The Athletic Hockey Show - Tuukka Rask's brain cramp, Ron Hextall becomes Penguins GM, drama in Columbus and more

Episode Date: February 11, 2021

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe discuss Tuukka Rask's mistake and other notable "brain cramp" sports moments. As Ron Hextall becomes the GM for the Penguins, they chat about other ex-players that have ended up with a heated rival.Then, Columbus is the heart of NHL drama, and the duo discusses the Laine situation and John Tortorella, in "Granger Things", Jesse Granger brings the teams that go over/under the total the most, and they wrap with answering your listener questions and "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM at [phone]! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Ian Menace alongside Sean McAdoo. Ahead on this episode, we'll look back at Tuka Rask's mental gap that fortunately did not come back to bite the Boston Bruins. We'll heat up a big old bag of popcorn. Check in on the soap opera that is the Columbus Blue Jackets these days. Ron Hextall takes over in Pittsburgh,

which has us thinking about how many times a hated player has taken over an arch-rivals franchise. Jesse Granger drops by for Granger things. We chat about the over-unders in the national hockey league in the first month of the season. We'll get into the mailbag. And this week in hockey history, we look back at Theo Fleury's unbelievable night for the Calgary Flames. As we kick off this show, Sean, I got to tell you, we got some big shoes to fill here. Because LeBron and Burnside, you know, in this space on Wednesday, they had Jason Spetsa on their show.

We do want to encourage our listeners. Check out if you did not hear Burnside. in LeBron in conversation with one of my all-time favorite guys to cover in Jason Spetsa, check it out. It was Wednesday's podcast. I got to ask you, too, like, look, Ottawa fans are super conflicted on Jason Spetser, right? Like, he is, you know, I think at this stage of the game, people look back, realize how good we had it in Ottawa with Jason Spetsa. Like, how do Leaf fans look at Jason Spetsa as being part of that team? Yeah, it's, I mean, they're loving it right now because he's playing for.

fantastic. He was good last year, given the expectations, given the role that he was playing, but the numbers he's putting up this year so far have been excellent. And I mean, as far as the senator's connection, I feel like he is a guy that doesn't really associate with the rivalry. Like, he did arrive in Ottawa around that time that the Battle of Ontario was raging in the playoffs, but because of Jacques Martin and because of it was a younger guy, he didn't really really have big role. So I don't think there's, there's too many Lee fans that, uh, hold out any, any bitterness towards him. He was certainly part of those teams after the lockout where there was, there was, there was a few years there where every time the senators played the Leafs in the

regular season, the senators would win eight to nothing. And, uh, Jason Spetson, that, that top line would, uh, would be on the ice for six of the goals. But, uh, I think we can forgive and forget that because, uh, then, Lee fans didn't like those Leaf teams either. So they were okay with it. Yeah. I want, I want to, I want to see Jason Spetsa maybe played in. two playoff games against the Leafs, maybe in 04, but that might be it. Like, you're right. He wasn't really a huge factor back in the day.

But Spetsa in the Leafs, Sean, I think a lot of us were looking at the game Wednesday night, circling it, thinking, here we go. A couple of games, Montreal, Toronto, battle of the heavyweights in the North Division. The Leafs win this one. Here's my question for you. And by the way, congratulations to you with what you were doing there

with your little jinks with the HABS with your... Yeah. It worked perfectly. It worked perfectly. Put the habs ahead of the Leafs and the power rankings. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Played out exactly like you said. Is there, should there be a legitimate concern?

If you're a Montreal Canadiens fan, they play Ottawa last week. They didn't look great. They split. They lose to Toronto. Is there a little bit of a, you know, are we seeing a little bit of vulnerability in a team that we thought was so dominant 10 days ago? I mean, I don't think there should be any panic. I think that if your conclusion a week ago was that this was a team that was going to play 750 hockey for the whole season,

then yeah, maybe you're concerned about the fact that they're losing to teams that you think they should beat because if you're going to play at that level, you should be beaten just about everybody. And I mean, I don't think realistically that's what we thought this Montreal team was going to be. I don't think that's realistically what we should think this Toronto team is going to be. And they're going to go through this at some point. I already saw somebody say that, you know, they play the Habs again on Saturday night, and then they play Ottawa three in a row. I mean, we can all see the big win over the Habs on Saturday coming followed by the letdown against Ottawa. That stuff's going to happen over the course of a season, even a short one like this.

So, I mean, I didn't see anything from Montreal watching that game last night where I thought, ah, yeah, you know what, these guys are a mirage. These guys have been exposed. The Leafs are showing us the blueprint of how to beat them. I saw two pretty evenly matched teams. I think you could make a case that Montreal was the better team for the first period, and maybe both of the first two periods. And then Toronto being Toronto, they do have the ability to flip a switch and generate some quick offense.

And that's what happened in the third period last night. It wasn't the usual suspects doing it. But you know, you're going to lose some games over the course of a year. And, you know, patience isn't really a Montreal market. thing, but you're going to have a little bit of patience here. I mean, you knew you were going to lose two out of three at some point in the season. Well, you know, it's funny. You bring up that word patience and that's not really a thing in any Canadian market. And you know, you got to help, you got to walk me through this here. Okay. The Maple Leafs are first overall in the standings.

They've lost two games in regulation time. And yet nobody seems happy with the way they're playing. Like, what's going on here? Is this like, I just, I'm having a hard time out of like, you know, out of the market, not quite following them. Like, why are Leafs fans so upset that their team is in first place overall? What am I missing here? I don't know that they're upset. There's two things going on here. First of all, when you look at it, and if you're the sort of fan who looks at some of the

underlying numbers, they suggest that this Leafs team has been good, but not amazing. James Myrtle had a really good breakdown on the athletic where he went through some of the numbers. And basically what's happening with this Leafs team is they are, completely deadly on the power play. You cannot take penalties against this team because they're hitting 40% on the power play. But you know that that is not going to continue. Even as much talent as they have as ridiculous as they can be when, especially when they load up one unit,

you're not going to be 40% all year. So you know that's going to come down. You tend to look at five on five. And five on five, the Leafs have been fine. They haven't been great. And they haven't been a team that's putting up the sort of numbers that would make you think that, yeah, this is going to be a first place overall team. So that's part of it.

The fans who look at that stuff are sort of seeing a few warnings on the dashboard that the record might be a little bit misleading. The bigger thing is that the Maple Leafs are this year the classic team where it does not matter what they do in the regular season. They could have gone 56 and 0. They can finish first overall. They can finish first in the division. It's not going to matter until they get to the playoffs.

Very similar to what we mean, Tampa would have been the same. thing last year. You were sitting there going, they got to do it in the playoffs. If the Leafs finish first in the division and then lose in the first round, this season is a disaster and there will be consequences and there will be probably some major moves made. And if they finish fourth, but they win a couple of rounds, great. That's the progress you want to see. This team is all about what they do in the playoffs and what they don't do in the playoffs and what they can avoid the sort of meltdowns we've seen in the past. So I think even the leaf fans who might tend to be more on the optimistic side and more

on the plan the parade side of that leaf spectrum, they're not getting too excited right now because none of this matters if they don't win at least around in the playoffs and probably too. So let me pay this scenario for you. Let's say Toronto comes out of the North Division and we know that the way that they're going to do this here, Sean, is that there's a potential you could play anybody in that conference final and then into the Stanley Cup. Yes or no, do you take Toronto Boston Stanley Cup? Do you, like, does that excite you?

Does that scare you to death? What does that do for you as a Leaf fan? Toronto Boston Stanley Cup final? The answer is yes to all of your questions. That would scare me to death. And that's, I would be more than happy if somebody else could take care of the Boston Bruins for the Leafs along the way. but at the same time, I mean, you know what?

When you've got that that team that you just can't beat, sometimes you just got, the only way out is through. You've got to beat that team to put an end to it. I mean, you know, you look at the senators being an example, could never beat that Leafs team. Wouldn't you have wanted in one more crack? Wouldn't you have wanted to be able to say, you know, it always felt like, especially in like the 2002, 2004 teams where you're like,

if this is the year they beat the Leafs, there's no stopping them. They will get over that hurdle and they'll get past it. And we've seen examples in the NHL, in other sports where it's like you've got to, you've got to slay the dragon, you've got to get past them. But man, going into the Stanley Cup final, that would be rough. Because I'll tell you, if the Leafs make the Stanley Cup final, you want to talk about optimism, you want to talk about Happy Leaf fans, we will be unbearable going into that.

But then to go up against Boston and hockey, God's forbid, if it, It all happened again and there was another collapse. That would be the one thing that would just, if you're a fan of another team, that's what you're hoping for. Because there's no funnier outcome than the Leafs finally making the Stanley Cup final and then blow on a four one lead against the Boston Bruins in game seven again. And everybody makes fun of them for the rest of eternity. Yeah. Hey, listen, speaking of the Bruins, their netminder Tuka Rask made the rounds on Wednesday, Sean, with a bizarre sequence in their game against the Rangers. So in case, you know, our listeners didn't catch that game or haven't seen the highlight,

it's the final minute of the game in regulation time, third period. Tuka Rask leaves his net. And you often see this in the end of a game when a team is trailing by a goal or two. They pull the goalie. He leaves. They put the extra attacker on. The only problem was the game was tied. Tuka Rask either just didn't look at the scoreboard or didn't know what was going on.

He tried to make some jokes in this post game about it. But he left. luckily, it didn't come back to bite the Boston Bruins. Because imagine if the Rangers had gained possession, put the puck in the empty net, we would be talking about this in a much different way. But it got me thinking, Sean, because I think when you think of other sports, you can automatically think of these, and we'll call them brain cramp moments, where the athlete, for whatever reason, just doesn't think, right?

Like, I think a J.R. Smith in basketball, you know, remember a couple of years ago or LeBron with the meme, like, what are you doing? I can't believe you just did that. Or Chris Weber calling the timeout. Jim Marshall, there's a great clip of the old Vikings player, picks up a fumble, runs the wrong way. Larry Walker in baseball makes it out, I think in right field at Dodgers Stadium,

hands the ball to a kid. And meanwhile, there's the game still going on because there's only two out. So I guess my question is, like Tuka Rask yesterday. Like, that's an ultimate brain cramp. like, what are we talking about here? Like, let's try to put this in context in terms of other brain cramps in hockey history

because I'm having a hard time thinking of some right off the top of my head. Yeah, so there are a few. Let me give you a few and you can tell me if these fall into the brain cramp category or if they're more just kind of everyday mistakes. I'll start with the recent one. Brad Marchand, whiffing on the shootout, just leaving the pocket center ice. I mean, we've seen guys go in and make. bad moves have pucks hop over sticks, but to actually line up and just, you know,

nudge the puck half an inch to negate your attempt. I would put that there. One that jumps to mind and it was felt a little bit more serious at the time, although it didn't ultimately turn out too badly. But do you remember Keith Ballard swinging his stick in frustration and cranking his own goal tender? Yeah, Thomas Wocoon in the head. It just, you know, one of those were.

It's like, I mean, how does that even happen? If there's a brain cramp Hall of Fame, I think Patrick Waugh might be in it. Because I've got two Patrick Waugh ones. One is the famous statue Liberty goal. Yeah, very hot dog. He thinks he has the puck in his hand. And he goes to Hot Dog and the puck is sitting right there and Brennan Chanahan pokes it in, which was a crucial goal in that playoff series. I mean, that was that helped turn a series around.

The other one with Patrick Waugh, which was nowhere near a series, but makes me laugh every time, is the time. the time that he just took the puck and stick handled out to center ice and deeped around Wayne Gretzky, which you can't do. It's an automatic penalty to go across center ice. Maybe he didn't know that was a penalty. But the fact that he was even just like, yeah, you know what? I'm just going to deke out Wayne Gretzky here. It's almost like, Patrick, do you remember that you were a goaltender?

But my all-time favorite. And I have no, I feel no guilt in having a laugh at this guy's expense because this guy's getting way too much positivity these days. We're all pumping his tires. We did it, I think, on last week's show, talked about how great this guy is. Mark Bergevin in the 2000 playoffs. Blues against Sharks.

He's playing defense for the St. Louis Blues, and there is a rebound. a puck comes up in the air, and Mark Bergevan catches the puck, which you're not allowed to do, throws the puck, which you're also not allowed to do, but throws it directly into his own net. And it's just one of those things.

If you've never seen it, look it up on YouTube, 2,000 Blue Sharks, Mark Bergervant. It's one of the funniest things you'll ever see because nobody knows what just happened. Like it's literally the play is going on, something, there's a shot, and suddenly the puck is in the net. And nobody even knows it's there. The announcers don't know. The goalie doesn't know that the referee takes a while to figure out that the puck is in there. And then nobody can figure out how it got in.

And the only two people who know are Mark Bergervan, because he's the guy who threw it into the net. And if you watch the replay, Chris Pronger sees the whole thing unfold. And he has the funniest reaction because he doesn't stick around. He doesn't comfort anyone. He doesn't say anything to the goalie. He doesn't say anything to Birchvite. He just leaves. He just like total disgust.

Like I'm a head out and he just heads to the bench and says nothing to anybody. It's one of the funniest plays and bloopers that I've ever seen. And that would be number one on my brain cramp list because, dude, we've seen guys have own goals that are accidents or sloppy plays, but to grab a puck and throw it directly into your own net in a playoff game, I think that's an all-timer. Yeah, you know what? Those are great. Yeah, those are perfect examples of, again, because I don't know that hockey necessarily

maybe the pace of the game, it doesn't lend itself to mental mistakes as much as the other sports, right? Like baseball, you can think of base running blunders or, right? Like Lonnie Smith getting tricked by, I think it was like a young Chuck Knoblock in the World Series. Like, like, are the other sports, there's, there's like a pace to it that lends itself to mental mistakes and hockey doesn't. So that's great. Would you put Marty McSorley using an illegal stick? Is that like, is that a brain cramp or not? I don't, I don't think that one is, because especially back then, everybody did that. Everybody was using illegal sticks all the time.

And it wasn't that, uh, that you didn't use it. It was that nobody ever called you on it. So that was kind of this sort of thing where I know to this day, there's still Kings fans who were salty about that, not because their guy got caught very obviously breaking a rule, but because Montreal actually used a rule that was in the rule book against them. So I don't know that I put that up there. I'm sure that's probably number one on the all-time list of plays that the mistakes that guys would like a do-over on because it was very avoidable. And a lot of players back then had the regular sticks and then they had the legal sticks that they would break out in overtime or in the final minutes. And apparently Martin McSorley didn't even have that. They were just all,

they were, they were all illegal. But I don't know if that was so much a brain cramp as a guy just doing what everybody else was doing in that era and largely still do today. So I want to talk about something we've mentioned on the podcast, Sean, a couple of weeks ago when the Penguins had their opening the vacancy as general manager. And immediately Ron Hextall's name came up. And we, you know, you said this, this would be an all-timer in terms of imagine a guy, an all-time Philadelphia flyer is now running the penguins. And sure enough, and Brian Burke was a nice added bonus here for the hockey world to get Berkey back in that type of platform. So, I mean, first of all, the double hiring there, Brian Burke and Ron Hextall, do the Pittsburgh Penguins suddenly become a very compelling?

entertaining front office right now? That might be top of the list. Right to the top of the power rankings. And I mean, that's Brian Burke on his own. I mean, I've said this in a couple of different places. I don't know if this is going to work for Pittsburgh. I don't know if I'm a Penguins fan, if I'm excited that Brian Burke is the guy in charge.

But just as a hockey fan, the NHL is so much more fun when Brian Burke is prominently involved in running a team somewhere. This guy is just one of the great characters in the game, the great just sound bites and everything and the fact that he's back there. I thought he was doing

fine in his media role. I was enjoying the work that he was doing with Sportsnet. But I want this guy doing press conferences after a playoff game. I want this guy breaking down moves and throwing those sound bites out there. And the fact that you put him with Ron Hextel is

just put them on any team and it's going to be a great combo. Put on a Pittsburgh Penguins team facing all the tough decisions and with all the big personalities and history and everything there. Merrill Lemieux is your owner. It's going to be great. I'm grabbing the popcorn and I'm ready to go because this is just as a fan who is neutral when it comes to the Penguins, this is going to be phenomenal entertainment. Yeah. And you know, it's amazing because Hextall goes to, look, we talked about Jason Spets

earlier kind of flipping sides in the Battle of Ontario, but not really having that same feel of, you know, a rival switching sides. Ron Hexel going to Pittsburgh to me might be at the top of the list of a guy, you know, doing a switch. And it got me thinking, like, how many times have we ever seen this in hockey, Sean? And I thought, okay, well, right off top of my head, Brian Trotchey, who is an all-time Islander. I know he ended up with the Penguins, but, you know, you think of, he might be the best

player in Islanders history. And he coaches the New York Rangers and then does it for like 50-some-odd games. doesn't even last the season, right? So, like, to me, that's the all-time kind of gold standard in hockey of a player involved in a heated rivalry that kind of did a switch at some point later on in his in his post-playing career. Do we put Ken Dryden, like Ken Dryden going to kind of run the Maple Leafs? I don't know.

Like, yeah, it's. It doesn't quite work, does it? No, I mean, that one is probably. up there among the biggest of like, okay, there's a rivalry between the teams and one guy's associated with the one team. But I don't think, and this was before my time, but I don't think there's that many Lee fans that hated Ken Dryden. I mean, by the time Ken Dryden was in Montreal in the 70s, that Montreal team was so good. And that Leafs team most years was so bad that it was a rivalry in name only and in history. But this wasn't a case where you can't point to a single game

be like, oh man, as a least fan, that time Ken Dryden stole that game. Boy, that drove me crazy because we were so close to beat Montreal. No, you weren't. You never were. Not in the 70s. Nobody was. So I don't feel like when Ken Dryden came on, it was sort of an oddity, but it wasn't like, oh, man, this guy, we've all got these bad feelings.

And there's not a lot of other examples. Like, you see it with players sometimes. Like, there's more examples of that. Gila Fleur going to the Nordiques would be an obvious one. But in the front office, there's really not. It does suggest that a lot of teams are looking at this stuff and can't get over some of this. And I think Trajay is the best one because Trajee, that Islanders, Rangers rivalry, that was when it was born, was it during that dynasty. And, you know, short of Denny Potvin, I'm not sure there's anybody that you could have brought into the Rangers organization that they would have had the bad feelings about.

and the fact that it didn't last very long, like he said, is sort of the cherry on top of it because I can't imagine what it would have been like to be a Rangers fan and see this guy that not that long ago, this wasn't Ken Dryden where you're going back 30 years. This was, you know, in the last decade, we hated this guy and now he's behind our bench, that would be tough to get over.

So if you're Ron Hextall and I guess to some extent Brian Burke, Sean, and you're sitting in those chairs in Pittsburgh, like you have to hit the ground running here. There's not like, okay, let's take kind of six, months and assess the situation. Like to me, there's a, I think, there's a touch of immediacy in Pittsburgh. Like, and that's what happens when you have Crosby and Malkin on your roster. Now, the question I want to ask is if you're sitting in Hextall in Brooks chairs, what do you do with Evgeny Malkin, Sean? This guy is going to be 35 years old in July. He's got another

year left on his deal at nine and a half million. This is the first time, like even last year, you look at his numbers. He was 74 points in 55 games last year. This guy is a Hall of Famer. He's produced at a Hall of Famer's clip. This year, a little bit of a flat start, six points and 11 games. Like, what do you do? If you're the Pittsburgh Penguins, what do you do with Evgeny Malkin? It's a great question because he has not been good this year.

But like you said, he was very, very good last year. I think the first thing you do is you don't panic. You don't let yourself get pushed into a situation where you do something or even say something that is going to put this issue. on the front burner. You've got time, not a lot of time, but you've got time left on this contract. You're not going to be able to move a guy like that during

the season even if you want it to. In a hard cap league, it's very hard to make that big of a move. If anyone can do it, maybe it's Brian Burke because he loves those, take those big swings on trades, but I can't see that. So what you do is

you say, hey, this guy has been a great player for us for a long time. He was great last year. We believe he's going to get back to that level. And hey, by the way, we can't even talk extension with him until the offseason anyway. So it's a move point. We're going to let him sort it out. We're going to get him back on track. And you hope that he gets back on track and has the sort of season you expect him to have. If he doesn't, that's when things get tricky. Because you go into the off season and now he's and his agents are coming to you saying on July 1st or whatever the calendar equivalent to July 1st is going to be this year, you can sign an extension.

Do they come to you and say, we want a deal? I would be hesitant if, if Ganyi Malkin has had a tough season to put pen to paper on a big long extension on a guy who's going to be in his mid-30s on that first day. I would be willing to go into the season even and say, let's go into the last year of the deal and just see how it works out. You've built up a relationship with this. player, hopefully you've got some credibility on both sides. I don't think this should be something we're going in the last year of a deal is some sort of awful distraction for the team. Maybe it is, but I don't want to get locked in on long-term deals to guys who are going to be into their late 30s, unless they're playing at a level that warrants that. And if Gany Malcon might be by the time

that decision comes around. But if not, keep your options open. At that point, maybe in the off season, maybe you do look at a trade or maybe you do say, you know, this is a situation where next year, if we're not very good, maybe Malkins a piece that we move during the season, later in the season around a trade deadline sort of scenario, we can keep some salary and get prospects and assets back. Keep your options open, would be my advice. Don't say or do anything that's going to get people thinking that you're leaning one way or another and go into the off season with an open mind and don't let yourself get pressured into signing an extension just to get it out of the way that you're going to immediately or not very long end up regretting.

You know, you used the phrase earlier when we said Brian Burke and Ron Hextall were taking over in Pittsburgh. Yeah, get your popcorn ready for them because it's going to be entertainment. That's been the feeling in Columbus in the past week, Sean, where our Aaron Portsline has been a busy, busy man. Last week when you consider in the span of about, I don't think, 72 or 96 hours, There was the replay controversy with the Cains. There was John Totorella.

Oh, by the way, we're going to just go ahead and bench Patrick Linae. And then, you know, Miko Kovu retires. Like those are the types of stories that each one in their own in a vacuum would be probably great for a week's worth of fodder. And yet it was back to back to back in Columbus. What is going on there? Why is every story in the NHL coming out of Columbus these days? Doesn't it feel like, you know, poor Columbus fans for 20 years,

They're the forgotten team that nobody mentions, nobody talks about. And you can just picture some poor Blue Jackets fan wishing to the hockey gods that, you know, please let Columbus be the center of attention. And it's like a monkey paw situation where you be careful what you wish for. Look, I mean, some of this is just coincidence and bad luck. I mean, having that call and the whole breakdown that went with that, go against them. That could have been any team. But some of this is self-inflicted, and some of this is the John Tortorella factor.

I mean, this is a guy who conflict has followed him. I think would be a polite way to say it throughout his career. We all know who this guy is at this point. He's not somebody who necessarily keeps his emotions to himself. He's not a guy who always chooses his words carefully, or maybe he does. And maybe this is all very intentional on his part, these controversies that he's always stirring up, whether it's the media or a player or whoever. Maybe it's very thought out. And he just feels like this is the best way to lead his club.

But certainly when you look at Patrick Line's situation, this is a case where a new player has come in. He's come in in a trade for a guy that wanted to leave. and whether it's true or not, whatever people say, whenever a player says, I want out, people are always going to look at the coach and the management and say,

was that a factor? You make the trade, a new guy comes in. A lot of us went, oh, we've got to see how this works out. And within two weeks, you already have another situation brewing where he's not just being disciplined,

but being disciplined by being benched, which is the most public way that you can do it. There are ways that you can discipline players that we as fans or the media, will never find out about. To do it, to choose to do it during a game in a public way where you know the questions are going to come. Look, again, John Truderell is a smart guy.

This may all be very calculated. This might be something where we look back and go, yeah, that was exactly the right move. I'm sure he's doing it because he thinks it's the right thing for the team. But man, there has got to be a point where if you're a Columbus fan now, you're kind of like, it would be nice to go a week without any headlines. It would be nice to go a week where we're just talking about wins and loss. and not the latest John Tortorella soundbite or thing that he said. Because that's what people are going to talk about.

And John Tortorale can show up after the game and tell the media, don't ask questions about this, all that he wants. It is a story. And it's a story that people are going to wonder about and talk about whether he likes it or not. And you just kind of sit there and go, all right, now what? What's going to be next with this team? Yeah. Hey, listen, what's next for us is Jesse Granger.

but before we get to Jesse Granger, I don't know if I've ever told you the story, Sean, at the time. Like, I had the wrath of John Tortorella in a scrum. And this would have been like, so John would have been coaching the Rangers at this point, you know, whatever, seven, eight years ago. And I started asking him a question about the stand. So it's a scrum.

And I start asking him a question about the standings. John, when you look at the standing, and he's like, no. I'm like, okay, when you look at, no, don't ask me about the standings. Don't ask me about the standings. And he gets really angry with me. And I'm like, oh, geez, okay, I didn't realize this was like a trigger word for you with standings, right?

So it's awkward. And, you know, I had to rephrase it and he short answered me. And the scrum ends and I walk away and he comes up behind. He puts his arm on me. He goes, sorry. Sorry about that, man. I just, God, I hate questions about the standings. And he walks away.

And I'm like, imagine being a coach of the NHL and you're like, don't ask me about the standings. Like, but, but it was the weirdest thing. It was almost, you know, the Seinfeld episode where you got to order the soup in the right way? Where it's like, if you don't order the soup in the right way, that's how it was, like, with Tortorella, that's like asking him a question. You have to phrase it just right. But I, I don't, in a weird way, I have a ton of respect for him because at least, like, he pulled me aside. He's like, sorry. Like you, yeah, you triggered me there.

But it was just the most random thing. I know, I mean, I don't have a lot of time for the John Tortarillo Media Act. And I understand, I'll put the disclaimer. I understand nobody cares. Nobody wants to hear this because I'm in the media. And it's like, yeah, of course you guys don't want to get yelled in. But that just, you've never told me that story before. But I know every time he does one of these meltdowns, whether it's the short press conferences or it's the Brooksie or whatever it is, there's people who go, you know, he's not really like that.

He's putting on an act. He's playing a character. Yeah, but you're still doing it. And there is a part of me that says, you know, if you're going to bark at a guy in front of all of his colleagues and then privately say, hey, sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I don't, I'm not a big, big fan of this stuff. I think with John Tortorella, there is probably at this point, John Tortorella, the guy, and then John Tortorella, the character that he sort of plays with the media. And again, it might be calculated. It might be the sort of thing where he's thought this through. And I'm not saying that the guy's a

jerk. I'm just saying he plays a jerk on TV an awful lot. And it gets old at some point. All right, Sean, we'll move over to a little Granger things with our pal, Jesse Granger, joining us from Las Vegas. A reminder that to all of our, you know, betting-related coverage here at the Athletic, brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the Athletic. How is Jesse Granger on this Thursday? I'm doing pretty good. That Super Bowl was a wild one.

And the conversation we had last week was a good one to precede it. Well, exactly. I mean, we talked about Jesse the prop bet of Tom Brady touchdowns versus Alexander Ovechkin points. And that one ended up being a pretty interesting. The way that that played out was pretty interesting with the way Ovechkin had the afternoon against the flyers. Right. And of course, I came on here and I said to everyone, he's only scored three or more points in six percent of his career games. And that, of course, means he's going to go off on Sunday. And he did. I think he had three points before the halfway point in the game. he ended up with two goals to assist for four points, and everyone on Twitter let me know. But Brady almost came through. Even despite Ovechkin's monster game, Brady throws three touchdowns in the first half. I honestly, after that at halftime, I was feeling pretty good.

I didn't bet that prop bet, but I think anyone who did was probably feeling good with those three touchdowns in the first half by Brady, but he didn't throw another one in the second half. So Ovechkin ended up winning that bet at a plus 200 underdog for those to bet it. I just got to say because we all said we were all. on the Brady side of that bet, and there was so much trash talk on Twitter when Ovechkin had the four points that I briefly found myself during the Super Bowl

rooting for Tom Brady to throw two more touchdowns, and I will never forgive all of you for putting that thought in my head that I was rooting for Tom Brady to do even better in a Super Bowl than he was already doing. See, betting, betting does crazy things to people, doesn't it makes for strange betfellows?

You're right, I'm with you. I don't know if I could get around to cheer for Tom Brady. Before we get into a couple of lines, Jesse, with you. A quick question on the team that you cover as well for a regular basis. That being the biggest golden nights off to a terrific start. Who's the number one goalie there right now? Like if they had a must-win game tonight, is it Robin Leonard or Mark Andre Fleury? That is a tough question to answer.

Mark Andre Fleury has been, I mean, I think pretty clearly the better goalie through, but they've only played 10 games. They've played five each and they've split them one-in-one each game. And Mark Andre Fleury has clearly been the better goalie this season. But at the same time, Peter DeBoer showed us last year during the playoffs and after they acquired Robin Leonard that maybe that's his style of goalie. I think Pete DeBoer, just the analytical style of hockey, he likes to play, the possession style. He likes a blocking goalie who's maybe a little more consistent and not as. Leder may not have the highs that Flurry does, but he also may not have the lows.

But yeah, so far this season, I think they'd have to go with Flurry, just based on form. He has been spectacular. He's 5-0. He just finally allowed two goals or more than two goals in a game for the first time ever. in their last game. So he's been awesome, but this team has two really good goalies, and I think this competition is probably going to be close throughout the season. Let me throw something at both of you as well as we're talking about Mark Andre Fleury. Sean, now let me start with you. We just talked about Ron Hextall, Brian Burke taken over in

Pittsburgh. The goaltending's been pretty bad. Tristan Jari, Casey, DeSmith, the same percentage is like in the 800s. If you're Pittsburgh, Sean, do you kick the tires or bringing Mark Andre Fleury back? I think we all expected that to happen in the offsees. and for whatever reason it didn't. Again, tough deal to make in the middle of the season with cap problems. But certainly when you look at how that situation has gone for both sides, as bad as the goaltending has been in Pittsburgh,

as good as Mark Andre Fleury has been after an off year last year, Eve looks like he's back to his old self. Boy, you talk about new management coming in. You want to make a move that's going to be popular. Bring Mark Andre Fleury back to Pittsburgh. This is a guy who's, I can't think. of too many guys who ever left a team and were still as beloved as he seems to be with those penguin fans, it feels like there's a lot of different pieces falling into place to make this

something that can happen. And when it comes to the salary, you can get creative. I'm sure there's a way to work it out. Just to chime in, I think this, I think that conversation of kicking the tires on Mark Audrey Flurry has gone from, I think early in the off season, if you would have called Kelly McCriman and said, hey, we're interested in Mark Andre Fleury. It's like, okay, how do we get this deal done? let's set this up. And now I think it's become, you know what, maybe call me back in a couple weeks, because if Robin Lennar, like, he struggled through five games. And I don't expect him to struggle for the entire season. But if that continues, I don't see how the Golden Knights could possibly justify trading a Hall of Fame goalie that's clearly the better goalie on the team right now when you're

expecting to win a Stanley Cup. So I think that maybe the Golden Knights' eagerness to trade flurry has cooled a little bit based on how the two goalies have played through 10 games. That's a good point. One other thing to throw out there, though, you look at Brian Burke's history as a GM, what's been his kryptonite? What's been the one thing, every place that he's gone, not having the goalie. Famously in Vancouver, you look in Toronto, not being able to make that move for the goaltender, you've got to think if you're looking for a motivated buyer, man, the Penguins

might be that right now. Yeah. I think that's going to be a fascinating, and I mean, imagine. I imagine Ron Hextall's first significant move is bringing a goalie in to save the Pittsburgh Penguins. I think it would be dripping with irony and an intrigue. So it would be a lot of fun. So, Jesse, every week when we get you on here for Granger Things, we love talking some of the betting lines going on in the national hockey. I think we're looking at trends.

So let's start with a little over under here. And we'll start with the teams that are consistently maybe putting the puck in the net or maybe allowing the goals, but are consistently going over in the games that they're playing in. Right. That's the great thing about betting totals is you're almost betting the feel for the game rather than which team is actually going to show up. And sometimes it can be more consistent to bet the totals than the sides. And so I went through and I looked at the top three teams that have gone over the total the most. And number one, the team we just have talked about quite a bit, Vegas Golden Knights, they have gone over in eight of their 10 games so far, an 80% overhead

percentage. And it's actually strange because we just talked about how good the goaltending has been. and they haven't allowed many goals this season, but the Golden Knights have been scoring enough to overcome that regardless. So obviously Mark Stone has been having a phenomenal year. He's got 15 points in 10 games. Max Patch ready leads the team in goals, and this offense has been really scoring. They have eight totals or sorry, eight overs.

When the total is usually six goals for this team, they're averaging 6.2 goals per game. So what that tells me is, yes, they've gone over the total eight times, but maybe not a surefire over going forward despite that. seems like they're just barely eking out those overs each time. Whereas you go down to the second team on this list, Washington Capitals, they've gone over 79% of their games, almost the same. They've gone over nine in nine of their 12 games.

But their games have had an average of 7.16 goals per game, which is the highest in the entire NHL. They've given up 43 goals and they've scored 43 goals. The Capitals are an offensive machine. And right now that blue line has been chipping in on offense, not so much in their own end. And they probably haven't gotten the goaltending that they expected to out of Ilya Sampsonoff to this point in the season. Again, it's early. I don't think we want to write the kid off. But he hasn't been as good as they probably hoped he would be when they let Holby go. So they've been an over machine.

And then finally, the last team on this list, the one that intrigued me the most was the Los Angeles Kings, because since I've been watching hockey, this has been a grind-it team. Like when they won those Stanley Cups, I think they ranked 27th and 29th in offense those two years. This team has not scored goals or giving up goals for a long, long time. And gone are those days. This is a younger, faster Kings team that is not nearly as buttoned up in its defensive end. And Jonathan Quick is not nearly as capable of bailing them out as he used to be. So the Kings games have gone over in nine of their 14 games so far. It's been fun to watch. I've been catching a lot of their games just out here on the West Coast. So a team that maybe betters aren't expecting to go over. And the totals have

been five and a half for these guys. So it's like the market hasn't caught up. You're getting a line than whereas like the capitals and the golden nights the total is going to be six maybe six and a half every night the kings you can get a five and a half here and there just because i think it's their history of being a low scoring team and the fact that they're not good so a lot of people don't bet the over on them you look at the other side which teams are going under the most the number one team doesn't surprise anyone the new york islanders that's barry trots that is this defensive system that doesn't allow goals it helps when your goal he's playing as well as varlamov is back there. He's already got three shutouts this season, leads to the NHL. But again, he doesn't have a huge

workload because that team play so well structured defensively. I told you that the capitals have 7.16 goals per game in their games. New York Islanders have 4.73 goals per game, which is absolutely insane, but basically what you'd expect. And then the other two teams that have gone under the most are two teams that I think people would kind of expect. And that's Detroit Red Wings and the Anaheim Ducks. And both cases, it is teams that simply cannot put the puck in the net. The Red Wings maybe do surprise some people because they aren't giving up six goals a night like they were last year. They've played a little better defense. They've gotten a little better goaltaining.

Thomas Grice, I think it's been 468 days. I've been following the guys in Detroit. They've been keeping the streak. No goalie other than Jonathan Bernier had won a game in Detroit in 4608 days. He finally broke that streak. But they're still going under the total. Four out of their 14 games they've gone under the total. Same for the Ducks.

Four out of their 14 games. The Ducks, on the other hand, have a phenomenal goalie. back there in John Gibson, who is somehow has a 9-1-8 safe percentage despite facing, I think, the seventh highest danger chances in the league. I mean, their defense isn't great, but their defensive numbers are decent because John Gibson's back there bailing them out. So ducks, red wings and islanders, if you're going to bet the unders, Golden Knights, capitals, and Los Angeles King, surprisingly, if you're going to bet the overs this year.

As we wrap up with you here, Jesse, I just want to go around the horn. And again, I don't know if at some point you're going to be able to to win. wager on this, but Sean, maybe I'll start with you on this. What are the odds you think every team in the national hockey league gets to the 56 game mark this season? If you had to put down some money or make an educated guess or a bet here, Sean, what do you think the chances are of all 31 teams getting to 56 regular season games? After the last week, I think every team getting the 56 has moved into the underdog column. And I don't know exactly what those odds would look like.

but I think they're trending more and more towards the fact that we all got to get used to looking at that points percentage, call them in the standings, because I do not at this point think that we're going to be able to make up all the games that we're going to need to make up even with some time built in at the end of the season. I just don't see it. And as long as everyone's got a decent chunk of games and we're close enough, go to points percentage, work the playoffs that way. that's good enough. And I think we all got to start getting our heads around that now. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And obviously, I think I might be a little biased just because the team I'm covering has dealt with a lot. They just, two days ago, they finally got Alex Petrangelo off that COVID protocol list. That was their first day without anyone on there in a while. And that day, Tomash Nosek gets pulled out of the game after two periods with a positive test. They are supposedly

going on with the game tonight. I am going to be heading to morning skate when I get out of here with you guys. We'll see if that game continues. But I, you mentioned Ian, like, will this be something you could bet on? It's been fun watching this, the sports betting landscape change as someone in Vegas, who's kind of been around it for years. Now that it's going nationally and like in New Jersey, and these places are legalizing it and it's becoming a more mainstream thing, we're seeing bets that used to be only available on offshore books that are now available in actual legitimate sports books like BetMGM. Like, for example, the Gatorade thing. We, we, we, about in the Super Bowl, the color of the Gatorade.

That used to be a bet you could only make in some offshore book. Who knows if you're getting paid when you win that bet. Like, you're rolling the dice on it. Now, you see, like, that was a widely available bet at pretty much any sports book you could find in the country. So, yes, I do think bets like that and kind of strange bets that aren't exactly having to do with specifically the games are going to become more and more available. And that's great news.

Well, listen, Jesse, as always, we appreciate the visits with you on Thursdays. Fingers crossed, everything goes smoothly for the Golden Knights in the week ahead, and we'll get you again next week. Awesome. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, Jesse. Tell you what, Sean, I had the chuckle when Jesse says, you know, as long as I've been watching the Kings since 2012, like these younger guys that come in,

for us, when I think my earliest memories of the Kings, I'm thinking the purple and yellow jersey is Luke Robitai and Jimmy Carson. What? Did they have, was it Gold Dust Twins or something? What was their nickname? Do you remember this? Was it gold dust twins? that they, but I don't remember that one. I remember the bruised banana uniforms.

And for me, you know, where I was in, in Toronto, seeing those uniforms, I can, I can hear my parents telling me, go to bed. You're not allowed to stay up. It's 1130. You can't watch the second hockey night in Canada game. The Oilers are already winning six to nothing. It's halfway through the first period. Go to bed.

And then, yeah, okay. Yeah. And I only think of that. And because you and I, again, same age, the Rockham Sockham videos. And there's one where like, was it Phil Sykes is fighting Wayne Gratzky? Yes. And he's with the Kings, right? Like, that's my earliest memory of the LA Kings.

I think, I think for me, it's right up there. It's that. And then the other one, and this was another Rockham-Soccom classic, the live chicken being thrown on the ice. Oh, yeah. A chicken wearing a purple cape that gets tossed onto the ice, a live chicken, by the, like, we're not talking like a supermarket package of chicken. Like somebody throws a live chicken.

on the ice during a game. And the game goes on for like a minute. Yeah, 45 seconds or something. Yeah. These days, like anything happens. They say, okay, let's all stop and get organized. They're the live chicken on the ice for so long. And they don't whistle it down.

So, yeah, that was back in the days before the Gretzky trade. That was, there was the miracle on Manchester, a chicken on the ice. And that was pretty much it as far as, as far as King's highlights go. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. When when the least, when somebody threw the waffle on the ice, did the game stop? I have no recollection.

I'm not trying to remember if that, if that happened during a stoppage or if it happened during an actual game. And I don't remember that one. But yeah, that's definitely up there as far as the, the dumbest items thrown on the ice. Yeah. This stupidly, it's the only lead where you could say the phrase chicken and waffles. And instead of breakfast,

as people think about dumb things being thrown onto the ice during games. Oh, exactly. All right. Hey, let's get to the mailbag here. A reminder, you can reach us at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. That's the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. We also want to invite you. We'd love to hear your voice, your actual voice.

We'd love to hear it. Drop us a voicemail. We got an answering machine set up, and you can leave us a voicemail, and we will answer your question. gladly in this space. The voicemail number for you, it's 845, 445-84-59, 845-4-4-5-845-8-4-5. We would love to hear from you. I've got a couple of emails here for us to tackle Sean. This one comes in from Matthew, who says, hey guys, do you think some point later this season we'll see some gamesmanship from teams with waiver claims? For example, let's say the habs have Corey Perry. Do you think a team like Toronto

would make a claim on him late in the year if the habs try and put him through waivers to shuffle him back and forth to the taxi squad. That comes in for Matthew. So that would be, man, Corey Perry, Jason Spitzer, Wayne Simmons. Yeah, that'd be quick. Yeah, it's, yeah, that would be, that would be a fun one. In theory, yes, there should be some circumstances where you would see this. And obviously, everybody's tight against the cap.

Everybody's trying to save that cap room so they can make moves at the death. line. So you're not going to see teams just going crazy on this. And I do think that even though this is supposed to be a cutthroat league and you're supposed to be doing everything you can to win, I think some teams are going to say, look, if we're not going to, if we don't want to use a guy, let's not go and claim a guy and disrupt his life and make him move across a country or a continent in the middle of a pandemic just so we can play games. But, I mean, you mentioned the Corey Perry example. Corey Perry's playing pretty well. If they try to sneak him back through, then yeah, yeah, some other team might want to grab him. You know, we saw the Jason Spets a thing, which was

interesting because Spetsa basically said when he was waived earlier this year, if you claim me, I will retire. And so of course, nobody was going to do that. But that was before he was, you know, the top 50 or 60 in scoring in the NHL. Maybe now somebody says, you know what, let's call his bluff and see what we can do. Or maybe let's claim a guy and then say, oh, did you really need that guy? Well, I'll flip them back to you for a six or seventh round pick. And, you know, let's see how that goes. Yeah, in theory, that should happen. In theory, we should also have offer sheets in this league. So we'll have to see if these GMs really want to play to win or not.

But it's an interesting scenario, especially this year, given how much movement we've seen with teams with this new taxi squad element having to pass guys through waivers as often as they do. And by the way, remember that day where everybody was going through

waivers at the beginning of the season? That was 30 days ago. So we should expect pretty soon that waiver is going to, that's going to expire. We're going to see probably a lot of action late this week. And maybe that'll be when we see exactly that sort of games and shit start to break out. DJ Nightingale also has emailed us again to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com.

DJ, thanks for the note, writes in, hey guys, trying to figure you something out. Why have the COVID outbreaks only been occurring in U.S. cities and affecting U.S. teams and not the Canadian cities? Is there anything Canada is doing differently or better than the United States? That's from DJ. Look, the one thing I think we want to be careful. like we don't want to get on some sort of high horse here and make it seem like, oh,

I can't believe what you're doing down there. But listen, there's obviously some differences. In fact, I had a good conversation with Anthony Duclair yesterday for something I'm hoping to put together for the athletic next week. And one of the things Anthony told me, just as we were chatting to start the interview,

he's like, everything is open here. He's like, everything is open in Florida. He's like, it's as if there's nothing going on. And you juxtapose that with, I mean,

the city where you and I live, Sean, for people who don't know, we live in Ottawa. And it is a ghost town right now. The only things that are open as we speak right now are grocery stores and the schools have just kind of reopened. But that's it. It's a ghost town. And so I guess that there is an element of that that could be a factor. But it is remarkable to think that you look at the situation.

COVID has not affected the NHL in Canada yet. But we're not naive enough to think that it won't have. or couldn't happen in the next few weeks. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the number one answer to the question is good luck. That there's been some good luck here that we haven't seen an outbreak in Canada yet as far as the NHL. And but, and as you say, there are reasons for that. The whole shutdown thing, the whole wear your mask be considerate is less of a political situation here than it is.

down south for a variety of reasons. But at the same time, you know, we're also, we've been slower on the vaccines and the cold weather lasts longer here. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if in a month we might be saying, wow, isn't it crazy that all the outbreaks are in Canada and none of them are down in the U.S. divisions? It's the sort of thing where, you know, hey, great, great news that so far it hasn't been an issue, but I think the word you used was naive.

You would have to be naive to think that's going to continue all season. long. I'd be very surprised if it does. All right. As we wrap up every show, we do a little this week in hockey history. So let's kind of delve into this to wrap up the show. I want to ask you about one or two things, but first of all, February 13th, 1999,

Maple Leaf Gardens hosted its final game ever. And I would think as a young Lee's fan growing up, that must have been the greatest thing for you would be if you got tickets to Leaves game. I don't know they were historically bad there in the 80s. What, whatever? whatever. That must have been so cool that that was the building you got to grow up watching hockey games and probably get a chance to go to a handful of them yourself. Yeah, it was, it was amazing. And I mean, I grew up in the era where, you know, even back then, it was very, very tough to get tickets to a leave game. And so what would happen is the company my dad worked for had seasons tickets and he would get one pair of tickets a year.

And it was usually around Christmas time. It would show up in my stocking. And we would get to go to the gardens. And it was just a huge. I mean, I remember, I remember taking the subway down. I remember the murals on the subway. I remember going out onto the street and walking down. Sometimes we'd go have dinner at the golden griddle across the street, and then you go up those skinny escalators. And it was just, it was such a phenomenal old building.

And it's part of the reason. Like, growing up as a hockey fan in that building, I can't get into these new buildings where they all feel the same and they all feel, you know, there's all the ads and everything around. and it makes me feel like a cranky old guy because these buildings are objectively better fan experiences than the gardens where, I mean, you watch those old highlights of 1980s Leaves games

and something happens and a fan stands up and it blocks the camera. Like the hockey night can I can't show anymore because Gus in the front row decided to stand up and that just blew their whole plan. But yeah, I did. I love the garden so much and it was it was a sad day when it closed

and a sad game. too because it was they got they got blown out by the by the blackhawks that night i can still remember and that the great trivia question of all the legends who ever played in maple leave gardens who scored the last goal uh in maple leave gardens history was it bob probert it was bob probert yeah i thought so yeah and and the other and the other thing that i do remember and i think this was something that that was done on purpose but do you remember who took the face off for the black hawks that night. The last opening night face off in Maple Leaf Gardens history, the Blackhawks sent out Doug Gilmore, who was doing his, you know, that was back when he was playing two weeks for

every team in the entire league. He happened to be on the hawks. And so he was, guys, guys drop the puck. I got to be in Buffalo. Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe it's Jersey. I don't know. I'm going somewhere. Hey, do you know who scored the last goal? You'll love this. You know who scored the last goal at the forum in Montreal? No, I don't. This is, this is better than Probert, because you think about the storied history of the Montreal Forum, I believe it was Andre Covalenko. Oh my. I think that Trump's, I think that Trump's, uh, I think that Trump's, uh, that Trump's

that one. Um, all right, but the one I wanted to finish up with, uh, this week in hockey history, February the 10th, 1993. Sean, the Calgary Flames absolutely waxed the San Jose sharks, 13 to 1. As you look at the box score, the one thing that jumps out at you, Theo Fleury was a plus nine. In a single game. Theo Fleury plus nine.

That was, okay, so I mean, first of all, clearly that Sharks team was all time bad. That was the Sharks' second year. But those first two years, they were so terrible. And I mean, just before you even get to Flurry, just the score, 13 to 1, can you imagine a 13 to 1 game today? What would happen? Sean, I cover the senators. Yeah, that's right. So maybe we're, we might be prepping you for the inevitable.

But I mean, if a team loses seven to two these days, it's like we have to have a commission and some soul searching and figure out what happened. 13 to one. And, and yeah, back then we were like, yeah, that's, that sounds like a sharks game all right. Because it was, and I mean, they didn't even take the foot off the gas. Six of those goals came in the third period. Doug Wilson, of all people, is a minus seven on that game. So that's, you want to talk about having a rough one. And Theo Fleur, yeah, plus nine, all-time NHL record for a forward.

That's the highest plus-minus for a single game. By a forward in NHL history, one off the all-time record, which is held by Tom Bladen, of all people, who I wouldn't be surprised if many people listening to this don't even know who that is. It's a defenseman in the 70s. had a plus 10 one night against the Cleveland Barrens to give you a sense of how lopsided that one was for the Flyers. I don't want to ever say that there's such thing as an unbreakable record. I'm pretty sure we're never going to see another forward,

go plus nine in a single game ever again. Yeah, you know, for a little context, so I looked it up. So since the year 2000, if you're wondering, like what's the highest plus minus for a player in this century? it's a combination, Sergey Ganshaw and Ken Clee were both a plus seven for the Washington Capitals and a beatdown of the Panthers in 2003. But they were plus seven. I would not have Ken Clee, boy, we could have named players for a long time before I

would have got to Ken Clee. Ken Clee. And by the way, speaking of players, he wouldn't expect holding a record. The other thing from that, that Sharks game, 13 to one game, is, It also established the all-time record for most points by a goaltender in a game. Three assists that night for Calgary Flames goaltender of all people. When you think of all the great puck handling goalies and offensive good, Ron Hextoll. Is this Trefielov?

Jeff Rees. Oh, Jeff Reese. That's right. Is the only goaltender to ever have three assists in a game that night against San Jose. is the all-time single-game scoring leader among goaltenders. And yeah, that is not a guy. And I don't even know if any of those came off passes. It may have just been the rare San Jose Shark shot.

You make a save. We pass it up. Theo Fleury gets a breakaway, and it's a point on the board for the goaltender. But yeah, that's one of my favorite records of all the great offensive-minded goaltenders that we've seen, Jeff Reese is the only guy to ever get the three points on a night. See, always comes back to X Leafs. Jeff Reese, Ken Clee.

So you see, Flames fans really, the Gilmore trade, you really won the trade because you got the record breaker out of it. I want to ask you to conclude this show. Theo Fleury is the single game record holder for two remarkable records, one being plus nine. The other is he's the only for it, I believe, Sean, to get a shorthanded hat trick in a game. What is the more unbreakable record?

Maybe a better way to phrases is if you could see one of those things happening, would it be a player getting a short-handed hatty or a plus-9? Because I'm really torn on this one. I think it's the short-handed goals because we see them. But I don't know that we're ever going to see another guy get a short-handed hat-trick. Yeah, it would certainly be. If you're talking about a record being broken, so somebody would need four short-handed goals, that would be almost impossible.

So I could see it, you know, even especially if it got to a game. You know, you know how it could happen is these days with goalies being pulled early, you know, if you're already killing a penalty and the other team pulls the goalie and you throw one down the ice, and that still counts as a shorthanded goal, maybe you could see it that way. The plus nine, I just can't see because, I mean, you're looking at a situation where it would have to be a huge blowout. And these days, if teams shut it down when they're got a lead like that, right?

You know, you're good, but you staple them to the best. bench, you don't want to make the other team feel bad and can't hurt anyone's feelings in this league. So I think if I had to bet on seeing one of those records matched in my lifetime, it would be the shorthanded goals. But that's a tough one because it's very rare to see anyone get two in a game, let alone to finish off the hat trick that way. Yeah, I don't know that Theo Flur gets enough credit for holding those two records. So, you know, it's quite the feather in his cap. All right. We'll leave it there, Sean.

This was fun, as always, enjoy, which should be a pretty interesting and compelling Saturday night hockey game between the Habs and the Maple Leafs. And, oh, no, as I look ahead to the schedule, I see we got the Leafs and the Senators next week. So I can only imagine how much fun that will be for us coming up. I look forward to a Leaf going plus 10 with four short-handed goals in that game. Yeah, 13 to 1. We can be wrong on that one, yeah. Yeah, we set it all up. But hey, listen, enjoy the weekend.

We'll get you again next Thursday. right on. Talk to you then. All right. And so for Sean, I mean, Medis saying, thanks so much

for listening to us. A reminder, you can always email us, hit us up at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. We do want to remind you, as I mentioned off the top,

great interview with Jason Spetsa on the Athletic Hockey podcast, two-man advantage. Scott Burnside and Pierre LeBron checked out out as well. And I'll be back on Monday with Haley Selvian to wrap up the weekend that was.

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