The Athletic Hockey Show - U23 NHL player ranking and 2027 NHL Draft ranking

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

With eyes on the present and the future in today’s episode, the guys open things up by breaking down Corey’s summer best under-23 NHL player ranking and close things out with a deep dive into Scott’s first 2027 NHL Draft ranking of the year. In between, they debate the placement of players like Zach Benson, Tij Iginla, and Jake O’Brien on Corey’s list and discuss Landon DuPont as Scott’s No. 1 prospect and what Alexis Joseph must do heading into his QMJHL season.Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerWith: FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bulbin here alongside the athletics, Corey Promen and Scott Wheeler and Flohockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Packed show today. We got Corey's Top 100 U23 list. We got Scott's 2027 draft ranking. We're going to get to all of it. But we're going to start with Corey with your under 23 ranking for 2026. These include players who are in the NHL.

So you are going to hear some names of some current. NHL stars. For example, number one on this list, to no one's surprise, is Macklin Celebrini. But there's some interesting stuff that we're going to get to on this list. And in keeping with our show tradition, I'm going to turn it over to Scott and to Chris for a lot of this to drive where their biggest wow moments were on the list. So Scott, why don't you start off? What's the first thing on this list that really jumped out at you? Outside of Gabe Perrault, who we've talked about ad nauseum and isn't on Corey's list. That was the one that it didn't necessarily surprise me because of where

Corey has sort of stood in that conversation. But that's one, that was sort of the most egregious one to me. Like I would have Gabe Perot in the top, I don't know, 20 on this list, top 30, top 40 for sure, let alone off of it on a 150 player list. But the other one was actually Zach Benson at 124. That was the sort of non-per-ro. Like I think Ben's, like, I think Benz's. is closer to being a top 124 player in the NHL currently than he is to being a 124th ranked U23 skater.

So Benson surprised me. I thought Benson was arguably Buffalo's second best forward after Tage Thompson in the playoffs last year. And I'm just a big, like I think he's going to get Selky votes someday and be in the Selky conversation. He's one of the better two-way drivers. The points are going to come and the impact in all three zones is very, very real at an early. age. So Benson at 124 was probably the one after Perrault. I'm not sure whether we need to rehash Perrault yet again. I could do it, but we won't. We won't do it. Let's stick on Benson because that one stood out to me too, Corey. I look a little higher on this list and like Frank Naser,

I know he plays center. He's at number 39. I feel like Naser and Benson, similar size profiles, similar NHL impact. You could maybe argue that last year Benson was more impactful. So what what is the reason for the big gap there on the list to get to see, you know, Benson outside the top 100. Probably a skating differential there for me and the center probably would be the difference there. I think Nazar is like a high-end skater. I think Benson's an average 5-9 skater whose value is driven by his skill and his elite

competitiveness. So like with Benson and Perot and I think Chris wanted to have our 29th Lane Hudson conversation too and stuff like that. We don't need to like do this Groundhog day every six or 12 months, guys. I think we obviously have a fundamental disagreement on what a good NHL player is and what a winning NHL player is. Because I don't think that any of these guys are not great players and are not going to have a ton of points and are going to have long productive NHL careers. But I do have a fundamental disagreement on what wins in the NHL. And I'm sure some people will point to Carolina and say, Ahho and Stancovin and Blake and Jarvis.

And I would counter that. A lot of names. I was a big Aho fan. I was a big Jarvis fan. I was a big Stan Kovin fan because they're elite skaters and elite competitors. And Blake would be one in the win column for that kind of profile. That is not an elite skater for a small guy who was a massive contributor to a winning team. But I just feel like you're playing the odds in a pretty significant way.

And I just don't think that's what you build winning NHL teams on is small guys who don't skate well. And I feel like who don't skate in elite levels for small guys. Oh, but even like J.P. Hurlbert at 80, right? Like that's, yeah. And I don't think he has the competitive makeup that Benson does. And he's not a great skater. And Benson's kind of proven him. Yeah.

Again, Herbert's closer to 6-0 and I think also has high-end skill. I actually think it's reasonably competitive too. I just, like I said, I just have a real issue with that. And I will concede that Scott's completely right. He was outstanding in the playoffs. Like he was wow good. in the playoffs, but I'm looking at the long-term projection there. I see like a 50-point winger who works his ass off,

but I don't know if there's a lot more projection there from what he already is. Even if he's a 50-point two-way driver, like that is a high, high, high-end. That's a top six NHL winger on a good team. If he's like, that's Logan Stankovin, right? Like that's... Well, no. I just don't, I don't see the gap.

Well, Stancom is a center. That's the difference there. If you're putting that much into position, I think you're... Well, I do think there's a rarity component to that. Like, I think centers are so hard to find, right? And teams, if they wanted to find a 50-point winger on free agency, they can go out and get Victor Arvinson, right? And that's like, I think kind of a profile comp of what Corey is describing, 50 to 60 point, high motor. Arvinson might actually be a little bit better of a skater.

But I think for me, it's just I still see a lot of runway for Benson, right? And I think, you know, if he's a 60, I think he could be a 65 point, maybe even 70 point in his best years. Well, if that's the case, then I'm clearly off, but I don't see that level of offense. I especially think on that team, how much skill they have all around there. I wonder if he's going to get the opportunity to be that kind of point producer on that team. I think he might play with Tage all year this year, like the way that they have. Yeah, it's possible. I think, I think what it comes down to for me in some of these rankings and other things is like there is the abstract of what we,

don't know and there is what we have seen and I feel like there is an absence of current evidence that is I disagree is well why on earth would you have Zach Benson that low and J.P. Hurlbert in the 80s then like because I because I think that's just what the profile is because do you not value compete like how how much do you value compete then? Because if you say winning hockey and you say Zach Ben like is it just the skating then? Yes. To go with the size. I think the skating is a significant issue. It has long-term projection, I think.

Man, okay. Chris, you got one here? Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I think that the, I think that the issue is, is that we're, when you, what you see at the NHL level is, is, is, it's not really, it's not always confirmation. He's still early in his career. There's a lot that can happen. and there's ups and downs that can happen over the course. But I say when we see him in the setting that you are saying is a better value,

you know, like where there is value to be gained, which is to say a winning, you know, winning brand of hockey, I feel like Zach Benson had proven that over that time. Like we talked about him as a potential like down the road Olympics guy, not too many weeks ago where there's a, we, we had that discussion on this podcast. that he was a guy that could potentially never have mentioned that. That's crazy to me, but okay.

Well, then your memory holeing it because you didn't mention it, but we talked about the fact that this is a player. And like it comes down to all the different players on here where we're going to have these arguments. And I feel like some of the biggest arguments we're going to have is guys that are already proving it, guys that are showing an ability to do it.

The same thing could be said about Kindle where I have. I'm sure Penguins fans will lose their shit over that too kind of thing. Well, yeah, but I feel like with with, with Benson, we're having, we're seeing the trajectory. Like I'd say Kindle in my, like, I'm kind of more in line there because I feel like, okay, we saw the first year. Now we need to see the next step. I feel like Benson has elevated over the course of his career where the trajectory, I think is even like from where he was selected, now he's more in line with a top 10 pick as opposed to. Do you think like long term he's Marsha so or do you think there's a higher grade there?

I think, well, that's, that'd be a great place for him to be. I mean, that's certainly much higher than the player that you would say, a Kahn Smythe winner. Like, if that's, that's absolutely within the realm of possibility. I think that the scoring component, which you mentioned, is definitely one of those things where it's like, okay, we still have to wait and see totally on that one. But I also think that can be situational as well. Well, and I think he's going to score a lot. Like that's, like I said, this is where the divide is, is I've not discounting it. all these players have elite skill or great hockey sense that are going to score a bunch of points.

Like, I think, you know, we did this last year with Adam Fox, where I think he's going to have a bunch of NHL points over the course of his career. But it just comes down to what I would want to build an NHL team around. And there are certain traits that I would prioritize in certain positions I would prioritize. I just don't see how you wouldn't want one of the smarter, hardest working young players in the league. I do. As a part of your team. better. I love his

skill. I love his compete. I think his, like I said, there were some times when I watched him in that's playoff run where I thought he was outstanding. Like, he made some tremendous plays inside the offensive zone. But if he's been outstanding at any point in his NHL career, he's not 124 on any U-23

list of years. Like that's, the way you're talking about him, I don't think lines up where he actually had him slotted. Two shitty teams, two shitty playoff caliber teams. It was like the Bruins were not a good playoff team. The haves were not a good playoff team. like, when they got to, when they played against Carolina,

they got exposed. You have David Edstrom. The other guy I was going to bring out, you have David Edstrom 43. David Edstrom scored eight goals in the H.L. last year. He had 20 something points in the H.L. last year.

You have him 80 spots higher. Like there's, yeah, I don't know. Well, Edwin's a projection one. I really liked how he, you talk about playoffs. I liked how he looked really at the end of the year. They're from Milwaukee.

He was playing like 20 minutes a night, power play, penalty kill. It's played well against men in the SHL, you know, played well with the national team. I like the, I think there will be more, I think there will be offense there to go with a six three guy who can move who can compete to play both ways. Obviously, that's clearly projection based. Yeah, there's no NHL evidence. He may even play in the NHL this year. Like, there's a lot of projection there.

But obviously, I like the player a lot and I have for years. So I don't think that one should have surprised you guys too much. Listen, I get it. Like, I understand where you guys are. I understand I'll get ripped for this. again, I just have a clear philosophy that there's certain lines in the sand that are hard for me to get past when it comes to what I would value in an NHL player. Yeah. No, look, that is a philosoph.

It's a valid philosophical, like, quibble, right? Like, we're all going to prefer slightly different elements here. Let's go to another guy who kind of, I think, fits that smaller score or profile with maybe not quite the same level of compete. but Tija Ginla, Scott, is another one that you kind of flagged. And he's at number 79, Corey. Yeah, obviously another guy who he's very skilled. I'm curious why Scott thought he was too low. Like, do you think the hockey sense is tremendous there, Scott?

Do you think his speed is tremendous? Like, what do you think I'm off on there? I think the skill, scoring, hands, attack mentality profile is legit. I think he's got a chance to be a first line top six score in the league and score 35 goals every year. Like I think that's the kind of talent for you. I don't know whether there's a clear NHL comp because he kind of does it in this like pretty unique, ferocious kind of a way. It's not a good start to this conversation. I don't think he needs to have a comp.

Yeah. No, it doesn't. I think that's part of the mistakes here. That's part of the issue that I have. But he's not 5-8, he's 6-0. There should be like a bunch of guys. He's 6-0. He's an excellent skater.

He was one of the two or three most dangerous players in junior hockey over each of the last two seasons. He, in his age group at the world junior level was dangerous. Like, he's, he's an excellent, excellent skater, which is something that you value. I don't see what. I think it's a good skater. I think he's a very good skater. I think he's a very good skater. Well, then that's the disconnect there because that's not what I've seen.

So if you thought, if you saw. that, then yeah, if I buy getting him higher, I think he's a good, but not an elite skater. What kind of player do you envision T-Jez as in the NHL? Like a middle six goal scoring, competitive player, like 20 to 25 goals,

50-point winger, and again, winger. So that's, when I, we're talking about average-sized wingers, like that profile to me is just so invaluable. Not invaluable. It is so common that I have a hard time, like, really elevating the premium, unless you think they're 70, 80, 90 point type of guys.

I think 30, 30, 60 is like a very, very baseline projection for Teage. Like, I think he gets there without much trouble. I think he gets there. I don't know if he stays there. That's my concern. And on that team, there's going to be a lot of, it's going to be hard for him to get those minutes too, but that really goes into the projection. They kind of need, that team kind of needs a one-shot score.

I think they actually need Teach. yeah, but like they need they need more more of that juice. Like they, I think they've got a lot of very competitive, well-rounded, solid top nine NHL players. I think they need a start, like another star to emerge there. And I think he's more likely to be that than than Dainway. Dainwe is a center and he brings other elements. So the value is different there.

But in terms of like that, that next offensive piece for them, I think that guy, it needs to be teach and I think it will be him. It is kind of true. So that like when you look at the guys who, are not 80, 75 plus point guys. Like, there's usually a major other element there, whether it's like a physicality with like a, like a Ryan Leonard, I guess would kind of have that profile.

And he's, I think closer to the neighborhood, Scott, that you would probably have a Ginla in the 30s here. But I don't think a Ginla has that level of, you know, physical dimension to his game. So it is, it does become a little bit more that tweener type where I think guys like that end up a lot on a lot of second lines. Like Nick Schmaltz kind of actually. I guess Nick Schmalt is on the first line in Utah right now. So maybe that's a point in your favor. I just think the skill and the shot is high end. The skill level on the puck is high end.

The skating is extremely strong. I don't think there's almost anything holding other than health has been the question mark. If the hips are in the rear view. I think it's played making is kind of average too. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that I like, yeah, my argument on this particular one, it really wasn't necessarily in favor of Tija Gimlin.

I thought he was kind of in the right spot on the, list here. It's more of the, you know, the statistical, like, there's certainly going to be statistical comparables and other things like that, but I feel like if we're looking, if we're constantly looking for, you know, you want to find NHL similarities. You want to find guys that kind of play in that way and see what, you know, what he can be. But I also think that at times we're too focused on that. And then, you know, we run into situations like we do with other players that we'll talk about on this list where it's just like, okay, well, he is different. from the rest of that category.

He's an outlier within that particular category. I wouldn't say that's true of Teage in this particular instance, but I do think that the opportunity, like, for him to grow here is good. But yeah, I would say actually the injury stuff is one of the concerning things just in terms of where he's at in his trajectory and where he goes. So that's where I would tend to agree in this area. I ask the comps question, and I get with like with the guys who are like on the extreme parts of the spectrum, especially with terms of size.

Like you've got the 5-8, 5-9 guys, what, the 6-6-7 guys. It's hard to find those comps because there are so few regulars in the NHL who fit that. But I ask the comps for like an average-sized guy like Teesh because if I hear the comp, I can understand where you think it's going to go.

And then I can say, oh, I agree that he looks like that player, maybe I'm wrong or I disagree he looks like that player for X, Y, and Z reasons. That's why I ask that question. Not because you need to have a comp, but it's it's easier to have this debate when you can get to that point as opposed to the saying no you're wrong or no you're right it doesn't doesn't really i feel like it just connects the dots easier yeah i say that's i say that's fair and i think like in the in the in the instance of tige i think i think there are like you could just there are a lot of guys like you like it's not like where the comp like a one-to-one comp is like he he kind of almost feels like to me at least and and and

this in Scott you may disagree but to me at least he does feel more like that run of like more run of the mill potential you know middle six with an opportunity to be a second line score what about like Matt Coronado I think he's got I think he's got he's got he's got he might even have a little upside offensively yeah I have a little more jam too what about like Troy Terry that was that was the one I used in his that was the one I used in his draft year for what it's worth yeah I think he's got and that was thinking kind of be that second line score who can play on a first line sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. I was thinking Kempi at the high end. Kempi's like 6.3 though, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the difference is Kempi's an elite skater. I don't see that with T's, but that's Scott's evaluation. Let's go to Montreal, Corian.

And I agree we don't need to redo Lane Hudson for the fifth time in the calendar year here. But three Montreal Canadians in your top 11, Urii, Slovkovsky at number four, Ivan Demitov at number eight, Lane Hudson at number 11. All three of those are actually in different tiers. So Slevkovsky's the last guy in the NHL star tier, the meetoffs and the bubble star top of the lineup and Hudson solidly top of the lineup player here.

I'm less worried about how you have the three ordered and more just about three in the top 11 feels really historically significant here. I think after San Jose, I think Montreal has arguably the brightest future of any NHL team right now. I think you look at just how they built that power play and Nick Suzuki still, you know,

in his prime. Cole Coughfield's very young. It's just a really, you know, it's an exciting young team right now. And they've got, you know, guys coming. I like Alexander Sharovsky a lot. I like Pugachev. You got Michael Hage. You got two really young goalies in Ned and Dobish and Fowler.

David Reimbacker, I still think, is a very good young player, even though he's probably not a fifth overall type of player. I mean, you look at this team overall, and I think it's very well positioned to become a contending team in the near future. the one real hole is kind of at second line center, and they're going to hope that's Michael Hage. You don't have Michael Hage as high on this list. How would you go about filling that hole for Montreal?

They're a team that just went to the conference final. They would have every incentive to try to make a trade for a right now second line center, or would you let Hage kind of try to win that job? I think Hage, I think he could be it, but he probably wouldn't do an excellent job at it, but there's a chance he could be a second line center. I think there's a good chance he could be a second line wing or a third. line center. But like, you know, usually when you see like trade proposals online and how you

would go acquire top six center, it's usually fantasy land crap. But I think Montreal legit has the assets, like premium young assets. Like I don't even like, like, where's Jacob Fowler going to play? Dobish has become a really good player. Like, is he good, is he for sure a goalie of the future? You think is going to get 60 starts? Maybe, maybe not. You know, you've got these young Russians who are really good players. I think even in the American League, like Adam Engstrom was really good last year. I think they absolutely have the assets to go and make a deal for any center that gets on the market and have the winning bid.

And I know that happens very rarely. Obviously, you're in a market max where that seems to be one of the rare cases that's happening. And I know the early reporting is that that's not a place that Larkin would want to play. but I don't know, man. Like, I kind of, I'd want to play there. Like, it looks like they, it looks like they have a lot of fun. They score a lot of goals. Like, I feel like they haven't.

Two excellent young goalies. Yeah, they, you know, they have the assets there, I think, to go and get that second line center at some point in the next year or two. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because we don't see a lot of kind of Americans seemingly wanting to go to Canadian markets, but I'll just, like, Montreal is my favorite city in North America. I love Montreal. and if you want to win,

Montreal has a good place to win. So, you know, we'll see what happens with Larkin and with that list, but I'm not ruling it out. Yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating situation. And, like, I think the only thing I would argue with Corey on is just, like, I think that we're talking about all of these guys being stars in the, in the, in the, in the start. I'd probably have them in the star tier.

Hudson for sure, Demadov, probably. And, you know, I think that it's really the one thing that, you know, Corey that I would say when we're talking about what builds winning teams. Okay, so these are, we're talking about the core. You think of Caulfield, Suzuki, these guys here, with the exception of Slavkovsky, you know, in terms of team building, what is the one thing that all these guys seem to have in common? It's not. It's a concern. They're not big, you know. I think the way they build out their blue line from here, it's going to be important.

that second line standard is going to be important of it. If it's like a Larkin, like that's a massive different type of player, a tough minutes matchup type of player. Yes. Yes. You know, I think I still like Gully. Like, maybe you hope Ryan Bacher could become that big two-way defensemen that could play legit minutes and they still need more. Like I don't think, I said near future, it's not tomorrow. Right. I don't think they can tend tomorrow. But I think in the next couple of years, as these guys can need to age and the management group's been very patient. They're going to have cap space to work with here. They can add those kind of players that can play a different type of role, but they have the offense. Like, that power play is going to be lethal for the next decade.

Yeah, I mean, they're, they're a super impressive group. I mean, and I think like looking, looking at where they were, I feel like they've been a bit ahead of schedule in terms of their growth. But yeah, I mean, you look at some of the assets, you know, the guys that are kind of in that second or that next tier of prospects with, you know, Zorovsky, Rinebacher, Pugachev, Um, you know, that's where I think, okay, well, you do have some assets that you could potentially use in other deals to, to solve some of these problems. I think the one thing that everybody kind of gets locked into is how important prospects are. And I think as we've seen from other teams that have had success, it's that you don't get too precious about those prospects. You let them be assets. You've already got your core guys. Like, I'm not saying you would move any of, you know, Slavkovsky or Hudson or Demadov or anything like that.

But just because those guys are good prospects, you know, like I think the question is, is how much value does Ryan Bacher have at this point? How much value is, you know, like if they know you're in a bad position with Fowler, like, you know, how could you potentially? I personally would not move Jacob Fowler. No, I don't think it's a bad position. I think they're slayed to be like 40-40 right now kind of thing. But at some point, you've got to pick one to roll within the playoffs.

And it looks, and last year it was Dobish. Dobish. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, it's an interesting, it's an interesting case that they're in here in terms of like the next steps of the building process is going to be really fascinating because they did a lot of the things right in terms of the draft. You know, you get lucky at some points. Hudson, you know, being probably where from where he was drafted to what he has done for that team. Those are good positions to be in. And really, you know, we saw Slavkovsky really bloom last year and, and blossom into this, this real, you know, legitimate top of the lineup, you know, quality player that could be a dominant force. So, yeah, I mean, gosh, they're in, they're in such a good position. I think it's, it's a great time to be a Montreal Canadiens fan. All right.

Before we move on, Scott, you had one more. I think you wanted to hit. Yeah, the only other one was, I was a little surprised to see Jake O'Brien at 22. Jake's a very, very good player, but there were guys lower down, Will Smith, Wyatt Cullen, who kind of fit into that. Are they a center? Are they a wing? They're skill guys.

I think O'Brien and those two guys in particular, Colin and Smith, are sort of direct comps for each other. Obviously, O'Brien's a little bit bigger at 6'1, 6.1 and a half. But I was surprised to see the gap between those three players because I think there's a higher upside offensively in particular for Smith and Smith and Colin. And I'm just not fully convinced of what Jake O'Brien is. Like I think there's a chance that Jake O'Brien's more of a complimentary sort of middle of the lineup guy. And I think Will Smith and Wyatt Cohen are going to be playing right at the top of the lineup. Will Smith obviously already is. But I do think there's some risk.

I view some risk in Jake O'Brien's projection. Interesting. I thought I'm surprised you aren't like super high on it. He feels like the kind of guy. you usually would love, like, I feel like his skill level is, like, pretty elite. I don't see elite skill level in Jake. Like, the poise and the calm on the puck is, is very, very high end. But I would say that it's high end in Will Smith and Wyatt Cullen as well.

And I just haven't seen him, I've seen him play a ton in Brantford over the last three years. And I just haven't seen him, like, absolutely dominate, dominate, dominate games in the way that Will Smith did in college or at the program or in the way that Wyatt Cullen did towards the end of that year. Obviously, we have less data on Colin, so we'll see what Colin looks like in college this year. But maybe I'm just higher on Will Smith. I don't know. But it felt like those three players felt like they should be sort of closer bunched together.

And I would have O'Brien third among that group of three. They are all in a tier. They are all in the same tier. That's where I was going to go with this is I feel like that's one of the interesting part of doing these kind of prospect exercises is the gap between. and 20 is giant. The gap between 40 and 120 like we did earlier is jai is pretty significant. But there's between like 20 and 35 or 25 and 40 is like almost nothing. So if we were a scouting staff and we were, let's say we were in a draft room, this is not a draft. Let's say

Will Smith and O'Brien were in the same draft and I got outvoted three to one. I'd be fine with it. I think Will Smith's an excellent player. I think they're close enough. I had some preferences in terms of the way O'Brien plays. I think he has good interior offense to go with the exterior skill. I think I like the size, like the skating. I like that. But I, I understand, like, that Smith and Cullen are a little bit more dynamic. And, like, they have, like, that higher-end creativity more, like that edge more than O'Brien does. So, like, I get it. Like, I don't think it's unreasonable what Scott's saying. We're also recording this, you know, a week after Wyatt Cullen just was one of the best players at the World's Year's Summer Showcase. So that probably colors a little bit

of how we're looking at this list as well. Yeah. I mean, O'Brien just went 10. O'Brien was, what, the seventh or eighth pick like a year before that. Like I'm surprised like that Scott feels so strongly about that one. But I'm a trait. I, yeah, this is one that jumped out a little bit to me too because I just think that that while Jake has size and other things,

I think he's a bit of a sleepy player. You know, I think that I think there's a lot of. He is sleepy, but I think he's competitive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like, you know, certainly watching him in the playoffs last year. Um, I thought that there were like, you know, he was getting his point. he was doing his things. I didn't necessarily see a guy that was ever, you know, I wanted him to take more games over.

I wanted him in what Scott was saying, be a little bit more dominant. And there were times where I was like, gosh, Caleb Malhotra played a heck of a lot better than he did. And was often, even though Caleb had a lot of points on the power play, I thought that he was impacting the game in more ways. And so, you know, I think that guys like Jake are going to be really interesting to watch because I think that he has the hockey sense, the skill,

the other things to potentially go in a lot of different direction. directions. I still, you know, just in terms of like if I think any player that we say is like in the top 25 or top 30 of a list like this is going to get a little bit of extra scrutiny. And that's where I would see like kind of understand that. But he's one of those guys where I feel like there is a lot of different ways things can go for him. And I do have at least some moderate concerns about kind of the next step for him because I don't see a player that's ready for the NHL. Well, he could go to the American League now, right? He could go to the American League, which I think would probably be the next logical step for him. So I do think that that's, but it's like that is the way that he plays, there is going to be an adjustment period to that. We've seen it with a lot of different players. I think we saw it a bit with Brayden Yeager at times last year. We see other players that they've needed to make that adjustment.

It's a little bit tougher. So I do think that the path ahead for him is a little bit rockier at this point. One more thing before we go to break. This isn't really a debate, but Chris, you pointed it out as we were prepping for the show. the 12-13 back-to-back of Cutter-Goti and Porter-Martone feels designed in a lab to get Philly fans talking there. Yeah, and I know for sure that it wasn't, Corey, in your defense, I know for sure that wasn't, but that was one of the things where I'm just like, oh, that's good. And it's a one-spot-d-D-A-12, Porter-Mortone at 13.

But I think it does, you know, Cutter-Gotee scored 40 goals last year. You know, I mean, like, I think that a lot of the questions that we had about Cutter-Gotee and where he was going to go as a player have started to be answered by last season. Was he, you know, I think there were hockey sense concerns. I think there were, you know, compete at times concerns. I feel like we've seen a player that has taken that next step. Meanwhile, Porter Martone is a player I'm very high on. I'm not saying that I'm not going to argue with the order.

I just like that Cutter is one spot ahead of Porter. I thought that we needed to call it out. if only to put the Flyers fans back in Corey's mentions. I think that the Martone is a great example of where you don't want to get too distracted by position. To our earlier conversation. Because I think the conversation with Philly going into that draft last year is they need a center, they need a center, they need a center. And they don't take a center despite the fact that Hagen's and O'Brien were both on the board.

They take Martone. And to me, it's not even close between those guys. Agreed. I think Martone's clearly ahead of those guys. Agreed. Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing is like, you know, Philly in losing Goce, you know, I don't think that they got necessarily the best value in return relative to what he was going to become. But then you get into Porter Martone. Now it would be great to have both, right? You know, it would be great to have that. But like that obviously wasn't going to happen. And I think they drafted Gocee envisioning him as a center too, which they're still searching for. Correct. Yeah, exactly in that. And yeah, Cutter is probably much, we kind of talked about it. He's probably much more a goal scoring winger than he was ever going to be, you know, a true center. So I'm really, I'm really excited to just kind of watch Porter this year. I think that he's one of those guys that has legitimate Calder Trophy potential. I think getting that little taste of the NHL last season, I think is so important for some of these guys. I think back, you know, a lot of guys will get that little taste. It gives them such an idea of where they need to get to. he goes, you know, has a chance to play in the world championships, do other things like that.

You know, I think Porter Martone has a chance to really rise up this list in the next year based on what he does, but there's still, you know, there's still a long way to go. There's a lot left to see. And also, I'm not doing this age group again next year. So that would be a little difficult. Good for you. But, okay, then I, somebody will have to. Maybe I'll do it.

Well, what's interesting, though, and Philly is going to be one of the most interesting teams this year in terms of all the different ways that this can go for their rebuild. With got, you know, Martone, obviously, coming in as the rookie. What's Mitchcoff going to do this year? Like, this feels pivotal for him. And a lot went right for that team down the stretch. Like, we've talked about this, Corey. Like, it's a very interesting year.

I was surprised how much people piled on to Breyer for saying they might take a step back. But I feel like when you look at the underlying numbers that Vladish kind of had the year of his life essentially in net, it kind of feel like that's a baseline expectation that they may not be a playoff team next year. Right, right. Yeah. And I think that's important. I think that's actually an important expectation to set is that sometimes these year-to-year

results are not really indicative of where a team is. Like I just said like even Montreal, who had a good season, they were ahead of schedule of where we thought they would be. I think Philly was not was definitely ahead of schedule. Anaheim too. Yeah, and Anaheim and they're there and they're all teams that have a chance. Well, I think Montreal is going to take another step forward. I think gold tending often makes things look a little different than they actually are on the surface.

It really does. And that's, and that, especially with the flyers last year, I mean, Vladr got, you know, he got Hart Trophy notes last year. You know, not that I would have given him one, but either way, it's still like nothing. It's never linear unless, you know, you, I think like, even Anaheim is going to probably take maybe a marginal step back next year. Philly, it's, it's definitely possible. So, yeah, it's interesting.

The one thing I'll say with Philly is that as good. as Vlodar was, Erson was worse. And so swapping Swapping Erson for Joseph Wohl will insulate against a bit of a regression from your starter. Presuming it's healthy.

Presuming, but Woll has never had trouble staying healthy for 30 games. It's staying healthy for 50 games that I think is the larger concern. But if Joseph Woll is playing 30 or 35 games for you, you're probably getting excellent backup goaltending. Right. Yeah. And also expecting

Vladar to repeat like with with very little evidence that that's his baseline is tough. And Michikov, Michkhov's a very flawed player. Who knows what he's going to look like this year. But Michikov basically had the worst year you could possibly have and still had 50 points. So if that's like, if that's the year from hell, you would hope that there's, that Michikov is going to come back and be. I agree. And I think he is going to come back with a vengeance.

But I said the same thing you're saying right now about Alias Petterson two years ago. So sometimes it does just flatten out. So we'll see, we'll see which way that goes. take a quick break right there. Go ahead, Corey. And they also now, with Martone, they have yet another young weapon and there's only so many power play spots. Yes.

Yeah. But I think, you know, I think that's more sophomore slump from Mitchcoff. And I think we see enough of those to think, all right, you know, throw that one out and kick it off. But if it gets off to a slow start, it's going to be a microscope in Philly, no doubt. We'll take a quick break right there. We'll come back. And Corey's been in the hot seat. We're going to slide Scott into there as we go through his 2027 draft ranking.

All right. we're back and we're going to go now to Scots 2027 NHL draft ranking. Well-timed. We're coming off the Halinka Gretzky Cup last week and we obviously did the check-in episode a week ago. But now we've got the full body work from the Halenka and we'll broaden it out. Obviously, there's a lot of guys in this class who are not at the Halenka. So, Corey, I'll give the first word to you here.

What's the first thing that jumps out to you on Scott's list? You know, there's a dozen things I disagree with, quite frankly, this early in the process. the first thing that I thought like I thought DuPont 1 you know that makes sense to me Privalov 2 that makes sense to me I have that's the one two I probably would have at this stage right now um sportsov at 3 definitely jumped out to me and I buy the high end skill there like he was outstanding in the MHL playoffs last spring um 6 oh 6 1 winger with good not great foot speed for me and to get him ahead of like guys like Sunstrom but especially Noah Jonah Nushwander, who I think both are like potential top six centers in the NHL,

I kind of want to hear Scott's thought process there because Nunchwander, in particular, to me, just looked so good at the Hulinka and has a lot of tools and pro experience and pro success, quite frankly. Like, how would you parse those two? Yeah, those three are obviously back to back to back, three, four, five on my list. And two of them play center. My challenge that I've had with both Sondrum and Neuschwander is that I don't know that there's a first line player or first line offense in either of those two players. And we talked

about about that with some of these kids the last time we had a conversation about this class. Jonah is a very, very good pro prospect. Milan is a very, very, very good pro prospect. I haven't seen high-end skill from any of those guys. And part of the reason I have sports have three is just because I haven't seen high-end skill, frankly, from any of that, like, I like a lot of the centers and a lot of the centers in this class are going to go early, Jonah. Milan, Sammy Nelson, like there are some very good 6-2, 6-3, 195-pound, well-rounded,

excellent center prospects in this class, and they may well finish ahead of Sportsov. But Sporzov is really the only like premium, premium skill guy that I've seen in this class. And I think he's going to have an absolutely gigantic draftier. And if he does it in the KHL, we'll see whether he does it in the KHL and produces in the KHL, but I think from a pure skill standpoint, he's the most purely skilled

on the puck one-on-one individual playmaker that I've seen in this class. And I think if he points and produces like I think he will, that will probably put him at the very least in the conversation with all those excellent sort of two-way second-line center projections that I have on those other guys, but could well put him ahead of them. So there's some projection happening. But you're not saying he's in the conversation. You have him ahead of a guy who, like, nonch-wide. one at 12 points in what 30 nLA games last year like he's six three you can skate like that's

that's a unique player for me right there like you don't see guys play in one of those top men's leagues at 16 and really have success have you ever seen him make like a highlight real play no like a high end high end skill play and are you convinced are you convinced he's a center like he played all of those games in the nL last year on the wing he obviously played center at hoinka yeah i think so I think with his size, his skating, his compete, he's a second-line center in the NHL. What's interesting, why does Russia not produce centers?

I mean, maybe this is taking a tangent here, but like, I have one this year. This one, they have the first one in like forever this year. Yakunan, like he's, now mind you, he just signed a five-year extension in the KHL, so you won't see him for a very long time. But when he does eventually get here, he does, he's like probably their best set of prospects since Grigorenko. Nazar, it was due to injury, but. Privolov did play, like, I think it was nine or ten games in a row in the middle of last season down the middle,

and then he was back on the wing for the rest of the year. But it's just interesting because I get it with like Panarin and Caprizov and some of these like smaller skill guys. But I look at like the physical profiles of Privalov and squartz off. And I go like this, your national team is going to need centers. Like why are you not funneling guys of this type down the middle? It's a cultural thing there. Like I think in the North America when you're a good athlete, they put you at center. They put you on defense.

in Russia, if you're a top athlete, you're put on the wing or you're put in goal. Yeah, the goal. I mean, that actually makes a lot of sense because Russia produces goalies as well as anybody. All right, let's go to another spot on this list, Scott. And this one's less favorable. Lexi Joseph was a name that we expected to be talking about at the very top of this class. I think for at least about a year now, we've hoped that he could kind of be the quitting by field of this class. And as we get into the draft year, Arrow does not seem to be trending that direction. He started in the top six at Halinka and then by the gold middle game finished on the fourth line there. And I think the challenge that everybody is kind of having with

Alexi right now is that here is this sort of six foot three, six foot four, 210 pound kid who was a first overall pick into the QMJHL and had a very respectable 60 point season in the QMJL and a low scoring St. John team where he was one of their top players as a 16 year old last year. And yet you just watch him and he can be frustrating to watch. And he's not quite sort of like the Ryan Rubric frustrating to watch that some people had an issue with in last year's draft. But just I want to see him move his feet way more. Like there's a lot of standing around. I think the skating is average or maybe slightly below. Corey raised the hockey IQ the last time we talked about him. He's big and he's skilled and he can and he can make plays. And he's a, he's a summer

birthday, so you're couching in some projection. He's one of the younger players at the top of this list. There's a lot of sort of late 08s and he's a late 09 and there's a lot that you have to consider with Alexi. But man, oh man, there are people in speaking with scouts coming out of Halinka and even coming out of U18s, there are people who are very frustrated watching him play. And when that lingers, teams will just write you off. So he's got to go and absolutely dominate in the QMJL now, I think, to hold on to the status. And frankly, I thought about having him he's the last player in tier two i thought about sliding him into that sort of third tier and and putting him closer to 10 11 than i did where i ultimately finished on him which was

six where did you end on him the last the overall number six yeah you have him higher than i have him right now like yeah like he was so bad at the holy god like and it's like you're questioning the hockey sense questioning his compete like there was i don't have issues of the skating actually i think it's fine for a guy his size. But I think, like, yeah, you're like, one mega play, and it just wasn't, just never happened. He made one nice assist with kind of like a scene pass that was kind of like the whole bit up there for him.

And he kind of hit it on the power play, I think. But otherwise, you know, his only goal was puck went off his ass and in. And, like, it just was a very, you know, he just kind of looked overwhelmed at times. I feel like the moment kind of got the best of him. Like, I feel like by the end there, you know, he's getting lower down. on the lineup and you're feeling the pressure a little bit. I was talking about it. You know, I'll be really curious to see how he does.

We go back to St. John. He's the guy and the put up. How flows the room on the power play. And he has a high and skill guy and Jamie Glantz to play with. You know, I could see him easily have like a 190, 100 points season in the queue. But I also could see this go like a Kirby Doc way where like it's,

I could also see people showing up. And I think Glantz will make him better. But I could see people showing up there and loving the way that Jamie Glantz plays. and that making it even more frustrating watching Alexei Joseph side by side. Yeah, it's always hard with these guys, these early season guys. And the profile is almost always the same, where it's just, you know, bigger guy, physically dominant all the way up. And now, you know, the game speeds up, things change. You know, there's a lot of different things.

I mean, like, we're not that far removed from him having 13 points at the U17 world. I was going to say, I thought he looked like baby Malkin at that event. Like he was not just, he didn't just get his points. He was dominant. Like he was like the guy there. He made plays every time he got near the puck. And that's why it's almost like so stunning in just a couple of months to see how far removed he's become playing against those very same players. I had brass from that U-17 team coming out of that tournament saying they thought he was like a first overall pick.

Yeah, that that was where a lot of the post, yeah, like the. Hey, DuPont's got a, got a challenger here. And I think it's important to remember to just the, the development curve and the way things work and how, you know, where a player is relative to, you know, U-17. Because it happens all the way up. You see it every step of the way. Going down to youth hockey all the way up is that there are going to be players that are exceptional at that age and they don't progress as fast as everybody else. I think my concern with with Alexi at this point is the pace of play. You know, in the QMJHL, he should have, you know, everything ramps up internationally.

You consolidate the players. Things are going to be a little bit faster, move a little bit. He's going to have to find a way to get up to that level. And that's going to be the challenge for him. I think he's in the right place to get, you know, to get that, you know, continue to get up to speed. But I think there's a lot of work that's going to have to be done by the St. John staff to really help him elevate because there is a clear, I don't think it's plateauing, like straight up plateauing, but I think there is a clear passing that it's happening right now that he's going to have to get control of

developmentally this year. Real quick, it is interesting, Scott, that like, you know, I feel like the character of this class is the centers. Like, that's what we're expecting to be talking about for the next year is all the centers in this class. But as we talk about it, like, you're talking about Sunstrom and New and Schwander, like, is it clear first line ability, Joseph kind of trend in the wrong way? There's more guys here, Brock England, Sammy Nelson, Carter Meyer.

Like, we're going to get to more of them. But it is maybe more of a volume center class than like a premier, as was like the Badard Fantilli Carlson class where you had these three studs at the top. Yeah. And I mean, even Will Smith in that age group too, right? Like, I do, it's early. Like, one of those guys may well emerge. Like, what if, what if Noiswander goes and has 25 or 30 points in 40 games in the

NL this year? Like, you're having a different, I think, at that. point. If he's, if he's like 0.7 points per game and he's a star at the world juniors, like maybe, maybe he's that guy. I do wonder a little bit about Milan's feet. Like, I would sort of qualify them as sort of average just below as well. Um, so I don't know whether they have that next deal. Maybe, maybe one of, maybe Sammy Nelson is one of the best freshmen in college hockey at Notre Dame. Like there are, there is a path for some of these guys to take a step. And it is very early. But yes, I think at this stage, you're on the right track.

Max where it's it's not they're very very good pro prospects are they sexy center prospects I'm not sure they are at this stage so we did talk about DuPont a week ago and Audrey he had a good metal round he had a good round robin he had a good round robin his metal round round was outstanding like he looked like baby Caleb Carr there like it was um like he was out he was excellent but isn't the problem that he doesn't look like baby he looks like full grown yeah I know it is a It is a... I think that is an element of his evaluation. Like, you see him around the ring.

He is... He's built, like, a brick shit house. Like, he's already there physically in a way that Quinn Hughes and Kel McCar were not at that age. But he's... I think, I obviously have him in a tier of his own. Like, I think Landon is the premier prospect in this class. Yeah. I think the risk is going to be, like, 510, 511 defensemen.

He is 511, sorry. He got measured at the length of East 511. Important distinction there. Yeah, it is. Every inch matters. Like, you know, not many of those guys have success, but there's between talking about those guys in the second round or the third round or the late first where there's a lot of needs to go right.

He's an exceptional skater, exceptional hockey sense. He's competitive. Like, he has all the tools to be a guy who you're comfortably projected to make the NHL. The thing about Landon, too, is everything is early. Like the instincts are instantaneous, and he takes plays early, and he attacks early. And when he's on, he is commanding all three zones. He's the best player on the ice.

He's like, it's not a sit back and let the game come to me. Like, he can take over games. And I think at Michigan, they're going to allow him to play that style. And I think he's got a real chance to be a star in college hockey right away and kind of put the conversation to bed if he is. Especially if the Russians emerge as the Russian. real challengers, it will just be, and I think Peters made this point on a previous show, it will just be impossible for a team to take them over Landon with the contracts being what they are and everything that comes with taking a Russian first overall.

Like it's just, it's going to be, you're going to need a Jonah or a Milan or one of these other guys to emerge as a challenger, I think, more than the Russians, even if the Russians are the quote unquote better prospects. Yeah, although I do think of if it's per of a law, I feel like people will find creative ways to get him out of that contract if he is that, that good. But I get what you're saying. If you go that early. If you go that early.

Yeah. And just to, you know, like the thing with Lannon, I think the important part about him, he's going to the right place for him to find, like, he needed that next step. He needed that next challenge to prove a little bit. You think Michigan's power play will be good this year? It might be okay. It might be okay. It might be a little good.

But, you know, like, it's not even just about going to Michigan. I think going to the college route for him is going to allow him to kind of take that step in terms of, you know, the competition. It's going to be a very difficult big 10 this year. The Michigan State Michigan games are going to be absolute must see for everything. You know, I can't wait to watch every single one of those matchups because I think it's going to be great. Yeah, Michigan, Denver, like there's there's a lot of great games on the calendar this year

to kind of see these guys going up against some of their peers. And as we see the consolidation of talent that's happening in college hockey right now, you're starting you know the the level that you have to get to is only higher than even than it was last year I would say so I think there's a lot of of good things happening there the what I would say about this class though as we talk about DuPont and the Russians and the other things is as I look at this group and we talked about you know the volume of centers as opposed to the quality of centers I'm looking at this class and I'm starting to feel similar things to some of the things that I felt over the course of last season with the exception of liking the defenseman in that, you know, while I feel like we have, you know, this definite kind of number one guy,

it's almost by default because I don't, there's nobody in this class. I mean, like, I think Privalov to a certain extent, but there's not a lot of guys in this class that are getting me super excited. Like as good as Jonah Noenschwander is, he doesn't excite me.

He's a good player. It's an average group, I think. It's an average group, which I'm not going to say it's a bad group. I'm just saying, especially at this point. There's a lot of development, different things. But I'm just saying, like,

the hard part of coming out of the Holinka is watching Maddoch Schultz and Liam Pugh and Joey Cullen and being like, and I think there's a significant gap between the, you know, the, the, and the American at this point. However, seeing those 2018 guys or 2028 guys go,

I'm like, oh, they get you excited. They get me excited. I'm like, hey, I enjoy watching that player play the sport of ice hockey. And I will say the one thing about, Schultz is incredible. like she'll incredible yeah yeah i understand the pew numbers but like i i think based on every time i've watched

them there's something about shultz that just he he really leaps off at you there and i will say we've talked a lot about just the centers in this sage group already the complete lack of high end d at this stage and maybe maybe again some of those guys will emerge i thought broccripps and malik leek i was i thought malik was just okay early on i thought he finished strong brachs and malick were excellent and they're the next 2D on my list. Is there, like, who is the fourth or fifth or sixth high-end D in this class? Like, after DuPont and Chris

and Littal and Diego there? I've had a tough time with Diego and the number of mistakes he makes on the puck. I just find he coughs it up a lot. I wonder about the IQ there. We'll see what Diego does this year at the program. He's going to play a big role on that team, but I've watched for you, Tierra's play some bad games. Yeah. Other question I had for you,

was Tim Casda. I thought, like, you have been the teens. I thought he'd be the kind of guy you would love. Like, his skill level's pretty elite. Walk me through that one, if you don't mind. I kind of viewed that, that fourth tier, Casda, Schaefer, Gordon, Carol, who else is in that group, Noah Davidson.

I like all of those players, but again, not, those guys have not excited me. I thought Casda was absolutely outstanding at U-A-teens. I'm not sure whether I saw that, both previously last year when I watched him in Chicago or when I did more tape for this in Chicago, like very, very good player, 10 to 15, 10 to 16, 10 to 17 conversation for me.

But I have not seen in Kazda, at this stage, a top 10 guy. Well, you've got like Bossie Meyer ahead of him, also a late birth, same age group. Was like Kazza not 10 times better than him at the U-18s? I don't think Kazda. I thought Meyer was one of Sweden's before he got banged up there. I thought Meyer was one of Sweden's best players. He was their captain.

He was at top six center for them. He was skilled. He's a good player. I'm just like looking at the pro projection there. Guys, one guy is six one. And I just feel like his skill level is pretty elite. I just haven't seen elite skill level in Kasta at this stage. Okay.

Yeah. All right. I thought he's getting a big stage next year. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This will be good. Yeah. I mean, we'll have to be, Wysick was excellent.

Weissick and KASDA will be appointment viewing for people in Guelph this year. Yeah, yeah. They could both be a lot of repicks. Yeah, they've got a good club. Lay in the groundwork for the debates that we're going to have all year. That's going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Remember, you can catch more of Chris over on, over at Flow hockey and on his podcast called up.

Of course, more of Scott and Corey on Theathletic.com. We'll talk to you soon.