The Athletic Hockey Show - USA cuts Will Smith from WJC roster, Chicago Blackhawks prospects on Canada’s blue line, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series is back with a brand new episode as Max, Corey, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters discuss top US NHL Draft eligible Will Smith getting cut from Team USA’s World Junior roster, Team Canada’s blue line full of Chicago Blackhawks prospects, and the guys answer a bunch of listener questions in the mailbag to close things out. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. A Max Bolman here alongside Corey Pranman and Chris Peters of Flohockey. Back with another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series. Today we are talking World Juniors. Corey just got back from Team USA's camp. I bumped into him for several minutes there. And we got some Team Canada. We got Team Canada's final roster to talk about, plus a pretty good mailbag today.

So I want to dive right in guys with Team USA's camp, partly because it's the one that I attended, so it's easy for me. But we still don't have the final roster here. As we record this on Thursday morning, could have a few more cuts as of the time this airs. But the big news, I think, coming out of Wednesday night, is that Will Smith, one of the top draft eligible, probably the top draft eligible for the United States, is not going to be on this roster, Corey. he missed the selection camp with an illness. Correct. He was there during the first day of the camp and then missed the next two days leading into his cut.

I think Chris could probably talk about this a little bit more intelligently, but I believe he had heard he was on the bubble going into camp. You know, there was probably a roster battle there would say a guy like a Jackson Blake, who we saw in the rotation on the power play there when we were at the camp. And I think Smith's bubble status combined with the fact that he got sick, and I think USA not wanting a significant illness spreading throughout the team, were factors that led to the cut. Chris, what did you think of that one?

Yeah, I mean, I think that that, I think there was a lot of, if he never got sick, I think he would have been in the camp longer. You know, I think he would have been, I don't think you would have been one of the first cuts. You know, he's just such a dynamic player. And they have good skill players on this team. But, I mean, he brings an element that, you know, I thought they would be useful. But they've had bad experiences in the past with players, you know, kind of getting sick. And then it kind of spreads through the team.

And then you got problems. Like that's the crazy thing about the world juniors is that, you know, we've had these issues before. Like I remember Sweden and Vancouver had a flu running through their team. And it really can impact everything. So I do think that this was some risk mitigation on top of, you know, the fact that they felt like if he wasn't going to be part of their top six that he might not be part of the team. I always think, you know, that 13th forward is such a valuable spot because it gives you a guy that you can plug into a lot of different places. And there's different philosophies about how to use that spot. I personally think that it should be, you know, somebody that can score and Will Smith can score.

And so, you know, I'll be interested to see kind of how that shakes out now. But I think had he not gotten sick, I think we would have seen him in the camp longer to give him a more of a chance because I know there's a lot of belief in him. But again, you know, it's hard enough to make it as an underage or it's really hard when you can't even get on the ice, really. You know, so unfortunate for him, unfortunate for us that wanted to see, you know, one of the top draft eligibles in this tournament. but that's the way it goes. And yeah, it sounds like, you know, basically the illness was a factor. It wasn't the only factor. But that's why he's not there.

One thing that's going to be really interesting with this year's roster for not just USA and for all teams is one is the roster is going back from 25 to 23. And two, I had heard from a couple of the federations that they're going to allow, even if you register the full 23 players to your team on Boxing Day, if somebody gets hurt, you're going to be allowed to substitute that player out and puts a new player into your 23. So if there is, you know, say a Chas Lucius is not able to go in the tournament, then it creates maybe a dynamic where a skilled player could come back into the lineup that you cut, whether it is Smith or somebody else.

Ed Luce's status, he went from no contact, no drills when we were there to no contact jersey, and participating in some drills, some line rushes. And he looks like one of those skilled players in their camps that they need him. But his status, as he is currently injured, is something significant to monitor going for over the next few weeks. If Smith isn't there, we think he's the top draft eligible from Team USA, what does that do for the odds of us having a 2023 eligible to watch on this roster. Obviously, Ryan Leonard and Charlie Stramler at the camp.

What do you think, Corey? Either of those guys have a legit shot at making it? I think you'll probably see one of Charlie Stramel, Ryan Leonard, Gavin Burnley on this team. I don't know which one it is. We'll kind of see how the camp plays out and who they pick. Kind of from what I can saw at the camp. It seems like Cutter Goathe, Logan, Cooley, Jimmy Snugg, Ridge is the top line.

Kuli is a late arrival to the camp, so they had Noah Labba skating in that spot. And I think Labba, actually, the fourth round pick by the Rangers, actually look quite impressive to camp for a fourth round pick. I kind of mess up how I was saying that. But he's a 6-2 right-shot center. He skates well, he competes well. He was getting to the net a lot. I think there's a lot of traits there for a guy who can play the bottom six forward. So I think it's going to be cutter, Cooley snug as a line.

They saw Duke Savage and Tyler Boucher has a pretty consistent line there. I noticed that Kenny Conner's Ruegrorty and Jackson Blake was a consistent line. I can see if Lucius is healthy. I could see maybe Conner's coming out of there and him plugging in that they didn't have their top two line centers there for most of the camp. Obviously, makes the lines a little inconsistent. And then I can see Lab. and Connors being two-thirds of a fourth line. And then from that point, you have two up and forward spots, and we'll see where they fall.

I doubt they would bring two draft eligibles there in those kind of roles, but we'll see what they end up deciding. Chris, we've talked on this show past couple weeks about the potential for Team USA to bring a fairly small defense scores height-wise to this event. Curious, does that inform at all how you think they will or you think they should put together this forward core? in terms of maybe the heaviness, the style of the forward core the team USA wants to bring. In other words, if you're small in the back end, do you try to make up for it a little bit by being a little tougher, a little meaner up front?

I think they're going to try to a little bit, but I think that they're going to continue to emphasize speed and pace and those types of things overall. But I know that the way that Rand Peknold, you know, the teams that he has had, there is a physical element to the way that they play. and, you know, you're going to want to have a hard forecheck. You're going to want to have guys that are, that are, you know,

that will play the body and be physical. The problem is, is like even up front, they just don't have a ton of that. And then you look at guys like Charlie Stremel, who would be one of the biggest forwards on the team, you know, kind of being on the bubble. But then there are guys like Lava, like Gochay. You know, Snuggard isn't massive,

but he's got some heaviness to him as well. Same with Rector Magrory. So there's there's a lot of guys that regardless of the size, they have that kind of tenacity and that ability to get on pucks. That's going to be the biggest thing. I want to be an attacking team. So I think the back end being smaller, I think that just says, hey, we need to be fast. We need to be really fast. We need to be hard to contain.

It's going to be on the deed to get the puck up to the forwards quickly. It's going to be on the forward step four check really well, put pressure on the defense with they can't get going the other way. But, you know, I think this is a team that's going to have a lot of flow to it, a lot of, you know, speed. And then, you know, the transition game will become very important for them as well. So, you know, I think that, you know, based on kind of the lines as they're constructed and, you know, I think they have enough physicality in the group. I don't think they'll go heavy on size. They just don't have that many options, really, in the end.

But at the same time, you know, I think that they always emphasize the speed of the team over everything. And that's why we saw guys like Sasha Pass the job not make it. And they wanted to have a pace be a hallmark of this team. Corey, a little conversation we were having as we watched the practice that we went to, where do you think the goals beyond this expected top line of Gautier, Cooley, and Snuggieroot? Who's team USA going to rely on for offense here? I mean, obviously, McGrory is a player who could certainly put the puck in the net. He is going to be one of the younger players still though for Team USA.

and who are you looking at as kind of the go-to scores for this American team beyond that obvious top line? Well, we mentioned him earlier in the show, but with Smith gone, I think Jackson Blake, who was the third round pick by Carolina, I think this is a guy who might actually be asked to play a scoring role on this team, not the biggest or the fastest guy, but a super skilled winger. He competes really well. He looked really good in North Dakota this season. So I can see that guy being asked to play some. significant role. And should he be healthy, they need Chas Lucius to be at the top of his game. They

need that guy to be the guy they saw with the program when he was healthy and going, when he could be that kind of, you know, legit goal scoring threat, a guy who could, you know, be a, you know, drive the play, you know, make high-end skilled plays really consistently do really well in the interior parts of the ice. You know, he's been hurt a lot the last. three years. He's not the fastest guy, too. So, you know, there's, his development is not, you know, maybe gone the best as you probably envisioned over the last two seasons.

But he probably, after Cooley, he might be the most purely skilled player on this team. And so they need him to be healthy and to be going well. And if he's not, it's going to be hard to envision this team, you know, getting past a team Canada. Yeah, I agree with that too. because I mean, I think Blake was a guy that they had high, high expectations for coming into the camp. And now he's, you know, you guys were there. I wasn't.

But, you know, that's what we're seeing is that, you know, he's at least delivering on that so far. But, yeah, but, you know, I think that they also will look, Dylan Duke is a good goal score. I mean, he's not, you know, he's not going to get the minutes of the other guys, but he's a guy that's really good at the net front. He's, he's had a good, a really good season at Michigan this year. So he is a goal scorer in not necessarily the traditional sense of the outside shooter. He's a guy that gets a job done around the net. You know, McGority, who you mentioned, I think they're going to really need him to bring that goal scoring element of his game. He's got a tremendous shot.

He's looked really good at Michigan. You know, you will see him quite a bit. But, you know, I think that they are going to lean very heavily on that top line. They're going to lean, you know, they're going to play. they're going to be the guys out there in the late game situation. They're going to be the guys that are in the power play mix, and they're also going to be, you know, basically just, you know, hey, we need you going.

And the thing is is that a lot of teams are going to know that coming in. They're going to try to shut them down. They're going to be a hard group to shut down. But, you know, I mean, that's it. But, yeah, as Corey said, I mean, Chas Lucius, the reason that I thought, you know, Will Smith was almost a lock for this team is because without Jazz Lucius, you start losing some of that dynamic element in the bottom of your lineup or in the next stage of your lineup after your top line. So that's the thing that we're going to have to see.

And, you know, you can manufacture goals in a variety of ways. And I think the U.S. is going to be expecting their blue line to be a part of the scoring as well. You know, having guys like Luke Hughes, Lane Hudson's got seven goals already this season. You know, those are guys that they're going to want to make sure that are engaged offensively. Right, and that's a great point. And, you know, when I saw them say, we mentioned, you know, the size of the blue line, whether they'll be able to be a good defending blue line. But on the other hand of it, they should have, be getting a lot of offense from their blue line.

And that's going to be really important for Team USA. That's where a big part of the skill in this lineup is. When we saw, you know, say their power play rotations, there were four defensemen being used in their power play rotations. Luke Hughes, Lane Hudson, Sean Barron's, and Ryan up. where you can argue other players like the Chavis Casey could be in that mix or even or even others. There's a lot of skill of scoring ability on that blue line and they're going to need their defensemen to be activating to be getting into the rush to be trying to score goals as well. All right, guys, let's get in out of Team Canada and we're coming off a conversation about Team

USA about where the secondary offense comes from. I don't think we're going to need to have that conversation so much about Team Canada. I think, you know, as always, a very talented group here. And it starts with a couple of players who we expect to go off the board really early in 2003, Connor Bedard and Adam Fantilli, both make this team, both look like based on the lines. Team Canada has been skating at practice like they could play prominent roles. And oh, by the way, you've got Shane Wright, you've got Dylan Genther, you got Brennan

Offman, Logan Stankovin, rounding out what we think could be a rough approximation of Team Canada's top six. There's some offense here. Just a little. I mean, yeah, it's crazy. You know, looking at the lines as they've been kind of constructed, it just, you know, I think there's good balance. There's good size on each line. There's, you know, they have, they have scoring in bunches. You know, I mean, on paper, every single, almost every single year, Canada is always going to have one of the most intriguing and higher scoring forward groups. It's just, it's just the way it is. It's the way they have the deepest player pool to pick from. And that's how it goes. And that's why, you know, when you see different cuts and different things, you're just like,

you have to understand, it is a really, really, really hard team to make. And, you know, looking at the roster and I know, like, I'll be interested to hear Corey as well. I mean, really, they do have four lines with players that can score goals. You know, it's not just, it's just not, not, they don't have to rely completely on the top six. The fact that you can, you know, put out the Dard and Van Tilly on the wings. And then, you know, have some of your more veteran players down the middle with, you know, with Shane Wright, Logan Stancovin, you know, having a Gosey, who is a returning player and, you know, plays that heavier style that still has that ability to score.

I think this is going to be a team that is, you know, maybe they don't set the goals record because they're in the tougher of the two brackets, but at the same time, they're going to be scoring an awful lot. That third line of me is interesting with Gosey between Dean and. Because I'm not sure that is like what you think of like I don't think it's like a high end offensive line there even though you guys know I'm I really like Nathan Goshae as a prospect and Joshua obviously scored a lot in the queue Dean is probably not like a huge score more of like a speed and compete type with like with a little bit of skill so that is interesting third line and you kind of look towards some of the cuts that they make and you and you ask you know could they have brought maybe a little bit more skill for that third line or or they really have it seems when I was talking to the scouts who were at the that can't, they seem to think that Canada was going to emphasize a lot of heaviness and two-way play in that bottom six. And you kind of see that with Dean, with Dathan Goshae, Zach Ossichuk,

Reed Schaefer, Colton Dock, all in those bottom parts of the lineup. Neither of us were there, but again, I talked to quite a few people who were there. And that seems to be the takeaway there. We mentioned Anna Fantilli earlier, and I think Fantilli, particularly in that first U-sport game was the standout of that game. If there was any question at all that he needed to make the team, he answered that in a significant way, being the best player in one of the two games and scoring a highlight real goal

and showing a unique combination of size, skating, and skill that makes him such a unique pro prospect, but also would be a very good player at the junior level. And it doesn't surprise me to see him in the top six. I think he's a guy that could make an impact for this team Canada. always interesting to see which players come up just on the wrong end of this. Chris, as you mentioned, it's a tough team to make. And so there's no shame in not making Team Canada.

But one that jumps out, Corey, is a guy who was on this roster in the summer on the blue line. And that's Carson Lambo's. Usually you will see a returner back in the fold. He only played in one game for Team Canada at the summer event. But why didn't he make this team? So there were some mixed opinions on Lambo's, both during his actual season. season and in the camp, talking to the scouts with the camp,

they just said he had a tough, he had a tough week. You know, his puck movement wasn't really solid and he's like a, you know, a 60-6-1 defenseman. If there's questions on

whether he can be a reliable puck mover, they were going to lean toward the size like Nature and Tyson Heinz, which is what they did. When I've watched him in Winnipeg, I thought he looked really good. I've seen some excellent games where I think he's mobile, physical,

contributing with some skill. And I've talked to some scouts who've watched with him in Winnipeg, who say of late, he's kind of struggled a little bit too. So I think that's the background in which this cut comes from. And even though he Lampos was on the team, he didn't, he wasn't really like on the team team. He was often a healthy scratch. You know, he wasn't really part of the rotation, both when he was on the team in December and in the team in the summer. He didn't really play. So, so, but I, by, yes, usually if you make the team as an 18 year old, you're on the team

in a more prominent role as a 19 year old. So that was interesting. Chris, another one of the guys who doesn't ultimately make this roster, high pick, Zach Bolduk, where do you think he kind of missed the mark on this team? Or what didn't he bring that they were looking for? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, you know, I thought he was a real good candidate for the roster. I mean, he's been scoring, he's been doing everything that he's supposed to be doing as that player. But I think when you have other guys like Van Tilly come in and, you know,

he can bring that element in a much better way. and if you're saying, okay, well, if Old Duke's not going to be part of our top six, is he really, you know, does he fit in that third line situation? Does he fit in that fourth line? And I don't think he does. And I think that's, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, you look at the, you look at the roster as a whole and when players are typically competing for one or two spots against, you know, somebody else.

And, you know, I think, you know, going into the camp, I don't know that it was necessarily a lock that Fantilli was, you know, going to be part of that top six. and he put himself in there with his play. So I think that nudges guys like Zach Bulldoch out. And again, I mean, it's just such a hard team to make. And I don't know if Corey has any additional insight in how his camp went. But, you know, I think that, you know, right now it's just, you know,

you look at the roster and you're like, I can't argue with who's there. You know, it's hard for me to make an argument for anybody that isn't there right now. You know, like it's just because the roster looks right. They obviously went with size and heaviness, as Corey mentioned. And, you know, just going back to Lambos, too. I mean, he would have been, you look at the defense score, it's one, five foot 10, Olin Zellweger, who will play a ton last year.

And then everybody else is six-foot-two. Yeah, every, yeah, and everybody else is six-foot-two or taller. And it's like the complete opposite of USA's blue eye. I think going into the camp, where you see Fantelli slotted in the second line left wing and we see Josh Waslod in the third line right wing. I think those were the most competitive spots, even though I think Joshua and Fantilli had the inside edge. Fantili just because he was pure talent.

And Wa is a returning member. His coach is on the staff. He's played very well in the queue. But I think you were kind of seeing them jostle with Zach Bullduke, with Jordan Dumay in Halifax, with Ryan Green at BU. I think those were kind of the spots that were up for grabs a little bit. And both Fantili and Wao did their job in the camp. Waugh, you know, got his goals.

People I talked to there didn't say he was really driving at even strength, but that's what he is. He's a goal score. He's guys going to help your power play, and they know what they have in a player. Bull Duke, from what I heard, again, people, you know, they point to the skating, they point to the skill. Those are obvious attributes is why he went 17th overall. I think the thing with Bull Duke is the scouts who both from seeing him at the camp and knowing him will point that just his effort can be a little inconsistent at times and that, you know,

When you're trying to make that team, I heard that Jordan Dume, I'll play a bit. I can't, to be quite honest. I think he was closer to making that team than Bull Duke was. I also think even him, I think Ryan Green might have been closer to making that team than Bull Duke was. I think Ryan Green really, he scored two of Canada's three goals in that last U-Sports game. And we talked about this guy as a riser in the previous episode. I don't know if he was actually ever going to be on this team. But I think he did everything he could to be.

forced them to really think about putting him on this team. I mean, he came in as an offensive guy and he scored. And I don't know what more he really could have done other than somebody gets hurt or somebody really underwhelms you. Like maybe Fantilla just comes in and just doesn't do what you think he's going to do, essentially. But I think those were kind of the dynamics that led to the Bulldoog cut. And I know people were talking about Jordan Dumei getting cut.

You know, guys tearing up the QMJHL right now over over. over two points per game. Although I think you're kind of seeing maybe a trend here that there might be something in the water in the queue right now where you look at, say, the numbers Bull Duke has,

you look at the numbers Dumay has, it may not always be 100% predictive of how it's going to go outside of the queue. The queue right now is kind of a unique scoring environment and I would be to disease and research into something like that where it doesn't feel like those leagues,

numbers are presented in the NHL actually feel about the players. It's kind of a tangent. I just went on there, but that's kind of the conning to the Bull 2 cut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the names that did jump out at me that did make it that I probably wasn't as familiar with as I should have been,

wasn't on my radar for this team necessarily, but he ultimately makes it, is Caden Bankier, the Wilde's 2021 third round pick. Where did he kind of come from to make this run at this team and ultimately make the team, Corey? Yeah, so he was kind of a guy that rose during his training, He was, I think, roughly a point-per-game guy on a good Camloops team, good size forward, good skill, good hockey sense. Skating was never that big a selling point.

But again, just kind of a guy who just steadily wrote, didn't have the greatest year after his draft season, but right now he's been off to a really, last few months, been off to a really strong start to the season, scoring a lot of goals, brings the size, brings some skill. Maybe not this amazing two-way player, but good enough. and that's why he's slided and currently has a fourth line center. Definitely seems like a guy whose stock is maybe not skyrocketing, but is on a slight upward trajectory. And he was a guy who was on the bubble, and he scored in both of the games, the U-sports games, scoring goals, a goal at an assist, I believe, in the first game,

and he was a primary assist on the two Ryan Green goals in the second game. So he was a guy who probably wasn't in the initial projected 12, but then he kind of force his way in there with a good camp. One fan base who I think is probably going to want to pay quite close attention to this Canadian team, Chris, is the Chicago Blackhawks fan base. And in particular, I think you can pretty much just watch any given shift from the Canadian blue line. And the Blackhawks are going to have a prospect worth watching there. Ethan Del Mastro makes the team.

Nolan Allen makes the team. Kevin Korninski makes a team. We just read off the potential left side for Team Canada. Yeah, I mean, I think that the Blackhawks are certainly really excited that that's how that shook out. I mean, it's not a huge surprise either. You know, I think that a lot of these, Del Mastro in particular, has just really, his game, I think, is taken off in a way that, you know, certainly even surprised me. You know, I think that he's been, he can do so many different things for you. And, I mean, just, you know, having sides, having the ability to defend.

And then, you know, being able to produce the points as well, which he's been close to a point per game this season, you know, that's certainly, he's taking his game to, to another level. Meanwhile, you get a guy like Nolan Allen, he's going to be that heavier, you know, more physical presence on the back end. He doesn't necessarily have the points, but clearly Canada wanted to have that element on their team. They wanted to have a guy that, you know,

that was going to be difficult to play against, give you a little extra thoughts in the corners. He's going to be tough to forecheck against just because he's such a big guy. And he's got that strength element to him as well. And then Kortinski, you know, being the number one prospect pretty much for that, for that franchise at the moment, you know, he's done everything he had to do, which was be a high-end scorer, a guy that can move pucks extremely well that's going to make play, it can be, you know, potentially be on the power play.

It's tough to get on the power play with this team. But, you know, I think he's a real solid puck mover. And, you know, as Corey mentioned, even, you know, up front, you had Ryan Greed nearly make it. You know, you've had Colton Dock, you know, playing really well and getting, you know, earning his spot on this team. So, you know, it's dark times for the Blackhawks at the NHL level right now. But these are kind of the fruits of the rebuilding process kind of on display. You know, all these guys still have a ways to go before they can be. you know,

NHL players, but, you know, these are those kind of like benchmark events where you say, okay, well,

now we're seeing kind of some progress. We're seeing where these guys go. And to have those guys have an opportunity, as big of an opportunity as they do with Team Canada, you know,

that says quite a bit about where they're at presently. And hopefully, you know, if you're a Blackhawks fan, it hopefully tells you a little bit about where they're going. But I think,

yeah, that, you know, seeing all three of those guys make the blue line, not real, not really surprising. We'll see the order

that they're in, you know, Alan has been playing in the top four, which, you know, he's not a big-time puck mover. He's more of the physical guy. So, yeah, so we will have to wait and see. I think it's going to be very, very fascinating to see how that all shakes out in terms of order and usage. But, yeah, that blue line is definitely, you know, the red, white and black are those guys should be used to wearing that by the time they get to Chicago. Well, it was interesting talking to the scoucher at the camera.

They said they said Kortensky kind of struggled a little bit there. or at least wasn't plenty of the top of his game. So that felt like more of a deference to the tool kid in and what he had done in, you know, this year in junior hockey where he's been arguably one of the best defensemen in the CHL this season. Again, you know, 6-2 guy with that kind of skating and skill. And I think you look at the way they're making that blue line. It seems like they're putting an offensive guy with a defensive guy

on each of the three pairs, Delmastrow, with Zelweger, Alan with Brandt Clark, and now Kornensky with either Jack Maycher or Tyson-Hines. You mentioned Colton Dock, an eye. I could see that he's going to be the 13-4 to start, but I think he has enough skill in his game to go with the size and the skating. Where if there's somebody who's not going in the top nine, maybe he's Jack Dean, maybe it's Josh Watt, maybe it's Fentilly, maybe it's somebody else.

You know, he's a guy I could see plug up higher in the lineup if that's how things break down during the tournament. All right, before we get to the mailbag, I wanted to get a quick thought from you both on the goaltending situation. We touched on a little bit last episode. In the end, it is Benjamin Gidreau and Thomas Mill. for Team Canada. Any surprises here, Corey?

Is this about what you expected? It's about what I expected, and they're going to need to score a lot of goals. He's not wrong. I mean, you know, Millick has had a good season, but I mean, he's in a tandem situation in Seattle,

and then you've got Gidreau who's not having a good season. He did have, you know, he was the goalie for the under 18 world championship. And very talented. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He has the tools. Like, he has the tools.

But, you know, I think that if Canada, you know, we've talked about Canada's goaltending in the past and being an issue. And that kind of continues, I think that they probably have enough to not worry about it a ton. But at the same time, you know, these games can go a certain way if you don't get the saves. So, yeah, but yeah, not a real surprise to see who ended up making the final roster. But again, you know, you didn't necessarily have the strongest group. to pick from. It is interesting. This World Junior tournament, it doesn't feel like there is that one obvious goalie who

could carry the load for their team on a long run. Maybe that makes it a little easier for Canada. And certainly also, you could say the same thing about the U.S. to survive a year where they don't have that, you know, top end prospect in the crease. Oh, yeah. I mean, neither Canada or USA or Sweden or even Finland, for that matter, are walking in there with a goalie they feel super confident about right now. So it'll be really interesting to see which one of these guys ultimately does step up and becomes an impactful goalie in the tournament.

Even if we don't think they have these guys who, whether due to the size or just lack of athletics, we think are afraid to a prospect, somebody will be a really good junior goalie in this tournament. All right, gentlemen, let's get into the mailbag. Some fun questions today, including a really good one to start off with from Nabil Raymond, which says a major reason why many don't have Andrew Crystal higher in the rankings, even with his tour at Western. hockey league scoring pace is skating? Is it that poor that it could keep them out of the top 15, even having one of the best WHL draft seasons in recent memory? Right before we started recording, we were looking at this and we were thinking, can it really be one of the best draft seasons in recent memory given Connor Bedard as having a better one right now? But honestly, yes, it still is one of the better draft eligible seasons recent memory production-wise in recent years.

So, Corey, I guess we'll start with you here. Is Crystal skating really going to keep him out of of the territory that usually comes with a season like that? I think it could. It's the choppy skating kind of combined with the 5-9, 5-10 frame and being a winger. Now, I have talked to people in the league who are believers in this guy who just see a high-end skill, high-end offensive sense, all the scoring ability, a guy who can score both on from the perimeter and the interior, and think he could be a top 20, top 15 candidate. But I have also talked to several people on the league who wouldn't.

not take him in the first round who just are just too scared off. They think, you know, this is the next, you know, you can go through a long list of guys who were tiny and wonky skaters and just never made it. You know, in that league, you know, you kind of go back to the media Jordan Wheel. You go back to Brennan Cozhen, you go back to a couple other candidates like that. And they just kind of think that's the next one that kind of looks like that. I'm kind of in the middle. I think he's a very good player.

I think this is a guy who could be like a middle six winger. in the league, would I be shocked if he just, you know, was it in and out of line up type, plays 100 games, 150 games, and just doesn't have a long career, I wouldn't be shocked by that, because it's like, you know, the skating kind of reminds me of, you know, in recent drafts, you know, Bobby Brink a little bit, Francesco Penelie a little bit, guys who both ended up going in the second round, even though he's producing, I would say, more offense, even than Brink did at the same age. So that's why I think maybe he does end up sneaking into the,

first. But I would, my bet now is he does not go top 15, even though I do know there's a good argument he could, and I know people in the league who would support him going in that range. Yeah, and just to further the point on the production, you look at draft eligible skaters in the WHL over the last, you know, 20 plus years. It's Connor Bedard with 2.29 points per game. season and then Crystal with 1.89 and then the next guys are like Sam Reinhart,

but then there's a really good example at number four of a guy that kind of stayed between and that's Nick Patam, who in his draft eligible season was produced at a fairly similar rate, you know, and and yeah. So, I mean, like, it just kind of goes to show you that the points are absolutely important. They help you make a determination on a player, but at the same time, you can't base it all on that because you do have to, you know, the projection is going to end up coming more from the skill and from the, what, you know, the different elements. And as Corey mentioned, the size, it's the size plus the skating more than it is the, you know,

just the skating. You know, I think that that's the other thing. It's harder, it's harder to cover that up when you don't have some other elements like, you know, really good puck protection, all these different things, you know, strength. You know, can you be more physical? Like those types of things. it's just harder to make. So I still think he's a first round pick.

You know, he'll be a first round pick for me. I assume, you know, for most of the season, but I completely get the argument that he may not be. Anyway, you know, when you're taking a 5-9, 5-10 winger in the first round, you have to be, especially if he's not a great skater, you have to be super confident in any offensive ability. And you've got to believe this one is the guy that's going to be the exception to the rule. And we'll see whether that plays out or not.

I think when John Dahlin was coming into the league after what he was doing in the SHL, sorry, in the Ausfanskin, I thought, this guy's a wonky skater, aren't the biggest guy, but I thought, oh, this will be the, this would be kind of the guy. Even though he's kind of a weird-looking skater, he just scores so much versus men, so much offense is going to work, and then he's out of the league in the year. Yeah. Just to kind of anticipate what the rebuttal is going to be here. There's going to be people who say, you know, Braden Point wasn't thought to be that good

of a skater in his draft. But he is now. he is now and the question is do you want to bet on being able to replicate that kind of transformation that the Tampa was able to pull at Braden point I suspect that for most teams the answer is going to be maybe not that early yeah I hate that argument like I hear it from not just not because you said that max I hear it often like like I in my experience 95% of the guys were bad skaters when they're 17 years old are bad skaters when they're 25 years old I mean we've heard it about how many guys we've had it asked on the

this show about how many guys in just the time we've been recording it already in like the last like you know two three drafts alone we've had five next brayden points and i don't know that any of them made that kind of leap yet is that i mean fair oh yeah yeah i mean um you're gonna even have in this draft too with like the small center stuff like you're gonna have we're gonna have we're about whether i think i was having a debate with a guy who's a western league scout i was asking you know how many i think badard and yager are going to to be NHL centers. And he said, yes, they're top two on NHL centers.

And I'm like, well, there's like four guys in the league who are 511 centers are smaller. And you're telling me we're going to get two from this draft year. And like, you know, that's just odds are that's not going to happen. Just like odds are your favorite small guy is not the next brain point. All right. Nam to nom with another good one. But another small ish, although not.

as small centers. Compare and contrast Logan Cooley with Will Smith. How are they similar? How are they different? What do you see in each of their respective futures? Finally, rank them. Wow. Yeah, that's a good one.

I think that for me, you know, the biggest thing, like Cooley's got a, you know, kind of an explosive skating ability. He's got, you know, he's got the ability to separate. There's some tenacity in its game. I think he's a little bit more aggressive off the puck. at this point and was last year too. But, you know, high, high-end skill. The thing for me with Will Smith is I just think he's got a tremendously dynamic elements.

You know, he is a kind of a lanky center where, you know, he's still kind of growing into his body a little bit. He's got the size factor over Cooley. You know, and I think for Will too, like it's just, there are questions about him whether or not he's going to be a center. I think he's a center. I think Corey thinks he's a center too. But I know that there's scouts out there that are having that debate. Is he a winger? Is he a center? You know, he's about six foot, you know, and he's a little bit on the lighter side at the moment.

But that's something that will probably change over time. You know, I think that if I were to rank him, I would still have Cooley ahead of Smith at this point. But I think that Will has closed the gap. You look at the numbers that he's put up the NTP this year. You know, he's had one of the better scoring seasons. He's out producing what Cooley did in his draft eligible season. So it's reasonable to think that there's, you know, that there's something there with him that he can be a top-tier player in this draft class.

But I still would, I would still go with Cooley. I had Cooley first in last year's draft. you know, I still feel very strongly about the player. I think offensively, in terms of the pure skill IQ, I think their scoring ability, I think they're pretty similar in terms of their pure skill. There's overall offensive skill. I think Cooley's a little bit better of a skater,

and I think he's a little bit more competitive, but there is a little bit of a size differential there. Cooley's closer to 5.10. Smith's closer to 6'0. I think what Smith, the question is, like, yeah, part of this goes to the center versus wing is I've heard some people question whether this the competes high end enough. I personally have liked it when I've watched him, but I've heard that from enough people

to where I think it's like at least an open question, whether he can be a center in the NHL, if he can be like a really two-way type of guy. I think he is, and I'm not really concerned about that. In terms of who's better, I think it's a coin flip right now, to be quite honest. And I think part of that is cool, part of that I don't think Kooley's had the biggest first half to where I think at the start of the year I would have edged Kooley. but I think it's been, and I love both players. I think, you know, Smith could be the top five pick candidate for me.

You know, I think, I think it's a coin flip right now, quite honest. Jack Manning wants to know about some of the undrafted college players this year. He says, are Ryan McAllister, T.J. Hughes and Colin Graff, as legit as their NCAA numbers would suggest Chris. Yeah, you know, I think Ryan McAllister and T.J. Hughes, they were teammates for the Brooks that's last year in the AJHL, and they had ridiculous numbers, just absolutely ridiculous numbers. Like McAllister's scoring was one of the best seasons in that league's history, and that includes like going back to the 1980s. And the thing about him is he's a really smart player. He understands how he needs to play. He's scoring, you know, he's leading the NCAA in scoring right now as a freshman.

He was a 20-year-old freshman, so it's not like it's necessarily the, you know, like he's, he's not a true freshman where like some of these other guys. I just recently saw T.J. Hughes. I think that he's absolutely kind of on that track to be a to be a free agent signing. I think both of them are. On graph, I have, I've seen less, but it, you know, like the numbers are good. I don't necessarily, like, from what I have seen, I haven't necessarily seen like a guy that jumps out at you as a guy that will be lining up to sign. And that's actually true of all these guys.

I don't think there's going to be like long lines to sign these players, but it's going to, they will get contracts. And I think that McAllister in particular now has years to, and Hughes have these years to kind of prove what they're doing. Like, T.J. Hughes is centering the second line for, for Michigan this year. And he is dry, he can be a play driver. And then you've also got McAllister, who is just dictating everything offensively for his team. Western Michigan as a whole is scoring at a pretty high level. They can't stop goals at the moment. that's their issue at this point. They score a lot, but they're just not stopping a lot. So, but I do think that McAllister and Hughes, given the track record in junior,

whenever you look at these college free agents, a lot of them do have that track record that predates their college time. It's not like they just kind of came out of nowhere. It's just that they needed to prove it at a higher level, and those guys are doing it at a higher level. So I would say that, you know, you're going to see like graph, I think all, all three of them potentially could sign contracts. I feel a lot more confidently about T.J. Hughes and certainly Ryan McAllister as well.

And if you can leave the nation in scoring this early, you're going to get a lot of looks and a lot of time. Corey, Patrick McConnell wants to know who is the more valuable player on the Ottawa Senators? Tim Stutzler or Jake Sanderson. Can you see them becoming star 1C and 1D? I mean, I can see yes to both of those questions. I'm not saying they are going to, but I think both have, you know, realistic past, get there. For me, between the two of them, I would lean towards Stootsla, but it's close, I would say.

I think they're both impactful players, both excellent skaters, both have offense. Stozo's offense being on another level, both being highly competitive players. I just think Stutzel, I just think, well, Sanders ends up an amazing skater. I think Stutzel skating is even more dynamic and to go at the high-end offense. it's a unique combination of assets that he has. And that would be the way I would lean, but it's really close. Other than one, a couple other teams, not a whole lot of organizations could say they have those kind of impactful young players more than one in any ways.

They come from the same draft class. I mean, Chris, would I be insane to say that in a redraft, they could both go in the top three? They could go top two. No, not. Yeah, I mean, they could be the top two picks. Like, honestly, yeah, it's, it's, it's, and yeah, I mean, I think that you look at what Jake Sanderson's already done as a rookie and I mean, the sky is a limit for him. I mean, he's just a really impressive player. And, yeah, I mean, I actually might go the like Lean Sanderson in terms of the more

impactful he's going to play more minutes. He's going to be on, you know, that your PK or played power play already, you know, like there, so he's going to impact the game in a variety of ways, but at the same time when you have somebody as a dynamic and as skilled as Tim Stutzla, he can change the game for you on a shift by shift basis a little differently. But I think it's good. If that's the debate that we're having, what a great debate to have if you're an Ottawa Senators fan because in the end you got both of them. So who cares who's more valuable?

You got both of them. So it's amazing to see where they're at and how that draft is going to set them up long term. Similar debate. What do you do, Cousins or Power? Power. I would go Power, too. It's close for me, though. I might lean cousins based on the year he's having right now, but it's really close.

He's having a great year. He's definitely having a great year. No question. Corey, Mike wants to know, are there any undrafted 19-year-olds having a breakout season? We're looking for the next guy who's going to maybe come off the radar here as someone who's not the under-18 class and then, you know, we pick in the top couple rounds. Probably the one guy in the CHL that comes to mind

would be like a Spencer Sova Who's having like a pretty productive year with Eerie A lot of goals, a lot of offense, good skater Didn't went on drafted last year My Out Surprise went on drafted I think he'll get drafted This season I think Chris would probably know the USHL guys

Where you see more of that Tend to happen because the guys have the college runway Of four years Yeah yeah I think that that's There are some teams that have kind of talked about making that part of their late round strategy as well. And, you know, they still go off their list, but they're looking at those guys.

They're listing some of these guys that are, you know, second, third year eligible players in that range. And particularly the guys that are on the college track, because they figure, hey, maybe we'll, we'd have to sign him as a free agent down the road. But a couple of guys in the USHL to keep an eye on. Cole Canoble, not a big guy, but he's having a big scoring season for Fargo.

You know, he's Mike Canoeval's son. He's at the NHL bloodlines. You know, I thought that he was potentially going to be a late round pick last year didn't happen. but I think he's going to have an opportunity to go this year just with the season that he's having. He's currently at the World Junior A Challenge. And another guy that got off to a really hot start, but their team is struggling, so it's harder to say. But Sam Harris, he's a guy that I think a lot of scouts have keyed in on just with the hot start that he had for Sioux Falls.

He's tailed off a little bit. But those are the kind of players that I think a lot of teams are looking at at the president. And, you know, you put up big numbers, you continue to have a track record. that gives you another year of data for these players. And so you can make a more educated decision on them. And I think that those are two guys that potentially have a chance to get drafted now. Do you think Michael Emerson from the Steele could be picked? Yeah, yeah, that's another one.

That's another one, yeah. Because, I mean, like the Steele, they're just dominating everybody, offensively at least. You know, they're not necessarily winning as frequently as they had in the past. But that whole group there is, I mean, they've got a lot of players. that are, you know, didn't get drafted or are draft eligible. And, yeah, I think I'm a certain this is one of those guys for sure. Are we talking kind of rounds two to four, three to five as we're talking about these

names? Probably later. Probably later. And I think that a lot of, yeah, I mean, I think most it's, it's, you know, you get sometimes you'll get like a Brett Leeson or somebody like that that kind of pops into the, the second, you know, second year eligible that is the high second round pick. But it doesn't happen a ton. So, yeah, so I would say most of the guys that we're talking about,

about we're talking late to mid rounds or mid to late rounds yeah okay Chris wants to know about William Wallander does he have top four upside he's looking for good news or tough love with with Dylan Larkin injured right now for the Red Wings Corey I think the answer is yes and I've been critical of this player for the last year to not critical but me I wasn't like I think it's got tough four I think my writing max probably will call it probably more detail I probably I say he's like a third pair guy with like a chance to be better. But I think now you're trying to kind of see that better. I think this is a guy who's excellent in the SHL, one of the best players on Rollo,

even though Rogel's struggling a little bit this season. Again, big mobile offense, then showing skill, showing playmaking ability this season. I don't think this is a guy who's ever going to be high-end. But anything in the NHL, I don't think he's a high-end offensive player. I don't think he's even a high-end defender, even though he has that size of mobility. You know, his physicality is just okay. but there's a lot here that makes you excited about his pro-projection, and I think this is a guy that is trending towards being a second pair of offense.

And frankly, I think they've got two guys this year who are playing at that level. I think you really like the way Wollander is playing. I think he got really like the way Shai Boyan is playing in Denver right now. I think those are, you know, there's a couple of guys, you know, we've mentioned major before on this podcast. There's a couple of Detroit prospects who are having, you know, pretty good seasons, which, you know, I know when you've been coming the big team that Raymond and Sider haven't been having like the biggest seasons right now.

But there, you know, there's some guys coming there that, you know, those guys are going to turn around and there's some good young players coming too. So I think you're still optimistic about the stay of the Red Wings young players right now. That's going to be one of the first times, Chris, that when I've offered Corey a chance to dole out tough love, he instead chose to be the comforting hand on the back of the fan. I'll do it. I don't think he's the top four. There you go.

there. No, yeah, I mean, no, I think Corey, Corey hit it. I mean, this is definitely a player that's trending up, no question. I think the big thing for Wallinger, though, if he's going to play in the NHL, he's got to get tougher. He just does. I mean, that was the knock on him when he was with the Swedish team. They felt like they couldn't really rely on him in some of those harder situations. And now this year, with a bigger opportunity in Rogla, he's showing a little bit more of that. But I think as he gets stronger and maybe more confident in himself, he might get there. But he might get there. But he's, just being being tougher to play against defensively, being harder on pucks, and just being, you know, having that work ethic on top of, you know, the skill that he clearly has had the whole time. Those are the things that he needs to work on. It took Corey's point. I mean, there has been an evolution already here. Like, it's not just that Corey was down on.

He was left off of that World Junior team last year until it had to get rescheduled for the summer. So there has been an evolution in his game. It's not just an evolution of the evaluation. Correct. Correct. All right. Next one is from Jonathan P.

We'll go to you here, Chris. Do you see Luke Hughes getting a cup of coffee at the end of the season for the Devils? Is he a full-time NHL or next season or is he going to need some AHL seasoning first? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I mean, I think that he would, you know, in most situations, but you also have to look at like, you know, will the devils have a spot for him when the time comes?

Because, you know, obviously they've had such a tremendous season. and you know, you don't want to kind of mess with that, a good thing. But it's always good to have another body. And I think that to come out, once this collegiate season is over, you know, and to have a chance to play NHL games would be hugely valuable. It was hugely valuable for Quinn, who ended up, you know, taking that and running with it. And even if he's not, you know, even if Luke isn't going to be part of your plans in the playoffs and things like that, having them around the team, having them, you know, in the mix, you know, we did see, obviously,

Kail McCar come in and make a pretty substantial impact for Colorado right after his season. I don't think that Luke is necessarily at that same level as Kail was at the end of his year. Almost a full year younger too, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a huge thing.

And then, you know, I think Luke still needs to work on some puck management things. He still needs to, you know, the intensity can wane every now and again. But I think that he's still on track. Like, you know, he's going to play a huge role at this world junior keep an eye on that, see how big of an impact is able to make there.

He's played, you know, the numbers, even though the numbers have been slower this year at Michigan, I mean, he's impacted every game I've watched him play in a positive way typically. So, you know, I think that he should at least get that, like, you know, that look as long as, you know, without disrupting what the devils are doing at that stage of the season. As for next season, you know, I think that, you know, with another year of building strength another offseason of time to prepare. I think that he'll be on the roster. Yeah, the kind of the same thing.

I think he's 50-50 in the playoffs, and I would guess he's a full-time guy next year. Yeah. All right. And then we're going to close with one from Ryan P. who wants to know why most media members seem to assume Ryan Johnson and Eric Portillo won't sign with the Sabres. It said I understand the right to choose your team in free agency,

but why isn't that team Buffalo? I've heard neither say they won't sign with. the Sabres, but it seems like a foregone conclusion they'll both read from what I've read, especially Portillo. Corey, do you want to volunteer to start this one off? Well, I've got ready to say, you know, I hear rumors all the time about these things. And sometimes I report these rumors, sometimes I don't, sometimes I report these rumors and end up being false.

And the player ends up signing, sometimes it's just the agent's manipulating the media to get that stuff out and you try to make sure you don't fall into that trap a little bit. And sometimes they actually do believe they're going to leave. And they just change their mind at the last second, whatever they offered them in NHL time. They weren't offering that before. It burns your up to contract. These discussions can be a little convoluted sometimes in that regard. I'm not commenting on what I've heard with Johnson and Portillo because I probably will

as we get closer to the, you know, further into the winter. When I do the college free agency piece, I probably will start do a little bit more digging and try to be confident about that. But that's kind of the sense I've gotten, you know, and we'll see. I know Portillo and Johnson can both walk at the end of the year. Same thing on I think there's a little bit of monitoring of where Jackson Lacombe is going to be doing on Minnesota 2, Johnson's teammate. But we'll see. I mean, if I was in their position, Buffalo needs a goalie, but Buffalo also has a role.

a young defenseman on their team too. So that would probably be the, the factors I would be balancing. Especially the left side. I mean, it's power deli and Samuel said. If I'm Ryan Johnson, it's tough to see a path. I think that's right. That's, and that's why the assumption, that's why there's such an assumption. There's not a spot for it. Like, and I, I'll do respect to Eric Portillo, he's not better than Devin Levi. You know, like, I mean, you know, like, and that's, so you're, you're in this, you're in this, you know, you're in a system where the opportunity may not exist. And that's typically why players go. It's not because they don't.

It's certainly not because they don't like the Sabres. And that's partly why Devin Levi is now a Buffalo Sabre because there was no path for him in Florida. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, and that's the thing where, you know, you have to at least consider, you know, certainly you want to sign those guys. You want to have a deep goaltending pool.

You want to have options. You want to have, you know, but again, like, yeah, for Ryan Johnson, who was a first round pick, you know, there's, there is compensation. if he doesn't sign. You know, so that that's helpful as well. But at the same time, yeah, I mean, I just think for both of those players, it's not because they don't like Buffalo.

It's because there might not be a path forward for either of them there. So I would fully expect both of them to explore their option. It doesn't mean that they won't sign with Buffalo, but I would fully expect them to see what else is out there. And, you know, that's probably what they, you know, if I were in their position, I probably would be doing the same thing. I know, I don't say that's the reason. I have no idea what the reason would be for sport on something.

Four, or not signing with a Buffalo with your Portillo. But I can't imagine Devin Levi's the reason. He hasn't played one in the HL game yet. Like, he's a, you know, he's a kind of really good,

he's a really good college goalie, but he hasn't proven you as a pro. Like, I don't think that's a good reason. It's a great reason. I don't think it's a good reason. Yeah, well,

I mean, if you're, if there is a, if there is a less jammed goalie pool, then. Yeah, because we're not, UPL is also in that goalie pool. Oh, yeah, come on, come on.

He hasn't been good as a pro, though. Like, if he was any good, they actually haven't been in the line-up every night reliably. They need goal for him in Buffalo right now. All right, we'll see. We'll see. But it's like, but you're also, yeah, but you're also making the assumption that, like,

airport Tillo is like, like, no. I mean, I don't think he's a great prospect, to be honest with you. No, he's fighting it a little bit this year, right? Yeah. He's a big guy. have some good athletic tools, but he's kind of looked not.

His stock was at really high point at going into the summer last year. And I wonder now if the interest will be as significant if he was on the market right now. Yeah, there are a lot of scouts watching them just to see. But yeah, but I mean, like, he'll, he has tools. Like, he's got all, he's got plenty of tools. He's got size. He's got, no, he's got upside. There's a rawness through him.

But, yeah, I mean, I think you could have had a reasonable debate the time last year, whether Levi or Portillo was a better pro prospect. And I think. I don't think so. I think you could have. I still don't think so. I lean Levi. I think Levi is, and I had it that way in my Buffalo rankings in the summer, mind you.

So don't get, don't get too harsh on me there, Christopher. But I think there's been a separation now after the first half for the little bit. All right, good stuff today, gentlemen, and to our listeners, thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series. And follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the Aflodicocci. show. You can catch more of Chris over at Flohockey and his podcast, Talking Hockey Sense. Right now, you can also get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.

We'll talk to you soon.