The Athletic Hockey Show - Two Man Advantage recaps the 2021 NHL trade deadline

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

Scott and Pierre look back on the 2021 NHL trade deadline. The guys discuss the immediate payoff for the Bruins with the Taylor Hall trade, the disappointment in Buffalo on the return they received and how Steve Yzerman stole the show, with a late trade with the Capitals, unloading a disappointing Anthony Mantha to DC for an attractive package of players and picks.Plus, the guys discuss moves made by Colorado, Florida, Pittsburgh and the NY Islanders, which bolstered their rosters ahead of what they all hope is a long playoff run.Finally, the guys take your questions on another edition of Ask the Dorks, ahead of next week's show with Patrick Marleau of the San Jose Sharks.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Scott Burnside back for another edition of Two Man Advantage, the podcast, the athletic hockey show. The Dust is literally just clearing from Trade Deadline 2021. Pierre LeBrun, how do you feel? I always worry a bit about you after Trade Deadline because, man, you carry a, you carry a lot of water during the trade deadline for the Athletic, of course, for TSN. Are you doing okay? How are you feeling today? Well, I feel better today than I did probably. yesterday. So good, good timing on us to take that extra day before we did, before we did our podcast.

I was, you know, the worst, you know, again, let's not take ourselves too seriously. We're so lucky and privileged to do what we do for a living. We're not rocket scientists. But I was, you know, I'd stayed up until 2 a.m. on Sunday night, hoping they would announce Hall and they actually didn't announce it until the next day. Went to bed at 2, woke up at 5.30. And then TV, including RDS, from about 7.30 to 5 p.m. And then just to put the little cherry on the Sunday, a Habs broadcast on Monday night. Someone sent me a text and they saw me during one of the intermissions

and said, you look like a zombie dude. I said, I feel like a zombie. So it was all good. It was a fun day. I mean, as I said to you last week, really the people behind the scenes at TSN are the ones that actually make the show happen. Those of us in front of the camera,

just have to smile and break the odd story. but it was, you know, and a new way of doing it. I did it from my home studio. Darren Dregor did it from his home studio. You know, we're still in a pandemic, especially in certainly in Ontario. So it was a trade deadline show done in a different way. And I, quite frankly, I enjoyed it. Yeah, no, and I thought it was good.

I thought the show look good. In fact, it took me a while, like the trained observer than I am, I was like, that set looks. different. And then I was like, oh, no, they're at home. And which makes sense given, listen, things are, you know, things are not great in, in lots of parts of Canada, certainly and certainly in Ontario. So no, good for you guys to make it work. I got to tell you though, the tradie bunch. Okay. I got a, you know, come on. Is that really what you're going to bring out? Because people have been tweeting on me constantly, including a few texts I got from

a couple of NHL coaches about Pierre Dregor. I like, I like. that part too. As I said on air, I feel bad for Drake. I mean, let's be honest. He had to put on some weight when he morphed himself into my body. What was it? That put me in mind of, was it Dregger Face? Was that for me in 2012-13 lockout?

It was a lot of out. One of those long days and nights where we got hoarded into, it must have been an NHL office waiting for an update, just dreary, dreary days, right, covering that lockout. and everyone's just tired. I took a picture of the crowd of media in this office thinking I would just tweet out a picture. But Dregs looked up at my camera just as I took the photo and had the look of someone who had just been speared in the throat. And that became Dregor face. And that went viral.

And I said to Dregs, dude, I'm really sorry, but I literally not do that on purpose. I was taking a picture of the entire crowd and Dregorface was born. What can I say? True, true. Okay, so trade deadline 21. You know, we talked about it a lot, obviously, leading up to it. And I know the number of transactions was down significantly from a normal year. I got to tell you, I still found there was a lot of drama. And I thought you wrote about it very eloquently.

But what a C change, really, in terms of how we saw GMs approach their jobs and how teams leveraging cap space using that. as an asset, as a piece of their own arsenal to add assets on their own. I think, you know, teams like San Jose in Detroit. And I wonder if you think this is the kind of, this sets maybe part of a new landscape moving forward. This is how life is going to be. Or like a lot of things this season, will we really go back to, you know, sort of a more normal pattern where GMs are looking for players, return, all that kind of stuff?

Or do you think this is something we'll see, especially in the flat cap, era that this is going to be the norm? Well, first of all, as far as a quiet trade deadline, which it was, and we, you know, we tried to warn people that it would be. It wasn't, it's not just the flat cap. We'll get that in a moment, but also the Seattle expansion draft had a huge impact. I mean, I can tell you, there are absolutely teams that told me they made off some deals that would have made their team better because they would have paid assets twice.

They would have paid to get the player now and then paid Seattle to not take a a certain player in a couple months. And they didn't want to pay twice for the, for the player. So, so that had, that certainly cast a shadow on this trade deadline. But the flat cap is independent of that. But of course, in conjunction is a double whammy. But yeah, the flat cap environment and its effect is here to stay until the NHL economy recovers and revenues grow and the cap eventually goes up.

You know, if you think about the run on toilet paper, at the start of the pandemic last year and how people went to Costco and emptied out the shells for toilet paper. That's the feeling I'm getting about GMs in the cap space right now. If I can give you any. No, but I mean, there's a bit of panic setting in about I can't be at the cap here. I need some room to breathe. And so you're starting to see that.

And it manifested itself in two different ways. It was the short term, I can only make this. straight if I have a third team giving me cap space. So we saw that on David Savard, on Nick Foligno. We saw that even on Matthias Janmark, which I would never have predicted, right? But that's how tight Vegas was to his cap that had to involve its rival San Jose and give the sharks a Buffalo's fifth round pick that it owned. And so the sharks did it twice.

And it was brilliant. Great work by Sharks GM Doug Wilson and his staff. They got draft picks out of thin air for renting out cap space and didn't even And actually, I think when someone was texting me that by the end of the day, between those deals, they spent only $80,000 in real money because they sent some players back. So they literally, for free, got a fourth and a fifth round pick between the Nick Foligno and Janmark deals. And that's what you should be doing. Steve Eisenman did it. Got the fourth round pick.

And again, for no cash because he sent Lash off, you know, he did it in a David Savard deal. So those were short-term examples of exploiting contenders with no cap space if you're the 13 broker. But the bigger picture story is way more important to me, which is that Washington shocked the entire hockey world with that late-day trade. And at first, you had to sit back and digest it, like four assets for one, two good players involved. Well, why does suddenly Detroit get three extra assets when you got a good player going each way? and then you break it down, you realize that's the cost of having Richard Panic leave your salary cap. He's got two more years of $2.75 million. It is an exorbitant cost, but it is the true cost of the marketplace right now to find some cap room.

They got a Sinovetchkin. You know, they got decisions with Seattle. The caps do. So that's the cost. And good on Steve Eisenman for, again, for taking advantage. manage of that. But frankly, probably a smart deal from Washington's perspective to get this done now as opposed to waiting in the offseason when everyone's going to be trying to do this. Yeah. I got it. Well, I'd love to dive into that because for me, that was, you know, I mean,

there were lots of elements to it, but in some ways it was a hockey deal because there were two, well, Richard Pan, not to diminish Richard Panic, but there are two key elements to this in Jacob Verona, who, you know, you go back to 18 in that playoff run. really had sort of a breakout season, but especially in the playoffs, was really dynamic, really was important to the depth that allowed Washington to march to its first Stanley Cup championship. And I think it's fair to say, you know, maybe, you know, he hasn't exactly got to, you know, hasn't maintained that kind of arc. And I just love that, you know, to me there's a real, this is a kind of move that says, you know, We are not, you know, patience is an important virtue, but we got to move.

We got to move on here. And in getting Anthony Mantha, who had a nice start as the capitals crushed Philadelphia in the first game after the trade deadline. But, and to your point, Mantha gives, mantha gives the caps, you know, some cost certainly. Yeah, he's expensive at $5.7 million, but he's under contract to through 23, 24. And this is a team that still has, like the windows not closed on them. Like, I think this is a critical year for the caps. And it strikes me that this, this is a move that speaks to. You got Peter Lavio let there.

As you mentioned, you got Ovi, you know, on an expiring contract. I expect he'll be back, of course. But, you know, this is like, there's some urgency in Washington. And I think Anthony Mantha, even though he maybe sometimes drove people crazy in Detroit, I love to fit there. And I think the caps are going to be a bear. I just think they're going to be a bear. They certainly weren't their first game out to.

deadline. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. But I love that deal because it's so it really shows, to me, it shows some boldness on both sides and Steve Eisenman. What a nice trade deadline period for him. And if, you know, in the same thing, maybe this works out for both Manta and Vrana, but I think Vrana has a chance, you know, to fit into that young core up front and, you know,

take on a, you know, a leadership role or a prominent role there, get, you know, and you change the scenery for him. And yeah, it's great. I've been more and more impressed. with the Red Wings over the last couple weeks. And I don't know. Maybe I don't know. But I think they're closer than people think.

They play hard. Well, there aren't going to be shortcuts with Steve Eisenman. And you saw the program that he built in Tampa Bay, which really was over time. I mean, I mean, there was a bit of a tease in the first year he got there. The Lightning went to the conference finals, as you remember in 2011, Scottie. But that was really, you know, he had made a couple of good moves. but really a team, that's the team he had inherited, right? But then the work started.

And then over time, you know, I think it's what he's trying to do in Detroit, and it's not going to be overnight. But what he's trying to build is something that has sustainability where you're taking repeated shots at it. You know, it's not about the two-year window. It's about several years of being a real knocking at the door team. And that's what Tampa is. You know, that's what he built.

built there and Julian Brazier was continued to build on that with a number of excellent moves himself, part of that legacy there. And that's what's happening in Detroit, no question. And it's funny, other people have commented on this on social media and in their articles. And it's, it's so true. But to the greatest players in the history of the game, Joe Sackick and Steve Eisenman, who just continued to sort of, you know, show that they're excelling at being GMs just like, you know, they were players on the ice, which is not necessarily two things that are guaranteed to happen. There's lots of former players that I've tried to run hockey teams

that I haven't been able to figure it out. So it's pretty amazing, you know, with both Isamund and Sackick are pulling off in their post-playing careers. I'm happy to bounce all over the place. I love the segue into Colorado, Joe Sackett. You know, again, people might have felt There was a, you know, that this was a boring trade deadline or whatever. Again, I didn't find it that way.

I thought there was lots of drama and lots of, especially, you know, sort of the end of the day, there were a flurry of trades that there often are. And I was like, oh, okay, that's really interesting. But I was curious to see how Joe Sackick was going to handle the trade deadline. And again, you know, it was an obvious hole to fill with the finding a backup goaltender, which they did, of course, with Devin Dubnick. But there were a couple of, you know, just a couple of those. subtle moves that put me in mind of when you look back at that recent cup winners, right?

What did Washington do, you know, very, you know, sort of quiet move with Michael Kempney at the deadline in 18? And you'd think about, you know, some of the more subtle moves that teams make. And I thought bringing in Patrick Nemet and Carl Soderberg, both players that he knew well, who had played well in Colorado. And to bring them back in, I was like, okay, because so much what we talk about, the trade deadline, and I think even more so this year, because of the truncated schedule and playing only divisional hockey, it's so critical for players, you know, to try and assimilate quickly. Well, Patrick Nemeth and Carl Soderberg should have zero problem stepping back into the groove in Colorado. And I love both those ads. And what's

not to like about that Colorado Avalanche team? Yeah, you know, the part that was important for me, As you know, we discussed this in the weeks going to the deadline. The part was that was critical to me was to get another goalie because, you know, there had to be someone in between Grubauer and Joannsen in my mind. And listen, Johansen's been fine, but I felt that there needed to be more experience there to avoid the nightmare of last year's bubble playoffs when they lost their top two goalies. And so I do like the Dumbick acquisition. I know it was not endorsed by everyone.

you know, but the thing is, it's not everyone that can just jump in. It's really hard, you know, Jamie McClun from TSN, former Flames goalie and the NHL goalie and an NHL goalie coach who I work with the TSN. He talked about how difficult it is for goalies, some goalies to join teams in season and adapt to new systems and to the way that, you know, the D and Farmman react and play and all that stuff that we kind of, I think, overlook as media, but you can only really know as a goalie, it's not for everyone. It is hard for some goalies to switch teams, you know, mid-season.

And I think that's why I think that a guy like Doobnik now that's bounced around a couple times, a veteran who's been through a lot of adversity, I think you give yourselves a better chance if you're Colorado of hoping he can figure it out on the fly quicker than perhaps someone who's traded for the first time or has been kind of jolted by the move, you know. So I actually like the move And I think it's given them Listen, you know the trade is going to be Perfectly executed

If he never plays a game in the playoffs That means Gruvaire was healthy, right? But you need him there And I think that was really important Colorado to do Yeah, good point All right, what else? What else we got here?

I'll just put the ball in your corner. What else? Let's talk some of the big boys We talked about Colorado. I thought it was not surprising, but a number of the top end teams, true Stanley Cup contenders, that made significant moves or shored up depth

or plugged some holes. Is there one that sticks out for you? You're like, okay, yeah, that's a nice piece for a team that could run the table. You know, I think Don Sweeney had a pretty impressive 24-hour when you consider, you know, getting clobbered in that game. Is that on Sunday? Yeah.

Yes. And all the injuries and this and that. And it looks like the walls were caving in on Boston. And you hate it. And I know from talking to GMs over the years, you hate having to go make deals when all these injuries suddenly happened. Not suddenly, in his case, they've had injuries for a while. But you know what I mean?

Like the leverage angle in all of it. And I thought he did really well. I mean, Mike Raleigh's had a surprisingly. efficient year in Ottawa and I will see how he adjusts. But I think he took advantage of a bigger role than he's going to have on a better NHL team through the course of his career. But he played well in a, you know, in a top four role in Ottawa this year on a young team. And it certainly got the attention of the Bruins.

But I like that pickup. He's a good puck mover. You know, he's prone to turnovers. But again, they're so decimated on D. And of course, Taylor Hall. and, you know, I think you wrote this, Scotty, but I mean, it's, it doesn't seem to be an in-between opinion on Taylor Hall. And, you know, it's, it's, so I don't think he would have been a good pickup for the

leash, for example. The Leafs have plenty of offense. So it really is about the fit in terms of taking a chance on Taylor Hall. I think the fit was right in Boston. They've had that second line old forever, right? But it wouldn't have not have made sense for me for Colorado, and I don't even think Colorado tried, but I'm just saying there are certain teams where you're adding Taylor All,

and I think it's inviting headaches for the coaching staff to, you know, to figure out how to use them. And that would have been the case in Toronto for me. I do not think you would have been a good fit in Toronto in my mind. But I think Boston was a beautiful fit. It makes sense. Well, and Flutoshin's, and I were talking about this on a breaking news podcast the morning after the trade was announced.

And, you know, I mean, listen, I feel for Taylor Hall, right? I mean, his comments to me were so, you know, sort of raw and honest that there's a guy, he's a guy that's been, he's been rocked, right? He's confidence is at a low web. And, you know, listen, we know he's a good player. And I'm with you. I think the fact that he can go to Boston, he plays in, you know, he slots into a place behind Patrice Bergeron, Brad Marchand. There are David Pasternak. He doesn't have to suddenly, you know, carry a huge weight.

He needs to be better than he's been. I think everyone can agree on that. But I think this is a good spot for him to do that, to find his way back to that. And it's, I got to tell you, it's interesting. And that was, you know, how delicious that the first game is against Buffalo, a very chippy contest. And I was watching the Buffalo broadcast. And early on, Taylor Hall, you coughed up a puck and a blind pass up to the middle. Oh, my gosh.

There were a couple of choice comments that really made me arch my eyebrows. So it's definitely some feelings there. Well, you sort of interrupt. And can we just, you know, the reaction on Sunday. night was so over the top by a lot of people in social media about the fact that the Sabres, you know, got just a second round pick. Can we please understand the dynamics of this trade? Now, I'm not suggesting that that perhaps a more veteran GM couldn't have still handled this differently. I think there's, that's a fair comment. But Taylor Hall had a full

no move. And as I tweeted yesterday, and it seems to have gotten some reaction on Twitter, but only because I know it to be true, the Sabres had a better offer on the table from a team in the But Taylor Hall is a full no move. He dictates where he goes. And why? So it's like the reaction right away, well, should have got this, should have got that. That'd be great. Too bad he had a no move.

I mean, when a player has a full little move, it cuts the market down by 80%. And it just becomes like if you're the team selling him, ugh. Now, maybe you try not to give the guy a new move when you sign him. But clearly he probably wouldn't assign him Buffalo back in the fall. But anyway, I just got to get that off my chest because it's like, I think people react to things before they understand the other layers to it. And he did have two goals. So let's, you know, I mean, there is that, right?

Right. There was a lot at play there. I'm telling you for a fact from talking to every front office in the league over the last month, there were more teams calling on call Paul Mary and Nick Foligno than there were teams calling in Taylor Hall. That's just a fact. Now, you can disagree with the fact that that happened. I got no problem with that.

I'm just telling you what the facts are. I am totally with you. And I think it's going to be fun to watch. And I get it to, I love, I love, you know, it was a huge win, really, for Boston in a shootout, as it turns out against Buffalo. Because, you know, they're not, I still think Boston ends up and forth in the east. But I got to tell you, love the Rangers, right? The Rangers are cooking. they are, you know, they are going to put some heat on Boston.

And so this is, I'll ask this as a question. I feel kind of a little bit let down as we head past the trade deadline now into the stretch drive. You know, teams are in that, you know, what are we talking? You know, less than 20 games, but certainly now, you know, 14, 15 games left, you know, depending on where you're at in your schedule. But there aren't, there isn't, the actual playoff races are a little bit muted, right? Like it's hard to imagine now a lot of teams that are in fifth or sixth place in their respective divisions making a charge.

There's a bit of a gap is my point. But the Rangers, I think, are going to keep the heat on Boston. I love that. I love the drama there. It's great for a young Ranger team even if they don't make it. But I got to tell you, the Bruins, like there's no, they don't get to take a week off, right? If you're the Bruins, right? You've got to keep, you got to keep charging forward because I think the Rangers are going to stay in the hunt right down the stretch.

Yeah, and I say this with, I mean, I love where this Rangers program is headed. I'm, first of all, kudos to Jeff Gordon and the Rangers front office for not doing anything foolish at the trade deadline. Not that I thought they would have, but the Rangers historically love the trade deadline. So this was a great example of keep your assets and wait until the offseason. The Rangers are doing that, which is really smart. You know, they're going to have cap space. you know, obviously I feel like getting at a first or second line center

would be a tremendous add to where this program is headed. So all those things are really positive from you for this. But I will say when I look at this playoff race that you just described, and again, I say this is non-criticism. This is kind of fun. But I feel like the Rangers are like that baseball team in September every year that was out of it and suddenly gets on a 10-game winning streak because it's house money.

It's sort of like, oh, this is fun. You know, they're not expected to make it in. People have counted them out. And I think they're just enjoying it. And that's what I'm seeing when I'm watching the Rangers play. And that's dangerous. But I do think the bruns will get in. Yeah, good point.

All right. What else? Who else do we like at the, sort of the, you know, that our clubhouse leaders, as it were, in terms of Stanley Cup contention. You mentioned Kyle Palmieri. You know, Lou Lamarillo once again, just, you know, step into the plate, crushing the ball to the wall. I love both Kyle Palmieri and Travis Ajax in that lineup, given the way the East is shaping up.

That East is going to be a ton of fun playoff time. I don't know how it shapes up. But I think all those teams, Washington, Pittsburgh, Islanders, Boston, they're better. than they were 48 hours ago, 72 hours ago, you know, in the days leading up

to a trade deadline. But I do like the Islanders again. So the Islanders are my pick to get out of the division. I think they're going on the league semi-finals, yeah. And that's,

I know Washington will be a lot of people's picks and I couldn't very well be Washington. I don't know how Pittsburgh keeps waiting, by the way. They had a million injuries over the six weeks

and they put in these taxi squad players and they just keep winning. I mean, it's funny. You talk about culture and legacy players and you can tell a franchise that's done a lot of winning because, you know, and I know some people don't believe in all this stuff. I don't care. I'm telling you it exists.

The Penguins culture is showing itself this season. Okay. On paper, this to me was a bubble team this year. You know, they're starting the window starting to close and don't have a lot of young guys coming up. And it's just starting to, let's, you know, try to patch this up. And I'll tell you what. They have a management change in the middle of the season. Yeah.

And I think, you know, great coaching, the Crosby-Malkan culture, Latang, it manifests itself. I mean, they thrive under adversity. Now, I'm not high on their playoff chances, but it's just what they're doing is really impressive, I have to say. I want to point that out. But if you're going to make me pick a team, I think it's the Islanders. The Islanders are built for playoff hockey. They make so few mistakes. And they terrorize you when you make one.

You know, I just think that they're going to be so hard to beat. And again, adding Paul Mary and Zajak was a terrific work by Lou LaMerell, no question about it. They bring in Colburn, who knows how many games he's going to end up playing, right? but you talk to the people in Tampa, Scott, as I know you have, what do they have to say about bringing COVID over the years he was there? You know? He's a rock, yeah. Like just an amazing leader, just infectious with his attitude and leadership.

And I remember him being in Tampa for a playoff series. I don't remember what year, but he wasn't in the lineup. And, you know, he kind of wondered how veterans will take that at that point. First guy on the ice for the optional. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's Lou L'Amrella knows how to find those guys

and yeah, I think the Islanders are my pick there. Yeah, former Atlanta Thrashers, by the way. Oh, I knew that was coming. I love, I don't even, is that an official Thrashers' Twitter account, that Atlanta Thrashers account or is it a fan? I don't think so.

I don't think so, yeah, it's fake. It's beautiful. They tweeted on deadline day. We're done for the day. A lot of people were retweeting it. Whoever runs it, I have no idea. That's great.

So you mentioned Pittsburgh. I'm curious what you make. And I, you know, we always, we talked a lot about, you know, who might go and what teams might do. And when I looked at the Kings and, you know, and having Drew Dowdy on the show a couple weeks ago, the one guy that didn't seem to be in the mix. And I know actually, Lisa Dilma and I had talked about this a few weeks ago. And the feeling seemed to be that Jeff Carter really was, you know, he's been in L.A. a long time. me won two cups there wasn't really, you know, he didn't really want to go anywhere. That, that deal actually shocked me.

Well, to me, it's an obvious, you go back to, we talked about the change in management there, but Ron Hextall, who was a critical part of Dean Lombardi's staff and building the two Stanley Cup winners in Los Angeles. Is there any question that Ron Hexwell's connection with Jeff Carter and the L.A. King's organization would have been critical in this. And I talked to a couple. I talked to a GM. He was like, I love this move.

Loves Jeff Carter in that Pittsburgh lineup. And I go back to what you were talking about in the culture there. Obviously, you know, the three Stanley Cups during the Crosby era, all that kind of stuff. And the idea that Jeff Carter, who's been mostly a winger, even though, you know, his traditional role when he was an NHL star was as a center, but he's been on the wing. this GM was like he still shoots the puck like so few players Super smart player Yeah so I love that at

I just think it's I think that has I don't know if the penguins can get out of the east It's really it's fascinating You know the especially Washington Islanders Pittsburgh right now It's going to be fascinating to see So I love Jeff Carter there There's a lot to chew on here first of all I love that Bob McKenzie broke the trade on Sunday night

Because Bob, Bob, who's in semi-retirement, just sort of walks into a trade deadline and breaks one of the biggest trades. Man, I love working with that guy. There's a lot to chew on here. So in the last couple of years when there were teams calling in Jeff Carter, basically, I don't want to get in trouble when I say this. I don't know if I should share this. But basically, Jeff Carter is like, from what I can gather, you know, he's never told me this. But I've heard through secondhand sources that the insinuation was, if you trade me all, and then the Kings were going to be saddled with some pretty bad cap recapture penalties.

So Jeff Carter really controlled his fate. So clearly he gave his blessing, is what I'm saying. And the other thing I want to say is that, and you're right, there's no question that if it's not Juan Hechel and Ball, I don't think Jeff Carter goes anywhere. But I had to double check this because I forgot. You know that he's currently in the 10th. year of that 11-year contract that he signed in Philadelphia in November of 2010, which is a

famous contract for all kinds of reasons. Obviously, in the 2012 CBA, they curbed it down to eight-year max, right? But when he signed this deal, there was a rather famous story of him trying to get assurance, because he was too young to get a no move when he signed it, of him trying to get assurances from the flyers that he would not be dealt. Because the deal at the time, he was a young Star was seen as being to some degree cap friendly, right? I mean, the cap hit his 5.27 million a year over 11 years. But he was willing to do that because the Flyers, you know, they went to the cup final in 2010.

Yeah. They were seen as being on the cusp of, you know, him, Mike Richards and the young co-juru, you know, on their way. And so Carter signs a deal that, you know, probably could have gotten a bit more, you know, but, okay, let's keep the band together. And then, of course, traded to Colorado. this. That did not work out.

Where he had no intention of ever embracing. And I'm sure now Jeff Carter with age will say, I probably didn't handle that the best. But yeah, next year, he's entering the final year of an 11-year deal. It's kind of neat. And in real life, by the way, he makes $2 million this year, makes $2 million next year. So the cash is a lot lower than the cap number. Although for a team like the Penguins, that's always at the cap, that's kind of meaningless. But, you know, we'll see what happens with Jeff Carter.

is he meaning to play next year in Pittsburgh or not, right? I don't know. Yeah, well, I think these comments, initial comments were, yeah, no, I'm fully, you know, I'm on board. And again, I'm with you. I don't know what happens. That Pittsburgh team, this Pittsburgh team puts me in mind a little bit of 2017. You know, again, you're coming off a cup win and Chris LaTang was injured.

And it's just, you know, I think it was easy to not ignore, but you sort of, okay, you You know, this can't happen for the penguins. And there's a little bit of that kind of, at least in my mind, there's a little bit of that, oh, you know what? I don't think we should sleep on this team. And again, you know, I don't, it's still way too early. It's still way too tight. But, you know, we've been a couple years now without a Pittsburgh Washington playoff series.

So. Oh. You're just trying to get yourself to shales in Pittsburgh is what you're really trying to do. I mean, I had, I've been in a closet in my house in Decatur. I have barely left this room for a year and a half. Yes, I would love my Pittsburgh Washington series. I know there is Scott Burnside birthday in Pittsburgh. That's it, exactly.

All right, we're getting towards the end. We're going to take another break in a few minutes. But let's, what deal, what team, what player were you like, oh, okay. I wonder how that will work out. Or I like that a lot. So I don't think that they. I put some on you. Yeah, I don't think they.

needed anything. Vegas has been rocking it all year, but it's interesting. You know, my favorite expression is actions speak louder than words. They were in on Taylor Hall and they were in on Nick Foligno. Yeah. So what does that tell you? I don't know. Like, it's just one of those things where Vegas gets in on all the action. He gave up a lot for Matthias Yanmar. Well, he, well, because he ended up overnight from Sunday to Monday being the number one

player in the TSN Trade Bay Board. That's why. But he's a, you know, I think he's an underrated player. I know you didn't read your winners and losers' deadline piece. You weren't a big fan of the move. You know, there was pretty good interest in him. The Blackhawks were entertaining a few offers there. And so Stan Bowman did a pretty good job leveraging that out. But who knows?

Let's see one of the things. And again, I'm not castigating you for writing winners and losers. That's your job. But I do find the exercise of judging winners and losers on deadline day may be the most useless thing alive. I know I know fans love it. Is it more useless than predicting award winners in training camp? Yeah, also. No, no, because the point is, I'll tell you who the winners and losers are after the Cups award.

I mean, this is one of my, you know, this is one of my favorite ones is Antoine Vermet looked like one of the most useless trade deadline additions in the history of the trade deadline for the longest time in 2015 until he scored an overtime in the cup final. No, but I mean, that's the point of all this. It's sort of like, you know, Joel Quenville didn't seem to trust him and he was a healthy scratch at times for, and fourth line and then bang. I think I don't know if it was injuries. I can't remember now, but overtime cup final, there you go. That's why you go get Antoine Vermet at the deadline.

And so, you know, do I know what Jamarck's going to be in Vegas? No, but I mean, if he scores some big goals, there's some key moments. and the Vegas wins the cup, then we'll know that they had a good deadline, right? Yeah, no, that's right. And, you know, I'm a big boy. You can say whatever you want. No, not the only one.

Everyone does winners and lose it on deadline date, but I'm just saying, not to mention the deals that involve draftics that we won't see those players for six years. I mean, that's it exactly. Yeah, no, it's going to be, it will be interesting because my point only was that Yanmark has gone a little bit dry,

and who knows, maybe maybe it's a fit there. And maybe the spin is, this is piling on Matthias Yanmark. He's a great kid and he's been through a lot. And maybe the story is how well Stan Bowman did in getting the kind of return he did for a player who's been pretty icy cold. Yeah. And Stan Bowman had a good deadline overall. I mean, that deal with Florida, which was last Thursday, I think, you know, again, that was one of those salary cap market deals, right? And I thought he got a pretty good return.

You know, can they figure out, you know, the first round pick Borkstrom, supposed to be a really good player, right? And hasn't, Florida couldn't figure him out. And of course, Riley Sheehan, I think is, is, that Riley Stillman, sorry, Riley Stillman, the young defenseman is really the get there. But they got all that because cash is king and the cap space is king. And Florida needed to move money so that they could do other things. And again, good job by Bill Zito because that's set up what he ended up doing.

with Brandon Bond tour you know signing goose so Zito did some interesting things there but again in terms of the cap you know I thought Stan Bowman

handled things well yeah I wanted to ask you about Billy Zito and Florida interesting team they come up with a big hockey deal at the end yeah hockey deal at the end but also I think there were a couple of things and you know there were a couple of young assets

that went out as you mentioned in that deal with Chicago. And, you know, okay, there's still lots to like about the youth in that Florida team. I love Brandon Montor's ad. And I know he, you know, listen, everybody who is in Florida has a certain stain on them, right? Like, there's a stink on them. There's no other way to put it. And so to me, it's whether it's Taylor Hall or Brandon Montour or Curtis Lazar,

who I think has a chance to be to really thrive in Boston. But it is going to take some time. But I talked to a scout who was like, you know that Brandon Montor was a good player in Anaheim. Buffalo gave up a first round pick and a prospect for him. He's going to be, he doesn't take Aaron Eckblatt's place, but he fills an obvious need there. And I think Gusev, you know, whatever happened in Jersey clearly ran out of runway there. But, you know, is he like Alex Galcena, right? who got another chance and he's shown he can play at the NHL level.

I just thought some interesting things for a Florida team that, you know, they'd lost three in a row heading into the trade deadline, maybe a little bit below Carolina and Tampa now in that pecking order. But I thought that was a really nice trade period for Bill Zee doing his first year. Yeah. I love, so he made three key moves. I love two of them big time. I think Montour was, is going to be one of those where you look back. Wow, that was smart. like Montor is going to find his game in Florida.

I think getting Gusa for free is like, why not? I mean, this guy, this guy, big time score in the KHL just needs to find himself. He got him for nothing. I'm not sure about the San Benad deal. Not sure. I think everyone keeps waiting for Sam Bennett to be that first round guy. And I think he's played long enough where I think we do know what he is. And that's okay.

He's a good player. But I think he's a second slash. third liner, hard on the puck, but I don't think there's much offensive ceiling there. And so I think he overpaid a bit. I think Calgary right now looks like they got the edge on that deal a bit, essentially got two second rounders. I mean, they got a second rounder in 2022, and then they got this kid, Emil Heineman, who I talked to a couple of teams that are pretty eye on him. He was drafted in the second round last year. So we'll see. Again, here I am trying to judge deal and like I said, we won't know really the

Calgary end for a number of years. No. You're doing your own winners and losers. I know, I am. Speaking from both sides of my mouth, like again, I think Zito had a really good deadline period. I think he, you know, his hands are tied a bit and he can't do a million different things there. But I'd like to look back on this one.

This is an interesting one. All right. Just before we take our final break, I mentioned, you know, the playoff races. Maybe there aren't a lot. You know, can the Rangers you know, because the Rangers keep the heat on on Boston right now as we're chatting. There are four points back, but they've played two more games. And now games in hand become critical, right?

I mean, it's just the reality of it to now that we're down to teams with 15 or 16 games left. Is there a playoff race that you think is still, like, is there still a playoff race that you're, that you believe will give us some juice down the stretch? Is there one that you're particularly interested in? You know, the flames have been written off by a lot of people. And I made the point in my interview with Rad Trilwing for the deadline of mentioning that it doesn't look good. And I listened by his own actions, I mean, he's trading away Sam Bennett and David Ridditch. He's acknowledging the odds. But, you know, big win by the flames in Toronto last night as we tape this.

They're in Montreal tonight. They have the haves. I think. I don't have it in front of me. I think five more times, don't they, for the end of the year, starting tonight? I don't know. It's a lot. So I'm just, listen, the halves are three games in hand, and the halves are six points ahead. So I understand Matt, believe it or not.

I'm not very good at Matt, but I understand the odds. The habs have not, I mean, big win by Montreal Monday Night over the Leafs, for sure. They were full value for that win. But they're so inconsistent. And I don't know. I have this weird feeling that Calgary Montreal is going to be a thing. I still think the haves make it in, but I think they make it in with a sweat maybe. I don't know.

What do you think? I don't know. The math is not in the flames category. And they've been so inconsistent. But to your point, that was, you know, a huge win over their former pal, Dave Ridditch. And yeah, no, I'm, I don't know. There's three and seven in their last 10. I don't know. I don't see it happening. But it would be fun if there was some drama. Because really, the only drama right now is who finishes second and third. And really all that matters is home ice. really. And part of my concern for the haves is more just that their schedule continues to knock them over the head. Four games a week. They have a three and four the rest of the way. Every week. So you can see there are nights where they don't have their legs or some nights they have their legs.

When they played that third game in four nights last week against Winnipeg where they actually outshot the Chats, and they actually had a lot of energy for a team playing three games and four nights. But they made a number of Mendel Miskues that ended up in their net. So it's just it's a lot. that the grind of the app schedule is the only reason when I look at Calgary having five games against them. But at the other day, again, I'm picking Montreal to make it. Yeah. Flames would basically have to go four in one because that's what you have to do now.

It's probably in regulation too. Not just four and one. Like if those are four overtime wins, that's a win from Montreal. Yeah, exactly. All right. Just one final thing, because I want to touch on a team that didn't do anything at trade deadline. and it sort of plays into our discussion of playoff races. And again, I'm not.

You're going to say St. Louis. I am going to say St. Louis. And, you know, you and I talked about Arizona, you know, they're a point behind St. Louis, but they play two more games. The Blues and we talked about Doug Armstrong, the GM there, who's never been afraid to make a move if he feels that he needs to or makes a team better. Well, exactly. Well, they won three. He won three in a row. Paul's actually gone.

They won three in a row. So we stepped back from the phone and didn't make him, didn't trade. Yeah, Mike Hoffman and Tyler Bozac. I'm shocked Mike Hoffman wasn't dealt. Because I thought that just because it seems like Craig Brubay doesn't really want to play Mike Hoffman at times, I thought that that might just be got nothing to do with how we're playing or where we are in the standings. It's just not been a fit. I thought he was just going to treat him for that reason.

But, you know, I don't know. They step back and. And, you know, Dar Armstrong explained everything. I thought Jeremy Rutherford wrote a great piece sort of explaining it all, but clearly believes that his 2019 Cup champion roster has a second gear here. And I don't blame him. You know, there's one point separating the Blues and the Coyotes. It feels like 10.

Yeah. Right? And San Jose, you mentioned the Sharks. I think the sharks are a bigger threat to St. Louis than Arizona is right now, just the way the Coyotes are playing. Well, got four points back. Same number of games. They each have 15 games left.

So this is, it's still, to me, again, I like that Doug Armstrong was like, okay. And like we joke about it. But yeah, he stepped back. Teams responded a bit. And to me, this is a team that I love the idea that let's assume the blues, you know, hang in there and they get the four spot. The Blues are that team, I think, that could really bite a team like Colorado or Vegas. Colorado is going to win that division. But I think that's part of it.

Yeah, exactly. I love that part of it. I mean, I'll do respect to the Wilde, who have been one of the, you know, like I think Minnesota Wilde are maxing out their talent. And, you know, good job by that organization, I think, of basically saying this is who we are. We're still a team in transition under GM Bill Garon, but we're going to play our asses off. That's the Minnesota Wild. But there's zero chance they win a playoff series in that division.

I'm sorry. Do you agree or not? Okay. Well, that means zero is a very low number. Not zero, but I mean, they're going to play Vegas or Colorado in the first round. I mean. No, it doesn't look good. All right.

I'll give them a 25% chance. How about that? 25. Well, you went from zero to 25. Well, because you made me feel guilty. 12.5. And I love the fans. the beautiful hockey fans of Minnesota.

No, that's great. No, that's it. That's the reality. You know, and that's why Bill Garrett and Minnesota didn't, no, he's not going crazy, making an ad just because they're locked into third plays. He understands. So, no, I'm with you. All right.

We're going to take a break. And then we're going to, of course, I never thought Columbus would be Tampa Bay a couple years ago either. So, I know. I gave them a 68% chance of winning that series. All right, that's not true. That is a series that I often think of 2018. Was that 18 or was that 19?

Whatever year it was. Must have been, whatever. Whatever year it was. Must have been 19. In 2019, I went 0 for 8 in my first round playoff predict. It was 19 because it was a year that Carolina knocked off Washington and double overtime game. I went 0 for 8 the first round.

So there you go. Predictions. You are a gentle soul for reminding everyone of that. All right. Yeah, it won't be the first time. I'm not afraid. I owned it. I'm not afraid of that.

I don't even do picks anymore. I sleep better at night. No, I know. Okay. All right. There's a couple of good questions here that help round out our post trade deadline discussion. It's a good one from, uh, Westhead, he wonders what didn't happen on deadline day that might happen this summer. So

something that maybe, you know, one or two, maybe something you're looking for, because we, and I'll give you some time to, you know, to think. But we talked about a guy like Bob Murray and Anaheim and he's, you know, Ricard Raquel, maybe, you know, or talked about, you know, players who return basically, you know, anyway, is there something you think, okay, yeah, I didn't think that would happen Monday, but let's circle back before the July draft. Well, first of all, before I answer specifically, great question, by the way. This offseason, again, like the Vegas offseason was when Vegas entered the league in expansion draft, this offseason is going to be dizzying.

Like, the management around this expansion draft, the impact of the flat cap, this is going to be a fascinating offseason. So way busier. than we had entering the trade deadline, first of all. I can tell you from talking to all these front offices, they're kind of holding their breath at what's coming here. But, yeah, there's Anaheim's a great example. I mean, Ricardo Raquel and Josh Manson in particular will have a year left on their deals after this year.

And so pretty obvious, either sign them to extensions or trade them because you're not letting them walk into the free agency and it's a team in transition, right? They've got a lot of good young pieces there in Anaheim. I got to think one of them gets dealt by money. on Raquel. Calgary is unbelievably fascinating to me. Again, they were never going to make big deals at this deadline. I don't know. Sam Bennett was a hockey deal, but the whole Johnny Gujo, Sean Monaghan question has to be answered this offseason either way, right? I mean, you have to decide once and for all if you're in for the long haul with these guys or not.

I suspect one of them gets dealt this offseason. Again, I could be wrong, but I think this is finally the time. Um, when the flames go on, yeah, go ahead. When the flames go five and oh against Montreal. Right,

that'll be a whole different. And go on to win the cup? Yeah, then then I'll take those words back. And when they knock off the Leafs in, uh, and Dave Richard, Ridditch in double overtime in game seven.

So anyway, no, I know, Buffalo. Obviously Buffalo is, uh, you know, Jack Eichel.

You know, you, you know, Kevin Adams has to sit down. Maybe the Pagula's with Jack Eichle or his camp after this season. and say, all right, what are we doing? Like, is your heart in this?

Are you committed to us? Do we need to move you? And by the way, it's not just, I was careful not to just make it a one-way conversation. It's not just about what Jack Eichol wants. What are the Sapers want? Yeah. You know, should they be trying to move him? So there's a pretty important conversation coming there.

And that would be obviously the murky name on the market in the off-season if they decide to go that route. Yeah. I got to tell you the team I'm fascinated by, did a little tinkering at the deadline, but again, another team that, you know, if the offseason looms large, but, man, Philadelphia, what passed in the standings by the Rangers? Speaking of wrong predictions, I thought they'd be right. My pick was that the Islanders and Flyers would battle for first in the east, so give me a 50-50 on that one. I was so wrong about the Flyers.

And, you know, in retrospect, I forget who told me this, but it's interesting. They have a fascinating roster in that. Their core players are either over 30 or under 25. They have very few players. I don't have it in front of me, but someone was telling me this, that most championship teams have a lot of their core players

between 25 and 30. And they have this interesting sort of the way this is all transitioned. A lot of young guys and a lot of young guys that struggle this year, but are going to be good players, right? And older guys. And so the point that was made is maybe we should have, when you looked at that, should have known that this might have been one of those step back years for them as they continue to. They basically need all those, you know, they need the young guys to take that next step.

And they clearly didn't happen this year. But let's also not, you know, you and I are both big fans and Carter Hart. Love having him on the podcast. He wrote a huge feature on him. He's going to be okay. but this was a disaster of a season. Yeah, no, it's true. Well, and that'll be the challenge when Chuck Fletcher and his staff sit down and, you know,

he sits down with A.V. and the coaching, like, there's so much to love about that team and the organization. And maybe part of what, you know, is when they sit down is, okay, we can't lose our minds, right? We have to accept that this was a train wreck and a huge step back. And yes, Carter Hart was, you know, he is still a kid. Oh, my God. He's 22 years old. For sure, for sure. Maybe that's part of what it is.

But I'll tell you, the Aussie, because, you know, the pressure. Like, and there should be pressure, right? I was with you. I thought an absolute lock to make the playoffs in the East. I thought they'd be at top two, maybe three. But I just, it never occurred to me. Well, it goes back to what you. were talking about Pittsburgh, are they a bubble team?

I just, I thought Philly was locked into that top three for sure. So anyway, I'm curious to see what I was. Yeah, and one of the things that they're going to have to figure out, and I think it might be the most important, well, they need to get another top four to find something that's obvious, but after Matt Niskin's retirement, but I think the single most important decision the Flyers make is finding a 1A1B-ish guy to compete with Carter Hart. I think Carter Art needs that.

And Brian Elliott has done a terrific job this year, but he's 36. I think they need an upgrade over Brian to really make this say, hmm, who's the number one guy in Philly? I think that's the push that Carter Hart needs. And so who is that guy? I mean, we always talk about the Golden Carousel, and I'm not pretending I have the exact answer here. But, you know, can you squeeze out a bit more from James Reimer?

Or is it a David Ridditch? Or is it Jonathan Bernier? I don't know. You try to figure out the guy, but they need to find that guy to come in and say there's a chance for you to play 40 games here and really push Carter Hart. I think that's going to be a really important thing for Philly. Yeah. It's interesting. All right. What we saw it was Simeon Varlamov and Thomas Greece last year. Grice, Grice. Grice. I like to call on Greece. All right. Final question here. There were a couple about the Winnipeg Jets, one from May Tway and another from Brayson. I'm going to go with this question, which I'm really curious about. Of course, the Jets bring in Jordie Ben.

But we talked a lot about that's a team that still needs a top four blue liner. And I don't think it really matters whether it's a right-hand shot or a left-hand shot. But somebody maybe just slide into that top four. Is there someone, the question is, which top-four defenseman do you think will land in Winnipeg this off season? You got any thoughts on that? That's interesting. Well, it's funny. We just mentioned Josh Manson.

I think Manson ends up signing an extension and playing his career in Anheim is what I predict. But he would have been such a good fit in Winnipeg. And I know the Jets had my understanding has had some interest in him. But, you know, he's got a no trade clause. I mean, who knows how all that played out. But, you know, he's an interesting guy. I still think at Combs a possibility. he was the original guy that I loved for Winnipeg.

As you know, Scotty, not just me. Because Nashville, who made the right decision to keep him now that they look like a playoff team or a chance to be a playoff team, it's actually, I think, and end up being more beneficial to the predators to wait until after the Seattle expansion draft to figure out ECHO. Because a lot of the teams that were interested in NECOM, even when Nashville were sellers for a short time,

we're really scared about what it was going to, how it was going to impact their ability to deal with Ron Francis if they traded for him, right? So I'm giving up these assets to get them, and then I've got to give up these assets to Ron Francis so that you don't take this, because now my third best defenseman becomes the guy I got to expose. Right.

So you wait until Seattle does its thing, and then you go to Acoma, to me, if I'm David Poyle in Nashville, and you offer what you believe is an extension that makes sense for the team, and he frankly has been underpaid. So this is why this is going to be a bit sensitive. He may say, no, I'm not signing that. Or he may sign it, by the way.

But if he says no and he's entering the final year of his deal, I think if you're David Poil, you have no choice. You have to trade him. And not only trade him after the expansion draft, but potentially allow, I believe his agent's Kurt Overhart, allow Kurt Overhart to sort of run the deal a bit with you. In other words, you might get more if you're, Nashville for Ekholm if he's actually traded as a sign as signing to a long-term deal with his new

team. So that's a big one for me and I would like Winnipeg to get in on that because I think he'd be an unbelievable fit in their top war. Yeah, I agree. And yeah, it's going to be, listen, it's going to be a blur, you know, the playoffs in, you know, call it five weeks or whenever. And then, of course, the late July expansion draft and the draft. Yeah, it's going to be, It's not going to be a lot of vacation time for you, my friend. I don't want to break it to you. I'll just push your little vacate into September. You just don't know that yet.

I haven't told you yet. All right. What else we got going on in the podcast world? How about this? Our good pal, Chris Johnson from Sportsnet, joins Jonas Siegel and James Myrtle on The Leaf Report. I saw CJ on TV last night. He is skinny as a rail.

He's been running like crazy through the pandemic. He's forced gum. Yeah, he's just going to say that. Run, CJ, run. I love that guy. I love that guy, too. All right. That's when we get, this is what, you know, I keep thinking about, you know, when life returns to normal or something.

You know, we're all going to get together sometime and it's not going to be pretty. And play shuffleboard. Yeah, we're going to do something. Also, Matt Hendricks, the assistant director of player development for the Minnesota Wild. joins Mike Russo this week on Straight From the Sword. Do you think Russo's gone through every single person who works for the while this year? No, I mean, that's his draw. I'm just saying.

I think it's amazing. And it's probably an honor to go on this podcast, right? If you work for the while, I would think. Oh, my God. Well, you'd be afraid not to you, right? Like, wouldn't you? Yeah. I'd be afraid.

If Russo calls me, and he never does. But if Russo calls me and says, come on the podcast, I'm making time. In fact, I'm blowing you off to go on Rousseau's podcast. Julie noted. Julie noted. That's right. Matt Hendricks is an outstanding human being.

Great. He was a great character guy, yeah. Yeah, no, it was great. You know what? And he finished up in Winnipeg. And I remember when we were there covering the Jets and Nashville, and they called him the, I want to say they called him the Tin Man or something like that. Because I remember sitting down with him in the dressing room, both his knees.

with these giant braces on. But man, they loved him there. Yeah, three years in Washington. I was checking to make sure my memory isn't as bad as he used to be. Edmonton, Winnipeg, Minnesota, beloved everywhere he played. True, true of that. Anyway, you should check that out on Mike Russo's podcast straight from the source. Okay, wrap it up.

It's been a long podcast. Let's go. Listen, I'm trying to get there. You started to talk about Forrest Gump. So anyway, you should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the athletic app. and rate and subscribe to the athletic hockey show on Apple. And if you aren't a subscriber, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a

subscription for just $3.99 per month. Do it. Yes. Good job by you, my friend, next week. Oh, it's going to be exciting next week. I don't want to say anything. No, just in case it goes off to rails. Yeah, don't say a word.

I won't say a word. But next week, going to be outstanding. So don't miss that. Very special edition of this podcast. All right, brother. Take care. Right on, right on.