The Athletic Hockey Show - Which 4 Nations lineup comes out on top?

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Sean, Frank and Sean breakdown the Swedish, Finnish, Canadian and U.S. line combinations and defensive units at the 4-nations faceoff. They critique the look of the Four Nations Face-Off cup and how the players might react to winning it. The boys pick their winners for the tournament, which begins Wednesday night in Montreal, when Sweden hosts Canada, ahead of Thursday night's game in Boston, between Finland and the United States.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? It's the Athletic Hockey Show Wednesday. Sean Jansilly, Sean McEnacru, Frankie Carrado, fellas, Four Nations facing off. It's finally here. There are games today in the tournament that we all love so much that we're all so excited for. Nobody has ever made fun of it.

We haven't made jokes about it. It starts today, February 12th. there's a game later today. What are we doing to celebrate the kickoff of the tournament? What's going on, boys? I don't know if I'm doing anything to celebrate. My day is just kind of the same every single day. But I'll be watching. I will be watching and I am excited for this. I think, you know, like it's been a slow build towards this, but now that it's finally here, like there's a lot of things I just can't wait to see. Like, we can go through all of them, But, like, my intrigue factor is 10 out of 10 right now.

What I'm doing to celebrate is I made a list of my six or seven best hockey friends, and then I invited four of them to come over. What happened to the other two or three? They're just left behind. They're sorry. We're just, you know, we're only doing four. But I'm kind of with Frankie. One of them's Czech and one of them's German, unfortunately.

And I bet the Czech guy and the German guy are like your best friends, too. Like, top of the top of the. ladder. They are. Look, man, I'm mostly with Frankie. I don't know if I'm a 10 out of 10, but I'm, I'm into this. I'm ready to go. It's been almost 10 years since we've had best on best.

If you count the World Cup in 2016, you know, with the weird team North America and all that, you know. I'm still not sure I do. Hold on. Hold on. Before we move on from that, okay, that tournament takes a lot of heat. and people think it was goofy, but all your favorite players were represented.

Anyone under 23, anyone that played for a European nation that wasn't going to be in the tournament, all the fellows were there, all the friends were invited. So you can't hate on it that much. That was like one of my early pivots into being like an old cranky guy

was like the U23 team. I was like, uh, sure. I don't know how much, I don't know how much I like it. The young guns, with a Zed? I wasn't running out and buying a jersey. I'll say that. I don't know. I guess I'm just too proud of an American for that maybe, you know?

This country just means too much to me to have our hockey, our hockey greatness sullied by, you know, the native team into the world. That team delivered an awful lot of entertainment up to and including not knowing the rules and getting themselves eliminated because they didn't understand how the point system work, which I will go to my grave believing was the case. I know they told us, They're like, oh, no, no, we we totally knew what was going on. But I don't think they did. Did people remember that it was Team Europe, like the hodgepodge of European players who played in the gold medal game for that? I feel like, no, people forget that. People sleep on that. And that it was a close game.

And that Team Europe almost won the World Cup, which probably would have been the end of things. I don't know. Yeah. And they got off to a bad start. Like, I'm pretty sure in that term, Team Europe was like, all right, this is a disaster. they're not any good and then they end up playing in the finals. But I think if you went through that roster, like Chara was on that team, Copatar, like pretty good team.

I had to look it up for something a few days ago. Yeah, man, it was it was stacked. That was my big takeaway. It was also how many good Swiss players were on that team? Was Drysiddle on that team? Had he or was he still? Drysdlet. He hadn't fully powered out.

He was on the team, but he wasn't, you know. He wasn't quite dry saddle yet. But if I remember correctly that like Team Canada won and it was a was it a one game final and didn't Brian Marchand score the goal like late. And it's like not well remembered. Like when you consider how many, you know, Canadians at least can like I can close my eyes. I can picture Sid's golden goal. I can picture Mario. I can picture Daryl Sittler winning the like 70s even though I didn't watch it live.

but I've seen enough times. I vaguely remember that I think it was Bride Marchand. That's a good way of putting it vague. Because didn't Canada beat Russia and that was like a big game, a lot of juice in that one. But like, I think people, if they vaguely remember, they'd be like, oh, Canada beat Russia in the final. But there was actually a game after that.

Yep. The final, by the way, it was a best of three. It was. Look at that. Yeah. But it was it was the, it was Bride March. scoring the short-handed goal. Oh, wow.

Okay, so yeah, it was not only that, it was Team Europe was up 1-0 and Canada scored twice in the final three minutes, including a shorthand-a-go with less than a minute to go to win the World Cup. And I have, as you can see, I have virtually no memory other than I had the right player. Yeah, passing recollection of it. Team EOSA's performance, that one we don't need to discuss. Hopefully we can capture that same level of excitement this time. And folks, our big...

Do you remember Team Europe won the semi-final over Sweden in overtime? Do you remember who scored the overtime winner for T Europe? No, I have no idea. Let's try to... Let's pull out a random one. Let's say... Yannick Hanson. Franz Nielsen.

You know what, you guys are pretty close. It was Thomas Tatar. scored the winner. Did someone tell him as a regular season game? From Matt Sugarello and Anzee Kalk Kopitar. Someone told Thomas Tatar, it was a regular season game in March for the 22nd best team in the league or whatever. That's right. Our big hook for the opening here, folks, I have, I know this is going to shock our listeners

because again, this tournament's really, really cool and important. I've never looked at the trophy. I wasn't even sure there was one. I had heard whispers of a trophy, but I hadn't actually looked at an image of it. DGB has sent me an image of it in our little private chat here. I'm going to click on this. You are getting my live reaction to looking at the Four Nations Face Off trophy for the first time. Let's go look here.

Roll, please. Wow. It looks like a trophy. Someone found at a yard sale. this thing is... Come on. Dude. This thing is, it's like generic.

Somebody, at least like well at a little hockey player at the top of it or something. This thing is like, this thing is like something you get for winning a bowling tournament. Okay. But it's, it's huge. I can appreciate the fact that it's like a big trophy. And it's, my, my initial thought was, wow, Mr. Gilmore, what a tremendous looking trophy. Oh, wow. That's a tremendous looking trophy.

Hey, what a tremendous looking trophy. Yeah. I there's you know what I will say frankly this this this photo I'm looking at it's not the scale so is it like is it like three feet long like how big well you got to get I think the the best way to put this trophy to scale is you got to go to pierre lebrun's Twitter and you have to look at the picture that he took of it because he hit the right angle and it looks like pierre is like trapped in the middle of one of those panels on the trophy like his whole head is squeezed into it which is just a, it's a tremendous visual.

If you, if you have time to check that. Oh my gosh. Wow. Right? I had even noticed. It's just hitting the angle perfectly. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what.

The panel's got to be pretty big to, to fit Pierre's dome in it. Like, it's got a big head. Wow. Um, the, and by the way, this trophy is unnamed, which cracks me. Yeah. They just didn't get around to dropping it. Well, they said, they said, in the, in the, in the write up, I'm reading about it. They said it has yet to be named.

So that makes me think that they are going to name it, which isn't even funny. It's actually in trademark. They were trying to get the Yeti. They can't get the Yeti. They're working on it. Yeah. Is there like another random brand of a cup that we can involve with the process here? I don't think there's any hockey trophy.

So that's, is there any like random mountain range we could maybe throw on there? But let's say this. It's better than the 2004 trophy. Shot, do you remember the 2004 World Cup trophy? I just dropped that one in the chat. Click on that and then go back and tell me that first one that you don't like. Boy, I'm like, I'm like tabbed out now. Oh, this one's way better than that one.

It was one of the worst things I've ever seen. It looks like a, it looks like a keg. almost. Like a does, does it not? Like wrapped in like bubble wrap or something for transport. It's, it's,

that looks like, that looks like a fancy beer cup that's like wrapped in plastic. Yeah, you know, you know what it looks like if you played in a bougie men's league where the guys all have some money and they all pitch in to get a trophy, like that would be the final product as far as what they give out, like a like a bougie heineken keg.

That, oh God, it was designed by Frank Gehry too. So like a famous, a famous architect. Oh yeah. They went, they were really proud of it.

And it came out and like every photo of, of Mario Lemieux with that trophy, he's like, he kind of looks like he's holding a baby that just pooped. And then it was never seen again. Like that was it. It was just, it's,

I don't know. It's in, where is that right now? Is it in the Hall of Fame? Would it be at the Hall of Fame? We could find out. I'm going to say either Hall of Fame or bottom of Mario Lemieux's pool. Like,

I don't know if this is like, barnacles and stuff. on it from from 20 years ago. This might be a controversial take too, but I always, whenever I see an underwhelming trophy, I think of the World Cup. And I remember becoming aware of the World Cup when I was eight or whatever

and seeing it awarded for the first time, being like, oh, that's, that's it, huh? The soccer world cup? That's it, yes. Yeah, but it's gold. Is it not? I know, it's gold, but it's like, it's like, as a little kid you look at it.

You're like, that thing's, it's small. I don't know for, I don't know if we're spoiled because of the Stanley Cup or what. What about the Lombardi? Like where is the Lombardi on the scale of, I think the Lombardi, I think the Lombardi silhouette is, is pretty iconic.

And in the, in the silver, silver plating's, you know, awesome. We have a high standard in hockey, though, because we have the Stanley Cup,

you know, all the individual trophies are amazing. Like the Kahn Smyth is beautiful. Like the Memorial Cup, is such a classic as well. I mean, you go through the list and it's like, we're pretty spoiled with some of the best trophies in sports, to be honest with you.

So anything that kind of is like new and thrown in there, it gets that reaction where it just doesn't have the history yet. Underwhelming. But yeah, we get to watch whoever, Captain Sidney Crosby or Captain Austin Matthews to skate around with that thing at some point in the next couple of weeks. So we'll see. Do you think they're going to do the pass or do you think it's going to be like, all right, we're good?

I'm like, you're fine. I think Jack Eichol is going to be clamoring to touch that thing. I think I think probably not. Like I said, we do have games starting this evening. And we have lines now, too. That's what's important. I feel like that is, there's something about that happening. Practices started on Monday.

We're seeing line combos rolled out. For the most part, it seems like they're. steady for the for the for the most part um something about seeing that on monday made me a little more excited for this i think that was like okay it's real here's an example of what we're going to see here's what we all came for you know these these groups especially with it with the north american teams um and that's our plan for today we're going to go we're going to go through the lines of the of the of the big four teams four nations facing off as i said and uh and give our on them. Does that work for you guys?

Oh, absolutely. All right, we're going to start with Sweden. Top that's top. This is interesting right off the bat. And we'll see if we lock in on this flag for the same reason. First line, William Nealander, Mika Zabanajad, Ricard, or Kel. What are our thoughts off that? Wait, do you guys want to go line by line or do you want to read all of them?

Let's do all the four groups? because I think, yeah, some of them there's a question as to what actually is the first line versus. I agree with that. Okay. So we'll let it rip on Sweden right here. First line, Nealander's Abanajad Raquel. Second line, Adrian Kempi, Elias Pedersen, Philip Forsberg. Third line, Jesper Bratt, Joel Erickson, Lucas Raymond.

Fourth line, Nyquist, Lindelm, Arvidson, Leo Carlson as the spare. Okay. My initial thought is they are asking two centermen that have not played well this season to go up against the Canadian top centerman, which we'll get to and the American top centerman, which we'll get to, which everyone knows. It's McDavid McKinnon. It's Eichel. It's Matthews. Like right there alone, I'm like Sweden is at a significant deficit. Like Zabanajad at five on five.

Zabandajat last year compared to Zabandajad this year, totally different players, right? I think last year we were starting to see the signs of it. maybe a decline at five on five, but this year it's really kind of reared its ugly head. And Pedersen, like we know, like he's one of the highest paid players in the league, but hasn't really played to that level.

I mean, that's going to be interesting. I don't know who's driving the bus outside of, you know, Neelander's going to have to do it from the wing. Campi's going to have to do it from the wing, Forsberg. Like Lucas Raymond is a little bit of a driver,

even though he plays the wing. But as far as like high end, offense and play driving down the middle. I think that's where Sweden's at their biggest deficit. Yeah, it's not as scary a group, certainly as Canada in the U.S., which you would expect, but even some of the previous teams that we've seen from Sweden.

And it's, as Frankie says, it's one of those groups that we could have projected this at the beginning of the season, probably pretty accurately how it would play out. But it would have looked better then, primarily because of those two centers who are, you know, both in the,

in the middle of trade rumors all year, in the middle of, uh, various controversies, probably have a lot to talk about on, uh, you know, do you think,

do you think Patterson's already asked like, how's, how's, how's, how's, he good? Does he talk about me? Does he mention me at all?

It probably, I think he, I think he probably mentions him. Yeah. He's come, hey, remember we're going to get traded for each other and, uh,

you, uh, you, uh, you, you, uh, you knicks that with your no trade. I think part of this A part of what's maybe not

disappointing is probably not the correct word But I would have liked to have seen Nealander and Pedersen Like that that's an interesting That would be an interesting If you're trying to load up at the top Because frankly like you said Sweden's coming at this out of such a deficit

Like I don't there's there's not much they can do To make up for what the US and Canada are rolling out there But I would like to see Nealander in Pedersen at some point. And I think when you look at the combos the way they are, stick in Nealander with Sabanajad seems like a bethedge against Zabandad being as bad as he's been at five on five in this tournament. It's like you need to surround Zamanajad with maybe, you know,

Zabinajad gets the best winger on the roster because, you know, he's he's completely struggled to drive anything resembling consistent offense. To your point, if you put Kempi with Zabandajad, like for me, Kempi's a Willie, really well-rounded player, you know, Nielander, right or wrong, Neelander is going to cheat for offense. And there's going to be times when you're, you know, you're stuck in your own zone. And Willie's like, that puck might be up for grabs.

So I'm going to start heading out to the neutral zone. And he does it better than almost anyone in the league. But, like, that leaves Zabandad in his own zone without, you know, for however long it may be, split second. but it makes a difference. He might be better served to have someone like Kempi with him. Willie Nealander does not get six breakaways a game by being a Selky candidate in his own. Low and slow in his own zone, not exactly part of the Willie vocabulary.

Yeah, the bottom, you know, bottom six is what it is. I think I think Joel Erickson-neck is going to be asked to do quite a bit. I would imagine. He's a really good defensive player, but, you know, there's only, there's only so much you can do. Lucas Raymond's on his wing. It looks like he's been playing incredible hockey, honestly, over the last really year and a half. He's leveled up with a red wing. So there's big goals.

Yes, he does. Lucas Raymond, all this guy does is score big goals for that. Remember last year, you know, down that playoff drive they had, he was scoring big goals every night for that team. Mm-hmm. So that's interesting. Like, it just still feels like there are a couple. they're just a couple pieces short. And that's why they should have traded for Rupa Hints like I did as the team Sweden general

manager in our galactically beloved post that was the ones we were going to look at, man. Like that's, uh, it's all right there. It feels like if Sweden is going to have success against Canada and the US, it's going to be built from the back end out. Like they're going to have a decor with headman, Brodine, Ekholm, Forsling, you know, Rasmus Anderson. all guys that are like really good at, you know, shutting down top players,

playing against top players. Eric Carlson, obviously not that kind of defensemen, but he's one out of seven on the back end or one out of, you know, Rasmus Dalin is there as well, who's, you know,

not exactly a quote unquote shutdown guy, but he's really good. Like if they're going to win, they're really going to have to lean on those guys to kind of, you know, weather whatever storm they're up against. I found, very interesting that at least from what we saw from people tweeting out the practice structure

that Eric Carlson was not didn't seem like he was on either of the power play units, which kind of leads to that question of why is he there? What's he doing there? And the reason he's there is because he was one of the early picks. I mean, they locked into him. But it feels like that's a guy that I like him with Echo. That I think is almost an ideal partner for him. But if you're not going to use them on the power play, it's you really start to wonder if you're, if you're setting them up to succeed.

Yeah. And with H.combe, remind you of Bouchard in Eckholm and Edmonton a little bit, like what that dynamic could be like. It's completely. You're just like here, you clean up the mess. Like take take care of business. And it does. It seems like there was some, some, some questions early in the practice week for them because Forre's Ling was sick. but as of as a Tuesday it's forzling dollyne headman brodeen eckholm carlson rasmus anderson is the spare um

i can't i can't find anything i can't find any any holes the punch in that because you have the classic you know you know little i mean the at home carlson is the extreme obviously but i think if you look at foursling dolly and headman brodine you do have you know some guys that can stay back and handle and handle business and have someone, you know, you have the offensive, more offensive-minded and more defensive-minded partners, which I think makes sense. Yeah. That's where they're, that's where they're going to have their success.

They're going to lean on those guys and it's a pretty enviable blue line, to be honest with you. I think you could, you could argue, I don't know if I'd believe it, but I think you could argue that they were maybe, you know, second best group in the tournament, honestly, because the depth that they have on both sides. Yeah. All right, Finland. Team Finland.

First line. Tuvotera Vinen, Sasha Barkha, Patrick Lina, second line, Arteri Leckenin, Sebastian Ajo, Miko Ranton. Third line,

My boy, Rupa Hince, between Cato Kako and Michael Granland. Fourth line, Anton Lundell between Yowal Armea, Etulocerainen. that on on paper especially especially down the middle i mean i people people are slag in finland and i understand for for good reason but i think they have the center depth necessary to i don't know surprise surprise some folks at this tournament am i my crazy there

my brother in christ i just need to tell you i just called a devil's game absolutely and i and i had to look this up eric halla he's you know good player He hasn't had a point in like 21 games. 21 straight games. I'm not going to drag Eric Halle, but it is a significant drop off from the best players to the other guys with Finland. And that's what worries me, right?

Like, yeah, Barkoff were the best players in the league. Ah, ho, same thing. But when you go from like the top tier finish guys to the bottom, not the bottom, the next tier finish guys, like it gets thin in a hurry. Patrick Liney right now, not only is he struggling at five on five, he's playing between like 11 to 13 minutes

on a team that could really use him in Montreal. I mean, you know, you know he's coming in and scoring seven goals in this tournament. Like it's going to happen. He's going to have five power play goals and none of it's going to matter. Just because he's wearing the Finnish jersey. Yeah.

Correct. Do you think they're getting five power plays in a tournament that's designed for U.S. in Canada to meet in the final. That is a great question. I'm with you guys on center depth is great. The top six is good and then it falls off. As far as the question of could they surprise?

Absolutely. Because it feels like we've sort of settled on this consensus of Finland as the unanimous pick as the fourth best team in this tournament. Anyone who's going game by game, you kind of wind up with Finland at 0 and 3. Maybe you throw them like an OT loss or something to get them a point in the standings. But there's nowhere to go but up for these guys. And it absolutely could happen.

It's the sort of team that if we get to the end of this and Finland has done better than expected or even won the whole thing, we're going to be looking at it going, well, yeah, how did we not see that coming? They've got Barkov. So of course they shut down McDavid and Matthews and all of those guys. They've got, you know, Miko Rantinan went nuts. UC Saros played fantastic. And I don't know what I'm saying about the blue line, but the blue line was there. Let's get into that.

They had six warm bodies to throw out there and that was, that's about the best you can say. A. A.L. Lindell is going to play 35 minutes a game. Aza Lindel is going to be in hell for the next for the next eight days. Think about that. Esa Lindel is there, Kailman. McCar. That is their Zach Werenski. And

their power plays, both units right now, do not feature a defenseman because they just don't have it. You got to go through their their D. It's unfortunate because this is best on best, but they don't have Hayskin and they don't have Ristolin. It's a thin

decor by NHL standards. It's a really thin decor by quote unquote best on best standards. Could you make the playoffs in the NHL with these six defensemen as your You're six guys? No way. I don't think you could either.

And again, like, I mean, Mirae Heiskena got hurt. There's, you know, they, they have one of the best in the world, but it's, it's just, uh, you know,

him being out, bumping everyone else up a spot was not good for this team. They don't have a defenseman on the power play. That's, I, I totally, I totally missed that.

I don't know, like only, only got some second unit. in time with the penguins 10 years ago, whatever. He was a stud. He was a stud on the powerplay for the London Knights back in the day. I believe it. But like Finland's power play units are Barkoff, line, hints, ranting, and Aho. That's a great

unit. Like that's going to be a very dangerous powerplay unit. Don't get me wrong. Their second unit is Lendell, Grandin, Lekininin, and Lindell. So they do have one defenseman. Esa Lindel I guess is going to be on the second unit. But that was like a little bit of a, it's a bit of a chug on the finish second unit. I seriously, I wonder if they're just, if they're just,

a part of it's because Esselandelle isn't a powerplay guy, clearly. But also like, that's a way to limit his minutes. You don't have to send him out there for, you know, eight power play minutes a game or whatever. When you know that he's going to, like,

I truly feel bad for what's about to happen to him in UC Saros, both of them. It's going to be 40 minutes a game for, 40 minutes a game for Lindell and UCSaros is going to be, you know, doing cartwheels back. Peter DeBour is going to be watching Essel and Del play two-minute shifts in his own zone blocking shots, being like, I need this guy, man. I don't. Guys, take it easy when this guy's on the ice. Yeah, there's no, there's no, there's no more Cody Cici is to trade for in Dallas, unfortunately. All right. That's leading us into our first break.

We're going to do the North American teams when we come back. Stick around. Hey, it's SG. I want to tell you about connections. Sports edition. It's a new game for sports fans from the athletic,

basically a daily dose of trivia. I love doing it. We've had access to it for months now, the beta edition, and it's become absolutely a part of my morning. I'm obsessed with it. And now it's available to everybody. And I'm a make a lot of it.

excited to see how much you folks enjoy it too. I've done a ton of puzzles. I'm hooked. Play now, the athletic.com slash connections. Time to go through the American lines. Jack Eichel between Kyle Connor and Matthew Kachukh. Second line,

awesome Matthews between Jake Gensel and Jack Hughes. Third line, J.T. Miller between Brady Kach and Matt Boldie. I'm interested to see what we think about that one. Fourth line, Vince Troche. between Brock Nelson and some combination of Dylan Larkin and Chris Kreider. Thoughts? I mean, it should be Dylan Larkin. It absolutely shouldn't even be a conversation.

And I would imagine it's going to be Larkin. The first thing that comes to mind with the American team is what's it going to be like to play a team with two Kachucks? When Matthew is on the ice and he steamrolls someone and then Brady hops over the board's next shift and he goes right back at you. I think this is pretty fascinating to see what a team with these two guys might look like and how hard is it to play against that when, you know, we know what these guys can do when they're alone with their teams, but when they're together on the same team, like, how overwhelming is that? Because I think that's going to be pretty significant. And interestingly, at least to start not on the same line, which I think a lot of people were wondering if we get to see that,

But instead it's just going to be oops all kichooks on the ice as far as the ice time. I mean, you're probably going to get about 40 minutes worth of those guys out there every day. So it will be interesting to see that. This is a great group. I mean, this is, they are deep. They have, we're talking about Larkin or Crider. Either one of those guys would be probably top six on the other two teams. just talked about potentially.

So there's, this is a excellent group. The best American team of all time, I think top to bottom and probably forwards, I would think.

Maybe I'd want to go back and look at the 96th team or some of the Olympic teams, but this is, you know, the U.S. hockey has been building to this and it's, it's a really good group.

And, you know, again, this is one of those. where we can argue over which is the top line, the Eichol line or the Matthews line. But the reality is they're both number one lines. The Americans have a couple of them.

So good luck figuring that out if you're one of the other teams. Who would the center be for the Kachuk line? Just make him Miller. Just go all in. Have J.T. Miller between both Kachok's. I think that's what it has to be. I think you pulled dad out of the stance at that point and just hit him, take the face off and go get it, boys.

Yeah. You know what comes to mind, though, with the way the U.S. has kind of formulated things? They're going to go down the middle of the ice. Ikel, Matthews, J.T. Miller, Vincent Trocheck. If there's ever a situation where they don't get a matchup that they love, they'll be okay. You know, like all those guys at various points are the guys that go head to head against the best lines. Like Trocheck does it. Miller has done it and been really good at it. And of course, Matthew, I do it all the time. So I think any way you want to play it against this group, they're going to be okay. And they're not going to have to worry so much about a hard matchup because of who they're going to throw over the boards down the middle of the ice. Frankie, is Larkin playing on the wing for you or did you find a way to actually get him in the mix, maybe it'd forcey over Trowcheck? I kind of, I like Larkin at center just because, like, and Trochechick's a fast player. Like, I don't think he gets enough credit for how fast he is. He really is.

but I don't know. I like Larkin down the middle of the ice. I think he, I don't know, drives play is such a, such a buzzword. Like I think there's a lot of people that use it that don't even know what the hell it means. But like I think for Larkin, he is such an engine for Detroit. And I would like to see him do that same thing here. But we also could see a situation where maybe Larkin's taking faceoffs on one side, Trochecks taking faceoffs on the other side.

The other thing you have to give in mind is Trochex is one of the best faceoff guys in the NHL. Right. So it would feel like a little bit of a waste to not have him taking every draw that he's on the ice for. So with that being said, like, you know, you'll take in that situation because Trochec is that good, you might just take him in the center ice spot and say, you're Larkin, you're going to be a speedy winger now. And I think he would be pretty good at it. The two things that jump out to me on that fourth line. First of all, you know, I agree with everything you guys said about Dylan Larkin. It's got to be a little tough to look at this as a Red Wings fan and see that your best forward, the guy that you have built your organization around, is a dicey bet to be fourth line in a best-on-best tournament. That's, you know, that maybe tells you all you need to know about the ceiling of the Red Wings. The other thing is, did you guys see Brock Nelson's official tournament photo?

It's like people just realized what Brock Nelson looks like, that he looks like an old-timey hockey player. I guess you don't need that one. People aren't looking at it is people don't know it as much. If you just threw that up there and said they're remaking Slapshot, like people would be like, yep, that's right there. That's the guy. I feel like his trade deadline value just dropped from first round to second round pick based on that photo. Unless you're a big believer in old man's strength, in which case maybe it went up.

He definitely looks like he took that photo, immediately stepped out of frame, and like lit a smoke. Reached into his reached into his pocket and offered you a Werther's original. Cardigan, cardigan, fedora. Yes.

Right there. Yeah. Whole nine, whole nine yards. Yeah. And Sean, I'm with you. I'm with you on a Larkin thing.

I'd love, like I said, I'd love to find some way to get him to play center because we've seen like, all-star game, Dylan Larkin playing harder than everybody. Like, I'm interested to see like what he looks like in the

largest role possible given how much he's shown at times in similar in similar context but yeah that's uh that's interesting defensive groups jacob slave and adam fox zach warrenski charlie macklevoy noah aniffin brock favor jake sanderson is the spare i mean it's a it's a huge loss not having quin hughes man i was trying to think of this like Hughes not being there for the United States. If there was any player in this tournament that would have been the biggest loss to their team or the biggest loss in general,

is it Quinn Hughes, based on everything that he does? It's debatable. He's definitely up there. Like, that's not the guy that you... It's probably Miro Heiskenen, by the way. I guess... It already happened. Based on who Finland has,

yeah, you're probably right. But like, you know, okay, so you don't have Quinn Hughes. Everyone's going to be asked to do a little bit more. And everyone there will be able to do a little bit more. But that's a nice, like, it's a really nice blue line. Like Jacob Slavin, one of the better shutdown guys in the league, Zach Wrenski having an unbelievable year. Noah Hanofin's really good in a lot of different situations.

And the right side of the ice. Like, you have some sandpaper, you have some pucking ability. You have minute munchers. Like, I just, there's no, there's no weakness on that blue line, even without Quinn Hughes. And if you think about what a, what he brings to the table, what you lose for them to kind of look at it and say,

we're still in really good shape. I mean, it's a credit to the guys that are still there and playing. And Jake Sanders, it's a real good player. Like it's, I know he's younger. So maybe some people might view this as like,

oh, they're just bringing the young guy to give him some experience for future. It's, it's not that. I mean, he, he'll be ready to go. But you're right.

Like you just lose that that game breaker back there. Like there's all six of the guys they're going to be putting out there fully deserved to be on a best on best tournament. I don't know that maybe other than that in Fox, there's a guy that you're going to say, you know what? That was the Quinn Hughes game last night. Hey, when Quinn Hughes is on, what can you do? And that is something that I think is missing from this blue line. and you know unfortunately it's just a case where you know the americans just don't want it bad enough to play through injury the way that uh Sidney cross being the canadian suit.

Oh stop it. Oh stop it. This guy. It had to. It had to start at some point, man. It's fine. I'm ready for it. I've been training for 10 years for this.

Frank, I do, is Adam Fox the guy to replace Hughes on the on the power play? I would think so just based on his his track record in the past of, of, running the power play. Like, and, but here's the thing. Like, I don't think you can go wrong with Zach Wrenski because of how good he's been this year.

Um, but I, I think, and my initial thought is it would have to be Adam Fox. Like he's just, he's too good at the blue line, um, shifty, deceptive. And I think with Quinn Hughes, like, we know he brings all that to the table. But if I want to be able to beat someone with a pass, you know what I mean? Get you going one way, pass it the other way. That, that kind of play. I think Adam Fox can do that more. often. And that's something that Hughes does really well.

Interesting. All right. We've saved the second best roster in the tournament for last. Just the Canadian lines. Conor McDavid between Sam Reinhart and Mitch Marner, which I've been thinking about since I saw that revealed yesterday or whatever it was. Sydney Crosby between Mark Stone and Nathan McKinnon. We also have had McKinnon playing center on that moments throughout practice. Braden point between Seth Jarvis and Bradshaw. Anthony Sorrelli between Brandon Hagel and Sam Bennett. Our thoughts.

My biggest takeaway with these lines is that every line has a really good defensive winger. Reinhardt, Stone, Jarvis, Hagel. Like every line, we talked about the U.S. being well suited down the middle of the ice. Canada has that, but Canada also has like a really good defensive winger, which I think is pretty unique. It makes them hard to play against, which, you know, in a tournament like this, there has to be that kind of element, but in the right way, right? Like, it's not hard to play against going to try and run you through the boards. It's like hard to play against because I'm in your way. I'm in good positioning.

And it was just, we're very responsible and there's no room out there for you. So I think Canada has that down the middle. And at least on, you know, at least on one wing, they are, you know, very well equipped defensively. If you're Sam Reinhard and you can't score a bunch of goals on this line, I don't know, man, because you've got the best player in the world and one of the best set up guys. And you're somebody who scores a ton of goals even without that. So what jumps out to me with Canada is I will admit that when they announced the roster, like a lot of people, I looked at it and I said, you guys aren't necessarily bringing the,

your best guys, your best skill guys. You're more going down a list of roles and taking the best guy for a role maybe, but not necessarily the best 12 forwards that the country has. And I was a little concerned about that. And seeing the lines laid out, I got to say I feel a little bit better. I got to say I kind of look at it and go, you know what? That fourth line is a fourth line. In a best on best, that's a fourth line.

That's not four guys who can also go out and get 30 goals a year, you know, and generate extra offense. That's a fourth line, almost an old school checking line or at least whatever the 2025 equivalent of that is. But I don't mind seeing it now better than, you know, when it was just a list of guys. I get, I get what you're saying about that fourth line. Anthony Sirely has 20 goals and 50 games so far. Yeah. Like, it's tough. Brandon Hakel's got, what, 60 something?

points this year? Like he's in the low 60s? I love I love the bottom six and and also like I this is all this is all true Sam Reiner is an elite defensive winger. He should be on Selke ballots does a ton. We're talking about him as like the third guy on that wheel or on on that on that line the elite defensive winger. He's got an 88 regular season goals since October of 2023 and was whatever. Maybe they're their their second best forward during a during a couple of final. And he's about to play, Sean, like you said, with the best player in the world and the best playmaker in the world. Like, I think that element more than anything else in this tournament is, is what I'm psyched to see, is what Sam Reinhardt looks like as the left wing on that line. I'm like,

I'm fascinated by it. I saw it. I saw it on Monday and it was like, oh, okay, I get it. That's, that's why people like this roster so much. So you're more fascinated. to see that than seeing Sidney Crosby and Nathan McKinnon play together on the same line because I'm not sure there's two players that have never played a shift together before that would have more chemistry already cooked in. If you think, you know, the training in Cole Harbor, these guys go to Vale, they do the training there. They've known each other forever, but they've never played together before. And now we get these guys together on the same line. Like, I feel like we're going to get an inside peak. behind the curtain as far as what that is like,

like all those legendary things that you hear about. And I think it's going to be incredible. Watching those two guys, like communicate with each other, make plays, read off each other. I think that's what a lot of people would want to see. Or it's going to reinforce Sydney Crosby's reputation as the hardest guy to play

with in the history of hockey. You know, the penguin, how many guys have we seen the penguins bring in? And, you know, it was basically Chris Kudens was the only guy who could do it. And if, yeah, you're right. If it doesn't work with Nathan McKinnon, I don't know, man. They do have Brad Marchand who did play well with Crosby internationally.

So, I mean, he's not on that line right now, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him. Sid shifted to the wing for a little bit in practice on Tuesday for McKinnon, which says, I don't, that says it all. When are you ever, when are you ever going to see that with anybody else at any point in his career? never never never would have happened you know what the thing is like when they rolled that line out and they had mckinan on the wing i wonder if a part of them was like listen crosbie's a great centerman but nathan mckinin you could make the argument has been the best center in the nchel the past two seasons like over connor macdavid and so why would you move him from a position of strength to put him on the wing which i don't know how uncomfortable that would be for him i'm sure he'll

pick it up quickly. But when you have arguably the best center of the last two seasons in the world, how do you not have him down the middle of the ice? Because he's so dangerous in that role in that position in that situation. Just glad that combination of players isn't going to cause any obnoxious trade rumors to brew up over the next month. People are going to be really normal about Sid and McKinnon playing together. We're going to watch it for eight days or whatever it is here.

And everyone's going to move on and forget about it. We're not going to try to mock up trades to get Sid to Denver for the next three years. I'm certain of that. I'm ready to go on Friday's post. That's the, that's coming to the athletic on February 24th or whatever. Canadian defensive pairings. It's our last little positional group that we're talking about here. Devontes, Kiel McCar, shocker, Shay Theodore, Drew Doughty,

Josh Morrissey, Colton Perico, Travis Sandheim is despair. Who do we like there? Well, the fact that Drew Doughty slides right in, and I think he's going to play a prominent role right away, just speaks to the fact that this guy is a, this guy's a certified

dude. Like, he's missed all season, comes back, plays a handful of games, plays 27 minutes, and it's like, is he not, like, in the ultimate gamer, Drew Doughty? Like he's just everyone's going to look to him for leadership, all that kind of stuff. I think it's a no-brainer having him there considering that he came back. And it was like, yeah, I basically, it feels like I've been playing all year.

I'm good. Yeah, certified dude. Keep an eye on your mailbox through the certificates on the way. You got to design a terrible trophy to present to the number one dude from this tournament, no? Yeah. It's, this is a good group. it's not a great group. And, you know,

it might be the Kail McCar Show. But there's no, like there's no weak spot here. I don't think Colton Pereko still stands out to me as a guy. I'm surprised was on this roster, but, but okay. It's,

it's not the strongest team Canada blue line that we've seen. but unlike the Americans without Quinn Hughes, they do have that Dale McCar factor of maybe he just is the guy that wins one of these three games that you're going to need to win to get to the final. They have the alpha alpha dog

at the top of the lineup. It's not like the most robust group I find. Like it's good. They all skate well. They all move the puck well. Like they're just, it's a lot of like nice players. You know,

and I guess the size. is going to be coming from Paraco, and I don't know how much Sanheim is going to play. But they've kind of gone with like the, everyone's well-rounded. Everyone can play with the puck. You know, there's not like a real sense of

you're defined doing this. It's everyone can do a little bit of everything back there. What are, this is our last, this obvious, our last show before the, before the tournament starts. Let's,

let's make some picks. Have we even done this officially yet? I feel like I feel like I've done this. I feel like I've done this in a post on the website. But who are our picks for? I've done this enough times that I'm picking a different winner in every spot to guarantee. That's the veteran business right there. What do we got?

Okay. I said last year at, I can't remember if it was for agent frenzy or trade center, I had picked the Americans based on who was presenting their teams in our TSN studio. I looked at both of them. I said the Americans are going to win. Based on these teams that we have now seen selected, I'm going to pick Canada, but I think it's going to be slim, slim, slim, slim margins.

Like a one goal game, maybe an overtime. And I just think McKinnon, and here's where I'm at, McKinnon is pushing up to McDavid as far as the best player in the world. And Canada is going to be able to throw those two guys, you know, out there for half the game essentially. I just, I look at that and I'm like, it's not, it doesn't, not everything revolves around that, but I'm like, I can't look past it, basically. And so that's, you know, I kind of lead towards Canada because I think they can, they can find an extra goal when they need it.

So I've been doing this show, listening to this conversation, discussing it with you guys, and I find myself getting more and more confident as a Canadian. and I was trying to think like, why, why is that? Why is this making me feel so good? And then I realized we just did all the rosters without talking about the goaltending. And that's what brought me back to, brought me back to Earth.

I am picking Team USA. I just think the gap in gold hending is too significant. I say that with the obvious caveat that it's hockey and who knows. Sam Montembow could show up and outplay Connor Hallibuck. Absolutely. In one game, if it comes down to that, Yeah, of course he could. But when you've got

Connor Hallibuck, not just playing at a Vezna level, but at a MVP level, I just think that's too big an advantage to overcome, given that Team USA lines up. But the other 18 spots, I don't think quite at Canada's level, but not that far off.

So I'm picking Team USA. And as a Canadian, you know what? That'll just set up the stakes even higher for for next year at the Olympics and uh it'll be uh it'll be even bigger than is what i'm telling myself so you're the tiebreaker john man i keep coming back to the fact that connor hellabug hasn't played 68 hockey games this season yet right like that's that's the that's the difference for me because we know we've seen them in in the playoffs the last the last couple

years. Those are, those are some performances that I've, that I've thought about in this, in this tournament, because Connor Hallibuck, you know, to varying degrees over the last two years, has struggled in the Stanley Cup playoffs. There's no, there's no way around it. I am choosing to attribute that to his workload and not anything larger than that and just saying, okay, this guy plays way too much, they lean on him way too hard. He was out of gas against Colorado last year. That's it. And that's what, that's how I'm writing it off. And I'm saying it's still February. that guy is in prime prime form. And I am looking at that group of forwards for Team Canada,

which somehow only gets scarier when you see it in line form, as we've said, you see the combos and it's like, how is like what's anybody supposed to do with this? Pure Homer stuff from me, I don't care. Connor Hella Buck MVP puts the team on his back, single-handedly wins at least one of the games against Canada. the US wins gold or whatever, the unnamed trophy, whatever we're calling it.

Bring it home, baby. And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free. Keep going. How much of that can we do before we get a copyright strike here? I don't know anything past that. That's all unvicturing playing in your head when you say that. It is.

I should have like, I should have like unfurled a fly. flag behind me. Flapping in the breeze. Yeah, man. A balled. The eagle flew by in the background. Goaltending.

Yeah, screaming. Goaltending counts. US has an edge there. I'm taking, I'm taking whatever I can get. I love it. It's going to be tight. It's going to be close.

I think it comes down to Canada and the U.S. I think Sweden's a step behind. And, you know, I feel for Binland because obviously injuries decimated them. But it's going to be, it's going to be really cool to see Canada and USA play. And the intensity that that game's going to have. I think it's going to be, there's going to be a lot of juice in that game.

Mm-hmm. And tournament starts obviously tonight, Wednesday. It's Canada against Sweden and Montreal. Game one, we got a bunch of good stuff over the next week. I think I've talked myself into being excited about this officially with your guys' help. So thank you both. Frankie, we'll talk you next week, man. See you guys.

Can you hang out over? Are you doing any work for this? Or can you hang? I got some radio, some sports center. Nothing crazy. I'm around. Good. enjoy it but we'll talk you next week all right sean we're back uh what i've learned this

week what have we learned sean uh louis ericsson retired from the n hl this is what the release is how the release phrase it louis ericson has retired after 16 nchl seasons we're going to gloss over the fact that that last season was in 21 22 um i think maybe somebody i think maybe the league retired for him yeah but i mean there was a and i'm also going to ignore the run in Vancouver because I know he he was a bit of a whipping boy for for Canucks fans. Louis Erickson on the Dallas stars towards the end of the of the odds like 08, 2009, 2010, maybe into 2011, man, he was a really good player. And I associate Louis Erickson with that was back then I had access to NHL game center or

whatever it was for the first for the first time. And I could really watch players across the league whenever I I wanted to. And I found myself watching Dallas more often than you'd expect. And I think, you know, I think that era in general is what led to Louis Erickson holding the crown is the, you know, the most underrated player who eventually becomes overrated because everyone talks about how underrated he is, you know, too much. I think Louis Erickson held that held that belt for a little bit because this is my pet theory because that is when everybody started watching NHL Game Center live and had had access to all the games because he really was that good

for a little bit so he was he was a fun he felt like it felt like seeing a band that nobody else was watching because a we didn't know how the internet worked at that point and be he was on some pretty whatever whatever Dallas teams so happy trails yeah and then the band got traded for tyler's again uh and and that was not quite it because he was good in boston for the one year, but yeah, happy retirement to him. I would like to also announce my retirement from Grantland. That has become official because I didn't know you could do that. What I learned this week, it's not so much what I learned, but what I was reminded of. And unfortunately, it was because the gentleman passed away, but it's Paul Morris, who was the PA announcer at Maple Leaf Gardens

for basically forever. And was a, if you're a Leafs fan, you should know the name, you definitely know the voice. And even if you're a fan of other teams, and certainly in Canada, you know, a lot of fans, even of other teams grew up watching the Leafs on Hockey Night in Canada because that was the Saturday night early game. And you would hear Paul Morris.

And it's just such a distinctive style. If people either don't remember or maybe you're a little too young for it, he had this very nasally voice and he would announce everything in monotone. There was no excitement. There was no, you know, it didn't matter if it was a milestone goal or someone had a hat trick or it was overtime. And compared to today, where everybody's got a gimmick, everyone's screaming at you all the time and telling you you got to cheer and this and that. like Paul Morris was he would go he would stay monotone and the other thing he did was back then uh you know Norris division leaves lots of fights lots of brawls bench clearers even he would announce every single penalty and he would correctly he didn't do this like hey both players

get five for fighting you didn't do double my he would do if you got a double minor it was a minor and then a second minor and he would announce the whole thing and if that meant that he had to go for 25 minutes, like through an entire intermission because there's been a problem at the end of the period. He would just go. Every single leaf fan of that era had the impression of like Paul Morris announcing Wendell Clark's game seven overtime Stanley Cup winning goal. He was just a legendary part of being a fan in that era.

And, you know, we will, we will miss him for sure. He had not been doing leave games for a while. He had been kind of, I think you could. they pushed out when they had moved to to the new arena when they moved out of the garden 99. Although they would occasionally bring him back or they occasionally play the clip of him

announcing the last minute in the period. I hope they keep doing it because I still want to hear that voice because it's just he and Bob Cole are the two voices of my hockey childhood and I'm not ready to let him go. it's well said

the rink announcers those guys are always John Barbaro was was the guy at the civic arena and then even even into

even into console man he was I can still I can still hear him calling Mary Elamue goals and Yarmie Yager goals too there's something about those voices that that sticks with you

and man sounds like Paul Morris was the best yep all right that's it for us we're back next week a little bit of a surprise from Frankie. I think we're going to have an even more

Frankie-centric episode next week. So we can just chill, you and me. Just let him talk, run through the old dudes team, which is coming up. Thursday is Laz and Rob Rossi. Me and Haley are both out that day. So enjoy those two on Thursday. God knows what they're going to talk about.

And we're back next week. Thanks for listening.