The Athletic Hockey Show - Vegas Golden Knights goaltender Robin Lehner joins the show, Connor McDavid calls out officiating, Stanley Cup prop bets, and more

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

Ian Mendes gets the full Granger treatment as Jesse Granger spends the episode as a guest co-host. They discuss Connor McDavid's comments calling about the officiating in the league, and if it's possible for him to keep up his scoring pace of last year's shortened season. Also, the Manning brothers made their Monday Night Football debut, and the duo wonder who in the hockey world could be a great fit for a similar NHL broadcast.Then, Vegas Golden Knights goaltender Robin Lehner joins the show to discuss the departure of Marc-Andre Fleury, scrolling Twitter, his comments about being underpaid and much more. Then to wrap up in "Granger Things", Ian and Jesse talk about some fun Stanley Cup prop bets.Have a question for the show? You can always email us your questions at [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on an annual subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It's another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Ian Mendez with you, as always, in the host seat for a Thursday episode of the podcast. But this week, Sean McIndoo, down goes brown, is off on vacation. So we've got a full show with Jesse Granger as our co-host. And ahead in this podcast,

we're looking forward to a conversation with the always insightful Robin Lennar. Plus, we'll talk about Connor McDavid's comments this week about officiating in the NHL. We'll toss around some ideas. is for ESPN, TNT, maybe, you know, Sportsnet, if they ever decide to do something like the Manning Brothers on Monday Night Football for an NHL broadcast, who would make the best ex-hockey players in that role?

So we'll have some fun with that, and we'll also have some fun with a couple of prop bets for the upcoming season because we like to have Granger Things. But guess what, boys and girls? It's like Granger Things is here for the whole show. And we bring them in. He covers the Vegas Golden Knights. he always joins the podcast on Thursdays for Granger Things. It's Jesse Granger. And I got to ask you,

you know, we called your segment Granger Things. And I never even asked you, did Jesse Granger watch Stranger watch Stranger things? Yeah, I watched the first season when it first came out. And then I just, I don't, I didn't, I wouldn't say I lost interest. It wasn't a bad show. I just kind of forgot about it. So I haven't watched, I don't even know how many seasons they've gone since then. So I do, I am aware of Stranger Things. I saw the first season. I know what it is, but I'm not like super up on it. Wow. Okay. See, now I feel bad. I can't be making jokes about Dustin and 11 and all these little subtle jokes I could be making in Granger Things. I'll have to take a pass. But you know what? And I think it's important to like for our listeners to kind of sometimes to get to know the hosts, right,

a little bit. And we kind of like, because they only know us as these beat writers who cover the game. So as I'm looking at Jesse Granger's Twitter profile, I notice your profile pick is. is of you playing goalie. Yes. You got a goalie mascot. So, like, are you straight up a goalie right now? Or have you always been a goalie? Yeah, I have.

Yeah, I grew up in Colorado playing just like roller hockey at first and then kind of graduate, or street hockey, actually, at first. And then, and then graduated roller and ice. But I've mostly played roller hockey for most of my life. And I still do now. I play men's league three nights a week, four nights a week when I can during the season, not as much, obviously. But those pictures were from a tournament in California.

I get to travel and do some big tournaments every once in a while. Obviously, not at a high level, but I am a goalie at heart, and I do love watching the goalies in the NHL, too. Okay, so who is Jesse Granger's, like, who is your favorite goalie as a kid? Like, who was your guy? So I actually got to write a story about this on the athletic when they let us, it was when the pandemic kind of had us shut down, and we all wrote like our favorite athlete growing up. And it's kind of a strange story.

So I grew up in Colorado, and you'd think it'd be Patrick Waugh, because when I was a kid, that was the era of the, the, Avs winning all those. And I was an Aves fan as a kid, but actually Dominic Hachik was my favorite goalie. And the reason is when I first started playing goalie, obviously my parents aren't just going to buy me all this expensive gear. So I was like kind of piecing together my street hockey goalie gear like at Goodwill piece by piece. And I was using a mask, just like a Cooper mask,

like a normal forward mask would wear because I couldn't find a real goalie mask. And then one night I saw this goalie on TV and I'm like, that guy's got the same crappy mask that I. do. And he's in the NHL. So he's my favorite. And I didn't even know he was good. I was just like, that guy wears the same mask as me. So he's my favorite. And obviously, he's the greatest goalie to ever live. So not a bad guy to pick. Dominicosha was my guy. Okay. But were you flexible? And even now, like, look, I'm, I'm 44 now. The flexibility is gone for me. You're younger than me. Are you still able to like, and even in your, like, are you a flexible goalie? I mean, all

goalies have to be flexible, but are you, are you like Gumby? I'm definitely not like the most flexible goalie. I'm, I'm, I'm six three, two 30, 240. I'm not, I'm not a little slinky guy. I'm more of a big positional goalie, like the guy we're talking to later today. Yeah. But, but I'm a lot more flex, I'm 31. I'm a lot more flexible right now than I would be if I hadn't played goalie for most of my life. So, so I'm definitely more flexible than, than I would be if I hadn't been doing this. Okay. Let me tell you a quick Dominic Hachick story that you'll appreciate because Dom spent one season in Ottawa, 2005, 2006. He spent one year with the Ottawa Senators, okay? And back of the day, Jesse, I used to do, I used to work in television.

And every week, I did a show on SportsNet and the local Rogers television channel here in Ottawa. It was like a weekly magazine show about the Ottawa Senators, okay? And we would film inside the dressing room. So after practice, you know, let's say the senators practice at 10 a.m. or 11. am, they would finish practice and then I would essentially get the locker room to myself and I would have a, a cameraman come in and we would shoot, you know, the beginning and the ending of the show.

Well, I'll never forget this. One day, I go in and, but Dominic Hachick's not done yet. Okay. So Hachik is at his stall and he's like, go ahead. I'm like, what do you mean? Go ahead. He's like, yeah, go ahead. And, but the weirdest thing, Jesse, is he was peeling.

and he was eating an orange. And he was just peeling this orange very slowly, very methodically, and watching me. And I'm like, this is like a dream. Like, you know when you have weird dreams? And you're like, hey, man, what did you dream about last night? Like, I had a dream. I was doing something.

And Dominic Hachuk was watching me while peeling an orange. This happened. And it was just, he was such a weird, quirky, like, you know, just a weird guy. And I know all of, but here's what's weird about, not weird. But with you, you don't strike. me as that quirky, quirky goalie. Yeah, maybe it's because you haven't been around me at the rink. Just doing the podcast is a little different.

If you came around the rink, you'd probably think I'm a weird goalie too. Okay, yeah. Again, like you said, we'll have some fun with, you know, Robin Lanner is such a, he's such a terrific interview. He's so insightful. And you know what? Maybe we're going to ask Robin to give you some goaltending tips. I'm sure he'll have some for me.

Yeah. Some goalie tips from Robin Lennon. So looking forward to that. Hey, it's kind of a quiet week in the news cycle at this stage of the game as we're recording this on Thursday. Training camp is a few days away. But how about Connor McDavid speaking to reporters this week? And I thought this was a really interesting story by our Daniel Nugent Bowman in the Athletic, where Connor McDavid is basically asking for some more consistency out of the rulebook.

Here's the quote from McDavid earlier this week, Jesse. He says, and remember, let's go. back to the Stanley Cup playoffs when not a single penalty was called against McDavid, right? Which is kind of eye-opening. And Dom Luce Chichen, I thought that a wonderful job writing about that last spring. Here's the quote from McDavid this week. And he says, quote, you obviously want to call the rulebook. That's what it's there for. If you call each and every penalty, there's lots of them. But if there's lots of penalties, there's lots of penalties. That's just the way it is. The rulebook is there for a reason and you want to call it with integrity.

If you let guys get away with certain things, they're going to keep getting away with certain things. It's a tough job for the referees and it's something I don't envy. Connor McDavid basically saying, hey, call the rulebook. So do we think that this is going to carry any weight this season? Probably not. Just because, just because like, and I agree with everything Connor said. and I totally agree with him that they should call more penalties,

but I just don't see the referees making this drastic change where they go from obviously not calling everything that happens because there'd be a power play every three minutes to just giving power plays away all game long. I just don't see it happening. I think it should, or at least it should trend in that direction. I think when you look at other sports, they are changing their rules,

not just changing the emphasis of the rules that are called, but actually changing the actual rules of the game. You look at the NFL to protect its stars, right? To protect the quarterbacks. We want these starting quarterbacks that are the stars. We want them out there on the field every night. That's what people pay to see. And I think in hockey, it's almost the opposite.

We allow the rules to hurt the stars and make the stars jobs harder and not hurt physically, although that does happen with penalties. But we let players get away with things that they shouldn't get away with to allow them to hang with the stars. and make the stars worse off. So I don't really understand that part. It's just kind of how hockey's always been, but I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for the NHL

to kind of lean in that direction and start protecting those stars and letting those guys do what they do because that's the most fun part of hockey. You know what? You bring up such a great point because even if you look at, let's look at all the other big time sports.

And you always think that, you know, LeBron James, the rules are a little bit different for him. You think of the NFL, like you can't touch Patrick Mahomes. Right. Like if you touch Patrick Mahomes or Brady or whoever we want to say he's an elite quarterback, they've changed the rules. Even in baseball, I always think to myself, you know, the Mike Trouts of the world, they're going to get a different strike zone than somebody just coming in.

But hockey is different. And these McDavid comments to me, I think what's disappointing is when I ask you, do you think this is going to have an impact? You're like, yeah, probably not. And it's just like, well, ho-hum, that's hockey. And it's like, why does it have to be like this? Like, I think we need to do a better job. There's this weird thing about hockey where we have this misconception in our mind that unless you're just play through it.

And look, this thing drove Mario Lemieux out of the game in his prime. You know, Mario Lemieux was like, forget this. I can't, I'm not dealing with this in the 90s. And that should have been the warning sign for us. And, you know, you'd hate to think that Connor McDavid is going to become disincheon. chanted with the game. Like to me, when the McDavid's and let's say, let's put McKinnon in there, at least, when these people speak, we need to listen. That's what I think, you know? I completely agree. And his point about, well, if there's a bunch of penalties, then call a

bunch of penalties. I don't think anyone is bored with power plays, right? And especially power plays by the teams that have the stars that are drawing all these penalties. I think if they suddenly start a call on these penalties, games are going to be entertaining. And, and those penalties will go down because if they start calling every hook, every slash, every trip, the players will stop doing it eventually, right? Like right now, they do it all the time because they get away with it and you say, well, if you called every hook, there'd be a penalty every three minutes. Well, that's because they're getting away with it.

Of course they're going to do it. If suddenly every time you did that, you got a penalty, players would stop trying to get away with those things and I think it would quickly change. You're not going to just have a game full of power plays. You know, and I think what's interesting about McDavid's comments is as we start to think about training camp and then obviously the season. We're going to have some fun with a couple of prop bets ahead. You start to think about what could this season be for Connor McDavid?

Because if you prorate his numbers from last year's 56 game campaign where he broke 100 points, he would be north of 150 points. And I think it's going to be super fascinating because you will get the detractors, Jesse, who say, yeah, but he only did it against Ottawa and Vancouver. and, you know, it was weakened, like kind of a watered down division. Now he's going to be up against 31 other teams. Do we think this will have an impact on McDavid? He's going to be obviously playing an 82 game season.

Do you think there's a possibility he could flirt with 150 points, which only we talk, Haley and I talked about this on the podcast on Monday? I think there's only been five guys in the history who have gotten to that plateau. And it's Lemieux, it's Gretzky, it's Eiserman, it's Bernie. Nickles and Phil Esposito and that's it. Can you flirt with it? You think he could legitimately flirt with 150 points or are we setting the bar too high? I don't know if he can. I hope he can. It'll be a lot of fun. I mean, you talk about those names that have done it. The goal tending has improved so much, so drastically in the last 20 years, whatever it is, just in terms of percentages

and how hard it is to score. I think it's harder for McDavid to do it than it would have been for any of those guys. And I agree with you. And I think that's, to me, that's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most of this season is McDavid on a nightly basis because I think early on it was, well, he's doing it against the North division and everyone kind of had this negative connotation towards the North. But even if you take that away, and like obviously that was proven, Montreal, I cover the Golden Knights, I know better than anyone, that was proven to not be true. But even if you take away the the image of the North, whatever it is, no matter what division it was, last year was different. It's not the same. I say the same thing about like Golden Knights players.

Mark Stone. He had his, he was almost a point per game. player. Okay, let's see if he can do it not playing against the same division opponents every. Logan Thompson, the Golden Knights top goalie prospect. He was the best goalie in the HL. I'm like, yeah, he did it against the same six AHL teams every week. Like, let's see if he can do it against, it's different. Even if the North, even if you want to argue that the North just as good as the other four divisions, the fact that it was only against the same six teams over and over and over, it will be more impressive, obviously over 82 games. It will be more impressive if he's doing it against every defense, every goalie in the league,

every night, I think if he can even come close, if he can top, like, even if it goes over like 120, 130, that is going to be fun to watch. Yeah. And I think, you know, I'm sure in a couple of weeks, we will have some fun with some kind of maybe individual prop bets when we, you know, bring in for Granger things. And that, that, it's going to be interesting to see as we get close to the October, the middle of October, where is the line for McDavid, right? And, and how, how it moves and what we think it could be. So we'll have some fun with that. Speaking of fun, Jesse. I think a lot of people had fun with Monday night football. And first, forget the fact that it was an overtime game because that was that was thrilling between Baltimore and the Raiders.

But I think what a lot of people had fun with was the ESPN alternate feed featuring Peyton Manning and Eli Manning. And they're going to be doing this every Monday. And it got me thinking about what if the NHL did this? What if we had an alternate feed or broadcast where two guys or two players, or two, whoever they are, just riff a little bit, have some fun while the game's going on, maybe bring in some special guests. And, you know, I threw this out on Twitter. But let me ask you this question first. As a sports fan, could you get into an entire 60-minute hockey game where you're not getting

the play-by-play? Jesse, you're not getting play-by-play. You're getting two X players just shooting the breeze, having some fun, kind of commenting from time to time on what's going on, but they're not giving you the traditional play-by-play and analysis. Like, could you do that all the time, some of the time? Like, what's your, what's your take on that? Absolutely for me. Sign me up. I would say, I think it's more of, it's a regular season setup. Like, it favors the regular season. I don't think it favors big games. If it's a play-off game that my team that I'm rooting for has to win, I won't play by play. Like I, that,

for me, that's just the traditionalist in me. But 82 games, that's a long regular season. If half of those I watched, like, I've personally watched the Manning broadcast the entire time. I had my channel on ESPN 2. I watched the Manning Brothers the entire game, and it was awesome. You got to have the right people, obviously, for it to work. Peyton was awesome. Eli is, he's kind of just there. But, and then they had guests.

It was, I really liked it. It went better than I thought it would before, before I watched it. And I think hockey lends itself. I think hockey would be a lot of fun. And I think there are a lot of characters. there's in hockey, that would be great to do it. I personally think it's a good idea. But like I said, I think it's more for to kind of break up the monotony of an 82 game regular season. I don't want that happening in a big game. No, and I agree with you. And I think though, like the pace of a football

game, I think really lends itself to that. Even baseball would probably lend itself to that. Because you have these brief bursts of action for four seconds to 10 seconds. And then you have, you know, 30, 45 second intermittent breaks and then, so it lends itself to it. But do you think that the cadence of a hockey game, it would be, like, there's just too much going on too often for this to work in hockey? I think you have to do it differently. And like, honestly, I think that those, like watching the Manning brothers, they kind of learned, like, I think early on Peyton was trying to break down every play.

And then he would be three plays behind. And it was like, he realized, like, I got to change the way I'm doing this. And they're kind of learning as they go. So I think it would be a learning process. Like, I think it would change as they, as they kind of got used to the cadence of hockey. Hockey's obviously not as good for it as football, because like you said, it's constant action. But there are only a few goals a game usually. So there are like, there is some, even though there's action, there is some time to just kind of talk and break things down.

And I think you just want to hear these guys tell stories, right? Like, I don't know, some guy on the ice lays a huge hit and then this guy can talk about the time he laid him out. Like, I don't know. Just stories. more than like actually breaking down the plays. I think people want to hear stories. Yeah, I'm with you. And listen, before we're going to get this,

we threw this out on social media on Wednesday. We got some terrific responses, great traction. When we asked the question to hockey fans, if you could pick any two former players, who would you pick and who would you like to hear? Just kind of sit down and listen to them chat during the course of the game. So I'd like to hear from Jesse Granger, before we get to some of these submissions from from hockey fans.

Who's your dream team, the dynamic duo for you? Well, we talked about this earlier, but I think Hachuk and Wahl would be a lot of fun as a goalie. I don't know if everyone would get sick of listening to them, to them talk about the two goalies for 60 minutes. I don't know how long that would last. And then the other guy that when you brought this question to me, when we were talking about doing this for the show,

the guy who immediately came to my head, And he was, he's, he's, he's in quite a bit of these Twitter reply. So I'm not the only one is Ilia Brzgala. Oh my God. He is just so entertaining. And like everyone knows the, the, the famous quotes about the universe. It's so huge big, humongous big. Yeah. But, but to me, I remember, uh, in 2012, they asked him, uh, who scares him on the penguin's lineup. Oh, yeah. He's like, I'm not afraid of anyone. Well, I'm afraid of bears in the forest. Yeah. Give me 60 minutes of that guy. He doesn't even need to be about hockey. Like I said, this doesn't have to be intense breakdown.

Maybe pair him with someone who's a little more analytical and can verbalize the game a little better. And I think Briss Ghalov would be phenomenal. Oh, man. And his voice is hilarious too. It's kind of that high pitch. I always think of that one quote. He's like,

It's only game. It's only game. Why you have to be mad. It's only game. Why you have to be mad? And it's like, this guy would be amazing in the booth for, and it's interesting. interesting, right? So many of the submissions we got from people on social media were goalies. And you brought in Hachik and Waugh, Brisegalov came in a whole bunch.

Marty B. Ron, who is one of the best analysts out there. Actually, Martan B. Ron jumped into this Twitter thread. Yeah. And he said that they did this on the French language. So up in Canada, they have an all sports network in French called RDS. And Martin B. Ron says he was part of one of these broadcasts last season, along. with former NHL coach, Giebousche. So, I get, look, they've kind of experimented with this before. I like this, okay, and I think, like, I'm a big fan of, and I don't know if you would have ever covered him based on his career and where it ended, but Martin Brodor. I spoke with Brodur for some stories on Flurry.

Yeah. So I have, and he's hilarious. Exactly. And I think he's really hilarious. He's super insightful. Yes. And he's, like, he comes in the same way that the Manning brothers, have that, I mean, they both got Super Bowl rings, right?

Like it adds a, there's a layer of credibility there, right? For sure. And I do think that this is what I think hockey has always lacked, although we've noticed it a little bit. It's changed a little bit with this. Now they got Gretzky and Messier. But like when you go to watch the NFL, it's like Randy Moss, that guy might be the greatest receiver of all time.

You've got, you know, Michael Strayhan, arguably one of the best defensive players of his generation. Terry Bradshaw. Dion Sanders. Dion Sanders. Troy Aikman. Like these guys are all, you know, but you go to hockey and it's like, well, this guy was a fourth liner and this. So I like the idea of Marty Brodour because not only does he have the personality, it's hard to find personality and Hall of Fame credentials in the hockey world. I find.

Right. Yeah. Well, it's like Peyton. Peyton is the funny guy and the guy who breaks down all the plays. Like Brodour is hockey's version of that for sure. Yeah, that's what I think too. And so in hockey, you don't have as many. many guys who have both, they can check both the boxes.

Yeah, man, that guy's hilarious. And he's a Hall of Famer, right? Like the Charles Barkley type of, you know, every sport seems to potentially have one. We got a couple of submissions in here to, one person said, wouldn't it be fun to do Marty Brodour and pair him off with Sean Avery? That might be, I mean, I don't know that those two would ever get into the same booth after that playoff series, whatever they, 07 or 08, but that would be fun. I don't mind this one.

Okay, you tell me what you think. We got a submission in here saying, give me Adam Oates and Joe Thornton because they'd be two great players. One of them is super cerebral and the other guy is an easygoing character. So Oates obviously being kind of the cerebral guy and Joe Thornton be in the have some fun. Right. I think Joe Thornton is like, you ask like NHL fans who, what player do you want to have a beer with?

I think Joe Thornton is like one of the more popular. guys for that answer. I think that's kind of the the right way to go about it if you're going to do it, is get one guy that's the cerebral guy and one guy that's the everyone who kind of wants to just hang out with that guy and watch a hockey game sort of thing. And Joe Thornton fits that perfectly for me. Another guy who got a lot of love is Brett Hall. Oh yeah. You know, Brett Hall, but I want Brett Hall only singing Gloria. Remember when he, when the blues won the cup? All the all the submissions that said Brett Hulls. Most of them had some form of, but not sober. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Brett Hull is, again, he is one of those rarities in the hockey world, personality plus

Hall of Fame credentials and a couple of Stanley Cup rings, too, right? Right. Alice and Detroit. And I think he would be a lot of fun in that type of environment. Lots of love too for Roberto Luongo. For sure. Right? And Roberto's one of the guys who, up until he got onto Twitter, you were like, this guy is high strong, high maintenance, whatever. Then he got on Twitter, you're like, damn, this guy's funny. He's great. Really funny, right? Yeah, no, I think just like you said, based off of following him on Twitter, I think he'd

be phenomenal on there. And he's got the credentials. Like, he doesn't have a cup, but the guy's got, like, again, a layer of respect, a layer of credation there. I think, I think he'd be great. Yeah, I think so too. And I think the fact of the matter is with him. him, he's so, like, he's so like, but I just wonder, like, as long as he could deliver it in the

same manner that he does on Twitter, right? Like, Twitter, he's so funny, so sharp. Uh, so, you know, I don't know, he's just so. Yeah. He's hilarious. It tends to be as sharp on the broadcast as he is, like, with time to think about it and draft it out on Twitter. Exactly. Right. So we, you know, love hearing, like, we got just a ton of submissions here. And I'd love it, too, if, if the NHL actually did this. And you'd have to think with them going under the ESPN umbrella, that there'd be, you know, there'd be a chance for something like this to happen, right? Especially if the Manning, if the Manning thing works, like, like obviously it did well. First week, we'll see how it does going forward. If it works, I definitely think so.

A guy who is not retired yet, but when we were, when I was thinking about this, I couldn't stop thinking about him is Paul Stasney. And I got to cover him in Vegas. And obviously, Paul is super high. a hockey IQ and everyone knows that. But I think not all hockey players with great on ice IQ, they don't all verbalize the sport well. Some hockey players know the game so well, but they can't teach it to you as well. Like they just know it. Whereas Paul, anytime a play happened and I'm like, man, I wonder like who was supposed to have that guy or why did this guy get open? Why did that happen? I'd go in the room, I'd talk to Paul and I would be a thousand times smarter after having spoken to Paul Stasney than I did before. I think, and he's a guy who's third.

He's probably close to retirement. Sign me up for Paul Staz in the 82 games. I'll watch all of them. All right. Tell you what, Jesse, we're just talking about, you know, athletes and players in the hockey world that people would love to hear from in the booth. I have a suspicion. A lot of people would put this guest on the list.

And we're very pleased to bring into the athletic hockey show on this Thursday. Vegas Golden Knights goalie Robin Leonard. And it's a good morning to Robin. How are you today? I'm good. I'm good. A little bit early, but I'm fine. We'll get the cobwebs out for you here with a couple of nice, easy questions because, hey, listen, we're about a week away from this started training camp.

I think a lot of people, this is the standard question of, how'd you spend your summer? What did Robin Leonard do in the summertime and maybe get a little bit of downtime? No, I went back to Sweden. I went back to Sweden for a bit. I was traveling a little bit with some friends. and not you just you know with all this with all the co this whole COVID period here you know I thought I felt like I needed a mental break so took quite a bit time off there and then I rather I took longer time off than I trained a lot harder and a shorter time you know so I kind of got both parts of

a little bit of a mental break, but then also ramp up and get ready for season. We ask you guys all the time about, like, resetting your body over the off season. How important? I mean, it's a lot of stress playing in the NHL. It's obviously a high profile position. How much does resetting in the offseason mentally help? No, it's, no, it really helps. I mean, you know, it's especially for the last couple of, you know, as I said,

ever since COVID, you know, it's been pretty special schedule and special circumstances. And just, yeah, felt like needed a little bit of a break, you know, and, you know, you have some fun, be with some friends and travel a bit and just kind of, yeah, take some time for yourself in your own head, too. So it's been good and been back here now for a little bit and get back to it. So it feels good to be back. It feels nice to be back with the guys and really excited for camp next week. For sure.

Now that you guys are all kind of back and you're ramping up, how excited are you for this season? No, definitely. It's a little bit more of a normal season. You know, kind of back to the same schedule, playing all the teams, all that stuff. You know, it seems like forever you played some teams, you know? Right. Yeah.

And some places you really like to go, some of your favorite cities and all that stuff. And now, just back, come back, being a little bit more normal, you know. So it's definitely a little bit of a boost. And I look, yeah, it's, I'm really looking forward to it. And I'm sure, Robin, it might be a little bit different because Mark Andre Fleury has been a staple of that Vegas Golden Knights team. What's it going to be like going to training camp? And I know you had a very good relationship with him, not having flour there in training camp. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's, it's a double edge. I mean, I don't know if it's even a double-edged sword. I don't know. So I really like Flower, you know. Last year we really connected, you know. So obviously, you know, for guys, the goal, he was a good teammate, you know, and turned into, you know, a pretty good relationship. So definitely going to miss him.

And again, you know, it's, for me, it's no different going on this year than any other years, I've been competing with a lot of good goalies over my career. I think it's good. I think it's something that's needed. I think two good goalies are needed in today's NHL. But again, you know, yeah, expectations, all that stuff. It's obviously going to be a bit different now. And it's going to be a lot of pressure this year.

but it's also something that I haven't, that I'm not ready. Like I'm ready for that, you know, I've been over that hurdle. I think it's the 12th season I'm going into now. So just going to try to prepare your best. We have a good team and I'm confident in my abilities. And I feel like I've been prepared really good for this season. And we have another, what is a little bit less than a month left. until the season starts.

So still a bunch of work left to be put in. You talk about competition is good. And obviously, you and Flower played really well together, allowed the fewest goals in the league last year. But it is a little different. And you have a little more of a defined role. Is it nice? Is that part of it good?

Because as well as you guys both played, it was kind of you don't really have a defined role. You're going to find out next game what my role is for this game. I think going into this year, you have a little bit more of a defined role. Is that part of it good? And obviously pressure comes with that being the guy. But you guys, I mean, that's the pressure you want, right?

Yeah. No, I mean, that's the pressure. Every athlete wants, you know, it's nothing different. I think, you know, things just becomes a little bit, you know, when it's come to the whole situation ever since I got here with me and flowers, it's just been a little bit bigger than it was supposed to be. You understand what I mean? But that comes with sports too.

I mean, I've been through that stuff with many different teams. You know, there's also going to be something. But, you know, in the end of the day, flower is a huge personality and it's such a great guy, you know, and loved by a lot of people. So, but again, I don't look at it the way you guys are kind of framing it, like, you know, that my role is different or that I'm the guy. I go in every season no matter what. If you're a professional athlete, you want to perform, you go in and you think you're the guy. You know, last season was a bit different, obviously, you know,

with the schedule and all that stuff. And, you know, I felt like I was given the opportunity to be the guy in last season too. I was a bit different with a short camp and all that stuff coming off to surgery and then get my concussion and, you know, how good was it for our team that we had to really good goalies, you know? What if, you know, he gets injured, you know,

like, it's a good thing and it's turned into such a negative thing. But to the other point of me being the guy here, you know, we're... Brasser is with us now. He's a really good goalie too. You know, I'm not going to sit here and nothing is, you can't take anything for granted in this league. It's the biggest mistake you can make, you know. There's a lot of good goals in this league.

We added another good goalie to our team here, and I expect to compete with him too. I expect him to push me too. I expect Logan to push me too, you know. It's just a way it has to be because, you know, you know, it's just a way it has to be. Because, you know, as soon as you sit down, it's like, yeah, now it's, if you take the foot off the pedal and just think that it's given to you, you see a lot of goalies around the league, you know, they're very successful, like kind of breaking into the league. And then they signed their contract. And then they're the starter, you know, and named starter going forward with, without kind of perform, don't have to perform.

And how does it go? How has it gone for a lot of those goalies? Yeah. You, you, I don't have that mindset. So I am, you know, I'm doing the best I can't prepare to be as good as I can for this team and compete with my teammates. And, yeah, I don't, I'm not, you know, sit and say, obviously if I perform, I'm probably going to play a bit more than, then I,

I have since coming here. But again, ever since I came here, it's been very different circumstances, you know. Came here, played like, was a part of like five games before COVID hit. And then we went into shutdown and then we went into the bubble. And, you know, I got to play the majority of the games in the bubble. And again, last season, it was, you know, very fortunate. We had two good goalies and Flower played amazing last year.

So I'm personally just very happy that he kept on going. And he gave a shot and went to Chicago because, you know, he has a lot of hockey left in him. He really does. So I was very happy to see him take that decision and go and go there and keep going. You know, Robert, I think we look at the your Vegas Golden Knights team. And Mark Stone is obviously face of the first. franchise in many ways. And, you know, I think for a lot of people who don't, may not realize, you and Mark Stone used to ride the bus together in Binghamton, like almost 10 years ago.

And I just want to know, did Robin Lanner see greatness in Mark Stone even back then? Because this guy wasn't a high draft pick. And obviously he's turned in one of the best right wingers in the game. What does Robin Lennar remember about Mark Stone in the American Hockey League? I had been in Ottawa for a bit before, I think for a couple of years before he came along. And yeah, I mean, what I remember about him is kind of, you know, he's obviously developed into one of the best players in the league. And back then he was also very good. but what I remember is just the same person, you know, you know, work hard, just this work ethic. And, yeah, just being a professional and a very nice guy, you know.

And yeah, then obviously he's everything you want in a captain, you know. And it's always new, you know, being a captain of a team. And I think he did a great last year, you know, but it also comes with burdens, you know. And I just, I believe he's just going to keep getting better and better, you know, because it's a learning curve to be a captain, too, as much as it's a learning curve in all types of different positions in sports. So sometimes you might take a little bit too much on your shoulders and take a little bit too much responsibility. And, you know, he, man, he does so much the right way, you know,

and we're so lucky to have him as captain. Robin, you talked about your pregame routine with the iPad, breaking down video. And last spring, you were very open that part of your pregame routine, I think it was before game four against Montreal, was you were actually actively scrolling through Twitter, and I never understood how an athlete could do that. Can you walk our listeners through, explain to us,

how you could read negative comments about yourself so close to game time and not be rattled by it? Because a lot of us would be too insecure to read nasty stuff written about us. I mean, I think everyone's a little bit different. I mean, it's also, again, It's a year-to-year thing. It's been such a pleasure, but it's also been such a circus around the whole me and Mark thing here in here in Vegas, right?

And it's almost like, you know, as I said, I think I'm going into my 12th, 12th professional year here. And it's, you know, I just feel like, you know, I just feel like. Sometimes, you know, I don't get the credit that I deserve. And it's, you know, when I get the opportunity to play or when I started in Bublor, this last playoffs, or, you know, when I got back from my injury with a concussion and stuff, it's always, you know, so negative. And sometimes when the narrative around town is pretty negative towards me, when it comes to the position, it helps me get going, you know. It's, it's, it's, yeah, sometimes it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, see what people say and see what people, what people, what the narrative around me is and what the, uh, because, you know, in the end of the day, everyone gets going in different ways and, you know, you, you, you find motivation at the, at, at, at, in different places and, and, you know, I, I, I find it in a lot of places.

But in the end of the day, I think the best place for me to get my motivation is just having fun and, you know, go out and just compete and try to win games. And I am competitive, but when I'm in a good mindset, but sometimes when there's a circus like this and it becomes like this pressure situation that I'm kind of put in with all this, with this whole narrative, you got to find other ways to do it. You understand what I'm saying? it's if the narrative and the whole thing wouldn't be so negative around when I was playing and all this stuff, I wouldn't be doing it. But, you know, again, you get to play, you play the ball as it lies. And you're just got to try to adapt and do what you need to do to be as ready for a game as possible. We appreciate the time, Robin.

We'll wrap it up with this. So you've done so much for the mental health community. And I'd like to specifically ask you, on the last podcast you did, you kind of brought up that you thought you took a contract. You took less money to get that term. And I think a lot of people misread that, maybe took it the wrong way and said, oh, Robin's saying he's underpaid. He's complaining about his salary. And that's clearly not what you meant by that. And I'd like to give you the chance to just kind of talk about you see yourself as an example.

a symbol for other people who are dealing with things. And the fact that you as an Ansela goli who's played as well as you have had to take less, other people out there who have other jobs that aren't coming on podcasts every day and in the spotlight like that, they also have to go through things like that. And you were kind of just using yourself as an example of we need to give people the same opportunities when they've shown that they deserve them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I got nothing to clarify that except that I am not, I'm not complaining. or crying about my situation in life.

I'm not complaining or, you know, crying about my contract with Vegas. I'm very appreciative that I'm here in Vegas and I have a five-year deal. But yes, I'm underpaid. It's just a fact. If I didn't tell my story, if I've been quiet,

if I haven't been trying to help, with the mental health and be open and honest and all these things, I 100% would make a lot more money. It's very simple. Every contract negotiations ever since I came out with my story and when to rehab and all that stuff has not been even close to what any other one has had in the league. You know, in sports, athletes have numbers and athletes have statistics and that puts you in a group and that's where you negotiate.

And usually you get an offer from the other team. I haven't got offers from the other teams. We had to come with offers, you know. And when we present statistics where I'm exactly or above a lot of other players and make a lot more money and get a lot more term and all that stuff, not before even the Vegas contract, right? Like even when we talk to Chicago and Long Island and all this stuff, you know it's in the end of the day in i'm just trying to why i'm saying that and why even open

my mouth about this because it might piss some people off but that's not what it's for it's just to show that in this world in any negotiation if it's in sports or corporation or whatever it is it's about leverage and me being open and honest about these things that a lot of other people also deal with but hides gives the other side leverage and then they can put it as a risk. But in my opinion is if I if I'm open about these things and I have a network around me and I have my things how I deal with it and being open with it, how am I more of a risk than all the other guys that also have the same issues but the GMs don't know about it or the coaches don't know about it or the CEOs or owners of other businesses don't know about it, right?

That's a risk to me, you know, and yeah, I'm just trying to help normalize some things because in the end of the day, I believe we're all struggling with something from a certain point in time of our lives. I think a lot more people than what's being said have issues mentally. And, you know, I've seen it throughout my career, man, with so many different players. And they just don't get any help because we got to be quiet. And that leads to more people struggling and not making it as good as to their potential. And so that seems sad things happen. So, yeah, I'm not afraid to say that I'm underpaid.

But that's not a jab at the Golden Knights or at any other team. is just the fact and that can be backed up. Right. And I think the bigger picture, and I think the thing that's more important to you is, is like Robin Lennar, you have leverage. You're one of the best goalies in the world,

and you're still struggling to get like the compensation, whereas there are other people out there who just work a normal nine to five job, and those people don't have that type of leverage. And they need this to be normalized. that they can make a living and that they can do and and and and and and and and and more people will come with with with and and talk more openly about their issues right yeah no for sure and it's it's it's it's it's a hard topic to talk about to be quite honest because everyone can twist my words and all

this stuff and the most common thing is oh you know all poor hockey player millionaire making a lot of money crying about it's no I'm not man I'm not crying about it I'm just saying stating simply because of what I speak for and for mental health I have not got the a fair compensation that I should have had because of my mental health. It's simple. It's night and day. It's simple, man. You know, when you go through, when you go through the statistics before last year,

I signed this contract and I did the negotiation with Chicago and all that stuff, it was ever since Buffalo, to be quite honest, where people, you know, I was so bad in Buffalo, but I had best, you know, statistic there in my three-year tenure than since Ryan Miller had, you know, but we weren't winning. But, you know, when we, all the three last negotiations, when you take the last two, three, four, five years and even, you know, in say percentage and all types of, you know, the statistics that are very hard to measure for goalies, to be honest, but I'm up there, you know. It's top. Top. Top. top three, top five, minimum like top seven in most in most things.

You understand what I mean? And in Buffalo, it was a lot like, oh, well, the wind percentage is not good enough. But then how's the wind percentage in, you know, Long Island and Chippago and here? You understand what? It's it's up there. When you're in a good, like look at Gibson, one of my favorite goalies. I think he is a top, he's one of the top goals, 100%. When he had to, when Anahe was good, you know, everyone, like he was considered being one of the best

goalies in the lead. He still is. Yep. But now people, you know, now it's a lot more negative around them, right? You know, because when you're not winning, the goalies gets it, then the coach gets it, then the D-Men gets it, then the forward gets it. It's just the ranking order how it works. Yep.

And again, it's not about crying about shining some light to. It's just unfortunate because I just believe that a lot of people are struggling with things and we're humans. And in the end of the day, if you take care of your problems and you work with them and all that stuff, it shouldn't be that way. and I will keep answering honestly to that question because it's an important one. And I'm not saying it to complain for Robin Leonard. I'm just saying it to keep shining light on how it is and something that I would like to change. That's part of the stigma right there. People talk about what stigma is.

That's stigma. That is what it is. You can't be open and honest about something that you're struggling with or you will get punished. How is that not more stigma than, you understand what I mean? Yeah. I don't. So if we don't start being more accepting of people's faults, then people are not going to get help. And people are not going to, you know, do it in a way which makes you healthier.

So that's why I say it. I don't say to complain about anything. I'm extremely happy to be here. in Vegas. I'm extremely happy with my contract here in Vegas. I am. I'm just saying that I'm not being compensated towards my comparables. That's pretty much the best way I can put it. And you can even see, I think I tweet about it earlier this summer, you know, and people take it right away like I, people, I went on another podcast earlier this summer. and I was speaking about this stuff

and it turned in a bit negative but again people twist my words a bit and sometimes I might have to be a little bit better at explaining but they see me as putting other goalies down which I definitely do not you know I was talking about Marchstrom I was talking about

Allmark I was talking about a few new contracts around the league right and They're all great. Every goal in this league are great. I'm just saying simple facts of, you know, look at Allmark, he gets the same deal as I have. How many games have he played in the league?

How many years have he been healthy? Right. How many years have he been healthy? Has he had one healthy year yet? But my mental, my mental health, my mental health is a risk, but being injured every year is, not. Do you understand what I'm like again that people say oh now I'm putting down

Walmart no I'm not I'm taking this as a conversation piece into it mental health being stigmatized where you can have hip surgeries or knee surgeries or all types of problems every year and that's not a risk I mean I had one concussion in Ottawa I had a flu I destroyed my ankle in Buffalo and then I had a concussion last year that doesn't happen very often was kind of a bad luck thing last year. You know, like, I've been pretty healthy. You understand what I'm saying? But Allmark gets to say, I played a lot more games.

I've been in the top three, top five in all statistics. I get the five for five. And then people say, well, he went to the open market. Listen, man, I have Newport Sports, top agents in the league, got some of the biggest contracts in the league. You think if I thought that I was going to get more money on the open market, I wouldn't go there. But it was not always about eventually it wasn't always about go and get the most money in open market either,

it was not having a good playing situation. But I also know, you know before where you are, you know, like your agents talks to other GMs, you know? Like if like when I didn't when we were negotiating here in Vegas, I I know what other teams were willing to pay me. And it wasn't more than here. You understand? So people, oh, well, he went to the open market. That's why he got more.

Well. And then, you know, you're in the market three years in a row also. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, and the other part like that marks from me, he texts me because everyone was like saying, he didn't hear the podcast. But people say, oh, he was talking bad about. I was talking about March. I know Markstrom. We were taxing.

I told him, let's go in and listen to it. And he agreed to everything I said. I mean, Markstrom and I, we came into the league around the same time. And a lot of different circumstances for both of us. You know, we playing in different teams that said, you know, hockey position. The goalie position is a lucky one, you know, depending on which team you get into. And, you know, you know, if you go, if you break into the league on a bad team at the start, you know, a lot of those goalies, Dave, don't make it. no matter how good they are.

You understand what I mean? But Marshall had a fantastic year. The year before he signed with Calgary, was, in my opinion, it should probably have been one of the best nominates that year. And I had a lot, I had a bunch of those years. And with the comparables, we have the same agents. I know his career statistics.

I follow a lot of that stuff, you know. I get a five for five, he gets a six for six. I don't think it reflects, it doesn't reflect our performance. You understand what I'm, that's all I'm saying. And again, I'm not taking that as a shot to Markstrom, because Markstrom is a fantastic hockey goalie. He's a great guy. But I feel obligated in my journey to be able to speak up honestly about this

without trying to hurt anyone's feelings because I speak for a big crowd of people that struggle with mental health. And if no one talks about it, how can it ever be any change? And I'm not certain there's going to be any change, but I'm at least trying to be honest about things to try to open some people's eyes because I've had so many coaches, GMs throughout the last bunch of years and people working with teams, all that stuff, you know, that not unpurposedly punish me with the leverage part and all that stuff.

But then when it's done, you know, it's, well, someone of my family is struggling with this. I've been struggling with this all my son or my daughter or my grad. You know, like, it's funny how everyone kind of has the same issues when the business is done. It's just how it is. It's not like the people that makes the decisions. a lot of them have the same issues. That's this twisted part in my mind, and that's why I speak up about it.

Well, listen, Robin, as we say goodbye to you here, I think the only way that the conversation gets changed and the stigma is removed is when people like yourself are willing to be this open, this honest. So both Jesse and I really appreciate you taking a few minutes. We wish you the best of luck this upcoming season, and thanks for being such a strong advocate for mental health, because I think the sport needs it.

Thank you very much, guys. appreciate it. All right, Jesse, I'll tell you what. We probably could have gone another 30 or 40 minutes with Robin Leonard. He is one of the most unique, honest, transparent, outspoken athletes that you're going to find on the planet. And it was a real pleasure to chat with him and have him open up a little bit about mental health and his relationship with Mark Andre Fleury and the pressure that he's under and all that stuff.

I'm sure our subscribers, our subscribers, and the print side can look forward to something from you just based off that interview. Definitely. Yeah, he's great. We always ask the athletes to be more honest, and we always love that, and there's no one more honest than Robin Leonard. Yeah. So we're going to wrap up this episode of the podcast.

Now, usually when we do the Thursday show with Sean McIndoo, we do things like this week in hockey history and a mailbag, but listen, we'll get back to the normal stuff, quote, unquote, next week, but we got Jesse Granger in here for a little Granger things to wrap up this episode of the podcast. As always, this segment sponsored by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with us at The Athletic. And Jesse, let's have some fun here to wrap up the show.

You've got a couple of fun prop bets from our friends at BetMGM. Let me start with this one because I think this is fascinating. Okay? You can take the winner of the Stanley Cup. It could either be won a Yarrabir Yager's former teams, which feels like it's half the league. or any other team to win the Stanley Cup. So can you explain to our listeners how this prop bet works?

It's either Yarmir Yager's former teams or somebody he didn't play for to win the Stanley Cup. Yeah, so MGM has done some really cool things with these props. They have come up with a bunch of several really creative ways to bet the Stanley Cup. And that's what they all are. There are quite a few of them on there, but they're all to win the Stanley Cup. and they kind of divide the league in different ways.

And as you mentioned, maybe the most unique way is, will a team Yarmir Yager played on win the cup? And that's yes is plus 220. And you said it's half the league. It's 28% of the league. He played on nine teams, Boston, Washington, New Jersey, Calgary, Philadelphia, Florida, Pittsburgh, the Rangers, and Dallas. Some pretty good teams in there, obviously, Boston, Washington, Florida,

teams that are expected to make the playoffs. But you get plus 220 with the yes. So that means $100 bet wins you $220. That is the underdog. So obviously, Tampa, Colorado, those are the cup favorites. None of those. Obviously, Yager didn't play for either of those teams. So it's not the favorite for one of his teams to win,

but you can bet, yes, one of his former teams will win. $100 would win you $220. If you want to bet, no, one of those nine teams will not win the cup. It's minus $300. So you're basically getting a third of what you bet. A $300 bet would pay $100. Pretty interesting. To me, the one that stuck out was USA versus Canada.

You can bet which country will win the Stanley Cup. And obviously, Canada came real close last year. It's the closest they've come in a while. Canada is a plus 425 underdog. So $100 bet wins you $425. Obviously, you've got the Leafs, the Oilers. I don't know if I would bet Canada to win the Cup. Because to me, like Ottawa, who you cover,

You're not getting much value there, right? Like, if you're going to bet Ottawa, you can get them an insane number to where if they win the cup, you'd win so much money. The only team, like the Leafs plus 1,200, they're the favorite out of Canada. I think if I was going to bet this, I would just prefer to bet a couple of the Canadian teams rather than bet on Canada, because I don't think there's that much value there because there aren't that many teams in Canada that have a legitimate chance of winning the Cup. Yeah, you might say, well, you're on seven out of 32 teams, but really, Like you said, it's probably only two. You could maybe talk me into Winnipeg, maybe, right?

Like Winnipeg, if things go their way, I know there's going to be Habs fans listening saying that, well, our team went to the cup final last year, but it felt like it was a little bit of, you know, magic carpet ride more than, you know, sustained success. So I'm with either. I also thought this prop bet was interesting. You could take a team, either you take a team that has never won the Stanley Cup before.

So these are franchises like Ottawa. Vancouver, the Panthers, you know, et cetera. So I think is it 12 teams that have never won the Stanley Cup before? Yeah, 12 teams. And obviously, Vegas is the third favorite to win the cup. And that's included in that. So you do get some legitimate contenders, Winnipeg, Florida, Columbus, who's kind of going the other direction,

but they're still a playoff team most years. And you can get, yes, plus 260. I kind of, like, if I was going to bet Vegas to win the cup, I think I might bet this instead, because you can still get decent odds plus 260, and you've got a bunch of options. You've got 12 teams that can win it. Another one that I think is super interesting is original six or non-original six. And obviously, you're only getting six teams there, but you get Boston, who's expected to contend. I mean, they lost some guys, but they're still one of the higher teams in terms of odds.

Toronto, the Rangers are probably the next closest. You can get that at plus 360 for original. six or non-original six. So yeah, there are a bunch of them up there. I just think it's fun to find other ways to bet. And I think as betting has become more nationally accepted, we're starting to get more interesting and more creative ways. And this is just another fun way to put something in there to maybe have something on the line at the end of the season in a different way than just betting a single team. Yeah. And you know what? And we're looking forward to doing this all season long with you on the Granger Things segment. So listen, hey, thank you for pinch hitting

here. You're not this sucker out of the park. This was a ton of fun. The hour and change flew by, Jesse. Yeah, thanks for having me. It was a blast. It's fun to come on here and talk for longer than 10 minutes. Yeah, exactly. So listen, it was great to have you. And we want to remind our listeners, if you didn't get a chance to listen to the Tuesday. Addition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Sean Gentilly and guest co-host Max Bolton. They had Penguins Head Coach Mike Sullivan and chatted with him all about Team USA for the upcoming Olympic Games. So make sure you check out that episode. If you missed it, Thanks for joining us. We'll get you again next week. Like I said, Sean McIndoo should be back as our co-host next week. So we're looking forward to that.

You can always leave us a mailbag question by emailing us to the Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. If you're not a subscriber with us on the print side of things, you can join us at the athletic.com slash hockey show. You'll get 50% off an annual subscription. You can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts. Get all the bonus content from our entire network. It can start with a 30-day free trial, and then you go for just 99 cents a month after that.