The Athletic Hockey Show - What constitutes a revenge game?, Ovi rolls into Ottawa one goal away from Gordie Howe, DGB’s “middle five middling teams in the middle” power rankings, “The Hamburglar” retires, This Week in Hockey History, listener questions, and more

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

On this week’s Thursday edition of TAHS, Ian and Sean discuss what constitutes a “revenge game” (and end up doing a Jimmy Vesey career retrospective), if you’re a Sens fan attending the game in Ottawa tonight, would you rather see Ovi tie or break Gordie Howe’s goals record or see the Senators win, guys who went “supernova” for a brief period of time in honor of Andrew “Hamburglar” Hammond’s retirement this week, DGB’s “middle five middling teams in the middle” power rankings, if the Florida Panthers moved on from Andrew Brunette too quickly, and the guys close things out with listener questions in the mailbag and This Week in Hockey History.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to it, everybody. It is your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendes, Sean McAdoo with you. Our final Thursday episode before the Christmas break. We got a lot of things to get to. And we want to be transparent here with the listeners. We're recording this late, pretty late on Wednesday night.

You know, what, Haley and Gentilly call their show the Thryday? show. Because they record on Thursdays and it runs on Friday. Is there something catchy we can do with Wednesday, Thursday? I mean, is it, is it just the worst day show or do we need to? I feel like maybe there's another level we need to get to. Yeah, worst day. Yeah, that's exactly. The worst, the worst day show. Yeah. Sorry, how did you guys pronounce that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you heard. You heard us. We said what we said. So if, and we're saying this full disclosure, if something goes, sorry, how did you guys pronounce that. If something goes down in Chicago

Nashville game tonight, we're not going to get to it. We're not going to get to it. Yeah. So if you're, if you got up early because you're like, I really want them to break down that seven to one Nashville win. Seth Jones revenge. Actually, wait, yeah, isn't that a set? Yeah, I guess

Seth Jones revenge. Theoretically it would be. Yeah. Somebody sent that into my mailbag. Like what somebody wrote in and they're like, we need to set some rules around revenge. games. Like what actually is a revenge game? Because somebody, Jimmy Visi had like two assists against the Leafs the other night. And people were like revenge game. And the guy's like, he's played them six times since he left

that team, had no points. And then in game seven, he gets two assists and it's a revenge game. Like, I do feel like we need to start slapping some criteria on that. That might be a column for me someday. But okay, let's talk this out for a second. Yeah, no, I absolutely. Just because it's a column, doesn't mean you go ahead and do the work now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you can just transcribe this later. And then in a month, 100%, yeah. Yeah, revenge.

So it's got to be the player's first game back against the team, you know, preferably in the old arena that he played in, right? Yeah, I feel like first game, and I'll also give like first game back is, you know, if the schedule doesn't line up, if he has to play them at home, I don't mind counting that first game back as a prime revenge game. And then I think a lot of it depends It's got to depend on like the circumstances Around the exit

Like if it was a bad exit If there was you know for whatever reason You know the coach hated you The GM wanted to run you out of town Or something like that Then yeah I could see something like that I mean you got put on waivers or whatever maybe But you know if you just left as a free agent

What are you getting revenge for I, you know, I cover the Ottawa with senators for a living. I'm unfamiliar with these messy departures, you speak. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you're getting at. No, but I think, I agree with you. Like, Eric Carlson came back and played Ottawa this year. It's been whatever, three and a half years since the trade, four years.

Like, it's not a revenge game when he had a couple of his system. It's, you know, if you want to say Carlson haunts his old team, I think that's fair, right? Yeah. Jimmy V.C. came back to haunt the, but, How many teams is Jimmy? Okay. You're not allowed to look this up. You're not allowed to look this up.

How many teams has Jimmy Visi been on? Dude, if I hadn't seen this, I wouldn't have known when Jimmy Visi was on the Leafs. And I'm a Leafs fan. Oh, you, come on. That is, I barely remember it. I remember his dad had something to do with the Leafs at some point. That was part of the reason. He was there for like half a season.

I think he scored three goals. This whole thing was Nashville took him, right? Yeah. And then he never played. And then did he not get traded to another place that he didn't play? Like to Buffalo or something? Buffalo wasn't it? I feel like it might have been.

Didn't he? Did he Buffalo trade for Jimmy V.C.? And then he was like, nope. Not going there either. Right? Yeah. And so, I mean, that can't be a revenge game. You can't refuse to play over a team and then try to claim revenge on them.

Like that's, this thing is at a, it's like the, you know, I've said before, for, I think we're getting carried away with booing players when they come back. Like, again, a good, like the Danny Heatley situation in Ottawa. Yes, absolutely. I mean, that was a situation where, I mean, you rest your vocal cords for a week. If you know you got tickets to that game because you know you got to give it to this game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now, I mean, we're trying to do it for everybody.

You know, again, guys are leaving as like free agents. Like, dude, give me an extension. I'll stay. But, you know, you don't, doesn't get offered. I mean, sometimes, yeah, players. just leave. Players get traded. You know, whatever it is. And yeah, I mean, Eric Carlson being a good example.

What does Eric Carlson need revenge against the senators? They traded him to, you know, a great, at the time was a great team, well-run organization, great weather, great place for his family. And they give him an $11 million extension. Like, what revenge

are you taking against the Iowa senators there? Okay, so our producer, Chris Flannery has jumped into our chat and said, hey, guys, just so you know, Jimmy V.C. did play for Buffalo, but here's the, I was like, but I don't think that's right. So here's the weird thing, okay? All right. So, okay, here's the, and I didn't realize that this episode would devolve into going to hockey reference and walking the listeners through Jimmy VC's timeline. Yeah. But help me out here.

So he, he signs, he's drafted by Nashville. Nashville. Nashville can't sign him. So they're like, okay, we're going to trade him, uh, because we can't sign him. Yeah. They trade him to Buffalo. for a third round pick. The Sabres can't sign him in the window. A few weeks later, he signs with the Rangers. Okay? That's right. Three years later, he's traded by the Rangers to Buffalo.

To Buffalo. For a third round pick. For a third round pick. It's like even Stephen there. I feel like we have established his market value to the Buffalo Sabres. Yeah, I feel like he's a third rounder. Yeah. But it's wild to me that the Jimmy V.C.

Went to Buffalo, couldn't hammer out a deal, and then ended up getting traded there. I don't remember that whole thing. And now that you're saying, as soon as you said he played for the Sabres, and I was like, no, he didn't. And then I thought, you know what? He went back afterwards.

And then he signs with the Leafs, gets picked on waivers halfway through the year. Scored five goals for the Leafs. I'm sorry. My apologies to Jimmy Visi. I said three. He got five goals. Vancouver, New Jersey.

and then back with the Rangers. Yeah. Who clearly are just signed him just so they can get another third round pick from the same. Yeah, they're like, we're going to squeeze out a third rounder. Yeah, just every few years,

the Sabre's just going to try it again. Now, where does that rank on the revenge game? When he goes back to Buffalo, is it still a revenge game now? Is it double revenge? Like, does it, is it double negative? Does it cancel out? It cancels out.

Okay. Yeah, that's weird. And Visi, in his career, has 455 games. but is played for five teams, which is, you know, again, pretty unique. I think you, pretty unique, would it not be to find a guy who's played fewer than 500 games with five,

but he's been with five teams? Not counting goalies, yeah, I don't think you'd see a lot of guys like that. I don't know. Yeah, good point on the goalies. There we go. How much time we have, we have 45 minutes to do on Jimmy Vise? Yeah. You know what?

I'm thinking now we just pull it all later. You guys complained when we said we were going to turn this into an NFL podcast, And so this, you won at hockey, this is what you get. You get. Right here. Exactly. We're a deep dive under Jimmy V.C. Hey, I got to ask you about this because I got to cover this on Thursday night.

The Alex Ovechkin tour will roll in the Ottawa Thursday night. And here's my question for you. And I guess this would have pertained to Detroit fans because Ovechkin rolled into the Motor City Monday, played at Little Caesar's Arena. And I thought, oh, wow. Like Julian and I talked about this on the Monday pod, we thought, this is going to be just lined up perfectly. He's playing Gordy Howe's old team

and this is the Howe families and attendance. You know the hockey gods will find a way to get Ovechkin a goal. Didn't happen. But here's my question for you. So if you're an Ottawa fan and you have a ticket to the game Thursday and you're going,

I'm saying you're physically in the building to watch the game, is your number one wish to see Ovechkin tie slash break Gordy Howe's record? Like you could pick one thing. You're either going to see Gordy Howe have his record tied or broken by Ovechkin, or you're going to see Ottawa win. Now, you could pick one of those things.

What would you pick? Boy, I mean, let me answer your question with a question. Ten years from now, which one of those things would you remember? Would you look back on? I mean, it's definitely to see history, you know, to see. him, I'm looking to say break the record. It's not a record that he's breaking, but the past already had, I mean, you're seeing history. And I've always been a believer that, hey, if you have a chance to see real history, that

that trumps seeing your team win under normal circumstances. Now, obviously, it's the end of the season. If your team's life and death or the playoffs, you know, anything like that. Okay, that tilts the equation a little bit. But in a situation like this, especially Senator's season, going the way that it's going, you know, this has a chance to be one of the most memorable Senator moments of the season. I think if you've got a chance to be there, you've got to want to see that. Now, maybe you don't say it out loud, but to me, you're in the back of your head.

You're taking the goal, aren't you? I think so. I think so. Now, do you think the crowd cheers for him when he ties the, if he ties the around, record on the road. Yeah. Has he get cheered as it happens or maybe when the announcement happens? I think, yeah, I think you...

You cheer for the announcement, right? Yeah, like in the reaction to the... Maybe not in the right at that moment, you know, as the puck's going in, you know, if he's coming in on a breakaway or something, you don't... Maybe you're not cheering him on, but, you know, you still... There's a part of you that wants to see your team stop him, obviously, and, and of course, the best case scenario is he gets to see both. You get to see a bet you can get the past Gordy Howe and you see your team win a game.

But, I mean, you would figure we give him a nice cheer. I don't think it's mandatory. You know, I do think we get a little bit carried away with some of the, you know, sportsman's, and my least favorite word in all of pro sports, classy. You know, it was not, I had no issue with the Hawks fans cheering him when he got the 8th-100th goal. I think we could have maybe done with a little less falling all over ourselves, talk about how great it was that they cheered him on. I mean, cheer him, boom, do whatever.

He's a visiting player. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer. But, I mean, there were, I think maybe it went a little bit overboard on how wonderful the Chicago fans were for cheering him on when he scores against their team. But, you know, maybe that's the little bit of the old school in me. Certainly if it's Pittsburgh. or something like that. No, you don't have to cheer him.

Forget it. He's a rival. You've got your backstory with this guy. Keep it going. I'm not aware of any of that with Ottawa. Like, there's no bad blood between Ottawa and Alexander Ovechkin, is there? I don't think so. I mean, he did score his 500th goal against Ottawa.

Oh, he did. Okay. Yeah. He did. So, you know, maybe he does it here. And I think if you're the PA announcer in Ottawa, you have to mention, like, when Ovechkin scores, you have to say, and I don't know how many goals. he has this year, whatever, 20.

You have to say Washington goals, scorer number eight, Alex Ovechkin, his 21st of the season and 801st of his career, right? To tie gore. Like, just to make sure everybody in the building

is aware of the moment, right? It's a Canadian market, man. They're aware, aren't they? Do they need the announcer to tell you? I don't feel like they necessarily. Yeah. Okay. Maybe they do.

Maybe. But yeah, it's, hey, have you ever been to a game, like a random regular season game, and you saw a history of, of some sort, like 500th goal or like 1,000th point or like just in your time? I'm trying to think, like, off the top of my head, I don't know that I have seen like an actual, like a historical goal.

I've seen so. I was at the Leaf game where Mario Lemieux scored one of those split the defense goals that was showing on. Did he roof it on Alan Bester? I don't even remember who was in, yeah, I had two guys. Yeah. So I was at that game. I was also, speaking to Allen Bester, I was at the Sergio Mameso game. But that was a playoff game.

So I'm expecting to see something. I guess maybe the closest I ever came was I was at opening night in the night that it was, it was the home opener. The Leafs had opened a couple of nights ago. Wendell Clerk had three points in the opener, and then he had five points in the home opener. So he started the season with eight points in his first two games, which was either an NHL record or

certainly a Leafs record. And that was something to see. But no, off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever seen like a really big milestone goal or moment or anything like that, which is, I mean, I'm, like I don't go on the road

like the beat writers do. So it's not like I'm seeing dozens and dozens of games a year, but I'm at enough sporting events. Now that you ask me that. Now I kind of feel like you need to get your ass to Canadian Tire Center on Thursday night. That is maybe my chance. Yeah. This is it.

The last time I was in this situation, I remember somebody asked me like, hey, do you want to go to the senator's game? Do you want to get in the press box for the Senators game tonight? It's the debut of this Austin Matthews kid. And I was like, nah, I don't know. What's going to happen? I don't want to go see some of the rookies. some rookie play his first game. That's a no good.

Had trick in the first period or whatever it was. Four goals. Four goals and the Senators win. There you go. That's the ideal. That's what you're looking for, Senators fans. Okay. Well, look, Chris Flannery, our producer, says he was there when Mark Messier passed Gordy Howe in points.

Really? Okay. There you go. Well, we got to get him to Ottawa then because this is... That's a... Lock it in. Just there with like a big, you know, all of... Gordy Howe's great achievements and you just scratch them off one by one, see them in person.

Flannery's taking down Gordie Howe. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know what? Have you seen one? Like, have you? Yeah. Okay.

So here's the weird thing. You would think, uh, out of all, like, so in the NHL, the answer is no, not, like, I have never seen, I've never been in the building. I could be wrong for this, but I've never been in the building for somebody's 500th goal. Ovechkin did score against Ottawa is 500, but I wasn't, it wasn't even here. It was on the road. and I wasn't at the game. So I've never seen a 500th goal.

I have seen a thousandth point a couple of times. Daniel Alfordson, I think Jeremy Roanick. You know, so I've seen a couple of thousand points, but I don't feel like a thousand, I feel like 500 goals is bigger than 1,000 points, if that makes sense, right? Yeah, and I agree with that, sure. So I don't, I don't think I've ever been in the building

for somebody's 500th. I don't even know, this is wild. I think Danny Heatley's two 50th goals that he scored were on the road, and I wasn't at those games. I don't know that I've ever seen a 50th goal. Isn't that crazy? I've covered this sport for 20 years. Especially when we, well, especially in the era we grew up.

I mean, you might not remember that. You may have seen like Ray Shepard's 50th goal and you're just like, whatever. That doesn't even feel special. Yeah. Yeah. John O'Gradnick, I was there for his 50th. No, you know what? I remember I had tickets.

Pavel Burray was sitting at 49. I grew up in Vancouver. Pavel Burry was sitting at 49. And I was all excited because I had tickets. I'm like, oh, he's got this one game in Hamilton. It was that the year they were doing the neutral site thing. And I was like, oh, this is great. One of the odds he's going to score in the neutral site game.

And sure enough, he gets his 50th in Hamilton. And it comes back. I'm like, come on. So the only, like, I think the most historical thing I've ever seen, but again, I was sent to cover it. is I was there when Barry Bonds broke Henry Aaron's all-time home run. Right, yes. But I was there literally my job was to follow this guy for three and a half weeks

when he was on the cusp of doing it. So I don't think that really counts. I think it's more of a you just happen to be there. It certainly counts as a great moment, but you're right. It's different. It is different. Yeah, it's different. You know what?

I just realized this was a random game. I bought tickets to as a kid. Like I said, grew up in Vancouver. We would often go down to Seattle. to watch Mariners games. And we bought tickets for a Seattle Mariners game in late August of 1990, I want to say. We get to the game and we find out

it would be the first time in Major League Baseball history that a father and son would be in the lineup the same day. Oh, wow. Griffey Senior, Griffey Jr. I was there for that, which I think was pretty cool. And that was just randomly bought the tickets and we're there. It wasn't like we did it for any particular reason.

And just, I think they played Kansas City. I think Kansas City at Bo Jackson at the time too. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know what? That's pretty cool. That seems okay. That seems pretty good.

I feel like the, I'm even trying to think of, you know, Blue J games and stuff like that. You know, honestly, my most historic sporting event I ever went to may have been seeing Michael Jordan play double A baseball. I never saw Michael Jordan play basketball in my life. But I saw him get a hit even. And this was when he was chasing, like he, it wasn't his first. hit, but he didn't have a home run yet. And remember, that was a thing for a while. Was when is Michael Jordan going to get his home run?

And I remember really hoping that he was going to get it that night. And he didn't. But did get a hit and maybe a stolen base too. I don't know. And then we got cut off by his bus in the parking lot and had to watch this cruise ship of a bus go by that he had bought for the team. Was that like the, you know how John Madden used to have that luxury bus? Because that was the thing.

He was playing minorly. It was like, is Jordan actually going to ride the bus? Or is he going to be too good for that? And he did ride the bus, but he bought a bus for the team that went, like, I guess he took one look at the thing that they had and it was like, no, we're going to, we're going to upgrade this one. Okay. So now that I think about it, now I want Ovechkin to get 801 and possibly, I guess,

I guess if I want him to get 801, I want him to get 802 on Thursday. Oh, yeah. Tying it is one thing. I feel like that's the better, that's the better moment. Yeah. Okay. So you know what? Now I'm going to pull for, I'm going to pull for that because then I can be witness to history because I just realized I don't think I've really seen that many kind of historical goals.

Obviously seeing Stanley Cup winning goals, all that. I was there when Crosby scored the golden goal, but that, I don't know. Yeah. It turns a milestone. And even there, like, you know, as a fan, that's going to be one of your most memorable moments ever. But you get tickets to a gold medal game. You know, exactly. You see, like you're going to see something.

Something's going to happen. Something amazing. It's those, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's. the beauty of sports, right? You never, you could be sitting in a, a ballpark with 3,000 fans and and you see a perfect game. It's just yeah, one of those, one of those things and, you know, see that equivalent in hockey. And now I'm thinking about it. I just, I don't feel like I've seen anything like that. I guess I'm not done yet. I got to start going to more, I got to go to more sports. Sorry, dear. Yeah. Listen, I'm telling you, get yourself out to Canadian

Tire Center Thursday night. It's a chance to see history. So I mentioned, Oveching got his 500th goal, against Ottawa, I think it was back in January of 2016. And the goalie that he scored against was Andrew Hammond. And Hammond this week, Sean, announces his retirement from professional hockey. And I think if you were to create the kind of poster boy for, and I don't know if the term would be like flash in the pan, because that seems hard. I don't want to make it seem hard.

It does. You say one hit wonder or anything. And it always sounds like you're. Yeah. Like I don't want to come across as like I'm harping on the guy or like, oh, you got. his 15 minutes of fame, but like, there is something so unique about the career arc of Andrew Hammond, meaning this guy for about his seven-week period was unstoppable, unbeatable. It was, it was like he morphed into Dominic Haschik from like 1999 for seven weeks. And his record was

20 wins, one counted one regulation loss and two regulation, two overtime losses. Imagine a 20 win, one loss, two overtime loss record. Buck 79 goals against, I think of 941, say, percent of whatever, drags out of the playoffs. But my question is, is there a more, like, is there, who else is on this list of like, hey, I had my moment in the sun and it was brief, it was super bright, but it was super brief.

Yeah, I, and, I mean, Contos? Chris Contos? Yeah, he had the big run in the in the playoffs And then he also had the big Do you have one random game where he scored like four goals? He had four goals in the Lightning's first game Their very first game in franchise history

Yeah, it was either their first game or their first home game It was one of the two in franchise history And then if I'm So yeah I mean he he had the big one And then I don't think ever even played again after that After that season there was I'm trying to remember there was a guy who had like one big year

I want to say with the flyers and then there was like some sort of contract dispute and he hurt his shoulder and that and didn't end up playing again. Brian Boucher is the other guy that comes to mind as a guy was... No, but he had he had a good... Yeah. He had a legitimate

journeyman backup goalie type career but he went supernova for was it five straight games that he set the shutout mark? No, but remember he's the guy that in 2000 took the flyers to game seven of the conference final, right? Like, he was pretty good there. Was he the guy? And then he kind of went away.

And then he, then he went to Arizona and had the five straight shutouts, right? Wow. I didn't realize he was the guy like on the Lindrauss Stevens. Yeah. Was he not the goalie? Or tell me if I'm wrong. I think he was, wasn't he? Probably right.

I think he was. I think he was the guy. He like kind of came out of nowhere was really good. Like it's really hard to find these guys like Andrew Hammond that like, like for, and so again, I'm not talking about like the one game wonders. Like the, who's the, who's the guy? Fabian Brunstrom? Remember, it was like, wait on this guy comes over.

Yeah, yeah. And he came over and he had a hat trick in his first game. We're like, oh my God, Fabian Brunstrom is the real. Was it Fabian Brunstrom or am I getting that wrong? Yeah, there was a big bidding war for him. Yeah. And he scored a hat trick. And then, but like, he didn't even sustain it for six weeks or eight weeks or two months or whatever, right?

Yeah. Oh, he was, he was pretty quick. The other kind of category. of this that you sometimes see is the guys who, you know, were adequate players, but they get put on a line with a superstar. And then they have typically, a lot of times it's one big year and then they get ditched off that line. Like Warren Young playing alongside Merrill Lemieux would be an option. I'm just, there's a guy named Scott Buksted who had, And in his second season, he has 43 goals.

He has 43 goals in his second season. And I believe that may have been what like I think he did like the majority of his NHL goals in that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at it. Nine NHL seasons that he played. Parts of nine NHL seasons, he scored over 50% of his career goals in that one year. I'll give you a few more.

Jim Carrey, obviously, as a goaltender. Now, that was two years. He was pretty good for more than a year, wasn't he? Yeah. He had the one, he had two years. He had two years and then absolutely fell in it. Like, I've never seen a decline that was not based on injury or personal issues or anything like that. I mean, he, in his first season,

he was first and second seasons. It was absolutely phenomenal. And then within a few years, it was out of the league. Here's the other guy that'll throw out there. And I know you'll know this name. Do you remember Blaine Locker? The Locket Monster.

There it is. That's why we all remember, right? That is such a great day. And he had like one crazy good year for the Bruins. And he was right up there. So that might be. be another one for goalie. And then the last name I got to mention just because I know people

are saying it right now, and I'm going to mention it to say that this guy was not a one-hame wonder, not a flash in the plan, but Jonathan Chichu, people remember him. As soon as I said, you know, a guy on a line with a good player, it feels like there's this revisionist history that he was

some bum and then got put on a line with Joe Thornton when he came over to San Jose and scored 50 goals and then was never the same again. But he had scored something like 35 goals the year before, which was dead puck era like pre lockout. You know, he was a solid player who then had a career year by all,

you know, absolutely. But I would not consider him somebody that belongs on this list. No, like, like Andrew Hammond was almost like, oh man, why am I blanket? With the Knicks. Remember Jeremy Lynn? Yes. came in and it was like Lynn,

for like this little window of time. You're like, oh, this is crazy. That was Andrew Hammond. Like if people don't know the story, you got to, like Andrew Hammond was this guy. I don't think he was even drafted. He certainly wasn't, you know, it wasn't somebody that was considered a prospect. He had, he was like 25, 26 years old. He wasn't some young kid.

He was 27 that year. And he comes in, you know, just because guys get hurt for the senators. And he comes to a senator's team that literally, we talked about 20 and one. or whatever it was. That's what the senators needed to make the playoffs when Andrew Hammond shows up. I mean, they were a mile out of the playoffs. And it's just this miracle run. It gets them in, I think they end up making the playoffs by two points or whatever it is.

And he did. He played like Hasick. He played like Tim Thomas. He played like whatever, you know, insane level of like Blaine Locker. Steve Penny, the other one that for my childhood that I remember. and he just he was absolutely phenomenal and it was one of the most bizarre situations because it was a great story

but then you're sitting there in the off season so what the hell did they do they have here like is this did they just find the next Tim like Dominic Hassig is what didn't exactly you know he wasn't a really established guy when he suddenly blew up is that who they have is he is he nobody do you make this guy your starter what do you do

and then if I remember right, like he was good the next year. Yeah, yeah, he had 915 save percentage the next year and just had a bunch of injuries. Never got to that level again. I mean, he got hard trophy votes. I think he finished seventh in the Vesna trophy voting with 24 starts.

Think about that. He had 24 starts and he was a top 10 receiver of Vesna votes. Do you remember the end? NHL goalie that once, and I'll look it up just to make sure I've got it, but I feel like he played maybe fewer than 10. No, it's the goaltender in the NHL who finished in the top 10 in heart voting playing 13 games. Like in our lifetime? Sort of an, yeah, sort of an Andrew Hammond situation, except like with half the resume.

Same sort of deal. Came in for a team that needed a goaltender to get hot to make the playoffs. He went 10 and 1 in 13 games, got his team into the playoffs, and ended up finishing 8 in hard voting. What year was this? Well, it was 1988, and this guy, he was a rookie. This is the first 13 games of his career. Sean Burke?

Yeah, with the New Jersey Devils. You remember that wonderful stretch run that they had to make the playoffs for the first time ever in the history of the franchise. They had never made the playoffs before, even going back to their Colorado days, I believe, but certainly as New Jersey. And he comes in and goes 10 and 1 and gets him in the playoffs and finishes.

It gets enough heart love based on 13 games to get into the top 10. Okay, I'm going to ask you something very random here about the 1980. Oh, no, please don't derail today's podcast with something random. I mean. Yeah, please don't.

Don't derail the Jimmy Veezy Andrew Hammond podcast with Michael Jordan's minor league baseball career with something that's off topic. And the Griffey's playing their first game together. Yeah, we've been on point.

Okay. So in 1988, so I was back in, I was living in, my family's living in just outside of Toronto in Oakville. Okay? So I think I was in seventh grade

or whatever I was, eighth grade, whatever, seventh grade, I think, whatever, okay? I have this really random distinct memory. It's the last game of that regular season. And it was on a Sunday.

And for some inexplicable reason, that New Jersey Devils game, and I think they were playing Chicago. Yep. Was on TV in Toronto on, do you remember this? It was the random channel that was also, it would play like Portuguese soap operas, like Channel 4.

Okay. You know what I'm talking about. That, yeah, like that, whatever that channel was. It was a channel, yeah. Like, somehow they locked down the rights of the Simpsons, too, for years. Like, they would play The Simpsons. And then, but the rest of it was, like, in different languages.

That, somehow, that game was on. How was there a Devil's Blackhawks game? It was on. I watched it as a kid. I remember the game, but I. It was on this random channel. I feel like they just, just commandeered the satellite dish and said. Just for you kids out there, back then, like, the local team wasn't on.

Like, Leaf games were on during the week. That game was on. on TV. Listen, if anybody is kind of our age, like you would probably have to be in your early 40s at the, you know, at the youngest to remember this. But just help me out.

Like, does anybody else remember living in the GTA or Ontario and that random Devil's Blackhawks game was on TV? I watched it. I watched John McLean score that goal and I remember thinking like, why is this game on TV?

Like, okay. and it was on. That's amazing. Because I remember the, geez, it was the year before, after there was a year that the Leas were playing the Blackhawks, the last game of season. Todd Gill gave it away. And the Todd Gill gave away. And that game wasn't on in Toronto. I had to listen to that on the radio on my little bright yellow Walkman.

It wasn't on TV. I thought it was on TSN. Well, I didn't have TSA back then. TSN was, you know, that was the Scramble channel. Maybe that was it. Maybe I was listening to it and trying to watch it. watch it on Scramble Vision at the same time. Man, you're the only guy watching that on Scramble Vision in the late 80s.

Your parents busts. What are you doing? It's Todd Gill. Yeah. He gave it away. Yeah. Still defend Todd Gill on that play. He took, did not deserve the heat he took for that one.

Yeah. Was that one of those win in your in deals? That was one. Yeah. They had to win. They had to win to get in. The Leafs had to beat the hawks. So first of all, if they had, if they had, if they had

tied, remember there's still ties back then, then they're not in. So it's not like they had to get a little aggressive. Here's the thing people do not remember about that game. This is me defending Todd Gill. What position did Todd Gill play? I thought he was a defenseman, wasn't he? You thought he was a defenseman, and he was not in that game. He was playing Ford in that game. So now you go back. Why did he have the puck behind his own net? Yeah, why was, why was he the last guy back? And he makes a bad pass and it comes in on, you know, they get the breakaway. It's because the two defensemen just flew the zone again because they were trying to, aggressively get out and and make the,

bake the play. But Todd Gil was playing forward in that game. I defend Todd Gil. And it's not his fault. And there was like a minute left. So, I mean, all he caused him was another minute

to try to win a game. You know, I think like that was amazing. Even that devil's game to get in with John McLean or the Gill giveaway. That's to me why I want to see the play in game. Because that,

that organically came about. I think Flyers Rangers in 2010 was the last time we had that, right, where organically the last game of the year. Or think of that 07, Wade Dublovitz and all of that stuff going on. It was amazing. I love it. I think it's great.

You know what? I think it's great drama in theater. We just gave the absolute best and absolute worst argument for the play in right there because we just described that Todd Gill game, fascinating. You know, absolutely great drama. Amazing. But also, we're talking about a 62 point Leafs team missing the playoffs at the hands of a 64 point Black Hawk's team.

you know what, maybe we were, maybe neither of those teams should have been in the playoffs back then. No, maybe. But I think in the here and now, although that devil's team, that, that 88 Devils team ended up. He went on a run. They went on a run. And not only did they go on a run, win two rounds, but they gave us the, the infamous series with Boston with the, with John Schoenfeld and have another donut and the yellow Sunday and all of that. We don't get any of that. If little Ian Mendez isn't watching John McLean scoring overtime on the Portuguese. channel. It was.

I'm telling you. It was on the, I think they illegally just commandeered the satellite and put it on. It may have been that. This may have been like a hacker's situation where somebody,

you know, punched in the password and, you know. Look, we're talking about teams getting into the playoffs and your latest column this week, or one of your columns this week,

I should say, um, kind of, you do your usual top five, bottom five, right? And, and,

and, and fans are always interested. They're like, my God, please don't. I, Like, as an Ottawa guy who covers the senators every week, I'd be like, here we go.

Are they, where are they? And Ottawa would be in there. But Ottawa has pushed their way into a new stratosphere in your rankings. And that is the, and apologies again, what do you call this? The middling middle? Yeah, I think I called it like the five, Middling middle teams in the middle league, middling around in the middle.

It's the mushy middle, right? This is like who are the mediocre teams in the league right now? You know what? And I think you alluded to, I don't, I should have had your call them up here, but I, because I read it whatever Tuesday or whatever day, it came out Monday or Tuesday. Um, I think you were so accurate. You said something to the extent of there's six really good teams. There's like five or six really bad teams. Yep.

And then like the other kind of 19 or 20 teams or whatever, you know, you end up wanting to call it are all kind of interchangeable. Yeah. Like, like, and like, so when I, when I saw like, oh, you've got the, the, the, the mushroom. middle teams. I'm like, well, I'm for 100% the Buffalo Sabres are going to be like on that list. I'm like, oh, Buffalo's not on the list. I feel like Buffalo is like the poster boy for that list.

Well, because here's the thing. I was going for middle, but also kind of mediocrity. And to me, like the Sabres aren't there. The Sabres are I'm surprised every time I see the Sabres record. Because the Sabres are either in utter disarray or winning 7 to 1 and Tage Thompson's got four more rules. And,

And yet then you look at the standings and they're smack-dap 500. I mean, record could absolutely make the case for the samers. But to me, I mean, the ultimate example of that is St. Louis. I mean, St. Louis is sitting right around 500. But they have never felt like a 500 team. They are either great or terrible at any given time. So I was going more for the teams that just seem almost stuck in that middle. And here's the thing that's interesting to me,

Because, you know, what you describe there, you know, six really good teams, six really bad teams, everyone else is in the middle. That's very typical for the NHL in the cap era, I find. They're just, you know, Gary Bettman loves his parody, but, you know, to me, it's just there's, there's two dozen very average teams it feels like in any given season. And the gap between the top of that list in the bottom is razor thin. Everyone's just kind of bumping around into each other. But I didn't think that was going to be the case this year because of this draft that's coming up because it's so top-heavy. Because we have these franchise-level superstars, Connor Baderd, etc. I thought, well, I mean, this will be the year that the teams that are bad or close to bad are going to embrace it.

We're going to see the big tank battle. And the teams that are in the middle are going to say, you know what, maybe we want to get maybe this isn't the year to sneak into the playoffs. Maybe this is the year to chase those lottery odds. And then there's going to be so many teams tanking that the good teams that aren't tanking are going to rack up a whole bunch of easy points. And we'll see a bunch of 105, 10 point teams at the top of the standings. And that could still happen. But it hasn't yet.

I mean, right now it's six good, six bad. And everyone's in the middle. So of those teams you listed in the middling, kind of the middling of the, of those, teams that the ones are really just personify what you're trying to get at. You've got Washington, you've got Detroit,

you've got Los Angeles, Ottawa, and Florida. So out of those five teams, caps and red wings and kings and senators and, and Panthers, like you could pick one of them

to say, you know what, I think they're going to kind of punch out of this little mushy middle. They're going to make the playoffs. Is it L.A.? I mean, L.A. is is holding down a playoff spot right now. Yeah. And, you know, which you can be pretty mediocre in the NHL and, and hold down a

playoff spot. The thing with the Kings is that, you know, they've, I had a little bit of a recency bias in there too. And, you know, the Kings had, you know, not, they just kind of looked off lately. And, you know, a lot of it's the goaltending. And, geez, Phoenix Copley might be getting ready to write an Andrew Hammond type story. It always seems to be the case with the Kings. They've always got a third string goalie ready to step in and put up great numbers as a backup.

But, man, I mean, I can't believe that we're even talking about the Panthers being in this mix. I didn't think they were going to win another president's trophy or have 120 points. I could not have envisioned a scenario where they weren't in the playoffs, as good as they were last year. And then the move that they made going down and get Matthew Kuchuk. but I'm at the point now where I'm looking for a path for them. And I really am because, you know, people know last year in the playoffs, I had the Panthers as my number one bandwagon team. I thought the team was all sorts of fun.

I don't see a path for them in the, in the Atlantic. And when you look at the teams, they're not cracking the top three. They're not cracking the top three. I don't think. Yeah. I mean, it would take a real collapse by, I mean, Toronto or Tampa. but they're, I mean, Boston, forget about it. So.

But I think Toronto and Tampa are too, they're too talented when healthy. And look, the Leafs have been tested with the, with the health. But they're just simply too talented to have an eight or nine point lead evaporate. I just don't see it. You wouldn't think. I mean, the Panthers are talented enough to have a 12-game win streak. I mean, they could do that. But it's, it's awfully tough.

And you look at the Metro. It looks like the Metro is going to have five playoff teams potentially. They may get both the wild cards, which is where I do look at the capitals and I say, Nicholas Backstrom's coming back, if he's anywhere near

what we're used to for him, and that is no guarantee with the hip problem that he's coming back from, there is no guarantee that he's anything like what we are used to seeing. But if he is, Tom Wilson's coming back, feels like that, you know, maybe the door is more open for them. But, you

Right now, you've got to give it to the Kings. They're at least, they're holding it down. They've got the spot, even though they haven't looked, they haven't looked great the last little while. And you wonder, is there another gear there? Is there another step or they kind of hit the ceiling of what they can be right now? But that ceiling might still be enough to get them into the playoffs, especially if Edmonton and Calgary can't figure it out. Do we need to be a little bit more critical of the Florida Panthers

and not of their off-season move to get Matthew Kachuk. Look, that's a great opportunity to get a player of his caliber and magnitude at his age and whatever. I'm not quibbling with that. I can understand that. My question is, should we be a little, placing a little bit more scrutiny on their decision to walk away from Andrew Brunette as their head coach, in that I know he didn't start the year last year. And I know that Joel Quenville had to be removed essentially from his position.

and, you know, Brunette got put into an unfair position. But he did win the president's trophy in a season in which he coached about 85% of the games. And now he's out of a job? Like, I get it. I know they lost in the playoffs. Jack Adams finalist. I don't know. I won a playoff round, which for the first time in 25 years.

And let me ask you a couple. Refresh my memory. Andrew Burnett went to New Jersey. New Jersey. Took a prominent. How's New Jersey doing this year? Yeah. Okay.

And Paul Maurice, his old team, that was Winnipeg, right? How's Winnipeg doing this year? Yeah. It's just, I like you going full smart. Yeah. Refresh my memory again. Just, just one more question, counselor. Just one, let me just go Colombo on you here.

I said it on the other. Why are you suddenly wearing a trench coat in this segment? I said this on the other podcast today. and you tell me if I'm wrong, okay? Okay. Is right now, and obviously we never know what's behind the scenes and everything we can only judge based on what we're seeing in front of us. The Florida Panthers making the coaching change to Paul Maurice, is that the single worst offseason decision by any team? Well, I guess my point is, does Andrew Brunette not going back to Florida?

like I mean okay so I guess there's two parts to that right there's you're walking away from Brunette but it's it's the same decision to me is it the same decision because well if you're replacing him with trots or somebody you're walking away because you're saying we need the veteran guy this isn't the right guy for us and uh yeah no then yes I think so um I know you could see I mean what else would even be in the in the conversation here for worse I mean that Jack Campbell signing hasn't hasn't worked great, you know, Alex DeBrinkechette hasn't been great in Ottawa, but I, to me, But you know what? Okay.

Those are not. In defensive, Alex Debrinkette is on pace for a career high in points. Yeah. And, okay. As a goal score, it hasn't been there, but that's, you know, I'm picking names here, but it's, yeah, that one's not even in the running. It hasn't worked out maybe as well as a way. Jack Campbell for sure.

Jack Campbell for sure, because they had to go give Stuart Skinner an extension this, this week, right? Yeah. That probably doesn't happen if. And the, Campbell's playing the way that he is. You know, Calgary, Jonathan Eubedo hasn't been great at all, but I mean, they made the best of a bad situation. Yeah, exactly.

They were back into a quarter there. I think it's going from Andrew Burnett to Paul Maris was the biggest downgrade. So far. Well, yeah. You could turn it around. And again, we never know what's going on behind the scenes. This could be the sort of thing where someone's like, if you knew what Paul Maris was doing a whole thing together there, you would change your tune. I acknowledge that completely.

I'm just saying as a fan, I'm sitting on my couch with my Cheeto dust on my chest. I'm just looking at this saying you went from a 120 point team to this. And like I said, if Brunette had gone somewhere else and he was struggling, okay. If, you know, but the fact that he goes to New Jersey, they immediately make this huge leap. Rick Bonas, a hiring that I didn't love, goes into Winnipeg immediately. he takes the same roster, Paul Maurice head, turns it into arguably the best team in that conference. Yeah.

It's, it doesn't look great at all for the Panthers. And again, as we're recording this, we're recording this on Wednesday night as I'm kind of watching some games here. Bottom of my screen, of course, of course, Andrew Brunette's devils are playing the Panthers on Wednesday night. Okay. And the devils have just pulled ahead with about nine minutes to go. I was going to say, I, I can't.

If you tell me it's 9-0,0, Florida or something like that, that's it. Would this be considered a revenge? Is this an Andrew Brunette revenge game? It has to be, right? No, but can assistant coaches have revenge games? Yes, yes. First of all, he's an associate coach. Yes, I think absolutely this.

Normally I would say no, but I would make. I will make an exception. Okay, so then what's the cutoff for? apply specifically to the revenge game committee for like special dispensation and I'm willing to grant it. Okay, because like assistant general managers don't get this, do they? Like if you're an AGM and you move from one team to another, you don't have a revenge game. I don't think so. Well, let me.

What's the other game going on right now, right? Lightning Red Wings. Isn't that the Jeff Blasheel revenge game? I thought it was the Derek Lalonde revenge game. Well, it could be, but is it revenge if you got a promotion? This is confusing. We need like a whole... This is going to be like the old...

We need the committee. The old college football. Yeah. We need the committee. We need the computers and everything. This is like the old, the AP poll spits out one thing. And then the other coaches poll spits out another. Exactly.

Multiple people are claiming that they're, that they're the national champion. We got to figure this out. This is, it's all revenge games everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere we, I guess, yeah, I think so. Let's embrace it. Let's turn the NHL into a tarant. movie. It's just everything is.

Everything is revenge. I don't know. What's going on in the Montreal, Colorado game? There's got to be somebody. I don't know. Art Terry Lackanin is probably like just salivating. Yeah. This is it. He's had this circled on the, do you think it ever bothers the players? You think they're like, you're putting some money on the board tonight. They're like, why did I used to play for that team? I don't even

remember, man. I'm saving money for Christmas here. I don't need to, why do I got to put 500 bucks for the winning goal on the board? Yeah. Hey, listen, we want to point up because we're recording this on Wednesday night, we are not going to have our usual Jesse Granger segment. Granger thing is brought to you by BetMGM, our exclusive betting partner with the Athletics. You know what that means for next show. Jesse Granger revenge segment.

Yeah. There you go. Better bring it, Jesse. You got snubbed. You got snubbed last week. And now you're back. You're back. But listen, let's let's open up the mailbag here. Jay's got a question and a reminder via email you can hit us up at the athletic hockey show at gmail.com

You can also leave us a voicemail at 845445. 8459, but the email to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com Jay says, and we were talking about Ovechkin earlier in the pod.

Guys, I'm pretty confident Ovechkin will pass Wayne Gretzky for the regular season goal crown. But if you add up Ovechkin playoff and regular season,

he's got eight If you do the same thing for Gretzky, he's at over 1,000, at 1,016. Is there any chance that Alex Ovechkin can pass Gretzky for the all-time regular season and playoff goal scoring crown? That's from J. So again, again, the number there is 1,016. That's the number. So now, now Ovechkin would be roughly 215, 200, well, yeah, 216 goals away.

regular season and playoffs. Can he do it? I mean, he could. It's within range. I will say this. And I, this is not a knock on Jay. Because I do think it's an interesting question. It's always fun to kind of find different ways to look at the numbers.

But I understand there's, there's fans out there that this sort of stuff drives them crazy. Because they feel like people are already looking for ways to diminish what Alexander Ovechkin might do in the sense that, you know, that people are, you're, you, God help you, even remember, we did, luckily for us, we, we did the whole Gordyhow discussion about 801, we never said, oh, you know, but then again, Gordyhow also had the WHA. So maybe if we count that too, it's not quite the same. And people feel like if you put qualifiers on it, that you're somehow setting up so that when Alexander Ovechkin does,

break the record. If he does, if he breaks Wayne Gretzky's record, that will somehow throw an asterisk on it or say that, well, that wasn't the real record. Here's some other thing that Gretzky did or what have you. And I'm not trying to do that. The Gretzky record is the record. That's the big one. That's

the one we all know of. But could he get the total? I mean, yeah. And it really doesn't make sense. If you try to explain to a new sports fan or someone who isn't a sports fan, how come you count only the regular Like if the playoffs is what matters, how come that doesn't count on the career totals?

And it's like, it's like, dude, that's just how the, that's how the numbers, the columns sort out on my little spreadsheet. That's, that's really all I can tell you. It's because that's on the back of the hockey cards, you know, next to the bubblegum stain, that's, that's the number that was there. So that's what we went by. I don't have a better answer for you. But that is what we go by.

So that is the record that matters. I'm not in any way attempting to suggest otherwise. But it will be interesting to see, you know, some of the, different ways you can look at, or different lenses to look at this stuff through and how many of those Ovechkin could knock down as well. Well, the tough thing I think for Ovechkin will be like really how many more playoff goals is he going to get? And that's not a knock on him or what I just think that their window is probably, if it's not shut on their fingers, it's awfully close.

So the idea of him playing, having another spring where he gets 20 playoff games and a chance to even just score 10 playoff goals feels slim to me. Like, like, I guess my point is, I think, I think as I look at this, I would say, let's pencil in Ovechkin for 16 more playoff goals in his career. I don't think that's, that's too high or low. I think that's a safe estimate. So, so now he would still need 200 regular season goals. Well, it's a hundred and something, wouldn't it? No, it's because if Jason is 870, 872, including the playoffs, because we're giving Ovechkin his playoff goal.

Oh, geez, yeah, that's right. I forgot. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. He's about 130. 100. Yeah. I just feel like, I mean, it feels unlikely, but I mean.

Yeah, you're right. Have we learned anything about saying, you know, Govetchke, oh, he can't do? I mean, when he got to 500, 600 goals, you could Gretzky ever be in range? And you kind of went, well, maybe, but nah. Well, you know, here we are. And now, now, I will say this. It feels like it's flipped a little bit.

And there are now some people who are acting like he's already broken Grezky's record. And I don't like that either, partly because... Wait, who's saying that? On what grounds? Not, no, no. Not that he actually has broken Gretsky's record, but that it's such a sure thing that now it's like, oh, I mean, yeah, it's like a formality.

Yeah, go ahead. It's just all he has to do. And it's not, and I say that first, because of, you know, my respect for Wayne Gretzky and, you know, him being the guy that I grew up watching and his record, but also because I don't want to diminish if Ovechkin does do. it how, you know, even the, like, we're just throwing another hundred goals on the pile. Like, oh, yeah, I mean, he'll get, he'll get that for sure. I mean, that's, that's still, you know, two full, excellent, you know, elite level years left.

That's, that's no guarantee at all. You know, I know, I know he never gets hurt or anything like that, but, you know, at his age, it's no sure thing. And, you know, I say that, again, like both out of respect for Gretzky, but also for Ovechkin. If he does it, I wanted to feel like it was a big deal the whole way, not something where we all just kind of started shrugging about it before it even happened. One more email here, this one from JT, who says, hey, guys, listening to your pod last week talking about televised events where opponents could get announced and how great that would be. what do you guys think of this if the NHL copied FIFA's World Cup draw, at least for the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs,

might possibly generate some revenue, certainly a lot of opinions. The top eight teams from each conference make the playoffs. Wild card, you don't worry about who's at the top of the division. You just take the eight teams from each conference, put them into a pot, and then the league puts the draw on TV, and you have the draw like it's the World Cup.

Yay or nay, comes in from JT. Man, people would absolutely hate this. It would get people talking. I think that he said it would. We'd have high ratings for us. Lots of opinions, yeah. Might get you a little bit. You would get you good.

But man, I mean, you think Leaf fans are mad that they got to play the lightning after they have a good year. Imagine when you draw the top two teams or whatever. Now, I'm, you draw the Bruins. I'm no soccer guy. I'm no World Cup expert. I'm pretty sure the World Cup draw is not random. It's not like, you know, they don't just take the 32 teams and randomly. You classify them into certain.

There's different slots and groups in that. I mean, you know, you could you could do it where, you know, the top four teams are going to get home ice and then you draw for opponents and something like that. I mean, to me, you're sacrificing competitive integrity for, you know, for something fake there, which is, I mean. Yeah, for ratings, for discussion, for, you know, for buzz. And I'm not, I'm not completely against that idea. Like I always say, the NHL is first and foremost in entertainment league. And if something is adding to entertainment, we should at least consider it. But even for me, this would be, this would be a step too far when you're messing with the playoff seating.

Even given that the way we do the seating right now is, I mean, you could argue that what I just described, you're messing with the competitive integrity for entertainment, that that's what we're doing now because we're trying to force rivalry matchups that we think are more entertaining over potentially what the standings tell us would be a more fair way to set up the matchup. So I don't know.

I don't like it, but maybe I shouldn't dislike it any more than what we have today. Okay, what about this idea? At the end of every season, you do a draw for your divisions for the next year. Now, keeping in mind geographic things, that you're not going to put Toronto and Vancouver in the same division or L.A. and New York.

But maybe you take all the Eastern Conference teams, you take the 16 in the east, you take the 16 in the West, and then you put them into a pot and you randomly draw, right? The Gretzky division, it's going to be these eight teams and the Howe division's going to be these eight teams. And then each year, you kind of change up

your divisional matchups a little bit. Yeah, I mean, that would be interesting. I mean, just, boy, that would be, you know, you hear in soccer, right, to talk about the group of death. That's the Atlantic Division right now. Imagine when you're, imagine you're sitting there and they're pulling out. All right, we got, let's see, Boston. All right, next up, Carolina. Okay, we got Tampa, we got Toronto.

Hey, you're sitting there going, oh, please don't let my team. Right. Be the next one out there, please. But right now, don't you feel like in the Atlantic Division, you're already in the group of death? If you're a Buffalo fan, Ottawa fan, Detroit fan, you're like, Man, I sure wish I was in a different division right now. There is. Granted, the Metro is pretty tough too.

Yeah, I mean, and with the crossover wild card, I mean, as far as making the playoffs, and the schedule isn't that unbalanced as far as we end up playing. So I don't know it's that big a deal. But no, I mean, anything that would get people, get people talking, get some extra content, make our jobs easier. Give us a couple of extra columns to write a year. You know, I don't hate the concept, but I just wonder if there's other ways to do it. Let's wrap up with a little This Week in Hockey History, shall we?

And, you know, I had no idea about this that up until, and now I figured out the exact dates, that the NHL used to actually play games on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. The last time they played a game on Christmas Eve, December 24th, 1972. Last game ever was California and Oakland. last time they ever played on Christmas Day was a year earlier. December 25th, 1971. And again, it was California.

The Golden Seals were playing the L.A. Kings at the old fabulous forum in Inglewood. Stan Gilbertson scores the last ever Christmas Day goal in NHL history in 1971. And so, like, I didn't know this. I looked at NHL.com had a great story about how the Rangers had a 20-year,

20-year, unbeaten streak on Christmas Day. The New York Rangers from like 1920 to 1940 would play on Christmas Day every year. It was like an annual tradition, big deal. So here's my question. I know the NBA has it, and they've got the day to themselves, so to speak. Would you like to see the return of some Christmas Day games, knowing that the league used to do it back in the day? Yeah, I mean, yes, I would as a fan.

I like watching the NHO. I, you know, I wouldn't mind. And for the same reason that it works for the NBA, right? You know, you get the kids are up, you get the presents open, the kids go off, they're playing with their stuff, you're calling relatives, you maybe got the turkey going, and then you sit down and, hey, let's, is there a game on? But knowing that the NHL would get their lunch handed to them by the NBA ratings-wise in the U.S., for sure. and knowing that it means you're pulling some team away from their family, right? You're putting some team, the road team. The home team's got to leave the kids behind and everything and, you know, go to play.

The road team's got to travel. They miss Christmas. I think I'm willing to kind of give this one to the players and say, you know why, you guys go ahead and keep having the few days off, even though personally, I'd love to have a game to flip on. on on Christmas Day maybe not so much Christmas Eve that that that that feels a little word to me but uh well Christmas the NFL's got games on yeah you know what as soon as I said that I'm like I'm gonna be watching like 10 hours of NFL on uh on Saturday so maybe I'm not the one to I'm not only that but like

when my fantasy team loses I'm gonna be like you know all all crazy why is why is dad so cranky on Christmas morning me why is he why is he mumbling about Kirk Cousins got him again or something like that. What's his problem? You mumbling about his cousins. Yeah, no, no. That's right. Yeah, he keeps asking us if we like that. I don't know. You like that. Got it back to the NFL at the very end. That's how we do the ball. Hey, you know what? I talked, let's wrap up this podcast with

this thought because, you know, I think I brought this up with Julian a few weeks ago on the Monday pod. And it was right around American Thanksgiving. This kind of ties in. We're talking about holidays. Okay. So tell me what you think of this idea. And I don't think I talk to you about this. I'm like 99% sure it was Julian, but, but we'll rehash it just because we're talking about holiday stuff. U.S. Thanksgiving is a Thursday and the NHL goes dark, right?

There's no games on Thanksgiving Thursday, right? Why doesn't the league, Sean, do a massive night in Canada on the Thursday? You do Toronto, Montreal. You do Calgary, Edmonton, you do whatever, Vancouver, Winnipeg or whatever, Ottawa, Winnipeg, whatever. Whatever you do. Or just do a double-headed. Battle of Alberta.

And then you do habs and leaves or leaves and sands or whatever it is. Why wouldn't you take the Thursday night? We're not eating turkey. It's not a holiday for us. Why are we in the dark on a random Thursday in November? You know what? I'm with you. I'm with you 100%.

I don't understand that because it's not even like, you know, the NHL doesn't have games on, but it's not like they take a bunch of days off, right? It's not, you know, because I'm thinking, okay, well, there's American players on the Canadian teams, but it's not like they get a chance to go home. No, they get one day. Yeah, why wouldn't you jump on that? The league puts, I think this year on the Wednesday night

before US Thanksgiving, there was 15 games on the Wednesday night. And then on the Friday, there was like a, there was like eight or nine matinee games. Like, why don't you just let the Canadian team, teams have a massive night for ratings on this side of the board. I mean, I can only think of one answer, and it's the only answer that makes sense. I think somewhere Pierre LeBron is pulling strings to keep it from happening so that he can finish watching his cowboys play the Thursday afternoon, the 4 o'clock.

Traditional 4 o'clock. That wouldn't even interfere with the window. The hockey games would start at 7. No, that's usually right around the time that's turning the ball over. Yeah, exactly. Cowboys are going to turn out. Yeah. That's right.

We'd be doing Pierre a favor, if anything. Anyway, next year, the week leading up to U.S. Thanksgiving, let's remember to bang the drum on this. We'll write a column. We'll bring it up. Like, let's make the Thursday night our night in Canada. We should. It's a great idea.

I'm in. I'm on board. Okay, there we go. All right. We'll leave it there. And listen, I want to wish all of our listeners a happy holiday coming up here. you know, we've appreciated all the support here in the last year. And as I'm saying this, I'm like, wait a minute, we have a show next week.

I don't even know. I don't even know. You already said we didn't. So I'm, I don't know. I think we do. I think we do, don't we? Maybe this is where our producer, Chris Flannery, jumps into Slack. Yeah, you should have jumped in.

You idiots, you do have a show. He was fact-checking us on Jimmy Visi, but not on this. Sorry, too late. Hey, I'm pretty sure. Oh, my God. If we sign off the show before they tell us we have a show next week, we don't have to do one. That's right. So there's no point in saying, we can say happy holidays, but we can't say thanks for listening for the whole year because apparently we have the show next Thursday.

Yeah, we do. Listen to the enthusiasm in his voice. Can't wait. Can't wait. It's going to meet Sean McIner Revenge Game next week. Yeah, there we go. All right. We'll leave it there.

Thanks everybody for listening. And as, by the way, as speaking of revenge games, just so we can prove to people that we were. recording this late on Wednesday night, we can tell you. The revenge game is complete. And Andrew Brunette, 4-2, they beat the Panthers in the revenge game. And the wings are up by three goals with 30 seconds left.

That feels safe to me. So there's another revenge game down. The Friday show will get you covered on everything that happened there. All right, we'll leave it there. Thanks for this Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. As always, questions or thoughts, The Athletic Hockey Show at

Gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 845445-8449. You can follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show and right now you can get a one-year subscription to the athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.