The Athletic Hockey Show - What If: Undoing trade deals in NHL history

Episode Date: November 25, 2021

With Black Friday and Cyber Monday coming up, Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe spend the next hour discussing deals in NHL history, dig into undoing some trades, talk some deals that ALMOST happened, and maybe anger a few fanbases along the way. Why not, it's the holidays. Is there a trade you would undo? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM at [phone]!The deal of the year is on NOW through 11/29 @ midnight, get a subscription to The Athletic for $1/month: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is a Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, Ian Mett as Sean McIndoo with you on this day. And, hey, since it's Thanksgiving Thursday and a holiday for our friends south of the border, we wanted to do something a little bit fun, a little bit different with the podcast today. Look, we've got Black Friday and Cyber Monday on the horizon. So we thought, what if we did a whole show, a whole episode centered on deals, like the best deals, that are out there because that's what people are thinking

as you get into Thanksgiving in the U.S., right, Sean? And I need to know before we kick off our deal-related show is Down Goes Brown like a Cyber Monday, Black Friday, aggressive shopper? No, no, well, only online. I'm not getting out of bed early to go charge into a Walmart to get $20 off a DVD player.

I know what I even just recently bought something and I was and after I hit purchase and you know everything I was like you know if I'd waited one week I probably would have gotten a great deal on that but I I don't so I'm not a big deal guy which makes me I would fit in well with today's modern NHL GMs because they're also not really big deal makers not like they used to be so I think the concept here is look people are going to go out there. going to look for deals, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, some of them might be great deals. Some of them might be deals that you kind of look back and regret a little bit and go, you know what? Didn't need that. Didn't need to do that. And NHL history is filled with both. And so we thought we could kind of play a little bit of one-if, maybe undo some history

and see where that would lead and help dig some teams out of maybe some mistakes that they made or maybe nudge them into doing something that we wish that they had done. You know, I like the fact that you said, you know, I'm not going to rush into Walmart to get $20 off a DVD player. And all I can think of is. Timely reference. Yeah, I feel like most general managers in the NHL are the ones that would be rushing out to buy DVDs, DVD players, right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's right. Lou LaMerello is out there looking for a phonograph and just demanding to speak to the manager. Oh, see, I was going to go laser disc with Lou, but you went right back to the phonograph. That's right. Yeah. All right.

So deals. Listen, I like the what if game, okay? And when we're talking about deals. So why don't we start with this? I'll ask you off the top here. If you could hit the old,

what is it? What's the undo? Control Z. Yeah. Control, control, uh, control Z.

Oh, you can go to the Tuesday show if you're going to drop control. I do, I do say Z. Uh, and not Zed. Okay. All right.

Okay. So, okay, so what's Zadano Chara? What's Zadano Chara's nickname to you? He's, when he crosses the border, he's the big Zed. That's, uh, and you know, it's, yeah, exactly. And well, the big Zed. So, wait, and listen, that's one of those classic. I've already insulted Lulamorello and Zadano Chara.

Islander fans are not the most chipper forgiving bunch. I feel like this is going to go really badly for me. this whole it's it's okay nobody in America is listening it's fun yeah it's Thanksgiving but you know it's funny

is that the islanders would be at the top of the list of teams that would like to hit the old Control Z or Control Z sorry for undoing a trade right they've had a whole bunch in their history whether it's Chara

or whether it's you know Roberto Luongo and Oliokin and getting traded like there's a bunch but if I ask you could go back and undo one trade in history? What is Sean McAdoe undoing? Well, I mean, look, I'm a Leafs fan. So I've got a lot of

ground to work with here. But I'm going to pick a trade that I'm going to undo. And it is a leaf's trade and it is a bad Leafs trade. But I'm not just doing it because selfishly I want my team to get a better result because I have lots of options. I could go back and undo Rask for Raycroft, put two Karaskin Leaves uniform for the last 15 years. There's a bunch of other ones that I could do. But instead, I'm going to focus on a trade that I just think is really interesting if you unravel it. And that trade is the Tom Kerber's trade that the Maple Leafs made famously in October in 1989. And if people have read my stuff, if you follow me out going all the way back to the grand land years,

You've seen me write a piece on this, and you're going to rehear it here. But Tom Carvers was a very good offensive defenseman in the 80s and into the 90s. And at the time he was playing for the New Jersey Devils, and the Toronto Maple Leafs at the beginning of the 1989-90 season made a trade where they acquired him from the New Jersey Devils for their first round pick in 1991. Okay, so they're trading the pick a year ahead. Now, that turns out to be important. And as a lot of fans would tell you, trading your first round pick years into the future never works out well.

And it didn't hear it for the Leafs because the Leafs in 89-90 were pretty good team. But 1991 was the Eric Lindross draft. And everybody kind of went, ooh, wait a second, did you just trade your first round pick in the Lindrosd draft? This is the most hype prospect since Merrill Lemieux. And the Leaf said, no, no, it's okay. We're good now. And they were pretty good in 89-90. They finished 500, only time in the Ballard era, made the playoffs.

So they're a pretty good team. The 1990-91 season comes around, and the Leafs are just terrible out of the gate. They start off 1-9-1, the coach gets fired, they're trading guys away. It's an absolute disaster. And they look around and they go, oh, my God, we don't have our first round pick. We traded it away. We may have just traded away Eric Lindross. Well, as we know, that's not actually what happened.

The Leafs didn't trade away. The Lindros picked it ended up being the third overall pick. Devils take Scott Niedermeyer. He's a great player. Franchise player, they go on and win multiple Stanley Cups with him. And people will look back on Tom Kruber's and they'll say, that's the trade that costs the Leafs, Scott Niedermier. And my argument is, no, it's not.

Actually, that's the trade that costs the Leafs Eric Lindross. Because the two worst teams in the league that year were the Leafs and the Nordiques, and they were kind of looking at each other like, wait a second. One of us has our first round pick and one of us doesn't. And there's this franchise player hanging out there for the first overall pick. And you got this weird tank battle where the Nordiques were tanking and the Maple Leafs were basically anti-tanking for lack of a better term, where they were just doing everything they could to just not finish dead last. To the point where late in the season, when the two teams were still neck and neck, they ended up making a trade with each other where the Nordiques traded three pretty good veteran players, three of their only good veteran players off their roster to the Maple Leafs for picks and prospects. So the Nordics got worse, the Leafs got better, Nordiques end up getting the first overall pick.

San Jose, the expansion team, gets number two. That was already locked in. And the Leafs get number three. Now, obviously, I'd love as a Leaf fan to just have that trade never happen and give the Leafs Lindross or Niedemeyer, whoever. But let's just say, the Leafs don't make that trade. They tank. They finish last. They get Eric Lindrosse.

Think about all the ways that other parts of the next few decades of NHL history start to unravel. Like, for example, most obviously, Lindros doesn't go to Quebec. He doesn't refuse to put the jersey on. You don't have him sitting out for a year. He would have been thrilled to go to Toronto. And then you don't get the double trade to the Rangers and the flyers.

So you don't get that whole controversy with Quebec. Quebec probably ends up with Niedermeyer because they would be picking third. Take that away. Okay, so now Philadelphia doesn't have Eric Lindrosse. But they do have Peter Forsberg. So what is Philadelphia? do with Peter Forsberg. Does he end up going to Philadelphia and staying there and, you know, playing his whole career? Does he end up getting traded somewhere else? Well, hold that thought

a second because their Philadelphia ended up trading him for Lindrosse because they wanted a number one center. There was another number one center who became available during that 91, 92 season when Eric Lindross would have been a rookie back then playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Doug Gilmore is in Calgary going, I want out of here. Do the Maple Leafs go after Doug Gilmore, if they've already got their franchise center and Eric Lindrosse, probably not. So where does Doug Gilmore end up going? Does he maybe go to Philadelphia? Is there a Peter Forsberg deal there?

Calgary gets, suddenly gets a Hall of Fame or instead of getting Gary Lehman for their guy. There's a lot of ways it could work out. Meanwhile, Quebec, if Niedermeier comes in, is he a piece? Remember, they ultimately rebuilt through the Lindross trade, but they didn't get anything out of Eric Lindross himself. Forsberg didn't come over for a couple years. Maybe Niedermeier's the piece that turns it around. and if he does, even if he makes the Nordiques just a little bit better.

Let's just say the Nordiques, based on having Scott Niedermeyer, I'm not going to say he saves the franchise, but let's say they just stick around in Quebec one more year. Now, they're not in Colorado for that 95-96 season. That means there's no Patrick Wa trade, because Montreal's not trading them to Quebec Nordiques. There's no chance. Where does Patrick Wa end up?

You just go down the list of all of these famous trades, and they all kind of link back to Eric Lindros, and none of them happened if Eric Lindrosse is sitting on the Toronto Maple Leafs roster instead of being a Quebec Nordique in limbo waiting to get traded. And it's all because of this dumb, horrible trade they made of sending Tom Kerber's to the New Jersey Devils. And by the way, we're not even talking about what happens to the Devils. If they don't get Scott Niedermeyer. Remember, they don't even have the high pick now, do they win the Stanley Cup?

And if they don't win the Stanley Cup, and this is where I went in the article and Devils fans cover your ears because this got a little bit uncalled for, I'll admit. You know, you get to 94, 95, 96, the devil still haven't won a cup. At some point, are they looking at Lou Lamarillo saying, this guy hasn't won anything for us? Let's get him out of here. Let's get somebody in to run this organization. You know, he's not some college guy like Lemuel.

Let's get a guy who's available who really knows the area. He's got a, you know, a history in New York, all this stuff. Well, you know who was available around 95, 96 looking for a front office job? guy by the name of Mike Milbury. Maybe he ends up taking over the New Jersey Devils in the mid-90s instead of letting Lou Lamarillo write it out with the championship roster. That's nightmare fuel for Devils fans. I get that.

But luckily, that's all it has to be because we never found out what ended up happening. But all traced back to that terrible, terrible Tom Kerver's trade that ends up accidentally pretty much rewriting all of NHL history for most of the 90s. Oh, man. And in this, we're only like 10 minutes into this podcast. You've already angered Devils fans and Islanders fans. Yep. I'm waiting at some point.

I'm sure you're going to draw the ire of Rangers fans. Oh, we got more. Yeah, don't worry. We got tons. We'll get there. Yeah. Okay. So I got a what if for you that from back in the day, like if I could go back and look,

I grew up in Vancouver. So I wasn't a Canucks fan, but I always thought to myself, what would the Vancouver Canucks have looked like with Cam Neely. Like remember, Cam Neely was kind of this raw, you know, he scored 50 goals for Vancouver in over the course of whatever three years. But, you know, he was a power forward like in training, right?

And so they package him off and a first round pick, which then later becomes Glenn Wesley, by the way, for Barry Peterson. And all I can think of, because you know me with, we'll go down the what if tree like you did, how would the 94 Stanley Cup have played out if the Vancouver Canucks had Trevor Linden and Pavel Burray and, you know, all of Jeff Cort and all those things, but Cam Neely?

Like, would the Vancouver Canucks have beaten the Rangers in the Stanley Cup in 1994? And maybe, you know, Cam Neely probably maybe never gets the Elf Samuelson knee or all that stuff that happened and it kind of eroded his career. What would the Canucks have been like with Cam Neely in the, 90s and would we have not heard about the 94 Rangers if Cam Neely is on that connects team. I think it's worth asking. You know what?

You said I was going to tick off Rangers fans. Now you've done it. Yeah. Exactly. I've done. Cam Neely's out there. Yeah. I mean, we can go even further down the rabbit hole there, right?

Like maybe Pavel Burray doesn't have to deal with so much garbage if he's got Cam Neely, you know, is going to be out there writing shotgun for him. That would be great. You mentioned the first round pick ended up being Glenn Wesley. You know, Glenn Wesley was a real good player. That pick was third overall. Yeah.

So they ended up trading away, you know, again, like the Leafs, it ended up being the third overall pick. And it wasn't, that 87 draft wasn't a great one. But it's another one of those cases where you might look at it and say, okay, if the Canucks knew that they had their own pick, do they maybe approach that 86-87 season? And they made this trade in the offseason. So they thought they were going to be better.

If they still had their first round pick, maybe they go in the tank a little bit more. The top two picks in that draft, Pierre Turgeon and Brendan Shanahan. So let's imagine that the Canucks finish one place worse. And they draft Brendan Shannon. Now you got Brendan Shanahan and Cam Neely on the same team with the Vancouver Canucks. I mean, oh my goodness, that would have been just talk about a team built for the late 80s early night. 90s, boy, that would have been something else. It's, I mean, I know it's, I feel like, I feel okay ticking off Islanders,

Devils, Rangers fans. Like, they're all, those teams are all some degree of okay right now. I feel like we're really kicking the Canucks fans when they're down right now. But, uh, and I know they've, they've heard about the, the Cam Neely trade so many times, but it's, it's impossible. And look, Barry Peterson was a real good player, uh, at the time. Like, it's, it's, right? Yeah, it wasn't, you know, he had some enormous seasons, you know, granted in a time when there were a lot of those happening in the 80s, but just never ended up being that guy again.

And obviously it ended up being just a disaster of a trade for the Canucks. One of the very worst in history. And Cam Neely, by the way, if people are wondering, he was like a ninth overall pick. So it wasn't like, you know, sometimes you got a guy in the fifth round. and you don't think he's going to be that guy and they ends up doing it somewhere else and, okay, what can you do? Now, Cam Neely was a top prospect. He was expected to be a real good player and they just didn't have the patience to wait him out. You know, and another deal I always think about too that if you could hit the old, you know, undo button on,

Winnipeg trading Tamu Salani to Anaheim. Now, that happened in Winnipeg's last year, but we, okay, we can agree on this, right? Like that deal happened in February of 96. Like the Jets were gone, right? Like if they hang on to T. Musilani, they don't stay in Winnipeg, right? Like that's for a say? No. No.

And in fact, they had been, they were almost gone in 95 and they had sort of gotten the one-year reprieve. But they were done. But what I never understood is that like they knew they were done. Like, why trade the guy when he could have gone to Arizona? Like, I guess my point is, I wonder. wonder what life would have been like if tamu salani was in arizona like we never get korea salani that which is one of the great one two combos of all time uh you know i know solani left but then you know he came back to the ducks it was a huge part of them winning his Stanley cup in 2007

i think you can make the argument uh he's the greatest duck of all time although you know ryan gotzloff is certainly in that conversation you know koreas in that conversation but like i want like i guess my question is if the jets move to arizona but they got Tammu Salani with them in the 90s. Does that change things for you for hockey in Arizona? Yeah, maybe. I mean, that's always the thing when you look at Arizona and some of the other teams that have struggled

is, is it the market or is it the team's lack of success? And the team of Salani back there, I mean, he was, there was certainly a dip. I mean, when he came in as a rookie, he was unbelievable. And he sort of later in his career had that resurgence as his lovable guy. And, you know, he wasn't quite there yet. then so maybe he doesn't move the needle all that much. But, you know, couldn't, couldn't hurt. It was a weird situation because, you know, Salani didn't want to go. That's the other interesting

thing. Like he, it wasn't, this wasn't like so many other 90s trades where it was a star who was like, I'm out of here, get to, you know, move me and teams just had to do what they could. It was, it was just a case where they didn't feel like they could afford them. And maybe Arizona wouldn't have been able to either. Do you want to hear a good, what if trade? And I'll throw this one out there. And this is, I want to be clear here, because some of the stuff we're going to talk about, I want to be clear on what was actually close to happening, what was just a rumor, what was reported. And this one was definitely falls much more into the rumor category. But at the beginning of that 95-96 season, like training camp, the jets were already exploring

trading team Mussolani. And one of the teams that was interested was the Hartford Whalers. And the Hartford Whalers apparently came knocking, asking for Timoselani, and they were told we're only doing the trade if it's Chris Pronger coming back. And that, you know, Chris Pronger, that was, the Hartford had soured on him. And this was right around the time he gets traded to St. Louis for Brennan-Shanahan. But apparently, according to reports at the time, there were at least conversations about would you do Chris Pronger for Timu Salani? And what kind of a blockbuster would have that been?

and, you know, team, but what is, what happens if Tim Mussolani goes to Hartford? Can he do it? Can he, can he get them going there? That means Brandon Shanahan's not in Hartford, which means Shanahan doesn't end up in Detroit. And, you know, you go all down the list of all the weird ways that works out. But that, that's another fun what if on my, on my list. Oh, man, I can't. So now I'm, I'm trying to even picture Tame Usalani in a whaler's jersey and I can't, I can't do it.

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's hard to pick. Chris Pronger in a Whalers jersey too these days. But yeah, it was, it's, it's a strange one. But who knows? I mean, it's easy to look back on those teams that moved in the 90s and say, if they've gotten this one more guy, that would have saved it. Then they would have, I mean, Salani couldn't save the jet, so I don't see why he would have saved the Whalers.

But sure would have been interesting to see them out there in the green and white. Yeah. And listen, like we did ask recently, we threw this out on social media, asking, hey, if your favorite team could hit the undo button on one trade in history, what would it be? So I'm just going to run through a couple of these while we're doing kind of the undo feature. Okay. So Ethan wrote into us and said Columbus trading for Jeff Carter and this isn't even close. So just to recap here, when Columbus got Jeff Carter, they did it at the drive.

draft, I believe, in 2000. Remember that? That's the weekend where Philly got rid of Carter and Richards, right? It was like, we can't win with these guys. Yeah, we got to pay Ilya Brzgal of $9 million a year or whatever it is. Yeah. So to get Jeff Carter from Philly, they gave up Jake Voracek, who was just a terrific player. But they also gave up a first round pick who turned out to be Sean Kuturier.

So if you think about this, Columbus gave up, right? They gave up a first rounder. And it was the first rounder. They knew it was the eighth overall. Yeah, exactly. This wasn't a future one. It was, yeah.

So they knew it was going to be a good player. Didn't catch him by surprise. But this, yeah, this was a case where I, you know, this was, I think Columbus just saying, we have a chance to go get a guy who young star player. and we got to do it. We're the Columbus blue jackets. We can't keep kicking the can down the road and worry about a few years down the line.

So let's trade a big chunk of our future for a guy that, you know, back at the time, there were a lot of Flyers fans that were furious. There was that. And then, you know, they trade Richards for Chen and Wayne Simmons. And, you know, a lot of fans are saying, what are we doing? This is crazy. Briscallov obviously didn't work out, but the two trades certainly did. but I think it made a lot of sense for Columbus the way they were thinking.

What they didn't count on was that Jeff Carter just wanted no part of being a Columbus Blue Jacket. And he was not very good in Columbus. We can argue over whether he was sandbagging it a bit, sulking, or whether it just wasn't a good fit. Obviously getting traded can be tough on players. But he ends up lasting like half the season. And then they flip him to L.A. And he goes and wins the Stanley Cup there with Mike Richards. Strange story, strange start of events.

But, yeah, certainly one. If you're Columbus, you know, Boracek, and I mean, you got Voracek back now, but it took a decade. And Sean Couture is still one of the better two-way centers in the league. Certainly much rather have that than whatever they ended up getting for Jeff Carter, which I don't think was very much. Well, though, exactly. So they got a first, like,

so they did get a first round pick back from L.A. for Jeff Carter, but it wasn't of the same caliber as Sean Couturee. They got Marco Dano. Like, they drafted Marco Dano, who just never quite, you know, found his niche in the NHL. And they got defenseman Jack Johnson. So if you think about that, you know,

you lose out on Couturier, you lose out on Vore. check. You kind of, you have Carter for whatever it is four months. And in return, you get Jack Johnson and Marco Donnell. Like that's, boy, when you look at it that way, it's a pretty rough. It's a tough one. I mean, again, I get, you're sitting there.

You're the Columbus Blue Jackets. You've been in the lead for 10 years. You've never won a playoff game. You got to be sitting there. You know, you were coming off a year where they were, they, I think, well, I'm looking at it, 81 points. So almost, almost 500. Not a great team, but you know what?

You're in the playoff mix at that point. Yeah, take your swing. But the problem is sometimes you take your swing, you miss big time. And this was one of them. Okay, we got another, I wish I could undo this one. This is obviously, I think, coming in from a Habs fan and Stephen, who wrote to us and said, if I could undo one trade, it's acquiring Scott Gomez and giving up Ryan McDone.

Yep. That's definitely another one that. has kind of lived in infamy a little bit because Ryan McDonough, a real good player drafted by the Canadians. I don't believe ever played for them. But he goes over in that Scott Gomez trade. And what was weird about that was Scott Gomez was a very good player for a lot of years in the NHL in New Jersey. A very good two-way player, good speed.

But he had signed that big free agency contract with the Devils. And I wouldn't say didn't, well, I wouldn't say didn't play well, but I don't think lived up to that contract. And, you know, to the point where this was one of the first, you know, early in the cap era where we were starting to realize, wait a second, a good player with a bad contract is not a good asset. And what do the devils do with this guy? Like, do they have to move them?

Is there, you know, is there a way out of this? Is there, you know, do this is it a buyout? It was, you know, a lot of that was going on. This is around the same time. There had been like the Danny Breyer deal and Wade Redden and contracts like that. and it was sort of like, how can they, how can they get out of this?

And then Montreal comes along and says, not only will we take Scott Gomez and get you out of this, we'll give up some pretty decent assets to make it happen, including Ryan McDonough, who was a well-thought-up prospect.

And it probably feels like one of those were the devils, you know, probably couldn't hit yes fast enough to get it done. And even at the time, a lot of people kind of looked at it going, what is Montreal doing?

And if I remember right, I think Scott Gomez was okay, in Montreal for a year or two. Like he, you know, he, he was what they should have expected making that deal. But then it went south and there was that, remember there was that long scoring drought where did Gomez score.com was a thing and they ended up buying them out. So just another mess of a deal. When you said Montreal fan, I thought we were going to Patrick Waugh, but that one,

the Scott Gomez trade is one that under the circumstances, I think you can make the argument it was even worse as far as what they were doing at the time. Yeah, because that was the, like you said, the cap era. And that's when the Rangers were going all in on all those guys, right? Like Drury, Gomez, you know, Bobby Holick or whoever they were bringing in. And it just, it didn't work out for them. So for them to get out from under that and hand Gomez to Montreal and then get Ryan McDonough in return, it's mind-boggling.

And, okay, real quick, though, too. Scott Gomez, I was just looking up his page here, okay, after he left Montreal, this is crazy to me. After he left Montreal in 2012, he played for five other NHL teams. Do you know the five teams that Scott Gomez played for? No, I don't. This is crazy. After he left Montreal, I mean, I put it this way.

I know one of them is Ottawa. Yeah. And I'm in Ottawa, and I have no recollection of Scott Gomez playing in Ottawa. Like it's, it's, and boy, the rest of them, I, I, yeah, he had one of the strangest finishes to a career. I remember that. But what, what are the teams? Because he wound up back in New Jersey at some point, I thought. He did.

He went back to New Jersey for a full season in 1415. But around that, like this, this, you know when you did your trivia last month and you were like, who did this guy play for or not play? before. I feel like the next time you do that, use Scott Gomez. Okay. I will. Because Scott Gomez played for San Jose, played for Florida, played for St. Louis, and Ottawa. Yeah. Like, who remembers Scott Gomez in St. Louis? No recollection of any of that. Florida doesn't surprise me just because I think everyone has to stop either in Florida or Arizona late in their careers. But yeah, no, I had no memory of that whatsoever. I'm guessing there's probably some

blues fans out there going, I don't think Scott Gomez has ever played in St. Louis. But yeah, good player at his height, man. He was a good player, but not by then. Yeah. Okay. We got a couple of other ones here that we got again from people on social media. This is an interesting one, too. I didn't even, like, you would probably remember this.

I don't even remember this trade. Philadelphia Flyers make a trade. they trade Justin Williams for Danny Markov. So Tim sent us a note and saying, you want to talk about bad deals of all time? I wish I could undo. Trading away Justin Williams for Danny Markov. Yeah, that's a little bit of a deep cut.

But yeah, no, that was the first of the Justin Williams trades. And he would, so it's 2004. I'm looking at this. He's 22 years old. And he'd been a first round pick. He's been in the NHL for a couple years. So, yeah, they're giving up on a young player before he's really had a chance to blossom. And certainly we all saw what Justin Williams went on to become as a player, especially in those big games.

I will take issue a little bit here because I feel like there's some unspoken slander to Danny Markov happening here. And Danny Markov was freaking awesome. Danny Markov was just one of the great crazy on and off ice characters of that era. You know, as a Lee fan, we all remember him giving Jagger the salute. There were, I think in the minor leagues, he attacked a mascot one time. Like, Danny Markov was a wild man. And, you know, I'm not saying he was worth Justin Williams, but you got to live the Danny Markov experience for a little while.

So you got something out of it. We got another one here. And these are the quirky things that I think are right up your alley. Okay. So Brad sent us a tweet, and I guess Brad must be a St. Louis fan. Deals that I would undo. Brad says St. Louis Blues trading away Curtis Joseph back in the day so that they would be allowed to sign Shane Corson. Yeah. So I looked it up, okay.

August 4th, 1995. St. Louis Blues trade Curtis Joseph and Mike Greer in exchange. for a first round pick who turned out to be Marty Reasoner and another first round pick the following year which was later flipped out in a subsequent deal. So they traded Curtis Joseph and Mike Greer and got two first round picks in return and what this blues fan is saying, Brad,

is that they, now refresh my memory here. They did that so they could sign Shane Corson. If I remember right, this was around the era where you could sign other teams restricted free agents, but there was player compensation instead of the automatic draft picks that we have

today. And for example, to use Curtis Joseph as an example, one of the fun bits of trivia is when the St. Louis Blues signed Brennan Shanahan away from New Jersey and infamously lost the arbitration case and had to give up Scott Stevens, their offer had been Rod Brind

Timor and Curtis Joseph. So two pretty good young players just at the start of their career could have been going in New Jersey. And in fact, the offer was so good that New Jersey went, well, let's just really swing for the fences and we'll ask for Scott Stevens and they got him. But yeah, the basically, they basically traded Shane Corson because it was a free agent situation where, yeah, the listener has it right. They were essentially allowed to sign him without further compensation by making this trade,

which is why the Oilers were able to get Curtis Joseph at pretty good value, even though they gave up the first round picks. It was, you know, he was a really good and well-established goalie by then. So, yeah, that's a bit of a tough one. Shane Carson, I know his era in St. Louis was an interesting one. And they probably looking back, you'd rather hold on to Curtis Joseph, especially when you see him in and stealing playoff series against the Dallas stars a few years later. So like I said, we got a whole bunch of those kind of, you know, you go back and undo. Look, one thing we want to say is I know we focused on some ones there from whether the Habs or St. Louis.

I think it's fair to say every franchise in the NHL has at least five trades. If your team is at least, you know, 10, 15, 20 years old, at least. Like, I'd say, like, the Minnesotas and the Columbuses would be included in this. You have at least five, like, regrettable deals that you would have a great debate over a beer with your buddies of, no, I'd like to undo, no. You could, like, even we're talking earlier with Vancouver fans about, you know, you gave away Cam Neely. Well, there's other deals, right, in that franchise's history that you're like, ooh, what have you done here? Or, you know, Toronto. Every team's got a few that are just terrible.

And here's the thing. it's one of those things every team thinks, every fan base thinks their team has more of these deals than anyone else. Yeah. Every team thinks that every fan thinks their team is the one that's always on the losing end of these deals. And it's, you know, that's, that's how it works, right? That's how we remember this stuff. So one other thing we wanted to do kind of with the what if game here. And again, we're kind of got a deals centric edition of the podcast today looking at deals and traits. Now, one one thing we want to throw out here okay now what about and you talked about this earlier that that Hartford was kind of sniffing around tamuselani right so what about one of these trades that

almost happened that didn't so whether you know you've heard like a wayne gratsky was super close to being traded to Vancouver or you know even Toronto I think was at one point in the mix like there's a lot of deals that like they got to the finish line but just didn't didn't quite get over. What, what's the one for you that, you know, I heard this trade was going to happen and it just fell apart. But boy, would that have been really cool to watch it, watch it play out? All right. I'm going to go with my number one pick here. But you feel free to stop because I feel like there's a chance I might be stepping on your toes on this. Oh, I know. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, is that the one you

were going to use or can I? Yeah, because. Can I take it? Yeah, no, no. And it's a good one because I think you start to ask yourself, do the Detroit Red Wings win Stanley Cups if you swap out Steve Eiserman for Lexi Yashin? So this is the mid-90s. It's 95-96-ish. The Red Wings have been very, very good in the regular season for years,

but they're not getting over the hump in the playoffs. And they've lost the 95 final, got swept. And it's a lot like you see in Toronto or Colorado now. where people are going, there's just something missing from this team. I don't know if they can, this core is really a championship core. And at some point,

as unbelievable as it would be to fans today to hear us say this, they apparently decided that the solution was, we got to trade Steve Eisenman. You can't win with Steve Eisenman. Steve Iserman is just not, he's just not a winner. And of course, that's ridiculous.

He's now viewed as one of the most legendary winners of all time. But back then, he was that era as like Joe Thornton or that sort of guy. He just couldn't get it done with them and they were going to trade him. And he's a local guy in Ottawa. So Ottawa jumped to the front of the line and said, yeah, you know, we're interested. And some people, you know, it's whether it was it a rumor? Was it closer than that?

There's a lot of reports that say that this got really close and that the key to the deal was basically going to be. I was going to Ottawa and Alexei Yashin plus coming over to Detroit. And in some versions of the story, Chris Osgood's involved as well, and maybe Damien Rhodes and who knows. But the main thing was it was Steve Eisenman was going to go home to Ottawa and Alexei Ashen was going to be the centerpiece going to Detroit. So again, just to reiterate, an NHL team apparently said, you know what we need to do to win is we need to swap out Steve Isman and bring in Alexey Ashen. And in fact, our buddy Chris Stevenson in his book about the senators, he reported that they literally had a plane on the tarmac ready to go. They're ready to fly down to Detroit to pick up Steve Iserman because the deal was done. And it's, you know, in some version of the story, it's Eiserman who says no.

And in some versions, it's Detroit ownership. And, you know, who knows. But it falls apart at the last minute and deal never happens. But that's another fun one to, you know, not very fun probably for Redwood. fans, but to sit there and say, you know, what happens? It's easy to look at it and go that Detroit never wins anything without Steve Eisenman, and especially with Alexei Ashen. We, you know, he had a reputation as being a guy who was poisoned in the dressing room.

Maybe not, though. Remember, Detroit had more Russians and, you know, more of the acceptance of that style than any other team. Maybe Alexei Ashen goes to Detroit and fits in perfectly. But who knows what Steve Isamon does in Ottawa, you take Yashin out of Ottawa. that means there's no chara spetz a deal a few years later. There's no Mike Milbury given Alexei Ashen $90 million or whatever it was. But I think the main thing is I'm pretty sure you can take those Stanley Cups out of Detroit.

Because without Steve Iserman, the wings just aren't the wings. Yeah, and I wonder too, what would Steve Iserman have been like in Ottawa, late 90s, into the early 2000s, Battle of Ontario. now you got Iserman. That's right. It's really interesting. Does he have that late career transformation, you know, into the defensive player? Does that even, I mean, remember, Ottawa, this is, you know, 95, 96. Ottawa was a complete mess back then.

They were just a disaster of a franchise. It's, you know, it's possible that Iserman lasts a couple years and says, get me out of here. Who knows? There's a lot of different ways I could go. And, you know, not to mention, geez, Chris, Chris Osgood did the trade too. then, I mean, you're wiping out huge swath of Red Wings history. So that's definitely one I would imagine their fans do not want to be thinking about. So earlier we talked about, you know, the trajectory of the Eric Lindross stuff in relation to Tom Kervers and Niederbeyer and all that stuff.

As we do the, hey, the deals that almost happened. What, like, just for a second, let's expand on if the Rangers got Eric Lindross. Okay. So just to reset the story, both the Rangers and the Flyers think they've traded for successfully and they've got Eric Lindross. And that was in the offseason of 92, never went through. The arbitrator ruled in favor of the Flyers. The rumor says, Sean, that the deal was, I think, as follows.

Or at least we could agree upon some of the, you know, the principles that the Rangers would have given up a goaltender, John Van Biesbrook, forward Tony Amante, who you got to remember, Amante was like a. runner up for the Calder Trophy, ended up with a very good career. Doug Waite, who was a very prized prospect, right, in the organization, ended up being a, you know, a legitimate number one centerman for a good chunk of his career. Lexi Kovalev, who was a talented guy, and then the $15 million cash. Do the Rangers win the Stanley Cup in 1994? If all of those pieces are out and Eric Lindross is in?

It's hard to say. I mean, and probably not. I mean, because to win a Stanley Cup, even back then, you just need so many pieces to click and into the right place at the right time. And you take that many pieces away. I'm not sure you do. Now, the flip side is it would have been fascinating to see what Eric Lindrosse could have been in New York. Because remember, when he came in, everybody said this guy's the next Messier, you know, plus.

And to have him with Mark Messier, because they had acquired him the year before. that would have been a pretty unstoppable, you know, to, I mean, imagine, imagine being the second line center and you're Eric Lindross. That would have been a pretty unbelievable combination, but not a lot of depth around it. I imagine they probably would have been very active bringing guys in to supplement and to play with those two guys. And it wouldn't have been a hard sell. But it's hard to say. I mean, those are, you're talking some key pieces of a cup team. You take that away.

it's up in the year. One other one that I saw, you know, I Googled before we dropped this podcast, I googled the you know, NHL deals that almost happened or didn't quite happen. This is what I didn't know until I looked it up. And maybe, again, you're so good with this stuff.

Maybe you remember this. I probably wrote half those articles when you Google this stuff. I don't. I don't know who this Sean McIndoo guy is, but I don't go to the ground. Nobody remembers that. Yeah.

Pavel Datsuk almost. went to the New Jersey Devils in 2007. Yeah. We're back to the Scott Gomez situation. Yeah, and it was for Scott. Fox Sports Detroit reporting it was almost a done deal. It was basically, it sounded like it was almost a one-for-one deal that would have sent Pavel Datsuque to the Devils in exchange for Scott Gomez.

Like, wow. Again, makes you wonder Detroit wins the Stanley Cup that year, right? 2008. They got back to another cup in 2009. Pavel Datsu kind of carves out this niche. being one of the best two-way players in the game. What happens if Pablo Datsu goes to New Jersey? And Scott Gomez goes to Detroit.

It's a real interesting one because, you know, as much as, again, like to somebody today, you go, oh, wow, Detroit would be crazy to do that. At the time, those were two very similar players. This is, you know, Gomez, this was, he's heading into his last year, I think, in, in New Jersey. So the contract is almost up. Datsuka is in the same boat. His contract's almost up.

They're both going to want more money. Both teams aren't sure if they can sign the guy. Gomez is still a pretty good player. Datsuke is a pretty good player, but he hasn't blown up yet. He hasn't. I think this is the year before he has like the 90-something point season and then has a couple years of that production. So they're considered very similar players.

And it's sort of a situation where they play the same position. They play a similar style. They're a similar age. And they're in the same contract situation. And eventually two teams look at each other going, should I trade my headache for your headache? And, you know, maybe that's our way out of this. And it was reported to be something that was talked about.

I don't know if it was close, but it was something that was considered. And yeah, I mean, in hindsight, assuming things played out the same way, it would have been a big loss for Detroit because Datsuk was about to take the next step to become not just a very good player, but an elite player. And Gomez was getting pretty close to taking a step back. But at the time, there wasn't any way to know that. And it would have been a deal that would have made a lot of sense. But, yeah, probably costs Detroit to a Stanley Cup in 2008.

Okay. So one other thing we wanted to do, and I love this part of it too, okay, is you said, hey, when we're doing this show about deals and, you know, trades, one thing we should do is what's one trade that never was on the table, but that we feel like, you know, that would have been a good trade. And that could have helped out both teams. And I remember you did a column on this, not or you touched on this. At one point, I recall you, Marcel Dion was involved in a trade.

Do you remember this? And I think he said he goes to the HABs. Is that right? That's right. Yeah. Somebody asked me, I'm trying to remember. It was in a mailback. Somebody asked me like to redo a deadline deal.

and there would be a win-win. And yeah, I think I sent Marcell Dian to the Habs right before they won their cup in 86 when he was still a real good player. And I gave the Kings a draft pick that turned into somebody. Eric Dayshardhan. Something like, yeah, okay, it could have been that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that was one of those fun ones where I kind of went to let me find it here.

I got it to. Yeah. Somebody said. Somebody said, pick a star who's never won a cup and go back in time and find a moment they would have been traded. Who do you trade? And yeah, it was Marcel Dion as the greatest player, I think a lot of us feel to never win a Stanley Cup. And I said, yeah, you flip him to the Canadians in 87. And the King send Dion to the King.

No, at the 86 deadline. Yeah. So he gets there in time for their 86 cup. I mean, the Montreal Canadiens had been trying to get Marcel Dian his entire career. They had had the choice between him and Lefleur. They had tried to trade for him in a few times. You know, we know Montreal, French Canadian stars. This is a no-brainer for them.

That Montreal team, they had Patrick Waugh. They weren't very good offensively, though. This was like the Mats Naslin era. So, you know, he could be their number one guy. So, yeah, and I, that's right. I gave, that was my deadline deal. Dionne from L.A. to Montreal, and the Habs give up their second round pick in the 87 draft. And that ends up being Eric Desjardin.

And the beauty of that for the Kings is not only with Eric Desiardin and a really good player, but if you've got Eric Desiardan on the Kings, that means he's not on the 93 hams, to score that hat trip in game two that turns that entire thing around. I think maybe the Kings get the cup in 93. So you're trading cup for cup, getting Marcel Dion's name on the big trophy and undoing a pretty painful moment in L.A. history. I like that one a lot. I totally forgotten about it.

But yeah, where this guy right in this mailbag is, he did a good job on that one. I like it a lot. And then it makes you wonder, do both the Dion brothers end up with a cup with Montreal because Jillbert Diann. That's right, yeah. The Dian brothers who were like somehow like 25 years apart in age.

So maybe end up both on there. Maybe one costs the other one in the cup. Maybe that's how that works. Yeah. It's so funny because you always think, like, I remember when Jilbert Dion broke in the league, and you're like, what do you mean this is Marshall's brother, right? Yeah.

It's his son? No, no, it's his brother. Son? Nephew. What are we? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man.

Like, Very strange one. It was, it was like the, it's the NHL version of like the two car quarterbacks in, in the NFL where you're like, any real, what are you mean? What are you talking about? They're 10 years apart. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good for him. Yeah. Oh, man. Now, what about, okay, so that was one that you inadvertently didn't even realize that you'd put that out into the public realm?

Well, I'm glad. Yeah. I'm glad you threw that at me because I'm going to cheat a little bit on this. And I hope I'm not hanging you out to dry. But because the one I have is not totally fictional. But I'm at the point now where I'm going to say this is fictional. Because it has been reported and maybe some people have heard it. But I just, the more and more I think about it, I refuse to believe that this was ever a serious. consideration, but I wish it was because this would have been absolutely wild. It's 2009, and there is a rumor that Vincent La Cavillier is going to be traded by Tampa. And who's in the middle of it? Of course, no. Again, it's a French star. Of course, it's Montreal. And apparently, or at least allegedly, by 2009, the two teams had agreed on a trade that was going to send Vincent de la Cavaea to Montreal.

And in return, the package was, okay, imagine your Tampa and you could choose from these assets, okay? P.K. Suban, Max Patcheretti, Carrie Price, and a first round pick. Those all sound pretty crazy to give up for Vincent La Cavié. Here's the thing. According to the story, it wasn't take your pick. It was all four of those things. It was a package deal. Price, Subbaugh, Patcher ready. And a first round, yeah. Remember, this is a young carry price. He's 22, I think, at this point, not even established as the starter. P.K. Suban is a prospect. Patiretti is young in his career. So you're basically trading your three of your best young players and a first round pick to get Vincent Lacavier, who is an established star and, you know, a superstar in the league. And it's still, it's such an overpay. And obviously it blows up everything that we know about.

the Montreal Canadians and we now know that La Cavier was was kind of done as a really elite player. And it's the sort of thing, it's so unbelievable that when people hear it, you go, what's the source for this? Like, are we like are we pulling out like an Eclan rumor? Like what is going on? There's no way. Here's the source. It's a guy who I guess might know a guy named Brian Lawton who was the general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning at the time. and he has told this story in a couple of places saying that this is the deal.

So it far be it for me to say that a guy who was the GM of one of the teams isn't telling the truth. I'm just at the point where I'm going, you know what, I think all of us are human nature when it comes to big things that, you know, decisions we could have made in our lives, we tend to look back charitably. I'm not saying those names never came on. I'm saying if Brian Lotton is saying he had all of that on the table and it didn't happen. in his version of the story, I think it's lightning ownership that says no. So Brian Lotton goes to the owners and says, I have this deal. I want to make it. And the owners say no.

And that's why it falls apart. So I think it's awfully convenient for Brian Lotton to be able to tell that story and say, I would have had the all-time haul, the all-time great trade. And my owner said no. It's just, it's too good to be true for everyone who's not a Havs fan. And, you know, if you are a Havs fan and you're sitting there going, geez, I had to listen to you guys talk about Patrick Wa. I had to listen to talk about Scott Gomez.

Like, here's your redemption is that this deal that was, according to Bride Lawton, was actually not only on the table, but agreed to, didn't actually end up happening. Oh, man. Like, that's unbelievable. Like, four legitimate, like, because then you see the stuff. It's insane. Yeah.

Right. You see what Jack Eichael was traded for now in 2021. And then go back and imagine, let's say the haves were in the. running for Jack Eichael. Like, imagine that that's what they offered up at them. Like, it's, it's nutty. And, I mean, consider that Tampa eventually had to buy out Vincent La Cazzy, it cost him a fortune. I mean, they, this, this sounds ridiculous to say about a team that went on to play in a

cup final a few years later and has won multiple cups since then. But, like, I think Tampa's better. They still have young Stephen Stampco. Remember that picture of Stephen Stamcoe and P.K. Subbin as little kids? Yeah, from now they're on the lighting. Yeah. And Carrie Price. Max Patrick, I beat it, just would have been absolutely, absolutely crazy, which is why it's,

I'm at the point, I've written about it a few times. And every time I do, people go, don't write about that. There's no way. And I know, yeah, but what if there is? I'm kind of at the point now where I go, you know what, it is too good to be true. There's, there's no way that was an actual deal on the table. You know, one deal that I always thought, and I'm going to stick the knife into Habs fans here again, one more time, is Patrick Waugh. Like, when they traded him to the avalanche, Okay. Like, I always thought about Philadelphia. You know, if you think of the flyers and their goaltending problems, like,

like imagine if Patrick Wa got traded to Philadelphia there in 95-96 because given the package of Montreal got in return, it's not like the flyers would have to have given up Lindrosse or Leclair or Brindamore. Right? Like, they could have probably gotten, I don't know, like, I'm looking at their roster from 95-96, and I'm like, you probably, maybe you would have had to give up Michael Renberg and maybe like Pat Falloon, but that's about it. Like, I've always, I guess I would have wondered.

Wow. We had Pat Falloon. Like, but I would have wondered, like, what would have happened if the, arguably the greatest goalie of all time went to the one market that eats up goalies alive? Like, would the flyers have won a Stanley Cup with Patrick Gaw and Eric Lindross? Like, I always wondered, like, what would have happened? Like one of these all-time Hall of Fame goalies at their peak, if they went to Philly, would they get chewed up and spit out? Or would they have thrived? And then it would have been the actual, we could actually put it to the test.

Is it a goalie graveyard? Yeah, the movable object. Yeah, exactly. What happens? Wow. I think, yeah, I, man, I don't know. First of all, I mean, we are twisting the knife on Habs fans because now they're sitting there thinking about, oh, yeah, mid-90s trades with the flyers. Let's look at that roster.

Oh, there's John Leclair. Yeah, there's Dejardin. Yeah, okay, that went really well for us. Yeah. But, yeah, man, that would have been a heck of a test, eh, to see what could happen in Philadelphia. One of the greatest goaltenders of all time. My goodness. And, you know, of course, the biggest thing, I think we can all agree is the biggest

historical change is that if you do make that trade, that means it's Patrick Waugh coming down the ice to fight Felix Potvin instead of Ron Hextel a few months later. Yes. Which, you know, we talked about a few weeks ago, that's, I mean, there you go. That's the, you put a bow on that. I think that's why the trade didn't happen. It was just too, it would have been too, too unbelievable. Yeah, Juan, Juan Hextel on the same team, I think would have been, uh, that would

have made practice fun at least. Oh, man. You think Wawn and Hexel on the same team. What about the scenario you just laid out? I'm now thinking of Kerry Price and Andre Vazolevsky. being a goalie duo for some period of time. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Just, yeah, that, that would have been okay. I feel like that team would have been fine, especially when, you know, that's a Ben Bishop, which I, you know, I saw all your

senators' fans are still hurting over that. The Cory Conacher deal, that's another one that came up a ton of times. Man, every, every fan base has so many of these. And it's, it's, I, I know we're missing a bunch. And I know when, you know, once people hear this, I could just see the tweets are going to come in. Well, what about this? What about that? What about this terrible trade that my dumb team made?

It's part of the fun of being a sports fan and a hockey fan. Yeah. Okay. Last one I'm going to throw at you on the fictitious deals that kind of, you know, never happened or whatever. Everyone always says the Boston Bruins in 2005 just didn't let people know that Joe Thornton was available, right? Like, isn't that the consensus is that Michael Conner,

yeah, Michael Connell was a GM, right, at the time? I think so, yeah. In Boston. And that he just alerted a handful of teams. And it makes you wonder, like, like, what could have the Bruins gotten in return if they were like, hey, just an FYI, everyone, Joe's available and anyone can have them at any price. And, like, you know, like, okay, here's the team I think of.

in the what-if game on Joe Thornton, okay? Calgary Flames. Remember, Calgary had gone to the Stanley Cup final before the lockout, so they had been to the most recent Stanley Cup. But what was like the number one knock on Calgary back? Like Craig Conroy is their number one center? Or like, was it Damon Lankow?

Like, they didn't have that guy. So now I'm fantasizing about Joe Thornton and Jerome McGinla. Together. Oh my goodness. Yep. Right? And the beautiful thing about that trade is,

you know, so many of these deals, He'd go, well, yeah, but what could have they given up? But Santa Ana's, they didn't give up anything. No, you know, we'll give you Chuck Kobesu or whatever. Exactly. I don't know why I found his name funny. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, I guess I'm thinking, like, imagine if he was open for anybody and a team that, it just felt like Calgary was desperate for a number one centerman. They were on the precipice, right? And like, that was for enough's rookie year, if I'm not mistaken. Like, when he was, he was, you know, he was just dynamite. Yes, I think so. Yeah.

They had a good team. Mika Krippersoff in his prime. Could the Calgary Flames have gotten Joe Thornton and maybe been a, you know, maybe been a Stanley Cup contender and maybe not have wasted, you know, because it kind of felt like the next seven or eight years they kind of toyed with mediocrity. Like we're in, we're out. Yeah.

And they never knew. Yeah. I think Thornton changes that. You know what? That's a real good one. I like that one a lot. The big one with Thornton is always the ducks because Brian Burt, remember a few years ago, he said something along the lines that.

that they didn't know or that they were in the mix. And he talked about what the offer, in vague terms could have been, and people were able to piece together what they, what they thought it was. But, yeah, I like that. Man, just Joe Thornton and Jerome McGinlet together. Oh, my goodness. You talk about two guys. I mean, we saw what Joe Thornton did with, in San Jose with Chichu and no disrespect to him.

But yeah, put him with Jerome Gindla. Oh, my goodness. That would be, that would have been unstoppable. Yeah. No, phenomenal. Listen, we'll end the podcast. Look, and we usually do this week in hockey history, but we kind of felt like this entire episode was like a little trip back in time, right? This whole thing was this week in hockey history. Exactly. So we'll get back to that coming up here when we kind of flip the calendar over to December and stuff. But listen, this was a lot of fun. The kind of, again,

with Black Friday, Cyber Monday, doing the deal-related show. But we got to cut you loose because what you got to head out to a spot to line up for a DVD player? Blu-ray disc, maybe. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a good lead on a beta max.

So I think that's where I'm going to spend my dollars. Oh, I just remember thinking now and I think about it. It was such a big deal back in the day. Did you ever have one of those combination? It was a CD player but also played cassette tapes like a. Yeah. Absolutely. My 16th birthday, man.

Yeah, you could copy your CDs to the tape. It was great. Oh, yeah. It was fantastic. That was, wow, we just really made ourselves sound old. And that's, that's the president. No, it's funny. My wife and I were getting like a new TV.

We're looking at the stand that we have. And she's like, what is that thing? That big black box that's just in there. And I'm like, that's a DVD player. And it's just got cobwebs on it. And it's never been used. It's never been used. No.

But, yeah, if anyone. If anyone needs one, hit me up. I got one available. Yeah, that's right. A little giveaway next time we do an episode. Yeah, that'll be the next, the next E-read reader, listener question of the week. Yeah.

Win my DVD player. And whatever DVD is inside, it's probably Telatubbies. Oh, I was going to say Rockham, Takam 8 would have been in there. Also possible. Yeah. Also possible. Awesome.

Hey, we'll leave it there. Thanks, everybody. We'll get you again next week. I want to remind you, as always, you can drop us an email, the Athletic Hockey Show. at gmail.com, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. If we missed any trades and deals that you wish that we had hit on, hit us up there. We'll tackle it in our next podcast.

Speaking of deals, if you're not a subscriber with us on the print side, boy, do we have a deal for you. Right now, through midnight on the 29th. So right through this kind of Black Friday, into Cyber Monday, all of that, you're going to get the best deal of the year with us with the athletic. Okay? A dollar a month for 12 months. It's the best deal you're going to get with us.

Again, the theme of the show today was deals. We got a deal for you. So a dollar a month, 12 months. All you got to do is visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Once again, a dollar a month for 12 months, just visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.