The Athletic Hockey Show - Vladamir Tarasenko traded to the New York Rangers, playoff panic meter

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Hailey and Sean dive into the big news of Thursday of the Blues trading Vladamir Tarasenko, diving into the Rangers' side before Blues beat writer Jeremy Rutherford joins the show to talk about the trade from the Blues' perspective. Also, what this trade potentially does for the trade landscape for other players like Timo Meier, Patrick Kane, and Jonathan Toews. To wrap up, Hailey and Sean dig into Harman Dayal's panic meter 2.0, discussing contending teams that could potentially miss the playoffs.Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at http://LinkedIn.com/nhlshowGet a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase at http://athleticgreens.com/NHLTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the athletic hockey show. Why are you shaking your head? You don't sound excited enough. We have news. I was getting to that. I was getting to that.

Welcome in to the show. Shout out to the New York Rangers in the St. Louis Blues, because we were about to do another mailbag. no this is reggae horn Daniel's gonna add it Daniel's gonna add it because we were gonna have to talk

about either the NHL 99 project which I if it would be proof of a benevolent god if I go the rest of my life without ever saying another word about that

explaining my ballot getting yelled at for whatever reason pick one off the board I'm done with that but we are going to maybe have to like dip into that bag if something big didn't happen. It was either going to be that or more mailbag or more complaining about the All-Star

game. It was going to be a bad show. It was going to be. It was not going to be good. And now it is because we have some news to report. Well, it's old news by the time you're listening to this. But it's the first time you're hearing us talk about it, which is very exciting. Fresh perspectives from the Friday show.

So the trade call is Vladimir Tarasanko to the New York Rangers in exchange for a first round pick and Sammy Blay, et cetera, et cetera. So the full deal is Teresanko, 50% salary retained on a $7.5 million cap hit. And Niko Mikala, they go to the Rangers. And then the St. Louis Blues in return get a conditional first round pick in 20203, a conditional fourth in 2024, Sammy Blay and Hunter Skinner. Sammy Blaze, kind of a cap dump. He goes back to the St. Louis Blues. He was kind of changed hands in that Pavel Bouchnevich deal. So he goes back to St. Louis clears a little bit of cap space.

It's $1.5 million, which isn't huge. But, I mean, we keep talking about this flat cap environment. And that helps. 1.5 million is a cap dump. That is going to help the New York Rangers. And the Rangers obviously get an okay young defender. Nikomikla, he hasn't graded out particularly well. but I wonder if that improves on a Rangers blue line that includes people like Adam Fox and

Kandre Miller. I'm sure it will. I like the deal. I saw this and I was like, yeah, that's great for the Rangers. And it's not even like, wow, this is a steel. You fleece them either, right? Like it's a good deal for the Rangers that addresses a need for them. They've been changing their lines, particularly the top nine, constantly this season, right? Like they're trying to find the right bit on the top line, second line, where does Vincent Trochev fit, et cetera. And now they basically have on paper, which should be an incredible top line with Artemi Panera and Mika Zabana Jed. And now Vladimir Tarasenko, like he's your top line right winger now.

And this is good for the blues too because you need to get rid of the pending UFA. You get a first round pick and it's just, it was good. Like I don't, I don't think the blues got fleeced. But I think this is great for the Rangers. What do you think, Sean? Well, okay, so as far as the blues are concerned, we're going to talk to Jeremy Rutherford in the second segment. He's going to have all that covered.

But yes, they were six pending UFAs on that team, right? Like that's in six months, that team is going to look significantly different than they do currently. It's obviously led by Ryan O'Reilly. That's going to be a big part of what we talked to JR about in segment two, right? So we have that out of the way. It's an interesting situation because it's a interesting situation because it's, Is that a premium to pay?

This is all bits and bobs and, you know, fungible kind of pieces for St. Louis, including Hunter Skinner, who's the prospect, and he's, you know. He's playing the H.HL, I think. He's an organizational guy, I think, that's fair to say based on what Cory Praman said and what have you. So talking about him in a fourth round pick, and then Sammy Blay, who's another pending, like, whatever. that's all window dressing the big takeaway here aside from the accounting items is that they they used a couple months of Vladimir Teresenko and a couple months of Mikaela to buy a first round pick sure now that overall I think like from 10,000 feet that's interesting because

it's going to raise the price I think on your Patrick Cains and on your Timo Myers, right? Because that as rent for rental Vladimir Tarasenko, a pick that ends up being in the mid-20s or whatever, that's not a bad haul. So working under, and we're going to talk about that more a little bit, but working under that assumption, you would think that maybe this deal would be a loss for the Rangers almost because you're like, well, you kind of give up a lot, blah, blah, blah, it's not. It's a win for the Rangers. Yeah. Right? They paid a premium that you. filled in need, which is a top line right winger.

They had Jimmy Visi playing there recently, which he's had a great season. Sure. Like he earned an extension, his defensive impacts or whatever. Jimmy V. That's not a cup winning top line right there. That dude has a place on a good team, but it's not on the top line, right? No. So everything now makes sense because of adding Teresenko to the top.

Their entire forward group makes sense. You remove the Sammy Blake, because they're, that well had been poisoned basically because of the fact that he was the chief return for Bucinevich and like, whatever. You kind of remove that from the equation. The entire forward group makes sense. Not just from a top line standpoint,

but because they have that classic problem that we've seen from plenty of teams over the years where their five-on-five numbers are good, but their goal-scoring capabilities, like don't keep pace with it, right? Right. This was not a good finishing team. And even though this isn't Vladimir Teresengo

from 2016. He's not going to score 44 goals or whatever. He's not quite in that form. I mean, he scored 34 goals last year. Sure. Like, he's close enough to it, right? Like, people are talking about this guy, like his last 30 goal campaign was 10 years ago.

It was last year. And I think that it's a funny situation because I think people still in some respect, they look at how, and the guy on the other side. The other side of the coin is he had basically two last season. because of shoulder injuries. And I don't know that people internalize

the kind of bounce back season he had last year generally. But this guy, he's 30-goal capable. Like I said, the forward group makes sense. He can help on the power play, which has the exact same problems as they do at five-on-five, which is the zone time's good and the expected goals are good

and the process is good, but they don't have a finisher. And Vladimir Tarasenko, when he's 50 years old, he's going to be able to stand on a power. power play and pull the trigger, right? That's a skill that's never going to leave him. So it makes sense they paid, you know,

kind of an interesting amount, but in terms of what it does for that team, and Haley, like, whatever, I know you're as much into this as I am. The idea of him on a line with Artemmy Panarin and Mika Zabanajet is fascinating, especially with Panarin.

So this is from Mike Kelly, who has lots of data and he specializes in data with sport logic and he pulled some of the numbers I mean in terms of slot passes Artemey Panarin is top five in the NHL in threading passes into the slot

to high danger areas it is a down year for Vladimir Teresenko relative to what he did last year he's 10 goals, 29 points and 38 games you put him on a line with Artemey Panarin and there's going to be goals in New York. Like, it's just going to happen. And he's going to bolster their power play as well.

You inject him into their top power play unit. Like, that's going to boost the New York Rangers. And yeah, like, you're going to get more goals from your top line now. Like, I know, you know, and that's, again, I already said it. Like, we're talking about a guy who scored 34 goals last year. Like, he hasn't done it in 10. The only time since 2014-15, that Vladimir Tarasenko hasn't hit at least 30 goals

was those two seasons when he was injured. He played 10 games in 2019-20, and he played 24 games in 2020-21. And that's around when he had the original trade request. And he was hurt. Right. Like, this is a 30-goal guy. This is a 30-goal score.

Those are, like, they are not that simple to find this time of year. and it's simple like supply and demand. So to me, I don't think the cost of doing this business is that bad. Look at what the Islanders gave up for Bo Horovat. This is pretty comparable. And the thing that's very interesting to me is like we know that Vladimir Tarasenko had a full no trade clause, right? And I don't believe he ever rescinded his trade request.

And it sounds like the Rangers are a team that have been interested in him for a while. like original trade request time, right? So there is a world where this is pretty similar to what the Islanders just did with Bo Horvatt, where this isn't actually a rental situation. Like, it's going to be easier to palate giving up a first round pick for more team. I'm not saying they should go for an eight-year deal here. Like, let's not do that. A lot of your tears saying, go. But like, you could potentially be giving that up to now have the rights to sign him to a longer-term deal. And now you have him in control. And that makes it more palatable. So sure, he's a pending on restricted free agent, but he had to waive that no trade clause to let this deal happen. So there is a reality that doesn't seem too crazy to me

that we see of Vladimir Tarasenko deal in New York. And that's just me bullshitting on a podcast, but I just, I think that's something that could happen. We just saw with Beauhorvat, right? These things can come together pretty quickly, especially for GMs who don't want to feel like they mortgage the farm for a couple months of one guy. Sure. And, you know, it is it going to be, I mean, it's going to depend on, you know, what Vladimir Teresenko is, is, is looking for moving forward because, you know, the, the Rangers don't have a ton coming off the cap. They have. Yeah, like it's another contract. Eight times eight point five, right? That's not what we're talking about. Right. You have, you got to figure out what to do with Philippeedal who's coming up to another RFA year and Lafranier and crafts. Like, you have a lot of RFA. to worry about... You're not able to stop talking to me about the kid line, by the way. Enough.

Well, sure. But... I mean, they're not going to call it. I'm not going to call it that. But here's what we're looking at from a Rangers, from a Rangers standpoint. This is like just throwing darts at lines. Top line from left to right. Panarin Zabanajad Tarisenko.

Second line from left to right. Lafranier, Heidel, Kako. third line, Kreider, Trochev, Kravtsov. Not Gudrow, or Gudrow, fourth line?

Fourth, maybe Gudrow is centering that fourth line, which makes a lot more sense. I love, I love Barclay Goodrow,

fourth line center between Vizi and Goce. And then you have Mikala is the third pairing, left side D, paired with Braden Schneider, and then you can send

Ben Harper to the bench. That is, a team that wins playoff rounds, I think. They have an extra 11 games ahead of the deadline to incorporate Tarasenko and Mikala, too. Like, he is part of this. Like, I know he's not the shining piece of the deal, but Arthur Staples did kind of write in his story today. Don't sleep on that part of this deal.

Like, Krusturia has been looking for a capable partner for Braden Schneider since the middle of last season. And Mikola has a bit of edge to his game, not a ton of offensive upside, but he, could, you know, maybe stabilize the third pair a little bit. Like, he's part of this too. And now they've got 11 games ahead of the deadline to incorporate both of those players and see if they want to do something else, get those guys incorporated into the lineup and go on a run.

I think we need to reinforce here, too, just how tight Teresenko and Panarin are and how long they've known each other. And the relationship that's there on and off the ice, like, whenever. Whenever Pinaran was making the decision to come over from Russia, you know who lobbied the Blues to maybe sign them way back when? Vladimir Tarasenko. They've known each other for a really, really long time and played together for a long time.

Isn't there a picture of them at the World Juniors together circulating? Absolutely, absolutely. And they're tight. So that's the sort of thing. You know, you look at that and you think, first off, they have personal chemistry. They have... Besties chemistry.

They're bros. Yeah. They play together. That's gonna work. You got to... It's probably gonna... It's probably gonna work. It's Besties Edition.

New York Rangers. It's the New York Rangers Besties Edition. Look out. Work associates. Sure. But we saw what... We saw what Teresenko did

with an elite playmaker last year and Robert Thomas, right? That was a huge, huge part of his success. Now you're pairing them with Two, one of whom he's BFFs with, right? So that bodes well for this season. It bodes well moving forward. And I think generally with the way the NHL works,

we know that there's a pretty good chance that this is going to lead to some kind of longer term deal. Not an eight years. Not an eight times eight. Like it should, no, no, no. It's not going to be a Bohr-Horvet deal because you don't want to sign Vladimir Teresenko until he's 39 years old.

But it bodes well. I like it, especially when it looks like it's going to be an arms race in the metro division, right, where you're talking about Horvatt, you're talking about, you know, what are the devil's going to do? I think this checks a whole lot of boxes, including the timing on it. You can buy early and you can basically, you know, fill a serious need regardless of the price.

So you kind of stole my point here. This is my transition now. I was trying to. Yeah, well, that's not very neighborly of you. Bad neighbors. The deal obviously in itself is interesting because it's February 9th and we get a trade in the middle of the NBA trade deadline. Woo-hoo. There's like actual things happening in the NHL.

But I'm very interested in the ripple effect of this too, right? And you mentioned a little bit in terms of this arms race. The Islanders already got Bo Horvatt and they've, you know, they've won their first two games with him. He scores already. They're at UBS Arena the first time he plays there And they're doing the horvat, horovat chance like that looks like it's going to work The early returns are there There's an early honeymoon happening on Long Island

And now the Rangers get Teresanko And things look great Okay, so now what are the devil's going to do? What are the penguins going to do? Like what are the cane's going to do? What's going to happen in the Eastern Conference? Like how many of these teams are going to feel like crap Now we've got to go and get something going here

And I know when I saw this deal today, I saw a number of Devils fans going on Twitter and saying, all right, let's just get the Tim O'Meyer to New Jersey over with. Like, let's do it. Let's go. It's going to be fun. I hope it happens.

Like, I want to see an arms race in the, in the Metro. Metropolitan era. The Metropolitan. That's, ugh. I just choked on something. Okay, and then the other piece of this is it kills the Patrick King.

to the rangers speculation that's been going on, right? Sean, you and I have been a part of the, you know, season predictions that we've been doing at the athletic, you know, every kind of month or so, we revisit our preseason predictions. And there's kind of been this trend of, you know, Patrick Cain is 100% according to our athletic people who just want to, you know, read the tea leaves.

Everyone's like, Rangers, they make so much sense. He played with our Temi Panarin before. They play well together. It makes so much sense. not so much anymore. Like I would be shocked if the Rangers were able to pull off of Patrick Kane trade at this point. And, you know, I did see this from Emily Kaplan earlier this afternoon. And the Rangers were, you know, they kind of worried about the price of acquiring Patrick Kane.

But Emily also reported there was a little bit of worry with Kane's hip injury that he's dealing with this season. Like something that is surfaced in the last little bit, right? where that's a good explanation for the way that he's played. He's been awful in a way that can't just be explained away with his linemates and the vibes in Chicago and how it would have messed that team. Because first off, by the way, God bless the Chicago Blackhawks and God bless Luke Richardson. That team's playing hard as hell for as atrocious as the on-ice product has been at certain points. So, like, things could be worse, right?

Like the environment in Chicago is probably not as bad as you would. guess based on the results. Yeah, and unless there is like a serious issue with his hip that is going to hurt him in the postseason, which is not why you acquire someone like Patrick Kane. I don't think his stat line alone is something that's going to like lower the value because he has the best resume of anybody currently on the trade boards. Like, you know, Patrick Kane not having the same kind of production right now. I don't think hurts his value.

And I think that's the part of this discussion that we haven't gotten to yet is, and we've touched on it, but like how much. is acquiring Kane going to cost? How much is acquiring Team O'Meer, who's younger and better than Teresanko and in team control going to cost? I can't wait to see what, like, are we going to get a trade deadline blockbuster here to like moving tons of money out to make this happen? Is there going to be a power broker that steps in and helps out?

Like how much are the devils or whatever team potentially pulls this off? Going to have to give up. And the last point here on the Kaplan post, too, because there's just so many ripples effects of this which make this a very intriguing deal. So according to Emily from ESPN, we should say, I'm sure people know that.

She said, it doesn't sound like the Rangers got to the asking price point of discussions with the Blackhawks because the ball is still in Patrick Kane's court coming to Chicago with what he wants to do. The New York Rangers did not want to wait on him and had concerns about his hips. So this is the other little wrinkle here.

If Patrick Kane, if we believe that Patrick Kane might have been interested in going to the Rangers, that is now off the table partially because he has not started to act yet. And now I wonder if we're going to start to see the ball rolling on some of these other top pieces, like other teams say, oh gosh, we need to go do something. Patrick Kane and Jonathan Tames are going to need to make a decision sooner rather than later. Because the destinations they want to go to are going to say, nope, we don't have the cap space and we don't have the room. You waited too long. Although I think there's teams who are going to wait for Patrick Kane, let's be honest. Yeah, there's, there's, there's,

There's some that would, and I think it's, I think the reason they will is not just because it's Patrick Kane. It's the fact that Patrick Kane, it's 60% in half price, basically, is still a better option than a lot of what's on the market. Because you start looking at the big boards, regardless of whether it's at the athletic or anywhere else. Like, names are starting to move. Yeah. And it weren't that great to begin with. This was always going to be a little bit of a dud. and thank God for Beauhor about popping up and all apologies to Vancouver.

Thank God for Vladimir. But the train wreck in Vancouver, you know, at least made stuff a little bit, a little bit more interesting. Yeah, I mean, this functionally takes the Rangers out of the, out of the Canadian situation. I mean, unless there was some way for them to take the half cap hit down to a quarter by laundering, laundering him through a third team. Everybody always says that it's not, everybody always says that it's not something we see in practice. And that's because it comes at a cost because you have to pay, if you're the Blackhawks or whoever, you have to pay the other team to take on the cap hit, right? So you're talking about more assets to drive down the price of Patrick Kane.

So that'll make it more complicated. The one I keep coming back to, and this is more speculation and this is 100% speculation, really. It's the kings. I want the kings to get Patrick Kane. What? Yeah, I want it to happen. Oh. Why?

Explain. Explain? I just didn't see that comment. I thought when you said the Kings, you were going to be like, Thatcher Demko. I want the Kings to trade for everybody. I wanted them to trade,

I wanted them to add Vamalka. And realistically, Demko fulfills, like, so much more of a need and he lines up with their time frame and whatever else, right? but the idea of Kane linking up with the other old dudes on the Kings

Dowdy, you know I wonder if they Andrew Dowdy are friends I feel like in some respects they should get along I don't know but the kings have the issue for the kings and this is like so true for so many other people is cap space but they have the prospect base to make it work

they have their own first round pick they have the assets to make things work, right? And they also continually, even for as good as Kevin Fiala has been, they're short on like high-end finishing ability, right? They're short on like just really offensive play driving. It's a solid team, but they need some dynamism in the offensive end. And he certainly provides that, right? So you add him to a whatever, mess with the lines a little bit,

Keep Kempi with Kopitar and Byfield, maybe see who works with the no, whether it's him or Arvinson. I think that's the one that I want to see. And by the way, we're just picking names off of the story that Mark Lazarus and Scott Powers published a little bit ago. It's Blackhawks trade tracker. They're sort of doing a quick assessment of who need to. Vegas is certainly going to enter the equation here because they have yet to add Mark Stone to LTIR. Carolina Hurricanes. hurricanes, of course,

even though the hurricanes, I would, you know. They're not like the high cost. They're not the high cost rental. They're not, and they need a center more than anything. Yeah. There aren't any. So then, you know, the question becomes, you know,

okay, you guys can't get a center. What about, what about overextending yourself for Patrick Kane? You interested in that? Like, I don't know. Right. So one question, going off the Kane, King's course.

Mm-hmm. Jack Hughes. He's out week to week. Upper body injury. Do the Devils now expedite whatever they were maybe going to do with the deadline? Are we going to see like a Devin a team of them higher to the Devils? The Devils like Twitter fan base. That would help minimize the damage.

Patrick Cain to the Devils? Mm-hmm. Either are, man. And while Jack Hughes is still out. The online Devils fans are foaming at the mouth. for Tim O'Meyer right now, which is understandable. They have a top five system.

He fits in with their long-term plans. We said it before they have a bunch of money coming off the books after this season and with Thomas Tatar and whoever else. He just seems like a devil's kind of acquisition, right? He fits in with a lot of things that they value there. Right?

So, I mean, yeah, Devil's fans want it to happen. We need the tri-state area. you know, portion of the Metro division to amp it up. Then, of course, you have the Pittsburgh Penguins who are Ron Eckstall's. He's in bed for the night, actually. He's sleeping.

He already said, you know, he just seems like he's not interested in moving a first round pick. Their opposition just got better in the last couple days. And the penguins have a couple of deficiencies, to say the least, in their lineup. Not a ton of cap space to do anything. The bottom six,

believe it's well so now I think the thing with the penguins is is like do you just this is an interesting dilemma because you commit to your big three right you keep all the guys together assuming like okay this is our window this is our window right now Sydney Crosby's let's just call it Sydney Crosby's remainder of his contract that he's currently in what that's three years four years left three years let's just say that's the penguin's window of contention and Malkin's still you know they're still youngish they're not young but they're old it's okay They're young adjacent. You don't have to humor me here.

Right. But let's just say like this is their window of contention. Yeah. But you're also acknowledging. Who cares? But they're also acknowledging that they're not good enough this year and is making a trade right now going to make them good enough. So now if you're the penguins, it's just like, okay, do we get rid of the first round pick? Because we committed to winning with this big three one more time.

We want to win one more cup with Crosby, Malkin, and Lattang. Okay. But we also like aren't very good and we don't think trading our first round. round pick is going to do anything. So you're kind of, their penguins are just stuck. The reason to hold on that first round pick, if you're the penguins, is because they don't have any easy way to clear out space. Right now. And like, who's going to take his his case happening right now? Nobody, because he's, he's a waste of money. He's on one of the worst contracts in league. This guy, the guy does, he adds nothing, right? So they're stuck. They're

screwed. Their roster is made up, and this is a lethal place to be. And it's where a lot of teams have found themselves over the years, right? Where you, everybody on that, team is either a piece that cannot be traded for one reason or another like they're too valuable to trade or uh or has no value on the open market there's no who would have some value commodities there jake gensel i don't know how you trade jake gensel and get better for timo mire yeah okay you're just like shuffling you're just like shuffling and then you still have the overall issue, which is they have... Casbury Caponan. They have Casperi Capon and Jeff Carter and

Dan Hinenin given them nothing on the third line. So yeah, that... They're one of the teams I'm watching the most at the deadline, I think. They're interesting in that. They might not do anything, and that's dumb, because it was just like, are you committed to winning with these guys or not? Like, why did you bring them back so they, you guys could tank and then they could just retire penguins? Yeah, I mean, the answer is... The short answer is that they're not. They're not fully committed to selling out and winning with his guys over the next few years. Right.

And that's dumb. Then you should have just let them leave and win somewhere else. Actually, no. It would have been very strange to see if getting them all can play somewhere else. But you know what I mean. If you're going to commit to it, do it. They got one foot in the pool and one foot and one foot out. What's out of the pool?

Not the place you want to. What were you going to say? You know, it's seriously. Where were you going with that? This is fine. This is fine for the Pittsburgh Penguins. Because the islanders got better and whatever else. They're going to miss the playoffs and they're just going to win the lottery and they're going to draft color but hard.

Oh. Simple. We got Jeremy Rutherford coming up here in a minute, right? That's my job. Is it? Yes. I've talked about this enough. Finish.

Yes, that's why I messaged you saying let's wrap this conversation so I could wrap this conversation. I thought you wanted me to wrap it. No, I wanted you to stop talking. Okay, then just say it and whatever. No, you finish. You already started. We got Jeremy Rutherk coming up. He's going to break down the Teresenko trade from the Blues perspective

and also give us whatever he's got on Ryan O'Reilly, a couple other players that make the Blues one of the most interesting themes at the deadline. All right. So this is great for us. This is one of my personal favorite people to work with. I don't know how Sean feels. But Jeremy Rutherford's one of my favorites. We shared a nice Italian dinner in Montreal.

You remember that, Jared? It was nice. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Yeah, anytime Italian, Haley, Mike Russo, that was a good time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Joe Smith. Joe Smith. Yeah, absolutely. Welcome to the show, Jeremy. It's Jeremy Rutherford. We're going to talk about the blues. We're not going to talk about dinner.

I mean, we could. We could do both. Oh, anytime. Yeah. My two favorite topics, the blues and dinner. So I'm sure people want to hear more about the big trade today. So let's jump on that. Absolutely. So Sean and I were just talking about. the deal, obviously just to recap for people here, Vladimir Teresanko traded from the Blues to the New York Rangers in return for

a first round pick, Sammy Blay, a fourth round pick, and Hunter Skinner. Jeremy, what do you make of the return for St. Louis? Well, I think it's a pretty decent return considering that if there's a healthy

max patch ready and a few other guys around the league that a couple weeks ago, we were wondering, would the blue get a first round draft pick for Vladimir Tarasenko. Maybe people outside St. Louis think that's crazy talk because of course you were going to get one, but I think here in St. Louis, there was a curiosity.

So for the Blues to not only get a first round pick, but also get a fourth round pick that could turn into a third round pick if the Rangers make the playoffs, which you know, they should. Also, they get a defensive prospect to put into their system.

And also they have moved on from a situation that has dragged on for a couple years and I think weighed down on a lot of people in the organization and finally there's some closure to that. And that's actually interesting, Jeremy, because Sean and I, as we were talking about this before you came on, it was like, I don't think Teresanko ever rescinded that trade request. So he made it about just less than two years ago, like 21 months, I believe you wrote. And obviously you and Arthur Staple had some pretty good foresight here because there's a story on the athletic yesterday, I think, about seeing if they

would be a trade fit, the Blues and the Rangers for Vladimir Teresanko, so a hat tip on that one. But like, can you just take us through maybe what it's been like for these last two years, knowing that Teresanko has made that request and it didn't actually, he didn't get his wish until today. Yeah, Haley, a lot of lessons to learn here, one for myself included, because when Teresanko made that trade request and we broke the story at the athletic, you know, I figured it was a guarantee that Teresenko would be gone soon. And it turns out he played 137 more games in a blues uniform. How about that?

But, you know, both sides, I think, remain pretty cordial throughout the whole situation, Doug Armstrong today. And obviously, he's going to say stuff like this on the day that he trades him. But he said that Vladimir Tarasenko was nothing but a professional. The entire time. And so at the time, 21 months ago, Vladimir Tarasenko was disappointed with a couple of things. You know, sources told us then that he was disappointed with the way his two shoulder surgeries were handled, that he didn't get to captaincy. That went to Ryan O'Reilly.

But at the end of the day, guys, Sean and Haley, he realized that he better put his head down and play hockey if he was ever going to get out of St. Louis. And in terms of, did he rescind that trade request? Guess what? I asked him about three times last week, and he said, Ask Doug Armstrong. I think you could have asked him what he was. No. You could have asked him what he was having for dinner, and he would have told you to ask Doug Armstrong, I think, last week.

That's great. But yeah, we probably should ask. I mean, this is, it's a boring question, but what have you seen from Nico Mikula? I know people look at him, and it's like, you know, standard, standard third pair defenseman. He's big. He's physical.

Can skate a little bit. But is there anything you've seen from him that, you know, takes him outside of, you know, the kind of assessments we've seen over the last couple hours? Yeah, Sean, I think that he, can be a good defenseman. I think he can be a middle pair guy. Here's the thing. He's big and physical. And for a while, Rangers fans need to pull up this video. There was a stretch of about three games where I

think he kind of gave a jab to every opponent's star player, including Sidney Crosby. And he was building quite a following with blues fans. And so he's physical. That's number one. Like he will shove it to you. He will. They put him in the top pair with Colton Preco for a stretch. It worked at times. Eventually it fell off and they moved him back down to a second pair, third pair duty. But he can go there in a pinch, but I think he's probably best suited in the NHL as a five, six guy. And you're going to have your lapses. It's not always going to be there. He was a later round draft pick. But I think for the Rangers, not only to come out with Teresenko, but to get a physical D guy in Mikla, I think they'll like him up there. What is the Tarasenko legacy in St. Louis?

because, you know, I think this, it came out a, it's funny. It's, it's like the world's slowest, the last 21 months. And then it seems like we have, we have the lightning bolt strike. And then he's finally out. And it's, it's time to start thinking about legacies and all that. But what is, what is his in St. Louis? How is he going to be remembered by fans there? And, you know, where does he stand, I guess, in the organizational hierarchy over the last 40 or 50 years?

It's so funny. You phrased it that way, like, you know, lightning bolt trade today. because I was just working on my story that should be up at the athletic soon and I wrote that today there was an abrupt trade and I actually had to backspace and delete because you can't write the word abrupt

after 20. I like went back to like correct myself because I was like it's crazy to call it a lighting bolt because we know we just talked about how long the request was on the port for but it did seem like it kind of came out of nowhere so yeah we're scrambling a bit. Yeah I think that's probably because we're expecting it to come closer to March 3rd but in

talking to Doug Armstrong today. He said a couple of things. He said that you don't want to risk injury, which the blues saw firsthand when Tarasenko and O'Reilly went out in the same exact game, December 31st against Minnesota. Tarasenko only missed about three weeks with that hand injury, and then he's back. And then O'Reilly's coming back now from the foot injury, broken foot. But he said, you didn't want to risk injury. And then secondly, the market could shrink. Like what happens if New York goes after Meyer today or Patrick Kane and the Blues Blues out? There's only a select few teams that both would have been interested in Tarasenko and Tarasenko would have approved a trade there. It could have been a situation where the Blues had to hang on to him past the deadline because there just weren't any fits.

So Doug Armstrong three weeks ahead of time had to jump and pull off that trade. You know, going back to his legacy for just a minute, I think it'll be a good one. even after he made the trade request, he was still cheered loudly. He'd get the first star in the game, do the interview with Darren Pang on the bench, and the fans would chant his name. Of course, it's going to be remembered by a Stanley Cup. He's top five among all goal scores in the history of lose. So I think it's going to be a positive one.

You know, did it end great? No. Could Tarcenko have been an even better player in St. Louis, a perennial 40 goal score? I think there's people in St. Louis that would say that. But I think by and large, when they bring him back for the Stanley Cup reunion from the 2019 championship, I think there's going to be a standing ovation. Where's this game at now, JR? Because I know, like, Sean and I again had this conversation when we were talking about it. And I know that he's having a down year production-wise, 10 goals right now. But I think people are talking about Teresanko as someone who hasn't scored 30 goals in like 5, 10 years. He did it last season.

So what is a reasonable expectation of Vladimir Tarasenko in New York? Yeah, this is a guy who had 34 goals and 82 points last year. That was a career high in a six and a career high in points too. That's post three shoulder surgeries in a 28, 29 months span. The guy put up his career high in points. So I think you have to look at that situation and think that this guy can produce. Of course, you have to take into account the numbers this year. Just the 10 goals.

But the Blues haven't played well. It's been a defensive mess. It's been a frustrating year. The team hasn't met expectations. That line that he's been on, Bichnevich and Thomas, Bucenevich has been out a lot, missed a few games with injury.

So, you know, I don't think he's been able to get into a rhythm. Now you put him into a situation with the Rangers. He's going to play with the bread man, one of his best friends, he claims, another Russian. You never know. Panarin actually hates Vladimir Tarzanico. You heard it here first. All right.

If that's what he says, that's what he says. But Tarasenko claims to be friends with him. So I've heard it go both ways, but that's what I hear anyway. All right. So let's move on from this trade and look at some of the ripple effects here, JR. What does this mean for Ryan O'Reilly's future with the St. Louis Blues? And what could this mean for, you know, potential setting the price of what Ryan O'Reilly could cost. Is he more valuable than Teresanco as a center?

I don't know. What do you think? So we had, Haley, we had exclusive with O'Reilly a week or so ago. Yeah. He said that he'd like to remain in St. Louis. Of course, you know, a lot of players say that, especially, you know, a guy wearing a C is going to say that. But I truly believe genuinely that he wants to stay here. But if you're the Blues and you just traded Vladimir Tarasenko and you see the potential of another first round pick coming in for O'Reilly, how do you not trade them?

you're Doug Armstrong. So I think that's going to be the way the Blues view it. That said, we just had O'Reilly at his locker, asked him about it, and he said he's going to keep that behind closed doors with Doug Armstrong. That's what he said in the scrum today. Doug Armstrong did say that he's the captain. I respect them. And I'm also going to keep those talks private. So we'll see. But I think, you know, based on what we've seen the past few years, what we saw today with Tarasenko, O'Reilly could fetch a first round pick. And, you know, if you're the Blues also, you know, do you do this thing halfway? Like, do you keep one guy and trade the other?

It seems like if you're going to go a direction, you're going to make up your mind and fully commit to it. So I would expect that we might see an O'Reilly trade, but I guess the best way for me to say it is I wouldn't be completely shocked if he resigned. The Blues currently have a 6% chance. Sorry, Sean. They currently have a 6% chance at winning the draft lottery. Like in their 25th in the league right now. If they trade both guys and plummet even further, like you have a legitimate Sean at Cotter-Burdard and multiple draft picks,

multiple first-round draft picks. That's hard for me to look at and say like what Ryan O'Reilly brings to the table is more valuable to us. Yeah, it's certainly possible. And then let's not forget the Ivan Barbashev, who is a pretty good player for the Blues. He could be moved to. You're going to be bringing in a couple of defensemen, Scandela, Marco Scandella and Scott Brinovich, who have been out all season long. They're going to be playing soon on the back end.

So yeah, this could go even further sideways, which could put the Blues into that conversation. But, you know, I got to stress, you know, if we're talking about a contract resigning for Ryan O'Reilly in two weeks or two days, days, I just wouldn't rule that out because of all the respect that Doug Armstrong has for Ryan O'Reilly. That's interesting. I wanted to ask about Barbershev specifically. I mean, at the rate we're going with, you know, we're Horvette moving and Tarasenko moving. Like, Barbashov could be one of the bigger names in the forward group by the time the deadline rolls around. Is he, is there any interest in St. Louis in retaining him or is his ticket, is his ticket stamped, you know, for, you know, exit there?

I think he's gone. I think the blues love him as a player. The unfortunate thing is he scored 26 goals and had 60 points last year. And the numbers aren't anywhere close this year, but he's got that on his resume. I think he's going to, you know, want something bigger than what he's making. What is it, 2-6 or thereabouts right now? So could he be a $3 million plus player? Probably so close to three and a half, maybe. And I don't know that the blues are going to go that high. he might be able to get more in the market. So I think he's a player that, again, if they fully commit to this retool, they're not going to be able to pass up the assets that they could get for Ivan Barbershows. What do you think would be a reasonable price for an extension for O'Reilly? Like if you're Doug Armstrong, what's the number, the walkaway number there? Yeah, so we've kind of speculated that here in St. Louis for the past few months. and to me he's a guy who he struggled this year because he was put on a line with Jordan

Cairo. Cairo wasn't playing defense and it just started off bad and it got worse, right? And then he was playing with Josh Levo. It worked, but Josh Levo isn't a top six forward. So the numbers are bad. Like Ryan O'Reilly, what is it today? February 9th and Ryan O'Reilly has six assists. I mean, it's insane.

It's insane. But he's a better player than that. And I think he's going to be a really good complimentary player for a st. the Cup team if indeed that's what happens contract wise he just turned 32 a couple years ago if i'm dog armstrong and somebody said you have to give ryan o'reilly a deal what's your max what's your money things like that i would give them three years and i would give them five million probably not more than that and if you had to give them the extra fourth year to knock the the the the money down from $5 million.

This is all assuming Riley would even think about something like this, then I think you could do something like that. So three to four years, $5 million. If you're the blues, you maybe hope for a little bit less. I'm very curious now. Thanks, J.R. I think that's it. Do we miss anything?

Anything else interesting in St. Louis right now? No, not really. But fill me in on the Panarin. I always, these guys claim their buddies, and I just must have missed the memo. No, Haley, Haley was just, Haley just being a smart ass. Yeah, I'm sorry.

And wondering if you were break, because, like, it is. It's been part of the narrative with them really all afternoon where it's like, oh, yeah, they play junior together, and they've been friends for a long time, and Teresenko tried to convince Panering to sign with St. Louis and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, double check everything.

Yeah. If there's, if there's one thing we know. I wouldn't be a good journalist if I wasn't skeptical of what you're saying. Right, right. No, you're doing your job. You're doing job. I was just wondering if I had to call the editors and rewrite some of my stories. No, no.

No. See, this is an example of like why I appreciate Jara so much and how nice he is. He's like, oh, no, did I make a mistake here? No, I'm just being an ass. Haley, Haley just being a jerk. That's all. Yeah, that's right. And that's why I like you.

And Jeremy Rutherford will never come on the show again because he's like she sucks. I'm sorry for everyone. I ruined it. Anytime. Anytime you could. I feel bad now. Welcome back to the show. You sent, you sent J.R. into as much of a panic as he can experience.

In the anxiety spiral, yes. Yeah. He's too, he's too cool for that. Yeah, lots of good stuff from J.R. He's one of the best. He does a great job covering the blues. And I'm just so intrigued now, though, Ryan O'Reilly. I love that number for O'Reilly that he landed on.

Do you do that? if you're the blues or do you try to get three first round picks this season or another year maybe you're a 2024 pick and you get two years of picking twice in the first round i think something i don't re-sign i don't like i don't like him i doubt to be clear i don't like the idea of the blues signing him to that number but i feel like that's it's a it's a rock and a hard play situation if they're going to do it the number he provided is good i think that's i think under no circumstance should ryan or rather return to the san levy those blows.

They need to commit to whatever the roster looks like moving forward around Robert Thomas and Jordan Kairu, who caught a really funny piece of shrapnel from J.R. in there because he absolutely was not playing defense in the first start. Oh, no. And he's been better. Kyru's been a lot better. He had a pretty tough start. But it's time to, it's time to make the flip, right?

Because why do you? Turn stuff over those guys. Like, why do you resign Ryan O'Reilly? Because you respect him and you like him as a captain? but like what does he provide for your team over the next four years? Five years or five million for three years is like the right number to hit where you're not disrespecting him and you're not throwing dirt on what he's done for the franchise, but it's also not something he say he should say yes too.

Right, because like what's Ryan O'Reilly's market value? Probably more than that. Someone someone's willing to overpay for, you can explain away the season that he's having now. Does that mean he's trending downward probably, he's 32, got a, city miles on him. So. And to be clear, like I'm not,

I'm not a Ryan O'Reilly hater. Like, I think he's a good player. I just think I look at the blues. He's been phenomenal for years, but, you know, he's great. I think you just look at the blues.

He doesn't make sense on that roster. No, like you look at the blues roster as it's currently constructed and what they're going to look like over the next couple years. And that's why I asked the question. Like, maybe I should have asked this JR. But like, what does he

provide over that three, four years span? That is something that the blues need. in that space. Leadership? You just sign him to trade him to shop him in two years. I don't know. It's time to move on from him because like you said,

it would work on a couple different levels. It would make them worse. It would give him a better chance at adding to the, to the badard odds. And again, we need guys to actually change hands at the deadline from a media perspective. So please, please, please. Don't hate, don't yell at me, please fans.

I like Ryan O'Reilly. Yeah, he's been a great player for a long time. He's having a crap season. He's 32 years old, so that changes the caucus a little bit. I could be convinced that he should stay, but I look at the 6% in the way that they could climb up the... They need to do surgery here. They need to move him. They need to try to find a way to move the sods and the Krugues and whatever over the course of the next few months, whether it's the off season or not.

Time to flip stuff. because that roster, as constituted, ain't working no more. Okay, let's move on. You have a little exercise you'd like to do. Harmon Dale. Yeah, I thought Harmon had a piece that I enjoyed on the site today, where he put a panic meter, 2.0, where he's trying to figure out just where teams

that are falling short of expectations maybe stand, where he rates these teams on a scale of 1 to 10 based on their playoff chances and how catastrophic it would be, you know, if they miss. Because there are some underperforming teams. I don't think anybody, you know, at the start of the season, I don't think anybody necessarily expected Florida, even if they were to take a step back to be where they are. Islanders, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So we have an interesting group of teams that are falling short of expectations.

Harmon's assign them, you know, a one to ten score. with one being least concerned, 10 being most. I think there's some interesting stuff wrapped up here. Kaylee, do you think that the Colorado avalanche should be higher than a two on the 1 to 10 scale of worrying here that are I'm going to assess for them?

No. Right. They're fine. No. They're going to get... Do I need to elaborate? No. Cana McCar's out for what?

The next two games? Yeah. And they already made it through probably some of the worst points of the injury. Like they're still waiting for Gabe Landisog. They're not fully healthy yet, but like, I don't, I don't know. I think they're going about this season in a very Tampa Bay lightning-esque way. Like they're just going to click along, click along.

Nobody's talking about us. That's fine. And then, yeah, in the postseason, it's like, oh, shit. Here come the avalanche. I'm not worried at all. Pittsburgh at a four seems maybe a point or two low for me. Because we talked about it. Right?

We talked about it. Yeah. There's good. We talked about it in the first segment. The route for improvement with that roster is really tough to see. I am worried about the Pittsburgh Penguins. You're personally worried about the Pittsburgh Penguins. As a young girl at heart who attended games at Mellon Arena and my little Sydney Cross in Jersey.

Sure. I am concerned. Why? I already explained in the first segment. We're going to be. Yeah, they lack secondary scoring. Why did you just ask me why and then coming up? Because you didn't feel it.

They lacked secondary scoring. And I'm joking. I'm not a Penguins fan anymore. They lack secondary scoring. They lack cap space. And they have a general manager who seems like he doesn't want to trade a first round pick. Flipside is the Kings,

Harmon has been at a five. That seems a point or too high to me because I feel like the expectations in L.A. aren't quite, they're not quite out of hand yet. I think if they make the playoffs and maybe compete in the first round, people will be relatively okay. But they did make the playoffs last year and they were competitive against the Edmondton Oilers. And I think the expectation is that they do that again. It's fair.

You know why? You know what they should do? Get a goalie. Trade for Patrick. I think the... Trade for Thatcher Demko. Yeah. I don't know what happened to that one little bit from last week.

That's going to get disappeared pretty quickly. Yeah. The Vancouver Canucks are trying to find the guy who's, leaking information. Yeah. Who could it be? Where is the mole? Why does this,

they're like, we have no idea how this got out. It's like, okay. Moving on. I think, I can draw, I could,

I could draw a sketch of the, of the, of the believed, let's not do that. Of the perpetrator there. Yeah. I think that is actually

kind of fair for the Kings because I think their five on five play has diminished a little bit and you already spoke about the finishing ability. And like, Phoenix Copley has been a great story this season,

but I don't think you can... The sand is starting to run out on the... I don't think you can just... Assume? Hang your hat on Phoenix Copley and Jonathan Quick. Specifically the way Jonathan Quick was playing early in the season when it was his net, and he lost it to Phoenix Copley. I just think there's some things that need to be addressed in L.A.,

so I actually think that's pretty fair. Yeah. If it's high for me, it's not by much. Islanders are at five and a half. Is this, this is post-Bohorbit? This is post-Horvat? That's dumb, Harmon. I think the islanders are going to make the playoffs.

Are you serious? You're an idiot. I'm not that worried about it. Honestly, I... The reason they should be concerned is the amount that they paid for Horvatt. That's what I'll say. Sure. If they missed the playoffs, then...

Oh shit. His new deal kicks in next year and we are on the outside looking in. I get that. I think that I would say that, like, who do you think is a more, like, who's gonna make the playoffs? The penguins are the islanders?

Penguins. Okay. So you're worried about the islanders then? Like who are, I don't know. I think they're close enough. I don't think this is, see, that this is the thing about the format here. It's not just flat out, like,

if your odds of missing the playoffs are higher, you automatically get a higher rating. This is a panic meter for playoff teams. It's how much these teams should be puckering, right? And I think Pittsburgh should be a lot more concerned at the idea of missing the postseason after locking up the old guys and signing Jeff Carter for one year past this. I think that should be a lot more. I honestly do think that should be more. But that's not what the exercise was from Harmon. Harmon is looking at are they panicking about missing the postseason? Yeah, in Pittsburgh. The idea of Pittsburgh missing the postseason should be more distasteful for them than the Islanders, in my opinion. Right. Yeah, I agree. Washington 6.

I don't think I'm super, I don't know, I don't, I said I think they're going to make the playoffs harm and you're stupid. That was a little over the top. In mean, unnecessarily so. I'm getting hungry. We've been talking for far too long. I'm getting a little hangary. I think the New York Islanders are going to be an intriguing team to watch down the stretch. Like, I'm not panicked about them.

I am intrigued by them because I think they're going to be in the mix, and that is more than I think we thought we would say about this team two weeks ago. They got to add more than another defenseman. All right. Washington is a 6.5 caps, whatever. Why are we that nervous? Minnesota, 6.5. Were that nervous about the wild? I think the wild are at like a 10 because that fan base is the most like overreactive that we've got.

I love them. They're crazy. It's like they win three games in a row. Everything's fine. They lose two in a row. Like the sky's falling. We need to get back to our identity. They're mediocre.

They're okay. They're going to sneak into the playoffs and we'll see what happens. What I think is going to hurt the wild is that the abs, like to me, I think the teams that make the playoffs, from the central, like in the top three central teams are gonna be Dallas, Winnipeg, Colorado. And what might hurt the wild is that they're gonna be in the wild card up against, like an Edmonton, Calgary situation.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You got Vegas at a seven. I feel like that's, the panic meter in Vegas is always high because of the desperation that just kind of leaks through the pores of everyone in that organization. Mark Stone and the Boos. And the Boos.

God knows what else. I want to see what they do if they put Mark Stone on IR. And I want to see what kind of crazy run. What I say? I.R. LTIR. If they have Mark Stone's salary to play with. Who are they going to acquire?

I am very curious. Florida, the reason that this whole story seems like it was done is it a 7.5. Calgary. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Isn't that low for the Panthers? I don't know how much higher it can be, honestly. I think they...

It's trending down. They're playing well a little bit better of late. It's probably not a five alarm fire. Like it felt like it was there a couple weeks ago. Matthew Kachuk is playing great. They've had a pretty good run before the All-Star break. Like that OT win against the Bruins was a pretty big one that they could jump off and, you know, put some consistent, you know, good games together. And I think what we're seeing with the Panthers.

is the like maybe the adjustment to a new system and the adjustment of not having Jonathan Hubert-Hubert-Henzy Weger and this kind of like leads into the flames. Like we keep talking about how there's an adjustment period in Calgary. Like there is one too in Florida. So maybe that's some of what we are seeing at the start of the season. Yeah, they're trending in the right direction, I would say. I just think their reason to panic with the Panthers is if they miss,

they don't have a first round pick. Absolutely. And they still have, you know what? And this is, they still are capped out. Like they're still flying very close to the sun. How are you going to get Anthony Duclair off LTIR? How are you going to activate him? We've been talking about this for weeks.

By trading him? Like what's going to happen? We'll see about that. Anyhow. Calgary is also a 7.5. I think they spiritually kind of belong with the Panthers in the same plane there. That makes sense. They don't have the, they don't have the unprotected first round pick to worry about,

which is good for them. At what point? Yep. Do we have a conversation? Yep. Like a legitimate one about Jonathan Huberto. People have been skirting around it, being like patience, patience, patience, patience.

I didn't even see this. This is how screwed the flames are is that I thought you were going to... I thought you were going to break up Markstrom. They have two players, basically, who people are like, okay, do we need to actually break the glass on this one? I'll say this.

this is a team that started the season with legitimate cup aspirations. I picked them to win it like an idiot. I say this as often as I can because I have to wear that one. There were so many reasons to believe that they were going to be better when it mattered. And they have not been better at all.

If this is what Jacob Markstrom is, there's no point playing out the rest of the season for them. And there may not be a point in, I'll say this. It screws up their plan for the next three or four or five years because that's what the window was. everything was built around that the logic was sound i was on board with it but it all hinged on him being as good as he was last season and he hasn't been close and if that's if this is the guy they're

getting there in deep shit and this is going to be an interesting thing to circle back on because of the way that we looked at the blockbuster deal with kachuk and huberto and weaker and it was just like this isn't to win unless brad tree living locks these guys down and now it's not working and that's not looking like a dub because now those deals haven't even started yet and I think fans are looking at this team and being like god damn it we're stuck in the mushy middle and we can't do a damn thing about it because no one who's going to take Jonathan Huperto on that 10.5 million dollar deal for eight years after playing like this anyways I might be panic that that might be me hitting the panic button too soon no no no

However, I do think that, like, I think people have been skirting around this conversation being like, when's it going to start, once it's it going to start. And I've got a Jack Hahn. He used to work with the, with the Toronto Maple Leafs, and he does lots of good stuff. He's a great follow on Twitter. He has a great piece being like, we've got to break the glass on this. And he kind of puts it at the feet of Daryl Sutter being like, did the flames ruin Jonathan Uberdow? this is not the system and the style in which that guy should be playing. Like you don't want Jonathan Huberto to be a better defensive player.

I'm sorry. I don't care about that. Take the reins off. Take the leash off. That was always what I said to Dom last year. And McKenzie Weger too. Weiger always looked like he had an unlocked offensive potential because he was always next to and being the steady presence beside the offensive guy.

But you saw the quick speed and transition. and you saw the shot, you saw the instincts on when to pinch and when to hold back. But now we're not really seeing that from Weager as much this year because he's playing within like a really locked down defensive system.

The more we talk about this, the more I think the flames need to be number one. Number one on Harmon's list is the Predators at a 9 out of 10, which makes sense. I'm sure this is like, that's what David Poil's like personal panic rating is at because the guy's just,

he's doing his best and thrown. The predators have been, happy to just make the playoffs. And like this might be the year where they finally don't and it's going to show that it's like what they've been doing is not good enough. Like why did they make some of the moves

they made last year? You just made the playoffs. Like what are you doing? Just, uh, it's the problem, the problem signing guys, guys like Matthew Shane need buy high on them. Fall in love with,

with the core of players for the wrong reasons, then lock them in long term. Not, not, Not looking good. Poor UC Soros. Poor, poor, poor UCSah. Juice box, he's over.

Yeah. He's overwork, but I think, I think that that fan base seems like they've, they're frustrated and pissed off. But I, I think that's, I think they've,

I think they've made peace with their lot in life. I don't know if Calgary is there yet. Like, I think there are some fans who are. And I'm not quite there yet. Like, I know I raised these points being like, we're,

that's why I said, we're going to have to have this conversation eventually. And I think Huberto, I mean, Huberto talked today. Like, he knows he needs to be way better. I just wonder, like, how I am not willing to write an entire deal contract person off based on a small-ish sample size. Like, I don't think that Hubertos can be. We're getting past the point where you write off the season.

Maybe not the entirety of the contract. And that's what I mean. I'm not saying, like, Jonathan Huberto is going to, he's watched and he's not going to be good next year. Like it's not good enough right now. This team has, I talked to my radio show with someone today. I was just like, if the flames make the playoffs. And they actually, like, they have a legitimate foothold in the wild card.

Or they make it in the Pacific. What needs to be better? And the guy was like, uh, everything. They're not scoring enough. Their defense is Lucy Goosey. Their goaltending is not good. Everything needs to change. And that's not just Jonathan Hebrador's fault, but he's part of it.

Am I blaming Jacob Markstrom too much? I don't know. I look at him and I'm like, they're just, he hasn't built them out once. It's not the same. It's not the same. He hasn't built him out once. Oh, brother. Anyways.

Put the flames at a 10. That's my, that's my note for Harmon on the, on Panic meter 2.0. Herman, you bifted. Don't say that. I'm just kidding. I don't talk to Harmon enough for this joke to be okay. Mm-hmm. I apologize.

I apologize, Harmon. I don't mean it. I just haven't eaten anything. I think that's, It's a sign that we should be done. I need a little sweet treat. I apologize to Harmon and Jeremy Rutherford and the listeners who were upset with my behavior. And possibly Artemi Panarin and Vladimir Tarasenko from implying that they were enemies, which straight up did.

Danielle, just cut everything that makes me look bad out of the show. And the show is four minutes. Time for a six and a half minute episode. All right. You know what? If that is that is all for today, thanks everyone for listening. If you are not an athletic subscriber, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show to get an annual subscription for $2 a month or 12 months.

I am not a mean person. It was a joke. We'll see everyone next week. Sean doesn't have any more time as Mike is cut. Goodbye.