okay, well, I guess our only

chance here as we put in our coach who used to be a goalie back in the day. 44-year-old Lester Patrick puts on the pads and they beat Montreal in overtime. This has to be one of the most remarkable, unbelievable stories in hockey history.

I mean, first of all, that whole refusing the goalie thing, boy, I bet you last year's Leafs wish they had thought of that. That would have been the way to go. Yeah, and I remember, it's funny, I remember reading this story as a kid. It always showed up in in the, you know, weird hockey story books.

And it's funny as you're describing it because I always remember reading about it as like this Lester Pett, this old man going in, this like senior citizen. He's our age. He's our age. And I'm sitting there going, oh, I don't know about that. But yeah, I guess it was, yeah, it's an amazing story. The famous Patrick family. And, yeah, probably at least until, uh,

until we all met the Zamboni driver from the most famous emergency backup goalie story in NHL history. Well, it's funny that you mentioned that with Carolina because I'm thinking to myself, okay, if a current NHL coach had to jump into a game now, like 100% your answer is Rod Brindamore, right? Like, that guy is so weird, right? Like, who would be the best guy right now? It's Brindamore.

Although, see, I was trying to think of it. Are there any former goalies that are coaching right now? Like head coaches? No, I don't think so, right? I think there are. I think there are. There are last, right? Yeah, there don't seem to be a lot.

There's, there are GMs, right? Like Ken Holland was a goalie, Jim Rutherford, but it's not coaches. So yeah, I think, I think you got to go Brindamore is your answer on that one, although there'd be, you know, there'd be a few guys. Like, I wouldn't want to go near Craig Barubei's crease or Rick Tockett's for that matter if I was dealing with that. But, you know, the one guy I want to see, though.

Torts? And, you know, let me know if I can sell it to you. but we got to get Daryl Sutter in there for a shift, right? Like you're telling me, you wouldn't want to see like a goalie lifting up his, imagine you just flipped on the TV and you saw a goalie lift up his mask and go for the water bottle. And it was the Daryl Sutter face under that goalie mask. I mean, that'd be an all-time highlight, right? Oh, man.

So, okay, you get one shift of Daryl Sutter or one shift of John Totorella? Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like Sutter would be more fun because he'd, you know, Sutter would, would just be furious at the defense for even allowing a shot on gold, first of all. That's just not the Dural Sutter way. Cordarella, I don't, would we even get one shift or would he just bench himself halfway through because he didn't like his body language or something like that?

Just pin himself to the bench. Okay, one other this week in hockey history. Sean, you want to talk about wild finale's. I'd like you to explain to our listeners what on earth happened. It's the final day of the regular season, 1970. Okay? 1970, Montreal and New York. So the Rangers and the Canadians are fighting tooth and nail for the final playoff spot.

What happened here? Yeah, this is one of the craziest final days in NHL history. So it's the Canadians and Rangers are going down to the wire for the fourth and final playoff spot in the East Division, which is basically the original Sixth Division back then in those post-expansion days. and Montreal is a game ahead going into the final game. So the Rangers need to win. The Canadians need to lose.

And if that happens, it's going to come down to the tiebreaker. And back then, the tiebreaker is goals scored. Not goal differential or anything like that, but goals scored. So what it essentially comes down to going into the day is the Rangers know that they need to win. And they have to outscore Montreal by at least five goals. Well, they go and they hold up their end of the bargain. They win nine to five. They score nine goals to win their game.

And so then Montreal takes the ice knowing that they've got to win to make the playoffs, win and you're in. But if they lose, they've got to score at least five goals. Well, they're losing late in the game. It's three to two. They give up a couple goals. Now it's five to two. Now they know they're probably not going to win the game. So what they do is they pull their goaltender with most,

of the third period left because at this point they're just trying to score. They need to get to five goals. It doesn't matter how many goals to give up. Doesn't matter if they lose the game. They pulled the goalie and it was actually the right strategy. It was a smart strategy. It didn't work. They ended up

they did not score any more goals and they gave up five empty net goals which is remains an NHL record that will probably never be broken and they lose the game 10 to 2 and they end up missing the playoffs based on that goals score tiebreaker. the only time in something like almost a 50-year stretch

that the Montreal Canadians miss the playoffs. And here's the other thing about that. Like I said, they put all the original six teams in a division. So the Montreal Canadiens, it was a 76 game season back then. They finished tied with New York with 92 points. Here's what the West Division looked like. This is all the expansion teams in one division. West Division gets four playoffs spots.

St. Louis said 86 points. They make the playoffs. Pittsburgh Penguins have 64 points. They make the playoffs. North Stars, 60 points. They make the playoffs. And the Oakland Seals make the NHL playoffs with 58 points, while the Montreal Canadians with 92 points miss the playoffs.

In a league where eight teams made the playoffs, the Montreal Canadians finished tied for fourth and missed the playoffs for the only time in nearly half a century. And I figured you would love that because you're always a fan of maximum chaos. I don't know that we've ever had a regular season. season finale. We've seen some fun things. I think of Rangers and Flyers in 2010 going to a shootout to get that final playoff spot. I think that was kind of pretty cool. Like there's been some of those. I don't think we've ever seen anything like a team pulling their own goalie to try and

score five goals and then being outscored five nothing in the third period. No, nothing like that. And I've written about this before because every year when something comes, there's always some race and there's always some fan base that doesn't like the playoff format. They go, how come the NHL just can't get this right. Trust me, man. The NHL has a 100-year history of always having some bizarre, weird wrinkle in the playoff format that causes problems.

And this was yet another example, the fact that they had this weird tiebreaker and the fact that they put all the good teams in one division and gave them four playoff spots and all the bad teams in the other division and gave them four playoff spots. And you had this situation where Montreal finishes 30 plus points ahead of a team that gets a playoff spot that they don't get. Well, listen, this is, as always, Sean, it's been a lot of fun. We love to having Craig Button, love going down memory lane. Enjoy the weekend.

Enjoy kind of leading up to the trade deadline, and we'll do this again next week. Sounds good. All right. Hey, and just a little heads up for our listeners here. Coming up on Monday, I'll be helping out with a live stream on the Athletics YouTube page right around the NHL trade deadline. So we're going to start our coverage around 2 o'clock Eastern time, get you right through the deadline at 3.

We'll go for about 90 minutes or so. You can get it at the Athletics YouTube page. We'll have wall-to-wall coverage of the NHL trade deadline. And then we're going to post that show as a regular Athletic Show, Hockey Podcast, shortly after that live stream. And you can get that wherever you get your podcasts and a reminder that if you're not a subscriber with us, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show.