The Athletic Hockey Show - USA-Canada at 4 Nations lived up to the hype

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

The 4 Nations Face-Off took center stage Saturday night as Team USA downed Canada 3-1 in what could be the only matchup between the two rivals… and it was awesome. Max and Laz break down everything from the electric encounter and discuss the Tkachuk brothers understanding the magnitude of the moment, Cale Makar’s potential return to the Canadian lineup in a must-win game against Sweden Monday night, if Pens fans should be irked that Sidney Crosby is playing hurt, which players have raised their profiles the most at the tournament so far, and much more. Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. Las, we're two seconds into the episode, which means I need to ask you, do you want to fight? I do. I was at, I took my daughter, my nine-year-old, to the ring today because her friend wanted to go skating. So they had an open skate. And I kid you not, my nine-year-old, who could not care less about sports other than the mascots in any way. We get on the ice.

She took off her bright yellow gloves, slammed him on the ice. And daddy, let's fight. Let's go. Grow in the game, baby. That was incredible. So I was on a flight as that game was dropped. The puck was dropping on that game, right? So it was toward the end of a flight, and I had been waiting the whole flight for it to start.

I was on, fortunately, one of the ones that had TVs and the seatbacks. So I threw it on. I had the headphones going. And I had kind of been chit-chat into the guy next to me who was, he said he had liked hockey back when the Red Vings were good in like the early 2000s. It hadn't really watched it. So I'm kind of trying to sell them on the game, right? I'm like, this is going to be awesome. It's the first time they've played in nine years.

like, you should check this out. And he's like, yeah, he's humoring me or whatever. He goes back and he's doing whatever he does. So the first fight happens and I'm just, you know, grin and cheek, you know, ear to ear. And then the next one starts. And I'm just like tap it on a shoulder like, you got to look at this. Check this out. They're going again.

It was incredible. What a start to that. The thing is like, look, I am not pro fighting. I am one of those wet rags on in the hockey world who thinks that fighting is, it's archaic. It's with all we know about CTE. It's so stupid. It's somehow, I contradict myself. it's even dumber now that they fight with helmets and visors on.

Like, what are you accomplishing by punching a dude in the plastic helmet? Like, fighting is so dumb. And the worst fights are staged fights, where it's like a guy says before a puck go, hey, let's fight.

So stupid. It's one thing if you're defending a teammate. Stage fights are so stupid. They're a scourge on the game. This is awesome. Like, I can't get around how much, how just,

it was like a Chuck's just understanding the moment, right? Absolutely. This was like, If it's ever going to happen, this is when you do it. The anthem just got booed. You're playing your arch rival. You know people are watching. Screw it.

Let's fight right now. I love that there was like a group chat where they were deciding to do this. Like everything I hate about hockey happened there. And it was amazing. Amazing. Yeah. A friend of mine texted me and was like, does this make any sense? This seems like a terrible strategy.

You know, he's not a huge hockey fan. He's like these are the guys that scored all the goals. The other game, why are they fighting and going in the penalty box right away? And I was like, yeah, no, you're not wrong, like in theory, but also they're just sending a message, right? It's we're in this environment that is so hostile, so angry. Like, it would be very easy for that moment to get away from Team USA, especially at the beginning. Granted, I admit, getting anything I'm short-handed out of all that is not ideal. But it really did, I think, accomplish the goal.

Well, if anyone's going to do that, it's going to be J.T. Miller. But Cuch's know how to skate the line, right? That's right. They know how to start things and not get the instigator. J.T. Miller, he was so desperate for. a fight. He had a cross-checked dude to start one. So that's why you got, that's how they were short-ended. But I think it was mission accomplished. I think it did accomplish the goal of like, we're not afraid of any of this. We're right here. They got to play us. And I think that's how

Team USA played the entire night. And also, I mean, it is part show, right? Like, this is not, like, as, as intense as this is and clearly the players are, have completely bought into this tournament. It's also an exhibition, right? Like, it's, it is for show. It is to, quote, grow the game. And the Kachucks, I mean, thank God, the NHL has the Kachs, right? You need people like this. And they understand the moment and they understand that if we do this, it's going to rat, this game is going to be more entertaining. It's going to draw eyeballs and it's going to get our team fired up. It served all purposes at once. It did everything that they wanted to accomplish on and off the ice. It accomplished. I mean, it was, it's the dumbest thing in the world

and it was genius. I think this game as a whole, everything we got out of it justified the entire four nations tournament, which I think honestly by PuckDrop had already been accomplished. I think people were really into it. Oh, the first game was great. The Sweden Canada game was great. Yeah. But I think, you know, and a Sweden-Finland game earlier Saturday was outstanding as well. Yeah, I put in our live blog, I was live blog, I said, you know, Sweden, Finland, you know, I won't want to see U.S. Canada, but this is going to be the one that's intense. Yeah, I was an idiot. I was wrong. They were both great games, though, right? They were intense, but it wasn't as intense as U.S. Canada was.

100%. And it was just everything you wanted it to be. I really wish, that's a game I really wish that I would have covered would have been in attendance for. I can't imagine the building atmosphere. And just the way the game plays out, right? So you have all the fireworks right off the hop, then USA kills a penalty. But still, Canada strikes first. And it is the best player in the world, getting loose with his signature skill.

He made, you know, as I think Corey put in our chat or somebody put in the live in the live blog, made Charlie McAvoy is one of the best defensemen in the NHL like a pylon and then made kind of helter, absolutely. Yeah, like Adam Fox, you know, he's a great defenseman, but he's not the best skater in a world. Charlie McAvoy is a great skater.

And he got turned inside out. Like, that was constantly. McDavid doing the things that only Connor McDavid can do. And that's again, you want to see that on this stage. That's what makes it special. No offense to Sam Reinhart, who's a phenomenal player. Nobody's tuning in to see Sam Reinhardt score a goal from two inches

out by muscling out somebody in the crease, right? You want to see Connor McDavid just blow by guys and make moves at full speed. I mean, everything you wanted out of this game you got, unless you're Canadian, obviously. 100%. And Let's go there, right? Because I don't think Canada played a bad game.

I think this was a very tight game that ultimately gets decided by a couple of plays. And I think in Canada, it's inescapable that on the Canadian side of that, they're going to say that was decided by Jordan Bennington on both of those plays. Yeah, it's tough, right? Because Bennington has played respectively in these two games. Like, his overall stats are fine. They're in line with what Sweden and Finland's goaltending has been.

Connor Helibuck's on another planet right now. But Bennington's been okay, but there's been a few, but the few goals he's given up have been pretty bad, right? The Larkin goal was uncontested. the uh who had the the one timer i can't even remember there's just a few goals that uh you got to stop on this stage right you got to be able to make those stops and he's not would aden hill have made him i don't know would sam montaboa made him i don't know would logan thompson have made him probably but he's not available uh we've been talking for a year since this was announced a full year

of the crisis in canadian goaltending and we're seeing it because i think jordan bittington might start on monday too because i'm not sure that they feel aden hill all that much better. Well, the thing is, to your point, he has played okay in these tournaments. He's just that some of the goals that have gone in are the growners, the ones that you were afraid of the whole time. He's also made some spectacular ones, stopping some much lower percentage. Right.

And that's the thing with these tournaments. We saw this in Sochi in 2014 is you're not going to, like, when you're playing the truly elite teams, the defense tends to win out, right? These tend to be low scoring, relatively low event affairs. So one bad goal will cost you the game. Like that U.S. Finland game is the exception. We're going to see a lot more games like that U.S. Canada game, just like Team Canada in 2014, just choked everybody out and won one-one-nothing every game.

So you have to be able to stop everything because the margin for error is so thin. Do you think we're getting a rematch of this game? Let's go here next because I think there's some Team Canada, big picture talk that we will get to. I think all of it will be colored by whether or not they get another chance at Team USA or not. Look, I am a big Finland guy. I like the way they play. They always seem to win. Kevin Lankinen has come up really big in international tournaments before.

I think, I assume Canada's going to win. The question for me isn't, is Canada going to win? It's do we want Canada win? I mean, yeah, we want to see another team USA Canada. But it's not going to top that. Should we just like quit while we're ahead and get US Sweden? Like, do we kind of, do we risk almost tainting that amazing evening by having a lesser game potentially on Thursday? I don't think it can be tainted, but I see your point.

right? Like if that's the last time we get USA Canada until the Olympics, there is... Oh, come on. I think I want the rematch, but I'm a glutton. So anyone who's ever seen me at a buffet knows that I'm not delaying gratification on that. But I do got, you know, Sweden played Canada to overtime, too.

Sweden's legit powerhouse team. So when the U.S. plays Sweden, it might be meaningless game. So I would like to see a U.S. Sweden game that has some weight to it. But of course, I want to see U.S. Canada And I'm just, I just, like, it was such a perfect moment in the hockey world. We saw the ratings. The ratings will be very big next time to, even if it won't have that kind of like instantaneous. Like, it was just the perfect storm, right?

Like, people were watching the game that wanted to watch the game. But if you were on social media, all of a sudden that the way it started happened with the three fights and nine seconds and like political reporters were tweeting about the game and entertainment podcasters were tweeting about the game, people who would never tweet about hockey. All people were talking about was hockey, not the NBA. you know, skills competition or anything. It was all about hockey, and that's what juices the ratings, right? That's what people tune in, like, to see the curiosity, what the hell is going on here? And then they stick around because the hockey was, that's one of the fastest games I've ever seen. Like, that was the sport at its best, superstar talent is doing superstar talent things.

It was a perfect storm, and that's what grows the game, right? People who don't watch hockey watch hockey on Saturday night. And that's the whole point. That's what we're always talking about with the Olympics. That's why it's worth loaning out your players and risking. injury because it makes the game bigger. Hockey was the biggest story on Saturday night. That never happens, ever.

God, especially an All-Star weekend. There's never been an All-Star game that carried the weight that Saturday night carried. So can we duplicate that? If people tune in on third, if it's U.S. Canada in the final, they tune in. What if it's not as good? I don't know. I just like, it was such a perfect moment. Like, of course I want to see U.S. Canada again.

But I kind of want that perfect moment in time. And like you said, when they meet in Milano Cortina, all that baggage is still there. That's what I kind of want to see. Yeah, and we won't get it on this level. People have talked about this, but the double IHF rules in the Olympics will mean that you're not getting three fights.

You might not get any fights. You're certainly not getting three in the first 10th. Which is fine, because if they do it again, it's going to feel almost like cheesy, right? Yeah. Yeah, there was something about the pent up. You know, we haven't done this in forever. Let's just get this out of the way and go at it.

I think I do want to see it again, but I'm open to really all outcomes here. I think this tournament has been so good. I really believe any team in this tournament can beat any other on the right day. And that is a beautiful place to be, if you're running this tournament, if you're the NHL. Because you can say, yeah, Canada is clearly more talented than Finland. I thought Canada was pretty clearly more talented than Sweden. And I thought Sweden deserved to win that game by the run of play.

I thought Sweden was better than that. They started so, so poorly in that game. They just, it was the, you're digging out of a hole the whole time. But for the last 50 minutes, Sweden was the better team. Absolutely. And I think Finland, you know, say what you. want about the roster and especially the blue line of the roster, their centers down the lineup can absolutely go toe to toe to toe with Canada setters. You're talking about Alexander

Barkoff. We've seen him outplay Connor McDavid, certainly in one game, but over the course of a series, in my opinion, I would have given him the Khan Smite. That's for another day. Sebastian Aho can go toe to toe to toe with any of those guys. Rope Hens, Anton Lendell. You were talking about maybe even more than the U.S. a team that can go toe to toe to toe with their centers. Yeah, I mean, that's the whole strength of the Finns, right? I like that they moved Rope Hens up to the second line to put him in the top six as a winger. They kind of like, all right, well, we're playing against, you know, a team with just overloaded top line, two top two lines.

We got to overload. And that's how they, they trust Anton Lundell, who is just like, he's one of those guys that I'm so glad to see him having a moment. Like there's so many guys, and that the finish team is loaded with that. Louis-Rine and like, they're just loaded with it. Rubei Hins is another one. Or, you know, if you're a hockey person, you understand this. If you're a hockey writer, you know how good they are.

But your casual fans probably don't know much about Anton Lundon. Lundel. Rupa Hints, they're not big stars in big markets, right? They're great players in lesser markets that don't get the same kind of viewership. And I love that they're getting this kind of stage. And that's kind of why, again, I might be the only person that kind of wants to see Finland to pull this entire tournament out because I just, I can't help but root for the underdog, especially all the injuries they have. They're missing their top defensement, all that. But it's just, it's cool to see players that I really have come to enjoy watching perform on the biggest stage. I think it's really cool when you get to see guys do that.

Yeah. Those scenarios for Monday will be Canada can clinch a spot in the final by defeating Finland in regulation. That's an auto bid. Or if they can beat Finland in overtime or a shootout and get any result in U.S. Sweden other than a Sweden regulation win, then Canada's in. Finland gets in if it beats Canada in regulation, just straight up, or it can get in if it beats Canada an O-T or a shootout and then the same deal, any result of U.S. Sweden other than a Sweden regulation win. Sweden has the longer path here. They need to beat the U.S. in regulation and have Canada, Finland, go to overtime or shootout. Those are the scenarios you're watching for Monday. Let's take a quick break. We'll come right back and talk about some other big picture stuff with Canada.

All right, Laz, let's get back to talking about Team Canada and a little bit of kind of where they're going from here. And I think the first and maybe most important question is what's Kail McCarr's status going to be? Because we talk about this amazing USA Canada game, and it really was, we saw it without one of the more interesting storylines coming in, which was McCar and Hughes. We knew Hughes wasn't going to be in because of the injury. Canada then loses McCar. I do wonder, obviously, you can do this both ways. Well, would it look like with Hughes there, but I think it's a little bit different for Canada if McCar's up there right on their top power play. Well, yeah, I mean, we can wonder about what if Quinn Hughes were playing, but he's not going to

play. Kail McCar is almost certainly going to play if there's a rematch on Thursday. You practice again on Sunday. It sure seems like he's on the cusp of playing. Look, if you watch that game, Canada got nothing from the back end really offensively. Thomas Harley all credits him, steps in with absolutely no practice time, and he played great. He was very good. But there didn't seem to be much like the forwards were really carrying the play for Team Canada. There wasn't a lot of Oom from the back end. And I think that's one of the, you know, you look at these two teams, that should be the strength of both teams.

Team USA had it and Team Canada did not. Kail McCar is a one man, you know, he's just the engine of an whole, offense. He's a one man, a zone entry machine. He's everything you need back there, and he's going to play 26 minutes if he's playing. So there's certainly a different team with Kail McCar. You look at the Canadian defense, and it's not that impressive. Team USA has the impressive defense. Team Canada doesn't. So Kail McCar makes a massive difference for them. And frankly, Canada, they were at the very worst, they went toe to toe with America, right? It was just goaltending. That was maybe the difference in a couple of finishing by, you know, Dylan Larkin and all that.

this is not like, this was not a blowout by American standards. If you look at all the, all the numbers, Canada outplayed Team USA a little bit. So you bring Cal McCar in, you get a second chance at it, and Canada might still be even favored. There's some secondary effects too, right? I didn't think Devin Taves was particularly good in that game. I think he looks a lot better with his most regular defense partner alongside him. And, you know, you could say what you want about, you know, that's one thing. These are all star players.

I do think, especially in a tournament this short when these guys have been together so little, You put guys in the familiar spots. Everything is easier. And I think the power play, certainly, you know, Canada had power play opportunities that they didn't take advantage of. And I just like their odds more with Gil McCar up top there. I kind of disagree with you on the whole putting the line together. Like it drove me nuts that John Cooper kept thrown out of literally a Tampa Bay lightning line in an all-star best-on-best tournament. You just kept throwing it.

Like, you don't throw three lightning guys out there. Make a super line. Let's like, like, I don't need the built-in chemistry, whatever. That's not what I'm here to see. I'm not here to see Anthony Sorrelli and Brandon Hagle play on the same line. Come on. Like, I don't like seeing that. I get it.

I understand that coaches always revert to their security blankets. But A, that's not what I want to see in these tournaments. B, I'm not sure that's what's best in these tournaments. You want some, like, energy and juice in there. Yeah, I think it is a little bit different with the D pair versus a forward line. I don't mind Hagle and Sorrelli together. I think it's adding point there that makes it a little like, oh, you're getting a little gimmicky, actually, with this. Now, maybe there's a we want you to do.

this specific thing. When you're putting those three together, you're doing it for a certain matchup, right? You are, but I think you're losing a little bit of the playmaking that I would want. I think point is kind of more finisher. I think Hagle probably best cast in Sorrelli certainly as like gritty finishers, but

they're there to check. I think I want a playmaker there with those guys just to capitalize a little bit more. Not the points out of playmaker, but I think I think of him more as a scorer, more so than set up then personally. Yeah, and it just felt like, you know, Cooper's like, I need something with some built-in chemistry.

And those three guys don't play together all the time. That's not a line in Tampa. So just sticking them together doesn't really give you anything new there. And I think it was a little bit of a case of Cooper getting a little too cute. And we've seen that with these tournaments before. We want to put guys like that together. What I like to see is what Sullivan did. And it took them a while.

We talked about this on the show. I think we recorded after the first game that I was really hoping to see the Kachuk brothers on a line together. And for whatever reason, they weren't going to do that. That's what I want to see in these tournaments. Like you got a chance to put Kachuk and Kachuk on a line, the two biggest, you know, you know what disturbers in the league and their brothers. So there's going to be some natural chemistry. Why wouldn't you do that? And it took like a period and a half before they realized, oh, we should do this.

And it worked beautifully. Well, that's the beautiful thing I think about this tournament is it gives both of these countries the chance to try all of these things before the Olympics, right? Like, honestly, if you're picking Team USA today, is Brady Kachuk your captain like after what you've seen out of him and all this? He very well could be if it's me picking him, right? But I think that's an advantage because I don't think I'd have started the Kachucks together either. I think I would have wanted one of them on each of my top two lines to ensure that I had one on the ice a little bit more often.

But then you see how it all goes when they're together. And it seems like how could you have ever not done this? So it's a great lab opportunity. They change their lines a lot between the game we wanted to. Dylan Larkinsard is right wing on the fourth line in that first game. He's maybe the hero of the game for them in game number two playing what I think of as his kind of prototypical role there as a center and on a matchup kind of line.

That's a great point. We've been talking about this tournament as kind of like an audition for some fringe guys to make sure they're on the team in 2026 for the Olympics. But it is an opportunity to see what works and what doesn't because most of these guys are going to be on the team in 2026. I've been so thinking about the present. I haven't really thought that much about that. That's a great point that you are getting a chance, like lab scenario to figure out who works with whom and who doesn't. And we're seeing what works and what works is freaking Kachuk brothers together. and it's great.

And Mike Sullivan doesn't need any time in a lab to know what Jake Gensel is, but I think Jake Gensel now just showed everybody, right? I came into this thinking like he was a little more of like he got himself on the right side of the bubble here. He's all absolute lock now at this point. He has been excellent alongside everybody he's played with, scored big goals, just a slam dunk now. And so I think that helps too.

What will be interesting is now the coaches and the GMs and the execs picking these teams are going to go back and they'll kind of know, okay, we're going to put the Kachukes with Ikel, we're going to do this. They're going to find some things and go, I didn't like how that guy looked with these lines, and someone's going to lose their spot that way to a certain kind of element that someone feels, it thinks that they need next to Vincent Trocheck or Dylan Larkin or Austin Matthews. Right. I mean, if you're like Team Finland, there's only so many guys, right?

Like the group that you have is there's basically an NHL team's worth of NHL players for Finland. But for the team USA, there's a lot of guys that could be on the scene. There's Tage Thompson just waiting in the wings, having a great year ever, ever since this roster was chosen. Chris Kreider, he's going to get a chance to get in there now with Matthew Kachuk out for at least the third prelim game. He's going to have to show something. He's up there in age. He's not having a great season. He's going to have to show that he can provide a role in order to stave off someone like Tage Thompson because there's a lot of those guys waiting in

the wings trying to get in here. There's not a ton of flexibility. Most of these spots are locked up, but there are two or three spots that are available. And those guys are either fighting for them or hoping that someone falters and they get a chance to get in. One guy who I think we can say their spot is pretty safe is that's Sidney Crosby. I thought he was Canada's best player by far in the first game. And then obviously it's a quiet offensive night for Canada as a whole in game two. I wonder, what are you thinking on Crosby here? Obviously, he's put the next one to the side.

He's safe here. What are you looking for from him as his tournament goes on? We know he came in a little bit banged up. How are you assessing Sidney Crosby, who obviously was. the star of the pod you did with Robin Peter last week. Look, like, Sidney Crosby is on a one-game losing streak in international play. I think he's washed. I think it's over.

I don't think, you know, it's, it's funny how people are still, like, freaking out about it was Sidney Crosby. He's playing hurt. Yeah. Like, he's clearly playing hurt. And the fact that he had three assists in such spectacular fashion in the opener is just a testament to the greatness of Sidney Crosby. And we talked about it on the show that we somehow take him for granted.

Like, as great as we all know he is, we don't treat him. him the way we should. Like, he is still one of the best players in the league. My question, I'm sure Sidney Crosby will be fine. He'll figure out a way to Z. He's a big-time player who steps up in the big-time moments. We've seen it for two decades now. If you're a Penguins fan, are you pissed right now?

If you watch, like Quinn Hughes said, you know what? As badly as I want to be in this, it's not right by my team, my actual team to play in this. I need to time off. Sidney Crosby has hurt. And I know the penguins aren't really in the playoff race, but they're not really out of it either. technically they're in that Eastern Conference mush. Are you allowed to be mad at Sidney Crosby, or does Sidney Crosby get Grace because he's Sydney freaking Crosby?

He gets grace for that reason and because these are pretty obviously the most meaningful games that Sidney Crosby is going to play between now and Milan 2026. I've on this pod probably slandered the Penguins a little too much of what their actual chances are getting back in this race. But these are the games that will mean the most to Sidney Crosby. in that time span, especially as he has been incredibly loyal. Like, he's sticking with the penguins.

He's not going to make them do a song and dance of free agency. He got that extension done. I think you got to let him have these moments and give as much as he wants to give here to Team Canada because the penguins aren't really playing for anything and may not again, at least in the foreseeable future. It's tough, right? He is not doing right by the Pittsburgh Penguins here. The Penguins are doing right by him by being cool with it.

And Penguins fans are too. and he's earned that. I get it. But he's not doing right by the Pittsburgh Penguins. And, you know, I feel like the Penguins are, you know, Kyle Dubus and Ron Hextel before him, we're always like, we have to do right by Sid. Every roster move they made, every, every like we're still trying to win now move they made of the last few years has been out of respect and deference to Sidney Crosby. And it's been that way for a long time. And look, I'm not here to besmirch the name of Crosby. Like, it's not what I'm doing here. but it's interesting to me that he put Team Canada ahead of the Pittsburgh Penguins.

There's absolutely no way to look at this in any other way. He prioritized Team Canada over the Pittsburgh Penguins. And it's to do that, I guess, but any other player did that, and we'd be just tearing them a new one. Well, I think it's just what has Sidney Crosby done for the Pittsburgh Penguins? Has anyone done more for the Pittsburgh Penguins since year? Sure. And I get it.

I totally get it. But it's, it's fascinating that he's reached a point in his career where he's, able to do this because I don't think there's another player in the league who could. Evgeny Malkin, I don't think gets this leeway if Russia were in this thing and he were hurt. I think so just because they're not meaningful games for the penguins the rest of the way. I mean, he could miss a week or he could miss two weeks with the penguins. What if the penguins were tied for the second wild card spot right now? Do you think Sidney Crosby wasn't going to play in this tournament?

I don't know. I think he probably would, but I think it'd be a more valid more valid gripe if that were the case than it is. Yeah, I'm not even trying to say there's a gripe. I'm just saying like he's reached this point of his career that nobody else that we've seen in a long time has reached. Like Quinn Hughes, you know, Quinn Hughes could have said, screw it. I was able to play these last couple of games. I'm going to go play for Team USA. He put his team first.

And he would have been probably in that market in Vancouver would have been eaten alive if he went to the Four Nations and looked visibly hurt. Right? Yeah. And Quinn is the captain also and he's a superstar and everybody loves. him, but he's not Sydney Crosby. So he doesn't get to do this. Yeah, I'm trying to think, you know, the only comp I can kind of come to mind, and you'd have to talk more about this than I would because I was so young, but Steve Eiserman

in 02 on the knee in Vancouver for Canada, and he was very clearly banged up through the Red Vings playoff run that year. Do you remember this? First of all, go to hell for being young. I was 22 then. I was not paying a whole lot of attention. I'm not going to lie. I was seven.

I hate you, and I want you to go to hell. Yeah, I mean, and if that's the case, that was 23 years ago that we haven't, it's literally the entire generation of players that have come through. And yeah, Steve Eiserman in Detroit was equivalent to what Sydney Crosby is in Pittsburgh. So it takes that level of player to do it. We hinted at it in the last segment here. But what do you think Canada needs to do here to rebound and make this a success? Are you good with Jordan Bennington going again? I would put in Aden Hill, just me.

James Myrtle had a column up today, basically, St. the same thing because, again, that margin of error is so thin and Bennington has given up at least one bad goal in both games. That's not acceptable at this level if you're trying to win. So I would put in Aden Hill. He's, you know, played in Stanley Cup situations. He understands the big moment. It's tough when you haven't played a game in a week and a half or whatever it's been for him. But I would take the chance and do that. I think just having Kalemakar back will make a massive difference. I mean, he is, you know, Quinn Hughes is the MVP this year in my mind. Cal McCar is the best defenseman in the world.

Like I don't think anyone, like there's a difference. You can say the two things. Like, Cal McCar is the biggest difference maker potentially of any team in the NHL. Nobody does what Cal McCar does. And getting him back alone will give not just Canada more, you know, more structure and more ability offensively. It gives him more confidence. When you look back there and you see Cal McCar, you're like, all right, we're okay. At the risk of sniping one of the later days this week,

who I'm sure will make their whole show out of this if things don't go well for Canada. on Monday. What if Canada does not make this final? Are you panic at all if your hockey Canada? Or is this, this is a four, you know, four, give three game tournament in their case. And you move on and, you know, you still have arguably the most talented roster, certainly one of the two most talented rosters. The answer is both, right?

Like, you know deep down that you're probably going to be just fine and this is a fluky thing. And you lost an overtime in one game and whatever. But it will be full blown meltdown because that's what Canada does when they lose, right? You have summits. and what do we call them like, you know, seminars and whatever the hell they do, they're going to have a whole goal-tending crisis management team. And like, this is what Canada does because this is Canada's sport.

It always has been. It always will be. And if, you know, you start losing and USA starts thinking it's their sport, that's not going to go over well. So it will be a crisis. It shouldn't be a crisis. And deep down, they'll know it won't be a crisis, but they'll be like a performative crisis, right? Where we have to, we're going to address these things and make sure we're ready for a bond. they'll be fine. They've got Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon and a million other great players.

Canada is fine. Whether they win this tournament or not, whether they make the final or not, Canada is still probably the favorite even potentially going into Milan. But we'll see a lot of very public gnashing of teeth and rending of garments and wringing over this. All right, Lance, here's the question for you. There's been a lot of guys as the tournament has progressed. And you mentioned one earlier at Anton Lindell, who I think to the casual fan or maybe someone who is a big fan of their team, but doesn't watch the whole league that often, and are getting a more in-depth look at a bunch of great stars in smaller markets, or maybe even not even smaller markets, just markets outside their own.

Who's raised their profile the most for you so far at this event? You mentioned Jake Gensel. He's probably one of them. I mean, he's kind of a, he was a secondary figure in Pittsburgh because of the star power there. And then in Carolina, you're kind of always a little bit in obscurity. It's Dylan Larkin. It's your guy. It's the guy you cover.

I mean, you know how good Dylan Larkin is. I don't feel like he's considered on the same level as a lot of the guys that are in this tournament. He's not a megastar. He's, you know, Detroit star, but he's not a megastar. But he has been fabulous in the two games so far. He scored the go-ahead goal against Canada on just like a nice simple snipe job. Dylan Larkin is controlling play. The fancy stats are great.

The eye test is great. He's on the score sheet. On one of the most crowded rosters are just full of stars, Dylan Larkin is separating them. self, which is, that's the kind of guy you can do it. We talked going into the turn about Kyle Connor. A lot of us thought Kyle Connor was going to be the guy who was going to be kind of the breakout star. It's not. It's Dylan Larkin. Yeah, Larkin, his whole career has really suffered from not having a good beat writer who could tell everyone how good he was. No, you know, the Redmond's not being in the playoffs, I think, is the biggest culprit for that, right? He's

not been on the stage where everyone can watch him and see, not only like that he's really good. I think everyone on these teams are all really really good. But it's too. things. It's one, he does have a huge feel for the moment, which is a strange thing to hear about a guy who hasn't been in the moment to prove that, so to speak. But they had, you know, down their stretch run last year, he was outstanding. Him and Lucas Raymond both.

And no surprise, they both been excellent in this tournament. So there's that. I also think there's just dimensions to his game that don't get noticed as often, right? And I think people think about him for the fastest skater competition, because that's the kind of event that was always where you would see Dylan Larkin. I think his

defense and his two-way and his compete are all things that are intertwined, that it's, they sound so empty when you just say them like that. But a game like this, you see them all come out, right? Dylan Larkin has the goal and in a huge moment, that is fantastic. But coming into this event, one of the things I was looking forward to is I have watched Dylan Larkin go head to head with McDavid several times. The Oilers, it's probably a 50-50 hit, right? Maybe the Oilers get a little bit of the edge on that because the Irvings have been bad.

Larkin has always been excellent against McDavid. And I thought him being on Team USA, the role he was kind of meant to play was. their third line center, a guy getting a ton of minutes against McDavid. I actually haven't even been able to look and find the like direct matchup, like how much time he was on the ice against McDavid. He was not out there for McDavid's goal that he scored on Hellebuck early in that game, I don't believe. He's always done really well in that kind of role.

And that's the kind of thing I felt this tournament with spotlight in his game, but he finds a way to not completely erase star players, but keep him in check because he can skate with them and he can, you know, bring the pressure in their end of the ice, make him play defense. I think he nailed it. Like the fact that. He hasn't been in the playoffs is why we don't talk about him. But, you know, I've been a beat writer for a long time.

You've been a beat writer for a long time. You always see those guys who are like, that guy would kill it in the playoffs. This guy, like there are big moments in meaningless games, right? In the game, it matters. And you see the guys that come through. Brandon Hagle, when he was a Black Hawk, I'm like, this guy's going to be freaking awesome. You can just tell that if he ever gets a chance to be on a good team, he's going to be awesome.

And he goes to Tampa and what is he? He's awesome. So like Dylan Larkin, like, there's so many reasons I want to, to see Detroit make the playoffs. I want I want to be in Little Caesar's Arena when there's a playoff environment there because, you know, that building is a clone of the Bell Center. And all we've heard over the last week is how loud and cool it's been in the Bell Center. We know how great the fans are in Detroit. And in that kind of building where you're right on top of the ice, that place will be bonkers for a playoff game if the Red Wings ever actually

make it. And a guy like Larkin, I have no doubt would come through. And you've seen it more than I have certainly because you see it even in meaningless, you know, death march games in late February where it doesn't matter, there are moments within the game that matter. And they certainly matter to the guys on the ice. And you can see who tends to come through and who has that will and who has that extra little jump in their step. And Dylan Larkin, I think we're seeing it now is one of those guys.

Yeah, I'm really happy for him that he's gotten to have this moment. I'll give you another guy. It's Noah Hannafin. I think Charlie McAvoy had some of the highlight defensive plays, the big hits on McDavitt. He also got burned really badly by McDaniel. David, let's not forget. Yes, that is true.

But I think he made up for it with the one of the next play that started the next rush. I think Noah Hanofin, you know, and people know Noah Hanofin, you know, certainly now that he's in Vegas, it's a little bit of a higher profile team to be on. I think he's been excellent in this tournament and was really good against Canada. Yeah, and he's not a guy. Like, I think people kind of almost raised their eyebrows when he made this team. It's like, really, Noah Hanifin? And he's just been a good player for a long time, but he's not that superstar high profile guy.

again, a guy if you see on a regular basis, yeah, this guy can hang, but not a big name. And that's who you like to see step up in these events. Even Thomas Harley, like, he's a young guy. He, you know, it was fabulous as a rookie with Dallas. It seemed to be taking a bit of a step back this year almost, especially early in the year. He wasn't really producing. But this is a great player.

And he gets to step in and have this moment, this like hero Willis Reed moment almost where he just walks in out of the blue and it's just terrific. And you love seeing that. Like, yeah, we all want to see Connor McDavid, just. blow through the neutral zone and makes them sick move. But it's really cool to see a Noah Haniffin make a play, you know, to step up in a moment like that, to see a Thomas Harley have this hero moment and maybe the only game he plays in this tournament.

That's cool to see. And I'm glad that these guys are getting those moments. Ricard Raquel, a guy who I don't think was even on Sweden's initial roster, playing a huge role for them and been really good. There's been a number of guys in this tournament. Thomas Harley, right? Like, again, another replacement guy who comes in and makes a little bit of a name for himself on a big stage.

So I think those have been some of the most fun storylines to watch emerge here. And the only thing it really makes me feel for is that we don't have more countries here because I think there are more guys like that. Oh, God. Switzerland's of the world that when this is the Olympics. Slovakia, like, one of the moments that sticks out to me the most in Sochi was, it was Yaroslav Halak after Slovakia lost and was eliminated, I think they were playing the U.S., and they got eliminated from the tournament in the medal round.

And he was damn near tears. and he's talking about like, we have nobody. There's nobody coming. Like the Slovakian pipeline has dried up. This might have been our last chance to play. This is a proud, you know, this is Ziki Palfi and all these great players that came through there. And Halak was like, there's just nobody.

We have nobody in the league anymore, no young guys. And that's kind of replenished in recent years. And I want to see Slovakia get a chance to have that huge upset moment. You got to have Czechie in there. That's a great hockey country, obviously. You know, I talked to Freddie Anderson a couple of weeks ago about Denmark. And now he went back for the summer. just to qualify to get Denmark and the Olympics

because it means so much to that country. Like you need those. Like the four nations thing, this is, this tournament has worked out terrifically. Nobody can dispute that. But it does not feel like a true Olympic caliber tournament because there's not enough teams. Leon Drysidal is not,

it's funny, you're watching the games and ESPN keeps having like, you know, a Milano Cortina commercial and there's Leon Drysidle and there's David Posternak. Well, where the hell are they in this tournament, right? Like I remember at the Olympics last year, they were announcing this thing and Posternach's holding a scrum and I basically asked him and I'm like,

does this all piss you off? And he looks at me, he goes, yeah. It's like, they want to be in this too, right? This is the most global of North American sports. And we're doing a disservice to a lot of places. So like that, at least for the Olympics, we have that to look forward to.

Slovakia is going to get a crack of Canada, right? You know, Switzerland's going to get a chance at, you know, Sweden. Like, there needs to be more of that because, like, that's some of the most fun you have are those. lesser games where, you know, teams that aren't going to medal, but they're trying to get a win, a win over a big country and it means the world. Have you looked at what the Swiss roster is going to be like for, for 2026, by the way? I have not gotten that far ahead.

It's like sneaky deeper than, than you think when I say that out loud, right? So up front. They get better every year. Yeah. Nico Hesha, Hescher, Timo Meyer, Kevin Fiala, Nino Niederwriter, P.U. Souter. Like, they got some guys up front, not to mention Roman Yosi, Yonisiegantthal, on the back end. I think Switzerland might be the hot upset pick to knock off a favorite in Milan. Absolutely.

We see that happen. You just get the goalie at the right moment. And Sochi wasn't the Latvian goalie made like 55 saved against Canada and almost beat Canada. That was like the moment of the tournament. That was so cool. Latvians, U-20s beat Canada at the World Juniors this cycle. It was incredible. Latvians were like the story.

Latvians were like the story of the tournament in this world. juniors. They were incredible. I really hope some of that carries over. That's what makes these tournaments, right? Like when, what was it? It was 2002 is a Salt Lake where a Belarus upset Sweden and like, I think Tommy Sallow gave us some horrible goal from like center ice. And there was like a newspaper in Sweden that just like had all their mugshot and said they betrayed their country. Like it was like, it was absolute meltdown in Sweden and like Belarus is like yeah. That's what you want. That's the whole point of these tournaments. I don't want to just see Canada.

the U.S. I want to see those little countries have their big moments. Yeah. That being said, I really want to see Canada against U.S. I've decided since segment one, but I really wanted for Thursday. So we've been talking a lot about the atmosphere of that game. What's the best atmosphere you have ever been at, either as a fan or as a journalist? Well, I've never covered an NHL playoff game. So like, that's already a up-up battle. It's the 2016 Michigan, Ohio State football game, the game that was decided by the fourth down spot. Okay, okay. That was a pretty incredible atmosphere.

I have to say, I'm very proud to have gone to Michigan. If I was a 17-year-old high school senior, it was a recruit, and I was at that game, I'm a visit. I had committed on the spot. That's how good that atmosphere at that game was in Columbus that day. Oh, man, you just opened the door to a lot because I went to Northwestern, and we had some amazing wins. And everyone knows the Northwestern football atmosphere. Well, that's what I'm saying. We had the one year where it was good in 2000.

And God, I went to some of those Knicks Heat and Nick's Pacers and Nick's Bulls playoff games. games in the 90s, that's some great atmosphere. So that you just made it a lot harder. From a hockey standpoint, I've covered, I think over 100 playoff games now. And I've seen some beauties. Don't get me wrong, but it was US Russia in Sochi, a game that proved to be absolutely meaningless because neither team did anything. But at the time, it was like the world stopped.

Like, it was so hard to get a ticket to that. I had to like pull like 20 strings just to get a media ticket to that game. I was sitting 10 rows in front of Vladimir Putin. I had better seats than Putin. because they put the press right in the middle of center ice. It was so great. And that atmosphere, that was the T.J. O'Shee shootout was the tensest, like the home crowd needed. They needed it so bad.

And they didn't get it. And it felt like someone was going to, like, you know, fire off a nuclear weapon afterward. It was, it was, that atmosphere was amazing. And, like, U.S. Canada, in a theoretically meaningless tournament seemed to match that, like, which is just incredible that this tournament matches. manage to pull that off. All I heard is that someone out there has a still image of Lazan, Vladimir Putin in the same shot. And I'm going to need that picture. I took a selfie. I have a picture of me with Putin in the background. You can't really make out who it is, but trust

me, he's there. All right. Well, I'm going to be spending the next hour trying to bribe our producer to make that the cover of this episode. So that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the F. Lettokie Show. The Wednesday by Sean Gentile, Sean McIndoo, and Frankie Carrado have the next episode. We'll talk to you soon.