The Athletic Hockey Show - Which NHL starts are for real?

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

First up on today’s show, the one and only Ian Mendes returns to talk to Max and Laz about his new role as VP of communications for the Ottawa Senators. Then, the guys turn their attention to teams off to good or bad starts this season and determine which ones are for real. And, The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger joins the show to discuss Connor Hellebuyck’s hot start, Anthony Stolarz settling in for the Leafs, and what to make of the Avs goaltending so far.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Ian Mendes and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for the athletic hockey show. And actually, you know, let's try that intro again. I think we got somebody here that might be able to do that a little bit better than me. Wow. This is it. I can actually do the welcome to the, no, it's a Tuesday.

Special Tuesday because of the holiday. We had the holiday on Monday. I didn't realize you guys celebrated Canadian Thanksgiving. Most sacred day of my calendar. Yeah. Oh, guys, this is so great to be back with you. Ian Mendez, the vice president of communications for the Ottawa senators. How does it feel to hear that out loud, Ian?

It feels weird. Absolutely. And I only, I said, I was thinking about, I haven't done any, this is the first time I've actually done a podcast or any interview since I left. So I did make a deal with myself. I said, I will join the show. if the senators and the kings combined for 15 goals on Monday, I will do the podcast on Tuesday. So that's why I'm here.

Speaking of deals, when you do sell your soul, do they keep it in a box somewhere? Yes. Is it like in the Simpsons episode where Bart sells it to Millhouse? There's like a little piece of paper that says like one human soul on it. How does that work? Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny. I went to the Quickey Mart the other day and I couldn't open the doors and wouldn't activate. Way to breathe. No breath. Way to breathe, no breath. Yes, I knew I figured if there was going to be a question about being a shill and a sellout, it was coming from Lads for sure. Look at you wanting job stability and a future for your family. Selfish.

But you know what, though, guys, honestly, like, I was really curious how, because when you make a move like this, absolutely, there's going to be people on voting. sides of the fence that are like, man, you don't belong here, right? There's people like the old school capital J journalists that are like, you're a sellout, you're a shill. Then on the hockey side, there's people like, oh, I can't believe the media guys jump of the fence. And all of a sudden, I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. Maybe nobody likes me around here. I mean, the players do it all the time. They hate us their entire careers. And then 30 seconds after they retire, they are in the quote media, like without even thinking about it. So, you know, it's okay to go the other direction every now and then screw those guys.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I figured. And it's funny because, like, if you look around in the league, like, in Montreal, the head of their PR department, Shantel McAbee, a longtime broadcaster, switched over. Vancouver Canucks, Craig McEwen was a long-time broadcaster. He's now leading the PR department. So I'm pitching to the athletic. Someone's got to write the story of the exodus of old media people. Well, we all got.

We got McMillan and Pittsburgh. John Delapina runs the entire league's communications. There you go. Rancer did it and came back. That's right. Talks about that one. That's right. Oh my God.

That's Florida. Yeah. Yeah. See, there's a story there. So let me ask you this. Have you turned down any media requests so far? Yes. As anyone, you had, I figured it didn't.

Oh, my God. Did you feel awful inside or did you feel like powerful? How did that feel? I feel so awful because now you see it from the other side. Because we've all done it, right? Did you say, I'll circle back with you on that? Is that what you said? That's a classic.

Yeah, I'll touch base with you on this. Yeah, there should be a whole book of PR cliches, right? That circle back with you would be at the top of the list. Absolutely, I've had to shoot down a couple of requests. And like, you know, you go to the player or you go to the coach or you go to the GM and you say, hey, would you want to do this? And they're like, no, I don't want to. And then you've got to go back to the reporter.

and shoot it down. So it's funny, though, to see it from the other side of the fence. But I'm, you know, where I feel really weird is that there's been a couple of press conferences where I felt like I want to ask a question. I haven't had that part of it beaten out of me yet. Like, I had to moderate. We had an arena announcement, like three or four weeks ago, kind of a good news story with the arena here.

And I'm moderating the questions. You know how the PR guy in the front is like, all right, next question. Mark Lazarus, next question, Max Boltman, right? And I'm doing that. And in my mind, I'm like, God, when is somebody going to ask, you know, there's a couple of questions in my mind. And I was like, I wanted to ask the question. So I haven't had that, like, I haven't had that beaten out of me just yet.

And the other thing that I'm finding really weird is, like, now I kind of can cheer for the team or I kind of want the team to do well. And it feels so weird, guys. It feels so weird to. oh my God, like, yes, I'm happy. We scored a goal. That part of it hasn't sunk in here. If Ottawa senators win the cup, insert laughter here, you get a ring now.

Like, that's the year, you're on the team. Jeez, and I'm more interested in, if that happens, I'm not interested in the ring. I'm interested in eating cinnamon toast crunch out of the cup. That's it. That's all. That's all I want. My daughter's butt has been in that bowl. Just remember that when you're eating out of it.

Okay. So maybe no to the cinnamon toast crunch thing. Oh, it's been washed. It's been washed. Every time I see someone eating out of that thing, I'm like, I got a picture. That's pretty gross. So when you first get there, I mean, you've had relationships with a lot of these players. There's a few new faces, but a lot of these players for years now.

What is that like those first moments where you show up and you have to explain to them, hey, I know for years, I've been the guy calling you out for all your losses, but I'm on your team now. Yeah. Absolutely. And to be honest, that's what I was more, I don't worry isn't the right word, but like, I was curious to see how that reaction would be. Like, I was, I knew, like, I got so many nice notes from media people that said, hey, good luck, we understand it, whatever.

But I was worried or curious about the player's reaction. And probably my second day, first or second day on the job, I'm walking through the hallway. And it was in August. And, you know, Brady Kachuk was in town early. And he's working out. And, you know, he sees that we're, you know, in the hallway. And he comes right out, shakes her hand. And he's like, hey, so great to have you.

guys on board. We're super pumped. And I thought, okay, that really helped. Because you know, you get the captain of the team, you're wondering, you know, how's he going to feel about this? And then it was great because then, you know, he gave me and our comm staff about, I don't know, maybe 30, 40 minutes of his time early on. I said, can we grab a coffee or we just chat? We just sat in the locker room with him. And we talked about, you know, things that he likes, things that he doesn't like, questions that he likes. How often do you like talking to the media? post-game stuff. It was really great to sort of figure it out from his perspective, what he likes, what he doesn't like,

that type of thing. So it was a great way to get the ball rolling. And then, you know, for most of the guys that they started eventually slowly rolling into camp, I never got the, you know, the double take from somebody like, hey, what are you doing here behind the curtain where the media stopped? So it's been, it's been really good that way. What about, you know, in the back office and in the front office. I mean, I know that there's been a lot of change over there, obviously, the last couple years, but you've never been one to shy away from criticizing that front office. You wrote some serious capital gay journalism that we're talking about here about that front

office. Is there any lingering bad blood between you and anybody in that, in that building that you have to kind of iron out? No, it's a great. It's a fair question and a good question, right? Because again, I was, you're never sure, right? When you write things, but I think what most people don't understand, the two of you understand this is that when you write those types of pieces, you're just trying to enforce accountability, right? Like, I've always said, like, sometimes I wish journalism wasn't called journalism. It was called like, or like we were called accountability officers or something. Like, it would just be a different, people would understand the job more. Like, I don't think people understand. They just think, ah, media's out to, you know,

clickbait and, you know, whatever, create controversy. That's not the case. Now, some of us in the media have been guilty of that, but not at its core, the type of, the type of, you know, the type of journalism that you do, I think people, hopefully they understand you're just trying to hold people accountable and you're trying to make an organization better, right? Like, that's, it's all you're trying to do. And if you just let things go off the rails, they can, they can end up, you know, off the road in a ditch. So I didn't have anybody in the office, but as you guys have talked about, there's been massive change here. It's a completely different ownership regime, hockey operations regime, coaching. Like, everything is completely

different. So there's no real lingering bad blood or bad feelings from from anybody here about stuff I've written or said in the past. What I find interesting too, you guys would have to tell me if your experience has been the same here. But some of the most critical articles I've written, I go in the next day and I think like, how's everybody going to be to me here? Sometimes the team employees are kind of like, good call them last night. And the players, I think as long as it's not personal. I think they know when they were bad way before we do and probably have a higher bar for themselves than we do even. Oh yeah. Like in fact, I've had some great conversations with, you know, Daniel Opperson's an assistant coach here now. And I've had some great conversations

with him about this exact topic. And he actually brought up the fact that he says, you know, back when he was a player, he said he would joke that it would take the media about two weeks to catch on that he was struggling. And he says, you know, people would show up. to ask him questions and in his mind he's like what took you so long like why did like so I think you're right like I think by and large athletes know when they're not performing up to standards and if you keep the questions fair and again it's about trying to hold them accountable I don't think 99% of them have a problem with it and it's it's the times where you write like a little personal big yeah you take a shot right and you guys have dealt with this like when you question

like maybe the effort or the integrity of an athlete, that's where you can go down a slippery slope. But when you just, when, and this is where I always think the athletic is better than anybody else, is when you can back it up with data, back it up with analytics, stats to say, look, this guy just isn't performing? It's hard to argue, isn't it? Like, I don't think athletes can can really push back on you when you do your research. I think most coaches would say that too. If you ask a tough question, what you're coming from a place of, man, this person did their homework.

and they're not asking you like, why aren't you generating, how come you're not generating shots, but rather you come with some sort of tangible data, it really helps. I think most athletes and coaches are okay with accountability when you've done the research and you're not making it impersonal. Well, yeah, I think, you know, when lay people think of journalism, they think of Scoops, right?

They think of Woznarowski and Schaefter and they think of jobs, the guys like that. That's not the journalism I practice in. That's not my strength. You know, I think to me, journalism is being able to write an informed story and then show up the next day in the room. Yeah. And players notice that. Players, they all say they don't read.

They almost all of them read and they know what you wrote. And when you show up the next day, if you take, you know, as long as you're not taking cheap shots, you're not just throwing bombs for the sake of throwing bombs. If you walk in that room the next day and you're there to, you know, face accountability for yourself. If they have something to say to you, you're there for them to say it. I think that goes a long way with athletes. And that's part of journalism, too, is developing that trust, developing that two-way street where, like, they can talk to you off the record just as much as you can talk to them off the record.

You can clear the air. You can hash something out. You can say, I didn't like this, but that, you know, or however you want to approach it and still have a cordial professional working relationship. And I think that's one of the things. It's interesting to me that you're going on to the PR side, because that's one of the things we've lost in recent years, is that kind of dialogue, those back-tannel communications.

Because it's much more adversarial now between what you do now and what you do. you used to do. So like when I walk into a room, a lot of times I feel like I'm swimming uphill because PR's out to get me or something or they're trying to block me or stop me. And I've been through a whole bunch of PR regimes. Some are better than others. The current one is pretty good here in Chicago. But it always feels adversarial and I don't feel like it's always been that way. How do you in your role, I mean, maybe you just want to be adversarial too. But what's your overall philosophy with dealing with assholes like me who are trying to get in there? I think, like, and it's so true, it's all based on creating connections.

And that's what I want. I want our core group of media, the five or six, seven, eight people that are kind of there every day. I want them to build relationships with the players so that when we open up the room, go shoot the breeze with Shane Pinto for five minutes off the record, build up that trust so that guess what? When there's a tough day and you've got to ask a tough question, at least he's, there's some familiarity there, right? And so I'm a big believer in the philosophy we have is, you know, we're trying to open up our room.

You know, I think we respect the sort of 10 minutes for the guys that they're off the ice. There's some guys that don't love doing media every day. So if they get off the ice first, they get changed. And if somebody wants to talk to them, we go in the back, we pull them out. But for the rest of the guys, they're there getting their skates off, pads off. It's open season. Like go, go chat with them. Go build that relationship.

because I do want to try and do something different with our PR department. Like I do want to be like, for lack of better term, I want to be known as a friendly PR department. And sometimes we're going to have to say no, but you can say no in a friendly way in a professional way, right? You don't have to have to be adversarial. And it's funny because I think a lot of people are like, oh, boy, like, how are you going to handle this and how are you going to do this? Because I do have a lot of not just relationships with media people. I have friendships. A lot of people that I consider, like, the two of you would be great examples of if you guys come to Ottawa, I want to help you out.

And maybe one day, though, you guys are going to come in and you're going to want to do a story and I'm going to try to talk to the guy and he says, no, I might not have to say no, but at least I can try and deliver that no in a friendly way. But where I can really help is I hope I can bridge that gap because there's way too much mistrust on both sides, right? like PR people hate the media and the media hate PR. I hate honestly, honestly, I hate the term the media. That's become like almost like a slur of sort. Like the media called the press. I feel like the press narrows it down to the actual journalists in the room, like the press. The media is like everybody, the local, the internal media, the broadcasters, the every.

Let's just go back to calling us the press. I like, that's a much cooler term, I think. Only if you rock a fedora. I'll do it. I'll put a little press card in the hat and the, in the band of the hat. And a big old-timey camera. I'll go full max mercy on this, man.

I'll do it. But it's, yeah, but it's true, though. Like, there has to be, like, there's such a distrust of media these days that it, like, we have to do something, right? Like, all. And I say we, like, collectively, even though I'm not in the media, sorry, not, I'm not in the press anymore. When you were just a radio guy, you were media, but then you went back to being press. That's right. But there's an obligation and a duty from us, I think, to try and, like, fix that relationship with the readers and with the listeners.

And, like, there's a trust that's been lost for whatever reason. And our role, I think, at the PR side is, like, by allowing really good storytelling, by opening up the doors to your organization and being accountable, but also allowing great storytelling, it will hopefully build up some of that trust. And so I'm super excited. So when I left, I got to tell you, the number of comments on every, and I would creep all the, you know, anytime anything was written about the senators after I left, I would just read all the comments. When are you hiring somebody?

Who's replacing Ian? Yad, yeah, yeah. I got to tell you, I'm so pumped up that, you know, Julian McKenzie has just started here a couple of weeks ago that, like, I'm a big believer. Like I felt like I worked really hard in my, you know, four plus seasons. covering the senators for the athletic, I felt like we built up something really special here.

Like we did. We built up a great readership, a loyal readership. We told serious stories. We told fun stories. We told everything in between. And so now on this side of the fence, I am personally invested in making sure that the athletic has a strong foothold here. And the only way I can, like the way I can influence that is how can I help Julian now tell some of those great stories?

How can I build relationships for him so that he can then turn around and tell those stories for the readers here? Because it's important. I know this sounds real ironic coming from the guy who jumped over the river to the dark side. But it matters. Journalism matters. We need people to hold us accountable. We need great storytelling. And so I'm excited that Julian's on board.

But I did not appreciate that on Monday he tweeted something to the effect of the senators might outscore the Dallas Cowboys, which almost happened. Which almost happened. Well, you will be happy to know this morning on Tuesday morning. He picked up an old favorite of ours, Ian. And we did the Atlantic Division Rebilled Roundtable already. I love it. So now I'll pose the question to you from the other side of the fence here.

Who's getting out of this thing first? I loved doing those stories with you and Matt Fairburn or, you know, because it was like every year it felt like, God, this has to be the, year, right? It just has to be. And the three longest droughts in the NHL of the playoffs. And these are now, these aren't just like garden variety droughts. Like these are now at eight years for like for Detroit, seven for Ottawa and was it 13 for Buffalo? Like, like these are the three of the longest droughts in the salary cap era and even beyond. Like Buffalo's is obviously at a different level. And you just want for those fan bases, you just want them to make the playoffs. You just want them to make the

playoffs because you max you know this in Detroit it's a great fan base and they put up with a lot in the last few years and and say with Buffalo and same with with the people in Ottawa and it's hard to imagine a scenario though we're all three of those teams bust the drought this year right like it's just just a numbers game like like I look at it more okay Ottawa Detroit Buffalo everyone's knocking on the door look at it like reverse engineer this and tell me who's not making the players from the east that's to me yeah

the better way of kind of looking at it. And God, of those eight spots, what do you guys think? One might be vulnerable out of the wild card. Every year someone says that's going to be the islanders and they never seem to actually drop out, right? Yeah, I mean, we're always talking about these, especially these three teams, Ottawa, Detroit and Buffalo taking that leap, but someone has to slip up for someone to leapfrog over them.

And every year, I'm always just like, I don't think this is the year yet. And it drags on and on and on. I know. And like New Jersey is a great example of, well, New Jersey missed the playoffs last year, but I think wouldn't we all agree that that's a team that's, you know, oh yeah, got one of those eight playoff spots. We scolded Chris Johnson for calling him a sleeper on our first episode of the season here. You're like the trendy pick.

You can't call him a slipper. You can't call a Stanley Cup contender a sleeper, can you? No, although I think the context that we did that went in was about point total. So maybe there, I think we had Dallas in the category. So we couldn't totally credibly. It was about like the Vegas lines and who was going to outperform the up. But nonetheless, we, We pretty thoroughly were like, no, everyone's on New Jersey this year.

Yeah, but it's going to be great because I think, and I couldn't believe that footage from Buffalo with the practice yesterday. And you just see, like, but you see it's already October, whatever we, October 15th, and you already kind of feel like it's getting a little hot for these places. Like fans are, like in Buffalo when they lost those first two games, are melting down. Even for us in Ottawa, I'll tell you, we won the opener, guys.

we were planning the parade. It was like, here we go. Everything's great. And then you lose in Montreal on a Saturday and people get worried. That Lena Solmark is out and doesn't play on Monday. And everyone's panic. And we were losing that game on Monday, two to nothing and four to two. And like, he said we, Max.

He said, we. That's right. He said, he's allowed. And he gets allowed. That was the weird part. He said, we and it's okay. I'm allowed to finally do it. We, we.

And, but like the fan base was just melting down, but I understand it. I don't ever think it's an overreaction in Ottawa, Buffalo, and Detroit. You have earned the right to act however you want to act because the drought's been that long. That's kind of the way I look at it. And if you're still emotionally invested in one of those teams, boy, it's pretty hard to tell you how to be a fan, isn't it? Like, when you've gone through a drought like that? And that's our topic today, right? Once we kick you back upstairs, we're going to be talking about, you know, what did you come up with, Max?

Conclusion or illusion? Yeah, something like that. Conclusion or delusion? You know, we're going to overreact to the first week of the season and see who should really be scared and who should not be. I like it. Well, okay, so before we get to that, I just, I'll leave you with this one. So you talked about Linus Allmark, and that was one of my first thought. He's time to the extension.

And you've been on the other side of this thing for so long when these deals come down. What was it like to be on that side of the fence for that? deal, how fast did you know and how hard was it to keep it to yourself? Oh my God. So they told now I can, they told me, so I think the deal came out on Wednesday, Tuesday night. I get a call and it's about 8 p.m. And it was a done deal. They told me you are one of five people who knows, shut your mouth. And they're like, we're telling you this so you can prep for tomorrow and create a media plan or whatever. But if this gets out, we'll be. We'll be. don't like, you know, don't let it get out.

And it was like, holy cow. I told my wife, because she doesn't know anything about hockey. And my wife's like, so wait, she's like, so I'm the sixth person to know? It's like in the West Wing and they were a slowly counting a number of people who knew Bartlett had MS. Yeah. Because I said, like, there has been a, you know, an issue in the past where information about this team, and it happens everywhere, but information gets out. And the irony is when I came in here, I said, guys, we got to stop, we got to stop the leaks here.

Like, we do. Like, let's be honest. And so the last thing I wanted was, imagine I'm one of the, you know, five or six people who chose, and then it gets leaked out. I'm going to be one of the prime suspects, right? Imagine if it's Julian who gets it. That's right.

Scoop. You know, this is where I feel bad because I feel like if Julian does get any scoop or whatever, people who automatically assume, on the prime. Yeah, if he doesn't get the scoop, they're going to assume you're a bad friend. And if he does get the scoop, you leaked it to him.

There's no winning there. And so no way. But I'm hoping that, you know, because I work for TSN, I work for SportsNet, I work for the athletic. I'm hoping that if somebody gets a scooped of like,

no, maybe it wasn't Ian because he, you know, he worked there. But it was really, honestly, it was really cool to see it from the other side and to kind of help plan out a media day

and all of that. stuff, but yeah, it's nuts now. Knowing stuff that, you know, you're sworn to secrecy, it's, yeah, it's definitely a different, a different side of the coin. All right, before we let go, I have one formal request for you. Yes. You could be a difference maker. You can be a shift maker here. This is what I need from you. We need to bring back the open post-game locker room. None of this pre-coordinated. You talk to two guys after a loss, and it's always in scrums. You talk to three guys after win, it's always in scrums. I want sitting at their stalls that I can go talk to one-on-one away from the mob after a game.

I want Ottawa to bring it back and I want it to spread throughout the league like wildfire. Oh, man. So I remember back in the day, like when I worked at Sportsnet, they literally, when Ottawa, when I first broke in, Ottawa actually used to open up their exercise room. Nice. Fans who are old enough might remember this. And you would interview guys while they were riding the stationary bike. Like you would open up the door and like there's the Dano Chara just riding the bike.

And, you know, you'd talk to him, then you'd walk over and you'd talk to, you know, Marian Hosa, and then you'd talk to Alfredson. And, yeah, boy, it's, it's fine. I don't think any team does that, though, right? Nobody, like, but, like, as recently as, like five or six years ago, every single time I walked into the Blackhawks locker room after a game, win or lose, Brent Seabrook and Duncan Keith would be sitting next to each other at their lockers, just in case someone wanted to talk to them.

And if everybody walked past them, they get up and left. And if somebody, and one of us would peel off and talk to them, they would talk. And these are the two guys who I've covered who hate talking to the press more than any other players, but they understood that's part of the job. We need to get back to open postgame locker rooms. That's my plea. That's my hope. Can I circle back to you on that?

We lost them. We lost them, Max. Classic C.R. guy. Great stuff. Ian. Thanks so much for joining us today for taking your return trip. And if you ever want to cover your tracks, just leak those. to maybe reporters in Chicago, Detroit, off top of my head. No one would ever know.

No one would ever know. Before I go, guys, I just want to say a huge thanks. Obviously, Laz, I chatted with you when I took the job. And Max, I chatted with you last week in Detroit. But I just want to take a moment just to thank everybody from the listener's side. Again, we built up, I thought something pretty cool, unique with our podcast. And I was fortunate enough to kind of be a day one guy when we launched it in 2021. and it was great.

Our producer Chris Flannery is doing this show right now. That was a tough phone call. I had a couple of tough phone calls to make when I left. And the only reason why it was tough is because how much I loved working at the athletic. I want people to know how special that place is, how great this podcast is. It breaks me up. Like when this Zoom or this video chat started, I actually had a sad feeling in my heart because I was like, this used to be me.

And I miss it. I can't tell you how much I miss it because I do. I'd be lying if I said, I've just turned the page. I loved every minute of working with you guys. I loved every minute of doing the podcast. And I appreciate you guys letting me come on here and chat. And I'm sure we'll be able to do something like this again down the road. But thanks so much for at least taking the time to remember the old guy that used to work with you.

One of the great guys in media. Now one of the great guys in Team PR. Ian, thanks so much. We'll take a quick break. All right, labs, we're back. We've put the nostalgia in the closet

and we're ready to get to hockey. I don't know if we're going to go with conclusion or delusion as you tease in the first segment here, but we're basically doing contender pretender here, basically trying to package it and a somewhat new name. But we got a week's worth of hockey samples here. We got some interesting data. We got some teams looking not at all like we thought,

the Edmonton Oilers, the Colorado Avalanche. We got some teams looking really good. I think the New Jersey, Jersey Devils, the aforementioned devils. Live it up to the hype. Let's start there. Is it real? I think, I mean, nobody's really surprised by this, right?

I mean, we all kind of thought that the devils were going to kind of, that last year was the aberration. And the year before that was the sign of things to come here. They went out and they got a goalie and Jacob Markstrom. They got Dougie Hamilton. But here's what's interesting is Jacob Markstrom's been pretty pedestrian and Dougie Hamilton has zero points in five games and Jack Hughes hasn't scored yet. And they're still four in one. Now, the wins are over Buffalo, Buffalo, Washington, and Utah.

Their losses to Toronto. So it's not the most overwhelming of schedules, but they're handling it the way a good team is supposed to handle it. If you win four out of every five, you're going to be just fine. I think the key for me, I watched their game against Utah yesterday in preparation for the segment. I actually think both of those teams are for real. Spoiler alert. But the key for me, I think, what the Devils is the goals against, right? They're giving up less than two goals a game.

And I know the schedule being what it is. But if we had a question about the devils, it was not, are they going to score? The question was, is this Jacob Markstrom thing that we all wish cast into existence for like over a year going to pay dividends? And I think it hasn't. And Jake Allen's a part of that too. I don't want to leave him out of that. I'm buying that. And I think the fact that they're even doing this without Luke Hughes is really significant.

They look legit to me. I'm still going to always have a little bit of question about can this smaller, more like kind of soft-skilled lineup? you know, rise to the level of the playoffs. But I have really no doubt that they're getting in at this point. I'm always interested to see how former Carolina Hurricanes do in new formats and new teams because there's just something about the way the hurricanes play that makes everyone look a little bit better. But then Stefan Nason comes in. He's got, he's over a point to game guy all season, but he's over a point to game through five games.

He looks really nice, a really nice fit. The kind of player the devil's needed. And he's really one of those guys that really rounds out the lineup. like what the devils have a lot. Seamus Casey, too, as a young, I mean, they've had all these, like, good young puck-moving defensemen come through to the point that on the prospect series, I think we've been trying to trade Seamus Casey for going on like two years now to get him into an environment where we thought he could play.

Turns out it takes just an injury in New Jersey for him to play, and he looks great. Like, the points are what they are. You expect a smaller offensive defenseman to produce. That's why they're in the lineup. On his goal, Monday, he makes that play on a back check. in the offensive zone and he forces a turnover that creates the play that becomes his goal. And I think that is one of those things that you see and you go, okay, this guy is not just some power play quarterback.

This is a player, whether he ends up in New Jersey long term or not, again, kind of would love to see him in a place where I think he can get P.P.1 shine. I think he's a legit player. Yeah, devil's conclusion, not delusion. Conclusion. All right. We are going with that, I suppose. Let's go to their opponent yesterday, Utah.

I tease it. I do think it's legit. I'm sure some of it is fueled by the excitement around having a new team. And I really am a believer in that kind of expansion bump a little bit that they're sort of getting, even though they're not an actual expansion team. But I like that some of these have come on the road, too. They lose to the devils. I think we can all say that's understandable.

They take a couple games off a couple of playoff teams on the road in their first week, and the Islanders and the Rangers. And yes, they need overtime. But I'm still buying those as really good wins. Yeah, I have Utah as a playoff team. At the beginning of the season, I thought last year, Arizona could have taken that jump. They kind of stumbled down the stretch. But there is so much good young talent, they have rebuilt the right way there.

And if Barrett Hayton can truly be a number one center, because down the middle is where you have the most concern with that team. He is also a great start. He's got three goals, two assists, five points and four games. You know, they're winning these shootouts. They're a fun team to watch. They beat the Islanders, five, four in overtime. To beat the Rangers, six, five in overtime. Like, they're going to give up a lot of goals.

going to score a ton of goals. Like this is going to be the most fun team in the league. They're in a cool environment there in Utah. I was lucky enough to be at the opener because they were playing the Blackhawks. And that place is, you know, the Delta Center is terrible for hockey in so many different ways. 5,000 seats can't even see one of the, one of the nets. It's just basically the Barclay Center, except it's loud and it's exciting.

And it's, it's, it's, look at the guys that are leading the way. It's Dylan Gunther. It's Logan Cooley. It's Clayton Keller. It's Barrett Hayton. It's all the guys that are supposed to be leaving the way. They have built this to the point. to the point now, and now they're at that tipping point where they're going from, you know,

climbing the hill to, you know, ascending to the peak. It's a really good team they've built there. I think we talked about it in the overrated, underrated episode was it was going to have to be from steps from these young guys from Genther from Cooley. And it absolutely has been. I mean, if Genther's going to score a goal again for the whole season, that'll help, going to go a long way. But, you know, the finding is Cooley hasn't even scored. I don't think Nick Schmaltz has even scored yet. And so, yeah, you got a couple guys who are scoring it slightly unsustainable. But those guys are producing because they're doing a lot of the work to set up these goals. That's right.

A lot of assists there. No doubt. They've got what? They've had 16 goals in their first three games. They're scoring goals. That's right. All right. Let's stick with some unbeatens here or go back to some unbeaten's.

The Winnipeg Jets are tied for the league's highest goal differential, mainly on the back of a two in the goals against column through three games, Mark. You buy them the Jets as for real. I mean, they were for real last year. So this one's not really a huge surprise here. When you have Connor Hela Buck in net, you're going to be just fine. Are they for real last year? They were pretty darn good.

You don't score over 100 points in the standings by a fluke. They had a great goalie and a pretty good team. That's a good combination. Pretty good team with a great goalie. That'll get you a whole lot of wins. That makes you a tough out. And I was in Winnipeg this past week, too. The Blackhawks actually played a really strong game against them.

And the Jets still pulled out a win. Sheifley scores like about a minute to go. and then he scores again in overtime. My concern, if there's a concern to be had there, is the backup goalie situation because you lost Laurent Presua, who had better numbers than Hellebuck did last year. So Hellebuck's going to play his 60, 65 games,

but that's still 20-something games where you need someone else to really keep that end of the bargain up. And we'll see if they have that this year because those are pretty big skates to fill. I'm a doubter here. And I was last year, and it's not about Connor Hellebuck. He is absolutely for real.

He is as good as it gets in the NHL. But I just look at the rest of the lineup. And you have Hellebuk. He's on your team. No one in Winnipeg should apologize for the fact that Connor Hellebuck is on their team and is the big reason that they are 3 and O and that they succeed seemingly every year. But I think if you just look at the rest of that lineup and you take the fact that they have Connor Hellebuk behind them away for any amount of time or if he has an average stretch,

which goalies are want to do, I don't think that. that that's a lottery lineup to me without Connor Hellebock. A lottery line. I mean, you got Shifley, you got, you got a high end. A lot of good team. And Morrissey. I'm not talking lottery top three. I'm talking like lottery, like the teams that are in the running, you know.

Yeah, but that's the thing. Through bottom 11. Okay, I said it was a pretty good lineup. Even you call it a middling lineup with Connor Hellebuck, middling lineup plus Hellebuck still equals a playoff team. Easily. To see Vlad Domestikov. You know, you got Cole Perfetti, who I think is an ascending young player,

but he's not there yet. you know, he's in your top six every night. I don't know how many playoff teams have Cole Perfetti in their top six every day. And I say that as someone who really loved Cole Perfetti in his draft year and still believes in him. I don't know that he's ready to be that in the NHL. I do think Josh Morrissey is finally getting the credit he deserves. I just don't, I don't beyond Hallibuck. And he's a real piece and he may still get them into the playoffs for that reason.

9.76 8% of right now. It's really good. But imagine if it's not that. What happens when Connor Halibok has a stretch where he's a 905 goalie, which is still league average for like five games. How many of those games do you think they're winning? Well, yeah, but he did that in March and they still made the playoffs easily last year. He had a very pedestrian march an entire month and the Jets were just fine. And how'd they do in the playoffs?

We're not talking about that. We're talking about us getting in. All right. Well, they're probably, I can buy that, I suppose. Let's go to Calgary. You got, I got a lot of doubts here about Calgary. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, they at the, they opened the season with a shootout, a typical raggedy. October. I love October hockey, by the way. Like, this is the best. You're never going to see that eight seven senators game in February. That only happens

in October. We've seen a bunch of six, five games like that so far. I love that. So that went over Vancouver. They'd be Philly and then a reeling Edmonton team. I'm glad that Jonathan Hubertoe is producing a little bit. I'd love to see him kind of like regain the form that made him such a great player for that one season.

They're playing really well at five on five. I just, I don't know how sustainable this is. It's just, that's a lineup. I look at. I don't see where this consistently produces and consistently shuts down teams. Yeah, they're probably a little more deserving of the lottery lineup line than Winnipeg is. But, you know, what I will say about Calgary is I think that there's a lot of pieces that are still kind of ascending here. And I think to have a guy like Samuel Hansik in the lineup, I don't think I would want to see him on the top line quite yet, but I guess, you know, to each

their own. And that team, I don't think he's going to hold itself to like a playoff standard to judge success right now. But I do think, you know, there's enough young players. Connor's area, he's a guy that I've probably underrated already just based on the look, based on, well, people will hear later this week when we do the redraft episodes. But I think longer term, you know, that's still how you're going to judge Calgary. And it's great if they can have a little bit of success in the short run just to, you know, put some wind in those guys' sales.

I will say it's objectively hilarious that in Alberta right now, the flames are 3 and O and the Oilers are 0 and 3. Objectively hilarious. Let's go there. Oh, and three Oilers. I'm sure we're not buying this. This is what they do now, right? This is their model to get to the Stanley Cup final is to just, you know,

trip all over themselves coming out of the gate here. Boy, they look bad. Like, I have concerns. Like, you know, I covered a lot of Stanley Cup champion teams in the old days in Chicago. And it was really hard in October and November for some of these teams to get up for this. Like when you have made it to game seven of the Stanley Cup final and lost, it's really hard to get up for an October game against the Chicago Blackhawks. And it looked like it.

They look slow. That's the thing that concerns me is like I was in Edmonton just a few days ago. They lost five two to the Blackhawks and they look bad doing it. They just don't have any jump in their step. McDavid has two assists through three games. Drysettle has one goal, no assists. I think I was looking at evolving hockey earlier this morning. Stuart Skinner and Calvin Pickard have a combined negative 8.82 goal saved above expected,

already. They've been outscored 15 to 3. This does not look like a team that is fully engaged. Now, will they become playoffs? I would assume so. There's just too much talent and too much at stake here. But I feel like the Stanley Cup hangover is more real for the team that loses than it is for the team that wins. That's interesting because I think people think about it as the team that loses is so hungry and they're so motivated. they're the ones that that would hit the ground running. But you think, what, it's the pain of that? I think it's really hard. This will sound wrong and maybe I'm using the wrong word for it.

It's hard to take an early October game seriously when you've just come so close to realizing a life dream and failed. Like, it's hard to get yourself up to, to dig the F in, right effing now, as one Connor McDavid might say. It's really challenging early in the season to kind of, I was talking to talk to Mary and about this back when the Hawks were good. And I asked him, like, it was like in a training camp. And I asked him, like, how do you get up for the next 82 games?

You've done this so many years now. You've been in the league for like 15 years at this point. Like, how do you get excited for like a random game in November in Raleigh on a Wednesday night? And he was like, you don't. You just have to power through because you're a professional. And that's what will happen with Edmonton eventually is they will get back to the normal routine and the monotony of the regular season and they'll be fine. But early on, it is really tough to get excited about playing the Chicago Blackhawks on October 12th or whatever it was when three months ago you were playing in game seven of the Stanley Cup final and lost.

That hunger's there. That's going to be there. But it'll be there in the spring. Right now it's about just kind of getting your head straight and getting through this. Same apply to Colorado then, you think? Not as much because it's been a couple years now for them. and they're dealing with so many injuries now. I mean, you know, Devon Taves joined the list here.

You don't have Landisg, Lekhinen, Nishuskin, Druin got hurt. I mean, McCar, McGinnon, Rantnan, they're doing what they're supposed to do. They're the ones producing, but the rest of the team, and good God, does Alexander Georgiev look bad. He's got like a 680 save percentage, I think it is. Yeah. You know, they give up eight goals to Vegas, six to Columbus, six to the Islanders. They get up 20 goals in three games. I would be a little more alarmed.

Like there's so much talent in Colorado that we know what they're capable of, but goaltening's always been the concern, even when they won the cup, goaltending was a concern. And right now, yeah, I don't trust that goaltending. 790 on the save percentage for Georgiev,

but you could be forgiven for thinking it was 680. I thought I saw 680. I wrote down 680. His goal is against for game is 658, maybe something around there. I don't know. Maybe my stats are wrong. He's at a negative 7.87 GSAX all by himself already.

That's a whole. It's like when you give up like four power play goals in the first game of the season, it takes like six months to get yourself back up the penalty killing charts. That's what it's like when you give up 20 goals in your first three games. Well, and the weird thing is it's happy. I think not that you can say you can forgive it against the Golden Knights. You can't give up eight goals to anybody in the NHL. No, no forgiving that.

You really can't give up six goals to the Columbus Blue Jackets. And really, you know, as much as I think the islanders always get underrated by people like us, I don't think you're not a sex goal to you. No, you lose to them like three to zero kind of thing. Yeah, no, I mean, this is this team is so top heavy right now. It's basically the big three waiting for someone to come and help them. And ask Toronto how that goes when you only have three or four guys producing. Yeah. How about the Rangers?

They're two and one now, I believe. So it's, I think at the time we wrote this, they had, they were at a split, you know, they had the loss to, you know, they had the loss to, you. Utah to O in one. So really they're fine. I don't even know why we put them in this category on the show notes. But what do you see in so far from the Rangers? I saw him last night and Igor Shosturkin certainly he's ready to go. Yeah, you're seeing what we're supposed to be seeing.

This is the best team in hockey last year. Pause on this for a second because they put up a banner for the president's trophy and it says regular season champions. How do we feel about that? It doesn't say president's trophy winners. It says regular season champions. They were not the champions of anything. I guess the division champs, but.

I'm proudly above the Gen Z cutoff. It's very important to my self-identity that I am not Gen Z, but I will say one Gen Z trait of mine is that I immediately think of the meme potential of things, and that's bad. That could get thrown in your face after a playoff series real quick. I don't know if anyone else does that. I mean, I've been in every rink, and I don't really think of it that much, but I was doing like a Google image search when I saw it.

that. And like most teams that I saw said president's trophy winners or just said president's trophy or I did never, I never saw anyone else have regular season champions. No, I wouldn't go with that. I think you got to go president's trophy there. They were the best team in the league last year. They deserve the president's trophy. They are legitimate contenders this year. They have an all world goalie. They have a lot of all world talent up front. They're doing exactly what they should be doing, other than putting up a banner that says regular season champions. All right. How about Nashville then? because they were the off-season champions. And no banner of that to my knowledge,

but I think we all were prepared to give them one after they signed Stephen Samcoe, Jonathan Marches-so, get Brady Shea in the picture here, and yet, oh, and two. Stephen Samco's, no points through two games. Total bust. It's hard. The schedule is really weird here.

I think that something might have had, Carolina's played only one game. I think what's because one of them was postponed because of the hurricane and it was going to be in Raleigh. or Tampa. But then you have teams that have played five games already. And some teams have played one. Predators have only played two.

You lose to Dallas four to three. All right, Dallas is my pick to win the cup. There's no shame in losing the Dallas. Losing three nothing to Detroit, I didn't get to see that game. What did you see out of that one? Because that one raised my eyebrows a little bit. Outshot him by a margin of like two to one, had the puck most of the night. Not that much like high, high danger.

There was a couple big moments. I thought, you know, it was more puck possession, but I thought Detroit's approach seem to be to try to keep them to the outside. It was mostly effective. Cam Talbot was good, but I thought it was more of a volume. It was kind of that Carolina format, right? A lot of volume and maybe not those like high danger, premium rush chances. The only thing I thought, and my takeaway from that game was not to write Nashville off

because I thought they had the puck most of the night, and usually that goes well for you. They did look a little old. And I don't know if that's rust, if that's just, you know, it takes some of the older guys a little longer to get going maybe. They look, and I don't think a Detroit is this like super fast team. They've got some young guys. They're a little fast,

but they were faster than Nashville. And so that was my only real thought. Usually I'm used to see in Nashville be able to hammer you on the forecheck, pound you. It didn't feel like that kind of game really from them. And that was really my one kind of hang up with them. Yeah, I need to see more from Nashville.

I can't draw any conclusions from two games. Three games, I can draw huge conclusions that are etched in stone, But two, no, that's ridiculous. All right. Well, then let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back with Jesse Granger. All right.

We are back now with Jesse Granger for the Granger Things or Dr. Grange, as Mark Lazarus would prefer, we call it. Either way, presented by Pet MGM, Jesse. Which are you going with? Which title of those do you prefer for your segment? I've seen one episode of Stranger Things, so I'll go with that. Dr. Strange. I'm not even sure if it's a show or a movie, but I have not seen it. I'm Dr. Stephen Strange.

Oh, my God. How do you live in this world and have absolutely no pop culture references whatsoever? I got kids and all I do is watch TV and movies. Come on. That's exactly it. I have no kids. So I have no reason to watch. I assume it's like a Marvel movie. It's within that universe of things. I don't watch any of that stuff. So I don't understand one Iron Man movie I think. That's the extent of my Marvel movie watching that I've done. I don't watch any of those. Wow. I have no words for that. Like I can't imagine. Imagine living in a world where you're just that clueless of the dominant pop culture items of the day. It's, yeah, I somehow manage. Laz also watches more movies than just about anybody.

I like movies. Either of us know. So that'll account for that. But today we're talking, Jesse, about some of the teams that we think have, who starts are for real and who starts are maybe a little bit of illusions. And one of the teams we were split on is the Winnipeg Jets. I feel that Connor Hellebuck is propping up the Winnipeg Jets. and that he is for real and what's in front of him not so much. Do you have a take on this?

I mean, we all agree Hellebuck is great. I think we're good there. But I know you just had a big feature on him. We're on the Jets and how much of this credit can I reasonably give to Connor Hellebuck? For the record, Jesse, my take is it doesn't matter who's in front of Connor Hellabuck because Conor Hellebuck's back there. Yeah, I think I do agree with that take, but I don't, I think we've been trying to count the Jets out for as long as I can remember. And this team does have good core players.

So I will say that just in general for me, I think the Jets are always better than I give them credit for. They have been pretty much every year. Last year, I thought they were going to miss the playoffs. I thought it was all falling apart. They had all those contracts. They just signed Connor Hellebuck. We all thought it was going to be an Exodus. And they ended up being really, really good.

I don't know if there's good as last year, but here I am again, doubting the Jets. But I do think that Hellebuck is obviously the most important piece to that team. and I think that Laurent Resois, last year, helped them get Hellebuck to the playoffs as fresh as we'd seen him. And then it was a disaster against the avalanche. And whether that's Hellebuck's fault or that was the guys in front of them, it was pretty much all of them were so terrible. It's hard to place blame on any one individual. But I'm wondering if Hellebuck can carry this team. And so far in the year he has, we're three games in, I'm worried that by the time he gets to the playoffs, he's going to be tired.

And here we go again with the narrative that Connor Hellebuck can't wait. to the playoffs. So I do think that they do need to get him a little bit more help. I think that I liked having Laurent Bresois and not having to play Connor Hellebuck every single night. I don't know what they're going to do now. I am very concerned that they're going to overplay him, but man, is he good? And like you mentioned, we just had a big piece. I did a story with Marat on Hellebuck and how consistent he is. He's not as flashy as some of the other elite goalies in the league, but he just does the small things right. And he makes it look easy. and he doesn't end up with those highlight real saves that have me tweeting about him all night

because he never is in bad positions to make those saves. He makes saves look way easier than they should, and that's why he's so consistent. We wrote about in the story, like, he's one of very few goleys to have a positive goal saved above expected for five straight years. Even Vasilevsky has a down year. Babrovsky, who's the talk of the town now, had a couple really bad years in Florida where he had really poor numbers, and that's just kind of the position. position of goaltending. You're going to have bad years of bad numbers, but not Connor Hellebuck. He's the only one. He's

somehow the only guy that plays this amount of games that is immune to the droughts. So if you're going to have a goalie that you need to lean on and you need to carry your team, he's about as consistent and reliable of a guy as you can find. Are we talking? Is Connor Helibuck's contract the best contract in the league? He's signed for seven more years at 8.5 in a Canadian market. So that's like he is really leaving a lot of money on the table. We're talking $11 million is not going to be enough for Igor Shestirkin, who frankly, I don't really, I mean, has he accomplished more than Hellebuck has in his career? Not yet. He's got a little more playoff success, I suppose. But $8.5 million in like three or four years, that is going to be the, that's going to be like when Nathan McKinnon was on like a $6 million contract being an MVP. I mean, that deal is going to age magnificently. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It was like the timing of the Jets signing that deal was perfect for that. and the worst it could possibly be for Connor Hellebuck,

because the Bobrovsky deal scared the daylights out of every GM in the league to sign goalies long term. Like for a while there, it was like, no, you can't do it. You cannot give a goalie $10 million because look at Babrovsky. And like Kerry Price, his deal is like there's been a lot more to that one, but it hasn't been the best deal either for Montreal. So I think that those two contracts happened. GMs were terrified of signing a goalie to a $10 million deal.

and like last off season, I can remember there being hesitancy to like we thought maybe somebody would trade for Hellebuck and nobody really wanted to because they didn't want to give him the deal. And it's like, but he's the best goal in the world. How do you not want to pay him that?

And now I feel like this summer, it's already like Swamen got paid, Olmark got paid. She Sturkin's going to get paid. I feel like we somehow GMs got over that and whether that has to do with Sergey Bobrovsky winning the cup, I think it does. I do.

He was the primary driving force him getting to the final. before that too. This is two years in a row where he's paid off. Right, right. But I think that those two years in a row where that contract suddenly doesn't look bad and suddenly it's like, it won you the cup. All these GMs were like, maybe it's not the worst idea to pay the best goalies in the world. And we're going to see Schisturken get whatever it is, 12 million, whatever he ends up getting. Helibuck just happened to sign it like the last offseason before GMs finally decided, okay, we're going to pay goalies again. If Connor Hellebuck signs that deal this off

season. He's getting 10 million, at least, probably more. So yes, I think it, I think his deal is a great, great value for the Jets. And his style shouldn't fade. Like I think that the style of goaltending Connor Hellebuck plays, he doesn't rely on athleticism. So I think that he's going to play well into his late 30s at a really, really high level because his, his superpower is his play reading ability. His brain processes things faster than anyone else's does. He understands what's happening in front of him. He's able to get his body into good positions so he doesn't have to make reactions. The puck just hits him.

And I don't see that going away with age. So, yeah, phenomenal contract for the Jets. I'd be surprised if, now, he might have a bad statistical couple months here because it's goaltending and we're all going to freak out and say, oh, my God, Connor Hellebuck. But I think Connor Hellbuck's going to be very good for a long time. Jesse had a great story today with Marauditas on the athletic. Connor Hellebuck is the most underappreciated goalie of his generation. Would highly encourage everybody to go read that.

But Jesse, there was a stat in here that you guys found that really popped to me. Hellebuck, one of only five goleys to post a positive gold saved above expected in each of the last five seasons. First of all, that number is way smaller than I would have guessed at only five. And obviously, Hellebuck has the biggest workload there. But there's a name in there that I think is going to surprise some people. And that is Anthony Stolars. I know this is a guy you've been big on. What do you think explain?

that stat for Stolars. And obviously, you know, with the Leafs now, it seems like a good start for him so far, too. The best way to explain that stat for Stolars is if everyone's seen the, I think it's a Geico commercial where there's a walrus in the net. It's a walrus. Ridiculous. How the hell are we supposed to score on this guy? He's a freaking walrus. Good job, Duncan. Way to go. Anthony Stolars is a gigantic human being that's pretty good at playing goalie. Like, you're not supposed to be able to be that big and be able to ice skate. and move in these ways, but he somehow does. He's a, like, really, the ceiling for him is very high.

We don't think of it that way because he hasn't been a starter. He's been a backup, and he's been stuck behind workhorses his whole career. Like, the guy has never had a chance, especially in a league that the way the NHL is going with tandums, he was stuck behind John Gibson and Anaheim, and this is back when John Gibson was the man in Anaheim and was getting all the starts. And then he goes to Florida, right when Sergei Babrof, He signs that huge deal. So he's getting 60-something starts a year.

So he just, he's never been in a spot. Now, he has had injuries throughout his career. And that's part of the reason he hasn't played more is he's, he's been banged up quite a bit. And that usually happens with bigger athletes of any sport. We see this. But he's finally getting a chance to be in a tandem in Toronto. And with like, will he be the guy? We don't know Joseph Wall is who everyone expected to be the guy.

Obviously, he's starting the year injured. But Stolars at least has a chance to prove he can be the guy. guy. The window is open and he's playing really well to start the year. He's playing behind a team that's, I think, defending really well in front of him. But yeah, I mean, he's a big guy. He puts off angles well. And I think it was Mark and I that had this conversation. Coaches and GMs will, when it's a big goalie, when he's six, seven, all he needs is like one good game. And you're like, this guy is unbelievable. He's my guy. I'm sticking with him. It's so much. Yeah, it takes, it takes very little proof. for coaches and GMs to believe in the big goalie.

Because when he's doing it, you just look at him. And you're like, how is anyone going to score on this guy? So, yeah, I like his prospects of being the guy in Toronto and he's off to a good start. All right. So I'm going to ask the question that everyone always asked, but nobody's ever asked a goalie expert. Remember, Charles Wong wanted to do this when he was the owner of the Islanders. Why don't they just teach a sumo wrestler to skate? They're great athletes.

Why don't you just teach a 450-pound man to skate and put him in goal? did you watch the Senators Kings game yesterday? I did. Matt's Sogard is probably the close. This is mean to Mad Sogard. I apologize to Matt Sogarde. He's not a sumo wrestler. He's very in shape.

But he is a huge goal. Like he makes Stolar's look small. I think he's six, nine. I forget what they have him listed at. He's, he's the tallest goalie in NHL history. Too tall.

I'm talking width. The net's only four feet high. We need width, not height. But my point is when you look at Mad Sogard, you're like, there are no holes. This guy is too big. You're never going to score.

I mean, yet he just gave up eight because he can't move as well as he needs to. That's why Stolars and like Jacob Markstrom's a good example. You have to be able to be big and move. And it's very difficult to find when you find one. They're freaks and they put up insane stats. Ben Bishop is a great example. Huge goalie always hurt. So he never had like the run and he'll never get the credit.

But when you look at just statistics, Ben Bishop is like one. of the best goalies of all time, like just the stats. So glad is 6-7-217. 2-17. If you're 6-7 and only weigh 217 pounds, you are a skinny little bean pole. I want a fat guy. Give me a fat guy in that. Come on.

It's like 30 pounds lighter than Stolars, by the way. Yeah, okay, so I guess Stolars is bigger. Robin Lennar is the, I covered Robin Leder here in Vegas. He was not 270. He's the unit. And he could move for a big guy. So I guess he's the closest example we have. But yes, the sumer wrestlers, they need to be able to move.

They're pretty good athletes. These guys, they do yoga and stuff. They're really flexible. Like, I'm telling you. There's something to it. Here's my question about Stolars, Jesse. And I don't know if I'm overblowing this. I'm looking at his hockey DB right now.

Even if I include HL games, he has not played 40 games since 2015, 16 in a season. So how much can Toronto reasonably expect him? Are we talking like a pitcher situation here where you almost got to build him up to being able to have that kind of, you know, goalie one workload. Right. I certainly would not want, if I'm the Maple Leafs right now, my plans would not be for Stolars to play 50 something, 60 something games, like no chance. And you don't need him to. Like Joseph Wall should be back eventually. He was projected as the starter. And even if Stolars is playing great, you still want Wall to be good and you want him to play a bunch of games. So I would definitely try to keep it more of a 50-50 split between those two

so that you've got them both and especially, I mean, injury history for both. Like Wall hasn't been around as long as Stolars has, but basically every time we've seen Wall, like he's dealing with injuries. So I think for both of those guys, if you can give him a 50-50 split and not put, you don't want to put the way of the world on Anthony Stolars after he's been nothing more than a backup his whole career to this point. But like I said, I like the talent. All right. Jesse, how concerned should Avalanche fans be? Georgiev is at almost minus eight goals saved above expected three games into the season. it's Panic City in Denver right now.

Yeah, it's been pretty rough. I watched his debut here in Vegas, and he gave up some goals that were like head scratchers. I have no idea how that shot got past a goalie, but he saw the shot. There was no screen. There was no tip. It just somehow he just missed it.

I don't expect him to be this bad. I expect him to regress back to being Alexander Diorgi, which is not a great elite starter, but a decent enough starter, an average level starter in the NBA. that can win games if the team in front of him plays really well. My concern for the absente is that's not good enough. This avalanche team is not as deep as they were when they won the cup. Their high-end talent is still incredible, but I think that their depth down the

forward lineup is not as good. I think they might have a little bit better depth on the blue line. They've got quite a few guys back there. But I just think that this team is going to need better than average goal-tending to do what they want to do this year. So whether that's now, Justice Anunin, I think he's a young goalie. He showed a lot last year. He hasn't had a very good start either. They've both been struggling back there. But if you think that Justice Anunin can develop and become maybe more than Georgiev has been, then I think you ride with that. But I personally am very worried about the avalanche goaltending. I would not be surprised at all if they're looking for a trade partner out there. We just mentioned the guy that Stolars backed up for a few years in Anaheim. John Gibson could, you know, use a contender to play for. The guy is rotting away in Anaheim. I don't know. We're still like, I think everybody is kind of wondering, does John Gibson still have it? We haven't seen it in a while. It was in there for a while. He was an elite goalie for there. No question he was an elite goalie. It's been a long time since we've seen that. And I think GMs are wondering if it's even in there

still. But if you have any shred of hope that John Gibson can be an elite goalie, I think you can probably get him for cheap if you're the abs, because the ducks are just trying to get rid of that contract. You might even be able to swap your Giorgiev's contract, which is an expiring deal to Anaheim. They really love what they've got in Lucas Dostall. And he's another one of the surprise goalies. He's been excellent to start the year. He's finally getting a chance to prove he can be the guy. And he is. So I think if I'm the avalanche, I give a call about John Gibson just to see how cheap that is. Because like I said, I don't think it's a guarantee that John Gibson goes in there and is amazing. But that is a possible outcome. You look at the range of outcomes. And within the range of outcomes for

John Gibson is, the dude's still really freaking good. And you put him behind Colorado Avalanche team that is very talented. And suddenly they're a legitimate cup contender. Whereas with Georgiev, I think even his ceiling, like, I think he's going to be better than he has been. But I don't know if his ceiling is high enough to get them where they want, even if he does start to play better. All right. So, Jesse, since our episode today is kind of about early season conclusions or not, is there any Vezina movement here already? Are we two, is even Vegas shy to be doing what we're doing right now with this very episode. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's so like Vegas is just waiting for people to bet on them and I don't know if the bets are changing anything. But right now, Igor Shisterkin is still the favorite to win

the Vezina. Ahead of Connor Hellebuck. Eegor is five to one. Hellebuck is six to one. So we're talking, we're splitting hairs here. But I guess it would be a little surprising Helibuck's giving up what two goals and three games. You'd think he'd be the favorite considering he's the reigning Vezna winner. But yeah, if you like Hellebuck, I guess now's the bet. If you look down the list, You've also got Swayman at 8 to 1, UC Soros at 9 to 1, and one of my favorites, Jacob Markstrom at 10 to 1 in New Jersey. I think the devil's going to win a lot of games, and he's going to be in net form. He's got that narrative edge, right?

We were talking about that at the very top. Everyone clamored for him to be there. He goes there. He's immediately really good, and they're immediately really good. Yeah. Yeah, and like you said, the narrative, it's fun. And it's like a veteran goalie we've all seen in the league for years that hasn't been on like the winning team, he hasn't had the playoff run. So I'm hoping we get to see that for the

devils. All right, good stuff, Jesse. That's going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Please leave us a rating and a review if you're enjoying the star, five stars, if you don't mind. Frankie Carado will be between two shons on Wednesday for the next edition of the show. We'll talk to you soon.