The Athletic Hockey Show - Which NHL teams have improved the most this offseason?

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Max Bultman and Sean McIndoe discuss the top 5 teams that have improved this off-season and the 5 teams that got worse after July 1st. Plus Max and Sean breakdown DGB's 10 types of NHL off-season including who had the big swing, the big tinker, keeping the band together and the awkward breakup.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Sean McIndoo for another episode of the athletic hockey show. We are here in the midsummer here now, Sean. We are low on news and high on need for content. So we're going to hit a couple of things here today. We're going to do Dom's which NHL teams have improved the most and the least. And we are going to get into your piece that I love from a couple weeks ago. Actually, just only at one week ago.

Wow, time flies in the off season. the 10 types of NHL off season. And we're going to kind of put some labels on which teams had, which kind of off season. I imagine there will be at least a little bit of dovetailing here between these two. But let's get right into it with Dom's piece. And, John, no surprise at number one, the team that improved the most this season.

It's the team that arguably had the most room to. And that's the Chicago Blackhawks. Yep. Yeah, I think this is not a shock. The Blackhawks, we should say, first of all, Dom is as with everything he does, this is based on the numbers from his model and then he adds the perspective around it so that he's not just relying on numbers. He's in some cases, he flat out disagrees with his own numbers, which I think is good.

That's how you sort of want to stress test a system. But I don't think it's a huge surprise here because Chicago had all the room in the world. they were absolutely terrible last year, and they did pretty clearly make a concerted effort to get better this year. Now, we should say that when Dom and his model say Chicago has improved the most, they are not saying Chicago is a good team now. They're not saying Chicago is the best team in the league. They're saying Chicago took the biggest step from where they were before,

whether that's going to be enough to be determined. As he points out, they added a fair number of big names and also subtracted a few guys that were not contributing and maybe were addition by subtraction. So got a lot more expensive, got a lot better, probably still nowhere near a playoff team. Not only did he talk about the addition by subtraction. He got the word flotsam into an article here. And that is a five-star hockey writer word. Absolute A-plus. That's excellent.

Do you think the Blackhawks have surpassed the bottom five territory here, though? Like to your point that this does not make them a good team, have they even cleared the bottom five bar? You know what? That's interesting because on the other show yesterday, I got asked, like, who are the bottom five teams now? And I was like, oh, that's easy. I mean, it's San Jose. And then I just kind of trailed off. And I was like, well, wait a second. Like all the teams that were bad last year, most of them are trying to get better.

Now, we may encounter some of those teams along the way, but I think they're probably out of the bottom five, but it wouldn't shock me to see them back there. It would shock me to see them in there with the sharks and that, in the very, very bottom. I think if they're going to get another high pick, it's lottery-related at this point. Now, that being said, Cotter-Badar gets hurt.

The entire team goes to hell. I think they're still there. I think they're still there. I think Anaheim's still there. I saw this up close in Detroit, and you see a team make what feel like these really big improvements because of how rough things are. And you have to kind of remember that even some of the guys that you're adding

are not necessarily big needle movers for you. Like, you know, Ilya is a fine player. I don't, you know, I don't really see him as a guy that pulls you out of the bottom five. Tyler Bertuz, he's probably their best ad. And I think that is a nice ad, Tevo Terra Vinen. but a lot of these other guys are real old. Pat Maroon, Alec Martinez, T.J. Brody. I still think they're a bottom five team.

Okay. Yeah, that's fair. I've said this many, many times that when you see a team go into full-on rebuild mode, tear it down to the studs, tanking, a lot of us would say, which certainly the Hawks fall into that category. It's always a very weird time as a fan because it's it can be agonizing, watching great players walk out the door and yet, you know, it's exciting because it feels like there's a plan for the future. That's necessary for a lot of teams. It's also the easiest thing a

GM can do. And to build back up is much tougher. And, you know, you mentioned Detroit. I'll pull out my favorite metaphor again. Sometimes when you finish tanking, there comes a point where it's time to push your foot down on the gas pedal again and see if you move forward. And some teams move forward slowly and steadily. Some teams just shoot forward and, you know, within a year or two are right back in the mix. And some teams, the wheels just spin and spin. And I mean, the Buffalo Sabres being exhibit A, B, and C of that over the last decade plus. You don't know until you try. And Chicago seems like they're sort of trying this year, even though I should point out that with most of these additions. If things go bad, you get to around the deadline, you can move on from a lot of these

guys. Yes, you can. And a lot of these guys, our team's playoff teams will want, especially on short term. I just, I've found myself, and we're going to do a lot of Detroit today, I'm sure. But over the last five, six years, I've noticed a theme where people ask me, hey, you know, how much better is this team? And I'll say, you know, not that much better this year, but they've set themselves up to be pretty good two years from now. I think I've said that like three different times. And this is kind of where I'm getting with Chicago here is that it's, I don't think they're that much better this year as much as, you know, they are probably by, I don't dispute Dom's numbers, the most improved team largely because of addition by subtraction. I don't think that they're actually going to be that much better this year, maybe a year from now. But I think that's a really scary place to be.

That year from now can just keep being a year from now for a long time. A hundred percent. Now, it's interesting. Let's use that then to segue into team number two on Dom's list because this is a team that, well, When they hit the gas, at least initially, they really did get moving. And a year from now, it was a year from now, not two or three years from now. That's the New Jersey Devils. Again, maybe not a big surprise given how disappointing last year was that there was a lot of room for improvement.

But they got a goalie, finally. Moved a lot of guys in and out. I mean, I guess Brett Pesci is the other big one. and we should point out Dom Dom likes their offseason and his model likes their off season even so he has Jacob Markstrom grading out as an average starter.

Yeah. So he's not looking for Vezna Markstrom here. Average starter, which, you know, I get, what, 16th or 17th best starter in the league? And he says, quoting him, that's a hell of an upgrade for this team.

So, hard to argue. This team looks good. Back in the playoffs, we all agree, like, is anyone going to have the guts to leave them out of a playoff playoff group? Like we just did our most recent, had to fill out our forum for our way too early predictions. What percentage do you think the devil's coming as a playoff team? I think they're probably going to be 100.

It felt so unanimous that the thing holding them back was goaltending, and they went out and got while on the, you know, wrong side of 35 or whatever, goalie, still one of the goal. I think there's probably eight to 12 of these guys in the league that you say, like, you feel really good about them as your starter, and Jacob Markstrom is still one of those guys. Yeah. Now, he will be one of those guys right up until he's not. And sometimes with gold-hitting that, the fall comes quickly. But the other thing is they've also got Jake Allen, who they didn't have for most of last year.

So he doesn't count as an addition because he had come over at the deadline. But that, man, it's the fact that they went into last season with the goaltending they had, man, it was tough. And last year, everybody knew what the goaltending was last year. And we still all pick the devils to easily make the playoffs. There were people picking the devils to win the Stanley Cup. But it just all fell apart. But I think much, much better.

And boy, I tell you, it's, it's still. tough. It's tough picking that Eastern playoff field because, okay, so you pick the devils to move in. So who's going to come out? And two weeks ago, the easy answer would have been, well, no one thinks Washington's getting back into the playoffs.

But they had a pretty good offseason and number three, according to Dom. Where are you at on these guys? Pierre-Luc de Bois obviously is the big name that I think raised a lot of eyebrows. But they got Andrew Manjupani. they've got Matt Rye, they got Jeff, sorry, Jacob Chicker. Jeff Chikin probably wouldn't have moved the needle very much.

They got Jacob Chikern. Some big names coming in Washington. Is this a case of a team going, hey, we were already pretty good and we're going to get better and we're going to cement our playoff spot? Or is this a team that trick themselves into thinking they're more than they are and are acting accordingly and they're going to regret it? Well, it's a team that I think knows the reality of its situation with Ovechkin. and they know that the only years that really matter are the next three or four for them. And that I think they know what's on the horizon. As much as, you know, Pierre-Luk Dubois is a young guy, he'll be around.

They're in the Pittsburgh zone, right? Like they are trying to make what they can out of these years. And that to me is the Matt Roy contract on Aavs is great. It's the length that's going to hurt you there, right? Pierre-Luc Dubois can be a really good player in any given season. It's just you have no idea which seasons he's going to be a really great player and which seasons are going to go disastrously and he's going to demand a trade at the end of.

So you're rolling the dice there. You're rolling the dice for a specific window. I think the Islanders are a team that can get bunched out. Washington, you know, we get there because they're the number three most improved team on Dom's list. And as a playoff team, that should get you in. I'm not sure that it will. I think they have to hold off, you know, teams like Buffalo.

And I know we've probably been talking about Buffalo and shows like this for two or three years now, but they do seem like they should be knocking right on that door. And they are kind of the young, version that can Washington keep their guys going long enough to hold off some of the teams like this. So I think I picked

Washington on the outside looking in, even though I agree with Dom that he's the number three most improved teams or they're the most improved teams. I mean, here's the thing. The two teams that I think at least in a consensus wisdom of the crowd sort of way

that seem vulnerable in the east are where Washington and the islanders, as you mentioned, if we're going to put New Jersey in the playoffs and we're going to keep Washington in the playoffs, that's it. All the eight spots are spoken for. So if you're Detroit or Buffalo or Ottawa or Pittsburgh

or one of those teams gutting for a spot or the Islanders who we've now bumped out and probably are sitting there going, hey, wait a second, that's one of that's our spot. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room until we get into the season and somebody does what New Jersey did last year and kind of unexpectedly drops out. And that will likely happen. I will say it's very funny to me, the joke that I often make, and it's not really a joke, but when you see somebody hand out a long-term deal, like the Matt Roy deal,

or acquire a long-term deal like the Pierre-Luc-Dabois deal, I often say that a GM is looking at that going, you know what? If it works, it works, and if it doesn't work, it's not going to be my problem. It's going to be the next GM. So I don't care. You know, Dave known as famously wasn't worried about year six and seven. He was worried about year one. Turns out Brian McClellan wasn't even worried about year one.

This dude went and got all these long-term contracts and was like, all right, I'm out. See later. Thanks, guys. So good for him, I guess. Number four on Dom's list was a surprise to me. I love this one. I agree with this one. I agree with it.

Here's the thing. Are we, is it possible to be the fourth most improved team? And have that kind of feel like a disappointment. Because I would have picked these guys to be number one two or three weeks ago before the action started moving. And it's Utah who had all the cap space, all the draft picks. It hit us with our first big blockbuster of the draft with Mikhail Sergachab. And then the second biggest block, second big blockbuster of the draft like a half hour later, right? Yeah, but is that enough?

Is that considering that I think a lot of us were looking at this team going, oh man, they're going to be in on everyone. And they may have been in on people. But this was a team. A lot of people were mentioning for Stephen Stamco. So a lot of people were mentoring for Mitch Marner, which now doesn't sound like it's going to happen to go on down the list. It feels like every big name was associated with this team.

Like is Sergishev and Marino enough for, the mountain that these guys have to climb? It could be because they had a couple of the most exciting young players in the NHL last season in Logan Cooley and Dylan Genther. And they're at the age where they can take very big steps very quickly. I think that's what you're banking on if you're them. I think they still lack a number one center unless Cooley takes that step this year. Right now you're probably going into this really with a prayer for Barrett Hayden.

Maybe they have more up their sleeve too. there's still a couple guys out there. I don't think Martin Naches' situation is resolved yet. But, yeah, I think it is enough to make them interesting at the very least. And maybe they were already interesting last year. But I think they are going to compete for a playoffs, but I don't know if they can actually get it done. But I think when you look at the blue line and you see Sergachev, Marino, you know, Valamaki is not a bad player there on the second pair.

Dersey was a pretty solid power play quarterback. You know, the third pair is what it is. It's nothing special, but it's NHF. caliber. It's probably a mid 80s to low 90s point team. And in some years, that'll make you interesting through mid to late March. And in some years, it won't. But in the West, I think it could. So I really like their offseason. And I especially like it because knowing what they have on the way with some of the guys that they've picked in the last two years, Simashev, boot, McGinla. I think they're very well set up. It's just a matter of if it's going to hit this year or if it's going to hit next year.

The other team in the top 10 that I think we need to mention, San Jose's number five, no great surprise there. That's much like Chicago, just a very, very bad team that had a lot of room for improvement and added a few guys, Tyler DeFoli, most notably. Number six, a team that maybe people were expecting us to talk about earlier, but haven't come up yet. Nashville Predators. They get Stamco's, they get Marcia. So, they get Brady Shea. They move up to Sanchez. Sixth best off season.

I don't know. If I'm a Preders fan, I'm going, wait a second. Did we have a worse off season than the San Jose Sharks? Well, it's funny because he kind of makes, Dom kind of makes the point where he says the one thing standing their way is a backup goalie swap that looks like a four-goal downgrade. And once you read that, you're like, oh, okay, well, I'm not worried about the backup goalie swap here, A, because you have a great starting goal in UC Saros, and B, because your backup goalie probably isn't actually the backup goalie that you're talking about.

talking about in this swap. It very well could be Yaroslav Ascarov in this whole thing, and that could prove to be an upgrade. So if I'm Nashville, I'm not worried about this at all. I mean, six is not a bad spot anyway. But if that's the thing that's holding them back is a four-gold downgrade at backup goalie, then that does not have me pressed about, you know, mis-evaluating the off-season. Now, this does have the potential, as you alluded, that like this in three years or so is going to look like a much worse off-season than it seems like today, of course. When you look at the ages of the guys that are their difference makers, but I think what they're going to get, first and foremost, is two pissed off really good

players in Stamcoast and Marcheseau, who are offended that their teams let them walk with everything that they had done for them. And I think that they're going to have the kinds of years that we've seen Ryan O'Reilly have, and Gustav Nyquist, had a quietly excellent year in Nashville, too. It seems like a place that players are able to go and produce and be kind of maybe liberated from whatever was holding them, not holding them back, but whatever was, you know, on their minds in the background. So I think this was going to be a good situation for both of those two guys until, as you said with Markstrom, one day it's not. Yeah. We won't do the whole list. Let's, I do want to ask you about the team you cover though. Detroit Red Wings, 23rd, a negative net rating.

In other words, a team that according to the model got a little bit worse. And I, man, I feel like for three years now, I've been having this, I don't even know if conversation is the right word argument, discussion with Red Wing fans about Steve Eisenman plan and the level of patience and the level of slow mature with an emphasis on the slow. And now we're looking at, first of, I guess do you agree that this team is, I guess we'll be charitable. and say treading water? And is that enough? Like at some point for a team that has not made the playoffs, don't they have to get better? Don't they need a bigger swing somewhere? Or is it all part of a plant? I do agree. I think that I wrote a column to this on Monday and had a lot of people did not like it. They felt it was too early. But I think even after adding Vladimir Tarasenko, I agree with Dom that it's, I said stagnant

at best. I do think there's potential to get a little worse. I think there was potential to get a little worse, even if they upgraded the roster, when you look at some of the underlying impacts they had last year, some of the shooting percentage stuff, uncommonly good injury luck outside of a disastrous stretch when Dylan Larkin was hurt, but you could have a lot more guys hurt and probably progression to the means as they will not be so lucky with injuries this year. I thought there was already potential for that. Also, an uncommonly low playoff bar last year. We talk about them being a tiebreaker short of the playoffs, but the playoff bar is probably going up four to five points this year. So you might kind of take a relative step back even if that goes up.

So that part I agree with. I agree with Dom on that. The question is, is it enough? And that to me is a tougher one because it just kind of is, right? Like, is it fast enough? I don't know, but it's not going to get Steve Eiserman fired. They're not going to, that the fan base is certainly losing patience here.

I can tell you that from all of my comment sections day in and day out. But it is more a matter of like, when is this going to happen? And I think it's mostly, honestly, directed at winner some of these young guys going to get into the lineup. And that is not what's going to get you to the playoffs faster, right? That is, there is a whole timeline of letting those guys be rookies and make their own mistakes. So I told you, you know, a little bit ago, it seemed for years now like, okay, in a year, they'll be competing for the playoffs kind of thing. And this year, they were competing for the playoffs.

We have to grant that that they were a tiebreaker out of it. And at many times this year, they looked like they would get in. it actually took quite the collapse to not get in. But I think this year will be a step back. And I think that the frustration for that is really going to heat up at that point, which is one reason I wrote the column. I'm kind of trying to tell people, hey, this is probably where this is headed. But it's a tricky situation because they could go splurge.

I think that they, I even kind of alluded that they tried on one of these big guys might guess on that. And it is a guess. but it would be Stamco. There's so much history there. But I think that, you know, Casper, Mazur, there are kind of two prospects who I would think you'd see at some point this year? Edvinson will be up full-time. Danielson, I think, is probably a year away,

but he's been really good over the last year. And these are the guys that are going to decide how long this actually takes. And it's kind of a matter of when they can get there and how long it takes them to get up to speed. They've been in the gathering phase for so long that it's easy to forget that what they do have in the system. But part of that's because they haven't put it in the NHL. And I think they've been slower than almost every other team to put some of that stuff in the NHL.

The wings are the first team in the bottom 10. The rest of it, a lot of this is just good teams that we would expect. Just like you expect bad teams to have the easiest time improving, good teams have the most to lose. But I do find it interesting. The next three are Rangers Flames Bruin. So you've got a team in the flames that seems to be rebuilding smack dab between. two so-called contenders. I feel like Rangers and Bruins are going to be fans

are going to be disappointed to see that. And then the other ones that jump out at me, the last two spots, 32, dead last, Winnipeg Jets. That's not good, given where this team is at, both on the ice and off the ice. That's not what you want to see. And then the other one is the next to last team, the Vegas Golden Knights

again they moved out a bunch of guys as they often do in the offseason but boy that one to me feels like a horror movie where you're like oh the bad guy's dead cool we can all celebrate and then you're just waiting for the big

did you see him die did you actually see him die so let's put a pin in that one because I don't feel like the Golden Knights are done but is there man is there anything the Jets having the worst off season by a decent margin, essentially adding nothing. And given, boy, just given we know the off-ice situation, trying to sell tickets,

how quickly they went out of the playoffs last year, I hate seeing this. I got a special place in my heart for the Winnipeg Jets. And this, it's not good. No, it is not good. And it already took a Herkulean effort from Connor Hallibuck, last year to get them to where they were. And as much as I don't think Connor Hellibook's going anywhere, that level is a different level. And it is not going to be easy to replicate.

There is absolutely a world where they take a big step back. I think what you're hoping is that the lack of additions clear space for guys like Cole Perfetti, who is a high pick who has not really gotten a major chance to play a prime role yet. You can debate if he was going to be that guy, would he have not forced his way in by now? but I think that's what you're hoping for if you're a Jets fan. The team that stood out to me in this bottom five is Carolina because they are a team that I struggled with when I was picking my eight playoff field

and they're an auto pick for me at this point. But I did have to give it a double take when you think about some of the guys that they have lost and I put them in on the assumption that they keep NACIS. But if they don't keep NACIS, do you have to wonder, are they, is this, have they gone from Metro spot secured to like wild card threat at all.

Boy. I'll be honest. They were an auto click for me when I was putting that together. You're making a decent case. I said like I alluded to. Shea Pesci all out the door. Those are three really good players. Yeah.

And like I alluded to earlier, there's always a team, almost always a team that we're not expecting. We don't see it coming. And a lot of times it's like the Devils last year. Everybody picked the devils to make the playoffs. Absolutely everybody. Everybody, a lot of us had them winning to East,

and then the season happens and everyone goes, oh, yeah, of course. Look, the goaltending. We all saw that coming. And it's like, no, you didn't. We have the evidence. And then maybe Carolina's there. I think they'll still get in because they just have so much identity as a team

that you kind of feel like whoever they bring in there. And the cushion in the, especially in the metro. is pretty. Remember, you just need top three in the metro. You know, we always talk about, you know, there's four teams established in the Atlantic. There's those three teams, Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit fighting. Hey, Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit could all pass Carolina and still not take their playoff spot because of the way the format works. So I still feel pretty good about them, but you've planted a seed of doubt.

If you look on paper, New Jersey is better than Carolina on paper. Yeah. But that may not translate to the ice. Healthy Douggy Hamilton, which is... You trade pesci from one to the other. You switch him. Mm-hmm. Better goal tending.

I don't know. We'll see. Let's take a break right there. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about the 10 types of NHL off seasons and which teams fit them each. All right, we are back. And, Sean, you had an article last week. I loved.

It was the 10 types of NHL off season. You really hit a... Some note in my brain, it just really rung out because you're going to through these and you're immediately placing them to teams of these different archetypes of what kind of off-season every team has. Highly encourage everybody to go read it. I'm not going to go through all 10 here because we do want to keep this relatively tight. And I want people to go read your story. But I want to match a few of these to the teams because it was really fun for me to do while reading. The first one's the big swing. I don't think this one's any secret, right? It's the guy who's

the cover of the article. It's Stephen Stamcoast. It's Nashville, right? Yeah, I think Nashville had the biggest, biggest offseason just in terms of headlines, in terms of, you know, kind of catching people's eyes. Not the biggest, as we just discussed in terms of improvement, apparently. But I think some of their fans would argue that. And definitely, yeah, I mean, how many times on draft weekend we're going, damn, Nashville, all right. Big few days for them. So, yeah, I think they're the big swing.

There may be some other teams that would lay claim to that, but I don't think anyone can touch Nashville as far as just pure, you know, pure being interesting in the offseason, let's just say. The next one is called the big tinker. And it's kind of the cousin, I guess, of the big swing. You call it the wimpy little sibling. This one, you say they make lots of moves, none of which would really qualify as major.

I guess my first thought when I was reading it, and the more I think about, this, I don't know, but Tampa kind of did do this tinker and they, their moves are major. They let Stephen Samco's go. They trade for Jake Gensel's signing rights, trade Mikhail Sergachev, bring back Ryan McDonough. I find that it leaves them, though, in kind of the same place. And I think that's part of what the big tinker is, is that you, you look like you've done a lot, but aren't you still kind of the same team?

So that was a team that came to mind for me, but do you have a better one here? Well, I mean, I think this is one that a lot of fans might see their own team in, and I'm no different. I think the Maple Leafs could be the big tinker here, especially given how they went into the offseason. Okay, this time we're finally going to do some big changes. We're finally, you know, boy, eight years was fine, but nine years would be too many. And then it's like, oh, yeah, we got rid of a few veteran defensemen and brought in a few other ones and it's a little bit better. And look, as I say in the piece, sometimes this is the right move. I think last summer's Florida Panthers, you could argue, were a big tinker.

Evan Rodriguez, OAL, Dmitra Kulikov, guys like that coming in short-term deals. It worked, put together a championship. But this is, the big tinker is the team where you get the GM saying we like our group a lot. Yeah. And very often the fans are going, we don't like the group. Get them out of here. Do something bigger. but you can't because it's the NHL and it's hard to make trades.

If the big tinker is going to work, you've got to be starting from a pretty good place here. Sorry, sorry St. Louis fans. You don't get to claim the big tinker here if you're not a playoff team. All right. The next one is keeping the band together. There's a few teams that I think we could talk about this one for, but anybody jump out? The key here is you've got to already be a good team. Yes.

There is a new category later in the list. for the teams that are not so good. That, you know, this is the team. And there's, you know, where you're kind of sitting there going, no news is good news. And I, I mean, I guess that the Panthers would be the team that jumps out of me just because, you know, they did keep Sam Ryanar. Now they lost a few guys.

The Rangers are probably, yeah, the best team that did the least. But they were interesting because they sort of called their shot that they were going to do more. It felt like and then and then didn't. We know that Jacob Drewba's situation got in the way of that and that's fair. You know, Dallas, I guess Colorado would be maybe the other team you look at and say they didn't. No news is good news. How about the relative of this one for the bad teams, which is the summer off? The tagline is you did know there was an off season, right?

the dreaded summer off where you're they just don't do anything and i guess the the cousin of that um a little higher up is the the at least you tried which is the team that doesn't do much at least you tried is the team that doesn't do much but they're at least rumored to be in on on a lot of teams a lot of that's detroit i think that's detroit yeah and i think the summer off i would argue probably buffalo where just didn't really do anything major at all. So let's take them in order. Detroit,

at least you tried. We heard maybe in on Stamcoast. We heard maybe in on some big names. We heard in on player we don't know. We think we would guess that Stamcoast. They were in on somebody, one of the top names. Yeah.

Which is kind of the ultimate, at least you tried. It is, right? And I guess the one thing that maybe isn't very Detroit-like in this is that very often the at least you try team is very transparently working the media. You know, you see a lot of insiders suddenly posting that, you know, this, boy, they were right in on this guy or they are just, just missed on this. Whereas that doesn't really seem to be Steve Eiserman's style. But.

But they were in reports. They were in the reports on Trubo, but they were in the reports on Stamco's, right? Like there were, there was enough around there that I think they qualified. I'm surprised you think Buffalo completely sat it out. You didn't like the McLeod deal? I mean, nobody, nobody ever completely sits out in offseason. But the Sabres, you know, certainly weren't active on, on adding any big names. And yeah, then they explain this deal to me.

Because to me, I see a bad team that misses the playoffs trading a top prospect for a bottom six. death piece. Yeah. And a top prospect that's not 22 or 23, but is two years removed from his draft year, which typically would be too early, unless they really have seen something that they don't like, which is, I think, certainly possible.

You seem like you're okay on this deal. I am. Sell me on it and sell beleaguered, sad Sabres fans. I really like Matt Savoy as a prospect. I liked him in his draft year. I think that the hype train on him has probably overshot the realistic, like, projection on him. But what it comes down to for me is that they had a bunch of guys just like that.

And while that's a nice kind of player to have, NHL teams are not made up of, you know, seven different scoring wingers under six foot kind of thing. So I think that Buffalo basically, they Buffalo had six televisions and they traded one of their televisions for a dresser. And a dresser is a much more practical thing. And everybody's got to have one and they didn't have one. And they had six TVs and they really only probably need two or three, but they had six.

So it's not like they're going to be short on this. It's not like they've cost themselves the runway. And they've gotten themselves a much more practical piece that they are going to use every day rather than this guy that they were going to have to try to find where do we put this other TV? Do we need it in the kitchen? Do we need it in the bathroom? You had six of them. I love that metaphor. I, okay, but I'm going to take issue.

First of all, as an NFL fan, don't, don't act like you can't figure out a way to use six TV. Okay, fair enough. I would absolutely be okay with that. I would still argue, I mean, I think maybe they traded a $500 TV for a $200 dresser, which maybe still works if you need the dresser, but I don't know, it doesn't feel like a great deal. But it may not prove to be. And I think the toughest thing for them is that they traded. the TV to the place.

We'll stop with the metaphor. They traded Savoy to a place where he's the most likely to realize the offensive potential because he's going to be around at least one, if not two, of the best 10 hockey players in the NHL for the bulk of his young career now. A couple of big screen TVs there. Absolutely. They got the full sound systems that are going to be hooked up to him, maximizing what he's doing here.

and if he becomes like a 30 goal score next to one of them, that's going to really hurt for sure. But I don't know that he could have been that in Buffalo behind. Like I don't see him passing Jack Quinn or J.J. Paturka or Zach Benson, who was his linemate in junior, who I think had surpassed him by the end. And if he was going to be on your third line anyway,

it was a third line scoring winger who I think competes really hard. I don't think this is just like a one dimensional kind of guy here. But it was a small third line scoring winger. And if you can parlay that into a big, fast third line center you need that more they didn't have that guy and for where they are you talked about kind of gms having to make decisions based on what they're going to be here for who knows how long kevin adams has to turn this thing into a winner he needed this thing today he didn't have anywhere to put his clothes okay we're married to this metaphor yep i guess you could just stack

them on top of another tv or you can trade the tv for address it i i guess um but again like if if If he's in that mode of, I don't know how much longer I have, I would have liked to have seen much more from this off season. But two things, two notes on Ryan McLeod, we should point out, first of all, he's 24. So it's not like the one got a 33-year-old. They got a guy who could be a piece of this for the long term. And far more important, Ryan McLeod, your new nickname is the dresser.

Just is. That's it. I'm sorry, I know you're probably McLeoddy or something like that, but you're the dresser now. It's done. Motion carry. All right, fair enough.

Okay, a couple more of these I want to hit that are really good. The awkward breakup. I think we got multiple candidates here. I threw out Tampa for the big tinker. I guess maybe this is, they're a pretty good candidate here too. Yeah.

The Tampa and Vegas are the pretty, pretty clear teams of guys that, uh, or guys that were big stars associated with the team franchise players. that are gone in Stamco's and March. And like I say in this, the key piece of the awkward breakup is it feels like something has ended.

We expect guys to move. We expect trades to be made and free agents to leave and that sort of thing. But it feels like the end of an era when this happens. John Tavares leaving the Islanders would be another one. There's, you see it.

A few times, most seasons. And it doesn't mean that it's over as far as the team's not a contender anymore. You could argue Tampa got better. And we're, you know, as we said, we're waiting on see what Vegas does. Maybe by the end of the summer, they're in that zone. But it's still, it's going to be so weird, man. Being ruthless is the new thing, the new thing in the, in the NHL. Both of those two guys, Tampa and Vegas, March, Stone, Stamcoast, are guys that I thought,

we're going to be the perfect candidate for, yeah, we're going to talk about this guy all the way up to June 29, and then as we're all getting to the airport from the draft, we're going to get a notification that they've agreed to terms, right?

That's kind of how it was with, Hvgeny Malkin. That's how it was with Stamco's, you know, eight years ago. That's right. It was exactly the script that played out. And,

and I mean, I remember, I don't remember who I was sitting next to, but down on the draft floor, when the Sergachev trade happened, I went, oh, there's the Stampcoast money. And, you know, a few other people were like, yep, there it is. Well, we spent all, all you're wondering where they were going to be able to get Stamco's,

there's his money, happy ending. And then, you know, there were a couple people going, I'm not so sure about that. And they turned out to be right. So, yeah, it's, hey, you know what, the NHL is more fun when big players get to free agency and switch. Yes. Maybe not for the fan base that's losing the franchise guy, but for everybody else. So, you know, maybe this is, this new, the ruthless era maybe is going to be a, going to be going to be more fun.

Really quick on this. If you're Ryan McDonough and you finally get your wish and get traded back to Tampa only to see your captain, Stephen Stamcoast go to Nashville, what do you think the emotions are like there? That's tough. Hey, it's, it's, it's tougher, especially since you know that like, that was, I mean, you got some of his money. I mean, between that, the other one that got me was headman signing the extension. like the next day. Essentially the same contract that that reportedly may have been on on the table for Stamco's and that Stamco's got in Nashville.

You're sort of going, man, that's a tough one. Those two guys have been through it all together. But life moves on. I mean, you got to do what's best for yourself, I guess. Nobody's cried for the lightning, but I think people will have some sympathy for those individuals. One last one I want to get. And I think this is maybe the one that I think fans will find most painful to be lumped into.

The retool that should be a rebuild. And we see many examples of this one, I think every single year of teams talking themselves into thinking, oh, let's just try something a little different here. We don't have to go full rebuild here. Who should have been a rebuild that tried to do that this year? You know, it's interesting. When I wrote this, the team I kind of had in the back of my mind was the flames. they've been a bit more aggressive in stripping it down than maybe I thought. And unfortunately, they're in that situation that you hate to be in as a team where they're kind of sitting there going, how do we, even if we want it to do a rebuild, how do we do it?

Who's taking Jonathan Hubertow's contract off our hands? Who's taking Nazim Cadre's contract off our hands? And if the answer is nobody is, then we're kind of stuck with those. guys can you even do a rebuild with players like that on the on the roster so uh i think calgary has done a little bit more in that regard than i thought um and it's it's tough because like i say in this very often what's happening when you see a situation like this is either the gm doesn't have the job security to really strip it down um knowing that he's you know i'm going to go and get a bunch of picks and prospects that some other guy's going to going to get to use

or it's an owner who is standing in the way saying, no, we got to make the playoffs. We need those, we need that playoff revenue. We need this or that. I was worried that that latter was the case in Calgary. Again, they've done a little bit more than I thought. The other team that really jumps out here, even though you understand it, is the Penguins, who feel like they are just chasing that dead cat bounce for a non-playoff team.

But you get it. It's Sidney Crosby. I mean, much like we said with Washington, it's sort of all about Ovechkin over the next few years. It's the same deal in Pittsburgh. So I will give them an exemption on that, even though I think pretty clearly 10 years from now, they will probably wish they had been more aggressive. They may even wish right now that, hey, you know what? We all love Sidney Crosby.

He's a penguin for life, but maybe Malkin and Latang were a mistake two years ago. Too late for that now. You've picked your spot and got to. got to dig your way out. I got two submissions here. I'm not sure either is perfect. Philly didn't do anything, but they're a team that I wish

would lead a little bit harder into the rebuild. And St. Louis, who like, they may have too much mid-20s talent to actually rebuild properly, but they look like a team with a real defined ceiling to me right now. And keeping Pavel Bouchenevich is great.

But I, you know, Matthew Joseph ad's fine. I just, I don't know. I kind of would rather see them moving pieces out than bringing guys in at this point. Yeah, and and keeping, keeping what they do have. And yeah, you sort of wonder, where's the, where's the path to something more than

eighth place and get, get knocked down the first round? Tough to say. Yeah, I think those are, those are a couple of decent nominations. The Flyers are tough, right? Because the Flyers, we all thought were doing a tear down rebuild last year. And unfortunately, for them, John Tortuella squeezed far more out of that roster than we thought. and the end result was still missed the playoffs and got a higher pick than they were liked. But yeah, maybe you go a little bit more aggressive there.

But what do you do? Right? Like, I mean, how do you, you know, your Danny Breyer, you call up John Tortorella and go, I'm trading all your dependable, death defensemen that you love so much. It's a tough conversation to have. It is. All right. That is the 10 types of NHL offseason.

I highly recommend everybody go read that one on the athletic. We're going to take one more quick break. We'll be right back. All right, Sean, we're just about done here. But before we let everybody go and get on with their summers, something happened in the NBA this week that I would love to get your read on. Yeah. Because I know you're very passionate about the boldness of NHL general managers.

I love this, man. In fact, can I just... Yes. Let me just dive into it. Let me just read the trade to you, okay? Anybody I know a lot of... This is an NHL podcast, Probably a lot of people weren't NBA fans at all, maybe haven't heard about it.

I'm just going to read to you the trade that went down earlier a few days ago in the NBA. Okay, here we go. Dallas receives Clay Thompson, who you probably heard of. Star. And a 2025 second round pick. Minnesota receives 2013 second round pick swaps. Keep that in mind, 2025 second round pick and cash. you go, okay, that's an interesting trade job.

Well, I'm not done yet. Golden State receives Kyle Anderson and Buddy Hiled, Heald. Heald, yeah. Recent, like, you know, high first-round pick. Okay, there you go. So there you go. Now you're going, oh, wow, three team trade. No, I'm not done yet.

The Denver Nuggets received cash. Thanks for coming out, Denver. Charlotte. Yeah, we're still going. Receives Josh Green. Reggie Jackson 1970s Major League Baseball

All-Star That's pretty cool A 29 second round pick And a 2030 second round pick And Philadelphia receives a

2013 one second round pick If you lost track Somewhere in there That was six teams This was a six team trade That involved

Five players Six draft picks Cash going to a couple of teams, including, by the way, some of those draft picks stretching seven years into the future. And also, if you're not an NBA fan,

you should know that the NBA draft is only two rounds long. The second round of the NBA draft is the equivalent of like, what, rounds five, six, and seven of the NHL draft? For sure. You are not expecting to get a player in the second round. This is like trading for a 2013-seventh round pick.

So I don't know. I lost track. many assets got moved at 13 or 14. Six team trade. Meanwhile, in the NHL, we are constantly told by these GMs that their jobs are so complicated. It's so hard to make trades. And I can't trade my third line winger. I mean, it's only been four months of the season.

I can't put this together, man. It's just so complicated. And look, I was making fun of this on Twitter. And I had a couple people come back to me. They're like, well, the NHL has a hard cap. Did you know that? Yeah, I did. The NBA's salary cap is 10 times more complicated than the NHL's game.

The NHL salary cap is baby's first salary cap. It is so, there are very few loopholes. There's very few, I mean, you know, there's that stuff. It's very minimal. The NBA is far more complicated. So I will just say, again, to make the point that I've made over and over again, when you constantly see trades like this in the NBA and then you hear NHL guys talk about how complicated their jobs are. One of two things is happening.

There's only two options here. And I'll leave it to you to decide which of it is. Either NHLGMs are lying and telling us their jobs are complicated when they're not. Or NBA GMs are just way, way, way smarter than NHL GMs. It's one of the two. I'll leave it to an exercise to the reader slash listener to figure out which one it is. but a six team trade. Would it be so much to ask for them to publicize how much cash these teams got for being

involved in this? Yeah, they should. And you can't trade cash in the NHL, but this is the equivalent, like in the NBA, this is the equivalent of like salary retention, right? So this is the teams jumping into broker and this and that. So it's pretty comparable there. Yeah, I'd love to know what the cash. I just, the one that cracks me up is the 2013.

second round big swap. Like, who was it on this? How do you even do a six team treat? Is there like a group chat? Is it a Zoom call? I don't know what that looks like. But who is it that's like, no, guys, I'm not signing off on this until seven years from now. I have the potential to move up five spots in a round that never produces any good players.

All I hope is that the team that that was their motivation and all this, I hope that they move back. And I hope that the pick, the, the, the, the pick that. they gave up becomes the rare second round pick to actually be like a Draymond Green type or whatever in the NBA. Because I need this trade to get referenced in like 2035 is what I need. I need this whole graphic brought up during like an Eastern Conference final or something like that. Yeah, exactly.

How acquired. And it's like, do you guys remember Clay Thompson? The famed buddy healed. Yeah. Yeah, the big deal. So again, enjoy listening to your GM when you're like, hey, man, we need a backup goalie. just throw his hands up and go like, what do you want me to do, man?

It's crazy how hard my job is. And meanwhile, the NBA are just like, there was a trade in the NBA a couple years ago, wasn't it? Where like some team found out like at midnight, their team like posted on or their star like post on Instagram like I don't want to be here anymore. And like he was traded by lunch the next day in a four team,

like massive trade. These guys don't mess around. I, if I have a GM opening, Edmonton Oilers, listen to me, man. Just hire somebody from the NBA. If they're this much smarter, they'll be able to figure out the hockey thing a lot quicker

than hockey people can figure out the whole doing things. I think hockey would desperately like to not be that reactive to the whims of their players. And if anything, that's probably what it is. They don't want to give the players that much leverage that an Instagram post gets you traded,

right? And I know, look, every time I talk about how much fun NBA transactions are, somebody comes in and they're, ah, you know, it's because the players run the whole league and all of this. I'm just saying. Maybe you like a league where, you know, teams don't trade very much, make very small trades.

That's fine. But just let's accept the explanation we're being given or not. Yeah, there is a, I would encourage people to go look at what an NBA eighth man makes and compare it to our Lord and Savior, Connor McDavid, sometimes. It is not a fun exercise. We'll leave things there. Great show, Sean. Thank you all for listening in the depths of summer.

Our next show is going to be Monday with Ian Mendez and Jesse Granger. Gentilly and DGB will be back Wednesday, July 17th. Talk to you then.