The Athletic Hockey Show - Traverse City Prospect Tournament breakdown, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

First, Max and Corey sit down together in Traverse City, Michigan at the 2021 Prospect Tournament and give their thoughts on how the first couple of games have gone so far, which prospects stood out, including Stanislav Svozil, Yegor Chinakhov, Nick Robertson, Kirill Tyutyayev, and Ty Dellandrea, how significant prospect tournaments are for NHL teams, and much more.Plus, the guys answer listener questions including which one NHL player they’d want to go on an adventure with, if the Florida Panthers have a legitimate shot at coming out of their powerhouse division, how the New York Rangers can utilize all of their prospects, and if Nils Lundkvist can be anywhere near as productive as Adam Fox, if any of the Chicago Blackhawks young defensemen can become impact players, and more.Save 50% on an annual subscription to The Athletic when you visit: http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pranman, back with another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series, and actually back with Corey Prondman for this episode. First one we've done in person together since the World Junior Summer Showcase. Once again, we are at a tournament, the Traverse City Prospect Tournament, live from Corey's hotel room, which is, as you might have guessed, much nicer than mine. Corey, how you feeling? I'm doing well, Max. I'm happy to be here. I haven't been at this tournament now in a couple of years. One of my favorite events to go to, and it's really exciting,

although I'll only be here shortly before we depart for Arizona. But I love this tournament, and visiting Traverse City in September is always just a beautiful city to visit around this time of year. Yeah, we had debate. Are we going to do this show? Because we got published on Fridays, and the tournament started on Thursday night. We've only really seen two games of this tournament so far. No, but there will be another episode. will be another episode. And so Corey will go to the Arizona tournament. I'll stay here in

Traverse City. And so when you hear from us next week, we'll be able to have probably more comprehensive thoughts on both tournaments. The tournament Corey is going to probably even the more star-studded tournaments. But for now, we can get into what we saw in the first day and we will. But at first kind of for people who aren't familiar, you want to talk a little bit about the background and the history of these prospect tournaments. What is the significance of them for NHL teams? I think for an HL teams, this gives them, you know, a good preliminary idea of their prospects heading into the main portion of their training camps. You know, not every team does this, but it's starting to become a trend where everyone wants to kind of get, you know, a cursory overview of guys before they start playing with the big team and competing in games, you know, you know, season in American League players for roster spots. And, you know, you see these tournaments have a lot of top prospects.

But they're also filled with a lot of American League signings, free agent invites, college free agents. You're trying to get an idea, okay, who's really in the mix, who's slated for the American League. This is a more little playing field for those guys. But also it creates a weird context when you're kind of watching these games because you're going to have sometimes 18-year-olds playing in the same games as 24, 25-year-old. year olds. And that could make it a more difficult thing from an evaluation perspective. It's not difficult, but you have to keep it in a contest when you're watching somebody score, somebody has a good game, and they're, you know what, a guy who played college

hockey last season and they're 23 years old versus the guy who was just coming straight out of his draft class as a junior. Those are the things that you have to balance, but it does help. You know, you see sometimes guys get signed out of these tournaments. Sometimes it helps a guy propel their way to being in a frontrunner to make an NHL team. So it's all part of the process. Yeah, I mean, in talking with teams last week for a story about the history of them, I mean, I can tell you what they value about these tournaments is the chance to evaluate their young guys against other teams young guys. It was kind of born out of when the Red Wings were good back in the late 90s, they would bring prospects to their training camp and they would have to evaluate.

those prospects against Steve Eisenhower and Nick Lutzrom. And that is a really hard way to figure out where your prospects are at. And so now this way you get to have your prospects playing against other teams, young prospects. They're not always the same age or the same level, to your point. Like there are plenty of tryout invitees here from the OHL who didn't play at all last season, who are 18 years old. There are some players who are, if not exactly my age, very close to my age on these

rosters too, who have been through all of college, some of whom who have played HL or even NHL games. it is not quite level, but I do think it's a good middle step between junior hockey and the American League. And realistically, every NHL team knows going into a training camp process, there's only a couple of guys who are realistically in the mix. And you kind of, and every now and then there's a surprise, but usually you know who those guys are. So if you're going into this camp process, you're looking at your couple of top prospects and you're using these high tournaments to get a first assessment of where these guys. are. Toronto wants to see where Nick Robertson is. Dallas wants to see where Ty Delandria and Thomas Harley is. Detroit wants to see where Valeno and Lucas Raymond and

Jonathan Bergran are and so on and so forth. And they'll keep watching them through the preseason, but this is all part of that process. Yeah, it sets the tone. And it also, as it's evolved, has come to be a rather one-stop shop scouting opportunity for teams. And so when you were at these rinks in Traverse cities, I'm sure some people listening out there, maybe are at this tournament right now or have been at the past. You will see a lot of people there. Last night, for instance, Kyle Dubus, Yarmokeke Kalainen, both there, watching their teams and the other teams as well. And so it gets you a chance to, in one place, over one long weekend, scout this year five teams, some years eight teams.

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I mean, this year's different than last year's for obvious reasons, but you used to have the two rings that would be side by side, kind of like a typical, you know, you go to a typical pee-wee or bantam tournament. That's how the setup is. the rings are kind of connected by a by a short hallway and the games would be staggered guys would be going in between games all the time in between periods and it would be rather chaotic with all the NHL people and yeah you'd have like just like typical fans sitting next to general managers sometimes and it's it creates a very it would be a very unique environment in that regard so since we are talking about the scouting side of it let's get right to that and what

we saw in the first two games now not to ask you to overreact exceptionally to the first two games but the first game we saw yesterday was Toronto and Columbus, not necessarily the most top prospect late in game, but a couple of guys, I mean, Cole Cillinger picking the first round this year, Igor Chinikov last year, Nick Robertson, been a pop-up prospect out of the second round over the last couple of seasons. What stood out to you in game one versus Columbus in Toronto? Yeah, I'll start with Columbus because I thought, you know,

I was obviously king of the 12th overall pick, Cole Cillinger. I don't think he was amazing, but I thought he was good. Like, you kind of saw like why he was where, you know, a 12th overall pick. Showed some good skill, you know, was involved in some scoring chances. The physicality stood out quite consistently, I thought. He was always kind of finishing his checks and showing that even as one of the youngest players in the overall tournament, he can go against older players, win battles, and not look overwhelmed in the physical aspect of the game. Skating still is what is with Cole.

It's never going to be his strength, but I think, I don't think you were blown away by him. I thought he did what he needed to do there. to show, you know, why he was a high first round pick. For Columbus, I really liked Stan Svogel in that first game. The third round pick, defenseman of the Czech Republic. You know, is he going to be like a dynamic offensive type? That's the kind of the question, but I thought the feet looked good. I've had some scouts point that out to me as an issue during his draft year.

They thought it was overall. Pace wasn't the best why he went in the third round, but I thought the feet looked, you know, not amazing, but they look fluid. Yeah, it looked good, good. Like, he was able to use his skating to his... escape pressure. He's able to make, you know, some cue plays off the blue lined, you know, to create offense, showed some, you know, some speed, create controlled exits and entries, you know, move the puck well, didn't, wasn't getting walked defensively. He looked good. Like, I think he looked like a guy you're watching that. You're saying, hey, you know, he's got a, he's got a legitimate

chance to play in NHL games. So he's going to be a third pair, second pair, you know, time will tell. But I thought he looked good. Chinikov scored a goal, you know, which is what he is. You know, he's a goal score, skill guy. His pace is kind of the one thing with me that I still have some concerns about, but you know, there is offense, particularly when he gets inside the offensive zone and the game slows down a little bit, particularly on the power play. He's really dangerous, I thought. You know, will he have enough pace in this game to make the blue jackets at a camp?

I think that's going to be the question for him going through the preseason process. Yeah, I mean, this is the first time I've seen Chinikov live, and so I was interested to see the skating as well. I tend to agree. I think the north-south is the problem, but because I think his edges are pretty fine, you know, and I think when he is in the offensive zone for that reason, you're going to see him be able to kind of pivot a little bit and use his feet to a productive way in a way that I'm not sure he's going to ever be the most dominant player off the rush if he makes the NHL or

when he makes the NHL. But I do think as a scorer, it's still useful to have that kind of in tight edge work that that can allow you to find a little bit of space. And he did well in the KHL for a teenager, so you think that there is probably some pace elements in his game that you usually don't see guys score like he did at 19 in the KHL. If, presuming, given that he's not even that big, given that if they don't at least have some pace in their game.

I see some flashes of that from him when I watch. It's just not consistent, I find. And so, yes, you know, we'll see how his can go. I would presume he's on the bubble to make Columbus, but we'll see what has. happens through the camp process. The other side of the ice, he had Toronto, and I think Nick Robertson kind of the headliner over there.

And I thought he looked in control for a lot of the game. Early he had a really dangerous, I mean, a goal that he set up off the Russian and off the wing on a, I think it was a backhand saucer pass that he made. It was a really nice play. And I think you could tell that Nick Robertson was what you look for a really good prospect to be at this tournament, which is he just looks a little different than the other guys on the ice. Yeah, really skilled, really competitive.

You know, still kind of a little bit of a funky skater, but I thought the, it didn't look like he was slower behind the pace kind of thing. I thought his pace was more than fine at that level, just really involved in the offense. You know, given that he is, you know, 5-9 and not, you know, a blazer, that's going to be the question I think for him going into camp is, you know, is there a top nine spot for him to take? Or more likely, you know, does he start in the American League

and is he like a first injury call-up option? That's kind of where I lean with him. And yes, I would say, You know, he's the clear guy to watch from this group. There's some other guys, like, you know, Abramov's got a chance. Gogh, I think,'s got a chance to play. And some of their, you know, their team is a lot of, like, free agent invites and lower round picks that are long shots.

But, yeah, like, Robertson is the guy that if you're a Toronto fan, you're monitoring very closely to see just how close does he look. And even though he's probably not going to make the team, how nervous does he make some of those veterans? Goglov, by the way, is a player who kind of exemplifies what this tournament could be. He came as an invitee with the Red Wings in 2018 undrafted. He shows reasonably well there. It goes back.

He's very good in the OHL for two years. Ends up getting a contract from Toronto who, I don't remember if Toronto was playing in that tournament or if they came the year after. But certainly they would have been aware that Gogolov was at that tournament here. So an example of what these tryout guys, what can happen for them eventually. I've seen guys go to this tournament with one team and get signed to a contract by another team. Right. Because I think that happened with Sergey Tolchinsky, I think, the one year. I forgot the exact context.

But, yeah, I've seen that happen before. Yeah, and I think especially for the OHL kids here, like, that's what you're hoping for. When you come to this tournament, the kids had barely didn't play at all last year. And so now you come here and you're hoping that you can show something. But just to wrap on Robertson, you made the point about the top nine spot. And what I think did stand out about Robertson as well is that he's a high compete player. He is all in. I don't know if you want him penalty killing, but could you see him in an energy role?

I think he can be, he's competitive. I think he can even be like a little reckless sometimes, to be quite honest. I think you always see whenever I watch Nick, he's fearless in how he goes to the middle of the ice. Like he'll make all kinds of little toe drag plays to create space for himself in the middle. He doesn't get shy from going to the next. net. So, you know, I do like him. I guess that kind of goes to, you know, traditional roster building philosophies is, can you have a guy on your team who is not a regular on the penalty kill or the power play? I don't know if that's 21-year-old Dick Robertson's

killing penalties for the Toronto Maple Leafs, maybe when he's 23, 24, 25 he is. So that's kind of where I think the debate is because I think his strength, I think he's competitive, but his strength is clearly on the skill goal scoring front. Yeah, I think that's a fair, Fair way to put it. The second game, Detroit and Dallas, a little more prospect heavy. You get into some of the guys that we saw in this year's draft. You get into Logan Stankovan. You get into Wyatt Johnson, tied to Landria still at this tournament. Joe Villeneau still at this tournament. Those guys are veterans of it by now. Lucas Raymond and Jonathan Berger and make their debuts. But the guy who I thought had the best game of all of the Red Wings prospects might have been a seventh round pick overager at the time in

2019, Kiral Tucciov. Yeah, no, he was, to say he was surprising would be an understatement just because I watched him when he was in Russia. He didn't play Russia last year. He played Billberts, when he played in Russia, I watched him when he played in Russia. I thought just that dime a dozen small skill. A guy doesn't skate that well. And no, I mean, he was arguably the best player on the ice on a, yeah, he said in a game

full of first and second round picks. Look like, like he's got skill. What's out to me was the motor. I thought the motor looked really good. You kind of even saw it. I like, you know, he played. played hard. I thought like on the last scoring plate was involved in where he kind of took the puck. Hard drive to the far post. She showed no fear kind of going up against bigger defensemen

to take a hit and to create a scoring chance. I like that because because he's 5-9 and not a blazer, you're going to need that element to even have a puncher's chance to play in the national hockey league. And so he's intriguing. He wasn't really on my radar as an NHL prospect. Now I think you watch him if he maintains his even level kind of close. You know, you kind of see. how he does in the American League. And I think at the minimum, from one game, he's made me say, I got at least circle back on this guy. Is he going to play in the NHL?

You know, time will tell. I also thought, just to add to your point, the instincts was what popped to me. I mean, there was, you know, obviously, like you said, the hard drive to the NAD, but also he had to play, I think it was Detroit's second goal that he got to a loose puck, which, you know, speaks to the motor a little bit, but then curled and found a seam really quickly that set up a... He forced that turnover, too, I thought. Yeah, yeah.

Absolute great A that Chase Pearson Berries for a goal. And there was another couple passes as the game went on where I was like, all right, he's thinking the game, he's seeing it out there. Yeah, I think from what I saw there, he definitely looks like an American League guy.

Yeah. Like, I think he should be able to hold his own down there with no question. NHL because of the skating, that's the question. Yeah. And, you know, I think he's got up, he's going to be the kind of guy is going to go down in the American League,

play really well, leave no doubts, and then maybe he takes the step. We'll see how a season goes. Yeah, one game does not make a prospect. He might go the rest of this. I mean, there's two more games for Detroit. He might not score either of them, might not have a point in either of them,

and then, you know, what do you do with that? But you'll watch how he plays, and if he continues to impact the game and show what he's shown, then a really nice start to his North American career over here. What do you think of that first line with, like, Valeno Berger and Raymond? I thought they obviously, they had a really part in two goals. Yeah. But, like, given what I know about those players, I expected them to, like, kind of dominate puck possession.

They should be the best line at the tournament, and I didn't think they were the best line last night for their own. own team and I thought Dallas had you know Dallas was probably the better team last night. Oh yeah. The Dallas was dominated possession for stretches there. They scored. So like that's that's a big thing. But, you know, yeah, I agree with you.

I thought they underwhelmed their talent. Now, Lucas Raymond's playing his first game in seven months. I thought like Raymond looked like he was having the biggest adjustment there of the three guys. Like just because he's a pure skill playmaking type. He's a good competitor. but like he he's not that big and he's never like been like the most you know blazing fast skater and I thought versus the the big guys on the on the small ice people were closing on him really fast and he wasn't making like that split second adjustments and I think with time he will but I thought

he kind of showed there was a little bit of a learning curve there and he even said like getting his legs back took him like it was a hard game on the legs for the first game off in a while and I think that showed like you didn't see him take anybody wide really he was more if if someone was closing on him. He was going to chip that puck deep. Yeah, he wasn't doing the things that make Lucas Raymond successful. He wasn't putting pucks through legs. He wasn't creating, you know, chances for his teammates. It just was an average game, but it's only one game. I'm sure he'll be excellent. He did score. His goal was a very nice goal, hard one-timer off the rush, and he actually had another play that he tried.

And his shot's a really interesting element of his game. It's developed. Yeah, I find, like, from where I saw him when he was 15, 16, to where he is now, it compliments the playmaking really well. He did have a play that he tried to make to Bergrand where he was driving the net and he tried to just kind of leave a pass for Berger to come get and finish and it didn't convert. But I do think that's the kind of kind of crafty play that you want to see from Lucas Raymond. That one didn't work. We'll see if more do as it goes on. When's the defenseman, Sabango, McIsaac. I thought like both of them were steady. Yeah. Because they're both six-one-ish defensemen who can skate and make outlet passes.

That's right. That's both what they are. I don't think you're expecting big-time offense out of either of them. I thought they both, they both did the job. Don't think they were bad or great. Yeah, they both look like they absolutely belong. I mean, these are two guys who we expect to see in the American League playing a decent role all year. And I think that's what they look like right now. Both guys, I mean, McIsaac in particular, you're really interested to see how this year goes from. He's missed so much time the last two years.

Surgery is on both shoulders. And so I think for him, job number one here is get through this tournament and this preseason. intact and kind of get your your bearings back for physical hockey because Woodman McIsaac is playing his game yeah he had two-way defense him he also can be a really physical defenseman and so for a guy who's had those injuries

I do think that would be a big thing for him this preseason just to reestablish the physical person he's not huge but I think he's 6-1 and he wants to take the body yeah I think they're both good players I'm not sure if they're amazing players but I think they're good players yeah no I think that's totally fair On the Dallas side of things, I do think Ty DeLandria is looking more and more like a guy who's who can push for an NHL job.

The goals in this game more so Riley Tufti, I think had two of them. But Delandria's battle, I mean, he looks like a pro hockey player to me. Yeah, he's 6.1, 6.1 and a half. Could skater, he's a worker. There is, I don't know if you're ever going to see a guy who's like a truly dynamic offensive type, but there is skill in his game, I think. he's got enough vision, enough of a shot where you can see him, you know,

put up some points in the National Hockey League. I think it's, you know, I got to imagine he's playing a lot of games with the stars this season. I don't know how many it's going to be. I don't know what the role is going to be, but he looks like an NHL player, kind of like you said.

I thought Bork, the other, I don't think Bork's an NHL player. Yeah, he's going to take a couple more years because of the size in his speech, but I thought he made a lot of plays in that game. I thought in just general of their team was impressive.

I liked, I liked Borg, I liked Damiani, Stankovin. Stankovin had a PK shift that was blown away by, like the pressure he put on. His,

he's, he's really competitive. Like, he's got a motor that I think, even though he, then the feet are not naturally fluid, it makes him look a little faster than he actually is.

You know, I thought he, he played well. I like the Grushnikov kid, who this was his first competitive game in like a year and a half. I thought he held, It wasn't amazing.

I thought he held his own, though. Those are the 6-2 mobile defensemen with some two-way ability. You know, like I mentioned, Tufti, one of the older guys. He scored two goals. He's impressive. He's big and he can skate. Does it work at higher levels? Those are still the questions I think he needs to answer.

You know, I like Y Johnson a lot. I thought he was kind of quiet, though, in that game. He didn't score, but it was not the strongest goal of the night, I would say. Yes, it was like, to those who didn't watch, it was like a long-range shot that the... should not have gone in. The Detroit goalie Bratstrom kind of flubbed on. Yes. And I really like this player, but Thomas Harley had a rough night.

Like, it was just, it. And that happens sometimes. And I, you know, it's, you don't want to pick on the guy because I think he's an excellent prospect, big, mobile, moves the puck well. I think there's going to be, I think he's going to be a really good two-way defense when he reaches the National Hockey League and his plan. And, uh, uh, whenever that is. But yeah, he's had a tough night. a lot of turnovers, lost some battles down in the D zone that led to grade A scoring chances. He has some of those times where his heartbeat can be a little bit low and he makes those errors.

But I also think there are times when you have a defenseman like that, not just in this game and in general with Harley, who just wherever he goes, he just plays a ton. He played a ton in Texas last year. He played a ton in the OHL. World Juniors, he plays big minutes. And I think when you just play that much as a defenseman, your mistakes get magnified, because it's hard to play that many shifts and not actually make errors, even though I feel like his can sometimes be amplified a little bit too much.

And we mentioned, you know, Dallas probably deserved better in this game for what the run of play was. That partly probably a night that Adam Sheel will be ready to forget fairly quickly. Yeah, Schill's going to the American League probably. I don't think he's an NHL goalie, but, you know, he was good enough in college where I don't think this was, I don't think this game was indicative of what he is, but he had a tough night. And I think the quickness in his feet are, if I would have been an issue, he kind of got beat a lot when he had to move across the crease. But we'll see. Yeah, but I thought in general, though, Dallas did play well.

And there was a lot of guys were not even mentoring, like guys like Peterson, guys like Stranges, you know, who did some things throughout the game. That at least were intriguing. Yeah. St. Louis didn't play on night one, and I don't want to shortchange blues fans here. Do we want to just give a little bit of a preview for the tournament for them? I mean, the guys to kind of watch here, you're probably looking at Jake Neighbors, Zach Bullduke. I think Bulldoog got hurt. I'm not sure if he's going to play.

I remember I was not saying about the injury. I'm really intrigued to say Jake Neighbors. He was so good last year in Edmonton. Even because I think there was always like the kind of the question, is Genther carrying neighbors or his neighbors carrying Genther, but then Genther leaves for the U-18s and neighbors' strong play continues. You know, I think with, I don't know if he's going to be, you know, a high echelon in HL player, but I think he got everything except to skate. He's got skill, hockey sense. He's competitive. He can shoot it.

I think he's a really, I can see him become a really strong top nine winger in the NHL. And I think, you know, he's definitely in the mixed, I think, to be part of Canada's under 20 team. So, yeah, he's a guy. I'm excited to see here. All right, Corey. Now let's get to the mailbag. And we've got some fun ones today. Actually, a really fun one to start off with from Mark Savvy, who says one NHL player

knocks on your door and says let's go on an adventure who do you want that player to be that was an interesting question um probably should have thought of that one a little bit more before you asked it i've always been you know the one the guy whose personality in the league is always endeared to me not because i think he goes on fun adventures but i just i would always want to we'd always want to me and grab a cup of coffee with would be flurry i just i've always found his personality be so like so infectious. I feel like he'd be just be a person. I'd love to just like, you know, get a coffee or a lunch with kind of thing and get to know. Because everybody I know who's ever met him and graduated with him has nothing but amazing things to say about that person. Yeah, I don't know

that I am the most adventurous person that I know. So I'm not going to go the route here of like saying like a Brent Burns who I think would would probably be the most memorable adventure. But I'm not sure that I would cherish those memories in the same way that a lot of others out there in the world I actually, I really enjoy Gabriel Landiscag and what I've dealt with him so far covering the league. I think he seems like my kind of guy, the kind of person that you would not mind spending 14 hours in a car with, the kind of person you would not mind having an issue that needs to be solved. And I've heard that about Gabe for a very long time, even like dating back to his draft year, everybody would always say like, you know, you watch him and the skill doesn't pop out to you,

but he works so hard. And when you talk to this kid, like you're just blown over. away by how mature, intelligent he is. And that's what I've been hearing about him since he was like 17 years old. Yeah, put it this way. If I was going to miss a flight with any NHL player that I've covered and have to deal with the ensuing stress, Gabe Blanisog is at the top of that list. And as Corey can attest, I am not the most on-time person that any of you know.

So that's a pretty big decision-making factor for me. So I'll say Gabe Landis-Skagg. next question is from amir C do the panthers have a legitimate shot at coming out of their powerhouse division I think that the roster is good for see if at blanche's healthy now like I think that's a roster that can be competitive with those other teams the question of them had the last year so it's just been the goaltending yeah you know and I think that's a I'm not ready to say that she's been solved yet I really I love Spencer night um what like you know but he's also he was just 19 last he's going to be 20 this season. It's been like five any jockey. Yeah. And I think even he admitted as much, like, you know, by no means is he just, is he the guy

right now? Is he ready to like, you know, step in and be like a, you know, a top 20 starting goal in the National Hockey League? You know, there's probably going to be some bumps along the way there. And I don't think they're ready to just say Bobrovsky's done just quite yet. So I think that's that dynamic between Bobrovsky and Knight is going to be really, is going to be the variable there. on whether they can, you know, kind of, you know, be a top three seed in that, in that division.

But if they even get, like, average goaltending, I think they got a real chance. They pushed Tampa last year, and they did that without their best player in Erin Neckblatt. I mean, I guess Barkhouse probably the best player. One of their best players in Aaron Neckblad. Although Tampa didn't have Kuturov, too. Details, details. But yes, you're right. But they still hung tight with the team that won the Stanley Cup, I guess, being my point, right?

Yeah. No, Kooch was back for that series, wasn't he? First one of the playoffs? But they meant like in the seeding. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They pushed them in the playoffs too. And so they might have been the higher seed in that series. I don't remember.

They were, actually. Yeah, and so, like, I mean, they did really well last year. Now, does Anton Lindell, is he coming over this current year? Yeah, and I think, I don't know how many roster spots they have. It's going to be between Lendell or Densenko, I think, who'll get that last spot. Two very different kinds of players. Lendell is more of a two-way guy, Denesenko, dynamic, scoring winger. Lundell's a center.

So we'll see. I actually liked Owen Tippett last season, too. I thought, like, that wasn't amazing, but I thought he was, he held his own, looked like, you know, looked like he belonged in that league. So you have those two guys coming in to compliment with Tippett. And, yeah, but I think, I don't think scoring is their issue. I think they scored a lot of goals last season. It's just going to be, can they stop?

Can they stop the puck going into their own net? And, you know, I think that the defense unit is fine in that regard. It's a pretty mean, deep court, too. I mean, you look at Goudis and McKenzie Wiegars is a, is a, tough player to play against. He had a really big year coming into his own. Yeah, he did. But,

Exblat is the guy. He's the guy there. And, yeah, they just need Bobrovsky slash Knight just to be okay. They don't need it. They don't need to be great. They don't have a combined like 918, safe percentage on that team. If their, if their save percentage is even like 912, 913 combined, I think that skater group is good enough to be to get a top three seat.

I like it. NYR Marine, which drafted OHL prospects that completely missed. last season, do you expect to have notable season? I assume he's not just meaning 2021 eligible. So anyone who was in the O'HL who didn't play last year? Yeah, like, you know, you got like the top guys, the first rounders. Like you expect guys like, you know, like Clark, like Brennan, Offman, McTavish, Wyatt Johnson, particularly, who didn't play at all last year.

Those other guys had some of Europe games. Johnson didn't play at all. I think he could have a really big year in Windsor. I look at a guy, one guy comes to mind for me because I think Tyson Forster will, like, will be in the American League, if I had to guess, is I think one guy would be Luca Vagelista, who played a couple of American League games. He didn't really excel at the American League level, a national second round pick. I think that's a guy, you know, presuming he goes back and plays with London that will have a,

you know, will be a really significant player. Just, you know, how good an NHL player he is with his foot speed is still kind of the question of me, but I think he's got a lot of skill, he's got hockey sense, he's competitive, he can score. I think that's a guy who I wouldn't shock me if he has, you know, 80, 90, 95 points this season, depending on if he goes to the world juniors or not. Next one I'm going to kind of double up on you because there's two that fit the same theme. And that first one is from John, how do you possibly fit all the Rangers prospects into that lineup and or decide who to trade from them?

And then Peter Clutche, if you were Steve Iserman, how would you deal with the surplus of defense prospects, especially on the left side of the pipeline? Do you stash them in Europe for longer than you otherwise might? We try to bond them together in a trade package. I will say, as somebody who covers the Red Wings, the crop for the Rangers D prospects in particular is of a higher overall caliber than the Red Wings there, but it does get at a similar theme here.

Yeah, it does. And I will say from all my years of covering hockey, talking to NHL people, I've never had one NHL person saying, me, Corey, we have too many good players. You know, like, I just don't know what we're going to do with all of them. You know, that I don't think, in my experience, those quote unquote problems

usually sort themselves out because not every prospect hits and sometimes the guys you think won't hit hit and these things typically will even out and if you really get to a point where you have way too many actually really good players then you can deal from

a position of strength kind of thing you kind of saw I know for example when Nashville had you know they had somebody they had you know the Ellis and Seth Jones and you know and Gerard and Atcombe and Dante Fabro, you know,

then they made a play to go Johansson. So, you know, you can always do something like that. But I think you want to make sure you get to that point first before you start thinking three moves ahead because a lot of those guys either won't do it or they'll do it, but it'll take a lot of time. I will say the Rangers are actually getting kind of close to that point here because you're now at the point.

Now, Brin Schneider hasn't arrived yet Nose Lunkus hasn't arrived, yet Zach Jones has really just stepped foot in the NHL. Yeah, but they're farther along. Yeah, Lunkfist, you can see playing games this year. I think Jones could play games this year. Schneider, I can see him play a year in the American League, but the year after, I think you'll start making some hard decisions. And, you know, it's a good position to be in.

But I think you just let their play, like, dictate it to you. And there are three different kinds of players. Yes. Not different. I think Jones and Lunkfuss actually are kind of similar, but Schneider's different than those other two. A little bit more big, hard to play against those two have a little bit more off. defense.

So I think you kind of let their play dictate to you, you know, what their trade value are, where they fit in your team, and then you can make a move accordingly. But I wouldn't be rushing to trade a really good prospect just yet until you, I say you need a little bit more information, particularly at the NHL level on how those guys look. Now, here's something that fascinates me is I spent a little too much time on Twitter, like many of you listening, I'm sure, in the discourse around a Jack Eichel trade, which the New York Rangers are permanently involved in. Sure.

whether they want to be or not. Fans will often say, no, no, no, this guy needs to be untouchable in this trade. How many non-Adam Fox defensemen in the New York Rangers system can be untouchable in a Jack Eichael trade? Can't really think of anyone else other than him. I don't think so. And I think Keontre had a fantastic season last year,

but Jack Eichel is... Jack Eichael. Yeah, he's healthy, which is like the big, like, asterisk next to any proposal with him because that seems to be a question that is still not yet been answered or shown any way to be answered at this stage. You know, I love, you know, Gianni, you know, he had a great year. It looks like, you know, big, mobile physical defenseman with,

who showed more offense than I thought he was going to as a rookie pro. But Jack Eichols, you know, could be a, when he's healthy and he's playing well, he's top five, seven center in the league. Like, you know, those guys are not easy to find. so I can't think of anyone really now there's probably like any trade there probably reaches a point where yeah it gets it gets yeah if you get into a point where it's kandre and a billion first-round picks or whatever then you're going to say come on now but I'm sure he's probably the next guy up that you want to protect but I tend to agree it's like it at some point part of what it comes when you have this depth is I think people want to trade the guys at the bottom of the depth but their depth really allows you to trade guys more in the middle to upper middle yeah and fill yeah I would say whatever I'm I think whenever I talk to initial people and they read the online discourse around these kind of things, not just the Eichol trade just in general.

I think they kind of say, like, I think fans sometimes don't realize you've got a gift to get sometimes. And that would be the case. And, you know, Jack Eichol's a premium player in the National Hockey League. And if you want them, you're going to, there's going to be some pain to get them. That's just the reality. Just to tie the ball on this question on the Red Wing side of things for Peter's question, the Red Wing side is a little different. Like you do have these, especially on the left side.

We talked about two of them, Sabrango and Mackay. You've also got Albert Johansson, Emil Viro, obviously the top of this pool is Simon Edvincent. Yeah, exactly. He's the guy that kind of you're thinking, okay, this guy definitely projects that. Right, but he sets the bar. He sets the bar. You know, if he's a legitimate, you know, one LD, you have spots. If he's only a two, like, let's say he's number three, French two type.

Then it's a crowded bottom four of the D. Yeah. Then like where does, where does Sobrango, McIsaac, Viro, you know, Johansson, et cetera, whatever, Wollander, whoever else might have a chance. Like, yeah, you start. are the questions become tougher. So, you know, where guys, like how a guy like Evanson pans out will dictate that. Because I think a lot of those guys are good players.

Are they excellent players? Time will tell. And that's kind of, you know, a similar theme, you know, I kind of, you say is you get 10 of these guys. And if I say their average projection is the third round, you know, defensemen, some will become second. Some won't play. Maybe you hope one becomes like a stud and becomes like a true, like top two, top three D in your lineup. but you just try and get a lot of these guys and whether it's them or whether it's a shy boeum we didn't even we didn't mention you just hope like one of those guys and bollum has the potential i think to be a top 4d

uh yeah yeah exactly for different reasons but uh yeah no you just kind of get the approaches you just get a lot of these guys when you're when you're rebuilding which is what the rangers have done through much different way than how detroit has done it but uh you just got to get a lot of these guys and you hope the odds even out and and and and as time goes on, you hope that they, that they progress enough to give you real value. All right. Back at it. Peter G.

asks, can any of the Blackhawks plethora of young defensemen become an impact player? So this pool he's talking about Flassick, Alex Flassick, obviously, Wyatt Kaiser, Wyatt Callanick, Ian Mitchell, Nick Bodan, Alec, or who is Allen? I don't know, Alan. Nolan Allen. Nolan Allen. Sorry, Nolan Allen. Their first round pick from this summer.

Double sorry, Nolan Allen. I was not, I had a lot going on that night, nothing personal. It's okay, it's okay. A lot of people didn't remember what that pick was because it was right after the might you pick. Ah, oh, that'll do it too. Yeah, no, I guess it depends what you mean by Impact Player. Yeah. Let's see top four.

Yeah, I think Vlasch got a chance. I'm not sure if he's actually going to do it, but I see, anytime you got like, what are you going to do it? He's like, 6, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, skates good enough for a guy that's size. Like, there is some, there is some quickness, in his feet. The question is just on him is how much offense is there? I think there is just enough to where he's got a shot to do that. And I think, so he would be the one I would highlight from that group.

I think you could talk to some scouts who really like Kaiser. I'm not quite there yet because I think he was good at the showcase. Yeah, he's a really good skater. He's competitive. I also feel there's an offense question, but I think with Vlasic, because he is just such a big guy. and he also skates well. I think there's just more pro-projection there,

a better chance to become a good player. With Kaiser, 6-0, not really that offensive. Like, the skating in the defending needs to be just so excellent. And I think he was really good at Duluth last season. But, but he could, the defending might just be that good. But I think he's got to just,

it's going to be harder, I think, for him become, like, a true, like, top of the lineup kind of guy. I think guys, like, of Lashik has a better chance. I do like Ian Mitchell still. I could buy it. He's closer. Obviously, he played in the National Hockey League last season. He would be him and Bowden, both smart puck movers, Mitchell a little bit better of a skater.

Bowden's got a little bit more offense. I'm not sure I'm ready to say any of them are going to for sure be that, but those kind of made those three guys. Maybe four of you include Kai's would be the ones that come to mind. Here's my follow-up here. How bad does Chicago need one of them to become a top-four defense? Because you had a young guy in Bochfus that you trade away. and you get Seth Jones, obviously Seth Jones is the top 4D. And Volfus wasn't really, like, popping.

Like, you know, I still think he's going to be a second pair of defenseman, like, play power play, but he was like a 5-10, 5-11 defenseman who was a good, not great skater, and couldn't defend well. So, like, he was not, like, I thought he was going to be a good NHL player, but he wasn't going to be a great one. But now, yeah, to your point, there's no clear next guy. Like, I like Nolan. I think he's going to play in the National Hockey League,

but there's no, you're waiting for a guy to really elevate. And I haven't seen a guy. You've seen like Mitchell, Bowden and Flashes have some good stretches, but there's no guy that's consistently elevated yet the last couple of years. I think you look at their NHL roster, and you've got guys that you're perfectly comfortable with his NHL defenseman there. Calvin DeHan, Connor Murphy, Jake McCabe. You're perfectly comfortable with all those guys in your lineup.

Seth Jones. Obviously, but he accepted. He's the D. and then I'm saying behind him, right? So you're perfectly comfortable with those other three as regular. Yeah, some of those other guys, I can see them plugging in like four to six types. Right. Yeah, but in terms of PKers.

Yeah, high echelon guys. Some guys have chances, but they're more like outside chances, I would say. Yeah. All right. Moving on to the next one, we probably should just tie this into the Rangers conversation. Charger J. Do you think Nils Lunkwist has a chance to be nearly as productive as Adam Fox? He just keeps getting better and better, and his intelligence really sticks out to me.

Now, before you answer this, here's what I'm going to say about Nils Lunkwist is that, you know, the productive and as good as Adam Fox are different questions, right? Like, Adam Fox won the Norris Trophy this year. He did score. He was productive. Yeah. But a big part of it is Adam Fox is a really good defender too. Yeah. Like, I would, yeah, we're not going to pick on him and get to the heart of that, uh, get to the heart of that question.

So I don't think we, I think, you know, reasonably not going to say Niels Lumpfus is going to win the Norris trophy. But, but, like, but I think Niels Lumpfus has continued to progress really, really well the last couple of years. years. You know, there were doubts that Adam Fox, his entire amateur career, when it was NGDP, even through his first couple of college years. You know, there were doubters on whether it was going to work in the national hockey league. Obviously, it did, and, you know, in a huge way. And I think with Lunkfist, there's been less doubts because he is a good skater.

That was the question with Fox was the skating. I think Lungfis could definitely be a good topboard offenseman. I mean, the hockey sense is excellent. He is a strong enough skater. He can shoot the puck. more offensive than defensive, but I think he can defend just okay enough to do what he needs to do to be successful.

Yeah, I don't think he's taking the PP1 job away from Adam. And that's a big part of production. Yeah, I don't think he's doing that anytime soon. I don't think any of those guys are doing it. I think Jones is a really good offensive player too, but he's not doing that either. Keondre definitely is not doing it. Like, you know, is...

I think Neals can definitely be a big piece of the puzzle there in helping them become a... a good team. What I will say about Lungvest is best under 20 SHL scoring season ever on his resume. Yeah. And so when you're talking purely production, like now, could you see a world where He has office. I think the hockey sense. The vision is really good and he can shoot the puck. So I definitely think he's a power play on the actual hockey. I just don't know if he's PP1 on that team. Well, so here's what I'll say about that though. So I agree with you, like who on Earth is going to take the North Trophy winner's job. But if you were the Rangers and you're looking at Adam Fox playing 25

minutes a night and you can just rain in like two of those minutes and drop them on lungvis plate like do you give any not necessarily this year but in a year or two down the line if you want to keep fox fresh like that's something you could at least consider yeah because i think there's still there's going to be a debate out there among nchal scouts and whether foxes is any lead enough like defender defender to play like the 25 28 minutes that you would typically want a guy to do who is a true like star star star echelon kind of guy you can have debates whether that's true or not but i think as guys like and particularly Schneider and Keandre grow

that you can start putting more hard minute responsibilities on them so that you know you can kind of play Fox the way like Carlson and Brett Burns have been played in their careers maybe get the most out of him

even though I don't think you need to do that with him but I think when you have those when you have options you can you know I think you want Kea Andre and Schneider type players playing the tough defensive minutes just because of their size and their and their features and their physicality.

And that's what you drafted them to do. Yeah. That's why you spent first round picks on those guys. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But yeah, just thinking of their first power play, you know, you imagine Lafrenier is going to be there. You know, Panera, Panera is going to be there.

Sabanajad. Like, there's just, there's only five spots. That's right. Good problem to have. All right. Another one that I'm going to combine, Jacob Macy, Matvee Gustav, sorry, is doing well in the KHL, albeit yes, a small sample size. What are your thoughts on him?

And from True FanNet, if you're the same, if you're the same, and you have a prospect like Igor Sokolov, who continues to impress coaching and management. Do you give him a shot, or do you try to acquire a winger externally? I think two different questions. We'll start on the KHL for a second with Goosecup. He started off really well, Minnesota Wild, a fifth round pick, I believe, from a couple of years ago. And the Jets prospect, Roshchewski, with Dynamo Mawmaska, has also been really good. Also, a fifth round pick from this draft that just happened.

Both are intriguing players, both have decent size with pretty good skill and scoring. ability. Guss Goss Goss Gull, I thought, struggled in his North American games when he was over in the OHL. But, you know, he was considered a top prospect at one point, many, many years ago. But when he was like 15, 16, he was a guy people were excited about. The small sample is relevant. You know, we can be two months from now and he might have gone on a stretch. He doesn't score again, you know, but I think because there is some size and some skill there, not the quickest guy, but I think he's intriguing.

same thing with Rachevsky, you know, he's off to a monster start. Apparently, everyone I'm done at one Moscow scoring right now. But yeah, he's also, you know, got really good hands, instincts, he can shoot it, he competes well. Also, skating's just okay. But both of those guys have at least done it well enough to be the minimum on the radar from an angel perspective. And if in a month or so from now, we're getting to the November national team tournaments and they're still on the radar, they get invites, you know, they play well at that level. I think you could start having more realistic conversations

about what an NHL future might look like for those guys but we're still in September so not quite there. Sokolov, on the other hand, I think is a guy who was shown a more consistent track record. Really good last year in the queue where he was second round pick. You know, good world juniors, goes to the American League. He's one of Belleville's best players.

Skating is a little rough, so that's going to be the issue with him from the National Hockey League. But I think you at least got to give him a chance. And Ottawa has a lot of young guys. You can't have a team full of like 21. 22-year-olds. There's nothing wrong with having depth and, you know, giving guys, you know, having a little bit of depth and making guys having to earn it or being injury call-ups or maybe making them having

to steal somebody's job at training camp. I think he's in that mix. You know, is he for sure going to play in the NHL out of camp? You know, I probably wouldn't say for sure because of the skating, but I like Igor a lot because he's big, he's skilled, he can shoot the puck, and I think he works hard. So I definitely think he's in the mix of play games at some point with Ottawa this season, whether it's at a camp or a mid-year call-up. All right.

That is going to do it for the questions today. I did want to throw in one shout-out before we sign off here to Jonathan Andrew Paul, who replied to the call for questions just to tell us that he was excited because he was for the show because he's picking up his son from school early to drive to a hockey tournament this weekend. Jonathan, shout out to you. Enjoy the show. Enjoy the tournament. and to your son, have fun, and get the win, win it all.

All right, that is going to do it for us. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Please also follow the Athletic Hockey Show on your favorite podcast platform. And leave a rating and a review if you're enjoying it. That really helps us out. You can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You start with the 30-day free trial,

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