The Athletic Hockey Show - USA and Canada roster projections for the Milan Olympics

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

As the hockey world gets set for the Four Nations Face-Off, taking place in Boston and Montreal next week, Hailey and Sean, along with Max Bultman, take an early, closer look at the rosters for the United States and Canada at the Milan Olympics, which begin one year from now. Plus they ask, do Sweden and Finland have a chance for an upset at the Four Nations, and the IIHF deciding to continue to ban Russia and Belarus from International hockey for the 2025-26 seasons and what it means for their involvement in the 2026 Winter Olympics.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Max BultmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the athletic hockey show. It's Haley, Sean, and Max here with you this week. And the Milan 2020-26 Olympics are just one year away. So today on the show, we're going to make some early selections for our Olympic rosters, maybe look at some players who might be on the bubble at the upcoming Four Nations face-off, which happens next week, first game on February 12.

But first, let's bring in the guys. It's Max is back. This is great news. Yeah, I thought this was a Super Bowl preview show, though. I was given wrong notes, I think. It's a lion Super Bowl preview show. You're getting very wrong notes. Yeah, we booked this weeks ago.

That hurts, actually. Now, the actual reason that I came on is I texted Sean like two weeks ago to tell him the School of Rock was on TV and he never replied. So I came on to find out why. Well, then I texted you. He was probably too busy watching School of Rock. answer your text. I think that was,

that came, I was like on a call or something. There was like an actual reason for it because then I opened up, I texted you a couple days ago and saw that and felt bad, but also didn't. That's such a like nasty thing to leave on red. Like that is such a sweet text for Max and then you just didn't. Like that is so rude.

But I thoroughly enjoyed it. I just, I don't know if Allison had seen the whole thing like start to finish. So it was great. School of Rock. at any given time is on perfect cable or Pluto TV or buttstream.

Or whatever. It's on it's on somewhere. Did you know that two of the bandmates got married like a few months ago? No, which two. Wait, let me try to guess. I don't know. He wasn't in the band. It was the bouncer. It was a chubby kid who was the bouncer and one of the background singers got married. That's awesome.

You can't call him that. He's a chubby kid. It's okay. We love, we love chubby kid. It was the little blonde girl who was like, all about the rules. Yeah. He wasn't in the band? He was the security. Producer Jeff says Husky's better than Jeff.

I think I'd way rather be called chubby than Husky. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really weird. It's the little cute guy with the sweater vest and the girl with the pigtail braids. They're buried. Congratulations. He did security.

That was what his job had to be. He had the cute little sweater vest. I thought he played bass. That's my bad. All right. There was a girl who played based. Miranda Cosgrove, yes. Anyways, I love School of Rock also.

So the Four Nations face off, starting next week. I don't know how you guys feel about the tournament. I know we've talked about it a little bit on the show. I know I'm going to watch it, but I'm kind of still discreet. Wow. You're going to watch it. Are you going to let me finish what I'm saying? That's so rude.

Max is like I shouldn't have come back. No, Jeff just sent a photo of their wedding. I'm just glad to. Anyway, the four nations. Four nations. I am like as I was saying, I am going to watch the tournament, but I'm still just treating it as a prelude

to the tournament that I actually care about, which is the Milano Cortina 2026 Olympics, which is only a year away now. Little over a year for the men's tournament, women's hockey starts on February 5th and men start February 11th. That's the first game of the prelims. But I think that makes this a nice time to do a little bit of a roster check-in, go over some players who might find themselves on the bubble or play their way out of an

Olympic roster spot for someone else who could play their way in. And a lot of these players are probably the ones that we had debated being like, why did they make this roster over so-and-so player? Let's start with Team USA because I'm out numbered here. There's two Americans on the call. That's right. I won't make you start about Canada. Thank you. Forwards on the bubble. This is again more of maybe the conversation that people had of like how did Chris

Kreider make it over Tage Thompson. But I think the forwards we look at is, you know, the ones that we're going to watch and see how they do would be like Chris Kreider, Brock Nelson, Vincent Trocheck. Maybe Matt Boldie, Matt Boldie to a lesser extent than the I think he's pretty safe because he's still, he's still rising, he's got the two-way game. I think he's pretty safe. Yeah. Let's take Matt Boldie out of there. Okay, so Crider Nelson Trocheck, does that seem fair as players that might be on the bubble?

Are they the ones that you're tracking on the American Forward Group? How many points per 60 at five-on-five this season do you think Chris Kreider has? 0.48. I don't even... Not quite that bad. He's a 0.83, which is tied for 537th in the league. It's the same level of production that you're getting from Gustav Forsling and Connor Clifton. It's a tick behind Vladislav Gavrakov.

This guy is producing five on five points like he's a defensive defenseman. He's got three assists on the whole year. It's wild. And part of that is because of it. what we've seen from Mika Zabanajad, right? Like that's certainly a problem. Those guys are stapled together. They always have been.

You can't talk about one without talking about the other. And Sabanajad has been brutal too. But when we're talking about it in this context, when you have a player who's on a scoring line and struggles to produce that significantly, it even strength. And he's a guy who, you know, this makes me feel old.

I've said this before. But Chris Kreider's 33. like his best days as a hockey player, almost certainly behind him, you gotta wonder, what would even need to happen for him to still be on this roster in a year from now?

Like, does he, does he play out with the top power play and pop and really look like a weapon there, like in front of the net? I don't know. It seems like he's out, especially when you look at some of the options that they have elsewhere. And I think the players

that we've highlighted as ones that could maybe steal those spots. So if we kind of look at, and essentially, we don't want to come on here and do like full roster projections with locks on the bubble da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Because that would take full pods for each roster, and we can maybe do that once we're closer to the Olympic

tournament. But in terms of like the players who could play their way in or the forwards who are pushing for spots, you know, Tage Thompson is 26 goals on the season. He's someone that people talked about as not being on this roster initially. That's certainly someone who's going to push for an Olympic roster spot.

You have Jason Robertson. Even Clayton Keller, you could throw Cole Cawfield into the mix. He also has 26 goals on the season. The problem with Cawfield more than Tage Thompson is he probably has to be a top six player on Team USA, and that is not really a hole that they have. Tage is a little bit more versatile than a Cole Cawfield. Even though I'd go to bat for Cole Cawfield, like, every day. He's my favorite.

So there's four, at least four. four solid offensive picks that we could put here over a Chris Kreider. I think if you wanted to like with Kreider and Nelson both, like those are, they're there for a reason, right? That's a pretty specific role. I don't know if these guys are necessarily ready for that,

but you could look at like a Matthew Nyes. Could you look at like a Maddie Baneers? I know he had a down year and hasn't totally rebounded, but he's kind of more in that mold. Maybe, you know. He's a USA hockey guy, I guess. Yeah. Logan Cooley,

I guess could be another depending on where he's at a year for, now he's kind of come on. And they're kind of fit a little more in the classic, you know, bottom six role, maybe less so coolly, but he's not too different from Trocheck. I just, I want,

I want either Thompson or Cauffield there. And Coffield, much as we love him, Haley, you said as much like, he's my favorite little. It's tough. It's tough to imagine it working out for him in and out.

Because you, you just have to, you have to commit to playing him on a top six. And yes, the dude is seventh in goals per 60 at five on five. you know, he's, and that's among everybody. So among regular players, he's behind Kent Johnson and Alex Ovechkin and Adam Goddette, who's having an insane season for Ottawa.

He always randomly pops on stats like that. Yeah. And then number one in that category, guess who is Tage Thompson. So, man, you look at, you look at Tage with the positional versatility, right? He can play center. He can play right wing. he's when he's on the the shot on the power play is a rare thing league-wide you know he's he's the guy who if you're looking to de-grit the bottom of the roster i think you have to find a way to

to work him in just because his talents are so are so unique and for his bad for his bad of the season is the buffalo sabres are having tage thompson is still one of the most effective, efficient, productive goal scores in the league. And, you know, again, I get why he was left off. I understand it. But it's also very easy to imagine there being, you know, a power play here, there, or an offensive stretch, you know, in one of these games where that comes back and bites the United States.

And I think he more than anybody is the player you bring along to. avoid that happening. Yeah, he should be on this roster over Crider, right? Absolutely. Would he be a tall player on the whole roster? I'm just trying to think is like one of these D guys. Or one of the goalies. 6-5 or 6-6 or something.

I think you would be. Not that it really matters, not to be like big hockey. Hellebuck's like 6-5 or 6-6 also. Yeah, that was the only one. What about Alex? I know you just said de-gritting the roster. I don't know that I want to de-grit the roster totally. I don't want to fully de-grit-thor.

I'm not saying that. I think part of what makes this team the favorite coming into the tournament, if we're being honest, is that they have, it's not just grit for grit's sake. It's that they have a well-rounded players up and down the lineup. I'm saying if you want to make one swap, if there's one move to make, it's finding a way to get Tage Thompson on the roster. And I think if that's the premise, then Crider is probably the first to go. I don't even mind, I don't mind Vince Trocheck. I don't mind I don't mind Brock Nelson. Like those guys, they serve a person. They're just, the ones we're kind of watching like I'm curious to see like I'm we're not coming here and saying like all four of these guys need to be out here but those are just like outside because everyone else is basically like I don't think you can make a case for Dylan Larkin to not be on the Olympic team like you are you're maybe galaxy braining it so those are just the guys who might be like on the bubble where we look at when you normally do a roster tier it's like the locks the near locks the inside track and the bubble guys so like Brock.

Nelson of Vincent Trochec. They are the inside track guys because they're on this Four Nations roster. But then we have bubble players like Clayton Keller, Tage Thompson, Cole Cofield that could try to push those guys up spots. Do you play Tage Thompson and saying, why are you trying to cut all these guys? Do you make Tage Thompson your 3C, drop Larkin down to the 4C, and then have Trochek as your spare?

And then Crider gets pushed out? I don't mind that. So, I think that works. Yeah, I think Thompson's got this skill and the flexibility and the relevance on the power play to just make this seem like you got it. You got to find some way to find it. And I think that's kind of where it starts is you find spots on particularly on the third line where you can, you know, justify playing him. Do you put Matt Boldie on the third line with Tage Thompson? that would help.

Do you put him on the fourth line? Or do you put him on the fourth line with Dylan Larkin? Boldie's a really good defensive winger, so I think that could help cover up some of, some of the Tages. Yeah. Because with Tage at Center sometimes, you have like a third line checking pair,

a checking line that's like you can play decent on defense, but like have the offensive ability once you transition, or do you have Boldie like on a true defensive shutdown line? Well, I think sometimes with Thompson, sometimes with Thompson, it turns into, pick your poison. Like, do you want him to be a transcendent offensive player or do you want him to do you want him to be a half decent two-way guy? He hasn't been able to put together the entire entire puzzle over the last couple years. Maybe if you surround him with, you know, higher caliber

wingers, put Jake Gensel on his left, Matt Boldie on his right. You have guys who are, who are, you know, defensively conscious and then just let him cook. Or do you bring Titch Thompson as as the spare. Is he, is he the break in case of emergency player at the, at the Olympics where it's like, if stuff is, if stuff is really stuck in the mud, you, you bench, you bench Vince Trocheck and find a way, find a way in for Thompson. He's the exact kind of guy that I like having, if nothing else, as a spare, because he's got functionality at two positions. Yeah. And he can replace skill guys if they're not, if they're not cooking in the right way. Yeah. I don't think you have to convince us that Tage Thompson should be on the roster.

Is Clayton Keller? I'm not talking to you guys. I'm talking to, I'm talking to, I'm talking to the listeners, baby. Is Clayton Keller a sneaky pick? Is he someone who could pop?

It's just, yes, but it's a similar dynamic to the upper lineup players again, and even more so than with Tage, because Tage has the size. I think the issue that guys like that run into is you then have to,

kind of like Sean was just doing with Tage, you have to build. your lineup around them and especially down the lineup that's not as much what you want to have to be doing i think you want a little more like okay we you know chess pieces these guys can all go with any of these guys that's why like a brock nelson i thought should be on this roster and and obviously is because you can use however you want and that's where like i look at guys like baneers tuck uh in in future years and go yeah that's that's a similar kind of deal you put that person with any you can put tuck and tage frankly as buffalo does and that he helps page just like he does in buffalo so that's where like

guys like Caulfield and Keller, like they're great players, but they kind of need a certain. Not an all-star team. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's easy on paper to be like, oh, well,

I like Cole Cofield's game more than I like Brock Nelson's game in terms of individual skill, but that's what they will always say. It's not an all-star team. You're building a roster and you've got to figure out the identity of certain lines. Let's look on defense. I don't know if there's anyone who's on the bubble on D. I think the U.S. Blue Line is, you know, going to be one of the huge strengths of this roster other than like the skill they have in their forward group and for goalies.

There's a lot to like about the American team. That's unfortunate for me. The only kind of question is just like, do they end up trying to bring a John Carlson or does Jake Sanderson make a push to take a spot? But the question would be like, whose spot is he taking? It moves out. Is it Brock Faber? Is it like, I don't think. So that's the problem.

I don't know who could be on the out with a bad four nations. Isn't there one extra, it's been so long since we had reason to care about the Olympics, but they have 25s, right? So you get an extra four and an extra D. Yeah. So that helps Sanderson right there. Yeah. Get on at least and then, you know, see if they dress and all that.

Yeah. So Jake Sanderson would have an inside track for you guys over at John Carlson, you think? Yeah. I think, man, but yes, but also, Carlson's been great and he looks and he looks healthy and well after kind of having having some having some issues there over the last little bit. I wouldn't mind having John Carlson around in case. As you're 80th in case the power play looks lost or something or he you need someone. Quinn Hughes or Adam Fox or Charlie McAvoy or Noah Hanifin can't quarterback.

That's what's tough. That's what's tough. Like like like realistically why when are you going to need another guy who's his his P.1 capable they have staffs. Yeah. And if you believe it. Is interesting. Or do you believe that if like Jake Sanderson's going to be someone who's a lock for 2030, do you bring him as the 8D so he can be ready for next time? I think that makes sense. Like he's 12 years old, but. I think that makes sense.

I think it's a similar situation with Faber too, because Faber's incredible, obviously, but you don't put Brock Faber on the four nations team and then leave him off the Olympic team, right? Like part of the reason he's on the formation team is because you know he's going to be on the Olympic teams. I would almost have Hanifin on the bubble over. Faber. I agree. I agree with that. Max, is that crazy? If we are

picking someone to be on the bubble we have one extra slot, I feel like the end would be. And Faber shoots right. And, you know, he's young. Obviously, is Garen the Olympic GM also? Did they know if that's 100% certain yet, but I would assume that

I'd assume he's going to have a seat at the table. Yes, in one way or another. Yeah. And at that, obviously, helps Faber and all the Yeah, no, they, sorry, they announced him as the 2026 Olympic team. Oh, great. Okay. Well, yeah. You can write a bright Brock favor and pen. But you're playing

tickets. Yeah. Enjoy, enjoy Italy, Brock. Yeah. Okay, so I think we agree that we could put Jake Sanderson as the 8D and if we're going with the like 14 forward, then I think we put Tage Thompson there and then if there's someone else who could maybe like steal a spot from a Chris

Crider than it would be a Robertson Keller or Coffield as a extra. I'm still banging the table for my defense guys, my PKers, but. You are taking, oh, you want Alex Tuck? Tucker, Benares. Yeah, I think that's where I would go. You're so boring. Why is Mac? It's for a role.

I don't want Keller on the fourth line. I don't need, I don't need Keller on the fourth line either. honestly. Okay, Sean, who are you? So you want Maddie Baneers for the Olympic team? Not what I said. Sean's just a big Michigan fan, so he's obviously going to say Maddie Bineers because he's a homer.

But me, I say it out of pure reasons. Uh-huh. Yeah. Maybe Olympics is when he starts scoring a lot more. Maddie Bineers. We'll see. You don't need him to score. He's on the Pakey!

The Cracken made him to score. That's a whole lot of experience. That's true. That's a different thing. Yeah. All right. We'll see. We'll see about. I don't know how many penalty killing forwards I need. I think they have

quite a few. Yeah. Goleys. Not if we get rid of them all. We're not cutting all of them. Come on. Everyone loves Brock Nelson. We're cutting Chris Kreider. Brock Nelson and Vincent Trocheck and P.K. All right. That's fair. You only need two.

No, you need like six. You need one good FK unit. You need one good FK unit. Who cares? This is how you end up with Paige Thompson, killing penalties or something. Who cares? Blair Turnbull plays every minute short-handed, I swear. Take a page from the Canadian women's book. It works great.

Be more like Blair Turnbull if you want to win gold. I strive to. Goleys, I think the only big question mark would be like, can Thatcher Dempco get healthy and take a spot back? Can you boot Jeremy Swayman or the goalies just locked in? Oh, yeah, he can. They're similar age. You know, there's a,

it's not like you're bringing a, a 22-year-old on scholarship because you know that he's going to be the guy in four years, right? Those guys are all about the same age, capable of playing now. I can certainly imagine Demko, because he's played internationally before as well. I wouldn't be, wouldn't surprise me the least if Demko. Now he's easy, he's a play better. He hasn't been particularly good for the Canucks?

That's what I mean. Can he come back and take a spot? I think so. It's probably also playing for the third string, right? Like Hala Bucks your starter unless something crazy happens. And Ottinger, I think, is just a very solid number two option. So you're probably battling it off for number three. I agree with that.

And number three, like maybe Dustin Wolf by then? You buying Dustin Wolf as a challenger? I think he just got a lot of, I think he just got a lot of ground to make up. Yeah. Yeah. Not to disrespect I'm a Justin Wolf fan. No.

The flames are, the flames are in this because of him, period. Like, he is the reason we're still talking about them. He's been fantastic. I just think he probably needs to have another season or two like that to really end up on the radar long term for the international team. Yeah. And, like, people are always going to bring up his size,

despite the fact that it hasn't yet been an issue in his career. But there's going to be, what's so funny he's been very good everyone just wants to talk like oh well he's small we'll see if he can do it and like he's kind of done it i mean he's six foot at a certain point everyone's just gonna have to accept that dust and wolf is a really is a is a high end nchl goaltender yeah he's the uc sorrows kind of model oh yeah small but very athletic technically sound but is he going to beat out swayman or demco I don't think so, but maybe in 2030.

Let's take a break. That's our American kind of roster chat. I feel like we didn't actually get anywhere because Max refuses to go. We took Tage. We had a complete consensus on Tage and Sanderson. Yeah, well, we could have done that in like two minutes instead of 20. I don't know what happened here. All right.

We started talking about the school. Yeah, that's true. You derailed that immediately. Usually you're the one that gets us back on track. Let's take a break. We come back. We'll take a look at Canada's roster, particularly. Max isn't going to like this part.

Do we need all these penalty killing forwards? We'll be right back to the entire boat out of penalty killing forward. Let's go. Take more of them. All right. We'll be right back. All right. We are back on the athletic hockey show.

And I think for Canada, it makes sense to start with the goalies. Because I have a question for you guys. if Four Nations rosters were selected today, Thursday, February 6th, very tight turnaround for the tournament to start, would McKenzie Blackwood and Logan Thompson be on your rosters? Yes, got to be. And to remind everyone, it's Aidan Hill, Sam Monson Bow, and Jordan Bennington as the three for Canada. I think this sounds crazy. We talked about this on the Wednesday show in the moment whenever, gosh, it was when. the sharks were trading McKenzie Blackwood.

It was right before the sharks traded McKinsey Blackwood to Colorado. And this was like a strain of our discussion back then. I think he would have been on my roster when it came out, honestly. Just given the way that sounds wild, but given the issues that Canada has there that have well, well trod and heavily discussed, I think Blackwood would have been in my first group, honestly. and he's done absolutely nothing since then to diswainment of that. He's been, he's been great. And a lot, in a lot of regards, he's kept the, he's, he's, uh, helped the abs tread water

because they've been very average and especially going back a couple weeks ago. And he's kept them, you know, racking up pace, uh, points basically at the pace that they should. So yes, he Granger has loved Blackwood since like before the season started. He came on, uh, with us on with, with, with Laz. Who is that? Jesse Granger The Joley expert

Now he came out to start of the year And we asked him like Who are going to be the breakout goalies? And he said Dostal and Blackwood And he nailed both I think And Blackwood It only looks smarter now after he got traded Because you know

Now he's got the numbers to back it up So yeah I think you definitely have to have At least one of those guys over Montembow And I can understand Binnington because of the experience But I think you're probably fine To take Thompson over Binnington after the way the two years of God this year. Blackwood with the, with the abs,

926 a percentage, 16 goals saved above expected. That's eighth in the league in goals saved above expected, even though he's played with, that's only considering his games with Colorado, right? So he's been remarkable. Like,

he's there no doubt for me. So since December 9th, which is when the Blackwood to the abs trade happened, the top three goalies in the NHL have been Connor Hallibuff. of course, Team USA starter, Logan Thompson, and McKenzie Blackwood. Those are the top three goalies in terms of wins and say percentage, 16, 13, and 12 for Hellebuck Thompson, Blackwood, and 925, 932, 926. So, like, when you do the full stats, they, like, average out the two or whatever.

I'm fine with Aiden Hill sticking around, I think. So you'd keep Aiden Hill over. I think so. Bennington? Yes. I would go Thompson Blackwood Hill if I were building a Canadian roster for a best on best tournament today. Yeah. In that order, like you're starting Thompson?

I will say in terms of starters, Logan Thompson does have the best state percentage since December 9th, when you just told your best state percentage. I think unless you have Connor Hellebuck or Enric Glunquist or Igor Shosturkin or some, you know, you know, high-end, proven year-over-year stud. I think for stuff like this, your best bet is to ride the hot hand. For me, that's some combination of Thompson and Blackwood. Now, who knows, man, we might have a year from now when we're having a similar discussion,

there might be a whole another group. And that's Canada's problem, right? Is that you're trying to... Who's Canada starter going to be this year anyways? I, Bennington, I believe. I think that's, I think that's still, from what I understand, I think that's still the plan. But like, he hasn't been good either. So you're trying to, you're trying to project performance among a group of inconsistent goalies, not just, not just in the moment, but one year out.

Like, you could, we could shake up the etch-a-sketch of right now and have a completely different, uh, of circumstances a year from now. That's a tough thing. It's easy to say that... It's easy to say that Logan Thompson and McKenzie Blackwood are playing great right now, but what if it's February of 2026 in Logan Thompson and McKenzie Blackwood are both looking like, you know, timeshare guys? Then the problem just restarts itself.

Yeah, but like you're not picking the Olympic. You're not actually picking the Olympic roster right now. So we're going to have like a lot more time for them to figure. out who that guy is. My problem for the tournament right now is, like, we knew this going in. Like, everyone knew that the Canadian goalies were not good. But Jordan Biddington is an 899 save percentage. Aidan Hill has a 900 save percentage. And Sam Montenboe is an 898 safe percentage. So it's like, who really is the number one? Like, it probably is Bennington based on seniority, I guess. But, like, I'm not feeling good.

And when this discussion was happening back in December, or whenever the rosters were related out the first time. Because look what he did last year. But also, well was one of the jokes that someone needs to get Joey to court a passport like ASAP because he has dual citizenship, I think. And at the time was playing like the best Canadian goaltender on Earth. And to some extent,

like he's the guy who's kept it up. He's the guy who's been good. I don't know. I don't think a kid from Boston, Massachusetts is going to get a Canadian passport. Like, I don't. Do what you got to do. Help them jump in line or whatever because my man's got a 915% percentage right now. And that's miles better than all their other options for this tournament at least.

Well, I'll tell you this, Haley, a goaltending room like that sure does make me really glad that they've got a bunch of good defensive forwards to help out. You know what that sounds like? A nice transit. It sounds like a bronze medal winning goal tender room to me, baby. Ew. Oh, God. The Canadian hockey summit is going to be foul this year. And if you like Canadian goalie discussion,

head to theathletic.com for more on it over the next week. There's a lot of content planned around that. Yeah. All right. So on that note, the forward question. Do we need all of Travis Kineckney? Seth Jarvis, Anthony Sorrelli,

Sam Bennett. I love all those players. Yeah. I agree degrees. So it's tough. It's, I feel dirty having the discussion because Travis Kineckney's got a spot on

whatever team I'm trying to build. Same goes for all those guys. This is the toughest, this is the toughest element, I think, of the entire discussion for me is what to do with them. Yeah. And the tough part of it is that you've got like,

somebody like Mark Schifley, who is second in the NHL, third in the NHL in goals right now, 31, he's 11th in points with 61. He's not on this roster. There's a, what will Mark Schifley be next year? He's a bit of a volatile player, so you've got time to figure that out with Schifley, but he's on the outside looking in. You've got Matt Barzell who could add some skill to the top of the lineup. There's like a Robert Thomas if we want to throw it in. Like there's a lot of depth has never been an issue for Canada. So there's, there's a lot of depth has never been an issue for Canada. So there's, There's a question of like how many, is there one of these guys that ends up getting pushed out for, I mean, and we could say Mark Schifley's the, because we have one extra slot, we could say, okay,

Mark Schifley's in, but I think the question, the big question of Canada's forward group was, did Canada overdo it on like, it's not an all-star team? We need these kind of guys. Max, what do you think? Okay,

so I'm maybe a little more simple. pathetic to that argument in this case. But I like all these players. Yeah, I think they're a little more stocked in it than the U.S. But, you know, Sam Bennett, right, is probably the name that most people are going to say that's the ill fit piece here. But I think it's a direct response to the USA having two Kachucks and Canada having zero. And I think that's probably the logic. You've got to have one guy that you feel comfortable putting on at least one of the Kachks.

And I think that's Sam Bennett. So I can understand that one, even if it's the, you know, if you just go player for player, that's probably the most, you know, like Robert Thomas. Is Sam Bennett playing the Tom Wilson role? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Robert Thomas, I think, would be the next guy I would take. But I don't know, you know, he's on the smaller side.

Or Mark Schifley, or do we agree that Schifley should be the 15? I think I would take Thomas, but I don't feel that strongly about it. Everyone wants, Anthony, it seems like too many people are. trying to get Anthony Sorrelli off this team and I don't know. No, we're keeping Sirelli. Why? I don't know. I feel like he's... They don't watch the lightning.

I feel like when people are like, hey, how do we get Matt Barzell or whoever in this group? Like, where do we start? And I think too many people start the discussion with Sirelli. And from, he's got 40 points. He's been a legit

Selky candidate before. He is again. He's like top. He's one. top 20 an average game score in the league going by Dom's going by Dom stats he's a plus 12 net he's got a plus 12 net rating so far this season which is sick this is a guy who's I'm sorry what's his defense rating like a plus five he's he's a he's a totally well-rounded yeah yeah uh productive

impactful player on both kinds of third line he's the kind of third liner that ends up being like the MVP of a Stanley Cup team or whatever. It's like the Blake Coleman. Yeah, or yeah. I mean, he's and he's playing second line minutes for the, for the Lightning right now and killing it. He's, they have five great players basically

in that group. I'm not trying to cut it really. So he's a guy who you're like you throw him, play him as play him as your 4C, write it in pen, you can throw him to the wolves, he's done it before. He did it on the Lightning's Cup teams where they were just like, here, go, deal with it. And he and he crushed it. And now he's

producing at a level offensive that we haven't, you know, maybe we weren't seeing from him a couple, a couple years ago. So, man, I get it. I get the impulse to try to add some higher end, you know, air quotes skill to this. But, man, Sorrelli's on my team this year and next year and probably has an inside track for 2030 as well. No, I totally agree. You know, he's not going to be intimidated at all going up against Austin Matthews or Jack Eichel. And this is the kind of player that I'm talking about with both of these.

rosters that like you need this he's a perfect fit on any team and you know i'm not even considering him as a cut no and that's where it is tough because like when you look at it on paper like you just have the like oh well you've got all these like two-way guys you actually need them like Travis connectney's top 20 in scoring he's got 58 points he's a point for game player so this is not someone who's just going to be like oh yeah he's like not a ton of offense but adds like pk value like that's the one thing like Canada does have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to these guys and they're not just adding value to the defensive side of the puck. I guess the question is, and this is not an endorsement, I don't necessarily believe this,

but like maybe this is the interesting debate. When we're trying to find a spot for Mark Shifley, let's just ignore the 15th roster spot. If we're cutting someone for Mark Shifley, do you entertain Mark Shifley instead of Seth Jarvis? I don't. I think Jarvis is a great skater, great motor. He's smaller, but that's about the only. He can play center. He can play right wing.

You could see him producing, I mean, he's not a top line international player, Seth Jarvis, but also like he's going to have 30 goals for the second straight season. You can play him at, I would say you could play him as it on a lot of other teams and a lot of other international teams. He'd be a second line right wing or a third or fourth line center. And you can play him, let's say five, five or six different spots in your lineup. Like he's, he's there for me. me. Yeah. I only ask because I think he is the lowest offensively of this group of players in terms of points, but like other than Sam Bennett, but I don't. So Travis Keneckney was

leading the Metro Division in points like last week. Like he's not on the block for me. I know. Like you're you're like, that's what I'm saying. It's tough because you're like, oh boy, we'll be nice to have Shifley's tied for the tied for second in goals or thereabouts, right? He's behind Bryce Cidal with a bunch of other players. Like, I don't, I don't know, I don't know how we get him in there. We're kind of concluding that they just got it right. I think is where we're. Yeah, is that like the workaround is like, oh.

Turns out they got it right. Yeah. Well, unless you take Bennett off, but then like you, then you lose the like nasty edge that Bennett brings. And I think what I see him is like, how badly does someone need to get rocked for Tom Wilson to end up on this roster? Oh my God. Hospital.

that. Yeah, I shouldn't say that. Wilson's been, Wilson's been great. Like, he's, he's, he's been really, really good this season. He's the guy everyone wants to talk about. Like, I, in a, in a four-game tournament, here's what I'll say about Sam Bennett. I like Sam Bennett in a seven-game series against the same team, wearing dudes down, beating them up shift after shift. I'm not sure he has quite the same effect when you're talking about two games between the United States and Canada. seven games between the Florida Panthers and in the Toronto Maple Leafs or whatever,

like, I'll take Sam Bennett and that 100 times out of 100. I think his benefit is lost a little bit in a, in a, in a kind of a shorter, shorter tournament. So that's where I would start. I guess the like other side of that is playoff Sam Bennett was a thing in Calgary.

And they never really played like that many playoff games. I know there are seven game series, but they get knocked out in four games and he had two goals. We're not blaming him for that, aren't we? No, I'm just saying. Playoff Sam Bennett's a thing. He's had impact in a shorter series because he get knocked out early. Stanley Cup champion, Sam Bennett.

I think I'm just fine with where they're at. Canada kind of nailed the roster. Like, I think when you first looked at it, when it first came out, it was like, oh, did they maybe do too much of this? No, I don't think so. And because you get a fifth. 15th forward than if you want, if Mark Shifley is still, you know, only getting outscored by Leon Dreisidal by next January and put Mark Shifley as the 15th forward.

And all the guys who maybe when the roster was named in December, who maybe there's some kind of fall off and it makes it easier to second guess, like you're, what is Travis connecting and a key producing points the way it was? He has. He has. He has. And Anthony Israeli has 20 goals. So it's in Seth Jarvis has 20 goals. Seth Jarvis is Sam Bennett's a Stanley Cup champion. Like what are you going to do? Like these there's not a ton of places to find fault. Yeah.

Okay. The defense is similarly interesting. Maybe it's not similar. The defense is just interesting. I don't know why I said that. I think the two players that people had beef with when the roster came out was largely Colton Pereco and Travis Sandheim. Where do you guys stand on?

on that. Do you think these are guys you're still watching to see if they deserve that roster spot? I think what makes the defense interesting. Sean and I talked about this briefly last week is there's the Drew Dowdy question. If he is healthy and available and as good as he was last year, not to mention that he'd be like a big legacy pick as it would probably be his last chance to be on Team Canada. Do you have to put Drew Dowdy in permanent ink? How do you guys feel about that? Do we like Pareko and Sandheim for the Olympics? Sanheim, the backlash on Sanheim, I think, was a little unfair. I think he's a really steady player in that role.

Yeah. You know, Paraco. I think it was people just like hating on the like flyers players, it's just being like, why are there so many guys from Philly on this roster? They stink, I think was kind of where that came from. Yeah, there may be something to that. I mean, Paraco too, like similar to Bennett, like there's a little bit of just like,

you need a giant guy who's going to be completely unintimitated by, you know, the Kachucks forechecking him, basically. Not to like, I don't know, I'm a well-known Kachuck Stan, I guess. But I don't think that they made every roster decision based on that. But I think he is an example of a guy who holds up well in those circumstances. He'd be a guy over the next year. I'm curious, a guy that size, that age, how is his, what's his trajectory, right? And that's a spot I think you could end up with Drew Dowdy.

And if Drew Dowdy has fully rebounded, which I think remains to be seen soon. I'd also like to see Travis Sandheim play the way he's played. another year or so. Like I like, I like Travis and I've got time for him. I think especially in the run up to the rosters being named, I think that was the first time he looked like a guy who you would, who you would bring. And it's not that large of sample size.

So if we're so if he keeps us together, he plays tons of minutes. He plays against brutal competition like da da da da da da. Like I love it. But he needs to keep, he needs to keep doing that to, to really lock down his spot. long term for sure.

Where does McKenzie Weger fit in for you guys? Is he someone who could steal a spot or is he just an outside looking at type? He would look. I get why people want your daddy on the team. Frankie Crowdo floated Aaron Eckblad as like a potential petrangelo replacement, which the more you think about it, the more it kind of makes sense, especially for where those guys are in their careers currently. So I get it. There's plenty of options. But for me, man, I think McKenzie Weeger is there.

I love McKenzie Weger as the seventh because he can play both sides. He can help on a power play. Drive some offense, plays against tough competition. I don't think he's, you know, whatever. He's not Kail McCar. But if you need someone who you can't. Can it already has Kail McCar on their roster. Exactly. You only need one Kail McCar and they got him. You can play McKenzie Weeger. up and down three pairs in pretty much in pretty much any situation. So he's on my team for sure. Yeah, the versatility is big there. Good.

Yeah. No, Dobson would be another guy. I like Eckblad, too. I don't mind the Eckblad idea at all. But Dobson, I think, would be, you know, he's a guy who can run a power play if you need him to, but you don't. But he's also huge and big shot. I think he translates at all, all situations.

And he's, like, still pretty underrated. I know sometimes we can throw that around, like, a little too much with guys. where it's like, is he underrated or do you just not talk about him yourself? But I feel like he flies under a little bit. Yeah, the Islanders just have a history of these really good two-way defensemen that help them play the style they've played. And I feel like he fits in that kind of role for Canada. If you need him to do that, it's a different style for Canada than it is for the Islanders,

but he has the offensive tools to do it all. So he's a guy I would be thinking about. Hockey people really love Noah Dobson. you get coached a lot i've talked to i've talked to a handful of coaches who really like no adopts and scouts scouts who love them and watch them regularly i it's been a little bit of a tough go for him this season in in in new york so there's some some work to do maybe to get him on long island on long island we don't need to get into geographical questions there i guess they play up they play on long island still technically um but yeah like i i i i get it i like no adopts and a lot too i think

the question here for me just turns into how do we try to find a way to get Evan Bouchard on this on this roster um specifically do you find a way to get him on there even if it is a spare in case Kail McCar wakes up you know with back spasms for the you know what I mean like that in the universe what is wrong with you yeah I think I think Evan Bouchard is the closest approximation to Keel McCar that we're going to be able to bring up in this discussion. So I wouldn't mind having them there.

I think on an Olympic roster, he's a guy you bring along and maybe maybe don't play against everybody. But you play him if you know you're going to need someone to play with the top power play unit and whatever else. Because the stuff he doesn't

transition, I think you can never have too much of that. And perfect familiarity with McDavid, right? So you translate a little bit of that chemistry over. Yeah. Okay. So I'll put you guys on the spot on February 6th, if we're picking our roster for next year's Olympics. We have three roster spots for Sandheim, Pereko, Dowdy, Bouchard, Dobson, Weeger.

Who are you taking? I would take San Diego. I would take Sanheim, Dobson, and Bouchard. I'll go, I'll go Sanheim, Weiger, Bouchard. Okay. So we're cutting Pereko, but then not taking Drew Doudy? Dowdy, obviously, will, if he gets back to his form, he will be there. And I want to see it.

At this age, it's a place where I'm not taking it as a given. So I want to see it before I put him up. He's also back to play in like 27 minutes. night already. I know. I broke as I it's crazy. Maybe it's because I'm like Canadian and like I grew up watching Drew Dowdy on like

junior teams or team Canada teams. Yeah, I'm very young. I think I would take Sanheim, Dowdy and Bouchard. So if I'm cutting Paraco, I probably want to take a vet who can I mean and Dowdy's Canada

Bonifides are as good as it gets. Exactly. So I think I think that would be my three. Dowdy Weger, or probably in my lineup, and then I have Bouchard as the spare. But then you're cutting, I don't mind that. It's a tough cut,

but yeah, I think I'm... You cut Sanheim for Weger, basically. Sanheim for Weger and then Paradeo. It's a lot of Riteys, but McKenzie Weger can play on the left. He's comfortable doing that. Yeah. It's both seems. There's still just so much to learn in the next year.

but Canada. Canada's interesting. Let's take a break. We don't have that much time left, but there are two other nations and the four nations and several other nations at the Olympics. We won't have time to get into everyone. There's many countries in the world. And we're going to name them. In the next second, I'm going to try to name Azerbaijan. One time my mom and I tried to name all of the U.S. states and it took us hours. without Google, without Google. We got to like, we got like 47 and we were like, I don't know, man. Like, I don't, are we sure there's more states? Anyways, let's take a break.

The less said about that the better. Yeah, yeah. Let's take a break. We'll talk about Sweden and Finland and other countries next. All right, Max, do you want to name the first five countries with the last? I should have been Googling this during our break. All I got is Albania. Afghanistan.

Yep. I was joking. It's a joke. Stop it. Australia. There you go. Good job. I didn't, is there five countries start with A?

I don't know. We should stop. As I've said. There's got to be one more. Back to the Four Nations. You guys think on that. Let's talk about Sweden very quickly here. I think one of the big questions for the Swedish team is like,

could a young defender make a push for 2026? Like maybe a Simon Edvinson, Max? Yeah, I think Edvinson's possible. He's definitely come on strong this year. Another guy, you know, Hampas Lindholm, I think, could be a guy that could bit a role for them. For either of them, you have to get Eric Carlson off the lineup, I think. And frankly, like, all respect Eric Carlson.

He's one of the best defense in this era. Sean just had the weirdest little vehicle. Sean knew this was coming, I think. I don't understand why on a team with Rasmus Dalit and Victor Hadman, you need Eric Carlson. For this tournament, I get it. There's a legacy component. And it's the first best on best and forever. He would have to be so good at this tournament for me to advocate Sweden, bringing him again to the Olympics over one of these more prototypical do-it-all guys.

I just think the utility for Eric Carlson is pretty isolated at this point to the power play and how you want to use them. Yeah, and they have guys who can. Right. He's been better for Pittsburgh this year than he was last season, but, you know, grading on a pretty steep curve. I can imagine, I don't, I can imagine him not deserving to be there in merit in 2026. I can't imagine. I don't see them cutting. Yeah, I think that would be.

It's probably too hard to see. Swedish DM Maxwell Boltman with the with like, you know, the accent over the A, probably, probably, I get it. An Oomelot? Is that what that's called? Yes. Is it technically a new amount? Okay. Two dots. We're saying a lot of really tough.

Oh, you're talking about the little O? Yes. The O is something different. I don't know what that's called. But I know what it does. Sure. Yeah, I, he's going to make the team. I get what you're saying.

And I get why. And I get why you don't want. but it's like kind of a it's the premise is is a tough one for me to for me to get past I get it I just think I would want a player more like Edmondson or even you know if Edmondson is not quite ready for it I think campus Lintholm would be a good option too and he's been you know maybe not quite as good this year as last year in Boston but I think he just brings you more utility can Edmondson get pushed someone else off the roster we think Does he seem like someone who might deserve right by 2026?

I think he could. Yeah, I mean, he's playing a huge role for the Red Wings. He's played, plays tough minutes. He can do a little bit of everything, can skate the puck up. You know, he can, they're not going to need him on a power play. He doesn't really do it in Detroit either, but he's done earlier in his career. So I think you can use him in any situation. I think he might be my first guy if they need someone by next year, by 2026.

He might be my first replacement if there's an issue on the left side. Or there's the eighth, right? Yeah, that. the position. Yeah. Like if Matias at home, you know, or,

you know, you know, you know, as Brodeen can't, can't go. I think Simon Edvinson is my, is my first call.

I think I agree. He's been great. And also, relevantly, for 2026, you want to start ushering these guys in as great as Victor

Edmund is, not going to be able to play forever. At some point, they're going to have a huge hole on the left side of, of that defense. You know, I think Edvinson, the discussion, at least as relates to Sweden, I think the discussion probably starts with him in terms of next man up for 2030.

Yeah. He probably, and he probably gets that eighth slot. And then, yeah, the Swedish blue lines, solid. Don't have that many nits to pick. But I do think if you're looking at the quote, Eric Carlson probably is one of the ones that's, like, not playing great. but it would just be kind of wild to see him get cut. I don't know if they'd pull the trigger on that. From one D group to another,

I think for 2026, Finland just has to hope that Mero Heskinin's healthy. I don't know what to do with that blue line, guys. And there's not a ton of... We should call Corey Pranman. We should dial an expert. Is there a good finish prospect coming in the next year? I can't think of one from the last few draft classes

that would be a candidate for the Olympic team. I mean, like Consta Hellenius was a, top 15 pick last year, but he's a forward so he can maybe make the team. But that doesn't solve the defensive issues. Villi Heinala? There's not nothing good's happened there, right?

Like we have, Henry Yoki Haru is on the roster now, which, you know, was kind of funny that he wasn't because they bring Yanni Hockenpa who maybe physically can't play over Henry Yarki, over Henry Yoki Haru, who at least is like, and now hawk and paws out and yoki harryu replaced him which is something that people were anticipating back in december when they when they named the line of so all that all that was all that all that came out of that was henry yoki haryu gets humiliated whenever where the rosters get get released yeah that's a tough that's a tough situation man there's not there's a bunch of guys who are kicking around n hl rosters but nobody who's nobody who's worth talking about it's about as a difference maker. Great center depth, good, goal tending,

um, defense bad. Will yousbury? Hey, what was my question is, uh, like would you just very cockney and me find his way in? The fact that he's not,

not like a great time, but he's been better for the, for the hurricanes recently, recently too. He's just such a up and down, you know, there are glimpses at times for him being a legit, you know,

pretty good third line center. but he never keeps it going long enough to turn it into reality, honestly. It's tough times. If there's one thing we all know from watching international hockey for the last ever, is that a finished team with roster questions just can't make any noise. That's just not going to happen, right? It'll never happen. No metal threat there.

Let me tell you. Yeah. Don't even bring it up. One piece of news as well, this was announced yesterday, or no, two days ago, February 4th. Russia and Belarus will continue to be banned from international hockey for the 2025-26 seasons. The IAHF announced that Tuesday citing security concerns in a statement the IHF said it believes it's not yet safe to reintegrate both countries, which have not been able to participate in world hockey events since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

This could have pretty big implications for the Olympics. The IOC will have final say over Russia can participate and under what conditions. Russia won silver at the 2022 Olympics. They've always been pretty high on the IHF world rankings, a lot of talent there with Russia. So we'll see what happens. Emily Kaplan brought this up in her story on ESPN. The IOC has elections for its next president in March 2025.

So next month, I think we can imagine that Russia's inclusion or ban from Olympic competition will be a pretty big issue or question on the docket for. elections and whoever ultimately takes on that role. So that was just a news note on Russia, other teams for Olympic competition, though, Germany, Czech, because we did say there's more countries

than just the four at four nations. Germany, Czech, Switzerland, Slovakia, Latvia, Denmark, I think Norway's just on the outside. They're 13th in the world ranking. Sean, I think you looked that up today. We don't have time to get into all these countries, but these are the ones where, you know, Germany, we're going to get to see

dry sidle. The Czech team is actually pretty fun. If there's like a non big four nation team to be a little excited about, it's probably, it's probably check. The check, I, the check top six is actually pretty interesting these days. Because you have, you have Passenac. You have Martin Hs. You have Pavel Zaka. Tomas Hurtle, Andre Pallat. Like there's, there's, you know, they have, they have guys at the top. The issue with all these teams, and this is whether we're talking about dry sidel and cider in Germany or we're talking about you know posternock and chat or whatever on and on down the list they have there are elite NHL players there's how there's high in talent there just aren't enough of them and when you get down to the bottom of those rosters

and you're trying to build a four a third line for Slovakia and it gets a little it gets a little fuzzy at least as it relates to competing with the with the four teams we've we've already talked about I think Sider's literally the only German defenseman in the NHL this season, which, you know, he's a great defenseman to have. You're doing great with him as your number one D internationally, but he's going to crush minutes. Yeah, you need, you need a number two. Andre Kasha, you are going to the Olympics. Oh, man. Moritz cider, we, that poor guy.

Dominic Kubalik. Yeah. More Insider is going to play internationally and go back than not having any help on a, on a blue line. we've seen that over the last couple years. His international, like, he's played so well at Worlds and at World Juniors and stuff like that in, like, a role where he was playing like 32 minutes, but it's a different ball game when it's, you know, the Olympics best on best. And we'll see. I mean, I'm not counting out a team with dry siddle, Stutzla, cider and Patroca. I don't think I am either.

Do some damage? They can win games for sure. It does make the, like, do I want Brock Nelson on Team USA on the fourth line? conversation sounds so stupid, though, when you're looking at the depth of other countries. It's really... Switzerland, too, by the way. What a boob who would, like, be a hater on them. Yeah.

Lots of good Swiss players. They could, they can build a half decent defense, too. They can, they got a top four there. Yep. You'll see, you'll see, you know, JJ Moser, you know, Stigens, Siegenthall or Lee and Bexel, like, those are, those are NHL players. They're fine. Yeah.

It'll be interesting. Yeah. I miss that. I'm going to. I miss that element. The Olympics. Yeah. And I think that's part of the element that we're missing from Four Nations, right?

It's like, it's fun to watch Czech versus Slovakia, right? We're not getting that, unfortunately. Yeah. I think it'll be fun. I love the Olympics. I'm very excited. We did, if you're listening to this and you feel like you've been waiting for women's projections, I have two of them on the website this week, a full Canada roster projection and a full U.S.

roster projection. it'll be fun. It's really hard to do that a year out because there's so many players who can rise and fall and for the men we haven't watched Four Nations yet for the women we haven't watched women's worlds or rivalry series, which starts today for the February games.

But I feel like this is like a good time to have our base and then we can look back on it and reevaluate over the course of the next 10 months whenever Olympic rosters have to be in. Whenever Max is available to talk to us, we'll be back. The busiest man in show business, Max Bolton. It's crazy. This is the Max Boltonin' podcast.

Hardest working man in show business. He's taking over the Tuesday show, the Wednesday show. It's actually just Frank and Max now, both Sean's up in the fire. It's actually three Maxes. I had to go track some Maxes down. Me and Sean are. It's a max max and Frank. Yeah.

Me and Conner's going to talk on the phone for 45 minutes of it every Wednesday. Yeah. You guys want to chat with me. You'll miss each other. other too much. All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening to this kind of Four Nations Olympic edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. The Prospect Series is back on Friday. That's Max Bolton, Corey Prom, and Scott Wheeler on the Athletic Hockey Show on Friday. And Sean and I will be with you during Four Nations Week in full swing. That tournament starts February 12th.

Thanks, everyone.