The Athletic Hockey Show - What happened to Elias Pettersson?

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Sean, Frank and Sean discuss the nightmare season for Elias Pettersson and the biting comments from his head coach Rick Tocchet, they look at what is going wrong for Mikko Rantanen in Carolina, and if the star forward could be traded again ahead of the deadline, and Seth Jones frustration playing for the Chicago Blackhawks and his hope to be dealt to a contender before March 7th.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? It's the athletic hockey show Wednesday edition. I'm Sean Jatili here with Sean McAndo and Frank Carrado. And boys, Alex Oveskin just scored again. He's 11 goals away from Wayne Greske's record. Oh, another goal. Ten off.

Here we go. That's crazy. I don't know how he scored an empty net goal and a 3-1 loss, but I guess he pulled it off. Dude, I was at Penn's Caps on Saturday night. night because I'm on like I'm on ovechkin duty basically from here on out hoping he would score hoping he would do something they beat the breaks off the penguins they beat him so badly that we were off ovecgen empty net goal watch like in the second period because it was at that point it was six

two or whatever it was so I'm like we're not even going to get a chance we're not even going to get a chance to see this in in all actuality he is what 12 away from break the record 11 from tying it he's got four goals in his last two games oh god I hope he slows down a little bit because I have a ton of work I have to do on it. Are you traveling to every game that this guy is playing from, like, I guess what, when he gets to within three or four, do you have to go to everything? It's going to be more than that. It's going to probably be more like five or six. Wow.

And he was at 16, three days ago. And now he's it 12. And I've had a few things pop up in my personal life over the last few days. So I would rat, I had to take a couple days off. So I would rather he slowed down a little bit. Have you reconciled with yourself that you're going to go on this tour and follow them around? And the record's going to be broken in Pittsburgh? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yes. Just making sure. I've had people check. I've had people like literally reach out and they're like, Gentilly knows it's happening in Pittsburgh right now. I'm like, yeah, I think he does.

I think I made, I made peace with that the day that the schedule came out. Yes. He's okay with it, though, because he's going to go a lot of Marriott Bonvoy. points. He's going to get some airline points and he's going to go on a nice vacation. And you know what? He deserves it after everything, you know, staying with Ovi watching him. You deserve it. Dude, I've never, I've never had seen more anger out of hockey media than on one of my first trips when I casually mentioned that I didn't have a Marriotic like rewards account. And I, I mean, I can't even imagine what I would have had to say to get that reaction. But yeah, if you ever want to like really troll the

sports writer just be like, no, I don't collect any points. I didn't. I didn't for a while. I didn't at the start of my career because I was, I was working at a place that didn't have much of a travel budget. So the priority was to just stay at wherever I could stay. And that led to some really bizarre decisions. I stayed at straight up almost on Skid Row in, in L.A. and not even joking, in L.A. for the, for the 2012 or whenever that was, 23, whenever they played the, whenever, whenever, they, whenever the Kings won the cup last, I was, I was, in hell. And in part of that was like, yeah, I would be like, well, like, why aren't you staying at the, well, like, we're all saying at the,

at the, at the W or whatever. I'm like, or at the, at the J.W. Marriott. I'm like, yeah, I'm at a men's shelter, basically, a few blocks over. I feel like the night the Kings won the cup in 2014, that, like, you and I were out very late. I didn't know you were going back. That was like one of the first times we really hung out. I didn't know you were going back to, like, Axel Rose's old apart from 20 years ago. I walked into the, it was basically like the Hotel Cecil, if anybody's ever seen a documentary on Netflix.

Like, it was bad. Yeah, I went back and had a bowl of, had a bowl of porridge waiting for me in the, in the lobby. It was not good. I remember being 18, 19 years old, finishing my junior hockey.

And then, you know how you finish your season? And then you go on the ATO with the HL team, if they're still playing. And one of the first days, one of the guys was like, the first thing you do is open up a Marriott Rewards account. And every road trip that we go on, you try and go to the front desk and negotiate with them and tell them, listen, I know the team is paying, but can I get credit for the points? Can I get credit for the nights?

And some of these hotels don't know the policy or they're a little loose and it slips along the way. And sure enough, like I somehow developed like platinum status while being a professional hockey player. and just like, you know, I was a healthy scratch a lot. And we'd stay at the Ritz Carlton a lot. And then I was playing for the Belleville senators. And I was living at, you know, a courtyard Marriott. And I was just walking in all the time. Like, hey, I know the team's paying yada, yada, yada, but can I get the nights?

Can I get some points? And then sure enough, like all these years later, rock and platinum status. So I took care of business like in 2013 and it has paid off 12 years later. Frank, he's got lifetime. Did they give you your special little book bag or whatever? No, I'm not lifetime. I'm not lifetime yet because you know what happened? I stopped traveling for a bit, right?

Like I played in Europe for a couple of years and then started working at TSN, but I wasn't traveling. And now I'm traveling. So I'm like, I'm back in the mix. And they're like, hey, you're platinum. All right. Thanks. Okay. Nice to be back.

Mike Russo, Mike Russo between Delta and Marriott. I think, I think he's allowed to fly the plane technically on Delta on Delta on Delta flights. He's got he's got keys to, you know, the 757s. Yeah. I just love how Frankie's story is like, you know, when you're in the NHL and then the season ends and being shot? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've, yeah, very relatable. We get that. Well, you see that all the time, right?

Like the prospect from Sudbury is going to play for the Chicago Wolves and gets in a few games. The old, the old ATO. It's a good time. It's like, I call it hockey vacation back in the day because the weather's a little bit nicer. Chances are you're probably not going to play that much. but you're practicing hockey every day. And you're not a black ace, which is always nice. I thought it was a chance to get some experience,

but apparently it's just a corporate scam. It's a corporate scam where you eat at Chipotle five days a week because you want to bank your per diem to live in the dream. Do you, do they stick your ass in the Cambria suites by the rank in Pittsburgh? Dude, they did it. We stayed at the Marriott out in Cranberry, right by the Lemieux complex. Yeah, you spent six months of your life. If they're great.

We're going to have the full breakdown of Frankis-Cranberry experience in a future episode. But today, we need to talk about a few separate things. We're going to talk about Seth Jones, who's frustrated. I'm sure the Black Ox are too. It seems like he's certainly, certainly a very acquireable commodity at this point. We'll talk about that a little later on. But I want to start, we have Morales-Peterson drama. We have Miko Rantin and stuff that's also bubbled up over the last couple of days.

Fellows, we'll start in Vancouver. Rick Tockech, publicly begging Elias Pedersen to move his legs. It's a little concerning. This is what Tuckett said to Sports Nut on Sunday night, and we're going to rehash it because it's, I think, a jumping off point for a good discussion. We've talked about how he has to move his feet, and he can't double. clutch. I think he's waiting for something. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in his shot, but as soon as he has room, he's got to take it and just got to blast it. I'd rather him just

rip a puck right now. He's not moving his feet. I thought today some shifts he was moving his feet, and it looked like we had some glimpses, but six on five there at the end, it's the same thing. If he just takes three or four strides, I don't know if it's a mental block right now all year, but he's got to move his feet. That is a man who sounds like he's at the end of his rope. What are we thinking about what's going on with one of the biggest names of Vancouver right now? Well, I mean, that's the guy that Rick Tockett has to live and die with right now because J.T. Miller is gone. And this guy takes up so much of your salary cap that you need him to be, like, you need him to be the guy. You need him to be a big time player for you.

And he has been that he was that, you know, in the first half of last season. I do wonder with Pedersen if there's an injury bothering him. I think his agent basically came out and said that he had something over the summer with his knee and he wasn't able to train the same way. But I think also, you know, two things can be true. You can have something bothering you. You also have to be able to work through some discomfort. Like, we don't know what the player is feeling and how difficult that is for him. But when you make that much money, like the leniency towards this type of play kind of becomes less and less.

like a lot is expected of you. And if you can't do it, eventually you just have to say, got to take yourself out of the lineup, got to get yourself right. And like, you take care of business that way. Because if you're out there and you're playing, no one really cares what you're dealing with. They expect you to play at the pace and the level that you're supposed to. And that hasn't been the case for him. And it's not like some magic fix because Miller's gone or you played the four nations. And as far as like the, you know, what you see watching him play, he wasn't the fastest player, but he was elusive. And he could create a little separation by being dynamic.

He's not that right now. And the shot was always good. Like one timer was great. Wrist shot was great. He won't shoot the puck. So if you're Rick Talkett, you're like, I don't know what more, like what more to say, what more to do. You know how to do it.

You've done it in the past. And it is something right now where he just can't do it. And it doesn't look like it's going to fix magically anytime soon. Yeah, because that, like the Rick Talka quote is maybe the most gentle total bearing of a player that I've heard. You know, we've heard coaches really come down on guys. But, you know, to phrase it as well, you know, he's got to move his feet. But to say like he's off by three or four strides, three or four strides is far. That's not, you know, like if I'm three or four strides away from something, I'm pretty close.

But, you know, not Elias Patterson. And I'll say this. Like, if he is hurt, it's time to get that out there. If you're him or his agent or his people, whatever it is. Because the public opinion, let's just say, is not going great, even in Vancouver. I think there were a lot of fans in Vancouver who said, you know what? Clearly this J.T. Miller thing is affecting everything. Make a move.

Pick a guy. And then it'll be okay. And it's not okay. And if I'm, if I'm Pedersen or the people around him, I'm, I, you got to figure something out other than just saying,

you know, I hate talking to the media because, uh, dude, what media, what media is there in Vancouver? Like, especially on the road.

It's not like the old days. It's not the old days, man, where like there's, there's guys that are hard-nosed journalists. They're going to ask the tough questions and hold your feet to the fire. It's not that anymore, man. And it's a lot of rights holders. There are some bloggers that are usually pretty friendly towards the players. Like, the guy that asks the hardest questions

works for TSN. It's Farhan. And Farhan's very fair with all those guys. And he doesn't even travel as much anymore. Like, he's, he's mostly based at home. It's not, it's not the media's fault. I don't know. I don't know why you'd be pointing the finger there. The same media that apparently made up the J.T. Miller feud is now, I guess, to blame for this guy being three or four strides away from where he's supposed to be. I think they need to trade him. I wrote this morning. I think that's where I've landed here. I had a thing this morning where I went through every team and I said, time to make a big move. Okay. And obviously, when you do something like that for every team, some of them, you're saying what you're really thinking. Some of them maybe you got a, you know,

You got to squeeze it. Gin something up. Yeah. I honestly think they've got a week to get out of this. And as I said in the piece, okay, I'll stop short of saying you have to trade them. You have to have some brutally honest conversations over the next week in that organization. Because you are not locked in. It's not like you can't trade the guy after the no movement clause kicks in,

but you lose all the control. You lose all the power. and you've got to figure it out. And even a couple, even before Four Nations, I would have said, well, remember, the no move kicks in July 1st. So they've still got the offseason. They got half the off season to figure it out. And, you know, they could do it that. I'm not sure there's a market in the off season.

If it continues like this for an $11 million player, they've got to figure it out right now. And maybe figuring it out is no, we can fix it or no, you know, there's a way moving forward. but you can't kick the can down the road anymore. Like it's the decision point is now and you got to make it. And it's it. Yeah. Have you guys thought about the domino effect if you trade Elias Pedersen? Because Pedersen's out the door and you're selling him at an all time low.

And skepticism around that player is at an all time high. So I'm not convinced that you're bringing back a centerman, a piece. that keeps you in the mix right now. Like, it's, it's, who's going to, who's going to take that on and say, I'll give you a guy that I know works on my team? And then if you make that trade, you're probably a worst team on paper. What does that do for Quinn Hughes when his contract is up? Does he look at that and say, can't win here?

I'm going to sign somewhere else. And does that send you into a, a full spiral mode? And, and what's going on with that's your Demco, where they just signed, And theoretically his backup to a big contract, we don't know what the injury situation is there. He expressed some frustration earlier in the year. It feels like it's all falling apart in Vancouver. What's the acceptable explanation for what's gone on with Patterson? That's like what I keep coming back to.

It's either he's hurt and not telling people. He's not giving 100% effort. He's just declined as a player to the point like maybe it is, is the skating an issue now in a way that it was in a couple of years. Like, who knows? That's what, that's what concerns me. Like,

is it, is it a fixable thing where even, like, because again, it's February 26th. This is an issue that's started this time last year. We're talking about a guy who's been in the tank in one way or another, relative to his past performance for almost a full calendar year here.

Like, like, like, now, and then you start talking about, you know, Say he turns it on and hits the gas on Feb 27 and, you know, does does his job from now until, now until April or May. Like, how long does it take you to fully rebuild trust in the player?

Because because there's no, because there's no every possible explanation or every possible fix, you know, has been attempted, including trading a pretty, a pretty effective hockey player in J.T. Miller. So, man, I don't. And I can't believe him at this point. because we've talked about this so many times over the last, over the last however many months. A month ago, I'm like, yeah, get rid of Miller. Like, fine. You do what you got to do.

Patterson's the franchise. You signed for a zillion years. You know, he's the most talented guy on the ice. Like, figure out a way to make it work. And we're a month out from the Miller trade and it's like, and not, things look worse. Sean, you said, or Frankie, you said you're trading him at, at his all time low, which is true.

But it's only, his previous all time low, was yesterday. And the all-time low before that was the day before that. So, like, today's all-time low might not be tomorrow's all-time low. And that, and that should scare the hell out of you if you're a Canucks fan. To go back to your original question, I have to think it's an injury thing. I don't believe that a player's game just falls off a cliff that much. And if I looked at some of the things that have happened in Vancouver, like Thatcher Demko last year obviously had an injury in the playoffs took the whole summer and this injury he wasn't ready for the start of the season. Now, part of that is the nature of the injury. Who knows how it was dealt with. But, you know,

that's one situation where you're like, okay, they had some time to get him ready and he wasn't ready. Do you remember the Tanner Pearson thing in Vancouver where he was hurt and then Quinn Hughes was critical of the team and how they handled things? And that just never happened. You never hear a player critical of, you know, medical staff towards another player. That kind of stuff stays in-house. Now, Pedersen, we've kind of heard rumblings that he's maybe dealing with something and it hasn't healed or they haven't given it the time. And there's other cases. Like, Quinn Hughes has been playing with something.

Like, they're showing pictures of him walking into games and he's got like some wrist wrap. This is before the four nations. I just, I guess it's not, it's not going to turn around for Pedersen tomorrow. It's not going to turn around for Pedersen probably this year until, if it's an injury, until he takes the time to get it sorted out, get the resources. And that's why with Pedersen, I would lean more towards keeping him. Because if you trade him at an all-time loan and he goes to, let's say, Carolina or, you know, wherever, teams that have had interest in him in the past.

and they get it sorted out, it's like, oh man, you're telling me, we couldn't figure that out, but at the same time, at the same time, at the same time,

I've seen Leon Drysidal be a beast in the playoffs with a high ankle spring. Like, we have just seen so many examples. Now some cadre played in the playoffs for Colorado with a busted wrist or whatever it was, and he was unbelievable.

Like, there's just so many examples of great players that can play through, I'm not even talking like those massive, you know, destructive injuries. Just minor aches and pains. Guys do it night to night basis. You're never going to feel 100%. It's somewhere in the middle there for him.

If your game is such and your skating is such where a nagging injury that isn't enough to push you out of the lineup drops you down to a point where you're skating at an HL level, out there. Blame what you want. Who knows about Vancouver's medical staff? Like that could all be true. But if that's what in Pedersen skating has always been a question mark to some degree.

If that's if that's what takes him down to this level and he's a player who you've who you've dedicated a ton of money and a ton of years to, man, I just, I feel like that's, I feel like that's a guy I want to get away from. And I'm like, whatever, go in rehab and kill it somewhere else. But like, if this is, if this is what he looks like when he's operating at 80% or whatever, a level, a level that's high enough to stay in the lineup, at that money in, in term, I just, I don't, I don't, I don't think I want it. There is a part of me that that thinks this isn't physical, that it's mental. and you know when you look at between the between the stuff with Miller

between the pressure between the you know how much criticism he took for the playoffs between the pressure of having the new contract and now this you know all this stuff about all the media is being so tough on him like it makes me wonder if he's you know I don't know I don't want to say mentally broken

but if that's more the issue and that's especially tough if you're Vancouver because, you know, even putting aside that, hey, this is, you know, this is a teammate, this is a guy you invested in, you care about him, you want to make sure he's okay, that is a situation where maybe at that point you say it just can't be fixed here, but we send him somewhere else. He gets the fresh start and suddenly the old Pedersen's back. And then everybody, you know, people like us are ripping on the Canucks going,

what a bunch of dummies. How did they trade this guy? Whoever thought that was a good idea? It's fire Patrick Alvin and Jim Rutherford and Rick Tocke. Right, because they let a guy like that get away. It's a brutal situation. It's a bad one. And, you know, the thing is the teams that in theory should be, I would argue,

taking a hard look at this guy are maybe not the teams he'd be interested in going to, which again means you've got to get it done before that no move kicks in. Well, let's put him on another team. Like, let's finish out this segment by, by, by sending him somewhere where we think makes sense for both sides and in the player in particular. Where do we, where do we want Elias Pedersen to play the next seven years of his career? Buffalo,

not Carolina. I just, I just saw Miko ranting in last night. And I'm like, ooh, that system, how they play, it doesn't exactly fit what he's done in Colorado.

And then I'm trying to picture Elias Pedersen there. And I'm like, that doesn't fit Elias Pedersen either. And then I'm thinking, okay, well, if he goes to a team like Buffalo, not that there's not pressure there, but he's, I don't know, he's going to be the guy that they look to in a lot of ways. He won't have the Vancouver media, quote unquote, pressure cooker to deal with. And they need, like, they could always use a skill influx there.

I don't know. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but. I was, I would have said Buffalo up. until a couple weeks ago, and now my concern is, again, if this is partly in his head, sending him to the perpetual train wreck of the Buffalo Sabres, I'm not sure that works. I think it works great for Buffalo. I would, if I'm Kevin Adams, I'm on the phone every day. Yes.

This is your one chance to get a guy like this. Nobody's coming to sign in Vancouver, no one's way, or in Buffalo, rather, no one's going to wave a no tray to go there. So it's this guy. I would say that the two teams that jump out to me is one is Philadelphia. who have cleared some room and have basically said they, they're looking to add a top center. Well, I mean, again, here's your one chance.

The other one is Columbus. You don't want to deal with the media. You don't want to deal with the big spotlight. Okay. Here's a situation where maybe you just go, you go to a fan base that's going to appreciate you. They're going to love anything you do. And then you don't have to worry about that,

the spotlight being as bright. Could you imagine, could you imagine Patterson goes to Philadelphia? and he's got to deal with courts on a day to day. Like, Rick Talkett, he's probably a little more reasonable than Torz is going to be with you.

And like, like, you know, Jonesy and in Breyer, those guys are, you know, they're pretty with it. Like, I think they would get a,

a pretty good scouting report from talk as far as what's going on there. And I don't know how willing they would be, you know, just based on the communication lines between those guys. I don't know. No, it'd be interesting, though.

Philadelphia fans notoriously chill and patient with their... I would want one of those Amazon behind the scenes things of the first time Pedersen walks in and just following him every day with Torts, every encounter. You got to look up what Torts said about Kuzmanko a couple days ago. It was the most like backhanded compliment I've ever seen in my life. Like he's cooking at an incredible level right now. I'm saying San Patterson to Winnipeg. Jets need him.

Chets need skill. They always need skill. Find a way to make it happen. Doesn't have to worry about that pesky, no trade clause for a couple more months. Make it happen. Frankie brought up Ranton in a couple minutes ago. He's going to be a big part of our second segment,

along with Blackhawks defenseman Seth Jones, who, spoiler alert, fellas, he sounds like he's about at the end of his rope. That's coming up in a second. Frankie, I love you saying, and it doesn't fit in Carolina's,

in Carolina's system. I want to hear exactly what that means as a dumb guy. Dude. So I had eyes on it. I had eyes on it last night and I was calling the game Montreal versus Carolina. And most of the time, like when I'm calling a game,

first of all, I have to identify players and kind of see, okay, why did this play happen? Why did that play happen? But the intrigue on Ranton right now is through the route. So I'm kind of like ISO watching him more than I normally would. So I had our friends at Sport Logic look something up for me before the game because Nathan McKinnon,

superior player, attacking off the rush. Now, Rantan doesn't have that anymore, but what does he have in Carolina? And so Nathan McKinnon was number one at generating rush chances and number one at rush pass attempts among all players. So then I asked, okay, what's the centerman rank for Sebastian Ajo? Sebastian Ajo was 13th at rush chances. And 14th at rush pass attempts. So it's really not bad. It's still quite good, but it's not McKinnon. And Carolina is a dump the puck in, retrieve it, forecheck it, play in the offensive

zone team. So it's different. Like he doesn't have McKinnon and the style of game just doesn't lead to, you know, that many chances. And so actually Rod Brindamore last night moved Ajo away from Rentonan, and he put him with Svetich Nican. off and Roslovick. And Roslovick is as a rush player.

Like he's, you know, he can attack off the rush. It's a little bit different than what Aho does. But still watching Ranton and I'm like, there goes that puck dumped in and Montreal breaks it out. And they got it at the red line again and it's dumped in. And Montreal,

like it's, it's just so different than what he's used to. He's been so deeply entrenched in Colorado for so long. And it looked like he's having a hard time adjusting to it. And that's the kind of thing. if you're Miko Ranton, you know, time is of the essence,

I think, for the Carolina Hurricanes here. They have to sell him on resigning with them for the long term based on what? Of a couple weeks of games that haven't gone all that great

in a style of play that you'd imagine if nothing else, he needs time adjusting to, right? And some of the... Well, I was going to say when they made this trade,

of course, you know, came significantly before the deadline. And that was, in theory, part of it was, hey, we're going to give him time to settle in, take a look around Carolina, you know, get all that sort of stuff. He'll figure out whether he likes it here. He probably will. Then he resigns great. Everyone's happy. Some of the messaging that's come out of this. And, you know, obviously it's, you know, sources say and, you know, people indicate and that sort of thing. But, you know, that like, oh, he's barely even had a chance. He was, four nations. He hasn't really had a chance to settle in. He's not really sure about the

name. Hold on a second. Like, we're now down to a week before the deadline. Carolina's got to make a call here. And it's, and the call can be, we just ride it out. We're going to take us, you know, I mean, if, if you're going to trade him, who are you going to trade him to a contender? Well, the contender is going to, uh, Carolina's a contender. So maybe they just hold on to him. But again, like the times of the essence here. And maybe he's just not interested. Maybe that's his, maybe he is just not interested in signing anywhere and just say, I'm going to, you know what, I'm a few months away from hitting the market and being one of the biggest UFAs to ever hit the open market in the NHL.

Let's do it. Let's see how it goes. That's bad news if you're Carolina. Listen, someone's still going to pay him. Regardless of how it goes in Carolina, there is going to be a team that says we are going to pay him. his asking price because we're desperate and it's a watered down league and you just don't get a chance to sign a player like this very often. But there's a few things that come to mind for me. Number one, producer Jeff chiming in, which I appreciate. His best friend is Sebastian Aho. So you would think that that would help him get more accustomed to life in Carolina playing there.

But there's still like a feeling out process. The shooting percentages is worth noting. Like as of last night, his shooting percentage with Carolina was four and a half percent. It's a small sample size, but this year in Colorado, he was an 18.5 percent shooter, which is well above his career average. And if you're, so at some point, that's got to balance out. And if you're Carolina, I think you have this in mind. In the last year, you have seen Pesci, Shea, Tara Vinen, Nason, Gensel, Natchez, all go out the door. Think about how different that team is.

And those are all significant players. Those are not like fringe player, fringe lineup type guys. All those guys significant roles. And now if Rantan, like if you want to make a complex trade again and trade Rantanin, you add him to that list, I don't care who's coming in. Like you're just, you're not like, you're not on the precipice of winning a Stanley Cup with all those significant guys going out the door. So I do think you have to find a way to make it work and keep him and hope that

come playoff time, you get the playoff rant in the guy who's got, you know, 34 goals, 101 points, over 81 playoff games, Stanley Cup winner, and he just turns it on and lights it up in the playoffs. Because that's ultimately why you went out and got Gensel last year, playoff performer scores goals. You got rantin in this year,

playoff performer scores goals. Like, that's the crux of it for Carolina. You have to score more in the playoffs than you have in the past. And we're saying some of the same stuff that we've heard about Carolina. Like you look at Renton's individual numbers. Like they're control and play with him on the ice. Like 60% of the expected goals with him out there. Great.

That's, that's Carolina stuff. He's got almost four expected goals versus the one he's actually scored. So in Frankie mentioned four and a half percent shooting percentage. Like that's, you know, there's an element of snake bittenness going on here. I get that. But, man, the best thing you can say is this is why you go out and get him as early as you did.

Because you can go through this adjustment process and you have more time to, you know, find your footing before the games really, really count. The other thing we should say is by going and acquiring them, Carolina is the only team that can offer them eight years, which means let's say they keep them. they go on a run, try to win a Stanley Cup. At the end of that, he says, you know what, guys, I'm going to UFA. In theory, they have more leverage than other teams would have. So we always hear about, well, you could trade a guy's rights to some other team. But you never get much for that. Except as the only team that can offer me years, it could be a Matthew Kuchuk's situation of a sign-and-trade.

And you can, in theory, get pretty good value back to say, we're the only team that can do this. So you go out and you talk to other teams a couple days before July 1st, come up with, figure out where you want to go, figure out the number, we'll sign the contract, but then we need some significant compensation to make that work.

And that's a great plan. If and only if he wants to do eight years. If he's a guy that says, no, you know what, caps going through the roof, I'll take three or four or five years. And then I want to have another big contract.

Then that all crumbles if you're Carolina. so that there's yet another thing you've got to potentially be worried about. I got two things that popped into my head there. Number one, if you're ranting and you stay with Carolina and it really looks bad and it doesn't work, do you pick up the phone with your agent and call Colorado and say, let's just make a plan here that works within your cap structure? Can we do that? Can we find, I don't know, 11.75, 12, and I'll be happy and I'll play with you.

with McKinnon and we'll have a lot of success together and that's just where I want to be. The other thing that comes to mind, if for a second, can I make this about the Toronto Maple Leafs because we haven't done that yet. If you are the Toronto Maple Leafs, here's a poll question for you. Who would you rather have Mitch Marner or Miko Ranton if you could only have one? I know my answer. My answer is Mitch Marner because seeing what I've seen from Rantaninan and I know what's small sample size, but just seeing it not work the way it hasn't worked in Carolina. And I'm

like, well, regardless of the playoffs, I know Marner works with Matthews, with Neelander, in Toronto, with Tavares. Like, what if, what if you moved on from that? And you brought in this guy and you're like, oh, wait a second. We just committed seven years and 14 million and it doesn't exactly work. And we moved on from a guy that we know works and might be on the precipice of having a massive playoffs, I would lean towards Martin. You know what? I'll tell you, since you brought it up, Mitch, he's feeling it right now. Yeah, he is feeling it right now.

We weren't supposed to get into this, but we did. Oh, boy. So, yeah. And by the way, you know who loved here and all of that is Mitch Marner's agent. Just texted Mitch and said, we're getting a million bucks more than whatever Miko gets. 17 million dollars a year for Mitch Marner. Let's go. Yep.

This is all like I, this is and this is what, what we'll end on. We'll save. And then we'll move on to Seth Jones. This is all a function and of how, this is how we're conditioned to think of like big NHL trades is the trade happens and someone extends and it's all, it's all neat and tidy and that's the end of it. Like it's not abnormal for Miko Rintin and to maybe do some feeling out,

see if he likes Raleigh, see what the vibes are like there and maybe get back to him in a couple months. Like not everybody needs to be Marcus Patterson signing an extension with the Vancouver Canucks 10 minutes after the plane lands, right? Like this is, this is not, this shouldn't be abnormal stuff for him, but it also, you know, time is of the essence as well. Very interesting. All right.

We need to talk about Seth Jones because he sounds like he's having a bad time. I think Jeff has the audio from that. I think we're the exact same team. right now is where it's game one. I think it's pretty evident out there. We haven't made any strides to be a better, more simple hockey team. And it shows we don't get a lot of wins because of that.

This is in almost four years of, you know, bottom of the league, so it's not just this year. Okay. That from Seth came after a two-one loss to Utah on Tuesday night that, as Scott Powers chronicled on the site, uh, was a game that was not as close as the final score would indicate.

So let's start with Seth Jones. Is that a player who sounds like he's at the end of his rope? I think three or four years of brutal, of brutal hockey and worst in class play overall, maybe starting to wear on our guy. Maybe wearing on him just, did you say 2-1 loss or 12-1 loss? Because that, holy smokes.

I didn't watch a second of that game, but I saw what I saw what Jones said and then and then I opened up Scott's story and it was like the headline is it was of course Blackcock season finds a new low and lost to Utah I'm thinking I'm thinking I'm thinking this this is going to be 13 to 2 or something

and then you saw the heat map of the scoring chances and it was just bright red in the entire zone let me tell you guys this quickly you know the old like you've seen it on Instagram I'm sure where it's like when the golf trip makes it out of the group chat. You know, when the bachelor party makes it out of the group chat,

when the post game comment makes it out of like the, the buddy's dinner at Del Friscoe's Steakhouse and actually goes public, um, that's when you know stuff has really gone bad because he's probably felt that way for months and months, but, but for it to finally kind of boil over, um, like that's,

it's just, it's got to be really gone. bad as a team, as an individual for it to kind of make it out of the safe dinner setting of conversation. How real do those conversations get when it's going bad? Pretty real. Yeah. Like if, is there a filter?

Are you still, like, thinking like, you know, I got to watch what I say around these guys or are you just like? If you're with your core guys, like, you know, you try and spread it around as far as being on a team. Like, you want to make sure you get to know all your teammates. you're friendly with guys, but you're going to have your core four or five guys basically that you'll go to dinner with on the road. And that's when you'll have the more candid conversations about whatever, where the team is

at, where the league is at, life in general. But a lot of, like, there is a lot of team talk. Just like with any, any employee that works anywhere, you know, there's a little bit of like talk about work. Everyone's talking shop. That's what we live day in and day out. And so, you know, there'll be some pretty. honest conversations that happen.

And so, you know, for that kind of stuff to get bounced out of him after a, like, in a post game scrum, like he would have, he would have been feeling that stuff for a long time. And these conversations would have been happening for a long time. You don't just, you don't just shoot from the hip one day. And you're like, oh, I just realized we're actually not any better than we were at the start of the season. No, no, no. You've been feeling that for months, my friends.

And having it come a few days after his trade, right? request goes public feels. If not calculated, I mean, that makes it sound a little more devious than I wanted to, but it certainly makes it sound like he is decided to drop a filter that maybe was there before. Okay. Now, when it comes to Seth Jones, though, don't you think if you could find a way to make him a $7.5 million defenseman?

I was going to say. So, like, I would be, I would be picking up the phone and be able to be. like I could find a way to make him work for seven and a half. Nine and a half is a lot to digest, but that's like seven and a half is the going rate for a big minute munching offensive defenseman. And he's right handed and he's big. I'll take six and a half million dollars,

Seth Jones until 2030 or however long as contract lasts. That sounds a little ominous. But how do you do that is the question. Because I mean, if you're Chicago, it's easy to say, oh, you just retain three million. bucks a year. There's five years left on that deal. So first of all, that's 15 million that you're writing a check for, you know, whatever the 50 million of cap space that you're counting for. I mean, I know it's not going great in Chicago right now. I know the start of the Conradar

has a big. They would like, they would like to be good at some point. I feel like it's somebody to spend down the line. Yeah. You're kind of that that is when the window should be opening up. So I mean, how do you, uh, how do you, uh, how do you, uh, how do you make that happen? And yes, you could, you know, even if you find some other team to be the broker on it, it still is, that's, that's a big commitment. And remember, and, you know, some fans, every time this comes up, we all assume people get it, but not everyone, not everyone knows this. You cannot say if you're Chicago, for example, I will retain 50% next year and then 30% and then you're on your own.

You cannot balance it out like that. You have to say, if you're going to retain, it's X percentage and then it's every year it's left on the deal. So there's no wiggle room to get creative or to say, you know, we'll help you until the cap goes up and then you're on your own. It's all or nothing. So I don't see a realistic scenario here where this trade works. And that's tough news for Seth Jones because he feels like he's got one foot out the door.

Well, he also signed the deal there knowing that where that team was going, right? Like, let's call a spade a spade. They weren't on the precipice of being a playoff team. They weren't the old Chicago Blackhawks from, you know, the 2010s. Like, you took the bag. And sometimes there are certain strings that come with that bag. But, you know, at the same time, when you're kind of letting your frustrations out into the media, you might be closing the chapter on that.

And I don't know. I think he's got a lot to offer, especially teams that always complain about not having a top four right-handed defensemen. But Chicago is going to have to find a way to be good very soon because watching Connor Bedard and some of that body language, that's what would worry me so much there. It's like, this kid has so much potential to be a superstar. It might not be a generational star. We can probably throw that out there.

He is not going to be a generational start. But can he still be a superstar? Absolutely. but you have to work quickly to surround him with not just mentorship guys, like good players who can play and maybe keep the coach around who started the process with him and don't just deviate from that plan because you're not as good as you thought you were. I don't know how good you thought you were going to be, but this is pretty much it for Chicago. We've said it a million times.

The tear down is the easy part. building it back up is the tough part. And it's just one last thing on cap retention. Chicago does have a space. They only have one space. You guys know who the other two spaces that they're using their cap retention are? Jake McCabe. Jake McCabe is one of them.

And this is the other one. Every time I see this. Indrylade. Miko Rantinin. They've got Miko Rantin's contract on the books. I forget that every time until I see it, man. There it is. He made it full circle.

And we made it a full circle. about the Leafs too. That's awesome. You guys are pros. Fraggie gets to go to Shark's skate now. Congratulations, buddy. Yeah, I guess or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, we're going to watch a little Sharks practice, try and catch up with Macklin Celebrini today.

Talk to Ryan Worsowski. See what's going on around there. Let's get a full report. Let's get our full report on Celebrini for you next week. We'll check back in. How's that sound? Okay, boys. Sounds good. Sean, we're back.

What have we learned? What have we learned, Sean? I learned that, first of all, since the last time we spoke a week ago, I learned I was completely wrong about Jordan Bennington. He is, in fact, the greatest goaltender in the history of the world. And or he's an okay goaltender who picked the exact right time to have the best period of his life. But either way, I guess the other thing I learned is that does open a very interesting scenario for the St. Louis Blues. I will admit I had not contemplated until Rutherford brought it up. And that is, is this a guy that you potentially move right now?

We talked a lot about guys like Patterson being moved at the lowest value. And it's always so easy to say, you don't do that. You don't sell low. You sell high. And yet whenever it's time to sell high, you go, well, you can't sell now. This guy's good. This would be the time to sell high on Jordan Binnington. And it's not like the St. Louis Blue.

lose look like they have a particularly bright short-term future. So that's a fascinating angle to me. I'd been focused on John Gibson as the goalie who maybe would move. And certainly the Villahuso move with Detroit makes you wonder if there's something going on there. I know it was denied, but that's what you would expect it to, them to say. You look around the league. There are some teams that can use goaltending.

Edmonton is front and center in that. Ridd Skinner has not been good. We know what this team can do. Is it time to go out and get the veteran goalie who has won something in the past? Well, you know, Jordan Binnington's won a few things. And I feel like one of them, I feel like Connor McDavid may have been involved, may have got an up close look. I wonder if he would offer anything about how he feels about that whole situation. It's just, you know, it's a name that I wasn't thinking.

about. But if you're St. Louis and you're going to do it, you don't wait till the off season. You don't give everyone three months to go, oh yeah, this guy's an okay goalie. You do it now. You sell high. I don't know. I don't know if you buy high on them. $6 million against the cap for two more years after this. Edmonton's interesting because you like to have some other option, but this is where this is the full Jordan Bennington experience, right? He goes out and wins a huge game. It's a bad, you know, someone's, you know, what is. You know, what is a, you know, the saddest thing for me for

Edmonton is I'm looking at it and I'm going boy if they had to move a guy if they had to bring in a guy cap room I don't know if it works maybe you got to move a salary out you imagine if they trade it Jeff Skinner like an Anaheimers and the guy does it again another year of not getting

to play in the playoffs I wonder I wonder what I wonder what the response would be would Stan Bowman show up on the next anonymous agent poll appearing on the athletic, which is what I've learned, this is a Russo-Mertle joint

that dropped this morning. Tons of interesting stuff in there. I highly suggest that everybody, everybody goes and reads it. There's a dozen questions that they asked a whole bunch of agents about. The one I'm going to key on here, though. Who is the worst owner in the league?

Simple question. First place, Tom Dundon, 10 votes to Terry Pugula's five, which is remarkable because the hurricanes are good in the sabers or the sabers. That lets you know

I think a few separate things. The quote that stood out for me in the write-up, in the way this is written, it said, one agent joked, I'm not sure how much of a joke this is. One agent joked, the worst part of Dundon

lapping the competition here is he's probably proud of it. Yep. Is that a joke? I would venture to say that it is way more close to a serious statement than... A lot of truth is said in jest. Yeah, I would agree with that. And yeah, I'm surprised.

If you had told me that the worst owner by a significant margin would be the owner of a team that makes the playoffs every year and is a Stanley Cup contender, I would have been surprised. We know how it works in sports, right? Every owner is a dummy when their team's missing the playoffs, and then suddenly you go, oh, maybe they had it figured out all along. Boy, if I'm Terry Bagula, what do I have to do to win this one? I mean, do I got to show up and give another motivational speech to my team in the middle of a 10-game news history?

Have a leak in the roof that you don't fix. Yeah. I don't know. Make in hindsight, the solution was not. in the room after all. But Terry, Terry, you'll making a late charge in here by finding out,

by letting players know that they have to pay for Gatorade at practice or something. I'm not sure. I'm not, not sure what else there is to do. Man, there's so much, there's so much good stuff in this. I suggest that everybody goes,

goes and reads it. You'll learn plenty, just like I have. Sean, we got a fresh post from you up this morning, don't we? Yep, yep.

This is the, uh, this is why every team should make a big, bold move, maybe a blockbuster, whether that's buying or selling or somewhere in between, I made the case for all 32 teams. Do I believe all of them? I only believe about 29 of them.

Are any of them going to come true? No, of course. No, of course. It's going to be a bidding war over Ricardo, Raquel, and a bunch of cowardly GMs sitting on their hands and telling us they'll be really busy in the summer, and that'll be a lie too. Trades are hard, Sean.

I don't know if you've ever heard this before. Here's the thing. Somebody explained to me, there's apparently a salary cap. I don't know. I don't know when that came in, but I guess it just makes everything super complicated. Oh, hold on. I just,

yeah, there was just a seven-way trade in the NBA. That's cool. But yeah, it's super hard to make trades in the NHL. So I guess we'll see what happens. Never know. What's the,

what's the Leavespigmo? Spoil that for us. The Leafs big move is to, uh, slightly overpay for third line center who they will actually hope is going to be their second line center but he

won't be. It's better not be Yanni Gord. You better not be riding that train. I don't think Braden Shinn is the name that's going around. Interesting. I hear his brother plays for the leaves. He does and then he didn't and then he did again

and yeah get him to. I hear brothers are hot. They're the new hot in the NHL right now, so let's make it happen. Luke Shen ends up on whatever the Canadian equivalent of the Tonight Show is in four months. Yeah. The Leaves can lose, and then one of the players in their team, who is also a brother, can inexplicably show up on national television. Okay.

Honestly, that sounds about right. That could happen. Thank you, buddy. Thank you to Frankie wherever he is. And thank you folks for listening to Athletic Hockey Show. Haley and now are back for the Thursday show to Mark. tomorrow. Sean, Frankie and I are back next Wednesday. That is good God. That's two days from the trade deadline. I need to get my life together between now and then. Make sure it happens. Thank you,

folks. Talk to you then.