The Athletic Hockey Show - Was this the best first-round weekend in NHL playoff history?

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

This year’s Stanley Cup playoffs opening round closed with a pair of thrilling Game 7’s, beginning Saturday night with Mikko Rantanen and the Dallas Stars ousting the Colorado Avalanche in stunning fashion and ending Sunday night with the Winnipeg Jets making a miracle comeback to eliminate the St. Louis Blues in double overtime in the third-longest Game 7 in NHL history. Max and Laz break down both games and then close the show with a quick look at all four second-round matchups, including the latest Stanley Cup odds from our friends at BetMGM. Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show in extremely thrilling weekend of hockey. A couple of game sevens. We're definitely going to get to the Colorado, Dallas, Miko Ranton and Bowl in a minute. We're obviously going to set up the second round series. But Las, we are minutes removed from a wild. I think it's the third longest. I saw the third longest game seven in NHL history between the Jets and the Blues.

Winnipeg comes out on top. First reaction here. It was a roller coaster of a game. I know there's some recency bias here, but has there ever been a better 26 hours in the history of the first round of the playoffs than we just witnessed with the Rantanins comeback? And then the jet scoring two goals in the final two minutes, including a goal of what, 1.6 seconds left to save their season?

I mean, this is what we love, right? You know, there's been kind of some low-key, boring series in this. first round. Yes. But holy hell, what a way to end it. This is, I don't even know what to say after watching that jet game. I'm just, I'm genuinely really happy for Winnipeg fans because they've eaten a lot of crap over the years. And, uh, this one's something that they can cherish forever. Well, you could see it on their faces. I mean, the first shot goes into the net, right? And they're down two oh early on, you know, three shots, first three shots, first four shots? I think it was three, Yeah.

First three shots. And it's written all over their faces. The cameras are panning around. It's, oh, my God, the worst fears are coming true. And that's how it looked. I mean, Connor Heldberg was not sharp to start this game. And it looked like this is going to be the story. And what I was amazed by is this happened in the Dallas game, too.

I mean, I was at the U-18 World Championship. So I was not watching that game. And I knew it was too O Colorado late. I pretty much mentally okay. That's Colorado's good of advance. And as they're handing out the, They're getting ready to do the final proceedings of the tournament. I hear someone go, oh, wow, Dallas pulled it out three, two.

I'm like, what? What? And I could only imagine somewhere someone else did the same thing. They hit the exits early. They turn the channel early. And they find out that despite the fact that St. Louis led this game three to one in the final two minutes, it is, it is winnipeg moving on. Yeah, it's funny because we were planning this podcast for whenever the Jets game ended. And like after the first period, I think it was producer Chris is like, well, I guess we'll be recording early tonight.

I write back, yeah, a game seven, a two-goal third-period lead. That's insurmountable, right? Here we are. This is like, I feel like this is like the new NHL, though, isn't it? Like, we didn't have third-period comebacks like this for so long because it was just so difficult to score. And yes, it's more difficult to score in the playoffs than it is in the regular season. But it is, you can score in the NHL now.

You can come back. We see more third-period rallies throughout the regular season. And now we're seeing these just inconceivable comebacks in the playoffs. And it's freaking fantastic. I mean, this is, this is what makes hockey great is that, that unpredictability. And, oh, my God, what, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you had odds, live odds in both of those third periods, and you picked Dallas and Winnipeg, you're doing pretty well right now. Oh, you're having a good night, no doubt.

I'm sure that MGM did have that somewhere. So somebody, maybe, maybe, uh, took advantage. This is what I want to talk about last, because I was fully prepared to come on this show and have to kind of choose my words carefully to talk about what happened with Connor Hallibuck and what happened with the Winnipeg Jets because Hellebuck was not sharp and it looked like the demons were going to bury him don't choose your words I were going to destroy him here's the thing he was going to that that's what I mean by having to choose my words is he wasn't good but I think that the reason that I thought I was what I was preparing for is that the Winnipeg Jets also failed

Connor Hellebuk right they did not do anything to pick him up it's not just a matter of the defense, which was bad. I think the defense on both of those first two St. Louis goals was outright bad, but they had three shots on goal in the first period. And what I was prepared to say here was, and I guess I'll take this to what I'm going to say now, the Winnipeg Jets won this game because they finally realized that they do not have to let their goalie decide it one way or another. They have been the team for years that they win games because of Connor Hellebuck, and then when they lose, they lose games because of Connor Hellebuck. It seemed like sometime in the first intermission.

They came out in the second and they played the rest of the game like a team that went, oh, right, we can decide this game. We can make it a fairly easy night on Connor Hellebuck. And if he makes a saves he's supposed to make, which granted he did not do in the first period. And again, that's what I mean by choosing my words. They have it within their capacity to decide the game without it just being about their goalie. And that's what they did. I thought they were outstanding from the second period on.

Right. I don't think anybody who entered this series thinking that the Jets could win it without Connor Hellabuck being the hero. And Connor Hullabuck was not the hero of this series. He was ordinary at best. He was often very bad. He had flashes of himself. He obviously closed very strong.

I mean, you make it to the midway point of double overtime, not having given up a goal in a while. You're doing pretty well. But he was not the hero here. He was not the reason they won. He would have been a big reason they lost. This is an important, I think you're absolutely right. This is an important win for the identity of the Winnipeg Jets

to know that they're not completely dependent on this one guy. Connor Hellobuck's about to win his third Vesna. He is now an all-time goalie. He is in the Pantheon. He might be on Mount Rushmore someday. And the Jets now knowing that they can win even when he's not on top of his game, it's going to make them a much more, a bigger threat going forward. And it's going to ease that burden on Connor Hullabuck

because he clearly feels the burden of being the Winnipeg Jets only saving grace, right? So the fact that they won despite him, that's got to give him confidence going forward, or God, at least you hope it will. Right. I mean, what it reminds me of, we talked about this with Miko Ranton after the game three game. He gets that assist on the overtime winner. He wins a battle. It's a simple assist.

The assist comes like in his defensive zone at the edge of the defensive. It was a nice play, but yeah, it was not like, you know, wasn't a hero play. No one thinks that's an assist when he makes the play, right? It's a good play for an exit to get the puck out of the zone. It ends up a goal. It's a simple play. It's like, oh, right, if I do the little things, I can score. I can produce.

We can win games. It's the same kind of effect here, right? And I think you can connect a lot of these like kind of under the microscope playoff situations to the same idea. You know, Craig Barubey talks about, oh, there's so much about the core. It's too much about the core. It's a team thing with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, the core goes out and has a really good game. But he was right.

Like part of the problem with these high microscope playoff situations is that when you, when it's supposed to all be about this guy, A, I don't think the rest of the team gives their best because they can, whether consciously or not, it seeps into them. They start to think, oh, we're going to ride or die with Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews, with, you know, Miko Rantonin, with Connor Hellebuck. And the Winnipeg Jets just won this game seven. With Conner Hellabuck being very average at best, if not mediocre, they won it without Mark Schifely, and they won it with five defensemen because their Norris candidate defenseman, Josh Morris, he did not finish the game. Talk about a boost of agency and autonomy into that room. Every guy in there now feels taller, I betcha. Absolutely. And you're 100% right that these guys, you know, like, we kind of think of, I kind of wrote about this a little bit during the Star series is we kind of think of these guys as these invulnerable, impenetrable, like, superheroes where they don't feel the pressure. And that's, you know, oh, they thrive under the spotlight. They all feel the pressure. I talked to Nathan McKinnon. Nathan freaking McKinnon before game six and asked him about the pressure. He goes, dude, we're human. Of course we feel that internal pressure. We know what the expectations are of us. I know what the expectations are of me. And if, we don't come through, you know, there's consequences for that. And they didn't. And there's going to be consequences for it. These guys do feel that pressure. So every time you get a win like this and a difficult win, a character win, a depth win, it is absolutely huge huge huge.

Jets are the president's trophy winners. And they're going to be huge underdogs to the Dallas stars. Huge underdogs. Nobody's going to pick them, especially with Heiskenen probably coming back, with Robertson on the verge of coming back. It's going to be, you know, 80-20 and the athletic staff pick some. sure, which we're all making right now of who's going to win this series. But now the inside that locker room, they're like, screw that. We know we can do this now.

We can do it under difficult circumstances. And the next time they're in difficult circumstances, which there always are in the playoffs, they'll be better equipped to handle it. And the liberation for Hellebuck, right? I mean, going into this series, all of the narratives were the Jets will win this series as long as Connor Hellebock's good enough. That means he has to go into every game thinking if we lose, it's probably going to be my fault. And I'm not saying that that's literally his inner monologue, but there's,

that little bit of voice there. You're a great start. You expect that. I'm sure. Right. Now he's going to go into this next series and everyone's going to be saying, well, they're not going to get it done. You know, it's Dallas. It's the deepest team in the league. You know, we expect, we hope. I'll say we hope. I don't know if we can expect. We hope to see Mero Heiskin and in this series at least. I certainly hope to see him in the last one and it didn't quite get there. I would love to see him in this next series. Pete DeBore expects both Heiskenen and Robertson to play in this series at some point. Right. So I think everybody, like you said, everybody's going to be on Dallas. And now Hellebuck's going to be like,

okay, well, now I can just play my game. And I think that goes a long way. I still am going to pick Dallas, but I think this is going to be active series. And it's a great opportunity for them to build on this, right? I mean, as much as we want to talk about Toronto and, like, they've, they've been out of the first round before. And they just very quickly, we, it was the big, when they exercised the demons talk. They go out pretty quick to Florida a couple years ago. And we're still talking about those demons today. That conversation is not going anywhere, big picture for Hella Book. But there's now another path. And I think that's huge. So tell me, are you confident in Connor Hellowbuck in the second round now?

Has he shown you anything to give you confidence in that besides these kind of esoteric concepts we're talking about? No. But he's one of the best goals he's in the world. And that's the ultimate bottom line that I'm trying to get to is that no, I don't think he's like sent those away for good, right? It's going to be until he puts together a series or two. We used to have these conversations about Sergey Bobrovsky.

And then he just was good enough for long enough that we stopped talking about it. And that's probably a kind of a self-fulfilling thing. When it's not out there anymore, you're not talking about it anymore, right? I think he will calm down a little. And if he has another bad game, it's going to bubble up again. But that's, I think, the key is that he is the best goalie. So if he can just get out of his own way mentally, then he will get there. And that's what it was with Randman.

He needs like a 38 save shutout in game one, right? Just to kind of reset his brain to remember, oh, yeah, that's the guy I am. How I remember. I mean, they'd be great. but what I actually think he needs is to like win a game, win two or three games where he's a very average 900 save percentage goalie and just be like, oh, right, all I got to do is my job. I don't have to make it too big. I don't have to be Superman. I don't have to be the MVP.

I just have to be the goalie. And I think as soon as he gets himself into that mind frame, he'll start turning in the 38 save shutouts just by default. Because that's the thing is he is still very much capable of stealing games, of winning series on his own. For all the talk we're saying that he doesn't have to, he can. He is one of the few guys who's capable of that. So is Jake Ottinger on the other side. So, you know, if he gets that mind right and he does ease up, and he's clearly tense right now, he's clearly feeling the pressure.

If he gets past that, then look out. The Winnipeg Jets, I don't know if people realize this, we're really good this year. This is a good ball club, and there's a lot of damage they can do. So it'd be fun to see. I want to see both these teams at their peaks. I want Heiskenen back. I want Robertson back. I want Ottinger on top of his game.

I want full-blown hello. I want regular season hellabuck in the playoffs. I want Morrissey back. I want Shifley back. I want to see this Titanic clash of two great, great, you know, the Central Division is just in my mind so much better than the other divisions. I'm biased probably because I live in it. But I want to see it at its best because this could be a fantastic series.

The thing is the remaining goalies in the playoffs, only about half the teams left have what feels like certainty in goal, right? You certainly aren't feeling certainty with Edmonton. You know, with Carolina, you're only feeling. feeling it insofar as Freddie Anderson's healthy, and it never feels that certain, right? I'm trying to go around the league real quick in my head. Toronto with Stolar has looked really good, but he's just never done it. And I think Vegas has it in Aden Hill, but certainly Dallas has it and Jake Ottinger.

And that's the scary thing. But Connor Hellebuck, if he can just be Connor Hellebuck, not capital C. I'm not saying be the Vezina winner. I'm saying just be the goalie you are when you show up and you go through your process and all that is perfect. good enough to get them a chance to win. It's just if he can get out of his own way. And I'm very excited for that series. That's going to be in the same way that Dallas, Colorado was the series that everyone

was most excited about in the first round, Dallas Winnipeg is going to be the series everyone's excited about in the second round. Let's talk about the real hero of the game tonight. It was Neil Pionk. To step in the way he did for Morrissey, he played what? I got the minutes up here. It was like 40-something minutes. He was 45 minutes and 46 seconds he played.

He had three points. He had a goal and two assists. He just was on the ice the entire time, just making smart plays, both ends of the ice. Neil Pionk stepped into Winnipeg a legend tonight. Absolutely. It was a warrior performance. Josh Morrissey has been, you know, Winnipeg was a blue line that for years we didn't totally know what to make of because, yeah, we had this Morrissey guy whose profile had been

raising and we were starting to come to believe that he was a legit number one. But everything around it still seemed like, ah, can you win with this blue line? And this year, a lot of those questions have been answered, right? Whether it's Samberg, Pionk gets the extension. And I think there was a little bit of trepidation with the way the early series went for that Pionk extension. Tonight, he really showed like, hey, when the chips are down, I am your guy, extremely valuable. You know, I don't know that I can wrap my head around what that must feel like to play 42 minutes in a game that tense in a game that high stakes. 46 minutes.

Sorry, 46 minutes in a game that high stakes. That is unfathomable to me of how you have the physical but also mental stamina to play pretty mistake-free in that span. Yeah, I mean, I've covered, I think, four or five triple O'Ti games. I covered a quadruple overtime game in Carolina a couple years ago. So sometimes the numbers get up there kind of by default, like they just have to. But when you have like the one guy who's really taking on himself, like I always think back to Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook and Nick Jalmerson, Johnny O'Dooia, when the Hawks only had four defensemen, basically, for the last two rounds of their. 2015 cup run. They were playing 35 minutes a night regularly. It's incredible to watch.

Like, I don't think people realize just how difficult this. And that's what I'm kind of excited about Winnipeg advancing because, you know, Winnipeg, you know, apologies to our Canadian listeners, but in the States, Winnipeg like barely exists. It's just like this little like, you know, fairy tale town somewhere in the middle of Canada and the prairie somewhere, right? I don't feel like they're, how good they are is recognized by your average American hockey fan. And I'm excited for them to see Cole Perfetti. Man, scratch. Watching him the entire playoffs last year, maybe that wasn't the brightest idea. Well, that's where I thought you were going.

When you started talking about the hero of the night, I thought we were going to be going to Cole Perfetti. And that's who I will remember on the list. Absolutely. And we need to talk about him. But I'm excited for the league to get to see guys like Josh Morrissey, if he's okay. And Cole Perfetti and just some of these great players that the Jets have because they just don't exist on American television at all. Nobody gets to see them down here. You have to seek them out.

And I'm excited for them to get on that bigger platform in the second round. This was a proof of concept game for me for Cole Perfetti because I remember going back to his draft year. The report on him was, yeah, very skilled, one of the smartest players, but it's, it's, you know, the skating is like, what are you going to do with this? What is, what can it, what can it allow him to do? What, what, or sorry, what will it prohibit him from doing? What can he do in spite of the skating? And tonight you saw your answer that Cole Profetti is a tough guy. He is a smart guy.

He's a tough guy. He's willing to be in the slot with a stick on the ice with two seconds left in a game seven. I thought he was outstanding tonight. You see him down low. He's really turned himself into a legit, legit, legit top six forward, and he showed tonight that he's clutch to. This is the postseason of guys who can't skate performing well. Look at Dylan Strom.

I think he's leading the entire postseason in points. And he's a guy who for years, like, I can't skate, can't skate, can't play. If you are smart and you see the game at a high level and you can hang with great players, you don't have to skate that fast. You know, Sidney Crosby was never a burner. He wasn't Connor McDavid out there. If you are just really smart and really talented, you can overcome some, you know, bum wheels.

Yeah, absolutely. He was outstanding. Vladislav Nemesnikov, another shout out. He gets a goal, obviously, but there was a couple that it was looking like, oh, he left a couple out there early in that game in the first couple periods. And you're going, oh, he's going to regret these. He ultimately will not regret those. I thought he played outstanding.

I thought he was going to be the guy to get the OT winner. But ultimately, it is nearly. Piyok's winner. Let me ask you this. I'm seeing a lot of people giving, I think it was Bouchnevich hate in the final minute or so. He just flung the puck down at the empty net rather than clear the puck. And I think that led to the tying goal. And I wrote a story earlier this year about empty netters and how the mindset has changed of that. You used to be like, you never iced the puck, right? You always carry it out of the end. But now that's the mentality. You go for the empty netter. You go for the kill shot, right? You can end the game right there.

If you think you can score, you do it, and we see it all the time. So I don't have a problem with what he did, but like, if you're St. Louis right now, there's got to be so many what-ifs to be 1.6 seconds away from the second round after this incredible second half of the season. They were the best team in the NHL from February 1. Highest points percentage, I think they were 24, 5, and 1. Like an incredible run they were on. And they had dreams of this being 2019 all over again. A lot of what-ifs if you're the St. Louis Blues.

Yeah, I mean, I pick him to win this series. coming in. That's how hot they were and that's how worried I was about the jets in the playoffs. So absolutely, St. Louis is going to have what ifs and that's going to be the biggest one. I will say, I tend to agree with you. I think teams seem to like going for the kill now. It's not just about, oh, don't take the chance, whatever. I think it's really hard in that moment to know what the right move is because if you try to stick handle that pock to center ice and you get stripped of it, everyone is on you like, why not just dump it? Right. Like it's a no-win situation.

He put a legit shot on it. Like that thing could have, you know, it was a little too high. Kind of went over the net. If he hits the net, he's a hero, right? It's, oh, what presence to just rip it down the ice, not hesitate. So I'm not going to kill Bouchnavich for that. I'm sure you can hindsight it. I get it.

He had space to skate with it. I also am getting from our producer. I guess that shot from Pionk was actually tipped by a Jets player. I thought I hit a blue, but I guess Adam Laueri tip it. So it's him on the game winner, three assists for Neil Pionk. But yes. I mean, it is a, it's something he's going to replay in his mind. And I have to say, I think just icing the game there, if it goes in the net, is worth that risk.

Two seconds left. I mean, yeah, no, I mean, it's just a ridiculous finale. When a game ends like that, when a regulation ends like that and you, and you blow a lead like that, you're going to, oh, you're going to replay every little thing you did. Oh, what if I just did this? What if, what if this puck didn't get tipped off of this guy? And what if, I mean, the blues were, were victimized by a couple of bad bounces there at the end, the puck going in a. think of Ryan Suter. Like there's so many little things that you're going to regret.

It's just like in the Dallas series, if Dallas had lost that series, Colorado scoring the game winner when Sam Steele flung the puck into Colin Blackwell's chest and it bounced into the net. These are things that happen in hockey and they're really difficult to live with unless you wind up pulling it out in the end. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, there's going to be a lot of them.

And ultimately, I think St. Louis gave it everything. I thought in the second overtime, they were maybe even the better team in the second overtime until that final goal. I don't think they have anything to really hang their head about. It's just it was there and they couldn't close it out. And that's a tough scene. I get it. There's going to be people saying they choked it.

I understand they were by two goals with three minutes left. Sorry, yeah, two of two minutes left. It's a fair argument. But I don't think they have anything to hang their heads about. No, I agree. I mean, when you're losing game seven in double overtime, I mean, man, crap happens sometimes. That's just, that's the way the buck bounce.

crap happened in the other Central Division series too Let's take a quick break We'll come back and talk about that one Can I just say one of my favorite things Is when a very polished professional broadcaster At the peak of his powers At the top of his game Doing a national broadcast

Completely cracks his voice like that That's when you know the good stuff's happening That's McDonald's sweet spot Like sounding like pimply face teen from The Simpsons That's when you know you're at the good stuff man That was such a fun game That's his hallmark You ever heard as Michigan State Michigan punt, the trouble with the snap?

Oh, God, you're right. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I mean, I do that to my wife in the kitchen. We went to Michigan and, you know, I think it stings her more than it stinks me. But, yeah, no, I mean, that's the first I heard that call. So like I told you, I was at the U18 gold medal game. I did not watch a minute of that game. I thought it was in hand for Colorado.

So let's just start here. I need you to explain this to me. What happened that Dallas won this game? They're just this indomitable team. It's hard. It's hard to explain. But, you know, Colorado had just absolute complete control of the game. It wasn't like one of those like, oh, this is a closer to nothing game than it looks.

It was all Colorado. They owned the puck. They had all the scoring, all series. They had a completely dominated play. The analytics of this series are hilarious, considering that, you know, that Dallas went. I mean, Dallas was up to one in the series having led for all of 62 seconds. just this annoying pesky team that just has this, you know, unerring self-belief that they're going to be fine.

They're just going to be fine. One way or another, they're going to be fine. And Miko Ranton, man, he just went thermonuclear these last three games. He had 11 points in the last three games of this series. After all the talk, all the stories that we all wrote about, oh, my God, he's blowing it. I can't believe they gave him $12 million. This is a terrible trade. Look at Marty Natchez is better.

Logan Stankovins better. He had, he set a record in game six. He tied the National League record with four points in a period in game six. And then he did it again in game seven in the third period. I mean, sometimes you tip your cap that that was the best player on the ice. Nathan McKinney was fabulous all series long. But when it mattered most, Miko Ranton said, screw it. I'll do it myself.

Yeah, just a complete 180 from the narratives that we were having as recently as like 10 days ago around Miko Ranton. And that is the beauty of the playoffs as you can change your story. completely in an instant. And that sounds like is what he has done. Remarkable, the players that they were missing, that they won this series at all. But for it to be him and for it to be him against Colorado of all teams, I don't know that there could be a better story in these playoffs

than him being the hero in this fashion with this specific arc where he had struggled and he was quiet. And then he roars back. And in a do or die situation against his former team, he is the hero. I've just been endlessly impressed by Miko Ranton this year. You know, I covered him a little bit in Denver over the years, talked to him a few times, seemed like a good guy, obviously a great player, just like a unique skill set in the modern NHL,

just, you know, they call him the moose for a reason. I got him on the phone when he went to Carolina and things weren't going well, and he had this really kind of like, you know, this open-minded mindset and this 30,000-foot view of things. And then he gets traded to Dallas and he's not scoring. he, I covered that whole series and like the first five days of that series every single day he was available to reporters

every single day a whole bunch of reporters talked to him every single day he was asked the same questions pointed questions why aren't you performing? Why is this so hard? How are you doing? And every single time he answered in the same scrum he would answer the same question five times from five different people and his voice never changed there was never any aggravation. He never rolled his eyes

He never did the Nathan McKinnon thing or he just kind of like shoots a side eye at you. He was just so pleasant and poised and confident. And hey, it's going to be fine, man. It's going to be fine. This is hard for me. He kept saying, you know, I'm getting there. He just knew he was going to be able to do it when it mattered. And for him to actually do it after all that, just endlessly impressive.

So I look at the box score as I'm leaving the arena last night and I see that Colorado took a couple of big penalties there. and the Dallas power play made him pay, and the Johnston one, it looked like they made them pay almost immediately on that. What was the Dallas power plays? I mean, give me the breakdown on. Why was the Dallas power play so lethal there at the end of that game? I mean, just look who's on it.

Even without some of their top guys, that that's what makes the Dallas stars different is they've got nine, 10, 11 forwards that are all worthy of time on the power play. And they just, once they started clicking, once Miko Ranton and Matthew Shane, who had Matthew Shane, had been invisible for most of the series. He makes this beautiful cross-size, cross-crease pass

to set up Johnson for the game winner, just bang, bang. He's like, why aren't they doing this all the time? And they were. They had a very good playoffs. That was what was keeping them afloat. And then you look at the Colorado side, and they got Nathan McKinnon, and they got Cail McCarr.

And their power play was terrible. It was terrible. It was the 14th ranked power play out of 16 playoff teams. scored like a 15% clip. That's the difference in the series. In a seven-game series that basically came down to the very, very end, One team could score on the power play and one team couldn't. Nathan McKinnon was great.

None of his teammates were. Brock Nelson didn't score. Marty Natchez didn't do a whole lot. It was just McKinnon. McCar only had one goal and it was an empty netter. He had something like 70 shot attempts and he had one goal. This is a 30 goal score. And then on the other side, you know, we were talking about Rantin

and we were talking about Dushane and we were talking a little bit about Johnson. They all came through at the end. All of them. All of their big names. Tyler Sagan came through. All of them did. And that's the difference in the ball. game.

You had a quote in your story off this game from McKinnon that, you know, at least in print, I didn't hear him say it live, but I don't know what we're going to do. Yeah, no. Man is that ominous about the offseason to come. The way you heard it in your head is exactly how he said it. You know, this is the second, the second straight year they've lost to the, uh, to the stars. Third straight early playoff exit.

This was supposed to be a dynasty. This is turning into like a you're, you're, well, what's the plan here? you know, Brock Nelson was a bad fit. He's probably not coming back. We all think he's heading to Minnesota, right? Minnesota native or he's going somewhere because this just didn't really work out well for him. And they gave up a lot. That's what I don't understand.

This was the perfect fit. He was the exact kind of player, right? They won when they had cadre, this hard number two center who could bring offense but didn't need the offense to be impactful. Brock Nelson is the perfect guy for that. If he didn't work, who was supposed to work? I don't know. Nas Gadri, that's the guy. Apparently, that's what they're still trying to replace, right? So what happens now? If Nelson doesn't come back, Charlie Coyle was an excellent ad as your third line center. He is a perfect number three. He's a perfect number three. Jack Drury was a perfect ad as a fourth line center.

He's not a number three. So all of a sudden, you have this same hole you've always had to fill. You traded for McKenzie Blackwood and immediately signed him to a five-year extension. And Blackwood was pretty solid in this series. He was great early on. But Jake Ottenham. Gondinger got better as the series went on, and McKenzie Blackwood did not. He got a little more ordinary. So now all of a sudden you've hooked your wagon to him, and maybe they're going to have the same goaltending problems they've had. And here's Nathan McKinnon in his prime, and here's Cal McCar in their prime, and their

biological clocks are ticking like this, and they're still sitting on that one cup when we all thought they were going to, you know, be the next Blackhawks, the next lightning, the next penguins. McKinnon's clearly feeling that because he said, he's like, yeah, I don't know what we're going to do because they're just at a loss. The thought I had tonight as I was getting ready for the show was like, is this going to stop general managers from ever doing again? I mean, there's certain times where you have to let a guy walk, right?

But a guy of Miko Rantanin's caliber at Miko Rantin's age, you very, very rarely see. And obviously, Colorado was worried about it. They traded him. They said, we can't have this happen. And I completely understand the calculus. There's only so much money to go around. But I almost wonder if now in the wake of this, it's just going to hammer home the message that you can never let a guy like Miko Raton and leave your organization in his prime, whether it's by your trading, whether it's by free agency, whatever it might be, you have to hang on. I just have a hard time believing they couldn't resign him, right?

Like all the reports of what they were offering like in the 11s and he winds up signing for 12, you couldn't have closed that gap. Shouldn't there been a little bit more talk? Like, look, we were all hailing Chris McFarland as a genius. What he did this year was incredible. The way he remade this team on the fly midseason. You never see that. He got a number two, a number three and a number four center. He got two new goalies because his goalies were bad.

Like, he traded his superstar and got a guy back who was scoring at a point of game in NACIS. Like, we were all like, this guy's a genius. And now, you know, one really bad third period and one Miko Renton and takeover later, we're like, oh, God, he's really screwed. this team now, hasn't he? That's life as a GM in this league, but I don't know. Like Pierre LeBron, our colleague. We're kind of the same on Tampa, right? I mean, we were all,

I'm frankly horrified for the day that some person on Twitter realizes they can go find that graphic where six of the eight of us pick the lightning to win the Stanley Cup and just dunk all over us. I had them reaching the Stanley Cup final in losing to the Dallas stars. All right. Well, congratulations. I look a little better. I look a little better than our other idiots. But, you know, you get back to to rant and, you know, Pierre LeBron was, he talked to McKinnon earlier in the series and I don't think McKinn is not over this yet. Like that was one of his best friends. It was his linemate for almost a decade. They made sweet music together, right? And I don't, you know, this, I think if anything, it's going to give GMs pause about pissing off their superstar,

right? Because this pissed off Nathan McKinnon, clearly. And that's not the thing you want to be doing. So I mean, you know, the NHL is never going to be the NBA where like the players have a lot of say in how things go. Every GM will tell you the same thing. Players play, managers manage. But maybe there needs to be just a little bit of communication with your, you know, superstar franchise Hall of Fame. Maybe the best player in the world guy. Maybe just a little. Yep.

No, it's a tough situation. I mean, frankly, there is one very obvious fix to this that I think everyone's going to be thinking about, particularly in light of some news that came out Sunday afternoon. maybe I don't know that'll fill some fill some content hours for everybody but it is going failing that it's going to be very interesting to see how the Colorado Avalanche trying to fix it. Well the funny thing is I mean obviously you're

talking about Sidney Crosby. Yeah. The funny thing is you know I wrote a column off the game off game seven and it was centered around McKinnon and all the comments were McKinnon wants to get traded to Pittsburgh. Oh I don't think he wants that Nobody wants that right now. Penguins fans were in that comment section for sure. The amount of the amount of fan casting and like, you know, fan fiction basically happening with Siddy Crosby

and Nathan McKinnon for like seven, eight, nine years now. It's just ridiculous. I mean, I want to see him play together too, frankly, but, you know, that's a wishcasting. It's, it's, the chance of that happening are so slim. Absolutely. Let's go to Dallas here and going forward. And here's the other things I was thinking about, Las. We just saw this arc where different circumstances, one's a trade, the others are injuries. We see a guy come into the this, you know, jump in and have to pick back up and struggle to kind of find his game right away and all the narratives and he comes through. Does that mean anyone's going to give any grace to Miro Hayskin and Jason Robertson if they aren't immediately Mero Hayskin and Jason Robertson?

Well, it's Dallas. Dallas kind of exists kind of like in that Winnipeg world where nobody really gives them that hard of a time. They're not, they're not in the spotlight despite being one of the best teams. They just don't really have that profile. But yeah, I mean, there's no, We talked a lot about how good Winnipeg is, and Winnipeg is really good. They don't have a Nathan McKinn. They just don't. And that's Heiskinin's job, right? That's what he did so well in the playoffs last year was he kind of kept McKinnon at bay.

So I don't think the burden on him, the expectations on him, will be as high as they would have been had he returned against Colorado. But they've been so patient with Heiskenen where he has been skating with the team now for like, I don't know, 10 days. He's been at every morning skate. he's taking some contact in between games. He's just, they are being so cautious. They did not rush him back. And I don't know whether that's like, you know, this is our franchise and we don't want to screw him up further

or if it's like we just believe that this team will be around in the second round. We don't have to rush him back. When he comes back, he's going to be ready. Like he will not be that rusty. He has been on the ice a lot. Robertson is a later ad. Like he just joined practice basically right before game seven. And, you know, at the start of the series,

he was limping along in this giant brace on his right leg. after hurting himself in game 82. He's the one I wouldn't expect as much from, and his playoff history, frankly, isn't all that impressive to begin with. But Heiskenen, he's one of those players where, again, I don't think your casual fan is aware of just what a difference maker, a guy like that can be. He might be one of the two or three best true defensemen in the NHL,

and he can completely control a game and a series if he can get to the top of his game. All right. Well, before we go to the break here, there is one crisis line that we got going into the weekend here. It's obviously the series is settled now, but we got to play it. You guys got to hear this. All right. I'm OMP and I'm in a total panic because the avalanche are screwed. I mean, like, they just can't beat the stars and the stars are so bad. They don't have Nero Heiskin. They don't have, like, any good, they don't got Jason Robertson. Like, the avalates are cooked, and they're down, what, three to two in the series?

Owen, I'm so sorry, man. Owen's going to have a job on, like, Fox Sports One within the week. Here's the thing. Owen turned out to be right. And immediately, man, you know, Owen knew. And I feel worse for Owen than I feel for anybody else. I mean, they won game. They did win the next game six after he sent us that voicemail. They did win. And I think a lot of people thought that game seven was a foregone conclusion after that point.

But he was right. They were cooked. Devastated for you, Owen. Thank you for calling in. Better days are ahead. This is part of being a fan. You know what? This is what hardens you as a fan. This is what makes you. The pain you feel as a child as a sports fan is what keeps you going. It's what drives you as a sports fan. If you were like, you know, nine years old when the Vegas Golden Knights entered the league, you'll never be the kind of fan that the pain and misery of like someone like me, watching 30 years of Islanders hockey was like, right? Like you need the pain. The pain is the fuel.

The beautiful thing in the cycle here is, I don't know how old Owen is, but, you know, he was a few years younger than he is now. You all heard his voice, right? He's a few years younger than he is now when he saw his team peeked a mountain. That makes you a fan, right? And then now what he's going through, These heartbreaks are what's going to make the next time that you see your team raise the cup. That's what's going to make it matter.

That's what's going to make you tear up. It's going to send chills down your spine. It's a beautiful thing. It sucks. It feels horrible. But it will be worth it at some point. And you just got to hang on to that. Not to bring them down, but I was six when the Mets last won the World Series and just assumed by the time I was 45, I would have seen another one.

I'm just saying. They look pretty good this year, Mark. They do look really good. They got swept by the Cardinals today, though. I'm a little upset. I think they'll be all right, and I think the avalanche are going to be all right. But I just wanted to play that for you guys. It really, it got to me.

So let's take a quick break right there. We're going to come back, preview round two. All right, we're back. We're going to obviously go in depth on these series throughout the week, but I wanted to get kind of a top line overview on where you stand going into round two, Mark. Let's start here with the odds from our friends at bet MGM. These are the odds for each team to win the Stanley Cup. And there's a couple of things that really jump out to me right away.

So the betting favorite is the Panthers. right now at plus 425, followed by the hurricanes at plus 475, stars at plus 500, Oilers plus 525, Golden Knights plus 650, Maple Leafs plus 750, Jets plus 900, Capitals plus 1,000. First thing that jumps out to me, holy cow, are the hurricanes high on that list? I don't think I would have told you that the hurricanes are the second most likely team to win the Stanley Cup this year, but I got to think based on that and the placement of the capitals, Vegas really likes the Cains in this series.

Clearly, Vegas is a big fan of Dom's model because the hurricanes, we always, like, I love the hurricanes, I love them as a franchise, I love the way they do things, but we always seem to kind of overrate them. Every year, they're going to win the cup, and they still haven't even won a conference final game yet. Could Carolina win the cup this year? Absolutely. Would I be surprised? Not in the least. It's wide open, wide open year. Yeah, especially in the Eastern Conference right now. It's a really good team. I don't personally trust Freddie Anderson. It's just never been my guy.

And I don't know if they had the finishers without rantan in. So I wouldn't bet on them, but I wouldn't be surprised by them either. I mean, it's a really, really effective club. They do, they play hockey really well. They're a machine. And, you know, you look at some of the guys that they lost a year ago to be where they are now. It is impressive. And I think what it reinforces to me is that the Carolina Hurricanes are one of the few teams that really can just reload.

Like, their system just kind of works. They find the right pieces for it. They plug and play. They can let amazing players. walk out the door and still do that. Brett Pesci is one of the best defensemen in the NHL. I don't know that they missed him all that much this year. No, that's what they do. I mean, it's a credit to Rod Brindamor. It's why I always think that Rod Brindamor deserves more Jack Adams love than he gets. I mean, they're expected to do well. They do well so he doesn't get credit.

But he's doing it on a different kind of budget. He's doing it with a lot of turnover. And like you said, they're a machine. They are plug and play. And that comes down to the coach. And, you know, the front office, obviously what Eric Tulski is doing is in line with what Rod Brindamore wants. They see eye to eye and they're building something together. But the coach deserves a tremendous amount of credit for being able to take just about any player and make them a better player. A lot of this Capitals group is still pretty unproven in the playoffs. So maybe that goes into this too.

But I think it should be a closer series than at least I would get from those odds. But I do like Carolina to come out of it. The other one that really jumped out to me, though, is the Oilers being ahead of Vegas because I go into this really like in Vegas here, mainly because I have no idea what to make of Edmonton and the crease right now. Yeah, I mean, whether it's pickered or whether it's skinner, you can't feel good about it. I think this is, it's just, it comes down to two guys. It's the McDavid dry sidle factor. We just know that those are the two guys who are just capable of just doing it by themselves. We've seen dry saddle doing on one leg a few years ago. We see McDavid do it last year.

they can take over in a way that the way that Rantanin just did for three games, they do it all the time. Like we expect that from them. Like if they don't have 11 points in three games, we're like, what's wrong with Leon Drysidal? Like that's just how good they are. And they've done it in the playoffs now enough times that, you know, they get the benefit of the doubt.

Vegas is a much better team than Edmonton is in my mind. But I kind of understand at the same time. Yeah, I guess if I think about it from this perspective, Aiden Hill also looked pretty human in that first round season. series. And if you told me that, hey, look, Minnesota gave them a ton of trouble because of Boldie and Caprizov and Boldie and Caprizov leveled up twice is what you're going to get with McDavid and Dry Cytle. So in Minnesota, push them. So I could buy that argument that like, hey, the Oilers, Minnesota, I think actually was a deeper team in a lot of ways than Edmonton

was, but the stars are just so strong for the Oilers that maybe that's, maybe that's the difference. I don't know. That's got to be the driving factor. We always talk about how hockey is like the least individual sport where it's all about the team, yada, yada, yada. There are exceptions. And those two guys can do it themselves. They're just two of the best we've ever seen. So do you like Edmonton that, or are you like Vegas? I don't.

I would lean Vegas, but I can understand how, you know, my knowledge of the gambling world isn't, you know, I'm not an expert. But the odds are kind of where the money is expected to go, like where they people look. And I think your casual fan is going to go, oh, I'm going to bet on Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal. It's like why the Cubs are always favorites to win the World Series. There's just a lot of Cubs fans out there. And they're going to throw $10 down to watch on their team.

So this isn't always necessarily a referendum on who's the best team. It's where the money is expected to go from my limited understanding. Yeah, they're trying to limit liabilities a little bit. But at the same time, you give an opportunity. When you put Vegas out there plus $6.50, some smart people are going to go, the fifth best odds to win. That's a nice bet, right? So Vegas has to be at least comfortable with that,

which tells you they're at least comfortable. with the idea of admitting and come in here and do this. Vegas has also seen what Connor McDavid and Leon Dricidal can do. They are not stupid. They are, in fact, they are very smart. They are a lot smarter than us. They are very good at this.

They know what they're doing. How about in that series it's going to start on Monday, and that's Toronto, Florida. I think a lot of people are going to come into this expecting something similar to what we saw two years ago where, yep, DeLie's got out of the first round and they ran into a Florida buzzsaw. Do you think, I mean,

I think we did see a more mature Toronto team this year than we have ever seen. before, is that going to make the result any different this time? I mean, Florida is just built for playoff hockey. I mean, people were wringing their hands about them down the stretch. And I've seen teams like this before where they stop caring about the regular season. I don't mean that negatively. I mean that in a good way where they realize they just don't need to expend the energy.

It doesn't matter what their seed is. It doesn't matter if they have home ice. They know once they get into the playoffs, they're the best team. Florida has attained that level. They've attained hockey nirvana where they just know they're better than everybody. So I certainly lean Florida here. But the difference for Toronto for me this year, and I worry that they can't play the hard game

that Florida wants to play, that they can get physically outmanned here, Anthony Stolars is one of the largest people I've ever seen on the hockey rink. He is so big, it is so hard to score on him that it's just a different mindset. When you've got a goalie, we talked about this earlier in the show,

when you've got a goalie that just calms your nerves a little bit. And Toronto has not had that. And all this run of the Corps 4 and all that, this is the first time I feel like they have a goalie that they really believe in and should really believe in. He's great. And he gives them something that they have not had in these previous attempts at making a run. He does. I've said this on previous episodes.

Fans are probably sick of hearing me say it. I am worried the deeper the playoffs go, just with the workload catching up to him, especially if he's playing long series. And that one went longer than it should have. I thought that was unnecessary tax on Anthony Stollers's body to put. But it is what it is. And I don't know. To me, the Florida Panthers, I was picking whoever came. out of that to win the Stanley Cup. I chose Tampa

and I chose wrong. That only made me more sure of the Florida Panthers. Is holy cow did I think that Tampa was good. And Florida dispatched them way too fast. It's really hard to go three straight deep runs, though. You know, the Blackhawks did it with a game seven conference final

loss in between. Tampa made it back on the third time, but couldn't quite finish the job. This would be Florida's third straight Stanley Cup final run in their second straight Stanley Cup. It's asking a lot in this most random and stupid of sports. It's asking it a whole lot to do it again.

But man, they are built for it. You know, they have built a team that is perfectly, they remind me kind of almost of the Kings from like the 2012, 2014 Kings where they were just made for the playoffs. Like it didn't, they couldn't play their style of play. I can't remember which Kings to play. It might have been Drew Dowdy or someone. Someone asked like, why don't you guys play like this all the time in the playoffs?

He's like, if you tried to play 82 games like this, you would get killed. Like you couldn't do it. And that's Florida. Florida plays a completely. different game in the postseason than they do in the regular season. And they just know how to flip that switch. And they are, they are,

they're just built for this. It's also a key reason why it was so big for them to get out of that first run in five games. It is a taxing style. You get some rest. You can load up, do it again. Obviously,

Matthew Kichuk didn't play late in the season. That's key too. He comes into this fresher than he normally would be. Maybe that alleviates a little bit of the toll that those last two playoff runs have taken. All right. Last series, We obviously talked a lot about the stars and the Jets to begin with.

But is there anything we haven't touched on there that you feel like we need to get out in our little mini previews right now? I don't know. The Jets, the stars have been here before and the Jets have not. That's the biggest difference here, right? The stars are kind of like the Panthers in a lot of ways. Like the stars lost their last seven regular season games and they looked horrible doing it. And everyone, I get down to Dallas and everyone's like, oh, it's a panic. This is the worst team ever in the fans.

Fans are writing them off. And I'm like, no, no, man, I've seen this. This is what good teams do. That's what I'm talking about. Like, I was just talking about with Florida. Good teams shut it down a little bit at the end and conserve their energy. Like, Dallas is so tested. And I know they haven't won anything, but they have played a lot of playoff games in the last several years.

And it's the same group for the most part. And Rantaninan has won it. And Ottinger is just so calm and cool that I just know that they're going to be fine. I don't know what Winnipeg is at the stage. I don't know if they're able to level up. that experience gap, that poise gap, that I think is going to decide the series. That's why Eileen Starrs as much as anything. And we still don't know what the status is going to be for Shifley and Morsi.

As much as we talk in the first segment about, hey, it's great, these guys just learn they can win without them. You still want to have them if you can. They're really good. You want them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, well, a phenomenal second round is on tap. We're going to have a lot more for you as the week goes on. Thanks for listening to this episode of the F. F. F.

hockey show please if you're enjoying the show leave us a rating and a review we'll have a special edition prospect show for you on monday night after the lottery we'll talk to you then