The Athletic Hockey Show - Which NHL rebuild is closest to the Stanley Cup?

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

On today’s Prospect Series episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, the full squad, Max, Corey, Scott, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters deep dive into Corey’s NHL rebuild ranking and discuss why certain teams are closer to contention than others, goaltending impacts, potentially tradable assets, and more. Hosts: Max Bultman and Corey PronmanWith: Scott Wheeler and FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here, alongside the Athletic Scott Wheeler and Corey Prondman and Flohockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's prospect series. We got the whole gang here together today to talk about a, well, we're going to talk about Corey's article that he did on this, but we're also going to talk about the topic more broadly. The article is ranking NHL rebuilds, which teams are most likely to be contenders that came out earlier this week on the athletic. Very worth your read.

If you haven't gotten to it yet, I'll just give you the quick rundown here, the rankings. Chicago number one, Ottawa number two, number three is Anaheim, four San Jose, five, New Jersey. There's your top five. From there you go, six Utah, seven Buffalo, eight Seattle, nine Montreal, ten Minnesota. And then the back, bringing up the rear, 11, Columbus, 12, Detroit, 13, Philadelphia, 14, St. Louis, 15, Calgary, 16, Pittsburgh. A lot to digest here. And we're not going to do everything just about the article here. But Corey, right off the bat, what did you hear the most in the wake of this article?

Well, I don't know how much I really heard. Like a lot of the articles I've done in the last few weeks, the amount of, we'll call it constructive criticism, that was a little overwhelming to where I probably couldn't tell you exactly where the main or most complaints were coming from. I can tell just by looking at our numbers that there seems to be a lot of interest in this article, or some of my most recent league-wide articles from the Montreal fan base, I think they feel like they've been underserved in the pipeline rankings.

And in my assessment of where they are as a rebuilding team, it's fair to say I think they think within the Atlantic Division compared to Buffalo compared to Ottawa. I think their fans feel like they are at least at the same spot, if not ahead of some of those organizations. Whether I agree or not with that is what we're going to get into. But I would say that was probably the main feedback I got from that as well as probably about my placement of New Jersey, which I'll get into later. But keep in mind the context of this article was not, who do I think is going to be the best team next year that you're after that. I think New Jersey of the non-playoff teams last year is clearly the best roster right now. I think are a likely playoff candidate going into the next NHL season.

But my idea is which of these organizations is most likely to win a Stanley Cup in the next 10 years. And that is a good kind of parameter here because there are different stages of the rebuild, right? Montreal certainly much earlier in their rebuild than a Buffalo or an Ottawa or even a Detroit here. But we are going to try to kind of compare them as equals under those parameters. Maybe the 10-year thing, right, there's still going to be an advantage, I guess, the teams that are going to enter that window sooner. But I do think the Atlantic is a good place to start, maybe partly for that reason, because it's kind of, you know, central station for rebuilding in the NHL over the last five to seven years.

And Chris, I'm going to start with you here and just throw this to you, these bottom four teams that are all kind of rebuilding, Detroit, Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal. How do you kind of, I know they're all different states here, but how do you kind of handicap the way that these rebuilds are going for these teams? Yeah, you know, I think in a lot of these cases, what I'm looking at, and maybe this is, is how, you know, I don't necessarily always view things the same way as Corey does, but I think I look at all of these and I say, where is the centerpiece? Who is the centerpiece? How good is the centerpiece of this rebuild? And I think if you talk about a lot of these teams and you compare them not with each other, but with the top, you know, the teams that are kind of more towards the top, there are more easily identifiable centerpieces. Now, Montreal is an interesting

team because they may have something like that. It could be your ice Lovkovsky. It could be Ivan Demadov. I think that that's that'll remain to be seen. But I think that really what it comes down to is that very top of the lineup, the guy that is going to drag the rest of the team with them. And we've seen plenty of rebuilds stall out because that one star didn't really become the guy. You know, I think back to Buffalo with Jack Eichael as an example, which is, it's always difficult with the injury kind of thing that happened there. And obviously he's been a great player for Vegas. But, you know, when it doesn't pan out and that centerpiece doesn't go as high as you think they'll go in terms of where their pure potential, then that's where you have some problems. And I think like that's as I look at, you know, especially Detroit right now, I look at, you know, we think there's some quality there.

We think there's some real, you know, Moritz Sider and Lucas Raymond have, you know, some real potential there. Sebastian Kosa may be the goalie of the future. I think it's still early to say that he's a bona fide starter the whole way. And so without that, it really becomes difficult to see, you know, how they stack up against a team that would have, you know, like let's use, if you go over to New Jersey, Jack Hughes and Alu Q's, you know, do you have that? In your system, you also look at how Detroit is drafted since they've had their higher picks. And it's a lot of the same guy at some point, too. And so there's, you know, and those aren't necessarily the kind of players that I think you can build a title contender around so much as you can build a serviceable NHL roster around. So that's the kind of thing that I look at.

And I think the, you know, the same thing with the Sabers is Owen Power the centerpiece. Is Rasmus Dahlin the centerpiece? and if they are the centerpiece, are they good enough relative to the others? And I think you could argue that maybe they may not be. And again, you can have top picks. A number one overall pick is not always going to fix it

unless there's a baddard, there's a celebrini, there's something along those lines. And as good as Owen Power was, as good as Rasmas Dahlene was, are they that caliber? And you can say the same thing about Demodon. about Ryan Bacher, about, you know, any of those players.

And that's where I think that the, they lag behind some of the other teams that were higher on Corey's list. So I get it from that standpoint. So do you agree with Ottawa one among that group? I'm on the fence about it because I think that the, I think that that's the same. I have the same argument as them. I don't believe that Tim Stutzler or Brady Kachuk is in that, is in that same tier as, as some of these other rebuilds. building teams. I think Jake Sanderson is a centerpiece, you know, a core defenseman that'll be really good. Obviously, they have Allmark, which changes their more immediate window. I think their

long-term window to me is very much cloudy at this point. But I think if you put them all together, yes, they're further ahead. You don't think Stozo is as much a building block as Sanderson is? Yes, I do. No, I do. I do. But I also think neither of them are in the top tier of building blocks. Interesting. I would disagree on Stubzel. I mean, the guy is, what is he? He's great. He's great. He's not going to come close to Connor Bedard or McClabrynia. I promise you that. I mean, that's definitely possible. I think the guy is pretty special. The interesting conversation with me with Ottawa is that I think we would all agree that if you're talking strictly prospects that Buffalo, Montreal, Detroit have stronger pools, but is, to Corey's point, is Tim Stutzler the best player from those four groups? And to your earlier point, Chris, if, if, if, you if you're talking about strictly the guys, Ottawa has almost not, but beyond Carter Yacchunchuk has almost nothing coming behind Sanderson and Stutzla and Kachuk and Ridley Gregg and Shane Pinto.

But Stutzel, is Stutzel the best player from that group? Like, is he going to be a better player than Demadov, then Dahlene, then Slavkovsky, then Moritz Sider. And I think there is a compelling case to be made that of that group.

I mean, Dahlin's a very, very good player. But of that group is Stoetzl the one who can elevate and become the best of that bunch. All right. Here's a question for you guys. Because I think we would all agree that guys like that are the hardest piece to find. Is it a true one for one though that the team that has the best player as the best path to a Stanley Cup? Like is that, are we ready to say that that's like a one for one?

like that whoever has that guy is the best position to win the cup because I don't know that that's always how it works out. And that's not how I would approach it either. I think it's a significant variable. I would say I would be hard pressed to find a Stanley Cup winner or even a Stanley Cup finalist that didn't have at least one truly elite player on it. But when trying to build a hockey team relative to the other major pro sports, you definitely need depth of quality players.

and that's absolutely a massive variable I consider when trying to stack up organizations against each other. They have to have the depth. And, you know, Scott just mentioned their prospect pool, say, in Ottawa, isn't very deep. Absolutely very true. But when I look at the organization, I look at the young players in the organization. You look at, you know, whether there is, you know, guys like Shane Pinto or Josh Norse or Ridley, Greg, upfront or on defense, you mentioned Sanderson, but now you have Sanderson and Yakovych and Thomas Shabbat as a potential build.

defense group they can build around. That to me is what I more holistically looked at, but I do think the elite players is a significant variable. And I think all these organizations we mentioned actually do have elite players in them, but there were some other organizations.

I think, well, and I think the ones that were more towards the bottom were the ones that more concerned me. Whereas I think with Detroit, there might be one elite player. With, like, say, Columbus I saw. There's only one elite player. And that to me is a significant concern. I want to go to Buffalo here, Scott, because a year ago, I think I would have said this was the team in the Atlantic whose future I like the most.

And then Tage Thompson's follow-up year to his huge breakout wasn't quite as strong. Owen Power is a really, really good player, but maybe it's not moving quite as quick as I might have hoped. Rasmus Dahlene is certainly Rasmus Dahlene. But have you moved it all on Buffalo's system, including the guys in the NHL already, at all over the last year? Yeah, I think to your point, it wasn't even just Tatea. taking a step back. I think people in Buffalo and around hockey expected Dylan Cousins to be better last year than Dylan Cousins was. If you look at the core of that roster, Peyton Krebs is just a guy. The only players that have really taken a step in the last calendar year within that group is probably J.J. Peturka, who had a really sort of solid, productive season a year ago. So they need, I mean, they might have it on the blue line in terms of that young group, not just Dahlene and Pateau. but Mattia Samuelson, it's... Bowen Byron.

Yeah, Bowen Byram. But up front, I don't know if any of those guys can elevate the ceiling of that team. Like Jack Quinn, I think, is going to become a really, really good player. I think Zach Benson's going to become a really good player. Consta Hellenius has a chance to become a really good player. But all of those guys are just going to be really good players. There is no Tim Stutzler. There's no Rasmus Dahlin up front for that group.

And if Tage and Dylan Cousins can't elevate, and if they're just also really good players, suddenly you've got a group of maybe nine solid top nine forwards, six solid top six forwards, but there isn't that game breaker, that difference maker there to elevate the ceiling of that team. Are they on a path to becoming a playoff team? I think yes. They've got youth at multiple positions. They've got Devin Levi, Nukopek-Hulukinin as a potential tandem of the future. but beyond that, what's the ceiling up front? Is there a star player up front?

And I'm just not sure we know that right now about Buffalo. Going to Montreal, Corey, you mentioned off the top that that's a fan base that maybe isn't the happiest with you right now. And Chris kind of mentioned earlier, they've got the potential stars in Demadov and Savkowski. I think we know what they have in Suzuki and Cole Caulfield, two really good pieces. But you mentioned in the article that they still need to find a true premium blue liner or two. And I wonder how much of that comes down ultimately to where you stand on Lane Hudson and what you do or don't see or aren't ready to proclaim about him. Yeah, I think there's two big variables in Montreal. One is Lane Hudson and obviously just how good, you know, David Reimbach will be going forward.

I love him in his draft here. I don't love him so much this previous season. And then obviously it would be the how does Kirby Doc do going forward? Can he be a premium young center for them as they try to rebuild this organization or is, he kind of settled in as like a second line center type of piece. I think, you know, with a clean bill of health, that'll be the interesting thing to see what doc going forward. But focusing on Lane Hudson, I guess, you know,

I rated the player quite highly. I think he's super talented. He obviously had a great year, great two years in college. I guess I was surprised by the amount of our Montreal readers. I mean, everyone has opinions. There's always going to be different opinions. I guess I was surprised by the quantity of Montreal readers, who were either convinced or think there's a strong chance

that Lane Hudson is on the Adam Fox trajectory. That this is a guy who's going to be a 22 or 25 minute-in-night defenseman, first power play. It seems like there's a decent to strong probability of this happening. And I can understand the argument. If you look at his numbers relative to Fox at the same age in college, they line up quite similarly. Both are extremely intelligent defensemen,

with a high with a lot of skill and also, you know, similar critiques. Neither are that big. You, Fox's skating was a major issue, and I would argue Hudson's skating is even better than Foxes was at the same age, although he's several inches shorter. So I understand that analysis in some part. If he would become a top pair defenseman, that would change the analysis from Montreal a little bit.

I just have some reservations. I know Scott mentioned on this pod last week. I think he would have Hudson in that trajectory. He would project him with a top pair of defenseman. I think he mentioned when he mentioned that he would take him over. I think Pavel Minchikov, for example, that would be something I would push back on. I can buy an argument that if it goes well,

he could be better than a David Eurecheck or Kevin Kowchinsky, Simon Nemich. I thought Mitchikov, which is so good last year. I would have him rate rather highly. but that to me is the crux of the Hudson analysis is I do have some concerns on how he's going to handle the NHL defensively and I felt the same way about Fox too quite frankly and I was wrong about that but I guess for me in my mind it's more playing the odds in that you know there's quite a few players of that player type that come along every couple of years and for Fox it really worked out

but he's been kind of an outlier in that regard. There's a reason he went in the third round and the reason Lincoln Hudson went in the second round and they both should have gone way higher. I still feel the way about Hudson. I think he should have been a clear first round pick based on how he looked in college this past season, past two seasons,

but I do think there is some risk that he gets to the NHL and he just can't defend. The other one I want to hit is Detroit. And I think the big topic there is Lucas Raymond. And in the story, Corey, you say, you know, Detroit Pez, you know, two true, you don't see the true premium pieces beyond Dylan Larkin and Moritz cider. And I think here in Detroit, where I live, everyone's reaction to that is, what about Lucas Raymond? Because he finished the year on such a tear. I think it was 12 points in the

last eight games as they're pushing for a playoff spot, ton of excitement around him. Are you down on Raymond from where you were a year ago? What's kind of like keeping him out of that grouping with cider and Larkin for you? I think it's more the player type. I think he's super skilled and intelligent. Like you watch, whatever I watched Detroit games this past year, he stood out arguably as their best player at times in some games, which is just the amount of plays he can make. He's competitive. I guess for me, given that he's, you know, a little, you know, on the smaller side, he's not an amazing skater. He is a winger. I think for me, the question with Raymond is, is can he hit that 90, like 80 to 5, 90 point level where for that player type, that could become

that's kind of, you know, potential, like, star-level impact type of player, or is he more of, like, a 65-75-point guy on a consistent basis? That's my current lean is kind of what I see as is what kind of offense he's going to have. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would argue with the athletic profile, unless he is, like, lights out good offensively, or one of the best guys in the offensive zone and all the power play in the league, that that's probably not a star level impact it even straight. Scott, did you have a thought there on Raymond?

No, I sort of land in the same spot on Raymond. I think Raymond's a 70 point guy long term. I don't think we've seen, despite his play down the stretch last year, I don't think we've seen him elevate that roster, elevate that group offensively, change the look of that team, and until he shows us that he can do that and that he can get to that sort of 90, 85, 90 point plateau that Corey's hinting at, I would still also have reservations about him as the sort of second or third best player on a Stanley Cup winning team.

All right. All right. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back and hit some more of these teams. All right, we're back. And we are going to get to the very top of this list in a second here. But before we do, Scott, I want to know, are there any teams that were not in that top two or three that you really felt strongly could have been or maybe should have been higher up?

I think San Jose at four in New Jersey at five were really the two that jumped out to me. I would have those teams rated on a sort of trajectory standpoint. I would have them rated higher than in Ottawa, for example. The Devils in particular with their sort of three-headed monster that's coming after adding Anton Solive at the draft, that sort of trio of players who I believe are all premium D prospects in the league, plus the combination of Jack Hughes and what Jack Hughes looks like long term as a player as potential 100 point player in the league.

I think the ceiling is suddenly pretty high there. And I think Selyev gives them something that Nemich and Hughes don't in terms of just a little bit of a different flare from a size perspective, his ability to potentially be a shutdown guy that complements one of those two guys. You've suddenly got a really,

strong nucleus on D plus Jack Hughes, who I think is one of the best players amongst these 16 teams, if not the best player amongst these 16 teams. So I think with New Jersey, the analysis was, you know, with keeping in mind that I obviously think very highly of this group, I've wrote a lot of positive things about this New Jersey group of young players for years now. Obviously, the Hughes brothers are fantastic talents, Zelayaev, Nemich, Mercer, etc., all really good young players. And I think they have a chance to be a very competitive team for a long time. But when I'm looking at this, I'm looking at again,

who do I think has the best chance to win a Stanley Cup over the next seven, eight, 10 years? And when I look at, say, Chicago, Anaheim, St. Jose, I'm presuming over the next two, three, four years, they're still going to be at the bottom of the standings for most of those seasons. And they're going to keep accumulating premium pieces over the next couple of couple of years. With New Jersey, I presume in how they are trying to approach their competitive cycle, that they are probably done doing that. I know they got Anton Salaev this past draft, but I presume

they're probably knocking at the bottom of the league going forward. So I have to assess what they have right now because they're probably done with the talent accumulations part of the rebuild and now trying to turn the clock into actually winning right now. And assessing what the they have right now. It's a great roster. It's a lot of really good pieces, but there's some flaws in this roster too because they were trying to win the season. They weren't trying to lose. They were trying to win last season and they didn't make the playoffs. And I think there are some issues with the depth of this roster. Obviously, they missed on the Alex Holtz pick. I think there are some questions on how that Dougie Hamilton contract is going to age and whether there's going

to be even a power play one spot for that guy going forward. And if that's really going to be the best use of those assets long term. I think we'll see how they do on the goaltending front this year after acquiring Markstrom and how that bodes long term, if that's really an answer or not.

So I think that was part of the analysis there. I think Jack Hughes is great. I think Nico Hissure is obviously very good. I guess I wonder, looking at this roster is, it looks like a long-term playoff roster, even a competitive long-term playoff roster. With the guys,

they have right now, I wonder, is it, and did they get enough when they were losing to win a Stanley Cup? And if the answer is no, is it just because they had a number one overall pick and then you go heeshire draft? And they took Heeshire and they didn't get, happen to get, you know, it was just one of those drafts where the number one pick wasn't a clear number one pick and the number one pick probably should have been in McCar or Haskin. But my only thing with that, Corey, is aren't, don't they have these pieces? Like you talked about the other teams having more runway to accumulate, but aren't those teams just looking for pieces the devils already have? Like aren't the senators and the Blackhawks looking for a heeshur and the

ducks and sharks looking for a Luke and a Nemich and all this stuff? Oh, absolutely. And I think it's all, you know, a lot of those things are close to in that. Like I said, I think New Jersey is going to win way more games than those teams are over the next five, six years. I guess, you know, my question is more along the lines of, do you have the pieces to not just win a playoff round or two playoff rounds, but to actually win the Stanley Cup. And I think New Jersey could, quite frankly. Like, I think I could see things go well. And if, you know, some players rebound from how they performed last year,

I could absolutely see that happen. But I'm just trying to handicap things. And I do think you have to look at what happened to Jersey last year when, again, they were trying to win. And you see some of the issues in this roster and wonder if they are really the best positioned of the non-playoff teams to actually win a Stanley Cup in the next decade. What would you see that Ottawa has that New Jersey doesn't? Like if you're going Stutzla and Kachuk versus Hughes and Heeshire and the three Young

D versus Sanderson and Yakumchuk, like where's the differentiator there for you between Ottawa and New Jersey? It would be really close, quite frankly. Like I said, I mean, it's semantics. Like I think, like I think they're probably going to be pretty close in the state. endings this year, quite frankly. I don't know what the Vegas odds right now, but I think both of those teams are probably going to be, you know, I think somewhere in the in the five to eight range in the east this year. I think Ottawa should take major steps forward this year,

especially after adding Allmark. I know both teams try to adjust the goaltending this past off season. And I think there's a lot of similarities. So if you were wanting to argue New Jersey ahead of Ottawa, I wouldn't think it's unreasonable. If you want to tell me New Jersey is way better than Ottawa's position, I would probably push back there a little. bit. The X factor here, Chris, and I just talked about New Jersey. And the one thing that they don't have, that certainly San Jose has gone and acquired this summer. And we'll see, you know, we'll see if I follow marks a long-term solution for Ottawa. But it is, there is still a long-term question mark in goal for New Jersey. Yeah, I think it's part of what makes putting these lists

together so difficult because goaltending is such a critical position. But as we've looked at who's won Stanley Cups in the last few years, how critical is it to have a homegrown goalie and how difficult is it to actually develop a homegrown goalie? And so when we factor that in, obviously in most of these cases in terms of the rebuild rankings, we're looking at their goaltending prospect or the current guys that they have under contract. And you look, you know, Florida obviously has Sergey Bobrovsky who was on his third team by that point. You had Aiden, I mean, Aiden Hill is going to be an example for so many years now of, of, of, Do you really need the best, you know, Darcy Kemper, same thing.

You know, you look at Tampa, obviously they're the outlier with having Andre Vasilevsky as a first round draft prospect. You know, the blues had Bennington. But again, like there are things that you can't necessarily see right now in, you know, as we're looking towards the future. And so that's the thing. What happens with San Jose adding Ascarov, you know, Is that going to actually significantly increase?

There's a lot of unknown about whether or not he's going to be a long term, number one. Detroit, is Sebastian Kosa going to be that guy? You look at, you know, Minnesota who's on the list with with, with, with, Esper Walsh. I mean, those are a lot of unknowns. But the thing that makes it really difficult is when we talk about Stanley Cup contending teams, very, very few of these teams have done this like, you know, homegrown goalie that was there for a long time.

You know, you get some of those outside of the body. box guys at times like Corey Crawford who kind of comes along a homegrown guy works his way into the starting role Jonathan Quick so you know it happens it's not like we're talking it doesn't happen but I think it's very like when we talk about what these teams are going to look like odds are the goalie that's going to help lead them to the Stanley Cup is not in their system right now I think that's where it helps to have two as well like San Jose's counting now on Ascarov whereas as if it's not Sebastian Kosak, can it be Trey Augustine? If it's not Devin Levi, can it be Uco Pekeleukinen?

Give yourself two or three legitimate guys who have an opportunity to get hot at the right time rather than relying on one 19, 20, 21 year old goalie to pan out and really hit for you. Good note from our producer here. BetMGM has New Jersey with the fifth best president's trophy odds this year, plus 1100. Ottawa's way down at 18th at plus 5,000. Yep. So obviously I would disagree with that. Yeah.

All right, let's take a break right there. We'll come back and talk about the very top of the list. All right, we're back. And at the very top of your list, Corey, we said this off the top. It is Chicago at number one. They have the hardest piece to find in Connor Bedard. And kind of as you alluded in the last segment,

one real advantage they have, whether, you know, I'm actually not sure Blackhawks fans feel like they're going to be picking so high at the top of this year's draft next year. But it sounds like an asset for you is that there's a lot more expected to come through from these very early draft picks in the coming years. Yeah, I expect them to be at the bottom of the league. Again, this upcoming season, maybe not the very bottom, but among the bottom three to five or seven teams,

I presume they'll be having a very high pick this upcoming season. And probably for years after that, quite frankly, and I still think this is a very young rebuild. But when I look at the Chicago rebuild, I think they've done a really good job at acquiring talent at premium positions. They have targeted, you know, centers and defensemen at the draft with their high picks. And they've done so, you know, in a way that now that you have not just Carter-Badard

at your potential first-line center of the future, is he for sure a center that could be a potential variable there and how this rebuild goes. But for now, he is their first-line center of the future. And do you have like a clear star caliber number two center in the system? I don't know yet. But maybe one of them. You can see one of Oliver Moore or Sasha Boyver, maybe Frank Nazar or Colton Dock. I can see one of those guys hitting in a significant way.

Then you go to the blue line and it's a really exciting group. You have Artem Lef Shunov, you have Alex Vlaschik, you have Kevin Kornschinsky. You have a lot of really promising defensemen to play in Rockford this past year who I think one of them could possibly hit, be it Ethan Delmastrow, be it, Isaac Phillips, be it a Nolan Allen, maybe one other. Never mind. The fact, I know he's getting on the old. older side now, but you still have Seth Jones on this team too. Maybe he's not part of the next best Chicago team, but maybe at some point you could trade him and acquire value from the tail end

of his career. So I think they've acquired talent at the hardest positions to get talent at. I know this is a variable when they were debating between Lev Shudov or Ivan Demadov at the draft last year, is they were, is I think part of the decision came down to what's the hardest thing to get on the open market. And I know not everyone believed. Artem Leves Shunov project as a number one defenseman. I believe everyone on this podcast was very high on Lef Shunov, and I know Chicago was high on Lef Shunov, and if they believe he has a chance to be that kind of player, and I think, you know, if that happens, then you can go get the high-scoring wingers on the open market, and I think

Chicago is going to be a very desirable destination for those scoring winger when they're ready to turn the corner. One team that I think is already kind of getting to that point, and I think they could be picking really high again as Anaheim. I think we know that the need there is on defense, but when I look at the forward group that they're assembling, I don't think there's a better young core of forwards in the NHL than with the Anaheim ducks are putting together, Scott.

No, I mean, the addition of Cutter-Gotier, you've already got Leo Carlson, Mason McTavish, Beckett Seneca, like it's an impressive group. They've also got a little bit of everything. We talked to, I remember, pre-draft, about how the one thing that group was kind of missing was a right-shot winger. And so they go out and draft back at Seneca, right?

So, and that's without Trevor's egress and the mystery ball that Trevor's egress seems to be these days. So they've got the pieces of a really competitive top six, a top six that has size, a top six that has playmaking, scoring. There's a lot to like there. And then it comes back to, okay, what are Olin Zellweger and Pavl Minto-Yukov and can Tristan Luno get healthy and look like he did early on last season when he looked like he'd elevate? himself as a prospect. That's the X factor there. Is Olin Zelweger just a third-paring P-P-2 guy, or is Olinzellweger a stud?

I think we all believe that Pavl-Mintiukov has an opportunity to become a stud, but what's the future of that blue line look like beyond Pavlman-Tiukov, especially after moving Jamie Drysdale? And maybe they're a team that just goes and takes a D at next year's draft when they're picking fourth overall or fifth overall or wherever they land, and that helps solve that problem. And maybe Olin Zellweger is is a legitimate like very, very good NHL player. I think there's a potential outcome there for Olin Zellweger. And Olin was tremendous in the HL last year. But those are the question. I don't think the question marks are really up front with Anaheim.

Yeah. You know what, Scott, I agree too. I think there's a lot of intrigue on what that blue line is going to end up looking like in the end when you throw in Steyon Solberg, you throw in what they're going to do with Cam Fowler. You know, there's been rumors now that he's potentially on the trade block. What do you get out of that kind of deal as you start to turn over your roster a little bit more? And so, you know, the other guys that I think are going to be key to the development of this blue line are guys that aren't going to be super sexy in terms of, you know, they're going to be amazing point producers and things like that. But I think you've got a real true two-way guy in Jackson Lachombe, who's who continues to, to, to, Vance. And then you have guys like, you know, one of Drew Hellison, Tyson, Heinz, Noah Warren, you know, are these guys going to be part of the bottom of that, that blue line?

And so I think that they actually have a lot of options beyond the top tier of their prospect which is so talented. And that's the interesting. And the other question I have about this group, too, is what we talked about with the goaltenders? You know, is Lucas Dostal long term? Is he a guy that can be a number one goalie in the NHL? they have a number of young guys that are a little bit further away in terms of whether or not they're going to be ready to be NHL guys in the next two or three years. But I think that there's a lot of intrigue throughout this entire prospect system. Anaheim is one of those where there is an incredible top end, a really nice middle as well. I think that they have quite a bit of depth in their pool. So this is a team that I think is set up better in the near term, even better in the long term.

And then it's just going to be picking around the edges and finding those pieces that are going to fit in to what ultimately becomes what I think will be a Stanley Cup contender in the next four to five years. You know, Scott mentioned what if NIM is picking at four next year and picks it a defense minute. We are in September now as we record this and a lot's going to change between now in June. there really feels like there's only one true premium D man next year's draft in Matthew Schaefer. And I think because of that, I think that's a chance he goes as high as two next year. Yeah, like for those reasons. So I think we'll see where we are by this time next year, what the draft order looks like and how that plays out.

But everyone always needs a defenseman. And I think, I don't know if that's always the best strategy because I think, you know, we'll see what changes maybe someone like Jackson Smith or whatever emerges or someone else emerges and it becomes that premium defenseman in this year's draft. But it does feel like if you want a defenseman, it feels like it's safe for a bus for a lot of the rebuilding teams right now. Corey, Scott mentioned that, you know, kind of the Trevor Zegris factor here, and you've alluded to it, right?

I think everyone expects at some point he's going to be traded. Is it too simplistic to say, well, they'll just trade him for a demand of similar, you know, capability. It's a really tough spot for Annam because man, his value can't be lower right now. You know, obviously the injury riddled years, he couldn't have been giving less of an effort at the world championships if he tried this past spring. And it's a shame because I've seen when you've seen Trevor at his best, he's in fantastic hockey player with hockey sense and skill at off the charts. Like, as much as I'm just dragging him right now, like I could see a scenario where he scores 80 points next season and is fantastic in the NHL and puts all this issues

to rest. Remember the excitement about this player when he came in for his rookie NHL season? People couldn't get enough of Trevor Zegrois. So obviously a very frustrating player in that regard. And maybe you do trade him, but I don't know if you're going to be getting like a true premium young defenseman back for him, like a guy who you think is a, you know, a guy you could be a tough pair, legitimate defenseman. Like I don't think teams are willing to do that, right? now for him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would be surprised.

The last team I really want to hit then is on San Jose, Scott. And they're obviously a team that they could be picking first overall this year, Quady. They're probably the favorite to be picking first overall this year. But they do have like a nice collection around Macklin Celebrating already with Will Smith. They've got a little bit of depth, even behind him in their forward pool. They get Sam Dickinson. You mentioned them as a team that you felt like maybe could even be higher. What has you so excited about them? Well, I think upfront, they, I mean, we just talked about the collection that Anaheim has. I think San Jose's collection of talent is a couple of years behind,

but I think there is equal or should be close to equal excitement about that forward group and what a one, two of Macklin Celebrini and Will Smith could look like down the middle. I think there's a real opportunity that Quentin Musty figures it out as a skill guy with his size and his ability to make plays. I know he's not everybody around the hockey world's Cup of Tea, but I know San Jose is really excited about Quentin Mustie. they've got really frankly a ton coming in their prospect pool at forward and the difference maker for me for for what that pool looks like and what that organization looks like was the sam dickinson selection

i think that's that was the missing piece obviously going out and acquiring yearoslav ascrov fills a pretty glaring hole within that pool but as we mentioned the goalies are such a wild card even if you're eroslav askrov i don't think there's any guarantee that he's a star goalie in the NHL. But Dickinson, they didn't have that. Like, say what you will about Shakira MacModoulin and Luca Kagnoni and Matthias Havelin and the kids within their pool. They, like, they just didn't have anywhere close to a player of Sam Dickinson's caliber. And that they could have drafted Z. Boy, there, there were other options there as well. But even in drafting Sam, there's, there's just a potential top four stud there. If Sam Dickinson can become a 21, 22 minutes a night, transition

monster type defenseman, which I think he is capable of doing, especially if the decision making and the reeds sort of clean up over the next couple of years as his game matures, that as much as the forward group is exciting, I think they needed a player like Sam and I think he could be a difference maker for them. So suddenly they've got a little bit of everything at every position instead of just a collection of exciting forward prospects. All right. That is going to do it for us. You could read the whole article on Theathletic.com ranking NHL rebuilds, which teams are most likely to be contenders, but that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. You can catch more of Chris over at

Flohockey and on his podcast talking hockey sense. We'll talk to you soon.