The Athletic Hockey Show - Vegas Golden Knights overrun with injuries, NHL fashion, Montreal Canadiens flame out and the red hot Buffalo Sabres

Episode Date: October 20, 2021

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports along with Sara Civian and Jesse Granger from the Athletic bring you the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. On this edition, the crew discusses NHL players marketing themselves more than ever with a relaxed dress code in the NHL, viral goal celebrations creating crazy plays and the freedom to show personality on and off the ice.Pizzo, Jesse and Civy take look at the beat up Vegas Golden Knights, Nikita Kucherov back on long term injury and that players like Jack Hughes are exactly what the NHL needs to market the next wave of NHL superstars.Julian McKenzie stops by to discuss the 21 game suspension to Evander Kane, the foundering Montreal Canadiens and the surprising Buffalo Sabres.Plus we open up questions to you our listeners, with Sara sharing the story of the time the Hurricanes plane caught of fire...with her in it, and Jesse looks back on a rocky start to his relationship with Robin Lehner.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Piso from CBC Sports, alongside Sarasivian and Jesse Granger from the Athletic. What's going on, guys? How much? It's been a fun week in the NHL. Yeah, what are we going to talk about this week in the NAA? I mean, I've seen some seasons start off with a bang.

But this one, aside from great goals, saves, and everything else, heartwarming moments, we've seen a little bit of everything, haven't we? We've got crazy comebacks to Force OT. We've got Superman punches. We've got everybody trying a lacrosse goal, and I'm here for it. I love it. Before we even get to that, so this is episode two with the three of us, right? And I look at broadcasting and podcasting and everything else a lot like line combinations.

I mean, I'd like to think that with every game, the three of us are going to get better and get to know each other a little better and everything else. And when I found out I was going to be doing this podcast, I mean, every one of my friends reads the athletic, listens to the athletic, everything else. So I sent them a text and I kind of said, hey guys, like, you know, I got this got this new gig. Give it a listen. I said, what did you think episode one? And I want to read this right off my phone so I don't misquote anybody. Dude, I was pissing myself laughing when Sarah was reading the Banscape Dad. What a world we live in where she can say Jumbo Joe Bush on a hockey podcast.

It's the honor and privilege of my life, and I'm not being dramatic. I was like, we talked about hockey, too, guys. I mean, what did you see in the topics? So I'm looking for it. But I got to say this, Sean Gentile, I was listening to their show yesterday. He gives you a run for your money, Sarah. I know. We're fighting.

We got to have a manscape off at some point. Maybe at the company Christmas party or something. Could you imagine that, doing a manscape diet after a couple of drinks? Yes. That would just be something. think that could be a podcast and it's up. But like we said, we've got a ton to talk about. Obviously, we're going to talk about Eband or Kane. We're going to save that for a little later on on the show. Jack Hughes just being awesome in so many different ways.

The very beat-up Vegas Golden Knights. And believe it or not, yes, we're talking about NHL style power rankings, which I thought was just awesome. And later on, Julian McKenzie, Associate NHL Editor for the Athletic and co-host of the Chris Johnson Show is going to be joining us. And he's always great to talk some hockey with. So let's get to it, guys. How awesome is Jack Hughes? Not only that overtime goal, but the stick toss. I mean, we've talked about hockey celebrations and goal celebrations before.

But this one just seemed so much based on emotion. He was just so happy he scored that overtime goal. And that was his instinct. I guarantee you, and he said this with Craig Custon's and Sean Jindill yesterday. I didn't plan that. It was just pure emotion. Jesse, we'll start with you. When you saw it, I mean, I had a snobble.

I don't know about you. Yeah, it was great. And like you mentioned, the goal before it, the goal before it has to be that epic. If it was just a run of the mill, like, oh, I just threw it at the net and the goal he didn't see it and it went in. You don't get to celebrate like that. Like, that goal 100% deserved the celebration. But it's been overshadowed.

That's what's crazy. Right. Nobody's talking about this sick goal in overtime. The best goal celebrations, though, to me, are the ones that are the emotional ones. Like the, hey, we talked about it for a week. Let's take our gloves off and shake hands. Like, a couple of teams have done that. I'm not in every sport.

Football, hockey, whatever. I like celebrations that are just, you're so pumped. You don't know what to do. I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm sure to throw my hockey stick into the 14th row. It was phenomenal. I love the spur of the moment emotional goal celebrations over choreographed ones. 100%.

This is why I adored covering Jake Debrusk. He would just, you could tell he, like, couldn't contain how excited he was. Like, there was one game against the Leafs, like one of the 17 round one game sevens or whatever it was. And he just kind of grabbed his shirt and, like, he was pointing to the Boston B. And I'm like, that wasn't planned. And it's just like, I love when the crowd. And it's like been so long without full crowd. So, you know, like, he was just amped up by that and overtime.

And it's so nice to see these raw emotions again. And Jack Hughes is bringing some, like, he could be a superstar that brings personality. validate to this league and we need that. And they're all brought like there's brothers too. I just love it. I'm here for it. The NHL so needs that. And you know what? I've been accused sometimes of being that traditionalist. But that's just the way it's always been. You know, there's a reason NHL players a lot of times don't get the the recognition of the spotlight that a lot of people think they deserve. You know, it's you can go right down to the fact that they're on the ice with helmets on and equipment and they're not NBA players. Let's put it that way. but they also get stifled.

If you're a superstar in this league, or if you're a superstar long before you get into this league, you know, Sidney Crosby's been practicing those one-liners in the media since he was 14 years old, you get stifled. And that's, I watched that in the next day,

I kept thinking, please, please don't start saying, this is not part of our game. This is, you know, this is an embarrassment to hockey. We need this in the league,

don't we? Yeah, 100%. I totally agree that the NHL I mean, the NBA is, to me, is the best comparison because the NBA wasn't up there with football in America just like 10 years ago. I feel like in the last 10 years, it is blown up. And it's a big part of it is the individuality of the players. And I think hockey can definitely use some of that. I think there are guys who have tried to go, like, when you ask like, what's your favorite celebration? I feel like Patrick Kane is a lot of them. He's so emotional. And like he's been around

for a while. And I think he's, he's kind of tried to do that. But like Hughes is a guy who could, who could do it in a bigger way just because he's younger and he's breaking in the league. He has a chance to be a superstar. Yeah. What do you think, Sarah? I think this goes hands in hand, like, oddly enough with a luxury tax conversation, because a lot of these players don't make enough money individually, in my opinion. And then like, so they can't really be considered superstars, maybe even in their own minds, whereas like the NBA, the NFL, things of that nature, they're stars and they make the money and stuff. So I feel like once kind of like brand endorsements happen and maybe like ESPN and D&T help things along there, But I also feel like all of that kind of comes into play with, I don't know, maybe if we kind of see a situation with a softer cap in the near future, which I know some people are fighting for. Maybe we get more superstars.

But it's also like the age of social media. And I think the devil's Twitter is kind of funny. So it's like, why can't the players be funny too, right? Like that's supposed to be an extension of that brand. So I feel like a lot of things are coming together to kind of make this a new more entertaining era. Yeah. And I'm with you on this one, Jesse, as far as just the raw motion of it is what makes it. You know, you take someone like Alexander Ovechkin, who we talked about last week with the commercial that everybody was talking about.

But to me, the Ovechkin, for example, the hot stick when he scored his 50th goal in his rookie season. That one, again, planned. He said he was going to do it. But when Ovechkin scores a goal, it jumps into the glass, that's entirely different for me. That's a guy who just loves scoring goals with all his heart. And when he does, the emotion just comes out. So that's my favorite goal celebration as far as a consistent one. I mean, there's obviously the famous ones,

Tim Mussolani, thrown his glove in the air, shooting it down when he broke boss, he's record, everything else. But you guys, Sarah, we'll start with you, a favorite goal celebration. I think it was the DeBrusk one in Boston when they beat the Leafs, just because you could just tell, like, that kid loves playing hockey more than anything in the world. And maybe it's because I was there. I feel like just watching it in person and watching the crowd go absolutely nuts.

I've never seen a crowd like that before. it was just kind of a moment. You know, I'm biased because I was there, but definitely that one for me. I was thinking about this a while. And like I said, I like the reactionary ones. And I kind of like it when the teams go back and forth with each other. Like I talked about the Golden Knights and Crack and the Golden Knights were kind of getting upset at Geeky's stick twirl. For me, the one that sticks out is when Patrick Kane and Austin Matthews traded the, like, putting their hand up to the ear.

because I loved Matthews putting the ear up like, hey, I don't hear you guys anymore. It's pretty quiet in here. And that on its own was amazing. But then for Patrick came to score like 20 seconds later and he saw Matthews do that. And he intentionally was like, I hear him now. To me, that's the best ever. Like hockey needs more of that. Oh, you mean entertainment?

Yes, that's what hockey is. And this economy? Entertainment? I mean, that's, again, I just hope the new generation of, players that come in that show a little bit of personality. I hope, and I don't know. I haven't talked to anybody about this. I hope Jack Hughes didn't get reprimanded, even from his veteran teammates.

I hope this is just something we see a lot more often. All right, moving on, Jesse, you're not injured, are you? Because the team you covered is just banned. Go through this week. Maybe if you can give us a doctor's report of everyone who is no longer playing right now for the Golden Knights. Yeah, so I'm not on LTIR, but I am, I have, been studying my penalty killing because in preseason Pete DeBoer put Nolan Patrick on a penalty

kill. And I asked him after the game. I'm like, Pete, is this just a case of you don't have enough guys in preseason? You have to put someone on the penalty kill? Or are you actually working out Nolan Patrick as a penalty killer? And Pete looks at me. He goes, Jesse, you were the next guy on the PK. So at this point, I need to get my, I need to get my playbook. I'd love to see that. But yeah, so this team is really banged up. They lost a bunch of guys in preseason and they were mostly bottom six guys, but still important players on this team. Nick Waugh, Brett Howden, William Carrier, Matisse Yanmark is out with COVID protocol. And then obviously Alex Tuck, who's a big piece of this team, has been out since off-season shoulder surgery. He's not expected to play until

February. But those are all huge pieces to their bottom six. And then they go to L.A., they get their butts whooped six to two. And then it only got worse from there. As Mark Stone left the game with what looks like a pretty serious injury, the team is still evaluating it. From what I've heard, He's went to multiple doctors. This is a pretty complicated injury. They are saying he's somewhere between day to day and week to week, which they found a way to make those terms even more vague. And like week to week was too specific.

So they had to buy weekly checkup. Right. So they don't know how long Markstone is going to be out. But I can say that there is some concern. It could be very long. And he's obviously the best player on this team. And then their best goal scorer who's led the team in. goals for two years in a row. Max Patch Ready. He blocked a shot with his foot and broke his foot.

He's expected to be out six, seven, eight weeks. So they're going to be without two of their best players. And when you put Alex Tuck in there, three of their top scores on this team for quite a while. The Golden Knights are in trouble. And when I say trouble, I mean, it's early. If you're going to have catastrophic injuries like this, this is probably the best time of the season to have it. I think they're in a division that they can tread water in. I don't think this division is as strong as some of the other ones. So I think that if you fall a little behind, this, it's still doable. But this is a team that's struggled to score with, this team has struggled to score with Stone, Patch Ready, and Tuck in the lineup. So you take the three most dynamic scores on the

team out. And they're going to probably have to win a lot of games, two to one, one to nothing. Yeah, that stone injury is one that happens more often than we know. You can see someone get crushed and they pop back up as if it's nothing. He took a shot on that. Suddenly he takes a shot. shot on net. He's near the bench. And you know, you kind of think, okay, something's not right. Seconds later, he's got two teammates pretty much carrying him to the dressing room. And I'm thinking, what happened there? And not only that, me, we're bringing here in Canada, right away, people start, we're already making the Canadian Olympic team. You know, Mark Stone, is this a lingering injury? But, I mean, that's one of the strangest injuries I've ever seen. How about you, Sarah?

Yeah, haven't seen anything like that. but definitely maybe you go into shock for a second or you want to try to see how bad it really is. And then you're like, oh, God, it's bad. Get me out of here. Yeah. From what I gather, I think it was something he was dealing with. He's been kind of dealing with this. And it's like, oh, it's not so bad. I can play with it. And then Pete DeBoer described it as locking up, which makes you think back immediately. I don't know for sure what he's dealing with. But I think it was something that like it had been bothering him. And he's fine. He's fine. And then he takes that shot on goal, like you said.

and it just tweaked whatever awkwardly, and it just locked his whole body up. He couldn't move his legs. Like he said, he had to be carried to the locker room. The non-contact injuries are always the scariest to me. When a guy gets crushed, you're like, well, he could just be hurting. It's bruised because he got crushed. When a guy has to be carried off after not being touched by any other players, that's scary situation.

I hate the speculation, too, and people are like, oh, nobody touched him. It's not dirty. It's like, it doesn't matter if it's dirt. Sometimes we're not always talking about if it's dirty or not. We're talking about if the player's injured. It doesn't matter about intent or if anybody even did anything. He can still be injured. People don't realize that sometimes.

Yeah. And sticking with injury, stop me if you guys have heard this before. Nikita Guthroff, LTIR. Didn't that sound a little familiar, guys? I mean, it was the most talked about LTIR last year. They made the announcement. He's going to miss at least 10 games, 24 days, Maynade surgery, and 9.5 million AAV off the books.

I feel like this is Groundhog Day, isn't it? As Taylor Swift would say, I think I've seen this film before, and I didn't like the ending. I know it's a different situation, but I mean, you know people are going to bring it up. Yeah, people are. If they suddenly trade for $9 million worth of players,

then people, I think, are going to be upset. Yeah, listen, he is allowed to get hurt. Like, he has a right to get hurt. I feel like people are being, I don't even think it's funny. Like, call me when there's a lot of, players suddenly going into the lightning pipeline. I think we'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. They can trade back for their third line, all three of them, right?

They could trade back for them. But again, like I said, I get it. You're right, you're right. The man's allowed to get hurt. He doesn't want to be hurt. But it's so interesting because last year we talked about it so much. And just the situation, the way they manipulated the cap, brought people to talk about whether or not something needs to be done.

They had a, they put a team on the ice that was above the cap. Are you guys in favor of examining how that's broken down or just saying the man got hurt? Let's let's let's, let's end it. Most of the teams voted that they wanted to keep it this way. So I'm like, well, you guys voted on it. So here you go. What do you think, Jesse? I'm one of those people that if you write a rule a certain way, I'm all for the people

following that rule to exploit it in any way possible. Agreed 100%. Agree. Use the hell out of that loophole. So now, like you said, it's up to the league to rewrite that rule in a different way. But as long as you leave loopholes, these GMs, especially with the cap being like, I feel like five years ago, this was not happening the way it is now because the cap is just so tight. These teams are not in the positions they expected to be because of the flat cap. And they're having to use ulterior methods to get around it.

I'm all for manipulating the rules if there is room to. Yeah, manipulate. Maybe manipulating is not the very worst because I'm thinking you are trying to break. I'm all for manipulating, Jesse Granger. I'm all for breaking any of all rules that exist. No, I'm telling me the cap doesn't exist in the playoffs. Awesome. I always use this example when the cap first was instituted after the lockout.

And I remember when Ilya Kovulchuk signed that monster deal and they, you know, his last four years he was getting paid a million dollars. And that's cap circumvention. Is there a rule in the CBA that states I can't do this? and Little Armelillo still got punished and the devil still got punished and I remember thinking the exact same thing you did, Jesse.

This is just not fair. Change the rule, but don't punish people for, and it was such an obvious thing too. You just knew teams were going to be doing that. But as soon as I saw Kutrov, LTIR, I'm like, all right, well, I know what we're going to be talking about

on the podcast this week because that's just the way it works. Something else we're going to be talking about right after the break. Evander Kane, 21 game suspension for violating the NHL's COVID-19 protocol. We're going to talk about that with Julianne McKenzie Associate NHL editor of the Athletic and

Coast of the Chris Johnson Show podcast here on The Athletic. We'll get right into that suspension. It's a big one and what's going on with the Ebaner King. As we said, it was a crazy first week in the National Hockey League. But in this segment, we want to talk about one of the biggest stories of the week. And we want to do it with Julian McKenzie, Associate NHL editor at the Athletic and Coast of the Chris Johnston Show podcast. How are you, Julian? I'm doing all right, guys. Really great to see all of your faces and to hear all of your

voices and to be on the hockey podcast. I bet you didn't think one of those voices would be quoting Taylor Swift, did you? You know, I understand that Taylor Swift is beloved by many people, so you have to understand that sometimes you will come across Taylor Swift in your travels. So I guess that's just... Julian and I have talked about Kanye on the radio one. So it's only fair. Yes, we have. Yes.

I made the mistake of insulting Taylor Swift, not really on purpose, once. And that person has yet to speak to me since I did that. And all I said was I don't listen to her music. It was just. How dare you? Exactly. I had this friend of mine, we would go back and forth on like Kanye and Taylor for years. And then Kanye kind of went off the deep end and I lost pretty much any moral ground in that.

So it's been a tough few years. I like them both. And you know what? That's allowed. Fine, I guess. It's funny you said tough few years. That's a perfect transition into our first topic in you, Van der Kaine. Not my first rodeo, guys.

You see that? That's called the transition. Really good. Thank you. 21 game suspension. I've never been less surprised at a massive suspension in my life. We knew that he was being investigated for possibly violating the NHL's COVID-19 protocol. And by that, I mean, submitting.

a fake vaccination card to the league and the San Jose Sharks, which is obviously against their protocol and also against what's that thing called? The law. Julie, we're going to suspend. 21 games. Did you think too much? Not enough. Right where it should be. In terms of the actual suspension itself, I would have been fine with him getting any mark of punishment. I think it's reckless. I think it's stupid what he did. And as a, my good friend Samantha Chang from the Broadcast podcast brought up to me a couple days ago, I think the fact that his card was found out tells me that he didn't do a good job in what he was even trying to do in the first place.

This is a guy who I, I mean, as somebody who saw what he was trying to do with the the hockey diversity alliance, to see him kind of do this, I understand he had transgressions before that point and he's had transgressions since. it's an utter disappointment to see him kind of be this person that he is right now and just be this person who's been in the headlines for reasons off the ice. And I think for a lot of people who have seen him try to make a turn what it looks like for his career when the HDA announcement was announced in light of everything that had gone on in the United States much of the year of 2020, it's a big disappointment to see that of Ander Cane has kind of fallen a bit from grace here. but this is somebody who I would be very surprised if he got any other chance after this suspension. The San Jose Sharks, but by the way, but every time I see an article from Kevin Kurz,

it seems as if there's some article about how, oh, you know what, the guys in the locker room were moving on from Evander King. We don't need him in the locker room. You mean to tell me that after 21 games, I mean, I don't know what the record for the sharks is going to be like. Already the first game post-suspension announced they blow out the Montreal Cananians like five-nothing. I don't know about you,

but that looks like a locker room that had like a weight. lifted off of their shoulders after that was announced. Imagine having to go through a decent stretch of games and then Evander Cain comes back in your locker room. I don't see that situation happening. And I know that in terms of trying to terminate his contract, I don't think that's really a thing that can be done, but I really would be stunned if Evander Cain was anywhere near the San Jose Sharks once the suspension was done.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think a lot of people were hoping he, you mentioned it before, that was like a maturing moment, the hockey diversity alliance for him. And we kind of hope that that was where that was heading. And he's made a lot of poor decisions since then. I think that's the best way that I can put it is he is faced with decisions and he makes the wrong decision in just about every one of those situations. He had eight bad off seasons and one off season. Yep. It's disappointing. It's sad. It's illegal and it's long past to cry for help. I just, I don't see how he can come back to the NHL after this. I wonder if he's going to be investigated by the law because, again, it's a

legal to do this. He's putting so many people in danger. That's just not okay. It's interesting how you guys talk about turning the corner with the Hockey Diversity Alliance. I'll be honest with you. When I saw he was involved, I expected it. I immediately thought this could be the guy who we talk about in a non-positive way in the future. I don't know how much you want him incorporated with something that's good. I'll be honest with that was my initial thought when I saw he was involved. And we're talking about a guy who doesn't show, has not shown up to hockey games in the past who, you know, something as silly as a dress code has made him get into fights with, with fans. I mean, that picture of him and Dustin Bufflin where Dustin Bufflin's flipping him the bird kind of made its way around Twitter again. And you talked about, you know, the feeling of the team.

The word vibe came up in that article you were talking about it. And it's like, if your vibe is that bad because of one player, I mean, what does that say? Yes. Does he need help? Maybe. I'm no doctor, but this is just somebody who you don't want in your dresser.

Also, to this point, like, we're not talking about a guy who recently came into the league and had this issue in one locker room and might need to hope for us change a scenery to another locker room

to get a second chance. You can go through the teams he's been on. He was in Atlanta, which eventually moved to Winnipeg. He was in Buffalo, San Jose. I don't know if I'm missing any of

markets, but he's been around the league. He has played with hundreds of players in the National Hockey League and different general managers have seen what this guy is about. I think, I feel as if this guy has burned enough bridges, right? And I understand that some people might think, hey, you know what, he might be a good enough player to kind of withstand all of that. Sometimes I think if you've, you know, you get your second and your third and your fourth chance, like after a while, people are just going to say, you know what, I'm done with this. And I'm sure, even if another general manager was thinking, hey, you know what should we even think about trying to get a VanderKain?

They'd probably consult their players and be like, hey, you know what? Is this something worth doing? And maybe they'd be met with a wash of, you know, nose. And even if the general manager even went so far as to acquire Van der Kaine, the fallout would be pretty bad. I would imagine. There's too many good hockey players in the world to put up with that.

Yes. I agree. I mean, it's one of those situations where how many chances can you give somebody and is it just going to cause too much? It's already a distraction. They're already being asked about it. And, you know, there's rookies on this team that have not played with him yet. And they're being asked about it.

It's a distraction. Anyways, he's eligible to return on November 30th. We'll see if that actually happens. And he did release a statement saying, I would like to apologize to my teammates of San Jose Shark organization and the Sharks fans for violating the NHL COVID protocol. I made a mistake. One, I sincerely regret and take responsibility for.

which you said reckless. To me, that was it. Look, I'm based in Canada, guys. Our vaccination passport is a simple one to, if you really wanted to make a fraudulent one. I don't know what it's like in San Jose, but for him to do this, get caught, embarrass the team, embarrass the league,

embarrass himself is something we're going to talk about. Where are you at, Rob, like, what is the system like for you? Because we're in two different parts of Canada represented on this podcast, And I know in Quebec, there's like a QR code. Essentially, you kind of have to have on an app. It's actually a joke.

We have, we got a receipt email to us, no code, no anything. And whenever you show it, you do need to show your ID. But again, it's akin to a Microsoft Word document. It's terrible. And like I've been pushing for something that, you know, pushes to let people know that this is not fraudulent. I, you know, I play men's league hockey every week and certain guys have never been asked when we go to the rink. And it's, it's, it's infuriating. So I guess he just kind of thought that.

I guess he thought, it shouldn't matter how simple it is, though. Like it like, it's, like, no, no, no. No, no, no. Just to be clear here. I'm just saying the very fact that he thought he could get away with it, then doesn't. It's just, it's such an embarrassment. So we'll see if you say, we're like, oh, this was a bad decision. Like, it wasn't like a on a whim he just made a bad decision like no he planned this every step of the way to make it for him got the fake one made the decision to bring it like every day every day process yeah and it's not like when he when he apologized you know saying he had a gambling problem okay well you can say people have problems people have this people have that the very fact that like you said this was so predetermined and so thought out and he just thought he

can get away with it it's it's shake you make it makes you shake your head So we'll see if he does eventually come back. We'll move on from Patrick Kane for now. Bigger surprise, guys. Julian will start with you. The fact that the Buffalo Sabres are 3 and 0 or the fact that the Montreal Canadians, Stanley Cup finalists are 0 and 4 with a grand total of 1, 2, 3 goals. Okay.

I will say the Montreal Canadians only because of the way that they've been brought down to 0 and 4. I think I had them as a team kind of outside the playoffs. I kind of had them as a team kind of challenging for a wild card spot. But three goals and four games is really bad. Two of those losses coming up against teams that not a lot of people pegged as playoff teams. I can't think of too many people who have the San Jose Sharks as a playoff team. And there are people who are thinking that the Buffalo Sabres were probably going to go 0 and 82 this season. And both of those games, not only did the Canadians lose, they allowed five goals against both of those.

teams. Like, it's, it's not good. It's not good. The defense is slow. The offense hasn't been clicking. I think Jake Allen has just been okay so far, but I think Kerry Price, you know, it might be a different story if he's there in Montreal. And Philip Dono not being there out in L.A. Shea. Shea Weber not being available to them. Joel Edmondson still hurt. I know Mike Hoffman made his debut earlier this week. The Canadians are still missing some pieces that are injured and not available to them, but some of the other guys that they let go, it's starting to look really early now that maybe they should have found a way to kept them because they were such a huge part of the DNA that led them to the Stanley Cup final last season.

Like, you can't even put this all on price, as you're saying, right? Just because, like, they're failing to score. Do you think they should have kept Koken Yemi? Are we there yet? Here's the thing about Kokean Yemi. Like, I think that he's at a great spot in Carolina, honestly. Like I think the fact that he's going to be, you know, no pressure on him. The lion may say he's going to get, like, we've talked about this.

Like, he's in a good spot in Carolina. And I don't even think he would have fixed their scoring woes. So, like, when the Montreal Canadiens looking at the goal scores, they have right now, like Jonathan Drew has like two of the three goals that they have. Like, Yasparekakenemi, despite the strides he's made as a player, he's not being looked at as a goal scorer on this team, even if he was on this roster right now. Cole Coughfield is being looked at for that.

Tyler Tifoli is being looked at for that. I think even Christian Dvorak, who has an assist, would be higher on the list of terms of guys who are expected to score on this Montreal Canaan's roster over Yersbury-Marcaneh. Mike Hoffman. I think like three shots on that against San Jose. There are guys on the wings, especially on the wings for the Montreal Canadiens, who I think a lot of people, and myself included,

expected them to at least produce offensively. And we have not seen that through the first four games of this season. Jeff Petrie's mustache is gone. That's serious. When I saw that, I was like, I was going to bring up. Yeah, I was going to bring up Petrie because last night, the one thing he said, there's a huge difference between not having the horses and the horse is not running. And you look at the Montreal Canadiens their effort over these games.

And Jeff Petrie said it last night in post game. We have had two out of our four games. And he said 50% of our games where we've had no effort. So I don't care who's on your team. If your team's not producing effort, you're not. going to win games. And I don't know if it's the hangover. Obviously, there's a lot of missing pieces. Obviously, you can't like Sarah said, you can't play in price. You can't, you lose your captain. You lose Kuck and Yemi. But Jesse, I mean, no effort, no wins. I mean, I'm not

analyzing hockey in a new way here. Also, I feel like a guy who doesn't score goals, but is the reason they made it to the Stanley Cup final, Philip Dino. I mean, that guy, this team didn't score goals last year. They lost more games than they won in the regular season. They couldn't score last year. And then they won a couple miraculous playoff series because Kerry Price is the man and because Philip DeNoe shut lines down single-handedly. He did it to Vegas. Mark Stone could not create offense because of Philip DeNoe. And that guy's in L.A. And he's still shutting the Golden Knights down. He did it again the other night. But I think this team, like you said, I think this team won

that they weren't a good team in the regular season. They were a decent team that made it into the playoffs because the division was weak. And then they had a miraculous run. And that miraculous run. When you look at how they made it, it was playing really hard, right? They out hustled teams. They outskated. They outworked teams. And as you mentioned, Petrie said, they're not doing that. So if this team wasn't talented enough, even with those guys, even with Weber and Price and DeNoe. So you take those three players off the team and they're not outworking teams. They're going to be 0 and 4. So I think to me, maybe I'm not as surprised as some that this team is struggling because I just think that they're more what they were in the regular season last year than they were during that awesome run.

And like, that's not to take anything away from it. Teams have won Stanley Cups on awesome runs like that. And it doesn't, that'll forever have happened. But I also think you have to look realistically at what this team actually is. The North Division stinks forever. I was just going to add one other thing here. One big reason why the Canaanes were still able to make the playoffs last year is because of the hot start that they had.

Like, I mean, yes, they beat up on Vancouver a bunch of times. but those wins added up. And when it came time for them to, you know, have the valleys and whatever else happened throughout the rest of the year, which resulted in coach firings and whatnot, you know, at the very least enough of those points they accumulate at the beginning of the year, that helped them through. And if you look back at the Canadians over the last how many years, they've had that before where they have a hot start to the year. And then around November, December, things start to slow down. And then they end up as a middle of the pack or team that's out of the playoff picture. Now in this particular situation, you're looking at a Canadian team that is off to a bad start.

And unless something drastically changes, I know some lines have been kind of moved around at practice a little bit, at least some of the defense pairings anyway, unless stuff drastically changes with this team, that poor start might be what essentially dooms them in the end. Carrie Price is coming through that door anytime soon. Carrie Price did not skate throughout training camp. So even at the earliest that he could be eligible to come back, he's still going to need more. more time before he's even ready for this team. Shea Weber, we don't even know if he's going to play again. The horses that the Montreal can eat, some of the horses that the Montreal Canaans might need to rely on, they're not going to be coming back anytime soon.

The last thing I will say is this. The Jeff Petrie's comment about the fact that 50% of those games, they did not show effort. I'm going to reiterate this again. Those games were against teams that were not supposed to be in the playoffs, against Buffalo, against San Jose. It doesn't matter what team that you have. The Montreal Canadiens, I think at the very least, they should be looking at the themselves and saying at least they should be giving themselves better efforts against teams like

Buffalo and San Jose. New York and Toronto, two different teams, two different aspirations. But Buffalo and San Jose, that's not good enough for this team. And man, is it tougher to dig yourself out of a hole in a hockey market like Montreal? I know Sarah was slamming Montreal media this week on Twitter. Just slamming them, saying they're terrible at their jobs. And I don't think this is going to to adhere you to the Montreal press. There was a reporter that I like. And he said something like insinuating that Coconami wouldn't have been happy

if Montreal matched the offer sheet. And I just loved the way KK responded to that. He's so mature. He might look very young. He might, he is very young. But he just said he thinks it's inappropriate to answer that and you wouldn't go any further. He definitely seems to already thrive in Raleigh here

with his Finnish mafia as Ranta would describe it. And that's what Ranta said to me. So I'm running with that. They need to make shirts or something. But I just think he definitely fits in here. And he handled that like a champ. But I do understand where that reporter was coming from to ask that question. And I appreciate the Cajonais to ask the question.

Stop backpedaling, Sarah. I'm number one backpedal. I'll say something on Twitter. and then be like, I didn't mean it like that. Julian, thanks so much for doing this. We'll talk to you soon, man. Thanks for having me, man. Thanks.

Julianne McKenzie, Associate NHL editor at The Athletic and Coast of the Chris Johnston Show podcast at the Athletic. After the break, we'll talk dress code. Okay, guys, I was so excited to talk about this. Sarah wrote all about it. It's awesome. It's dealing with dress code because I grew up playing hockey and even at the very young age of five, six years old,

we had to wear shirts and ties to every single game. And this is something that I've debated with friends nonstop. And to quote, once Sarah Sivian, quote, pigs are flying. Hell has frozen over. And it's the end of the world. As we know it, the NHL clubs are starting to relax their game day dress codes. And the Leafs are going business casual.

The coyotes are saying wear whatever the hell you want. And that introduced a new power ranking. Sarah tells us about it. Yeah, well, it's like what we were saying before with the goal celebrations. A lot of these players actually do have personalities. They've just been kind of born and bred not to show them. So I like that these kind of loosening restrictions on the dress code shows you're not forced to do something crazy, but you can if you want.

And you start to see the personalities kind of bleed into it. And like a lot of them have been showing their personalities through their suits and accessories way before this. And a lot of them on the teams that don't have these loose. restrictions are doing the same thing. So I decided, all right, it's time to do a power rankings. And they didn't disappoint this year, I mean, this week. And hopefully not this year, because we're doing it all year. So we'll see. But I was surprised. Like, there is some, Yvgeny Svetnikov comes into this league and he starts looking outclassing everybody. But

I shouldn't have been surprised about that because his brother, Andre, told me he's, like, last year he told me, Yvgeny gives him style tips all the time. So things like that. The guy's, like, few NHL players have said things to me about this ranking already. They're excited because they want to show they have personalities, but they can't sometimes be the ones to say, hey, look at my personality, because then you come off a certain way, you know? Yeah, for sure. I, hockey players are super into fashion. Like, when I talk to gold, especially for me, at least, in the Golden Knights room, the European guys. And they know their stuff. Like, I'll ask them before the game sometimes. And like, they'll get into it.

They know all, like, they have the brands they like. Like, these guys are not, being dressed or, you know what I mean? Like they, like they, this is an intention, even with the suits and the Golden Knights, they, they still have the dress code. I'm a suit guy. Like, I wear suits to games and I like wearing nice suits and I like getting new ones for seasons and stuff. So like I've always been okay with it, but I guess I shouldn't be looking at it through what I

want to wear, like let them wear what they want to wear. But I do like the suits. And I like guys expressing themselves. It's not just a black suit with a red tie or whatever. Like they, they, I like the, the way they get out of the box, even within the dress code and some of the Golden Ice players are pretty good at. William Carlson's the one that everybody loves. Did you see his shoes? And then Marcioso's shoes too. Marcioso and Carlson are probably the two fashionistas in Vegas. Carlson loves his, his, his like Swedish hat. I don't know I'd explain it. It's like I want to call it like a cowboy hat, but it's not because the brim is flat. And obviously his flow goes along with that. You don't pull that hat off without the flow. But yeah, I love the hockey players being able to show their personality and fashion. Like I

said. They know what they're doing. I feel like this is the second time we've had this conversation in this podcast. The same thing with Jack Hughes and his goal celebration. All we want to see is players' personalities. And if they want to wear a nice suit, if they want to P.K. Suban it up and have all the different accessories and everything else, go for it. I mean, I hope we don't see just shorts and a t-shirt. Like, I like, I hope this is an invitation to show us your personality. And I think it's great. And I'm a little surprised at it, uh, going to be honest, just given the history of the National Hockey League, I thought, there'd be a huge turnover in the powers that be before we saw something like this.

But how are walking into the power rankings, Sarah? Me and Adam Vingen, the Nashville reporter, are switching off every week and we're going to have special guests and stuff. So it's going to, I know, okay, I'm not going to give it away, but Vingin has a fun special guest coming up. So we're going to try to keep it interesting. And, of course, always open to viewer submissions. So just let me know if you see anything cool.

Yeah. Patrick Glyne, by the way, took the number one spot this week. and he just kind of set Twitter on fire with those purple glasses. That was just awesome. Before we go, we threw it out this week, something we're going to do each and every week. We want to hear from you guys on Twitter. What topics do you want us to talk about or what questions do you have? So let's go through a couple of them right now.

Archer for Keynes says, what are your craziest slash funniest slash best stories from traveling with a team? What is the toughest part people may not see from the outside? And since it says Keynes, we'll start with you, sir. All right, I'll do the travel story. Well, I used to travel on the hurricanes plane, and someone started to smell smoke. So we were alerted that we're going to have an emergency landing. We were from California back to Raleigh.

And it was like four in the morning, and we have to land in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm scared. I'm like, something's going to catch on fire. Everybody else seemed really calm, though, except for one player I won't name, who was kind of pacing around with a little blankie and a face mask on. and was kind of talking to Rod Brindamore, like, are we going to die? And then I'm looking at Rod Brindamot. Like, you're not supposed to, when you're just a media member,

you really don't, you leave everybody alone on the airplane. That's rule one. But I'm just kind of looking around like, okay, are we going to die? What are my last word going to be? But everybody's really calm. John Forsland is actually kind of like calling what's happening all right in the air. You had the play-by-play? I'm just like having an out-of-body.

experience. There's one player, I will not name, played Temperature by Sean Paul. And then we landed and we did not die. Yeah, we did not die. Nothing caught on fire. The next day at practice, like, the New York Times and the Associated Press show up. And I'm like, I went through all this and I didn't even get the story. Like, what I didn't know it was going to be a newsworthy thing. I guess like the gravity of the situation didn't really fall on me because I was trying to protect my own mental health. But yeah, we went down and it was pretty scary, but I lived to tell the tale. It's like an almost famous movie. You know, we're all about to die. And you didn't write it. I'm some random reporter. I thought writers write everything. What are you doing? I know. I know.

I always felt kind of weird of being on the plane just because like you're not really supposed to say what goes on and you're supposed to respect them. But I feel like now that the Associated Press has done it, I can. All right. Hang on. Jesse, you got any good travel stories? Not really. I mean, I have some funny things that have happened to me, but I don't travel with the team, so I don't think people want to hear about me having to spend the night in the airport. I've never flown on the Golden Knights plane. I'm always flying commercial when I travel. Real quick one, I remember when I was doing the Hockey Night in Canada radio show with our producer, Jeff. He was the producer back then. We did a trip where we did five shows in five

cities in five days. So it was literally do a show, jump on the plane, do a show, and it was a great experience, but I'm somebody who I love being early. If you're early or not late, that's always kind of been my thing. Our producer Jeff plays fast and loose with punctuality. I've never had a week of more stress in my life. I swear Jeff wanted to get on the plane as it's taking off. And Jeff would always be like, Rob, relax, we'll make the plane, we'll make the plane. So when you talk about toughest part about traveling, it's when you travel with someone who doesn't have your time habits. Question number two from Sage Firth, the difficulties of being a beat writer and how writing, quote, negative stories can be perceived by people you rely on for your occupation and how it affects your relationship with the team. Are there any bridges burn by writing something even if it was honest? Jesse?

Yeah. So I think like, I guess the way I approach it is you have to be real with these guys. like they're hockey players. Talk to them like they're hockey players. And if you're going to write something negative about a guy, go into the room the day before. Talk to him about it. Get his perspective. Then write the story. And then after the story, go back and talk to him again. I think the story I'll share is Robin Lennar, who, friend of the show, he came on Thursday a couple weeks ago. I brought him on as a guest on this podcast and to kind of show that our relationship has been mended. But when he first got traded to the Golden Knights, the topic obviously was Flurry versus Lennar,

Fleurter versus Leonard. Everywhere I went, whether it was me writing on podcasts, on radio shows, I was asked to compare the two. What's good about Fleury? What's good about Leonard? I talked a lot about Fleury's lateral movement, and obviously he's one of the most athletic goalies in the league. And Leonard was not a huge fan of me talking about his lack of lateral movement. So then in game seven against Vancouver in the playoffs, he made a spectacular lateral movement save where he got across and gloved it after the game. I asked him, Robin, can you take me through that save? And his answer was, yeah, Jesse, you said I couldn't make those saves, and yet I just did. I guess big man can move when he wants to. And that kind of became a quote in Vegas. And then even on Twitter afterwards,

people are saying like, yeah, Robin Leonard is saying the media said he can't make that save. And he goes on Twitter and says, no, you as in Jesse, as in Granger. Wow. So, so Robin and I had our, Robin and I had our back and forth. Yes. But now we're good. And then like, again, I was, I was critiquing him. He didn't think that part was fair. But, like that's my job is to critique him, his job is to make the saves. Sometimes that will even like bring your relationship closer together once you have those talks because you realize that they realize more of what your job is and you realize how it kind of impacts them when it's something you don't necessarily think of all the time.

For me, I like to make jokes and sometimes that comes off as making fun of people. But ever since I've kind of shown that I am willing to make fun of myself too and like the guys can shirt me too and I think it's hilarious. I'm not taking myself seriously. I think they understand that I'm. just joking around. I'm not seriously saying they suck or anything. Yeah. And I think it was something you mentioned last week, Sarah.

And I've always been told the same thing as a reporter. If you're going to do something negative, show up in the dressing room the next time. Because there's nothing worse than doing something and saying, no, I'm not going to go. Even if you're not working, you show up to show that, I mean, you can handle it. That's got to go back and forth. Answering the bell.

Before we go, we mentioned Jack Hughes earlier on in his interview with Craig Custin, Sean Gentile. make sure to listen to that. It was just a great, great interview and not only that, but this kid's just so full of personality. I want to see so much more of this. Also, Joel Ericksonek was on Mike Russo's show straight from the source. So make sure to go and give that a listen as well.

So thanks to listening to us, the Athletic Hockey Show, and you make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget leave a rating and a review. And you can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all of your bonus. content from the entire network. You start with a 30-day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. Right now, annual subscriptions for the athletic, 50% off when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Next week, we're going to talk to former NHL goaltender, Eddie Lack. So be

sure to come back for that one. The athletic hockey show continues Thursday. Ian Mendez and down goes brown. For Jesse, for Sarah. I'm Rob. Talk to you next week.