The Athletic Hockey Show - What’s going on with the Flyers?

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

The Athletic’s Kevin Kurz joins Max Bultman and Sean Gentille to discuss the awful start to the season for the Philadelphia Flyers. Plus, thoughts on the Avs-Stars back-to-back, and reaction to the latest news around the NHL. This episode was recorded live on Thursday, October 15th at 3pm ETHost: Max Bultman & Sean Gentille With: Kevin KurzExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Sean Gentilly for a live episode of the athletic hockey show. Kevin Kerr is going to join us a little bit later on to talk about the struggling Philadelphia Flyers. But first, Sean, we got all 16 games, all 32 teams playing on Tuesday night. We pay the price for that typically. Wait a second. Wait a second. All 32 teams played on Tuesday.

That sounds like. Have you heard about this? It sounds like some kind of frenzy. On Tuesday night, so the Red Wings came out super flat in their game against the devils. And one of the local columnists was in town and was like, you know, Todd, you know, it's big game, Frozen Frenzy. McLean was like, we don't give a shit about the Frozen Frenzy. We don't know what that. We don't know what that is, actually.

But as every year after the Frozen Frenzy, it's a pretty light slate the next night. And on Wednesday, I have to say, I think that kind of worked out for the better. We got two really, really good games on Wednesday night in the NHL, the HBs and the Caps, and then the Stars and the Avalanche completing their second half of the back-to-back. I want to start with the habs and the caps here. You were around the Washington Capitals for a while last week, and so I know you're maybe a little bit capped out, so to speak. But the depth of this team just keeps coming on display. They're playing without Pierre-Luc Dubois.

He's out with an illness. They're in this really back-and-forth game, and yet I don't know that you would have noticed that they were down a key piece because they just come in waves. I think we can thank Frankie Corrado for the breakout game that Jordan Cairo had last night because it was it was some combination of the two of us talking yesterday. That was one of the things that was not rolling for Washington. Like, yeah, the start hasn't been bad, but Cairo had started slow, maybe looked like it was a little bit of a weird match with the Protis brothers on that line.

He had a breakout game last night. He was probably their best forward, right? So I think even though, you know, things aren't clicking on all cylinders for them. The power play has been bad, you know, on and on. There are issues with Washington, but I think last night, obviously against the team in Montreal that everybody loves for a lot of different reasons. I think the fact that they didn't have their best center in that lineup, but they did have to do a little bit of Mexican matching, you know, and still had a pretty, had a pretty dominant five-on-five game against Montreal. Man, that means a lot. And I think getting Kairu going is a huge, huge part of that because, you know, they acquired him to be a difference maker on the top six. And there's there's big plans for what he means, you know, for that lineup, not just this season, but moving forward. And he, you know, looked, looked a little lost in the early going there. But it's a good, it's a good reminder, man. I know, you know, it's October 15th and we want to jump to conclusions and we want to, you know, zoom out and get like the big picture view on a lot of this stuff. And that's fine. That's the way it should be. But it's also still pretty early.

So, yeah, it's really funny, you know, how a slow start can change can change in a hurry. I think that's what we saw from Kyrie last night. Did we do a front office confidence rankings this year around the league? I don't remember if we did one this year. That's a good question. That's who's project? Usually I think that's Dom's Pervian. It's not me.

It's Dom. Yeah. If they did, I would give the Washington Capitol's front office a really high grade right now. It seems like everything they're doing. And even like these pools of players that you're typically very scared off from, right? Like the big ticket free agent contract to Alex Tuck. Yeah. He kind of hasn't gone as well as you'd like, flashy skill player reclamation in Jordan

Cairo. They kind of did this with Pierre-Luc Dubois. Like they're just hitting on all these over and over again. And Tuck has a two-goal game last night. He's up to five goals already in seven. The fear with free agents really is not the first 10 games or the first year or the first three years of those contracts. so I guess we'll reserve a little bit of judgment. But even then with where contracts are going,

I'm not sure Alex Tucket, you know, $10 million is all that scary anyway. Just a lot of hits one after another for Chris Patrick. Yeah. And I see what's the comment from the Locke, A239, pretty dominant five-on-five game for Washington? I feel like that person's being facetious. But yeah, they beat them pretty badly and expected goals on it at five-on-five. That's a game that they should have won, you know, that they won in that phase of play. So, yeah, whether you believe it or you don't, that that's, that's the, that's the way it played out.

And that's, you know, that's what that team wants moving forward. That's a really, really deep group of forwards. It's, it's a word that's associated with them. It's a question that Spencer Carberry has gotten asked that gazillion times over the last, over the last few weeks. But it is, but it is true, you know, four through 12. You're not going to find a better group of that. The issue is, is at the top. And if they can get some kind of, you know, you can get average, you know, first line play from the Dubois and the Tom Wilson's.

And yes, the Jordan Kairz of the world, that that lineup makes a whole lot of sense. But also it's early, you know, we haven't seen them fire on all cylinders just yet. Yeah. And that's a good reminder. You mentioned the comment. If you guys have anything you want us to discuss or anything you want to weigh in on, the chat is available. We will be pulling from it. There's actually one in there that I want to get to right now from Steve, who wants to talk about the HABs, needing to find consistent.

before you fall behind in the Atlantic. On one hand, that is true. Like, the Atlantic is a wagon. You really can't afford to get that much ground. On the other hand, they're still right there. I mean, they're one point out of third place in the Atlantic division. So even though it's a, it's a three, three and one start, it's not splashy for the Montreal Canadians. Yeah, they're, you know, you don't love having to need a shootout to beat Detroit the other night at home. But I have all the faith in the world that the Montreal Canadians come out of this. It's an uncharacteristic game and goal for them last night. Yeah. And I think that, you know, that lack of consistency, you know, that's, you're going to, you're going to have some of that

because they don't have a super duper deep bench of secondary and tertiary scores. Like, that's where that shows up is they need to be getting consistent contributions from the top dogs or else things can start looking a little funky for them. So yeah, I, you know, we all love the way they're built. We all love the way things, things look for them, you know, in the short and medium and in long term. But, you know, there's, there's some, some jobs be won and some, and some growth to be had, and maybe some additions to be made to that lineup for it to make, you know, the kind of sense that it needs to. I was tempted to call this game the Dylan Larkin Bowl when we were

introducing it. Washington, who, who should be able to get him if they, if they wanted to, but they got a lot of young pieces that I don't know if they want to move off of. And the Montau Canaan, who would love a chance. They should just start, they should just start chanting, we went, we went Larkin in every game. against every opponent who cares, who cares whether he's in the building or not. Yeah. Someone will text him. Hey, bro, did you see this?

They want you. They really want. Oh, yeah. Actually, they're on my list now. That's right. Totally. All right. Let's go to the other game this year shot or last night shot.

And then this year, the avalanche and the stars. I feel like in past seasons, this has been one of those matchups that everyone is even in October. Like we have to get these NHO playoff format's broken. We have to get these two teams in a conference final. Look, that still could work out that way. These are still two very talented, very strong teams. But it's interesting that they play this back to back.

They split this back to back. I still felt like the abs looked like the better team in game two of this on Wednesday. They have, they lose the game. They have two goals called back. I'm watching this Dallas team, Sean, and they're still really good. I still think they're a playoff team. I don't know where I think they stack up in the central division now, though. Now that Utah is here, I think Minnesota is at least on level with the Dallas stars.

Like I'm starting to look at this Dallas Stars team and go, were they the third best team in the central? Are they the fourth best team in the central? We talked about them during season preview, season. Say season again. Season preview, season, season, season, season. There's been a, there's been some,

they're not, they're not the offensively deep, you know, one through nine scoring depth team that we've seen in the past. And I think, you know, with Matt Duchesne out of that lineup, He still, they still rely on him for a lot. And we know now that, you know, like, we, we, we saw what they look like without him last season. They're going to have to deal with it again. You know, this isn't, this is a team like, like, look at their third line last night.

And this is no knock on these guys. But it's Artouiri, it's Oscar back. It's Justin, Justin Hercogian, right? Like, these are not that the, the days of Wyatt Johnston playing on playing on the third line and Maverick Bork, you know, like, like moving, moving up and down the, you know, the bottom, the bottom nine, that's, those are over with. You know, there has been some degree of attrition, I think, uh, with the depth that made them, you know, a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, uh, stand out in, in a lot

of ways. And I think, you know, it's going to be a challenge for them to recoup some of that. It's, it's, it is, they're built differently than they have been in the past, even though, you know, so many of those names are the same. It's still Robertson. It's still Rupin's still, you know, uh, Murrow Haskin. And it, it's at the top of it. It's the top things generally, but, you know, the, the down roster stuff has changed for them. And I think they still, to me, seem very much like a, like a work in progress, right? Like, Matthew Shane's hurt and Sam Steele is there, too, see right now. That's, that's, that's, that's tough. It's interesting, because we just talk about the Washington Capitals as this super deep team that

do we love their top end, not so much. Dallas was in that place. And they really, and they had Jason Robertson already. He's even kind of come even more, I think, into that star category. But they, they moved some of that depth. They sacrificed some of it in Logan Stankovin. to be able to get Miko Ranton and Maverick Bork kind of a casualty of all this on the cap, right? And so they kind of made that trade off. And I'm not sure that they're actually better off for it. Some of it is aging to your point. Like you have some of these guys that it's just they're 37, 38 now and it's harder to ask it of them.

But they kind of made a conscious tradeoff to get more of the top end. I don't know that they're better off. I mean, we're still talking about Tyler Sagan is a really important piece for them. Like he's a guy who if they're going to get to where they need to go, they need second line contributions from Tyler Sagan. And he's had two serious injuries in each of the past two seasons. And he's, you know,

the, the history for him in that regard, it's, it's long. So yeah, there's, there are question marks around them. I,

I look at their result last night. You know, it's, it, these are still, obviously, these are two, these are two pretty high in contending teams.

For sure. But, you know, the vibe around them's different. And I, I'm not surprised by it. I think it's something I, I think a lot of us,

I know you included, kind of anticipated coming into the season. And I think yesterday, you know, bears that out. Yeah. I mean, even to go a little bit deeper on them, too, like, you have, you have your, your Artu-Hurus and your Ruscovians, and that's all well and good. But I think what's going to have to happen when the construction is this way is one of two things.

You're either going to have to get big breakouts from those downline-up players. And we see that happen sometimes. We've talked about in Edmonton as some of their downline-up guys. Owen Michaels has kind of started to pop. Or you need your stars to be star-stars. And that's a little bit of the Colorado. avalanche kind of formula, although the avalanche have gotten pretty deep now as well in the last couple years. But if Miro Hayskinan is ready to be like a Norris Trophy winner, which I think

he's been absolutely a top five to seven defensemen in the league for a while now. But he has a game last night and a great goal, he's 25 minutes as always, right, is Miro Hayskin. If he levels up to that level and it's the Werenski factor, the Quinn Hughes factor, that's the other path. So either you either break throughs in your bottom six or your star has got to go nuclear. Yeah, you can make up for some of that. that second layer being, being is, uh,

is questionable as it is right now, but you're not going to make up all of that. Like at the end of the day, they're still counting on Sagan and Duchen and to some extent, Jamie Ben for a whole lot. And yes, if, uh,

Miro Heiskinan, you know, has a Norris finalist year and Thomas Harley figures it out. Like you can recoup some of that value from the back end. But man, I, they, they need the old guys not just to be healthy,

but they, but productive. And I, I think, you know, there's reason to believe based on how the last two years have gone and based on the way the last two weeks have gone that that's that that's a pretty big ask and odd and or two right like if he lives up to kind of his potential i i can't i know i know but i'm just saying it's still in there like

if he gets there that that that solves some of this on the av side of this jaden schwartz like when i saw a three-year deal for a 34-year old jaden schwartz this summer i was like oh man i know the market is what it is but do you have to give out three years well i i look stupid right now he looks great. He's got six points and seven games. Two points come off the board last. But I know. I'm just saying like that it's off to a great start. Yeah. And that's and that's always that we saw them do the surgery that they did on on their on their bottom six, you know, midseason last year. They tried to build the plane while it was in the air by adding guys like wah and in, in reacquiring cadre and, you know, trying to figure out the depth, uh, equation, you know, in March.

and it ultimately didn't work out but they do need you know and I think we saw this at points throughout the playoffs is there needs to be someone in that group

that you can count on when the McKinnon line isn't producing right because they are still really top heavy to to some extent you have natures who may or may not work when he's not on a line

with it with Nathan McKinnon but he is from there then from there he is yeah but but if those if those guys aren't you know, not just, not just winning their minutes, you know, from a territorial standpoint, but if they're not, if they're not putting the puck in the net, then stuff can get kind of fuzzy pretty quickly for them. So yeah, that's where, you know, a guy like Jaden Schwartz or kind of,

you know, continued reintegration of Nazim Khadry, that's, that's where, that's where stuff is, is really important for them because good as McKinnon is and, you know, productive of a player as, is natures has, has become and, and great as Brock Nelson was during the regular season last year, you know, you need that extra layer of playoff production. And I think that tailed off pretty quickly for them once, once, you know, they made it, they made it a little bit deeper last season. I don't want to ask you to scoop your own power rankings before they come out on Friday. Yeah, I've definitely worked on those a ton. Can we power rank the central, the top half of the central here before we go to break? Yeah. Top four teams in the central. Colorado, I think

is still one for me, but then I think it's Utah, Minnesota, Dallas. Where would you quibble? Someone said, and I can't remember exactly who, that like, the gap between good Minnesota and bad Minnesota is, is gigundo, right? Like, that's a team that's, that's high ceiling and low floor. And I think that makes them really interesting. But I do like, I do like you have in Utah. Did you have them second? I have second, but you could argue them first. I think you could, if you wanted to be cheeky about it.

I'm not, I'm not there yet. I'm still reeling from the DeNeil Boots goal that I saw on on Tuesday night during during frozen frenzy. That's that's that's that's the kind of stuff, you know, that it is, it is, it is fun to see. And I think that's sort of stuff that makes Utah interesting, honestly, because there are guys up and down that lineup who I think, you know, the, maybe not the casual hockey viewer, but, you know, someone who's not staying up for, for, for, for mountain time puck drops of it every night. I feel like you can drop in on them and learn something that you, that, that, that you didn't quite have a, have a handle on before. So yeah, I, I, I, I love, I love Utah. I, I think, you know, what they showed during the playoffs last year was,

was, was interesting. And I, I know, I know, I know that didn't go their way, but, you know, the talent that they have at the top of that lineup is, is still, is still pretty wild. And I think, I think, I think they're really well positioned. I don't know if that would, if I would have them first in that division, but I think you could pretty convincing to make the case right now. I think they're the capitals of the Western Conference with actually like a higher upside here because some of their young players, the Gunther's, the coolies, like they could hit that stride that like, oh, totally.

Then you know, that is top end. But they are, I think they're every bit as deep at this point too. So really exciting team, really fun, really fun to watch them. All right, we're going to go to a break. Before we do that, I just want to remind everybody that the NBA season is here. And when you turn on the games, you can turn on the athletic live on YouTube. You become part of the show in the interactive chat along with host Zach Harper, Coffey. Yaboa and the Athletics Best in the Business Writers.

That is presented by Google Gemini, The Athletic Live. Check it out and subscribe now on YouTube. We'll be right back with Kevin Kurz. We are back and we are joined now by the athletics, Kevin Kurz from Philadelphia. Curz, you didn't want to come to Detroit and hang out today? I would have. Actually, I haven't been to Little Caesars in a while. And the arena is great.

So I haven't been there a few years. I wish I had made this. Two really good hockey teams about to play it in a new night too. Yeah. It has been tough sledding for the Flyers in the early. It's been tough sledding for the Red Wings, too. I mean, it's an opportunity for Philly to get their first win of the year for sure. But I think we got to start this one with Rick Tocket and his critique of the Flyers defense here.

We've got some audio that I would like to play. If you watch us last night, there's for instance where our D are two, I can't use the word. They're too, you know what if you've heard the word, I can't say it. I can say it. They're too horny. What's going through your head? as he's vamping there. Like, what do you think he's going to say?

Well, when he's saying, I can't say the word, I'm one of the people saying, just say it. Say it. I'm going to him on. So that might be partly my fault. Yeah, you know, it's like you could have used the word excited. Eager? I think it's the perfect word. I think it would have gone to do dumb things.

You get eager. You do dumb things. I think that's what he's getting at. The word fits. Yeah, yeah. It did. It does. It does.

How big a part of the Flyers problem is that, though? I mean, there's a pie here. There's blame to go around. How much are we apportioning to that particular sin? Well, you know, he was talking about offensively and creating offense, and that's obviously been a huge problem here. And he was, he got it after that quote, he got in about, you know, the fourth man has to get up on the play a little bit.

And we saw him do that a little bit better at times in the Seattle game with Travis Hanheim and Oliver Bonks, a rookie. Jamie Drysdale had a better game. he's really, you know, he's struggled out of the gate like 20 other guys, but, you know, I think that was, that was the main gist of that comment. And he went on to explain that they have to, you know, they've got to start doing different things to create offense. Now, the, the problem they had early in the season was they just never had the puck. And that's still been an ongoing problem. And when you don't have the puck, obviously you can't create offense. But even when they

did have the puck through the first two weeks and through long stretches, of every game so far just about. They haven't just been able to make those 10-foot passes to get out of the zone, to get through the neutral zone and the offensive zone. I mean, it really does look like 20 guys that are playing together for the first time. And that's been the most just baffling part of this slump is because the roster has not changed really, hardly at all, since the end of last season. Yet these guys show up and look like they all just met each other.

So there's a laundry list of problems. you know, maybe what Tocke said is one of them, but you could probably think of a whole bunch of adjectives to go along with that. Kev, we're starting to see some Travis Kineckney stuff percolate. I know, I know Elliot Friedman had some stuff to say about that situation on 32 thoughts. He's saying that maybe there are people in the organization who weren't thrilled with the season that he's had so far. I'm paraphrasing there.

But I am wondering what that looks like from your end of things. I think there's, again, tons of tons of plays. tons of blame to a portion and you know and it that you can't really lay it on on one player certainly but as an established you know high end at times NHL player you know Travis Keneckney's he's a guy who you would look at to help them dig their way out of this and it doesn't it doesn't quite seem like they've gotten that from him so far yeah I mean I can't speak to where that rumor originated from I saw the initial report yeah daily face off you know I Travis Kinekney's in the second year of an eight-year deal.

He has a full no trade clause. And he's not the problem. First of all, he's injured right now. He's probably out for the next couple of weeks. We've seen this team really struggle without him at times throughout the course of his tenure here. This is my fourth year covering the team. Travis Kineckney is a heart and soul guy that kind of is their emotional leader at times. So I find that bizarre.

This isn't a case where Daniel Breyer is going to go to Travis Connecting and say, please waive your no trade clause. Now, let's see what it's like in February. But like, you know, I don't get the sense that Danny Breyer is going to start asking guys to start waive their no movement clauses because the team's not going very well. I mean, he committed to Travis Kine as an alternate captain as one of the leaders of this team. I do still think he's one of the emotional leaders of this team and one of the guys that the younger guys look up to. And they absolutely would love to have them in the lineup right now. Let's be clear about that.

But it sounds like he's going to be out for at least another week or so. And we'll see where it goes moving forward. But, you know, if these guys are going to get this turned around at all, Travis Kinnett, he's going to have to play a huge part of it. Again, if we're in late February, early March and the flyers are, you know, 15, 50 and whatever, then maybe you blow it up. maybe Travis Kine is like, I've had enough of this BS to get me the hell out of here. And that's a little bit different.

But, you know, they're not going to throw the towel on the season, on the season this early. And as ugly as it's looked, and I have a hard time thinking this is a team that's ever going to work. It's way back in the playoff picture. It is still middle of October. While we're talking about blame being a portion, there's another comment here from Claret Colfield that I'd love to get up there because they say, man, I think Tocke has lost his tempo. and players have lost interest in his way of coaching. I think this is a little too easy, too convenient of a scapegoat here,

especially this early in the year. Like, the Flyers got into the playoffs last year on the back of how committed they were defensively. I think that callout that we played at the top from Tocke, it tells you that he knows that. And he's just reminding them, hey, we're not the team that's going to fly up and trade chances and win a bunch of games like this. There was a very clear identity that got them in last year. But I don't know, Kevin, what do you think?

Where's the Tocket factor and all this come in? Well, listen, Rick Tockeet, good things last year. You know, they were, the Flyers had the fourth best record in the NHL after the Olympic break. I think it was 18, 7, and 1. They beat the Penguins in the first round. You know, if you look at the path that the hurricanes had to go through, in the Eastern Conference, the Flyers actually gave them their hardest competition, even though they got swept, you know, and I know the only game they lost was to Montreal, but the Flyers played the Hurricanes tougher than the Canadians did in the Eastern Conference finals, you know, two overtime games.

There was three games where, yeah, you were there, Sean. I mean, three of those games were toss-ups. And obviously, Carolina was the better team in the end and they deserve to win. The Flyers, you know, they probably came out of that series thinking we have a long way to go. But, I mean, it was, it was, it was a good of a second round loss. That's like, sorry, not to interrupt, but like that that's like as good of a second round losses you're going to have is some is is, is, is one where you know, you know, champs to OT three times. Yeah, you, you, you compete legitimately with it with a, with a team that ended up a steamer on its way to the to to to the cup. Yeah. And, and so I think, you know, and. And, and. And both Breyer and Tocket, I think they recognized early on that it might be a little bit of a slow start because they both warned about the team being a little bit complacent coming in to start the season. And I think part of that is on Breyer's shoulders, frankly, for not really making any moves.

You tried. Yeah. I mean, let's say if Leo Carlson's here, does that give everybody an extra jolt to start the season? You know, it's like, hell yeah, we got our top line center here now. Let's go get it. that fell through obviously, it didn't work. But yeah, I do think a lot of this is a case of a young team coming in, just thinking they were going to pick up where they left off in the second half of last year.

And the other thing, too, I mean, a lot of these guys got extensions in the offseason. So you do have to worry a little bit about, you know, they had the contract year last year, right? Trevor Zegris got paid, Tyson Forster got paid, Jamie Drysdale got paid, Cam York's locked up, Dan Bladar's locked up. And not to put, Lodar hasn't been a problem, but those other guys have been at times. So I do think, you know, that's, that's got to be a little bit of a concern right now is, did these guys get too complacent and too comfortable? And has that been why they've, you know, is that a big part of the reason that they're off to a slow start?

I mean, I think it's certainly got to got, I think it certainly has played a role. Now, that's not to say they're going to be terrible for the next six months, but that might have been a little bit of the reason that, they all seem so disjointed early on. No doubt. All right. What is it going to take for them to turn it around from here? I mean, is this as simple as kind of a mindset shift?

Is this something that's going to require? Like, obviously we could talk about the center thing. I feel like I mentioned it every episode that like, yeah, that's like actively trying not to just like point at the center depth chart and be like, oh, that's what their, that's what their problem is.

I know it's not. It's not that simple. And Kev, I think that kind of speaks to the challenge that's facing this team is that there's no lightning bolt, you know, fix here where it's, it's, it's a roster issue, it's a coaching issue. It's a, it's a, there's, there's a, there's a, there's a there's a whole bunch of different things that you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, finding the one, you know, button to push on October 15th, a little bit of a challenge.

If there's a reason for hope, it's that the gold tending has been pretty good, um, other than that, you know, Lidar's had some tough games, but I mean, I, I, I kind of throw the seven nothing game out. out the window because everybody was terrible that game. Ladar's been fine. Joseph Wall has been outstanding so far. Defensively, they've made improvement since the start of the season. The penalty kill has been better since the start of the season.

They are slowly but surely getting back to the defensive structure that I think Tocke wants them to play. But the big question mark, and it's going to be a question mark probably throughout the season, is is this team ever going to generate enough offense to get back in there? And, you know, you're so relying on guys like, not just guys like Zegris and Owen Tippett and Forster getting going, but you've also got Matt Vei Michkoff and Porter Martone. And both of those players have been inconsistent. You know, we saw Mitchcoff come in with a little extra step early on. And I actually think he was one of their better players against Seattle two nights ago. But he's still turning it over a little bit too much. He's still finding himself in the wrong spots and the ice a little too much. Martone is just kind of all over the place right now. And I think he's kind of struggling getting his feet wet here. So, you know, in order for them to score goals, they don't have that superstar score. They have to play a structured team game.

And the lack of the structure so far all over the ice for the majority of the season has just been, again, it's been stunning. You know, even the Seattle game, they all, they all, I think, felt better about themselves because they erased a two nothing deficit. And they could have won that game. you know, you could say maybe they outplayed Seattle, but the first 10 minutes of that game and the last 10 minutes of that game were awful. They just couldn't complete passes. They couldn't get the puck out of their own end. And so, you know, that's why I'm skeptical they're ever going to work their way back in the playoffs

because this feels like it's going to take a little while for them to fix. And by the time they do fix it, if they fix it at all, they're probably going to be too far gone. You mentioned Martone. I mean, he's one goal on the season. I mean, he was a guy who I know small sample size, but as soon as he's in the lineup in those last handful of regular season games and also during what we saw of him in the playoffs, he looked like a,

he looked like a shot machine. You know, like he was a guy who could, who could generate looks himself at a really ultra, again, small sample size, but ultra elite level. And we haven't, we haven't seen that.

Is there a reason for that? Like, is there, something you're seeing, you know, outside of the fact that it's just him getting his feet wet and really, you know, playing his first full NHL season, you know, to, it's to blame there because, man, the falloff statistically has been pretty, pretty steep. Yeah, and it starts with the shot total. I think, I think there was a game, it might have even been his first game. He might have had, like, eight shots on goal. One of those first few games he played, he had eight or nine shots on goal, I think.

I don't even think he has eight or nine shots on goal so far the season. I just looked it up. He's got six. Yeah, so it starts there, and he doesn't have many hits either. So he's not really playing all that physical. You know, obviously it starts with the Flyers' inability to set up anything remotely competent in the offensive zone. But, you know, he's not, he doesn't seem to be creating separation. He doesn't, he seems to be playing a little bit nervous to me, maybe.

But you can say that about all these guys. It's so hard to pinpoint any one problem with any one player because they're all just all over the place. And Target pointed out when Mortone came in last year, that team was obviously humming, right? He came in and they were playing connected. They knew where each other were going to be. They had some cohesion there. And he just kind of took it to the next level. And they don't make the playoffs without him.

Now, with everyone sort of running around and line combinations and a blender pretty much nightly, he's not getting any chemistry with anyone. But yeah, you just, really, he's just been, he's just been invisible nights, a lot of nights because he's not, he's not doing, he's not doing enough to create shot chances for himself. And, and he's, he's just looked a step slow and a half step in decisive at times. So, but, you know, again, you can say that about pretty much all of the forwards. And when, when they're all running around and they're all not connecting on 10 foot. asses, no one's going to look good. Well, I mean, they're, so they're, for, they're down four attempts per 60 at five on five.

Their shooting percentage is more than cut in half. They were at 10.3% last year. They're at 4.8% this season. The, the quality of, of the looks is low. Yeah. So you're shooting the puck less. It's going in the, is going in the net less frequently. And, and, uh, you're, you're getting lower caliber look.

as like the umbrella for all of it. Like other than that, everything is going well, right? That's a, like that's, that's a recipe for, that's how you have the, the worst five on five numbers that,

the most of us have, have ever seen, you know, through a, through a handful of games here. And a lot of it from, yeah, a lot of it for me starts with the back end.

And we do have to say that they're missing two top four defensemen right now. They last, have for the last few games in Ristelining and Cam York. And, you know, the shot attempts are going to be down when your defensemen can't get the puck out of your own end.

And that's why we see a guy like Oliver Bonk get recalled. And he's been immediately put in the top pair. And that's partly because they're missing Risteline in New York. But it's also because they can't, I don't think Rick Tocket can trust David Eurecheck or Simone Benoit as the third pair. I mean, these guys are two big guys that they just have their awkward moments. And they're just, I don't think either of them right now as an NHL player, frankly. So you got Oliver Bonk in your top pair. And he's out there doing some good things, but also making some mistakes because he's a 21-year-old rookie playing in his third.

third, fourth, and fifth career NHL game. But it speaks, I think that speaks to how much trouble they've had getting the puck out of their own zone with their defensemen that you've got a guy like Bonk, who eventually, I think Will does look like he has a strong tool set to become a top four NHL guy. But they just have no one else right now. So it's not all in defense. I mean, the forwards, I think, have been, the forecheck has been non-existent, and that's on the forwards.

So, you know, again, you can go down a laundry list of problems here. But for me, you know, it's getting the puck out of their own end and just getting to being too scrambly at times resulting in turnovers. That's that's been a big problem. Are we going to do a whole flyer segment without talking about Mitchcoff? I'm fine with it. I tried. That's another one. I don't want to talk about him anymore.

He is Kevin Kerr's. Thanks so much for joining us on the athletic hockey show, Kevin. Okay. Thanks, guys. All right, Sean. A lot of games on the schedule tonight. We're back to full fire hydrant. give me your top game number one game you're watching tonight what did i say earlier when we're

talking about this i i i i'll give me sabers leaves i this might be the only time this might be the only time i'm that i'm like actually actively excited to watch them to watch a maple leafs game um yeah there's there's there's something about that matchup that that that's uh that's got that's got me hooked here i i the the the sabers are just you know well they're they're they're they're fun to watch try to figure it out on a nightly basis. That's a boring answer because it's also the first game listed

on NHL.com, but I think that is, I think that is actually how I feel. And then, of course, second place, Flyers, Red Wings. It'll be a barn burner at Little Caesar's Arena. I will say, like, the Leafs are also the exact kind of team that you want to see the Sabres play against

because it's not like the one of these shutdown, like the Dallas stars shut them out earlier this season, right? Because the Dallas Cold can smother you, but Toronto's not going to smother you. Sabers are going to be able to play Buffalo Sabre hockey here, which will be fun. I'm going with the Utah Mammoth and the Edmonton Oilers that we talked about it earlier. I'm toying with the game. See, I wanted to say that, by the way.

I wanted to say that. I didn't want to steal your thunder there, so I had to just default to a game involving the Toronto Maple Leafs, which is shameful by me. That is shameful by you. I think that the mammoth hand the Oilers, their first regulation loss of the year tonight. How about that? Oh, my. I want to see another highlight real goal from my boy, Danil Bout.

I want to see how many times I can say his name between Wednesdays and Thursday for the rest of the season. I'm going to keep a track. I'm shamelessly stealing this from Corey Pranman from Boots draft year. But that's the French word for goal. Like if that guy had been in Montreal or even in like Ottawa, like just someplace that speaks any French, it would have been iconic jersey for the haps. Boo! That's right.

All right, that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show and for tuning in with us live. Prospect Series will be back next week. The Athletic Hockey Show will return on Monday with Lazanai. Until then, thanks for watching and enjoy the hockey.